food-storage-msg - 12/29/08
Storing and preserving food in period. Non-refrigerated food for camping and Pennsic.
NOTE: See also the files: canning-msg, drying-foods-msg, pickled-foods-msg, potted-foods-msg, Preservng-CMA-art, Wst-Nt-Wnt-Nt-rev, Balled-Mustrd-art, meat-smoked-msg, pickled-meats-msg, stockfish-msg.
************************************************************************
NOTICE -
This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.
This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org
I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.
The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.
Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).
Thank you,
Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous
Stefan at florilegium.org
************************************************************************
From: jab2 at stl.stc.co.uk (Jennifer Ann Bray)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Periodicity of Recipes
Date: 29 Mar 94 14:34:19
Organization: STC Technology Ltd., London Road, Harlow, UK.
>That's one reason I asked a while back about seasonality of fruits and
>veggies. I didn't get much of a response. I also have questions about
>preservation methods, storage, length of "usability," etc.--the answers
>to all of which would certainly add some realistic fuel to arts and
>sciences competitions. (Giggle--maybe even to some feasts.)
I didn't see your original query, so here's a belated response.
I'm not an expert on period fruit and veg, but I can tell you how my
grandparents generation stored their fruit & veg (my garden isn't big
enough to grow much, or it would be how I store them aswell)
Hard fruits (apples and pears) will keep until the next years crop
comes around, just store them in a cool dark place. One bad apple/pear
will rapidly infect it's neaighbours so we wrap them in paper then
store in boxes. the traditional method is to store in barrels.
Apples also dry quite well & keep forever & a day once dried, though
I'm told they slowly lose flavour if you keep them for years.
soft fruits (blackberries, raspberries, strawberries, elderberries,
plums) can be turned into jam or booze, but otherwise tend to go off
the moment you take your eye off them.
root vegetables will keep all year in clamps. You basically dig them
up then bury them in a mound of earth. Sounds daft, but they keep
better than if you just leave them below ground. During the second
world war when domestic food production was stepped up in Britain
clamps were recommended for storing all sorts of root veg: parsnips,
carrots, turnips, spuds you name it.
Despite this they are probably best eaten late autumn early winter.
Sprouts cabbages etc. I don't know any way of storing raw, but cabbage
pickles quite well.
Onions should be dug up, then they are joined into pairs by twisting
the dried leaves together and the pairs are wrapped around a piece of
string to make a string of onions (note this is different from storing
garlic where the leaves are plaited together, I don't know why you
should do it differently for onions, but you do). Onions will keep all
year if hung in a cool dark place that's reasonably dry (probably the
same shed you put the apples & pears in).
And of course you can pickle the onions, (that's more common than
pickled cabbage in England)
All sorts of herbs will dry successfully, but some like sage and thyme
are evergreen, so why bother drying. O.K. so they're meant to be less
tasty in the winter, but I never noticed much difference, and my herb
plants don't seem to have suffered from year round pruning.
peas keep forever if dried, though they're only good for mushy peas or
pea soup afterwards.
If there's any particular veg. you have in mind that you want to know
the season or storage method for ask me, I might know, or I might be
able to find out.
I think freeaers have taken some of the variety out of our diet. When
I was a child our diet definately varied by season. Most people seem
to eat much the same all year round now.
I imagine that in the past seasonal variations were even more marked:
just because you could preserve a crop doesn't mean you would preserve
the whole lot. It's a lot less effort to eat it when its fresh & it
usually tastes better then aswell.
The thing that amazed me is that hens eggs used to be seasonal, I'm so
used to them being readily available all year round I was amazed when
someone told me they used to only be available some of the year.
When I say "keeps forever" I'm thinking of instances where I've known
fruit & veg years old being used without ill effects, your mileage may
vary, don't blame me if you give yourself food poisening!
Jennifer/Rannveik
Vanaheim vikings
From: Phyllis_Gilmore at rand.org (Phyllis Gilmore)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Periodicity of Recipes
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 94 12:10:17 GMT
Organization: RAND
In Article <JAB2.94Mar29143419 at bhars243.stl.stc.co.uk>, jab2 at stl.stc.co.uk
(Jennifer Ann Bray) wrote:
>Hard fruits (apples and pears) will keep until the next years crop
>comes around, just store them in a cool dark place.
One of the biggest problems I have is finding a cool, dark place--no
cellar! At a (sadly OOP but well prerefrigeration) chateau called Vaux
le Vicomte, southeast of Paris, they do show how fruit was stored.
One room in the cellar is full of racks and shelves for storing nothing
but fruit. The individual fruits were not allowed to touch each other,
but were quite open to the air.
[lots of excellent stuff deleted.]
>I think freeaers have taken some of the variety out of our diet. When
>I was a child our diet definately varied by season. Most people seem
>to eat much the same all year round now.
Amen!
>I imagine that in the past seasonal variations were even more marked:
>just because you could preserve a crop doesn't mean you would preserve
>the whole lot. It's a lot less effort to eat it when its fresh & it
>usually tastes better then aswell.
True--it would be the surplus that would be preserved, primarily for
winter, when little to no fresh stuff would be around. Nowadays, we
not only eat what we want when we want it, we don't want it to take
longer than 10 minutes to cook!
>Disclaimer:
>When I say "keeps forever" I'm thinking of instances where I've known
>fruit & veg years old being used without ill effects, your mileage may
>vary, don't blame me if you give yourself food poisening!
That brings up something else I've been curious about. Most of the "food
safety" stuff I've read seems more concerned with aesthetics than real
safety ("if you don't eat this in 3 months, it will taste like cardboard,
but you won't die). Does anyone know some more useful guidelines, the
sort that might be used in period? For example, an apple you wouldn't eat
out of hand might be trimmed and used in applesauce instead of thrown
away. (And fermenting grape juice has other uses . . . giggle.)
>Jennifer/Rannveik
Thanks, Rannveik, for your many useful words.
Philippa
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: gary at sci34hub.sci.com (Gary Heston)
Subject: Re: Periodicity of Recipes
Organization: SCI Systems, Inc., Huntsville, Al.
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 1994 04:09:16 GMT
In article <Phyllis_Gilmore.1115330657A at nntp.rand.org> Phyllis_Gilmore at rand.org (Phyllis Gilmore) writes:
>In Article <JAB2.94Mar29143419 at bhars243.stl.stc.co.uk>, jab2 at stl.stc.co.uk
>(Jennifer Ann Bray) wrote:
>>I imagine that in the past seasonal variations were even more marked:
>>just because you could preserve a crop doesn't mean you would preserve
>>the whole lot. It's a lot less effort to eat it when its fresh & it
>>usually tastes better then aswell.
>True--it would be the surplus that would be preserved, primarily for
>winter, when little to no fresh stuff would be around. Nowadays, we
>not only eat what we want when we want it, we don't want it to take
>longer than 10 minutes to cook!
Permit me to differ, please.
I will agree with Rannveik that one would not preserve the entire
crop; however, I must disagree with Phillipa that "the surplus would
be preserved".
In earlier times, one would go to great lengths to ensure that enough
food was put by to last the winter--starving during the winter is a
harsh fate. As such, the purpose of a crop would be twofold--to provide
enough to eat until the next crop is ready for harvest, as well as enough
to eat during the winter. A farmer would be in a difficult situation
indeed if they had a poor harvest; that would mean they'd have a
difficult time to the next crop, and would be without that food for
the winter, preservation methods aside.
Further, in the case of row-crop type foods (i.e., not things that grew
on bushes and trees; wheat, parsnips, carrots, peppers, etc.) there is
the need to reserve seed for planting next years' crop. Eating next years'
seed would be a last-resort on-the-verge-of-starvation measure, as it
would guarantee hard times the following year.
Surplus? Nay, M'Ladies, that was sold or traded at the market....
>Thanks, Rannveik, for your many useful words.
Hear, hear!
--
Gary Heston SCI Systems, Inc. gary at sci.com site admin
From: cl at garnet.msen.com (Carol Lynn)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Periodicity of Recipes
Date: 30 Mar 1994 06:52:53 GMT
Organization: Msen, Inc. -- Ann Arbor, MI (account info: +1 313 998-4562)
: I'm not an expert on period fruit and veg, but I can tell you how my
: grandparents generation stored their fruit & veg (my garden isn't big
: enough to grow much, or it would be how I store them aswell)
Bits snipped
I'll second that, and add that my grandfather was an Italian peasant who
grew a fairly large city garden in Detroit (yes, within the city limits).
I am always angered that some 'experts' say that greens would have
disappeared from the diet inthe winter. In Detroit's climate, which is
more severe, I believe, than that found in most of Europe, we ate fresh
lettuce until late February March every year when I was growing up.
Grandpa Gasloli used to heavily (up to 2 feet) mulch the lettuce beds with
fallen leaves every year. During the winter then, he'd go out, brush off
the snow, dig thru the leaves and bring inthe lettuce. He always grew
fairly hard leaf varieties - bib, romaine, etc, not head or boston. By
the end of December, the lettuce was very tough and bitter, but it was
green still and edible (although as I grew into my teens, I started
experimenting with it in cooked greens dishes not raw in salads. Grandpa
always ate it with oil & vinegar dressing.
The book "food in England" also has quite a section on preserving and
whenthings were in season. You might try there.
Gwynnyd Salads at 12th night are too period!
Carol Lynn
Expotech at aol.com or cl at mail.msen.com
From: maccer at mt.net (Johnathon McAlister)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: salting, etc.
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 1995 14:39:54 -0600
Organization: Home
In article <199501142232.RAA08291 at math.bu.edu>, jeffs at math.bu.EDU (Jeff
Suzuki) wrote:
> Let it be said that in this case, it is not the toxic qualities of the
> substances. Rather, it's osmosis.
This explains the preserving qualities of salt, and might explain those of
sugar as well (but I'm not so sure that osmosis applies for molds), but I
know for a fact that spices are an entirely different matter. Also, even
small quantities of salt can preserve food, so it may be even more
complicated than it looks!
Black pepper and nutmeg are powerful preservatives - the oils contain
strong antibacterial agents. Peppermint and wintergreen can also probably
prevent spoilage - I know for a fact that I wouldn't want to try eating
pure methyl salicylate (the flavoring for wintergreen), and I had a bad
experience with amyl acetate (banana flavoring) while we studied organic
esthers. I thought "how strong could a banana be?" and took a strong wiff
- my eyes started burning and my nose and throat were on fire for a
moment. I'll bet that stuff could kill most anything living!
And, even if the food is a little ripe, the spices can help cover it up.
As for salt, at Montana State University I came across a home econ book
that dealt with bread - methods of baking, ingredients, types of yeast,
etc... It turns out that bread made with no salt goes bad in just a
couple days. But, add even a tiny bit of salt, the bread can be kept
twice as long. With even a little more salt, bread can be kept up to two
weeks! Of course, there are other preservatives in this day and age that
don't affect flavor and quality, but salt will do in a pinch :-)
More preservatives are vinegar and alcohol. Vinegar's acetic acid does
wonders (ever see mold in a barrel of pickels? Now think of how long
unrefrigerated cucumbers would last). While the acid environment probably
plays a big part, osmosis may also be a silent partner (concentration of
acetic acid). Alcohol has well known toxic properties, which is why rum
balls last forever (along with the high sugar content).
Finally, along the lines of "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em", we get
fermented foods - wine, cheese, bean curd, etc... While juices spoil
easily, and it's tough to add anything that won't destroy the flavor,
controlled spoilage with yeast creates wine. It's lower sugar content,
high alcohol content (compared to juice), and sometimes high tannin
content (aged in oak barrels) all keep it from spoiling. While milk is
easily spoiled, hard cheese is remarkably durable.
A couple of caveats when preserving anything with alcohol - it cooks off
easily, and it oxidizes into vinegar. Thus, whiskey cake probably won't
gain much from the whiskey (other than flavor), as the ethanol cooks off.
And, if alcohol is exposed to air, it slowly turns into vinegar. This is
what happens when a cork fails on a wine bottle and the wine goes bad -
you get wine vinegar.
> The need for preservation of food is responsible for most of the great
> cuisines in the world...
>
> Jeffs
Hear, hear! It's also responsible for much of the world's exploration.
Columbus was really looking for an easier way to get to the Spice Islands,
as the land route was long, arduous, and expensive in taxes. Thus, the
spices found in Central America were called "pepper", even though they are
nothing like black pepper.
--
Johnathon McAlister
maccer at MT.net - preferred, as it's flat rate
johnm10248 at aol.com - backup, as it's paid hourly
From: jtn at cse.uconn.EDU (J. Terry Nutter)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Disgusting foods
Date: 3 Apr 1995 14:47:46 -0400
Organization: The Internet
Greetings, all, from Angharad ver' Rhuawn.
On the general thread of the use of sauces to disguise the taste of rot in
meat, Horace writes,
> Actually aging meat was common to tenderize it. Consider
> pheasant was hung by it's tail feathers until it fell, they it was cooked
> and eaten. Course it can be stringy and may need to 'age'.
> Based on what was said in MaGee about sauces, the French may well
> have used stronger flavored sauced to help with unpredictable quality of
> food (pg 333).
>
> But what seems to be really at the base of things is the
> definintion of Sauce. The heavy early very spiced sauces may well have
> been used more like condimints and used sparingly. Consider that Gravies,
> and some stews were once lumped in with sauces, part of our confusion may
> be in the definition of the word sauce, and gravy.
<Sigh>
Folks, we don't have to guess about this. There's all kinds of evidence.
Okay, three modern observations, and then some facts about what the primary
sources from the time have to say on the subjects of rotten meat and
sauces.
Modern observation # 1:
Variable quality is different from variable freshness. We know, for
instance, that major advances in agriculture and breeding resulted in a
tremendous improvement in the overall quality of British beef in (I
believe) the 17th (but it may be 18th) C -- which is certainly not the
same as saying that no beef before that was _fresh_. I don't know the
source Horace refers to; but in general, to say that sauces masked the
variable quality of ingredients is _not_ to say that they were used to
hide rot. (Note: I understand that Horace does not say that it is; only
one might reasonably infer that from what he does say, and it would be
wrong.)
Modern observation #2:
Unless someone screws up, aged meat is not rotten. Aging must be done
carefully, or the meat _will_ rot. But the difference is clear, and you
can tell when it has happened. People on this list have been writing as
if aging were some strange and exotic practice that Americans at home
never encounter. Every fine restaurant I have ever been to (not to
mention many just-sort-of-decent ones) ages its steaks. (Again, this
has less to do with what Horace actually said than with what one might
infer.)
Modern observation #3:
Some people have suggested that the sauces are intended to _preserve_ the
meat, and pointed out, for instance, that black pepper in fact has
preservative qualities.
Well, yes, in the sense that if you take fresh meat, and cure it with lots of
pepper, that can help prevent spoilage. But if you take already spoiled meat,
cook it, pour a pepper sauce over it, and serve it, what you get is spoiled
meat with pepper on it. Many, many recipes end by saying to pour the sauce
over the meat and serve it forth. Whatever is going on here, it isn't
preservation.
Now: what does the contemporary evidence say?
CONCERNING ROTTEN MEAT:
(1) There is a recipe, I believe in one of the collections in _Curye on
Inglysch_ (I am posting from work, and my sources are at home; if anyone
is curious, post or email, and I will look it up) describing what to do
with a joint of venison that has just begun to show signs of going bad
in spots. It starts by cutting away the bad spots and a fair amount of
the good around them. It then goes on very elaborately, with a procedure
that includes slow cooking _for three days_. I am not a microbiologist
(or for that matter a culinary hygienist); and I am modern enough to want
to just throw the thing out and do without venison. But my firm
impression, from reading the recipe and thinking about it, was that even
by modern standards, this ought to just about turn the trick.
It involves a lot of time and effort. One would not go to all that trouble
if one thought that it were okay just to add more sauce. The clear
presumption is that eating bad meat is a bad idea.
(2) More recipes than I could count say things like "Take fair flesh of
the forequarters and ribs", or "take fresh brawn". The clear implication
is that one is to use good meat (and that fresh is good).
(3) If you look at household accounts for upper class households, you will
find that they go through a _staggering_ number of animals. On the whole,
the delay between slaughter and consumption of four-legged domestic animals
does not seem typically to have been long enough to lead to rot.
(It is true that some beef and pork is salted, even in upper class
households; but market and household records suggest that the extent to
which herds were culled in the fall, leading to all meat in winter and
spring being preserved, is typically exaggerated, at least for the classes
for which we have evidence that sauces were frequently used.)
(4) Chickens and unsalted fish were normally killed immediately before
cooking. (The recipes frequently specify that; in the case of fish, they
often detail _how_ to kill it, and that varies depending both on the
fish and on the recipe.)
(5) The Menagier actually discusses the case in which chickens might be
killed beforehand, and talks about how long they can be kept, either in
an airless environment in winter or on ice in summer. By modern standards,
he is if anything conservative.
CONCERNING SAUCES:
(1) They _won't_ cover the taste. I know, in the simplest way possible.
I've been doing experimental medieval cookery for about a decade. In that
time, I have twice accidentally used a piece of meat that looked okay, but
had in fact started to go over (once beef, once pork). Both were prepared
with sauce. In both cases, it took one bite to tell me the meat was bad.
It might be conjectured that I am making the sauces blander than they were
made in period. Three points tell against that. First, I am using relatively
fresh spices. There's a medieval health book somewhere that says that spices
are more suited to the delicate constitutions of refined persons than herbs
are, because they are more delicately flavored. Think that through, and
consider what it says about the condition of the spices they were using, and
how strong recipes made with them are likely to be. Second, and independently,
even assuming that their spices were fresher than ours, household accounts
do not support the hypothesis of extravagant use. Third, the reason I could
tell that the meat was spoiled was not that the sauce was delicate, but that
spoiled meat has a _very_ distinctive and pervasive taste, that is hard to
cover.
(2) Medievals in fact had elaborate theories of medicine that governed the
design of sauces for particular meats; you can look them up and read them.
For a single example: Magninus Mediolanensis wrote both an extensive health
tract with a chapter on sauces (the title of which for the moment escapes
me) and the _Opusculum de saporibus_, a work entirely dedicated to sauces.
He describes in detail the characteristics of the meats, poultry, and fish
that make them wholesome (in terms of the theory of the humors) and how
sauces are to be used to correct the main item to the appropriate levels of
warmth and moistness (not in the modern sense, but in the sense of the
humors). His sauces in fact adhere to the rules he gives; and they match
the sauces in the English and French repertories quite closely, including
the question of what meats to prepare how (read Magninus and _understand_
the theory medievals gave for why they didn't roast beef; to understand
the reality, consider that they are cooking free range oxen), and what
sauces to serve them with.
This has three consequences. First, it helps measure the balance of modern
against period sauces, as he is particular about the balance of ingredients
(often to the level of giving mathematical proportions). His proportions
do not result in sauces capable of covering the taste of rot, even using
fresh modern spices.
Second, it tells us what they thought they were doing. We may grant, from
the git-go, that what people _are_ doing, and what they _think_ they are
doing, may be two quite different things. But it is hard to imagine that
they might think they were balancing the humors, when in fact they were
trying to cover a nasty taste.
Third, it makes it screamingly clear that the medievals were aware of health
hazards of improperly chosen ingredients (their reasoning may have been
different from ours, but that much matches), and that they understood that
fresh is good.
IN SUMMARY:
Especially in the 19th C, when evolutionary theories with teleological
overtones were in vogue, and everyone tended to think that the world was
going from worse to better, it was widely believed that medievals used
spices to cover the taste of rotten food. The view was widespread enough,
and pervasive enough, that one still finds it even in respectable historical
sources that have not done their culinary homework. (Culinary history
remains something of a select niche; most historians know next to nothing
about it.) The fact is, that not only does the record _not_ support the
view, it directly contradicts it, over and over and over and over and over
again, and dozens of different ways. No respectably _culinary_ historian
would give the hypothesis the time of day; we _know_ that it is false.
Conjecture and extrapolation from modern experience are sometimes all
we have; and when they are all you got, you go with what you got. But
when we have more, they must take back seat. In this case, we have more.
Cheers,
-- Angharad/Terry
From: z009341b at bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us (Victoria Gilliam)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Thanx for Pennsic food storage help
Date: 4 Aug 1995 19:47:26 GMT
Organization: SEFLIN Free-Net - Broward
I just had to post to my friends here on the Rialto.
I live in South Florida, and recently, when Erin was supposed to be
hitting us, we had a dozen and a half eggs in the fridge, and my mother
wanted to boil them _all_ in preperation for the Hurricane. I told her
about a trick I read right here on the Rialto--Dunk the raw eggs in
boiling water for 2-3 seconds, protecting them from cracks and allowing
you to keep them for about 1 week unrefridgerated.
We did this to about half the eggs (the other half were hard-cooked).
Thankfully, Erin missed us completely. I've used some of the 'Dipped'
eggs, and found that they seem no different than raw when used, except
for the skin of cooked egg on the inside of the shell.
THANK YOU ALL for the Pennsic food prep information!!! It works well for
hurricane preparation too!
In service to the Dream,
Ellsbeth Lachlanina MacLabhruinn
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Vycke' Gilliam z009341b at bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us
From: jtn at newsserver.uconn.edu (Terry Nutter)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: pennsic cost estimates
Date: 27 Aug 1995 02:59:57 GMT
Organization: University of Connecticut
Greetings, all, from Angharad ver' Rhuawn.
Cariadoc writes:
: selectivity of Hal's response. The only reference to the use of ice for
: cooling things in period I have come across is from Mughal India.
The following is a very qualified disagreement.
I quote from the Janet Hinson translation of the _Menagier_ that His Grace
sells in Volume 2 of his cookbook collection (page M16, lower right, below
the notation 150): "HERBED CHICKEN. -- VEAL WITH HERBS. In winter, killed
chickens, dampened and then placed six days in the ice...."
Which sounds worse for His Grace's case than it is.
The French reads "et puis mis .vi. jours a la gelee". I would be inclined
to translate this as "put six days to the frost", not "in the ice". The
verb "geler" can mean freeze; but if I were looking for a noun that meant
"ice", I would rather tend to expect "glace". At least in modern French,
"la gele'e" means frost, as opposed to ice (and "a` la gele'e" means
gellied; but in this context, that does not make sense). Together with the
restriction to winter, I rather suspect this passage actually means, put
it somewhere protected where the temperature is (in the natural course of
things) freezing cold.
However, distinguishing winter from summer treatments, especially in terms
of how long it allows that the chicken can be kept, does strongly suggest
an awareness that cold preserves.
Ice houses are common not much after period, and require no special
technology. I have not looked into it, but would not be surprised to
find a trade in ice within our period in cities, and private ice house
in the country. If you had it, as a normal thing, you wouldn't necessarily
see references to it in the culinary corpus. Certainly there are culinary
references to chilling foods, in places where setting them out at room
temperature _won't_ work, with no reference to how this is to be accomplished.
Cheers,
-- Angharad/Terry
From: jeffs at bu.edu (Jeff Suzuki)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Non-perishable Pennsic Food
Date: 27 Aug 1996 00:02:54 GMT
Organization: Boston University
AISLYNN647 (aislynn647 at aol.com) wrote:
: >Why not dehydrate foods?
: a super idea, providing one has;
: 1. the proper equipment to do so
A dehydrator will run you between $30 to Ohmygod. If you're going to
get one, make sure it has a fan. You could also use an oven set on
low with the door open, but a dehydrator will be easier on your
utility bill. (I think my dehydrator has, at this point, more than
paid for itself)
From: HAROLD.FELD at hq.doe.GOV
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Doing Pennsic without ice
Date: 1 Sep 1995 11:57:33 -0400
Organization: The Internet
Greetings from Yaakov:
Glen Arthur posts some excellent advice on doing Pennsic without ice.
A few additional comments.
1) Clarified butter, or ghee, will keep in Pennsic heat. I did this
for my first Pennsic. Subsequently, I discovered I liked olice oil
*much* better, so I stoped.
2) I have had good success pickling meats and bird in brine. The
downside is that, after about a week and a half to two weeks, the
texture starts to go 'mushy.' (In chicken, the bones become soft and
can be eaten without difficulty, in fact quite by accident.) Grilling
helps to 're-harden' such meat. I have taken hard salami every year
and it has never gone bad.
3) Kumis is an excellent way to preserve milk. :-)
4) Sekanjibin syrup is fairly compact and will not spoil. Makes
Pennsic water drinkable.
5) I find that the big storage problem is bugs, not heat. Is there a
period solution that works as well as mason jars or the big blue
plastic thing we've got?
Yaakov (I keep trying to convince my wife to forget the cooler, but
she grew up believeing that any food exposed to air is a health risk.
The entire modern attitude seems to be summed up as 'nature will kill
you.')
From: ddfr at best.com (David Friedman)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Doing Pennsic without ice
Date: 1 Sep 1995 16:34:20 GMT
Organization: Best Internet Communications
> Greetings from Yaakov:
>
> Glen Arthur posts some excellent advice on doing Pennsic without ice.
> A few additional comments.
I missed the first post on this thread, so some of this may be duplicating
things already said:
"The lords salt" (in the Miscellany) is a period recipe for pickling meat;
we have used it repeatedly at Pennsic. The only problem is that the meat
is sour and spiced, which one deals with, if one wants to, partly by
washing it before use and partly by using it in dishes that are supposed
to have vinegar in them and leaving out the vinegar.
Fava beans and lentils are period and keep (dried) without refrigeration.
Eggs keep a fair while without refrigeration.
The Coopers' store does not sell much in the way of vegetables--but
lettuce, which they do sell, can be (and was) used in period recipes as a
cooked vegetable.
In addition to Sekanjabin, there are lots more Islamic syrup drinks (in
Manuscrito Anonimo, which is 13th c. Andalusian).
Pasta is period and, dried, keeps. Pennsic before last (we didn't go to
the most recent Pennsic) I made lots of dried losenges the week before,
brought them, and used them the evening we fed the whole encampment (with
cheese, which also keeps pretty well).
And of course there are lots of period nibbles--hais, hulwa, gingerbread,
....--that keep fine.
David/Cariadoc
--
ddfr at best.com
From: ddfr at best.com (David Friedman)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Keeping meat (was: one "pot" meal)
Date: 4 Sep 1996 05:54:12 GMT
Organization: Best Internet Communications
> A few questions:
> 1) Does it matter if the eggs or cheese were previously refrigerated?
We've always purchased ours from an ordinary supermarket, which keeps them
refrigerated before we buy them.
> 2) cheese in wax. I often get cheese wedges that are partially covered
> in wax. What about the area that is not? Does it need to be resealed in
> wax after a chunk is cut off? If so, how?
What we have used are the miniature cheeses--balls about 5" across
entirely covered with wax.
> 3) soft cheese in oil. This sounds interesting. Can I just buy a soft
> cheese and immerse it in oil?
I bought a jar containing lots of balls of a soft white cheese in olive
oil at a middle eastern grocery before this Pennsic, and it kept fine at
Pennsic. I haven't experimented with producing it myself.
> 4) I would think even with some of these methods that you would still
> want to keep the food in a cool place. How would you handle this out
> in the heat of the Serengetti?
Shade. And the Serengetti wasn't all that hot this year.
David/Cariadoc
--
ddfr at best.com
From: Aoife <liontamr at postoffice.ptd.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Keeping meat (was: one "pot" meal)
Date: 4 Sep 1996 20:22:54 GMT
Organization: ProLog - PenTeleData, Inc.
Gracious gentles,
ddfr at best.com (David Friedman) wrote (in response to several questions):
>> A few questions:
>>
>> 1) Does it matter if the eggs or cheese were previously refrigerated?
>
>We've always purchased ours from an ordinary supermarket, which keeps them
>refrigerated before we buy them.
Aoife: Eggs can be dipped in wax for longer life, and kept in a cool,
cradled place. In England into this century it was possible to purchase a
commercial egg-dip product which helped preserve the eggs without
refrigeration. Cheese, on the other hand, will ripen at an alarming rate
if left out in the heat for too long, even if coated in wax. FYI, cheese
that has been softened by the heat and re-hardened may sweat or get
rubbery, but this is a natural part of cheesemaking. The sweat is whey,
some of which is still left in the cheese. The nutritive value of the
cheese is still there. You can still eat it, but it will taste stronger.
The cheese won't spoil due to the salt to milk ratio used to make it.
>> 2) cheese in wax. I often get cheese wedges that are partially covered
>> in wax. What about the area that is not? Does it need to be resealed in
>> wax after a chunk is cut off? If so, how?
>
>What we have used are the miniature cheeses--balls about 5" across
>entirely covered with wax.
Aoife: Cheese wax is a commercial product which is a combination of soft
waxes and other wax-like products. It can be purchased from a company
called "Cumberland General Store", (who sells its catalog on news stands
with $-off coupons inside)if you don't want to bring a whole wheel of
cheese to Pennsic. On the other hand, beeswax works quite well, and is
far, far cheaper when purchased from apniaries (bee enthusiasts, did I
spell that on right?). Parafin just crumbles, and my experiemnts with
cheesemaking make parafin unsuitable, even though it's edible.Note that
I didn't say digestible. You can coat purchased cheese wedges (cut
wedges, that is, with wax on the rind) with beeswax or cheese wax, even
if it has already been through that at the manufacturer. Just remove the
original wax first. You can do the same with home-made cheeses. Wrap the
cheese in a layer or two of cheesecloth and paint on the wax.
>> 3) soft cheese in oil. This sounds interesting. Can I just buy a soft
>> cheese and immurse it in oil?
>
>I bought a jar containing lots of balls of a soft white cheese in olive
>oil at a middle eastern grocery before this Pennsic, and it kept fine at
>Pennsic. I haven't experimented with producing it myself.
Aoife: Several years ago "Marinated Mozzerella" was the culinary rage.
Olive oil, a little balsamic vinegar, blanched garlic, and spices of your
choice are briefly heated to kill any nasty bugs. When cooled, it is
poured over cubed mozzerella or other semi-soft cheese. It keeps several
weeks on the counter, several months or more in the 'fridge. I heartily
reccomend this....cheese is wonderful when preserved this way.
>> 4) I would think even with some of these methods that you would still
>> want to keep the food in a cool place. How would you handle this out
>> in the heat of the Serengetti?
>
>Shade. And the Serengetti wasn't all that hot this year.
Aoife: Ditto. And things stay cooler when at least partially underground.
That's why many old homes have root cellars.
>David/Cariadoc
Aoife
liontamr at ptd.net
From: allilyn at juno.com (LYN M PARKINSON)
To: sca-cooks at eden.com
Subject: sca-cooks Re: [ck] freshness of meat
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 02:36:23 EDT
As to the keeping of meat, it can take some time to eat your way through
a large animal. Not all households used up whole herds of meat animals
per 2 day feast, as Chiquart did. Even so, he would have had the
butchers slaughter the animals well in advance. A stone walled cellar is
about 40 degrees, if the outside entrances are kept closed and there is
no source of heat.
I went to school in Switzerland for a while, in a little village. The
butcher had an open air shop, and hung the meat carcasses and parts up on
hooks for all the world like the Medieval illustrations. I remember
admiring the illustration aesthetics while still shuddering at the flies
on the meat, and the dust of the road. Butchering in Europe, at least
this century, is usually done early in the morning. If the meat hangs at
ambient temperature most of the day, then goes home with the customer, it
may get no refrigeration. It may, depending on its usage, be kept in a
pantry overnight and put on the fire in the morning to simmer all day.
If you kill your own animal, you have the entire carcass to deal with,
not just the piece you'd buy from the butcher. Not all is meant to be
salted, preserved, dried, pickled, etc.
Allison
From: dragon7777 at juno.com (Susan A Allen)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 20:43:12 -0700
Subject: Re: sca-cooks Eggs
I believe that eggs were also kept packed in clay
and more commonly packed in Lard, in fact
my grandmother (born in 1890) taught me how
to store goose without refrigeration, first you
bake it (actually several), then, store it in a barrel
with the goose grease poured over it to the top of the barrel.
This is a hot pack process, very little could
grow in this barrel, the grease, first inch or so
might get rancid, but the underlaying food
kept very well, she would know, she ate it.
Susan
From: JTRbear at aol.com
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 00:46:45 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: sca-cooks Re: Spice Use and Food Poisoning, etc.
In a message dated 97-04-10 09:51:53 EDT, you write:
<< Some of the things our ancestors did with food, we would not consider. But
eating rotten meat is not one of them. (Eating live animals, on the other
hand...)
Tibor >>
Actually the Icelandic people used to bury a type of a Greenland shark that
was too toxic to eat fresh and after in had started to rot releasing the
cyanic acid. They called it Hakarl.
Jean-Philipe Lours Jason Thiroux-Ragle
Incipient Canton of Wyewood,
Barony of Madrone,
Kingdom of An Tir
From: Uduido at aol.com
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 12:46:28 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: sca-cooks SCA-ck Lard Preservation
In a message dated 97-04-12 05:35:12 EDT, you write:
<< in fact
my grandmother (born in 1890) taught me how
to store goose without refrigeration, first you
bake it (actually several), then, store it in a barrel
with the goose grease poured over it to the top of the barrel. >>
This is absolutely true! My gram born in 1868, used to boil and pack pork in
lard in barrels the same way. Even after sitting in the cellar for a couple
of months, it was soooooooooooo good! Thanks for the memories. :-)
Lord Ras
From: gfrose at cotton.vislab.olemiss.edu (Terry Nutter)
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 15:25:30 -0500
Subject: Re: sca-cooks SCA-ck Lard Preservation
Hi, Katerine here. Lord Ras responded to someone whose name I don't recall:
><< in fact
> my grandmother (born in 1890) taught me how
> to store goose without refrigeration, first you
> bake it (actually several), then, store it in a barrel
> with the goose grease poured over it to the top of the barrel. >>
>
>This is absolutely true! My gram born in 1868, used to boil and pack pork in
>lard in barrels the same way. Even after sitting in the cellar for a couple
>of months, it was soooooooooooo good! Thanks for the memories. :-)
For what it's worth: there's a medieval recipe for keeping venison that
seals it in a container immersed in honey after cooking. The principle is
presumably similar: the cooking kills bad stuff in the meat, and the honey
both keeps out air and provides too rich a medium for new bad stuff to
grow.
Cheers,
- -- Katerine/Terry
From: gfrose at cotton.vislab.olemiss.edu (Terry Nutter)
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 00:36:31 -0500
Subject: Re: sca-cooks SCA-ck Lard Preservation
Hi, Katerine here. I wrote:
>> For what it's worth: there's a medieval recipe for keeping venison that
>> seals it in a container immersed in honey after cooking. The principle is
>> presumably similar: the cooking kills bad stuff in the meat, and the honey
>> both keeps out air and provides too rich a medium for new bad stuff to
>> grow.
And Aibhilin asked:
>I would be interested in where this can be found. I am not a familair
>with late period sources as I am with early stuff would it be all right to
>let me know where to look for this thanks
I think I've seen it a couple of places, but I've located only one of them
(I can dig further, if you really want). However, this doesn't quite match
my memory, in that the venison isn't cooked. The directions are to press
out all the blood, place it in an earthen vessel, and fill with honey until
the honey stands two fingers' breadth over the meat, then bind the top
of the vessel with leather, and keep it away from air, sun, or wind.
The claim is that it will keep "over the year". The recipe is in Liber
Cure Cocorum (page 33 of the Morris edition).
Cheers,
- -- Katerine/Terry
From: L Herr-Gelatt and J R Gelatt <liontamr at postoffice.ptd.net>
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 20:56:55 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: sca-cooks V1 #38
> Aoife: Eggs can be dipped in wax for longer life, and kept in a cool,
> cradled place. In England into this century it was possible to purchase a
> commercial egg-dip product which helped preserve the eggs without
> refrigeration.
>
>This was recently discussed in great detail in the Usenet newsgroup
>rec.food.historic. Go visit http://www.dejanews.com to find it. It
>involved a silicon material that is still available, and dipping. I'm
>afraid I skimmed it, and didn't save it.
>
> Tibor
I'm afraid this one is mine, too. Someone on rec.food.historic asked how to
preserve eggs (no FAQ for that group, yet?). The substance I quoted was
called waterglass, or a chemical called sodium something-or-other, and I
gave rather lengthy instructions quoted from a 1950's British cookery book.
The general consensus is that eggs, laid straight from the hen, will keep
well for a few days in a dry, not too hot, cradled place. Waterglass hardens
the shells and makes then non-permeable to oxygen. The same effect is
achieved by dipping in cooling wax or smearing with clarified fat such as
lard. Apparently there is another commercial product from Britain in the
50's that involves a fat and a solvent mixed together and smeared on the
eggs. Supermarket eggs (chilled), and eggs that have been commercially
washed, are probably not good candidates for keeping because of the layer of
shell that is removed (microscopic but necessary) that controlls oxidation.
Most of these are not my opinions, folks, but the consensus on another news
group.
Are we confused yet?
Aoife
From: "Philip W. Troy" <troy at asan.com>
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 02:25:11 -0400
Subject: Re: sca-cooks SCA-ck Lard Preservation
The method of preserving meats under a layer of fat is called potting in
English, and confit in French. It is still used today. In period,
similar applications include a reference to rillons (pork cubes
preserved in a pot of cooled lard) in Le Viandier de Taillevent, and the
practice of pouring the meat juices off from inside pies, replacing them
with melted butter to keep. This last is a late-period thing from
sources like, if I remember correctly, Markham and Plat.
Just a reminder, probably unnecessary: don't forget the simple pie when
considering the various preservation methods for meats. The crust keeps
off air and insects. It sure isn't like canning it, but it's a whole lot
better than ptomaine.
Adamantius
From: Leslie Watson <Leslie.Wat at hwcn.org>
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 09:24:47 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: sca-cooks SCA-ck Lard Preservation
Hi thank you for all the info, I was aware of the lard and pastry
perseration because this was also widely done in pre 12th cantury, the
sagas mention perserving in fat and whey.
Aibhilin
From: "Sharon L. Harrett" <afn24101 at afn.org>
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 17:07:57 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: sca-cooks Rot and Honey
On Sun, 13 Apr 1997 Uduido at aol.com wrote:
>
> As far as honey is concerned there is no known pathogenic germs that I am
> currently aware of that can survive in a honey environment. It males an
> excellent disinfectant when smeared on wounds and tastes better than salves
> when we are forced to retreat and lick our wounds.
>
> Lord Ras
Beg to differ, Lord Ras, but one anaerobic bacterium can and does survive in
honey... botulism spores. Mothers are cautioned not to use honey in any
preparation for an infant because of this. I doubt the concentration is
enough to affect an adult, but babies are very susceptible.
Ceridwen
From: "Philip W. Troy" <troy at asan.com>
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 20:52:26 -0400
Subject: Re: sca-cooks Re: Spice Use and Food Poisoning, etc.
Aonghas MacLeoid (B.G. Morris) wrote:
> Yum Yum! Rotting Shark, can we have seconds!!! : )
>
> Regards,
> Ealasaid (I know , don't knock it til you try it!!)
Comments on hakarl, the aforementioned rotting shark:
A) Depends on what you mean by rotten. As with the liquamen / garum of
the Romans, there is little or no bacterial action in the breakdown of
these fish products into a paste. In the case of liquamen, salt prevents
this. With hakarl, cold prevents it. However, there are enzymes stored
in the muscles of the fish which cause it to break down over time. Quite
similar, in fact, to the enzymes which reverse rigor mortis in aged
beef.
B) As previously suggested, don't knock it till you've tried it: the
fishing authority / sports writer / food writer A.J. McClane encountered
hakarl for the first time in Iceland, and had no idea what it was. He
was a little surprised to see Brie cheese at a smorebrod; and wondered
how and why it was there. However, he was glad it was there; he loved
the stuff. Eventually he found out it was a paste of fermented Greenland
shark, thought about it for a bit, shrugged, and went back for more. The
evidence suggests he is a wise man.
Adamantius
From: allilyn at juno.com (LYN M PARKINSON)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 17:56:39 EDT
Subject: SC - Re: sca-cooks SCA-ck Lard Preservation
There's also a reference, although I don't remember where it is, to Anne
of Cleves cooking pigeons and keeping them 'in their own fat'.
Allison
From: L Herr-Gelatt and J R Gelatt <liontamr at postoffice.ptd.net>
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 07:36:44 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: SC - Preserved Foods--Julleran Pls Note (LONG)
At 11:37 PM 4/14/97 -0500, you wrote:
>From: allilyn at juno.com (LYN M PARKINSON)
>There's also a reference, although I don't remember where it is, to Anne
>of Cleves cooking pigeons and keeping them 'in their own fat'.
>Has anyone tried this in the modern day?
>Allison
This is a pretty cool subject, and was covered on the Realto a few months
ago, with some lively debate (Stefan, can you point out that file?). It
sparked such an interest in me that I did some reserach and taught a class.
The week before the class I tested some of the various methods of preserving
things, direct from period sources. Guess what....thay all worked (at least
in the short term)! We ate the results, which had been preserved at least
3-4 days and in some cases a week, without and problems. It made for a very
nice "h'ors d'eouvre" session two hours before the feast.
I tested:
Food/Type: Result:
Preserving grapes in spring water.------Far fresher than just leaving them in
the fruit bowl. Quite effective short
term, and the water is also good, having
a mild fruit flavor.
Highly reccomended for camping and non-refrigerated sites. Keep
them airtight (topped with water).
Potted Shrimps and Potted Cheese--------This was sheer delight! You can use any
fat, but I suggest you go for flavor by
using clarified butter. In any case,
your fat must be very pure, and heated
very hot first, to kill any organisms
Pease kept in Clarified butter----------These were passable. They sat on the
counter for four days. Tasted good but
had an off (yellow)color when cooked.
Preserved Beef (after an Apecius--------The beef was kept using honey, vinegar,
recipe for veal) mustard, salt, and some herbs I threw
in. This was far and away the winner!
The meat was pre-cooked and then
immersed in the pickle, and kept very
well for 3 days (I didn't want to be
manic about it).
In the past I have also preserved oranges a la Huwife's Jewel, with
very good results (won a category at Ice Dragon with some that had been
preserved a month!). In addition, I have preserved flavors by making fruit
syrup (the vinegar kind), which will keep unrefrigerated for months. I also
have made pickled vegetables for my russian feast last year.
I maintain that many of our feasts are not truly "period" until we
begin to address the sorts of food processing typical to the middle ages.
For instance, one knowledgable source I read maintained that most Oysters
that were used, and most lemons in non-producing countries, were pickled
rather than fresh, since they had little or no shelf-life once the shipping
time was factored in.
I believe that we would only see a meal made completely of
unprocessed food during the high summer and fall months, in regards to a
large feast such as we normally produce in the SCA. Yes, it does make it
more difficult to plan the menu you want when you can get oranges and apples
year-round, but couldn't in Denmark in 1473. But it also makes for a truer
concept of the dining experience to limit yourself to the logical choices
(besides, it's cheaper to buy in season). Sometimes this falls down a little
in the face of 300 diners and a modern kitchen and limited time, but it is
truly worth the effort when you have a little extra time and a smaller
crowd. I have discovered that people really eat these preserved food to an
extent I wouldn't have believed possible. People must crave that
concentrated flavor you get with preserved foods, espescially the sweet and
sour varities.
It's just my two cents worth.
Aoife
From: elym at fla.net (Elizabeth Marsh)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 10:18:15 -0400
Subject: Re: SC - Re: sca-cooks SCA-ck Lard Preservation
>There's also a reference, although I don't remember where it is, to Anne
>of Cleves cooking pigeons and keeping them 'in their own fat'.
Well the best modern example of keeping fowl in its own fat is duck confite
(confeet? confete?, spelling is not my forte') , which is essentially
cooked duck covered completely in duck fat and refrigerated for many
months. I would think the refrigeration is quite key. But the fat keeps
out the air and the nasty things that it carries hence allowing for an
increased length of preservation. Modern recipes should be readily
available in a french cookbook and would probably lend themselves to
adaptation. (or if you watch the food channel David Rosengarten did a
really neat rendition of this)
Elena
From: dragon7777 at juno.com (Susan A Allen)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 23:41:28 -0700
Subject: SC - Re: Lard Preservation
Just a comment, goose fat is very tasty. It is a lot like a
butter in taste and texture (when warm) and takes heat well
Susan
From: "Philip W. Troy" <troy at asan.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 14:23:50 -0400
Subject: Re: SC - Re: sca-cooks SCA-ck Lard Preservation
Elizabeth Marsh wrote:
>
> Well the best modern example of keeping fowl in its own fat is duck confite
> (confeet? confete?, spelling is not my forte') , which is essentially
> cooked duck covered completely in duck fat and refrigerated for many
> months. I would think the refrigeration is quite key. But the fat keeps
> out the air and the nasty things that it carries hence allowing for an
> increased length of preservation. Modern recipes should be readily
> available in a french cookbook and would probably lend themselves to
> adaptation. (or if you watch the food channel David Rosengarten did a
> really neat rendition of this)
>
> Elena
The whole point of confits of duck, goose, pork, and a host of others,
is that they were devised to keep food fresh before refrigeration was an
issue. Almost invariably, the meat was and is subjected to a light cure
before the confiting process begins.
Ideal temperature for storing such confits is considered to be in the
50's F.; while there was no artificial refrigeration, there were things
like cellars to compensate. Also, this was less of a problem when there
was no central heating either.
By the way: Confits are believed by many to be Savoyard in
origin...Anybody know offhand if they appear in Chiquart? I don't have a
copy...I guess it would depend on the season of the feast Chiquart
covers.
Adamantius
From: gfrose at cotton.vislab.olemiss.edu (Terry Nutter)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 16:34:16 -0500
Subject: Re: SC - Re: sca-cooks SCA-ck Lard Preservation
Hi, Katerine here. Adamantius writes:
>By the way: Confits are believed by many to be Savoyard in
>origin...Anybody know offhand if they appear in Chiquart? I don't have a
>copy...I guess it would depend on the season of the feast Chiquart
>covers.
Depends what you call confit. There are confit recipes in English cuisine
going back to the 14th C -- but they fall into three distinct categories,
and none are meat stored in fat. Eel and pork in confit are both simply
dishes with sauce, and the indications are that they are to be served
directly from the kitchen. Pears or quinces in confit are fruit stewed
in sweet wine syrup; they may have also been used for preserving, but
it isn't clear that they were. And anise (and similar nuts and seeds)
in confit is a nut or seed surrounded by a hard sugar shell.
So what is it that people think originates in Savoy (and who are they,
and why do they think it)?
Cheers,
- -- Katerine/Terry
From: "Philip W. Troy" <troy at asan.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 19:14:41 -0400
Subject: Re: SC - Re: sca-cooks SCA-ck Lard Preservation
Terry Nutter wrote:
> Depends what you call confit. There are confit recipes in English cuisine
> going back to the 14th C -- but they fall into three distinct categories,
> and none are meat stored in fat. Eel and pork in confit are both simply
> dishes with sauce, and the indications are that they are to be served
> directly from the kitchen. Pears or quinces in confit are fruit stewed
> in sweet wine syrup; they may have also been used for preserving, but
> it isn't clear that they were. And anise (and similar nuts and seeds)
> in confit is a nut or seed surrounded by a hard sugar shell.
>
> So what is it that people think originates in Savoy (and who are they,
> and why do they think it)?
Yes, I realize that the word "confit" has numerous definitions. I
believe the clue to eel and pork confit might be this: are they served
cold? I'll have to check. The possibility exists that they were served
like some galantines in a jellied sauce made from the cooking liquid. I
don't know this, not having looked at the recipes, but I'd be surprised
to see a use of the word without some preservation connotation.
However, we were speaking in terms of goose, duck, or pork confit. The
Larrouse Gastronomique (a resource I have learned to implicitly distrust
EXCEPT in a case where French cooking is concerned) says that confit du
canard/oie/porc originated in the province of Savoy. Also, Savoy says
so, for what it's worth. Third, and most telling, is the fact that
confit of bird or beast is generally made using the same set of
ingredients, with changes made only to reflect the meat being used, and
the herbs used to accompany them. Standard issue is garlic, salt,
garlic, other herbs, and garlic. Considering the fact that the cuisine
of Savoy is now characterized by precisely these ingredients (with goose
fat being the preferred frying fat and shortening), I'd say this is a
possibility worth looking into. Bear in mind, I only asked about
Chiquart. Is Chiquart full of references to eel, anise, caraway, or
quince confit?
Incidentally, Savoy has a population noted today for the fact that they
consume more animal and other saturated fats per capita than any other
region on Earth, and have just about the lowest frequency of heart
problems. I presume the propensity for heart problems was weeded out of
the gene pool centuries ago.
Adamantius
From: "Philip W. Troy" <troy at asan.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 18:50:06 -0400
Subject: Re: SC - food preserving
Mark Harris wrote:
> Hmm. Wax is used to seal cheeses for preserving them now. I assume
> it was done in period even though wax was expensive. Is there any
> evidence of wax being used to seal meats? Or perhaps as seals on
> jars of vegatables? If so, would this be period canning?
>
> Stefan li Rous
> markh at risc.sps.mot.com
Wax was, as you point out, expensive. I understand one Elizabethan
method of sealing jars is with a piece of parchment soaked in brandy,
folded down over the opening and tied in place with a loop of string
around the mouth of the jar. This might be augmented with a sheet of
pig's bladder (kind of like sausage casing) tied on in the same way.
Also, a lot of what we use wax for was accomplished with regular fat. I
think I have a cheese recipe somewhere which calls for wrapping the
finished cheese in a sort of "bandage" with a round top, bottom, and a
strip around the edge. This is still done today, but it would then be
brushed with melted wax. The period instructions, if I remember
correctly, call for tallow or lard.
By the way, this method of sealing in wax-impregnated cloth is used
today in the manufacture of Prosciutto di Parma, and some dry sausages.
Perhaps it's an Italian thing.
I'm getting hungry!
Adamantius
From: "Sue Wensel" <swensel at brandegee.lm.com>
Date: 30 Jun 1997 10:46:01 -0500
Subject: Re(2): SC - mustard history
Adamantius writes:
>We've been through this pretty exhaustively before on this list. Not a
>comment on the above poster, just a comment on the claim about
>disguising "the rank taste of spoiled food"
Actually, Markham gives a recipe for salvaging spoiling venison. My account
is through work, so I don't have the book available, but I can post more on
the recipe tomorrow (if I remember).
>and camouflaging "the
>immense amount if salt used to preserve meat", which is one I've never
>heard before ; ). It does seem to be true that mustard was fairly
>ubiquitous across medieval Northern Europe; it i s one of the relatively
>few spices that is native to much of Europe, and therefore comparatively
>inexpensive. It is also true that mustard seems to be commonly used in
>combination with cured or salted meats, just as it is used today.
>However, I find it hard to accept the implication that such meat was
>eaten without soaking and otherwise desalting it. Recipes generally are
>pretty detailed about this process, and in an environment where salt
>meats were eaten pretty frequently it would have been common knowledge
>how to get around this.
On this I agree. Often salting meat will add a toughness to it, so Iwould not
be surprised if they often made soups with salted meat. Certain vegetables,
especially legumes, and grains like barley, will absorb as much salt as you
let it, if it cooks long enough.
Derdriu
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 11:34:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Re(2): SC - mustard history
Sue Wensel wrote:
> Actually, Markham gives a recipe for salvaging spoiling venison. My account
> is through work, so I don't have the book available, but I can post more on
> the recipe tomorrow (if I remember).
Yes, Markham instructs one to make an ale/vinegar brine pickle, and let
the venison sit in it for twelve hours, and then parboil and bake in a
pasty. I suspect this has more to do with depleted supplies of venison
in late period than with any wholesale desire to eat rotten meat
disguised as fresh. You'll notice that mustard doesn't figure in
Markham's recipe.
The sad fact is that there is a very common misconception among many
people who haven't studied the calendar as it applies to hunting,
farming, slaughtering, etc., that medieval food was generally heavily
spiced to disguise the fact that the meat was rotten. Evidently the
author of the LA Times article was one such person. I'll certainly
concede that recipes such as Markham's do exist in several sources, but
then there are also several books in print today about repairing food
that didn't quite turn out as intended. That doesn't mean that it is a
distinguishing mark of modern American (or whatever) cuisine that the
food is generally burned, oversalted, lumpy when it should be smooth, or
what have you.
> >Recipes generally are
> >pretty detailed about this process, and in an environment where salt
> >meats were eaten pretty frequently it would have been common knowledge
> >how to get around this.
>
> On this I agree. Often salting meat will add a toughness to it, so Iwould not
> be surprised if they often made soups with salted meat. Certain vegetables,
> especially legumes, and grains like barley, will absorb as much salt as you
> let it, if it cooks long enough.
Other possibilities include beating the meat with a mallet to tease some
of the fibers apart, which would not only tenderize but serve to
increase the exposed surface area and make the desalting easier. Also a
bit of sugar in the cure, which you're more likely to find in late
period salting techniques for meat, will prevent some of the hardening.
Adamantius
From: gfrose at cotton.vislab.olemiss.edu (Terry Nutter)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 13:17:43 -0500
Subject: Re: Re(2): SC - mustard history
Hi, Katerine here. Derdriu writes:
>Actually, Markham gives a recipe for salvaging spoiling venison. My account
>is through work, so I don't have the book available, but I can post more on
>the recipe tomorrow (if I remember).
I'm not familiar with that particular recipe (I don't do much work that late),
but I'll lay strong odds the salvage doesn't involve slapping on a sauce
and eating the bad parts.
Salvaging is not the same as covering a bad taste. I do know an earlier
such recipe, and it's revealing about the actual nature of the attitude.
Recipe number 58 from Diuersa Servicia, the second collection reproduced in
Curye on Inglysch, describes what to do with a joint of venison that has
just begun to show signs of going bad in spots. (It is explicit, by the
way, that it should only have bad *spots* which have *begun* to show.)
It starts by cutting away the bad spots. Next, you soak it in cold water,
then bake it slowly in the hearth for three days and three nights. After
that, you apply saltpeter to the area around where you cut out the bad
bits, then soak overnight in rainwater.
I am not a microbiologist (or for that matter a culinary hygienist); and I
am modern enough to want to just throw the thing out and do without venison.
But my impression, from reading the recipe and thinking about it, is that
even by modern standards, this ought to just about turn the trick.
And leave no taste of rot to cover.
Recipe number 57 describes how to prevent venison from turning (essentially,
how to dress and salt it). They are *very* clear about not exposing it
to air before salting.
There are similar recipes in other collections, including one that preserves
venison by immersing it completely in honey, and then sealing the container.
They all look, from a modern standpoint, like preservation techniques.
The whole business, both of preventing rot and of dealing with a joint some
spot of which has begun to turn, involves a lot of time and effort. No
one would go to all that trouble if s/he thought that it were okay just to
slap on a little mustard to cover the nasty taste. The clear presumption
is that eating bad meat is a bad idea.
Cheers,
- -- Katerine/Terry
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 17:46:40 -0400
Subject: SC - Spoiled meat: was "Mustard History"
Terry Nutter wrote:
> Hi, Katerine here. Adamantius writes of the recipe in Markham:
> >Yes, Markham instructs one to make an ale/vinegar brine pickle, and let
> >the venison sit in it for twelve hours, and then parboil and bake in a
> >pasty. I suspect this has more to do with depleted supplies of venison
> >in late period than with any wholesale desire to eat rotten meat
> >disguised as fresh. You'll notice that mustard doesn't figure in
> >Markham's recipe.
>
> Does Markham say anything about how far gone the joint is to allow this
> treatment?
He's not real clear on what constitutes "tainted". I suspect this is
mostly a matter of prevailing taste, and at what point venison stops
being gamey and starts being tainted, or, for that matter, stops being
tainted and starts being rotten, is open to considerable question. I
suppose it boils down to that point at which no amount of treatment will
recover the food from the present toxins even if the bacteria are
killed: then it is irretrievably spoiled, and not tainted. I suppose
"tainted", according to Markham, might well be that point at which the
meat stops having a pleasant gaminess, and starts being something that
is hard to choke down without help.
In other words, what I would have made escabeche out of, once upon a
time ; ).
> If there are only a couple of very superficial bad spots, the
> alcohol and acid in the pickle will kill the bacteria, and the parboiling
> will boil away most of the byproducts responsible for the taste. It
> is far better to cut the bad bit away entirely (the visible bad bit, at
> least) first; does he suggest that? Every earlier recipe I know of for
> salvage does. If he does, and if the joint was only just starting to turn,
> then what you wind up with is not rotten meat. Certainly not top quality,
> but not rotten either.
I think it's more like acid and salt; I believe the ale is boiled with
vinegar till it is as strong as the original vinegar. I'm also working
from memory here, not having immediate access to the book (although I
did earlier today). Since the "marinade" is cooked, I doubt alcohol is
really a factor, but acid and salt certainly would be. Most food in the
early stages of "spoilage" has some buildup of lactic and other acids,
and tastes sour. Those of you who have had the misfortune to taste
something to see if it's bad will probably attest to this. A vinegar
bath would presumably mask this, while not exactly removing it.
One clue that what Markham refers to is not heavy-duty spoilage lies in
the fact that he makes no reference to cutting anything off, unless it
is assumed you will do that anyway.
Another factor I consider significant is that the process described by
Markham includes cooking it, not once, but twice. In other words, one
should note that none of these recovery processes seem to be regarded as
a license to do anything either stupid or wasteful. The bottom line in
all cases I've seen is that the meat should be used immediately.
Retroactive preservation it may be, but there are limtis to its
effectiveness, which people knew quite well.
Adamantius
From: Uduido at aol.com
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 20:36:44 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: SC - Salted meat
In a message dated 97-06-30 12:19:50 EDT, you write:
<< Other possibilities include beating the meat with a mallet to tease some
of the fibers apart, which would not only tenderize but serve to
increase the exposed surface area and make the desalting easier. >>
Egads! Reminds me of those dried stockfish that you can find in Jewish
markets in N.Y. I have one (or rather half a one) hanging in my kitchen that
is at least 13 years old. I just cut off a piece whenever I am in need of
emergency fish stock. Pound it to death. Soak it. Pound it some more, Soak
it. etc. Makes great stock but I wish I could justify getting a new one. :-0
Lord Ras
From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 10:49:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: SC - Meat for a week
At 9:35 AM -0400 7/7/97, Uduido at aol.com wrote:
>This is not a period solution to the cooler question but ...
>As you can see, the fresh meats are used during the first couple of days and
>then the remaining meals are meats which we purchase, etc. in advance and
>pressure can.
There is actually an early Islamic recipe--from a 10th century collection,
the recipe attributed to Jafar al-Barmaki, c. 800--for a cold chicken in
oil which, although not literally canned, ought to work the same way. We've
only tried it once, so I don't have a clear idea how long it keeps.
- --
Bridah (a cold dish) of Abu Ja'far al-Barmaki
Translated by Charles Perry from a 9-10th c. Islamic collection.
A fowl is taken, roasted, jointed and thrown in a jar into which are put
coriander, pepper, cumin and cinnamon. Verjus is added, and mint, tarragon
and fresh thyme are cut over it, and good oil is poured over it. Fresh
spices are minced onto it, and it is decorated with chopped cucumber.
- --
David/Cariadoc
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 13:18:54 SAST-2
From: "Ian van Tets" <IVANTETS at botzoo.uct.ac.za>
Subject: SC - Coldness
Reading the discussion from a couple of days ago about cold fish
reminded me of the traditional methods in Cornwall for cooling cream
(while clotting it). Put the pan on the stone floor. Apparently this
is where the expression 'stone cold' comes from. Even up to the
fifties fridge-less people were storing milk and fish on a piece of
slate in the larder.
Cairistiona
(IVANTETS at BOTZOO.UCT.AC.ZA)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 10:07:45 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: Re- SC - medieval "spam"?
> Probably the closest thing you'll find would be some kind of brawn,
> which, in (relatively late) period, would be a boneless whole, small
> pig, or a piece thereof, with some skin on it, brine-cured or "pickled",
> rather like corned beef or some such, rolled up, tied in a bundle, and
> braised.
>
> >>>>>
> But Spam isn't pickled is it? I'm not quite sure how corned beef is
> processed.
> <<<<
Some meats are cured dry-salting, some by immersing them in brine. Some
dry-salted meats lose enough of their water content so that the salt in
which they are covered becomes a brine. Salt-cured meats that do not get
subsequently smoked, are often spoken of as "pickled". Salt pork is one
of them, especially when the brine sours a bit, due to lactobacillic
action. The sour flavor you taste in things like corned beef and some
salt pork is the acid produced by the bacteria in the brine. This is
fairly similar to the pickling process of some cucumber pickles,
sauerkraut, and the dreaded kim chee, as no vinegar is involved.
Anyway, at least some of the meat used to make Spam is not cured and
smoked, but salted-cured or pickled as described above.
> >>>>>>
> So what are souse meats? And a description of head cheese would be nice.
> I've heard the term before, but I'm not real clear on what they are. I
> assume it is not a pig's head packed with cheese. Are either period? I
> would assume so, but...
Souse meat is an Appalachian term for such pickled meat, usually pork
heads, trimmings, etc., simmered, picked off the bones, packed into a
crock or loaf pan, and covered with the cooking liquid, boiled down
until a bit syrupy. It gels as it cools, and cements the meat together
into a loaf that can be sliced. In other words, head cheese, more or
less. There is a German term for a similar dish, known as suelze, which
I suspect may have been brought to North America by the Amish, and ended
up in the Appalachians by that route.
Head cheese is made in the same way. Some recipes specifically call for
only the head of the pig to be used, and some call for other parts as
well. FWIW, neither brains nor eyeballs end up in head cheese. It is
mostly the rather meaty jowls and the tongue, with some of the gristly
bits and skin, these last two parts being cooked until quite soft, as
one might do with pig's feet. Again, it is all held together with the
jellied stock in which it was cooked.
Both head cheese and souse meat are descended from period meat dishes,
specifically brawn. I have not seen any period recipes, descriptions, or
references to the dishes in their modern forms, though.
Adamantius
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 22:10:47 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: Re- SC - medieval "spam"?
Tyrca at aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 97-10-26 06:05:17 EST, Admantius wrote:
>
> << The sour flavor you taste in things like corned beef and some
> salt pork is the acid produced by the bacteria in the brine. >>
>
> Now I am confused. I was under the impression that corned beef was soaked in
> a weak lye solution to partially cook/preserve it. Am I wrong? I pastrami
> almost the same thing? All I know is what I find in preshrunk plastic wrap
> in the supermarket.
Corned beef is covered with a mixture of dry coarse salt and various
flavorings and spices. The cure sometimes (always, commercially, it
seems) has saltpeter added to it. One common form/source of saltpeter
available to the military supply crews who perfected the process of
"corning" was gunpowder, which comes in little kernels or corns, hence
the name. Previously salt beef was either known as salt beef or powdered
beef.
Anyway, the beef gets packed into a barrel with the salt, flavorings,
etc., and begins to give off a good deal of its own water, which turns
the salt into brine. Lactobacilli, which can survive quite well in salty
conditions, grow, and add their own little chemical processes to the
soup. The final effect, overall, is that the meat gets preserved in salt
and acid, and flavored with salt, spices, and a bit of lactic acid.
Pastrami is originally a Turkish dish called bastourma, generally a sort
of salted, spiced, and air-dried beef. Kinda like cappicola made from
beef, or bresaeola, which is essentially a beef filet turned into
prosciutto, if you can get past the imagery and into the reality of it.
What we call pastrami in the USA, is salt-cured beef, similar to corned
beef (both are traditionally brisket, although wimps prefer bottom
round), that is then coated with some coarse black pepper and
cold-smoked for a while. It is then traditionally steamed to cook, since
boiling it, as one would with corned beef, would remove the outer
coating of smoky stuff and pepper.
Not quite sure where lye enters into any of this, but there are more
things in Heaven and Earth, etc.
Adamantius
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 14:29:58 -0600 (CST)
From: L Herr-Gelatt and J R Gelatt <liontamr at ptd.net>
Subject: SC - RE: Is camping without a cooler out of period?
>Cariadoc mentions a recipe for
>> pickled meat; do we have any evidence that such things were only used at
>>the end of the winter?
>Is that in the Miscellany, or Volumes I and II, if so, where? If not,
>could you post the recipe????
>thanks in advance,
>Bogdan
I do not know to which recipe His Grace is referring, however having
discussed this with type of thread with he and several other poeple on the
Rialto and rec.food.historic some time ago (See Stefan's Preserved Foods and
Camping without Coolers sections of the famous and stupendous Florilegium),
I can tell you that there is a recipe for Pickled Meat in Apecius. I have
tried it and it is really good. It has honey, vinegar, salt, and cracked
mustard seeds. My version comes out sweet-n-sour. The directions, IIRC, say
that the meat can be fresh or cooked when pickled. It makes a great camping
food when prepared with cooked beef. My husband sits up and begs for it when
I make it (btw, it's so simple I just throw in some of this, and some of
that. So, I have no redaction to offer you).
This whole issue prompted me to do some research and teach a class about 2
years ago about preserved foods from period recipes. I held it as a sort of
cocktial-party, and everyone had the opportunity to sample various
foodstuffs I had preserved for several weeks (recipes provided): Grapes in
spring water, Pickled Beef, Smoked Salmon, Pease preserved in Butter
(discolored but still tasty), Potted Meats, pickled vegetables, preserved
fruits, etc. There was not a single scrap of food left at the end of the
class. Most of these were served with sippets (tiny bits of thinly sliced
toasted or butter-fried bread) to make it easy to handle the foodstuffs. I
am doing a repeat of that class at the Aethelmearc Academy on June 20th in
Robledal (Just East of Pittsburgh), should anyone wish to explore this
particular class further, or any of the other fabulous classes offered.
FWIW, I found a referance on the 'net to salt beef (ie: corned) in an
ancient Irish poem about a King who was fed this to make him strong before
battle, IIRC. I will try to dig this up for my class in June.
I have yet to find a source for period recipes which DOES NOT contain
recipes for preserved foods. It seems a shame that so many modern "feasts"
contain food that is uniformly fresh (as opposed to preserved in some
fashion), and/or out-of season but fresh produce.This seems to me to be a
convenience for the cooks (I have done it myself. Salad in January,
anyone?), but is not really how the true medieval "High Dining" experience
would have been. My next big project is (I think) to do a reality-based
feast with what would have been seasonal for the time of year AND the
preserved foods that would have accompanied it. Hopefully, I will do this
from a single source (or culture/time). I haven't decided which. Any
suggestions? I may do this for my small but fun Melee Madness Feast at the
begining of June. Pickled foods are perfect for campground cooking!
Aoife, who always incorporates preserved food in her feasts nowadays. Folks
LOVE them!
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 17:57:12 -0400
From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow)
Subject: Re: SC - preserving meat
Hello! I found these in Plat's Delights for Ladies, 1609:
24. Flesh kept sweet in summer.
You may keep Veal, Mutton, or Venison in the heat of Summer ix or x daies
good, so as it be newly and fair killed, by hanging the same in an high and
windy room (And therefore a plate cupboard full of holes, so as the winde
may haue a thorow passage, would be placed in such a room, to auoid the
offence of Fly-blowes) This is an approued Secreet, easie & cheap, and very
necessary to be knowe and practised in hot and tainting weather. Veale may
be kept ten daies in bran.
19. How to keepe powdered [salted] Beefe five or six weeks after it is
sodden, without any charge.
When your Beefe hath beene well and thoroughly powdered by tenne or twelve
dayes space, then seeth it thoroughly, dry it with a cloth, and wrap it in
drie clothes. placing the same in close vessels and cup-boards, & it wil
keep sweet and sound two or three moneths, as I am credibly informed from
the experience of a kinde and louing friend.
#20 goes on to say to keep Beef at sea, take this salted beef (soaked 9 or
10 days in brine), put it in barrels pierced full of holes, tie the barrels
to the stern of the ship & fling them overboard!! "which, by his infinite
change and succession of water, will suffer no putrefaction, as I suppose"
But he hasn't tried it.
#15 preserves shelled oysters in a pickle made of their own juice, white
wine vinegar, salt & pepper.
#16 preserves cooked Salmon in a close vessel, immersed in wine vinegar,
with a branch of rosemary.
#17 (already discussed?) preserves fried fish in oil.
#18 preserves small pieces of roasted beef in a barrel with wine vinegar.
Cindy/Sincgiefu
renfrow at skylands.net
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 09:43:18 -0700
From: "Balldrich BallBarian BoulderBain" <msca at c2i2.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Salted Fish
> I find plenty of recipes about how to cook with the fish once it
> is salted, but nothing about how it got that way :) Any help would be
> greatly appreciated.
>
> THLady Morgan MacBride
> Meridies
While in Germany I was exposed to salt grinding and preservation. The
salt was stone motar ground to near talcum fineness then used to salt both
meat fish and fowl. It takes a lot of salt and it is obsorbed like crazy.
When it came time to try to use the preserved items they really had to be
soaked, and soaked, and soaked, and soaked. . . I think you get ther idea.
Smoking fish is also very popular in areas where the professional salt
grinders could not be afforded. Smoked then salted seems redundant but it
was the method shown on fish using the normal not ground salt. Pork was
often preserved in a very heavy concentrate of salt water. According to
the German teacher who was giving us this, pork was smoked and salted
before barrels came into regular use. So it all comes back to salt salt
salt. Rinse, rinse, rinse and rinse again. (GRIN) Enjoy
Balldrich
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 16:19:40 EDT
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - mincemeat
Seton1355 at aol.com writes:
<< I was reading some Elizabethan mincemeat recipies. Question: Is the idea of
mincemeat, to stretch the small amount of meat by the addition of the fruits etc?
Phillipa >>
I would suspect that the idea of mincemeat was to preserve food. Once made
mincemeat keeps for a relatively long period of time when compared to meat in
other forms. The sugar acts as preservative.
Ras
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 18:34:08 -0500
From: mermayde at juno.com (Christine A Seelye-King)
Subject: SC - Pork Addendum
My lord was reading over my shoulder, and one of the many comments about
pork came up. He just threw out an interesting fact he got from an old
"Mother Earth News". If you half cook bacon, and then lay it in a pan,
cover it with bacon grease/lard and store it, it will keep from going
rancid for months. He said the article was on alternative methods of
food preservation.
Christianna
(and Damon)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:18:16 -0500
From: "Gray, Heather" <Heather at Quodata.Com>
To: "'sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu'" <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: RE: Spices
>For a good book purely on preserving food in past times see Waste not
>want not ed C Anne Wilson OOP now BTW.
>Mel
_Waste Not, Want Not_ is apparently available at Amazon.com -- here's
the info for those interested (whether for purchasing or library
purposes):
'Waste Not, Want Not' : Food Preservation from Early Times to the
Present Day (Food and Society Series)
by C. Anne Wilson (Editor)
Our Price: $50.00
Availability: This title usually ships within 24 hours.
Hardcover (April 1992)
Edinburgh Univ Pr; ISBN: 0748601198
El
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 13:50:10 -0400
From: johnna holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Viking Fish preservation
Elizabeth posted this query back in July and I finally
came across a couple of books that may throw some light on
the question.
Sue Shephard's Pickled, Potted and Canned. How the Art and Science
of Food Preserving Changed the World has finally made it to the USA.
It came out in the UK in 2000. It mentions burying foods in bogs where
it is preserved due to the boric acid in the soil. No footnotes but a
really comprehensive bibliography.
Also Food Conservation. Ethnological Studies. edited by Riddervold
and Ropeid. Prospect Books, 1988. Consists of the papers from the
7th International Conference on Ethnological Food Research held in Norway
in 1987. 24 papers covering technical, cultural and historical aspects.
Interesting collection, but nothing much on the use of peat.
Johnna Holloway
From: "Jane/Bj Tremaine" <vikinglord at worldnet.att.net>
To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Pickling with Whey
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 19:52:09 -0700
I tried it. I friend of mine had a small oaken cask and we put beef in it
with a lot of whey. (Man, do heath food stores look at you weird when you
ask for 2 quarts of fresh not dried whey.) We buried it in a part of my yard
that the sun never shines on. We also put one in my ancient fridge under the
cooling pipes. Our train of thought was it gets really cold up there and
the permafrost may have had something to do with it all.
Well my roommate said the Ice Cream in the ancient fridge was spoiled. And
the neighbors dog dug up and ate the other one. The dog survived, the cask
did not.
If I ever find another oak cask that small that I can aford I'll try it
again. A friend on mine suggested crockery. By the way we did seal the
inside of the cask with beeswax, and the lid.
Jana
> I have heard that the Viking Age Norse used whey instead of vinegar in
> food preservation and pickling, but I am not having much success in
> turning up any recipes or hints on how it was done or how to do it.
>
> I will be making some cheese shortly, and I would like to use the whey
> as well, rather then throw it out. Especially since I will be spending
> extra money on the milk product to get whole, unprocessed,
> un-hormone-fed milk.
>
> Lady Sunnifa Eiriksdottir
> House White Shark
> Canton of Lindenwood
> Barony of the Steppes
> Kingdom of Ansteorra
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 13:37:35 -0400
From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius1 at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-Cooks] period food preservation-- tell me about your experiments
To: jenne at fiedlerfamily.net Cooks within the SCA
<sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
On Jul 25, 2007, at 1:25 PM, Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise wrote:
> Hey, everyone--- I'm looking for stories about your attempts to try
> period food preservation techniques. Yes, this is for my class.
>
> I know about Lord's Salt and am going to use it for some beef...
> Adamantius, you had very good luck with one of the compost recipes
> keeping for years in your fridge, didn't you? Which one was it, do you
> remember?
As I recall, it was sort of a synthesis of the FoC recipe (where
everything is cooked, dried on a cloth, lightly salted, and conserved
with spices in honey, Lombard mustard, wine, and vinegar), and the Le
Menagier recipe with the green nuts. I just cooked the green nuts (I
came into possession of some green almonds in the pod) like green
beans and included them. The only thing I did really differently was
to heat it all up and put it in sterilized canning jars. But the jar
had been opened and still stayed remarkably intact for years in the
fridge.
After having made the stuff several times, and also seen it made by
others, I'm convinced that the key to a good and well-preserved
compost is to use _plenty_ of honey and achieve a very thick sauce.
Adamantius
<the end>