eggs-msg – 1/17/08
Medieval eggs. Recipes. Substitutions for eggs in medieval recipes.
NOTE: See also the files: egg-storage-msg, eggs-stuffed-msg, fowls-a-birds-msg, chicken-msg, birds-recipes-msg, breakfast-msg, frittours-msg, Scotch-Eggs-msg, caviar-msg.
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NOTICE -
This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.
This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org
I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.
The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.
Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).
Thank you,
Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous
Stefan at florilegium.org
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From: allilyn at juno.com (LYN M PARKINSON)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 15:03:41 EDT
Subject: SC - Re: Arme Ritter
The name comes from modern German cookbooks, but the practice was taught
me by my son's German in-laws. The families became close--that's how the
kids met and married. They are supportive of my desire to trace down the
history of some of the foods, and to find and translate receiptes. They
use thick, handcut slices of good bread, and dip them into finely grated
crumbs before frying them. They are served with fried apple slices, or
with the apfelmuss. (That double s should be a German character) They
are more likely to sprinkle with cinnamon and sugar before serving, I
frequently put nutmeg into the egg mixture, because that's the way I like
it. The idea was that the poorest knights might be able to eat an
egg--stretched--but couldn't afford to kill the chicken! I suppose, if
your were a poor knight out on campaign, you could find an egg, some
bread, and whatever the local orchard had on the tree.
It can also be found in _Wie man eyn teutsches Mannsbild bey Krafften
halt_. by H. Jurgen Fahrenkamp. This is a book that's probably
something like To A King's Taste--I forget. It has modern redactions, in
German, by an author who has taken them from a variety of sources. He
doesn't give the originals. This dish he gives another name, saying it's
a fantasy name of something that was formerly known as 'Arme Ritter'.
8 Scheiben Weissbrot 8 slices white bread
1/4 l Milch 1 C. milk
3 Eier 3 eggs
Paniermehl bread crumbs
Zimt cinnamon
Zucker sugar
50 g Schmalz lard (or other frying
substance)
Dazu passt ein fruchtiger Obstsalat, (he calls for a 'fruit salad' rather
than the apple slices or apple sauce)
You could use a hot fruit compote, or any fruit that was in season.
Enjoy...
Allison
From: "Philip W. Troy" <troy at asan.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 22:02:43 -0400
Subject: Re: SC - Yolks vs whites
linneah at erols.com wrote:
> Pardon my ignorance, as you all have many times before, but what does an egg
> yolk do (other than fat and taste) that egg white doesn't? I'm trying to keep the
> fat content down as much as possible and was wondering if substituting would
> effect anything seriously. I know that the taste will be different, but what
> else?
>
> Linneah
There are some dishes in which the substitution of egg whites for whole
eggs or yolks would make a big difference.
While the yolk contains virtually all of the fat of the egg, the white
contains most of the protein. Albumen in the white tends to curdle when
cooked, so it isn't as good for things like custards as yolks or whole
eggs would be. Also, without the fat, baked goods tend to be a bit
tougher. Conversely, egg yolks generally tenderize baked goods, since
they contribute some shortening fat.
I suspect the thing to do is to find some recipes that use egg whites,
so as eliminate at least some of the less effective experimentation. Off
the top of my head, I think I recall that there are various biscuit
recipes that call for egg whites (certainly things like the white bisket
bread found in Elinor Fettiplace, which is essentially meringue, and
quite period, no matter what you may have read). Ditto macaroons. Also the
cheesecake called sambucade in the Forme of Cury uses egg whites and a
curd cheese, which could easily be of the low-fat variety.
I'm sure there are several others, but would have to check into this a
bit deeper.
Happy hunting!
Adamantius
From: Uduido at aol.com
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 09:15:27 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: SC - Yolks and Copyright
<< what does an egg yolk do (other than fat and taste) that egg white doesn't? >>
Egg yolks tend to thicken the recipes they are used in while egg whites (e.g.
cakes, souffles ) add a "lightening" effect. Recipes which specifically call
for the use of yolks (e.g. sauces, soups) cannot (and , indeed, should not)
be substituted.
Lord Ras (Uduido at aol.com)
From: Lasairina at aol.com
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 19:57:39 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: SC - Yolks vs whites
One thing it does is give the whites some body...if you have ever tried to
make an egg white omlete, or just scrambled egg whites, they come out a bit
like styrafoam. Absolutely no body. But adding just one yolk to 3 or 4
whites seems to work okay.
Lassar Fhina
From: Mark Schuldenfrei <schuldy at abel.MATH.HARVARD.EDU>
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 14:52:48 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: SC - Yolks vs whites
Pardon my ignorance, as you all have many times before, but what does
an egg yolk do (other than fat and taste) that egg white doesn't?
I'm trying to keep the fat content down as much as possible and was
wondering if substituting would effect anything seriously. I know
that the taste will be different, but what else?
Welcome to my little hell. (I follow the Ornish Heart Disease Reversal
diet, which is a fat free vegetarian diet...)
Eggs are fats, proteins and flavors, in a tidy package. The fats (and many
of the nutritional components) live in the yolk only.
As you have guessed, two whites can be substituted for a whole egg in most
recipes, without a problem. Many coronary diets will substitute a
tablespoon of poly-unsaturated fats, such as canola/rapeseed oil, for a yolk
in recipes where fats are required.
I have used many of the fat free egg substitutes in my cooking, and have
found that Egg Beaters brand tastes and cooks closest to an egg. Unspiced
and scrambled, it is a little off... but with the merest hint of spices, it
feels just like a regular egg. It is, primarily, egg whites with coloring
and some stabilizers.
Tibor (or his modern counterpart)
From: Uduido at aol.com
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 08:55:50 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: SC - eggs
<< What do you think this "draw them through a strainer" means? >>
IMO, this means exactly that. The reason being to strain out the less tasty
parts of the egg such as blood. In todays world of supermarket infertle eggs
we frequently forget or, in some case are not aware of the particularly less
desirable bits that are found floating about in fertilized eggs. Even tho' I
do not strain eggs per se, having lived on a farm for most of my life, I am
still in the habit of breaking eggs into a little dish to check for blood and
beginning embyos.
I would most certainly agree that a strained egg bears not the remotest
ressemblance to a "beaten" egg. IMHO, if we take the time to stand back and
think about the way things were before the technology of today, many
curiousities of the past become glaringly understandable.
Lord Ras
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 09:15:38 -0400
Subject: Re: SC - meringue
Mark Harris wrote:
> mar-Joshua ibn-Eleazar ha-Shalib declared today on June 14,
>
> > we know that medieval people separated
> >eggs, we know that they beat eggs (sorta -- it's usually described as
> >"draw them through a strainer")
>
> What do you think this "draw them through a strainer" means? If they
> meant to beat the egg, then it would seem much easier to beat it in
> a bowl and say so. I imagine someone pushing an egg through a strainer
> but that doesn't end up with a similar result as beating, unless I've
> got a mistaken idea of what beating an egg is supposed to do. So how
> do we get from "draw them through a strainer" to "beat the eggs"?
>
> Stefan li Rous
Well, the acts of drawing the eggs through a strainer and beating them
are only similar inasmuch as they produce a similar effect. Both break
the egg "fibers" (Goo?) up into smaller pieces and mix them together,
until reaching the point where a homogeneous mass is produced. Taking it
still further, both processes introduce tiny air bubbles into the mass,
and when enough air bubbles are introduced, the characteristics of the
eggs change, generally getting lighter in color and going from what is
clearly a foam with visible bubbles, on to a sort of cream. This works
on egg whites, on yolks, and on whole eggs, although the phenomenon is
easiest to produce in whites in most cases.
Putting it another way, take apart your "balloon" wire egg whip. Weave
those wires into a sort of basket: you know, a strainer. Fix it so that
the basket passes through the eggs (or vice versa) repeatedly, and the
phenomenon described above will usually occur, barring certain variables
like high humidity, the presence of too much fat, the wrong pH, etc.
Let's just say for practical purposes it always happens.
Probably the easiest thing to do is to try it. It works. Ideally you
want a conical sieve (called, erroneously and shockingly non-PC in the
food service industry, a "China cap"). Pour in your eggs -- whites work
best for a simple demonstration -- and use some implement like a small
1- or 2-ounce ladel like a plunger to pump the eggs through the
strainer, catching them in a bowl underneath. When the bowl is full and
the strainer empty, switch the eggs back into the strainer and repeat
the process. Depending on the variables mentioned previously, it usually
takes three or four passes to produce a meringue-like foam.
Adamantius
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 15:03:54 -0400
Subject: Re: SC - eggs
Mark Harris wrote:
> My question about how the recipe redactors get from "draw them through
> a strainer" to "beat the egg" is still unanswered. Is this a reasonable
> redaction? Why?
As I said earlier, it depends on which particular effect of "drawing the
eggs through a strainer" you are referring to. Straining them will A)
remove any bits of shell, fertilized embryos, and white stringy stuff
whose Greek-sounding name eludes me at the moment, B) aerate them to
some extent, and C) mix them to some extent. SO, effects B) and C) are
also accomplished by beating. A) generally is not. If effects B) and C)
appear to be what the original recipe's author is looking for -- if, for
instance, he says that the eggs should be drawn through a strainer til
they be chergeaunt, or stondyng, or whatever -- then it is pretty clear
that that can be accomplished with beating. Since several period recipes
specify drawing the eggs through a strainer to remove the "films" or
white threads, then I would just strain them.
A great deal of the medieval cookery game seems to require discretion.
That's why I like it ; ).
Adamantius
Lotsa discretion, no tact...
From: "Marisa Herzog" <marisa_herzog at macmail.ucsc.edu>
Date: 16 Jun 1997 12:04:14 -0700
Subject: Re: SC - eggs
<< What do you think this "draw them through a strainer" means? >>
>IMO, this means exactly that. The reason being to strain out the
>less tasty parts of the egg such as blood.
While that might be part of it, I don't believe that this is really a
practicle take. Yes, hens with a rooster produce developing eggs, but you
can't "strain" blood out- and I'll just leave that at that to not get nasty.
Breaking eggs into a separate container from the rest of the mix to check them
for bits one wouldn't want to cook with, would I am sure be explained as just
that.
Putting raw eggs through some sort of mesh would mix them together quickly
without the labor of beating, and putting cooked (say hard boiled) eggs
through a mesh would make them into a nicely mixed crumbly substance easily
mixed into whatever else.
From: Uduido at aol.com
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 23:06:02 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: SC - eggs
<< My question about how the recipe redactors get from "draw them through
a strainer" to "beat the egg" is still unanswered. Is this a reasonable
redaction? Why? >>
I do not feel that this is a reasonable redaction, personally, for the
reasons I stated before. However, by a stretch of the imagination , I suppose
one could get this impression from the resulting product of such straining.
IMHO, the straining was meant to be a practical method of removing extraneous
material, be it straw, manure, egg shell bits,or embryo, etc.
Lord Ras
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 20:09:10 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - non-chicken eggs
Mark Harris wrote:
> Where would you get duck or goose eggs? Do some groceries carry them?
Yes. Probably the best place to get them is on a farm, but I've seen
them many times in Asian markets.
> I've never had them. Are they bigger? richer? or what compared to
> chicken eggs?
Duck eggs are a bit larger than a standard jumbo hen's egg, and a goose
egg larger still, sometimes with a volume roughly equal to that of a
billiard ball. They are richer than hen's eggs, with a higher fat
content in the yolk.
> Any medieval recipes for things like turtle eggs? Or were there no
> big turtles in Europe?
There may have occasionally been some kind of sea turtles going ashore
on the Atlantic coasts, but I'm not aware of any period recipes for
them.
There IS a subtlety mentioned in one of the late-period or post-period
sources, which calls for making a giant artifical hard-boiled egg out of
a dozen hen's eggs. That's about the closest I can think of, offhand. If
I remember correctly, the eggs of reptiles have no albumen in them, so
there is no "white" to speak of. If you boil an alligator egg, I
understand that the yolk cooks as you might expect, but the clear liquid
remains just that.
Adamantius
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 20:37:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gretchen M Beck <grm+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: SC - non-chicken eggs
Excerpts from internet.listserv.sca-cooks: 21-Aug-97 Re: SC -
non-chicken eggs by Philip & Susan Troy at asan
> There IS a subtlety mentioned in one of the late-period or post-period
> sources, which calls for making a giant artifical hard-boiled egg out of
> a dozen hen's eggs. That's about the closest I can think of, offhand. If
> I remember correctly, the eggs of reptiles have no albumen in them, so
> there is no "white" to speak of. If you boil an alligator egg, I
> understand that the yolk cooks as you might expect, but the clear liquid
> remains just that.
I believe it's the Book of Good Spice (whose German Name I don't
remember at the moment), so end of the 15th C.
toodles, margaret
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 23:00:27 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - non-chicken eggs
Gretchen M Beck wrote:
> > There IS a subtlety mentioned in one of the late-period or post-period
> > sources, which calls for making a giant artifical hard-boiled egg out of
> > a dozen hen's eggs.
> I believe it's the Book of Good Spice (whose German Name I don't
> remember at the moment), so end of the 15th C.
That would be Das Buoch Von Guter Speiss you're thinking of, but I could
swear this was a late 16th- or early 17th-century English source. I'll
have to check on this. I think it's the Second Part of the Good
Housewife's Jewell.
Adamantius
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 05:59:14 EDT
From: tuckers323 at juno.com (Carla S. Tucker)
Subject: Re: SC - non-chicken eggs
On Thu, 21 Aug 1997 20:09:10 -0400 Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
writes:
>Mark Harris wrote:
>> I've never had them. Are they bigger? richer? or what compared to
>> chicken eggs?
>
>Duck eggs are a bit larger than a standard jumbo hen's egg, and a goose
>egg larger still, sometimes with a volume roughly equal to that of a
>billiard ball. They are richer than hen's eggs, with a higher fat
>content in the yolk.
My grandmother who ate goose eggs frequently as a child on a farm
in Canada claims they are bitter and leave an unpleasant aftertaste.
Could it be that whatever they fed the birds made their eggs taste bad?
Carla
tuckers323 at juno.com
From: yumitori at marsweb.com (Ron Martino Jr)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 20:25:05 -0600
Subject: Re: SC - eggs
> << My question about how the recipe redactors get from "draw them through
> a strainer" to "beat the egg" is still unanswered. Is this a reasonable
> redaction? Why? >>
>
> I do not feel that this is a reasonable redaction, personally, for the
> reasons I stated before. However, by a stretch of the imagination , I suppose
> one could get this impression from the resulting product of such straining.
> IMHO, the straining was meant to be a practical method of removing extraneous
> material, be it straw, manure, egg shell bits,or embryo, etc.
>
> Lord Ras
My (farm-raised) two cents - between washing the eggs and using a
separate bowl to crack them into, you can deal most every problem except
egg shells. That doesn't seem to be a sufficent reason for the common
directive to strain the eggs...
Yumitori
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 22:49:19 -0800
From: charding at nwlink.com (Cathy Harding)
Subject: Re: SC - Small Feasts
>Maeve said:
>>The day of the contest, I cooked leeks in almond milk, a dish of beans and
>>peas( peas cooked in ale and caraway), hard boiled quails eggs, Hens of
>>greece, ruzzge cakes and a clever dish of plums.