fd-sumpt-laws-msg - 10/8/08
Medieval food sumptuary laws. Conspicuous consumption.
NOTE: See also the files: Pearls-Law-art, p-sumpt-laws-msg, smptuary-laws-lnks, fashion-msg, med-law-art, Dresng-t-Dish-art, entertaing-fds-art, gilded-food-msg.
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Stefan at florilegium.org
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Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 10:18:38 -0400
From: Micheal <dmreid at hfx.eastlink.ca>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Sumptuary laws on food
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
> In the "coffyns" thread Gisele commented:
>> Can't check references on England's sumptuary laws, but the great pie
>> was a fine way to get around restrictions on the number of dishes -
>> conspicuous consumption being very popular, especially for the
>> merchant class primarily affected by them.
> Oh? What sumptuary laws on foods? I've heard of the sumptuary laws on
> clothing, and I believe, comments on certain foods being appropriate for
> the noble classes but not for peasants, and vice-versa, but I wasn't aware
> of sumptuary laws on the number of dishes which could be served.
>
> More details, please. When and where were these restrictions/laws? Can you
> quote the exact laws? Anyone?
>
> Stefan
Preliminary look found this by looking for Sumptuary laws. Sorry not much
really but does point towards Sumptuary food laws.
http://www.yesnet.yk.ca/schools/projects/middleages/sumptuary/sumptuary.html
In those day when you had company over for a meal you had to serve a
specified number of courses depending on their class in the feudal system.
If you were inviting a high church official to dinner, such as a cardinal,
you would have to serve 9 courses. For guests such as bishops, archbishops,
or counts you had to serve 7 courses. An ordinary government official could
have just 6 courses.
So if this is correct a great pie would get around this in that it has
several full courses within one.
Da
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 09:03:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Sumptuary laws on food
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
> So if this is correct a great pie would get around this in that it has
> several full courses within one.
>
> Da
It might if you are thinking nutritionally.
However, if you were noble enough to be
entertaining a cardinal, I doubt if you would
want to cut corners like that. Churchmen were
usually very conscious of their position and
might take offence if you offered only 6 or 7
courses when they were deserving of 9. Offending
churchmen meant that you might not get that
dispensation that you were looking for.
This kind of sumptuary law, if it is correct,
appears to be aimed at the nobility and not the
lower classes, IMHO.
Huette
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 20:25:24 -0800 (PST)
From: Marcus Loidolt <mjloidolt at yahoo.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re:Sca-cooks Digest, Vol 21, Issue 125
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
--- Micheal <dmreid at hfx.eastlink.ca> wrote:
> Preliminary look found this by looking for
> Sumptuary laws. Sorry not much
> really but does point towards Sumptuary food laws.
> http://www.yesnet.yk.ca/schools/projects/middleages/sumptuary/
sumptuary.html
I'm sorry to say when I looked at this site, I saw
such holes that I might drive a twenty mule team train
through. The great generalizations and blanket
statements just scathe me.
and the 17th century shoes just took me over the top!
I will say that I don't know as Churchmen be they high
or low are any more prone to noticing or not noticing
their due than any layperson in like rank, and apt to
do a lot less damage in retaliation!
Johann
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 19:28:12 -0800 (PST)
From: she not <atamagajobu at yahoo.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: sumptuary laws
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
>>>
http://www.yesnet.yk.ca/schools/projects/middleages/sumptuary/sumptuary.html
It might if you are thinking nutritionally.
However, if you were noble enough to be
entertaining a cardinal, I doubt if you would
want to cut corners like that. Churchmen were
usually very conscious of their position and
might take offence if you offered only 6 or 7
courses when they were deserving of 9. ...This kind of sumptuary law,
if it is correct, appears to be aimed at the nobility and not the
lower classes, IMHO.
Huette
<<<
Sumptuary laws were enacted to limit conspicuous consumption and to
protect the privileges of the nobility. (Clothes makyth man and all
that) Thus they were often specifically aimed at merchants and other
commoners who were able to spend as much or more than the privileged
class they imitated.
The point of getting around sumptuary laws wasn't "cutting corners",
but finding ways to get away with MORE than the law allowed- hence the
grete pye, which comprised a whole course in one allowable (arguably-
and boy was it argued!) dish. Many areas hired persons to check
ornamentation, colors, etc. on festival days to make sure the wearer
had no more than he or she was entitled to- some would even clip off
illegal buttons on the spot! The defense was often spirited, ingenious
and amusing. Reading the resulting legal proceedings is a good way to
document specific fashions in time/place, btw.
The collected Medici letters have several interesting food-related
bits: one description of a wedding ca 1480s includes the usual
mind-boggling list of foodstuffs brought in for it, makes several
approving comments on the ostentatious "modesty" of the meals served,
adding "and there was never more than one roast." (in a course). As the
city's leading family, the medici were being praised for restricting
themselves to display appropriate for the commoners they were in
comparison to less powerful and more vulgar houses.
gisele
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 18:37:12 +0000 (GMT)
From: emilio szabo <emilio_szabo at yahoo.it>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Italian sumptuary laws / turkey 1559
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Googling for Giambonino da Cremona viz. Iamboninus Cremonensis, I stumbled
upon a 700 page volume on Italian sumptuary laws including many source texts.
The laws cover the time span from the XIIIth to the XVIth century.
The introduction is in Italian, the sources are written in Latin and italian:
http://www.archivi.beniculturali.it/DGA-free/Fonti/Fonti_XLI.pdf
I haven't had the time to examine the texts. However, searching for "mangiare" I found a passage from 1559, where there is a regulation on how to use turkeys (galline d'India) and Blancmanger (mangiare biancho) in wedding feasts.
The quotation might add to our picture of the spread of turkey in 16th century cuisine.
(For those interested in the Italian text: It is on page 337 of the book, and at PDF-number 369.)
I am sure, there is more of it, but I must leave it to other readers.
Emilio
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 19:43:10 +0000 (GMT)
From: emilio szabo <emilio_szabo at yahoo.it>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Italian sumptuary laws / turkey 1559
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
<<< There is a book that goes into the turkey in Italy.
It's by Sabine Eiche. In English the title is Presenting the Turkey.
Really good selection of artwork, inc. pottery and paintings.
http://members.shaw.ca/seiche/pubs.html
Johnna >>>
Thanks much! The author, Sabine Eiche writes on her site, that she might
come up with an interesting cookbook:
" ... I have spent years reading the Della Rovere?s personal
correspondence to learn as much as possible about the private life and
character of each duke and his family members. An insider?s view, I
decided, was essential for understanding their ambitions and
intentions, and for evaluating their achievements. Occasionally the
letters lured me down unexpected byways?as happened with the turkey,
"stranger than anything an artist could ever imagine drawing." That
excursion resulted in an article and a book on the arrival and fate of
the New World turkey in Europe.
The letters also sparked an interest in food history. The Della
Rovere never tired of discussing their health and diet, and the regular
references to gifts of food "figs, cheeses, and exceptionally good
fruits and vegetables" reminded me of the extent to which their lives
were synchronized with the cycles of the year, resulting in a natural
harmony that we, in modern times, have sacrificed for convenience. The
lessons learned from their letters will form the basis of a future
cookbook."
BTW, there is another 1100 page volume on sumptuary laws. While the first one I sent is about the region Emilia Romagna, this one is about Umbria.
http://www.archivi.beniculturali.it/DGA-free/Fonti/Fonti_XLIII.pdf
There is a glossary (with food entries like torta, sfogliato) and references
to the sources.
Emilio
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 13:14:36 -0700
From: David Walddon <david at vastrepast.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Italian sumptuary laws / turkey 1559
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
If you have access to Dissertation Services you should also check out
"Sumptuary Legislation in Renaissance Florence (Italy)" by Ronald Eug
Rainey. Lots of interesting stuff in his dissertation.
I have browsed through it for specifics and for the great sources,
but have not had time to read the whole thing.
Eduardo
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