cook-ovr-fire-msg - 6/8/09 Cooking over open fires. Cooking feasts outdoors. NOTE: See also these files: Opn-Fr-Cookry-art, utensils-msg, iron-pot-care-msg, Kentwell-Hall-art, firepits-msg, camp-ovens-msg, ovens-msg, firestarting-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ From: mfgunter at tddeng00.fnts.com (Michael F. Gunter) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 16:51:49 -0500 Subject: Re: SC - Feast planning > What sorts of dishes have folks had good luck with cooking on a grill? > We've done pork roast before, but other than that have had problems with > meat getting dry and overdone. I'd be interested in other ideas. > > Caitlin One thing that we do before feasts, and especially before grilling, is to boil chickens first. Boil them until they are partially cooked but not falling off the bone. Then cool and place in whatever marinade you desire. Then grill them until they are brown and done. You shouldn't have the problems with drying when done this way. Also, this way they cook up fairly quickly and you can serve the chicken hot. Gunthar From: "Nick Sasso (fra niccolo)" Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 19:38:42 -0400 Subject: Re: SC - Feast planning > One thing that we do before feasts, and especially before grilling, is > to boil chickens first. Another concept is to smoke the meat ahead of time. You'll have moist meat that you can char on the barby or warm in an oven. Lots of creative optins with smokers. In Humble Service to God and Crown; niccolo From: nweders at mail.utexas.edu (ND Wederstrandt) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 11:37:08 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: SC - cooking frumenty for the masses I have cooked outdoors with grains quite a bit since we wind up with lots of outdoor events. I made a mushroom barley stew with leeks out doors. I like barley which has a nutty taste that works well with stews. The best thing I found is to cook smaller batches and mix them together. The biggest problem with grains being cooked on Colemans, over fires and such is too often the pot is too big and isn't stirred well so the bottom burns. I use 3 gal pots and mix them when they are hot.. Our events usually have a minimum of 150 hungry people with a maximum of 350 or 400 and the smaller pots work better even though the dish takes longer to cook. Another idea is to precook your grains a bring them out to reheat and mix with any other ingredients. Again I think smaller pots work better than large. One of the best outdoor heating facilities I ever used was a water heater bottom hooked up to a butane tank. It could boil a 25 gal pot of hot water in less than two minutes. Really good...... Clare St. John From: Philip & Susan Troy Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 19:00:00 -0400 Subject: Re: SC - Cooking in a Period Environment L Herr-Gelatt and J R Gelatt wrote: > How many of you have attempted to make your "camp cooking" period---not just > the recipes and ingredients, but the fire irons, the pots and pans, the > beehive ovens and the open spits. etc? Up to a point. I've used a cast-iron bean pot (buried in a firepit) for a pottage of canebyns with ham, and have baked in a Dutch oven up on legs, and used both stone and cast iron bakestones. Can't seem to find a smith who'll make me a rachingcroke I can afford, though...someday... . > It's extra work, I grant you, but I also have had it shown to me that many > of our recipes are altered by the situations in which we cook them and the > modern tools we use. A pie baked in a kettle with coals heaped on the lid, > and a pie baked in a gas oven, and a pie baked in a brick bakery oven will > vary considerably as to taste, texture, and appearance. I really want to > try a small event (perhaps our household of 40-odd) with no (or few) modern > conveniences. Can anyone offer me some advice? One of my dream EKU (insert name of your kingdom university here) scenarios is a day in a tavern kitchen. This would be a class taking pretty much the entire day, with a brewing, a baking, and meal consisting of a pie, a pottage, a roast with sauces and a sallet or two. Possibly a late period sweet. Since this would be a teaching kitchen, I'd figured on doing about 3/4 of the food in advance, to be reheated in pots near the fire or in the warm bread oven. (This would go a ways toward preventing some disasters.) Most of the day would be spent doing the remaining 25%, slowly and carefully, for both the students (and in my case, the teacher) to learn some of the techniques. You might consider something like that... Adamantius From: Par Leijonhufvud Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 08:18:11 +0200 (METDST) Subject: Re: SC - Cooking in a Period Environment On Mon, 30 Jun 1997, L Herr-Gelatt and J R Gelatt wrote: > How many of you have attempted to make your "camp cooking" period---not just > the recipes and ingredients, but the fire irons, the pots and pans, the > beehive ovens and the open spits. etc? I've cooked for small groups of people (10-15) over campfire with only the tools available: pots (one iron replica, one aluminium "billy can" type pots), wooden spoons and ladles, knives, cutting boards. With the limitations that this implies it works fine, but you should expect that it takes some skill to work with the fire, and keep a constant temperature on pots. I've also used what comes fairly close to the viking age skillets, with good results when making bread. Make sure you have plenty of firewood, and if you go for much larger groups you probably should have someone detailed keeping the fire going at a constant level. This person should have some knowledge of what it takes to keep a fire going at a constant level (small sticks and constant replenishment), but this should be ok for a teenager. Have a convienient method of regulating your pots position relative to the fire. My prefered setup is a trench type fireplace (say 1 1/2x4'), with a bar at about 4-5' above. I then hang my pots from it using wooden "double hooks"[1], but a viking style chain with hooks would work at least as well. Remember that you can regulate by having the fire on one end, and moving the pot sideways. For a larger setup this is another person; stirring the pots and keeping them positioned. Other useful things: nick a pair of welders gloves from one of your neighbourhood stickjocks. Useful for handling hot and sooty pots. If you are going to do anything largish at all, I strongly recommend getting a table. It makes lots of things much easier. /UlfR [1] Join to wooden hooks until you have a "Z" shape (say 5-6" long). Your pot hangs on one, and a sturdy string from the other. it is then easy to roll up a turn of string on the upper hood when needed. The upper end of the string is tied with a loop (large enough to slide easilly) to the bar. - -- Par Leijonhufvud par.leijonhufvud at labtek.ki.se From: KandL Johnston Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 11:44:12 +1000 Subject: Re: SC - Cooking in a Period Environment L Herr-Gelatt and J R Gelatt wrote: > I also (with much anxiety, as it was my > first totally period camp meal) made our dinner with an open spit, and a > nifty cast iron trivet thingy attached to the spit's upright that held my > pots over the flame. I am a new woman with a new goal! I want to do some > historical cooking with the appropriate environment and tools. So here's my > question: > > How many of you have attempted to make your "camp cooking" period---not just > the recipes and ingredients, but the fire irons, the pots and pans, the > beehive ovens and the open . spits. etc? Yes, Yes, Every year at Easter we hold a comping event, and many of us experiment with this, and it is really a treat. Fire port of Iron and clay, open spits have cooked everything from roast and vegies, to baked cheese cakes and fritters/torts. This year we hope to get some kind of oven, but type is undecided. > It's extra work, Not a lot if your camping anyway > I really want to > try a small event (perhaps our household of 40-odd) with no (or few) modern > conveniences. Can anyone offer me some advice? And we have held feast for 50 people with 6 cooks, a fire minder (very important person, knows where hot, cool and medium heats are) and one camp cook fire. I'm the cook, Rudolf is the mean fire minder. - --------------------------------------- Rudolf von der Drau and Nicolette Dufay Baron and Baroness, Stormhold From: Bronwynmgn at aol.com Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 10:46:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: SC - Cooking in a Period Environment At one of my first SCA events, the entire feast was cooked over a wood fire set in a long, narrow trench to allow enough area for everything we needed. I'm afraid I can't remember much of the menu except the gingered carrots and poached pears. I do remember that it rained lightly most of the day, but not enough to put the fire out. The downpour came, literally, as we took the last pot off the fire and got it under the covered pavilion. We didn't have to worry about keeping an eye on the fire after that. The nearby stream, on the other hand... We did not use period utensils - in fact, one of the biggest problems was the fact that someone decided that refrigerator shelves would make good fire grates. (Do NOT try this. They bend under the combination of weight and heat and try to dump your food in the fire.) Also, things tend to heat unevenly, so in rescuing the food that was about to fall into the fire, somebody grabbed one side of the pot and said "Oh, it's cool, you won't need a potholder" - which resulted in the guy on the other side getting a nasty burn. So it is important to turn and stir pots frequently, and to make sure there are plenty of potholders available and use them, even if you think it might not be hot. Also, on another list (I think) the point was brought up that wind will rob the heat form your fire and increase cooking times. Wind breaks are a good thing. Bronwyn From: Robin Hackett Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 12:44:43 -0500 Subject: Re: SC - Cooking in a Period Environment Bronwyn wrote, >We did not use period utensils - in fact, one of the biggest problems was the >fact that someone decided that refrigerator shelves would make good fire >grates. (Do NOT try this. They bend under the combination of weight and >heat and try to dump your food in the fire.) Oven shelves, on the other hand, worked for me for years. However, I don't dig anymore. A combination of sand and ceramic tiles work well as a base to build a fire on, without ruining the ground underneath. Our 15th century set up (three spits and a pole to hang pots from) can still be driven into the ground around the tiles and its much easier to control the fire when you can reach it. :) >Also, on another list (I think) the point was brought up that wind will rob >the heat form your fire and increase cooking times. Wind breaks are a good >thing. Yes, they keep you from feeding charred yet uncooked chicken to the King! Amazing I still cook after that debacle. :) Leri From: Debra Hense Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 17:15:32 -0500 Subject: SC - RE: sca-cooks V1 #182 There is a lady living in the DC area (originally from Calontir), who can teach outdoor cookery. I know we flew her to Calontir to teach an all day outdoor cookery class several years ago. Unfortunately, I cannot now remember her name. Her husband was Sir Kintegern(sp?). [Matilda of Tay - that's the cook's name. She teaches a wonderful all day outdoor cookery class.] One of the things I most remember about her teaching is the phrase "let the fire be small, clear and bright." And she showed us in the fire pit what she thought the term meant. We cooked several things that day. A roast, stew, pie, and bread over that fire pit that we dug. It was extremely excellent. Kateryn de Develyn Who's only moved three times since then. I know the handout is in one of these file boxes... From: Mary Morman Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 13:39:59 -0600 (MDT) Subject: Re: SC - outdoor cookery On Tue, 1 Jul 1997, Debra Hense wrote: > Matilda of Tay - that's the cook's name. She teaches a wonderful all day outdoor cookery class. Mistress Mathilda Tay Gilchrest. Wonderful, talented lady. Only person i have met with a laurel in Housewifery. But I guess I never thought of her as being from Calontir... Elaina Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 22:31:42 -0700 (PDT)From: rousseau at scn.org (Anne-Marie Rousseau)Subject: SC - Frumenty successes!Hi all from Anne-Marie.Just wanted to let you all know that the frumenty for 120 went over great! It was not gloppy and was not burned and bunches of people came up and said "THAT was frument? But it wasn't nasty!!" Hooray!What we did:Make the frumenty in decent sized batches (about 4 cups at a time) in my really good big Revereware pot with a great lid. Let it cool to room temp and stir in the egg as dictated in the original source. Seal the stuff in boil-in-the-bag seal-a-meal bags, about 2-3 cups per bag.On site, we used the big huge propane burners like they have for crab boils. HEated up water in our biggest pots and when it was at a boil, put two or three bags in the water. Boiled them for about...5 min? Until the bags were soft (ie the frumenty was not all clumpy any more). Dumped the scalding hot and totally cooked grain in big steamer inserts which we kept in the oven until all the grain was done, and we served.For the record, we served the frumenty with stewed mushrooms, also from Curye on Englishe, I believe.Every diner got a little pamphlet with the recipes, including the original sources.Thanks for all the great ideas! For us, at this particular event, the boily bags were a great idea.- --Anne-Marie.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++Anne-Marie Rousseaurousseau at scn.orgSeattle, Washington Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 11:23:16 -0500 (CDT) From: cole joan Subject: SC - Re: seeking recipes (Outdoor Feast) Brenna of Lyonsbane requested a couple of recipes that I don't have and ideas for an outdoor feast in primitive circumstances. That I have done, and I have recipes available at http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~jscole/gosfeast.htm Some dishes are period, some are not. Perhaps it will spark some ideas. Hildegarde Stickerin Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 21:14:41 -0700 From: "Anne-Marie Rousseau" Subject: Re: SC - Re: seeking recipes (Outdoor Feast) Hi all from Anne-Marie this summer we started cooking exclusively on the fire. what a hoot! An outdoor feast in "primitive" condiitons is a fun challenge! we have found that we can do just about anything we would want to do in a regular kitchen, with the possible exception of baking pies and breads (and this only becuase we haven't perfected the techniques yet). Stuff that is very well suited to the open fire concept include: - --potages and stews...ie anything that you chop up and let boil or simmer for long periods of time - --anything yfryd...ie stuff you cook briefly in hot oil (spinach and fava or garbanzo beans are two options) - --herbolades...those eggy things with greens - --rissoles and frytours. You're outside, so for the first time, deep frying isnt a terrible ordeal! - --ravioles are perfect! you can even make them ahad of time and freeze them. Put them in the boiling broth on site, and voila! Check out Pleyn Delit, that new Medieval Kitchen book, anything by Scully, Maggie Black, etc. These are fairly good already-reconstructed recipes that can get you started. Test them out at home first to be sure you like them well enough to serve to paying customers :), and select recipes that don't seem to be too fussy about heat (ie sauces that might curdle probably are not suitable for fire, especially, if you're like me and havent figured out the fine points yet) have fun! cooking over a fire is a blast, especially when you've started it yourself with flint and steel! - --AM Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 07:30:41 EDT From: WOLFMOMSCA at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - Re: seeking recipes (Outdoor Feast) Primitive Feasts are the best way to actually recreate period foods. They didn't have gas ranges or food processors. They had fire. I've fed 450 off one six-foot trench fire, using a piece of bent steel as an oven. Gives you a real appreciation for what life was like for a real medieval cook. Wolfmother Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 12:19:46 -0500 From: "Decker, Terry D." Subject: RE: SC - Re: seeking recipes (Outdoor Feast) For grins and in response to the message about baking bread on a griddle, I tried baking a small cottage loaf this past weekend on a griddle covered by a metal bowl, a high tech version of the cloche oven. I managed to charcoal the bottom, perfectly brown the top and undercook the middle. The problem was not having a feel for the heat source. You can bake bread using anything from a flat rock to the covered cauldron, but you need to experiment to find out what the heat source will do with the particular oven. I'm expecting to lose about a dozen loafs before I get the makeshift cloche to work. I certainly need to raise the griddle and I may need to spread some cracked millet on the griddle to help insulate the dough. The recipe I'm using is: Dissolve 1 teaspoon dry active yeast in 1 cup warm water. Let the yeast start to froth (about 10 min.) Sift 1 teaspoon salt with 2 cups of flour. Stir the flour into yeast mixture 1/2 cup at a time. Knead on a floured surface until the dough is smooth and elastic. Form the dough into a ball. Let rise about 30 minutes in a covered, greased bowl. Shape your loaf. Bake until the crust is brown and the loaf sounds hollow when you tap it on the bottom (30 min to 1 hr). As a word of advice, when making dough outdoors, keep some muslin squares large enough to cover your bowls handy. Weighted corners are also a nice idea. Bugs love fermentation. Next, why not bake the bread in the cauldron? Bread keeps well for several days. You do not have to bake daily. And you certainly do not need to bake at the same time you are cooking your meal. It has been a very common practice both by professional bakers and householders to bake bread twice a week. Now if you want fresh bread with the meal and a dying fire is a problem, try a keyhole fire pit. Dig a circular pit about 18 inches in depth. Extend a trench out from the pit (usually in the direction of the prevailing wind). The trench should be narrow enough that your pots will fit across it and you should line the lip of the trench with stones, bricks, or logs to help support the weight of the pots and keep the lip from crumbling. Tapering the trench from 18 inches at the fire pit end to about 4 inches at the far end helps control the temperature on the bottom of the pot by where you position it. Build a fire in the fire pit. Keep the fire going. As the fire builds a bed of coals, transfer the coals to the trench with a shovel (I use a WWII entrenching tool). By keeping the fire going in the pit, you keep building a steady supply of coals, which can be transferred occasionally to the trench to maintain the temperature of the cooking fire. You can also set up a spit by the firepit and use it for roasting meat. Bear Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 15:14:03 +1000 From: Robyn Probert Subject: Re: SC - Re: seeking recipes (Outdoor Feast) I guess you should start with the philosophical question - are you trying to cook over a fire to understand and experience what it was like? Or are you trying to produce food and this happens to be the only available heat source? If the latter, pre-cook and heat as much as possible and use whatever implements are useful including those coal carrying dutch ovens, a water chuffer and anything else which makes the job easier. What about hiring some big gas burners and/or gas ovens? We did a feast last year for 350 with no kitchen - we hired everything in. If the former then on an open fire you can cook things in frypans, on spits and grill racks, in cauldrons and pots, so why not use recipies designed for these cooking methods? Add to that some cook-before and heat up options and you have a big range. Each year we have a 6 day camping event (Rowany Festival). I camp with a group into authenticity, so we have our pavillions, bath house, feast tent, cook tents and open fireplace. We all like cooking and all our evening meals are cooked over the fire - some from scratch and some pre-prepared. All researched, all delicious. Our evening board would usually have 15 dishes and serve 25 people plus ring ins. Many of the dishes were fine for these numbers but would not be practical for a large feast. Grab bag of Stuff we learned - dig a trench, not a round pit - much easier to control the fire and more room for more cooks. Set up two tall tripods at each end, with a pole between to hang pots from and spits along. Crossbars on the tripods hold ladles, forks etc out of the dirt (and a pair of leather gloves for hot pots). Start your fire and prep WELL before it gets dark. Cook on coals. Don't use cressets to give light - wicks in open oil is too dangerous (candle laterns are OK). 3 legged ceramic pots are very stable and (in stoneware) remarkably solid. Chinatown sells big cheap iron ladles and other useful tools. Also cheap stoneware pots. Solid blocks of ice will keep food cool longer than drink type ice (I made an icebox by lining a tourney chest and drop in lid with 1" solid foam - stays cool for 1 week). Frozen stews and potages help keep other things cool. UHT milk and cream don't have to be kept cool until opened. Chardwarden is fabulous on porridge the next day. Rowan - ----------------------------------------------------------------- Robyn Probert Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 10:45:48 +1000 From: Lillian Johnston Subject: RE: SC - Re: seeking recipes (Outdoor Feast) The best way that we have found is to have one person, not a cook, in charge of the fire. They can control the temp, have low, medium and hot spots for people to cook on and it is usually a fire bug around who would love to play with the fire for an extended period. The fire pit then becomes a conversation area, with people dropping in because they know some one will be there. Nicolette Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 10:57:11 +0200 (MET DST) From: Par Leijonhufvud Subject: Re: SC - Re: seeking recipes (Outdoor Feast) On Tue, 23 Jun 1998, Robyn Probert wrote: > Grab bag of Stuff we learned - dig a trench, not a round pit - much easier > to control the fire and more room for more cooks. Set up two tall tripods at > each end, with a pole between to hang pots from and spits along. Crossbars > on the tripods hold ladels, forks etc out of the dirt (and a pair of leather > gloves for hot pots). Make the tripod taller than you think is needed: nowadays I seldom make them less than 5 feet. Use pot-hooks or chains with hooks (as seen in Viking age finds) for suspending pots, then you can adjust the elevation of the pot as needed. For limited size pots (up to, say, 15-20 lb total mass) I prefer the home made style: two wooden hooks tied together in an "S" shape, and some (strong!) cord for adjustment. Unless you know how to do these you should ask a local woodworker to help you out; the trick is to carve them so that the the load is on the wood, not the lashings. Unfortunately I've never seen any indication that the lever type rigs for suspending pots are period, since you can make some really nifty setups with them. Quick slow-down of the boil in a pot (if well suspended, a gallon of boiling stew in your lap is No Fun): make it swing back and forth over the fire. Works better with longer suspension chains than shorter. > Cook on coals. Differing opinion here, I prefer the flames. As long as you keep the flames even it is IMHO faster and more efficient (or maybe I just like to watch the flames). Use small pieces of wood and keep replenishing them often. Have plenty of firewood handy, and (for larger setups) a designated fire tender. Don't worry about pots getting black from soot: they work better that way, so why polish them after every use (some people do!)? > Solid blocks of ice will keep food cool longer than drink type ice (I > made an icebox by lining a tourney chest and drop in lid with 1" solid > foam - stays cool for 1 week). Frozen stews and potages help keep > other things cool. UHT milk and cream don't have Use evaporation cooling for keeping stuff cool, or bury in the ground. /UlfR (Back*woods*, not backwards.) - -- Par Leijonhufvud parlei(at)algonet.se Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 15:05:47 SAST-2 From: "Ian van Tets" Subject: SC - Re: sca-cooks V1 #813 There was a short discussion on the difference between cooking over fires and the pointers we need to remember. One I learnt from cooking under an open chimney is to keep lids on pots. Soot doesn't taste nice. If boiling liquid off, then leave the lid propped up on a spoon, and allow more time than usual. Cairistiona. Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 18:44:25 -0600 From: "Decker, Terry D." Subject: RE: SC - Fw: Fireplace cooking info anone? You can find the International Dutch Oven Society at: www.idos.com A couple of books, while not about fireplace cooking specifically, may help. J. Wayne Fears, Backcountry Cooking ISBN 0-914788-19-1 (hb) ISBN 0-914788-20-5 (pb) Mel Marshall, Complete Book of Outdoor Cookery ISBN 0-442-26437-2 Unfortunately, both are probably out of print. Bear Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 15:02:44 -0500 From: "R. Trigg" Subject: Re: SC - Fw: Fireplace cooking info anone? >Does anyone knowof any sites or books wtih recipes for fireplace or Dutch >oven cooking? Your friend might try "Hearthside Cooking" by Nancy Carter Crump, ISBN #0-914440-94-2; EPM Publications, Inc., McLean, VA; $19.95. It contains 18th and 19th century recipes with methods for cooking on a hearth. Lady Nostas'ia Stepanova Barony of Ponte Alto, Atlantia (Alexandria, VA) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 14:09:13 -0800 (PST) From: Donna Hrynkiw Subject: Re: SC - Fw: Fireplace cooking info anone? >Does anyone knowof any sites or books wtih recipes for fireplace or Dutch >oven cooking? Thanks! >-Janna Baron >(Alessandra) There's a bit of info about dutch ovens (not a 'recipe' per se) at: http://sunsite.unc.edu/london/rural/food/sourdough/general/dutch-oven.camp-oven Elizabeth donna at kwantlen.bc.ca Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 23:54:51 EST From: kathleen.hogan at juno.com (Kathleen M Hogan) Subject: Re: SC - A new thread We did a "Robin Hood" theme for our Chocolate Mine Raids a few years back at a site that had NO kitchen facilities. We cooked a venison stew in a cast iron cauldon over an open fire, and served it with lots of bread and cheese. Probably the simplest feast we've ever done and it was enjoyed thoroughly. Caitlin NicFhionghuin House Oak & Thistle Shire of BorderVale Keep, Atlantia Augusta, GA Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 15:00:35 -0500 From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow) Subject: Re: SC - Re: >Speaking of which, perhaps those experts still at home/on this list may tell me >what is their favorite recipe(s) to use when cooking out of doors? the feast >in july is going to be outdoors, for my entire house (about 35 people) and I >have access to grocery stores (read:small town, 160 people) about 10 min from >site. My favorite is the fabled 'obscene chicken'. ;) The bird is placed upright on a grill over the coals, or dangled on a string, & repeatedly brushed with flavored batter til done. The bird is very juicy & delicious. Cindy Renfrow renfrow at skylands.net Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 15:12:38 -0500 From: "Alderton, Philippa" Subject: Re: SC - Re: The easiest thing to cook outdoors for your carnivorous friends would be a Hunter's Stew. It has different names in different cultures, but basicly, all they'd do is take the days catch, whatever it might be- birds or game, throw it in a pot and boil it until it was tender. While you might not have access to wild game, you could try, say, a leg of lamb, a chunk of pork, another of beef, a couple of chickens, maybe a duck or a rabbit, and so forth- sort of a carnivore's bouillibaisse) The other option in roasting your chosen meats over a fire, which is easy enough to do if you're experienced with grilling outside- just choose your firewood carefully- oak, apple, and hickory are all tasty, but stay away from things like pine unless you want your food to taste like turpentine) Phlip Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 08:47:30 -0800 From: Anne-Marie Rousseau Subject: Re: SC - outdoor feast info Hi all from Anne-Marie we're asked about what recipes we like to do outdoors. Well....:) We've spent all of last summer cooking all our meals over an open fire, using only 15th century appropriate recipes. (we're doing 1470 Bruges re-enactment). Our conclusions were that ALL of the recipes out there work over an open fire! Lo and behold, unless they require an oven, it is all well suited. Amazing, no? Especially when you consider that that's how THEY did it :). (the oven thing could likely have been gotten around using modern dutch ovens, etc, but we decided not to, and got our baked goods from the "bake house") Seriously, its pretty cool that so many medieval recipes are essentially "hack to gobbets, spice til its good and boil till its done". Thickening is done with particulates and/or reduction that dont require fussy heat like an emulsion thickener. Even rice and barley, if you have a good pot with a good lid work just great. My only "cheat" is that I'm not comfortable cooking large hunks of animal flesh (my insta read thermometer isnt really 15th century appropriate, you know? and I've gotten food poisoning once from underdone chicken. Ugh.) over the fire and often in the dark, so I often will pre-cook whole chickens, roasts, etc at home, and then grill or spit them over the fire to warm them up. So my advice is to pick your favorite medieval recipes with impunity. They were originally meant to be cooked over an open fire, so you cant go wrong. - --AM Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:57:54 -0800 (PST) From: Laura C Minnick Subject: Re: SC - Outdoor cooking On Thu, 18 Feb 1999 RoseThstle at aol.com wrote: > Does anyone have any ideas how to cook a roast slowly on site? My friend Ivar Juana-Sweetie (Sorry- I can't spell that fool Norse last name of his) has these cool clay-baker/smoker oven things that are called a 'Komodo Pot'- Japanese, I think. When I made Cormarye for my feast several years ago, we roasted the pork in the Komodo Pot and it was wonderful. They are rather expensive though, IIRC. But I understand that a Weber-style kettle BBQ, top down and coals low, does a decent enough job too. 'Lainie - - Laura C. Minnick University of Oregon Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 07:49:46 -0500 From: "Margo Farnsworth" Subject: Re: SC - Outdoor cooking >> Does anyone have any ideas how to cook a roast slowly on site? \ Lodge makes a cast iron game cooker (a longish oval type dutch oven). If you have a fire pit, you could place the roast inside, put the lid on, and place coals around the outside and on the lid. This takes some monitoring to get the hang of what temperature the inside of the oven is reaching. We also bake bread this way. Faoiltighearna Torvald's Hird Canton of Ravenhill, BBM, East Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 08:25:36 EST From: Mordonna22 at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - Outdoor cooking RoseThstle at aol.com writes: > Does anyone have any ideas how to cook a roast slowly on site? The day before, burn enough wood in a 55 gallon drum to build a bed of coals deep enough to bury your pan. Place the roast in a large, covered roasting pan sealed with dough. Bury in the coals and cover with a layer of dirt. Allow to roast overnight. Mordonna Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:04:45 -0600 From: "Sharon R. Saroff" Subject: Re: SC - Outdoor cooking >Does anyone have any ideas how to cook a roast slowly on site? We used one of those large drum-shaped grills and roasted the meat slowly over coals. We was the Barony of Bergental at a Pennsic when we hosted the House Runnemead dinner (landed barons & baronesses of the East). I have read that this was done in period by Jews when cooking the Sabbath stew Hameem (Name in the Talmud) also known as Cholent. The pot was surrounded by hot coals which cooled slowly and cooked the contents overnight. To keep it warm after the coals became just warm embers, the pot was wrapped in a blanket. My source for this information is a recently published book called "The Jewish Kitchen" by Alena Krekulova & Jana Dolezalova. Sindara Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 22:12:59 EST From: SigridPW at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - Outdoor cooking lainie at gladstone.uoregon.edu writes: << > Does anyone have any ideas how to cook a roast slowly on site? >> Depending on how big the roast is and what you have for heat, you can wrap your meat in foil and throw them in the charcoal. Wrap it several times, and turn it every so often. I've done this several time to good effect. It seems to work as well on good cuts (I've done prime rib this way) as well as the cheaper ones. Charcoal is better than wood (more even and controllable heat), but it can be done. I wouldn't recommend wood fire for a first attempt. It's really much more work. Lady Giuglia Madelena Sarducci Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 06:31:30 -0500 From: "Decker, Terry D." Subject: RE: SC - OT - STIRBRIDGE VILLAGE (Fireplace cooking) > I would like to have a good reference to > fireplace cooking other than boyscout type hand books (not that there's > anything wrong with them, but they say different things than fireplace > cooks say). > > Melisande Goldenson, Suzanne, and Simpson, Doris, The Open-Hearth Cookbook, Feasts from your Fireplace;The Stephen Greene Press, Brattleboro, Vermont, 1982. ISBN 0-8289-0471-5 Maybe not the book mentioned, But useful. Bear Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 09:07:26 -0400 From: "D. Clay-Disparti" Subject: Re: SC - OT - STIRBRIDGE VILLAGE (Fireplace cooking) I am going to buy the other book, but thought you might like information on the one I have had for quite a few years... American Wood Heat Cookery by Margaret Byrd Adams Pacific Search Press ISBN 0-914718-91-6 This is mostly geared to the wood stove but I found it useful while cooking over a wood fire while we were putting our utilities in on our place in North Carolina (which has gone the way of all things past, sob, sob.) Isabella/Dee Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 10:58:44 EDT From: Acanthusbk at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - OT - STIRBRIDGE VILLAGE (Fireplace cooking) I imagine this is _Hearthside Cooking_ by Nancy Carter Crump. I have a description on my website at http://www.acanthus-books.com/acanthus-books/hearcook1819.html Amanda Acanthus Books http://www.acanthus-books.com Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 09:28:51 -0400 (EDT) From: cclark at vicon.net Subject: Re: SC - For Submission to the Chronus Mordonna wrote: > ... Grill over a hot fire, until the pork is done in the >center. Save any drippings ... I was just looking at some period pictures in _Fast_and_Feast_ by Bridget Ann Henisch, and it looks to me like it might be better to grill/roast *beside* the fire, not over it. That way the drippings pan can go next to the base of the fire, with the heat going up away from the pan and the drippings going only into the pan and not into the fire. The spatial arrangement would be something like this: meat flames wood pan But I haven't yet started learning to cook with fire, so take this to be no more than a hypothesis. Alex Clark/Henry of Maldon Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 16:12:35 -0700 From: Steven Cowley Subject: Re: SC - a grid? Lurking Girl wrote: < I've seen a widget of that ilk at Syke's Sutlering at Pennsic. Almost picked it up last year, too--I am hoping to do all-open-fire cooking for our camp next (this?) year, though I think I'm biting off more than I can chew. > Cooking on an open fire can be a very rewarding experience. Especially when everything comes together. Anyone can be successful at it if they are willing to be patient and practice. As in any other of the almost forgotten arts, it takes time to learn to do it well. You can be a 5 star chef in a modern kitchen and turn out magnificant "period" dishes and still destroy a pork chop in the fire. I have been working at this skill for more than 20 years now, long before I ever heard of the SCA, and still manage to ruin a dish from time to time. A couple of thoughts on the subject that might be of general help to anyone who ventures down this almost forgotten path. 1. For beginners, stick to food stuffs that you are familliar with. This is not the time to be trying out that new recipe you just received. Work with recipes that you know the characteristics of. 2. Heat can be your best friend or your worst enemy. Find and use the most consistant burning fuel available. Don't bring in a truck full of cut up 2x4s and expect to accomplish much more than a stew. Generally, the longer your fuel burns, the more consistant the heat. Don't be afraid to bring in a bag or two of charcoal for your first venture. It will be worth its weight in gold. 3. Wind IS your worst enemy. It blows the heat away. Make sure that you have some sort of wind break that you can move around as well as work around. I have cooked successfully with two feet of snow on the ground, and been unable to bake a cake on a warm summer day, due entirely to the wind. 4. Cast iron pots and pans are your friends. They will distribute and hold the heat better than almost anything else in this environment. Thus you will need less fuel to do the same job. 5. Have fun! Bread on a stick can really liven up a camp. Especially when everyone has to cook their own. There are a lot of other howtos and whatfors, but the bottom line is, with careful planning and lots of practice, you can eat very well without ever turning on a propane stove. I wish you all the best. I just wish I could be there to cook with you. Steffan of the Close Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 16:02:34 -0800 From: "James F. Johnson" Subject: SC - Cooking over 'fire' was re: a grid? > You can be a 5 star chef in a modern kitchen and turn out magnificant > "period" dishes and still destroy a pork chop in the fire. I have Interesting. I grew up in mundane Scouting, cooking over campfires, and later cooking in commercial kitchens. I find it easier to cook over wood fires, charcoal, or gas ranges in a commercial kitchen than I do on electric elements often found in domestic households and a few 'community' kitchens. I can look at a flame and judge it's heat. Elements baffle me and I tend to try to under set the temperature and raise it gently if needed. I'm more likely to burn stuff on an element. Just me, I suppose. One basic practice I like to stress is, except for gas ranges, I prefer to cook on coals, not flames. Whether they are the convenient charcoal coals, or the burnt down firewood, coals give a more consistent heat and soot the pot less. Flames are fickle from the slightest breeze and are either too much or not enough. It is always frustrating to get a good bed of coals going, only to have some helpful person pile more wood on the fire and start it blazing again. Like cooking over a blowtorch. And, yes, cast iron is very valuable. One more thing, is to give yourself time. It will take time to burn down to coals, it will take time to heat up the cast iron. And I try to have a pot ready for dishwater at hand all the time, so whenever I'm not using a spot for cooking, the pot goes on to get a head start on heating and not to waste the coals. Seumas Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 13:16:50 -0500 From: "Jeff Gedney" Subject: Re: SC - a grid? I shall attempt to reply to a few of these: > > 2. Heat can be your best friend or your worst enemy. Find and use the most > > consistant burning fuel available. > > Last year (the first year I worked over an actual firepit, and I did have > stove backup) I didn't have actual fire_making_ problems, unless you count > being stuck in camp all damn afternoon to keep an eye on it. :-/ The major > problem was smoke. Here you should use the wind to your advantage. Determing the general direction of the prevailing winds that day. They may vary a lot, but the general tendencies will show if you watch where the smoke goes, patiently Once you know the "prevailing" wind direction, keep your back to it, and the smoke should blow away from you, generally. Other hints: make sure that you have a hook or some other tool to pull the put to you somewhat, Closer to the edge of the fire pit, if you need to get into it. That will allow you access to the contents relativly free of smoke. For your big pot, unless you are baking, you might try not making the fire ALL the way around it, to allow access form that side fior stirring. as long as the ingredients are stirred, it doesn not matter that much if the heat is applied to one side or all wht way around. Cast iron and stirring will distribute the heat effectively. Before you start cooking rake the large unburnt chunks of wood ( which generate the bulk of the smoke ) AWAY form the coals ( Which generate the bulk of the heat ), preferably in the direction the prevailing winds tend to blow. As the large chunks burn down to coals, rake them into the area where you are working. this will allow you to keep a replenishing supply of cooking coals. ( this is actually an old blacksmith's trick ) > > 3. Wind IS your worst enemy. It blows the heat away. Make sure that you > > have some sort of wind break that you can move around as well as work > > around. > > How large does such a thing need to be? Ankle, knee, waist? I would > like to rig an actual roof over the cooking area, because getting > rained on while tending the stew really bites, but even with our tiny > cooking fire and a high roof, I imagine the Fire Safety people would > have a cow. Typically, the sides of the fire pit are fine, if the pit is deep enough, or there is a wall of rocks around the pit, to the height of the cooking grid. You want the avoid a excess of wind below the cooking level (Above it the heat is lost to you anyway!), unless you are smoking meat. You will want to make sure that the wind break allows air to flow into the pit at ground level, to keep the fire form starving for oxygen. A roof would not be useful for a windbreak. Also keep in mind that a wall or other vertical surface close to the firepit will draw the smoke to it when the wind blows, so you probably do not want to try a high wind break with a roof anyway, since that will only ensure that _you_ are smoked like a kipper. Use an umbrella. inconvenient, but the best option, as far as fire safety goes. ( cloaks and ponchos can ge useful but you have to mind the trailing edges around the fire. ) have a friend hold, if you need both hands. Brandu Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 14:41:43 -0500 From: "Decker, Margaret" Subject: RE: SC - How do I get started? On Tue, 4 Apr 2000, Heather-Enaya Parr-Blake wrote: > I am new to the field of cooking and feast in the SCA. > I belong to a newly founded (well nearly founded) shire > in Northern Kentucky. I am looking for a source for > recipes and gear. Particularly in the gear department, > I am looking for pots and pans heavy enough to come through > campfire/hearth cooking. Everyone else has said a lot about pots & pans etc. I would recommend also that you invest in a 100% wool skirt or dress and a 100% linen chemise, apron , and head wrap. Linen is slower to catch fire than cotton and wool is even slower (usually only smolders). Linen also makes wonderful dish towels. And please keep an ABC fire extinguisher near at hand as well as a first aide kit. We hate loosing new members, especially to accidents. Margarite Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 15:14:51 -0400 From: "Siegfried Heydrich" Subject: Re: SC - Fire pit cooking > I have a bit of a delimma I was hoping you good folk could help me with. > Milady wife and I have taken an interest in cooking over an open fire. We > recently bought a spit however, we have no real idea how to cook with the > bloody thing. How does one gauge the height at which the food should be kept > from the fire? How do you interpret temperature on something as variable as > an open fire? Are there any books available on the subject or is this one of > those trial and error things? Any assistance you could offer to pave our > way in the venue would be gratefully accepted. > > Aengus MacBain Use your hand - literally. Place your spit at about the height where your hand can't stand the heat. TURN the spit at least every 5 minutes, and even that's pushing it. Use a meat thermometer; if the outside is charring and the inside is cold, raise the spit and go longer. DON'T pull the meat off the spit until it's 160 degrees (varies with the meat, but that's a good guideline) AT A JOINT. The ol' mark I eyeball is a useful tool - when it looks done, let it go a little longer (unless you're an unrepentant carnivore, in which case you should show the meat the fire, frighten it badly, and then rip it into small, chewable pieces), and then check the thickest part of the meat. If you use a thin knife, run it in, leave it for 3 seconds, and lay the tip on the inside of your forearm. You can gauge the doneness very accurately that way.If you're doing fowl, pierce the leg joint, and observe the color of the juices. If it's clear, it's ready to eat. If it shows red (bloody), leave it on a bit longer. And basic hint #1, don't cook over a fire. Cook over COALS. A fire will char, but not cook, it'll burn. What you want is a slow, even heat, and that's what you get from coals. Sieggy Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 15:40:20 -0400 From: "Jim Revells" Subject: Re: SC - Fire pit cooking Hej! Aengus, I have done a lot of Pit /Open Fire Cooking. The best thing to do is let hardwood (or use Real Hardwood Charcoal not briquets) to burn down to coals then place the spit at a height that is too hot hold your hand for more than a few seconds (this is a judgment call & you learn by doing it). Then keep a spray bottle of water handy to knock down any major flames that threaten to burn the meat (very important with pork, again how high you let the flames get is a judgment call). The only sure way to judge the temp is with a Meat Thermometer, especialy with Pork & Fowl (most cook books have temp guides in them that will work). If you are talking about cooking in pots then you stir & watch them to make sure they are cooking at a warm, simmer, or boil as required (you also get good at judging the temp of your pots by feel). There are some good books on Cast Iron cookery that can be gotten from merchants like Smoke & Fire or others that do the Buckskiner events (at thoes events you are not allowed to use a colemanstove). Campfire cooking can be alot of fun & you can get some great flavors. Hej! Olaf who one year had a restaeraunt at Pennsic where I cooked only with charcoal. Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 16:15:09 -0400 From: grizly at mindspring.com Subject: Re: Re: SC - Fire pit cooking Greetings Aengus MacBain! Welcome to the world of pit/coal cookery! I have done more and more roasting over coals recently and offer a little more to what Sieggy has already given. The key, IMHO, to sucessful cooking over coals/fire is temperature control. Once you have mastered that, you can do most anything you need to do. You can vary the temperature you are cooking at by banking your coals to one place or another. For example, the meat to be cooked on a whole lamb carcasse is mostly on the legs. So, you would want to pile your coals so as to direct the heat mostly to those areas so they cook before the ribs become charcoal. You can use a rake or stick to maneuver the coals (in this example, I put them in a wedge at the head and tail of the beast with the open end toward the center like this <-> so that the point is under the very end of the animal). If you decide the heat is to high or cooking too fast, you simply move the coals a little further away, and closer to intensify the heat. Maintaining constant heat source is aslo useful, so add fresh coals occasionally as they begin to burn out. The same principals can be used with cauldrons/pots. You can use adjustable chains to raise and lower the pot, and bank the coals into a big circle to manage the heat: smaller circle for more intense heat and expand to draw heat lower. It takes some finesse and practice to get comforatble with it, but it is incredibly enriching in the process. Cooking this way requires an intimacy with your fire and your food to know what is does and doesn't do or like. niccolo difrancesco Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 22:07:26 -0400 From: Johnna Holloway Subject: [Sca-cooks] another one to bookmark To: Cooks within the SCA Speaking about other websites to bookmark-- William Rubel who wrote The Magic of Fire book has a list now of open hearth demo's and teachers http://www.williamrubel.com/Links/Class.html Johnnae Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 07:26:43 -0500 From: Stephen Bloch Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Period Cooking Styles and Vessels Project To: Cooks within the SCA Christianna wrote: > Two years ago many of you who attended the SCA Cook's Potluck at Pennsic saw > the pottery cooking vessels I'd been playing with that day. Mistresses Cori > and Honnoria from Aethelmearc had thrown a variety of pots, a skillet, a > pipkin, and a few bowls for cooking with, and asked me to bring some period > recipes to try them out in. The object was to test the cookware out to see > how it worked, held up, where improvements needed to be made, etc. I had > great fun squishing in the mud up on top of Mt. Aislinn and had a lot of > success and good opportunities for feedback. One thing we noticed for sure > was that the cooking method definitely affected the food product. I did "An > Excellent Boylt Sallad" with spinach in the pipkin and it was fabulous. I > have not been able to reproduce it the same way since. I've come up with > some tasty spinach glop, but nothing that approached the texture I got with > a slow coddle in hot ashes. Last spring Lady Andrea MacIntyre decided to do a careful, scientifically controlled experiment on cooking vessels: she mixed up a large batch of some chicken-stew sorta thing from Menagier (I don't remember exactly what recipe), divided it in thirds, and cooked one third each in a stainless-steel pot, a cast-iron pot, and a tinned brass pot, all over the fireplace in her home. She brought all three to an event the next day and invited the populace to do blind taste-tests. To my palate, one tasted "thin", "metallic" (turned out to be the stainless steel); the second tasted more robust, but a little harsh (cast-iron), and the tinned-brass was clearly the richest and most flavorful of the three. I gather this is consistent with what other taste-testers said. -- John Elys (the artist formerly known as mar-Joshua ibn-Eleazar ha-Shalib) mka Stephen Bloch sbloch at adelphi.edu Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 14:17:36 -0400 From: "Phlip" Subject: Re: RE: [Sca-cooks] trivets and dutch ovens To: "Cooks within the SCA" > So I hear many folks referring to 'temperature control' in cooking in an > oven, and why using actual flame is bad.. And so, I ask. > > How do you determine the temperature inside an 'oven' without a gauge > or opening the pan? Experience, mostly. Coals tend to be pretty much the same temp unless you blow air on them. Blowing air is why I can get my forge fire up to temps to forge weld steel, or burn it up, if you aren't careful. From the basic coal temperature, experience tells you how close or how far from the fire to have the food. If you see black smoke, it's probably too hot ;-) > How do you keep the coals burning hot long enough to bake anything? By working them. If I'm using wood to develop coals in a fire, I have a fire burning fairly close to the cooking area- 1-2 ft- and rake coals from the fire over to the cooking area as I need them. Using charcoal, I add fresh charcoal on top of the burning coals about every half hour. It's something that you need to watch as you're doing other things, but not something you have to stare at. Any fire requires more management than, say, a gas or electric stove, and just like those stoves, experience tells you when things are too hot, pretty close to right, or too cool, as well as when the food is cooked. In questionable cases, you can always use one of those instant read thermometers, until you get the knack. > what indications are there to show the existing temperature of a > fire/coal pit? Black smoke, too hot. Black fuel, too cool ;-) Generally, as I said, a pit of coals will be pretty much the same temp, particularly if you're using briquets. Different woods burn at different temps, but when you use the coals, actually all you're burning is the charcoal you made yourself in the fire- basicly, pure carbon. The fire and flames are removing all the impurities. It's a bit more complicated than that, but for a rule of thumb, all coals are burning at the same temp. The variations come with how much air the fire is receiving, and how many coals you have in a heap. Usually most people cook with a coal bed that is roughly about a foot and a half in diameter, and don't force oxygen in with a blower, so you're getting pretty close to an average condition, and that's what you're cooking from. Saint Phlip, CoD Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 21:29:01 -0600 From: "TheBard3" Subject: [Sca-cooks] OOP- A Book I Found To: "Cooks within the SCA" Found a fairly good read a while back, The Magic of Fire by Wiliam Rubel, and was wondering if anyone else has read it? It's basically written about ways to cook over live coals/fire. While there aren't many recipes in it I found that the way he describes the process of cooking gives quite a bit on insight that might help out when you're cooking on something besides a stove. And thanks to this book I actually made an edible ashcake (long story, deals with camping trip and forgotten fuel bottle). James P. Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 23:26:04 -0400 From: Johnna Holloway Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] OOP- A Book I Found To: Cooks within the SCA He's a good guy and it's a good book. He's also SCA friendly. Home page is here http://www.williamrubel.com/ I had the pleasure of meeting him in person at Leeds Symposium in 2004. He's an interesting guy. His next book is on baking, I think. Johnnae TheBard3 wrote: > Found a fairly good read a while back, The Magic of Fire by Wiliam > Rubel, and was wondering if anyone else has read it? Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 07:46:22 -0400 From: "Elise Fleming" Subject: [Sca-cooks] OOP- A Book I Found To: "sca-cooks at ansteorra.org" Johnnae wrote: > He's a good guy and it's a good book. He's also SCA friendly. > Home page is here http://www.williamrubel.com/ > I had the pleasure of meeting him in person at Leeds Symposium > in 2004. He's an interesting guy. His next book is on baking, I think. From things I observed and heard last year he's also a bit controversial. I'm a nobody in the culinary history world but he greeted me effusively at last year's Leeds Symposium and started to talk about his book. It was a bit self-promoting (although I'm guilty of that myself!) and off-putting. From what I heard at least one noted culinary historian say, he pumps others for information and then uses the material as if he discovered it. This has led that culinary historian to refuse to answer in detail any more questions from Rubel. Doesn't diminish the usefulness of his book - just gives a spin on what goes on behind the scenes. Alys Katharine Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 21:12:48 -0400 From: ranvaig at columbus.rr.com Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Period Cooking Outdoors To: Cooks within the SCA I cook a 9th c Hiberno-Viking feast for 30+ people with no modern facilities. We have water at a tap a block away, two braziers/above ground firepits (no fire on the grass), two tables, a small clay oven, ice chests, an assortment of hand forged steel and cast iron pots, wooden and metal bowls, and other kitchen stuff. Ice and bottled water is available on site too. This is living history in the middle of an Irish festival, surrounded by people, and the real point is demonstrating period cooking. I try hard to keep modern things out of the kitchen, but we don't have the budget to have everything perfect, so we use some modern but not too obtrusive things. There are no recipes from this time, so all are my best guess, based on foods known to be used here/now. and later recipes I've found the small braziers to be inadequate, they just don't build up coals you can cook with. So we are hoping to upgrade the facilities next year. I'm hoping to get make some pottery too... our setup is just too metal heavy, but I haven't found much on cooking pots for our time. I cook everything on site. The pork was cooked the day before and kept in the cooler. The butter and cheese were demos the day before. Someone brought me fresh nettles, so we made nettle cheese, it was finished after dark, and got a bit carmelized and was lovely. The duck, chicken and barley were finished an hour before serving, and left covered in the pot. Just before serving we cooked the oatcakes and veggies, sliced and reheated the pork. Things went pretty well this year, but I had a few planned dishes that didn't happen. Ranvaig Last years menu was: Braised Pork with Cormaye Sauce - pork, mead, garlic, cumin, coriander, pepper Braised Chicken with leeks and parsley - chicken, leeks, parsley Braised Duck with onions, thyme, and honey Braised roots - carrots, parsnips, turnips, parsley root Barley with hazelnuts Oatmeal Littiu - oatmeal, milk Cured salmon - salmon, sugar, salt, mead, dill - this was made ahead Mustard sauce, - mustard, mead, honey Garlic herb sauce - garlic, sage, parsley, bread horseradish sauce - horseradish, vinegar Plum sauce - plums, celery leaves, cumin, honey, wine, vinegar Bread, Oatcakes - made on site Nettle Cheese, Dill Cheese, and butter, made on site Pears, plums, peaches, berries radishes, celtic salt, honey - from the hive of one of our members Mead - made on site the year before > I would ask the aid of the assembled for resources on cooking in a > period manner for camping. I'm contemplating cooking for about 50-75 > people at a site that lacks modern facilities, so the idea of doing > this in as period a style as I can manage intrigues me. > My focus would be "Middle Eastern" period foods, and mostly snack-type > stuff on top of this (I have the Miscellany, as well as some Ottoman > cooking resources) but I'm not tied solely to that theme. Any > resources (books! books! books!), or advice, the assembled can give > would be of help, and greatly appreciated. > > ----asim Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 18:59:32 -0800 (PST) From: Helen Schultz Subject: [Spit-Project] Book Recommendation To: Creating period spits This list has been rather quiet of late, so here is something to think about . I had recommended the following book earlier last year, but hadn't really read much of it then. Well, I've been looking at it all day today (in front of a toasty fire in the fireplace on a snowy New Year's Day in Indiana), and I find it is full of great instruction for cooking over a firepit... although his recipes are for cooking inside with a fireplace, most of them can be very easily adapted for firepit cooking. He has several really good chicken recipes (including spinning ones), and even tells you just how long to cook them... as well as some good lamb, fish, and other meats. He explains how to measure the heat of your fire with and without modern appliances, and all sorts of different mostly period tools and equipment to use. He also has used a couple Medieval recipes as a basis for his own renditions... and has a decent bibleography attached. I highly recommend this book to everyone on this list!! ?The Magic of Fire, Hearth Cooking,? by William Rubel. ISBN: 1-58008-453-2 Published by Ten Speed Press, 2002. This is an excellent book on how to cook over an indoor hearth. Although meant for the modern person, most of the techniques are very close to Medieval. Contains at least 100 recipes and lots of great photos of hearth cooking. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Meisterin Katarina Helene von Sch?nborn, OL Shire of Narrental (Peru, Indiana) http://narrental.home.comcast.net Middle Kingdom Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 15:12:29 EDT From: Bronwynmgn@aol.com Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Pennsic Camp Cooking To: sca-cooks@lists.ansteorra.org <> Two, in fact. I did indeed use the (VERY) sour cherries from my friend's medieval species of cherry tree to make Another Crust of Tame Creatures at Pennsic. This was my first time baking in my Dutch oven, and due to a combination of circumstances, I found myself not only having to go through the myriad steps of the recipe including making pie dough from scratch on a very hot day, I also had to tend my three year old and the fire while doing so. The three year old was easily occupied for most of the prep and cooking time by filling a big bowl with water and letting him lounge/play in it where I could see him from the kitchen. His white braies will never be the same, alas :-) If I remember how I did it correctly, I started the fire so I could start getting coals. Then parboiled the chicken and put it in a colander to cool, reserved the necessary broth and got rid of the rest. Got a bright idea and put my ceramic pie dish in the top of the ice chest to cool, so the dough wouldn't immediately melt to mush in it. Made the pie dough, resisting the urge to use my hands to get the butter in and sticking with the pastry cutter, which annoys me, and using ice water and cold butter. Still could barely roll it and get it off the board because it was so soft. Popped the pie dish with the dough back into the cooler. All the while adding wood to the fire and watching the three year old trying to find a way to fit his entire body into a bowl smaller than he was. Boned and cut up the chicken and fried it in butter because I didn't have any lard. Put chicken and cherries into pie dough and popped it back into the cooler. Made the egg portion of the dish, and had a bit of trouble with this because I've never thickened something like this over the heat before and got it too thick, so it sort of sat on top of the chicken instead of seeping down between the meat and cherries. Put a rack in the bottom of the Dutch oven, put the completed pie in, covered it, got the coals into the Dutch oven hole in the fire pit, put the oven in, and put coals around sides and top, at which point camp mates came home and took over the three year old. About half an hour later we had a lovely pie, with only the top edges of the crust burnt and the custard nicely browned. Very tasty. The second campfire cooking event was the Drye Stewe for Beef, which was pretty darned easy. Two chunks of pot roast into the Dutch oven on a rack, pour red wine over it, cover with chopped onions and sprinkle with blade mace, whole peppercorns, and whole cloves, and cover it an bake it. I had help for the fire, the child , and the onion chopping (and getting me blade mace from Auntie Arwen's) on this one. It came out quite yummy, and even our camp "confirmed sceptic about medieval meat dishes" (pronounced dislike of meat/fruit/dessert spice combos) raved abut it and wants me to make it again next year. Brangwayna Morgan Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 13:03:32 -0400 From: Johnna Holloway Subject: [Sca-cooks] Wood-Fired Cooking To: Cooks within the SCA , Creating period spits New book of possible interest for the summer season. Wood-Fired Cooking: Techniques and Recipes for the Grill, Backyard Oven, Fireplace, and Campfire/ by Mary Karlin. The book provides "A collection of 100 /contemporary/ recipes for the range of wood-fired cooking options. 200 p. Contents: Cooking with fire -- Wood-fired basics -- Becoming an efficient wood-fire cook -- Baking flatbreads and rustic artisan breads -- Wood-fired grilling -- Campfire cooking -- Wood-fired roasting -- Clay-pot and cast-iron oven cooking -- Baked on the hearth : savory tarts and galettes -- Low & slow : braising to barbecue -- Wood-fired sweets and desserts -- Wood-fired pantry basics. Learn more about the author and the book at her website: www.elementsoftaste.com . Johnnae Edited by Mark S. Harris cook-ovr-fire-msg Page 27 of 27