compost-msg - 12/1/09 A medieval pickled food composed of mixed fruits and vegetables. Also called compote. "Compost is a mixed pickle, usually, but not always, made from mixed fruits, vegetables, and sometimes immature nuts, usually in a sauce made from honey, white wine, vinegar, mustard and other spices." NOTE: See also the files: campfood-msg, food-storage-msg, canning-msg, drying-foods-msg, meat-smoked-msg, stockfish-msg, vinegar-msg, eggs-msg, pickled-foods-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ From: "Philip W. Troy" Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 00:57:03 -0400 Subject: Re: SC - Pickles linneah at erols.com wrote: > Why haven't I seen more pickled things (veggies and meats) served at feasts? > Is it because it takes too much planning or is there something else? > > Linneah It might be just that people don't want to store the food for long enough in advance for the process to be completed. I've had good sucess with the composte recipe from The Forme of Cury. It's a sort of cooked pickle/jam/chutney. A bit like Italian mustard fruits. Adamantius From: "James L. Matterer" Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 11:49:41 -0700 Subject: Re: SC - SC Pickels Cossette wrote: >Why haven't I seen more pickled things (veggies and meats) served at >feasts? Is it because it takes too much planning or is there something >else? > >Linneah Well, I've been making pickled dishes an integral part of every feast I've done for the past several years. The most popular seems to be English-style pickled eggs (which I usually make as part of a Ploughman's Lunch, with pickled onions, bread, & cheese), but one of my favorites is a dish called "Compost" which contains raisins, pears, cabbage, walnuts, mustard seeds, anise seeds, white radishes... all pickled together in white wine and honey. Here's the original recipe with my redaction: Compost redaction by Master Ian Damebrigge of Wychwood "Take rote of persel, of pasternak, of rafens, scape hem and waische hem clene. Take rapes & caboches, ypared and icorue. Take an erthen panne with clene water & set it on the fire; cast alle thise therinne. Whan they buth boiled cast therto peeres, & parboile hem wel. Take alle thise thynges vp & lat it kele on a faire cloth. Do therto salt; whan it is colde, do hit in a vessel; take vyneger & powdour & safroun & do therto, & lat alle thise thynges lye therin al nyyt, other al day. Take wyne greke & hony, clarified togider; take lumbarde mustard & raisons coraunce, al hoole, & grynde powdour of canel, powdour douce & aneys hole, & fenell seed. Take alle thise thynges & cast togyder in a pot of erthe, & take therof whan thou wilt & serue forth." - -Curye on Inglish, p. 120-121 The following is a modified (but just as tasty) version of the medieval recipe, containing only the "pasternak" (carrots- from the botanical "pastinaca"), "caboches" (cabbage), "peeres" (pears) and "raisons of courace" (currants). The other medieval ingredients are "rote of persel" (parsley root), "rafens" (radishes), and "rapes" (white turnip). 2 lbs. carrots, sliced 1/2 head cabbage, in small pieces 3-4 pears, sliced thin 1 tsp. salt 6 tblsp. vinegar 2 tsp. ginger few threads saffron 1 bottle (750 ml.) white wine 1/2 c. honey 1 tblsp. mustard seed 3/4 c. currants 1 tsp. cinnamon 1/2 tblsp. each anise seed & fennel seed Boil the carrots and cabbage for several minutes, then add the pears. Cook until tender; drain well. Lay vegetables and pears in a large, flat, non-metallic dish. Sprinkle on the salt. Let cool, then sprinkle on the vinegar, ginger, and saffron. Cover with a cloth and let stand for several hours or overnight. When ready, mix the vegetables with the currants and the seeds. Place in a sealable container and set aside. In a separate pot, bring the honey, cinnamon, and wine to a boil, skimming off the scum until clear. Remove from heat and pour over the vegetable mixture. Let cool and seal. May be stored for a week or more. Serves 12 - - 15. Bibliography: Hieatt, Constance B. and Butler, Sharon. Curye on Inglish: English Culinary Manuscripts of the Fourteenth Century (Including the Forme of Cury). London: For the Early English Text Society by the Oxford University Press, 1985. From: "Philip W. Troy" Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 14:10:02 -0400 Subject: Re: SC - SC Pickels James L. Matterer wrote: > > Well, I've been making pickled dishes an integral part of every feast > I've done for the past several years. The most popular seems to be > English-style pickled eggs (which I usually make as part of a > Ploughman's Lunch, with pickled onions, bread, & cheese), but one of my > favorites is a dish called "Compost" which contains raisins, pears, > cabbage, walnuts, mustard seeds, anise seeds, white radishes... all > pickled together in white wine and honey. Here's the original recipe > with my redaction: I've loved this dish for several years. I'm interested in your mention of walnuts above. The source you cite doesn't mention them, but the recipe in Le Menagier for a similar dish does mention green, immature nuts, probably walnuts although no specific type is mentioned. I've tried this with immature almonds, which I can get at Middle Eastern markets near me about once a year. When cooked they resemble those large "Italian" string beans. > The following is a modified (but just as tasty) version of the > medieval recipe, containing only the "pasternak" (carrots- from the > botanical "pastinaca"), "caboches" (cabbage), "peeres" (pears) and > "raisons of courace" (currants). The other medieval ingredients are > "rote of persel" (parsley root), "rafens" (radishes), and "rapes" (white > turnip). Pretty similar to what I make. One trick I've been using is to put the mixture into sterile canning jars. You could argue that this defeats the period purpose of pickling, but it does prolong the shelf life by quite a bit, and any unopened jars can actually be saved for the next time you might want them (including another event, if you're of a mind). Actually, if sealed jars are refrigerated, the compost will keep for upwards of a year with no serious diminution of quality. This is a wonderful Pennsic food and is especially good with cold meats or sausage. Adamantius From: "Sue Wensel" Date: 22 Apr 1997 14:57:55 -0500 Subject: Re(2): SC - SC Pickels > > Compost > > redaction by Master Ian Damebrigge of Wychwood > > > 1 bottle (750 ml.) white wine > > > This sounds really good. Can anyone suggest something I could > substitute for the wine? (or am I out of luck on this one?) > > Claricia Nyetgale > Canton of Caldrithig > Barony of Skraeling Althing > Ealdormere (still mostly in the Middle Kingdom) Option 1: Try to get non-alcoholic white wine. Option 2: Increase the amount of vinegar and water to approximate the amount of white wine. I think the ratio may be 1 part vinegar to 3 (or 4?) parts of water. You may also need to increase the sugar to account for the increased tartness of the vinegar. Derdriu From: "James L. Matterer" Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 20:35:32 -0700 Subject: Re: Re(2): SC - SC Pickels > This sounds really good. Can anyone suggest something I could > substitute for the wine? (or am I out of luck on this one?) I would suggest using white grape juice that has been tempered with cider vinegar or malt vinegar - just enough to sour the juice and increase the acidity level to a close approximation of wine. Master Ian Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 02:11:30 -0400 From: Philip & Susan Troy Subject: Compost: was SC - bird or bay? It's a mixed pickle/chutney similar to Italian mustard fruits. Recipes for it appear in le Menagier and in the Forme of Cury. The French version calls for clove-and-ginger studded, immature nuts (probably walnuts, but possibly hazels or some other type) to be pickled, along with several other fruits and vegetables, each separately processed and added to the mixture when their peak harvest date arrives (How's that for thinking medievally, Aoife ; ) ) The English version is much more straightforward, with the various ingredients being parboiled, diced, salted overnight, and added to a hot vinegar pickle / honey-mustard syrup. As I say, I have a recipe for making something like 50 pounds or more of the stuff, and have not yet had the opportunity to reduce it to more managable quantities...unless... waitaminnit. Go to (those of you who can) these URL's: http://www.adelphi.edu/~sbloch/sca/cooking/ppb.html#compot and http://www.adelphi.edu/~sbloch/sca/cooking/twelfth.night.html#Sauseges The first URL has a recipe for a reasonable amount of compost made from green almonds, in a synthesis of the French and English versions. The second has a recipe for an ungodly huge amount of strictly English compost. You can ignore the accompanying sausage recipe, which isn't period anyway. Or not, as you wish. Adamantius Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 18:36:59 +1000 From: Robyn Probert Subject: Re: SC - Compost recipe Ras wrote: >Yep, it's mine. :-) Problem was I call it something else entirely in my modern >kitchen. :-) Sorry. The liquid measurements are accurate for the way I do it >because as the harvest season progresses I add more of the fruits and veggies >to it as the season progresses. I don't exactly know what the reduced amounts >of liquid would be. The consistency should be like a relish (maybe slightly >more liquidy so the main ingredients are submersed). Hope this helps. Here is a redaction of the same recipie from "The Medieval Cookbook" by Maggie Black, published by British Museum Press. This is a nice book which *does* include the original with the redaction. COMPOST 900g/2 lb mixed parsley roots, carrots, turnip and radishes 450g/1 lb white cabbage 450g/1 lb hard eating pears 6 Tbsp salt 1 Tsp ground ginger 1/2 Tsp saffron threads 2 cups white wine vinegar 50g/2oz currants 2 1/2 cups fruity white wine 6 Tbsp clear honey 1 Tsp french mustard 1/8 Tsp each cinnamon and pepper 1/4 Tsp each anise and fennel seed 50g/2oz white sugar Prepare the root vegetables and slice them thinly. Core and shred the cabbage. Put these vegetables into a large pan of water and bring slowly to the boil. Peel, core and cut up the pears and add them to the pan. Cook until they start to soften. Drain the contents of the pan and spread in a 5cm/2in layer in a shallow non-metallic dish. Sprinkle with the salt, saffron, ginger and 4 Tbsp of vinegar. Leave covered for 12 hours. Rinse well, then add the currants. Pack into sterilised storage jars, with at least 2.5cm/1in headspace. Put the wine and honey in a pan. Bring to simmering point and skim. Add the rest of the vinegar and all the remaining spices and sugar. Reduce the heat and stir without boiling until the sugar dissolves. Bring back to the boil. Pour over the vegetables, covering them with 1cm/ 1/2in linquid. Cover with vinegar proof seals and store. Rowan - ----------------------------------------------------------------- Robyn Probert Customer Service Manager Phone +61 2 9239 4999 Services Development Manager Fax +61 2 9221 8671 Lawpoint Pty Limited Sydney NSW Australia Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 09:03:06 -0400 From: Phil & Susan Troy Subject: Re: SC - pickled vegetables and fruits Stefan li Rous wrote: > Looking through the pickled-food-msg file in my Florilegium, I find that > a number of the recipes don't seem to name specific vegetables. However, > I did find the following ones mentioned: > > Lemons, oranges, raisins, pears, cabbage, walnuts, white radishes, > currants, carrots, turnips, mushrooms, onions, cucumbers, lentils, chard. > > Many of these appear to be a mix of vegetables at once called compost > and not just a single vegetable at a time. Well, you know, it's an interesting thing. There's an English recipe for compost in The Forme of Cury, which appears to make a product pretty similar to the pickled nut recipe in Le Menagier de Paris, except it uses a slightly smaller variety of fruits and vegetables, all more or less in season at the same time. The recipe in Le Menagier is, well, disguised, I think, as several recipes in sequence, but it is, I think, one long, complex recipe. How closely it is expected to be followed is in question, but basically the process seems to call for making a nut pickle, then when something else on the list, that is ready for harvest or market two weeks later, is available, it is cooked and added to the original pickle, and so on. It seems likely the pickle is stored in a stone crock with a lid, and items would be dipped out of it about as frequently as they are added, but as autumn progresses the variety of the pickle grows. And, BTW, this stuff really does keep well, especially refrigerated. Of course, before we worry too much about the fact that Le Menagier's bride wouldn't have had refrigeration, we should consider the effects of storing a wet pickle in a porous stone or earthenware jar in a larder or cellar, in autmn. Maybe not 35 - 40 degrees Fahrenheit, but possibly not too far from it, either. Adamantius Østgardr, East Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 15:33:35 -0600 From: Melissa Martines Subject: SC - Vegetable Names Help! I am trying to redact the following recipe for compost: Compost from Curye on Inglysch pp. 120-21 "Take rote of persel, of pasternak, of rafens, scrape hem and waishe hem clene. Take rapes and caboches, ypared and icone. Take an erthen panne with clene water and set it on the fire; cast alle thise perinne. When they both boiled cast therto peeres, and perboil hem well. Take alle thise thynges and lat it kele on a faire clothe. Do therto salt; when it is cold, do hit in a vessal; take vynegar and powdour and safroun and do therto, and lat alle thise thynges lye there all night, other all day. Take wyne greke and hony, clarified together; take lumbards mustard and raisouns coraunce. All hoole, and gryne powder of canel, powder douce and aneys hole and fennel seed. Take all thise thynges and cast togyder in a pot of erthe, and take therof when thou wilt and serve it forth. I have a redaction by a Master Iain, but he leaves out some of the ingredients, and I also don't agree with him on all his interpretations of what is what. If anyone has any documentation or educated guesses about what the following items are, please let me know. Thanks in advance!! Rote of persel Rafens Rapes Caboches Also, did we ever determine if raisin of courance were currents or raisins? Morgan MacBride Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 22:41:06 GMT From: kerric at pobox.alaska.net (Kerri Canepa) Subject: SC - Need help with "Compost" And I don't mean that stuff you put in your garden... I'm looking at Form of Cury and specifically at Compost. I'm having more trouble than I'd like figuring out the ingredients and cooking process. Here's the recipe as best that I can type it, considering I don't have the special characters or superscripts. Note: ? are the funny "p" character for the hard "th" sound, I'm guessing. Take rote of psel (parsley root?), pasternak of rasens (carrots? parsnips?), scrape hem and waisthe he clene, take rap (turnips) & caboch (cabbage) ypared and icorne. take an erthen pane w clene wat & set it on the fire. cast all ?ise ?inne. when ?ey buth boiled cast ?to peer (pears?) & pboile hem wel. take ?ise thyng up & lat it kele on a fair cloth, do ?to salt whan it is colde in a vessel tkae vineg (vinegar) & powdo & safron & do ?to, & lat all ?ise thing lye ?in al nyzt o? al day, take wyne greke and hony clarified togid lumbarde mustard &raisons corance al hoo. & gyne powdo of canel powdo douce & ancys (anise) hole. & fenell seed. take alle ?ise thing & cast togyd i apot of erthe. and tkae ?of whan ? wilt & sue forth. My guess is you take all the parsley root, carrots or parsnips, turnips and cabbage, chunk them up and boil them in water. Then I'm not so sure. Looks like pears are parboiled and added or just added and parboiled, the whole thing is taken out of the cooking water and let cool. When cool it's put back in a pan with salt, vinegar, and saffron where it's allowed to sit for a period of time. Then greek wine and clarified honey along with lombard mustard, dried currents, powdered cinnamon, powder douce, whole aniseed (?) and fennel seed are added. It's served at room temperature. Can anyone tell me if I'm on track or way out in left field? Anyone want to take a guess on Greek wine and Lombard mustard? Last question, it appears this is a "have it around just in case" dish; would it have been served at dinner? Kerri Cedrin Etainnighean, OL Date: Sat, 02 Oct 1999 03:13:14 EDT From: Korrin S DaArdain Subject: Re: SC - Need help with "Compost" On Fri, 01 Oct 1999 22:41:06 GMT kerric at pobox.alaska.net (Kerri Canepa) writes: >And I don't mean that stuff you put in your garden... > >I'm looking at Form of Cury and specifically at Compost. I'm having >more trouble >than I'd like figuring out the ingredients and cooking process. Here's >the ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Compost Forme of Cury 103. Copyright 1997 by L. J. Spencer, Jr. (a.k.a. Lord Ras al Zib) Posted by Lord Ras (LrdRas at aol.com). Reposted by Bronwynmgn (Bronwynmgn at aol.com) Take rote of parsel, of pasternak, rafens, scrape hem and waische hem clene. Take rapes & caboches, ypared and icorue. Take an erthen panne with clene water & set it on the fire; cast all (th)ise (th)erinne. When (th)ey buth boiled cast (th)erto peeres, & perboile hem wel. Take alle (th)ise thynges vp & lat it kele on a faire cloth. Do (th)erto salt; whan it is colde, do hit in a vessel; take vinegar & powdour & safroun & and do (th)erto, & lat alle (th)ise thynges lye (th)erin al ny(gh)t, o(th)er al day. Take wyne greke & honey, clarified togider; take lumbarde mustard & raisouns coraunce, al hoole, & gynde powdour of canel, powdour douce, anys hole, & fenell seed. Take alle (th)ise thynges & castt togyder in a pot of erthe, & take (th)erof whan (th)oui wilt & serue forth. There is a redaction in 'Pleyn Delit which, IMHO, deviates away from the original in very significant ways so I am not posting it. My translation and redaction follows: Take parsley root, parsnips, radishes, scrape them and wash them clean. Take turnips and cabbages, pared and cored. Take an earthen pan with clean water and set it on the fire; cast all this therein. When they both boiled cast therein pears, and parboil them well. Take all these things up and let it cool on a fair cloth. Do thereto salt; when it is cold, do it in a vessel; take vinegar and powder and saffron and do thereto, and let all these things lie therein all night, other(wise) all day. Take Greek wine and honey, clarified together; take Lumbard mustard and raisins of Corinth (currants ?), all whole, and grind powder of cinnamon, powder douce, anys whole, & fennel seed. Take alle these things and cast together in a pot of earth, & take thereof when thou wilt and serve it forth. 1/2 cup parsley root, peeled and diced 6 parsnips, peeled and diced 1 medium black radish, peeled and diced 1 lb. turnips, peeled and diced 1 gallon cabbage, cored and chopped 2 quarts winter pears, peeled, cored and chopped Salt 1 bottle Retsina (Greek wine) 2 cups honey 2 quarts cider vinegar ........................................ Powder: 1 cup sugar 1 Tbs. ground cloves 1 Tbs. ground cinnamon 2 Tbs. ground ginger) ........................................ 1 tsp. saffron 1/2 cup ground white mustard (the supermarket variety) 1 lb. dried currants 1 tsp. cinnamon ....................................... Powder douce: 1 cup sugar 1 tsp. ground cloves 2 tsp. ground cinnamon 2 tsp. ground ginger 1 Tbs. ground cubebs (opt.) 2 tsp. ground galingal (opt.) 1 Tbs. grains of Paradise (opt.) ........................................ 1 tsp. aniseed 1 tsp. fennel seed Place parsley root, parsnips, radishes, turnips and cabbage in a non-reactive kettle (e.g. enamel, glass, or Teflon. Cover with water. Bring to a boil. Add pears. Reduce heat to medium and cook until pears are barely tender. Drain; spread on a cloth. Sprinkle with a substantial amount of salt and leave until cold. While mixture is cooling, bring wine and honey to a boil, removing the scum as needed. When the scum stops rising remove from heat. Put cooled cabbage mixture into a non-reactive kettle. Add vinegar, powder and saffron. Let sit in a cool place for 12 hours. Add remaining ingredients to the wine/honey mixture, stirring well to make sure that the sugar is dissolved. Add wine/honey spice mixture to cabbage/pear mixture and blend carefully. Store in a cool place and use as needed. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Compost From Hieatt, Constance B. and Butler, Sharon. Curye on Inglish: English Culinary Manuscripts of the Fourteenth Century (Including the Forme of Cury). London: For the Early English Text Society by the Oxford University Press, 1985. Redaction by Master Ian Damebrigge of Wychwood. Posted by James L. Matterer (jmattere at weir.net) Curye on Inglish, p. 120-121: "Take rote of persel, of pasternak, of rafens, scape hem and waische hem clene. Take rapes & caboches, ypared and icorue. Take an erthen panne with clene water & set it on the fire; cast alle thise therinne. Whan they buth boiled cast therto peeres, & parboile hem wel. Take alle thise thynges vp & lat it kele on a faire cloth. Do therto salt; whan it is colde, do hit in a vessel; take vyneger & powdour & safroun & do therto, & lat alle thise thynges lye therin al nyyt, other al day. Take wyne greke & hony, clarified togider; take lumbarde mustard & raisons coraunce, al hoole, & grynde powdour of canel, powdour douce & aneys hole, & fenell seed. Take alle thise thynges & cast togyder in a pot of erthe, & take therof whan thou wilt & serue forth." The following is a modified (but just as tasty) version of the medieval recipe, containing only the "pasternak" (carrots- from the botanical "pastinaca"), "caboches" (cabbage), "peeres" (pears) and "raisons of courace" (currants). The other medieval ingredients are "rote of persel" (parsley root), "rafens" (radishes), and "rapes" (white turnip). 2 lbs. carrots, sliced 1/2 head cabbage, in small pieces 3-4 pears, sliced thin 1 tsp. salt 6 tblsp. vinegar 2 tsp. ginger few threads saffron 1 bottle (750 ml.) white wine 1/2 c. honey 1 tblsp. mustard seed 3/4 c. currants 1 tsp. cinnamon 1/2 tblsp. each anise seed & fennel seed Boil the carrots and cabbage for several minutes, then add the pears. Cook until tender; drain well. Lay vegetables and pears in a large, flat, non-metallic dish. Sprinkle on the salt. Let cool, then sprinkle on the vinegar, ginger, and saffron. Cover with a cloth and let stand for several hours or overnight. When ready, mix the vegetables with the currants and the seeds. Place in a sealable container and set aside. In a separate pot, bring the honey, cinnamon, and wine to a boil, skimming off the scum until clear. Remove from heat and pour over the vegetable mixture. Let cool and seal. May be stored for a week or more. Serves 12. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Korrin S. DaArdain Kitchen Steward of Household Port Karr Kingdom of An Tir in the Society for Creative Anachronism. Korrin.DaArdain at Juno.com Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 17:41:19 EDT From: LrdRas at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - Need help with "Compost" korrin.daardain at juno.com writes: << 3/4 c. currants >> The currants specified in the recipe are NOT regular currants (Ribes) but rather Zante raisins, otherwise known as raisins of Corinth (raysons of courance). They are marketed in grocery stores as 'Dried Currants-Zante' or some such. Their flavor is distinctively different from the acidic fruit of the genus Ribes. Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 21:51:31 -0500 From: Christine A Seelye-King Subject: Re: SC - "Old Food" Stefan li Rous writes: > Christianna commented: > > Then there's the compost we made last November... [ie: Over a year old -Stefan] > > I, for one, would be interested in hearing how well the compost > has held up or tastes when you get around to trying it. The reports > that I have in the Florilegium on composts have been from folks who > ate it much sooner than this. Well, it has held up its original flavor pretty well. I actually think that it was not crisp enough at the beginning, but it certainly isn't anything like mush now, just not what I'd want from pickles. My lord has been eating it right along, and feels that it is getting better as it ages. He is gone for one more week (I feel like I'm the only person in the Nation waiting for Christmas Day to actually start Christmas) and I will have him taste-test it when he gets home and give you a report. I have kept pickled vegetables (both home-made and commercial) for years, in fact my roommate and I had the most intense pickle experience either one of us has ever had, with a whole, Kosher Vlassic Dill with garlic. It was slap-your-mama good, we both stood in the kitchen and made hooting noises for about 5 minutes. It was the last one left in the jar, and had been sitting in the refrigerator for years. It was just a shame that it was the last one left. Christianna Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 07:07:29 -0400 From: Philip & Susan Troy Subject: Re: SC - 12th C Irish Feast- Notes and recipes Compost is a mixed pickle, usually, but not always, made from mixed fruits, vegetables, and sometimes immature nuts, usually in a sauce made from honey, white wine, vinegar, mustard and other spices. Think of Italian mustard-fruits. Recipes for this, or something similar to it, occur in Apicius and several 14th-century English, French, and German sources, among others. Adamantius Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 06:53:04 EDT From: ChannonM at aol.com Subject: SC - Re: sca-cooks V1 #2090 << The feast sounds fabulous....but I have one concern regarding the third dish in the second course....How long had this been sitting around? Balthazar of Blackmoor >> I preserved it using modern canning methods, I'm not worried about it's shelf life if that's what you mean. If you are playing with the name then, here see for yourself the recipe and know that eventually, you can add it to your garden if you like! :) Compost Curye on Inglish, p. 120-121 "Take rote of persel, of pasternak, of rafens, scape hem and waischehem clene. Take rapes & caboches, ypared and icorue. Take an erthenpanne with clene water & set it on the fire; cast alle thise therinne.Whan they buth boiled cast therto peeres, & parboile hem wel. Take alle thise thynges vp & lat it kele on a faire cloth. Do therto salt; whan itis colde, do hit in a vessel; take vyneger & powdour & safroun & dotherto, & lat alle thise thynges lye therin al nyyt, other al day. Takewyne greke & hony, clarified togider; take lumbarde mustard & raisonscoraunce, al hoole, & grynde powdour of canel, powdour douce & aneyshole, & fenell seed. Take alle thise thynges & cast togyder in a pot oferthe, & take therof whan thou wilt & serue forth."- - My own composition of 'Compost' was devised based on the original recipes, however I considered the location and incorporated a more Irish flavour by using a honey mead and a cider vinegar in the pickle. Compost in Ireland 1 .50 lb carrots .50 lb parsley root 1 lb turnips .50 of white cabbage Soaking brine .25 cup sea salt .5 cups cider vinegar Pickle 1 quart --mead 1 cup honey 1 Tbsp crushed mustard seed 1 tsp anise seed 2 tsp fennel seed Peel wash and core vegetables. Slice thinly. Place in non reactive container and add the soaking brine. Let sit overnight or several hours. Mix mead, honey and spices. Bring the pickle to a boil and add vegetables. Put vegetables in sterilized jars and pour over hot pickle juice. Seal and store in a cool place. Makes about 6 pints. Hauviette Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 13:29:19 -0400 From: Elaine Koogler Subject: Re: SC - Re: sca-cooks V1 #2090 ChannonM at aol.com wrote: > << The feast sounds fabulous....but I have one concern regarding the third > dish in the second course....How long had this been sitting around? > > Balthazar of Blackmoor > >> > I preserved it using modern canning methods, I'm not worried about it's shelf > life if that's what you mean. > > If you are playing with the name then, here see for yourself the recipe and > know that eventually, you can add it to your garden if you like! :) > > Compost > Curye on Inglish, p. 120-121 > "Take rote of persel, of pasternak, of rafens, scape hem and waischehem > clene. Take rapes & caboches, ypared and icorue. Take an erthenpanne with > clene water & set it on the fire; cast alle thise therinne.Whan they buth > boiled cast therto peeres, & parboile hem wel. Take alle thise thynges vp & > lat it kele on a faire cloth. Do therto salt; whan itis colde, do hit in a > vessel; take vyneger & powdour & safroun & dotherto, & lat alle thise thynges > lye therin al nyyt, other al day. Takewyne greke & hony, clarified togider; > take lumbarde mustard & raisonscoraunce, al hoole, & grynde powdour of canel, > powdour douce & aneyshole, & fenell seed. Take alle thise thynges & cast > togyder in a pot oferthe, & take therof whan thou wilt & serue forth."- - > > My own composition of 'Compost' was devised based on the original recipes, > however I considered the location and incorporated a more Irish flavour by > using a honey mead and a cider vinegar in the pickle. > Hauviette I have redacted the same recipe, but came up with something a little different... (makes about 4 cups) 6 radishes 4 cabbage leaves 1 parsnip 2 turnips 1 pear 1 tsp. salt 1 1/2 C. red wine vinegar 1/2 tsp. pepper 1 pinch saffron 1 1/2 C. Sweet Wine 4 tbsp. honey 1/2 tsp. Cinnamon (Marsala) 1 tsp. fresh ginger root 1/4 tsp. mace 1/4 tsp. cloves finely diced 1/2 tsp. fennel seed 1/4 cup currants 1 T. Lumbard Mustard (made from another recipe) 1/2 tsp. whole anise seed 1. Chop root veggies and pear into chunks, cabbage into 2" strips. 2. Parboil root vegetables and cabbage in water until almost tender 3. Add pear to vegetables and continue parboiling until tender. Drain & cool. 4. Marinate in a cool place overnight. Drain liquid from mixture. 5. Heat wine and honey together until clarified. 6. Add spices and currants to wine/honey mixture, mix thoroughly, then cool. 7. Gently mix with vegetable/fruit mixture. Store, refrigerated, then serve chilled. Notes: 1. Recipe calls for "wyne greke" or Greek Wine, which the glossary in Curye on Inglysch defines as "...a sweet type of wine which actually came from Italy..." Marsala fit this description nicely. 2. I omitted the parsley root as it was unavailable at the time. 3. I define "poudre" here to mean pepper. 4. The "...lumbarde mustard..." is taken from another recipe in Forme of Curye. 5. I have found numerous descriptions of "powdre douce" which vary widely, often containing sugar, cinnamon, ginger, mace and cloves. I have omitted the sugar as I feel the dish is sweet enough with the honey and sweet wine. I have also used fresh ginger as has Terence Scully in his Early French Cooking in recipes which call for this mixture. I also believe that it adds more to the sweet-sour contrast that was popular in this period. So you see, mine is a different...but yours is so much simpler. The result of what I did is, as noted by others, similar to a chutney. Kiri From: Philip Troy To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] COMPOST Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 00:59:05 -0400 On Monday 22 October 2001 12:00, Mark.S Harris wrote: > On the other hand, I'm now familar with compost having even made > some myself. But what are "Italian mustard-fruits"? And are they > period? There's an Italian preparation nearly identical to compost made and sold commercially under a name that translates into English as Mustard Fruits (more or less). I seem to recall small baby pears being involved, maybe grapes, etc.., all in a sort of honey-mustard sauce. Adamantius Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 17:14:32 -0400 From: Elaine Koogler To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Please post:::Compost?? Here is the recipe I used for a Coronation a couple of years ago. Everyone turned up their noses at the name, not to mention when I described the ingredients. But once it was made, it was VERY popular!! I hope you enjoy it: 103. Compost. Take rote of persel, of pasternak, of rafens, scrape hem andwaische hem clene. Take rapes and caboches, ypared and icorue. Take an erthenpanne with clene water & set it on the fire; cast alle thise therinne. Whan they buth boiled cast thereto peeres, & perboile hem wel. Take all thise thynges upand lat it kele on a faire cloth. Do thereto salt; whan it is colde, do hit in avessel; take vyneger & powdour & safroun & & do thereto, & lat alle thise thyngeslye therein al nyght, other al day. Take wyne greke and hony, clarified togider;take lumbarde mustard & raisouns coraunce, al hoole, & trynde powdour of canel,powdour douce & aneys hole, & fenell seed. Take alle thise thynges & cast togyderin a pot of erthe, & take thereof whan thou wilt & serue forthe. 103. Compost. Take parsley root, parsnips, radish, scrape them and wash themclean. Take turnips and cabbages, pared and cleaned. Take an pottery pan withclean water and set it on the fire. Put all of these in the pot. . When theyhave boiled, add pears and parboil them well. Take all these things up and let itcool on a fair cloth. Add salt; when it is cold, put it in a vessel; take vinegarand poudre and saffron and add it, and let all these things lie therein all nightor all day. Take Greek wine (sweet) and honey, clarified together; take Lumbardmustard and currents all whole, and grind cinnamon, poudre douce and anise wholeand fennel seed. Take all these things and cast together in an earthen pot andtake thereof when you will and serve it forth. (Forme of Cury from Curye onInglysch) Redaction: (Makes about 4 cups) 6 radishes 4 T. Honey 4 cabbage leaves 1/2 tsp. Cinnamon 1 parsnip 1 tsp. fresh ginger root, diced finely 2 turnips 1/4 tsp. mace 1 pear 1/4 tsp. cloves 1 tsp. Salt 1/2 tsp. fennel seed 1 1/2 C. red wine vinegar 1/4 cup currants 1/2 tsp. Pepper 1 Tbsp. Lumbard mustard 1 pinch saffron 1/2 tsp whole anise seed 1 1/2 C. Sweet wine (Marsala) 1. Parboil root vegetables, cabbage in water until almost tender 2. Add to vegetables and continue parboiling until tender. Drain and cool. 3. Marinate in a cool place overnight. Then drain liquid from mixture 4. Heat wine and honey together until clarified. 5. Add to wine/honey mixture, mix thoroughly, then cool. 6. Gently mix with vegetable/fruit mixture. Store, refrigerated, then serve chilled. Notes: 1. Recipe calls for =93wyne greke=94 or Greek Wine, which the glossary in Curye onInglysch defines as =93=85a sweet type of wine which actually came from Italy=85=94Marsala seemed to fit this description nicely. However, upon researching theissue further (i.e., asking this list), I discovered that Marsala isn't period, soI would try to find a sweet Greek wine to use. 2. I omitted the parsley root, as it was unavailable in the small town where I live, but I understand that it is available elsewhere. 3. I define =93poudre=94 here to mean pepper. 4. The =93=85lumbarde mustard=85=94 is taken from a recipe further on in Forme of Cury, which I have redacted below. 5. I have found numerous descriptions of =93powdour douce=94 which vary widely, often containing sugar, cinnamon, ginger, mace and cloves. I have omitted the sugar as I feel it is sweet enough with the honey and sweet wine. I have also used fresh ginger, as have the authors of Early French Cooking (Terence Scully) and To the King's Taste (Lorna J. Sass) in other recipes which called for powdour douce. I believe that it adds more to the sweet-sour contrast that was so popular in this period. Kiri From: "Vincent Cuenca" To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 23:04:28 +0000 Subject: [Sca-cooks] New compost recipe (long) Ya know, I had mentioned that I was fooling around with compost, but I never actually posted the recipe. The original is from a 1947 article by Faraudo de Saint-Germain entitled "Llibre de Totes Maneres de Confits: Un Tratado cuatrocentista de Dulceria". Most of the article is a transcription of the manuscript, which dates to 1380 or thereabouts. The transcription can also be found on Thomas Gloning's website. Here's the original: CAPITOL .XVIJ.e PER FER LA RASEPTA DE LA COMPOSTA DE L AXEROP E DELS CONFITS Resepta per fer lo axerop per .xvij. llr. de confits compres en aquesta manera, so es, .j.a llr. de prunes seques e .j.a llr. e mige de orallanes e .j.a llr. de panses e mige liura de rave galesch e .xiij. llr. de tots confits sens axerop, pendrets les cosses saguents. Primerament pendreu .ij. dines de mostalla fina molta e destrempar l eu ab vinagre un poch e un poch de vin grech solament per trempar lo vinagre e fer l eu estar .ij. o .iij. jorns axi. Apres pendreu los confits e metreu los en una ger[r]a o holla e fareu .j. onz. de canyella fina picada e ben pessada; metreu primer un poch de canyella dins la ger[r]a e apres un sostro de tots confits e altre de canyella fins tots los confits sien composts ab la dita canyella, e estigua axi compost .ij. o .iij. jorns. Apres pendreu tots los axerops dels dits confits e metreu ho tot dins un perol e dar li eu un perel de buyls. E ab un altro peroll metreu la dita mostalla detras dita axi com s esta, e aureu una liura e mige de rop e un diner de vi de megranes e .ij. tasses de clareya o .iiij. dines de pimentes si de la dita clarea no podeu aver, e mige tassa de grech fi e les espisies saguents ben picades e ben pessades ab un sedas, so es, .j.a oz. canyella e .j.a oz. gingebre, e .iiij. dines de flor de massis, e .iiij. dines de nous noscades, e .iiij. dines girofla, e .vj. diners sandils blanchs, e .ij. dines de sandils vermeyls, e .iiij. dines de grana e mescla ho <<114>>tot be. E, com sera tot be mesclat, pendreu l autre perol ab la mel bulenta e metreu ho tot mesclant be dins l autro perol on son les dites espicies, e axi calt lansar [h]o eu dins la ger[r]a o olla sobre los dits confits. Here's my translation: Chapter Seventeen To Prepare the Recipe for Compot of Syrup and Confits A recipe to make the syrup for seventeen pounds of mixed confits in this manner, which is: one pound of dried plums and one and a half pounds of hazelnuts and a pound of raisins and half a pound of horseradish and thirteen pounds of all confits without syrup, taking the following things. Firstly take two dineros of fine ground mustard and temper it with a little vinegar and a little Greek wine just to temper the vinegar and let it rest thus two or three days. Afterwards take the confits and put them in an amphora or pot and prepare an ounce of fine cinnamon ground and well sifted; add first a little cinnamon to the amphora and then a layer of all the confits and another of cinnamon until all the confits are all together with the aforementioned cinnamon, and they should rest all together for two or three days. Afterwards take all the syrups from the aforementioned confits and put them all in a pot and boil them a couple of times. And in another pot add the aforementioned mustard just as it is, and add a pound and a half of grape syrup and a dinero of pomegranate wine and two cupfuls of clary or four dineros of spices if the aforementioned clary is not available, and half a cupful of fine Greek {wine} and the following spices, well ground and passed carefully through a sieve, which are: one ounce of cinnamon and an ounce of ginger, and four dineros of mace, and four dineros of nutmeg, and four dineros of cloves, and six dineros of white sandalwood, and two dineros of red sandalwood, and four dineros of grains of paradise and mix them all well. And, being all well mixed, take the other pot with the boiling honey and add it all to the other pot where the other spices are, mixing it well, and once it is cool toss it all in the amphora or pot over the aforementioned confits. So as not to overload the list, I'll post my version of the recipe later. I had to fudge some, as this recipe seems to involve mixing other preserved fruits and vegetables rather than working from scratch. I've borrowed from the Menagier and the Forme of Cury recipes as far as the mix of ingredients, and used this one for spicing and so forth. Any input you can provide would be most appreciated. Vicente Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 16:56:06 -0500 From: johnna holloway To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] New compost recipe (long) Actually OED lists it as: compost compost ko.mpost, sb.1 Also (sense 3) 6 compest. [a. OFr. compost, cumpost:-L. compositum later compostum) neuter of pa. pple.: see compost pa. pple. ] 1. A composition, combination, compound. b. A literary composition, compendium. 2. Cookery. == compote. Obs. a. A stew of various ingredients. C. 1420 Liber Cocorum (1862) 18 For to make a compost [with chickens, herbs, spices, etc.]. b. spec. A preparation of fruit or spice preserved in wine, sugar, vinegar, or the like. C. 1430 Two Cookery-bks. (1888) 59 Le ij cours, Compost, Brode canelle, Potage. C. 1450 Two Cookery-bks. 87 Peris in compost, take pere Wardones..pare hem, and seth hem..and cast hem to the Syryppe..And then pare clene rasinges of ginger..and caste hem to the peres in composte. 1513 Bk. Keruynge in Babees Bk. (1868) 268 Loke your composte be fayre and clene. 1601 Holland Pliny II. 159 White oliues..before they be put vp in their compost or pickle. 3. A mixture of various ingredients for fertilizing or enriching land, a prepared manure or mould. MED (Middle English Dictionary) lists: compost(e (n.) [OF; cp. F compote.] (a) A mixture of stewed fruit and/or vegetables; a preserve; in compost, stewed or preserved; (b) a stew. (a) (a1399) Form Cury (Add 5016) p.49: Compost. Take rote of persel, pasternak..rapes & caboches. c1450 Hrl.Cook.Bk.(2) (Hrl 4016) 87: Peris in compost. Take Wyne, canell, Sugur..dates..pere Wardones..cast hem to the Syryppe..with Gynger..ley hem in clarefied hony. a1475 Russell Bk.Nurt.(Hrl 4011) 79: Aftur mete ..blawnderelles, pepyns, careawey in comfyte, Compostes ar like to =FEese. c1475 Gregory's Chron.(Eg 1995) 141: Datys in composte. (b) a1450 Hrl.Cook.Bk.(1) (Hrl 279) 59: Le ij cours: Compost..Codlyng. a1475 Liber Cocorum (Sln 1986) p.18: For to make a compost. Take =FEo chekyns and hew hom..chekyns =FEou put =FEerto, And =FEen of =FEe herbz ..And tendurly seyth hit. ?a1475 Noble Bk.Cook.(Hlk 674) 111: To mak composte tak chekins and..saige, parsly, lekes..and boille it. a1486(c1429) Menu Banquet Hen.VI in Archaeol.57 (Mrg M 775) 58: Le iij Course: Compost..Venison rost, Egrettz. Johnnae llyn Lewis Johnna Holloway From: "Vincent Cuenca" To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 15:58:03 +0000 Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Compost recipe Muirdeach scripsit: >In the original language, you use "Composta", then in your translation you >use "compot". Neither of those ring like Compost to me. Compost and >compote are two different things... Or am I completely out the left field? Actually, no you're not. Compot is the term used in the Menagier de Paris for a mixed pickle of nuts, vegetables, and so forth. IIRC, a similar mixed pickle appears in Forme of Cury under the name Compost. Since "compost" to most folks means that smoking pile of vegetable gunk crazy Aunt Ella keeps in the garden, and "compote" means gently cooked mixed fruit, I used compot. I may be completely wacked out, but it seems to me that the various names (composta, compost, compot) seem to have the same root as "compose", possibly "componere" or something like that. Basically, "to put (things) together". Ergo, a compot, or composta, is "(things) put together", in this case, pickled in vinegar, wine, and syrup. I've had some aging in my refrigerator for a week, and it's dandy stuff. Here's my version, which is an amalgam of the Menagier, Forme of Cury and Confits recipes. 1/2 head Savoy cabbage 3 small turnips, peeled 4 medium carrots, peeled 5 parsnips, peeled and cored 1 small fennel root, cored 4 Bosc pears, peeled and cored 1 cup (approximately) raisins 1 cup prunes 1/2 cup hazelnuts 1 T prepared Dijon mustard 1 bottle white wine 1 1/2 cups cider vinegar 1/2 cup honey 1/2 cup grape molasses (betmez) 1/4 cup pomegranate molasses 1 t ginger 1 t cinnamon 1/4 t mace 1/4 t nutmeg 1/4 t cloves 1/4 t grains of paradise 1/4 t red sandalwood Chop the cabbage, dice the other vegetables and fruits except for the raisins. Cook gently in salted water until tender but still firm. Leave out the dried fruit. Drain, and put into broad roasting pan or dish and allow to cool. Grind spices finely and mix together. In a pot, add wine, honey, vinegar, and fruit molasses and bring to a boil. Remove from heat, then add the spices and the mustard. Transfer the vegetables to a large container, stir in the raisins and chopped prunes, and pour the hot liquid over them. The fruit will plump up as it ages. It's good after a couple of days, even better after a week. I served some at one of the two Thanksgiving dinners I went to, and people were scarfing it down like there was no tomorrow. Boy that makes me feel good! Vicente Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 20:02:33 -0500 From: Philip & Susan Troy To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] New compost recipe (long) Nicolas Steenhout wrote: > Compost: An organic material used in gardening, made of all kind of > rotten materials. com-POST, n., [OFr. composte, compote, condiment, pickle < L. compositus; see COMPOSITE], 1. a composition; compound. 2. a mixture of decomposing vegetable refuse, manure, etc., for fertilizing the soil. > Compote: Usualy fruits cooked slowly with a sweetener added. (though it > can be done with onions and such :-) ) com-POTE, n., [F., see COMPOST] It's probably worth noting that the first version, spoken in French, would end up with either a silent or absent "s", as in hospital/hopital, hostel/hotel, etc. They are pretty obviously the same word. The fact that American gardeners are unaware of the etymology really changes nothing. Adamantius From: "Terry Decker" To: Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] New compost recipe (long) Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 21:08:08 -0600 I believe your compositus should be compositum. "Compositum" is the neuter past participle of "componere." "Composita" is the feminine past participle of "componere." According to the quick ref, both appear as "composte" in Old French and "compote" in Middle English; however, Johnna's reference to the Middle English Dictionary reverses these. It may be that the type of mixture is originally defined by gender and required the use of two related words in English, which is essentially genderless. Bear >Compost: [English word, from ancient french Compost, from the latin >compositus]. Mixture of dirt, organic garbage and lie, which transform >itself little by little into dirt. > >Compote: [from Latin composita, from componere, to put together] Fruits, >whole or cut in parts, cooked with sugar. > >Gorgeous Muiredach Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 21:23:06 -0600 To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org From: Gorgeous Muiredach Subject: Definitions (was Re: [Sca-cooks] New compost recipe (long)) >I believe your compositus should be compositum. My 5 years of Latin in high school being really way forgotten, you might be very right Bear. In this case though, and I just checked, I merely typed what I found in the dictionary... :-) Gorgeous Muiredach Rokkehealden Shire Middle Kingdom Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 10:18:52 -0400 From: Daniel Myers Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Sca-cooks Help with documenting pickles To: Cooks within the SCA On Saturday, July 12, 2003, at 11:09 AM, UrthMomma at aol.com wrote: Well, the recipe for "Compost" [Curye on Inglish, Constance B. Hieatt & Sharon Butler (eds.)] is sort of a pickled vegetable recipe. There are a bunch of related recipes from the 13th and 14th centuries. The version I've done is a bunch of parboiled root vegetables, salted and mixed with wine, vinegar, and honey. My version, along with the source, is online at - http://www.medievalcookery.com/recipes/compost.html - Doc -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edouard Halidai (Daniel Myers) http://www.medievalcookery.com/ Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:16:22 -0400 From: Daniel Myers Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Getting the most use out of a particular food To: Cooks within the SCA On Monday, July 21, 2003, at 11:11 AM, wrote: I should have said garden compost to distinguish it from the edible compost! No I gotta ask! Eidble compost?!?!? Yup. It's a sort of pickled root vegetable recipe, and probably is the origin of the modern word "compote". Source [Curye on Inglish, Constance B. Hieatt & Sharon Butler (eds.)]: 103 Compost. Take rote of persel, of pasternak, of rafens, scrape hem and waische hem clene. Take rapes & caboches, ypared and icorue. Take an erthen panne with clene water & set it on the fire; cast alle þise þerinne. Whan þey buth boiled cast þereto peeres, & perboile hem wel. Take alle þise thynges vp & lat it kele on a faire cloth. Do þereto salt; whan it is colde, do hit in a vessel; take vyneger & powdour & safroun & do þerto, & lat alle þise thynges lye þerin al nyght, oþer al day. Take wyne greke & hony, clarified togider; take lumbarde mustard & raisouns coraunce, al hoole, & grynde powdour of canel, powdour douce & aneys hole, & fenell seed. Take alle þise thynges & cast togyder in a pot of erthe, & take þereof whan þou wilt & serue forthe. There are many redactions of this recipe available online - mine can be found at http://www.medievalcookery.com/recipes/compost.html - Doc -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edouard Halidai (Daniel Myers) http://www.medievalcookery.com/ Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:21:49 -0500 From: "Decker, Terry D." Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Getting the most use out of a particular food To: "'sca-cooks at ansteorra.org'" "compost" is Old French for "mixture" and does not specify of what the mixture consists. In Medieval cookbooks, compost normally refers to a mixture of fruits or vegetables in a pickle or syrup. This usage of compost has since evolved into compote. Bear Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 14:09:57 -0700 From: lilinah at earthlink.net Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Getting the most use out of a particular food To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Compost - the sweetened, pickled, spiced, preserved mixture of vegetables, fruit, and nuts - is both English and French - and there'a a simpler German version as well - from the 14th and 15th centuries. My version is here: http://witch.drak.net/lilinah/compost.html I arrived at my recipe by comparing original recipes in Form of Curye and Le Menagier and with much assistance from a number of people on this very list. It was a lot of work, but, then, i made a tad over 2 gallons of it. The hardest part was paring and cutting up all 15 pounds of the vegetables all alone. If you have even one person helping, that will make it easier and much more pleasant. None of it is difficult, it just takes several days to make and occupies some space in the kitchen. Anahita Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 14:56:10 -0400 From: johnna holloway Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Compost (no, not the garden stuff!) To: Cooks within the SCA I turned these up during a quick search this afternoon. 87. Perys in Composte is inOrdinance of Pottage, p.65. xxxv. Perys en Composte is in Harl. 279 Austin Two 15th...pp.12-13 Peris in compost is in Har. 4016 Austin Two 15th...pp.87-88 103. Compost. Forme of Cury. Hieatt edition, pp.120-21. Peres in Composte. is in Napier p.100. I's also in Pynson's This is the Boke of Cokery from 1500. To mak Compost [which is "chekins" dish] is in Napier p.111. It's also in Pynson's This is the Boke of Cokery, 1500. (LCC includes a "For to make a Compote" which also contains chickens. You migh ask Cindy R. about what she has found in the LCC.) I came across a reference in Austin to Douce MS., no 57 which I don't find at the moment, so I suspect the entry may be wrong or it may be included as a supplement to Pegge. OED includes the Compote inentry 2. as compote. Obs. and defines it as "a. A stew of various ingredients." with this defination being given circa 1420 Liber Cocorum (1862) 18 For to make a compost [with chickens, herbs, spices, etc.]. Then it says: spec. A preparation of fruit or sice preserved in wine, sugar, vinegar, or the like. circa 1430 Two Cookery-bks. (1888) 59 Le ij cours, Compost, Brode canelle, Potage. circa. 1450 Two Cookery-bks. 87 Peris in compost, take pere Wardones..pare hem, and seth hem..and cast hem to the Syrypp..And then pare clene rasinges of ginger..and caste hem to the peres in composte. 1513 Bk. Keruynge in Babees Bk. (1868) 268 Loke your composte be fayre and clene. 1601 Holland Pliny II. 159 White oliues..before they be put vp in their compost or pickle. Compote compote ko.mpo ut. meaning a. Fruit preserved in syrup. with this quotation-- 1693 Evelyn De La Quint. Compl. Gard. I. 91 marg., Compote, fruit stew'd in Sugar, after a manner peculiar to the French. Which is rather late to my way of thinking. Th Middle English Dictionary is the place to look-- compost(e (n.)[OF; cp. F compote.] "(a) A mixture of stewed fruit and/or vegetables; a preserve; in compost, stewed or preserved; (b) a stew. (a) (a1399) Form Cury (Add 5016) p.49: Compost. Take roteof persel, pasternak..rapes & caboches. c1450 Hrl.Cook.Bk.(2) (Hrl 4016) 87: Peris in compost. Take Wyne, canell, Sugur..dates..pere Wardones..cast hem to the Syryppe..with Gynger..ley hem in clarefied hony. a1475 Russell Bk.Nurt.(Hrl 4011) 79: Aftr mete..blawnderelles, pepyns, careawey in comfyte, Compostes ar like to þese. c1475 Gregory's Chron.(Eg 1995) 141: Datys in composte. (b) a1450 Hrl.Cook.Bk.(1) (Hrl 279) 59: Le ij cours: Compost..Codlyng. a1475 Liber Cocorum (Sln 1986) p.18: For to make a compost. Take þo chekyns and hew hom..chekyns þou put þerto, And þen of þe herbz..And tendurly seyth hit. ?a1475 Noble Bk.Cook.(Hlk 674) 111: To mak composte tak chekins and..saige, parsly, lekes..and boille it. a1486(c1429) Menu Baquet Hen.VI in Archaeol.57 (Mrg M 775) 58: Le iij Course: Compost..Venison rost, Egrettz. ------------ The Apician recipe may be the one for How to Preserve Fresh Figs, and Apples, Plums, Pears, and Cherries. Gather them carefully with their stalks an put them in honey, so that they do not touch each other. First Book. sect XII recipe 4. page 53 of the Flower and Rosenbaum edition The Roman Cookery Book. That's the closest that I could find which would be a fruit in honey at its most basic. Johnnae llyn Lewis Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 20:51:31 -0700 From: "Patricia Collum" Subject: [Sca-cooks] Compost recipe (no, not the garden stuff!) To: "Cooks within the SCA" It just so happened that I made composte for the first time for the event this weekend. It was supposed to be for Selene's vigil but I got my nights confused, so it ended up being added to the luncheon the next day. It went over quite well. The recipe I used was based on: Compost from Curye on Inglysch pp. 120-21 "Take rote of persel, of pasternak, of rafens, scrape hem and waishe hem clene. Take rapes and caboches, ypared and icone. Take an erthen panne with clene water and set it on the fire; cast alle thise perinne. When they both boiled cast therto peeres, and perboil hem well. Take alle thise thynges and lat it kele on a faire clothe. Do therto salt; when it is cold, do hit in a vessal; take vynegar and powdour and safroun and do therto, and lat alle thise thynges lye there all night, other all day. Take wyne greke and hony, clarified together; take lumbards mustard and raisouns coraunce. All hoole, and gryne powder of canel, powder douce and aneys hole and fennel seed. Take all thise thynges and cast togyder in a pot of erthe, and take therof when thou wilt and serve it forth." -as posted in the composte message files at Stephan's Florilegium. Some of the choices I made were to use what I had on hand, as in the cooking wines and vinegars. I couldn't find my saffron (pesky stuff), and I added carrots instead of celery root, so that there would be a recognizeable root veggie. The lumbard mustard would be a honey mustard in period, so I used an imported german one. Here is my recipe: 1/2 lb. pkg. baby carrots 2 bunches radishes, trimmed and larger ones cut in half crosswise 2 large parsnips, peeled and cut in 1/2 inch slices 2 medium turnips, peeled and cut into 1 inch chuncks 1/3 small head of cabbage, sliced thin 1 1/2 cups white cooking wine 1/2 cup cooking sherry 1/2 cup honey 1 cup dried currants 1 Tbsp cinnamon 1 tsp cloves, fresh ground from whole 1 1/2 tsp nutmeg 1 1/2 tsp ginger 1 tsp mace 1/2 tsp cardamom 1/4 cup honey mustard 1 tsp salt 1 1/2 cup white wine vinegar 1/2 cup red wine vinegar 2 -15 ounce cans lite sliced pears, drained and cut in 1 inch chunks 1 Tbsp whole anise seeds 1 Tbsp whole fennel seeds In a large kettle, bring the carrots, radishes, parsnips and turnips to a boil and boil til just crisp tender (about 10 mins), add the cabbage and boil for about 5 more minutes. Remove from heat, drain and pour vegetables into a large bowl and set aside to cool. In a small pan, combine wines, honey, spices and currants and heat on medium heat, stirring, until the honey clears and the currants have plumped some. Remove from the heat and add the mustard vinegars and salt. Add the pears and seeds to the cooled vegetables and gently stir them in. Pour the wine/ currant mixture over the vegetables and pears and gently stir. Gently press the vegetables into the mixture, cover with plastic wrap and refrigerate for 3-5 days to allow flavors to develope. Stir the mixture each day and recover. Then serve it forth! Cecily Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 01:04:42 -0400 From: ranvaig at columbus.rr.com Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Compost recipe (no, not the garden stuff!) To: > 1/3 small head of cabbage, sliced thin I'm not sure if it would be period or not, but when I made this, I used red cabbage. The color made the whole dish a lovely bright pink. Ranvaig Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 16:48:49 -0600 From: Robert Downie Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Pictures from my Illusion Feast To: Cooks within the SCA Susan Fox-Davis wrote: >> I loved the way the compost turned out, that's one recipe I'll >> definitely be doing again - eve if it's just for me! >> > Recipe please? > > Selene I sent out the whole pamphlet-that-never-was (sigh, it would have been nice to have them ready for the Event) a couple of days ago, but here's the compost recipe by itself:: Faerisa Compost of Pastenak and of Peeres - Forme of Cury: See original at http://www.godecookery.com/alabama/alabam01.html#compost Gode Cookery translation: Pickled Salad. Take parsley, carrots, radishes; scrape and clean them. Take white radishes & cabbages, pared and core. Take an earthen pan with clean water & set it on the fire; and put all these in. When they've boiled, add pears and parboil well. Take all these things out and let cool on a clean cloth. Add salt. When cooled, place in a container; add vinegar, powder and saffron, and let sit overnight. Take Greek wine & honey, clarified together; take "lumbarde" mustard and whole currants, and cinnamon, "powdour douce" & whole anise seed, & fennel seed. Take all these things and place together in an earthen pot, and take from it when you need to, and serve. Modern recipe: 2 lb. carrots, peeled and chopped into medium sized pieces 3-4 pears, peeled, cored and chopped into medium sized pieces 1 1/2 heads cabbage 1 tsp. sal 1 cup white wine vinegar 1 Tbs. ground ginger 1/2 Tbs. each anise seed & fennel seed 1 1/2 quart white wine 1/2 cup honey 1/2 Tbs. mustard seed 3 cinnamon sticks Boil the carrots for several minutes, then add the pears, cook a little more, then add the cabbage. Cook until tender; drain well. Lay carrots and pears on a clean cloth. Sprinkle on the salt. Let cool, then place in a large dish or container; sprinkle on the ginger & saffron then pour the vinegar over all. Cover (the cloth works fine for this) and let stand for several hours or overnight. Mix the compost with the seeds, place in a non-metallic container that can be sealed, then set aside. In a separate pot, bring the honey, cinnamon, and wine to a boil, skimming off any scum until clear. Remove the cinnamon sticks and pour the liquid over the compost mixture. Let cool and seal. May be stored for a week or more. Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 12:33:26 EST From: Bronwynmgn at aol.com Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Pictures from my Illusion Feast To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org karobert at unm.edu writes: <> We've quite sucessfully used the Forme of Cury compost recipe on several occasions - turnips, pears, radishes, and I forget what else pickled in a sauce with Greek wine in it. It goes over especially well at summer events, but Jadwiga has recntly asked me to make her a batch for an event in April, for the dayboard. Like most veggies, those who like it will eat a lot, and there will also be those who won't even taste it. Brangwayna Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 07:45:50 EST From: Bronwynmgn at aol.com Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Compost To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org ranvaig at columbus.rr.com writes: <> I chop it up to the same size I'd do salad pieces today - small enough to fit several pieces easily in your mouth. I *hate* it when someone gives me a salad with pieces of lettuce so big I have to cut them up to get them in my mouth (the only exception to that being lettuce hearts); in my opinion, lettuce leaves and other veggies in salads should arrive at your table without needing further cutting! Brangwayna Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 00:25:48 -0400 From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" Subject: [Sca-cooks] Evil Science Projects: Good News/Bad News To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Hullo, the list-- The bad news is that I discovered the hard way, in the middle of making a very mundane meatloaf sandwich, that someone had ingeniously removed all the mayonnaise from the jar in the fridge with the exception of a layer 1/128th of an inch thick lining the inside. After a moderately rough day and the realization that I didn't feel like cooking anything real or making real mayonnaise, with Spouse and Evil Spawn already in bed, I began to root around for alternatives. The good news is that I discovered the last (already opened) jar of Green Almond Compost (a synthesis of the Forme of Cury and Menagier recipes). The bad news is that I now find, after checking various forms of documentation, since the jar is unlabeled, that this is the last of a batch made in June of 1995. The good news is that it went quite well on a meatloaf sandwich. The flavors are a little less bright than I remember them, but textures were essentially good, with just a bit too much of the liquid having either evaporated or absorbed by the solids, but it worked out pretty well when I chopped a spoonful of the stuff finely, the way you sometimes have to with the larger-cut Major Grey's Mango Chutney. I'm posting this now so that, if I post an update in the morning, you'll all know I lived through the night ;-) Adamantius Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 08:32:34 -0400 From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] Evil Science Projects: Good News/Bad News To: Cooks within the SCA Also sprach Sebastian Manetti: >> Ummmmmm.....I hate to ask, but, as it sounds fascinating, do you >> happen to have the recipe for your synthesis available to share????/ > > Assuming he survived the night of course ... > -Sebastian WE REGRET TO INFORM YOU THAT... uh... I'm fine. The pickle is, well, a little strange in texture, as older pickles tend to be, and there's been some degradation of the aromatic stuff in it. But it tasted fine, all things considered. I'm not arguing that we have not clearly passed the expiration date on this product: it's close to ten years old. Nevertheless, it's a pretty amazing testament to the power of a honey/vinegar/wine/salt pickle. For those interested in trying this stuff in its green, non-vintage state (wussies!), here's a link to what is as close to a recipe as I've got: http://www.ostgardr.org/cooking/ppb.html#compot We could probably synthesize a more formal-recipe-format if needed... Adamantius Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 08:51:00 -0400 From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] Evil Science Projects: Good News/Bad News To: Cooks within the SCA Also sprach Laura C. Minnick: > At 05:23 AM 10/13/2004, you wrote: >>> >>> I'm posting this now so that, if I post an update in the morning, >>> you'll all know I lived through the night ;-) >>> >>> Adamantius >> >> Dude, >> Don't do it!!! The last time I thought to myself 'I'll risk it - it'll >> be fine' was some pickled lotus root I added to a thai curry. I threw >> up so hard that I hemorrhaged in my eyes, I coughed up pick foamy sputum >> (from hemorrhages in my throat), had petechiae all over my face and I >> found out later that I cracked a rib... >> >> It's not worth it... >> >> Drakey. > > Oh gawd... leave it Drakey to have some suitable gross story, just > to start my day off right. ;-D) At least no body parts were sawed > off in the process, eh? I was gonna say something like, Well, Drakey, after all, this _IS_ Drakey we're speaking of. But he's perfectly right. I can only assume that I was extremely lucky, or that there's something about the respective pickling processes that made the results different. But then, I'm also a firm believer in stacking the deck against misfortune, and in so doing, making your own luck. The seal on the jar was good, not eaten by the various acids, the solids, mostly, were cut up fairly small for better penetration of the pickle, and there was no rush of gas from the jar, no sliminess, and no weird smells. Botulism seemed virtually impossible, due to the pH. I felt a reasonable justification for a certain degree of confidence. I wouldn't recommend anyone else do this. Adamantius Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 08:05:41 -0400 From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] canning compost To: Cooks within the SCA On Jun 15, 2005, at 1:57 AM, Stefan li Rous wrote: > Doc commented: >> On a related note, I've been considering canning "compost" for this >> Pennsic. Anyone done that - or just canned turnips? Most cookbooks >> and such recommend against caning turnips. > > So, why are you wanting to can the compost? Medieval compost was a > pickled food item and the reason for this was to preserve the > vegetables and fruits. So, why can't you do it the same way? Well, I'm a little leery of the word "can't" in this context, but pickling is intended to preserve food against pathogens, and even the best of pickling methods doesn't always preserve food in its best condition for very long under the wrong conditions. So, for example, y'ever take a bite of a dill pickle that has been out of refrigeration for a while (say, a few weeks) and found it to be less than crispy, and sort of waxy-textured? This is why the best dill pickles (commercial ones, anyway) are still sold under refrigeration, even though it's perfectly safe to eat them when they've been unrefrigerated for a while. I've canned compost a couple of times, and commented once or twice on its apparently amazing keeping qualities. I STR there being a thread on this list about whether I would die if I ae some compost from an opened jar that had been in my fridge for several years and still smelled and looked okay (I didn't die, BTW). >> I've got a *lot* of experimenting to do before August. > > Perhaps some of the comments from others who have mde this, and > various period recipes, might give you a head start. > > compost-msg (72K) 3/ 7/05 A pickled food of fruits and > vegetables. > http://www.florilegium.org/files/FOOD/compost-msg.html I checked the links listed in the Florithingy page, and some of them (the Adelphi University links) may be outdated: the article which includes some commentary on a feast-sized batch of compost (80 or 90 pounds of the English version without the nuts) is now here: http://www.ostgardr.org/cooking/twelfthnight.html#Sauseges , and the one with nuts (made in much smaller quantity) is here: http://www.ostgardr.org/cooking/ppb.html#compot For what it's worth, the best composts I've had (and this may be as much a matter of personal preference as of qualit control) had the ingredients cut pretty small (no more than 1/2 to 3/4 inch cubes), with relatively little liquid, and the liquid fairly thick, somewhere between heavy syrup and honey in density/viscosity. Adamantius Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 10:49:20 -0400 From: Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] canning compost To: Cooks within the SCA > So, why are you wanting to can the compost? Medieval compost was a > pickled food item and the reason for this was to preserve the > vegetables and fruits. So, why can't you do it the same way? You can, but you have to keep it cool for our food safety standards. If you make compost and can it, though, it can be stored in your cupboard, if the canning is successful. -- -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne at fiedlerfamily.net Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 13:09:31 -0400 From: "RUTH EARLAND" Subject: [Sca-cooks] Pickling turnips To: There are 2 reasons some sources advise against pickling turnips. One is that they grow underground and are very likely to harbor pathgenic bacteria. Sure, you're going to peel them, but you also have to be really sure there are no cracks in the vegetables. It isn't unusual to buy pickled turnips in an Asian or Middle Eastern market and bring them home only to find that they've gone off. The second is that as a low acidity vegetable, They need to be canned under pressure. Berelinde Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 22:13:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Huette von Ahrens Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Introductions.. And Meat Pies To: Cooks within the SCA > I believe that somewhere along the line, the meaning of the word > compost shifted to its current gardening-related sense, and an > offshoot (compote) took over its food related niche. > > - Doc Actually, according to the Oxford English Dictionary, compost as the garden supplement came first, with compost as the cooking term coming about two hundred years later. Huette Compost, n. 2. Cookery. = COMPOTE. Obs. a. A stew of various ingredients. c1420 Liber Cocorum (1862) 18 For to make a compost [with chickens, herbs, spices, etc.]. b. spec. A preparation of fruit or spice preserved in wine, sugar, vinegar, or the like. c1430 Two Cookery-bks. (1888) 59 Le ij cours, Compost, Brode canelle, Potage. c1450 Ibid. 87 Peris in compost, take pere Wardones..pare hem, and seth hem..and cast hem to the Syryppe..And then pare clene rasinges of ginger..and caste hem to the peres in composte. 1513 Bk. Keruynge in Babees Bk. (1868) 268 Loke your composte be fayre and clene. 1601 HOLLAND Pliny II. 159 White oliues..before they be put vp in their compost or pickle. 3. A mixture of various ingredients for fertilizing or enriching land, a prepared manure or mould. Also composs, COMPASS n.2. [1258 Charter St. Albans Abbey in M. Paris (Rolls) V. 668 Cum composto..ad prædictum manerium meliorandum.] 1587 HARRISON England III. viii. (1878) II. 54 That ground will serve well, and without compest for barleie. 1589 PUTTENHAM Eng. Poesie III. xxv. (Arb.) 309 The good gardiner seasons his soyle by sundrie sorts of compost: as mucke or marle, clay or sande..bloud, or lees of oyle or wine. 1602 SHAKES. Ham. III. iv. 151 Do not spred the Compost o[e]r the Weedes, To make them ranke. 1626 BACON Sylva §597. 1693 EVELYN De la Quint. Compl. Gard. Gloss., Compost, is rich made Mold, compounded with choice Mold, rotten Dung, and other enriching ingredients. 1784 COWPER Task III. 637 Turn the clod, and wheel the compost home. 1813 BINGLEY Anim. Biog. (ed. 4) III. 70 The neighbouring farmers made them [herrings] up into composts, and manured their ground with them. 1861 DELAMER Fl. Gard. 30 The soil for hyacinths is a compost..consisting of light loam, leaf-mould, river-sand, and well-rotted dung. Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 03:02:50 -0400 From: "RUTH EARLAND" Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Pickling Turnips (long and slightly evasive) To: Christianna wrote: > > I have a hard time understanding the bit about underground pathogens, > since > pickled beet roots are a long-standing tradition. Beets are likewise a > low-acidity vegetable, thus the pickling liquids being acidic. What > sources > are we talking about? Modern canning recommendations? > Just curious, > Christianna Please excuse my incomplete response. The statements I made were based on modern canning recommendations and apply to canned unpickled vegetables. Botulism is the big culprit. The excrement of the botulism toxin is one of the most lethal compounds known to man, and cooking the canned food after the toxin is present does not make it less harmful. The bacteria responsible resides in the ground and, in a normal aerobic environment, lives its life in peaceful anomynity. When it attempts to survive in an anaerobic environment, such as olive oil or canned food, it produces the botulism toxin. That, by the way, is why you should never steep herbs or garlic in cold olive oil. Vinegar is safe, but see below. The acidity of the pickling solution is of critical importance here. If you are canning turnips in an acidic solution, like beets, if the acidity was sufficient, the chances of contaminated pickles would be slight. Often, though, turnips are pickled in a less acidic solution than beets, so care must be taken to be sure the pickles are safe. Compost is often not particularly acidic, so I would be cautious. Sugar and salt do retard the growth of bacteria, but not as effectively as vinegar. The integrity of the vegetable or fruit is also an issue. If the skin is broken, the interior of the vegetable has been exposed to pathogens. Which is why preserving instructions, modern or period, often call for peeled, unblemished (and often cooked) fruit/vegetables. According to the canning recommendations of my aunt, who might not be THE authority on unusual pickles, but used to can everything that wasn't still breathing, low acidity fruits and vegetables, anything containing animal protein (she canned spaghetti sauce with meat), or anything she wasn't sure of should be canned under pressure in a pressure cooker. If you've been canning pickled turnips successfully for years, there's no reason to think your process is wrong. I've never canned anything besides grape jelly, dill pickles, and bread and butter pickles, so I admit I'm no authority on the process at all. Having said that, there are 3 canning methods that I know: cold pack (uncooked food, no pressure), hot pack (cooked food, no pressure), pressure (self-explanatory). I do not offer any opinion on which is the correct method to use. I simply encourage you to read up on canning before deciding which is best for the food you want to can. Out of curiosity, has anyone ever tasted the contents of a bulging can or one that has bubbled or squirted on opening? (I really hope the answer to this is 'no') Berelinde Cynewulfdohtor Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 14:05:40 -0400 From: Daniel Myers Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] canning compost To: jenne at fiedlerfamily.net, Cooks within the SCA On Jul 16, 2005, at 9:46 PM, Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise wrote: > Adamantius, can you take the time to give us your thoughts on canning > compost? We are thinking of doing a batch this summer/fall for Handy > Period Sidedish Supplies... Don't know about Adamantius' experiences with canning the stuff, but I tried a batch last week and it seems to have gone well. I cut the vegetables into small pieces - about 3/8" thick - and cooked them briefly (not sure of the purpose of this, but the instructions for canning carrots said to do this). Then I salted the veggies, packed them into the jars, and poured the vinegar/honey/wine/ spice mixture (heated) in. I put the closed jars into a pressure canner and processed them for 35 minutes. I was a bit worried that the canning would leave the carrots mushy, but they still kept enough of their firmness to be pleasant. The bit that I had left over was ok, but the can I opened up a few days later was excellent. The canning process helped to mix the flavors and infuse them completely through the veggies. I'm going to add some canning notes to the recipe on my site - as you said, having this stuff canned is incredibly handy. - Doc -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edouard Halidai (Daniel Myers) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 10:20:05 -0400 From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" Subject: [Sca-cooks] My two cents on canning compost... To: Cooks within the SCA Jadwiga asked a while back about canning compost, because I mentioned having done so. All I've done is what I believe is called open-kettle canning, bringing the mixture to a good boil and ladling it into sterilized jars and sealing it while hot, because the mixture is rather acidic and the batch was small. It seems to have worked out just fine, and as I've mentioned elsewhere, some of this batch was still edible after close to ten years. I'm sure pressure canning would be safer, and I wouldn't bet on the stuff being good for years and years -- all I can say is the above worked fine for me on that occasion. I think maybe any concerns about pressure canning leading to an overcooked, mushy product might not be taking into account the inherent water loss if the mixture is properly salted and pickled. Adamantius Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 17:10:56 -0800 From: lilinah at earthlink.net To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] compost Theadora wrote: <<< I made some based on recipes posted on the net. Should it be sweeter or a bit sour? >>> Hard to say. My time machine isn't working :-( I think it should be both sweet and sour, as well as a little hot and a little spicy, what with the Lombard mustard and all the added spices. <<< I couldn't use all wine- too much $ so used half white wine vinegar and half sweet white wine, with honey. >>> When i made a couple gallons of the stuff, i used cheap sweet white wine. It was affordable. I was worried about quality, but cheap stuff was fine. Susan Lin queried: <<< Okay - I'm thoroughly confused - I saw compost and just assumed you were talking about fertilizer. Please explain, what is this "compost" of which you speak? >>> It is a pickle that is both sweet and sour made of a variety of fruits and vegetables (and sometimes young walnuts before the shell hardens, if one can find them). It was used as a condiment with meat, i believe. I think of it as a sort of Medieval chutney. Recipes appear in a number of cookbooks. Le Menagier's recipe must be started about 6 months before it will be used with those baby walnuts picked around Summer Solstice. I made the one from Forme of Curye for my first feast. Recipe 103 Take rote of parsel, of pasternak, of rafens, scrape hem and waische hem clene. Take rapes & caboches, ypared and icorue. Take an erthen panne with clene water & set it on the fire; cast all (th)ise (th)erinne. When (th)ey buth boiled cast (th)erto peeres, & perboile hem wel. Take alle (th)ise thynges vp & lat it kele on a faire cloth. Do (th)erto salt; whan it is colde, do hit in a vessel; take vinegar & powdour & safroun & and do (th)erto, & lat alle (th)ise thynges lye (th)erin al ny(gh)t, o(th)er al day. Take wyne greke & honey, clarified togider; take lumbarde mustard & raisouns coraunce, al hoole, & grynde powdour of canel, powdour douce, anys hole, & fenell seed. Take alle (th)ise thynges & castt togyder in a pot of erthe, & take (th)erof whan (th)ou wilt & serue forth. My Modern Transcription Take root of parsley, of parsnip, of radishes, scrape them and wash them clean. Take white turnips & cabbages, pared and cored. Take a ceramic pan with clean water & set it on the fire; cast all these therein. When they have boiled cast thereto pears, & parboil them well. Take all these things up & let it cool on a clean cloth. Do thereto salt; when it is cold, put it in a vessel; take vinegar & [spice] powder & saffron & and do thereto, & let all these things lie therein all night, or all day. Take Greek wine [i.e., sweet white wine, NOT retsina] & honey, clarified together; take Lombard mustard & raisins of Corinth [i.e., dried currants, which are actually small raisins], all whole, & grind powder of cinnamon, sweet powder, whole anise, & fennel seed. Take all these things & cast together in a ceramic pot, & take thereof when thou wilt & serve forth. My recipe for 2 gallons of compost is on my website : http://home.earthlink.net/~al-tabbakhah/2000_Boar_Hunt/2000-0c-compost.html I'm planning on making a bunch of quart jars of the stuff this year and canning them properly. I thought it was so tasty and i'm looking forward to having some throughout 2010, as well as gifting some. -- Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM) the persona formerly known as Anahita Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 17:32:17 -0800 From: lilinah at earthlink.net To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] compost Daniel Myer's website, Medieval Cookery, lists the following 6 compost recipes. All are webbed on his site. -- COMPOST (Forme of Cury) (England, 1390) -- Compast (Fourme of Curye [Rylands MS 7]) (England, 1390) -- Liber cure cocorum (England, 1430) -- THIS IS THE WAY TO MAKE COMPOTE (Le Menagier de Paris) (France, 1393) -- To mak compost (A Noble Boke off Cookry) (England, 1468) -- Compost (pickle) good and perfect (Libro di cucina / Libro per cuoco) (Venice, late 14th or early 15th c.) The page that lists them and links to them is: http://www.medievalcookery.com/cgi/display.pl?lcc:36 -- Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM) the persona formerly known as Anahita Edited by Mark S. Harris compost-msg 36 of 36