cuskynoles-msg - 3/30/08
A medieval fruit-filled ravioli-like pasta dish which was the subject of several long, heated discussions on the SCA-Cooks mail list. One of the few period recipes which includes a diagram.
NOTE: See also the files: dumplings-msg, pasta-msg, flour-msg, fruits-msg, fd-Italy-msg.
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Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 12:17:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gretchen M Beck <grm+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: SC - Cuskynoles
See Constance Hiett's article in Speculum from the mid-1980s --
Anglo-Norman Culinary Collections. They include two recipes--one titled
Ravioli and the other Kuskenole-- (of which I failed to copy the
originals, but here are the translations):
Ravioli -- Here is another kind of dish, which is called ravoili. Take
fine flour and sugar and make pasta dough; take good cheese and butter
and cream them together, then take parsley, sage, and shallots, chop
thenm finely and put them in the filling (i.e. the cheese and butter);
put the boiled ravioli on a bed of grated cheese and cover them with
more grated cheese, and then reheat them (?)
Kuskenole - Here is a dish which is called kuskenole. Make pastry with
eggs; then take figs, raisins, pears, and apples, and then dates and
almonds; beat together and add good mixed ground spice and whole spices.
In Lent, make your pastry with almonds. Roll your pastry out on a
table and cut into several pieces, one and a half hands long and three
fingers in width; then grease the pastry on one side; then put the
filling in, dividing it equally among the cakes; then fold together as
this diagram illustrates (presumably folding over the pastry and
pressing or crimping the edges together, as with ravioli), then boil in
clean water; then brown on a griddle, etc.
toodles, margaret
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 15:58:06 -0500
From: "Philippa Alderton" <phlip at bright.net>
Subject: Re: SC - cuskinolds
Cuskynoles have been a subject of much debate here on the List, leading to
almost acrimonius exchanges between two gentles of differing opinions. My
opinion is that they are essentially fruit ravioli- here is the recipe from
Diuersa Cibaria, # 45, in Hieatt and Butler's1985 edition of Curye on
Inglysch, so that you may make your own opinion. (th) as usual, indicates
the letter "thorn".
A mete (th)at is icleped cuskynoles. Make a past tempred wi(th) ayren, &
so(th)(th)en nim peoren & applen, figes & reysins, alemaundes & dates; bet
am togedere & do god poudre of gode speces wi(th)innen. & in leynten make
(th)i past wi(th) milke of alemaundes, & rolle (th)i past on a bord, &
so(th)(th)en hew hit on moni perties, & vche an pertie beo of (th)e
leyn(th)e of a paume & an half & of (th)reo vyngres of brede. & smeor (th)y
past al of one dole, & so(th)(th)en do (th)i fassure wi(th)innen. | Vchan
kake is portiooun. & so(th)(th)en veld togedere o(th)e 3eolue manere, ase
(th)eos fugurre is imad:
______________________________________
| . | . | . | . | . |
|______|_______|______|______|_______|
| . | . | . | . | . |
|______|_______|______|______|_______|
| . | . | . | . | . |
|______|_______|______|______|_______|
& so(th)(th) boille in veir water, & so(th)(th) en rost on an greudil: &
so(th)(th)en adresse.
Have fun ;-)
Phlip
Caer Frig
Barony of the Middle Marches
Middle Kingdom
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 21:58:33 -0800
From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Subject: Re: SC - cuskinolds
At 1:04 PM -0800 12/22/98, Vicki Strassburg wrote:
> I, too, missed the great debate! (but
>I assume it's along the lines of potatoes and feastocrats).
Not at all. It was about whether, when working from the only recipe in the
whole corpus of 13th-15th Anglo-Norman cookery to include an illustration,
you should ignore the illustration.
For the other side, ask Adamantius.
Our version of Cuskynoles, from the Miscellany, follows.
- ---
Cuskynoles
Curye on Inglysch p. 52 (Diuersa Cibaria no. 45)
A mete that is icleped cuskynoles. Make a past tempred with ayren, &
soththen nim peoren & applen, figes & reysins, alemaundes & dates; bet am
togedere & do god poudre of gode speces withinnen. & in leynten make thi
past with milke of alemaundes. & rolle thi past on a bord, & soththen hew
hit on moni perties, & vche an pertie beo of the leynthe of a paume & an
half & of threo vyngres of brede. & smeor thy past al of one dole, &
soththen do thi fassure withinnen. Vchan kake is portiooun. & soththen veld
togedere othe zeolue manere, ase theos fugurre is imad:
& soththe boille in veir water, & soththen rost on an greudil; & soththen
adresse.
Modernized English: A meat that is named cuskynoles. Make a paste tempered
with eggs, & so then take pears & apples, figs & raisins, almonds & dates;
beat them together & do good powder of good spices within. & in Lent make
thy paste with milk of almonds. & roll thy paste on a board, & so then hew
it in many parts, & each part be of the length of a palm & a half & of
three fingers of breadth. & smear thy paste all on one half, & so then do
thy filling within. Each cake is a portion. & so then fold together of the
same manner, as this figure is made: [see above] & so then boil in fair
water, & so then roast on a griddle; & so then dress.
Filling: one ripe pear (7 oz) 4 oz whole, unblanched almonds 1 1/2 t nutmeg
one cooking apple (7 oz) 4 oz pitted dates 1 t cloves
4 oz figs 1 1/2 t cinnamon 1/2 t ginger
4 oz raisins
Wash and core apple and pear but do not peel. Cut figs into 2 or 3 pieces
each. Use a food processor or mortar and pestle to reduce the ingredients
to a uniform mush.
Pastry: 1 1/2 c flour 1/4 c water 1 beaten egg
Stir cold water into flour, stir in egg, stir and knead until smooth. Roll
out as two 12"x15" sheets. Cut each sheet into 10 6"x3" pieces. Spread 1 T
of filling on one piece and put another piece over it, making a sandwich of
dough, filling, dough. Using the back of a thick knife, press the edges
together to seal them, then press along the lines shown in the figure,
giving a 6"x3" "cake" made up of fifteen miniature fruit filled ravioli,
joined at their edges. Boil about 4 minutes, then broil at a medium
distance from the burner about 4 minutes a side, watching to be sure they
do not burn.
David Friedman
Professor of Law
Santa Clara University
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 07:10:44 -0500
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - cuskinolds
david friedman wrote:
> It was about whether, when working from the only recipe in the
> whole corpus of 13th-15th Anglo-Norman cookery to include an illustration,
> you should ignore the illustration.
There's no question of ignoring the illustration, merely an attempt to
establish a likely scale (since no clear indication is given in the
recipe) and a method of accomplishing it (since no clear indication is
given in the recipe). It's enough to make one wish for a clear
illustration for several other recipes, such as Teste de Turt, for
example, but seeing what they accomplished with the cuskynoles recipe,
it's understandable they would be a little hesitant.
Basically my interpretation calls for one kind of Wishful Thinking(TM), and
His Grace's, another. Do you manufacture information that the recipe
fails to provide in such a way as to take the recipe in one direction,
or another?
Each of us feels the other is engaging in Wild Speculation(TM), while we
ourselves are serious redactors. Oil and water, cats and dogs, Bugs and
Elmer, that sort of thing. If there were genuine equilibrium in the
Universe, it would collapse again.
> For the other side, ask Adamantius.
Aaargghhh! Multi-celled cuskynoles are an affront to god and man! They
must be stopped! Foam. Snarl. Snap. Foam.
Seriously, though, I'm only trying to describe, as best I can, the
nature of our disagreement, without picking it up again. There's nothing
new being said here, and I believe the whole thing is archived
somewhere.
Adamantius
Østgardr, East
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 15:39:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gretchen M Beck <grm+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: SC - period fruit pastries
Excerpts from internet.listserv.sca-cooks: 28-Apr-99 Re: SC - period
fruit pastries by david friedman at best.com
> Cuskynoles are a recipe in _Curye on Inglysche_ from a late 13th c. source.
> They are, so far as I know, the only recipe in the whole 13th-15th c.
> French/English corpus that come with an illustration, a drawing that is
> supposed to show how they are made.
The recipe for Cresse in MS. B.L Additional 32085 (from Anglo-Norman
Culinary Collections, by Constance Hieatt and Robin F Jones) includes a
small diagram for assembling the dish.
toodles, margaret
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 14:14:17 -0700
From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Subject: RE: SC - Cuskynoles
At 2:58 PM -0400 8/20/99, Mary_HallSheahan at ademco.com wrote:
>I would indeed like to see the two interpretations, particularly because I
>know the recipe & love the ingredients but was completely bamboozled by the
>verbs.
Basically, the disagreement is on the construction of a cuskynole.
Adamantius thinks it is a ravioli. I think it is what you would get if you
took a very large ravioli, containing a thin layer of filling, then pressed
the two layers of dough together with the back of a knife or something
similar in a gridwork pattern, giving you one "ravioli" made out of about a
3x5 grid of little raviolis attached at the edges. I think his
interpretation is inconsistent with the diagram; he doesn't.
You can find my version in the Miscellany, available online.
David/Cariadoc
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 13:04:11 -0500
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Introduction
BanAvtai at aol.com wrote:
> I have always been far too terrified to ask what the C word meant....
It is written:
Lo, and there shall come a mighty cuskynole upon the earth, and it shall
be made from a thin sheet of dough, cut into many pieces, and a filling
shall be made from a mixture of fresh and dried fruits and nuts, crushed
in a mortar. And the filling shall be applied to the dough, and the
dough shall be wrapped around it and sealed thusly according to a
diagram that is hard to reproduce in ASCII text, after which the said
cuskies shall be boiled, thereafter roasted on a gridiron, and served
forth to the righteous. And in those days giants walked the earth, and
there was dissention and strife among them concerning the meaning of the
diagram, and the One True Way to make cuskynoles.
And the giants fought not once, but many times, over a period of many
centuries, uprooting trees and laying waste the land, while men and
women cowered behind large rocks (but not Margali's rock) like the
little kids in baseball caps in Japanese monster movies...
After centuries of bloody war, the giants did reach an accord whereby we
Don't Go There, and while many do speak of cuskynoles in whispered
voices in the dark of night, no man dares invoke their name in the
bright light of day...
That's about it, huh, folks?
Adamantius
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 18:50:16 EST
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Cuskeynoles
Aldyth at aol.com writes:
<< then thaw them in the morning, boil them >>
I would drop them frozen into the boiling water to avoid a gooey mess.
Pre-frozen ravioli usually recommend boiling from the frozen state and the
end product is much tastier. Cuskynoles are merely fruit filled ravioli, no
more, no less. The method of construction may be 'controversial' but the end
product is virtually the same either way.
Ras
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 20:46:43 -0600
From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Cuskeynoles
At 8:47 PM -0500 2/4/00, Aldyth at aol.com wrote:
>BTW, is there a problem with using apricots as a filling for cuskynoles? I
>was wondering if there is a corelation between cuskynoles and the fried pies
>that my grandma made in Arkansas and Missouri. She tried to tell me they
>were english food, from a bunch of people who moved to the south when they
>first colonized. Any truth to this?
Cuskynoles are from a 14th-century English recipe; apricots are not
mentioned in the cookbook they come from, nor in any of the other
English 14th-century cookbooks collected in _Curye on Inglisch_. I
don't remember any recipes using apricots in any of the other 14th or
15th c. English cookbooks I've run across, either, although there are
lots of references to other dried fruit. The earliest mention of
apricots grown in England in Anne Wilson's _Food and Drink in
Britain_ is 1548 (the writer described it as "an hasty peach", being
like earlier-ripening peaches). The actual fruits and nuts specified
in the cuskynoles recipe are pears, apples, figs, raisins, almonds,
and dates.
For everyone who has been asking, here is the original recipe under dispute:
A mete that is icleped cuskynoles. Make a past tempred with ayren, &
sothen nim peoren & applen, figes & reysins, alemaundes & dates; bet
am togedere & do god poudre of gode speces withinnen. & in leynten
make thi past with milke of alemaundes. & rolle thi past on a bord, &
sothen hew hit on moni perties, & vche an pertie beo of the leynthe
of a paume & an half & of threo vyngres of brede. & smeor thy past al
of one dole, & sothen do thi fassure withinnen. Vchan kake is
portiooun. & sothen veld togedere othe zeolue manere, ase theos
fugurre is imad:
[the picture in question is a rectangular grid, five rectangles
across and three vertically, with a dot in the center of each little
rectangle]
& sothe boille in veir water, & sothen rost on an greudil; & sothen
adresse. [thorns replaced by th's]
And for those who prefer their Middle English at least semi-translated:
A food that is named cuskynoles. Make a paste [dough] tempered with
eggs, & so then take pears & apples, figs & raisins, almonds & dates;
beat them together & do good powder of good spices within. & in Lent
make thy paste with milk of almonds. & roll thy paste on a board, &
so then hew it in many parts, & each part be of the length of a palm
& a half & of three fingers of breadth. & smear thy paste all of one
deal [half? portion?], & so then do thy filling withinn. Each cake is
portion. & so then fold together of the self manner, as this figure
is made:
[see note above]
& so then boil in fair water, & so then roast on a griddle; & so then
dress [arrange for serving].
Elizabeth of Dendermonde/Betty Cook
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 23:33:12 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: Authenticity, philosophy, and advocacy (was Re: SC - questions)
Bonne of Traquair wrote:
> Chin up, Morgana, this group has a lot of people who want to make sure
> their meaning is absolutely clear, and that they tuly understand what the
> other person is saying. That takes a lot of verbage and a lot of bandwidth.
> But it never comes to blows. Not even over cuskynoles. (which I beleive is
> cooks code for'are we done with this dead horse?')
Actually, we're not. Upon looking at the cuskynole recipe in its French
form in the 13th century Anglo-Norman BL MS ADD 32085, of which BL Add.
46919 (He), also known as Diuersa Cibaria, appears to be, in part, a
translated copy, I see that the text in French seems a great deal more
specific, and much clearer in Hieatt's English translation. Also that
the illustration in 46919, presumably copied accurately for Curye On
Inglysh, looks suspiciously like the illustration from a completely
different recipe in the earlier source... .
I'll leave you in fearful anticipation until I get a chance to provide
more details. I know you can't wait.
Adamantius
Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 00:29:02 -0500
From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Subject: Re: Authenticity, philosophy, and advocacy (was Re: SC - questions)
At 11:33 PM -0400 6/16/00, Philip & Susan Troy wrote:
[In his most audacious bluff since the cuskynole heresy began]
>Actually, we're not. Upon looking at the cuskynole recipe in its French
>form in the 13th century Anglo-Norman BL MS ADD 32085, of which BL Add.
>46919 (He), also known as Diuersa Cibaria, appears to be, in part, a
>translated copy, I see that the text in French seems a great deal more
>specific, and much clearer in Hieatt's English translation. Also that
>the illustration in 46919, presumably copied accurately for Curye On
>Inglysh, looks suspiciously like the illustration from a completely
>different recipe in the earlier source... .
>
>I'll leave you in fearful anticipation until I get a chance to provide
>more details. I know you can't wait.
The French text reads:
"e pus plier ensemble come cel signe est fet:" [followed by a 3x3 grid].
The English translation reads"
"then fold together as this diagram illustrates."
The Diuersa Cibaria versions reads:
& soththen veld togedere othe zeolue manere, ase theos fuguree is
imad": [followed by a 3x5 grid]--"th" for thorn and "z" for the
squiggly letter whose name I have forgotten.)
The only relevant difference is that one author thinks the grid is
3x3 and one 3x5.
You are still left defending the position that, when redacting one of
the two recipes in the corpus (I admit I had missed the other) that
has a picture of how to make it, we should ignore the picture and
make ravioli instead. I eagerly await your redaction of
cressee--lasagna perhaps?
David/Cariadoc
http://www.daviddfriedman.com/
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 22:39:01 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: SC - Kuskenole - was, Authenticity, philosophy, and advocacy
david friedman revs up the CD of Steve Martin and Martin Short singing
"Playing With The Big Boys Now", and writes in his scariest tones:
> At 11:33 PM -0400 6/16/00, Philip & Susan Troy wrote:
> [In his most audacious bluff since the cuskynole heresy began]
Oh, come now, the night is young!
Quoting me:
> >Actually, we're not. Upon looking at the cuskynole recipe in its French
> >form in the 13th century Anglo-Norman BL MS ADD 32085, of which BL Add.
> >46919 (He), also known as Diuersa Cibaria, appears to be, in part, a
> >translated copy, I see that the text in French seems a great deal more
> >specific, and much clearer in Hieatt's English translation. Also that
> >the illustration in 46919, presumably copied accurately for Curye On
> >Inglysh, looks suspiciously like the illustration from a completely
> >different recipe in the earlier source... .
> >
> The French text reads:
>
> "e pus plier ensemble come cel signe est fet:" [followed by a 3x3 grid].
>
> The English translation reads"
>
> "then fold together as this diagram illustrates."
Indeed it does. The entire English translation says, discounting
bracketted material from Hieatt:
"25. Kuskenole [pastries with fruit filling]. Here is a dish which is
called kuskenole. Make pastry with eggs; then take figs, raisins, pears,
and apples, and then dates and almonds; beat together and add good mixed
ground spice and whole spices. In Lent, make your make your pastry with
almonds [i.e. almond butter or cream]. Roll your pastry out on a table
and cut into several pieces, one and a half hands long and three fingers
in width; then grease the pastry on one side; then put the filling in,
dividing it equally among the cakes; then fold together as this diagram
illustrates [presumably folding over the p[astry and pressing or
crimping the edges together, as with ravioli]; then boil in clean water,
then brown on a griddle, etc."
> The Diuersa Cibaria versions reads:
>
> & soththen veld togedere othe zeolue manere, ase theos fuguree is
> imad": [followed by a 3x5 grid]--"th" for thorn and "z" for the
> squiggly letter whose name I have forgotten.)
>
> The only relevant difference is that one author thinks the grid is
> 3x3 and one 3x5.
Bzzzt! I'm sorry, I'm afraid that's incorrect, but we have some lovely
parting gifts for Your Grace, including the Cuskynole Board Game from
Parker Brothers! The differences are more than that. As you say, one is
3x3, one is 3x5. One (the 3x3) lacks the mysterious dots found in the
other, 3x5 version, which I believe you have interpreted as indicating
the presence of filling. Could be. We don't seem to know. One (the 3x3) is
clearly not in the proportions stated in the recipe, _unless_ it
represents a single unit with the sheet of pastry folded in half over
the filling. The other (the 3x5) does seem to be in proportion to the
hand (or palm) and a half by three fingers, but it also bears more
resemblance to the illustration in the cressee recipe (in 32085) than it does to
the kuskenole recipe (in 32085).
I would not be at all surprised if some transposition and omission, as described by Rudolf Grewe in connection with copied manuscripts of the Harpestrang cookbook, has taken place, and that what we are seeing is the cressee illustration, or some variant thereof. Even assuming the illustration is of one
kuskenole, rather than several, which I had theorized as a possibility,
there is no indication of where the filling is, and whether it is in all
nine squares of the 3x3 grid, or simply in the center square. If that's
one kuskenole, it's quite possible that the illustration represents a
filled square made from a roughly two-inch-by-four rectangle, with egg
wash or water brushed on one half of it, the filling added, and the
pastry folded over (reducing the measured rectangle to a square,
roughly) and crimped around the four sides (leaving four pressure
marks/lines from a stick, the edge of a hand, or even the back of a
heavy kitchen knife).
> You are still left defending the position that, when redacting one of
> the two recipes in the corpus (I admit I had missed the other)
Quite a magnaninous admission, considering that you're deliberately
misrepresenting what I've repeatedly said. (For the folks in our studio
audience, please understand that I am a skilled pain in the arse, and
that His Grace is a professional argumentative kvetch, who, I gather,
produces other professional argumentative kvetches for his livelihood,
and that none of the above represents animosity. It is my belief that
His Grace would adhere to more strict formal debate methods, which would
preclude cheating, i.e. deliberately ignoring what I say and putting
words in my mouth to present my POV in the worst possible light, were
this a professional situation. Picture us in a bar, arguing over
[perhaps too much] beer.) Note also that there are now at least three
illustrations in the total corpus, and yes, one appears to be a
duplicate of one of the others. The trouble is that there's a fairly
good chance that it is a duplicate of the wrong one.
Anyway, what I have, in fact, said with tiresome frequency is not that
the illustration should be ignored, but that it does not, could not,
depict the recipe (originally we were talking about the early
14th-century English version) as written, without a moderately complex
set of added instructions helpfully manufactured by His Grace out of
thin air. (See? Now I'm doing it.) We are instructed, in His Grace's
adapted recipe, to spread the filling onto the dough, either folding it
over or adding a second layer, sealing the edges, and then pressing a
grid of
additional sutures onto the upper surface with the back of a heavy knife
(presumably and sensibly so as not to cut the pastry) to subdivide our
pop-tart-like structure into something resembling a Cadbury fruit bar, a
large rectangle divided into several smaller cells. The fact that this
is somewhat chancy in a bulk cookery setting (in boiling, the internal
seals would have a powerful tendency to burst open, turning the cake
back into a single cell), added to the fact that no such instructions
are given in either recipe, make me suspect that there is perhaps a
better interpretation. Note that I'm not saying that the above is not
how the dish was made, I'm saying that it _may_ have been made that way,
and that it _may_ have been made another way. His Grace, ever resembling
Saint Jerome in these matters, politely suggests I am full of poop.
Originally, having seen only the later English recipe with the 3x5 grid,
I had envisioned the possibility that the illustration depicted several
cuskynoles grouped as in the sheet they are cut from. The problem with
this is that that would indicate that the instructions aren't followed
in sequence (instructions are to roll out dough, cut into pieces, fill
and fold/seal). However, since there are other examples in the
recipe corpus that show instructions clearly given out of sequence
(thicken the sauce with eggs, sprinkle with good spices, serve, don't
let the sauce come to a boil, and in Lent you can use almond milk --
that sort of thing), I'm prepared to accept a calculated risk, which is
exactly what His Grace has done in postulating the whole "back of a
heavy knife" thing.
> that has a picture of how to make it, we should ignore the picture and
> make ravioli instead.
See above. With respect, bulldinky. It is true that my finished version
does resemble square ravioli in shape, but what you're missing (or
rather seeing and pretending not to) is that I have not set out to prove
that cuskynoles are ravioli (although you appear to have dedicated a
chunk of your life to proving they're not) but rather that there is some
inherent confusion, some loose ends, in the total picture of
recipe-plus-illustration, and in trying to tie up the loose ends, we are
logically led to more than one interpretation. One of which is the
possibility that the dish looks like a squarish ravioli. Rather than
ignoring the illustration, something I have never done, I simply ask how
the instructions as written could produce something that looks like the
illustration. You've supplied an extra set of instructions to make it
work, I posited the theory that the instructions may be out of order and
that the later illustration may not be a single, finished cuskynole.
(I'm not alone in this; see Hieatt in both published sources...) As it
happens, the earlier illustration, despite spurious claims from those
who should know better, could not possibly represent the dimensions as
stated in the recipe, unless folded (or cut) in half, which is how you
would get a near-square from the rectangle described. So, in either
case, the "back of the heavy knife" thing is an unnecessary
complication. That doesn't mean it's not how it was done. But then
Darwinism is not period.
Bottom line is that I have failed to convince you (Are you shocked? I
am shocked!) that the recipe plus illustration _could_ represent _either_ a
Cadbury Fruit Bar or something shaped like a ravioli. My leaning towards
the ravioli interpretation is based on years of experience filling large
quantities of pasta sheets and boiling them (question: how many times
have you actually cooked this dish?), combined with a fair amount of
experience with the ways in which medieval recipes can be incomplete
or confusing, and why, along with the most telling argument, that the
simplest explanation that can be made to fit a given set of
circumstances is, more often than not, the correct one. You have not logically proven this idea wrong, in spite of the fact that I'm perfectly prepared to
admit your interpretation is possibly correct, and have never seriously
criticized it (well, perhaps not until now) except to say it is not the
only viable explanation. Hey, I'm doing some of your work here!
Now, an additional piece to ponder is the fact that the illustration has
changed between the 13th and 14th-century sources. The newer one is more
or less in keeping with the proportions given in the recipe, but it has
changed from the earlier version. The earlier one is not in keeping with
the stated proportions, but does look like what would happen if you took
the measured piece of dough, brushed some sticky stuff on it, added
filling, folded it over and sealed it. The later one is conceivably
based on an unknown version earlier than either manuscript, and could
conceivably be the "correct", canonical version, but we have no real
evidence of that, and when combined with the fact that it looks rather
like the drawing for the earlier cressee recipe, it seems quite possible
it is an error.
> I eagerly await your redaction of cressee--lasagna perhaps?
Now that, of course, would be far beneath Your Grace's dignity if you
weren't joking, but if you'd like to discuss cressee I'm happy to. For
example, the recipe says, IIRC, to roll and cut the paste to a finger's
thickness, or some such. Is that just a reference to width and not
thickness, or does the combination of softer wheats and longer cooking
times make this gnocchi-ish pasta a little more of a real possibility?
Pehaps this is why some later pasta recipes speak of boiling it for an
hour... .
Adamantius, who admits to simply not knowing for sure, but who also is
not pathologically terrified that the dish might in some way resemble a
modern food
- --
Phil & Susan Troy
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 00:25:00 -0500
From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Kuskenole - was, Authenticity, philosophy, and advocacy
At 10:39 PM -0400 6/21/00, Philip & Susan Troy wrote:
>The differences are more than that. As you say, one is
>3x3, one is 3x5. One (the 3x3) lacks the mysterious dots found in the
>other, 3x5 version, which I believe you have interpreted as indicating
>the presence of filling. Could be. We don't seem to know.
Assuming that you, like me, are relying on the version published in
Speculum, I don't think we can make confident statements about the
details of the figure--as shown it's pretty small. Are images of the
original manuscript accessible somewhere? We may both be basing
parts of our argument on how 20th century people decided to represent
the 13th or 14th c. figures.
Also, suppose we assume that Anglo-Norman doesn't have dots and
Diursa does. One possibility is that the figure in Diuersa was drawn
by someone who knew more than we do about what the recipe
meant--perhaps he had frequently eaten cuskynoles--and was improving
the figure to make it clearer.
What strikes me about the comparison between the figures in the two
sources is that the drawing in Diursa is substantially larger and
clearer than either of the drawings in Anglo-Norman. But I don't know
if that is actually a difference in the manuscripts, or only in the
modern editions. Does anyone else here know?
>One (the 3x3) is
>clearly not in the proportions stated in the recipe, _unless_ it
>represents a single unit with the sheet of pastry folded in half over
>the filling.
I don't know what the evidence is on the meaning of "hand," but an
obvious guess seems to be that it is the width of a palm, since that
way "finger" is a natural subdivision--four fingers to the palm. On
that reading the piece starts 6 fingers by 3 fingers. You fold it in
half lengthwise, giving a square 3 fingers by 3 fingers. Then, on my
interpretation, you press down on that square with the back edge of a
knife or something similar twice in each direction, giving a 3x3 grid
of squares, each 1 finger square. You now have a single square piece,
as shown, with the pattern impressed on it, as shown.
The 3x3 picture doesn't seem to make any sense if we instead assume
that the picture represented the dough as cut. If that is what is
going on, we should be seeing a 3x6 piece of dough, marked with
squares (or rectangles if each is going to be folded in half to give
a square raviole). Nor does it work if we instead assume that the
figure shows the constructed ravioles sitting in the position in
which they had been cut. If that is what is going on, either they
should be 3x6 rectangles (if each raviole is assembled from two
pieces of dough) or they should be 3x3 squares, separated by 3x3
blanks, since each 3x6 piece of dough has now been folded in half.
I think you offered both of those conjectures as possibilities in the
earlier round of the discussion.
>The other (the 3x5) does seem to be in proportion to the
>hand (or palm) and a half by three fingers,
Which fits your conjectures better than mine, no? On my theory, the
pattern is embossed after the dough is folded, and the picture is
showing the pattern. So the dough has already been folded in half and
should be square.
The only way I can think of to fit the 3x5 to the text and my
interpretation is to assume that you are taking two 3x6 pieces,
putting bits of filling in a 3x5 pattern on one, putting the other on
top, and sealing along the lines. I wouldn't describe that as "fold
together," but then I'm not a native speaker of Middle
English--perhaps "veld" included sticking things together. I looked
up "weld" in the OED, but couldn't find any evidence that "veld"
could be a variant of it.
> but it also bears more
>resemblance to the illustration in the cressee recipe (in 32085) than it
>does to the kuskenole recipe (in 32085).
So you are suggesting that the kuskenole recipe in Anglo-Norman,
whose picture fits my theory, has the correct picture, while the
picture in Diursa is miscopied from cressee? That's fine with me.
But I'm not sure I find it convincing, much as I would like to. It's
true that the figure in Anglo-Norman for cressee is shown orthogonal
rather than diagonal, like the figure for cuskynoles in Diursa. But
it is also true that the figures for cuskynoles in the two
manuscripts are 3x3 and 3x5, while cressee is 4x8. Miscopying a 3x3
grid as 3x5 strikes me as at least as likely a mistake as
simultaneously assigning the figure to the wrong picture and
miscopying 4x8 as 3x5--probably more likely.
And note that the figure with cressee doesn't have dots in the
squares--at least as shown in Speculum.
>Even assuming the illustration is of one
>kuskenole, rather than several, which I had theorized as a possibility,
>there is no indication of where the filling is, and whether it is in all
>nine squares of the 3x3 grid, or simply in the center square. If that's
>one kuskenole, it's quite possible that the illustration represents a
>filled square made from a roughly two-inch-by-four rectangle, with egg
>wash or water brushed on one half of it, the filling added, and the
>pastry folded over (reducing the measured rectangle to a square,
>roughly) and crimped around the four sides (leaving four pressure
>marks/lines from a stick, the edge of a hand, or even the back of a
>heavy kitchen knife).
You are now almost to my interpretation. In both our versions, if we
label vertical lines 0-3, lines 0 and 3 are the edge of the
cuskynole, while 1 and 2 are linear impressions made by something
like the back edge of a knife (what I actually use for making
cuskynoles). But in your version, all of the filling is between lines
1 and 2, while in mine it is between 0 and 1, 1 and 2, 2 and 3 (and,
of course, between the corresponding horizontal lines as well). Yours
is possible, but there are two problems with it:
1. The figure, so far as we can tell (Diursa is clearer, because
bigger, although I don't know if that represents a difference in the
manuscript or only the modern publication), shows equally spaced
lines. That makes sense for my version. But on yours, you would
expect a close double line along the edge (edge and crimping--between
lines 0 and 1 and lines 2 and 3), and a significant space between
lines 1 and 2 where the filling is. Don't you think it odd to use a
symmetrical drawing for such an unsymmetrical situation?
2. Your explanation doesn't explain why the figure exists in the
first place, since the figure isn't telling you anything beyond "fold
it into a square and seal down the edges." But on my interpretation,
the figure is actually necessary to explain the pattern of what is
being done.
Finally, coming back to the figure in Diursa, the pattern of dots