breakfast-msg - 2/22/08 What's for breakfast? SCA and period. NOTE: See also the files: eggs-msg, ham-msg, fruits-msg, grains-msg, rice-msg, beer-msg, French-Toast-msg, fried-breads-msg, French-Toast-art, sausages-msg, porridges-msg, French-Toast-art, coffee-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ From: jtn at nutter.cs.vt.edu (Terry Nutter) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Dinner we got, but how about breakfast and lunch? Date: 27 Nov 1993 22:04:27 GMT Greetings, all, from Angharad ver' Rhuawn. Godith Anyon asks, >The recent thread on feasts has spawned a question in my mind: from >the feasts I've been to, and from the discussions of cooking I've >overheard, I have a pretty good idea of what was eaten for dinner. >What the hell did they eat the rest of the day? When? Where? The following is a _very_ general idea, for medieval (not necessarily renaissance) dining. On rising, bread, cheese, small beer, ale, or mead. In addition, or as an alternative, a first meal of porridge, often cold, and sometimes meats from the previous dinner, especially cold fowl. The porridge may also be sliced and fried. In early to mid afternoon, the main meal (what you are thinking of as the feast comes closer to our lunch time than to our dinner time). In the mid evening, a lighter meal, with much the same sorts of things as the main meal (indeed, may be leftovers), but usually in much less quantity and in less diversity. Cheers, -- Angharad/Terry Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: ARCHER at utkvm1.utk.edu (T. Archer) Subject: Re: Dinner we got, but how about breakfast and lunch? Organization: University of Tennessee Division of Continuing Education Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1993 15:13:15 GMT In article <RVORIS.93Nov27130628 at world.std.com> rvoris at world.std.com (Rebecca A Voris) writes: >What the hell did they eat the rest of the day? Here in Thor's Mtn we have bring-yer-own breakfasts and we-make-em breakfasts. Most people who bring their own are mundane about it. Few people here are early risers, and generally prefer to fire down a pop-tart with some coffee than make any congnitive effort whatsoever. We-make-em breakfasts vary from period quiche recipies to modern bacon-and-eggs, depending on who is cooking. Lunch is bring your own, almost exclusively. People tend to stick to fruit, hunks of break, and smoked meats. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Mail to PA142548 at UTKVM1.UTK.EDU. Mail to ARCHER at that address will bounce. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= From: jab2 at stl.stc.co.uk (Jennifer Ann Bray) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Dinner we got, but how about breakfast and lunch? Date: 29 Nov 93 16:50:21 Organization: STC Technology Ltd., London Road, Harlow, UK. >We-make-em breakfasts vary from period quiche to modern > bacon-and-eggs, depending on who is cooking What is non-period about bacon and eggs? Pigs and fowl have been around on these islands (speaking from the U.K.) for millenia. I know that hens eggs didn't used to be an all year round food since without modern breeding and husbandry techniques they didn't lay all seasons, but that doesn't mean that eggs weren't available some of the time. I'd say bacon and eggs was probably around before quiche? Does anyone know better? Jennifer Vanaheim Vikings From: jtn at nutter.cs.vt.edu (Terry Nutter) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Dinner we got, but how about breakfast and lunch? Date: 29 Nov 1993 16:15:37 GMT Greetings, all, from Angharad ver' Rhuawn. Eyrny asks, >>meats from the previous dinner, especially cold fowl. The porridge >>may also be sliced and fried. > >Wait a second, what I know as porridge is generally a goop that you couldn't >possible SLICE but might be able to fry if you really wanted to. Though I >can't imagine it tasting too good. > >Besides boiled oats what do you mean by porridge? Try letting a thickish oatmeal get cold. You'll get something that can be sliced and fried. Porridge was often based on other grains than oats -- wheat (whole, or bread, but generally not flour) being a common version. Basically, porridge is a boiled dish of grain. If it is thin, you can't slice it. But if it is thick, and you let it cool (as in, keep it several hours off the heat, or overnight), it will solidify. Sort of. Not "get hard" (at least, one hopes not), but set. Cheers, -- Angharad/Terry From: djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu (Dorothy J Heydt) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Dinner we got, but how about breakfast and lunch? Date: 29 Nov 1993 18:43:40 GMT Organization: University of California, Berkeley In article <KGORMAN.82.2CFA08ED at ARTSPAS.watstar.uwaterloo.ca>, <KGORMAN at ARTSPAS.watstar.uwaterloo.ca> wrote: >In article <2d8itb$1ra at server.cs.vt.edu> jtn at nutter.cs.vt.edu (Terry Nutter) writes: > >>meats from the previous dinner, especially cold fowl. The porridge >>may also be sliced and fried. > >Wait a second, what I know as porridge is generally a goop that you couldn't >possible SLICE but might be able to fry if you really wanted to. Though I >can't imagine it tasting too good. Oatmeal porridge congeals to a firm slab. I have never tried it fried, but I have eaten fried cornmeal mush. You cook cornmeal and water (and a little salt) to a porridge-like consistency and put it in a pan (we used a square glass cakepan) to congeal. Then slice it into thin slices (maybe 3/8 inch), fry it in butter, and serve with maple syrup. Perfectly edible. Besides (returning to the what-do-you-eat-for-breakfast threat), there's that old nursery rhyme: When good King Stephen ruled this land He was a goodly king; He stole three pecks of barley-meal To make a bag-pudding. A bag-pudding the King did make, And stuffed it well with plums, And put thereto great lumps of fat, As big as my two thumbs. The King and Queen did eat thereof, And courtiers beside, And what they could not eat that night, The Queen next morning fried. Not that bag-puddings (invented in the early Tudor period I believe) would be period for Stephen, who's mid-twelfth century. Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin Dorothy J. Heydt Mists/Mists/West UC Berkeley Argent, a cross forme'e sable djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu From: jeffs at math.bu.EDU (Jeff Suzuki) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: leftovers Date: 29 Nov 1993 18:46:13 -0500 IBM writes: >>The recent thread on feasts has spawned a question in my mind: from >>the feasts I've been to, and from the discussions of cooking I've >>overheard, I have a pretty good idea of what was eaten for dinner. >>What the hell did they eat the rest of the day? > >>Godith Anyon >>Carolingia >>rvoris at world.std.com > >Leftovers ( I'm serious ) Hmmmm...I'm trying to recall how the line went in "Fabulous Feasts", but it was something like this: dinner would be served on a truncheon, which was basically a piece of stale bread that could double as a mace. It soaked up all the juices and stuff. The next morning, it was reasonably edible, as long as you kept the dogs away from it. Fujimoto From: David Schroeder <ds4p+ at andrew.cmu.edu> Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Dinner we got, but how about breakfast and lunch? Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1993 00:06:45 -0500 Organization: Doctoral student, Industrial Administration, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Hi folks -- Excerpts from netnews.rec.org.sca: 29-Nov-93 Re: Dinner we got, but how .. by KGORMAN at ARTSPAS.watstar. > jtn at nutter.cs.vt.edu (Terry Nutter) writes: > >>>meats from the previous dinner, especially cold fowl. The porridge > >>>may also be sliced and fried. > > >Try letting a thickish oatmeal get cold. You'll get something that can > >be sliced and fried. > > Okay. Now is it any good? > > Eyrny This isn't a demonstrably period technique, as far as I know... But I take oatmeal or some other hot cereal which has "set" and add 1 c. flour, .5 c. sugar, 2 eggs, and enough milk to make it the consistancy of heavy cream. Tastes great poured onto a 380-400 degree griddle and fried like a pancake and served with honey... My best -- Bertram From: Gretchen Miller <grm+ at andrew.cmu.edu> Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Dinner we got, but how about breakfast and lunch? Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1993 12:21:10 -0500 Organization: Computer Operations, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Excerpts from netnews.rec.org.sca: 29-Nov-93 Re: Dinner we got, but how .. Jennifer Ann Bray at stl.st (559) > What is non-period about bacon and eggs? > Pigs and fowl have been around on these islands (speaking from the > U.K.) for millenia. I know that hens eggs didn't used to be an all > year round food since without modern breeding and husbandry techniques > they didn't lay all seasons, but that doesn't mean that eggs weren't > available some of the time. I won't vouch for bacon an eggs, but there's a recipe for ham omelets in Two Fifteenth C Cokery Bookes (this version of the omelet is called hanony). There's also recipes for French Toast (though I don't remember the name for that). toodles, margaret From: g_duperault at venus.twu.edu Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Dinner we got, but how about breakfast... Date: 30 Nov 93 13:06:26 +600 Organization: Texas Woman's University David Schroeder <ds4p+ at andrew.cmu.edu> writes: > This isn't a demonstrably period technique, as far as I know... > But I take oatmeal or some other hot cereal which has "set" > and add 1 c. flour, .5 c. sugar, 2 eggs, and enough milk to > make it the consistancy of heavy cream. Tastes great poured > onto a 380-400 degree griddle and fried like a pancake and > served with honey... > > My best -- Bertram Kill the sugar and substitute leftover mashed potatoes for the cereal. Serve hot with sausages. Avwye From: fnklshtn at axp2.acf.nyu.edu Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Dinner we got, but how about breakfast and lunch? Date: 30 Nov 93 19:09:38 GMT Organization: New York University, NY, NY djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu (Dorothy J Heydt) writes: >In article <KGORMAN.82.2CFA08ED at ARTSPAS.watstar.uwaterloo.ca>, > <KGORMAN at ARTSPAS.watstar.uwaterloo.ca> wrote: >>In article <2d8itb$1ra at server.cs.vt.edu> jtn at nutter.cs.vt.edu (Terry Nutter) writes: >> >> >Oatmeal porridge congeals to a firm slab. I have never tried it fried, >but I have eaten fried cornmeal mush. You cook cornmeal and water (and >a little salt) to a porridge-like consistency and put it in a pan (we >used a square glass cakepan) to congeal. Then slice it into thin slices >(maybe 3/8 inch), fry it in butter, and serve with maple syrup. Perfectly >edible. What a waste! Letting the Mamaliga get cold. Try it hot. Shred some Feta cheese on top. Over that, pour a mixture of melted butter and chopped garlic (the garlic cooked in the butter). Cold, refried mamaliga is passable when there is absolutely nothing else to eat. Hot mamaliga (as I have described) is a food of the gods! Nahum From: jtn at nutter.cs.vt.edu (Terry Nutter) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Dinner we got, but how about breakfast and lunch? Date: 30 Nov 1993 20:14:09 GMT Greetings, all, from Angharad ver' Rhuawn. Responding to Jennifer, Margaret writes, >> What is non-period about bacon and eggs? >> Pigs and fowl have been around on these islands (speaking from the >> U.K.) for millenia. I know that hens eggs didn't used to be an all >> year round food since without modern breeding and husbandry techniques >> they didn't lay all seasons, but that doesn't mean that eggs weren't >> available some of the time. > >I won't vouch for bacon an eggs, but there's a recipe for ham omelets in >Two Fifteenth C Cokery Bookes (this version of the omelet is called >hanony). There's also recipes for French Toast (though I don't >remember the name for that). Pain perdue (or some spelling variant; there are several recipes for it). From the French (actually, more likely from the Anglo-Norman 8^) for "lost bread". There's also Pain Fondue ("found bread", Anglo-Norman) for making a sort of drunken wine-based bread pudding, served with sweet syrup, which is usually presented next in recipe collections, suggesting that it was eaten in the same sort of way, at the same sort of time. Hmmmmmm. Not something I'd be likely to start the day with, but then, I'm a decadent modern. Cheers, -- Angharad/Terry From: bhaddad at lunacity.com (Barbara Haddad) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Dinner we got, but how about breakfast and lunch? Date: Tue, 30 Nov 93 12:58:52 PST Organization: LunaCity BBS - (Clan Zen Relay Network) Mountain View, CA > Eyrny asks, > > >>>>meats from the previous dinner, especially cold fowl. The porridge > >>>>may also be sliced and fried. > > > >>Try letting a thickish oatmeal get cold. You'll get something that can > >>be sliced and fried. > > > >Okay. Now is it any good? > > Don't know for sure; haven't tried it. My instinct, having done similar > sorts of things, is that it could vary anywhere from lovely to godbloodyawful > depending on how you made the porridge, how you seasoned it, how thick you > sliced it, and how and in what you fried it. > > It is highly documented as a dish _everybody_ ate, top to bottom of the > social ladder, regularly; so one supposes that it was easily made at least > edible, since those at the top had many edible alternatives (that much at > least I _do_ know ;^). I've had fried oatmeal (done over a campstove on a fishing trip) & it was very good. (We fried it in a bit of bacon drippings, each piece about an inch thick, until the sides were golden [& checked to see if the interior was hot by sticking our finger inside.) However, I prefer fried cornmeal-mush; fried pancake-style on a griddle. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Just a thought from Barbara Haddad -> (bhaddad at lunacity.com) LunaCity BBS - Mountain View, CA - 415 968 8140 From: jtn at nutter.cs.vt.edu (Terry Nutter) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Dinner we got, but how about breakfast and lunch? Date: 1 Dec 1993 08:00:47 GMT Greetings, all, from Angharad ver' Rhuawn. I posted, >Dorothea says, > >>Terry Nutter <jtn at nutter.cs.vt.edu> wrote: >>> >>>...There's also Pain Fondue ("found bread", Anglo-Norman) ... >> >>Wouldn't it translate "poured" or "melted bread"? > >You'd think so, but that's not what the commentators I've looked >at said. I don't really have the resources to look up differences >between French and Anglo-Norman. Maybe the commentators are wrong. My curiosity roused, I tried tracing whether there were other relevant meanings of "fondre" that would help, when my husband suggested that the secret may lie in the English, not in the French, with some alternative meaning of "found" like "rendered to fundamentals". At this point, "foundary" went through my mind, and I looked up the English verb "found". Sure enough, it has a meaning (with regard primarily to glass and metal) of more or less "to melt and cast". I suspect that the "found" in "found bread" is not from "find", but a corruption of "founded", in this sense of the verb "found". So the commentators are right, and so is Dorothea. Cheers, -- Angharad/Terry Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: UCCXDEM <UCCXDEM at MVS.UCC.OKSTATE.EDU> Subject: Re: Dinner we got, but how about breakfast and lunch? Organization: Oklahoma State University Computer Center, Stillwater OK Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1993 15:26:00 GMT >Greetings, all, from Angharad ver' Rhuawn. >Eyrny asks, >>>>>meats from the previous dinner, especially cold fowl. The porridge >>>>>may also be sliced and fried. >>>Try letting a thickish oatmeal get cold. You'll get something that can >>>be sliced and fried. >>Okay. Now is it any good? >Don't know for sure; haven't tried it. My instinct, having done similar >sorts of things, is that it could vary anywhere from lovely to godbloodyawful, >depending on how you made the porridge, how you seasoned it, how thick you >sliced it, and how and in what you fried it. >It is highly documented as a dish _everybody_ ate, top to bottom of the >social ladder, regularly; so one supposes that it was easily made at least >edible, since those at the top had many edible alternatives (that much at >least I _do_ know ;^). >Cheers, >-- Angharad/Terry Greetings unto the Rialto, Lady Angharad and Eyrny from Marke. Speaking from experience, the fried porridge can be plain and as tasty as a rice cake to tasting like a large soft oatmeal cookie. The taste has a lot to do with how the porridge was prepared, either with just water or with milk and butter and maybe with some honey. The fried cornmeal porridge my mother used to make. she called mush. It is good fried in butter and wildflower honey dribbled over it. Good Eating, Marke uccxdem at okway.okstate.edu From: ctallan at epas.utoronto.ca (Cheryl Tallan) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Medieval meals Date: 16 Jan 1994 13:46:50 -0500 Organization: EPAS Computing Facility, University of Toronto A while ago there was a discussion of what people ate for breakfast, lunch and supper. I just came across the following quote taken from the _Liber Niger_ of Edward IV (in Bibl. Harl. No. 642, fol. 1-196) as found in _A Collection of Ordinances and Regulations for the Government of the Royal Household, Made in Divers Reigns, From King Edward III. to King William and Queen Mary; Also Recepts in Ancient Cookery._ London (Society of Antiquaries), 1790. (Commonly referred to as _Household Ordinances_) on page 27: ...THE KYNG for his brekefast, two looves made into four manchetts, and ii payne demayne, one messe of kychyn grosse, dim' gallon of ale. Item, at none for his bourde sitting allone, viii loves, with the trenchers; his servyce of the kychyn cannot be expresses at certeyn but the noble Edward the Third, in comune dayes seryall, beying no prees of lordes or straungers at his bourde, was served with viii diverse dissches; and his lordes in hall and chamber with v, his gentylmen in court with iii dissches, besides porage; and groomes and others with ii disshes diverse. Then the Kinges meate, two pitchers and dim' wine, ii gallons ale. Item, for his souper by hymeslf, viii loves, with the trenchers...,ii pitchers wyne, ii gallons ale, besides the fruter and the waferer. This might give those with poor spelling habits some wherewithall to piece together some of what noble types ate on a daily basis when they weren't feasting. I thought it might be worth posting for them as don't have the book in their local library. David (NOT Cheryl) Tallan sometimes known as Thomas Grozier or various names prefixed by AEthel- tallan at flis.utoronto.ca From: Luxueil (3/2/95) To: Mark Harris RE>breakfast poll On Tue, 28 Feb 1995, Mark Harris wrote: > This sounds interesting. Uncooked oatmeal, though? Does the final > stuff clump together? end up as patties? Or is it just stir fried > together? You add some oil, right? Or is the oatmeal moistened with > water first? I called the person who originally cooked it for me. It is from an oop scottish cookbook. The original called for 4oz med. oatmeal. 2oz drippings & one onion. The lady who made it for me added the ham, and I think used butter, margerine to simulate the drippings. It is a fairly flexible recipe. I don't know any one who actually measures. The oatmeal ends up sort of al dente. Jean Louis Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: breakfast poll From: una at bregeuf.stonemarche.org (Honour Horne-Jaruk) Date: Sat, 25 Feb 95 11:25:49 EST > donna.yandle at lightspeed.com (Donna Yandl > > >In short, what has been one of your favorite items served at breakfast > >during an event? I am planning on hosting breakfast during an event next > >fall, and I am taking suggestions....I want it to be unique. > > >-Berengaria of Silver Keep Respected friend: If the site permits any form of booze at all, get some alcohol-reduced sweet wine and soak bread crusts in it. It's called sops-in-wine and seems to have been in common use for an amazingly long stretch of our target period. However, since I'm allergic to alcohol, I recommend Frumenty- whole wheat berries and chopped dried fruit soaked in, and then boiled in, light cream. Cariodoc probably has the original recipe }:-> They didn't reserve it for breakfast, but it's a real medieval dish that fits modern notions of what breakfast "ought to" be like. The only dish I know was a standard breakfast dish was sops-in-wine. There is some evidence for eggs cracked into boiling leftover soup being used by anglo-saxons, but it's pretty tenuous. In Spain in the Renaissance a common equivalent of our "buy a danish on the way to work" breakfast was old women with little pots of boiling olive oil who would crack an egg into it when you showed up and handed them money. I believe for that one you brought your own bowl and ate with your fingers as you walked. Somebody painted a picture of one, with her pot heating over a clever little charcoal brazier. (I've always wanted to do her at Pennsic...) Small ale and cheese were popular with laborers in England. The Lowlander dairymen drank the buttermilk, again with bread soaked in it. The Norse liked cottage cheese with honey, or salted oatmeal patted flat on a fireplace rock to bake. Everybody ate leftovers. If you serve coffee, I'd like to suggest doing it in correct crusader- states style; incredibly strong, in tiny cups, and accompanied by large plates of wildly varying sticky sweets }:-> English dalesmen, facing a twenty-mile circle of thier tiny bothies (and carrying the milk home to boot) baked loaves in the fireplace ashes, made with one pound of lard _each_. Two kept the pockets warm and the man fed until he returned for his supper at dusk. Everybody drank in the morning, except observant Muslims. What they drank was a year-and-place matter. Hope this helps- Yours in service to the Society- (Friend) Honour Horne-Jaruk R.S.F. Alizaunde, Demoiselle de Bregeuf C.O.L. SCA Una Wicca (That Pict) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: ddfr at quads.uchicago.edu (david director friedman) Subject: Re: breakfast poll Organization: The University of Chicago Date: Sun, 26 Feb 1995 16:16:17 GMT "However, since I'm allergic to alcohol, I recommend Frumenty- whole wheat berries and chopped dried fruit soaked in, and then boiled in, light cream. Cariodoc probably has the original recipe }:->" (Alizaunde) Here is the recipe from the Miscellany. As you can see, frumente is a sort of Frankish Harisa. Frumente Curye on Inglysch p. 98 (Forme of Cury no. 1) To make frumente. Tak clene whete & braye yt wel in a morter tyl the holes gon of; sethe it til it breste in water. Nym it vp & lat it cole. Tak good broth & swete mylk of kyn or of almand & tempere it therwith. Nym yelkys of eyren rawe & saffroun & cast therto; salt it; lat it nought boyle after the eyren been cast therinne. Messe it forth with venesoun or with fat motoun fresch. 1/2 c cracked wheat 1 c whole milk (or almond milk) 6 threads saffron 1 1/2 c water 3 egg yolks 1/2 t salt 1 c chicken broth Mix wheat and water in a small pot and heat over medium heat until it boils (the water is absorbed), then remove lid and cool, with occasional stirring to hasten the cooling and break up the pasty lumps. Add broth and whole milk and warm mixture over low medium heat, adding saffron during heating. When lukewarm to the touch, add egg yolks and bring to a boil, stirring almost constantly. This takes nearly 30 minutes, and perhaps ten more before it is sufficiently thick (amount dropped from spoon sat on top and did not blend in directly). Frumenty is traditionally served with venison; this recipe also suggests serving with mutton. "If you serve coffee, I'd like to suggest doing it in correct crusader-states style; incredibly strong, in tiny cups, and accompanied by large plates of wildly varying sticky sweets }:->" (Alizaunde) Coffee does not come into use in al-Islam until the middle of the 15th century, by which time I believe the Crusader states were only a bad memory. See Hattox's book on the history of coffee and coffee houses for a detailed chronology. David/Cariadoc From: jlv at chinook.halcyon.com (Vifian(s)) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: breakfast poll Date: 25 Feb 1995 02:09:14 GMT Organization: Northwest Nexus Inc. >In short, what has been one of your favorite items served at breakfast >-Berengaria of Silver Keep One of my favorites is scurlie (spelling optional) which is diced onions, ham and otherwise uncooked oatmeal, all fried together. Proportions are to taste. Jean Louis de Chambertin jlv at halcyon.com From: parkerd at mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca (Diana Parker) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: breakfast poll Date: 26 Feb 1995 02:37:23 -0500 Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada Bruce Campbell <dmaster at primenet.com> wrote: >Donna Yandle (donna.yandle at lightspeed.com) wrote: >: In short, what has been one of your favorite items served at breakfast >What I refer to is Scottish Eggs. > >As I understand the preperation of said eggs, you hard-boil the eggs, >remove the shells, coat with a mixture of sausage and bread (crumbs? not >sure..) and then deep fry them. A gentle here by the name of Caradoc has >more information on them, with luck he'll post the actual recipe. If you >do make them, let me know. I'll be there. ;) Take cold hard cooked eggs & peel them. Take fresh ground sausage and firmly pack a thin coating of sausage around the eggs (1/4" or less). Have ready a small bowl of bread crumbs, and a second small bowl with a raw egg beaten with a tbsp of water. Dip the sausage coated eggs, one at a time, in the egg mixture, just enough to dampen them, then dip directly in the crumbs to lightly coat all over. {this is _very_ messy on the fingers until you master wetting the eggs without also wetting your knuckles} Then place directly into your pan without setting them down anywhere else first. These can be easily pan-fried (I leave deep frying braver cooks than I) I use a non-stick skillet, but a lightly greased regular pan would work as well. Rotate the eggs in the pan _carefully_ as the part closest to the heat cooks. {the carefully is because when part is cooked & part is not, is when the sausage & crumb covering are most likely to crack on you} Cook until the sausage is cooked through - raw or undercooked pork is not your friend, espescially not when cooking for your friends. Best served warm (or hot), but even leftover cold are good too. Ignore the Cholesterol count, because you don't want to know anyway cheers Tabitha ---------------------------------------------- Diana Parker <parkerd at mcmail.mcmaster.ca> Security Services CUC - 201 McMaster University (905) 525-9140 (x24282) From: ac508 at dayton.wright.EDU (Beverly Roden) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Breakfast Poll Date: 26 Feb 1995 23:57:12 -0500 IF you are looking for something that MODERN folks will eat for breakfast- then look no farther than Pan Perdue (and, of course, if i've spelled it wrong, i'm sorry) - the medieval equivilant of modern French Toast. When I have crashers at my house, as well as breakfasts at Pennsic, I will fix the above, or one (or more) of the following: Pancakes with fried apples (the apples are fried in advance and mixed into the pancake batter. In this way, if someone needs to eat on the run, they get something bread and fruit without the mess of syrup), Garbage Eggs - these will be scrambled eggs with whatever is in the house (onions, sausage, tomatoes, cheese, you get the idea) Oatmeal (with dried fruit (raisins, cranberries, etc) and nuts and brown sugar), and grits (see oatmeal). This served with juice, coffee, and milk. At Pennsic last year, there were folks serving breakfast in midrealm royal encampment for the peerage meetings (if you call an early meeting, you need the food and coffee stick to get them to come). In addition to some of the above things being served (along with the usual sweet rolls) was cheese cake (done in the rennaissance italian style) - which was gobbled up by the all and sundry. Alexis MacAlister, O.L. (overheard in midrealm royal, after the chivalry meeting, wherein the order of the chivalry of the midrealm had been overheard bursting into song: "I'm not telling what I put in those EGGS!" From: Gretchen Miller <grm+ at andrew.cmu.edu> Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Breakfast Poll Date: Mon, 6 Mar 1995 17:44:22 -0500 Organization: Computer Operations, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Two of my favorites, provably period, though not necessarily for breakfast: omelets and french toast. I don't recall the names, but recipes for both can be found in the Two 15th Century Cookbooks. toodles, margaret From: caradoc at enet.net (John Groseclose) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: breakfast poll Date: Wed, 01 Mar 1995 10:10:11 -0700 Suze.Hammond at f56.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Suze Hammond) wrote: <snip> >Usually called Scotch Eggs. I've tried to make them, and no matter what I >do (and what advice or recipe) I can't keep the meat covering from cracking. > >I've tried three Scottish cookbooks so far... This is one of my favorites... > >HHHHHHELLLPPPP! > >... Moreach NicMhaolain Well, if you make the covering too thin, it'll crack, and if you make it too thick, it'll crack... Between 1/4" and 1/2" is what works for me... Deep-frying cooks the meat more evenly so there's less chance of cracking. If you pan-fry, you need to keep the eggs moving so their covering cooks evenly. The last batch of these I did was a dozen, and I cracked the coverings on two of those. Practice makes perfect. Also, don't forget to dip them in the beaten egg, as it helps to hold the whole delicious mess together. -- John Groseclose <caradoc at enet.net> From: steffan at world.std.COM (Steven H Mesnick) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Breafast poll Date: 12 Mar 1995 00:57:45 -0500 For me, the One True Breakfast at Pennsic is Sated Tyger Gruel. For the uninitiated, *real* gruel is non-disgusting. Gruel in literature is disgusting because it's always described as *watery*, i.e. *bad* gruel. Gruel is simply (yesterday's) beef stew mixed with (today's) oatmeal.... The Sated Tyger was the fabled first Inn at Pennsic, the first public food-service establishment at the War. The proprietor was Johan von Traubenberg, the Chief Cook was Old Marian of Edwinstowe, and Elspeth Keyfe of Neddingham was a counter-wench and cook. Marian and Elspeth now run the Battlefield Bakery. Steffan ap Cennydd From: allilyn at juno.com (LYN M PARKINSON) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 17:46:52 EDT Subject: Re: SC - Theme feasts Arme Ritter (Poor Knights) is the name of a medieval German French toast. It is served with hot applesauce instead of American maple syrup. I like to use the chunky applesauce, with cinnamon. Be prepared to make LOTS if you use it. Goes fast. As I am not a morning person, someone else usually offers to do breakfast. This is an easy dish for me to assign and for them to cook. Allison From: gfrose at cotton.vislab.olemiss.edu (Terry Nutter) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 18:24:15 -0500 Subject: Re: SC - Theme feasts Hi, Katerine here. Allison writes: >Arme Ritter (Poor Knights) is the name of a medieval German French toast. > It is served with hot applesauce instead of American maple syrup. I >like to use the chunky applesauce, with cinnamon. Be prepared to make >LOTS if you use it. Goes fast. As I am not a morning person, someone >else usually offers to do breakfast. This is an easy dish for me to >assign and for them to cook. French toast (without, of course, the vanilla that many people put into the batter) also exists in the English corpus, under the name pain perdu ("lost bread"). Recipes for it occur in both the manuscripts in Austin, in _An_Ordinanace_of_Pottage_, in _Noble_Boke_off_Cookry_, and in Harley 5401 (an English MS edited by Constance Hieatt in an article that appeared recently in Medium Aevum). None of them, however, call for any topping (though all include sugar, so that the dish may still be quite sweet). There's also no particular indication that it was viewed as a breakfast dish, but what the heck.... Cheers, - -- Katerine/Terry Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 00:12:39 -0800 From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com> Subject: Re: SC - breakfasts? At 7:02 AM +0100 2/17/98, Par Leijonhuvud wrote: >I would imagine leftovers, augmented by fresh bread and (perhaps) a >porrige. Or has anyone here better documentation for (early) period >breakfasts? The Caliph Mu'awiyya (May Allah be Content With Him) used to break his fast with the leftovers from the previous night's dinner. On the other hand, the Percys around 1512 had (in lent) beer, bread, wine, salt fish, baconed herrings, white herring or sprats. Another reference (also from C. Anne Wilson) is "Brown bread and butter, which is a countryman's breakfast," probably late in our period. David/Cariadoc http://www.best.com/~ddfr/ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 20:56:58 +0000 From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net> Subject: Re: SC - Period Breakfasts... And it came to pass on 17 Feb 98, that Philip & Susan Troy wrote: > There are various accounts of what certain historical figures ate > shortly after waking up in the morning. Based on these accounts, I'd > say the most common period breakfast for a noble would be bread and > ale or wine, depending on locale and pocketbook, accompanied perhaps > by fresh herring in season, which leads one to deduce that meat may > have been added when permitted by the Church. I have some pages photocopied out of _The Northumberland Household Book_, which contains the household records of an English noble establishment from 1512. It details what various members of the household were given for breakfast on fish and flesh days. Here are a few details, paraphrased. Breakfasts in Lent: My Lord and My Lady -- a loaf of bread in trenchers, 2 manchets, a quart of beer, a quart of wine, 2 pieces of saltfish, 6 "baconn'd" herrings, 4 white herrings or a dish of sproits [sprats?] My Lord Percy and Master Thomas Percy -- half a loaf of household bread, a manchet, a potell of beer, a dish of butter, a piece of saltfish, a dish of sproits or white herring My Lord's clerks -- a loaf of bread, a potell of beer, 2 pieces of saltfish Breakfasts on flesh days: My Lord and My Lady -- a loaf of bread in trenchers, 2 manchets, a quart of beer, a quart of wine, half a "chyne" of mutton or a "chyne" of boiled beef My Lord Percy and Master Thomas Percy -- half a loaf of household bread, a manchet, a potell of beer, a chicken or 3 boiled mutton bones My Lord's clerks -- a loaf of bread, a potell of beer, a piece of boiled beef I haven't listed all the breakfasts for the different ranks. Obviously, the higher up, the more items on the menu. Beer and bread (of varying quality) are the basics that *always* appear. The stable hands, year round, got beer and household (ie. coarse) bread, and nothing else. Lady Brighid ni Chiarain of Tethba Barony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom mka Robin Carroll-Mann *** harper at idt.net Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 10:17:24 -0000 From: "Yeldham, Caroline S" <csy20688 at GlaxoWellcome.co.uk> Subject: SC - Breakfast Re: 'Baconn'd herring' I understood salted and smoked herring was normally referred to as 'red herring', whereas white herring was just salted. On the other hand, I'd have through it unlikely that bacon would have been consumed in Lent, without special approval. I understood (and I can't remember where I read this - could be Fast and Feast by Bridget Ann Henisch ) that breakfast was not really approved of - that a 'decent' person only needed to eat once a day, anything else was greed (1 of the 7 deadly sins) and that is why breakfast and supper were kept very simple (the less trouble, the less attention is drawn to your potential sin!) Caroline Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 20:38:35 -0800 From: charding at nwlink.com (Cathy Harding) Subject: Re: SC - breakfasts? I often do frumenty with milk and barley or wheat. I also do Panperdy and Savilum. Panperdy resembles french toast somewhat (at least that's what you tell finicky kids) It's from Markham (I think that's what my note says) Maeve To make the best panperdy, take a dozen eggs, and break them, and beat them very well, then put into them cloves, mace, cinnamon, nutmeg, and a good store of sugar, and as much salt as shall season it: then take a manchet [a manchet is a quality 'white" loaf], and cut it into thick slices like toasts; which done, take your frying pan, and put into it a good store of sweet butter, and, being melted, lay in your slices of bread, then pour upon them half of your eggs; then when that is fried, with a dish, turn your slices of bread upward, and then pour on them the other half of your eggs, and so turn them till both sides be brown; then dish it up, and serve it with sugar strewed upon it. Here is a breakfast dish that goes over quite well. I have been told that it is a roman dish, I am unsure of the source as it was given to me by a friend. Savillum Recipe By: from Fjorleith Serving Size: 10 Amount Measure Ingredient 15 ounces Ricotta cheese 2 eggs 1 cup Bulgur 1 cup honey poppy seeds Mix all and bake in a covered oiled pan at 350-375 for 45min. uncover and glaze with honey and poppy seeds. Serve Chilled (Breakfast) ----- Per serving: 238 Calories; 7g Fat (24% calories from fat); 8g Protein; 40g Carbohydrate; 58mg Cholesterol; 50mg Sodium Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 06:08:00 -0700 From: "Anne-Marie Rousseau" <acrouss at gte.net> Subject: Re: SC - Pennsic Menu -- LONG Might I recommend for breakfasts Herbolade? mince an onion and clarify in good olive oil. Throw in a bag of that irradiated pre-washed spinach. Let sweat down. Break and beat a dozen eggs. Throw in and stir. Stir occasionally until the eggs are almost set. Sprinkle with grated cheese of choice (we used pre-grated provolone and cheddar we can get in bags). Cover and let burble till cheese melts. there are several versions of this in the English/French corpus, some with cheese some without. We've done it with spinache, and also with bags of fancy salad greens. In my experience, eggs transport just fine without a cooler, assuming you buy them right before you leave and keep them in the shade under a wet cloth, in the carton you bought them in to protect them. - --Anne-Marie Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:44:13 -0600 (MDT) From: Sabia <sabia at unm.edu> Subject: Re: SC - Herbolade/Leche lardys/breakfast On Tue, 23 Jun 1998, Robyn Probert wrote: > But for those of us who are... I've found very little info on breakfast > foods and would welcome pointers to any sources. > > Rowan not sure if it is in print or just on microfiche but in either A Book of Cookrye (1591) or Epulario (or The Italian Banquet) (1598) there was a recipe for a chicken pottage good for the morning or some such phrasing. I only skimmed it as I was looking for a specific type of recipe, but I can go back through later and look again. Sabia of St Kildas {sabia at unm.edu} Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 19:13:43 -0500 From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: Re: SC - Breakfasts Gretchen M Beck wrote: > >>, (I try to fight the 'bacon and eggs every time' crowd by introducing > interesting alternatives) << > > But why? Omelettes with ham (hanony) and French Toast are perfectly 15th c. I seem to recall hanoney being more like scrambled eggs with chopped onion and butter, but then I am recalling a 14th century source. It may have changed. On the other hand, is there any evidence to suggest these foods were widely eaten for breakfast? Breakfast for events can be difficult when trying to reconcile proper medieval behavior and modern palates. I have no problem with bread and ale (ale being a cool but not cold, malty-tasting, not-especially-fizzy low-alcohol beverage) of a morning, with perhaps a nice herring to go with it, but not everyone is like me. Apart from bread and perhaps, in households without ovens, porridge of some kind (although that can smack suspiciously of dinner if the period menus are to be believed), possibly a bread companion like soft cheese or a fruit cheese, the foods that seem most likely to me are the remains of a previous night's roast (you sometimes see poultry or game mentioned in connection with breakfast, or possibly a piece of boiled bacon). Another possibility that might be considered by some a fine breakfast are pancakes and fritters of various kinds. Breakfast for the nobs seems often to have been a meal taken on the fly, and fritters, pancakes, and other little crunchy finger foods seem to have been eaten on the streets in the cities, so they would probably make a good breakfast, in the same way some people eat doughnuts of a morning. It also occurs to me that a cup of plain broth might make a decent and not-impossible medieval morning pick-me-up. The stockpot has presumably been going all night anyway... Adamantius stgardr, East Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 03:18:22 -0600 From: allilyn at juno.com (LYN M PARKINSON) Subject: Re: SC - Breakfasts Yep, I know the sort of casserole--came up with some of my own years ago, that would be easy for crashers' brunch 'cause I'm not a morning person. I love the Highland Breakfast idea! It sounds great. I've done the Arme Ritter, which is a German version of french toast, called Poor Knights, and also the omelettes, or scrambled eggs with additions, your choice: dishes of sausage, bacon, grated cheese, sauteed mushrooms if any are left over, etc. I'm definately an egg and bacon person, although I have oatmeal sometimes, but if the feast was great, I'll take the left-overs! I like hot, cooked fruit, too. Allison allilyn at juno.com, Barony Marche of the Debatable Lands, Pittsburgh, PA Kingdom of Aethelmearc Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 10:33:41 SAST-2 From: "Ian van Tets" <IVANTETS at botzoo.uct.ac.za> Subject: SC - Breakfast Do you remember ages ago we had a thread on breakfasts? Only now do I find that I did have something that described a period breakfast: apparently somewhere in Thomas Tusser (wife section, I think) there is a reference to the provision of breakfast for farm workers, which is apparently pottage and salt fish. So my two questions are: Does anyone have a copy of the reference, so I can see the actual wording? and How do you think this was done? At present my guess is a grain pottage (put on the coals to cook the night before) and finely chopped salt fish, rather like the Chinese congee and dried fish idea. Any thoughts, please? Cairistiona Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 05:08:45 PST From: "Bonita Plunk" <dasbonster at hotmail.com> Subject: Re: SC - Breakfast >How do you think this was done? At present my guess is a grain >pottage (put on the coals to cook the night before) and finely chopped >salt fish, rather like the Chinese congee and dried fish idea. > >Cairistiona My thought would be that you are right about the grain pottage, but what about Fish preserved in a salt brine, pickled as it were? HL Bonnie (You've no idea how Yummy that sounds this morning:) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:41:57 -0600 From: LYN M PARKINSON <allilyn at juno.com> Subject: Re: SC - Breakfast I would guess they were handed a dried, salted fish, like a smoked kipper. The kippers may have been cooked, and piled on a huge platter for people pick up. The pottage would have been served in a bowl, I think, and the overnight cooking was most likely the way. If they bothered to spice, or sweeten it for farm workers, it was probably done early, as the pottage was brought up to hot on a fresh fire. Allison allilyn at juno.com, Barony Marche of the Debatable Lands, Pittsburgh, PA Kingdom of Aethelmearc Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:20:42 SAST-2 From: "Ian van Tets" <ivantets at botzoo.uct.ac.za> Subject: SC - Breakfasts Oops! That will teach me to check my documentation before I report someone else's findings! Tusser's poem 'The Good Housewife' reads 'Call servants to breakfast, by day star appear/ a snatch to wake fellows, but tarry not here./ Let huswife be carver, let pottage be eat,/ a dishful each one with a morsel of meat.' Elizabeth Burton herself says (completely unsubstantiated) that artisans ate a breakfast of 'bread, salt herring, cold meat, pottage, cheese and ale'. I suppose the fish would be more important in fast days. She also says that Queen Elizabeth's breakfast was 'manchet, ale, beer, wine and a good pottage made of mutton or beef' (again unsupported). I wish I could remember where the salt fish and pottage reference was then. Cairistiona Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:04:23 -0500 From: "Margo Farnsworth" <margokeiko at esslink.com> Subject: Re: SC - Breakfast I don't mean to give anyone whiplash by going back on the subject. Years ago in Calontir a Scottish friend made me a dish he called Mince. For this dish he stewed beef until tender and then added enough oatmeal to make it into a paste. He also added peas and seasoned it with black pepper and salt. Would this have been a sort of meat porridge eaten in period? He led me to believe it was from a period source. We had it for dinner, but I bet it would be a wonderfully satisfying breakfast! Faoiltighearna Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 04:22:35 EDT From: Mordonna22 at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - Cooking for 2 at war? acrouss at gte.net writes: << As I and the rest of my household are very busy when we're at SCA events, we often dont do a hot breakfast, but instead do a "brunch" of the lunch foods mentioned above, along with some harboiled eggs and some sticky rolls. >> My household is also VERY busy during WAR! I am the only non-combatant (and I will soon be joining their ranks, when Brother William finishes my bow.) and we all volunteer (we have several people who are deputy autocrats for Estrella.) Because of our busy schedules I will not allow anyone to leave camp without a good hot breakfast, because they may not eat again until after dark. I usually make a grain porridge of some sort . You can find pre-mixed bags of the stuff at most groceries, or go to the bulk foods section and mix your own. I serve it with honey, and butter, and I usually throw some raisins and pine nuts into the pot.At Estrella XIII (the Monsoon War) on Sunday morning after our food tent had been inundated (not to mention the now famous floating air mattress bit) I drove into Goodyear and bought instant oatmeal and enough dry firewood to make a fire, because we REALLY needed something warm in us right away. For those who do not know, Estrella is held in the Desert of Atenveldt in February, our coldest month. Daytime temps can be in the nineties, but are usually in the eighties. Lows are in the thirties and forties. You can expect at least one windstorm and one day of rain and you'll probably wake up one morning with a rim of ice on all the standing water. Biggest health problem (despite the rumors of respiratory problems plaguing the last one) is heat exhaustion, followed by sunburn. Mordonna The Cook SunDragon Western Reaches Atenveldt (m.k.a. Buckeye, AZ) Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 13:26:20 EDT From: LrdRas at aol.com Subject: SC - Marshall's Breakfast-Will's revenge-Menu Here is the menu I used for the Marshal's breakfast at Will's Revenge VIII, May 6, A.S. XXXVIII: Hanony (period) Sausage Rolls (period like) Cinnamon Rolls (not period) Cantaloupe (period) Orange Juice (not period) Milk (period) Coffee (not period) Since breakfast consisted of leftovers from the night before or used trenchers soaked in wine, I was severely restricted in composing a menu for this meal. I decided to go with hearty foods that were humorally balanced. My assistants were 2 of my students> Lord Cadoc, Elysant and a third person who is new to the shire (name unremembered :-( ). The meal was, from lack of leftovers and no waste, well received. Ras Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 19:29:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com> Subject: SC - Speculating on breakfast ... As far as I have seen, there is no documentation as to when waffles, french toast or pancakes were eaten, although there is a painting of a 12th Night Feast that has waffles as part of the feast and it was clearly an evening meal. In the book "The Sensible Cook", Peter Rose states that the Dutch breakfast mostly consisted of bread, cheese and beer. Although she later talks of pancakes and waffles and how the Dutch loved them, she doesn't exactly talk about when they were eaten, just that they were a frequent part of the Dutch diet. After looking again at some of recipes I quoted earlier today, I am wondering and speculating about just how the Dutch thought about pancakes and waffles. Some of the recipes are not sweet at all. Some are sweet just as ours are. But could they have thought of these just as we might think of a slice of bread? Sometimes we eat bread just with butter, but sometimes we add honey or jelly or peanut butter. Could the Dutch have treated a pancake just like a piece of bread? This is an interesting thought ... Huette Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 00:52:07 EDT From: allilyn at juno.com Subject: Re: SC - Sawgeat-recipe and comments Sawgeat is in Book IV, Forme of Cure Hieatt, Constance & Butler, Sharon. CURYE ON INGLYSCH. Oxford University Press. 1985. 14th century English recipes. Originals only, no transliterations or redactions. Good glossary. RECOMMENDED. 5 Books, similar in content. Also contains I. Diursa Cibaria, II Diversa Servica, III Utilis Coquinario, IV, Forme of Cure, and V Goud Kokery. I have made a modern transliteration of Book IV, Forme of Cure, which is the manuscript that has most of the recipes, and which may be considered the base collection--not the oldest manuscript, but " it is the only complete manuscript with a minimum disruption in the order of recipes, as this order can be observed through a comparative study of the whole group." Their introduction contains a good bit of valuable information, as above, and they also have a noted glossary in back. (This info for the newer members of the list who've been wondering what Hieatt was.) 169. Sawgeat. Sage. Take sage; grind it and mix it with eggs. Take a sausage and dice it, and put it in a small pan, and add grease and fry it. when it is fried enough, add the sage and eggs; scramble lightly. Add powder douce and serve it. If it is an Ember Day, take sage, butter, and eggs, and let it stand well by the sage, and serve it forth. This is the modern English transliteration. What it means by 'let it stand well...' means to leave it a while before cooking, so that the flavors of the sage will permeate the egg mixture, becoming strong enough to overcome the lack of sausage. We talked a while ago about substitutions. This doesn't say to use any meat other than sausage, so if you preferred to use ham, it would then be 'peri-oid' Most any experienced cook would know that if you had no sausage, but you had baked or boiled ham left-overs, you naturally throw in the ham, but this is what we mean by not having the documentation. Cooks that use the Islamic and Jewish corpus can post if there are variations in their recipes that use eggs and a non-pork meat in this way. Allison, allilyn at juno.com Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 16:20:46 -0400 From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net> Subject: Re: SC - Fw: [CALONTIR] Bread The Northumberland Household Book (c. 1512) has a whole section on what everyone ate for breakfast, from the Earl and his family down to the stable boys. The one constant was bread. The Earl and the Countess got 2 loaves of the finest white bread, accompanied by more bread sliced into trenchers, plus wine, and fish or meat, according to the season. The gentlemen ushers got coarser "household" bread, beer, and boiled beef or salt fish. The stable boys got household bread and beer. Lady Brighid ni Chiarain Settmour Swamp, East (NJ) Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 17:02:41 EST From: Bronwynmgn at aol.com Subject: Re: Thanks and Breakfast question, was Re:SC - What would you do? jenne at mail.browser.net writes: << Now, how about some suggestions for period foods that modern eaters would percieve as 'breakfast' foods? I've tried the Orange Omelette and didn't find it palatable, but I'm definitely looking at Hanoney (eggs with onions, what's not to like?) >> I have successfully served Payn Purdew (French toast without the cinnamon) and Brown Fries (same idea but brown bread with saffron instead of cinnamon) for breakfast, as well as Hanoney (which I've actually been making all my life anyway). Meselade is scrambled eggs on toast, with a little sugar sprinkled on. The arbolettys in Take a Thousand Eggs, (while Cindy Renfrow has told me she thinks the original is a scribal error), makes a very tasty herb and cheesy omeletty sort of unit. Duke Cariadoc apparently has another version on his website, although the project I wanted to include it in is somewhat on hold right now, so I haven't looked it up... Brangwayna Morgan Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 19:52:49 -0500 From: "micaylah" <dy018 at freenet.carleton.ca> Subject: Re: Thanks and Breakfast question, was Re:SC - What would you do? > Now, how about some suggestions for period foods that modern eaters would > percieve as 'breakfast' foods? > I've tried the Orange Omelette and didn't > find it palatable, but I'm definitely looking at Hanoney (eggs with > onions, what's not to like?), Carbonara, rice pudding, and plum mousse. > And of course bread. Other suggestions? I have also served Hanoney but after trying it the first time (for 40 many years ago) I would suggest trimming back a little on the onions for mass consumption. Unless your "crowd" likes very onion-y eggs of course. I always have this for the "brekkie staple" at least once at camping event weekends as it is a good source of protienish food for those fighters among your foodgroup. <whisper> I sometimes also like to throw in some chopped apple too. As well, I also serve back bacon or ham, complete that with griddle cakes of some sort and poof you have a breakfast. Sausage is also an alternative. Grain cereals (Cream of Wheat/Oatmeal/whatever) with some fruit and cheese on the side could also be a quick filling first meal. And of course...coffee. It is really quite amazing how popular you can be first thing in the morning when there is unlimited coffee wafting its way thru the encampment! Makes breakfast a populated and enjoyable thing. Great way to start the day! Micaylah ~whose favourite meal just might be breakfast!~ Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 21:33:57 US/Eastern From: harper at idt.net Subject: Re: Thanks and Breakfast question, was Re:SC - What would you do? Jadwiga Zajaczkowa wrote: > Now, how about some suggestions for period foods that modern eaters would > percieve as 'breakfast' foods? IIRC, Granado has a number of egg recipes that might be suitable. Scrambled eggs, for one (though they are sprinkled with rosewater and sugar, I think.) And I think there's another egg dish with sage in it. Fritters, perhaps cheese fritters, might go over well. Maybe some of the porridge-type dishes like frumenty, ordiate, and avenate (wheat, barley, and oats). I'm away from my sources, but I can take a look when I get home, which will probably be early afternoon Saturday, to avoid the snow. Brighid Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 05:51:46 +0100 From: "Christina van Tets" <cjvt at hotmail.com> Subject: SC - breakfast Food! Breakfast! What about breakfast! (To quote Tim Severin) Some time back I started preparing a paper on breakfast - I wonder where it got to? From memory - Thomas Peacham (late Elizabethan, wrote in old age in early Stuart period) talks of - shocking! - spoiled children being given wine caudles or white bread with almond butter. I have a Flemish recipe for almond butter, which I will post as soon as I find it, unless someone else beats me to it. Thomas Tusser talks (this is really straining the memory) of frumenty and salt meat. Check the Floriwhatsit; I know that post was in there. Yes, there is lots of stuff from the Ingatestone Hall records. mainly brown and white bread, salt fish, small beer/ale, ham/cold roast meat, chicken. One totally unsubstantiated source (Elizabeth Taylor - not the same, I trust) said QE1 had chicken broth for breakfast. Personally I'd serve porridge, bread, almond butter, real butter, coldhamcoldtonguecoldturkey (sorry Kenneth Grahame) and I'd seriously consider doing a caudle (or a curdle in my case). Cairistiona Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 11:12:45 +0100 From: "Christina van Tets" <cjvt at hotmail.com> Subject: SC - re-hash of my breakfast notes plus recipe Hello again! A few days ago I promised to post my notes on 16th C breakfasts. Here they are in point form: 1. Northumberland Household book (1512). 2 boys of the Percy family (I don't have the whole record, just this much - apparently the 2 nursery children received the same, omitting the household bread), the elder 11 years old, received daily for their breakfast: 1/2 loaf household bread (according to Elizabeth David a loaf was about a lb.); 1 manchet (soft white roll of about 6-8 oz - ED); 1 dish butter (1 1/2 lb - ED); 2 qts beer; 2 kinds salt fish, or 1 chicken, or 3 mutton bones. 2. According to Elizabeth Burton (not Taylor; sorry about that mistake in my earlier message!), William Harrison (1577) says in his Description of England that upper-class Elizabethans did not bother with breakfast, since they dined at the latest at midday. I don't have the original quote. 3. Thomas Tusser (in the Good Huswives Day) tells the wife to have a breakfast of pottage and meat ready just after dawn. 4. Thomas Peacham (the Truth of our Times, publ. 1638, posthumously, I think - he was tutor to a nobleman's children in the Eliz period)writes of a spoiled child who was given a caudle or a manchet with almond butter as his breakfast. 5. I have seen undocumented sources which claim that manual labourers ate cheese instead of meat, tho' contemporary sources seem to indicate that cheese is preferred last thing at night as it prevents further nourishment. So, my suggestion for a 16th C breakfast easily produced in the CMA would be: ordinary (maybe half-brown) bread; soft white bread (ideally large rolls); butter, porridge (on the grounds that you _could_ call it a pottage); cold chicken or other cold meat, or on a fast day kippers or other salt/smoked fish. If I were in Adamastor I'd get some of the snoek from that nice little man in Obs who smokes them over old wine-barrel staves. Every day's a fast day when you can get that stuff! As far as I can work out, there are at least 10 recipes for caudle (chaudeau, candeel, wijnsuypen) in easily accessible period works - and not all of them need alcohol! - so won't give that recipe, but you may enjoy this one for almond butter: Een notabel boecxken van cokeryen, Thomas van der Noot, Brussels, ca. 1514 92. Om te makenne een prosint van amandelen ende dit om vyer schotelen. Neempt amandelen ende stoot die in eenen mortyer, ontrynt vyer ponden. Alse ghestooten sijn, doetse duere eenen stramijn met wat wermen watere. Mair siet toe, dat dye amandelen dic ghenoech bliven. Doet tot desen amadelen een vyerendeel suyckers. Dan siedet al tesamen dye doergedaen amandelen met den suyckere in een panne. Alst ghesoden is, soe doetse af ende legtse op eenen stramijn oft op nieuwe lijnwaet. Daer laetse alsoe vercouwen ofte verslain. Dan legtse in die schotelen in amaieren van boteren, ghelijck men die boter slaet. Hyerna neempt dye alderschoonste amandelen die mogelijck sijn om crighen. Die suldi in twe stucken sniden, rechs in de helft. Dan snijt noch die helft in drye ghelijcke stucken lancx ende deen helft suldy gheluwen in sofferaen. Dan steltse al rustich met langhen rancken op die stucken van amandelenbotere. Ende als ghise dyenen wilt, so ghietere melck in dye schotele. Maer huet wel dat den stucken van den amandelen niet ghenake. 92. To make a present (a subtlety, perhaps?) of almonds, and this for four dishes. Take almonds and grind them in a mortar, about four pounds. When they are ground, pass them through a sieve with warm water. But see that the alsmonds remain thick enough. Add to these almonds a fourth part (i.e. a pound) of sugar. Then boil the sieved almonds all together with the sugar in a pan. When it is boiled, take it off (the fire) and lay it on a sieve or on a new piece of linen. Thus let it cool there. Then lay it in dishes in the manner of butter, just as one beats butter into shape. After this take the best almonds which it is possible to obtain. You shall cut them in two pieces, exactly in half. Then cut that half in three equal pieces lengthways and colour half of them yellow in saffron. Then put them decoratively in an upright border on the pieces of almond butter. And when you wish to serve it, so pour milk in the dish. But be careful that it does not reach the almond pieces. Wow! No wonder Peacham thought the child was spoiled! Cairistiona Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 23:33:23 -0800 From: "Bonne of Traquair" <oftraquair at hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Thanks and Breakfast question, was Re:SC - What would you do? >One possibility for a period breakfast is leftovers from dinner the >night before. >David/Cariadoc Do plan to work with the leftovers. In my experience, people will eat leftover roast meat at an event breakfast, though they might not at home. Warm it up, slice it and set it out on a platter. Leftover breads and cooked fruits or desserts will also be eaten. Others responded that you could try getting whole oat groats (not rolled, not steel cut) and grind them yourself in order to have a period oatmeal. Unground oat groats, depending on how long and how much water you add over the amount needed to actually cook them, can have a texture can ranging from fluffy pilaf through soupy gruel to pasty porrige. I like the pilaf stage myself, my husband prefers the farther end of the spectrum, and starts talking like his mum when he's eating it. So, you don't necessarily have to grind them, just add more water and cook longer. (IMO, if you are going for the pasty porridge stage, you might as well use the cheapest rolled oats, once it's porridge, no one can tell what you started with anyway. ) Bonne Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 12:33:05 -0800 From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com> Subject: Re: Thanks and Breakfast question, was Re:SC - What would you do? Back at the end of December, Jenne Heise wrote: >Now, how about some suggestions f