beer-in-food-msg – 5/3/20

Period recipes with beer or ales in them.

NOTE: See also the files: beer-msg, ale-msg, brewing-msg, soup-msg, bread-msg, cider-msg, wine-msg, wine-cooking-msg, small-beer-msg.

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    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
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From: jtn at cse.uconn.EDU (J. Terry Nutter)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Cooking with beer
Date: 8 Nov 1994 23:47:46 -0500

Hi, all, Angharad ver' Rhuawn here,

Angelica Paganelli writes:
> Medieval recipes involving beer?  I haven't made any great study of medieval
> cookery (I have the usual secondary sources--Pleyn Delit, Fabulous Feasts,
> etc.), but I've never seen any.  Could be a social class thing.
> PERHAPS people who cooked with beer didn't write down their recipes.
> Perhaps people didn't cook with beer 'cause they didn't like the taste.
> Perhaps people didn't cook with beer because it was considered a waste of
> beer.
> Perhaps the recipes out there, and I haven't seen them.  Whatever happened to
> the person who was redacting a German cookbook?  Any recipes containing
> beer in there?
 
I don't know about the _Buch von Guter Speise_, but there are English 
recipes that call for ale (although not beer, to the best of my knowledge).
It is not nearly so common as wine, but it is certainly not unknown.

Glancing over my records on what recipes contain what, I found the 
following:

From the last quarter of the 14th Century, I located seventeen recipes that
call for ale, two of which are for braggot (hot spiced ale), but the other 
fifteen of which are "ordinary" recipes.  That's about 3-4% of the recipes 
I have data on from that time.  These are all from Hieatt and Butler's 
_Curye on Inglysch_.  For the curious, the recipes (I have more or less 
regularized spellings; if you'd like spellings as they occur in the title 
of the recipe, and page number and recipe number citations, write me 
separately) calling for ale are, from Diuersa Servicia, Capons in Concy, 
Hens in Brouet, Hares in Cive, Hares in Talbots, Numbles, Brinews, Geese in 
Hochepot (as an alternative to wine), Soles in Brouet, Oysters in Brouet, 
and two recipes for Eels in Brouet; from Utilis Coquinario, Rapes and 
Mawmenny (the only mawmenny recipe of which I am aware that calls for ale); 
from Forme of Curye, Flaumpoints, Fritters of Parsnips, Skirrits and Apples,
and one of the Braggot recipes; and from Goud Kokery, the other Braggot
recipe.

From the fifteenth century, in Hieatt's _An Ordinance of Pottage_, ale 
appears slightly more frequently (ten recipes, for about 5% of the 
collection), most often as an explicit alternative to wine.  It appears as 
such an alternative in Chikeney, Cawdell, Charlet, Boiled Pevorade for 
Roasted Veal, Tarts of Flesh, Posset, and Cawdell of Almonds.  Soppes 
includes ale without options; Boiled Perch calls optionally for ale, but not
wine.

I don't have very good data on Austin's collection (I barely got started 
entering it before other matters drew me away from the project; I hope to
get back soon), but based on the first roughly thirty recipes, I found four
(Bursews, Fillets in Galantyne, Ballock Broth, and Soppes Chamberlain) that
call for ale.  In the case of the fillets recipe, it is provided as an 
option to broth.  In all other cases, it is simply listed as an ingredient.

Wine was far more common than ale as an ingredient; but ale was certainly
known.  As for beer, my impression (although I am not expert on the history
of brewing) is that I may be looking too early for grain-based beverages 
brewed with hops.

-- Angharad/Terry


Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 15:06:21 -0800
From: "James L. Matterer" <jlmatterer at labyrinth.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Recipe Request

upsxdls at Okstate.edu wrote:
> All, a brewing friend of mine has moved into a wonderful new manor.  He has
> several crates of beer that need to be used soon.  As a housewarming gift, I'm
> putting together recipes that include beer as an ingredient.  I have several
> bread and soup recipes, but am interested any recipes anyone would like to
> share.  If the recipe is period, I'd appreciate the reference, otherwise, let
> me know where it came from so I can correctly credit the source(s).  Thanks
> in advance.

Oyle soppes - (onion & ale soup) from Harleian MS 4016: Oyle soppes.
Take a good quantite of onyons, and myce hem, noyt to smale, & seth hem
in faire water, And take hem vppe; and then take a good quantite of
stale ale, as .iij. galons, And there-to take a pynte of goode oyle that
is fraied, and cast the onyons there-to, And lete al boyle togidre a
grete wile; and caste there-to Saffron and salt, And then put brede, in
maner of brewes, and cast the licour there-on, and serue hit forth hote.

My translation: Oil Sops. Take a good quantity of onions, and mince
them, not to small, & boil them in fair water, And take them up; and
then take a good quantity of stale ale, 3 gallons, And take a pint of
good oil that is fried, and cast the onions in it, And let all boil
together a great while; and cast into it Saffron & salt, And then put
bread, in the manner of brews, and cast the liquid on, and serve it
forth hot.

Huen


Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 10:09:25 -0500
From: "Nick Sasso" <Njs at mccalla.com>
Subject: SC - Beer/Ale recipe. . . Flathonys

This is a glorious recipe for a custard pie made with ale.  We served it as
part of a feast this last weekend and was received exceedingly well.
Cariadoc also has a good version in his cookbook that can be found on-line
at   http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/cariadoc/desserts.html#19.

Flathonys
(Two 15th Century Cookery Books: Harleian MS. 279)

Flathonys.  Take mylke, and yolks of egges and ale, and draw hem thorgh a
straynour, with white sugur or black; and melt faire butter, and put thereto
salt, and make faire coffyns, and put hem into a Nowne till flei be a little
hard; flen take a pile, and a dish fastened there-on, and fill fle coffyns
therewith of the seid stuffs and late hem bake while.  And Ven take hem oute
and serue hem forthe, and caste Sugur ynough on hem.

5 egg yolks   3 Tbl melted butter
2/3 c. cream   pinch salt
*  c. ale    pastry shell (or coffin1)
1/3 c. sugar   sugar to sprinkle on top.

Prepare pastry/pie shell before beginning custard.

Beat lightly the egg yolks, add milk and ale and whisk together till mixed.
Add sugar, melted butter and salt.  Combine and add to shell.  Bake at 350F
30 minutes until set and crust golden.

1Coffins were very tough, almost inedible crusts made of flour and water.
They were intended, it seems to be a holder for the filling rather than a
part of the consumed tart.


Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 13:19:56 -0800
From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Recipe Request

Leanna of Sparrowhaven asked for beer recipes; here are a couple, both 15th
c. English:

Flathonys
Two Fifteenth Century Cookery Books p. 73/68

Take mylke, and yolkes of egges, and ale, and drawe hem thorgh a straynour,
with white sugur or blak; And melt faire butter, and put thereto salt, and
make faire coffyns, and put hem into a Nowne til thei be a litull hard;
then take a pile, and a dissh fastned there-on, and fill the coffyns
therewith of the seid stuffe and late hem bake a while. And then take hem
oute, and serue hem forthe, and caste Sugur ynogh on hem. [end of original]

1/2 c milk      1/3 c ale       4 T butter
4 egg yolks     1/4 c sugar     1 t salt

Bake a pie shell. Beat together milk, egg yolks, ale, sugar. Melt butter,
add salt, beat into the liquid, trying to keep the butter from separating
out (the hard part). Pour into the pie shell, bake at 350° about 20-30
minutes. Sprinkle on sugar (about 1 T) after the flathon is reasonably
solid.

Stwed Mutton
Two Fifteenth Century Cookery Books p. 72

Take faire Mutton that hath ben roste, or elles Capons, or suche other
flessh, and mynce it faire; put hit into a possenet, or elles bitwen ii
siluer disshes; caste thereto faire parcely, And oynons small mynced; then
caste there-to wyn, and a litull vynegre or vergeous, pouder of peper,
Canel, salt and saffron, and lete it stue on the faire coles, And then
serue hit forthe; if he have no wyne ne vynegre, take Ale, Mustard, and A
quantite of vergeous, and do this in the stede of vyne or vinegre. [end of
original; thorns replaced by th]

Wine Version
1 1/2 lb boned lamb     2 T vinegar     1 t salt
1/4 c parsley   1 t pepper      3 threads saffron
2 medium onions (1 1/4 lb)      1/2 t cinnamon  about 1/2 c water
3/4 c wine

Beer Version
Substitute 1 c dark beer and 1/2 t ground mustard for the wine. Substitute
4 T of verjuice for the vinegar if you have it.

Roast the lamb (before boning) at 350° for about 1 hour, then chop it into
bite sized pieces. Chop onions fine. Combine all ingredients (and the
juices from roasting the lamb) in a covered stew pot; use enough water so
that there is just enough liquid to boil the meat in. Simmer it about 1/2
hour and serve it forth. It is good over rice.

Elizabeth of Dendermonde/Betty Cook


Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 14:24:32 +1100
From: WICKHAM  Raymond <raymond.wickham at customs.gov.au>
Subject: SC - recipes with beer or ale

31. Ein spise von bonen (A food of beans)
        Siude grüene bonen, biz daz sie weich werden. so nim denne
schoen brot und ein wenic pfeffers. dristunt als vil kümels mit ezzige
und mit biere. mal daz zu sammene und tu dar zu saffran. und seige abe
daz sode. und giuz dar uf daz gemalne. und saltz ez zu mazzen. und laz
ez erwallen in dem condiment und gibz hin.
        Boil green beans (This probably refers to something like fava
beans. These are not string beans. String beans are a New World food.)
until they become soft. So take then fine bread and a little pepper.
(Take) three times as much caraway with vinegar and with beer. Grind
that together and add saffron thereto. And strain the broth and pour the
color thereon and salt it to mass and let it boil in the condiment and
give out.
This recipe is from Ein Buch von guter spise
And was translated by Alia Atlas akatlas at mit.edu

Damocles Truhart


Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 13:17:21 -0800 (PST)
From: Huette von <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>
Subject: SC - Salmon recipe with beer

Here is a recipe that I have used many times that
covers two requests!

>From Gervase Markham's The English Huswife:

To seeth fresh Salmon.

Take a little water, and as much Beere and Salt,
and put thereto Parsley, Time, and Rosemarie, and
let all thes boyle together; then put in your
Salmon, and make your broth sharpe with some
Vinigar.

My redaction:

2 pounds salmon (either steaks or filets)
2 tbsp olive oil
1 can or 2 cups beer
salt and pepper to taste
1/4 cup chopped parsley
2 tbsp thyme
2 tbsp rosemary
1 tbsp vinegar

Put olive oil in heavy skillet and add salmon
(cover both sides of salmon with olive oil).
Add beer, then sprinkle on seasonings.  Simmer
for 10-15 min. (depending on thickness of the
salmon).  Add vinegar and simmer for 1 min. longer.

For a feast, you can eliminate the skillet and
use instead jelly-roll baking sheets (i.e.
cookie sheets with a one inch high side all around).
Place in the oven for 10-15 min. and you will get
just the same effect.

Huette


Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 16:17:05 -0600 (CST)
From: "Michael F. Gunter" <michael.gunter at fnc.fujitsu.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Salmon recipe with beer

> From Gervase Markham's The English Huswife:
>
> To seeth fresh Salmon.
>
> Take a little water, and as much Beere and Salt,
> and put thereto Parsley, Time, and Rosemarie, and
> let all thes boyle together; then put in your
> Salmon, and make your broth sharpe with some
> Vinigar.
>
> My redaction:

<snipped>

It's a lovely period recipe but I do wonder about your
redaction. Basically the period recipe is calling for
making a rich broth of beer, herbs, salt and vinegar
then poaching the fish.

There's no oil or pepper mentioned and I do wonder about
the use of even a high sided jelly roll pan to poach
fish in.

Please believe that I'm not flaming or attacking you
but this is one of the simpler period recipes and do
wonder how you came about with this redaction. Did you
try it following Markham's recipe and find it lacking?

> Huette

Gunthar


Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 22:18:30 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: Let them eat fish! was Re: SC - Can medieval food beheart-smart?

LrdRas at aol.com wrote:
> ChannonM at aol.com writes:
> << What do you think about a beer based batter for cod?  >>
>
> I think it's great but I am unaware of any references to beer batter outside
> of the current century.
>
> Ras

At least not for fish. There are, I believe, fritter batters made with
ale in period sources. Most fish appears from the recipes to have been
fried uncoated, although a recipe in le Viandier says to fry (cuttlefish
or squid? I forget) without any coating of flour, which suggests it was
sometimes done.

If you really want to be technical, fresh cod seems like a fairly
unlikely choice, because most cod would have been caught in waters
pretty far from the European mainland. Not all, but most. Much of the
cod referred to in period sources would seem to be either salt or air-dried.

On the other hand, it's (relatively) cheap, firm, white, and not too
bony, so a fairly good choice for food nerds to have a go at if you're
trying to get the piscophagially (is that a word?) challenged to eat
something different.

Adamantius


Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 00:44:33 -0500 (EST)
From: cclark at vicon.net
Subject: Re: SC - Recipes with Beer and Ale?

There are several of these in _Elinor Fettiplace's Receipt Book_. One is
"court sops" (p. 62), made with slices of toast and a mixture of ale, sugar,
and nutmeg. The toast is put in the liquid, and then it is cooked until dry.
(I suppose that means until the cooking vessel is dry, not the toast.)
Sprinkle with more sugar and nutmeg and let cool before serving. Looks
almost like French toast. :-)

Other recipes with ale include: fritters and pancakes (p. 74), a hot posset
(p. 88), poached carp or trout (p. 110), and a big currant cake (p. 137). I
recommend the cake, though it could do with a little salt in the dough
(perhaps just omitted by accident), and will have to be scaled down for most
ovens (for a modern oven, try using a large pizza pan). I haven't yet tried
the others.

There are also ale-batter fritters in earlier English sources (perhaps Forme
of Curye?).

Alex Clark/Henry of Maldon


Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 08:55:35 EST
From: RuddR at aol.com
Subject: SC - Re: Recipes with Beer and Ale?

CHYKONYS IN BRUETTE
Chicken in Ale Sauce

Take [an] Sethe Chykonys, & smyte hem to gobettys;  (th)an take Pepir,
Gyngere, an Brede y-grounde, & temper it vppe wyth (th)e self brothe, an with
Ale; an coloure it with Safroun, an sethe an serue forth.
Harleian MS 279

3 or 4 pounds chicken, cut into serving pieces.
2 T butter
3/4 C ale or beer
3/4 C broth from boiled chicken
1/2 tsp each pepper and powdered ginger
1/4 tsp saffron
1 C white bread crumbs
Salt to taste

1.  In a large pot or heavy frying pan, over medium heat, melt butter and
brown the chicken well on all sides.

2.  Add water to the pot, just covering the chicken, bring to a boil, reduce
heat, and simmer, covered, for thirty minutes, or until chicken is cooked
through and tender.  Remove from heat.

3.  With a basting nozzle or ladle, draw off 3/4 cup of the broth in the pot.

4.  In a saucepan, over medium heat, combine broth, ale, and spices.  Stir in
bread crumbs, bring to a boil, reduce heat, and simmer, stirring
occasionally, for about five minutes.

5.  Arrange chicken pieces on a serving platter, and pour the sauce over them.

Serves four to six.

Rudd Rayfield


From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
To: "'sca-cooks at ansteorra.org'" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] Reference to 'stale' ale.
Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 08:21:06 -0500

I think it may show up in To The King's Taste, but I'm far away from my
copy.

However, in Middle English, "stale" can mean settled or clear, probably from
the Germanic "estal" meaning stand or standing place.  So a "stale ale" is
probably one which has been left standing to let the particles settle out.

Bear

> My group is having a small cooking session this weekend and
> we're going for onion soup (orig. recipe from Harleian MS
> 4016) among other things.  The recipe calls for stale ale.
> I remember reading that 'stale' often referred to old, mature
> ale and not 'flat' as in modern english.  (the ale would
> probably have been flat anyway).  However, I can't remember
> where I read this and I've checked Heiatt's 'Curuye on
> Inglysch' (sp?), Hagen's 'Anglo-Saxon Food...' and Renfrow's
> 'A Sip Through Time' but not found it anywhere.
>
> Anyone out there who can provide a ref.?
> /Angus MacIomhair, out of lurking once more.


Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 10:45:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: Angus <angus at iamawitch.com>
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Subject: [Sca-cooks] onion soup result

Thanks to all who offered comments on the onion soup or references to 'stale' ale.

We ended up cooking the soup with 'Falcon Bayersk 2,8%' a lightly hopped beer.  I don't know the exact BU value but 15-20 is probably a good guess.  It was cooked for approx. 90 minutes and the result was good but a little salty since the person who salted the soup added salt by the teaspoons and didn't stir enough before tasting (she dumped the salt at one side of the pot and tasted from the opposite side).

Two people who aren't members of the group attended and they seemed to like what was served.

The main course was grilled fish with roasted chickpeas and various sauces. A few who had chicken instead of fish due to allergies made the allium ex amygdala sauce which was liked by everyone.

/Angus MacIomhair


Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 09:41:48 +0200
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
From: "Cindy M. Renfrow" <cindy at thousandeggs.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Reference to 'stale' ale.

<snip>  However, I can't remember where I read this and I've checked
<snip>.' and Renfrow's 'A Sip Through Time' but not found it anywhere.
>
>/Angus MacIomhair,

Hi!  Right author, wrong book, if this is what you're thinking of.  This is
from Take a Thousand Eggs or More (vol 2, 2nd edition).

Footnote:
"The words stale and fryed can be interpreted in two different ways.  The
word stale, in conjunction with the word ale, can mean either clear
(settled and clarified), or stale (no longer fresh).  Fraid or fryid either
means fried as in 'already used,' or cold, from Fr. froid.
If we accept the definitions 'fried' oil and 'stale' ale, Oyle Soppys
becomes a barely edible concoction of stale ale, re-used oil, and boiled
onions - a dish fit for servants rather than for the high table.  However,
we cannot entirely dismiss this interpretation since it is quite evident,
based on the many recipes for entrails and leftover bits and scraps in our
collection, that our authors were frugal people.  The hopless ale of this
era, typically brewed in batches of a hogshead or more, spoiled quickly
(hops acts as a preservative as well as a flavoring agent; see note Vol. 1,
p. 155), and a soup that uses up stale ale and fried oil does make some
sense in this context.  Nonetheless, a soup which calls for clear ale would
be much more pleasant, and would also explain the presence of expensive
spices in this recipe."

Harleian MS. 279 - Potage Dyvers
xxxiij.  Oyle Soppys. Take a gode quantyte of Oynonys, and mynse hem not to
smale, an sethe in fayre Water:  [th]an take hem vp, an take a gode
quantite of Stale Ale, as .iij. galouns, an [th]er-to take a pynte of Oyle
fryid, an caste [th]e Oynonys [th]er-to, an let boyle alle to-gederys a
gode whyle; then caste [th]er-to Safroune, powder Pepyr, Sugre, an Salt, an
serue forth alle hote as tostes, as in [th]e same maner for a Mawlard & of
a capon, & hoc qu=E6re.

33.  Oil Sops.  Take a good quantity of Onions, and mince them not too
small, and seethe in fair Water:  then take them up, and take a good
quantity of Stale  Ale, as 3 gallons, and thereto take a pint of Oil fryed,
and cast the Onions thereto, and let boil all together a good while; then
cast thereto Saffron, powdered Pepper, Sugar, and Salt, and serve forth all
hot as toasts, as in the same manner for a Mallard & of a capon, & see this=


Harleian MS. 4016

130 Oyle soppes.  Take a good quantite of oynons, and myce hem, no[3]t to
smale, & seth hem in faire water, And take hem vppe; and then take a good
quantite of stale ale, as .iij. galons, And there-to take a pynte of goode
oyle that is fraied, and cast the oynons there-to, And lete al boyle
togidre a grete [while];  and caste there-to Saffron and salt, And [th]en
put brede, in maner of brewes, and cast the licour there-on, and serue hit
forth hote.

130.  Oil sops.  Take a good quantity of onions, and mince them, not too
small, & seethe them in fair water, And take them up; and then take a good
quantity of stale ale, as three gallons, And thereto take a pint of good
oil that is fraied,  and cast the onions thereto, And let all boil together
a great [while]; and cast thereto Saffron and salt, And then put bread, in
maner of [sops for] broth, and cast the liquor thereon, and serve it forth
hot.

Cindy Renfrow/Sincgiefu
cindy at thousandeggs.com
Author & Publisher of "Take a Thousand Eggs or More, A Collection of 15th
Century Recipes" and "A Sip Through Time, A Collection of Old Brewing
Recipes" http://www.thousandeggs.com


Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 16:00:25 -0400
From: Jadwiga Zajaczkwa / Jenne Heise <jenne at fiedlerfamily.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Boiling in Beer
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> Also sprach PatrickLevesque:
>> I was wondering, as I see a lot of recipes asking us to boil stuff in water,
>> vinegar, wine, milk, whatever... But never in beer.
>>
>> So how early can we document recipes asking the reader to boil food in
>> beer?
>>
>> Petru

From Rufina's handout on Pennsic without a Cooler:

Chykonys in Bruette

(Harleian MS. 279 (Potage Dyvers), .lxxxxvj)
"Take [an]Sethe Chykonys, & smyte hem to gobettys; than take Pepir,
Gyngere, and Brede y-grounde, & tempere it vppe wyth the selfe brothe,
an ith Ale; an coloure it with Safroun, and sethe an serue forth."

-- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa


Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 23:11:53 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Ale broth was  Boiling in Beer
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> Also sprach Patrick Levesque:
>> I was wondering, as I see a lot of recipes asking us to boil stuff in
>> water, vinegar, wine, milk, whatever... But never in beer.
>>
>> So how early can we document recipes asking the reader to boil food
>> in beer?
>>
>> Petru
>
> Off the top of my head, I can't quote anything, but I'm pretty sure
> there are some 14th century English recipes that speak of boiling in
> fine wort (mashed but unfermented ale) and in ale.
>
> Adamantius

There's this of course in the Liber  Cure Cocurum
  a Translation with Notes, by Cindy Renfrow...
ale bre = aleberry (alebrey, alebery, alebrue, alemeat) =
ale broth, a type of warm caudle. 132....
For sick men. <http://www.pbm.com/%7Elindahl/lcc/parallel.html#f122> Ale
broth thus make you shall,
With groats and saffron and good ale.
Take boiled water with honey, I know,
http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/lcc/parallel.html

Johnnae


Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 23:50:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Boiling in Beer
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Here is a recipe that is great and simple to
make.

Huette


From Gervase Markham's The English Huswife:

To seeth fresh Salmon.

Take a little water, and as much Beere and Salt,
and put thereto Parsley, Time, and Rosemarie, and
let all thes boyle together; then put in your
Salmon, and make your broth sharpe with some
Vinigar.


Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 17:35:45 +0100 (MET)
From: "Kai D. Kalix" <kdkalix at gmx.de>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Period gifts in jarsTo: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Lord Stefan wrote:
> http://www.florilegium.org/files/FOOD/beer-in-food-msg.html
>
> Of course I'd love to have any additinal ones if folks see that their
> favorite period one is not listed in there.

I do have redactions for the following (of cause, in german; I'll try to
translate them asap) which I think are missing from the beer-in-food-msg
(after glancing over it):

Take and shell oysters, and keep the water that cometh of them and strain
it, and put it in a pot, and ale thereto, and a little bread thereto; put
ginger, canel, powder of pepper thereo, saffron and salt; and when it is
enough almost, put on thine oysters: look that they been well y-washed for
the shells: and then serve forth.
Two Fifteenth Century Cookery-books, p. 23/56

Sooglagh Tullog
Rissoles in Lent
Take Figs & seethe them up i Ale; then take when they are tender, & bray
them small in a Mortar; then take almonds, & shred them therto smal; take
pears, & shred them thereto ; take dates, & shred them thereto & Haddock or
Ling, that is well soaked & tease therto then make thine tuffing, & roll
lehthwise in thisne hand& lay them in flour, then make thine batter with ale
& Flour, & fry them up brown in Oil; right so, make round-like Fritters in
the manner beforesaid, & fry them up, & that is called Ragons, & then serve
them foth.
Take a Thousand Eggs or More, a Collection of 15th Century Recipes, by Cindy
Renfrow, pg. 71

Gebratene Quitten from Philippine Welserin

Playce Ysod
Madeleine Pelner, Fabulous Feasts

To Stewe Stekes of Mutton
Take a legge of mutton and cot it in small slices, and put it in a chafer,
and put therto a pottell of ale, and scome it cleane then putte therto seven
or eyghte onions thyn slyced, and after they have boyled one hour, putte
therto a dyshe of swete butter, and so lette them boyle tyll they be tender,
and then put therto a lyttel peper and salte.
A Proper Newe Book of Cokerye, 1572

xvj. Fylettys en Galentyne
Take fayre porke, þe fore quarter, an take of þe skyne; an put þe porke on a
fayre spete, an rost it half y-now; þan take it of, an smye it in fayre
pecys, & caste it on a fayre potte; þan take oynonys, and schrede hem, an
pele hem (an pyle hem nowt to smale), an frye in a panne of fayre grece; þan
caste hem in þe potte to þe porke; þan take gode broth of moton or of beef,
an caste þe-to, an þan caste þer-to pouder pepyr, canel, clowys, an macys,
an let hem boyle wyl to-gederys; þan tak fayre brede, an vynegre, an stepe
þe brede with þe same brothe, an strayne it on blode, with ale, or ellys
sawnderys, & salt, an lat hym boyle y-now an serue it forth.
Harleian ms 279; Austin, Two Fifteenth Century Cookbooks.

kai


Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 09:31:09 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
From: Robin Carroll-Mann <rcmann4 at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Rotten meat and spices... (a few excerpts
	from	Apicius)
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

-----Original Message-----
From: David Friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>

For the "overspicing"  version, the earliest source I know is the introduction to _Two Fifteenth Century Cookery Books_, written at the end of the
nineteenth century. It's clear from context that the author is
reacting not to the amount of spices, which he has no information on,
but to the unfamiliar use of particular spices--I think to putting
cinnamon in soup in the example he mentions.

Anyone know of an earlier example?
-- 
David/Cariadoc
www.daviddfriedman.com
_______________________________________________

Not an earlier example, but here is the relevant portion of the  
introduction you mentioned, which was written in 1888.

"Many of the Recipes that are given here would astonish a modern Cook.  
Our forefathers, possibly from having stronger stomachs, fortified by  
outdoor life, evidently liked their dishes strongly seasoned and  
piquant, as the Cinnamon Soup on p. 59 shews. Pepper, Ginger, Cloves,  
Garlic, Cinnamon, Galingale, Vinegar, Verjuice, and Wine, appear  
constantly in dishes where we should little expect them; and even Ale  
was frequently used in Cookery. Wine is used in the recipe for Roast  
Partridge, on p. 78, and also, as seems more natural to us, in the  
Partridge Stews on pages 9 and 78: it is also used for Brawn in  
Poivrade on p. 71. Ale is introduced in the Bowres on p. 8, in the Sops  
Chamberlain on p. 11, and in the Mortrews de Chairon p. 71, and is even  
used in the Charlette on p. 17, though Milk is also one of the  
ingredients: both Ale and Wine appear in the Maumenny Royal, on p. 22.  
Ale is also used with the Tench in Bruet."

http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/c/cme/cme-idx? 
type=HTML&rgn=DIV1&byte=3361621

Brighid ni Chiarain
Barony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom


Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 13:06:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] A pleasant Italian Fish recipe
To: TomRVincent at yahoo.com, Cooks within the SCA
	<sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Here is a period recipe that I have made at a banquet for 300.  Even  
people who professed to hate salmon and fish said they liked this:

From Gervase Markham's The English Huswife:

To seeth fresh Salmon.

Take a little water, and as much Beere and Salt,
and put thereto Parsley, Time, and Rosemarie, and
let all thes boyle together; then put in your
Salmon, and make your broth sharpe with some
Vinigar.

I also make this for my family, although I simplify it down  
considerably.

For them, I pour a can of beer into a deep frying pan and add the spices.
When boiling, I put in the salmon, either steaks or fillets and then
sprinkle with balsamic vinegar.  It usually takes about 10 to 12 minutes
to poach the salmon.

Huette


Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 15:41:13 -0700
From: Maggie MacDonald <maggie5 at cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] period oion soups
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

At 02:27 PM 9/6/2006,Gretchen Beck said something like:

> Why not try the oyle sops from the two-15th C cookery books; it can be
> interpreted as an onion soup in a beer base:
>
> .xxxiij. Oyle Soppys.?Take a gode quantyte of Oynonys, an mynse hem not to
> smale, an sethe in fayre Water: ?an take hem vp, an take a gode quantite of
> Stale Ale, as .iij. galouns, an ?er-to take a pynte of Oyle fryid, an caste
> ?e Oynonys ?er-to, an let boyle alle to-gederys a gode whyle; then caste
> ?er-to Safroune, powder Pepyr, Sugre, an Salt, an serue forth alle hote as
> tostes, [leaf 11.] as in ?e same maner for a Mawlard & of a capon, & hoc
> qu?re.*

I did that particular oil soppys for Caid 12th night 2006.  It went over
very very well.  My biggest tip would be to seriously brown the onions in
batches if you're making very large quantities. I had attempted to brown
them by baking since I was doing a 20 lb bag of onions at one time, and it
was less than successful.

On the upside, this gives your local brewers a chance to shine by making
you a brew to use in the soup.  We used a very light ale, and it was just
fantastic. This was also done on a very small scale with Guinness, and that
was also pretty nice (though not every one appreciated the slight
bitterness of guinness).

Maggie MacD.


Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2012 08:04:21 -0700
From: "Daniel Myers" <dmyers at medievalcookery.com>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Cooking with Beer

Here are the recipes using beer that I found on a quick search:

- Doc 

====

How to seeth Shrimps. Take halfe water and halfe beere or Ale, and some
salt good and savery, and set it on the fire and faire scum it, and when
it seetheth a full wallop, put in your Shrimpes faire washed, and seethe
them with a quick fire, scum them very clean, and let them have but two
walmes, then take them up with a scummer, and lay them upon a fair white
cloth, and sprinkle a little white salt upon them.

[A Book of Cookrye, (England, 1591)]

====

To bake Venison of Fallow Deere. Lay it in water and wash it very clean,
then perboile it, if it be of the side, raise the skin of it: if it be
of the haunch, presse it: season it with pepper and salt, take good
store of Dre Suet, and mince it very fine, when you have minced it, beat
it, then take flowre, butter and Egges and make your paste stiffe, then
drive it out, and then put in your suet and Venison and close it, then
take the yolk of an egge and a little beere, and wet it over, and let it
bake foure houres, and then serve it in.

[A Book of Cookrye, (England, 1591)]

====

How to make sops of Almain. Take white wine with Beere or Ale, and put
crums of white bread, yolks of Egs sugar and sinamon, with Salt and
saffron, strain these and boile them a little togither then cut white
bread into your dishe, and put the pottage to it, and so serve it
foorth.

[A Book of Cookrye, (England, 1591)]

====

31. Ein spise von bonen (A food of beans). Siude gr?ene bonen, biz daz
sie weich werden. so nim denne schoen brot und ein wenic pfeffers.
dristunt als vil k?mels mit ezzige und mit biere. mal daz zu sammene
und tu dar zu saffran. und seige abe daz sode. und giuz dar uf daz
gemalne. und saltz ez zu mazzen. und laz ez erwallen in dem condiment
und gibz hin.

Boil green beans (This probably refers to something like fava beans.
These are not string beans. String beans are a New World food.) until
they become soft. So take then fine bread and a little pepper. (Take)
three times as much caraway with vinegar and with beer. Grind that
together and add saffron thereto. And strain the broth and pour the
color thereon and salt it to mass and let it boil in the condiment and
give out.

[Ein Buch von guter spise, (Germany, ca. 1345 - Alia Atlas, trans.)]

====

XCIIX - A good broth from salmon, sturgeon, pig's game or other. Take
apples, red onion and sweet beer that doesn't taste of hops. Let it
seethe with each other, so the apples and onion become soft. Take
toasted bread, grate it with the apples and onion, put it through the
sieve and give herbs thereto.

[Koge Bog, (Denmark, 1616 - Martin Forest, trans.)]

====

174 What to do to beer, so that it can be kept for a long time without
becoming sour. First, broach the cask, let two pints or more drain off
into a glazed pot. Take a handful of coriander seeds, make a small
bundle out of them in a clean white cloth, but not too big, so that you
will be able to put it into the top of the beer keg at the bunghole. Tie
it closed with a string, leaving a long piece. After that lay the bundle
with the coriander in the pot, set it on the fire, let it boil together
for about as long as a hard-boiled egg, do not let it run over.
Afterwards set the pot with the beer aside and let it fully cool. You
should not cover it. After that bring clay from a potter which should
not have been worked, knead salt into it and work them together, then it
will be nice and soft. Next take three freshly laid eggs and throw them
unopened into the beer from the top. After that hang the small bundle
with the coriander seeds in it, also pour the beer from the pot into it,
take a good handful of hops from a beer brewer and close up the top of
the bunghole by spreading it with the hops. Afterwards set a small
unglazed pot over it on top and plaster it up well along the rim.

[Das Kuchbuch der Sabina Welserin, (Germany, 16th century - V.
Armstrong, trans.)]

====

BOUCHET. To make six sixths of bouchet, take six pints of fine sweet
honey, and put it in a cauldron on the fire and boil it, and stir
continually until it starts to grow, and you see that it is producing
bubbles like small globules which burst, and as they burst emit a little
smoke which is sort of dark: and then stir, and then add seven sixths of
water and boil until it reduces to six sixths again, and keep stirring.
And then put it in a tub to cool until it is just warm; and then strain
it through a cloth bag, and then put it in a cask and add one chopine
(half-litre) of beer-yeast, for it is this which makes it the most
piquant, (and if you use bread yeast, however much you like the taste,
the colour will be insipid), and cover it well and warmly to work. And
if you want to make it very good, add an ounce of ginger, long pepper,
grains of Paradise and cloves in equal amounts, except for the cloves of
which there should be less, and put them in a cloth bag and throw in.
And after two or three days, if the bouchet smells spicy enough and is
strong enough, take out the spice-bag and squeeze it and put it in the
next barrel you make. And thus you will be able to use these same spices
three or four times.

[Le Menagier de Paris, (France, 1393 - Janet Hinson, trans.)]

====

For the fillets of a Veale, smoored in a Frying-panne. CUt them as for
Oliues: hacke them with the backe of a Knife: then cut Larde fine, and
larde them, then put them in a Frying-pan with strong Beere or Ale, and
frye them somewhat browne: then put them into a pinte of Claret Wine,
and boyle them with a little Sinamon, Sugar and Ginger.

[A NEVV BOOKE of Cookerie, (England, 1615)]

====

Carp in pottage. Take a carp well scaled & wash it, & cut it in four
pieces, & take onions fried in butter, a salted lemon cut into slices, a
nutmeg, a little ginger, marjoram & mint finely chopped, then put wine
or verjuice & butter, & put it to stew well also with a little beer.

[Ouverture de Cuisine, (France, 1604 - Daniel Myers, trans.)]


Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 19:5:22 -0800
From: "David Friedman"  <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA  <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Cooking with Beer

At Tue, 06 Mar 2012 08:04:21 -0700, "Daniel Myers" wrote:
> Here are the recipes using beer that I found on a quick search:

You don't include flathonys--are you distinguishing between ale and beer?

Flathonys
Two Fifteenth Century p. 73
Take mylke, and yolkes of egges, and ale, and
drawe hem thorgh a straynour, with white sugur
or blak; And melt faire butter, and put thereto
salt, and make faire coffyns, and put hem into a
Nowne til thei be a litull hard; then take a pile,
and a dissh fastned there-on, and fill the coffyns
therewith of the seid stuffe and late hem bake a
while. And then take hem oute, and serue hem
forthe, and caste Sugur ynogh on hem.

David/Cariadoc
www.daviddfriedman.com
daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/


From the fb "SCA Cooks" group:
Nick Sasso
8/28/18

Flathonys

Redaction by: maestro niccolo difrancesco (Nick Sasso) 
Serving Size: 8

Ingredients:

1 cup milk 5 egg yolks 
1/4 cup sugar 1/2 cup dark ale or beer 
1 teaspoon salt 4 tablespoons unsalted butter -- melted 
1 1/2 tablespoons sugar -- sprinkled on top (garnish) 
1 pie crust (9 inch)

Prebake pie shell, weighted, for 15 minutes at 425F. Remove crust and reduce oven to 350 degrees F.

In saucepan, combine milk, sugar, ale and egg yolks. Heat gently over medium heat, stirring constantly until steam begins to rise off the surface. Stir in salt and melted butter with whisk. Pour into pie shell. 
Bake 10 to 15 until top just sets.

Sprinkle sugar across top of tart and continue cooking until just set (it will continue to cook slightly after removing from the oven).

Serve warm (or at room temperature if necessary).

Yield: 1 pie

Source: 
Two Fifteenth Century Cookery Books


From the fb "SCA Cooks" group:
Sharon Ann Palmer 
To answer the original question, from Rumpolt:

Suppen 27. Biersuppen mit Eierdottern süß gemacht/ vnd mit Butter auff sieden lassen/ machs gelb oder nicht/ vnd wenns aufgesotten hat/ so saltzs ein wenig.

27. Beer soup with egg yolks made sweet/ and with butter let come to a simmer/ make yellow or not/ and when it has simmered/ then salt it a little.

Suppen 47. Nimm weiß Bier/ thu Kümel vnd Butter darein/ laß nur darmit warm werden/ vnd nicht auff sieden/ vnd wenn du es wilt anrichten/ so schneidt Rucken Brot darvnter/ vnd saltz es/ so ist es ein wol geschmackte Biersuppen.

47. Take white (or wheat??) beer/ put caraway and butter into it/ let only get hot/ and not come to a simmer/ and when you want to dress it/ then slice rye bread under it/ and salt it/ like this it is a well tasting Beer soup.

Suppen 53. Nimm weiß Bier vnd süssen Rahm durcheinander/ vnd gute frische Butter/ laß darmit auff sieden/ vnd saltzs/ so ist es gut vnd auch wol geschmack.

53. Take white (or wheat??) beer and sweet cream together/ and good fresh butter/ let them simmer together/ and salt/ like this it is good and also well tasting.

Suppen 7. Milchsuppen vnd verlorne Eier darein/ oder schlag Eier auff/ vnd laß sie durch ein Härin Tuch laufen/ vnd wenn die Milch mit der Butter seudt/ so zeuch die Eier fein langsam darein/ vnd laß nur ein wenig sieden/ richts darnach in ein Schüssel auff gebeht Schnitten von einem Weck/ so ist sie gut.

7. Milk soup and poached eggs in it/ or break eggs/ and let it run through a hair cloth/ and when the milk with the butter simmers/ so pour the eggs very slowly into it/ and let it simmer only a little while/ then dress in a dish on toasted slices of a weck bread/ like this it is good. 
Suppen 8. Nimm sauren Rahm/ vnd thu Butter darein/ laß darmit auff sieden/ so ist es gut vnd wol geschmack.

8. Take sour cream/ and put Butter into it/ let it simmer together/ it is good and well tasting like this.

Suppen 9. Käßsuppen von einem Parmesankäß außgezogen/ die fein weiß ist/ den Käß mit Wasser gesotten/ oder halb Wasser vnd halb Erbeßbrüh/ ist gut vnd lieblich.
9. Cheese soup of a Parmesan cheese drawn/ that is very white/ boil the cheese with water/ or half water and half pea broth/ is good and lovely.
Suppen 10. Zigersuppen mit Wasser vnd Butter lassen auff sieden/ seig es durch ein Sib/ vnd versaltz sie nicht.
10. Ricotta soup with water and Butter let simmer/ pour it through a sieve/ and do not over salt it.

Ziger is soft, fresh cheese made with the buttermilk from making butter and the whey from making cheese, or made at home with vinegar and plain milk.

Suppen 23. Nimm Bretzel/ vnd weich sie im Saltzwasser/ thu sie auff eine Schüssel/ vnd besträw sie mit schwartzen Rosein vnd Jngwer/ begeuß mit heisser Butter/ so ist es auch gut. Oder besträw es mit Parmesankäß/ vnd geuß heisse Butter darüber.

23. Take pretzels/ and soften them in salt water/ put them on a dish/ and sprinkle them with black raisins and ginger/ baste with hot butter/ like this it is also good. Or sprinkle it with Parmesan cheese/ and pour hot butter over it.

Suppen 45. Nimm Zwibeln/ die geschelet sein/ schneidt sie fein breit vnd dünn/ setz sie mit Wasser zu/ vnd laß sieden/ nimm ein harten Käß/ der nicht faul ist/ vnd schneidt jn fein klein/ thu jhn in die Brüh/ darinn der Zwibel seudt/ thu gute Butter darein/ vnd laß auch mit sieden. vnd wenn du es wilt anrichten/ so schneidt von einem Weck fein dünn vnd breit/ richt die Brüh mit dem Käß darüber. Also essens die Vngerischen Herrn gern.

45. Take onions/ that are peeled/ cut them very wide and thin/ set them to (the fire) with water/ and let simmer/ take a hard cheese/ that is not spoiled and cut it very small/ put it into the broth/ where the onions simmered/ put good butter into it/ and let simmer together. And when you wish to dress it/ then slice of a weck bread very thin and wide/ arrange the broth with the cheese over it. The Hungarian lords enjoy eating like this.

Suppen 46. Nimm ein neuwen Käß/ der vber Nacht gemacht ist/ vnd rür jhn ab mit saurem Rahm/ thu frische Butter darein/ vnd laß darmit auff sieden/ so zergehet der Käß. vnd wenn du wilt anrichten/ so nimm gebeht Schnitten Brot/ oder von Weck/ vnd geuß die Brüh darüber/ so ist es ein gute Vngerische Käßsuppen.

46. Take a new cheese/ that was made overnight/ and stir it with sour cream/ put fresh Butter into it/ and let simmer together/ the cheese melts like this. And when you will dress it/ then take toasted sliced Bread/ or of weck bread/ and pour the broth over it/ like this it is a good Hungarian cheese soup.

Suppen 54. Mach ein Teig an mit einem Ei oder zwei/ vnd treib jn gar dünn auff/ walg jn fein vbereinander/ vnd mehls wol darzwischen/ schneidt jn fein klein/ nimm gute Erbeßbrüh/ Muscatenblüt vnd Butter darein/ setz auff Kolen/ vnd laß sieden/ zeuch die Nudel darein/ oder back sie in Butter. vnd wenn du sie wilt anrichten/ so richt es auff ein gebeht Schnitten Brot/ vnd sträw geriebenen Parmesankäß darüber/ begeuß mit heisser Butter/ vnd gibs warm auff ein Tisch/ so ist es ein gute Nudelsuppen.

54. Make a dough with an egg or two/ and drive it out very thin/ roll it up nicely over each other/ and flour it well between/ and cut very small/ take good pea broth/ mace and butter into it/ set on coals/ and let simmer/ pour the noodles into it or fry it in butter. And when you want to dress it/ arrange on a toasted sliced bread/ and strew grated Parmesan cheese over it/ baste with hot butter and give it warm on a table/ like this it is a good Noodle soup.

Sharon Ann Palmer 
Also, the Erbeßbrüh or pea broth mentioned is probably the water from cooking dry peas, not fresh peas.

<the end>
Edited by Mark S. Harris	beer-in-food-msg	Page 2 of 20