bag-cooking-msg - 4/25/08 Using plastic bags to warm pre-cooked foods at SCA events. NOTE: See also the files: caldron-cookg-msg, Camp-Cooking-art, canning-msg, cook-ovr-fire-msg, drying-foods-msg, no-fire-cook-msg, Preservng-CMA-art. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 00:18:15 -0700 To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org From: lilinah at earthlink.net Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Casbah! Feast, was Period Couscous References? "Mark S. Harris" <stefan at texas.net> wrote: >al-Sayyida Anahita al-Qurtubiyya bint 'abd al-Karim al-hakim al-Fassi said: > > I froze the chicken dish, the White Tharidah of al-Rashid, (about 14 > > gallons worth in zip-closed plastic bags) to avoid "church picnic > > chicken syndrome". The Seven Vegetable Tagine was bagged and just > > refrigerated (about 9 gallons). Fabian made 600 meatballs from the > > Andalusian recipe i sent him, and froze them, per my request. The > > couscous was made on site. > > > > However, the food was re-heated courtesy of the gracious hostess of > > the feast, Eliska, and quite a few generous volunteers who manned the > > pots of hot water. > >You froze the food in regular, store bought plastic zip lock bags? >Freezer bags or storage bags? Yes, I just used regular storage bags. I filled them about half-way (that is, i put about 1 gallon of cooked chicken in each two gallon bag - easier to handle, as it left bag to grip - i was afraid they'd burst if i filled them all the way, from the weight and strain). I put the bags in the freezer and rotated them every 1/2 hour or so, squishing them a bit to distribute the cold, until they got frosty. Then i left them to freeze when i was sure they were cold through. >And then you dropped the bags of food >including the plastic into the boiling water to thaw and warm them >up??? No, no, no! Would not be safe. We did immerse the bags in hot water, though... Someone kept pots of water simmering on a propane stove. Then periodically hot water was dipped out and added to the water in some large containers we had - tempered with cold water out of the spigot. I do not think the plastic the bags were made of would withstand boiling. Fabian says he wants to get double boilers for the next feast... >Sounds very convenient and a lot cleaner than emptying the bags >into pots and warming the food there, as my wife and I have been >doing for several years at Gulf Wars. Yes, it was convenient and we didn't have to wash out the pots. >The bags don't melt? Or >break open strewing the food into the boiling water? Hmmm. As i said above, we did not immerse the bags in the boiling water in the pots on the stove... I was afraid what you're afraid of would happen (besides health risks from heated plastic). After it was hot, the food was put into chafing dishes, the lower part filled with hot water, and 2 sterno cans beneath each dish to keep the food warm - when serving, the pans got refilled with hot food fairly quickly, so the food didn't sit around for long. Anahita Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 01:36:07 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger <mooncat at in-tch.com> To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Casbah! Feast, was Period Couscous References? This reminds me....many years ago, when Artemisia and Atenveldt were still one kingdom, I attended an Estrella War, and was kindly hosted by Duchy Tarragon. They did a lot of this boiling-bag stuff, too, although (IIRC) you've got to use the right bags--you can actually buy them, and a gadget that seals them. The thing I remember most clearly were the omelets (funny, considering it's another thread going on right now!)....Apparently, at some point before the war, the household would hold this omelet party, and they'd pre-make all the omelets. Into a single-serving bag would go X number of eggs (sans shells, natch), a certain amount of cheese, seasonings, etc. The bags were then frozen and transported. On the given day, the omelet bags were boiled, per instructions, and you just slit the bag, and dumped out this little squarish omelet--a little non-standard looking, but perfectly tasty, and very easy to prepare. --Maire, who *should* be packing! Patricia Collum wrote: > My girl friend (and Mistress, and war autocrat) fed our household at > Estrella war this way a couple of years ago. She called it "boiling-bag > cooking" (I've seen this mundanely before). She had whole coolers filled > with bags marked with the different days breakfast and dinner entrees in > roughly 2-people servings. Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 00:51:40 -0700 To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org From: david friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Casbah! Feast, was Period Couscous References? >Yes, I just used regular storage bags. I filled them about half-way >(that is, i put about 1 gallon of cooked chicken in each two gallon >bag - easier to handle, as it left bag to grip - i was afraid they'd >burst if i filled them all the way, from the weight and strain). > >I put the bags in the freezer and rotated them every 1/2 hour or so, >squishing them a bit to distribute the cold, until they got frosty. >Then i left them to freeze when i was sure they were cold through. > >>And then you dropped the bags of food >>including the plastic into the boiling water to thaw and warm them >>up??? > >No, no, no! Would not be safe. We did immerse the bags in hot water, >though... Someone kept pots of water simmering on a propane stove. >Then periodically hot water was dipped out and added to the water in >some large containers we had - tempered with cold water out of the >spigot. I do not think the plastic the bags were made of would >withstand boiling. >Anahita Sir Nathan in Calontir used to provide period food for the Calontiri royalty at Pennsic by a version of this approach. I believe he used a seal-a-meal or something similar, with bags that could be boiled. He also used a high quality cooler. To cooler was paced with bags of frozen food. For each meal, he pulled out the required bags and dumped them, still sealed, in a pot of boiling water. -- David/Cariadoc http://www.daviddfriedman.com/ From: "Michael Gunter" <countgunthar at hotmail.com> To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 11:29:15 -0500 Subject: [Sca-cooks] Freezing food >You froze the food in regular, store bought plastic zip lock bags? >Freezer bags or storage bags? And then you dropped the bags of food >including the plastic into the boiling water to thaw and warm them >up??? I've done this with most of my feasts. Pre-cook and bag them. Then, at the feast site either boil-in-bag, microwave or defrost and reheat. It depends on the dish and kitchen facilities When cooking for 300+ it is nice to have as many conveniences as possible. I also know ahead of time just how much food I have and what things need to be changed before the last minute. Of course it makes for some pretty late nights a few weeks before the feast and you need some place to keep it frozen. ("Excuse me, could we borrow your freezer? We have 50 gallons of Chicken Bruet that needs a home.) >The bags don't melt? Or >break open strewing the food into the boiling water? Hmmm. Get heavy duty freezer bags. And I sometimes double bag them just to be safe. >THLord Stefan li Rous Gunthar Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 09:45:51 -0700 To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org From: lilinah at earthlink.net Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Casbah! Feast, was Period Couscous References? David/Cariadoc wrote: >Sir Nathan in Calontir used to provide period food for the Calontiri >royalty at Pennsic by a version of this approach. I believe he used a >seal-a-meal or something similar, with bags that could be boiled. He >also used a high quality cooler. The cooler was paced with bags of >frozen food. For each meal, he pulled out the required bags and >dumped them, still sealed, in a pot of boiling water. Yes, Fabian is considering buying a Seal-A-Meal set up. The plastic used for this can withstand both freezing and boiling and, i think, microwaving, and the bags are heat sealed so they're less likely to pop open. So this is safer in several ways than using zip-shut plastic bags. He has a household and is thinking how convenient this would be for feeding the household at events - cook the food *well* ahead of time, freeze it, and pull out and pop it in the cooler for an event, then heat up the water and drop it in. I think this is a good idea for camping events, although i'd *never* do this for a feast... well, if various folks are cooking dishes ahead of time, some things can withstand home freezing - which takes longer than commercial, often forms ice crystals in the food which can change the texture to mushy, and if the packets aren't properly sealed the food gets freezer burn and tastes like the other stuff in the freezer... The meatballs were fine and the White Tharidah seemed not to suffer from being frozen for 2 days. But some things just don't survive home freezing without getting a weird texture. Anahita Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 13:04:25 -0400 To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org From: Gorgeous Muiredach <muiredach at bmee.net> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Freezing food >I've done this with most of my feasts. Pre-cook and bag them. >Then, at the feast site either boil-in-bag, microwave or defrost >and reheat. It depends on the dish and kitchen facilities Hate to be the one to raise attention to this again, but... Ya got to be careful how you do it. It works fine, and I've used that technique before. Just make sure that a)your contents are defrosted before you re-warm them and b)you use actual boiling water, not just lukewarm water... BTW, saranwrap and other wraps don't melt in boiling water, so just about any ziplock bag should handle boiling water without flinching. It's always a good idea to *under* bag though. If you fill the poor thing to the brim, it'll just want to explode ;-) Gorgeous Muiredach the Odd Clan of Odds Shire of Forthcastle, Meridies mka Nicolas Steenhout Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 13:09:59 -0400 From: "Sandra Kisner" <sjk3 at admin.is.cornell.edu> To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org> Subject: [Sca-cooks] boiling bags >BTW, saranwrap and other wraps don't melt in boiling water, so just about >any ziplock bag should handle boiling water without flinching. It's always >a good idea to *under* bag though. If you fill the poor thing to the brim, >it'll just want to explode ;-) It's been a long time since I tried boiling something in a bag, but I seem to recall that the problem was the bag touching the side of the pot, not the hot water, causing melting problems. Is this the case in the experience of anybody else? Sandra Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 12:33:37 -0500 (CDT) From: "Pixel, Goddess and Queen" <pixel at hundred-acre-wood.com> To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Freezing food > BTW, saranwrap and other wraps don't melt in boiling water, so just about > any ziplock bag should handle boiling water without flinching. It's always > a good idea to *under* bag though. If you fill the poor thing to the brim, > it'll just want to explode ;-) > > Gorgeous Muiredach the Odd Actually, I've had otherwise brand new out-of-the-box Hefty freezer bags die on me when the side seams came apart. I probably should have waited until the stew had cooled a bit more, but it wasn't boiling. It was hot to the touch but not so hot that I couldn't taste it without cooling. Once there was more than a ladle's worth of stew in the bag, it split open. Margaret the Perfectly Normal From: Marilyn Traber <marilyn.traber.jsfm at statefarm.com> To: "SCA-Cooks (E-mail)" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org> Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 12:37:47 -0500 Subject: [Sca-cooks] seal-a-meal I have had a seal a meal off and on since teh original 'daisey' seal-a-meal back in teh early 80s. I currently have the one they were flogging on TV about 5 years ago. I heartily recommend them. Mine hasn't gotten used in the last couple of years, but when I worked for US Foodservices and tended to get either whole uncut slabs of meat, or teh 40 count chicken breasts, and cases of veggies it was amazingly useful. Best [IIRC} 150$US investment. margali From: "Patricia Collum" <pjc2 at cox.net> To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] boiling bags Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 11:07:17 -0700 > It's been a long time since I tried boiling something in a bag, but I > seem to recall that the problem was the bag touching the side of the pot, > not the hot water, causing melting problems. Is this the case in the > experience of anybody else? > > Sandra We actually clothespinned the top of the bag to the side of the pot. This kept the contents submerged better, and we could tell our serving by the spot we had clothespinned it to. No melting problems, but we did 1) make sure the water was boiling before the bags were added, 2) limit the number of bags in at a time so they wouldn't cool the water too much. This led to a bit of a line (like at the microwave at lunchtime at work) even with 2 large soup pots of water going. Sometimes the bags would boil free of their clothespins- look out, you're lunch is escaping! Cecily Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 14:01:08 -0400 From: "Nick Sasso" <NJSasso at msplaw.com> To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Freezing food I completed my food safety certification this summer (and it was a hoot), so I I want to add a few documentable cents' worth. Please be sure that you are handling the food properly according to food agencies' guidelines to be sure you are serving safe food. The general guideline of thawing before cooking is safe, but not required according to the June 2002 materials provided by Serv-Safe, the industry standard in Restaurant Food Safety training. According to the manual and the standards for the training, thawing of a food product can be performed as a step in the cooking process, and the previously cooked food needs to be brought up to 160F in order to be ensured safe by their guidelines (I can provide chapters and verses if requested). You should bring the food through the 40F to 140F zone as quickly as possible, and stir or agitate often. Boil in bag will be a challenge if large quantities are brought to heat at once . . . . gotta ensure even heat distribution for safe reheating. The key will be to follow safe freezing and storage techniques at the front end to increase convenience and safety at the back end. Cool you food in flat containers, no more than 2 to 3 inches deep, depending on food item. If you were to put your food into the bag and then lat flat to cool then freeze, you will have a much safer reheat on the back end. Melting is but one issue for plastics. Remember that there is chemical leeching that can occur before melting. This could lead to anything from nothing at all to off flavors to your wonderful meal to adverse physical reactions in diners sensitive to plastics or their degraded by-products. There are products on the market designed for reheating, and often can be re-used for economy sake. So, you get to make the choice yourself (testing might be good here) as to what products you wish to store and heat in. fra niccolo difrancesco Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 12:08:23 -0700 To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org From: david friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Freezing food >I've done this with most of my feasts. Pre-cook and bag them. >Then, at the feast site either boil-in-bag, microwave or defrost >and reheat. It depends on the dish and kitchen facilities >When cooking for 300+ it is nice to have as many conveniences >as possible. I also know ahead of time just how much food I have >and what things need to be changed before the last minute. What we have tended to do is a partial pre-cook. One of our favorite soups, for example, is A Pottage from Meat (Platina). It's basically a meat broth thickened with bread crumbs and eggs. We do everything prior to the thickening, freeze it, then for the feast thaw, heat and thicken. -- David/Cariadoc http://www.daviddfriedman.com/ From: "Barbara G. Dodge" <awench1 at cox.net> To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org> Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 21:54:00 -0400 Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Boil in Bag If you have a large kettle with a pasta insert, this would solve the problem of the bags touching the sides of the kettle and make for easier retrieval. > It's been a long time since I tried boiling something in a bag, but I > seem to recall that the problem was the bag touching the side of the pot, > not the hot water, causing melting problems. Is this the case in the > experience of anybody else? Sandra From: "Phlip" <phlip at 99main.com> To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: Boil in Bag Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 22:06:51 -0400 This is the first I'd seen of this thread or difficulty. The only reason you should have that sort of difficulty with a boil in bag is if you don't use a pot to boil the water in that's big enough. The boil in bag should be free to move about, rather than being jammed in place- not only does that allow more even heating of the contents, but the nature of water as a calorie absorbant prevents hot spots on the side of the pot. Phlip From: "Phlip" <phlip at 99main.com> To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: Boil in Bag Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 14:11:17 -0400 > So where does one find bags for boiling...other than the seal a meal type. I have looked in every grocery store I have been to and cant find anyting. Lots of other bags, but none for boiling. I think they would be very convenient for leftovers...but Im not sure I want to go out and buy the seal a meal gadget.< I've always used the seal-a-meal bags, with or without the gadget. The gadget is more convenient, of course, but if you leave the bags oversized, you can seal them using an iron on a towel. I won't presume to tell you which setting- it's been my experience that different irons tend to vary in their actual heat, but it's usually one of the hotter settings- DON'T use steam. I found mine to be well worth the money. You might find one cheap at a yard sale. Haven't used Margali's yet- she has one of the new-fangled type which puts a vacuum seal in them, but I always found that removing as much air space as you conveniently could and wiping the inside of the top of the bag worked just fine. Keep in mind, though, that if you don't use the proper equipment, you'll likely need an assistant. Phlip Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 15:09:43 -0400 From: "Terri Morgan" <online2much at cox.net> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Camp cooking experiment a success To: "'Cooks within the SCA'" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org> It works very well for STC and for omelettes (pack them raw, boil to cook). I've cook for Crusades that way each time I've gone - serve on a half-loaf of round bread and no worries about the clean-up. (Site rules about grey water and trash there are fairly strict.) Hrothny Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 13:12:40 -0600 From: Anne-Marie Rousseau <dailleurs at liripipe.com> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Camp cooking experiment a success To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>, "Elaine Koogler" <kiridono at gmail.com> yay for seal a meals! for Estrella this year, we did seal a meals for pretty much the whole week. stews, barley, veg, etc (period recipes of course ;)) were all cooked at home and sealed, then frozen. worked like a charm!! one hint...if they're frozen, you dont need as much ice. also, seal in several bags rather than one giant one for easier thawing, quicker heating up and you can more easily adjust for numbers of diners. its not as much fun as cooking over a fire, etc but given that we wanted to fit in plenty of shopping, classes, fighting and equestrian fun, it worked well :) --Anne-Marie Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 15:14:48 -0400 From: Guenievre de Monmarch? <guenievre at erminespot.com> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Camp cooking experiment a success To: "'Cooks within the SCA'" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org> > I wouldn't have tried any kind of pie or easily squishable item because > it does squeeze it a bit. I wonder how they did the "pot pie" item. > The cobbler I can see. If your foodsealer has a "seal immediately" feature (I think they all do, just by hitting the seal button you use to make the bags during the cycle), it works fine for pies as long as they have a fairly stiff crust - I've done meat pies and open quiches with the only ill effect being a slight "patterning" on the surface of the item from the texture inside the bags... Guenievre Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 13:31:03 -0600 From: Anne-Marie Rousseau <dailleurs at liripipe.com> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Camp cooking experiment a success To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org, "Georgia Foster" <jo_foster81 at hotmail.com> heck, you can even do an approximation of herbolade in a boiling bag (that's the eggy cheesy herby thing in le Menagier and Forme of Curye. recipe: Herbolade: One Herbolace Or Two of Eggs (Menagier a Paris ) Take of dittany two leaves only, and of rue less than the half or naught, for know that it is strong and bitter; of smallage, tansey, mint, and sage, of each some four leaves or less, for each is strong; marjoram a little more, fennel more, parsley more still, but of porray, beets, violet leaves, spinach, lettuces and clary, as much of the one as of the others, until you have two large handfuls. Pick them over and wash them in cold water, then dry them of all the water, and bray two heads of ginger, then put your herbs into the mortar two or three times and bray them with the ginger. And then have sixteen eggs well beaten together, yolks and whites, and bray and mix them in the mortar with the things above said, then divide it in two and make two thick omelettes, which you shall fry as followeth. First you shall heat your frying pan very well with oil, butter or such other fat as you will, and when it is very hot all over and especially towards the handle, mingle and spread your eggs over the pan and turn them often over and over with a flat palette, then cast good grated cheese on the top, and know that it is so done, because if you grate cheese with the herbs and eggs, when you come to fry your omelette, the cheese at the bottom will stick to the pan, and thus it befals with an egg omelette if you mix the eggs with the cheese. Wherefore you should first put the eggs in the pan, and put the cheese on the top, and then cover the edges with eggs, and otherwise it will cling to the pan. And when your herbs be cooked in the pan, cut your herbolace into a round or square and eat it not too hot nor too cold. Erbolat (Forme of Curye ) Take persel, myntes, saverey and sauge, tansey, verveyn, clarry, rewe, ditayn, fenel, southrenwode; hewe hem and grince hem slale. Medle hem up with aryen. Do buttur in a trap, and do the fars therto, and bake it and messe forth. Our version: 1 lb bag irradiated, mixed interesting salad greens (spinach, arugula, etc) minced fresh parsley, sage, savory, marjoram, a touch of mint, fennel, or whatever fresh herbs you can find. About one handfuls worth when its all in a pile (go easy on the mint). 1 small slice fresh ginger 2 T butter or olive oil 16 eggs, beaten 2 cups shredded cheese optional modern addition: a bit of minced garlic or onion In a large bowl, pound the ginger till the juice gets out. Fish out the stringy bits if desired. Add the greens and herbs and pound until slightly wilted. Melt the butter in a large deep pot with the garlic if you wished it. Add the greens, then the beaten eggs. Stir till blended. When the eggs are about set, add the cheese. Don't stir, but cover and let cook until the cheese is melted. Serves 8. BOILING BAG VERSION: sautee the greens in a bit of olive oil or butter with the ginger (minced). let cool. beat the eggs put into boiling bags, about 2-3 eggs worth, plus some greens, plus some grated cheese. squish out the air and seal. not advisable to freeze, but to cook, just toss the bags into boiling water. squish once ina while to make sure its cooked. enjoy! :) --Anne-Marie Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 14:39:01 -0500 From: Colin MacNachtan <dcm at mccr.org> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Camp cooking experiment a success To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org> On Wednesday 21 March 2007 2:07 pm, Michael Gunter wrote: > I wouldn't have tried any kind of pie or easily squishable item > because it does squeeze it a bit. I wonder how they did the > "pot pie" item. The cobbler I can see. As one of the members of the camp in question, I can answer that. We froze everything before we vacuum-sealed it. All the food was actually taken frozen in a cooler with dry ice in it. Our menu for the week included: The mentioned chicken cordon bleu pie (chicken, ham, blue cheese) Green bean quiche Broccoli casserole Steak and mushroom pie Sausage/cheese pie This year none of the "pies" had an actual bottom pie crust. The crust was deemed not necessary. Some had crust toppings, others had biscuit or bread crumb toppings. Chili - frozen in blocks, then vacuum-sealed and boiled. To serve, clip the bag to the side of a big empty pot and scoop out with a ladle. No serving dish required. Girl Scout omelets - raw eggs and omelet fixings in a bag, frozen and sealed, then boiled on site. They came out much better than expected. Colin Bryn Gwlad Ansteorra Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 18:09:45 -0400 From: "Nick Sasso" <grizly at mindspring.com> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Camp cooking experiment To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org> <<< I was just given a seal-a-meal as a gift. Do others have other good, tested ideas for Pennsic foods? (Thank you to Gunthar for those he already posted!) -Ardenia > > > > > > Nearly all of the stewy, brown glop sort of recipes from early British and other cookbooks will work great. We found that when we did this for Gulf Wars about 5 years ago, it was wise to thaw completely as possible before immersing in water. I will also step out and say that our best results were with things that were laid flat and frozen no more than about 1" thick. Any starch and sauce/stew/ragout sort of thing will do great. For pastas and rice and such, ever so slightly undercook to avoid gumminess. We did do some very thin chicken pies from Menagier . . . you need the instant seal feature to avoid chicken pancakes. If you use a solid sort of form, you can do pies pretty nicely . . . think springform pan, only a little shorter. Anything that you would marinade and grill will hold up well. Also, if you want to do SOME cooking, you can precook parts of the dish and assemble or cook on site. It will save lots of preparation time and dishes anyway. Then throw it all into the pot for the stew or whatever the dish. niccolo difrancesco (proponent and owner of a FoodSaver by Tilia . . . bags are reuseable if not boiled) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 21:09:52 -0500 From: "Ysabeau" <lady.ysabeau at gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Camp cooking ideas To: <grizly at mindspring.com>, "'Cooks within the SCA'" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org> The meal I prepared in a seal-a-meal was Al-Madiri Beef - basically a beef, onion, and leek curry-type stew based on a period recipe that was redacted by a friend of mine and then redacted again by me, Many Jewels Rice - again, a redaction by a friend that I again redacted, and Strawberries in Snow- from a website. It all worked really well. It all traveled well and was still frozen after three days in a cooler. The rice was a saffron rice with dried apricots, dried cherries, slivered almonds and toasted pistachios tossed in along with some sesame oil. It makes for a very pretty presentation with the fruit and nuts looking like jewels amid the "gold" rice. I was worried the rice would turn into a big gummy glob but it fluffed up nicely after it was brought back to slightly above room temperature. I wimped out on the strawberries in snow and used ice cream instead of the whipped cream...primarily because the store at the corner had ice cream and not whipped cream. The kids in the camp definitely liked the ice cream even if they couldn't have the strawberries in wine. I did not freeze the strawberries in the spiced red wine but I think I'll do that next time. I don't think the hour or so they had to marinate was enough for the flavors to really blend. The strawberries were really big and (surprisingly) still half frozen. Has anyone tried to freeze something like that with wine? Will the wine freeze or just get slushy? Ysabeau Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 21:19:33 -0700 From: "Sue Clemenger" <mooncat at in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Camp cooking experiment a success To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org> Seal-a-meal "omelets" are wonderful, too. Just plop the raw eggs (sans shells), seasonings, cheese, meat, whatever into the bags. One serving/bag. Meat should be pre-cooked. Freeze till needed. Boil until egg is cooked through. Works *beautifully* when doing omelets for a large encampment. --Maire Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 14:38:37 -0700 From: "K C Francis" <katiracook at hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Camp cooking experiment a success To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org I have a VERY old seal-a-meal with no 'suck' option. No problem, I just carefully (and it is quite easy) press until the sauce is just below the seal area and then press down the seal bar. I always use it for stew like dishes. Beef burgandy or tarragon chicken with onions and mushrooms. Thick soups are great too. My old household used this method to great advantage back in the mid 80's. These days with my busy schedule at events and being a court junkie, my best reason is that I can cook for one and heat and eat my one meal in just a few minutes. And then use the hot water for washing the bowl & spoon. Cooking from scratch, which I loved to do, was to hard to fit in around evening court. I am always on the lookout for 'boil-n-the-bag' products for the same reason, but they are few and far between these days. One freezer brand used to have great thick soups. Now it is all microwave. Wish they would make the packaging boilable too. Katira Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 09:14:41 -0500 From: Vitaliano Vincenzi <vitaliano at shanelambert.com> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] seal-a-meal clones To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org> Hint: Almost ALL seal-a-meal clones will use the Generic bags available at Target, Kohl's and if you have them, Farm & Fleet stores. We have the Black & Decker "Fresh guard" model but never buy the Black & Decker bags because, 1) we can't find them, and 2) they are too expensive when we can find them. Don't believe the hype on the side that says "only use our bags" or whatever text is there. They are just trying to put more green in their pocket. Keep that green for yourself and find generic bags - they work just as well. :) Anne-Marie Rousseau wrote: > On picking a seal a mealer gadget... > > One of my primary concerns was availability of the bags. I ended up going > with the one that sealed, sucked ;) and that was about it, but whose bags I > could get a my local Fred Meyers (a PacNW based chain that isn't going to go > anywhere :)) as well as CostCo. > > I actually had a "real" seal a meal but couldn't find the bags except > online. One may be able to use different bags on them, but I wanted > to be sure. > > --AM -- Lord Vitaliano Vincenzi aka Shane Lambert Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 07:21:09 -0700 From: "Anne-Marie Rousseau" <dailleurs at liripipe.com> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Greetings from the Incipient Shire of Tymberhavene inAnTir To: "'Cooks within the SCA'" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org> Hello from Anne-Marie (also in Antir :)) One of my favorite "foods that if you serve it to a modern person they'll go "oo! Breakfast!" even if our medieval counterparts may not have eaten it as such" (happy, Bear? ;)) is herbolade. There are several versions in the medieval corpus...off the top of my head I think of the one from le menagier but I'm pretty sure there's another one in one of the English sources (both are medieval western European) Its kinda a baked frittata thingie, with eggs, herbs and cheese. One Herbolace Or Two of Eggs (Menagier de Paris, p. 274) Take of dittany two leaves only, and of rue less than the half or naught, for know that it is strong and bitter; of smallage, tansey, mint, and sage, of each some four leaves or less, for each is strong; marjoram a little more, fennel more, parsley more still, but of porray, beets, violet leaves, spinach, lettuces and clary, as much of the one as of the others, until you have two large handfuls. Pick them over and wash them in cold water, then dry them of all the water, and bray two heads of ginger, then put your herbs into the mortar two or three times and bray them with the ginger. And then have sixteen eggs well beaten together, yolks and whites, and bray and mix them in the mortar with the things abovesaid, then divide it in two and make two thick omelettes, which you shall fry as followeth. First you shall heat your frying pan very well with oil, butter or such other fat as you will, and when it is very hot all over and especially towards the handle, mingle and spread your eggs over the pan and turn them often over and over with a flat palette, then cast good grated cheese on the top, and know that it is so done, because if you grate cheese with the herbs and eggs, when you come to fry your omelette, the cheese at the bottom will stick to the pan, and thus it befals with an egg omelette if you mix the eggs with the cheese. Wherefore you should first put the eggs in the pan, and put the cheese on the top, and then cover the edges with eggs, and otherwise it will cling to the pan. And when your herbs be cooked in the pan, cut your herbolace into a round or square and eat it not too hot nor too cold. My version (adapted for cooking over a campstove/cookfire and easy quick prep) (all rights reserved, no publication without permission please): Take a couple handfuls of herb salad greens (and/or bagged baby spinach) and mince finely with a bit of fresh ginger. Mix with six eggs and beat until blended. Heat some olive oil in a large pan that has a lid (my cast iron dutch oven works great for this). Dump in egg/herby goo. When set, you can flip it (or if you're like me and forget, it will work just fine without flipping ;)). Sprinkle grated cheese on top, replace the lid and remove from the heat. The residual heat from the cast iron pot will melt the cheese nicely. I've also been known to do a pseudo version of this in boiling bags....sautee my greens etc in a bit of olive oil. Beat the eggs with the grated cheese and seal all in a boiling bag. (don't do more than six eggs per bag for ease of cooking through). Like the boyscout omelets :)) Hope this helps! This recipe is a big hit with people who "don't like medieval food". --Anne-Marie Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 19:51:37 -0700 From: "Anne-Marie Rousseau" <dailleurs at liripipe.com> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] medieval boil-in bag meals To: "'Cooks within the SCA'" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>, "'SCA-Cooks maillist SCA-Cooks'" <SCA-Cooks at Ansteorra.org> Hi from Anne-Marie :) then Stefan asks me: Anyone have some good suggestions for medieval recipes that adapt well to this technique? I'd like to add more such suggestions to the bag-cooking-msg file in the Florlegium. And someday when I get one of the vacuum-sealer machines... to whit I reply: what recipes DON'T work with boiling bags? :). Any sort of stew thing works. Herbolades work. Sauces work. Braised greens. Benes. Frumenty. Funges. Basically any dish that you would have boiled, or simmered into a glop, so pretty much most of the English and French medieval corpus ;). I've even done roast pork with sauce by making the sauce ahead of time, roasting the pork at home, slicing the pork and packaging WITH the sauce and reheating on site. Again, I vastly prefer to cook in a period manner, but when modern site rules dictate, I have come up with this work around :) --Anne-Marie Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 09:42:25 -0400 From: "Nick Sasso" <grizly at mindspring.com> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] medieval boil-in bag meals To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org> -----Original Message----- to whit I reply: <<<SNIP>>> I've even done roast pork with sauce by making the sauce ahead of time, roasting the pork at home, sliceing the pork and packaging WITH the sauce and reheating on site. > > > > > > You can even do roasted chicken if you flatten it out before sealing it. You loose the crispy skin, but it works. Lamb chops same thing, but you don't have to flatten much. Game hens would do as well. You would be absolutely amazed what you can manage with a little creativity and a firm grasp of fundamentals of boil in bag reheating. We even did the lombard chicken from Menagier! Done flat enough, and thoroughly thawed before cooking, you can heat them through in about 15 to 18 minutes at a high simmer. Remember that water, like an oven, has variable heat levels ;o) niccolo difrancesco (only done b-n-b camping once, and it was a general success) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 10:30:17 -0500 From: "Michael Gunter" <countgunthar at hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] medieval boil-in bag meals To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org > what recipes DON'T work with boiling bags? :). Any sort of stew thing works. > Herbolades work. Sauces work. Braised greens. Benes. Frumenty. Funges. > Basically any dish that you would have boiled, or simmered into a > glop, so pretty much most of the English and French medieval corpus ;). As has been pointed out, you can do more than just gloppy dishes. One of my camp favorites is breakfast burritos. Just make the burritos ahead of time, wrap and seal. Then drop in boiling water to reheat. Noodles do fine in seal-a-meals. The first time I sealed spaghetti noodles I thought they had been squashed to mush. But when they were heated and poured into a bowl they were fine. Grilled meats do fine. Steaks and chops do great. Remember, no water gets into the bag. Just heat penetrates so it is like a microwave. I've even put in frozen microwave items (like Beef Stroganoff) and then just used the boiling bag and it worked fine. Seal-A-Meals are also great for raw foods that you want to marinate. The vaccuum seal helps the marinade penetrate deeply. Just unseal and grill. So pretty much any period dish works well when sealed. Just prepare at home and boil on site. Pour into your serving dish and have a proper dinner with no grey water, no dirty pots and very little cleanup. > I've even done roast pork with sauce by making the sauce ahead of time, > roasting the pork at home, slicing the pork and packaging WITH the > sauce and reheating on site. Yeah. That works fine. Also, fresh stuff is great. Salads, sliced vegetables (even things like tomato or avacado) cheeses, raw meats or fish, etc....the sealing prevents oxidation and cross contamination. It also prevents water from melting ice to get in or meat juices from getting out. The frozen flat bags also help keep the chill in a cooler. > Again, I vastly prefer to cook in a period manner, but when modern > site rules dictate, I have come up with this work around :) My main reason for using the Seal-A-Meal is convenience. I'm almost always busy at events or Wars but I'm also quite often the main camp cook along with Elizabeth. I just flat don't have TIME to go and prepare a nice dinner for even two people after fighting all day, sitting in Circle, attending Commanders' meetings, working A&S or whatever. So, I can come in, take a shower, get changed and boil some water for a nice hot meal before going to Court or whatever else calls. Yes, preparing a meal in a period fashion is wonderful. But you usually have to dedicate a couple of hours to doing it. I just never have that luxury. Um....have I mentioned that I LOVE my Seal-A-Meal? > --Anne-Marie Gunthar Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 09:41:19 -0700 From: Susan Fox <selene at earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] medieval boil-in bag meals To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org> > what recipes DON'T work with boiling bags? :). Any sort of stew thing works. > Herbolades work. Sauces work. Braised greens. Benes. Frumenty. Funges. > Basically any dish that you would have boiled, or simmered into a glop, What completely failed in seal-bags was hand-held pies. I tried to bag up Cornish pasties for war once and the vacuum-suck process broke up the crusts severely. Next time, I go with conventional zipper bags and store them on crushed ice, gently. Selene Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 13:33:53 -0400 From: Gueni?vre de Monmarch? <guenievre at erminespot.com> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] medieval boil-in bag meals To: "'Cooks within the SCA'" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org> Most sealers have a no-suction or even partial-suction option for sealing - I learned the same lesson on pies, but still like the *seal* of putting pies in the sealer bags anyway. But then I have notoriously bad luck on zipper bags... Gueni?vre Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 12:39:09 -0500 From: Anne-Marie Rousseau <dailleurs at liripipe.com> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] medieval boil-in bag meals To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>, Susan Fox <selene at earthlink.net> for things in a crust, I found that wrapping them loosely in tin foil, and THEN putting them in ziplocks helped keep the crust from getting soggy, plus the extra packaging that was slightly stiff meant they didnt get as smooshed! of course the best way to transport tarts and such is in the muffin pans (we sometimes do our handheld pies in texas muffin tins) --AM > What completely failed in seal-bags was hand-held pies. I tried to bag > up Cornish pasties for war once and the vacuum-suck process broke up the > crusts severely. Next time, I go with conventional zipper bags and > store them on crushed ice, gently. > > Selene Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 10:44:49 -0700 From: "SCABeathog" <scabeathog at cox.net> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] medieval boil-in bag meals To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org> To bag pasties (and other similar fragile items), I freeze them a bit first, to firm them up. I then can _carefully_ proceed with the vacuum-suck process. Works great for me! I have BAD, bad luck with conventional zipper bags. Beathog Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 19:44:10 +0000 From: "Olwen the Odd" <olwentheodd at hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Boil-in bag meals question To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org > Helen Schultz wrote: <<<<snip>>>> > By the way, I did have a leg of lamb that I brought out to Pennsic > this year (with bone), that I thought would stay frozen much longer than it > did. But, it was purchased from Sam's Club in one of those seal-a-meal > type bags, and even though it had been thawed out for nearly a week (kept > on ice, though), it tasted wonderful. It would have been better if > marinated, though... so might have to work on that for next year. One very efficent way I have used to marinate these "already sealed" things is to inject the marinade right through the wrapping into the meat, just on the top surface but at but at different depths, then just set in foil or a shallow pan to catch any dripping and plop back in the cooler overnight or all day. Olwen Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 13:50:48 -0400 From: "Anne Murphy" <afmmurphy at gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] medieval boil-in bag meals To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org> Frumenty is good for camp cooking even without a boil in bag. I use the slight cheat that I use bulgar wheat, which has been parboiled, rather than regular cracked wheat. (Bulgar is also usually easier for me to find.) I use the packaged almond milk (won't work for many recipes, as it doesn't thicken properly, but does for this.) You just need to bring it all to a boil, simmer a couple of minutes, and then cover set it aside while you cook the rest of the meal - not using up propane or a valuable burner. AEllin Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 09:52:27 -0400 From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Boil-in bag meals question To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org> One of the questions to ask yourself is where and when and how often will it be used. SCA only? Home preservation? Buying in bulk? A lot of hunters use them to preserve game. It's also often not the cost of the machine but the cost of the bags and how easy it is to get the bags. Can they be purchased locally? Must they be mail- ordered with an additional s/h cost? Johnnae Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 10:23:16 -0400 From: "Saint Phlip" <phlip at 99main.com> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] seal a meal questions To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org> Yes, you can try regular bags in a Seal a Meal. They're not as sturdy as the ones they sell for the machines, but they're certainly sturdy enough for you to test your machine with ;-) Look yours over- make sure that the sealing lip is clean and free of debris, and test it. If it works fine on a regular plastic bag, then go ahead and buy some of the bags designed for your type of machine. I had one that I had used for years- loved it, but, like you said, put it up when I couldn't find bags for it, and it got vanished in one of my moves. I do remember reading the instructions, though, and them mentioning that it could be used on regular bags, although they weren't as sturdy as the bags for the machine. On 9/4/07, Kathleen A Roberts <karobert at unm.edu> wrote: > cleaning the garage yesterday, we came upon a dazey > seal-a-meal that was given to us (used) several years ago > when the previous owner said that he could not find bags > for it easily enough. > > nowadays, bags can be found almost everywhere in varying > styles. does anyone know... > > how to tell if it is working without buying the bags? > could i test drive it on a regular plastic sandwich or > ziplock bag without gumming up the works? > > do you have to use the brand bags with the brand sealer? > > how important is the vacumm feature? i think this is just > a straight sealer. > > if this is easy enough to test out, and works, i may be > starting a few choruses of 'pennies from heaven' for next > estrella! > > cailte Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 14:16:58 -0700 From: "K C Francis" <katiracook at hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] seal a meal questions To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org My old machine requires me to press out the air by hand and I find it just fine for my needs as I only seal saucy things for onsite boiling. If I wanted to seal meats and other chunky things, and avoid freezer burn, I'd get a new machine. I also have a little hand device that lets me reseal potato chip bags, etc. Very handy! Katira Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 17:41:43 -0400 From: "Terri Morgan" <online2much at cox.net> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] seal a meal questions To: "'Cooks within the SCA'" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org> I travelled to the "Pro Bass Sporting goods store" in our area (looking for a camp cot) and was surprised to find that there were both electric-plug and battery operated food sealers in the camping section. After thought, I realised how handy those would be for hunters and fishers. So if you are looking for a "Bubba won't break it" model, I'd check the store local to you. Hrothny <the end> Edited by Mark S. Harris bag-cooking-msg Page 20 of 20