sauerkraut-msg – 1/7/08
Period sauerkraut and pickled cabbage.
NOTE: See also these files: cabbages-msg, fd-Germany-msg, pickled-foods-msg, salads-msg, fd-Russia-msg, fd-East-Eur-msg, vinegar-msg, compost-msg.
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Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 07:15:54 -0500
From: vjarmstrong at aristotle.net (Valoise Armstrong)
Subject: SC - Sauerkraut
Yesterday I was reading Bernd Roeck's _Baecker, Brot und Getreide in
Augsburg_ and I ran across a list of markets in the city in the mid-16th
century. There was one market area specifically for sauerkraut. Still
haven't found any recipes for it, but since there was a designated area for
sauerkraut merchants I wonder if, in urban areas, it wasn't a guild
acrivity.
Valoise
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 20:42:37 -0500
From: vjarmstrong at aristotle.net (Valoise Armstrong)
Subject: Re: SC - Sauerkraut
Ras wrote:
>Cool! Could you write down and send the SPECIFIC reference (pub., pg. etc.).
>I've just added sauerkraut to the Oct. menu. :-) Period-like, of course, but
>it WILL be there.
Roeck, Bernd. Baecker, Brot und Getreide in Augsburg. Sigmaringen: Jan
Thorbecke Verlag, 1987.
It's probably out of print, but I got it fairly easily through interlibrary
loan. I didn't save the ISBN, just photocopied what I needed. It's not as
interesting as it sounds at first - the subtitle translates to something
like - The history of the baking trade and the politics of supply in the
Imperial city at the time of the Thirty Year's War_. But mixed in with the
out of period and political stuff are some nice tidbits, like the food
budget for an orphange in 1572 and speculation from period sources on what
the working class ate and spent on food. There's also an appendix that
giving the Augsburg municipal baking laws from 1606.
It's cultural history, academic and in German, but there are some SCA
applicable parts.
Valoise
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 18:13:07 -0500
From: allilyn at juno.com (LYN M PARKINSON)
Subject: Re: SC - Sauerkraut
>>I've just added sauerkraut to the Oct. menu. :-) Period-like, of
course, but it WILL be there.
Ras (Still hoping for a recipe but will fudge it if I have to. ;-))<<
If this was a guild activity, you probably aren't going to get a recipe.
It would be a 'mystery' and carefully hidden secret. The farm wives
would have known how to make it, but they didn't write cookbooks in
period. Present day German sauerkraut is much sweeter than the
traditional USA stuff we've grown up with. I didn't like it, being used
to the sharper, saltier taste, with lots of dill in it. Now, some of the
Northern Germans may make it that way--I've lived in Frankfurt A/M, the
areas northeast of Nuremberg, and in Bavaria and Swabia.
Basically, it's shredded cabbage pickled in salt. It's quite acidic, try
not to use an aluminum pan, but I'm sure you know that. The differences
in 'sauerkraut' come with the way you prepare it--adding bacon pits,
wursts, onion, wine or champagne, dill seed, caraway seed, apples, etc.
These are either/or, not all together.
Allison
allilyn at juno.com, Barony Marche of the Debatable Lands, Pittsburgh, PA
Kingdom of Aethelmearc
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 15:28:13 EDT
From: kathleen.hogan at juno.com (Kathleen M Hogan)
Subject: Re: SC - Sauerkraut
On Tue, 6 Oct 1998 18:13:07 -0500 allilyn at juno.com (LYN M PARKINSON)
writes:
>>>I've just added sauerkraut to the Oct. menu. :-) Period-like, of
>course, but it WILL be there. Ras (Still hoping for
>a recipe but will fudge it if I have to. ;-))<<
>Basically, it's shredded cabbage pickled in salt. It's quite acidic,
>try not to use an aluminum pan, but I'm sure you know that.
The way my Mother learned to make it (we lived in the Ramstein area) was
fairly simple, but takes a loooong time. She used to layer shredded
cabbage and kosher salt in a stoneware crock (a regular dinner plate fit
inside it just to fit)...about 2" cabbage and a tb or so of salt, then
mashed it with a wooden masher until the juice came over the cabbage.
Then another layer of cabbage and salt and more mashing...continuing this
until it came to the top of the crock. She then put the plate on it with
a weight (she used a quart jar of water). We then put it in the back of
the garage (a cool dark place) for a couple of months. I remember one of
our neighbors complaining that it smelled like something died in the
garage (we have a paper mill here in Augusta, and when the wind blows
from the mill, it smells like Mom's sourkraut...I think I'm one of the
few people around here that actually likes the smell). But the sourkraut
was WONDERFUL. I can't document it as a period method, but it is
certainly simple enough to be.
Caitlin NicFhionghuin
House Oak & Thistle
Shire of Bordervale Keep, Atlantia
Augusta, GA
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 21:49:21 -0500
From: vjarmstrong at aristotle.net (Valoise Armstrong)
Subject: SC - Two recipes with Sauerkraut
Who was looking for sauerkraut recipes - was that Ras? Well I just got my
hands on a copy of Marx Rumpolts' Ein New Kochbook (1581), used up a ream
of paper to photocopy the thing. I haven't had a chance to really look at
it, but I flipped through the chapter on miscellaneous prepared dishes and
found two that call for sauerkraut. There may be others, but this is a huge
book and I don't really have time to read it right now. I've substituted
modern 's' forms for the old ones and German ones. Here they are.
111. Saur Kraut mit einer gesottenen hennen/unnd gerauchteren Speck/ist
auch nicht boss zu essen.
Sauerkraut with a boiled hen and smoked bacon is also not bad to eat.
117. Gehackt saures Kraut ist auch nicht boss/wenns gesotten ist/ so macht
mans ab mit saurem Raum und Butter.
Chopped sauerkraut is also not bad when it is boiled, so one
prepares it with sour cream and butter.
I know those are pretty short on detailed instructions, but they're the
first sauerkraut recipes that I've noticed.
Valoise
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 00:19:34 EDT
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: SC - Sauerkraut redaction-recipe
vjarmstrong at aristotle.net writes:
<< Chopped sauerkraut is also not bad when it is boiled, so one
prepares it with sour cream and butter.
I know those are pretty short on detailed instructions, but they're the
first sauerkraut recipes that I've noticed.
Valoise
>>
Seems like some detail. Thanks Let's see what I can do with the above recipe:
saures Kraut mit saurem Raum und Butter (Sauerkraut with Sour Cream and
Butter)
1 lb sauerkraut, rinsed well and drained
1/2 stick butter
1 cup sour cream
Put sauerkraut in a medium pan. Add water to cover. Bring to a boil. Cover pan
with a tight fitting lid. Reduce heat to simmer and continue cooking for 20
mins. Reserving liquid, drain kraut.
Return kraut to pan. Add 1/2 the reserved liquid. On low heat, add butter in
small chunks stirring after each addition until melted. Repeat until all the
butter has been incorporated into the kraut. Mix sour cream into buttered
kraut. Immediately remove from heat and serve.
Ras
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 19:07:32 EDT
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Sauerkraut redaction-recipe
allilyn at juno.com writes:
<< Haven't you just washed out all the flavor? Wish I had some sauerkraut to
try. I'll have to get some fresh cabbage and some coarse salt and try
making my own for the period redaction attempts.>>
Yes, and no. I felt that this dish was meant to be more subtle. Period salt
had all kinds of nastiness in it and a preliminary rinsing would have been
done, IMO. The cabbage itself without the preserving liquid has a much milder
and subtler flavor.
BTW, I know that a lot of people currently eat their sauerkraut cooked in it's
own juices. This is not bad but it is another change in very recent history.
Unfortunately this practice has all but dulled the modern taste buds to the
nuances of flavor in rinsed kraut while accounting for the large number of
people who don't like this wonderful food product.
I think that modern manufacture's also put a recommendation to rinse their
kraut on their labels. Almost all the early recipes that I have for using
kraut call for an initial rinsing. Many also include apples and/or other
sweeteners to cover the sour taste. The sour cream in the recipe adds back a
smooth tang that is superb. Also a rinsing of the kraut falls within the
range of advice given medieval recipes regarding preliminary preparation of
other period foods which have been preserved in a salt solution.
Ras
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 09:02:35 EDT
From: Mordonna22 at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Sauerkraut redaction-recipe
allilyn at juno.com writes:
> Haven't you just washed out all the flavor? Wish I had some saurkraut to
> try. I'll have to get some fresh cabbage and some coarse salt and try
> making my own for the period redaction attempts.
As with salt cured hams, washing out the salt is necessary if homemade kraut
is to be edible to most palates.
Mordonna DuBois
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 08:47:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: Karen <tyrca at yahoo.com>
Subject: SC - Sauerkraut OOP
>allilyn at juno.com writes:
>> Haven't you just washed out all the flavor? Wish I had some saurkraut to
>> try. I'll have to get some fresh cabbage and some coarse salt and try
>> making my own for the period redaction attempts.
>As with salt cured hams, washing out the salt is necessary if homemade
>kraut is to be edible to most palates.
>Mordonna DuBois
When we lived in Germany, about 8 years ago, the German Grandmother
that adopted us told me how to make saurkraut, and she was not talking
about the fresh cabbage. She always started by rinsing to get out
some of the salt, (and if you are using canned, the taste of the can
as well). This does not negate any of the flavor as the juice is not
the flavor agent, the kraut itself is sour. She would then add a
tablespoon of flour, and a teaspoon of sugar, 8 juniper berries, and a
handful of caraway seeds. The kraut would slightly thicken and
bubble, and the sugar would set off the sharp taste of the sour and
juniper without really being noticed. I know this is [not] documentablly
period, that is just the way she showed me to make it, and that is the
way I always do.
Many Germans today also add white wine to it after it has been rinsed,
as it is inexpensive (there) and they all have it. This adds a
different dimension to the flavor that I really liked.
Tyrca
==
Lady Tyrca Ivarsdottir
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 15:24:47 -0600 (MDT)
From: grasse at mscd.edu (Martina Grasse)
Subject: SC - RE sour kraut (cooks 2716)
Bear wrote:
>If you are adhering to strict historical accuracy, I don't think you can
>truly document sauerkraut or pirogi, although both are probably "period."
>I've used similar undocumentable dishes for feasts where I wasn't trying for
>historical accuracy.
Sorry Bear, I disagree
Rumpolt - 1581 German (are you sick of us yet ;-) does list recipes using
'Saures Kraut' (would quote, but he is home and I'm at work), but not being a
cookbook he gives no directions for making the kraut (one is served with
cream (or sour cream.. dont recall). (and no, it is not just cabage because
he has several just Kraut recipes.
Gwen Cat
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 21:35:50 EDT
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: SC - Sauer Kraut mit saurem Raum und Butter-recipe
jenne at mail.browser.net writes:
> Ooh ooh ooh can you quote with translations? This would be a great
> resource for E. Europe... (no, I'm not sick of Rumpolt yet!)
> --
> Jadwiga Zajaczkowa,
This was served at the Silver Rhyll Harvest Feast that I cooked a couple of
years ago. Good stuff. :-)
Sauer Kraut mit saurem Raum und Butter
Sauerkraut with Sour Cream and Butter
(from ein New Kochbock. Max Rumpolt. 1581 CE)
(Translation by Veloise Armstrong)
Redaction copyright c 2000 L. J. Spencer, Jr.
117. Gehackt saures Kraut ist auch nicht boss/ wenns gesotten/ ist/ so nacht
mans ab mit saurem Raum und Butter.
117. Chopped sauerkraut is not bad when it is boiled, so one prepares it with
sour cream and butter.
1 LB Saurkraut
1/2 stick Butter
1/2 cp. Sour Cream
Put sauerkraut into a medium pan. Barely cover with water. Boil until tender.
Drain. Stir in butter and sour cream. Serve.
Ras
From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <rcmann4 at earthlink.net>
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 18:58:58 -0400
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] 16th c German Recipes Help
On 14 May 2003, at 10:54, lilinah at earthlink.net wrote:
> Also, i have recipes on-line i made for the German feast i cooked for
> the Province of the Mists Boar Hunt in 2001:
> http://witch.drak.net/lilinah/2001Menu.html
[snip]
> RELISHES
> - Red Cabbage marinated in red wine vinegar, honey, caraway, anise,
> pepper - Ein Buch von Guter Speise
[snip]
I made the red cabbage for Mudthaw dayboard, using your redaction. It
Was very tasty.
Brighid ni Chiarain *** mka Robin Carroll-Mann
Barony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 11:32:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: Sandra J. <kieralady2 at yahoo.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] sour cabbage - german recipe
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
I am looking for a period German recipe for sourcraut.
I've found a couple of recipes that reference
saurkraut (saures Kraut) in Ein New Kochbuch and the
Preserved Cabbage (Eynngemacht Crautt), from Ein
Kochbuch aus dem Archiv des Deutschen Ordens, but not
actually anything that describes the appropriate
method to make specifically "sour cabbage".
Any help would be appreciated. I feel like I'm
overlooking it or something silly like that. *sigh*
Kind Regards,
Clara von Ulm
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 17:44:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] sour cabbage - german recipe
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
The earliest mention of Sauerkraut is from 1607 in the book "Le
Tresor di Santi" written in
1607, which describes it as being German. There are pickled cabbage
recipes that go back to Roman times, but they aren't quite sauerkraut.
So I would say that Sauerkraut is probably late period, but we just
haven't found the recipes yet.
Huette
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 03:10:25 -0500
From: "otsisto" <otsisto at socket.net>
Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] sour cabbage - German recipe
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
I was told once and never got docs on it. That an English captain in the
late 1500s, mentions an observation that the Germanic nations' sailors did
not seem to suffer like English sailors of scurvy. This was attributed to
the consumption of pickled cabbage.
In order to get his crew to eat the pickled cabbage, he had a barrel brought
on board and had it labeled for officers only.
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 09:23:08 +1200
From: Adele de Maisieres <ladyadele at paradise.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] sour cabbage - german recipe
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Sandra J. wrote:
> I am looking for a period German recipe for sourcraut.
> I've found a couple of recipes that reference
> saurkraut (saures Kraut) in Ein New Kochbuch and the
> Preserved Cabbage (Eynngemacht Crautt), from Ein
> Kochbuch aus dem Archiv des Deutschen Ordens, but not
> actually anything that describes the appropriate
> method to make specifically "sour cabbage".
>
> Any help would be appreciated. I feel like I'm
> overlooking it or something silly like that. *sigh*
OK, there's absolutely nothing mystical about making salted, preserved
vegetables like sauerkraut. It's just shredded vegetables and salt.
You will need to use only non-reactive containers and utensils for this.
Shred 5lbs of cabbage finely. (this is about one medium-sized white
cabbage) Make the slices about 2mm thick.
Layer it in a large crock or stone jar with 1/4c salt. (preferably
something tallish and narrowish-- a large preserving jar, tupperware
container, ceramic cookie jar, whatever).
IMPORTANT: If you do not have exactly the right amount of cabbage, you
must increase or decrease the salt so that the proportions are the same.
Cover it lightly and leave it for a few hours-- the cabbage will produce
quite a bit of liquid.
Cover and weight the cabbage in such a way that it's all immersed in the
brine and protected from the outside air. I've done this by putting a
plastic bag of cold water on top of the cabbage, but also by the simpler
method of putting a well-fitted weight on top of the cabbage and
covering the crock not-too-tightly. Now, leave the whole thing to
ferment at room temperature for 2-6 weeks, depending on how sour you
like it. Then keep refrigerated until it's all eaten.
I served this at a feast a while ago, with roast beef and freshly-baked
rye bread. It was very well received and nearly all of it got eaten.
--
Adele de Maisieres
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 09:34:44 +1200
From: Adele de Maisieres <ladyadele at paradise.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] sour cabbage - german recipe
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Sandra J. wrote:
> I am looking for a period German recipe for sourcraut.
> I've found a couple of recipes that reference
> saurkraut (saures Kraut) in Ein New Kochbuch and the
> Preserved Cabbage (Eynngemacht Crautt), from Ein
> Kochbuch aus dem Archiv des Deutschen Ordens, but not
> actually anything that describes the appropriate
> method to make specifically "sour cabbage".
And the remark I meant to make earlier-- I haven't found a strictly
period recipe, either, and I don't expect that I will. There are lots
of period references to sauerkraut, and some to the general method of
production (which is roughly: cabbage is shredded and put in barrels
with salt), but as far as I can tell, this is something made on farms,
not in professional kitchens. A period professional cook would have
bought it by the barrel, rather than made it himself.
--
Adele de Maisieres
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 05:39:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Louise Smithson <helewyse at yahoo.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] An Italian recipe for sauerkraut? was sour
cabbage - german recipe
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
>>>
So I would say that Sauerkraut is probably late period, but we just
haven't found the recipes
yet. Huette
<<<
I figure that this will make the whole discussion more complicated. I
came across this recipe in Scappi some time ago. It refers to
cabbage in salt, packed in wooden barrels or ceramic vases. It could
easily be another salted cabbage or it could indeed be sauerkraut.
Although one could argue that just about any cabbage stored in a
salty liquid will become sauerkraut anyway.
Helewyse
Per far minestra di cauli cappucci stati in sale. Cap CXCVII
Son portati in Trevisi & in Venetia di terra Todesca cauli cappucci
salati con salimora in vasi di terra o di legno, li quali cavati che
son dalla salimora si lavano in pił acque, & si fanno stare in molle,
& si fanno perlessare con acqua semplice; & cavinosi d¹essa acqua, &
rinfreschinosi con altre acque, & faccianosi cuocere in brodo di
carne di vaccina grassa, spigoli d¹aglia ammaccati, & cotti che sono
si cavano ascuitti, & si copreno di agliata. Si possono ancho
soffrigere con lo strutto liquefatto, & aglio, & cipollette battute
dapoi che saranno cotti nel brodo, & si serveno con pepe, & fior di
finocchio sopra.
To make a dish of headed cabbage kept in salt. Chapter 197
Into Trevisi and Venice is carried from Germany salted headed cabbage
with salted liquid in vessels of ceramic or of wood. The which is
taken from the salted liquid and washed in water and then soaked in
water and parboiled in simple water. One takes it from this water and
refreshes it with more water, and put it to cook in fatty beef broth
with chopped garlic cloves, and when it is cooked one takes it out
dry (strains it) and covers it with garlic sauce. One can also fry it
in melted lard with garlic and chopped onions after it has been
cooked in the broth and one serves it with pepper and ground fennel
above.
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 10:33:51 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Sour Cabbage -- notes
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Sour Cabbage Notes—
Went looking for references to sauerkraut last night. This was before
reading this am's posts, so forgive me for being behind in those.
In Regional Cuisines of Medieval Europe: A Book of Essays.
In this collection edited by Melitta Weiss Adamson with the section on
Germany written by Adamson, I found these mentions—
<>In talking about 16th century food in Germany, she writes ³Lower class
foods according to Ryff are oats, cabbage, chestnuts, beans, millet, and turnips
Cabbage, Ryff informs the reader, is eaten daily all over
Germany, and in Bavaria sauerkraut is eaten three to four times a day as
a meal. Page 163
Ryff¹s book is Guualterus H. Rivius [Walter Ryff]. Kurtze aber vast
eigentliche nutzliche vnd in pflegung
it dates from 1549
<>Adamson later on in her discussion of Daz Buch von Gutter Spise
mentions that ³Two recipes each contain cabbage/sauerkraut (recipes 48,
84). Page 169
If one checks the edition of Daz Buch von Gutter Spise that Adamson
edited, one will find that recipe 48 is a sauce recipe that ends ³and
some sauerkraut or turnips, anything you want.²
<>Apparently in the 1460 cookbook written by von Maister Hans or Meister
Hans (facsimile is titled Maister Hannsen des von Wirtenburg koch) there
is a mention made to cabbage seeds being saved from cabbage worms.
Meister Hans noted ³I secretly noticed that you like to eat sauerkraut,
while by nature I prefer gruel
² Page 176 <>
Lastly Adamson mentions that the 1485 Kuchenmeysterey contains some
material in the sauces section. ³The focus in chapter 4 is on sauces,
especially garlic sauces, mustard, electuaries, cabbage, and
sauerkraut.² Page 183
Perhaps someone could check a copy of the Kuchenmeysterey and see what
is in this chapter. I don¹t have a copy at hand of this.
Johnnae
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 11:32:27 -0400
From: "Jeff Gedney" <gedney1 at iconn.net>
Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] sour cabbage - German recipe
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
> I was told once and never got docs on it. That an
> English captain in the late 1500s, mentions an
> observation that the Germanic nations' sailors did
> not seem to suffer like English sailors of scurvy.
> This was attributed to the consumption of pickled
> cabbage. In order to get his crew to eat the pickled
> cabbage, he had a barrel brought on board and had it
> labeled for officers only.
Sounds up my alley...
I'll see what I can find...
But it _sounds_ apochryphal. Ship's stores were generally
closely watched and apportioned out by stewards.
Stuff listed for the captain's table would not go into
the general "messe" in the way described.
The English would eat almost anything to relieve their
boredom of the beer biscuit and salt cod/salt beef diet.
... including eskimo dog, penguin, manatee, dolphin, corn,
grass, whatever the can catch or gather that might be
concievably or even remotely edible.
I think if they were put ashore in Germany, after months
of eating weevily bisuit, maggoty salt beef and cod,
drinking scummy water, and smelling the gasses that
issued from the festering bilges every night as they try
to sleep, that a fresh crock of sauerkraut in a dry
German inn would seem like cheese and wine on a bed
of rose petals.
I seriously doubt that they would have to be coaxed into
eating any any sort of fresh food.
On scurvy:
I know that in the Elizabethan period the cause and
cure of scurvy was still widely unknown.
A major complication being that the modern concept of
Scurvy as a vitamin C deficiency rarely was experienced.
The period Scurvy diagnosis usually included descriptions
of symptoms associated with other vitamin deficinecies,
such as "wet" beriberi (A vitamin B1 deficiency usually
associated with the high alcohol content of the sailor's
diet), and pellagra.
There were lots of theories as to causation, yes, but the
notion of a purely dietary deficiency causing the
condition was not among them.
The most usual period theory being that the very atmosphere
of the ocean was bad for you, the very ocean was inimical
to non ocean based life. This was commonly called "malaria"
(bad air "mal+aria").
Once you got back on the wholesome land, the very vapors
of the good earth cured you. It was pretty well established
that some foods and medicines would help to deter the
condition at sea, but why they worked was anyone's guess,
and the exact foods and medicines recommended varied from
place to place and era to era.
For example, it was known that some fruits deterred scurvy,
but it was thought that the acidic nature of the foods was
the curative agency, so in his 1565 voyage, Sir John Hawkins
shipped, and distributed, his favorite remedy for scurvy,
which was a mixture of sulfuric acid, sugar and water. (and
you thought Coke was bad for the teeth!)
Source:
Keevil, J. J., "Medicine and the Navy: 1200-1900: Vol 1
1200-1649", E. & S. Livingstone, Edinburgh, 1957
Capt Elias
Dragonship Haven, East
(Stratford, CT, USA)
Apprentice in the House of Silverwing
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 14:17:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] sour cabbage - German recipe
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
And Krautsalat (coleslaw) has been mentioned in period. In his German travel diaries from 1580, Michel de Montaigne kept a list of "dishes unfamiliar to me," in which he included, without further comment, the "cabbage salads" that were set before him in the Swabian town of Lindau on Lake Constance. No recipes alas, but if you make your coleslaw without mayo, then you will be at least serving something potentially pre-1600.
Huette
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 23:48:34 -0500
From: Stefan li Rous <StefanliRous at austin.rr.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] sauerkraut
To: SCA-Cooks maillist SCA-Cooks <SCA-Cooks at ansteorra.org>
Adele de Maisieres commented:
> Louise Smithson wrote:
>> I figure that this will make the whole discussion more complicated.
>> I came across this recipe in Scappi some time ago. It refers to
>> cabbage in salt, packed in wooden barrels or ceramic vases. It
>> could easily be another salted cabbage or it could indeed be
>> sauerkraut. Although one could argue that just about any cabbage
>> stored in a salty liquid will become sauerkraut anyway.
>
> I believe you have hit the nail on the head, here. If you mix salt
> and cabbage in the right ratio, it _will_ turn into sauerkraut.
But I thought that sauerkraut was more than simply salted cabbage.
Isn't there some kind of fermentation going on? Isn't that where the
sour taste comes from? In which case, unless the yeasts/bacteria/
whatever are already there in/on the cabbage, there is no guarantee
that it will turn into sauerkraut, unless the needed beasties are
there in the air, the temperature is right etc.
If you salt the cabbage and then stick it in the refrigerator, you
get salted cabbage, right? Not sauerkraut.
Stefan
--------
THLord Stefan li Rous Barony of Bryn Gwlad Kingdom of Ansteorra
Mark S. Harris Austin, Texas
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 22:14:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: Pat <mordonna22 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] sauerkraut
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Yes, if you salt the cabbage and then stick it in the fridge, it
won't turn into sauerkraut.
However, do you remember me talking all those years ago about Auntie
Ruth? My ex's foster mother who taught me so much about German cooking?
Well, Auntie Ruth made several batches of Sauerkraut every year for
more than seventy years, and never added yeast. She'd just shred the
cabbage, layer it with salt in a stoneware churn, stick it in the
meathouse outside and wait a week or so. Nothing to it. 'Course
that meathouse had been standing for nearly a century and a half (it
was the "new" one, built after the first one burned,) and been used
to store ham and 'kraut for all that time, so there were probably
plenty of yeasty beasies in residence.
Mordonna
Stefan li Rous <StefanliRous at austin.rr.com> wrote:
>>>
In which case, unless the yeasts/bacteria/
whatever are already there in/on the cabbage, there is no guarantee
that it will turn into sauerkraut, unless the needed beasties are
there in the air, the temperature is right etc.
If you salt the cabbage and then stick it in the refrigerator, you
get salted cabbage, right? Not sauerkraut.
Stefan
<<<
Lady Anne du Bosc
known as Mordonna the Cook
Shire of Thorngill, Meridies
Mundanely, Pat Griffin of Millbrook, AL
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 19:13:11 +1200
From: Adele de Maisieres <ladyadele at paradise.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] sauerkraut
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Stefan li Rous wrote:
> But I thought that sauerkraut was more than simply salted cabbage.
> Isn't there some kind of fermentation going on? Isn't that where the
> sour taste comes from? In which case, unless the yeasts/bacteria/
> whatever are already there in/on the cabbage, there is no guarantee
> that it will turn into sauerkraut, unless the needed beasties are
> there in the air, the temperature is right etc.
Yes, there's a fermentation process, but it's incredibly reliable. You
don't need to add any sort of starter culture, and it works at a wide
range of temperatures (albeit at varying speeds).
> If you salt the cabbage and then stick it in the refrigerator, you
> get salted cabbage, right? Not sauerkraut.
I haven't tried this-- but I suspect it turns into sauerkraut
_eventually_. If you want it _not_ to become sauerkraut, you need to up
the ratio of salt to cabbage.
--
Adele de Maisieres
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 21:00:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: Holli Sicard <sicardrenfairefam at yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] sauerkraut
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
otsisto <otsisto at socket.net> wrote:
> Where do you get kraut muckers?
> Lyse
I got mine from a friend of mine. I'll ask her where she acquired
it. It says it was made in Germany by a company named Gartopf. I
did find this link:
http://www.aviva.ca/shop/products.asp?itemid=656&;catid=90
An Original HARSCH Fermentation Pot (7.5L), exactly what mine says on
the front.
It says there is a picture coming soon, but the description is
exactly what I have.
"Sudkeramik Fermentation Crock - Original System Harsch Natural
Fermentation is one of the oldest known preservation methods. Lactic
acid bacteria ferment the vegetables and they preserve longer, have a
pleasant acidic taste and rich contents of vitamins and minerals."
If you would like me to stake a few pics, let me know.
Holli
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 17:18:29 -0500
From: "otsisto" <otsisto at socket.net>
Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] sauerkraut
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
I found this
http://www.canningpantry.com/sauerkraut-crocks.html
Lyse
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 22:10:30 -0700
From: Susan Fox <selene at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] sauerkraut
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
> otsisto <otsisto at socket.net> wrote:
> I found this
> http://www.canningpantry.com/sauerkraut-crocks.html
>
> Lyse
*sheesh* The smallest on that page was $99 for a 5 liter crock. The Korean
market near my old house has comparable crocks for kim chee for under $20.
The lesson: shop the ethnic markets with the people who really make this
stuff at home, rather than the upscale catalogs with upscale prices for
yuppie dilettantes. I don't want to get fooled again!
Bluntly but honestly, as ever,
Selene Colfox
Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 09:19:02 +0200
From: Volker Bach <carlton_bach at yahoo.de>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] sauerkraut
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Am Samstag, 17. September 2005 07:10 schrieb Susan Fox:
> *sheesh* The smallest on that page was $99 for a 5 liter crock. The
> Korean market near my old house has comparable crocks for kim chee for
> under $20.
>
> The lesson: shop the ethnic markets with the people who really make this
> stuff at home, rather than the upscale catalogs with upscale prices for
> yuppie dilettantes. I don't want to get fooled again!
True. What is even better is that you can make sauerkraut in almost any
container that is waterproof. I haven't done it yet (I live in a small
apartment and my neighbours already complain enough about the egg tempera
paints and resin varnishes), but friends and relatives of mine have done it
in crockpots, enameled cookpots, buckets, glass jars, and in one documented