canning-msg - 6/17/09 Use of canning in the SCA. Directions. Canning is a modern food process unknown within period. However, is a method that allows the same transport of food items to SCA events. NOTE: See also the files: drying-foods-msg, food-storage-msg, campfood-msg, fruits-msg, vegetables-msg, pickled-foods-msg, potted-foods-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 08:26:40 -0500 From: L Herr-Gelatt and J R Gelatt Subject: SC - Re: sca-cooks V1 #216 >From: rebecca tants >Subject: Re: SC - Re: Pears > >> Anyhow, many many years ago, I made this recipe and canned the pears for a >> camping event. Even though the event was sparsely attended, I ran out of > >Ok - pardon my ignorance here, but how did you can them? the whole "put >them in ball jars and immerse in boiling water thing? or some other method? >(mom served frozen dinners a lot and while my cooking is significantly >better, i've made one marmalade so far and that's it for non-frozen preserved >food) > Raudh Bell jars, seals (lids), hot water bath. You sterilize the jars and lids/rings by boiling them. Turn 'em upside down to drain on a sterile towel. One by one use a well padded mitt or tongs to turn up the jars, fill, wipe the rim clean, put on a lid and ring, and put back in the water. Leave as little air as possible.Do not completely tighten the rings. You want a loose but leak-free seal. Boil them for about 10 minutes. Then remove from the bath.Tighten the rings. Turn upside down for a few minutes to destroy any bacteria that might have adhered to the lids. Turn right side up, and let cool. You've been successful if the lids "pop" inwards, making a vacuum seal. Handle these puppies with special tools or have a series of thick oven mitts, since the mitts are useless when wet. Aoife Date: 30 Jul 1997 08:57:01 -0700 From: "Marisa Herzog" Subject: SC - canning Bell jars, seals (lids), hot water bath. You sterilize the jars and mitts, since the mitts are useless when wet. In doing canning of jams with my mother- somewhere along the line she stopped messing with the boiling water... if you have two people and a bunch of oven mits/pot holders, and what you are canning is going in near boiling hot, the first person fills the jars and the second person quickly (and carefully) puts the lids on and flips the jars upside down. About 10 minutes later flip them back right side up and the seal has been made. It of course won't work if what you are putting into the cans is not in the molten lava state of jams/jellies/sauces- but works quite well if you are. Lay out a towel to work on- that way drips can just be thrown in the wash, and your table has some insullation, and it does take a little agility! - -brid Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 11:07:15 -0500 From: mfgunter at tddeng00.fnts.com (Michael F. Gunter) Subject: Re: SC - canning > In doing canning of jams with my mother. > It of course won't work if > what you are putting into the cans is not in the molten lava state of > jams/jellies/sauces- but works quite well if you are. > -brid I've been interested in canning for a long time but I've never had anyone show me how. One question, when I've gotten homemade jams from friends the jams have a wax seal under the lid. Is this step necessary? I would love to can stuff for later in the year or for feasts in the future, I've just been chicken to try. Yers, Gunthar Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 12:15:33 -0400 From: Philip & Susan Troy Subject: Re: SC - canning Marisa Herzog wrote: > In doing canning of jams with my mother- somewhere along the line she stopped > messing with the boiling water... if you have two people and a bunch of oven > mits/pot holders, and what you are canning is going in near boiling hot, the > first person fills the jars and the second person quickly (and carefully) puts > the lids on and flips the jars upside down. About 10 minutes later flip them > back right side up and the seal has been made. It of course won't work if > what you are putting into the cans is not in the molten lava state of > jams/jellies/sauces- but works quite well if you are. Lay out a towel to work > on- that way drips can just be thrown in the wash, and your table has some > insullation, and it does take a little agility! > -brid I'm inclined to agree, in theory. This is probably one of those techniques that will work 99.99999% of the time, but then fail miserably .00000001 (please forgive if I include the wrong number of zeroes) percent of the time. Since there are people who can things like beef stew, and failure could mean fatalities under those circumstances, if I were only going to teach or recommend one method, I'd recommend the textbook method Lady Aoife employs. On the other hand, it's probably harmless for marmalade, which is why I usually do it myself that way. I just felt a distinction needed to be made... Adamantius Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 12:36:59 -0400 From: Philip & Susan Troy Subject: Re: SC - canning Michael F. Gunter wrote: > I've been interested in canning for a long time but I've never had anyone show > me how. One question, when I've gotten homemade jams from friends the jams > have a wax seal under the lid. Is this step necessary? The wax seal seems to be a traditional way of sealing and expelling the air before the use of vacuum-sealed (Ball, etc.) jars came into widespread use. It might be a case of someone forgetting why it is there and assuming it was still essential. Or, I could be talking through my hat, which sometimes happens too. > I would love to can stuff for later in the year or for feasts in the future, > I've just been chicken to try. There are plenty of books devoted to the entire spectrum of food preservation, and, for the generalist, there's always "The Joy of Cooking", although I understand the newest edition is going to be a pretty, like, Wild and Crazy 90's cookbook, so the section may suffer from Irrelevance. The books I'm thinking of are Jocasta Inness' "The Country Kitchen", and there's one called "Putting Food By", whose author I forget. And don't forget the Usenet Newsgroup rec.food.preserving as a resource for specific questions that might not be addressed by other books. Being in the pursuit of keeping food from poisoning you, the folks there are generally a responsible and well-informed. For what it's worth, and I mention this mostly as a curiosity, it is illegal in New York City, my home town, to sell home-canned food in restaurants. So, while the chef in a NYC restaurant may make all manner of preserves, pickles, and chutneys, they cannot be canned prior to sale in a restaurant, either in or out of the canning jar. I realize that other municipalities, counties, or whatever, may have health codes that differ, but I thought it might have legal ramifications worth looking into locally. I hope this doesn't create another thread like the one about alcohol... Tentatively, Adamantius Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 12:51:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Schuldenfrei Subject: Re: SC - canning The wax seal seems to be a traditional way of sealing and expelling the air before the use of vacuum-sealed (Ball, etc.) jars came into widespread use. It might be a case of someone forgetting why it is there and assuming it was still essential. Or, I could be talking through my hat, which sometimes happens too. I know the US Government has many handouts on how to can, safely. Probably as a throwback to the WWII era. Ask your state of federal Agricultural representative. Tibor Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 22:43:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Uduido at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - canning In a message dated 97-07-30 15:26:20 EDT, Master Adamantius wrote: << Since there are people who can things like beef stew, and failure could mean fatalities under those circumstances, if I were only going to teach or recommend one method, I'd recommend the textbook method Lady Aoife employs.>> I apologize for "correcting" you somewhat, m'lord. But I can all the time and the textbook method recommended by Lady Aoife. although fine for acid fruits like tomatoes, peaches, etc., or for jams and jellies, it should NEVER be used for canning vegetables or , especially meat! I have 3 dozen jars of vegetables and soups, stewa, lamb, chicken, beef, pork that I am bringing to War. When canning those items the ONLY SAFE way is to pressure can meats and items with meat in them for 90 minutes at 10 lbs. pressure. Vegetables are pressure canned for 30-45 mins. at 10 lbs. pressure. Some of the nasty pathonegenic germs can only be killed by the intense pressure and heat generated by this method. Another way is to process meats for 3 hrs. in a boiling water bath and vegetables and fruits that are non-acid for 90 mins. in a boiling water bath. Although I use this method rarely, it was de rigour before pressure canners became available. Thirdly, only use wax on jams, jellies and marmelade. Finally, if you use a pressure canner NEVER turn your jars upside down. Such action can and does produce explosions in the jars. Simply putting your lids in hot water for several minutes before applying them to the jar will sterilize them sufficiently. <> In the marmalade assessment your are indeed correct. :-) Lord Ras ( who if he wasn't up to his ears in hot water probably is now. :-0) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 12:54:20 -0700 From: kat Subject: SC - RE: canning/wax seals Raudh originally asked: Ok - pardon my ignorance here, but how did you can them? the whole "put them in ball jars and immerse in boiling water thing? or some other method? and, to someone's response, Brid added: Bell jars, seals (lids), hot water bath. In doing canning of jams with my mother- somewhere along the line she stopped messing with the boiling water... Actually (isn't it funny how everything comes back to: "Well, MY mom always...") my parents never used a hot-water bath for jams and jellies; they used the wax seal method instead. The lid and ring were placed on after the jar was cool, and did not seal. If you make the paraffin at least 3/4" thick, then ants can't smell through it and therefore won't chew through it; and your jellies (devoid of any oxygen interactivity) will keep indefinitely. The trick: The insides of the jar MUST be completely clean above the top of the jelly. Food particles or grease will ruin the wax seal. I don't know if they found this easier than using the hot-water bath; or if they just did it because that's how THEIR parents did it... I suppose I should ask someday... Adamantius added, There are plenty of books devoted to the entire spectrum of food preservation, and there's one called "Putting Food By", whose author I forget. I'm tempted to say Kurt Saxon but I'll probably be wrong.... - kat Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 14:58:31 -0700 From: Lark Miller Subject: Re: SC - canning No, the wax is not needed if they are using a canning lid. The little disk that fits on the jar before the actual lid is screwed on. Like Brid says though, you must put the lid on as soon as the jelly/jam etc. is in the jar. (If you get surejell for your jellies they give you directions for cold pack as well as the hot pack). you can can other things... I can peaches and pears. I just cut up the fruit into the sterilized jar and add a 1/2 to 3/4 cup sugar and add water to fill up the jar to about an 1/8 of an inch from the top of the jar. Put the tops and lids on and then I put the jars in a boiling water bath for 1/2 hour. Take them out and let them cool. You will hear them popping and that is the sound of them sealing. Place them in your cabinet and let them be until you want to eat them. I still have some peaches I canned in 1992 in the garage. I keep forgetting about them. But I pull out a jar every so often and they taste great. You can hot pack tomato sauce and picante sauce too. Lucilla Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 16:22:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Schuldenfrei Subject: Re: SC - RE: canning/wax seals Adamantius mentioned: There are plenty of books devoted to the entire spectrum of food preservation, and there's one called "Putting Food By", whose author I forget. Let's hear 3 cheers for the Library of Congress! Putting food by Janet Greene, Ruth Hertzberg, Beatrice Vaughan. New York : Dutton, [1991] vi, 420 p. : ill. ; 24 cm. Reprint. Originally published: Brattleboro, Vt. : S. Greene Press, 1973. "A Janet Greene book." Includes bibliographical references (p. 395-404) and index. Call Number LCCN Dewey Decimal ISBN/ISSN TX601 .H54 1991 91000179 //r91 641.4 0525933425 Tibor Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 15:26:04 -0700 From: Lark Miller Subject: Re: SC - canning Most of the better cookbooks available today give directions for canning. They also list what types of food are best for canning certain ways. Beef Stew would be one that they would not recommend for hot packing. But, jams, jellies, tomato sauces and picante sauces can all be hot packed. Look in the cookbook and find out how they can the different kinds of foods and follow those directions. Lucilla Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 15:05:44 -0600 (MDT) From: "Jamey R. Lathrop" Subject: Re: SC - canning, very serious > In doing canning of jams with my mother- somewhere along the line she stopped > messing with the boiling water... if you have two people and a bunch of oven > mits/pot holders, and what you are canning is going in near boiling hot, the > first person fills the jars and the second person quickly (and carefully) puts > the lids on and flips the jars upside down. About 10 minutes later flip them > back right side up and the seal has been made. It of course won't work if > what you are putting into the cans is not in the molten lava state of > jams/jellies/sauces- but works quite well if you are. Lay out a towel to work > on- that way drips can just be thrown in the wash, and your table has some > insullation, and it does take a little agility! > -brid It's important to note that the USDA no longer recognizes the open kettle method of canning (putting extremely hot food into a very hot jar and hoping for a good seal) as safe!!!! Yes, I realize that our grandmothers and mothers canned many jams and jellies that way, and most of us have probably eaten them and lived to tell about it, but please don't do it. Acid foods need to be processed in a boiling water bath, and low acid foods must be pressure canned to ensure their safety. The best place for someone interested in canning to start reading is the Ball Blue Book or the Kerr Home Canning and Freezing Guide. One or both of these should be readily available at your local Wal-Mart next to the canning supplies (I know that there's also an order form for the Kerr book in a box of jars, on the outside of the box containing the lids and rings). Ball and Kerr are the major manufacturers of the mason-type jars and they are well acquainted with the CURRENTLY APPROVED safe canning methods. Get a _NEW_ copy and familiarize yourself thoroughly with the instructions for the type of canning you're interested in. I have both of the books and recommend having both, if possible. Then, you can look at some of the older cookbooks (and new ones who downplay or ignore the current safe canning guidelines) and, in the case of many recipes, determine the proper processing times for your product at your altitude. As for the wax seals, that is an older method intended to keep both bugs and air out. Theoretically, one could then cover the jar with waxed paper or some other thing to keep the jars dust free. It's no longer recommended, although I do understand that homemade jellies, which have a shorter shelf-life and good-taste-life, are sometimes topped off with a waxed disk and then IMMEDIATELY stored in the refrigerator since they will be consumed in a relatively short period of time. All this said, not that long ago I ALSO was "chicken" to try some home canning, but now understand it and enjoy it. It can be intimidating at first, but give it a try and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. Since many fruits have been at their peak, my husband and I have been canning some exotic jams and jellies and are getting a head start on our Christmas gift baskets for this year! Allegra Beati (paranoid and neurotic as usual-- I'll stick with the USDA on this one!) jlathrop at unm.edu Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 23:15:27 -0700 (PDT) From: rousseau at scn.org (Anne-Marie Rousseau) Subject: Re: SC - RE: canning/wax seals Tibor tells us about:> >Putting food by > Janet Greene, Ruth Hertzberg, Beatrice Vaughan. > New York : Dutton, [1991] I highly recommend this book. - --Anne-Marie, multiple blue ribbon winner for her pickles, jams, salsas and canned fruits. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Anne-Marie Rousseau rousseau at scn.org Seattle, Washington Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 19:30:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Uduido at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - canning << normal air pressure is about 15 lbs/ sq in. So should I infer that it blows its top when the pressure inside is 13 lbs/ sq in greater than the outside air pressure of 15 lbs/ sq in for a total of 28? Is this the standard for pressure cooking? >> Yes, it is in addition to (that is to say greater than normal air pressure. I bought mine at a yard sale for $5.00 because the lady was "afraid" of it. The safety valve on mine is the lowest setting you can purchase. I do not know if it is a standard safety valve for the canning process. I bought it because I wanted to be "safe" rather than sorry. Lord Ras Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 09:10:30 EST From: LrdRas Subject: Re: SC - shameless begging << Lets start a new thread about what to do with all the wonderful stocks we have (I'm presuming we all have, it is a cooks list, isnt it?) left over from the holiday feasts. I would love to do something period, >> I reduce my stock to 1/2 or 2/3 and pressure can it in pints and quarts. A very large portion of period recipes call for the addition of good stock and this makes it handy to have year round.. It can be used as is or reconstituted by adding water to the strength you prefer. This is an excellent way to avoid the canned broths available commersially and saves time and dollars. Unfortunately, I do not have any left from holiday cooking. It's all in jars in the basement> 8 pints of turkey broth and 6 pints of ham broth. I also have 24 pints of beef broth and 36 pints of chicken broth canned and waiting to be used. The secret here is to buy when available on sale and/or debone your meats and cook the bones, etc. off for stock, then pressure can. Often times I freeze the bones, chicken skin and other bits until I have enough to make a kettle of stock. Ras Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 22:55:53 -0400 From: Bonne Subject: SC - spiced canteloupe > Are the jars sealed just through the heat of the cooked melon and > syrup? Does it have to pressure cook also, or do you just wait for > the lids to dimple? > > Mercedes The book predates the all encompassing instruction to pressure seal everything, in fact it instructs sealing the jars with paraffin. I haven't made the cantaloupe, but for all other jams and jellies and preserves, I put the lid on, twist the seal ring tight, flip them over and stand them on the lid, and expect to hear the lid "pop" down almost immediately. (why? Mom did it that way.) If they don't dimple, I boil in a water bath, or plan to serve those jars soon. Don't own a pressure canner. bonne Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 15:41:59 -0500 From: Helen Subject: Re: SC - canning links http://www.ext.vt.edu/pubs/foods/348-078/348-078.html http://www.foodsafety.org/can1.htm http://www.foodsafety.org/he/he210.htm http://hammock.ifas.ufl.edu/txt/fairs/7162 http://encarta.msn.com/index/conciseindex/28/02883000.htm http://www.home-canning.com/ http://www.freep.com/fun/food/qsafe20.htm http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Acres/1962/rff1.html http://soar.berkeley.edu/recipes/baked-goods/desserts/cakes/pumpkin-spice-jar2.rec http://www.ohio.com/bj/stories/preserve29.htm Helen Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 17:50:15 -0700 From: "Anne-Marie Rousseau" Subject: Re: SC - Canning-direct me for a good start? Hi all from Anne-Marie, ex-4Her :) Ras recommends the Ball Blue Book. I second this recommendation. Its available through amazon.com, and not very expensive. It gives great beginner instructions on canning and food preservation of all types and the recipes arent half bad. A good thing to start with is jams and the like...you cant die from doing them wrong. If they dont set, you can still use it as pancake syrup or a glaze for hams, etc. Once you get the hang of it, move on to simple pickles, like pickled carrots, or bread and butter pickles, or pickled onions. Again, the worst thing that happens is that the jar doesnt seal and you keep it in the fridge till you eat it. Then, try a fresh salsa or other acidic tomato project. Onc you've gotten the knack of high acid canning, you may want to get a pressure cooker and move to the low acid stuff (that's the stuff that if you do it wrong you can get botulism, etc, but even then, its not hard). good luck! canning is awfully fun. Pickled carrots, mushrooms, etc are a super easy medieval-oide crunchy thing to serve at hot tourneys. - --Anne-Marie, who used to win blue ribbons for salsa and stuff, and who's mom cleaned up every year with dill pear pickles (ugh) and made jalapeno jelly long before such things were so chic chic. (double ugh) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 10:47:03 -0600 From: "Diana Skaggs" Subject: Re: SC - Canning-direct me for a good start? Lady Elisabeth of Pendarvis asked about canning references. My canning "bible" is "Putting Food By." It covers many methods of canning & preserving, including drying and cellaring. It is updated every so often to include new canning guidelines. Leanna of Sparrowhaven Mooneschadowe, Ansteorra (Stillwater, OK) Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 11:15:22 -0400 From: Jeff Botkins Subject: Re: SC - Canning-direct me for a good start? Angie Malone wrote: > If you have a used book store in your area check that out. Canning hasn't > changed much in the last 50 years. > > The ball canning book is in at least it's second edition, the first edition > was very useful, my mother used it until it was falling apart. I have > quite a few pamphlet type books I inherited from my mother that came from > the department of agriculture, and some other agencies that have already > been mentioned. > > Angeline I just picked up the latest Ball "Blue Book" at my local Grocery Store right in the Produce section for under $4.... It's a great source, plus it has batch of recipes (stuff on preserving and dehydrating, too)... Jeff Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 11:11:23 -0600 From: "Diana Skaggs" To: Subject: Kosher salt Milord. The canning book I use differentiates between table salt and canning salt. Kosher salt is included in the canning variety. Table salt contains "extras" to keep it from caking, and often adds iodine. Occasionally, these extras will cause darkening of the product. Canning and Kosher salts are supposed to be pure. I agree with the individual on the kraut recipe. Just shredded cabbage mixed with canning or Kosher salt, allowed to ferment in a crock. The salt draws water out of the cabbage. Vinegar is used to supplement if liquid is not available from the fermenting process. Leanna of Sparrowhaven Mooneschadowe, Ansteorra upsxdls at okstate.edu Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 14:56:43 EDT From: KallipygosRed at aol.com Subject: Re: Canning/Preservatioon (was Re: SC - Re: Easy period soups?) NJSasso at msplaw.com writes: > . If done properly, then the food is nigh invincible as long as the lid > doesn't pop. My grandmother, during the heyday of bomb shelters, equipped all her shelters and then canned them to the rafters with her "foods she felt wouldn't be available anymore during a war" including peaches, etc. In 1989, after the birth of my last son, she sent me a jar of peaches with the date 1966 on it and the notation that "Now you can have a taste of history, and so can your son, if you wait 6 months". When he started eating semi-hard food, I opened the can and ground up the peach and fed it to him. It was delicious. No problems. So, yeah, they can last **quite** a while if properly canned and stored. Lars Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 14:46:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Dana Huffman Subject: Re: canned broth, was: non-member submission - Re: SC - Re: Easy period soups? > Anybody have any idea how long home-canned chicken soup is supposed to be > good for? Because I have a jar of soup that my mom canned in the summer of > 1999 and I'm embarrassed to ask her whether it should still be good. > > -- Jadwiga (who can't find any of her canning books, and I would think it should still be good. My usual approach to home-canned non-fruit is, if it looks OK and smells OK and still has a good seal, cook it at a good boil for 20 minutes and eat it. I've used this method on 2-year-old turkey broth and survived, no problem. Of course, if it was canned with noodles in it, they'll probably dissolve by the time it's cooked... Dana/Ximena Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 19:36:09 -0600 From: Diana L Skaggs Subject: Re: SC - canned asparagus >Anybody know if you can freeze it without blanching? > >Dana/Ximena Blanching stops the enzyme action that causes vegetables to go bad. According to my canning book, freezing alone slows, but does not stop the process. I sort my asparagus by thickness. Little finger and smaller - blanch one minute Little finger to thumb - blanch two minutes Thumb thickness and bigger - blanch three minutes I don't see much asparagus around here thicker than my thumb. Liadnan From: "Stephanie Drake" To: Subject: Re: Re: Re: [Sca-cooks] Pennsic food Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 16:25:04 -0500 Ok - here is a site where you can download pdf files that deal with different sorts of canning. http://extension.usu.edu/publica/foodpubs.htm Mercedes Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 07:48:29 -0700 From: Maggie MacDonald Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] OT: Quick question about canning To: Cooks within the SCA At 07:39 AM 9/25/2003,WyteRayven at aol.com said something like: > I would like to try my hand at making some apple butter and canning it. > > I was wondering if I actually need to go out and buy a canner, or if I can > just use one of the pots I already have? I know that the rack would make > it easier to remove the jars, but I also dont have much disposable cash at > the moment, and if I can just use what I have that would be great. > > Ilia For water bath canning you can use what you already have on hand. Apple butter could be water bathed just fine, it doesn't need pressure. Maggie Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 07:51:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Huette von Ahrens Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] OT: Quick question about canning To: Cooks within the SCA I have made apple butter and pear butter. You can treat it like you do jams and jellies. Take your hot finished apple butter and pour it into sterile jars, up to 1" or so from the top of the jar. Melt parafin and pour it directly onto the hot apple butter. I try to put a 3/8" layer, that will seal your apple butter for at least one year. I have have a canner, but I prefer the above method, as it is much less work. Huette Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:54:19 EDT From: Etain1263 at aol.com Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] OT: Quick question about canning To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org WyteRayven at aol.com writes: > I would like to try my hand at making some apple butter and canning it. You don't need to "can" it. I'm assuming you mean a hot water bath canner. You make sure your jars are clean (hot soapy water...rinse in hot and place upside down on a towel until ready to use). Make your apple butter (crockpots with the lid off are great for this!) Now...you sit the jars upright, grate some parafin into the bottom...pour in your HOT apple butter...and the wax will melt and rise to the top! When it cools...it will seal. You can put a lid and ring on it to keep it clean...and it keeps very well. Once the wax seal is broken...keep it in the refrigerator. Etain...who uses both water bath and pressure canning for other things.... Date: hu, 25 Sep 2003 11:22:58 -0400 From: "Barbara Benson" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] OT: Quick question about canning To: "Cooks within the SCA" I have just begun to get into canning and such, and it was never at thing that my family did so I do not have the fortune to have the years of experience to draw on from my Mom, Grandma ect... So I had to relyon "technical" information to figure out what to do. I am not saying that the people who have been doing this the traditional way that their families have been doing it are wrong. But I have found that the USDA has extensive guidelines to help people nterested in preserving foods at home. Many of their recommendations go against what has been common practice for generations. The National Center for Home Preservation can be found at: http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/how/can_home.html > From this site comes the following statement: "Because of possible mold contamination, paraffin or wax seals are no longer recommended for any sweet spread, including jellies. To prevent growth of molds and loss of good flavor or color, fill products hot into sterile Mason jars, leaving 1/4-inch headspace, seal with self-sealing lids, and process 5 minutes in a boiling-water canner. Correct process time at higher elevations by adding 1 additional minute per 1,000 ft above sea level. If unsterile jars are used, the filed jars should be processed 10 minutes. Use of sterile jars is preferred, especially when fruits are low in pectin, since the added 5-minute process time may cause weak gels." The Complete USDA guidelines can be found at: http://foodsafety.cas.psu.educanningguide.html Specifically the USDA Recipe for Apple Butter can be found at: http://foodsafety.cas.psu.edu/usda/ 2SelectingPreparing&CanningFruit&FruitProducts/AppleButter.pdf I hope that this might be helpful. Again I am not contradicting the good entles who use different techniques out of malicious intent or with the belief that I am Right and they are Wrong. It is just what I have found on my own. Serena da Riva Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:59:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Subject: part 2 Re: [Sca-cooks] OT: Quick question about canning To: Cooks within the SC > I was wondering if I actually need to go out and buy a canner, or if I > can just use one of the pots I aleady have? I know that the rack > would make it easier to remove the jars, but I also dont have much > disposable cash at the moment, and if I can just use what I have that > would be great. The other thing you want to get is a jar lifter, even if ou don't have a rack. The jar lifter looks like funny tongs and is designed to let you lift the jars out of the water by their necks. There is NO other good way to get the jars out of the bath (plenty of bad, painful ways, though, and I know 'em all) -- Pani Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne at fiedlerfamily.net Date: Thu, 25 Sep 200318:23:08 -0400 From: "Randy Goldberg MD" Subject: Re: part 2 Re: [Sca-cooks] OT: Quick question about canning To: "Cooks within the SCA" > The other thing you want to get is a jar lifter, even if you don't have a > rack. The jar lifter looks like funny tongs and is designed to let you > lift the jars out of the water by their necks. There is NO other good way > to get the jars out of the bath (plenty of bad, painful ways, though, > and I know 'em all.) I beg to differ. I use a good STRONG pair of spring loaded tongs, 16" long (mine are by OXO Good Grips), with a rubber band wrapped around each blade of the tongs. Works like a charm, and multi-tasks. Avraham ******************************************************* Reb Avraham haRofeh of Sudentur (mka Randy Goldberg MD) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:37:01 -0700 (PDT)From: Huette von Ahrens Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] OT: Quick question about canning To: Cooks within the SCA Serena, I understand where you and the USDA are coming from. When someone doesn't understand the process, things can go wrong. But at the same time, I have seen people can food wrong also. Home canning is something that requires skill and knowldge to do right. When it isn't done correctly it can be more deadly than using parafin on jams. When I make jams and butters, I sterilize the jar thoroughly. Until recently, I would boil the jars in my canner. Lately, I have been running them through he hottest cycle in my dishwasher. When the jam is ready, I immediately take it off the fire and start ladling it into a still hot jar. When that jar is full, I take the parafin off the fire and pour it into the top of the jam. The wax must be a minimum of 3/8" thick. The liquid parafin creates an airtight seal on the surface of the still hot jam. Only then is the jam allowed to cool. I then start the next jar. I also cover the jars with a lid or with seranwrap and a metal jar ring, to keep dust, etc. of the wax. The wax usually remains tight for one year. Beyond that it will start to unseal, which is probably the why of the warning. However, a couple of years ago, I found a jar of jam that was about 5 years old, that had been pushed to the back of the pantry. When I took off the lid, the wax had shrunk so much that I could easily remove the wax. The lid had protected the jam. There was no mold to be seen. I still discarded it because the sugar had crystalized. I have seen mold on some home canned fruit that had been given to me by a friend. The jar had been sealed, but obviously not properly. I have also seen mold on home cooked frozen fruit. This was in another friend's freezer. Mold happens. It can happen anywhere. It is disgusting, but a fact of life. I usually make a disgusted face and throw the food out. Huette Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 00:58:39 -0800 (PST) From: Huette von Ahrens Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] food safe temperature To: Cooks within the SCA Having canned for the past 44 years, I can tell you that you should _never_ reuse metal canning lids more than once. It even says so on the box. Unless you like having jars that are not airtight. The separate rubber rings you have described are for use with glass canning lids and are very very difficult to position just right in order to achieve an airtight seal. Huette --- Micheal wrote: > Depends on whether you buy the ones with rubber rings or with the rubber > attached to the lids. (Rubber plastic same thing in this case) The lid type > I personally don`t trust to se a second time. Canning process might leave a > crease in the rubber. But the rings go into a pot of boiling water to be > reused until they no longer flex before throwing them out. > > Da > Who regularly gets can on cordials, or is that > cordially canned regularly Date: Tue,21 Dec 2004 11:16:31 -0800 From: "Rikke D. Giles" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] food safe temperature To: Cooks within the SCA On 2004.12.21 11:03, Stefan li Rous wrote: > Huette mentioned: >> The separate rubber rings you have >> described are for use with glass canning lids and are very >> very difficult to position just right in orer to >> achieve an airtight seal. > > *glass* canning lids? Are you saying that the lids themselves are of > glass rather than metal? I don't think I've see any of these, unless > I have but didn't realize they were for canning. I've seen various > decorative jars with glass lids, usually with a metal wire > arrangement which acts as a hinge and a clamp to hold them closed. > These usually have a white rubber ring. The jars are often square in > shape. Are these actually (originally?) canning jars? Yes, hey are. And they are still used in Britain. I've several that I got from my ex-mother-in-law, while I lived in Britain (was married to a Brit). The jars aren't square, but round. They aren't as easy to use as American canning jars and metal rings etc but they do have one superiority. Acidic foods do not cause them to rust. In my, admittedly limited, experience one of the most popular things canned are pickles or chutneys. Err, not the same as our pickles/pickle relish. Anyway these are quite acidic and need the glass jars and lids or now, more modernly, they are put in plastic containers and frozen. Aelianora de Wintringham Barony of Dragon's Laire Kingdom of AnTir Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 13:09:31 -0400 From: "RUTH EARLAND" Subject: [Sca-cooks] Pickling turnips To: There are 2 reasons some sources advise against pickling turnips. One is that they grow underground and are very likely to harbor pathgenic bacteria. Sure, you're going to peel them, but you also have to be really sure there are no cracks in the vegetables. It isn't unusual to buy pickled turnips in an Asian or Middle Eastern market and bring them home only to find that they've gone off. The second is that as a low acidity vegetable, They need to be canned under pressure. Berelinde Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 19:59:20 -0400 From: Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] Pickling turnips To: "Cooks within the SCA" I have a hard time understanding the bit about underground pathogens, since pickled beet roots are a long-standing tradition. Beets are likewise a low-acidity vegetable, thus the pickling liquids being acidic. What sources are we talking about? Modern canning recommendations? Christianna Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 03:02:50 -0400 From: "RUTH EARLAND" Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Pickling Turnips (long and slightly evasive) To: Christianna wrote: > I have a hard time understanding the bit about underground pathogens, since > pickled beet roots are a long-standing tradition. Beets are likewise a > low-acidity vegetable, thus the pickling liquids being acidic. What sources > are we talking about? Modern canning recommendations? > > Christianna Please excuse my incomplete response. The statements I made were based on modern canning recommendations and apply to canned unpickled vegetables. Botulism is the big culprit. The excrement of the botulism toxin is one of the most lethal compounds known to man, and cooking the canned food after the toxin is present does not make it less harmful. The bacteria responsible resides in the ground and, in a normal aerobic environment, lives its life in peaceful anomynity. When it attempts to survive in an anaerobic environment, such as olive oil or canned food, it produces the botulism toxin. That, by the way, is why you should never steep herbs or garlic in cold olive oil. Vinegar is safe, but see below. The acidity of the pickling solution is of critical importance here. If you are canning turnips in an acidic solution, like beets, if the acidity was sufficient, the chances of contaminated pickles would be slight. Often, though, turnips are pickled in a less acidic solution than beets, so care must be taken to be sure the pickles are safe. Compost is often not particularly acidic, so I would be cautious. Sugar and salt do retard the growth of bacteria, but not as effectively as vinegar. The integrity of the vegetable or fruit is also an issue. If the skin is broken, the interior of the vegetable has been exposed to pathogens. Which is why preserving instructions, modern or period, often call for peeled, unblemished (and often cooked) fruit/vegetables. According to the canning recommendations of my aunt, who might not be THE authority on unusual pickles, but used to can everything that wasn't still breathing, low acidity fruits and vegetables, anything containing animal protein (she canned spaghetti sauce with meat), or anything she wasn't sure of should be canned under pressure in a pressure cooker. If you've been canning pickled turnips successfully for years, there's no reason to think your process is wrong. I've never canned anything besides grape jelly, dill pickles, and bread and butter pickles, so I admit I'm no authority on the process at all. Having said that, there are 3 canning methods that I know: cold pack (uncooked food, no pressure), hot pack (cooked food, no pressure), pressure (self-explanatory). I do not offer any opinion on which is the correct method to use. I simply encourage you to read up on canning before deciding which is best for the food you want to can. Out of curiosity, has anyone ever tasted the contents of a bulging can or one that has bubbled or squirted on opening? (I really hope the answer to this is 'no') Berelinde Cynewulfdohtor Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 08:22:20 -0700 From: Susan Fox Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] OOP canning adventures To: Cooks within the SCA I've been saving jars all year, much to the dismay of my housekeeper who has to figure out where to put them. A good brand of jar pasta sauce, Classico, sells their product in actual Mason jars. Better than average for commercial s'getti sauce, not full of sugar like some of them. A quick look at Google shows me that I'm not the only one who buys that brand, in part, to recycle the jars. Selene Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 11:25:55 -0400 From: Sandra Kisner Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] OOP canning adventures To: Cooks within the SCA <<< A good brand of jar pasta sauce, Classico, sells their product in actual Mason jars. Better than average for commercial s'getti sauce, not full of sugar like some of them. A quick look at Google shows me that I'm not the only one who buys that brand, in part, to recycle the jars. Selene >>> True - then all you need is new lids and bands, and the bands (once you buy them) can *also* be reused. Much cheaper than buying the whole lot. Sandra Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 11:23:44 -0400 From: "tudorpot at gmail.com" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] OOP canning adventures To: Cooks within the SCA I scour yard sales- scored two boxes of a dozen jars for $2 at one sale. The other day I found half a dozen of the wide mouth sealing rings for 25 cents. Just need to keep canning in the back of your mind when at sales. Earlier this year at one yard sale- a fellow was trying to sell a 'Classico' jar for a $1.00-- I gently suggested that for another dollar someone could buy one full of sauce. Freda Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 16:20:32 EDT From: Etain1263 at aol.com Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] OOP canning adventures To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org In a message dated 10/14/2008 11:21:56 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, selene at earthlink.net writes: <<< A quick look at Google shows me that I'm not the only one who buys that brand, in part, to recycle the jars. >>> That's true...but it doesn't have a standard size lid! You have to reuse the lids that come on them! Etain Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 11:59:57 -0400 From: Sandra Kisner Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] OOP canning adventures To: Cooks within the SCA <<< One caution, if you are pressure canning you should be using new jars, since reused ones may have stress-induced flaws that cause them to shatter under the pressure of the canner. Margaret >>> At least with pressure canning the damage should be contained. Not so with a boiling-water bath! Sandra Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 12:05:15 -0500 From: "Lisa" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] OOP canning adventures To: "Cooks within the SCA" *snip* One caution, if you are pressure canning you should be using new jars, since reused ones may have stress-induced flaws that cause them to shatter under the pressure of the canner. Margaret *snip* Very valid point, although my mom for a good many years used the same jars over and over. We did most of our canning with hot baths to seal them and only rarely (basically only when we HAD to) used the pressure cooker. I still remember how to do most of the canning my mom and I did, even though it was enough years ago I should have forgotten lol... Elizabeta of Rundel Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 16:33:55 EDT From: Etain1263 at aol.com Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] OOP canning adventures To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org ladyemp at sbcglobal.net writes: <<< One caution, if you are pressure canning you should be using new jars, since reused ones may have stress-induced flaws that cause them to shatter under the pressure of the canner. >>> I pressure can all the time...and reuse jars. What you can't use is "commercial" jars such as recycled mayonnaise jars and such. If you use the jars made for canning (Ball, etc.) you can reuse and pressure can every year. I mostly consolidated my garden produce by making peppers, onions and tomatoes for on hot sausage sandwiches and pressure canned them in pint jars to give to my sons. Etain Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 12:51:17 -0500 From: "Alexandria Doyle" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] OOP canning adventures---and gardening question To: "Cooks within the SCA" I did a quick look at a couple of sites about pressure canning, to see if they warn about new jars, and they don't. They do mention using only jars made for canning since they are intended for reuse while something like a mayo or peanut butter jar is not. The check for chips or cracks is important regardless of the kind of canning. In thinking back I don't think we did anything but pressure canning. As an adult on my own I have done the boiling bath canning infrequently, since I didn't get the pressure cooker (pouting here). This next year my daughter and I are looking to putting in a vegetable garden so at the same time as planning the planting I'm trying to get the preservation method planned, so we are prepared. alex Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 13:58:41 -0700 From: Susan Fox Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] OOP canning adventures To: Cooks within the SCA Etain1263 at aol.com wrote: selene at earthlink.net writes: <<< A quick look at Google shows me that I'm not the only one who buys that brand, in part, to recycle the jars. >>> <<< That's true...but it doesn't have a standard size lid! You have to reuse the lids that come on them! Etain >>> Huh? The ones I get seem to accomodate the standard mason lids just fine. Otherwise, why use the "mason" jar trade mark? Selene Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 07:54:16 EDT From: Etain1263 at aol.com Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] OOP canning adventures To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org StefanliRous at austin.rr.com writes: <<< Does someone make the right sized lids? Or do you do as Etain suggested and reuse the lids until the gasket gives out? >>> I haven't bought these jars in years because of the size disparity. I'm guessing that they have made the opening a standard size now. If you reuse the lid...you can only do so once. Which is why I stopped buying the stuff. Then again, I grow enough tomatoes, I make my own sauce now. Etain Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 06:51:20 -0600 From: "S CLEMENGER" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Canning/Largesse To: "Cooks within the SCA" The vinegar probably does preserve the mustard, but I can mine anyways (at our altitude, 15 mins in a boiling water bath). It helps ensure against bad buggy-do's, and it also seals the lids against leakage if they're being transported. --Maire ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark S. Harris" Gunthar commented: <<< That's a cool idea. I'd love to hand out batches of canned food or jellies as largesse. I'd personally like to make a huge batch of spiced mustard to hand out as gifts. I've been told that people have gotten addicted to my mustards. >>> Do you really need to can mustards? I thought the vinegar would preserve them. Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 09:30:48 -0400 From: "Elaine Koogler" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Canning/Largesse To: "Cooks within the SCA" There's a web site where you can order all sorts of bottles and jars, not to mention small tins of various descriptions. You can find it at http://www.specialtybottle.com/ Kiri On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 7:54 AM, Georgia Foster wrote: <<< GREAT ideas! I am temporarily the coordinator of largess for TRM Timmur and Tianna, Artemisia (until a more local one can be hired). Spiced wine Jelly sounds WAY too cool. Not experienced enough with mustard to try that as yet. If I can only find JARS!!!! Malkin >>> Edited by Mark S. Harris canning-msg Page 23 of 23