eggs-msg – 1/17/08
Medieval eggs. Recipes. Substitutions for eggs in medieval recipes.
NOTE: See also the files: egg-storage-msg, eggs-stuffed-msg, fowls-a-birds-msg, chicken-msg, birds-recipes-msg, breakfast-msg, frittours-msg, Scotch-Eggs-msg, caviar-msg.
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NOTICE -
This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.
This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org
I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.
The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.
Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).
Thank you,
Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous
Stefan at florilegium.org
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From: allilyn at juno.com (LYN M PARKINSON)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 15:03:41 EDT
Subject: SC - Re: Arme Ritter
The name comes from modern German cookbooks, but the practice was taught
me by my son's German in-laws. The families became close--that's how the
kids met and married. They are supportive of my desire to trace down the
history of some of the foods, and to find and translate receiptes. They
use thick, handcut slices of good bread, and dip them into finely grated
crumbs before frying them. They are served with fried apple slices, or
with the apfelmuss. (That double s should be a German character) They
are more likely to sprinkle with cinnamon and sugar before serving, I
frequently put nutmeg into the egg mixture, because that's the way I like
it. The idea was that the poorest knights might be able to eat an
egg--stretched--but couldn't afford to kill the chicken! I suppose, if
your were a poor knight out on campaign, you could find an egg, some
bread, and whatever the local orchard had on the tree.
It can also be found in _Wie man eyn teutsches Mannsbild bey Krafften
halt_. by H. Jurgen Fahrenkamp. This is a book that's probably
something like To A King's Taste--I forget. It has modern redactions, in
German, by an author who has taken them from a variety of sources. He
doesn't give the originals. This dish he gives another name, saying it's
a fantasy name of something that was formerly known as 'Arme Ritter'.
8 Scheiben Weissbrot 8 slices white bread
1/4 l Milch 1 C. milk
3 Eier 3 eggs
Paniermehl bread crumbs
Zimt cinnamon
Zucker sugar
50 g Schmalz lard (or other frying
substance)
Dazu passt ein fruchtiger Obstsalat, (he calls for a 'fruit salad' rather
than the apple slices or apple sauce)
You could use a hot fruit compote, or any fruit that was in season.
Enjoy...
Allison
From: "Philip W. Troy" <troy at asan.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 22:02:43 -0400
Subject: Re: SC - Yolks vs whites
linneah at erols.com wrote:
> Pardon my ignorance, as you all have many times before, but what does an egg
> yolk do (other than fat and taste) that egg white doesn't? I'm trying to keep the
> fat content down as much as possible and was wondering if substituting would
> effect anything seriously. I know that the taste will be different, but what
> else?
>
> Linneah
There are some dishes in which the substitution of egg whites for whole
eggs or yolks would make a big difference.
While the yolk contains virtually all of the fat of the egg, the white
contains most of the protein. Albumen in the white tends to curdle when
cooked, so it isn't as good for things like custards as yolks or whole
eggs would be. Also, without the fat, baked goods tend to be a bit
tougher. Conversely, egg yolks generally tenderize baked goods, since
they contribute some shortening fat.
I suspect the thing to do is to find some recipes that use egg whites,
so as eliminate at least some of the less effective experimentation. Off
the top of my head, I think I recall that there are various biscuit
recipes that call for egg whites (certainly things like the white bisket
bread found in Elinor Fettiplace, which is essentially meringue, and
quite period, no matter what you may have read). Ditto macaroons. Also the
cheesecake called sambucade in the Forme of Cury uses egg whites and a
curd cheese, which could easily be of the low-fat variety.
I'm sure there are several others, but would have to check into this a
bit deeper.
Happy hunting!
Adamantius
From: Uduido at aol.com
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 09:15:27 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: SC - Yolks and Copyright
<< what does an egg yolk do (other than fat and taste) that egg white doesn't? >>
Egg yolks tend to thicken the recipes they are used in while egg whites (e.g.
cakes, souffles ) add a "lightening" effect. Recipes which specifically call
for the use of yolks (e.g. sauces, soups) cannot (and , indeed, should not)
be substituted.
Lord Ras (Uduido at aol.com)
From: Lasairina at aol.com
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 19:57:39 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: SC - Yolks vs whites
One thing it does is give the whites some body...if you have ever tried to
make an egg white omlete, or just scrambled egg whites, they come out a bit
like styrafoam. Absolutely no body. But adding just one yolk to 3 or 4
whites seems to work okay.
Lassar Fhina
From: Mark Schuldenfrei <schuldy at abel.MATH.HARVARD.EDU>
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 14:52:48 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: SC - Yolks vs whites
Pardon my ignorance, as you all have many times before, but what does
an egg yolk do (other than fat and taste) that egg white doesn't?
I'm trying to keep the fat content down as much as possible and was
wondering if substituting would effect anything seriously. I know
that the taste will be different, but what else?
Welcome to my little hell. (I follow the Ornish Heart Disease Reversal
diet, which is a fat free vegetarian diet...)
Eggs are fats, proteins and flavors, in a tidy package. The fats (and many
of the nutritional components) live in the yolk only.
As you have guessed, two whites can be substituted for a whole egg in most
recipes, without a problem. Many coronary diets will substitute a
tablespoon of poly-unsaturated fats, such as canola/rapeseed oil, for a yolk
in recipes where fats are required.
I have used many of the fat free egg substitutes in my cooking, and have
found that Egg Beaters brand tastes and cooks closest to an egg. Unspiced
and scrambled, it is a little off... but with the merest hint of spices, it
feels just like a regular egg. It is, primarily, egg whites with coloring
and some stabilizers.
Tibor (or his modern counterpart)
From: Uduido at aol.com
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 08:55:50 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: SC - eggs
<< What do you think this "draw them through a strainer" means? >>
IMO, this means exactly that. The reason being to strain out the less tasty
parts of the egg such as blood. In todays world of supermarket infertle eggs
we frequently forget or, in some case are not aware of the particularly less
desirable bits that are found floating about in fertilized eggs. Even tho' I
do not strain eggs per se, having lived on a farm for most of my life, I am
still in the habit of breaking eggs into a little dish to check for blood and
beginning embyos.
I would most certainly agree that a strained egg bears not the remotest
ressemblance to a "beaten" egg. IMHO, if we take the time to stand back and
think about the way things were before the technology of today, many
curiousities of the past become glaringly understandable.
Lord Ras
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 09:15:38 -0400
Subject: Re: SC - meringue
Mark Harris wrote:
> mar-Joshua ibn-Eleazar ha-Shalib declared today on June 14,
>
> > we know that medieval people separated
> >eggs, we know that they beat eggs (sorta -- it's usually described as
> >"draw them through a strainer")
>
> What do you think this "draw them through a strainer" means? If they
> meant to beat the egg, then it would seem much easier to beat it in
> a bowl and say so. I imagine someone pushing an egg through a strainer
> but that doesn't end up with a similar result as beating, unless I've
> got a mistaken idea of what beating an egg is supposed to do. So how
> do we get from "draw them through a strainer" to "beat the eggs"?
>
> Stefan li Rous
Well, the acts of drawing the eggs through a strainer and beating them
are only similar inasmuch as they produce a similar effect. Both break
the egg "fibers" (Goo?) up into smaller pieces and mix them together,
until reaching the point where a homogeneous mass is produced. Taking it
still further, both processes introduce tiny air bubbles into the mass,
and when enough air bubbles are introduced, the characteristics of the
eggs change, generally getting lighter in color and going from what is
clearly a foam with visible bubbles, on to a sort of cream. This works
on egg whites, on yolks, and on whole eggs, although the phenomenon is
easiest to produce in whites in most cases.
Putting it another way, take apart your "balloon" wire egg whip. Weave
those wires into a sort of basket: you know, a strainer. Fix it so that
the basket passes through the eggs (or vice versa) repeatedly, and the
phenomenon described above will usually occur, barring certain variables
like high humidity, the presence of too much fat, the wrong pH, etc.
Let's just say for practical purposes it always happens.
Probably the easiest thing to do is to try it. It works. Ideally you
want a conical sieve (called, erroneously and shockingly non-PC in the
food service industry, a "China cap"). Pour in your eggs -- whites work
best for a simple demonstration -- and use some implement like a small
1- or 2-ounce ladel like a plunger to pump the eggs through the
strainer, catching them in a bowl underneath. When the bowl is full and
the strainer empty, switch the eggs back into the strainer and repeat
the process. Depending on the variables mentioned previously, it usually
takes three or four passes to produce a meringue-like foam.
Adamantius
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 15:03:54 -0400
Subject: Re: SC - eggs
Mark Harris wrote:
> My question about how the recipe redactors get from "draw them through
> a strainer" to "beat the egg" is still unanswered. Is this a reasonable
> redaction? Why?
As I said earlier, it depends on which particular effect of "drawing the
eggs through a strainer" you are referring to. Straining them will A)
remove any bits of shell, fertilized embryos, and white stringy stuff
whose Greek-sounding name eludes me at the moment, B) aerate them to
some extent, and C) mix them to some extent. SO, effects B) and C) are
also accomplished by beating. A) generally is not. If effects B) and C)
appear to be what the original recipe's author is looking for -- if, for
instance, he says that the eggs should be drawn through a strainer til
they be chergeaunt, or stondyng, or whatever -- then it is pretty clear
that that can be accomplished with beating. Since several period recipes
specify drawing the eggs through a strainer to remove the "films" or
white threads, then I would just strain them.
A great deal of the medieval cookery game seems to require discretion.
That's why I like it ; ).
Adamantius
Lotsa discretion, no tact...
From: "Marisa Herzog" <marisa_herzog at macmail.ucsc.edu>
Date: 16 Jun 1997 12:04:14 -0700
Subject: Re: SC - eggs
<< What do you think this "draw them through a strainer" means? >>
>IMO, this means exactly that. The reason being to strain out the
>less tasty parts of the egg such as blood.
While that might be part of it, I don't believe that this is really a
practicle take. Yes, hens with a rooster produce developing eggs, but you
can't "strain" blood out- and I'll just leave that at that to not get nasty.
Breaking eggs into a separate container from the rest of the mix to check them
for bits one wouldn't want to cook with, would I am sure be explained as just
that.
Putting raw eggs through some sort of mesh would mix them together quickly
without the labor of beating, and putting cooked (say hard boiled) eggs
through a mesh would make them into a nicely mixed crumbly substance easily
mixed into whatever else.
From: Uduido at aol.com
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 23:06:02 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: SC - eggs
<< My question about how the recipe redactors get from "draw them through
a strainer" to "beat the egg" is still unanswered. Is this a reasonable
redaction? Why? >>
I do not feel that this is a reasonable redaction, personally, for the
reasons I stated before. However, by a stretch of the imagination , I suppose
one could get this impression from the resulting product of such straining.
IMHO, the straining was meant to be a practical method of removing extraneous
material, be it straw, manure, egg shell bits,or embryo, etc.
Lord Ras
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 20:09:10 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - non-chicken eggs
Mark Harris wrote:
> Where would you get duck or goose eggs? Do some groceries carry them?
Yes. Probably the best place to get them is on a farm, but I've seen
them many times in Asian markets.
> I've never had them. Are they bigger? richer? or what compared to
> chicken eggs?
Duck eggs are a bit larger than a standard jumbo hen's egg, and a goose
egg larger still, sometimes with a volume roughly equal to that of a
billiard ball. They are richer than hen's eggs, with a higher fat
content in the yolk.
> Any medieval recipes for things like turtle eggs? Or were there no
> big turtles in Europe?
There may have occasionally been some kind of sea turtles going ashore
on the Atlantic coasts, but I'm not aware of any period recipes for
them.
There IS a subtlety mentioned in one of the late-period or post-period
sources, which calls for making a giant artifical hard-boiled egg out of
a dozen hen's eggs. That's about the closest I can think of, offhand. If
I remember correctly, the eggs of reptiles have no albumen in them, so
there is no "white" to speak of. If you boil an alligator egg, I
understand that the yolk cooks as you might expect, but the clear liquid
remains just that.
Adamantius
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 20:37:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gretchen M Beck <grm+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: SC - non-chicken eggs
Excerpts from internet.listserv.sca-cooks: 21-Aug-97 Re: SC -
non-chicken eggs by Philip & Susan Troy at asan
> There IS a subtlety mentioned in one of the late-period or post-period
> sources, which calls for making a giant artifical hard-boiled egg out of
> a dozen hen's eggs. That's about the closest I can think of, offhand. If
> I remember correctly, the eggs of reptiles have no albumen in them, so
> there is no "white" to speak of. If you boil an alligator egg, I
> understand that the yolk cooks as you might expect, but the clear liquid
> remains just that.
I believe it's the Book of Good Spice (whose German Name I don't
remember at the moment), so end of the 15th C.
toodles, margaret
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 23:00:27 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - non-chicken eggs
Gretchen M Beck wrote:
> > There IS a subtlety mentioned in one of the late-period or post-period
> > sources, which calls for making a giant artifical hard-boiled egg out of
> > a dozen hen's eggs.
> I believe it's the Book of Good Spice (whose German Name I don't
> remember at the moment), so end of the 15th C.
That would be Das Buoch Von Guter Speiss you're thinking of, but I could
swear this was a late 16th- or early 17th-century English source. I'll
have to check on this. I think it's the Second Part of the Good
Housewife's Jewell.
Adamantius
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 05:59:14 EDT
From: tuckers323 at juno.com (Carla S. Tucker)
Subject: Re: SC - non-chicken eggs
On Thu, 21 Aug 1997 20:09:10 -0400 Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
writes:
>Mark Harris wrote:
>> I've never had them. Are they bigger? richer? or what compared to
>> chicken eggs?
>
>Duck eggs are a bit larger than a standard jumbo hen's egg, and a goose
>egg larger still, sometimes with a volume roughly equal to that of a
>billiard ball. They are richer than hen's eggs, with a higher fat
>content in the yolk.
My grandmother who ate goose eggs frequently as a child on a farm
in Canada claims they are bitter and leave an unpleasant aftertaste.
Could it be that whatever they fed the birds made their eggs taste bad?
Carla
tuckers323 at juno.com
From: yumitori at marsweb.com (Ron Martino Jr)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 20:25:05 -0600
Subject: Re: SC - eggs
> << My question about how the recipe redactors get from "draw them through
> a strainer" to "beat the egg" is still unanswered. Is this a reasonable
> redaction? Why? >>
>
> I do not feel that this is a reasonable redaction, personally, for the
> reasons I stated before. However, by a stretch of the imagination , I suppose
> one could get this impression from the resulting product of such straining.
> IMHO, the straining was meant to be a practical method of removing extraneous
> material, be it straw, manure, egg shell bits,or embryo, etc.
>
> Lord Ras
My (farm-raised) two cents - between washing the eggs and using a
separate bowl to crack them into, you can deal most every problem except
egg shells. That doesn't seem to be a sufficent reason for the common
directive to strain the eggs...
Yumitori
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 22:49:19 -0800
From: charding at nwlink.com (Cathy Harding)
Subject: Re: SC - Small Feasts
>Maeve said:
>>The day of the contest, I cooked leeks in almond milk, a dish of beans and
>>peas( peas cooked in ale and caraway), hard boiled quails eggs, Hens of
>>greece, ruzzge cakes and a clever dish of plums.
>
>Where did you get quails eggs? Are these something that you find in your
>grocery store? I assume you hard boil them like chicken eggs. Do they
>taste different or are they just smaller or colored differently?
A friend found them in the food coop in Eugene on the way back from an
event in southern Oregon. I just boiled them like chicken eggs. they
taste very good, better than chicken eggs. They are much smaller and the
shells are mottled. Inside they look much like chicken eggs.
>What are Hens of greece? recipe?
It is a recipe from ein guter spise. I forget which one. I took eggs
beaten up with spices (caraway and ginger come to mind) and put this in the
bottom of a greased springform pan. Then I took bread (w/o crusts) and
dipped in milk and them eggs and them semmel (which I took to mean semolina
- - I used semolina flour) and fried them, them placed that in the egg
mixture, then chopped up chicken which had been roasted with bacon, then
apple rounds also fried and kept layering till the pan was full. I put an
oven proof pie pan with pie weights on the top to weigh it down and then
baked till the egg was cooked. Turn it out and serve with a wine ginger
sauce. It was good.
> Stefan li Rous
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 12:01:01 -0700
From: kat <kat at kagan.com>
Subject: SC - re: eggs
brid asks:
> along the lines of the versions of pickled eggs and tea eggs:
> Isn't there a recipe somewhere that calls for hardboiling eggs over a very low
> heat for a number of hours in a bath of onion broth or something of the like-
> for the flavor as well as the color?
Yes! It's a Jewish recipe; I helped Merrin (Na'Arah) make them for the Feast of Jewish Holidays. (I think I'm STILL full from all that food... )
You can do them on stovetop or in the oven; we used the oven at about 250*, overnight in a turkey roaster. One hundred fifty eggs, the skin of a half dozen onions, cover with water, done the next morning. Gorgeous things...
- kat
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 23:25:53 -0400
From: Ceridwen <ceridwen at commnections.com>
Subject: Re: SC - eggs
> Do quail eggs really taste that much differnet from chicken eggs? If
> not, they sound like a lot more work. For that matter, do eggs from
> chickens, geese, quail, ducks etc taste different, if they are all
> farm raised? I have heard that there is a differance between farm-
> raised and free-range chickens but I'm asking about just farm-raised
> eggs since that is likely to be all I'm going to be able to get.
>
> Stefan li Rous
Quail eggs are somewhat different than chicken eggs, being slightly
milder and creamier in texture. The difference would only be important
to me if the recipe featured the eggs as flavoring. They are a lot more
work, as there are about 8 quail eggs to 1 chicken egg.
The first week that I got eggs from my quail, I made fried quail
eggs and silver dollar pancakes for Saturday brunch... about a dozen
each was a good serving size. They are just too cute!
Free range chicken eggs are somewhat stronger flavored and have a
yellower yolk due to the variations in diet, but there is no discernible
difference in nutritional value. Duck and goose eggs are much different,
with their own flavors, not easily described..... I can remember their
tastes, even after 25 years, but simply can't put it into words.
Ceridwen
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 09:11:53 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - eggs
Mark Harris wrote:
> Do quail eggs really taste that much differnet from chicken eggs? If
> not, they sound like a lot more work.
As I put on my Devil's advocate hat: my experience has been that they
taste almost identical to hen's eggs. They are also somewhat more work,
since their size affects the surface-area:mass ratio, meaning more
square inches of shell per ounce of egg. So, six ounces of quail eggs
will have more shell to remove than six ounces of hen's eggs. That being
said, they do have a major advantage for the type of thing we use them
for: their appearance and size. This isn't something I would ever say
lightly, but they do have major cute factor at work. Normally I don't
do cute food. I am more proud of a fine sauce than of any number of
subtleties I have made, so normally something like the cute factor of a
little egg wouldn't matter to me. But quail eggs are cool nonetheless.
> For that matter, do eggs from
> chickens, geese, quail, ducks etc taste different, if they are all
> farm raised? I have heard that there is a differance between farm-
> raised and free-range chickens but I'm asking about just farm-raised
> eggs since that is likely to be all I'm going to be able to get.
Hen's eggs do, however, taste different from the eggs of ducks and
geese. Never tasted a turkey egg, so I wouldn't be able to address that
one, but duck and goose eggs, either just because they are different
birds from chickens, or perhaps because they are waterfowl, are much
richer than hen's eggs, with a slight tang of sulfur to the yolk, which
means it's a bad move to seriously overcook them, or to eat them when
they aren't fresh. Mrs. Beeton swears by them for custards,though, and a
couple of New York pastry chefs have been getting them in for that
purpose, as a matter of fact. See? You CAN learn something from old
cookbooks!
Adamantius
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 08:27:52 EDT
From: "Chanda Shaffer" <leanche at hotmail.com>
Subject: Pickled egg recipes
>RUBY EGGS
> Hard boil & peel about a dozen eggs. Open 2 cans of pickled, sliced
>beets. Heat liquid from beets with dill, garlic, peppercorns, bayleaf,
<snip>
>Angelique
Mi'lady Angelique,
Your pickeled eggs sound wonderful. I have never tried them with dill
and garlic. I will try it in the next batch I make.
I make a similar recipe but I make my own pickling liquid. I use
equal amounts of regular canned sliced beets-pour in the juice, sugar
and cider vinegar. heat in a saucepan with a sliced red onion and a
handful of whole cloves and a cinnamon stick. In a gallon glass jar,
layer the beets and peeled hard boiled eggs. Pour the hot liquid over
the eggs and cover. keep in the fridge for a few days to let the
liquid seep into the eggs.
A gallon sized jar will hold about 1 1/2 doz. eggs and three cans of
beets with pickling liquid.
BTW if the eggs aren't gone in about a week they get kind of rubbery but
will still make wonderful deviled eggs
Ivy~
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 10:30:52 -0400
From: Woeller D <angeliq1 at erols.com>
Subject: Re: SC - eggs
My favorite Oriental market didn't have fresh quail eggs. The owner
suggested trying the canned variety that she said are commonly
available, even when fresh aren't. There were about 30, hardboiled,
peeled eggs in a can, for $1.39. They come packed in either water or
'brine', tasting almost identical (like the very slight saltiness of the
brined ones better) but both were delicious. I don't know how this cost
measures up to fresh, but I didn't have to cook or peel them, so they
definately fit my no-hassle prerequisite. I'm making ruby eggs with a
batch, and a can is going into the 'just in case basket', too.
Angelique
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 11:19:23 -0800
From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Subject: SC - Re: eggs
Brid wrote:
(imagining somehow putting together all the various egg recipes and subtilties
>into one feast- tho' no one would probably ever want to see another egg
>eggain)
We have come across two different stuffed egg recipes: one Italian, one
Andalusian. You hard-boil eggs, cut in half, take out the yolk and mix
with stuff, refill and fasten back together. We haven't got a final
worked-up version for either but I can post the original recipes if anyone
is interested.
Elizabeth/Betty Cook
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 12:25:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gretchen M Beck <grm+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: SC - Re: eggs
Excerpts from internet.listserv.sca-cooks: 21-Oct-97 SC - Re: eggs david
friedman at best.com (804*)
> We have come across two different stuffed egg recipes: one Italian, one
> Andalusian. You hard-boil eggs, cut in half, take out the yolk and mix
> with stuff, refill and fasten back together. We haven't got a final
> worked-up version for either but I can post the original recipes if anyone
> is interested.
There is a like recipe in one of of the Elizabethan Cookbooks--The Good
Huswifes Jewel, I think. I served them at a feast and they were quite
well received.
toodles, margaret
Gretchen Beck
Computing Services
Carnegie Mellon University
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 15:49:32 -0800
From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Subject: SC - Re: eggs
The Making of Stuffed Eggs
Andalusian p. A-24
Take as many eggs as you like, and boil them whole in hot water; put them
in cold water and split them in half with a thread. Take the yolks aside
and pound cilantro and put in onion juice, pepper and coriander, and beat
all this together with murri, oil and salt and knead the yolks with this
until it forms a dough. Then stuff the whites with this and fasten it
together, insert a small stick into each egg, and sprinkle them with
pepper, God willing.
Stuffed eggs
Platina book 9
Cook fresh eggs for a long time so that they are hard, then take the egg
from the shell and split it through the middle, so as not to lose any of
the white. After you have taken out the yolk, grind up part of it with
good cheese, aged as well as fresh, and raisins; save the other part to
color the dish. Likewise add a little finely chopped parsley, marjoram and
mint. There are those who also put in two or more egg whites, along with
some spices. With this mixture fill the whites of the eggs and when they
are stuffed, fry them over a gentle flame, in oil. When they are fried,
make a sauce from the rest of the yolks and raisins ground together, and
when you have moistened them in verjuice and must, add ginger, clove, and
cinnamon and pour over the eggs and let them boil a little together.
The first is out of the anonymous 13th c. Andalusian cookbook (tr. Charles
Perry) in Cariadoc's cookbook collection v. 2, the second from Platina's
_De Honesta Voluptate_, 1475.
Elizabeth/Betty Cook
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 21:23:05 -0800
From: "Anne-Marie Rousseau" <acrouss at gte.net>
Subject: Re: SC - quail eggs
Hi all from Anne-Marie
Meadhbh asks about late period uses for quail eggs.
My favorite type of egg involved fingerfood is from la Varenne, 1651,
French. Hardboiled eggs are stuffed with a mixture of their own yolks,
butter, vinegar and sauteed herbs. Deviled Eggs a la 17th century. There is
a similar recipe in Epilario including a dressing of vinegar, etc.
If you don't want to fuss (ie want to spend your energies on other things),
I've been known to slice them in half, and sprinkle with a good quality
dark balsamic vinegar. Looks good, tastes great. No documentation, alas,
but there you go.
The reconstruction for the Stuffed Eggs....oh and if you use my recipe,
please let me know. I'm sure to give permission, I just like the grins I
get from knowing my food is being eaten thousands of miles away! :) Sorry,
but my cut and paste doesnÕt work so good, so the citation footnotes didn't
make it into this message. Let me know if you need them.
Enjoy!
STUFFED EGGS: This version tastes very similar to the familiar modern
deviled egg (sans paprika, of course). There is an earlier version in
Epilario , but la Varenne updates it by omitting the very medieval sauce of
vinegar and spices and using instead fresh herbs to flavor. These eggs
travel well and are an easy and elegant potluck or tourney dish. Prepare
the egg yolks and put into a zip lock bag, and put the halved egg whites
into another. When you're ready to serve, snip off one corner of the bag
with the yolk stuffing in it and fill the egg halves by squeezing the
plastic bag like a pastry bag.
1. Eggs farced [la Varenne #1 p294]
Take sorrell, alone if you will, or with other herbs, wash and swing them,
then mince them very small, and put between two dishes with fresh butter,
or passe them in the panne; after they are passed, soak and season them;
after your farce is sod, take some hard eggs, cut them into halfs, a
crosse, or in length, and take out the yolks, and mince them with your
farce, and after all is well mixed, stew them over the fire, and put to it
a little nutmeg, and serve garnished with the whites of your eggs which you
may make brown in the pan with brown butter.
Our version:
2T butter
1 T dill, minced
6 hardboiled eggs
2 green onions, minced
1 pinch salt
1 tsp fresh savory, minced
1 tsp fresh sorrell, minced
1 T balsamic vinegar
pinch nutmeg
Cut eggs in half longwise, and remove yolk. Sautee savory, sorell, green
onion and dill in 1 T of the butter. Add the vinegar, salt, nutmeg and rest
of the butter. Mix the egg yolks with the sauteed herb stuff, and stir over
low heat till smooth and thick. Fill the egg white halves and serve. If you
wish, you may fry the egg white halves in brown butter before filling, but
we found that this makes them rubbery.
Makes 12 filled egg halves, with some leftover stuffing goop. Oh darn.
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 12:53:04 EST
From: DianaFiona at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Scrambled Eggs
<<
I find it pretty hard to imagine that scrambled eggs were not period. Where
did you run across this bit of info? Since scrambled eggs are my very favorite
form of eggs and so basic in construction, I had automatically tho't them
"period". OTOH, Both omelettes and French toast , which are more elaborite
ways of serving eggs , are both documentably period.
Would it be possible for anyone who has information either proving or
disproving the use of scrambled eggs in the MA please post the information and
source material to me? Thanks in advance.
Ras
============================================================ >>
For what it's worth, I just ran across a recipe in Cariadoc's Miscellany
that I marked to show to the breakfast cook for our next event that might be
interpeted as scrambled eggs or as an omlette, depending on your mood........
It doesn't seem to be in the on-line version, just the hard copy (7th edition)
that a friend picked up for me at Pennsic last year.
SAWGEAT (Curye on Inglysch p. 135 [Form of Cury no. 169])
Take sawge; grynde it and temper it vp with ayren. Take a sausege & kerf
hym to gobetes, cast it in a possynet, and do [th]erwi[th] grece & frye it.
Whan it is fryed ynowgh, cast [th]erto sawge with ayren; make it not hard.
Cast [th]erto powdour douce & messe it forth. If it be in ymbre day; take
sauge, buttur, & ayren, and lat stonde wel by [th]e sauge, and serue forth.
I don't do eggy things often, and tend to preffer quiche when I do, but
this looked pretty good to my eyes. Of course, being a big fan of strong herbs
doesn't hurt--I'd probably put more sage in than anyone else could stand! ;-)
A question, though, for those who know more about period sausage than I do;
would they have been likely to have the soft, fresh sausages that we usually
cook for breakfast, or would this more likely have been a harder, smoked
sausage? (Which is what the "kerf hym to gobetes" suggested to me.)
As to the original question, the recipe doesn't say how to cook the eggs
other than not to let them get too hard, so to my mind it could be dealt with
as an omlette or scrambled eggs as the cook chose. Not absolute documentation,
Ras, but at least not forbiding the practice, either........... ;-)
Ldy Diana
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:19:07 -0400
From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow)
Subject: Re: SC - Scrambled Eggs
Hello! I've got 2 recipes at hand - Meselade and Tansey (each listed in
both Harleian MS 279 and 4016):
Harleian MS. 279 - Leche Vyaundez
xliiij. Meselade. Take Eyroun, [th]e [3]olkys an [th]e whyte to-gedere, &
draw hem [th]orw a straynoure; & [th]an take a litil Botere, & caste in a
fayre frying panne; & whan [th]e boter is hot, take [th]e drawyn Eyroun, &
caste [th]er-to; [th]an take a Sawcere, an gadre [th]e Eyroun to-gedere in
[th]e panne, as it were [th]e brede of a pewter dysshe; & [th]an take fayre
pece[3] of Brede, [th]e mountance of a mosselle of Brede, vppe-on [th]e
Eyroun, & turne [th]an [thy] brede downward in [th]e panne; [th]anne take
it of [th]e panne, & caste fayre whyte Sugre [th]er-to, & serue forth; an
to euery good meslade take a [th]owsand Eyroun or mo.
Harleian MS. 4016
92 Tansey. Take faire Tansey, and grinde it in a morter; And take eyren,
yolkes and white, And drawe hem thorgh a streynour, and streyne also [th]e
Iuse of [th]e Tansey thorgh a streynour; and medle the egges and the Iuse
togidre; And take faire grece, and cast hit in a pan, and sette ouer [th]e
fyre til hit mylte; and caste [th]e stuffe thereon, and gader hit togidre
with a sawcer or a dissh, as [th]ou wilt haue hit more or lasse; And turne
hit in [th]e panne onys or twies, And so serue it forth hote, yleched.
Cindy/Sincgiefu
renfrow at skylands.net
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:50:53 -0500 (EST)
From: Gretchen M Beck <grm+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: SC - Scrambled Eggs
There is also a recipe in the 2 15th century cookery books called
Hanony, which is a fairly standard recipe for an omelet.
toodles, margaret
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 16:55:05 -0500
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: SC - Scrambled eggs not period?
> Would it be possible for anyone who has information either proving or
> disproving the use of scrambled eggs in the MA please post the information and
> source material to me? Thanks in advance.
>
> Ras
Sorry to write and run, but I couldn't pass this one up. See "Curye On
Inglysch" for recipes for hanoney and sawgeat, being scrambled eggs with
fried onions, and sage-flavored scrambled eggs with fried smoked
sausage, respectively. Two of my favorite simple period dishes.
Adamantius
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 18:06:54 -0800
From: "Anne-Marie Rousseau" <acrouss at gte.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Fw: [Mid] Is camping without a cooler out of period?
I remember from my misspent youth an article (in Mother Earth News? Can't
remember) where they did side by sides on eggs. Washed some, froze some,
chilled some, left some at room temp. The chilled, UNWASHED eggs lasted the
longest, the room temp unwashed eggs were second. Freezing eggs is nasty, I
guess (unless you dont care what they look like, ie mix 'em up first).
Eggs are by nature sterile (which is why in the old days we used them to
grow viral cultures, etc). Its the outside of the egg that isnt.
Coming out of the chicken, the egg is coated with a thin layer of protein
that renders the shell impermiable to air (dont think about it too hard,
its kinda nasty). Makes sense...after laying, the egg isnÕt refrigerated and
yet doesnÕt spoil, right? It stays fresh enough to grow a baby chicken, in
fact.
The down side of this is that unwashed eggs will often have
other......materials....on them, and these are rife with cooties,
especially in this day and age of antibiotic resistant nasty bacteria.
I think I'd go ahead and wash them, so as not to contaminate everything in
site with chicken feces, but realize that you might not be getting the
freshest eggs in town after a week or so. Please realize, too, that this
means only that your egg may be a bit dried out. That shell is pretty much
impervious to bacteria, so unless the integrity of the shell is breached in
some way (and believe me, you'll know it!!!) you should be fine.
- --AM, who wouldnÕt refridgerate her eggs, except that the door has those
neat egg shaped holes in it...
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 17:11:06 EDT
From: LrdRas <LrdRas at aol.com>
Subject: SC - Egg peeling tip o' the day
CorwynWdwd at aol.com writes:
<< Peeling fresh eggs that have been hard boiled (The way we usually carry them
to events) is an exercise in frustration. >>
To avoid pulling a hard boiled egg apart the following steps will help. First
pierce the large end of the egg with a needle. Place eggs in cold tap water.
Add 1 tblsp salt to water. Bring to a boil. Reduce heat to simmer and boil
for the appropriate length of time. IMMEDIATELY remove eggs from heat. Pour
off hot water. Slightly crack each egg with the round side of a spoon.
IMMEDIATELY cover with COLD water and leave until room temperature. Always
start peeling from the BIG end of the egg. The shell should literally slip off
easily with little or no clinging. This works with fresh or older eggs
although I would not generally use fresh eggs for hard boiling unless it were
absolutely necessary.
Ras
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 10:47:01 -0400
From: Stephanie Rothgeb <onebyte at 99main.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Fw: [Mid] So you wanna peel hard boiled eggs
Don't let them sit for a week before boiling them, boil them with a
lot of salt. Trust me works great, the shells just peel away without
effort or small cracks.
Beileag
PS my daughter learned it in cooking school.
Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 12:51:58 -0700
From: cassie <cassie at sally.nas.nasa.gov>
Subject: e: SC -Gentle education, was Help thinking up a class...
<snip>
So here is my documentation on the Andalusian Stuffed Eggs:
- --
Cassandra Baldassano cassie at nas.nasa.gov
Sterling Software (650) 604-6007 or (800) 331-8737 x6007
Supporting: M/S 258-6
Systems Control NASA Ames Research Center
Database Administration Moffett Field, CA 94305-1000
***********************************************************************
Stuffed Eggs
This recipe for stuffed Eggs comes from An Anonymous Andalusian Cookbook of the
Thirteenth Century, which has only the english translation of the recipes;. They taste very similar to a deviled egg. I entered this recipe for the Silver Spoon, Spring Investiture A.S. XXXII. The amount of herbs and spices I use make this recipe mild, increase these ingredients according to your own taste.
Translation of Original Recipe:
Take as many eggs as you like, and boil them whole in hot water; put them in cold water and split them in half with a thread. Take the yolks aside and pound cilantro and put in onion juice, pepper and coriander, and beat all this together with Murri, oil and salt and knead the yolks with this until it forms a dough. Then stuff the whites with this and fasten it together, insert a small stick into each egg, and sprinkle them with pepper, God Willing.
Redaction:
8 eggs
1/4 tsp. cilantro
2 tsp. onion juice
1/8 tsp. pepper
1/4 tsp. Murri and pinch of salt
or 1/4 tsp. salt
2.5 Tbs. oil
Cook eggs, split and remove yolks. Combine yolks with remaining ingredients. Stuff egg white with yolk mixture. Place egg whites together, secure with toothpick, sprinkle with pepper.
Special Notes:
Although the original recipe give no number of eggs to cook, I choose to redact the recipe for 8 eggs because the measurements for the other ingredients are common.
Murri is a salty sauce that is brewed, not unlike soy sauce or Worcestershire sauce. From the recipes noted in the An Anonymous Andalusian Cookbook of the 13th Century, it appears that Murri is nearly as commonly used as soy sauce is in Chinese cuisine. A quick recipe for Murri can be found in A Miscelleny (6th edition), by David Friedman and Elizabeth Cook. This recipe calls for quinces, which are sometimes difficult to find depending on the time of year. If you have a chance to make murri, you should have plenty of it for several other recipes. However, if you are not able are inclined to make the murri, I recommend to substitute a 1/4 tsp. salt for the 1/4 tsp. Murri and pinch of salt. I don't
find the substitution detracts from the dish due to the strong flavors of the onion juice and cilantro.
Source: An Anonymous Andalusian Cookbook of the 13th Century, a translation by
Charles Perry found in A Collection of Medieval and Renaissance Recipes, edited by David Friedman and Elisabeth Cook.
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 22:44:40 -0700
From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Subject: Re: e: SC -Gentle education, was Help thinking up a class...
At 12:51 PM -0700 5/6/98, cassie wrote:
>Stuffed Eggs
>
>This recipe for stuffed Eggs comes from An Anonymous Andalusian Cookbook
>of the
>Thirteenth Century, which has only the english translation of the
>recipes;. They taste very
>similar to a deviled egg. I entered this recipe for the Silver Spoon,
>Spring Investiture A.S.
>XXXII. The amount of herbs and spices I use make this recipe mild,
>increase these
>ingredients according to your own taste.
>
>Translation of Original Recipe:
>
>Take as many eggs as you like, and boil them whole in hot water; put them
>in cold water
>and split them in half with a thread. Take the yolks aside and pound
>cilantro and put in
>onion juice, pepper and coriander, and beat all this together with Murri,
>oil and salt and
>knead the yolks with this until it forms a dough. Then stuff the whites
>with this and fasten
>it together, insert a small stick into each egg, and sprinkle them with
>pepper, God Willing.
>
>Redaction:
>
>8 eggs
>1/4 tsp. cilantro
>2 tsp. onion juice
>1/8 tsp. pepper
>1/4 tsp. Murri and pinch of salt
> or 1/4 tsp. salt
>2.5 Tbs. oil
I would take issue with your redaction on only one detail. The Andalusian
cookbook distinguishes between cilantro and coriander, apparently
representing the leaves and the ground seed of the coriander plant. This
recipes uses both. You only use one.
Comparing your worked out version to ours, I conclude that you are less
fond of cilantro than I am.
David/Cariadoc
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 22:24:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: Stephen Bloch <sbloch at adl15.adelphi.edu>
Subject: Re: SC - Piperfarces - a query
> The question is - Cariadoc's version uses 8 egg yolks to 2 T flour, where
> Pleyn Delit uses 2 egg yolks to slightly more flour than Cariadoc ...
> Are there parallel period examples which suggest a high yolk content?
I haven't done the "pipefarces" recipe. But on the subject of high yolk
content,....
Filled Muqawwara
from the 13th-century Arabo-Andalusian Manuscrito An—nimo, my translation
Sift a pound and a half of wheat flour in a good sifter, mix it with
the yolks of fifteen eggs and as much fresh milk as necessary. Put in
a little leavening and the dough will be firmer, make a loaf like a
raguif [patty] of this, and leave it to ferment. Then put sweet oil in
a frying pan and take it to the fire, and when it has heated, put in
the raguif, turn it little by little, and watch that it not stick.
Then turn it and when it has browned a little, take it out and put it
in a dish and cut it out like a muqawwara. Take out all the crumbs
that are in it and crumble it by hand until it thickens a little. Then
take sufficient peeled nuts and almonds and sugar, pound them well and
put a handful of this, then another of crumbs, into the muqawwara
until it is full; and scatter, again between the two hands, ground
sugar, and after this sprinkle it with rosewater. Then boil sweet
butter and good honey, pour into the muqawwara and when it makes a
boiling sound, go back to putting the topping on top, and pour the rest
of the honey and butter over the topping, sprinkle with sugar, and
present it.
This recipe, with my redaction thereof, appeared in a T.I. article
entitled "Some Recipes of al-Andalus" about eight years ago; the article
has been Webbed by Greg Lindahl, and is on his cookery page.
mar-Joshua ibn-Eleazar ha-Shalib
Stephen Bloch
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 08:10:55 -0700
From: "Anne-Marie Rousseau" <acrouss at gte.net>
Subject: Re: SC - deviled eggs info source
HI all from Anne-Marie
I know theres a version in Epilario, as well as one in la Varenne. Both are
very reminicent of devilled eggs.
- --AM
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 17:27:25 -0400
From: dy018 at freenet.carleton.ca (Micaylah)
Subject: Re: SC - Pine nuts
Corwyn said...
>Okay... I'll bite... should I NOT put them in the door?
>
>(I do btw...)
I just found this out. This part of your fridge is the warmest part. Given
that you don't know how long your eggs were on the shelf at the store, (even
though eggs have a fairly long shelf life) they half their life by being
stored at this temperature. I would hate to eat an egg that was slightly
off. Can you say yuck? Anyway this is what the fridge sales person said when
we went shopping recently. I checked with AgCan and they agreed.
Micaylah
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 06:08:00 -0700
From: "Anne-Marie Rousseau" <acrouss at gte.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Pennsic Menu -- LONG
Might I recommend for breakfasts Herbolade?
mince an onion and clarify in good olive oil. Throw in a bag of that
irradiated pre-washed spinach. Let sweat down. Break and beat a dozen eggs.
Throw in and stir. Stir occasionally until the eggs are almost set. Sprinkle
with grated cheese of choice (we used pre-grated provolone and cheddar we
can get in bags). Cover and let burble till cheese melts.
there are several versions of this in the English/French corpus, some with
cheese some without. We've done it with spinache, and also with bags of
fancy salad greens.
In my experience, eggs transport just fine without a cooler, assuming you
buy them right before you leave and keep them in the shade under a wet
cloth, in the carton you bought them in to protect them.
have fun!
- --Anne-Marie, working on her own menu for Coronation...to be cooked
Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 19:53:47 -0700
From: "Anne-Marie Rousseau" <acrouss at gte.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Herbolade
Hi all from Anne-Marie
Stephan asks about Herbolade:
"Was this dish mentioned in the period cookbooks as a breakfast dish? Or
do you just think it would make a good breakfast dish in the modern idea
of breakfast?"
It was most definately NOT mentioned as a breakfast dish, and in fact has
nothing to do with any of my reserach on appropriate breakfast foods. I was
feeding a campful of "but you gotta have sausage and eggs for breakfast!!!
(preferrably with a hashbrown thang)", and thught this would satisfy my
need for period cooking, plus make their little modnern palates happy. Me,
I do the medieval thing of breaking my fast on bread, small beer (when my
buddy makes it) and maybe some leftovers.
">mince an onion and clarify in good olive oil. Throw in a bag of that
>irradiated pre-washed spinach. Let sweat down. Break and beat a dozen eggs.
Clarified butter has been mentioned here before. How do you clarify olive
oil? I believe clarified butter has the solids removed. But olive oil
doesnÕt have any solids that IÕve noted."
oops! I mean "mince an onion and sautee till clear in good olive oil".
What, you dont automatically understand my shorthand??? :)
"IÕve never seen irradiated spinach here in the U.S. What would you do to
use standard fresh spinach? Do you tear the leaves into small pieces or
use as whole leaves? What do you mean by Òlet sweat downÓ?"
Those yuppie salad in a bags that you get at the grocery stores around here
are often irradiated (egads! :)). Means they dont go all soggy and icky as
fast. If you were to use standard fresh spinach, wash well, and remove the
stems. Tear into pieces. "to sweat down" means (to me) to let cook gently
till the water is released and suddenly you have WAY less volume than you
did before. You know when this has happened cuz the greens arent raw
looking anymore.
re: references....
Here are two. There are more.
In one, its a simple mix of eggs, butter and herbs, baked in a shell. The
other is an omelet gizmo with cheese, with the addition of ginger. We chose
to omit the ginger (sometimes..its tasty too), and do it as a crustless pie
or egg bake thing, depending on your point of view. Considering our infant
level abilities with the fire we're attempting to learn to cook on, I think
we did pretty good :)
We have done it with a more complex mix of salad greens, fresh herbs, etc,
but you canÕt beat the already bagged greens for ease of use and hygeine
when camping in primitive conditions. Please note that while neither
mentions onions, they were classified as an herb in the garden lists and
like of the time. If it offends, you can certainly leave them out.
Herbolat: (Forme of Curye 180)
Take persel, myntes, saverey and sauge, tansey, vervayn, clarry, rewe,
ditayn, fenel, southernwode; hewe hem and grinde hem smale. Medle hem up
with aryen. Do buttur in a trap and do the fars thereto and bake it and
mess forth.
One Herbolace Or Two of Eggs (Menagier de Paris, p. 274)
Take of dittany two leaves only, and of rue less than the half or naught,
for know that it is strong and bitter; of smallage, tansey, mint, and sage,
of each some four leaves or less, for each is strong; marjoram a little
more, fennel more, parsley more still, but of porray, beets, violet leaves,
spinach, lettuces and clary, as much of the one as of the others, until you
have two large handfuls. Pick them over and wash them in cold water, then
dry them of all the water, and bray two heads of ginger, then put your
herbs into the mortar two or three times and bray them with the ginger. And
then have sixteen eggs well beaten together, yolks and whites, and bray
and mix them in the mortar with the things abovesaid, then divide it in two
and make two thick omelettes, which you shall fry as followeth. First you
shall heat your frying pan very well with oil, butter or such other fat as
you will, and when it is very hot all over and especially towards the
handle, mingle and spread your eggs over the pan and turn them often over
and over with a flat palette, then cast good grated cheese on the top, and
know that it is so done, because if you grate cheese with the herbs and
eggs, when you come to fry your omelette, the cheese at the bottom will
stick to the pan, and thus it befals with an egg omelette if you mix the
eggs with the cheese. Wherefore you should first put the eggs in the pan,
and put the cheese on the top, and then cover the edges with eggs, and
otherwise it will cling to the pan. And when your herbs be cooked in the
pan, cut your herbolace into a round or square and eat it not too hot nor
too cold.
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 02:55:03 -0500
From: allilyn at juno.com (LYN M PARKINSON)
Subject: Re: SC - Herbolade/Leche lardys
Just read that recipe this afternoon, in An Ordinance of Pottage. There,
it is called 'leche lardys', recipe #19. The traditional way was,
apparently, to divide it and color it, serving slices of the different
colors in the same dish.
To make leche lardys of iii colors
Take clene cow mylke and put hit in iii pottys. Breke to everych a
quantyte of eyron as thu seist best is to do. Coloure one rede colour
with saundres & anothyr with saveryn, the iii with grene herbys. Puit to
everych a porcyon of clene larde of fat of bacon well sodyn & pertyd in
iii pottys; put to salt. Boyle hem all at ones; stere hem well for
brennyng yn the boyling. Take hem downe. Cast hem into a cloth, everych
above other, and wynd the cloth togedyr & presse out all the juse. Than
take hem out all hole and make leches of hem, and do iii or iiii leches
in a dysch, and serve hem forth.
Constance Hiett's Redaction:
Milk and egg curd, with bacon
4 eggs for green colouring: a handful of parsley
and/or spinach, plus and other herbs 2 cups milk which
appeal, e.g. summer savory
4 slices bacon
1/2 tsp. salt for yellow: a pinch of saffron
For green coloring, grind the herbs as finely as you can, or boil them
for a minute or so and grind with a spoonful of the cooking water, so
they will be reduced to juice. For yellow, you can either steep the
saffron in a small amount of boiling water or grind it.
Cover the bacon with cold water and bring to a boil; then drain
and cut the bacon into small pieces. If you prefer bacon slightly crisp,
fry these lightly.
Beat eggs and milk thoroughly, and stir in the bacon. Colour as
desired. Cook over low to medium heat, stirring constantly, until the
milk is thickly curdled. This is one 'custard' which should actually
curdle.
When the mixture is very thick, pour it into a cloth and set this
in a colander to let the whey run out; then fold the cloth and press down
firmly to get out more whey and to press the curd together. Place a
heavy weight on top for a few minutes while the curd cools enough to be
handled; then wring it again in its cloth, pressing it firmly together,
before laying it on a board and slicing it.
Hieatt, Constance B. AN ORDINANCE OF POTTAGE. Prospect Book. 1988. p.
132.
I'm including her recipe so that some of our newer members can see how a
professional redacts a recipe.
This is the culinary section of a 15th C. manuscript, now owned by Yale
University.
Allison
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 16:12:23 -0800
From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Subject: Re: SC - A couple of questions
At 9:54 PM -0500 8/30/98, Diamond wrote:
>Does anyone know if deviled eggs are period ?
I suppose it depends how you define deviled eggs; here are two period
recipes for stuffed eggs:
The Making of Stuffed Eggs
Andalusian A-24 (13th century Islamic Spain)
Take as many eggs as you like, and boil them whole in hot water; put them
in cold water and split them in half with a thread. Take the yolks aside
and pound cilantro and put in onion juice, pepper and coriander, and beat
all this together with murri, oil and salt and knead the yolks with this
until it forms a dough. Then stuff the whites with this and fasten it
together, insert a small stick into each egg, and sprinkle them with
pepper, God willing.
Stuffed eggs
Platina book 9 (15th c. Italian)
Cook fresh eggs for a long time so that they are hard, then take the egg
from the shell and split it through the middle, so as not to lose any of
the white. After you have taken out the yolk, grind up part of it with
good cheese, aged as well as fresh, and raisins; save the other part to
color the dish. Likewise add a little finely chopped parsley, marjoram and
mint. There are those who also put in two or more egg whites, along with
some spices. With this mixture fill the whites of the eggs and when they
are stuffed, fry them over a gentle flame, in oil. When they are fried,
make a sauce from the rest of the yolks and raisins ground together, and
when you have moistened them in verjuice and must, add ginger, clove, and
cinnamon and pour over the eggs and let them boil a little together.
Elizabeth/Betty Cook
Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 17:10:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gretchen M Beck <grm+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: SC - FW: Poaching Eggs
Excerpts from internet.listserv.sca-cooks: 5-May-99 SC - FW: Poaching
Eggs "Decker, Margaret" at Healt (474)
> Is the poaching method of preparing eggs Period? I would appreciate
> recipes. I couldn't find anything on this in the Floregium.
Yup. I don't have any recipes at my fingertips, but remember seeing
several in the various cookery books. I think there's a couple in the
two 15th century cookery books, for example.
toodles, margaret
Gretchen Beck
Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 15:09:58 -0700
From: lilinah at grin.net
Subject: Re: SC - FW: Poaching Eggs
Margarite asks:
> Is the poaching method of preparing eggs Period? I would appreciate
> recipes.
According to "The Medieval Kitchen" by Redon, Sabban, Serventi, poached
eggs are period, appearing in "Le Menagier de Paris" and "Le Viandier de
Taillevent". Two recipes call for poaching in oil, one for poaching in
water. I'm not including the redactions, although if anyone asks, i can
send them...
**p. 179 - Civet of Eggs (CivŽ d'oeufs, from "Le Menagier de Paris", recipe
174)
Poach some eggs in oil, then take onions, cut into circles and cooked, and
fry them in oil, then boil them in wine, verjus, and vinegar, and boil
everything together; then put three or four eggs in each bowl and pour the
brouet over; it should not be thick.
[The complete redaction considers the eggs to be fried sunnyside up and the
topping to be "ruby-red onion 'jam'"]
**p. 180 - Sippets in mustard (Soup en moustarde, from "Le Viandier de
Taillevent", Bibliotque Nationale de France, ed. Scully, recipe 150)
Take eggs, poached whole in oil without their shells, then take some of
that oil, wine, water, and onions fried in oil, all boiled together; take
slices of bread browned on the grill, then cut them into square pieces and
put them to boil with the other ingredients; then remove the broth and dry
your sippets of bread, then put it on a platter; then add mustard to your
broth and boil; then put the sippets into your bowls and pour it over.
[what happens to the eggs isn't exactly clear from the above. The redaction
sets an egg fried sunnyside up on each slice of bread and tops with mustard
sauce]
**p. 182 - Thickened cow's milk (Lait de vache lyŽ, from "Le Menagier de
Paris", recipe 175)
Take best-quality milk...;bring it to the boil then remove from the fire;
then put through a sieve many egg yolks, their filaments removed, and then
crush a knob of ginger and some saffron and add them; and keep warm near
the fire; then take eggs poached in water and put two ro three poached eggs
in each bowl and pour the milk over them.
[i edited out a comment that referred the reader to another recipe for
comments on milk]
"The Medieval Kitchen" includes the original recipes in French - if anyone
wants, i can send them too.
Happy poaching,
Anahita Gaouri bint-Karim al-Fassi
Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 19:25:23 -0400
From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow)
Subject: Re: SC - FW: Poaching Eggs
> Is the poaching method of preparing eggs Period? I would appreciate
> recipes.
> Margarite
Yes. There's a recipe for Potage de egges in Harleian Ms. 4016, #120:
"Take faire water and cast in a faire frying pan, or elle[3] in an o[th]er
vessell, til hit boyle, and skeme it well; And then breke faire rawe egges,
and caste hem in [th]e water, And lete [th]e water stonde stil ouer [th]e
fire, and lete the egges boyle harder or nessher as [th]ou wilt."
Cindy Renfrow/Sincgiefu
renfrow at skylands.net
Date: Thu, 06 May 1999 00:50:11 -0500
From: Stefan li Rous <stefan at texas.net>
Subject: SC - FW: Poaching Eggs
This did make me curious so I looked eggs up in Waverly Root's "Food".
Not much there on cooking of eggs or info for our period I'm afraid.
However, he does mention:
"The first chickens in the West seem to have appeared in Central
Europe about 1500 BC. They probably reached the Mediterranean area
in Greece sometime between 1100 BC and 720 BC".
"During the Renaissance, eggs were the chief food (and in some places
almost the only one) eaten in addition to meat. [wonder what he bases
this on???]
"The historian Benedetto Varchi produced a treatise on boiled eggs
early in the sixteenth century." [Wonder if this would make a good
translation project for someone who knows Latin (or Italian?) ?]
"...and in the seventeenth the renowned French cook Pierre Francois
de la Varenne wrote a cookbook containing sixty different recipes
for eggs." [Maybe another interesting translation project, but
perhaps a bit late unless there is some proof that some of these
recipes might date from earlier times.]
- --
Lord Stefan li Rous Barony of Bryn Gwlad Kingdom of Ansteorra
Mark S. Harris Austin, Texas stefan at texas.net
Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 11:13:41 +0100
From: Christina Nevin <cnevin at caci.co.uk>
Subject: SC - Poached eggs
Margarite enquired:
> Is the poaching method of preparing eggs Period? I would appreciate
> recipes.
There is a rather nice poached egg in custard dish in the Menagier:
Le Menagier de Paris, Translated by Janet Hinson
http://www.best.com/~ddfr/Medieval/Cookbooks/Menagier/Menagier.html
Thickened Cow' Milk. Let the milk be carefully chosen, as is told above in
the chapter on thickened meat soups, and let it be boiled to a simmer, then
remove from the fire: then pour slowly into it through a sieve a great
quantity of egg yolks, and then grind a handful of ginger and saffron, and
put them in, and keep it hot by the fire; then have eggs poached in water
and put two or three poached eggs in each bowl, and the milk over them.
The "Medieval Kitchen" translation of this recipe is virtually the same.
There are also these two poached egg soup recipes from the Menagier. The
Green Broth is a popular dish at feasts:
Green Broth of Eggs and Cheese. Take parsley and a little cheese and sage
and a very small amount of saffron, moistened bread, and mix with water left
from cooking peas, or stock, grind and strain: and have ground ginger mixed
with wine, and put on to boil; then add cheese and eggs poached in water,
and let it be a bright green. Item, some do not add bread, but instead of
bread use bacon.
German Broth of Eggs Poached in Oil.[66] Then take almonds and peel them,
grind and sieve: slice up onions, and let them be cooked in water, then fry
in oil, and put all to boil; then grind ginger, cinnamon, clove and a little
saffron mixed with verjuice, and finally add your spices to the soup, and
boil till it bubbles, and let it be very thick and not too yellow.
[66]There is without a doubt missing here "poach eggs in oil". (JP)
Al Vostro e al Servizio del Sogno
Lucretzia
Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 11:22:43 +0100
From: Christina Nevin <cnevin at caci.co.uk>
Subject: SC - RE: Poached eggs
Saluti!
Forgot to mention, the popular Green Broth is in Cariadoc's Miscelleny
http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/cariadoc/miscellany.html
as follows:
"3 T parsley
1/2 (15 g) oz cheese, grated
3 small leaves fresh sage
5 threads saffron
2 thin slices = 1.5 oz white bread (or bacon)
2 c pea stock or dilute vegetable or chicken stock
1/8 t ginger
1 T white wine
1 3/4 oz cheese, grated
3 eggs
Soak bread in stock (either water left from cooking peas or 1/2 c canned
chicken broth + 1 1/2 c water). Grind parsley, sage, and saffron in a mortar
thoroughly; add 1/2 oz cheese and soaked bread and grind together. Strain
through a strainer; if necessary, put back in mortar what didn't go through,
grind again, and strain again. Mix wine and ginger, add to mixture, and
bring to a boil over moderate heat; be careful that it does not stick to the
bottom. Stir in the rest of the cheese; break eggs into soup, and continue
to simmer until eggs are poached.
Note: We have used both Gouda and cheddar cheese; both are good."
This is a good soup to make up to the "bring to a boil over moderate heat"
stage, then freeze. Defrost on the day before, then at the last minute stir
in the cheese, poach the eggs and serve.
Al Vostro e al Servizio del Sogno
Lucretzia
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Lady Lucrezia-Isabella di Freccia | mka Tina Nevin
Thamesreach Shire, The Isles, Drachenwald | London, UK
Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 11:19:04 -0700
From: lilinah at grin.net
Subject: SC - Poached eggs
Since i had some requests, here are the redactions that include "poached
eggs" from:
_The Medieval Kitchen: Recipes from France and Italy_
by Odile Redon, Francoise Sabban, & Silvano Serventi
translated by Edward Schneider
copyright 1998
The University of Chicago Press
The original recipes were in Medieval French (see end of post)
I didn't include the redactions with my original post. I don't entirely
agree with them.
For example, having spent time using a lot of oil for Southeast Asian
cooking, i don't think the eggs have to be "fried sunny-side up" in a
frying pan - they can be slipped into somewhat hot, somewhat deep oil,
which would be more like poaching in oil (i'd use a wok, but that isn't
Medieval French). But i'd have to experiment to be sure.
Here they are, including some of the modern authors' comments:
p. 179: Civet of Eggs
(from Menagier de Paris 174)
2 medium onions
olive oil
2 cups good, light bodied red wine, such as a Beaujolais or other gamay
(1/2 liter)
3 tablespoons verjuice (or substitute the juice of 1/2 a lemon plus 2
tablespoons water)
1 tablespoon good red wine vinegar
salt
4 fresh large eggs
Peel onions and cut in 1/4 inch slices. Steam or poach them for 5 to 7
minutes. Drain well.
Over medium heat, warm 2 tablespoons of olive oil in a small saucepan; add
the cooked onion slices and saute' for about 10 minutes, or until lightly
golden.
Add wine, verjuice, and vinegar, bring to a boil, and cook at a gentle boil
until the mixture has reduced by 3/4 and the onions have formed a somewhat
loose "jam". Salt to taste.
When the onions are nearly done, fry the eggs in olive oil, sunny side up,
being careful not to break the yolks. Drain them well.
Place eggs on heated plates. Spoon the onion sauce over the eggs.
p. 180: Sippets in Mustard
(from Le Viandier de Taillevent 150)
There are several versions of this French recipe, but none of them
indicates whether the "eggs, poached whole in oil" are actually part of the
dish. We decided in our adaptation to set the eggs on top of the bread --
the soupes or sippets, grilled and then soaked in sauce -- even though we
are not explicitly instructed to do so. Otherwise, what are we supposed to
do with the eggs once we have used their cooking oil to make the sauce? It
is hard to imagine throwing them away and keeping only their oil as a sauce
base. But it also depends on whether this recipe is for a potage with bread
(as its title would suggest) or for an egg dish. After some indecision, we
decided that it would be more interesting amont the egg preparations, and
devised our version to yield relatively little sauce.
2 medium onions
olive oil
4 very fresh eggs
1 cup red wine (1/4 liter)
5 fluid ounces water (15 centiliters)
salt
2 slices dry country bread, toasted or grilled
1 tablespoon homemade mustard, or good Dijon or Meaux
Peel and slice onions, then saute until golden in a little olive oil. Reserve.
Fry the eggs, sunny-side up, in 3 generous tablespoons of olive oil;
reserve on a warm plate.
To the same pan, add the sauteed onions, the wine, the water, and a little
salt, and boil until the raw wine flavor has disappeared and the sauce is
somewhat reduced.
Dip both sides of the bread into this sauce; the bread should absorb some
of the liquid, but not become sodden. Place one slice of bread on each
plate.
Now stir the mustard into the sauce, bring to the boil, and remove from the
heat.
Set one fried egg on each slice of bread and top with some of the mustard
sauce.
[MY NOTE: Yes, there's a discrepancy between the number of cooked eggs and
slices of bread in the published redaction - one egg on each slice of bread
- - but there are 4 eggs and 2 slices of bread]
P. 182: Thickened Cow's Milk
(from Menagier de Paris 175)
(given in The Medieval Kitchen as: Poached Eggs in Custard Sauce)
Ingredients for Two Servings:
2 cups milk (1/2 liter)
salt
1/4-inch slice fresh ginger, peeled, or, if unavailable, 1 teaspoon ground
ginger
4 egg yolks
1 pinch saffron threads
4 very fresh eggs
Bring the milk just to the boil, and salt lightly.
Grate or puree the ginger.
Bring a pan of water to the simmer, for poaching the eggs.
Beat the four yolks and put them through a fine strainer into a bowl; salt
lightly. Whisk a little of the hot milk into the yolks, then pour the yolk
mixture into the saucepan with the remaining milk. Cook over very low heat,
stirring constantly, until the mixture becomes slightly thick. Overheating
will cause the sauce to curdle. Add the ginger and saffron, and check for
salt.
Poach the four remaining eggs in barely simmering water for about 4
minutes. Serve immediately, two per portion, in soup plates, with the sauce
poured over.
For those who can read it, here's the medieval French:
CivŽs d'oeufs
(Menagier de Paris 174)
Pochez oeufs a l'uille, puis aiez oignons par rouelles cuis, et les friolez
ˆ l'uille, puis mettez bouilir en vin, vertjus et vinaigre, et faite boulir
tout ensemble; puis mettez en chascune escuelle trois ou quatre oeufs, et
gettez vostre brouet dessus, et soit non liant.
Soupe en moustarde
(Le Viandier de Taillevent, ed. Scully, Biblioteque Nationale de France, 150)
PrennŽs des oeufs pochiŽs en huille tous entiers sans esquaille, puis
prennŽs d'icelle huille, du vin, de l'eau, de oingnons fris en huille,
boullŽs tout ensemble; prennŽs lches de pain halŽ sur le gril, puis en
faites morssiaux quarrŽs, et metŽs boulir aveques; puis hastŽs vostre
boullon, et ressuiŽs vostre soupe; puis la verssŽs en un plat; puis de la
moustarde dedans vostre boullon, et la boullir; puis metŽs vos souppes en
vos escuelles, et metŽs dessus.
Lait de vache lyŽ
(Menagier de Paris 175)
Soit pris le lait ˆ eslite, comme dit est cy-devant ou chappitre des
potages, et soit bouly une onde, puis mis hors du feu: puis y filez par
l'estamine grant foison de moieux d'oeufs et ostez le germe, et puis broyez
une cloche de gingembre et saffren, et mettez dedans, et tenez chaudement
emprs le feu; puis ayez des oeufs pochŽs en eaue et mettez deux ou trois
oeufs pochŽs en l'escuelle, et le lait dessus.
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 17:21:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gretchen M Beck <grm+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: SC - eggs?
I have a recipe for farced (stuffed) eggs from one of the Good Huswife's
Jewel's. It's available at:
http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~grm/wwwaway-feast.html
These were referred to by the kitchen crew as "Eggs in Bondage" because
we tied them up to reboil them once they were stuffed.
toodles, margaret
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 20:50:33 EDT
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - eggs?
memorman at oldcolo.com writes:
<< I was wondering if anyone might have a recipe for stuffed eggs? >>
The Making of Stuffed Eggs
'Take as many eggs as thou wilt and boil them whole in hot water, put them in
cold water and divide them in half with a thread. Take the yolks asise and
crush cilantro, put in onion juice, pepper, and coriander and beat all this
together with murri, oil, and salt and mash the yolks with this until it
becomes a paste. Then stuff the whites with this and fasten it together,
insert a small stick into each egg and sprinkle them with pepper, God willing.
Redaction by al-Sayyid A'aql ibn Rashid al-Zib, AoA, OSyc
Copyright c 1999 L. J. Spencer, Jr. Williamsport, PA
12 Eggs, hard-boiled and peeled
1 T Cilantro, mashed
1 tsp Onion juice
3/8 tsp Black pepper, ground
1/2 tsp Coriander seed, ground
1 tsp Byzantine murri naqi
1 T Olive oil (or more)
Salt to taste
12 round Toothpicks
Blackpepper, ground for garnish
Cut eggs in half, removing yolks which are placed in a seperate bowl.
Beat cilantro, onion juice, murri and olive oil together. Add salt to taste.
Add yolks, mashing mixture until it forms a smooth paste, adding more oil as
needed.Stuff yolk mixture into each egg half. Secure halves together with a
toothpick. Sprinkle lightly with pepper
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 12:40:35 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jeff Heilveil <heilveil at uiuc.edu>
Subject: SC - stuffed eggs
Last night I tried the stuffed eggs recipe. It was WONDERFUL. My only
suggestion is that like the original says, cut the eggs with thread, as it
works better than any knife.
Bogdan
_______________________________________________________________________________
Jeffrey Heilveil Bogdan de la Brasov
Department of Entomology MoAS, Barony of Wurm Wald
University of Illinois Bucatar-sef, Wurm Wald
heilveil at uiuc.edu Middle Kingdom
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 02:25:46 EDT
From: Korrin S DaArdain <korrin.daardain at juno.com>
Subject: Re: SC - stuffed eggs
On Tue, 20 Jul 1999 12:40:35 -0500 (CDT) Jeff Heilveil
<heilveil at uiuc.edu> writes:
>Last night I tried the stuffed eggs recipe. It was WONDERFUL. My only
>suggestion is that like the original says, cut the eggs with thread,
>as it works better than any knife.
>
>Bogdan
Or use one of those cheese slicers that uses the wire and is part of a
cutting board.
Korrin S. DaArdain
Kitchen Steward of Household Port Karr
Kingdom of An Tir in the Society for Creative Anachronism.
Korrin.DaArdain at Juno.com
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:31:33 +1000
From: "Susan P Laing" <Susan.P.Laing at mainroads.qld.gov.au>
Subject: SC - Orange Omelette - Question re. serving
Just a question to the list regarding one of the recipes that was supposed to be
served at my last event but was shelved due to the cry of "too much food"
: ORANGE OMELETTE FOR HARLOTS AND RUFFIANS (MEDIEVAL KITCHEN P185)
The recipe in Medival Kitchen (by Redon) calls for this to be "served hot"
So the questions are :
A)Has anyone made it for an event and if so - how did you manage to get it from
the kitchen to the food bowls without it going cold
B) Does it taste alright when cool
& C) - I've heard that it's not precisely an "omlette" (ie fairly solid when
cooked) but more of a runny type of pudding - is this correct??
(I'm planning on playing with it next weekend but am interested in how others
found it)
Mari de Paxford
St Florians
_________________________________________________________________
ORANGE OMELETTE FOR HARLOTS AND RUFFIANS (MEDIEVAL KITCHEN P185)
6 Eggs
2 Oranges
1 Lemon
2 tbspns sugar
2 tbspns Olive Oil
1. Juice the oranges and lemon
2. Beat the eggs, add juice and sugar
3. Cook Omelette - serve hot
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 07:08:06 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Orange Omelette - Question re. serving
Susan P Laing wrote:
> So the questions are :
> A)Has anyone made it for an event and if so - how did you manage to get it
> from the kitchen to the food bowls without it going cold
Please understand my experience is with other omelettes, not this one,
but in case it helps anyway...
Get all your ingredients and several well-seasoned pans ready and turn
them out factory-style, with no more than two pans per cook working on
them. You can't turn out a decent omelette without two hands on each
omelette, but you can do the stirring thing in one pan and let it set a
bit while stirring the other.
Another possibility might be to make them like tortillas or frittatas,
scrambling the eggs, let them set just a bit, turning them over, and
putting them in the oven to finish. This would allow a little leeway.
> B) Does it taste alright when cool
Room temp, yes. Chilled, no. (shudder) With the exception of those sushi
omelettes, I suppose.
> & C) - I've heard that it's not precisely an "omlette" (ie fairly solid when
> cooked) but more of a runny type of pudding - is this correct??
The recipe doesn't say, unfortunately. The translation in TMK is pretty
good, I'd say. It calls the dish "fritatem", which isn't real helpful
unless there are amazing revelations in a medieval Latin dictionary. I
think this could be anywhere from a sauced fricassee (it's not
unprecedented to omit all reference to meat in pottage dishes that are,
in some cases, supposed to be meat-in-sauce dishes, like some of the
syrosye-type thingies in England) to a firmly cooked omelette. The best
I can say is that Platina, as I recall, says not to overcook eggs, and
he's _roughly_ contemporary to the cook who wrote this recipe (1470's
C.E. Rome instead of 1430's C.E. Rome). The recipe just says to take
beaten eggs and cook them. It may be a matter of taste.
Adamantius
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 17:40:49 +1000
From: "Susan P Laing" <Susan.P.Laing at mainroads.qld.gov.au>
Subject: SC - Orange Omelette - original recipe
Sic fac fritatem de pomeranciis
Recipe ova percussa, cum pomeranciis ad libitum tuum, et extrahe inde sucum, et
mitte ad illa ova cum zucaro; post reipe oleum olive, vel segimine, et fac
califieri in patella, et mitte illa ova intus. Et erit pro ruffianis et
leccatricibus
Orange Omelette for Harlots and Ruffians (translated by Redon et al "The
Medieval Kitchen)
How to make an orange omelette - Take eggs and break them, with oranges, as many
as you like; squeeze their juice and add to it the eggs with sugar; then take
olive oil or fat, and heat it in the pan and add the eggs. This was for
ruffians and braken harlots
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:51:03 GMT
From: "Liam Fisher" <macdairi at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Whipped Cream
>It appears to have been largely true, but not without possible
>exception. While I'm not aware of any truly medieval whipped cream
>usage, I've seen some suspicious cases of egg whites being run through a
>strainer, and I think there's a reference to whites being run through a
>strainer till they're as thick as pap or some such. I could be wrong. It
>is a fact, though, that pumping egg whites through a strainer will
>aerate them as effectively as beating them, if you repeat the process
>enough times.
Different texture, but close. The beaten ones are stiffer the sieved ones
are ribbony. I was told about it once so I tried it. It takes a while too.
In forcing the whites through the strainer they get some aeration, but not
as much as a good beating.
Cadoc
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 00:05:35 EST
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Egg Yolks
harper at idt.net writes:
<< I know that HG Cariadoc in the Miscellany estimates that medieval eggs
were about half the size of modern large eggs. Does the same
conversion apply to yolks? >>
Small eggs available in any grocery store would be the equivalent in size to
the majority of medieval eggs.
Ras
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 11:51:42 -0600
From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Egg Yolks
At 12:07 AM -0700 11/11/99, Victoria Wilson wrote:
> > I know that HG Cariadoc in the Miscellany estimates that medieval eggs
> > were about half the size of modern large eggs. Does the same
> > conversion apply to yolks?
As I hope I made clear in the _Miscellany_, that is merely a guess,
nothing more. I don't have the evidence to back it up--and hope
someone else will learn more.
One possibility is to look at paintings, although the ones most
likely to give accurate pictures of such things are probably late
period or post period. Someone, I think Marion of Edwinstowe, looked
at some such and concluded that egg sizes didn't seem that different
from ours, which suggests that I probably overestimated the
difference.
Somewhere out there there has to be a chicken history enthusiast who
could actually answer the question--anyone know where?
David Friedman
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 23:34:06 EST
From: Elysant at aol.com
Subject: SC - Size of Eggs
>> harper at idt.net writes:
><< I know that HG Cariadoc in the Miscellany estimates that medieval eggs
were about half the size of modern large eggs. Does the same
conversion apply to yolks? >>
Ras then wrote
>Small eggs available in any grocery store would be the equivalent in size to
>the majority of medieval eggs.
I have to share in support of this that usually, when I've used traditional
Welsh recipes (including Welshcakes) that have eggs as an ingredient, if I
don't use medium or small eggs, then the number of eggs called for in the
recipe gives me too much egg quantity for the amounts of the other ingredients in the dish.
If I don't have small eggs at home when I decide to make such a dish, I have
to compensate by whipping up the prescribed number of (larger) eggs I have to
hand and then add just enough beaten egg to give me the consistency I need to
achieve the proper results.
I think this helps confirm that in what appear to be older recipes (even if
Welsh recipes generally can't be documented as "period") the eggs used were
smaller.
Elysant
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 15:08:44 -0500
From: "Hupman, Laurie" <LHupman at kenyon.com>
Subject: SC - Conversations about Eggs (long)
I followed the recent thread about egg size, and the differences between
eggs in period and what's available in the grocery store, and then posed a
question to an apprentice in Indiana who is raising period poultry. He
provided me with the following information:
> > I really can't give you specific documentation about egg sizes but,
> > I have been researching and raising antique and period breeds of
> > chickens for 7 years now. I raise Sussex (a 14thcen English breed)
> > which lays a white Medium egg, Light Brahmas (known in period a Polo di
> > Poli) from Venice, they lay a Medium to Large Brown egg, Black Jersey
> > Giants(11th cen. Channel Isle) which is a huge bird and lays a Large
> > white egg.
> > The best bet for an Italian egg is the Light Brahma, known from the
> > 12thcen. on, though it later was reintroduced by English Traders with
> > it's modern name. There is also known in Italy, The Roman (now known as
> > the Roman Dorking, (they lay a Medium egg) it was the first breed of
> > domestic fowl introduced to the British Isles by the Romans. Before this
> > the natives had no domestic
> > fowl!?! It would also be a good bet to look for Arcuna and Palermo
> > birds, but good luck. I've still not found a state side breeder!
> >
> > Generally the Large eggs we now would have been their Extra Jumbo!
> > Standard egg size in most antique breeds remains Medium to Small. I'm
> > not saying that we can't use modern eggs, but we do have to bear the
> > differences in mind.
> > Bear also in mind that the whites of the egg might also carry a flavor,
> > less than the yolk of course, from the diet of the hens. In late period
> > we were just re-introducing the planned diets of fowls for fattening,
> > but we were not yet planning for egg production and most hens foraged
> > for their feed or were fed a grain and refuse diet, fairly rich in
> > protein for strong egg production.
> >
> > If you need more info or discuss points let me know, I loave to talk
> > about poultry and my birds!!
and:
Yes, most of that line is holding true to what we can see in the records.
However, we have to note that there were even then exceptions. While we do
not see a recording of our Extra Large and Jumbo eggs, we can see our
standard Large egg as being indeed a LARGE egg. The controversy isn't so
much as the chickens are bigger or larger but that they have been bred to
have ever larger eggs until now in many cases they are out of proportion
with the size of the bird laying them!! BTW, we have shell fragments from
middens and entire eggs from Pompeii, so we do have evidence to bear up
various findings! I think it is fine to use modern eggs and even the extra
large sizes, just bear the extra liquid in mind, and the fact that the
battery eggs DON'T taste the same at all!! Sorry, personal preferance!!
and,
Waitaminnit! You mean that the size difference isn't as, well,
different, as the taste? So what do period eggs taste like? Do the
chickens taste different as well?
Rose :)
Ja Wohl,Madame the secret is the diet of the
birds and the amount of exercise they get!! like everything else what you
put in is what you get out!! Breeding gives you the egg and body size,
feeding gives you tha tasteand texture. Period and Free-range birds ate a
much more diverse and simplified diet. Those birds who are kept in cages are
fatter and fattier and have a much blander taste than those who eat what hey
choose and run around.Period eggs are richer in color and in taste, having a
slightly gamey taste, much more flesh-tasting, sort of hard to describe
though. If Modern birds are allowed a free-range lifestyle they will produce
a much more natural tasting egg, thoughthe size of said egg will still be a
good deal larger than in period.
So it seems to me that we'd be safe in using small to medium sized eggs to
approximate the appropriate level of liquid in each recipe, but in using
grocery store eggs, we're probably not coming too close to the right flavor.
However, if you wish, Brother Johann will sell both eggs and chickens to
interested parties, and is quite happy to talk "chicken."
Rose :)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 17:37:24 -0500
From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net>
Subject: SC - More on egg sizes
I'm am very grateful to everyone who offered information, suggestions,
and speculations about egg sizes. Today, I bought a carton of medium
eggs (I haven't seen any small ones in my local stores), intending to
use them sometime soon to redact some recipe or other. I also took
someone's advice, and began to look at paintings. In _The Heritage of
Spanish Cooking_, which is one of those heavily-illustrated coffeetable
cookbooks, I found a painting by Velazquez. "Old Woman Cooking
Eggs" was painted circa 1618 (19 years after Granado's cookbook was
published). It clearly shows an egg in the old woman's hand. I can't be
certain, but as best I can judge the proportions, it's about the same as a
modern medium-sized egg. There's an image of the painting at:
http://sunsite.auc.dk/cgfa/velazque/p-velazq39.htm
Lady Brighid ni Chiarain
Settmour Swamp, East (NJ)
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 13:06:16 -0000
From: nanna at idunn.is (Nanna Rognvaldardottir)
Subject: Re: SC - egg sizes
òlfR wrote:
>A quick look revealed
>no indications of egg sizes, but he did find a note that bones from
>chickens from when they first entered Sweden (a couple of centuries BC)
>indicated that they were slightly smaller than moderns dwarf (bantam?)
>chickens.
I«ve been trying out several old cookie recipes over the weekend, all from
cookbooks printed 1906 or earlier, both Icelandic and foreign, and the only
recipe which worked as it was supposed to, without added flour, was a recipe
where you were supposed to weigh the eggs and use as much flour as they
weighed. The other cookies were quite good too but I had to add as much as
25-30% extra flour or potato flour to be able to roll out the dough or form
it as the recipe said. To me this indicates that the eggs used in these 18th
and 19th century recipes were much smaller than medium sized eggs are these
days.
Nanna
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 16:15:06 -0500 (EST)
From: alysk at ix.netcom.com
Subject: SC - Re: Egg Sizes
Greetings! Par answered:
>Got a response from my archaeology on the issue. A quick look revealed
>no indications of egg sizes...
Diego Velazquez did two still lifes with eggs where you can see the approximate
size. "Old Woman Poaching Eggs" (1610) was mentioned earlier by someone. The
egg is cradled in the woman's hand and would seem to be about a "large" size,
although it might be as small as a "medium", but no smaller. He also did "Christ
in the House of Martha and Mary" (1618) where the eggs are in a shallow dish.
Martha's hands are not too far away and the egg looks like it would comfortably
fit in her fist, about the same size as in the previous still life. Again, it
looks more like a "large".
Alys Katharine
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:53:08 -0500
From: Angie Malone <alm4 at cornell.edu>
Subject: SC - Re: SC-Olives, and I've got a new book
Funny you should bring this up. I just got a new book (new to me, it is a
used book) it is titled:
Four Seasons of the House of Cerruti trans. by Judith Spencer. It is said
to be a facsimile of I think a 13 or 14th century manuscript. It takes
about herbs, foods and other things and what they thought they did to you.
From the first perusal I did last night I remember that eggs yolks were
very good for you, and eggs whites especially if you ate them would make
you belch. They said the best way to cook eggs was to poach them but said
you could also boil them, but recommended what sounded like soft boiled
eggs that hard boiled would also bother you somehow.
<snip of olives info - see olives-msg>
I was going to write to the list today and ask if anyone else had looked
over the book and what they thought about it. I am, for now, treating it
as a source of information that needs verifying until I can determine it's
accuracy.
Angeline
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 22:22:42 EST
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - yet another egg question uses
You can separate the eggs into whites and yolks and freeze them in ice cube trays with the equivalent of one eggs per slot and use them in future cooking also.
Ras
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 09:59:05 -0500
From: Kay Loidolt <mmkl at indy.net>
Subject: SC - yet another egg question
> From: Magdalena <magdlena at earthlink.net>
> I have yet another egg question for y'all. My SO is
> doing a repeatability study on the use of eggs as
> hydrometers in period brewing. So far he has discovered
> that store bought eggs don't repeat results for love of god
> or money. (I told him to use fresh eggs... ;> ) My
> question is: Will eggs from a commercial setup where the
> chickens are fed all sorts of supplements have a different
> density than eggs from a free-range chicken, assuming that
> both are fresh that day? Also, if Digby says eggs, is it
> safe to assume chicken eggs?
Johann, poultrier, responds:
Yes commercial eggs may vary as much as a 8 hours to 24 hours in age
per carton. Usually they are within the 1-2 hour range, but by the time
we get them in the market they are already at least 24 hour old.
The refrigeration also changes their density, I think?? There is a
slight change in density between non-fertilized eggs and fertile ones,
and there 'might' be a 'slight' change between commercial feed and
natural feed, I don't know, I'll check with the APA.
If you want to use eggs as a hydrometer use VERY FRESH eggs (within the
day of laying) You will have to find a home operation and buy directly
from them. Contact your local Ag.Office or co-op.
Kiriel?, Do you ever have enough to sell to others? I do!! I sell about
2-3 dozen eggs a week now, more in the summer!! I even have a few
re-enactors as customers!!
I am keeping a dozen hens and 4 cocks(4 breeding pairs) and my family
and I can't keep up with even the winter laying. I gather about 2 dz.
eggs a week during the winter and expect that to double during the
spring and summer. I hope to set about 4dz. per breed in the spring
(allowing for a good 60% hatch rate) I should have a goodly flock going
with period cockerls to slaughter by, June or July.
Johann, poultrier.
P.S.
It is correct to assume Chicken (Gallius,ie.chicken,or pheasant) Eggs
in Digby unless stated otherwise. Waterfowl eggs were used, but were
usually called for specifically.
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 22:44:33 -0800
From: Anne-Marie Rousseau <acrouss at gte.net>
Subject: Re: SC - green onions and stuffed eggs questions
hey all from Anne-Marie
Stefan sez:
>I am using Anne-Marie's redaction for one of my dishes this coming weekend.
yum! its always a hit here :)
>> 1. Eggs farced [la Varenne #1 p294]
>> Take sorrell, alone if you will, or with other herbs, wash and swing them,
>> then mince them very small, and put between two dishes with fresh butter,
>> or passe them in the panne; after they are passed, soak and season them;
>> after your farce is sod, take some hard eggs, cut them into halfs, a
>> crosse, or in length, and take out the yolks, and mince them with your
>> farce, and after all is well mixed, stew them over the fire, and put to it
>> a little nutmeg, and serve garnished with the whites of your eggs which you
>> may make brown in the pan with brown butter.
>I have seen some recipes that call for only the white portion of green
>onions. When just the green onions are mention as here, does this mean
>the whole onion, green leaves and white bulb?
I tend to use pretty much just the white part with a bit of the green,
minced fairly finely. I find if I use too much green, its very woody, too
strong in flavor and doesnt work well. la varenne calls them "chibols", so
if you chose, you can use chives. Chives are pretty expensive, so I try to
cut costs by using the cheaper green onions, so I can afford the decent
balsamic vinegar and fresh sorrell.
>The directions say to add the egg yolks and stir until smooth. Mine still
>has little lumps of egg yolk. Is this normal? If not, what should I do next
>time?
It should be very smooth. Use a fork and you'll get all the lumps out.
Someone told me they did this in a food processor with great results, but I
havent tried it myself. yours is fine, lumpy doesnt really affect the taste.
>Anne-Marie, you serve these as stuffed-eggs. the phrase in the original
>message "and serve garnished with the whites of your eggs" makes me think
>more of chopping the whites up and sprinkling them on the yolk mixture.
>Is there a particular reason you chose to do these as stuffed eggs? This
>is what I am planning on doing since it then becomes the finger food I
>am wanting, but I'm curious.
I assume that they're stuffed based on the title in the original manuscript
"Eggs Farced". I would like to see the original french and see if that
phrase "garnished" could be interpreted differently...
>Lastly folks, how would you dice these greens? I mainly used kitchen shears
>to cut them into tiny pieces. I tried to use my chopper jar, but that didn't
>work all that well as it seemed to mush them more than chop them. Lots of
>moisture.
I use my super spiffo 15th century replica knife :). Alternatly a good
chefs knife and a bit of elbow grease. The herbs should be pretty fine. I
tried using a nut grinder, but it didnt work at all :(
>Perhaps the food processor which I will be getting in the near future with
>money my mother gifted me with for this purpose will work for this? I am
>finding the chopping and dicing of vegetables for all these dishes to be
>pretty tedious.
the eggs arent bad since the only thing you need to mince is the herbs. I
put them all together on the cutting board and whack away. Takes seconds
with my good knife. I do it while the eggs are hardboiling.
Another tip...you need to take the egg/herb stuff off the stove when you
add the last of the butter. if the butter is at room temp, you can use it
to make the mixture nice and smooth. Add vinegar to taste, and if its too
thick. Depending on the temp of the stove, etc, sometimes we need to fuss
with it a bit, adding more butter and/or balsamic vinegar to get it to the
right consistency and taste. Should be piquant, with a bit of herby
goodness :). the texture should be soft, but solid enough to pipe.
- --AM
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 07:48:04 -0500
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Quail Eggs- Was Re: SC - Substitute for Lovage
Glenda Robinson wrote:
> (And to answer my own question about the quail eggs - from what I found
> somewhere obscure on the net, you can plunge them straight into boiling
> water for 3 minutes - that's the only one I've found as yet. Hope it works,
> as I scared up 2 doz. of them for a part of a Roman entree - I'll sacrifice
> one as an experiment first!)
3 minutes (maybe 4, depending on how well done you like them) makes a
fair amount of sense, I think. I was taught that for the
plunge-into-boiling-water method, eight minutes makes a perfectly
hard-boiled hen's egg, and it does seem pretty foolproof. I guess you
have to figure, based on diameter, a hair under half that, which is
three minutes. You could try one or two at three minutes and see if you
like them that way.
BTW, I found a demitasse spoon is great for peeling quail's eggs in
quantity. Crack and roll them gently, pull off the part of the shell
where the little air cavity usually is, then you can slip the wet spoon
between the shell and the white. It works with minimal tearing, but
seems somewhat faster than using the hands alone.
Adamantius
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 08:51:09 -0500
From: Kay Loidolt <mmkl at indy.net>
Subject: SC - Lovage and Quail Eggs
Johann von Metten writes:
As for quail eggs, you might contact your local poultry association and
see if there are any breeders in your area, they may be able to help
you. Also if that fails try free-range pullet or bantam eggs. Both of
these are going to be quite small, maybe a little larger than quail, but
not much!! Pullet eggs are the hens first attempt at laying, usually at
4-5 months old, after that they increase to mature size. Bantam are not
a breed really, but a size, like toy or minature dogs. They lay eggs
propotionate to their size and so if they are also free-range, they
would produce an egg similar to a natural quail. Of course if you take a
quail and raise them in a battery house with battery feed, you still
have battery eggs, just a small egg!!
Johann, poultrier
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 19:24:29 EST
From: Seton1355 at aol.com
Subject: SC - REC: BAID MASUS
Well this Trimaris thread has had one positive affect on me: I've started
looking through my recipes and cookbooks again.
For tonight's supper I made **Baid Masus** from His Grace's Miscellany. I
had never made it before. It was delicious! A very straight forward recipe
and easy to make. I didn't have any *mastic* however. (I hope everyone got
my previous post on mastic - a liquorice flavored sap) And instead of frying
up the celery in oil, I used cooking spray. Now here is the recipe:
Baid Masus
al-Baghdadi p. 202/11
Take fresh sesame-oil, place in the saucepan, and boil: then put in celery.
Add a little fine-brayed coriander, cummin and cinnamon, and some mastic;
then pour in vinegar as required, and colour with a little saffron. When
thoroughly boiling, break eggs, and drop in whole: when set, remove.
2 T sesame oil
1/2 lb celery
1/2 T coriander
1 t cumin
1/2 t cinnamon
1/16 t mastic (measured ground)
1 1/2 T vinegar
12 threads saffron
6 eggs
Trim celery and cut into 1/4" bits. Heat oil. Saute celery in oil over
moderate heat for 7 minutes, adding spices just after putting in the celery.
Stir vigorously. Crush saffron into vinegar; pour vinegar into pan with
celery. Immediately crack in whole eggs and let cook, covered, until egg
white is set.
YIS,
Phillipa Seton
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 22:58:23 -0600
From: "Morgan Cain" <morgancain at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: SC - It's not just for breakfast......
> > Mustard eggs are a GREAT breakfast!)
> Recipe, please?
Sodde Eggs: Seethe your Egges almost harde, then peele them and cut them in
quarters, then take a little Butter in a frying panne and melt it a little
browne, then put to it in to the panne, a little Vinegar, Mustarde, Pepper
and Salte, and then put it into a platter upon your Egges.
[J. Partridge, "The Widowes treasure," London 1585 - Leeds University,
Preston collection P/K1 1585.]
---= Morgan
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 08:41:55 -0500
From: "Jeff Gedney" <JGedney at dictaphone.com>
Subject: Re: RE: SC - what to do with extra egg yolks
> Another Idea you might consider is Meringe Powder, which is available
> wherever you buy cake supplies ( it is used for making some Icings )
> It is essentially dehydrated egg whites, keeps forever, and with the
> addition of a little water reconstitutes perfectly well to make any
> recipe calling for beaten egg whites.
If you have no cake supply places near you, try this link:
http://www.sweetc.com/ingrednt.htm#m
Note that a one pound can make 90 whites, so you will only need 16
dollars or so for 152 whites...
That is not much more expensive than whole eggs, and there is no
mess, broken yolks mixed in, pieces of shell, time spent separating.
Think about it.
brandu
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 16:22:28 -0500
From: Elaine Koogler <ekoogler at chesapeake.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Re: egg yolks and sanity
I was not in on the beginning of this string, but now that I know where it came
from, I offer a couple of suggestions that go beyond using whites in pies and
yolks in sauces. I have run across a couple of later period recipes that use
hard-boiled eggs in a fashion that, depending on the number of people at your
feast, would use up all that you have.
One comes from Epulario, The Italian Feast, published by Falconwood Press. It's
called "To dresse and fill Egges". It is a kind of stuffed egg affair where you
mix up the center as you would for deviled eggs, put the two halves of the egg
together, then fry them and serve with a sauce made of egg yolks, wine, vinegar,
sugar cloves and cinnamon, with a final addition of currants. It is absolutely
delightful and serves as a protein for vegetarians!
Another is from A Taste of History: 10,000 Years of Food in Britain. It's Eggs
with Mustard and is simply hard-boiled eggs, cut into quarters and served with a
mustard sauce. It is from the "Tudor Britain" section of the book, and was
found originally in The Widow's Treasure by J. Partridge. I plan to serve this
as part of an appetizer course at an upcoming Elizabethan feast.
Kiri
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 10:34:59 +0100
From: "Cindy M. Renfrow" <cindy at thousandeggs.com>
Subject: SC - Re: egg yolks and sanity
You could use them in your bread dough to enrich the bread. I used up
about 2 quarts of yolks that way for a feast in which we made creme
bastarde with the whites.
Cindy Renfrow/Sincgiefu
cindy at thousandeggs.com
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 11:32:28 -0500
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Welcome back, Gunthar! Was, Re: SC - what to do with extra egg yolks
"Michael F. Gunter" wrote:
> Start thinking up a solteltie. If you can slide the yolks into simmering
> water and hard cook them, could you do a tower of of them? Like a
> croquembusch? Not sure that's spelled right. Serve with one of the
> sauces P. recommends for eggs.
Ooh! Ooh! You reminded me! The Proper Newe Boke of Cookery has a recipe
mentioned frequently in several earlier texts, menus and such, but the
only actual recipe I've seen for Eggs in Moonshine involves poached egg
yolks (whole) served in a rosewater and sugar syrup. It is, as I say,
probably earlier than the 16th-century English source, but by default it
seems a little off-theme for the rest of the yolky feast.
Adamantius
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 08:30:15 -0700
From: Ronda Del Boccio <serian at uswest.net>
Subject: Re: SC - omelette for Ruffians & Harlots
I tried a new recipe yesterday from _The Medieval Kitchen_. It's a recipe titled as above. It comes out rather creamy,somewhere between the consistency of an omelette andcustard, and is most aromatic while cooking. Sort of like having eggs and orange juice all at once, and actually quite tasty. I followed the suggestion of the authors and usedlemon and orange.
Serian
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 09:13:50 -0500
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - strained eggs
Seton1355 at aol.com wrote:
> I've been sorting through my recipes. I note that several recipes talk about
> straining beaten eggs. Why is this?
It depends on the recipe. Are the eggs to be beaten, or do the recipes
just say to pass them through a strainer?
One obvious reason that comes to mind is that it will remove bits of
shell, chelezae (I _think_ that's what those stringy white shock
absorbers are called), possibly even embryos. Not to mention the odd bit
of feather or feces which could have found its way into the egg bowl via
the outer surface.
Some recipes also _may_ use the technique as a form of aeration. If you
push eggs (especially whites) through a strainer, they accumulate air
bubbles as the egg wraps itself around and through the little holes. Do
it enough times and you'll have an egg foam or sponge. On the other
hand, I'm not aware of any recipes that say to pass the eggs through a
strainer a specific number of times, so this is speculation. I'm just
making an observation, which may or may not be connected to the instruction.
As I say, it depends on the recipe.
Adamantius
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 10:12:41 -0700 (MST)
From: "Jamey R. Lathrop" <jlathrop at unm.edu>
Subject: SC - strained eggs
> I've been sorting through my recipes. I note that several recipes talk about
> straining beaten eggs. Why is this?
> Phillipa Seton
I'd often wondered about this too-- then, when looking at some modern
custard recipes in _The All New Joy of Cooking_ for comparison one night,
I came upon this:
"Warming the milk speeds the setting of the custard and
also dissolves the yolks and sugar, thereby liquefying the
custard and allowing it to be strained, so that the chalazes-- the
tough bands that anchor the yolks-- can be removed."
Since then, I've seen through experimentation, that even without the added
liquids-- if you put beaten eggs through a strainer, there is some last
little visible slimy bit that won't go through.
Allegra Beati
Outlands
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 13:31:00 EST
From: Mbatmantis at aol.com
Subject: SC - Re: egg straining
Eggs today are sold in grades. The lower the grade, the lower the clarity
of the whites. ( the grade is determined by the size and if the white has
those little stringies in them ) Since they would have no such system in
period, my guess is the reason is to separate the stringies.
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 14:44:48 -0500
From: "Nicholas Sasso" <njsasso at msplaw.com>
Subject: SC - Re: egg straining
>> Eggs today are sold in grades. The lower the grade, the lower the
clarity of the whites. ( the grade is determined by the size and if the white
has those little stringies in them ) Since they would have no such system
in period, my guess is the reason is to separate the stringies.<<
What I learned on Good Eats with Alton Brown is that grading is done by
computer mostly today, and is based on the consistancy of the albumin (the
whites). They showed a really cool shot of a man grading eggs be hand by
spinning the egg and holding it up to a light to see if the yolk keeps
rolling around or stops fairly quickly. The longer the yolk sloshes
around, the less viscous the white, the less fresh and the lower the
grade.
The difference in the grades is usually age. The USDA guy recommended
that lower grade eggs are quite edible as long as handled safely, but low
grade eggs may best be used in baking rather than frying since they will
run all over the place eventually.
niccolo difrancesco
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 10:41:21 EST
From: Mbatmantis at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Re: egg straining
USDA egg quality is determined by :
the shell (is it clean, unbroken and of normal shape),
Air cell (generally the smaller the air cell in the egg, the fresher the
egg-have you ever heard that you can test the freshness of an egg by
floating it in water? But since the air cell of an egg may be effected by
the humidity that the egg is stored in, this isn't an absolute way to judge
the age of an egg)
the white (the are judged on the clarity and firmness)
the yolk (looking for a yolk that is of uniform shape, only slightly
defined from the white -indicator of whites quality- and centered in the
shell)
The inside is seen by candling- the same process used to determine
fertilization.
I was wrong about the size determining the grade of the egg; that is it's
own separate category and is determined by weight.
R.
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 22:14:02 EDT
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Bukkenade and those darn eggs
Chris.Adler at westgroup.com writes:
<< Oh, drat. The "thicken with egg yolk" technique. I confess, I cannot get
this to work. I end up with broth enlivened with strands of scrambled
egg: rather like that soup you get in Chinese restaurants >>
You remove a bit of the hot liquid from the pot, add it to the eggs whisking
vigorously. You then slowly pour the egg yolks into the main dish stirring it
in vigorously. Immediately remove from heat and serve.
Ras
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 19:51:30 -0400
From: Elaine Koogler <ekoogler at chesapeake.net>
Subject: Re: SC - period egg sizes
Can't answer all of your questions, but I served a wonderful, VERY simple egg
dish at my event this past weekend...Sodde Egges (Eggs in a Mustard Sauce). And, as I know someone will ask, here is the recipe:
4 eggs
1 oz. Butter
1 tsp. prepared mustard
1 tsp. vinegar (I used white wine)
pinch of salt
pepper to taste
Boil eggs for 5 minutes. Meanwhile, lightly brown the butter in a saucepan and
allow it to cool a little before quickly stirring in the remaining ingredients.
Peel the eggs, quarter them and arrange them on a warm dish. Reheat the sauce
and pour it over the eggs immediately before serving.
Kiri
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 11:09:22 +0100
From: Christina Nevin <cnevin at caci.co.uk>
Subject: Re: SC - period egg sizes
Perry, obviously not having tooooo bad a day, asked:
> And finally, to help keep the topic period, what is everyone's favorite or
> most successful period dish where eggs are a primary ingredient?
I like this one from Forme of Cury:
Brewet of Ayren FoC.93
Take water and butter and seeth hem yfere with safroun and gobettes of
chese; wryng ayren thurgh a straynour. Whan the water hath soden a while,
take thenne the ayren and swyng hem with verious, and cast therto; set it
ouere the fire, and lat it not boile, and serue it forth.
For 4 people:
500 ml/17 fl oz Water
30 gm/1 oz Butter
aprx 8 strands Saffron, or to taste
200 gm/6.4 oz Cheese (Edam is good)
6 Eggs
Verjuice, or substitute a 1/2&1/2 lemon/water or vinegar/water mix
Redaction: Soak saffron in a tablespoon or so of luke warm water for half an
hour. Cut cheese into 'gobbets' (I suggest 1 inch cubes). Simmer together
water, butter, saffron and chunks of cheese. Put eggs through a strainer,
add the verjuice and then add to the water. Make sure the soup does not boil
or you will have scrambled eggs. You only want to lightly cook the eggs. The
verjuice will bring out the flavour of the cheese, so make certain you add
enough.
This is really easy to make, and always gets rave reviews, especially with
the cheese fanatics...
Al Servizio Vostro, e del Sogno
Lucrezia
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Lady Lucrezia-Isabella di Freccia | mka Tina Nevin
Thamesreach Shire, The Isles, Drachenwald | London, UK
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 19:17:12 EDT
From: Bronwynmgn at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - period egg sizes
Morses3 at aol.com writes:
<< And finally, to help keep the topic period, what is everyone's favorite or
most successful period dish where eggs are a primary ingredient? >>
The one I've been making all my life without knowing it was period:
>From the manuscript Harleian MS. 279, (circa 1430):
xlix. Hanoney. Take an draw ?e Whyte & ?e ?olkys of ?e Eyroun ?orw a
straynoure; ?an take Oynonys, & schrede hem smal; ?an take fayre Boter or
grece, & vnne?e kyuer ?e panne ?er-with, an frye ?e Onyonys, & ?an caste ?e
Eyroun in ?e panne, & breke ?e Eyrouns & ?e Oynonys to-gederys; an ?an lat
hem frye togederys a litel whyle; ?an take hem vp, an serue forth all
to-broke to-gederys on a fayre dyssche.
49. Hanoney. Take and draw the White & the yolks of the Eggs through a
strainer; then take Onions, & shred them small; then take fair Butter or
grease, & scarcely cover the pan therewith, and fry the Onions, & then cast
the Eggs in the pan, & break the Eggs & the Onions together; and then let
them fry together a little while; then take them up, and serve forth all
broken together on a fair dish.
(This is Cindy Renfrow's translation to modern English, from Take a Thousand
Eggs or More.)
Basically, fry onions in a little butter, then pour beaten eggs on top and
scramble them together.
Brangwayna Morgan
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 08:16:58 -0400
From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Unhistoric things we serve WAS:Shepherds Pie
And it came to pass on 11 May 00,, that Nick Sasso wrote:
> Around 10 recipes for scrambled eggs can be found in _The Neapolitan
> Recipe Collection_ very interesting varieties.
>
> niccolo
And Granado has recipes for fried eggs (sunny side up or over) and
poached eggs.
Lady Brighid ni Chiarain
Settmour Swamp, East (NJ)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 12:00:38 EDT
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Re: European/USA terminology
allilyn at juno.com writes:
<< The Europeans tend to stir things with an over and under motion, rather
than the American round and round. This does get confusing when
translating: German recipes will tell you to stir under, or over and
under. Just stir as you normally do. >>
For what its worth, with eggs the act of stirring over and under instead of
round and round tends to incorporate air into the mixture which makes the
resulting product lighter and fluffier when cooked.
Ras
Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 08:27:38 -0500
From: "Mary Lawson" <maryl at SaintMail.net>
Subject: SC - Recipe calling for use of pig's bladder
Giant Egg
A German recipe from a Basel manuscript (15th century).
A dish made of 30 to 40 eggs
For to make a dish of 30 eggs or 40 into one (big) egg, you must
take two pig's bladders, such that one of them is smaller than the
other. Wash them out carefully inside. Then take the eggs, remove the
shell, and separate the white from the yolk. Take the small pig's
bladder, mix the yolks and put them into the smaller bladder, so that
the bladder is full. Tie the bladder up carefully and give it into a
pot. Let boil, until the yolks get firm. Them put of the bladder from
the yolks.
Take the bigger bladder and cut the little hole in it, so that one
can put in the big yolk. Then you must sew up this hole of the bigger
bladder with the (big) yolk within. Then you have to mix up the white
of the eggs. Take a funnel, put it into the opening hole of the bigger
bladder and put the white of the eggs upon the yolk within the bigger
bladder, so that the bigger bladder gets full. Tie it up, put it into
the pot and let boil once more. The white of the eggs will boil around
the yolk, and there will be one big egg. You can serve it with a sauce
of vinegar.
Mary
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 03:41:27 +0200
From: Thomas Gloning <gloning at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE>
Subject: SC - Recipe calling for use of pig's bladder
Mary,
this version of the giant egg recipe -- where ever you have it from --
is an earlier translation I made. A slightly revised version together
with the 15th century German text and a few comments are at:
http://staff-www.uni-marburg.de/~gloning/erez-01.htm
Thomas
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 19:16:02 -0400
From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net>
Subject: Re: SC - a game for cooks...
And it came to pass on 1 Aug 00,, that Jeff Heilveil wrote:
> Platina (and before him martino) talks of eggs on a spit. I heard that
> someone tried it and it was messy.
I have not tried this, but in looking at the Platina recipe, I see that he
say to "pierce the eggs lengthwise with a well-heated spit".
Presumably the hot metal would coagulate the egg near the holes, so
that very little would be lost. I would be inclined to use something thin,
such as the metal skewers that are used for shish kebab.
Lady Brighid ni Chiarain
Settmour Swamp, East (NJ)
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 12:16:42 -0400
From: Christine A Seelye-King <mermayde at juno.com>
Subject: SC - Fresh Eggs
I was just reading through the School of Salerno publication, and came
across this reference to the healthy qualities of fresh eggs.
Christianna
81.
Eggs newly laid, are nutritive to eat,
And roasted rare are easy to digest.
Fresh Gascoigne wine is good to drink with meat,
Broth strengthens nature above all the rest.
But broth prepared with flour of finest wheat,
Well boiled, and full of fat for such are best.
The Priest's rule is (a Priest's rule should be true):
Those Eggs are best, are long, and white and new.
Remember eating new laid Eggs and soft,
For every Egg you eat you drink as oft.
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 16:34:09 -0500
From: Kay Loidolt <mmkl at indy.net>
Subject: SC - Re: sca-cooks V1 #2552
From: Par Leijonhufvud <parlei at algonet.se>
> Just heard that "fresh eggs are unhealty, they need to rest for a week
> or two before you eat them". No trace of this in any books I have looked
> in, anyone here know the truth?
Johann von Metten, poultrier, responds:
I have been studing poultry, eggs and such for almost 10years, I've
never heard this before the last year. In nearly every period
cookbook I've come across there is the greatest emphasis laid
on the freshest eggs possible!! The only exceptions are for
some pickled egg recipes, and some oriental recipes asking for
embreyonic eggs.
Supposedly some NUTS think that fertilized eggs are healthy/immoral/
etc... because they might contain embreyos!! Nonsense!! Even in ferile
eggs, nature has evolved so that an embreyo will not even form unless
the egg has been held at 100degrees F for 24 to 36 hours. This is what
gives the hen the ability to lay a large clutch and still have them
hatch all together.
In my book, Fresh is Best!! From my own birds, the best of all!!
Johann, poultrier
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 17:03:07 -0500
From: Kay Loidolt <mmkl at indy.net>
Subject: SC - Re: sca-cooks V1 #2616/ Period Eggs
Johann von Metten writes:
First,I remember trying to answer and address much of this question
before, and while I am not the all answer guy in regards to this
question (or anything else aside from my own opinion) I will try again.
EGGS COME FROM CHICKENS
When discussing eggs we must take the breed of chicken into
consideration first and then it's age and it's quality of feed!!!
I raise period breeds(5 kinds,including Jungle Fowl(the original genus
and species) of chickens and geese(1 breed so far, Old Embdens)
I feed them period grains and foods in the attempt and aim to produce
period eggs and flesh. I have tried very hard to research and use such
period sources as I can find and reproduce.
I have found that the strains of chickens which have survived to the
present day are limited, but seem to be reletively pure coming from
isolated communities where there was not a lot of 'improvement' in their
breeding.
The size of the eggs is directly linked to the size of the chicken that
laid it, so a small bird lays a small egg, a medium bird a medium egg
and a large bird a large egg.
Generally speaking from bone evidence from York and other buried cities,
such as Pompeii and others, bantam breeds which lay those small 'pee-wee
eggs, were not extensively developed until the late 1600's in the
lowlands. Looking at Dorking chicken bones from York and Pompeii, we see
a bird which is not at all distinguished from the rare bird known today.
So too the Scots Dumpy and the Persian Brahma as well as the Egyptian
Phayoumis(the smallest of the list) all are known birds from period, all
are sometimes rare, but exrent breeds today. All lay medium to large
eggs today and always have.
Granted, with the modern breeding of such birds as the Modern Leghorn
and RhodeIslandRed and their crosses, we can have much bigger eggs than
'normal' in period. That does not mean that they didn't have them, just
that they were not common.
In the past I have used the formula that as Jumbos would have been rare
I would make the Large, Jumbo, and the Mediums, Large and so forth.