cooking-msg - 3/22/94
This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.
This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org
I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.
The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.
Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).
Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous
Stefan at florilegium.org
From: akatlas at athena.mit.edu (Alia Atlas)
Subject: Re: Medieval German Cooking
Date: 11 Apr 1993 23:03:01 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Greetings onto the Rialto from Caterina Sichling.
Seeing that there is such interest in Daz Buch von Guter Spise, I
have decided to post to the Rialto, rather than try to respond to
everyone individually. In addition, if anyone has heard anything from
Edelgard, please let me know. I wrote her several weeks ago and have
not heard back, and I am most interested in talking with her.
In ref to this recipebook, I am working on the second draft of my
translation of Daz Buch von Guter Spise. The final version will,
hopefully, be ready by Pennsic, and I will certainly post to the
Rialto when it is finished. If all goes well, it will be included in
Cariadoc's cookbook collection.
This past November, the feast at Ein Festtag in Nuremberg was cooked
almost entirely out of Daz Buch von Guter Spise. It was received very
well. I am forward to continuing work both on this book and on other
German cookbooks, and am eagerly seeking anyone who is similiarly
interested, particularly if they are also interested in the
For your pleasure, here is the original and my translation of the
introductory poem to Daz Buch von Guter Spise:
Dis buch sagt von guter spise
daz machet die unverrihtigen k"oche wise.
Ich wil iuch underwisen
von den kochespisen
der sin niht versten kan
der sol diz buch sehen an
wie er groz gerihte k"unne machen
von vil kleinen sachen.
dise lere merke er vil eben
die im diz duch wil geben
wann ez kan wol berihten
von manigerleie gerihten
von grozzen und von kleinen
wie sie sich vereinen
und wie sie sich besachen
daz sie klein getrahte zu hoher spise machen
der sol diz buch vernemen
und sol sich nicht enschemen
ob er fraget dez er niht enkan
des bescheit in scheir ein wiser man
wer denne kochen welle lerne
der sol diz buch merken gerne.
My translation (Copyright 1993 Alia Atlas):
This book speaks of good food.
It makes the ignorant cook wise.
I want to teach you
of the cooking arts.
He who cannot understand them
should look at this book.
How he can make great dishes
from many small things,
he who remembers this learning very carefully,
which will be given in this book!
For it can well teach
of many dishes
of great and of small,
how they combine themselves
and how they see to it
that they make insignificant bits into noble foods.
He should take this book
and should not be ashamed
if he asks about what he does not know.
This decision makes him quickly a wiser man,
who then wants to learn to cook.
He should mark well this book.
Caterina Sichling von Nuremberg
mka Alia Atlas
akatlas at athena.mit.edu
From: TALLAN at flis.utoronto.CA (David Tallan)
Subject: norms and spices
Date: 12 Jul 1993 15:20:37 -0400
I believe that Greg/Hossein posted recently:
indeed, my lady wife is working on a comparison of tastes in
ingredients in those centuries (13th, 14th and 15th) in those
cuisines (French and English) and I shall undertake statistical
comparison of the central tendencies of each of those cuisines,
when she has completed the data collection, in order to analyze
changes in taste and implications in market availability of
Recently another thread was discussing bibliographies. If I might
take this opportunity to recommend an article included in my own
small bibliography of materials on medieval culinary matters.
Bruno Laurioux "Spices in the Medieval Diet: A New Approach" in
_Food and Foodways_ 1985, Vol.1, pp.43-76.
In this article he appears to cover much of the area that you intend
to cover (albeit he limits himself to spices).
As I am not a PhD in Medieval History, I would not presume to judge
his academic credentials or the rigour of his analysis. Nevertheless,
it would seem to me to be certainly worth reading for anyone about to
embark on such a project.
Wishing both Hossein/Greg and his lady wife all the best in their
endeavor, and with best wishes to anyone else interested in medieva;
culinary matters who might read this, I remain,
David Tallan/Thomas Grozier
David Tallan (tallan at flis.utoronto.ca)
or David_Tallan at magic-bbs.corp.apple.com
snail: 42 Camberwell Rd. Toronto ON M6C 3E8
From: SHORE at pp.okstate.edu (Anthony Shore)
Subject: Re: cook grain w/o burning
Organization: Oklahoma State University Computer Center, Stillwater OK
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 1994 21:16:30 GMT
>My lady is about to take on her second large feast, and has asked me to
>see if any of you out there know of a good way to cook large quantities of
>grain (ie. barley, bulgar wheat, etc.) without having it burn to the
>bottem of the pans. Any information will be greatly appreciated.
The best answer is to bake it. The Frugal Gourmet has a very nice Barley -
Mushroom casserole recipe in his ..cooks our ethnic ancestors. I have
multiplied this recipe over 10 times with no ill effects. The only scary part is the saute part. The reason that baking works so well is that it heats the food from all directions so that no adjustment of baking time is required for the recipe.
The saute in his recipe does take longer, however.
Ld. Aeddan of Moonschadowe
shore at pp.okstate.edu
From: hwt at bcarh70c.bnr.ca (Henry Troup)
Subject: Re: cook grain w/o burning
Date: 18 Jan 94 14:59:32 GMT
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada
For large quantities, such as the 2 kg of millet I cooked recently,
1) bring water to the boil. Add salt and 1/4 cup oil (optional)
2) add grain and start stirring.
3) stir continously until boiling
4) turn off heat. Stir for two - three minutes more.
5) stir every five minutes or so for an hour or more. You may want to use a
large fork later in the process.
Proportions of grain, water, and salt are exactly the same as for stovetop
cooking. My usual reference for these proportions is "Laurel's Kitchen",
because it has a nice table.
Henry Troup - H.Troup at BNR.CA (Canada) - BNR owns but does not share my opinions
Strong Usenet Anthropic Principle: the Net exists so you can see my .sig
From: Sheri.Stanley at p911.f1066.n374.z1.fidonet.org (Sheri Stanley)
Date: 19 Jan 94 09:21:05 -0500
Subject: Cooking Lots of Rice (was Re: cook grain w/o burning)
Organization: Fidonet:The Blue Barrel Brewery (1:374/1066.911)
aNE> : Is the method for cooking large batches of rice similar? Cariadoc, in
aNE> his : Miscellany, mentions (off hand) that there is a way to cook rice
aNE> that : depends mostly on the retained heat of the boiling water but he
aNE> doesn't : give details.
I usually cheat...I just use "minute" rice (it never burns, it's always
cooked all the way through, and it frees up cooking pots in a big hurry).
If the budget will allow, I find that this is the best way to go (though
shockingly non-period - blush).
From: DDF2 at cornell.edu (David Friedman)
Subject: Re: Cooking Lots of Rice (was Re: cook grain w/o burning)
Date: 24 Jan 1994 05:42:55 GMT
Organization: Cornell Law School
Sheri.Stanley at p911.f1066.n374.z1.fidonet.org (Sheri Stanley) wrote:
> aNE> : Is the method for cooking large batches of rice similar? Cariadoc, in
> aNE> his : Miscellany, mentions (off hand) that there is a way to cook rice
> aNE> that : depends mostly on the retained heat of the boiling water but he
> aNE> doesn't : give details.
1. I think the passage you are thinking of is in a article by Elizabeth, my
2. My current system for rice is very similar to what was described. Bring
the water to a boil. Add the rice. Bring the water back to a boil, stirring
occasionally. Cover. Remove from heat. With big pots (i.e. 5 gallons+) it
should cook without further heat or stirring.
DDF2 at Cornell.Edu