cook-flowers-msg - 12/1/06 Cooking with flowers. Medieval flower dishes. NOTE: See also the files: herbs-msg, herbs-cooking-msg, Roses-a-Sugar-art, sotelties-msg, roses-art, lavender-msg, p-herbals-msg, gardening-bib. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ From: hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones) Newsgroups: rec.food.historic,rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Pre-1600 flower dishes Date: 11 Mar 1994 05:12:42 GMT Organization: University of California, Berkeley In article <2lo4oq$isk at alpha.epas.utoronto.ca>, Michael McKay <mmckay at epas.utoronto.ca> wrote: > A friend of mine is planning on hosting a feast in July called >the "Feast of Flowers" and she wants me to cater it with pre-1600 >dishes that employ flowers. Can any of you give me some recipes or sources? >Thank you. > Look for a recipie called "Sambocade". In its original form (many later corrupted versions appear) it was a fritter of elder flowers. If you can find, it, there is a facsimile reprint (probably by the "English Experience" series, but I'm missing some of the title pages) of a 1653 book entitled "A Book of Fruits and Flowers" that has some relevant recipies -- although later than your target period. The collection "A Fifteenth Century Cookry Boke" has the following recipie: Roseye Take Almaunde Mylke and flowre of Rys, & Sugre, an Safroun, an boyle hem y-fere; than take Red Rosys, and grynd fayre in a morter with Almaunde mylke; than take Loches, an toyle hem with Flowre, an frye hem, & ley him in dysshys; than take gode pouder, and do in the Sewe, & caste the Sewe a-bouyn the lochys, & serve forth. In other words, make a sauce of almond milk and rose petals thickened with rice flour, and pour it over fried fish. The same source has sauces/puddings (in the modern sense) flavored with primroses, hawthorn flowers, or violets. Check it out. Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glavryn From: davesg at netaxs.com (David J. Szent-Gyorgyi) Newsgroups: rec.food.historic,rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Pre-1600 flower dishes Date: 14 Mar 1994 05:45:28 GMT Organization: Magyarotropic Medievialophiles Michael McKay (mmckay at epas.utoronto.ca) wrote: : A friend of mine is planning on hosting a feast in July called : the "Feast of Flowers" and she wants me to cater it with pre-1600 : dishes that employ flowers. Can any of you give me some recipes or sources? : Thank you. The recipe below is taken from George Lang's THE CUISINE OF HUNGARY. It is one of seven English-language translations for recipes provided in the history of Hungarian cuisine at the front of the book. The recipes are taken from an early sixteenth-century manuscript now in the Szechenyi Library in Budapest, and from THE BOOK OF MIHALYI SZENT-BENEDEKI (1601). Unfortunately, the primary sources aren't provided. Forgive me for posting a recipe without the primary source; I don't have it. I'm willing to trust Lang's experience and background. He's a professional restaurateur, and was born in Hungary. If you're interested in the history of Hungarian food, you must read this book, which is full of historical information -- Lang spends 150 pages on the culinary history of Hungary and on profiles of the gastronomic regions of the country! I'll be a while tracking down the medieval manuscripts and books listed in the bibliography; I'm looking for enough recipes to hold a period Hungarian feast, complete with documentation for each dish. Here's the recipe: ROSE DOUGHNUT "Make a batter of egg, flour and as much whey as necessary for right consistency. Take a fully developed white or red rose with some of the stem; wash it, and put it into a clean bowl to drain. (Make sure that there are no bugs inside flower.) Dip it into the light batter, and stand it up in plenty of hot butter to fry. Shake it every now and then to make sure its petals will stand apart as they did on the rosebush. If you add some rosewater to the batter, so much the better. Flavor with cane honey." Lang asks whether this recipe was a "poetic variation of the zucchini-flower fritter they must have learned from the Italians some generations ago." If you quote the recipe, note that accents aigus should be used over the two E's in "Szechenyi" and over the A in "Mihalyi." Best of luck with the feast! , , , Dave Szent-Gyorgyi/Kolozsvari Arpad, to his SCA friends --- , , , Dave Szent-Gyorgyi Kolozsvari Arpad davesg at netaxs.com border of Bhakail & Hartshorn-dale, East Kingdom, SCA "We HAVE to teach the net On a field Sable, a trident between to handle diacriticals!" two hippocampi respectant Or. From: greg at bronze.lcs.mit.edu (Greg Rose) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Pre-1600 flower dishes Date: 12 Mar 1994 11:58:10 -0500 Organization: MIT LCS guest machine Greetings, all, from Angharad ver' Rhuawn. Again, I'm posting from Hossein's account (mine being uncommunicative), but speaking only for myself. Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glavryn responded to Michael McKay: >> A friend of mine is planning on hosting a feast in July called >>the "Feast of Flowers" and she wants me to cater it with pre-1600 >>dishes that employ flowers. Can any of you give me some recipes or sources? >>Thank you. > >Look for a recipie called "Sambocade". In its original form (many later >corrupted versions appear) it was a fritter of elder flowers. The scholarship I have seen agrees as to the origin, but no actual recipe I have seen calls for elder flowers. I'm not sure that such a recipe is known, at least in English. (Elder flowers are pretty much unique to Anglo-Norman cuisine, at least partly because of where they grow.) Before plunging into a list of recipes, a couple of words of caution. I see essentially three difficulties with preparing period dishes of which flowers are a major ingredient. First, some of these are simply not available, at least in places I have lived. After roses, the most common flowers in early English cuisine are hawthorne blossoms and elder blossoms. Right. Not available at any price, at any time of year, in the quantities one would need for even quite a small feast. Second, many of these, while available, are most readily available in radically different forms. "Rose" does _not_ mean "American Beauty": what we have around now are mostly hybrid tea roses. It is possible to get eglantine, for instance, but it is not easy. I have no idea what sort of violet was native to England, but I'm fair to middling sure it wasn't African violets, and I wouldn't want to bet it's the kind that show up wild in my yard in Virginia. My point is not so much one of authenticity as that different members of the a botanical family may differ wildly both in flavor and in edibility. (Nightshade and tomatoes are related. The "berries" of the latter are fine to eat....) Third, unless you are growing the flowers yourself, you want to be _very_ careful about what comes with them. Flowers that are grown commercially for sale as pretty blossoms have frequently been treated with lots of chemicals that it is decidedly unwise to eat. With those provisos: Recipes calling for flowers are reasonably common in Anglo-Norman cuisine. Recipes for rosee, spinee, and suade, which are sort of porridges of almond milk with roses, hawthorn blossoms, or elder flowers respectively, occur in the 13th C Anglo-Norman collection edited by Constance Hieatt in _Speculum_ (1986) and in all four of the complete MSs from the 14th C included in _Curye on Inglysch_ (including Forme of Curye), sometimes twice in a single collection (_Diuersa Cibaria_ has two of each). The recipe that Lady Tangwystl included is a 15th C version of one of these dishes, which apparently were both popular and persistent in the cuisine. They occur early in collections, indicating that they tended to be served in the first course, and were viewed as hearty staples rather than delicacies (!). In addition, Utilis Coquinaria has recipes for primerole, pyany, heppee and vyolet, which call for primroses, peony blossoms and seeds, roses and rose hips, and violets respectively. Diuersa Servicia has a fritters recipe that calls for apple blossoms. All of these are available in _Curye on Ignlysch_, Constance B. Hieatt and Sharon Butler, editors, Oxford University Press (1985) ISBN 0-19-722409-1. If one is willing to go very slightly out of period (1609, if I recall the date correctly), there are several recipes for preserving and candying flower blossoms in Hugh Platt's _Delights for Ladies_. I got my copy of Hugh Platt from Cariadoc, in the first volume of his collection of medieval cookbooks. Good luck. -- Angharad/Terry From: hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Pre-1600 flower dishes Date: 13 Mar 1994 17:34:08 GMT Organization: University of California, Berkeley >Greetings, all, from Angharad ver' Rhuawn. Again, I'm posting from Hossein's >account (mine being uncommunicative), but speaking only for myself. >> >at least in places I have lived. After roses, the most common flowers in >early English cuisine are hawthorne blossoms and elder blossoms. Right. Not >available at any price, at any time of year, in the quantities one would need >for even quite a small feast. > >-- Angharad/Terry I beg to differ. In central California, the red elder is practically a weed, growing profusely along roadsides (BAD collection site, due to car exhaust contamination) and in other uncultivated areas. In fact, they should be blooming about this time of year ... This is the same species as grows in Europe (according to my herbal) but should be differentiated from the dwarf elder (common in the eastern US). If you found someone helpful in the Golden Rivers (Sacramento) area, you might be able to get an express shipment of elder flowers that you fit your needs. Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: marian at world.std.com (marian walke) Subject: Re: Pre-1600 flower dishes - sources for flowers Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA Date: Wed, 23 Mar 1994 12:41:57 GMT Have you tried your local health food/organic food stores? Some of them sell dried flower parts (rose petals, rose hips, elder flowers, dried violets, etc) for making herbal teas. Also available in bulk from herb companies that do mail order - Frontier, Penn Herb, etc. While rather expensive (compared with roadside gathering the stuff), you have a good chance the items were meant for human consumption. --Marian of Edwinstowe, Carolingia, EK marian at world.std.com From: L Herr-Gelatt and J R Gelatt <liontamr at postoffice.ptd.net> Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 09:39:55 -0500 (CDT) Subject: SC - Edible Flowers Hello all. Today's thunderstorms are making me stay inside rather than be outside planting my herb beds. Ras, I found and identified several red thrips yesterday! I also found a bright green beetle, and they were all in the same bed as an orange salamander, so I guess they weren't long for this world! Anyway, as I was planting, I realized that I have very little knowledge of edible flowers. I've been wondering if someone could post a short list. These are the ones I know of, and I realize that they must be completely organicaly (?) grown to be truely edible: Rose Pink Marigold Nasturtium Dandelion Violet strawberry The flowers of edible herbs What else can I add to the list? Aoife, dying for an excuse to buy more plants From: PETERSR at spiegel.becltd.com (Peters, Rise J.) Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 12:12:28 -0500 Subject: RE: SC - Edible Flowers >>Carnations, but not if they're dyed. But they don't have much taste (kind of like lettuce). From: "Sue Wensel" <swensel at brandegee.lm.com> Date: 19 May 1997 11:23:00 -0500 Subject: Re: SC - Edible Flowers > These are the ones I know of, and I realize that they must be completely > organicaly (?) grown to be truely edible: > > Rose > Pink > Marigold > Nasturtium > Dandelion > Violet Only the blue/purple violet flowers are safe to eat. Don't eat white or pink violets. > strawberry > The flowers of edible herbs Be wary of the last. Not all parts of any plant are safe for consumption; for example, the root of the potato plant is edible but the remainder of it is not. I believe the fruit of the tomato is safe, but the remainder of the plant is not (I could be misremembering). > What else can I add to the list? Prim rose was eaten in period. > Aoife, dying for an excuse to buy more plants Derdriu (who has this silly idea that all gardeners and period cooks would benefit from having several herbals just lying around) From: Uduido at aol.com Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 20:53:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: SC - Edible Flowers In a message dated 97-05-19 10:53:07 EDT, you write: << What else can I add to the list? >> Lilacs Gladioli Mums (not period) Chive bloosoms Onion Blossoms Pea Blossoms(One of my favorites) Squash bloosoms (not period except those of the Luffa gourd) Sweet woodruff blossoms Iris, German Calendula (pot marigold) Lord Ras From: Philip E Cutone <flip+ at andrew.cmu.edu> Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 13:20:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: SC - Re: Sugar v Honey a related topic currently happening here can be found at: http://www.watervalley.net/users/jtn/Articles/flowers.html which is cooking with flowers... :) In Service to the People of the Society, Filip of the Marche From: Baaastard at aol.com Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 11:34:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: SC - Edible Flowers Pansys can be added to the list of edible flowers, but I don't know if they were used in period. Later, Michael Farrell From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 09:52:39 -0400 Subject: Re: SC - Hello--this is the requested intro by a newcomer. Welcome, Joan! GARNER at admin.hnc.edu wrote: > I have a (hopefully) simple question: are sugared flowers suitable for > ornamenting late medieval French food? I'm not a raging purist by any > means, but if they are strictly a Victorian conceit, then even I would > have to draw the line! > > Joan Garner Nyah! Ah! Ah! (Or other designated evil chuckle...) We always hope our questions are simple! Actually, the simple answer is: I dunno. The complex answer is that recipes for various candied flowers are found in some late-period English sources. The one that comes to mind first is Elinor Fettiplace's Receipt Book, which, as we all know, Emerged Fully Grown From The Forehead of Zeus in 1604 ; ), and most of the recipes therein are from some unspecified prior date. I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that candied flowers are a descendant of the various confited (in this case sugared) spices, although the method for producing them is slightly different. I do know that spice confits show up frequently in medieval recipes as a garnish for various foods, but I'm aware of no direct evidence that this was ever done with candied flowers. On the other hand, if they weren't used in that way, what DID they do with them? So, the extreme likelihood, based on what we really know, is that candied flowers did exist in what the SCA regards as late period England, and might well have been found in France too. They might have been used as a garnish for food, and they might not. I hope this helps. G. Tacitus Adamantius From: Alys of Foxdale <foxdale at wolfstar.com> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 21:36:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: SC - Rosehip recipe > I was out dead-heading my White Rose of York climber and there were > already some rosehips forming. I remembered that my brother used to make > a rosehip jelly, but I can't find any recipes (period or modern) for it. > Any one know if this is period? Have a recipe? > > Thanks. > > Julleran Ok, I've been swamped for a couple of days, and I don't know if anyone has posted anything yet, so I apologize in advance if this is a repeat of anything. All of these are from "Rose Recipes from Olden Times" by Eleanour Sinclair Rohde, Dover edition ["Unabridged, unaltered republication of original (1939) edition.]. Some of her recipes have attributions attached, others not. I have made sure I have reproduced the recipes as exactly as I can, given the limitations of straight ASCII text (i.e., those are not typos down there in the Russian recipe). Alys of Foxdale Shire of Stierbach, Kingdom of Atlantia mka Sallie Montuori Chantilly, Virginia, USA foxdale at wolfstar.com ROSE HIP MARMALADE Ingredients: Wild rose hips, Sugar. Method. To every pound of Rose hips allow half a pint of water. Boil till the fruit is tender. Pass the pulp through a sieve fine enough to keep back the seeds. To each pound of pulp allow a pound of preserving sugar. Boil till it jellies. TO MAKE A CONSERVE OF ROSE HIPS Gather the hips before they grow soft, cut off the heads and stalks, slit them in halves, and take out all the seeds and white that is in them very clean; then put in an earthen pan, and stir them every day else they will grow mouldy; let them stand till they are soft enough to rub through a coarse hair sieve; as the pulp comes take it off the seive; they are a dry berry; will require pains to rub it through; then add its weight in sugar, and mix it well together without boiling; keeping it in deep gallipots for use. -- E. Smith. The Complete Housewife 1736. TO MAKE A TART OF HIPS Take hips, cut them and take out the seeds very clean, then wash them and season them with sugar, cinnamon and ginger, close the tart, bake it scrape on sugar and serve it in. -- The Art and Mystery of Cookery Approved by the Fifty-five Years Experience and Industry of Robert May 1671. MARMALADE FROM ROSE HIPS To every pound of hips allow half a pint of water; boil till the fruit is tender, then pass the pulp through a sieve which will keep back the seeds. To each pound of pulp add one pound of preserving sugar and boil until it jellies. -- E. G. Hayden. Travels Round Our Village. JAM MADE WITH THE BERRIES OF WILD DOG ROSES Choose ripe large sound berries from a dog rose bush (Eglantine). They should be hard. Scrape each berry and cut off tip through opening remove pulp with the aid of a bodkin or tiny spoon, being careful not to break berry. Tie a piece of linen round the bodkin or little spoon and wipe the inside to remove any pulp that may remain. There are fine hairs which must be removed. Drop berries into cold water and rinse several times shaking about to make sure that all little hairs are gone. Put into a saucepan, pour over boiling water, put on fire and as soon as the water boils again pour berries out on a sieve and pour cold water over them, Then put a clean cloth over the sieve and put each berry standing with the little hole underneath to drain well. Prepare syrup. For every pound of berries use 3 lb. sugar and 23/4 2 and 3/4 cups water. Let it boil twice then put in berries and cook till tender. Remove scum which forms on jam. When tender pour into china bowl, tie a cloth over and let stand for several days. Every now and then move the bowl about, so that the berries are well filled with the syrup. Pour into jars and close with air-tight stoppers or parchment paper. Keep in a dry place. -- The Russian Cook Book. Compiled and translated by Princess Alexandre Gazarene 1924. From: DdreMacNam at aol.com Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 12:07:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: SC - Edible Flowers Good Gentles , Here's one more for the list of edible flowers , Carnations, they have a peppery flavor,according to my father that is I've never tried them myself. Deirdre From: Mark Schuldenfrei <schuldy at abel.MATH.HARVARD.EDU> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 12:32:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: SC - Edible Flowers Here's one more for the list of edible flowers , Carnations, they have a peppery flavor,according to my father that is I've never tried them myself. Unbelievably mild. In combination with even the dullest blanc mange, the flavor of the carnation would be lost. Tibor (Herbivore) From: "Marisa Herzog" <marisa_herzog at macmail.ucsc.edu> Date: 20 Jun 1997 09:30:37 -0700 Subject: Re: SC - Edible Flowers >>Here's one more for the list of edible flowers , >>Carnations, they have a peppery flavor,according to my father >>that is I've never tried them myself. Carnations are related to pinks/dianthus and sweet-williams, which were refered to as "gilly flowers" in the middle ages. They are edible and show up in period recipes, especially sweets. According to recipes and herb books they are supposed to have a slight clove flavor. They are pictured in many borders of illuminations. Note for using flowers (if people don't already know) pinch off the white part at the base of petals, as this is bitter and a little nasty tasting. From: Uduido at aol.com Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 09:03:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: SC - Nasturtiums In a message dated 97-06-20 21:12:39 EDT, you write: << Now, for a peppery flower, go for a nasturtium! >> These would be good, however, I would point out that nasturtiums are new world. An exciting peppery flavor can be obtained from radish blossoms also. Lord Ras From: nweders at mail.utexas.edu (ND Wederstrandt) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 16:30:45 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: SC - peony According to the Texas A & M University page on edible flowers... peonies are edible. If you are interested I can give you the page since they specialize in developing new strains of various things. They are the ones who developed the mild jalapeno strain. A very strange bird (mild hot pepper)... Anyway they posted a whole list of edible flowers including peonies. Clare St. John From: Aldyth at aol.com Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 18:06:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: SC - edible flowers and pickles I just came across two recipes in my wanderings. _A New Booke of Cookerie_ by John Murrell 1615. Falconwood press. No redactions yet, but see if they help. A Sallet of Rose-Buds, and clove Gilly-flowers PIcke Rosebuds, and put them into an earthen Pipkin, with white Wine-vinegar and Sugar: so you may use Cowslippes, Violets, or Rosemary flowers. To keep greene Cucembers all the yeere Cut sixe Cucumbers in pieces, boile them in Spring-water, Sugar and Oyll, a walme or two. Take them up and let your picke stand until it be cold. To keepe Brome Capers Boyle the greates and hardest buds of Brome, in Wine-vinegar, and Bay Salt; scum it cleane: when it is colde you may put in Raw ones also, each by themselves: put in a piece of Lead on the raw ones: for all that swim will be blacke, and the other that are pressed downe as greene as any Leeke. The boyld ones will change colour. Aldyth Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 09:25:08 -0400 From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: Re: SC - Gillyflowers Just a further blab or two on this subject: Hieatt and Butler seem to feel that the reference to "clowes gilfre" in Utilis Coquinario are to the spice, cloves, or to use the more precise German term, Speissnageln (Spice Nails). With one exception that I've been able to find, the recipes in the source manuscript for Utilis Coquinario specify, in recipes calling for flowers, that the ingredient is "flowers of_____". This is true of hawthorne, appletree, primroses, violets, and bean plants. As I say, the one exception appears to be roses, in a recipe simply calling for roses. Adamantius Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 03:01:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Varju at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - Flower fritters If any one has and interest, I have a recipe translation from a slightly out of period Hungarian cookbook for a dish called "Rose Doughnuts" (battered and deep fried roses). I had meant to post earlier, but I was also hoping to find the cookbook sooner as well. Once I find the cookbook I'll post the recipe. Noemi Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 20:08:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Varju at aol.com Subject: SC - Rose Doughnut recipe Here it is, as promised. This translation comes from _The Cuisine of Hungary_ by George Lang. The recipe is originaly from _The Book of Mihaly Szent-Benedeki_ published August 10, 1601. Rose Doughnut Make a batter of egg, flour and as much whey as necessary for right consitancy. Take a fully developed white or red rose with some of stem: wash it, and put it into a clean bowl to drain. Dip it into the light batter, and stand it up in plenty of hot butter to fry. Shake it every now and then to make sure its petals will stand apart as they did on the rosebush. If you add some rosewater, so much the better. Flavor with cane honey. I take no responsibility for the translation, since I didn't do it. This does sound interesting though, doesn't it? Noemi Date: 2 Oct 1997 14:51:29 -0500 From: "Sue Wensel" <swensel at brandegee.lm.com> Subject: SC - Re: sca-cooks V1 #324 Aoife writes: ><< > I have a large number of wild rose hips growing, and I'd like to harvest > them and do something.I've been bitten by that "preserve for the winter" > bug. Someone once lent me a source that had "A Tarte of Hyppes" in it, but I > can't track it down now. Do any of you have any other ideas?>>>> Diana replies: > Hummmm, the one time I tried this with the wild roses growing on the >edge my parents land, I didn't have much luck. They had tiny hips, that were >mostly seed. They never softened a great deal despite long boiling and >certainly never gave up enough flesh to do anything with. The best that those >would be useful for would be tea, or making jelly from the juice. Instead of boiling the hips, try decocting (simmering) a teaspoon of hips in a cup of water for 15-20 minutes. *Don't let it boil* (this seems to nasty things when you are trying to rehydrate anything). It does wonders with dried rosehips. Macerate them in a mortar and pestle. All this was done in preparation for making rose-hip butter, which was a greater success than even the honey butter! I macerated the rose hips, then added them and a drop or two of honey (and a couple drops of the juice) to the butter. And I was left with a wonderful tea to drink afterward. I wonder what this would taste like with a little vinegar and oil and put over a salad?? Maybe done as muffins -- use the rose hip tea in lieu of the water? Rose bread?? Derdriu Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 20:17:15 -0400 From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow) Subject: Re: SC - Rose Hips Hello! The reference you asked about is "Rose Recipes from Olden Times" by E. S. Rohde, rpt. Dover Publ., Inc, New York, 1973. I'm pretty sure it's still in print. The tart of rose hips is on p. 75: "To Make a Tart of Hips Take hips, cut them and take out the seeds very clean, then wash them and season them with sugar, cinnamon and ginger, close the tart, bake it scrape on sugar and serve it in. From The Art and Mystery of Cookery Approved by the Fifty-five Years Experience and Industry of Robert May 1671." Other recipes include Marmalade, Jam, conserve of rose hips, and sauce eglantine. Most of the other recipes are for petals, not hips. Hope this helps! Cindy/Sincgiefu renfrow at skylands.net Date: Sun, 5 Oct 1997 03:29:06 +0200 (METDST) From: Par Leijonhufvud <parlei at ki.se> Subject: SC - Rose hip soup Found a recipie in an old cookbook. Not period, but still usefull. - -------------------------- Rose Hip Soup (6 servings) (From: "Hemmets kokbok, 31st ed", Norstedt & Soner Forlag, Stockholm 103, 1930) 5-6 dL rosehips, deseeded 2.5-3 L water 1.5-2 dl sugar 1 1/2 T potato starch (25 g almonds (scalded and slivered)) 1. Put the rosehips in cold water and bring to a boil. Let boil until soft. Whisk forcefully now and then. 2. Pass through a coleander, and add sugar. 3. Thicken with the potatoe starch dissolved in some water and brought to a boil. 4. Adjudst sweetness to taste, and serve, either as is or with slivered almonds. - -------------------------- Please note my discussion earlier regarding the vitamin C and boiling. Personally I would use a mixer to puree, rather than passing through the coleander. For the metrically impared: 1 dL= 0.1 Litre = 3.5 fl oz (US) 1 litre = 34 fl oz (US) 25 g = 25 grams = 0.9 oz /UlfR - -- Par Leijonhufvud par.leijonhufvud at labtek.ki.se Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 11:07:42 -0500 From: gfrose at cotton.vislab.olemiss.edu (Terry Nutter) Subject: Re: SC - Rose Hips Hi, Katerine here. Aiofe asks about things to do with rose hips. There's a recipe for Heppee, a rose hip pottage, in one of the 14th C MSs in Cury on Inglysch. - -- Katerine/Terry Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 22:10:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Aine <aine at shocking.com> Subject: Re: SC - rose hips vs. rose petals > Are rose hips different from rose petals? Are they the same thing > but different names for different stages of the flower? > > Stefan li Rous YES there is a difference!!!! Rose petals of course are rose petals, the rose hips on the other hand are the swollen parts of the rose, right after the stem and before the "flower" part. On blooming roses they're normally green, however, once the flower part has died, (ON the bush) the hip is left and ripens to a reddish-orange color. Aine (the one in the West) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 01:44:59 -0400 From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: Re: SC - rose hips vs. rose petals > Are rose hips different from rose petals? Are they the same thing > but different names for different stages of the flower? > > Stefan li Rous Rose hips are the fruit of the rose plant. If you watch an apple tree bloom, and watch the blooms wither away and then all you have left is the stump of the bloom, which then grows into an apple. In the same way, rose hips are the sour fruit of the rose, which, by the way, are closely related to apples, hence the imagery. Adamantius Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 23:47:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Varju at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - Classes: More Last Minute Tips Requests <<I found a Rose Doughnut recipe that I am incorporating--I think Noemi posted it originally. Can I get biblio information on the book of origin?>> The original source is: _The Book of Mihaly Szent-Benedeki_, August 10, 1601 I found the translation in: _The Cuisine of Hungary_, George Lang, pub. in 1990 by Bonanza Books, dist by Crown Publishers, Inc. New York, copyright 1971 by George Lang, recipe is on page 26. Noemi Date: Fri, 07 Nov 1997 15:06:05 -0900 From: Steve & Kerri Geppert <emster at alaska.net> Subject: Re: SC - Cornflowers Meliora & Drake wrote: > All of my cornflowers are currently out in bloom. I remember reading (in > Fettiplace I think) a recipe for pickling or preserving the flowers for use > in salads in the winter. However, in re-reading Fettiplace I cannot find > the reference. I found a recipe for preserving Clove Gilliflowers (Pinks) > for the same purpose, but not the cornflowers. > > Can anyone help with references to using cornflowers in/as food ?? My main > interest is early Renaissance but any time in "SCA period" would do. > > Meliora > meliora at macquarie.matra.com.au My Martha Washington's Booke of Cookery and Booke of Sweetmeats has three or four recipes for pickling and preserving flowers. The names of the flowers given are: "cloue gillyflowers, cowslips burrage & marrigoulds." There is also a recipe called "Another way for keeping of flowers which is accounted better then ye first" which doesn't specify any particular type of flowers. Don't know if these are what you may be looking for. The recipes in this book aren't redacted, just the recipe with comments by the transciptionis, Karen Hess. If you would like them let me know and I'll forward them to you. Lady Clare Canton Inbhir na da Abhann Date: Sat, 08 Nov 1997 12:25:11 -0900 From: Steve & Kerri Geppert <emster at alaska.net> Subject: Re: SC - Cornflowers Meliora & Drake wrote: > I don't have a copy of Hess yet, so if you could post these recipes I would > be exceedingly grateful. However, they do not specifically mention > cornflowers. I must be going mad, I am sure I read them specifically > mentioned somewhere !! > > Lady Meliora. To Pickle Cloue Gillyflowrs Cowslips Burrage & Marrigoulds Clip your flowers clean from ye whites & cover them over in white wine vinegar, sweetned with sugar, & shake ye glasses you put them in often, & when you discover your pickle to shrink, add more to it. Hess notes that these flowers brought a sour-sweet fillip (?) to the winter table when pickled. Anoter Way For Keeping of Flowers Which Is Accounted Better Then ye First Take yr flowers & shread them a little, then take about halfe a pound of lofe sugar, & beat it small & put it in a pewter dish with a little water. boyle it up to a candy height, then put in yr flowers, giveing of them a stir together. when they are cold, put your flowers into papers made into bagtgs, & hang them neer ye fire. when you use them, put to ym a little vinnegar, & soe serve them up. Hess counsels that not all pewter is able to withstand direct heat so don't be tempted. Both these are from the Booke of Cookery, page 171, recipes 166 & 167. The Booke of Sweetmeats has a description of candy height: To Know When Your Sugar is at Candy Height When yr sugar is at a candy height, which is the second height it comes to, it will draw between your fingers in great flakes like bird lime, and then it is at a just height eyther to candy or for any other things. Hess comments that bird lime is a viscous sticky substance prepared from the bark of holly and used to catch small birds. In Old English, she further states, it meant any adhesive, but now it is only poetic (OED). She also comments that the temperature of this syrup is 220 degrees F. Recipe from Booke of Sweetmeats, page 227, recipe 5. Hope this helps. Good luck. Let me know how this turns out. Our flowers are long gone and currently sleeping under a blanket of snow. I'm envious that you have a splash of color in November. Lady Clare Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:44:31 -0600 (CST) From: jeffrey s heilveil <heilveil at students.uiuc.edu> Subject: SC - an offering... Good day. I have recently fell upon a recipie from my cousin in Denmark, and whilst I cannot vouche for any periodicity of the item, she said it was a marmelade well worth the trouble. Having seen some non-periods floating along, I thought this might be acceptable... - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Of course we have a recipe! For every 750 g cleaned rose hips, you use 500 g sugar and 1/2 water and one teaspoonful of thickening agent. You boil the rose hips and the water for 20 minutes covered. Then you add most of the sugar (say 450 g of it) , stir to dissolve, and boil an additional 10 minutes or until the hips are tender. Finally, you add the thickener (over here it is called Melatine, <<use a canning gelatin>> mixed in with the remaining sugar. Pour into jars and the rest is obvious!!! Good luck with it. Be careful of the thorns when picking the hips, and be sure to wear rubber gloves when you clean them as those fibers are itchy! We generally just cut the hips in half and then remove all the seeds. It is quite a bit of work! In all, we had 3.2 kg of cleaned hips, which made about 7 liters of marmelade in all!!!! I brought a jar with to work today to eat with the traditional Friday morning bread, and it disappeared very quickly! So that is encouraging. Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 16:16:58 -0800 From: "James L. Matterer" <jlmatterer at labyrinth.net> Subject: SC - Fritelles 177. (Clary Fritters): Take the herb called clary and grind it, steep it in pure water and beat well sieved flour into this; add in some honey and a little white wine and beat these together until smooth; then fry small spoonfuls of this mixture in oil, as is done for fritters, and put rosemary generously on each fritter; squeeze your fritters between two blades to drain off the oil, then put them in a fine new pot beside the fire. Dress them on a plate with sugar. (Le Viandier de Taillevent, Terence Scully's edition, p. 297) Scully says Clary is Clary Sage (Salvia sclarea) which "has tall flowering spikes and a taste reminiscent of grapefruit." He also goes on to say that the Liber de coquina has another version of the recipe that "offers a broad choice in the matter of flavoring by specifying elderflowers or any other flower." I would prefer to use actual Clary in this recipe: does anyone know of availability or a viable substitute? Yours, Huen/Jim Matterer http://www.labs.net/dmccormick/huen.htm Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 09:12:19 -0800 From: "Crystal A. Isaac" <crystal at pdr-is.com> Subject: Re: SC - viola, pansies, etc. An interesting (but very modern) book is Cathy Wilkinson Barash's _Edible Flowers from Garden to Palate_. Published by Fulcrum Publishing. Golden, CO. 1995 ISBN 1-55591-246-1. Lots of pictures. Do any of the modern herb books include flowers? Crystal Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 09:20:57 +1000 From: Robyn Probert <robyn.probert at lawpoint.com.au> Subject: Re: SC - Food Question: Squashes and Gourds Zucchini flower recipies as promised... I think it is likely that these were a delicacy in our period too, but I haven't found any period sources for these, nor (so far) any italian food paintings showing the flowers. If anyone has any info, please let me know! On the the food. First, you should understand that zucchini actually have both male and female flowers. The male ones grow on tall thin stalks and are more open. The female ones grow on short fat stalks. Once they are fertilised, the base of the flower swells, elongates and turns into... a zucchini. You can use the male &/or female flowers to stuff. To use the female ones, you have to sacrifice your zucchini at baby stage, before the flower withers and drops off. The baby zucchini look and taste nice anyway. Try and stuff the flowers soon after you have picked them, because the flowers close, making the process harder. If this isn't possible, store them wrapped in damp paper towels in a plastic bag in the fridge. To prepare, remove the cntre stamen, remove any insects :) rinse if necessary and dry. Stuffing 1 (for 12 flowers) Mix together: 1.5 cups ricotta 1 bunch chives, chopped 1 egg, beaten 4 Tbsp parmesan Salt, pepper, nutmeg Stuffing 2 (12 flowers): 60g mozzarella, diced 2 slices procuitto, diced Stuffing 3 (12 flowers): 60g mozzarella, diced (or a mix of ricotta and mozzarella) 6 anchovy fillets, mashed Use a teaspoon or piping bag to fill the flowers. You can just twist them closed or tie them closed using a blanched (dipped in boiling water) chives or strips of leek, or even kitchen string if desperate. Dip in batter (beer batter, cornflour batter, etc*) and fry in olive oil. Drain, sprinkle with a little salt and serve hot. *A basic batter 2 eggs, separated. Beat the whites until rocky, mix the yolks with... 1/2 cup flour, and 4 tbsp cold water, then fold in the egg whites. Hope you like them! Rowan Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 21:58:24 EDT From: LrdRas at aol.com Subject: SC - Squash flowers as period food robyn.probert at lawpoint.com.au writes: << think it is likely that these were a delicacy in our period too, but I haven't found any period sources for these, nor (so far) any italian food paintings showing the flowers. If anyone has any info, please let me know! >> I hate to be the bearer of bad news here but the flowers of white flowered guords luffas, Italian Edible, Gooseneck, Bird's Nest) are no more than 1 inch across unlike the flowers of New World squashes which can attain rather large demensions. They would be next to impossible to stuff with anything. The suggestion for substituting Zucchini for the actual guords indicated was merely an attempt to offer a substitution that had a taste, texture and appearance similar to the real thing. My apologies if that suggestionsd has caused any confusion. Ras Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 13:10:18 +1000 From: "HICKS, MELISSA" <HICKS_M at casa.gov.au> Subject: RE: SC - Rose-Hips > From: Ray Nevin[SMTP:nevray at netspace.net.au] > Does anybody have any recipes using rosehips - period or otherwise? > There is too many to waste > > Sharon There are plenty of recipes using Rose Hips in Elinor Fettiplace (Renaissance cooking I know). Also Martha Washington's too I believe. If you cannot get hold of these two, give me a call and I'll bring them with me next time I visit your group. Mel. Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 09:17:11 -0600 (MDT) From: Ann Sasahara <ariann at nmia.com> Subject: SC - 3 Rose-Hip Recipes I have found the following book useful: Rhode, Eleanour Sinclair, Rose Recipes form Olden Times, Dover, 1973, 95p. ISBN: 0-486-22957-2 _______________________________ Sauce Eglantine for mutton from Balmoral Castle (may be OOP) Briar rose hips sugar lemon juice Remove all seeds from the hips and then make a puree of them with as little water as possible. Sweeten to taste and add a little lemon juice. ____________________________ Rose Hip Marmalade wild rose hips sugar To every pound of rose hips allow half a pint of water. Boil till the fruit is tender. Pass through a sieve fine enough to hold back the seeds. To each pound of pulp allow a pound of sugar. Boil till it jellies. ____________________________ To Make a Tart of Rose Hips (Robert May, 1671) Take hips, cut them and take out the seeds very clean, then wash them and season them with sugar, cinnamon and ginger, close the tart and bake it scrape on suger and serve it in. Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 20:01:13 -0400 From: Susan Wensel <sewensel at bellatlantic.net> Subject: Re: SC - Rose-Hips I have developed a rather lovely butter using rosehips and honey for flavor. Unfortunately, my school of recipies uses rather subjective terminology, so you may have to experiment a little to get it to work out. Bring several tablespoons of rosehips to a boil in about a cup to a cup and a half of water. Simmer until the rosehips soften. Strain, reserving the water. Using a hand potato masher (use a strong one), mash the rosehips. Push the mashed rosehips through a strainer to remove the seeds. Take butter out of your fridge to soften. When the rosehips are mashed and cooled, and the butter soft enough to work with, blend 1/2 to 1 teaspoon of rosehips to a stick of butter. Add a little honey to sweeten and make the butter a little more pliable. Be careful not to use too much rosehip or the butter may separate. You can beat it back together, but that's a serious pain in the neck. Richenda Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 12:32:49 EDT From: Seton1355 at aol.com Subject: SC - REC; Rose Petal Preserve I am passing along this recipe for rose petal preserves. It comes from a German woman on my Jewish list. I haven't tried it but tuck it away til next year's rose petal crop comes in, Phillipa << -Unboiled rose preserves- 2 lbs/1 kg sugar, 1/2 lb/250 g rose petals In a jar or clay pot, place one layer of sugar, one layer of rose petals and so on until the jar is full. Take care to have a layer of sugar on top. Place 2-3 rounds of white paper on top. Tie the jar with two layers of cellophane and some white paper and keep in a cool, dry and dark place. This makes delicious rose preserves. Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 12:48:43 EDT From: Seton1355 at aol.com Subject: SC - ROSE PRESERVES Here's another rose preserve recipe from my Jewish group. Phillipa << ************** Rose preserves (Dulceatza de trandafiri) 2 lbs/1 kg sugar, 3/4 qt/3/4 l water, 1/2 lb/250 g rose petals with white parts removed, juice from 1 lemon Set the sugar and water to boil with the lemon juice until well thickened. During boiling, keep removing the foam until the syrup is clear. While the syrup is boiling, sprinkle some lemon juice onto the rose petals and rub with your hands. When the syrup is thickened, add the rose petals and simmer. Place into jars when cold. Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 10:24:19 -0500 From: Wajdi <a14h at zebra.net> Subject: SC - Advice on copyright, please I recently obtained a copy of Rose Recipes from Olden Times, by Eleanour Sinclair Rohde, published by Dover Publications, Inc of New York. This is "an unabridged and unaltered republication of the work first published by Routledge in 1939 under the title Rose Recipes." It appears to be a collection of recipes using roses from various older sources, including Delights for Ladies, Sir Hugh Platt, 1594; Askham's Herbal, 1550; The Treasurie of Hidden Secrets & Commodious Conceits, John Partridge, 1586; and The Good Housewife's Handmaid, 1585. I can find no copyright listed at all anywhere in the book. Its a paperback, of 95 pages, and interests me greatly. So, my question is; is this material considered public information and can I post recipes to the list without worries? Or do I have to keep it to myself? I really don't know about this copyright stuff. wajdi Subject: RE: Crystallized Rose Petals Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 17:44:52 -0700 From: Becky McEllistrem <beckymc at MICROSOFT.com> To: "'atlantia at atlantia.sca.org'" <atlantia at atlantia.sca.org> Actually this is easily resolved nowadays by calling your florists ahead of time and explaining what you're doing. A friend of mine called several in our town and found two that sold organically grown, chemically free flowers. I think decorating cakes with real flowers is getting to be a popular enough idea that modern larger florists are beginning to take note. Rebecca -----Original Message----- From: Joyce A. Baldwin [mailto:jocetta at pobox.com] Sent: Monday, September 27, 1999 5:32 AM To: The Merry Rose Subject: Re: Crystallized Rose Petals >>crystallized rose petals as a garnish. Does anyone out there know how >>this is done? >Joyce A. Baldwin A "just in case" warning -- do not use commercial roses! They are sold for decoration only and are rather heavily treated with various insecticides and fungicides that are poisonous if eaten. If you haven't grown them yourself, make sure you know whether or not they have been treated with any chemicals. (This issue came up on the Eastrealm list a few years ago). Jocetta Lady Jocetta Thrushleigh of Rowansgarth Exchequer, Canton of Buckston on Eno Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 22:11:24 EST From: LrdRas at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - Rosee or Morree lcm at efn.org writes: << The beautiful rose bush along the side of the house produced copious amounts of blooms- that were vile to taste! >> What sort of vile? Bitter? You have to remove all of the white part of the petal before using to remove the bitterness. Rose petals without the white part really have little or no taste to them except, well, roses if they are species roses. Tea roses and hybrid roses also have little or no flavor if the bitter white part of the petals are removed. I use both copiously and often when they are blooming, both for salads and as a soup/stew ingredient. Ras Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 10:18:25 -0500 From: "Hupman, Laurie" <LHupman at kenyon.com> Subject: RE: SC - Rosee or Morree I gave my friend Wulfric a pair of rosebushes about two years ago -- a damask and a moschata, both dating from the 1500's. The moschata bloomed, and produced the sweetest cream colored blossoms you could imagine. He used them to make rosee, and it came out as a most fragrant, cream-colored pudding. He had to pluck the flowers on the day they bloomed, or else they would turn brown and wilt, but he was able to keep them fresh in a small tupperware container in the refrigerator until he had enough to experiment with. Rose :) Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 00:48:05 -0600 From: "RANDALL DIAMOND" <ringofkings at mindspring.com> Subject: Daylilies (Was SC - Birthdays and Daffy Dills) Marian Rosenberg asks: >>>The yellow flower with the raised center bit thingy that also comes in miniatures that you see in the grocery store is a daffodil. However, I've got the wrong name. I'm thinking of the orange/yellow flower with the streaks of color down the center of the petal, saffron colored pollen. Tastes like fresh lettuce. Anyone have any clue what I'm talking about?<<< I can't imagine your mystery flower being anything but a member of the genus Hemerocallis, probably species fulva, variety 'Europa'. This is the common wild or Tawny Daylily. The other period variety is Hemerocallis flava, the Lemon daylily (named for the colour, not the taste incidently). These varieties are completely edible and most delish (as are ALL daylilies, but most are too beautiful to eat). They are even period, being introduced from the Russias to western Europe in the mid 16th century. Also they were certainly a food source in the wild state in their native Trans-Caucus regions by farm dwellers (though not likely the nobility, such as there existed then after Ghengis Khan and his boys trashed the place several times over). These plants are a veritable grocery produce department by themselves. The orientals prefer the fresh blossoms; likely you encountered these in some oriental salad or cookery to be asking. The spent flowers (they DO only last a single day you know) are also quite edible; even though closed and limp, they impart a wonderful flavour to soups and make it slightly gelatinus like okra. Try this if you can get a quantity of withered blooms this spring (the extra fancy blooms will be ok too): Saute 1/2 pound fresh pork cut into bite size pieces, until nicely browned. Add 1 quart water, 2 tablespoons of soy sauce and 1 teaspoon salt. Cover and simmer slowly for an hour until the pork is very tender. Replenish water as it boils away to the original level. Add 1 tightly packed cup of withered (yesterday's) blossoms and 1 teaspoon of monosodium glutamate. Cook a few minutes more until the blossoms are tender. Serve with steamed rice and green tea; the pork and blossoms with the rice. Serve the liquid as a soup with fresh petals for garnish. Elegant! This recipe comes from Euell Gibbons (the wild foods guru who died of stomach cancer ironically enough). I would very much suggest that cooks experienced in oriental cuisine can greatly improve this recipe with there own versions. MSG. Uggh! You can probably cut down the salt a lot too. Gibbons was not renowned as a great chef; he just ate a lot of unusual things. The blossoms may be dried and stored for later use also if you like them. The unopened buds are IMO the best phase of this vegetable. Boil them for about as long as you would some large asparagus shoots, drain and saute lightly in butter; or just butter them drained directly from the boiling water. They are better than the finest french greenbeans. Even more recommended (by Gibbons) are the young and crisp flower stalks as they shoot up about a foot high or so. They are reputed to be better than asparagus and are prepared the same way. I have never had the will to do this as it forfeits a month of lovely flowers renewed every day from each stalk sacrificed from the garden. However, if I come across a hidden wild patch sometimes, that is another matter. Tawny daylilies are sterile triploids and reproduce by underground runners which may be dug and prepared as if they were costly blanched white asparagus shoots. The plant roots have many small tubers from 1/2" to 3/4" in diameter which may be harvested in any season; washed, pared of small rootlets (but not peeled); then boiled in salt water for 15 minutes. Season as you would potatos or hominy. The lemon daylily tubers are better than the tawny (I have this on authority of my gophers who regard the Lemon root system as the finest delicaces). In spring, daylily tubers are very crisp and snowy white and can be put in salads as a raw vegetablelike water chestnuts. Don't feel like a vandal in the garden when eating them though; enough will be left in the ground to actually increase the number of plants you will have next season. The older plants benefit from a good thinning and bloom all the more heavily for it too. A last suggestion I offer is to dip the fresh blossoms in a rich egg batter and serve them piping hot as flower fritters. A splash of good Vermont maple syrup and you have a fine breakfast sweet dish. Anyone have any Asian or eastern European documentation on period comsumption of daylilies? They were first listed in Lobel and Pena (HISTORIA) in 1570 under the name Asphodelus luteus liliflorus (Lemon daylily) and by Lobel in 1576 as Liriosphodelus phoeniceus (Tawny daylily). Akim Yaroslavich Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 15:45:49 -0500 (EST) From: alysk at ix.netcom.com Subject: SC - Violet Recipes Greetings. Here are a bunch of violet gleanings from various sources. Note the use of gum arabic. Many of the ones I didn't copy are for violets solidified in a chunk of sugar, probably making the violet unrecognizable since hot sugar and a delicate violet work hazards on the flower. -- Alys Katharine Martha Washington's _Booke of Cookery_: "To candy flowers in theyr naturall culler" (#S85) "Take ye flowers with theyr stalks, & wash them in rose water, wherein gum arabeck is dissolved. then take fine searced sugar, & dust it over them. & set them A drying in a sive, set in an oven. & (they will) glister like sugar candy." "To candy violet flowers" (#S86) "Take violets which are new & well cullered. weigh them, and to every ounce of flowers take 4 ounces of very white refined sugar, & dissolve it in 2 ounces of water soe boyle it till it turn to sugar again, & scum it very often that it may be very clear, then take it of & let it coole. after, put in yr violet flowers, stiring them together till ye sugar grow hard to ye pan. yn put them in a box & keep them to dry in a stove. _A Closet for Ladies and Gentlewomen_, printed by John Haviland, 1636. "To candie all manner of flowers in their naturall colours" "Take the Flowers with the stalks and wash them over with a little Rose-water, wherein Gum-arabecke is dissolved; then take fine searced Sugar, and dust over them, and let them a drying on the bottome of a Sieve in an Oven, and they will gilster as if it were Sugar-candie." _The Ladies Cabinet_, 1655 "To candy all kinde of Flowers as they grow, with their stalks on." (#40) "Take the Flowers, cut the stalks somewhat short, then take one pound of the whitest and hardest sugar you can get, put to it eight spoonfuls of Rose-water, and boil it till it will roul between your finger and your thumb; then take it from the fire, cool it with a stick, and as it waxeth cold, dip in all your Flowers, and taking them out again suddenly, lay them one by one on the bottom of a sieve; then turne a joyned stool with the feet upward, set the sieve on the feet thereof, cover it with a fair linne cloth, and set a chafingdish of coals in the middest of the stool, underneath the sieve, and the heat thereof will run up to the sieve, and dry your Candy presently; then box them up, and they will keep all the yeer, and looke very pleasantly." _The Second Part of the Good Hus-wives Jewell_, Thomas Dawson, 1597. "To make sirrope of Violets" "First gather a great quantity of violet flowers, and pick them cleane from the stalkes and set them on the fire, and put to them so much Rosewater as you thinke good, then let them boile altogether untill the colour be forth of them then take them of the fire and straine them through a fine cloth, then put so much suger to them as you thinke good, then set it against the fire until it be somewhat thick, and put it into a violl glasse." _A True Gentlewoman's Delight_, W.I., Gent., 1653 "To make Oyle of Violets." "Set the Violets in Sallade oyle, and strain them, then put in other fresh Violets, and let them lye twenty dayes, then strain them again, and put in other fresh Violets, and let them stand all the year." Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 22:20:08 +0100 From: "Cindy M. Renfrow" <cindy at thousandeggs.com> Subject: Re: SC - Birthdays and Daffy Dills >From Gerard's Herbal - Marigold - pages 738-741 "Calendula. Marigold. The yellow leaues of the floures are dried and kept throughout Dutchland against Winter, to put into broths, in physicall potions, and for diuers other purposes, in such quantity, that in some Grocers or Spice-sellers houses are to be found barrels filled with them, and retailed by the penny more or lesse, insomuch that no broths are well made without dried Marigolds." I've heard Frank Purdue feeds his chickens calendula petals to give them that nice golden color. Regardimg Tagetes species ("French," "African," or "American" Marigolds -- the marigolds most often found in American flower gardens), Gerard thought them to be poisonous because they smelled "ranke and unwholesome" and because his cat allegedly died after eating some. Cindy Renfrow/Sincgiefu cindy at thousandeggs.com Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 06:31:45 EST From: CorwynWdwd at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - Birthdays and Daffy Dills LrdRas at aol.com writes: > Calendula, which are quite tasty, are also known as pot marigolds. > > Ras And they are VERY edible. Just don't confuse them with the African Marigold so often used in modern landscaping. Even Gerard says they're poisonous. I seem to remember him recounting a child dying from eating the then recently introduced African marigold, and he did an experiment with a chicken or a dog or something himself ... but alas my memory is poor and the book isn't at hand. If anybody's interested I'll look it up. Calendula however was used in soups and broths and was said to lighten the heart of the person consuming it. I use in in a concoction I call "Bruise Butter" mostly. Very popular in this neck of the woods. Corwyn Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 23:52:19 -0600 From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com> Subject: Re: SC - Saxon Violets 'Lainie asked about violet recipes a while back. Here is what looks rather like a violet pudding? Vyolette Two Fifteenth Century Cookery Books p. 29 Take Flourys of Vyolet, boyle hem, presse hem, bray hem smal, temper hem vppe with Almaunde mylke, or gode Cow Mylke, a-lye it with Amyndoun or Flowre of Rys; take Sugre y-now, an putte ther-to, or hony in defaute; coloure it with the same that the flowrys be on y-peyntid a-boue. [thorns replaced by th] Elizabeth/Betty Cook Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 11:08:26 -0600 From: "Michael F. Gunter" <michael.gunter at fnc.fujitsu.com> Subject: Re: SC - Saxon Violets > 'Lainie asked about violet recipes a while back. Here is what looks > rather like a violet pudding? > Vyolette > Two Fifteenth Century Cookery Books p. 29 > > Take Flourys of Vyolet, boyle hem, presse hem, bray hem smal, temper > hem vppe with Almaunde mylke, or gode Cow Mylke, a-lye it with > Amyndoun or Flowre of Rys; take Sugre y-now, an putte ther-to, or > hony in defaute; coloure it with the same that the flowrys be on > y-peyntid a-boue. [thorns replaced by th] > > Elizabeth/Betty Cook (well behind the list) I have a question about this recipe. Basically, here is my interpretation: Take violet petals, boil them in water, press them dry, mince. Add the minced petals to either Almond Milk or Cow's milk and stir in amyndoun or rice flour. Put in enough sugar to make it sweet or you can add honey if you prefer. I'm not sure about the last sentence. I guess it can mean present it so the flowers are represented above. I would think this would be heated or boiled until it comes together but no mention is made of heating the mixture. How does this become pudding like? Is the rice flour enough alone to thicken it? It sounds neat and a wonderful addition to something like a Queen's luncheon. I guess I'll have to try it myself. Gunthar Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 14:17:06 +1100 From: Lorix <lorix at trump.net.au> Subject: Re: SC - Violet Sugar Plate Was Saxon Violets david friedman wrote: > 'Lainie asked about violet recipes a while back. Here is what looks > rather like a violet pudding? > > Vyolette > Two Fifteenth Century Cookery Books p. 29 I have just found another recipe for violets for the use in making 'marbled' sugar plate in a book that I have been devouring (well not literally ;-) Sugar Plums & Sherbet - The Prehistory of Sweets, by Laura Mason ISBN: 0907325 831 For those interested in the book, it would make a nice addition to the library. Author goes thru the history of sweets & reprints 'period' recipes from various sources & then offers a redaction for some of them. It is extensively footnoted & sources quoted. It is also a good book for those learning how to make candy has it gives lots of technique info. I have given some extra info included in the book about the making & use of sugar plate in general for those interested & have copied the period & redacted recipe at the end. I would note that the period recipe calls for a number of different edible flowers. However, given the profusion of colours in violets, if all you needed was differing colours for the marbled effect, you could just use violets ;-) <snip of sugar-paste info. See the sugar-paste-msg file - Stefan> NOW FOR THE BIT OF INTEREST FOR LAINIE: Sugar plate could be coloured and scented with flowers. By using the results judiciously, it could be made to resemble fine marble as in the following recipe by 'W.M' (1655) 'A Queens Delight', Facsimile 1984, Prospect Books, London. "To make paste of flowers the colour of marble, tasting of the natural flowers: Take every sort of pleasing Flowers, as Violets, Cowslips, Gily-flowers, Roses, or Marigolds, and beat them in a Mortar, each flower by itself with sugar, till the sugar become the colour of the flower, then put in a little Gum Dragon steept in water into it, and beat into a perfect paste; and when you have half a dozen colours, every flower will take of his nature, then rowl the paste therein, and lay one piece upon another, in mingling sort, so rowl your Paste in small rowls, as big and as long as your finger, then cut it off the bigness of a small Nut, overthwart, and so rowl them thin, that you may see a knife through them, so dry them before the fire till they be dry". <snip of sugar-paste info. See the sugar-paste-msg file - Stefan> Lorix Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 11:14:58 -0800 From: lilinah at earthlink.net Subject: Re: SC - Saxon Violets 'Lainie wrote: > Where are you? I'm in Western Oregon, and they're all over. Not to quibble, but Lainie are you sure what are growing where you are are true violets? I know that in California some people call another plant, that is absolutely definitely not a viola family member and lacks violet scent a "violet" because it's small and purple (i don't know what it is, but it's a common ground cover, though). If anyone is planning to try this, make sure you are getting true violets. They are edible, as are their cousins the pansies, the johnnie-jump-ups, the good king henrys, etc. although these lack violet scent. Anahita al-shazhiyya Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 11:22:12 -0800 From: lilinah at earthlink.net Subject: Re: SC - Saxon Violets Lainie wrote: >Violas and violets are not the same thing- look similar, but not. Violas >are more closely related to pansies, IIRC. But violets ARE violas. Pansies and sweet violets are both types of vi