cook-flowers-msg - 11/25/16

Cooking with flowers. Medieval flower dishes.

NOTE: See also the files: herbs-msg, herbs-cooking-msg, Roses-a-Sugar-art, sotelties-msg, roses-art, lavender-msg, p-herbals-msg, gardening-bib.

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From: hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic,rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Pre-1600 flower dishes
Date: 11 Mar 1994 05:12:42 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley

In article <2lo4oq$isk at alpha.epas.utoronto.ca>,
Michael McKay <mmckay at epas.utoronto.ca> wrote:
>	A friend of mine is planning on hosting a feast in July called
>the "Feast of Flowers" and she wants me to cater it with pre-1600
>dishes that employ flowers. Can any of you give me some recipes or sources?
>Thank you.
>

Look for a recipie called "Sambocade". In its original form (many later
corrupted versions appear) it was a fritter of elder flowers. If you can find, 
it, there is a facsimile reprint (probably by the "English Experience"
series, but I'm missing some of the title pages) of a 1653 book entitled
"A Book of Fruits and Flowers" that has some relevant recipies -- although
later than your target period. The collection "A Fifteenth Century Cookry
Boke" has the following recipie:

Roseye

Take Almaunde Mylke and flowre of Rys, & Sugre, an Safroun,
an boyle hem y-fere; than take Red Rosys, and grynd fayre in a
morter with Almaunde mylke; than take Loches, an toyle hem with
Flowre, an frye hem, & ley him in dysshys; than take gode pouder,
and do in the Sewe, & caste the Sewe a-bouyn the lochys, & serve forth.

In other words, make a sauce of almond milk and rose petals thickened
with rice flour, and pour it over fried fish.

The same source has sauces/puddings (in the modern sense) flavored with
primroses, hawthorn flowers, or violets. Check it out.

Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glavryn  


From: davesg at netaxs.com (David J. Szent-Gyorgyi)
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic,rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Pre-1600 flower dishes
Date: 14 Mar 1994 05:45:28 GMT
Organization: Magyarotropic Medievialophiles

Michael McKay (mmckay at epas.utoronto.ca) wrote:
: 	A friend of mine is planning on hosting a feast in July called
: the "Feast of Flowers" and she wants me to cater it with pre-1600
: dishes that employ flowers. Can any of you give me some recipes or sources?
: Thank you.

The recipe below is taken from George Lang's THE CUISINE OF HUNGARY. It
is one of seven English-language translations for recipes provided in
the history of Hungarian cuisine at the front of the book. The recipes
are taken from an early sixteenth-century manuscript now in the
Szechenyi Library in Budapest, and from THE BOOK OF MIHALYI
SZENT-BENEDEKI (1601). Unfortunately, the primary sources aren't
provided.

Forgive me for posting a recipe without the primary source; I don't
have it. I'm willing to trust Lang's experience and background. He's a
professional restaurateur, and was born in Hungary. If you're
interested in the history of Hungarian food, you must read this book,
which is full of historical information -- Lang spends 150 pages on the
culinary history of Hungary and on profiles of the gastronomic regions
of the country!

I'll be a while tracking down the medieval manuscripts and books listed
in the bibliography; I'm looking for enough recipes to hold a period
Hungarian feast, complete with documentation for each dish.

Here's the recipe:

ROSE DOUGHNUT

"Make a batter of egg, flour and as much whey as necessary for right
consistency. Take a fully developed white or red rose with some of the
stem; wash it, and put it into a clean bowl to drain. (Make sure that
there are no bugs inside flower.) Dip it into the light batter, and
stand it up in plenty of hot butter to fry. Shake it every now and then
to make sure its petals will stand apart as they did on the rosebush.
If you add some rosewater to the batter, so much the better. Flavor
with cane honey."

Lang asks whether this recipe was a "poetic variation of the
zucchini-flower fritter they must have learned from the Italians some
generations ago."

If you quote the recipe, note that accents aigus should be used over
the two E's in "Szechenyi" and over the A in "Mihalyi."

Best of luck with the feast!
	  ,   ,  ,
Dave Szent-Gyorgyi/Kolozsvari Arpad, to his SCA friends
---                                                            ,   ,  ,
Dave Szent-Gyorgyi                                         Kolozsvari Arpad
davesg at netaxs.com     border of Bhakail & Hartshorn-dale, East Kingdom, SCA
"We HAVE to teach the net               On a field Sable, a trident between
 to handle diacriticals!"                     two hippocampi respectant Or.


From: greg at bronze.lcs.mit.edu (Greg Rose)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Pre-1600 flower dishes
Date: 12 Mar 1994 11:58:10 -0500
Organization: MIT LCS guest machine

Greetings, all, from Angharad ver' Rhuawn.  Again, I'm posting from Hossein's
account (mine being uncommunicative), but speaking only for myself.

Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glavryn responded to Michael McKay:

>>	A friend of mine is planning on hosting a feast in July called
>>the "Feast of Flowers" and she wants me to cater it with pre-1600
>>dishes that employ flowers. Can any of you give me some recipes or sources?
>>Thank you.
>
>Look for a recipie called "Sambocade". In its original form (many later
>corrupted versions appear) it was a fritter of elder flowers. 

The scholarship I have seen agrees as to the origin, but no actual recipe
I have seen calls for elder flowers.  I'm not sure that such a recipe is
known, at least in English.  (Elder flowers are pretty much unique to
Anglo-Norman cuisine, at least partly because of where they grow.)

Before plunging into a list of recipes, a couple of words of caution.

I see essentially three difficulties with preparing period dishes of which
flowers are a major ingredient.  First, some of these are simply not available, 
at least in places I have lived.  After roses, the most common flowers in 
early English cuisine are hawthorne blossoms and elder blossoms.  Right.  Not
available at any price, at any time of year, in the quantities one would need
for even quite a small feast.

Second, many of these, while available, are most readily available in 
radically different forms.  "Rose" does _not_ mean "American Beauty": what we 
have around now are mostly hybrid tea roses.  It is possible to get eglantine, 
for instance, but it is not easy.  I have no idea what sort of violet was 
native to England, but I'm fair to middling sure it wasn't African violets, 
and I wouldn't want to bet it's the kind that show up wild in my yard in 
Virginia.  My point is not so much one of authenticity as that different
members of the a botanical family may differ wildly both in flavor and
in edibility.  (Nightshade and tomatoes are related.  The "berries" of the
latter are fine to eat....)

Third, unless you are growing the flowers yourself, you want to be _very_
careful about what comes with them.  Flowers that are grown commercially
for sale as pretty blossoms have frequently been treated with lots of 
chemicals that it is decidedly unwise to eat.

With those provisos:

Recipes calling for flowers are reasonably common in Anglo-Norman cuisine.
Recipes for rosee, spinee, and suade, which are sort of porridges of almond 
milk with roses, hawthorn blossoms, or elder flowers respectively, occur in 
the 13th C Anglo-Norman collection edited by Constance Hieatt in _Speculum_
(1986) and in all four of the complete MSs from the 14th C included in 
_Curye on Inglysch_ (including Forme of Curye), sometimes twice in a single
collection (_Diuersa Cibaria_ has two of each).  The recipe that Lady Tangwystl
included is a 15th C version of one of these dishes, which apparently were
both popular and persistent in the cuisine.  They occur early in collections,
indicating that they tended to be served in the first course, and were viewed
as hearty staples rather than delicacies (!).

In addition, Utilis Coquinaria has recipes for primerole, pyany, heppee and 
vyolet, which call for primroses, peony blossoms and seeds, roses and rose 
hips, and violets respectively.  Diuersa Servicia has a fritters recipe that 
calls for apple blossoms.

All of these are available in _Curye on Ignlysch_, Constance B. Hieatt and
Sharon Butler, editors, Oxford University Press (1985) ISBN 0-19-722409-1.

If one is willing to go very slightly out of period (1609, if I recall the
date correctly), there are several recipes for preserving and candying flower
blossoms in Hugh Platt's _Delights for Ladies_.  I got my copy of Hugh Platt
from Cariadoc, in the first volume of his collection of medieval cookbooks.

Good luck.

-- Angharad/Terry



From: hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Pre-1600 flower dishes
Date: 13 Mar 1994 17:34:08 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley

>Greetings, all, from Angharad ver' Rhuawn.  Again, I'm posting from Hossein's
>account (mine being uncommunicative), but speaking only for myself.
>>
>at least in places I have lived.  After roses, the most common flowers in 
>early English cuisine are hawthorne blossoms and elder blossoms.  Right.  Not
>available at any price, at any time of year, in the quantities one would need
>for even quite a small feast.
>
>-- Angharad/Terry

I beg to differ. In central California, the red elder is practically a weed,
growing profusely along roadsides (BAD collection site, due to car exhaust
contamination) and in other uncultivated areas. In fact, they should be
blooming about this time of year ... This is the same species as grows in
Europe (according to my herbal) but should be differentiated from the
dwarf elder (common in the eastern US). 

If you found someone helpful in the Golden Rivers (Sacramento) area, you
might be able to get an express shipment of elder flowers that you fit your
needs.

Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn  


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: marian at world.std.com (marian walke)
Subject: Re: Pre-1600 flower dishes - sources for flowers
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 1994 12:41:57 GMT

Have you tried your local health food/organic food stores?

Some of them sell dried flower parts (rose petals, rose hips, elder 
flowers, dried violets, etc) for making herbal teas.  Also available in 
bulk from herb companies that do mail order - Frontier, Penn Herb, etc.

While rather expensive (compared with roadside gathering the stuff), you 
have a good chance the items were meant for human consumption.

--Marian of Edwinstowe, Carolingia, EK
  marian at world.std.com 


From: L Herr-Gelatt and J R Gelatt <liontamr at postoffice.ptd.net>
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 09:39:55 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: SC - Edible Flowers

Hello all.

Today's thunderstorms are making me stay inside rather than be outside
planting my herb beds. Ras, I found and identified several red thrips
yesterday! I also found a bright green beetle, and they were all in the same
bed as an orange  salamander, so I guess they weren't long for this world!
Anyway, as I was planting, I realized that I have very little knowledge of
edible flowers. I've been wondering if someone could post a short list. 

These are the ones I know of, and I realize that they must be completely
organicaly (?) grown to be truely edible:

Rose
Pink
Marigold
Nasturtium
Dandelion
Violet
strawberry
The flowers of edible herbs

What else can I add to the list?

Aoife, dying for an excuse to buy more plants 


From: PETERSR at spiegel.becltd.com (Peters, Rise J.)
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 12:12:28 -0500
Subject: RE: SC - Edible Flowers

>>Carnations, but not if they're dyed.  But they don't have much taste (kind 
of like lettuce).


From: "Sue Wensel" <swensel at brandegee.lm.com>
Date: 19 May 1997 11:23:00 -0500
Subject: Re: SC - Edible Flowers

> These are the ones I know of, and I realize that they must be completely
> organicaly (?) grown to be truely edible:
> 
> Rose
> Pink
> Marigold
> Nasturtium
> Dandelion
> Violet

Only the blue/purple violet flowers are safe to eat.  Don't eat white or pink
violets.

> strawberry
> The flowers of edible herbs

Be wary of the last.  Not all parts of any plant are safe for consumption; for
example, the root of the potato plant is edible but the remainder of it is
not.  I believe the fruit of the tomato is safe, but the remainder of the
plant is not (I could be misremembering).  

> What else can I add to the list?
 
Prim rose was eaten in period. 
 
> Aoife, dying for an excuse to buy more plants 

Derdriu
(who has this silly idea that all gardeners and period cooks would benefit
from having several herbals just lying around)


From: Uduido at aol.com
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 20:53:26 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: SC - Edible Flowers

In a message dated 97-05-19 10:53:07 EDT, you write:

<< What else can I add to the list? >>

Lilacs
Gladioli
Mums (not period)
Chive bloosoms
Onion Blossoms
Pea Blossoms(One of my favorites)
Squash bloosoms (not period except those of the Luffa gourd)
Sweet woodruff blossoms
Iris, German
Calendula (pot marigold)

Lord Ras


From: Philip E Cutone <flip+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 13:20:52 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: SC - Re: Sugar v Honey

a related topic currently happening here can be found at:
http://www.watervalley.net/users/jtn/Articles/flowers.html
which is cooking with flowers... :)

In Service to the People of the Society,
Filip of the Marche


From: Baaastard at aol.com
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 11:34:20 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: SC - Edible Flowers

Pansys can be added to the list of edible flowers, but I don't know if they
were used in period.

Later,
Michael Farrell


From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 09:52:39 -0400
Subject: Re: SC - Hello--this is the requested intro by a newcomer.

Welcome, Joan!

GARNER at admin.hnc.edu wrote:
> I have a (hopefully) simple question: are sugared flowers suitable for
> ornamenting late medieval French food?  I'm not a raging purist by any
> means, but if they are strictly a Victorian conceit, then even I would
> have to draw the line!
> 
> Joan Garner

Nyah! Ah! Ah! (Or other designated evil chuckle...) We always hope our
questions are simple!

Actually, the simple answer is: I dunno. 

The complex answer is that recipes for various candied flowers are found
in some late-period English sources. The one that comes to mind first is
Elinor Fettiplace's Receipt Book, which, as we all know, Emerged Fully
Grown From The Forehead of Zeus in 1604 ;  ), and most of the recipes
therein are from some unspecified prior date. I wouldn't be at all
surprised to find that candied flowers are a descendant of the various
confited (in this case sugared) spices, although the method for
producing them is slightly different. I do know that spice confits show
up frequently in medieval recipes as a garnish for various foods, but
I'm aware of no direct evidence that this was ever done with candied
flowers.

On the other hand, if they weren't used in that way, what DID they do
with them?

So, the extreme likelihood, based on what we really know, is that
candied flowers did exist in what the SCA regards as late period
England, and might well have been found in France too. They might have
been used as a garnish for food, and they might not.

I hope this helps.

G. Tacitus Adamantius


From: Alys of Foxdale <foxdale at wolfstar.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 21:36:47 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: SC - Rosehip recipe

> I was out dead-heading my White Rose of York climber and there were
> already some rosehips forming. I remembered that my brother used to make
> a rosehip jelly, but I can't find any recipes (period or modern) for it.
> Any one know if this is period? Have a recipe?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Julleran

Ok, I've been swamped for a couple of days, and I don't know if anyone
has posted anything yet, so I apologize in advance if this is a repeat
of anything.

All of these are from "Rose Recipes from Olden Times" by Eleanour
Sinclair Rohde, Dover edition ["Unabridged, unaltered republication
of original (1939) edition.]. Some of her recipes have attributions
attached, others not.  I have made sure I have reproduced the recipes
as exactly as I can, given the limitations of straight ASCII text
(i.e., those are not typos down there in the Russian recipe).

   Alys of Foxdale          Shire of Stierbach, Kingdom of Atlantia
 mka Sallie Montuori               Chantilly, Virginia, USA
foxdale at wolfstar.com


ROSE HIP MARMALADE
Ingredients:  Wild rose hips, Sugar.
Method.  To every pound of Rose hips allow half a pint of water.  Boil
till the fruit is tender.  Pass the pulp through a sieve fine enough
to keep back the seeds.  To each pound of pulp allow a pound of
preserving sugar.  Boil till it jellies.


TO MAKE A CONSERVE OF ROSE HIPS
Gather the hips before they grow soft, cut off the heads and stalks,
slit them in halves, and take out all the seeds and white that is in 
them very clean; then put in an earthen pan, and stir them every day
else they will grow mouldy; let them stand till they are soft enough 
to rub through a coarse hair sieve; as the pulp comes take it off the
seive; they are a dry berry; will require pains to rub it through;
then add its weight in sugar, and mix it well together without
boiling; keeping it in deep gallipots for use. -- E. Smith.  The
Complete Housewife 1736.


TO MAKE A TART OF HIPS
Take hips, cut them and take out the seeds very clean, then wash them
and season them with sugar, cinnamon and ginger, close the tart, bake
it scrape on sugar and serve it in. -- The Art and Mystery of Cookery
Approved by the Fifty-five Years Experience and Industry of Robert May
1671.


MARMALADE FROM ROSE HIPS
To every pound of hips allow half a pint of water; boil till the fruit
is tender, then pass the pulp through a sieve which will keep back the
seeds.  To each pound of pulp add one pound of preserving sugar and
boil until it jellies. -- E. G. Hayden.  Travels Round Our Village.


JAM MADE WITH THE BERRIES OF WILD DOG ROSES
Choose ripe large sound berries from a dog rose bush (Eglantine).
They should be hard.  Scrape each berry and cut off tip through
opening remove pulp with the aid of a bodkin or tiny spoon, being
careful not to break berry.  Tie a piece of linen round the bodkin or
little spoon and wipe the inside to remove any pulp that may remain.
There are fine hairs which must be removed.  Drop berries into cold
water and rinse several times shaking about to make sure that all
little hairs are gone.  Put into a saucepan, pour over boiling water,
put on fire and as soon as the water boils again pour berries out on a
sieve and pour cold water over them,  Then put a clean cloth over the
sieve and put each berry standing with the little hole underneath to
drain well.
  Prepare syrup.  For every pound of berries use 3 lb. sugar and 23/4
2 and 3/4 cups water.  Let it boil twice then put in berries and cook
till tender.  Remove scum which forms on jam.  When tender pour into
china bowl, tie a cloth over and let stand for several days.  Every
now and then move the bowl about, so that the berries are well filled
with the syrup.  Pour into jars and close with air-tight stoppers or
parchment paper.  Keep in a dry place. -- The Russian Cook Book.
Compiled and translated by Princess Alexandre Gazarene 1924.


From: DdreMacNam at aol.com
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 12:07:18 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: SC - Edible Flowers

Good Gentles ,
Here's one more for the list of edible flowers ,
Carnations, they have a peppery flavor,according to my father that is I've
never tried them myself.

Deirdre


From: Mark Schuldenfrei <schuldy at abel.MATH.HARVARD.EDU>
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 12:32:00 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: SC - Edible Flowers

  Here's one more for the list of edible flowers ,
  Carnations, they have a peppery flavor,according to my father that is I've
  never tried them myself.

Unbelievably mild.  In combination with even the dullest blanc mange, the
flavor of the carnation would be lost.

	Tibor (Herbivore)


From: "Marisa Herzog" <marisa_herzog at macmail.ucsc.edu>
Date: 20 Jun 1997 09:30:37 -0700
Subject: Re: SC - Edible Flowers

>>Here's one more for the list of edible flowers ,
>>Carnations, they have a peppery flavor,according to my father >>that is I've
never tried them myself.

Carnations are related to pinks/dianthus and sweet-williams, which were
refered to as "gilly flowers" in the middle ages.  They are edible and show up
in period recipes, especially sweets.  According to recipes and herb books
they are supposed to have a slight clove flavor.  They are pictured in many
borders of illuminations.  Note for using flowers (if people don't already
know) pinch off the white part at the base of petals, as this is bitter and a
little nasty tasting.


From: Uduido at aol.com
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 09:03:57 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: SC - Nasturtiums

In a message dated 97-06-20 21:12:39 EDT, you write:
<< Now, for a peppery flower, go for a nasturtium!  >>

These would be good, however, I would point out that nasturtiums are new
world. An exciting peppery flavor can be obtained from radish blossoms also.

Lord Ras


From: nweders at mail.utexas.edu (ND Wederstrandt)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 16:30:45 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: SC - peony

According to the Texas A & M University page on edible flowers... peonies
are edible.
If you are interested I can give you the page since they specialize in
developing new strains of various things.  They are the ones who developed
the mild jalapeno strain.  A very strange bird (mild hot pepper)... Anyway
they posted a whole list of edible flowers including peonies.

Clare St. John


From: Aldyth at aol.com
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 18:06:18 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: SC - edible flowers and pickles

I just came across two recipes in my wanderings.  _A New Booke of Cookerie_
by John Murrell 1615.  Falconwood press.  No redactions yet, but see if they
help.

A Sallet of Rose-Buds, and clove Gilly-flowers

PIcke Rosebuds, and put them into an earthen Pipkin, with white Wine-vinegar
and Sugar: so you may use Cowslippes, Violets, or Rosemary flowers.


To keep greene Cucembers all the yeere

Cut sixe Cucumbers in pieces, boile them in Spring-water, Sugar and Oyll, a
walme or two.  Take them up and let your picke stand until it be cold.

To keepe Brome Capers

Boyle the greates and hardest buds of Brome, in Wine-vinegar, and Bay Salt;
scum it cleane: when it is colde you may put in Raw ones also, each by
themselves: put in a piece of Lead on the raw ones: for all that swim will be
blacke, and the other that are pressed downe as greene as any Leeke.  The
boyld ones will change colour.

Aldyth


Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 09:25:08 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Gillyflowers

Just a further blab or two on this subject: Hieatt and Butler seem to
feel that the reference to "clowes gilfre" in Utilis Coquinario are to
the spice, cloves, or to use the more precise German term, Speissnageln
(Spice Nails). With one exception that I've been able to find, the
recipes in the source manuscript for Utilis Coquinario specify, in
recipes calling for flowers, that the ingredient is "flowers of_____".
This is true of hawthorne, appletree, primroses, violets, and bean
plants. As I say, the one exception appears to be roses, in a recipe
simply calling for roses.

Adamantius


Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 03:01:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: Varju at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Flower fritters

If any one has and interest, I have a recipe translation from a slightly out
of period Hungarian cookbook for a dish called "Rose Doughnuts" (battered and
deep fried roses).  I had meant to post earlier, but I was also hoping to
find the cookbook sooner as well.  Once I find the cookbook I'll post the
recipe.

Noemi


Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 20:08:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: Varju at aol.com
Subject: SC - Rose Doughnut recipe

Here it is, as promised.  This translation comes from _The Cuisine of
Hungary_ by George Lang.   The recipe is originaly from _The Book of Mihaly
Szent-Benedeki_  published August 10, 1601.


Rose Doughnut

Make a batter of  egg, flour and as much whey as necessary for right
consitancy.  Take a fully developed white or red rose with some of  stem:
wash it, and put it into a clean bowl to drain.  Dip it into the light
batter, and stand it up in plenty of hot butter to fry.  Shake it every now
and then to make sure its petals will stand apart as they did on the
rosebush.  If you add some rosewater, so much the better.  Flavor with cane
honey.

I take no responsibility for the translation, since I didn't do it.  This
does sound interesting though, doesn't it?

Noemi


Date: 2 Oct 1997 14:51:29 -0500
From: "Sue Wensel" <swensel at brandegee.lm.com>
Subject: SC - Re: sca-cooks V1 #324

Aoife  writes:
><< 
> I have a large number of wild rose hips growing, and I'd like to harvest
> them and do something.I've been bitten by that "preserve for the winter"
> bug. Someone once lent me a source that had "A Tarte of Hyppes" in it, but I
> can't track it down now. Do any of you have any other ideas?>>>>

Diana replies:
>      Hummmm, the one time I tried this with the wild roses growing on the
>edge my parents land, I didn't have much luck. They had tiny hips, that were
>mostly seed. They never softened a great deal despite long boiling and
>certainly never gave up enough flesh to do anything with. The best that those
>would be useful for would be tea, or making jelly from the juice.

Instead of boiling the hips, try decocting (simmering) a teaspoon of hips in a
cup of water for 15-20 minutes. *Don't let it boil* (this seems to nasty
things when you are trying to rehydrate anything).  It does wonders with dried
rosehips.  Macerate them in a mortar and pestle.

All this was done in preparation for making rose-hip butter, which was a
greater success than even the honey butter!  I macerated the rose hips, then
added them and a drop or two of honey (and a couple drops of the juice) to the
butter.  And I was left with a wonderful tea to drink afterward.

I wonder what this would taste like with a little vinegar and oil and put over
a salad??  Maybe done as muffins -- use the rose hip tea in lieu of the water?
 Rose bread??

Derdriu


Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 20:17:15 -0400
From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow)
Subject: Re: SC - Rose Hips

Hello!  The reference you asked about is "Rose Recipes from Olden Times" by
E. S. Rohde, rpt. Dover Publ., Inc, New York, 1973.  I'm pretty sure it's
still in print.  The tart of rose hips is on p. 75:

"To Make a Tart of Hips
Take hips, cut them and take out the seeds very clean, then wash them and
season them with sugar, cinnamon and ginger, close the tart, bake it scrape
on sugar and serve it in.  From The Art and Mystery of Cookery Approved by
the Fifty-five Years Experience and Industry of Robert May 1671."

Other recipes include Marmalade, Jam, conserve of rose hips, and sauce
eglantine.  Most of the other recipes are for petals, not hips.

Hope this helps!

Cindy/Sincgiefu
renfrow at skylands.net


Date: Sun, 5 Oct 1997 03:29:06 +0200 (METDST)
From: Par Leijonhufvud <parlei at ki.se>
Subject: SC - Rose hip soup

Found a recipie in an old cookbook. Not period, but still usefull.

- --------------------------
Rose Hip Soup (6 servings)
(From: "Hemmets kokbok, 31st ed", Norstedt & Soner Forlag, Stockholm 103, 
1930)

5-6 dL rosehips, deseeded
2.5-3 L water
1.5-2 dl sugar
1 1/2 T potato starch
(25 g almonds (scalded and slivered))

1. Put the rosehips in cold water and bring to a boil. Let boil until 
soft. Whisk forcefully now and then.

2. Pass through a coleander, and add sugar.

3. Thicken with the potatoe starch dissolved in some water and brought to 
a boil.

4. Adjudst sweetness to taste, and serve, either as is or with slivered 
almonds.
- --------------------------

Please note my discussion earlier regarding the vitamin C and boiling. 
Personally I would use a mixer to puree, rather than passing through the 
coleander.

For the metrically impared:

1 dL= 0.1 Litre = 3.5 fl oz (US)
1 litre = 34 fl oz (US)
25 g = 25 grams = 0.9 oz

/UlfR
- --
Par Leijonhufvud                  par.leijonhufvud at labtek.ki.se 


Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 11:07:42 -0500
From: gfrose at cotton.vislab.olemiss.edu (Terry Nutter)
Subject: Re:  SC - Rose Hips

Hi, Katerine here.  Aiofe asks about things to do with rose hips.  There's
a recipe for Heppee, a rose hip pottage, in one of the 14th C MSs in
Cury on Inglysch.  

- -- Katerine/Terry


Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 22:10:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Aine <aine at shocking.com>
Subject: Re: SC - rose hips vs. rose petals

> Are rose hips different from rose petals? Are they the same thing
> but different names for different stages of the flower?
> 
>   Stefan li Rous

YES there is a difference!!!!
Rose petals of course are rose petals, the rose hips on the other hand are
the swollen parts of the rose, right after the stem and before the "flower"
part. On blooming roses they're normally green, however, once the flower
part has died, (ON the bush) the hip is left and ripens to a reddish-orange
color. 

  Aine (the one in the West)


Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 01:44:59 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - rose hips vs. rose petals

> Are rose hips different from rose petals? Are they the same thing
> but different names for different stages of the flower?
> 
>   Stefan li Rous

Rose hips are the fruit of the rose plant. If you watch an apple tree
bloom, and watch the blooms wither away and then all you have left is
the stump of the bloom, which then grows into an apple. In the same way,
rose hips are the sour fruit of the rose, which, by the way, are closely
related to apples, hence the imagery.

Adamantius


Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 23:47:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: Varju at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Classes: More Last Minute Tips Requests

<<I found a Rose Doughnut recipe that I am incorporating--I think Noemi 
posted it originally.  Can I get biblio information on the book of 
origin?>>

The original source is: _The Book of Mihaly Szent-Benedeki_, August 10, 1601

I found the translation in: _The Cuisine of Hungary_, George Lang,  pub. in
1990 by Bonanza Books, dist by Crown Publishers, Inc. New York, copyright
1971 by George Lang,  recipe is on page 26.

Noemi


Date: Fri, 07 Nov 1997 15:06:05 -0900
From: Steve & Kerri Geppert <emster at alaska.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Cornflowers

Meliora & Drake wrote:
> All of my cornflowers are currently out in bloom.  I remember reading (in
> Fettiplace I think) a recipe for pickling or preserving the flowers for use
> in salads in the winter.  However, in re-reading Fettiplace I cannot find
> the reference.  I found a recipe for preserving Clove Gilliflowers (Pinks)
> for the same purpose, but not the cornflowers.
> 
> Can anyone help with references to using cornflowers in/as food ??  My main
> interest is early Renaissance but any time in "SCA period" would do.
> 
> Meliora
> meliora at macquarie.matra.com.au

My Martha Washington's Booke of Cookery and Booke of Sweetmeats has
three or four recipes for pickling and preserving flowers.  The names of
the flowers given are:  "cloue gillyflowers, cowslips burrage &
marrigoulds."  There is also a recipe called "Another way for keeping of
flowers which is accounted better then ye first" which doesn't specify
any particular type of flowers. Don't know if these are what you may be
looking for.  The recipes in this book aren't redacted, just the recipe
with comments by the transciptionis, Karen Hess.  If you would like them
let me know and I'll forward them to you.
Lady Clare
Canton Inbhir na da Abhann 


Date: Sat, 08 Nov 1997 12:25:11 -0900
From: Steve & Kerri Geppert <emster at alaska.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Cornflowers

Meliora & Drake wrote:
> I don't have a copy of Hess yet, so if you could post these recipes I would
> be exceedingly grateful.  However, they do not specifically mention
> cornflowers.  I must be going mad, I am sure I read them specifically
> mentioned somewhere !!
> 
> Lady Meliora.

To Pickle Cloue Gillyflowrs Cowslips Burrage & Marrigoulds
Clip your flowers clean from ye whites & cover them over in white wine
vinegar, sweetned with sugar, & shake ye glasses you put them in often,
& when you discover your pickle to shrink, add more to it.

Hess notes that these flowers brought a sour-sweet fillip (?) to the
winter table when pickled.

Anoter Way For Keeping of Flowers Which Is Accounted Better Then ye
First
Take yr flowers & shread them a little, then take about halfe a pound of
lofe sugar, & beat it small & put it in a pewter dish with a little
water. boyle it up to a candy height, then put in yr flowers, giveing of
them a stir together. when they are cold, put your flowers into papers
made into bagtgs, & hang them neer ye fire. when you use them, put to ym
a little vinnegar, & soe serve them up.

Hess counsels that not all pewter is able to withstand direct heat so
don't be tempted.  

Both these are from the Booke of Cookery, page 171, recipes 166 & 167.

The Booke of Sweetmeats has a description of candy height:

To Know When Your Sugar is at Candy Height
When yr sugar is at a candy height, which is the second height it comes
to, it will draw between your fingers in great flakes like bird lime,
and then it is at a just height eyther to candy or for any other things.

Hess comments that bird lime is a viscous sticky substance prepared from
the bark of holly and used to catch small birds.  In Old English, she
further states, it meant any adhesive, but now it is only poetic (OED). 
She also comments that the temperature of this syrup is 220 degrees F.

Recipe from Booke of Sweetmeats, page 227, recipe 5.

Hope this helps.  Good luck.  Let me know how this turns out.  Our
flowers are long gone and currently sleeping under a blanket of snow. 
I'm envious that you have a splash of color in November.

Lady Clare


Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:44:31 -0600 (CST)
From: jeffrey s heilveil <heilveil at students.uiuc.edu>
Subject: SC - an offering...

Good day.  I have recently fell upon a recipie from my cousin in Denmark,
and whilst I cannot vouche for any periodicity of the item, she said it
was a marmelade well worth the trouble.  Having seen some non-periods
floating along, I thought this might be acceptable...

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Of course we have a recipe!  For every 750 g cleaned rose hips, you use 500
g sugar and 1/2 water and one teaspoonful of thickening agent.  You boil
the rose hips and the water for 20 minutes covered.  Then you add most of
the sugar (say 450 g of it) , stir to dissolve, and boil an additional 10
minutes or until the hips are tender.  Finally, you add the thickener (over
here it is called Melatine,
<<use a canning gelatin>>
 mixed in with the remaining sugar.  Pour into jars
and the rest is obvious!!!  Good luck with it.  Be careful of the thorns
when picking the hips, and be sure to wear rubber gloves when you clean
them as those fibers are itchy!  We generally just cut the hips in half and
then remove all the seeds.  It is quite a bit of work!  In all, we had 3.2
kg of cleaned hips, which made about 7 liters of marmelade in all!!!!  I
brought a jar with to work today to eat with the traditional Friday morning
bread, and it disappeared very quickly!  So that is encouraging.


Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 16:16:58 -0800
From: "James L. Matterer" <jlmatterer at labyrinth.net>
Subject: SC - Fritelles

177. (Clary Fritters): Take the herb called clary and grind it, steep it
in pure water and beat well sieved flour into this; add in some honey
and a little white wine and beat these together until smooth; then fry
small spoonfuls of this mixture in oil, as is done for fritters, and put
rosemary generously on each fritter; squeeze your fritters between two
blades to drain off the oil, then put them in a fine new pot beside the
fire. Dress them on a plate with sugar. (Le Viandier de Taillevent,
Terence Scully's edition, p. 297)

Scully says Clary is Clary Sage (Salvia sclarea) which "has tall
flowering spikes and a taste reminiscent of grapefruit." He also goes on
to say that the Liber de coquina has another version of the recipe that
"offers a broad choice in the matter of flavoring by specifying
elderflowers or any other flower."

I would prefer to use actual Clary in this recipe: does anyone know of
availability or a viable substitute?

Yours,
Huen/Jim Matterer
http://www.labs.net/dmccormick/huen.htm


Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 09:12:19 -0800
From: "Crystal A. Isaac" <crystal at pdr-is.com>
Subject: Re: SC - viola, pansies, etc.

An interesting (but very modern) book is Cathy Wilkinson Barash's
_Edible Flowers from Garden to Palate_. Published by Fulcrum Publishing.
Golden, CO. 1995 ISBN 1-55591-246-1. Lots of pictures.

Do any of the modern herb books include flowers?

Crystal


Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 09:20:57 +1000
From: Robyn Probert <robyn.probert at lawpoint.com.au>
Subject: Re: SC - Food Question: Squashes and Gourds

Zucchini flower recipies as promised...
I think it is likely that these were a delicacy in our period too, but I
haven't found any period sources for these, nor (so far) any italian food
paintings showing the flowers. If anyone has any info, please let me know!

On the the food. First, you should understand that zucchini actually have
both male and female flowers. The male ones grow on tall thin stalks and are
more open.  The female ones grow on short fat stalks. Once they are
fertilised, the base of the flower swells, elongates and turns into... a
zucchini.

You can use the male &/or female flowers to stuff. To use the female ones,
you have to sacrifice your zucchini at baby stage, before the flower withers
and drops off. The baby zucchini look and taste nice anyway.

Try and stuff the flowers soon after you have picked them, because the
flowers close, making the process harder. If this isn't possible, store them
wrapped in damp paper towels in a plastic bag in the fridge.

To prepare, remove the cntre stamen, remove any insects :) rinse if
necessary and dry.

Stuffing 1 (for 12 flowers) Mix together:
1.5 cups ricotta
1 bunch chives, chopped
1 egg, beaten
4 Tbsp parmesan
Salt, pepper, nutmeg

Stuffing 2 (12 flowers):
60g mozzarella, diced
2 slices procuitto, diced

Stuffing 3 (12 flowers):
60g mozzarella, diced (or a mix of ricotta and mozzarella)
6 anchovy fillets, mashed

Use a teaspoon or piping bag to fill the flowers. You can just twist them
closed or tie them closed using a blanched (dipped in boiling water) chives
or strips of leek, or even kitchen string if desperate. Dip in batter (beer
batter, cornflour batter, etc*) and fry in olive oil. Drain, sprinkle with a
little salt and serve hot.

*A basic batter
2 eggs, separated. Beat the whites until rocky, mix the yolks with...
1/2 cup flour, and
4 tbsp cold water, then fold in the egg whites.

Hope you like them!

Rowan


Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 21:58:24 EDT
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: SC - Squash flowers as period food

robyn.probert at lawpoint.com.au writes:
<<  think it is likely that these were a delicacy in our period too, but I
 haven't found any period sources for these, nor (so far) any italian food
 paintings showing the flowers. If anyone has any info, please let me know! >>

I hate to be the bearer of bad news here but the flowers of white flowered
guords luffas, Italian Edible, Gooseneck, Bird's Nest) are no more than 1 inch
across unlike the flowers of New World squashes which can attain rather large
demensions. They would be next to impossible to stuff with anything. The
suggestion for substituting Zucchini for the actual guords indicated was
merely an attempt to offer a substitution that had a taste, texture and
appearance similar to the real thing. My apologies if that suggestionsd has
caused any confusion.

Ras


Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 13:10:18 +1000
From: "HICKS, MELISSA" <HICKS_M at casa.gov.au>
Subject: RE: SC - Rose-Hips

> From:         Ray Nevin[SMTP:nevray at netspace.net.au]
> Does anybody have any recipes using rosehips - period or otherwise?
> There is too many to waste
>
> Sharon

There are plenty of recipes using Rose Hips in Elinor Fettiplace
(Renaissance cooking I know).  Also Martha Washington's too I believe.  If
you cannot get hold of these two, give me a call and I'll bring them with me
next time I visit your group.

Mel.


Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 09:17:11 -0600 (MDT)
From: Ann Sasahara <ariann at nmia.com>
Subject: SC - 3 Rose-Hip Recipes

I have found the following book useful:

Rhode, Eleanour Sinclair, Rose Recipes form Olden Times, Dover, 1973, 95p.
ISBN: 0-486-22957-2
_______________________________
Sauce Eglantine for mutton from Balmoral Castle (may be OOP)

Briar rose hips
sugar
lemon juice

Remove all seeds from the hips and then make a puree of them with as
little water as possible.  Sweeten to taste and add a little lemon juice.
____________________________
Rose Hip Marmalade

wild rose hips
sugar

To every pound of rose hips allow half a pint of water.  Boil till the
fruit is tender.  Pass through a sieve fine enough to hold back the seeds.
To each pound of pulp allow a pound of sugar.  Boil till it jellies.

____________________________
To Make a Tart of Rose Hips (Robert May, 1671)

Take hips, cut them and take out the seeds very clean, then wash them and
season them with sugar, cinnamon and ginger, close the tart and bake it
scrape on suger and serve it in.


Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 20:01:13 -0400
From: Susan Wensel <sewensel at bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Rose-Hips

I have developed a rather lovely butter using rosehips and honey for flavor.
Unfortunately, my school of recipies uses rather subjective terminology, so you
may have to experiment a little to get it to work out.

Bring several tablespoons of rosehips to a boil in about a cup to a cup and a
half of water.  Simmer until the rosehips soften.  Strain, reserving the water.
Using a hand potato masher (use a strong one), mash the rosehips.  Push the
mashed rosehips through a strainer to remove the seeds.

Take butter out of your fridge to soften.  When the rosehips are mashed and
cooled, and the butter soft enough to work with, blend 1/2 to 1 teaspoon of
rosehips to a stick of butter.  Add a little honey to sweeten and make the
butter a little more pliable.

Be careful not to use too much rosehip or the butter may separate.  You can
beat it back together, but that's a serious pain in the neck.

Richenda


Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 12:32:49 EDT
From: Seton1355 at aol.com
Subject: SC - REC; Rose Petal Preserve

I am passing along this recipe for rose petal preserves.  It comes from a
German woman on my Jewish list.  I haven't tried it but tuck it away til next
year's rose petal crop comes in,
Phillipa
<<
  -Unboiled rose preserves-

 2 lbs/1 kg sugar, 1/2 lb/250 g rose petals

 In a jar or clay pot, place one layer of sugar, one layer of rose
 petals and so on until the jar is full. Take care to have a layer of
 sugar on top. Place 2-3 rounds of white paper on top. Tie the jar with
 two layers of cellophane and some white paper and keep in a cool, dry
 and dark place. This makes delicious rose preserves.


Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 12:48:43 EDT
From: Seton1355 at aol.com
Subject: SC - ROSE PRESERVES

Here's another rose preserve recipe from my Jewish group.
Phillipa

<< **************
 Rose preserves
 (Dulceatza de trandafiri)

 2 lbs/1 kg sugar, 3/4 qt/3/4 l water, 1/2 lb/250 g rose petals with
 white parts removed, juice from 1 lemon

 Set the sugar and water to boil with the lemon juice until well
 thickened. During boiling, keep removing the foam until the syrup is
 clear. While the syrup is boiling, sprinkle some lemon juice onto the
 rose petals and rub with your hands. When the syrup is thickened, add
 the rose petals and simmer. Place into jars when cold.


Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 10:24:19 -0500
From: Wajdi <a14h at zebra.net>
Subject: SC - Advice on copyright, please

I recently obtained a copy of Rose Recipes from Olden Times, by
Eleanour Sinclair Rohde, published by Dover Publications, Inc of
New York.  This is "an unabridged and unaltered republication of
the work first published by Routledge in 1939 under the title
Rose Recipes."  It appears to be a collection of recipes using
roses from various older sources, including Delights for Ladies,
Sir Hugh Platt, 1594; Askham's Herbal, 1550; The Treasurie of
Hidden Secrets & Commodious Conceits, John Partridge, 1586; and
The Good Housewife's Handmaid, 1585.  I can find no copyright
listed at all anywhere in the book.  Its a paperback, of 95
pages, and interests me greatly.  So, my question is; is this
material considered public information and can I post recipes to
the list without worries?  Or do I have to keep it to myself?  I
really don't know about this copyright stuff.

wajdi


Subject: RE: Crystallized Rose Petals
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 17:44:52 -0700
From: Becky McEllistrem <beckymc at MICROSOFT.com>
To: "'atlantia at atlantia.sca.org'" <atlantia at atlantia.sca.org>

Actually this is easily resolved nowadays by calling your florists ahead of
time and explaining what you're doing.  A friend of mine called several in
our town and found two that sold organically grown, chemically free flowers.
I think decorating cakes with real flowers is getting to be a popular enough
idea that modern larger florists are beginning to take note.

Rebecca

-----Original Message-----
From: Joyce A. Baldwin [mailto:jocetta at pobox.com]
Sent: Monday, September 27, 1999 5:32 AM
To: The Merry Rose
Subject: Re: Crystallized Rose Petals

>>crystallized rose petals as a garnish.  Does anyone out there know how
>>this is done?
>Joyce A. Baldwin

A "just in case" warning -- do not use commercial roses!  They are sold for
decoration only and are rather heavily treated with various insecticides
and fungicides that are poisonous if eaten.  If you haven't grown them
yourself, make sure you know whether or not they have been treated with any
chemicals.  (This issue came up on the Eastrealm list a few years ago).

Jocetta

Lady Jocetta Thrushleigh of Rowansgarth
Exchequer, Canton of Buckston on Eno


Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 22:11:24 EST
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Rosee or Morree

lcm at efn.org writes:
<< The beautiful rose bush along the side of
 the house produced copious amounts of blooms- that were vile to taste! >>

What sort of vile? Bitter? You have to remove all of the white part of the 
petal before using to remove the bitterness. Rose petals without the white 
part really have little or no taste to them except, well, roses if they are 
species roses. Tea roses and hybrid roses also have little or no flavor if 
the bitter white part of the petals are removed. I use both copiously and 
often when they are blooming, both for salads and as a soup/stew ingredient.

Ras


Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 10:18:25 -0500
From: "Hupman, Laurie" <LHupman at kenyon.com>
Subject: RE: SC - Rosee or Morree

I gave my friend Wulfric a pair of rosebushes about two years ago -- a
damask and a moschata, both dating from the 1500's.  The moschata bloomed,
and produced the sweetest cream colored blossoms you could imagine.  He used
them to make rosee, and it came out as a most fragrant, cream-colored
pudding.  He had to pluck the flowers on the day they bloomed, or else they
would turn brown and wilt, but he was able to keep them fresh in a small
tupperware container in the refrigerator until he had enough to experiment
with.

Rose :)


Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 00:48:05 -0600
From: "RANDALL DIAMOND" <ringofkings at mindspring.com>
Subject: Daylilies (Was SC - Birthdays and Daffy Dills)

Marian Rosenberg asks:
>>>The yellow flower with the raised center bit thingy that also comes in
miniatures that you see in the grocery store is a daffodil.  However,
I've got the wrong name.  I'm thinking of the orange/yellow flower with
the streaks of color down the center of the petal, saffron colored
pollen.  Tastes like fresh lettuce.  Anyone have any clue what I'm
talking about?<<<

I can't imagine your mystery flower being anything but a member 
of the genus Hemerocallis, probably species fulva, variety 'Europa'.
This is the common wild or Tawny Daylily.  The other period variety
is Hemerocallis flava, the Lemon daylily (named for the colour, not the
taste incidently). These varieties are completely edible and most 
delish (as are ALL daylilies, but most are too beautiful to eat).  
They are even period, being introduced from the Russias to western 
Europe in the mid 16th century.  Also they were certainly a food 
source in the wild state in their native Trans-Caucus regions by farm 
dwellers (though not likely the nobility, such as there existed then after
Ghengis Khan and his boys trashed the place several times over).

These plants are a veritable grocery produce department by 
themselves.   The orientals prefer the fresh blossoms; likely
you encountered these in some oriental salad or cookery to be
asking.   The spent flowers (they DO only last a single day you
know) are also quite edible; even though closed and limp, they
impart a wonderful flavour to soups and make it slightly gelatinus
like okra.

Try this if you can get a quantity of withered blooms this spring
(the extra fancy blooms will be ok too):
Saute 1/2 pound fresh pork cut into bite size pieces, until nicely
browned.  Add 1 quart water, 2 tablespoons of soy sauce and 
1 teaspoon salt.  Cover and simmer slowly for an hour until the
pork is very tender.  Replenish water as it boils away to the original
level.  Add 1 tightly packed cup of withered (yesterday's) blossoms
and 1 teaspoon of monosodium glutamate.  Cook a few minutes
more until the blossoms are tender.  Serve with steamed rice and
green tea; the pork and blossoms with the rice.  Serve the liquid
as a soup with fresh petals for garnish.  Elegant!

This recipe comes from Euell Gibbons (the wild foods guru who
died of stomach cancer ironically enough).  I would very much
suggest that  cooks experienced in oriental cuisine can greatly
improve this recipe with there own versions.  MSG.  Uggh!
You can probably cut down the salt a lot too.  Gibbons was
not renowned as a great chef; he just ate a lot of unusual things.

The blossoms may be dried and stored for later use also if
you like them. The unopened buds are IMO the best phase of 
this vegetable. Boil them for about as long as you would some
large asparagus shoots, drain and saute lightly in butter; or just 
butter them drained directly  from the boiling water.  They are 
better than the finest french greenbeans.   Even more 
recommended (by Gibbons) are the young and crisp flower
stalks as they shoot up about a foot high or so.  They are
reputed to be better than asparagus and are prepared the 
same way.  I have never had the will to do this as it forfeits
a month of lovely flowers renewed every day from each stalk
sacrificed from the garden.  However, if I come across a
hidden wild patch sometimes, that is another matter.
Tawny daylilies are sterile triploids and reproduce by 
underground runners which may be dug and  prepared as if  
they were costly blanched white asparagus shoots.  The 
plant roots have many small tubers from 1/2" to 3/4" in diameter
which may be harvested in any season; washed, pared of 
small rootlets (but not peeled); then boiled in salt water for 
15 minutes.  Season as you would potatos or hominy.
The lemon daylily tubers are better than the tawny (I have
this on authority of my gophers who regard the Lemon root
system as the finest delicaces). In spring, daylily tubers are 
very crisp and snowy white and can be put in salads as a raw
 vegetablelike water chestnuts.  Don't feel like a vandal in the 
garden when eating them though; enough will be left in the 
ground to actually increase the number of plants you will have
 next season. The older plants benefit from a good thinning 
and bloom all the more heavily for it too.  A last suggestion 
I offer is to dip the fresh blossoms in a rich egg batter and 
serve them piping hot as flower fritters.  A splash of good
Vermont maple syrup and you have a fine breakfast sweet dish.

Anyone have any Asian or eastern European documentation
on period comsumption of daylilies?  They were first listed in
Lobel and Pena (HISTORIA) in 1570 under the name Asphodelus
luteus liliflorus (Lemon daylily) and by Lobel in 1576 as 
Liriosphodelus phoeniceus (Tawny daylily).

Akim Yaroslavich


Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 15:45:49 -0500 (EST)
From: alysk at ix.netcom.com
Subject: SC - Violet Recipes

Greetings.  Here are a bunch of violet gleanings from various
sources.  Note the use of gum arabic.  Many of the ones I didn't
copy are for violets solidified in a chunk of sugar, probably making
the violet unrecognizable since hot sugar and a delicate violet work
hazards on the flower.  -- Alys Katharine

Martha Washington's _Booke of Cookery_:

"To candy flowers in theyr naturall culler"  (#S85) ñ "Take ye flowers with theyr stalks, & wash them in rose water, wherein gum arabeck is dissolved. then take fine searced sugar, & dust it over them. & set them A drying in a sive, set in an oven. & (they will) glister like sugar candy."

"To candy violet flowers" (#S86) ñ "Take violets which are new & well cullered. weigh them, and to every ounce of flowers take 4 ounces of very white refined sugar, & dissolve it in 2 ounces of water soe boyle it till it turn to sugar again, & scum it very often that it may be very clear, then take it of & let it coole. after, put in yr violet flowers, stiring them together till ye 
sugar grow hard to ye pan. yn put them in a box & keep them to dry in a stove.

_A Closet for Ladies and Gentlewomen_, printed by John Haviland, 1636.

"To candie all manner of flowers in their naturall colours" ñ "Take the Flowers with the stalks and wash them over with a little Rose-water, wherein Gum-arabecke is dissolved; then take fine searced Sugar, and dust over them, and let them a drying on the bottome of a Sieve in an Oven, and they will gilster as if it were Sugar-candie."

_The Ladies Cabinet_, 1655

"To candy all kinde of Flowers as they grow, with their stalks on." (#40) ñ "Take the Flowers, cut the stalks somewhat short, then take one pound of the whitest and hardest sugar you can get, put to it eight spoonfuls of Rose-water, and boil it till it will roul between your finger and your thumb; then take it from the fire, cool it with a stick, and as it waxeth cold, dip in all your 
Flowers, and taking them out again suddenly, lay them one by one on the bottom of a sieve; then turne a joyned stool with the feet upward, set the sieve on the feet thereof, cover it with a fair linne cloth, and set a chafingdish of coals in the middest of the stool, underneath the sieve, and the heat thereof will run up to the sieve, and dry your Candy presently; then box them up, and they will keep all the yeer, and looke very pleasantly."

_The Second Part of the Good Hus-wives Jewell_, Thomas Dawson, 1597.

"To make sirrope of Violets" ñ "First gather a great quantity of violet flowers, and pick them cleane from the stalkes and set them on the fire, and put to them so much Rosewater as you thinke good, then let them boile altogether untill the colour be forth of them then take them of the fire and straine them through a fine cloth, then put so much suger to them as you thinke good, then set it against the fire until it be somewhat thick, and put it into a violl glasse."

_A True Gentlewoman's Delight_, W.I., Gent., 1653

"To make Oyle of Violets." ñ "Set the Violets in Sallade oyle, and strain them, then put in other fresh Violets, and let them lye twenty dayes, then strain them again, and put in other fresh Violets, and let them stand all the year."


Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 22:20:08 +0100
From: "Cindy M. Renfrow" <cindy at thousandeggs.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Birthdays and Daffy Dills

>From Gerard's Herbal - Marigold - pages 738-741
"Calendula. Marigold.
The yellow leaues of the floures are dried and kept throughout Dutchland
against Winter, to put into broths, in physicall potions, and for diuers other purposes, in such quantity, that in some Grocers or Spice-sellers houses are to be found barrels filled with them, and retailed by the penny more or lesse, insomuch that no broths are well made without dried Marigolds."

I've heard Frank Purdue feeds his chickens calendula petals to give them
that nice golden color.

Regardimg Tagetes species ("French," "African," or "American" Marigolds --
the marigolds most often found in American flower gardens), Gerard thought
them to be poisonous because they smelled "ranke and unwholesome" and
because his cat allegedly died after eating some.

Cindy Renfrow/Sincgiefu
cindy at thousandeggs.com


Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 06:31:45 EST
From: CorwynWdwd at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Birthdays and Daffy Dills

LrdRas at aol.com writes:
> Calendula, which are quite tasty, are also known as pot marigolds.
>  
>  Ras

And they are VERY edible. Just don't confuse them with the African Marigold 
so often used in modern landscaping. Even Gerard says they're poisonous. I 
seem to remember him recounting a child dying from eating the then recently 
introduced African marigold, and he did an experiment with a chicken or a dog 
or something himself ... but alas my memory is poor and the book isn't at 
hand. If anybody's interested I'll look it up.

Calendula however was used in soups and broths and was said to lighten the 
heart of the person consuming it. I use in in a concoction I call "Bruise 
Butter" mostly. Very popular in this neck of the woods.

Corwyn


Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 23:52:19 -0600
From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Saxon Violets

'Lainie asked about violet recipes a while back. Here is what looks rather like a violet pudding?

Vyolette
Two Fifteenth Century Cookery Books p. 29

Take Flourys of Vyolet, boyle hem, presse hem, bray hem smal, temper hem vppe with Almaunde mylke, or gode Cow Mylke, a-lye it with Amyndoun or Flowre of Rys; take Sugre y-now, an putte ther-to, or hony in defaute; coloure it with the same that the flowrys be on y-peyntid a-boue. [thorns replaced by th]

Elizabeth/Betty Cook


Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 11:08:26 -0600
From: "Michael F. Gunter" <michael.gunter at fnc.fujitsu.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Saxon Violets

> 'Lainie asked about violet recipes a while back. Here is what looks
> rather like a violet pudding?

> Vyolette
> Two Fifteenth Century Cookery Books p. 29
>
> Take Flourys of Vyolet, boyle hem, presse hem, bray hem smal, temper
> hem vppe with Almaunde mylke, or gode Cow Mylke, a-lye it with
> Amyndoun or Flowre of Rys; take Sugre y-now, an putte ther-to, or
> hony in defaute; coloure it with the same that the flowrys be on
> y-peyntid a-boue. [thorns replaced by th]
>
> Elizabeth/Betty Cook (well behind the list)

I have a question about this recipe. 

Basically, here is my interpretation:
Take violet petals, boil them in water, press them dry, mince.
Add the minced petals to either Almond Milk or Cow's milk and
stir in amyndoun or rice flour. Put in enough sugar to make it sweet
or you can add honey if you prefer.

I'm not sure about the last sentence. I guess it can mean present
it so the flowers are represented above.
I would think this would be heated or boiled until it comes together
but no mention is made of heating the mixture. How does this become
pudding like? Is the rice flour enough alone to thicken it?
It sounds neat and a wonderful addition to something like a Queen's
luncheon. 

I guess I'll have to try it myself. 
Gunthar

Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 14:17:06 +1100
From: Lorix <lorix at trump.net.au>
Subject: Re: SC - Violet Sugar Plate Was Saxon Violets

david friedman wrote:
> 'Lainie asked about violet recipes a while back. Here is what looks
> rather like a violet pudding?
>
> Vyolette
> Two Fifteenth Century Cookery Books p. 29

I have just found another recipe for violets for the use in making 'marbled'
sugar plate in a book that I have been devouring (well not literally ;-)
Sugar Plums & Sherbet - The Prehistory of Sweets, by Laura Mason
ISBN: 0907325 831

For those interested in the book, it would make a nice addition to the library.
Author goes thru the history of sweets & reprints 'period' recipes from various
sources & then offers a redaction for some of them.  It is extensively footnoted
& sources quoted.  It is also a good book for those learning how to make candy
has it gives lots of technique info.

I have given some extra info included in the book about the making & use of
sugar plate in general for those interested & have copied the period & redacted
recipe at the end.  I would note that the period recipe calls for a number of
different edible flowers.  However, given the profusion of colours in violets,
if all you needed was differing colours for the marbled effect, you could just
use violets ;-)

<snip of sugar-paste info. See the sugar-paste-msg file - Stefan>

NOW FOR THE BIT OF INTEREST FOR LAINIE:
Sugar plate could be coloured and scented with flowers.  By using the results
judiciously, it could be made to resemble fine marble as in the following recipe
by 'W.M' (1655)  'A Queens Delight', Facsimile 1984, Prospect Books, London.

"To make paste of flowers the colour of marble, tasting of the natural flowers:
Take every sort of pleasing Flowers, as Violets, Cowslips, Gily-flowers, Roses,
or Marigolds, and beat them in a Mortar, each flower by itself with sugar, till
the sugar become the colour of the flower, then put in a little Gum Dragon
steept in water into it, and beat into a perfect paste; and when you have half a
dozen colours, every flower will take of his nature, then rowl the paste
therein, and lay one piece upon another, in mingling sort, so rowl your Paste in
small rowls, as big and as long as your finger, then cut it off the bigness of a
small Nut, overthwart, and so rowl them thin, that you may see a knife through
them, so dry them before the fire till they be dry".

<snip of sugar-paste info. See the sugar-paste-msg file - Stefan>

Lorix


Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 11:14:58 -0800
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
Subject: Re: SC - Saxon Violets

'Lainie wrote:
>  Where are you? I'm in Western Oregon, and they're all over.

Not to quibble, but Lainie are you sure what are growing where you 
are are true violets? I know that in California some people call 
another plant, that is absolutely definitely not a viola family 
member and lacks violet scent a "violet" because it's small and 
purple (i don't know what it is, but it's a common ground cover, 
though).

If anyone is planning to try this, make sure you are getting true 
violets. They are edible, as are their cousins the pansies, the 
johnnie-jump-ups, the good king henrys, etc. although these lack 
violet scent.

Anahita al-shazhiyya


Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 11:22:12 -0800
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
Subject: Re: SC - Saxon Violets

Lainie wrote:
>Violas and violets are not the same thing- look similar, but not. Violas
>are more closely related to pansies, IIRC.

But violets ARE violas. Pansies and sweet violets are both types of 
violae. Pansies, unfortunately lack the violet scent, but are quite 
edible. I can buy boxes of mixed flowers in the supermarket. 
Pansies/johnnie-jump-ups/good king henrys/heart's ease are in there 
along with borage and nasturtiums and some other things that i 
forget, to toss into salads or put on desserts or tea sandwiches.

Anahita al-shazhiyya


Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 10:00:00 EDT
From: DianaFiona at aol.com
Subject: SC - Growing Edible Flowers

    Considering our discussions on this topic recently, I thought this 
newsletter from Burpee, the seed company, might interest some of 
ya'll.............. :-)


                    Ldy Diana

=======================
 
 Growing Edible Flowers
 
 Adding flowers to food has long been a custom in many
 cultures around the world. For centuries, Chinese cooks
 have used lotus, chrysanthemum, and lily flowers or buds
 in their recipes. Some flowers provide a nutritional boost
 as well as flavor. Nasturtiums, for example, are high in
 vitamins A, C (10 times as much as in lettuce), and D.
 
 You may be growing an array of edible flowers in your
 garden already without knowing it. If you grow calendulas,
 chrysanthemums, dandelions daylilies, Johnny-jump-ups,
 lavender, marigolds, nasturtiums, pansies, roses, scented
 geraniums, squash blossoms, or sunflowers, you have an
 edible flower garden.
 
 Here are some tips for using the blossoms to add beauty,
 pizzazz, and flavor to your meals.
 
 1. Taste the flowers before you harvest them. The flavor
 may vary depending on the plant, the soil, and weather
 conditions. You may find flowers in one part of your
 garden taste better than the same flowers in a different area.
 In general, flowers that receive excess water will not be
 
 2. Flowers are best used on the day they are picked. Gather
 them in the cool of the morning after the dew has evaporated.
 Choose flowers that are at their peak, avoiding those not yet
 open and or wilted.
 
 3. Wash flowers thoroughly and gently, and store them
 between layers of paper towels. You can also place them
 in plastic bags in the refrigerator until later in the day.
 
 4. In most cases, the petals taste the best, so discard the
 sepals and other flower parts inside the petals, such as the
 pistils, ovaries, and stamens. You can eat the entire flowers
 of Johnny-jump-ups, violets, honeysuckle, and clover.
 Roses, dianthus, English daisies, Signet marigolds, and
 chrysanthemums have a bitter white portion at the base of
 the petal where it was attached to the flower, so remove
 that before using them.
 
 5. All edible flowers will enhance a salad, and many are
 tasty in vinaigrette dressings. Add them to soups, pasta
 salads, and stir fries before serving. Squash blossoms are
 tasty battered and fried. For more recipe ideas, consult books
 on edible flower gardening, such as Edible Flowers, by
 Cathy Wilkinson Barash.
 
 6. Lastly, some words of caution: Choose only flowers that
 have been grown organically and have no pesticide residue.
 Avoid florist flowers because they have likely been sprayed.
 Do not eat flowers if you have asthma, allergies, or hay fever.
 
 Question of the Week
 =================
 Q. Which edible flowers can be grown in containers on a balcony?
 
 A. Chives, lavender, Johnny-jump-ups, marigolds, nasturtiums,
 pansies, and geraniums are only some of the edible flowers that
 can thrive in containers. You might interplant them with herbs,
 such as thyme, sage, and parsley, for added benefit.


From: RuddR at aol.com
Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 21:28:42 EDT
Subject: Vyolette
To: masterhuen at egroups.com, mk-cooks at midrealm.org,
        owner-sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

The violets were blanketing my rock garden last week, and I decided to 
harvest them.  I spent most of last Saturday picking violets and trimming 
their petals off.  It was even more tedious than blanching almonds.  I hauled 
out _Two Fifteenth-Century Cookery-Books_ and turned to:

VYOLETTE
Take Flourys of Vyolet, boyle hem, presse hem, bray hem smal, temper hem vppe 
with Almaunde mylke, or gode Cowe Mylke, a-lye it with Amyndoun or Flowre of 
Rys; take Sugre y-now, an putte (th)er-to, or hony in defaute; coloure it 
with (th)e same (th)at (th)e flowrys be on y-peyntid a-boue.
Harelian MS 279

This recipe gives choices for just about every ingredient.  I chose almond 
milk and rice flour because I had almond milk I needed to use up, and 
happened to have rice flour on hand. The "flowrys y-peyntid aboue" mentioned 
in the recipe refer to the previous recipe, and were painted with saffron or 
sandlewood.  Why anyone would further color this lovely lavender pudding with 
yellow or red is beyond me. Although it it not specifically mentioned, I 
chose to simmer the almond milk and rice flour in order to aid thickening and 
cook the flour.  One might consider using the violet colored water left after 
boiling the petals to use making the almond milk.  Here is my redaction:

2 C violet petals, trimmed and rinsed.
1 C water
1 1/2 C unstrained almond milk
2 T rice flour
4 tsp sugar
1/4 tsp saffron, optional

1. In a saucepan, bring water to a boil.  Stir in violet petals, return to 
the boil, stirring constantly, for one minute.  Drain the petals in a sieve, 
and press out as much water as possible.  

2. On a cutting board, finely mince the boiled petals, and mash them to a 
paste.

3.  In a saucepan, over medium heat, bring almond milk to a boil, reduce 
heat, and simmer, stirring frequently, for two minutes.  Stir in mashed 
petals.  Stir in rice flour, a bit at a time,  Stir in sugar and saffron.  
Continue to simmer and stir for five minutes.  Serve in individual small 
bowls.

Serves four.

It was okay; It had the consistency of thick oatmeal, and was pleasantly 
sweet.  The saffron, as well as changing the color from lavender to pale 
yellow-green, added a saffron taste which covered up the delicate violet 
taste it originally had.  Oh well, that's what the primary source said to do, 
and we've got to take them at their word.  Using strained almond milk or cow 
milk would have given it a smoother texture, but might have required more 
rice flour to thicken it.  I don't know if I'll try it again next year at 
this time; it was a lot of work.

Rudd Rayfield


Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 06:26:29 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Par Leijonhufvud <parlei at algonet.se>
Subject: SC - 'This the Season, or "Sambucade with fresh elderflowers"

[Since my copy of Curye on Inglysch is at home no original will be given
at this time. Forme of Curye #179 if my memory is accurate]

Tried Sambucade with fresh flowers last night. Ate (parts of) it warm,
and the fresh elderflower-taste was a hit. Those of you who can get hold
of the flowers should try this; I'll be gathering a load of them and
freezing for future use.

Redacted recipie

500 g fresh cheese ("Kesella" for the one or two other Swedes here)
5 egg whites
sugar (app. 50 ml, went by guess and feeling)
rosewater (perhaps 1/2-1 T)
3-4 dl of fresh elderflowers (Sambucus <mumble>)
(pie shell)

Baked at 175 C until done (40 min, IIRC).

/UlfR
 what to do with 5 egg yolks...
- -- 
Par Leijonhufvud                                      parlei at algonet.se


Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 07:39:57 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Par Leijonhufvud <parlei at algonet.se>
Subject: Re: SC - 'This the Season, or "Sambucade with fresh elderflowers"

On Mon, 19 Jun 2000, RANDALL DIAMOND wrote:
> and flowers.  I wonder if there is anyway to ship sprays of elderflower
> blossoms out fresh.  They are very easy to harvest.   Are y'all using the
> recipe in Pleyn Delight?  

Forme of Curye. Number hundred-and-seventy<mumble>.

> When I made it last time, the flowers made a l ovely pattterning
> across the top of it.  You prefer to eat It warm??  I like it
> chilled like a cheesecake.

I tried the leftovers chilled last night. Prefered it warm. It falls
(IMHO) in the same category as lemon curd; good cold but divine warm.
The original doesn't mention chilling, just serving, so I would not
guess that either is impossible.

/UlfR


Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 22:58:55 -0700
From: "Browning, Susan W." <bsusan at corp.earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: SC - 'This the Season, or "Sambucade with fresh elderflowers"

Personally, I didn't care for the dried elderflower taste.  The basic
cheesecake with orange flower water instead of rosewater was very good
though.

Eleanor d'Aubrecicourt


Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 23:43:17 +0200
From: TG <gloning at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE>
Subject: SC - Help finding an Elderflower Tart Recipe

<< Does anyone know where I can find an Elderflower Tart Recipe?? >>

- -- Anonimo Veneziano
   #99 torta (additional #27: fritelle, #71, #72 sambugado)

- -- Cuoco Napoletano
   #135 torta (additional #173: fritelle)
   Scully mentions a further recipe in:

- -- Forme of Cury #179

- -- Maestro Martino
   + Riva del Garda #148 torta, additional #184, #192 fritelle
   + Urb.Lat has recipes for torta, minestra and fritelle

- -- Platina VIII 32 Torta Sambucea (Elderberry Pie; "...elder flowers")

- -- Not a tart, but an interesting recipe in Rumpolt: Take the
elderflowers on the stalk (?), wash them and put them into a hot, sweet
dough, then cook them in hot fat and put sugar onto it (the German text
is online in the 'Gebackenes'-chapter of Rumpolt; #13). I heard that
this is still made in Bohemia today.

There are many recipes for _Holdermus_ in the German corpus, e.g. #38 in
the Sabina Welserin cookbook, to mention a recipe, where you have not
only the original, but also a translation online. -- There is a recipe
for elderflower honey in the cookbook of Goethe's grandmother from 1724
"Holler Honig zu machen" ... but I begin to digress.

Thomas


Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 23:42:37 EDT
From: Korrin S DaArdain <korrin.daardain at juno.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Help finding a recipe??

DeeWolff at aol.com wrote:
> Does anyone know where I can find an Elderflower Tart Recipe??
> 
> Does anyone have a favorite of above??
> 
> Andrea

Enjoy,

Korrin S. DaArdain
Korrin.DaArdain at Juno.com

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
	Sambocade
	From Twelfth Night Feast In The Crown Province of ÿstgardr, East
Kingdom A.S. XXIX (A.D. 1995) by Phil Troy (Gideanus Adamantius)
(troy at asan.com)
	"Sambocade. Take and make a crust in a trap & take cruddes and
wryng out ˛e wheyze and draw hem ˛urgh a straynour and put hit in ˛e
crust. Do ˛erto sugur the ˛ridde part, & somdel whyte of ayren, & shake
˛erin blomes of elren; & bake it vp with eurose, & messe it forth."
	Curye On Inglysch, Book IV, Forme of Cury, ed. Constance B.
Hieatt & Sharon Butler, Oxford University Press, Oxford 1985.
	Two departures from a fairly simple recipe: Eurose, eau rose, or
rose water, has been replaced with the liquer Sambuca Romana. Like this
cheesecake, it is flavored with elderflowers, and we happened to have
some on hand. The second departure is less capricious. Somdel whytes of
ayren, or egg whites, were replaced with whole eggs. While this detracts
from the whiteness of the cake, it means that I don't have to come up
with a use for four hundred egg yolks. In any case, the dried
elderflowers we used, which were yellowish in color, floated to the tops
of the cakes, giving them a sort of mustard color, anyhow. The presence
of yolks also gave the middle of the cakes a somewhat custardy texture,
and a richness they would otherwise lack. We also, after a bit of
tinkering, added some heavy cream to the filling, partly to keep the
yolks from curdling in the oven, and partly because, well, just because.
	Ingredients:
	45 prebaked open pieshells
	40 pounds Ricotta cheese
	4 quarts heavy cream
	200 eggs
	8 pounds sugar
	8 ounces Sambuca
	10 ounces dried elderflowers
	Scaled down for eight servings:
	1 prebaked open 9-inch pieshell
	1 pound ricotta cheese
	1/2 cup heavy cream
	4 eggs
	2/3 cup sugar
	1 ounce Sambuca or 1 Tbs rosewater
	4 Tbs dried elderflowers (available at herb shops like Aphrodisia
	    in Manhattan) or about 2/3 cup fresh elderflowers
	1 pinch salt
	The pieshell should be prebaked in a 350∞ F oven for about ten
minutes, and should not have browned. If using dried flowers, soak them
in the heavy cream for 10 - 15 minutes. Thoroughly mix the cheese, eggs,
sugar, Sambuca and salt. Add cream and flowers and mix again. Fill
pieshell and bake at 350∞ F for about 25 minutes. The filling will just
barely quiver (yes, like Jell-o) when it's done, instead of slopping like
a liquid when you shake it a bit. Or test with a toothpick, but by the
time the toothpick shows it done, it may overcook. The wiggle test is
better, especially if there are spectators. Eat at room temperature.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 18:44:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jenne Heise <jenne at tulgey.browser.net>
Subject: Re: SC - platina feast

> Where does one get dried elderflowers and some of the other exotic 
> ingredients?

Online herb shops have the dried elderflowers. I got some from pennherb
(www.pennherb.com) they aren't my favorite supplier, but they'll do.

Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise	


Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 08:28:18 -0800
From: Elaine Koogler <ekoogler1 at comcast.net>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Questions....
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

I have a couple of questions that I suspect you guys may be able to  
answer:

In one recipe, I encountered a reference to "leavening"....from de Nola:

Oranges from Xativa Which Are Crullers

<snip – see leavening-msg>

Secondly, I also have a recipe, from Cuoco Napoletano, for a Cherry
Torte that calls for rose petals.  Now I know I won't be able to get
these locally as I doubt we'll have roses in early May.  And I know I
can't go to a florist for them because those have been treated with
insecticides, etc.  Any suggestions as to where I could get these...or
could I simply omit them.  The recipe calls for sprinkling rosewater
over the torte after it has baked, so it will get some of that flavor.
I don't know that I want to add rosewater to the ingredients for the
torte because it would be too watery.

Thanks in advance for your help/advice.

Kiri


Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 10:01:47 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
From: Robin Carroll-Mann <rcmann4 at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Questions....
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Kiri wrote:
<snip>

> Secondly, I also have a recipe, from Cuoco Napoletano, for a Cherry
> Torte that calls for rose petals.  Now I know I won't be able to get
> these locally as I doubt we'll have roses in early May.  And I know I
> can't go to a florist for them because those have been treated with
> insecticides, etc.  Any suggestions as to where I could get these...or
> could I simply omit them.

I have seen dried rosebuds in the health-food store, amongst the herbs.  
  The brand they carry is Frontier:
http://www.frontiercoop.com/shop/merchant.mvc

I have never tried cooking with these.  You'd probably want to  
rehydrate the petals.

Brighid ni Chiarain


Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 10:03:58 -0500
From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius"
	<adamantius.magister at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Questions....
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Also sprach Elaine Koogler:
<snip>

> Secondly, I also have a recipe, from Cuoco Napoletano, for a Cherry
> Torte that calls for rose petals.  Now I know I won't be able to get
> these locally as I doubt we'll have roses in early May.  And I know
> I can't go to a florist for them because those have been treated
> with insecticides, etc.  Any suggestions as to where I could get
> these...or could I simply omit them.  The recipe calls for
> sprinkling rosewater over the torte after it has baked, so it will
> get some of that flavor.  I don't know that I want to add rosewater
> to the ingredients for the torte because it would be too watery.

Actually, if it's warm from the oven (which is when things sprinkled
with aromatics are usually at their best), there's still going to be
all sorts of internal steam activity; a _small_ amount of rosewater,
even a few pumps of some kind of spray atomizer thingy, probably
wouldn't hurt. We're probably talking about less than 1/4 tsp of
rosewater here, so I doubt it would get watery. It might just take
the edge of some of the crispness, but not too badly, I'd think.
Another possibility, if you think it's appropriate, would be to get
some candied rose petals and garnish with those.

Adamantius


Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 14:39:50 -0500 (EST)
From: <jenne at fiedlerfamily.net>
Subject: Re [Sca-cooks] Questions....
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

You can get dried rose petals from an herb retailer (be sure to get
organic and/or food safe labelled ones), and refresh them in rosewater 
and or water.

-- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne at fiedlerfamily.net"I am in a corner


Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 16:20:23 -0500
From: Daniel Myers <edouard at medievalcookery.com>
Sbject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Questions....
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

The spice shop I'm now partnered with - thegoatinthegarden.com - is
still looking for a quality wholesale source for rose petals, but does
not currently carry them (I'll let you know when we get them in).

In the manwhile, if you're in the United States then you might want to
check with  Mountain Rose Herbs
[ www.mountainroseherbs.com ] which carries food-grade red and pink
roses.  I been told that they're nice people and have a decent product.

- Doc
-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
   Edouard Halidai  (Daniel Myers)
   http://www.medievalcookery.com/


Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 22:22:06 -0400
From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <rcmann4 at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Sour Cherry Pie
To: Coos within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

On 22 Apr 2004, at 22:06, Patrick Levesque wrote:
> Regarding the roses and rosewater; the red roses also contribute
> sgnificantly to the color of the dish. I wonder if they were added for
> color or for taste (or both? Even though cherries will give off a good 
> color anyway...)
>
> Petru

I've used dried rosebuds from the health-food store as garnishes.  
They're food-safe, and are in the bulk herbs section.  The brand I bought was 
Frontier.

Brighid ni Chiarain *** mka Robin Carroll-Mann
Barony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom


Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 12:28:07 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
From: Christiane <christianetrue at earthlink.net>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Gilly water
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Someone had asked about what gilly water is. Gillies are the  
old-fashioned term for carnations. Actually, today's carnations are  
just bred-up gillyflowers. Old-fashioned gillies are smaller, with an  
intensely spicy fragrance, quite nice. They're traditional English  
cottage garden flowers. In Potter stories, gillywater is a drink, but  
the flowers do have a history of being used as a flavoring in wines and  
ales. From the 1911 Encyclopedia:

GILLYFLOWER, a popular name applied to various flowers, but principally  
to the clove, Dianthus Caryophyllus, of which the carnation is a  
cultivated variety, and to the stock, Matthiola incana, a well-known  
garden favorite. The word is sometimes written gilliflower or  
gilloflower, and is reputedly a corruption of July-flower, so called  
from the month they blow in. Henry Phillips (1775-1838), in his Flora  
/iistorica, remarks that Turner (1568) calls it gelouer, to which he  
adds the word stock, as we would say gelouers that grow on a stem or  
stock, to distinguish them from the clove-gelouers and the  
wall-gelouers. Gerard, who succeeded Turner, and after him Parkinson,  
calls it gilloflower, and thus it travelled from its original  
orthography until it was called July-flower by those who knew not  
whence it was derived. Dr Prior, in his useful volume on the Popular  
Names of British Plants, very distinctly shows the origin of the name.  
He remarks that it was formerly spelt gyllofer !
  and gilofre with the o long, from the French giroftde, Italian  
garofalo (M. Lat. gariofilum), corrupted from the Latin Caryophyllum,  
and referring to the spicy odour of the flower, which seems to have  
been used in flavouring wine and other liquors to replace the more  
costly clove of India. The name was originally given in Italy to plants  
of the pink tribe, especially the carnation, but has in England been  
transferred of late years to several crucifrous plants. The gillyflower  
of Chaucer and Spenser and Shakespeare was, as in Italy, Dianthus  
Caryophyllus; that of later writers and of gardeners, Maithiola. Much  
of the confusion in the names of plants has doubtless arisen from the  
vague use of the French terms girofte, crillet and violette, which were  
all applied to flowers of the pink tribe, but in England were  
subsequently extended and finally restricted to very different plants.  
The use made of the flowers to impart a spicy flavour to ale and wine  
is alluded to by Chaucer, !
  who writes:

And many a clove gilofre To put in ale ;

also by Spenser, who refers to them by the name of sops in wine, which  
was applied in consequence of their being steeped in the liquor. In  
both these cases, however, it is the clove-gillyflower which is  
intended, as it is also in the passage from Gerard, in which he states  
that the conserve made of the flowers with sugar is exceeding cordiall,  
and wonderfully above measure doth comfort the heart, being eaten now  
and then. The principal other plants which bear the name are the  
wallflower, Chei rant hus Cheiri, called wall-gillyflower in old books;  
the dames violet, Hesperis matronalis, called variously the queens, the  
rogues and the winter gillyflower; the ragged-robin, Lychnis  
Flos-cuculi, called marsh-gillyflower and cuckoo-gillyflower; the  
waterviolet, Hottonia pal ustris, called water-gillyflower; and the  
thrift, A rmeria vulgaris, called sea-gillyflower. As a separate  
designation it is nowadays usually applied to the wallflower.

Gianotta


Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 13:58:02 -0700
From: "Jill Brown" <ldygab at msn.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] RE: peppermint
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Oh, I agree....pinch your flowers, so you get bushier plants, but by all
means, don't get rid of them...nasturtiums, johnny jump ups (small pansy),
pansies, viola, feverfew, mint, calendula...the list goes on and on....one
thing I used to do w/tulips is cut the stamen, etc, out and fill the petal
bowl up w/choc mousse...haven't in years, but pretty and fun....I would put
them in salads and even vegetable dips, on cakes, etc.

Have fun...experiment...I am at work, but I can give you a couple book
recommendations for cooking w/edible flowers...

Gab/Antir-Aquaterra


Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 12:59:56 -0500
From: Elaine Koogler <ekoogler1 at comcast.net>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Marigolds?
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

I would like to recreate the wonderful Scotch flower liquer that I
tasted at the MKCC.  I've managed to find all of the ingredients except
the dried marigold flowers.  I find people selling the stuff in the UK,
Australia and Bulgaria...but none that is food grade in the US.  I am
assuming that, like roses, you need to make sure that poisonous sprays
weren't used on the flowers, so the ones that are dried for floral use
wouldn't work, right?  Does anyone know where in the US one might find
such a thing?  Or...if I can't find them in the US, how would it work to
omit them.  The listing I have calls for lavender, rosehips, and
elderflower...all of which I've been able to find.

Kiri


Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 13:30:41 EST
From: CorwynWdwd at aol.com
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Marigolds?
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

ekoogler1 at comcast.net writes:
>>>
I would  like to recreate the wonderful Scotch flower liquer that I
tasted at the  MKCC.  I've managed to find all of the ingredients except
the dried  marigold flowers.
<<<

First things first... you may already know this, but what you're looking  for
is Calendula officinalis , not Tagetes erecta or Tagetes patula. The former
is European and edible, the latter is Mexican in origin, and according to
most authorities, poisonous. But both are called Marigold. Calendula is also
referred to as pot marigold. Either can be found dried, but the former you will
find in herb shops or natural food stores with bulk bins. The latter in flower
shops perhaps, if not growing in someone's yard <G>.

Just a heads up in case.

Corwyn


Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 19:56:44 -0500
From: Elaine Koogler <ekoogler1 at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Marigolds?
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Sue Clemenger wrote:
> That would be calendula officianalis, then.  Look online for places that do
> herbal supplies for remedies, lotions, soaps, etc.  I know they're out
> there, I just don't have the bookmarks any more. ;-(
> --maire

Thanks!  I just ordered some from a company in Canada called
Gaia...price seemed fairly reasonable, but I suspect I'll wind up with a
lot of the dried herb!  And, given their Web site, I suspect that they
might not be happy with my using it to make a cordial!  Oh well.

Your advice was quite helpful.  Where I had originally "googled" on
marigold, doing it using the scientific name brought me precisely the
information I needed.

Kiri


Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 23:07:35 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Recipes with flowers?
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Quick and easy.
Go to www.medievalcookery.com and search under rose
http://www.medievalcookery.com/cgi-bin/search.pl?term=rose&file=all
numerous recipes-- several not rosewater...

Also search under flower
http://www.medievalcookery.com/cgi-bin/search.pl?term=flower&file=all

Johnnae

Bronwynmgn at aol.com wrote:
We are doing a public demo tomorrow night at an event whose theme is  
"Blooming", and I was wondering if people can give me links to any recipes with  
flowers in them.  It will be easier for me to print out links than look in  books with such short notice.  Not expecting to have time to actually make  anything.
  Brangwayna Morgan


Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2008 21:07:08 -0400
From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius1 at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] elderflowers
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

On Jun 3, 2008, at 8:03 PM, KristiWhyKelly at aol.com wrote:

<<< Has anyone had experience with elderflowers?  I've ordered dried  
ones  years ago and I remember them as almost too fragrant.  My Adams  
elderflower  finally flowered this year, and I wonder if I need to do something with them, like dry them.  Fresh, they have no scent nor flavor.

Any ideas?  Or do I just hold out for the berries? >>>

The flowers are good in sambocade, which is a 14th-century English  
cheesecake variant flavored with elder flowers. The recipe doesn't  
specify that they be dried, but it seems like it works much better with  
dried flowers. Basically it's fresh white curd cheese, egg (whites  
only), the flowers and a little sugar in a crust.

Adamantius


Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2008 06:40:33 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] elderflowers
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

They also appear in a variety of other places.
38 To make elderflower pudding. Take elder flowers, boil them in milk 
and strain them, make a firm dough from eggs and flour and roll it into 
a thin flat cake, cut it into the shape of little worms and put them 
into the milk, salt it and put fat into it and let it cook. *Das 
Kuchbuch der Sabina Welserin. *Germany, 16th century - V. Armstrong, trans.

LXXV - Elderflower confectionery. Pick the flowers off the twigs. Put 
them in the sun so that they're well dry. Take honey in a pot and boil 
to make them well dry. Add to it pepper, ginger, cloves, nutmeg flowers 
and cinnamon. This confectionery can be used to several roasts. *Koge Bog*
(Denmark, 1616 - Martin Forest, trans.)

http://www.medievalcookery.com/cgi-bin/search.pl?term=elderflower&file=all

Johnnae


Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 08:16:57 -0400
From: "Elaine Koogler" <kiridono at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] elderflowers
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

And I've made a wonderful cordial using scotch, elderflowers, rose hips,
lavender and pot marigold.  I don't have a period recipe for it, but it's
wonderful stuff.

Kiri


Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 18:39:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: tracey sawyer <tfsawyer at yahoo.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Lochac] clove pinks
To: lochac at lochac.sca.org

Bianca asked: snip> But are the flowers - whatever sort - edible?? Or are they just meant to be admired and scooped off? <endsnip>

The honeysuckle site (from Aylwen) says: <snip>
The fresh petals are spicy flavoured and edible. They are used to decorate salads (an Elizabethans delight), to decorate open faced sandwiches, to scatter over desserts, to flavour sweet butter (chop finely and add to unsalted butter, then wrap in a sausage shape with plastic cling film and store in the refrigerator) used to spread on warm scones and pikelets, and to add fragrance to mulled wines and cordials (another Elizabethan indulgence). The intensely fragrant flowers are delightful in posies and for use in buttonholes. All varieties are long-lived perennials, requiring a sunny position. They are ideal for edging paths, for rockeries, and to grow in garden pots where you can enjoy their fragrance.? <end snip>

So yes, edible... further down their page there is a variety of pinks called "sops-in-wine" which dates from the 1400s....

Lowry


Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 12:47:56 +1000
From: Raymond Wickham <insidious565 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Lochac] clove pinks
To: <lochac at lochac.sca.org>

Pick the blooms as close to serving time as possible. Time and heat can 
diffuse their heady fragrance, so pick early on hot days. Refrigerate 
blooms if you must hold them for more than a short time. Gently pull off
the petals just before serving. Scatter the petals in a salad or over a
dessert; add as garnish to a vegetable or fruit plate or as confetti 
down the center of the dining table. Be sure to remove the bitter white 
bottom from clove pinks' petals before serving them.


Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2014 15:27:28 -0800 (GMT-08:00)
From: <lilinah at earthlink.net>
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Borage

K C Francis <katiracook at hotmail.com> wrote:
<<< In our community garden, with 2 bee hives, I foster borage anywhere it isn't in the way of plantings or walking around. Then it goes into my compost pile. I don't want to discourage reproduction. The same goes for poppies, nasturtiums and purslane. Let it grow until it is a problem. This last year I let a patch of nasturtiums get too full and it stunted a couple of tomato plants. While the flowers were beautiful, I really wanted the tomatoes! >>>

Nasturtium flowers are edible and a beautiful addition to a salad. The pale green flower buds can be picked at the end of the summer, pickled, and used like capers. And the leaves can be eaten while young. They can be used in salads (although a salad entirely of them might be a bit too spicy), cooked as almost any greens, and i've run across recipes for nasturtium leaf pesto. I've also seen recipes for dolmades made with more mature nasturtium leaves.

Nasturtiums are no replacement for tomatoes, but they can do more than look bright and cheerful in a garden.

Someone sometimes called Urtatim

<the end>
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