root-veg-msg – 5/9/20

Medieval root vegetables. carrots. potatoes. onions, parsnips, sweet potatoes, Radishes.

NOTE: See also the files: turnips-msg, vegetables-msg, beets-msg, onions-msg, leeks-msg, potatoes-msg, carrots-msg, veg-stuffed-msg, fennel-msg.

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NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.

Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

Thank you,
    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
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From: dragon7777 at juno.com (Susan A Allen)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 21:31:21 -0700
Subject: Re: sca-cooks Turnips

Rutabegas are not period, they are a turnip cabbage hybrid, created
for some reason that escapes me at the moment

Susan

>eaten raw. Also do not confuse turnips with rutabagas which are decidedly
>stronger in flavor. As a rule of thumb, turnips are small white at the
>bottom, with a light purple blush on top.
>
>Rutabagas are VERY large, usually coated with wax, yellowish flesh, 
>dirty white bottom and a deep purple top.
>
>Lord Ras


From: Michael Newton <Michael Newton at postoffice at worldnet.att.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Parsnip reciepe
Date: 15 Jun 1997 20:11:15 GMT

What kind of Stout {brand names would be helpful} would one use in this 
reciepe:

Parsnips Stewed in Dark Beer or Stout
1 lbs. parsnips peeled and cut in 2 in. chunks
1 cup dark beer or stout 
A 1 in piece of stick cinnamon
2 large blades of mace
3 whole cloves
pinch of salt
pinch of pepper

place all ingredients in a heavy, medium size saucepan and simmer, 
covered, 30 to 35 minutes until you can pierce patsnips easily with a 
fork. Turn heat to low and simmer, uncovered, 10 to 15 min. longer until 
the beer or stout has thickened into a glaze. Remove spices and serve 
parsnips hot as an accompaniment to roast fowl, ham, or pork.

From Recipes from America's Restored Villages
Chapter on Plimoth Plantation, Plymouth, Mass.
by Jean Anderson

I was thinking about making this receipe for a period potluck our shire 
is having next month.

Lady Beatrix of Thanet


From: "Sharon L. Harrett" <afn24101 at afn.org>
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 14:32:33 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: SC - Re: turnips

On Tue, 17 Jun 1997, Mark Schuldenfrei wrote:
> Kohlrabi.  Yummm.   I would think it a bit too zesty... but worth
> considering.  (My mother used to be *astonished* at the quantity of raw
> kohlrabi I would consume at one sitting.  And not a tiny bit upset: that
> stuff cost money.)
> 
> For those of you unfamiliar with kohlrabi, it is a root vegetable, rather
> ball shaped, and with several stalks arising from various places on the top
> hemisphere of the root.  It is a vaguely "institutional green", and we used
> to peel and slice it into salads.  Taste and texture similar to radishes
> that are slightly sharp.
> 
> I have no idea if it is period.  I do know it is delicious.
> 
> 	Tibor

I think it is. 

From what I can find in Gerard's Herbal, there is a "round Rape Cole" listed
and pictured, that looks exactly like a kohlrabi. He says that they grow in
Italy, Spain and Germany, from where he recieved his seeds. They are
accounted as daintie meats, contending with the Cabbage in taste.

Ceridwen


From: Uduido at aol.com
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 19:07:21 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: SC - Re: turnips

<< For those of you unfamiliar with kohlrabi, it is a root vegetable >>

Order Papaverales
Family Cruciferae
Brassica caulorapa

Native of Europe. Some people consider it variety (var. gongylodes) of
Broccoli (B. oleracea).


From: Uduido at aol.com
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 09:16:36 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: SC - Kohlrabi

<< I can see how you might describe it as radish-like.  I wonder if that is
caused by different growing conditions? >>

This is ideed the case. Kohlrabi must be grown with plenty of moisture and
cool temperatures rather quickly and eaten when fairly young. If not, the
tuber becomes woody and strong tasting. 

Lord Ras


Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 17:30:01 -0700
From: ladymari at GILA.NET (Mary Hysong)
Subject: SC - SKIRRETS

Hello, well, finally made it to the library after the skirret info. and
here it is:

"The  World Encyclopedia of Food"
copyright 1982 L. Patrick Coyle
ISBN 0-87196-417-1

(BTW really yummy book.. :-) ...once a herald, always a herald...  :-)

Page 612

I didn't copy word for word, this is the gist of the entry...

Skirret, also Chervin, the roots of Sium sisarum; originated in Eastern
Asai, but cultivated in Europe since Roman times.  Supposed to have a
sweet taste, with a woody core which is removed before cooking [rather
like parsnips, I think]  The taste is compared to sweet potates.  Also
dried and ground for a coffee substitute.

This is a huge book that has probably *almost* everything ever known to
have been eaten for  food in the world.  If anyone spots a source for
it, I would love to get a copy! to keep at home and read.

Well, good cooking and happy feasting everyone.
Mairi


Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 14:03:03 -0700
From: kat <kat at kagan.com>
Subject: SC - parsnips!

Juana Teresa entertained us with:
> Lady Katerine is SO right about the "underratedness" of parsnips.
> yea, parsnips....yea, parsnips...gimme a "P", gimme an "A"....

> sorry; I'll go quietly now.
> Juana Teresa

Go not, milady; I agree with you entirely!

I am always amazed and confuzzled by people who consider parsnips =
"yucky" or "bitter."  My father taught me his method of making parsnips; =
which are soooo lovely I've even served them at feasts (and cursed =
myself for not saving any for ME; they were vacuumed instantly...)

Would this be considered a "period" method of serving this very period =
veggie?  (..she asks, over a year since she already did it <blush>)

	Glenn's Minnesota Parsnips

	2-3 peeled parsnips, cut into sticks
	Butter
	White pepper

	Cut parsnips to size of veggie-tray carrot sticks (about 2-3" long; =
about 1/2 to 3/4" thick.  Parboil them till tender but NOT mushy (about =
10-20 minutes).  Throw them in a saucepan and fry them in butter, =
seasoned to taste with white pepper, till edges are golden-brown. =20

The end result is sweet as candy (just as sweet, in my opinion, as the =
brown-sugar-glazed carrots I serve them with every Thanksgiving) and =
absolutely delightful.  Please, let's not talk about cholesterol, =
though.... <grin>

What other parsnip recipes are out there?  Can someone give me a more =
period recipe?

	Always curious,
		- kat


Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 16:20:29 -0500
From: gfrose at cotton.vislab.olemiss.edu (Terry Nutter)
Subject: Re:  SC - parsnips! (was re:  chicken on string)

Hi, Katerine here.  kat asks whether parboiled parsnips fried lightly
in butter are period.  I haven't seen a recipe for that, but vegetables
are relatively lightly represented in the corpus, at least partly
because they were simply prepared (Taillevent even says so).

The recipes I know of call for boiling (there's a lovely soup of boiled
parsnips or turnips or skirrets in beef broth with sweet spices, for
instance).

- -- Katerine/Terry


Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 19:00:45 -0700
From: ladymari at GILA.NET (Mary Hysong)
Subject: Re: Re- SC - chicken on string

Melissa Hicks wrote:
[snipped a good bit]

> In all my modern herb books I cannot find 'skirrets' except one...which
> describes a herb with an edible root which was highly prized by the
> Romans and which has the botanical name:
> Sium Sisarum.  Any ideas anyone?
>
> Drake Morgan,
> Politarchopolis.

Aha!!Gardening--something I know lots about! I have a reference to
skirrets, just a minute.....Sorry that took so long <cough cough, the
dust on that bookcase is choking me...>

Here it is:
"Gardening for Good Eating"
Helen Morgenthau Fox
Collier Books, New York
Copyright 1943 by The Macmillan Company, renewed 1971 by the author
!st edition Collier Books, 1973
2nd printing 1974
these two are the paperback editions.
Library of Congress Catalog Card Number 72-12964

And I quote the entire passage, pages54 &55:
=================================================================

In the sixteenth century, skirrets, Sium sisarum, were brought to Europe
from Siberia and Persia, where they grew wild.  The plant is a hard
perennial and has fleshy twisted roots, clustered like dahlia tubers.
Formerly these roots were a highly esteemed vegetable.  Skirrets were
grown in Mobile, Alabama, in 1775 and are now obtinable from several
nurseries in the United States.  The plants make thick lush growth about
2 feet high.  The stems and divided leaves are a fresh yellow-green, and
the white flowers, in umbels, are somewhat weedy.  The shoots and stems
have been blanched and eaten as a spring salad.  They have a pleasant,
slightly camphoracieous taste, and the roots, too, have a pleasant
flavor.
    To increase the supply of plants, they can readily be grown from
see, or the roots can be divided in autumn, wintered over in a sandy bed
and set out again in the garden in spring.  They are hardy enough to
endure the winter outdoors, but this method of wintering over perennials
in the North has been found highly satisfactory.  It does away with the
danger of plants being heaved out of the earth through thawing and
freezing.
    The roots can be washed, scraped, and then steamed or boiled and
served like any root vegetables.  To keep them from darkening after
peeling, they are dropped in water with lemon in it.  This is Mrs.
Glasse's recipe to fricassee skirrets:
    Wash the roots very well, boil them till they are tender; the thin
skin of the roots must be removed and the roots are cut in slices--have
ready a little cream, a piece of butter rolled in flour, the yolk of an
egg beaten, a little nutmeg, 2 to 3 spoonfuls of white wine, a little
salt and stir all together.  Your roots being in a dish pour the sauce
over them.
    to this might be added, put the whole dish in the oven to brown.
Rosemary can be substituted for nutmeg.
===========================
Hope this helps you out, tho I don't know who might have seeds or
plants,you could check sead saver exchanges or rare seed companies.
Mairi
- --
Mary Hysong <Lady Mairi Broder, Atenveldt Kingdom Scribe> and  Curtis
Edenfield <The C-Man>


Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 12:57:16 SAST-2
From: "Ian van Tets" <IVANTETS at botzoo.uct.ac.za>
Subject: SC - skirret, succession-houses and nettles

Dear all and sundry,

This is my first message to the list.  I am another Adamastorian 
(Cape Town, South Africa), formerly of Lochac (Hi to any Stormholders 
out there.

First, that skirret 
is alive and well and can be got via some seed merchants.  Mine in 
Australia was Phoenix Seeds in Tasmania, who also give 
historical provenance, level of organic production of seed, and 
culinary/medicinal uses.  Incidentally, I found a period poem -oh, 
years ago - from Scotland about the glories of wild carrot.  
Something about honey underground between St. Andrew's Day and 
Christmas.  

<snip>

Cairistiona nic Bhraonnaguinn

Dr. Ian van Tets
Dept. of Zoology
University of Cape Town
Rondebosch 7701 RSA


Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 21:54:32 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - white drinks and other

Mark Harris wrote:
> Not for the swans, but wouldn't a turnip dish fit the idea of a "white" dish?
> Was there a mashed turnip dish similar to our mashed potatos?

I believe Digby has a recipe for mashed, buttered parsnips. They'd be
pretty white. Is there a specific chronological theme for this feast?

Adamantius


Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 10:55:54 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: SC - Potatoes

This is a repost of this message.  I received a message from the system
that it did not get properly sent and am reposting.  My apologies if you
have previosly received this message.

>>- 1586: Sir Thomas Herriot introduced potatoes to England from
>>  Colombia.
>
>Confirmation, anyone?
>
>Alasdair mac Iain

I don't have any direct reference, but this is possible if Herriot is
connected to Sir Francis Drake.  In February 1586, Drake tried to take
the Spanish treasure fleet at Cartagena, Colombia.  He missed the fleet,
but took the city and reprovisioned his ships.  It is believed by some
scholars that potatoes were among the supplies he seized.

Drake returned to England via Virginia (which may be when the potato was
introduced to North America).  There appears to be a scholarly dispute
whether potatoes were tasted in the English court following this voyage.

There is an English mathematician, Thomas Hariot, who in 1588 wrote A
Briefe and True Report of the New Found Land in Virginia describing
agriculture on Roanoke Island.  To my knowledge, there is no mention of
potatoes in Hariot's account.

Bear


Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:12:47 -0500 (EST)
From: "Jennifer L Rushman" <rushmanj at pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: Re: SC - Potato Notes.

    There are  many and varied kinds of Potatoes found in S. America.  They
come in a variety of colors (purple, golden yellow, red) on both the skin and
flesh!  I believe their botanical origin is there.  These colored varieties
can be found in a few markets in the US, although they are not very common.  I
have seen purple in Detroit, MI at their Dealer's Market.  This origin may
shed more light as to who brought them to Europe (and when)   In addition the
sweet potato is not in the same family as the common white potato (Irish
potato) we all know.  The Irish potato is in the Solonaceae where the sweet
potato is in the Convolvulaceae (Morningglory) family.  The flowers of each are
quite different. Here's an expert from a Web page I found discussing
sweet/Irish Potatoes:
"Nature Bulletin No. 169-A
 Forest Preserve District of Cook County, Ill.
 Seymour Simon, President
 Roberts Mann, Conservation Editor

****:THE SWEET POTATO


When the Spanish explorers first came to the New World they were

Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 13:06:31 -0500 (EST)
From: Stephen Bloch <sbloch at adl15.adelphi.edu>
Subject: SC - nightshades

Bogdan wrote:
> While I am not sure who brought them, I do know that they were not eaten
> for a while due to the pretty flowers.  Why, being in the nightshade
> family gave the tomato a late start too.  Nightshade was known, and the
> whole family was shunned.  Your random botanical fact for the day

Yes, tomatoes and potatoes are both Solanaceae, but so are eggplants,
which were widely used at least in Iberian cooking in the Middle Ages.

                                        mar-Joshua ibn-Eleazar ha-Shalib
                                                 Stephen Bloch
                                           sbloch at panther.adelphi.edu


Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 11:13:21 -0600
From: mfgunter at fnc.fujitsu.com (Michael F. Gunter)
Subject: SC - Parsnip/Carrot tart

> Gunthar, I really enjoyed the tart of Carrot & Parsnip. My toddler
> daughter who doesn't eat vegetables (can spot one BEFORE tasting it
> usually) even ate some.  Would you mind sending me the recipe?
>
> Thanks, Clarissa

Okay, here's what I have.

It's the recipe that was posted by Aiofe from Martha Washington's Boke of Cookery. Although the book is dated 1749 the supposed cookbook she used to copy this is estimated to date from the mid-1500's.

To Make a Tart of Parsnips and Scyrrets:

Seeth yr roots in water & wine, then pill them & beat them in a morter, with
raw eggs & grated bread. bedew them often with rosewater & wine, then streyne
them & put suger to them, some juice of leamons, & put it into ye crust; & when yr tart is baked cut up and butter it hot, or you may put some butter into it, when you set it into ye oven,  & eat it cold. Ye juice of leamon you may eyther put in or leave out at yr pleasure.

Redaction by Ld Ragnar Keitelsson

3/4 lb carrots
3/4 lb parsnips
2 c. wine
2 T. butter
1/2 cup sugar
1/2 cup wine and/or rosewater
2 eggs
Juice of 1 lemon (optional)
1 cup breadcrumbs
1 deepdish pie crust
egg for glaze

Peel and chop roots. Boil in 1 qt water and the 2 cups wine until soft. Mash
roughly with 1 cup breadcrumbs, the eggs, the butter (melted), sugar, lemon juice, and the rest of the wine/rosewater. A rough texture is fine. Put into a pre-glazed pie shell and glaze the top with the remaining egg, put into a pre-heated 400 degree oven for 50 minutes.

We tested this recipe and found it a little too sweet and too "rosey" so we cut
down on the parsnips (this was also for economic reasons) to a 3/1 carrot/parsnip ratio, used half the rosewater, and cut down on the sugar. Also we found a good dry white wine worked better than the sweet dessert wine we first tried. We added a bit of cinnamon and nutmeg to the mix. Also we pureed the parsnip/carrot mixture instead of the rough texture. These came out more like a rough pumpkin pie texture than the original.

They were served cold at the feast and I actually got far more compliments
on them than I expected.

Gunthar


Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 08:20:17 EST
From: LrdRas <LrdRas at aol.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Garden time

melc2newton at juno.com writes:
<< Is rhubarb medieval?  If so, how about some recipes?  I'm planning on
 planting one of these things in my yard (mainly for wine, mmmmmmm...).
 And would love to have proof of it's being "period."
 Beatrix >>

According to Waverly Root in "Food," rhubarb was reached the Western world
from China in the Roman era.  Pliny mentions it in passing, as does
Dioscorides. Ibn-el-Beithar wrote in the 13th century C.E. that rhubarb was
common in Syria and had "like chard, it has fairly thick stalks."  This
suggests that he may have realized it as good to eat and which part was eaten.

However, Europeans imported the root only as a medicinal, having in true
barbaric European fashion eaten the leaves early on with disastrous results.
Leonhard Ruuwolf saw it growing in Lebanon circa 1573-1575 C.E. It was growing
in certain abbeys as a medicinal and planted by a certain Adolf Occo in 1570
bringing it into the lay garden.  Lyte mentions it as growing in English
herborist's gardens as a curiosity in 1578 C.E. Prosper Albinus grew it in the
botanical gardens in Padua at the same time, describing and illustrating it in
his herbal.

It is not until the 18th century that we see reference to it's use as food.
And even into the 19th century, it was grown not so much for the edible stalks
but rather, in the case of Rheum rhaponticum, for it's edible unopened flower
heads.  R. rhaponticum curiously is the plant grown by Occo, Albinus Gerard
and Parkinson.

So apparently rhubarb was NOT grown as food during the Middle Ages although
it's roots were imported, or rarely grown, as medicine or botanical
curiosities with the exception of the more civilized Persian world where it's
culinary delights most probably were known.

That being the case, IMO, it deserves a place in the garden for it's medicinal
uses along side the many other herbs grown for this purpose.

Ras


Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 14:03:25 -0400
From: mermayde at juno.com (Christine A Seelye-King)
Subject: Re: SC - Celtic Feast Repost--Long

> Perhaps you could have included a turnip recipe of some sort.
>
>Mordonna

        Actually, we recently had the "Great Turnip Debate" on Tavern
Yard, and concluded that turnips weren't common that early in Britain.
They were brought over from the continent,  Waverly Root says "However,
it is on record that turnips were one of the principal foods of the
Flemish in the fifteenth century, and the first turnips to be sent to
England, in the first half of the fifteenth, came from Holland, with no
applause from such Britons as the one who wrote that 'the poor Dutch men,
like swine, digge up the rootes!'"

        Christianna


Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 11:05:53 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - gingered butternut squash soup (Was: Italian Ren Feast)

> Seannach asked...
> >I just found a modern recipe for gingered butternut squash soup that has
> sweet potatoes in it, and am making it tonight to test out.....is there
> any way this could be period?<

The references I have available suggest that the sweet potato (Ipomoea
batatas) entered Italy about 1528 with haricot beans as part of a
presentation to Pope Clement VII from Cortez's expedition into Mexico.

Bear


Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 08:54:00 EST
From: Seton1355 at aol.com
Subject: SC - my medieval dinner party - long

Last night I had some mundane friends over and served them a medieval feast.
They really enjoyed it and were interested in the background of the recipes.
The evening went off well so I thought I'd post the recipes I used.
Phillipa

<snip of ***Winter Squash or Pumpkin Soup*** recipe>

<snip of ***Chicken Ambrogino With Dried Fruit*** recipe>

<snip of ***Green Poree for Days of Abstainence*** recipe>

***Mashed turnips and parsnips***
I didn't have a recipe, but I've eaten this at several feasts.
4 medium turnips
2 medium parsnips
grains of paradise
cubeds
margarine

peel the veggies and boil until soft, about 20 minutes
Drain
Put the veggies back in the pot, throw in the margarine and a pinch of ground
cubeds and grains of paradise.
mash well and be sure to blend everything

<snip of gingerbread recipe>

Anyway, this was  my menu...oh yes, I also made fried potatoes, no recipe.
Everyone liked everything, includeing my picky son!
IS,
Phillipa


 Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 22:28:56 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - My first time..

"Amanda B. Humphrey" wrote:
> I am
> looking for a reference to radishes being period.  I am currently preparing
> an art/sci entry and need to document the things I am using for my
> soltetie.  I have thus far been able to find turnips, and apples, and
> parsley, etc.  But radishes seem to elude me at every turn.  Could someone
> suggest a book or web site or just a bibliography type reference that
> mentions radishes?

They appear in 14th-century English recipes as rafens (from the Latin
raphanus), and as radich (es) . Check out Constance Hieatt's and Sharon
Butler's "Curye On Inglysch", published by the Oxford University Press
for the Early English Text Society in 1985; it contains an excellent
glossary of Middle English culinary terms, with an entry on rafens.
There may or may not be similar information somewhere in "Pleyn Delit"
by the same authors. (Not that Hieatt and Butler wrote the manuscripts
transcribed in either of the books, but they wrote more of "Pleyn Delit".)

Adamantius


Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 00:58:41 -0400
From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net>
Subject: Re: SC - My first time..

And it came to pass on 21 Apr 99,, that Amanda B. Humphrey wrote:
> You are all so helpful and always seem to know where to find things .  I
> am looking for a reference to radishes being period.

The _Arte Cisoria_ a 15th century Spanish carving manual, mentions
radishes in the chapter on carving vegetables.  It suggests that they be
sprinkled with salt to make the water come out of them, in order to
temper their sharpness and frigidity.

> Lady Bebhinn O'Siodhachain
> Shire of Starhaven
> Kingdom of Trimaris

Lady Brighid ni Chiarain
Settmour Swamp, East (NJ)


Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 19:52:24 -0400
From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net>
Subject: SC - Period potato recipe

I was browsing through one of my Spanish cookbooks, looking for
something else entirely, when I came across a recipe for a citron-potato
conserve.  In view of past discussions, I thought it might interest some
of the gentles here.

Source: "Libro del Arte de Cozina" (Spanish, 1599); translation mine

CIDRA Y PATATA -- Citron and Potato

The citron must be mature, make it into four quarters, and remove the
sourness, and peel it, and then grate it, and cast it in to cook, and
having brought it to boil two or three times, set it aside, and let it cool,
and then wash it in tepid water, and cast it in a hair sieve, and wash it in
cold waters, until it is not bitter, and leave it until it drains very well.  The potatoes must be large, and washed, and cast them in to cook, and
when they are tender, peel them, and pass them through a clarifying
hair sieve, and then weigh it, and combine it with the citron, and mix it
all well, and have in a boiler clarified sugar, and instantly, [it being]
thick, cast it in, and set it to cook on a fire of coals, which should be
mild, and let it cook, and stir it constantly with one hand, so that it
doesn't stick, and when the bottom of the boiler becomes white, it is
cooked: cast in a little orange-blossom water, and a little musk, and set
it aside, and beat it a while until it cools, and then cast it in the box,
and have it five or six days in the sun, and then keep it.  The quantity
must be, to two pounds of sugar, one and a quarter of potato, and one
of citron.

Lady Brighid ni Chiarain
Settmour Swamp, East (NJ)


Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 08:27:49 -0400
From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Citron and Potato

And it came to pass on 4 May 99,, that Stefan li Rous wrote:
> Lady Brighid ni Chiarain posted a recipe:
> >
> > Source: "Libro del Arte de Cozina" (Spanish, 1599); translation mine
> >
> > CIDRA Y PATATA -- Citron and Potato
>
> How sure are you that the potato that is meant is the white potato?

I am not certain at all, but I felt that period recipes for any kind of potato
were rare enough to be of interest.  One possible clue is that the
mixture is to be cooked until the stuff at the bottom of the boiler turns
white.  If you were starting with white potato and citron and sugar, then I
assume the mixture would become more opaque, and look whiter.  If
you started with sweet potato in the mixture, could it change enough to
be called white?  I'm out of my field here -- I have never dabbled in
conserves or confectionary.  Maybe Mistress Alys Katherine would like
to add her two pence?

> Particularly with the sweetener and the Citron this sounds more like
> something for a sweet potato.

To our modern taste, yes, but there are many medieval recipes which
add sweetening to things we would find unusual.  There's a recipe for
sweetened cooked lettuce not far from the one I translated, and...
Hmmm... I was just flipping pages here.  Found another recipe, this one
for "Carne de Limon, y Batatas" -- flesh of lemon and sweet potatos.  In
modern Spanish at least, "patata" is the term for the white potato.
"Batata" or "patata dulce" is the sweet potato.  So unless you want to
argue scribal error (which is *always* possible), it looks to me as
though we have two potato recipes, one of each kind.  (Yes, Ras, I'll
post the other, but right now I have to go to work.)

I wish I'd noticed this before, but this source is not the one I'm primarily
working with, and it's over 400 pages, and as a diabetic, I don't pay
much attention to confectionary recipes.

Lady Brighid ni ChiarainDate: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 16:36:35 -0400
From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow)
Subject: Re: SC - Questions about Archives and Carrots

I just looked at a site yesterday that offered seeds for heirloom carrots
in a variety of colors:  http://www.webslnger.com/wethepeople/

Wild carrots have white roots.  Le Menagier talks of carrots with red
roots.  Gervase Markham mentions carrots of "sundry colours", and Gerard
describes a yellow carrot, and a blackish-red carrot.  Carrots colored pale
orange and dark red can be seen in oil paintins of the 16th century.
Epulario uses carrots to make a jelly a sanguine color.

Cindy Renfrow/Sincgiefu
renfrow at skylands.net


Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 10:11:39 -0600 (MDT)
From: Ann Sasahara <ariann at nmia.com>
Subject: SC - Harvest Time - root recipe sources

_To the Queen's Taste_ by Lorna J. Sass, has a few Elizabethan root veggie recipes:
Lumbardy Tartes - diced red beets, currants and cheese baked in a pie 
Pudding in a Turnep Root - turnips stuffed w/ apples and currants 
Quelquechose - parsnips and marigolds in orange juice. 

I have made the quelquechose and it is pretty tasty.  It's like candied/sugared carrots in Peg Bracken's _I hate to cook_ book.

_Dining with William Shakespeare_ by Madge Lorwin white radishes (cooked w/ honey) boiled beets and fresh greens sallet stewed turnips on sippits raw turnip sallatl umbardy (beet) tartesoops of carrots (honeyied carrot soppets) raw white radishes w/ bread boiled carrot sallet Ariann


Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 13:58:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: cclark at vicon.net
Subject: Re: SC - Harvest Time - root recipe sources

There's one near the beginning of _Forme_of_Cury_, called "Rapes in potage"
(turnips in stew). At the end it says that "pasturnakes" (parsnips and/or
carrots) can be substituted for the "rapus."

For either the "rapus" or the "pasturnakes," you clean and parboil the
roots, then cook them in broth with minced (and maybe parboiled) onions,
saffron, and salt. Sprinkle it with sweet spice powder (powdour douce) just
before serving. I cooked this for a feast last year, and for vegetarians
there was a separate batch made with almond milk and a bit of oil instead of
broth.

Later in the same book is a recipe for "Frytour of pasternakes" where pieces
of parsnips (or carrots?) are coated in an ale batter, fried, and served
with almond milk.

If I recall correctly, Platina has a recipe for "armored turnips," whose
cheese coating does little to stop hungry eaters. :-)

Alex Clark/Henry of Maldon


Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:57:51 SAST-2
From: "Jessica Tiffin" <jessica at beattie.uct.ac.za>
Subject: Re: SC - It's Harvest Time

>There's a problem, though. I've searched through some of my historic cook books
>and I'm having difficulty finding recipes which use carrots (or parsnips for
>that matter), turnips, and beets.

I assume you have the old standbys?  Platina's Armoured turnips
(layered with cheese, in Cariadoc); there's also a _wonderful_ recipe
for turnips cooked in wine with chestnuts, I can't remember where
it's from offhand, but it's in Pleyn Delit.  (As you may guess, I'm
at work and have nary a book with me).  Using a semi-sweet white wine
takes away the slight bitterness of turnips _beautifully_.

Cariadoc also has a couple of broths with turnips, parsnips and
carrots, from Platina and Curye on Inglish.  Cariadoc's recipes are
listed at http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/cariadoc/recipe_toc.html; mail
me if you don't have web access and I can send them to you.

Jehanne de Huguenin, called Melisant  *  Seneschal, Shire of Adamastor, Cape Town
(Jessica Tiffin, University of Cape Town)


Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 13:37:30 -0700
From: lilinah at grin.net
Subject: SC - I Am What I Yam

Lord Stefan li Rous wrote:
>I believe we determined earlier on this
>list that sweet potatoes were New World. But yams were African. So
>I guess if you were considering sweet potatoes a close replacement
>for yams, it could be period. I don't eat sweet potatoes or yams, so
>I can't say how close they are in taste or texture.

There is a problem of terminology when using the word "yam" in the USA, at
least.

The smooth red skinned, deep golden fleshed tuber commonly called a "sweet
potato" and the smooth red skinned but lighter yellow fleshed tuber often
called a "yam" in the US are both actually "sweet potatoes", merely
variations of the same family of convolvulaceous plants, Ipomoea batatas.
According to my dictionary, the word "potato" derives from a word in the
Taino language from the Caribbean.

Yams are different kinds of starchy tubers, from the climbing vines of the
genus Dioscorea (a different genus from Ipomoea, obviously), generally
white fleshed with rough brown skins.

They grow in a number of different tropical regions, including Asia and the
Pacific Islands, in addition to Africa (and there may be some in the South
American tropics, too). They can occasionally be found in stores that
specialize in Pacific Islands foods, African foods, or Caribbean foods (or
here in Northern California, at some supermarkets).

According to my dictionary, "yam" comes from West Africa/Senegal nyami, "to
eat". In my experience, the cooked flesh is very white, not very flavorful,
and has a significantly different texture from Ipomoea batatas, a little
gummy.

So REAL yams may be African, but they are NOT the yellow sweet potatoes
Americans often call yams. They're a whole 'nother animal, errr, i mean,
vegetable.

Anahita


Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:27:51 EDT
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - ramp

harper at idt.net writes:
<< who has always called the chive-like stuff in her lawn, "onion
 grass") >>

Or it may be just wild chives. Chives readily reseed then selves.

Ramps more clearly resemble a small leek in structure with flattened leaves
instead of tubular ones. They do not resemble chives (perhaps garlic chives)
but are bigger than chives. They can grow to 12 inches high or more. Although
tasty they leave a foul odor on your breath and it exudes from your pores for
hours after eating them.

Ras


Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 14:40:45 GMT
From: "Liam Fisher" <macdairi at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: SC - ramp

>     Rhiannon, to the best of my understanding ramps are different from the
>stuff growing in our yards around here, which I've always >heard called
>simply "wild onions."

ramp (ramp), n. Usu., ramps. a wild onion, Allium tricoccum, of the
amaryllis family, of E North America, having flat leaves and rounded
clusters of whitish flowers.

We have what is called "Onion Grass" here which is essentially wild onions,
and we have some ramps here too.  They're kinda garlicish-onioney in taste,
and hard to find around here because most people just mow them.

If it looks like a thinner scallion type onion, it is just that
a wild onion.

>I have the vague impression that ramps grow at higher
>elevations, possibly just because of the "Ramp Festival" I remember
> >hearing about up on a mountain in the Smokies somewhere.

Yep. I forget the town though.

>And yes, the >wild onions in our yards are indeed edible, but the >are so
>strongly >flavored that I wouldn't advise using them raw (In >salads,
>etc.). I think I'd use them in something that required long, >gentle
>cooking, perhaps a stew of some kind. They are one
>of the things I've been meaning to play with someday, and haven't >quite
>gotten around too yet........... ;-)

The wild onions go great in stocks.  The ones around here (and in my yard
:-) ) have a nice earthy-onion-garlic (but very different from a leek) taste
and since I only use the green most of the time since I like the little
buggers to grow as big as possible so I can use them in a soup or maybe
something I'm going to braise. I think I'm going to pot some and if I can
find some ramps, them too.

Ldy Diana, only a couple of hours north of Rhiannon, in Chattanooga


Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 20:06:27 -0900
From: Kerri Canepa <kerric at pobox.alaska.net>
Subject: SC - Turnips - again!

Quite by accident, I got to play with turnips recently. Having had no luck
finding 14th c, simple root vegetable dishes (16th c ones seem to abound), I
decided to see what I could come up with.

A Disshe of Rape

Take rape and washe hem and scrape hem and cut hem small, put hem in good water
to boyle until it is enow, throw out the water and put hem in a pot of good
broth and put in salt and pepir and boyle again and serve forth.

3 fist sized turnips
water to cover
1 can beef broth
black pepper, ground

Wash, peel, and julienne turnips (1/4 inch). Cover with water and boil for 15
minutes. Drain. Put turnips with beef broth back in the pot and simmer until
liquid is nearly gone. Salt and pepper to taste.

The first try was with chicken broth and about 3 tbs of red wine. The wine gave
the turnips a rather odd brownish color and made them rather sharp tasting. The
second try with beef broth and pepper was definitely much better tasting.

The 1/4 inch julienne breaks down to smaller pieces and the turnips are very
soft by the time this is done. They could be mashed if desired but I rather
liked the smallish pieces. I put in quite a bit of pepper and it was quite
lively.

My husband the carnivore ate the first version (chicken broth and wine) and went
for more. Hm. I could be on to something here.

Kerri
Cedrin Etainnighean, OL


Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 04:24:26 -0500 (EST)
From: cclark at vicon.net
Subject: Re: SC - Turnips - again!

Kerri/Cedrin Etainnighean wrote:
> ... no luck finding 14th c, simple root vegetable dishes ...

Try _Forme of Cury_ recipe 7:

Rapes in potage. Take rapus and make hem clene, and wassh hem clene; quarter
hem; perboile hem, take hem vp. Cast hem in a gode broth and see[th] hem;
mynce oynouns and cast [th]erto safroun and salt, and messe it forth with
powdour douce. In the self wise make of pasturnakes and skyrwittes.

Henry of Maldon/Alex Clark


Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 17:56:09 EST
From: CorwynWdwd at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Late Fall/Early Winter Vegetables

lilinah at grin.net writes:
> I must say that there have been multiple requests to NOT serve
>  armoured turnips *again*.

Is this due to the number of times served? Or is it that people don't like
turnips? If the latter, I've had great success substituting parsnips. Before
anyone asks, I can't quote one single period reference to parsnips being
substituted for any other root veggie, but it works well here. I have also
pleased the crowd with parsnip frittors, taking boiled parsnips sprinkling
with powder dulse and wrapping in eggroll wrappers and frying. Peas boiled in
almond milk are well liked in this area too. Just a few thoughts off the top
of my head.

Corwyn


Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 07:08:54 -0500 (EST)
From: cclark at vicon.net
Subject: Re: SC - Late Fall/Early Winter Vegetables

Corwyn said:
> ... I can't quote one single period reference to parsnips being
>substituted for any other root veggie, but it works well here. ...

I can!

Rapes in potage (near the beginning of the _Forme of Cury_) says that one
can use the same recipe to prepare skirrets or pasternakes. Pasternakes are
parsnips and/or carrots.

I haven't tried armoring them, though. What's a good cheese to use on parsnips?

Henry of Maldon/Alex Clark


Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 09:19:38 -0800
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
Subject: RE: SC - New World Foods-list

Bear wrote:
>Yams are of African origin and were probably brought into Europe early in
>the 14th Century.

Yes, but what Americans call yams are of New World origin. African 
yams are a whole different vegetable.

Both what Americans call Sweet Potatoes (with deep orangy yellow 
flesh) *AND* what Americans call Yams (with pale yellow flesh) are 
just two varieties of the same plant, both from the New World, with 
flesh of differing shades of yellow and purplish, mostly smooth skin, 
both Ipomoea batatas.

What are called yams that are from Africa is something one rarely 
finds in America, and is a tuber with white flesh and rough cocoa 
brown skin, and are from a number of different plants within genus 
Dioscorea.

Anahita al-shazhiya


Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 00:57:23 -0500
From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net>
Subject: Re: SC - RE: selecting roots and vegetables

And it came to pass that RANDALL DIAMOND wrote:
> Has anyone ever seem any period evidence of preparing cooked
> radishes or for that matter, any period documentation of
> radishes being eaten at all in period?

_Arte Cisoria_, a 1423 carving manual, gives instructions for the proper 
way to slice radishes.  It suggests that they should be sprinkled with 
salt, in order to counteract the cold, watery quality of the vegetable.  It 
does not indicate if the radishes are then to be eaten raw or cooked.

_Banquete de Nobles Caballeros_ (1530 health manual) has a short 
chapter on radishes.  It is mostly on their medical properties.  Radish is 
bad for the stomach.  Eaten before the meal, it can cause vomiting.  
However, it counteracts poison; a person who eats radishes will be 
immune if he is stung by a scorpion that same day.  On a more culinary 
note... the author comments that it is a customary food, especially 
amongst students, and that it makes a good supper when eaten with 
cheese.  This is also enjoyed by the folk of the palace.  There is no 
indication whether this is a cold supper, or if the radish is cooked with 
the cheese, a la armored turnips.

De Nola (1529) has a recipe for sauce made from the root of "vexisco" 
radish.  It's ground up with toasted bread soaked in vinegar, then 
cooked with pepper and honey.  The same preparation method is also 
used for parsley leaves and for the leaves of clary sage.

Lady Brighid ni Chiarain
Settmour Swamp, East (NJ)


Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 10:46:26 EST
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - RE: selecting roots and vegetables

Bronwynmgn at aol.com writes:
<<  If I recall, the middle English word 
 for radishes is "rafens"; am I correct in this?
 
 Brangwayna Morgan >>

rad*ish (noun)

[Middle English, alteration of Old English raedic, from Latin radic-, radix 
root, radish -- more at ROOT]

SFAIK, rafens is equal to rasens is equal to raisins............

Ras


Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 11:24:05 -0500
From: Ian Gourdon <agincort at raex.com>
Subject: SC - Re: radishes, cooked

> > Could someone
> > suggest a book or web site or just a bibliography type reference that 
> > mentions radishes?

>Um, yes, in compost. There's also a sugar candy which uses radishes as a
>substitute for pepper, IIRC. Pynades or some such. But cooked in cream
>sauce in period, I'm not aware of anything like that. On the other hand,
>since period ended (roughly) some sixteen generations ago, it's quite
>possible what he says is correct, but they could still not be period.
>Adamantius

Pynade 
Curye on Inglysch p. 79 (Diuersa Servicia no. 91) 
  For to make a pynade, tak hony and rotys of radich & grynd yt smal in
a morter, & do to + at hony a quantite of broun sugur. Tak powder of
peper & safroun & almandys, & do al togedere. Boyl hem long & held yt on
a wet bord & let yt kele, & messe yt & do yt forth.
- -- 
Ian Gourdon of Glen Awe, OP
Known as a forester of the Greenwood, Midrealm


Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 03:03:25 +0100
From: Thomas Gloning <gloning at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE>
Subject: SC - period radishes

<< Doesn't  4 Seasons of the House of Cerruti say something about
radishes? >>

Yes, there is a page on "Rafani" with a picture and the abbreviated text
from the Tacuin sanitatis. In short: it is very warm and dry in nature,
dangerous in several respects ("Was sie erzeugen: schlechte S‰fte" 'what
they produce: bad humours'), to be eaten mostly by people with a cold
and humid complexion, in winter, and people living in northern, cold
countries.

I hope, everybody out there knows about her or his humoral complexion...

<< I am looking for a reference to radishes being period. I am currently
preparing (...) Could someone suggest a book or web site or just a
bibliography type reference that mentions radishes >>

There are many dietetic and medical works to mention "raphanus",
"radish", "Rettich" etc., for example:
- -- Giovanni Battista Fiera's "Coena. Delle virt? delle erbe e quella
parte dell'Arte medica che consiste nella regola del vitto" (1530; repr.
and ed. Mantova 1992, 79 and 133), 
- -- Andrew Borde's 'Dyetary of Helth' (16th century, ed. Furnivall 1870,
p. 279),
- -- the 15th century cookbook and dietetic work of Meister Eberhard (on
my website; R96:2), 
- -- Luis Lobera de Avila has a section about it (chapter XLII. of the
16th century German translation, I found recently!), 
- -- etc.

There is also a 1530 dental handbook stating that eating "Rettich" is
dangerous for the teeth. And a 13th century horse book uses "retich" in
a medical recipe for sick horses ("Swelich ros ain siechs havpt hab ...
der nem retich, wol gederret ...", ed. Gerhard Eis, Meister Albrants
Ro?arzneibuch, 1939, 111:5). An appendix to a 1560 German cookery book
has a medical recipe for frozen feet to be cured using "Rettich" ("Wann
einem die f¸? erfroren sindt") ...

In addition, "radici" 'ravanelli' 'radishes' are mentioned in Giovanna
Frosini's "Il cibo e i signori. La mensa dei priori di Firenze nel
quinto decennio del sec. XIV" (Firenze 1993, 118), a lexicographical
book about the culinary vocabulary of an Italian 14th century manuscript
of expenses. I take it from this, that radishes were bought and eaten
around 1350 in Florenze.

The historical dictionaries of German have _many_ citations for
"Rettich".

Best,
Thomas


Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 06:52:58 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: SC - Carrots and Turnips-Period?

From: WyteRayven at aol.com
> My family has a very simple recipe that has been handed down from sometime 
> before my Great-grandmother. She was born in England, and I am curious if 
> there are period recipes similar to this. I will be checking the Florilegium, 
> but I thought that I would send out a note as well.
> 
> The recipe really has no measurements. Everything is done to taste. It is 
> simply peel  boil some carrots, and some turnips (a little less turnips than 
> carrots) and mash them together with lots of butter and salt and pepper.
> 
> I used to hate it as a kid, but I love it now, though we tend to only have it 
> during holidays.
> 
> I think that both carrots and turnips are  period, but I don't know if the 
> dish might be or not.

I don't know if the dish as you describe it is period, but --

Kenelm Digby (1669 C.E.) has a recipe for parsnips cooked this way. He
includes, IIRC, a bit of the cooking water so that when the butter melts
it remains emulsified, the whole forming a rather creamy puree...I
occasionally refer to this dish as parsnips Alfredo ;  ), but there's no
cheese. But you know... Hmmm....

Carrots are referred to rather infrequently in the known medieval
European recipe corpus, but they did exist, if a bit closer to a parsnip
than a modern carrot.

As for turnips, they appear somewhat more frequently. These would be the
real purple-and-white turnips, rather than the rutabaga or Swede, which
is sometimes referred to as a turnip.

I have a diner in my neighborhood that invariably makes a mashed mixture
of carrots and parsnips in the colder months, and the smart money is on
it rather than the overcooked broccoli, the mysteriously grey peas and
carrots, and the leathery corn.

Adamantius


Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 09:14:40 -0400
From: "Jeff Gedney" <JGedney at dictaphone.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Carrots and Turnips-Period?

> You know, I tried parsnips for the first time about a month ago, and I have 
> to say that I don't think I care for them.

Try this ( I am sure it is not period, but it IS very yummy ):

Slice 1 lb Parsnips about 1/4 inch thin slices and fry in a little oil and butter until very well browned. (dont be timid, more done is better than less done!)

Melt 1/2 stick butter and and 1/4 cup honey together and add 1 tsp 
fresh chopped tarragon. 1 1/2 tsp dried (or more if the tarragon is old) Place 
the parsnips in a bowl, and pour honey mixture on it. Toss and serve hot.

The key to this is the pan fry which caramelizes the parsnips and brings out 
the natural sweetness which is otherwise held in the woody root cells.

You can do this recipe with Carrots, too, especially if they are those big 
woody ones you get in high summer.

Brandu


Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 14:46:43 -0500
From: "catwho at bellsouth.net" <catwho at bellsouth.net>
Subject: SC - Found it was:  Carrots and Turnips-Period?

I knew that turnips and carrots sounded familiar. So I dug through my 
recipe sites and came up with this one;

Rapes in Potage 

[or Carrots or Parsnips]

Curye on Inglysch p. 99 (Forme of Cury no. 7)

Take rapus and make hem clene, and waissh hem clene; quarter hem;
perboile hem, take hem vp. Cast hem in a gode broth and see+ hem;
mynce oynouns and cast + erto safroun and salt, and messe it forth
with powdour douce. In the self wise make of pastunakes and
skyrwittes.

Note: rapes are turnips; pasternakes are either parsnips or carrots;
skirrets are, according to the OED, "a species of water parsnip,
formerly much cultivated in Europe for its esculent tubers." We have
never found them available in the market.

1 lb turnips, carrots, or parsnips
2 c chicken broth (canned, diluted)
1/2 lb onions
6 threads saffron
3/4 t salt
powder douce: 2 t sugar, 3/8 t cinnamon, 3/8 t ginger

Wash, peel, and quarter turnips (or cut into eighths if they are
large), cover with boiling water and parboil for 15 minutes. If you
are using carrots or parsnips, clean them and cut them up into large
bite-sized pieces and parboil 10 minutes. Mince onions. Drain turnips,
carrots, or parsnips, and put them with onions and chicken broth in a
pot and bring to a boil. Crush saffron into about 1 t of the broth and
add seasonings to potage. Cook another 15-20 minutes, until turnips or
carrots are soft to a fork and some of the liquid is boiled down.
Melbrigda
There was som deceptyon or frawdulent
induction that hath made her to condescende 
therunto


Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 14:50:05 +1000
From: Lorix <lorix at trump.net.au>
Subject: Re: SC - Carrots and Turnips-Period?

Jeff Gedney wrote:
> Try this ( I am sure it is not period, but it IS very yummy ):

<snipped recipe for fried parsnips caramelized with honey & suggestion of doing this with carrots>

I am sure that I have seen a honeyed carrot recipe in Platina, but do not have that source to hand.

At the end of my posting I have reprinted another's posted recipe for making 'a Tart of Parsneps and Scyrrets'.

I have found a honeyed turnip & carrot recipe in Le Menagier de Paris Translated by Janet Hinson.  Obtained from web site:
http://www.best.com/~ddfr/Medieval/Cookbooks/Menagier/Menagier.html
Under the section titled 'Other Odds & Ends', there is a recipe to make "compote". The result seems to be a preserve, but it does not specify whether you serve it hold or cold & it would be very nice served hot ;-)

It starts with a recipe for making walnuts essentially preserved in honey and
ultimately left "in an earthenware pot or cask, and stir once a week".  Then it goes on to give recipes for preparing preserved turnips, carrots, choke-pears & gourds. The way I have read the sequential  recipes is that each of the preserves are prepared separately and are _kept_ separately.  Ie, it does not appear from the translated text that each additional preserve is added to the one before.  It seems merely a series of individual recipes, particularly since it later goes on to describe a recipe where the preserves can be used, but seems more to be referring to just the walnut preserve rather than the other recipes - I would like other's feedback here on what they think ;-)

Anyway, included in the recipes is the following for turnips & carrots, when it
states "take honey & do the same as the walnuts", I have reprinted the appropriate text from the walnut recipe below the other 2:

Take, around All Saints Day (November 1), large turnips, and peel them and chop them in quarters, and then put on to cook in water: and when they are partially cooked, take them out and put them in cold water to make them tender, and then let them drain; and take honey and do the same as with the walnuts, and be careful not to over-cook your turnips.  Item, on All Saints, take carrots as many as you wish, and when they are well cleaned and chopped in pieces, cook them like the turnips.
(Carrots are red roots which are sold at the Halles in baskets, and each basket costs one blanc.) . . .Item, when gourds are in season, take those which are neither too hard nor too tender, and peel them and remove the seeds and cut into quarters, and do the same to them as to the turnips.

Re details for preserving with honey from walnut recipe:
"and then put them [walnuts] on to boil in sweet water and let them boil just for the length of time it takes to say a Miserere, and until you see that there are none which are too hard or too soft. Then empty the water, and put them to drain on a screen, and then boil a sixth of honey or as much as they need to be all covered, and the honey should be strained and skimmed: and when it is cooled down to just warm, add your walnuts and leave them two or three days, and then put them to drain, and take as much of your honey as they can soak in, and put the honey on the fire and make it come to a good boil and skim it, and take it off the fire: and put in each hole in your walnuts a clove in one side and a little snip of ginger in the other, and then put them in the honey when it is lukewarm. And stir it two or three times a day, and at the end of three days take them out: and gather up the honey, and if there is not enough, add to it and boil and skim and boil, then put your walnuts in it; and thus each week for a month. And then leave them in an earthenware pot or a cask, and stir once a week."

TO MAKE A TART OF PARSNEPS AND SCYRRETS
The redaction (Redacted By Lord Ragnar Keitelson, Prepared by he and his Lady Wife Rowan of Ashebrook):
From Martha Washingtonís Booke of Cookery p749, containing recipes from at least the previous century.:  ìSeeth yr roots in water& wine, then pill them & beat them in a morter, with raw eggs & grated bread. bedew them often with rosewater & wine, then streyne them & put suger to them * some juice of leamons, & put it into ye crust; & when yr tart is baked cut up & butter it hot, or you may put some butter into it, when you set it into ye oven, & eat it cold. Ye juice of leamon you may eyther put in or leave out at yr pleasure. ì

We chose carrots for flavor and color, Scyrets (a white root resembling the shape and flavor of carrots) not being available.  Besides, that makes the tarte red and white!

 3/4 lb. carrots
 3/4 lb. parsnips
 2 c. wine
 2 tbsp. butter
 1/2 c. sugar
 1/2 c. wine and/or rosewater
 2 eggs
 1 c. breadcrumbs
 1 deep dish pie crust
 egg for glaze
Peel and chop roots. Boil in 1 qt H2O and the 2 c. wine until soft. Mash roughly with 1 c. breadcrumbs, the eggs, the butter, melted, sugar, and rest of  wine/rosewater. A rough texture here is fine. Put into pre-glazed pie crust (brush some of the egg across the bottom to prevent soggy crust), glaze top with remaining egg, put in pre-heated 400 degree oven for 50 mins.

Lorix


Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 22:05:21 -0400
From: Jennifer L Sweet <minxkitten at juno.com>
Subject: SC - Roots and war

	okay, now this may or may not be of use.  concerning the storage of root
vegetables, the book Stocking Up, by Rodale Press, copyright date 1977
states:  By alternating layers of dried leaves with layers of produce in
wooden boxes, they have firm and edible potatoes, apples, rutabagas,
carrots, and beets for as long as 50 weeks after they stored them... 
Pails, baskets and watertight barrels are used just as boxes
are...finishing with 2 inches or more of packing at the top.
	other packing materials recommended are hay, straw, sphagnum moss, or
damp crumpled burlap.  they actually mention old clean stockings for
onions and garlic... stuff one into the toe, tie a knot, stuff another in
behind the first, tie a knot, etc.

Branwen


Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 22:40:57 -0000
From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Nanna_R=F6gnvaldard=F3ttir?=" <nannar at isholf.is>
Subject: Re: SC - CAWL CENNIN CYMRAEG - WELSH LAMB STEW WITH LEEKS

Adamantius wrote:
>I believe swedes/rutabagas existed in Europe in period, but I could be
>remembering a non-fact. I have a vague recollection of them being
>introduced to places like Britain somewhat after period, but I believe
>they are indigenous to Eurasia and as old as other root vegetables.

While the origins of the swede/rutabaga are somewhat shrouded in mystery,
most sources agree that they originate in Central Europe, probably in the
late medieval period, and reached England and France via Sweden in late 17th
or early 18th century, probably mostly as a fodder plant. IIRC, they weren¥t
grown for human consumption in Britain until the latter part of the 18th
century but I may be wrong - I don¥t have the source for this at hand just
now. (The name rutabaga is also of Swedish origin, as they were widely grown
in Sweden early on.)

Swedes/rutabagas were brought to Iceland in the 18th century and became
quite popular, as they are one of the easiest vegetables to grow in the
harsh conditions here. They were one of the three vegetables of my childhood
(the others were potatoes and white cabbage). The Icelandic Rutabaga
Farmer’s Association is trying to advertise them as "the lemon of the
North", Yeah, right.

Nanna


Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 15:09:08 EDT
From: BaronessaIlaria at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Protectorate Feast 3 - Menu

ddfr at best.com writes:
> I'm not familiar with the recipe. Is it clear that it was written pre-1600, 
and is it clear 
> that it is sweet potatoes? While I know of references to eating potatoes 
just pre-
> 1600, I didn't know of any actual recipes that early--but then, there's a 
lot I don't 
> know about late period cooking.

In the preface to the book, there is mention of an inscription in the front 
of Elinor Fettiplace's Receipt Book which says: Lady Elinor Fettiplace, 1604. 
Fettiplace offers three recipes with sweet potatoes.

Prior to this recipe, Hilary Spurling states: "If almond soup goes back to 
medieval times, the buttered potato roots given below  were still, in the 
late sixteenth and early seventeenth centuries, a brand new vegetable from 
the New World. Columbus had brought sweet potatoes back from America (our 
ordinary modern potato did not reach the English markets until the 1640's) 
and by Lady Fettiplace's day they had become a regular autumn import from 
Spain, highly popular on account of their supposed aphrodesiac properties."

On pg 193: To Butter Potato Roots
"Take the roots & boile them in water, till they bee verie soft, then peele 
them & slice them , then put some rosewater to them & sugar & the pill of an 
orenge, & some of the iuice of the orenge, so let them boile a good while, 
then put some butter to them & when it is melted, serve them. This way you 
may bake them, but put them unboiled into the paste."

On pg 194, To Preserve Potatoes
"Boile your roots in faire water untill they bee somewhat tender then pill of 
the skinne, then make your syrupe, weying to every pound of roots a pound of 
sugar and a quarter of a pinte of faire water, & as much of rose water, & the 
iuice of three or fowre orenges, then boile the syrupe & scum it, then cut 
your roots in the middle & put them into the syrup, & boole them till they 
bee throughlie soaked in the syrupe, before you take it from the fire, put in 
a little musk and amber greece." 

In Service,

Ilaria


Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 20:27:21 -0500
From: harper at idt.net
Subject: Parsnips (was Re: SC - Sauce for Sausage?)

Jadwiga requested a recipe for parsnips, preferably buttered and 
spiced.  How about batter-fried and spiced?

There's a recipe in Scully's _The Neapolitan Recipe Collection_, 
which is 15th century Italian.  (The translation is his.)

170. Parsnips

Clean big ones well and remove the woody part in the middle, and 
boil them; when they are cooked, flour them and fry them in good 
oil -- but before that, dry them well on a small board; then, to make 
them better, get a bowl of flour tempered with water, add sugar,  
cinnamon, saffron and rosewater, coat the parsnips with this 
mixture and put them in the pan with hot oil; then put spices on top 
of them and serve them properly seasoned like that.

Lady Brighid ni Chiarain
Settmour Swamp, East (NJ)


Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 08:27:08 -0800
From: "E. Rain" <raghead at liripipe.com>
Subject: SC - RE: period parsnip recipes

I came across a recipe for Parsnips in Sent sovi last night.  Bearing in
mind that no only do I not read medieval catalan, I don't even read medieval
spanish here's what my various dictionaries and a good knowledge of medieval
cooking italian got me.

>From the Grewe edition of Sent Sovi  P. 139
To make Pasternakes with Almond Milk
Take white pasternakes and put to cook.  and when they are well cooked
remove them and put them in cold water, and [peel?] them.  And when they are
blanched put them in 2 platters with which do cheese.  And if it [troubles a
heart???] turn out [the one?].  and then press them, take a good martar and
pound them well, and put them to cook with much broth and with salt pork of
that which you like, and cook them in the way of courds.  And when they give
to be cooked take milk of almonds which was made with the mest broth you
have and mix it in.  And with it cheese deliver  have sliced,  and if you
want, it won't lack if you use sheeps milk instead of almonds.


Again, this is not a legit translation, [PLEASE do not use it for a dish &
then tell people it's period!] as you can see it has big holes in it and it
may have MAJOR errors, I was just trying to get an idea of whether or not it
was worth having translated properly by someone else :->

Eden - who will stick with Italian translation thank you just the same...
Eden Rain
raghead at liripipe.com


Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 08:25:13 -0800
From: Anne-Marie Rousseau <acrouss at gte.net>
Subject: Re: SC - buttered parsnips/period parsnip recipes

hey all from Anne-Marie
here is the Madrone Culinary Guilds version for Digby's (not medieval, but dang
tasty :)) parsnips. Some food weenies get freaked out becuase they REALLY look
like mashed potatoes but they REALLY dont taste like them :). Personally, I
love 'em.

all rights reserved, no publication without permission, enjoy! we're hoping to
include this in our Feudal Gourmet pamphlet on Elizabethan food (when it
migrates moer to the top of me pending projects pile). if you end up using it,
please let me know how it came out and how you liked it. Feedback is useful
:).

have fun!

- -AM
****************************************************************************

Dressed Parsnips
A very simple dish of parsnips and milk. They look suprisingly like mashed
potatoes, and have a very delicate, nutty flavor, not unlike squash or sweet
potatoes. They are exceedingly rich, and a little goes a long way. Digby is
right, they "have a natural Sweetness that is beyond Sugar, and will be
unctuous, so as not to need Butter".  The only drawback is that it takes a very
long time with constant stirring to get the parsnips to absorb all that milk,
but the time is worth it!

To Dress Parsnips
Scrape well three or four good large roots, cleaning well their outside, and
cutting off as much of the little end as is fibrous, and of the great end as is
hard. put them into a posnet or Pot with about a quart of milk upon them or as
much as will cover them in boiling; which do moderately, till you find they are
very tender. This may be in an hour and half, sooner or later, as the roots are
of a good kind. Then take them out and scrape all the outside into a pulp, like
the pulp of rosted Apples, which put in in a dish up on a Chafing -dish of
Coals, with a little of the ilk you boiled them in, put to them; not so much as
to drown them, but only to imbibe them: and then with stewing, the pulp will
imbibe all that Milk. When you see it is drunk in, put to the pulp a little
more of the same Milk, and stew that, till it be drunk in. Continue doing thus
till it hath drunk in a good quantity of the Milk, and is well swelled with it,
and will take in no more, which may be in a good half hour. Eat them so,
without Sugar or Butter; for they will have a natural Sweetness that is beyond
Sugar, and will be unctuous, so as not to need Butter.

Our Version: (Serves 10) 
2 lb parsnips 
6 cups milk 

Scrub the parsnips and take off the tough big end and the fibrous little end.
Remove any hairs if needed. Add milk to cover and simmer gently, stirring
occasionally. Cook until soft, about 1/2 hour or 45 minutes. Remove the milk,
and set aside for later. Let parsnips cool. Remove outer peel and fibrous core
by squishing with your hand and pulling out tough bits. Put parsnips back in
the pot, and mash. Add about 1/4 cup of the milk and stir vigorously over
medium-low heat until milk is all absorbed and the nips are the consistency of
mashed potatoes. Add 1/4 cup more milk and keep stirring until that is
absorbed. Pick out any fibrous bits that won't mash up nicely. Keep repeating
this till all the milk is gone, and the parsnips are an even glop, as wet as
scrambled eggs.  Dish up and serve warm.


Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 19:02:41 -0500
From: harper at idt.net
Subject: Re: SC - RE: period parsnip recipes

And it came to pass on 11 Dec 00, , that E. Rain wrote:
> I came across a recipe for Parsnips in Sent sovi last night.  Bearing in
> mind that no only do I not read medieval catalan, I don't even read medieval
> spanish here's what my various dictionaries and a good knowledge of medieval
> cooking italian got me.

Well, I have never studied Catalan (modern or medieval), but 
sometimes I can stumble through a recipe, with the help of a 
dictionary and knowledge of Spanish and French.  I *think* I can 
shed some light on the gaps in your very creditable translation.
 
> >From the Grewe edition of Sent Sovi  P. 139
> To make Pasternakes with Almond Milk
> Take white pasternakes and put to cook.  and when they are well cooked
> remove them and put them in cold water, and [peel?] them.  

It think it is "peel".  Literally, "parar" means "to prepare", but in 
Spanish, it is often used to mean "peel".

> And when they are
> blanched put them in 2 platters with which do cheese.  

Press them between 2 chopping-blocks (this instruction appears a 
*lot* in Nola, whenever moisture has to be squeezed out of a food) 
with which you make cheese.

> And if it [troubles a
> heart???] turn out [the one?].

I think this is an instruction to remove the woody core, if you find 
one.

>  and then press them, take a good martar and pound them well, and
> put them to cook with much broth and with salt pork of that which
> you like, and cook them in the way of courds.  And when they give
> to be cooked take milk of almonds which was made with the mest
> broth you have and mix it in.  And with it cheese deliver  have
> sliced,  

And put in cheese ___ sliced (and grated).

> and if you want, it won't lack if you use sheeps milk
> instead of almonds. 
> 
> Again, this is not a legit translation, [PLEASE do not use it for a dish &
> then tell people it's period!] as you can see it has big holes in it and it
> may have MAJOR errors, I was just trying to get an idea of whether or not it
> was worth having translated properly by someone else :->

You've got the essence of it, as far as I can tell.  The parsnips are 
parboiled, peeled and mashed, then cooked with mutton broth and 
bacon.  Add the end, add almond milk and grated cheese.  So... 
do we have a Catalan translator in the house?

> Eden - who will stick with Italian translation thank you just the same...

Lady Brighid ni Chiarain
Settmour Swamp, East (NJ)


Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 07:06:21 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Viking cookbook swedes and turnips

Hrolf Douglasson wrote:
>>""> Umm,  I have no idea if someone earlier has mentioned this.  But
>>swedes are turnips, usually the type that are white with purple bits.
>
> The white small things with purple tops are TURNIPS in the UK.
> Swedes are larger About the size of a cob loaf to the size of a football and
> are in no way related to potatos. They are a member of the mangle wurzel
> family and were introduced to the UK in the early middle ages.  After the
> normans but berfore the tudors.

Swedes are the yellow turnips known as turnips in _Scotland_, although
not in the rest of the UK, while commonly called either turnips/yellow
turnips or rutabaga in the U.S. (I believe it was an American who asked
about this).

Adamantius


From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
To: "'sca-cooks at ansteorra.org'" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] Viking cookbook
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 09:14:56 -0500

I'm curious as to the source which specifies the rutabaga as a 19th Century
hybrid.  An Oregon State University fact sheet provides the information that
the rutabaga is mentioned in Bauhin's Prodromus and Morrison's plant
catalog, both 17th Century publications.

The Bauhin reference is most probably Caspar (Gaspard) Bauhin's Pinax or
Theatri Botanici of 1623.

Bear

> > >b.) swedes
> >
> >       Swedes are rutabegas.  They were developed in Sweden in the
> > nineteenth century, and are related to turnips.  They are *definately
> > not* period for Vikings.


Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 21:08:12 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Compost: Black Radishes, Carrots
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> Daniel Myers wrote:
>> Pasternak can mean both carrot and parsnip - and as others have said,
>> they probably used whichever they had on hand.  I can usually get
>> parsnips here, so I usually use both (adds variety).
>
> I believe you both, this is what i have heard. But where does this
> information come from? Where does it say so explicitly?
>
> Anahita

Try Pliny, "There is one kind of wild pastinaca which grows spontaneously;
by the Greeks it is known as staphylinos.  Another kind is grown either from
the root transplanted or else from seed, the ground being dug to a very
considerable depth for the purpose. It begins to be fit for eating at the
end of the year, but it is still better at the end of two; even then,
however, it preserves its strong pungent flavour, which it is found
impossible to get rid of."

Athenaeus, and possibly Apicius, if De Re Coquinaria truly is Apicius' work,
first used carota to describe the carrot. To Athenaeus, parsnips and carrots
were the same vegetable, while one of Apicius' recipes is for Caroetas et
Pastinacae, providing a differentiation between the two vegetables.  In the
2nd Century, Galen established the differentiation between the parsnip and
the carrot by naming the carrot Daucus pastinaca.

European carrots were white until about the 13th Century and red and yellow
carrots were only introduced into England by Flemish refugees in the 14th
Century.  So for the Forme of Cury, pasternak might mean either the white
carrot or the parsnip.

Bear


Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 14:06:56 -0500
From: Gretchen Beck <grm at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Radishes
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

--On Thursday, November 22, 2007 12:19 PM -0600 Michael Gunter
<countgunthar at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Radishes spread with butter and a sprinkle of salt is a traditional
> bar food in France and the continent.
>
> I keep meaning to try it. Sounds great to me.
> I wonder if I can find any period reference....but I would think that was
> very commoner food and never mentioned. I'd love to serve them in a
> tavern or inn one of these days.

I like radish sandwiches with dark rye bread, butter, and salt.

Platina mentions just plain radishes as going will in the third "close the
stomach" course. Since he doesn't say anything about preparation (that I
can recall), I assume he means raw. Raw certainly fits with the other
things in the third course.

toodles, margaret


Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 18:10:32 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Radishes
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

There are recipes that mention ground radishes.

  From the FoC--
XXXII - For To Make A Pynade Or Pyvade. Take Hony and Rotys of Radich
and grynd yt smal in a morter and do yt thereto that hony a quantite of
broun sugur and do thereto. Tak Powder of Peper and Safroun and Almandys
and do al togedere boyl hem long and hold yt in a wet bord and let yt
kele and messe yt and do yt forth.

Johnnae
> --On Thursday, November 22, 2007 12:19 PM -0600 Michael Gunter
> <countgunthar at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Radishes spread with butter and a sprinkle of salt is a traditional
>> bar food in France and the continent.
>>
>> I keep meaning to try it. Sounds great to me.
>> I wonder if I can find any period reference....but I would think that was
>> very commoner food and never mentioned. I'd love to serve them in a
>> tavern or inn one of these days.
>
> I like radish sandwiches with dark rye bread, butter, and salt.
> Platina mentions just plain radishes as going will in the third "close the
> stomach" course. Since he doesn't say anything about preparation (that I
> can recall), I assume he means raw. Raw certainly fits with the other
> things in the third course.
> toodles, margaret


Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 15:41:22 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] New World Foods / potato in Rumpolt?
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

The recipe is for Erdapfel, which modernly refers to the white potato,
Solanum tuberosum.  At the time Rumpolt was writing, Erdapfel very probably
was being used to refer to a round gourd, squash or melon.  Thomas Gloning
pointed me toward some of the reference to this particular linguistic usage,
but I haven't chased down the complete discussion of the usage.

There is definitely a recipe for potatoes in correspondence between Wilhelm
IV von Hessen and Christian I von Sachsen in 1591.  As translated by Thomas
Gloning, it reads, "We also send to your Highness among other things a plant
that we got from Italy some years ago, called Taratouphli (.) Below, at the
root, there hand many tubers. If they are cooked these tubers are very good
to eat. But you must first boil them in water, so that the outer shell
(peeling?) gets off, then pour the cooking water away, and cook them to the
point in butter."

While people experimented with white potatoes in the late 16th Century, they
are likely specimens from various botanical gardens.  John Gerard recieved
his first specimen in 1586 from undetermined sources (possibly Francis
Drake's raid on Cartegena).  Carolus Clusius got his in 1587 from Italy via
the Pontifical Legation in Belgium.  Rumpolt may have access to potatoes
through the Hapsburg botanical gardens in Vienna, but there were certainly
no potatoes there when Clusius was in charge of the garden.

I think it can be safely argued that any recipe before 1590 is probably not
for white potatoes.  And the evidence tends to show that general acceptance
and use was over a century later.

Bear

> David Malddon / Eduardo:
>> For potatoes you might want to consider referencing
>> Marx Rumpolt's book "Ein neu Kochbuch" 1581
>> where there is a potato pottage/soup/creamy stew recipe.
>
> I don't think there is a potato recipe in Rumpolt. I have read it several
> times on the internet, that there is a potato recipe in Rumpolt, but I
> haven't found such a recipe. Could you point me to the place?
>
> E.


Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 20:42:49 -0400
From: ranvaig at columbus.rr.com
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] New World Foods / potato in Rumpolt?
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

> David Malddon / Eduardo:
>> For potatoes you might want to consider referencing
>> Marx Rumpolt's book "Ein neu Kochbuch" 1581
>> where there is a potato pottage/soup/creamy stew recipe.
> I don't think there is a potato recipe in Rumpolt. I have read it several
> times on the internet, that there is a potato recipe in Rumpolt,  
> but I haven't found such a recipe. Could you point me to the place?

http://aeiou.iicm.tugraz.at/aeiou.encyclop.e/ 
e712473.htm;internal&action=_setlanguage.action?LANGUAGE=en
Two potato tubers were sent to C. Clusius as a curiosity for the  
Vienna Botanical Gardens in 1588.

In modern Austria "Erdapfel" or "earth apple" means potato.  Rumpolt  
has an "erdtepffel" recipe #37 in the "Zugemu?" section, in between  
pear and apple recipes.   No one is certain what fruit or vegetable  
is meant, but it probably does not mean white potato.

Very similar to recipes given for apples. It could be like  
applesauce, or like mashed potatoes, but is not a soup recipe.

The recipe is a little obscure.. press the stuff thru a hair cloth  
and THEN cut to pieces and fry in bacon?

http://clem.mscd.edu/~grasse/GK_veggie1.htm

37. Earth apples. Peel and cut them small/ soak (simmer) them in water/ and
press it well out through a hair (fine) cloth/ chop them small/ and fry them in bacon/ that is cut small/ take a little milk thereunder/ and let it simmer  
therewith/ so it is good and welltasting.

Gwen Cat comments that it might be a patty pan squash.  I think an  
Old world gourd is more likely than an New World squash, or something  
else altogether, but I haven't seen anything convincing one way or  
another.

Ranvaig


Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 15:41:22 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] New World Foods / potato in Rumpolt?
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

The recipe is for Erdapfel, which modernly refers to the white potato,
Solanum tuberosum.  At the time Rumpolt was writing, Erdapfel very probably
was being used to refer to a round gourd, squash or melon.  Thomas Gloning
pointed me toward some of the reference to this particular linguistic usage,
but I haven't chased down the complete discussion of the usage.

There is definitely a recipe for potatoes in correspondence between Wilhelm
IV von Hessen and Christian I von Sachsen in 1591.  As translated by Thomas
Gloning, it reads, "We also send to your Highness among other things a plant
that we got from Italy some years ago, called Taratouphli (.) Below, at the
root, there hand many tubers. If they are cooked these tubers are very good
to eat. But you must first boil them in water, so that the outer shell
(peeling?) gets off, then pour the cooking water away, and cook them to the
point in butter."

While people experimented with white potatoes in the late 16th Century, they
are likely specimens from various botanical gardens.  John Gerard recieved
his first specimen in 1586 from undetermined sources (possibly Francis
Drake's raid on Cartegena).  Carolus Clusius got his in 1587 from Italy via
the Pontifical Legation in Belgium.  Rumpolt may have access to potatoes
through the Hapsburg botanical gardens in Vienna, but there were certainly
no potatoes there when Clusius was in charge of the garden.

I think it can be safely argued that any recipe before 1590 is probably not
for white potatoes.  And the evidence tends to show that general acceptance
and use was over a century later.

Bear

> David Malddon / Eduardo:
>> For potatoes you might want to consider referencing
>> Marx Rumpolt's book "Ein neu Kochbuch" 1581
>> where there is a potato pottage/soup/creamy stew recipe.
>
> I don't think there is a potato recipe in Rumpolt. I have read it several
> times on the internet, that there is a potato recipe in Rumpolt, but I
> haven't found such a recipe. Could you point me to the place?
>
> E.


Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 20:42:49 -0400
From: ranvaig at columbus.rr.com
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] New World Foods / potato in Rumpolt?
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

> David Malddon / Eduardo:
>> For potatoes you might want to consider referencing
>> Marx Rumpolt's book "Ein neu Kochbuch" 1581
>> where there is a potato pottage/soup/creamy stew recipe.
> I don't think there is a potato recipe in Rumpolt. I have read it several
> times on the internet, that there is a potato recipe in Rumpolt,  
> but I haven't found such a recipe. Could you point me to the place?

http://aeiou.iicm.tugraz.at/aeiou.encyclop.e/ 
e712473.htm;internal&action=_setlanguage.action?LANGUAGE=en
Two potato tubers were sent to C. Clusius as a curiosity for the  
Vienna Botanical Gardens in 1588.

In modern Austria "Erdapfel" or "earth apple" means potato.  Rumpolt  
has an "erdtepffel" recipe #37 in the "Zugemu?" section, in between  
pear and apple recipes.   No one is certain what fruit or vegetable  
is meant, but it probably does not mean white potato.

Very similar to recipes given for apples. It could be like  
applesauce, or like mashed potatoes, but is not a soup recipe.

The recipe is a little obscure.. press the stuff thru a hair cloth  
and THEN cut to pieces and fry in bacon?

http://clem.mscd.edu/~grasse/GK_veggie1.htm

37. Earth apples. Peel and cut them small/ soak (simmer) them in water/ and
press it well out through a hair (fine) cloth/ chop them small/ and fry them in bacon/ that is cut small/ take a little milk thereunder/ and let it simmer  
therewith/ so it is good and welltasting.

Gwen Cat comments that it might be a patty pan squash.  I think an  
Old world gourd is more likely than an New World squash, or something  
else altogether, but I haven't seen anything convincing one way or  
another.

Ranvaig


Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 01:30:10 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] New World Foods / potato in Rumpolt?
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

I have seen one reference (by a German linguist) where "erdapfel" is
directly related to "pepomellone" (hope I spelled that right) in Platina.
That would relate "erdapfel" to globular gourds or melons.  The location in
Rumpolt suggests that this might be a melon.

By Clusius's own statement, he received the potatoes in 1587 and a drawing
in 1588.  To quote his herbal of 1601,
"I received the first authentic information about this plant from Phillipus
de Sivry, Dn. De Walhain and the Prefect of the City of Mons in Hannonia, of
the Belgians, who sent two tuber of it, with its fruit, to me in Vienna,
Austria, at the beginning of the year 1587; and in the following year, a
drawing of the branch with a flower. He wrote that he had received it the
preceding year from a certain employee of the Pontifical Legation in
Belgium. "

Bear


Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 02:34:24 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] New World Foods / potato in Rumpolt?
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

I believe that should be Dauphin (or possibly, Dauphine, the wife).

I have no problem with the Dauphin eating potatoes prepared in the manner of
truffles, but I would really like to know which Dauphin and I would like to
know how he had his truffles prepared.

The guy in England is probably John Gerard.  He received his potatoes in
1586.  Carolus Clusius received his samples in 1587.  The earliest record of
potatoes in use in Europe (as poverty fare) is 1573 in Spain (where they may
have been imported from the New World), but they were likely not in major
cultivation for they don't show up in Clusius's study of the plants of Spain
in 1576.  To my knowledge, leaving aside the questionable recipe in Rumpolt,
all reports of eating white potatoes are after 1590.

The idea that they regularly eaten in Germany is probably from Clusius's
herbal, "The Italians do not know where they were first produced.  Certain it
is, however, that they were obtained either from Spain or from  America. It
is a great wonder to me that, when it was so common and frequent in the
Italian settlements (so they say), that they feast upon these tubers, cooked
with the flesh of mutton, in the same manner as upon turnips and carrots,
they give themselves the advantage of such nourishment, and allow news of
the plant to reach us in such an off-hand way. Now, indeed, in many gardens
in Germany it is quite common because it is very fruitful."

Note that this was published in 1601 and does not give a clear indication of
when they became common in Germany.  The evidence suggests that white
potatoes were not in general use or cultivation in Europe for most of the
16th Century.  If the botanical specimens didn't reach Central Europe until
the mid-1580s, I seriously doubt that they were in common use at that  
time.

Based on the evidence, I think one can say that in general, potatoes were
not eaten in Europe and that they weren't common in Germany much before
1590.  Italy is a slightly different matter, but I don't think you can place
potatoes (as botanical to the Vatican) before 1547.  I would think 40 to 50
years to move them from Rome north to Southern Germany would be about right.
One needs to consider temporal as well as spacial precision.

I would like to see a copy of this paper.

Bear

> I have read a research paper showing that the Daphne of France ate Potatoes
> prepared just like Truffles and in Germany they were eaten regularly.  But
> in England only one guy had them in his hothouse and they were considered
> odd.. all of this is in the 16th century.  My point being to say in general
> a food was not eaten in our time period is a misnomer and should be
> carefully researched for differences in regional preferences.
>
> Jana


Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 01:30:10 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] New World Foods / potato in Rumpolt?
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

I have seen one reference (by a German linguist) where "erdapfel" is
directly related to "pepomellone" (hope I spelled that right) in Platina.
That would relate "erdapfel" to globular gourds or melons.  The location in
Rumpolt suggests that this might be a melon.

By Clusius's own statement, he received the potatoes in 1587 and a drawing
in 1588.  To quote his herbal of 1601,
"I received the first authentic information about this plant from Phillipus
de Sivry, Dn. De Walhain and the Prefect of the City of Mons in Hannonia, of
the Belgians, who sent two tuber of it, with its fruit, to me in Vienna,
Austria, at the beginning of the year 1587; and in the following year, a
drawing of the branch with a flower. He wrote that he had received it the
preceding year from a certain employee of the Pontifical Legation in
Belgium. "

Bear


Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 02:34:24 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] New World Foods / potato in Rumpolt?
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

I believe that should be Dauphin (or possibly, Dauphine, the wife).

I have no problem with the Dauphin eating potatoes prepared in the manner of
truffles, but I would really like to know which Dauphin and I would like to
know how he had his truffles prepared.

The guy in England is probably John Gerard.  He received his potatoes in
1586.  Carolus Clusius received his samples in 1587.  The earliest record of
potatoes in use in Europe (as poverty fare) is 1573 in Spain (where they may
have been imported from the New World), but they were likely not in major
cultivation for they don't show up in Clusius's study of the plants of Spain
in 1576.  To my knowledge, leaving aside the questionable recipe in Rumpolt,
all reports of eating white potatoes are after 1590.

The idea that they regularly eaten in Germany is probably from Clusius's
herbal, "The Italians do not know where they were first produced.  Certain it
is, however, that they were obtained either from Spain or from  America. It
is a great wonder to me that, when it was so common and frequent in the
Italian settlements (so they say), that they feast upon these tubers, cooked
with the flesh of mutton, in the same manner as upon turnips and carrots,
they give themselves the advantage of such nourishment, and allow news of
the plant to reach us in such an off-hand way. Now, indeed, in many gardens
in Germany it is quite common because it is very fruitful."

Note that this was published in 1601 and does not give a clear indication of
when they became common in Germany.  The evidence suggests that white
potatoes were not in general use or cultivation in Europe for most of the
16th Century.  If the botanical specimens didn't reach Central Europe until
the mid-1580s, I seriously doubt that they were in common use at that  
time.

Based on the evidence, I think one can say that in general, potatoes were
not eaten in Europe and that they weren't common in Germany much before
1590.  Italy is a slightly different matter, but I don't think you can place
potatoes (as botanical to the Vatican) before 1547.  I would think 40 to 50
years to move them from Rome north to Southern Germany would be about right.
One needs to consider temporal as well as spacial precision.

I would like to see a copy of this paper.

Bear

> I have read a research paper showing that the Daphne of France ate Potatoes
> prepared just like Truffles and in Germany they were eaten regularly.  But
> in England only one guy had them in his hothouse and they were considered
> odd.. all of this is in the 16th century.  My point being to say in general
> a food was not eaten in our time period is a misnomer and should be
> carefully researched for differences in regional preferences.
>
> Jana


Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 11:49:06 -0700
From: David Friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Substitute for Potatoes?

On Aug 23, 2009, at 11:13 PM, Solveig Throndardottir wrote:
<<< Greetings from Solveig! Potatoes are from Peru. However, there are 
a number of old world tubers available such as yams Dioscorea 
species which originated in West Africa and Asia.

Solveig Throndardottir
Amateur Scholar

Yes, and I fully intend to use yams in my Period cooking. >>>

Off hand, I can't think of any recipes in either the period European 
or Islamic corpus that use them. I don't even know if there is any 
evidence that they were used in the  parts of the world from which we 
have surviving cookbooks.

You might want to check the Rehla of Ibn Battuta for references--he 
visited both east and west Africa in the 14th century.
-- 
David/Cariadoc
www.daviddfriedman.com


Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:40:38 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Yams was Substitute for Potatoes?

<<< Off hand, I can't think of any recipes in either the period European or Islamic corpus that use them. I don't even know if there is any evidence that they were used in the  parts of the world from which we have surviving cookbooks.

You might want to check the Rehla of Ibn Battuta for references--he visited both east and west Africa in the 14th century.
-- 
David/Cariadoc >>>

Columbus's journal of the first voyage (1492-93) references yams several 
times, but I see no evidence of yams being prepared in Europe.  I don't 
recall any references in Pliny or other authors that would suggest yams were 
well known in Antiquity.  Since the term, yam, appears to be derived from a 
West African language, it's likely that yams came to the attention of Europe 
as the Portuguese expanded along the West African coast and probably were 
not incorporated into the European diet.

I suspect, but have not verified, that edible yams may not grow well in 
Europe.

Bear 


Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:52:05 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Yams was Substitute for Potatoes?

Terry Decker wrote:
<<< Columbus's journal of the first voyage (1492-93) references yams 
several times, but I see no evidence of yams being prepared in 
Europe.  I don't recall any references in Pliny or other authors that 
would suggest yams were well known in Antiquity.  Since the term, yam, 
appears to be derived from a West African language, it's likely that 
yams came to the attention of Europe as the Portuguese expanded along 
the West African coast and probably were not incorporated into the 
European diet.
I suspect, but have not verified, that edible yams may not grow well 
in Europe.
Bear >>>

Yams do show up in West African Food in the Middle Ages by Lewicki. (nw 
edition CUP, 2009).
And one of the sources given is Ibn Battuta who ate them in Mali. See 
pages 49-52.

Johnnae


Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 13:14:11 -0700
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Substitute for Potatoes?

Judith wrote:
On Aug 23, 2009, at 11:13 PM, Solveig Throndardottir wrote:
<<< Greetings from Solveig! Potatoes are from Peru. However, there are a
number of old world tubers available such as yams Dioscorea species
which originated in West Africa and Asia. >>>

Yes, and I fully intend to use yams in my Period cooking.
------------

Well, that depends on what you mean by yams...

Anyway, in the US there's a tuber called "yam" that isn't. It is a 
variety of sweet potato. I get them confused, one has brownish skin 
and a yellow interior (i think that's what gets commonly called a yam 
in the US) and the other has purplish skin and an orange interior. 
The one with the yellow flesh is starchier than the orange, but 
they're both New World, known in England and Spain in the 16th c., 
but i'm not sure if they were known anywhere else. Anyway, both are 
Ipomoea batatas, NOT really yams.

The *true* yam is African - our word comes from Spanish nyame', which 
in turn is derived from the original Wolof word. It is a starchy 
tuber not in the slightest like the sweet potato and its close 
sibling the not really "yam". These are in the genus Dioscorea. They 
are often being quite white inside - or pink or purple, as is the 
Filipino ube' - i used to get ube ice cream when i lived in LA - and 
they can be up to 7 feet long and weigh up to 150 pounds! African 
yams apparently were not known in Europe until the 16th c. and were 
not traded with or grown in North African or Southwest Asian Muslim 
countries, as far as i can tell.

I ate several different varieties of Dioscorea, white or 
greyish-white tubers called "ubi", when i lived in Indonesia.

The New World tuber cassava, often known as yucca or manioc (Manihot 
esculenta) is also eaten in Indonesia, where the leaves were called 
singkong and the root was called ubi kayu. But it wouldn't be known 
in the SCA-period Near or Middle East.

On the other hand, Colocasia shows up in quite a few SCA period 
Arabic language cookbooks, where they may be called qulqas or kilkas. 
It is often known as taro, a starchy tuber, but does not add the 
qualities of a modern potato to a dish. I can get them here in the SF 
Bay area and have used them a number of times in medieval Arabic 
recipes. Colocasia esculenta are also eaten in Indonesia.

Several of these tubers often eaten first cooked, cut longwise into 
halves or quarters, then rubbed with ragi (a type of dried yeast 
often mixed with some spices), and left to ferment - which often 
takes only a few hours in hot and humid Java. They are then cut up 
into large cubes and eaten as snacks after the afternoon nap before 
dinner.

Another way to eat starchy tubers in Indonesia is to cook them in 
coconut milk with sugar and eaten as a sweet. Sweets are not 
generally eaten with/after meals, so unlike our desserts. Rather they 
are eaten at snack time - there are several in a day, most especially 
in the afternoon after the nap and before dinner, and again several 
hours after dinner, often quite late. These are purchased from 
street-vendors with mobile pushcarts. Few people eat a lot at meals - 
often because they can't afford much - and it is also very hot and 
humid, so it makes sense to eat lightly multiple times during the day.

Anyway, i digress... back to SCA-period Near and Middle Eastern 
starchy tubers...

Colocasia is the most likely starchy tuber for your persona, Judith, 
if you place her anywhere from al-Andalus to Mesopotamia (and that's 
a BIG distance). I do not know if they were grown and/or eaten in 
Persia, Transoxania (aka Transoxiana), or other parts of Central 
Asia. Anyone?
-- 
Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
the persona formerly known as Anahita


Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 17:31:02 -0700
From: Ian Kusz <sprucebranch at gmail.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Definition of "Period Cooking" was Re:
	Substitute	for Potatoes?

As far as I can tell, the use of cattail roots (rhizomes) as a food (the
core, after peeling off the woody outer shell), only dates back to Europeans
coming to America (unless you're doing Native American cooking, in which
case you're looking thousands of years B.C.).  Despite the fact that some
cattails (notably, the Dwarf Cattail) are native to Eurasia, I can't find
any record of period usage.  I have read a source that Russians consider the
young, peeled shoots a delicacy, and, of course, both the inner flower and
the pollen are edible, but I can't find period documentation.   Except for
use as a building/crafting material.

anyone else find this?  You can supposedly mash them, fry them, boil them,
bake them, cook and dry them and use them for flour, any number of
usages....including substituting them for potatoes.   Apparently, they're
quite tasty, but not completely potato-like.  One author stated he preferred
cattails, however.
-- 
Ian of Oertha


Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 17:31:02 -0700
From: Ian Kusz <sprucebranch at gmail.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Definition of "Period Cooking" was Re:
	Substitute	for Potatoes?

As far as I can tell, the use of cattail roots (rhizomes) as a food (the
core, after peeling off the woody outer shell), only dates back to Europeans
coming to America (unless you're doing Native American cooking, in which
case you're looking thousands of years B.C.).  Despite the fact that some
cattails (notably, the Dwarf Cattail) are native to Eurasia, I can't find
any record of period usage.  I have read a source that Russians consider the
young, peeled shoots a delicacy, and, of course, both the inner flower and
the pollen are edible, but I can't find period documentation.   Except for
use as a building/crafting material.

anyone else find this?  You can supposedly mash them, fry them, boil them,
bake them, cook and dry them and use them for flour, any number of
usages....including substituting them for potatoes.   Apparently, they're
quite tasty, but not completely potato-like.  One author stated he preferred
cattails, however.
-- 
Ian of Oertha


Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 13:25:31 -0400
From: Sharon Palmer <ranvaig at columbus.rr.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Definition of "Period Cooking" was Re:
	Substitute for Potatoes?

I can't speak to period use, but 30 years ago I took a class on 
foraging wild foods.  My hazy memories that cattails shoots were 
bland but edible, and probably didn't have a lot of calories.  The 
teacher compared them to palm shoots.  I'm afraid I don't remember 
what the cattail rhizomes were like, although I think we ate them too.

Ranvaig


Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 05:20:40 -0400
From: Sharon Palmer <ranvaig at columbus.rr.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Cattails (was Re: Definition of "Period Cooking"
	was Re: Substitute for Potatoes?)

Searching for cattail, I found that they are called reedmace in 
England and and the shoots called "Cossack's Aspargus".  These aren't 
period references, but gives something else to search for.

Ranvaig


Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 08:35:26 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Cattails

Cattails are also known as bulrush, reed-mace, cat-o'nine tails,  
cossack asparagus, marsh beetle, and candlewick.

John Gerard includes bulrushes and says that the seeds  are used  to  
provoke sleep with a warning that they can provoke a "dead sleepe."   
They are also used for menstrual problem.

To take away VVarts from the face or Hands.

Take Purslain, and rub it on the warts, and it maketh them fall away:  
Also the juice of the Roots of Rushes applyed, heal|eth them.
The Accomplish'd lady's delight in preserving, 1675

Richard Mabey doesn't indicate that they are eaten in England, but I  
wonder if they were possibly eaten during famine times.

This might not have been recorded or mentioned in some way in the  
multitude of references to rushes or reeds.

See also
http://www.plantpress.com/wildlife/o1134-bulrush.php

Johnnae


Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 04:36:34 -0700
From: Ian Kusz <sprucebranch at gmail.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Cattails

Yeah, I've encountered this, too, although the bulrush, proper, is another
species of plant, in parts of Southern America, some cattails are called
bulrushes, too.

Very confusing.

Btw, proper bulrushes: Scirpus genus, but cattails Typha. Still, people call
them different, so I'm not sure if searches are going to be
definitive....oh, well

On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 5:35 AM, Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com> wrote:
<<< Cattails are also known as bulrush, reed-mace, cat-o'nine tails, cossack
asparagus, marsh beetle, and candlewick.

John Gerard includes bulrushes and says that the seeds  are used  to
provoke sleep with a warning that they can provoke a "dead sleepe."  They
are also used for menstrual problem.

Johnnae >>>
-- 
Ian of Oertha


Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 16:52:51 -0600
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Another question on peas

A cookbook I've been seeking for a long time.  If you have a complete copy, 
perhaps you could solve a problem I have when you have time.

About 20 years ago, I obtained a copy of Esther B. Aresty's The Delectable 
Past.  Aresty commnets that Wecker's work contains a recipe that "bore a 
close resembelance to R?sti".  She then procedes to provide a modern recipe 
for R?sti.  R?sti is a dish using Solanum tuberosum, the white or Irish 
potato, which, at the time Wecker was published, was just entering Northern 
Europe as botanical specimens.  If Wecker has a recipe for potatoes 
(Kartoffel, Taratouphli, Erdapfel, etc.) then it suggests that potatoes may 
have been more widespread than the records suggest.  If you come across such 
a recipe, please post it to the list, I and some others would certainly be 
interested in seeing it.

Many thanks.

Bear

----- Original Message ----- 

Ein K?stlich neu Kochbuch (1598) by Anna Wecker (or Weckerin) - which is
apparently the first printed cookbook with a woman author (the earlier
women's cookbooks are manuscripts).  She was the wife of a physician and
in the court of Pflazgraf of Rheinland - I suspect she was quite learned
and am peripherally interested in identifying her source of knowledge for
her medical advice, but primarily focused on the food and recipes at this
point.  I am only a few months into the project and trying to develop the
specialized vocabulary.  So far the recipe amounts are mostly single dish,
and is written in a type of grandmotherly stream-of-consciousness sort of
way.  So far I have done the table of contents of part 1 and 2, have been
excited about fritters, funnel cakes, proto-baumkuchen and quark.  Current
work is to identify, number and more or less name each recipe.

The baumkuchen queries based on an instruction for "heidenische teig" took
me on a road that led me to read Ryff's section on grains and beans.  And
thus, I want to know more!  I'm trying to sort out in my mind the
different type of grains used in baking for one, along with some of the
words being regionally specific and subject to variant spelling.  In my
head I told myself I needed to go back and get a grounding in the basics
to help this attempt at understanding the nature of the ingredients.  It
has been a great deal of fun.

I've been blogging about it here:

http://jillwheezul.livejournal.com/tag/weckerin
http://jillwheezul.livejournal.com/tag/baumkuchen

Katrine


Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 15:30:14 -0800 (PST)
From: wheezul at canby.com
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Another question on peas

It's available on line here:

Wecker, Anna:
Ein K?stlich new Kochbuch Von allerhand Speisen, an Gem?sen, Obs, Fleisch,
Gefl?gel, Wildpret, Fischen und Gebachens Nit allein vor Gesunde: sondern
auch und f?rnemlich vor Krancke, in allerley Kranckheiten und Gebr?sten
... / Mit flei? beschrieben durch F. Anna Weckerin, Weyland Herrn D.
Johann Jacob Weckers, des ber?mbten Medici, seligen, nachgelassene Wittib.
- Amberg, 1598
Signatur: Res/Oecon. 2174 b
[2008-10-15]
URN: urn:nbn:de:bvb:12-bsb00028737-3

<<< A cookbook I've been seeking for a long time.  If you have a complete
copy, perhaps you could solve a problem I have when you have time.

About 20 years ago, I obtained a copy of Esther B. Aresty's The Delectable
Past.  Aresty commnets that Wecker's work contains a recipe that "bore a
close resembelance to R?sti".  She then procedes to provide a modern recipe
for R?sti.  R?sti is a dish using Solanum tuberosum, the white or Irish
potato, which, at the time Wecker was published, was just entering Northern
Europe as botanical specimens.  If Wecker has a recipe for potatoes
(Kartoffel, Taratouphli, Erdapfel, etc.) then it suggests that potatoes may
have been more widespread than the records suggest.  If you come across such
a recipe, please post it to the list, I and some others would certainly be
interested in seeing it.

Many thanks. >>>

It's available on line here:

http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/ausgaben/uni_ausgabe.html?recherche=ja&projekt=1174066449&autor=Wecker%2C+Anna&titel=&sortjahr=

The details:

Wecker, Anna:
Ein K?stlich new Kochbuch Von allerhand Speisen, an Gem?sen, Obs, Fleisch,
Gefl?gel, Wildpret, Fischen und Gebachens Nit allein vor Gesunde: sondern
auch und f?rnemlich vor Krancke, in allerley Kranckheiten und Gebr?sten
... / Mit flei? beschrieben durch F. Anna Weckerin, Weyland Herrn D.
Johann Jacob Weckers, des ber?mbten Medici, seligen, nachgelassene Wittib.
- Amberg, 1598
Signatur: Res/Oecon. 2174 b
[2008-10-15]
URN: urn:nbn:de:bvb:12-bsb00028737-3

For those not familiar with this site needing instructions:  Search for
Wecker, Anna as author if the info above doesn't come up.  Click on the
URN in the description and there will be a pdf download link in the upper
right.  When the menu comes up click 'ja' and then the Weiter button.

There are other cookbooks and texts there.  The Bavarian State Library is
a treasure trove.

I'll look and see what I can find for the similarity to R?sti if you don't
get there first.  Of course I was looking for an elusive potato recipe
(what good German wouldn't??) but there are parts I have only just briefly
scanned so far.

Katrine


Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2014 11:55:49 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Parsnips

Just an additional note on the subject. I checked EEBO-TCP this am. The full text section has over 47,000 items now.
From Langham, William. The garden of health conteyning the sundry rare and hidden vertues and properties of all kindes of simples and plants? 1579.
Parsnips.

PArsnips: the rootes sodden tender and eaten, cause vrine, and are good against melancholly.

2 The garden Parsnip eaten with meate, ingendreth good blood, and the wilde Parsnip eaten of women, moueth termes.

3 The roote hangd about the necke, helpeth the swelling of the throte, & no venemous thing shall hurt him that carrieth it about him.

4 The seede drunke with wine and also applied to the Matrixe, prouoketh termes, and helpeth the straitnesse of making water, the paine of the side called thepleurisy

5 The roote applyed plasterwise, helpeth venemous bitings or stingings.

6 The roote sodden & eaten, prouoketh vrin & venery.

7 The leaues stampt with hony and applied, doth clense and heale vlcers that eate greatly into the flesh.

8 The herbe with the root shreaded & distilled about the ende of March, and the water drunke three ounces morne & euen, and the palsie members also anoynted therewith or bathed, helpeth their shaking.

9 The roots eaten in meates, yeeld better nourishment then Carrots.

10 The water drunke euery night sixe ounces, prouoketh venery and sperme in man, & helpeth the straitnesse in making of water: milke to cause, vse the roote or seedes.

11 The roote prouoketh vrine, swageth paine of the side, expelleth winde of the belly, and is good for them that be bruised.

12 The roots eaten, are good for the lungs, breast and reines.

13 The seed of the wilde Parsnip is good against all poyson, it healeth all venemous bitings & stingings being drunke in wine, and is so excellent good for this purpose, that when stags or rather wilde Harts haue eaten of it, no venemous beasts may hurt them.

15 The seede of wilde Parsnips drunke, prouoketh 
termes and vrine, helpe the dropsie, resist poison and all venemous bitings, and helpe conception.

15 This herbe applyed into the Matrixe by a skilfull Midwife stampt, draweth foorth the dead childe.

16 And stampt with Hony, it cureth spreadingulcers.

17 Those of the garden are more apt to meate then the wilde.

18 Teeth ache and wormes, rub them with the roote.

19 Matrixe suffocat. drinke the seedes in wine.

20 Milke to increase, seeth the rootes with Fennell rootes in chicken broth, and eate it with a little fresh butter. 21 Loynes paine, drinke the seeds.

22 Swellings of womens bellies as if they were with childe, drinke one ounce of the seedes morne andeven.

23 Parsnips ingender thicke blood and naturall seed being much vsed, and therefore are good for them that haue bene long sicke, and they may bee eaten raw or sodden against melancholly humors, either greene or drie.

24 To prouoke lust and helpe digestion, boyle the roots first in water and slice them, and seeth them againe in fresh water, and put thereto clarified Honie, and boyle them to the thickenesse of Hony, and in the ende, put thereto Almonds if you haue them, and then put thereto Ginger, Galingale, and a little Pepper and Nutmegs, and other sweete sauouring spices, and vse it, or seeth them soft, and cut them small, and seethe them againe in Hony, some streine them and seethe them in water and Hony together, and stirre them well, that they cleaue not to the vessell, and in the midst of the seething, put Almonds in powder, and then Ginger, Nut?megs & Cinomom ana i. ounce, it moueth lust & helpeth digestion.


I also found this late 1674 recipe from A supplement to The queen-like closet, or, A little of everything presented to all ingenious ladies, and gentlewomen by Woolley, Hannah, 
To stew Parsnips: A good Dish.

Boil the tenderest Parsnips very well, then scrape them very clean, and cut them in two, and then slit them in half; put them in a Dish vvith some White vvine, vvhole Mace, grated Nutmeg, and a little 
Salt; vvhen they have stewed close co?vered one hour, then put in some pieces of Marrow, and a little Sugar; then stew them very vvell, and a little before you take them up, put in a little Butter, and shake them vvell together, and serve them in. Garnish your Dish vvith thin slices of boiled Parsnip, and fine Sugar beaten and searched.

But even here we see sugar is added.

Johnnae


From the fb "SCA Cooks" group:

Elizabeth Newton shared a link.
9/13/17 at 2:05am
Just double checking here, but while I have been reading the English tttranslation of The Science of Cooking written by the prince of Transylvania's court master chef at the end of the 16th century, found at www.medievalcookery.com I noticed quite a few of the recipes call for parsley root. This is the actual root of the herb, right? I've got a patch of parsley growing outside in my yard, but I have never considered digging up the root to cook into a dish.

Randy 'Renart' Wagner 
Petroselinum crispum, parsley root, is the root of the herb. For what little I know it resembles a parsnip and has the flavour between a carrot and possiblt lovage (celery). Hope this helps. This is from dutch parsley, not from the curly-leafed variety we grow normally today.
9/13/17 at 2:27am · Edited
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Galefridus Peregrinus
Galefridus Peregrinus Around where where I live, it's fairly easy to find in the produce section of most groceries. A bit seasonal, though.
9/13/17 at 4:58am

Angee Steir It could be substituted with parsnips fairly easy if you can't find it. I for one think such substitutions are fine and often times necessary with medieval recipes due to the difference in what is readily available compared to then.
9/13/17

Jana Lincoln Hill 
Hamburg rooted parsley. http://www.rareseeds.com/parsley-hamburg-rooted/

Daniel Myers 
The ones I've seen at the local (slightly upscale) grocery look like little, white carrots. They have a bit more flavor than a carrot and a little bit of a bite to them, but no where near as strong as a radish.
9/13/17 at 9:18am

Johnna Holloway 
A good summary appears in The History and Social Influence of the Potato
By Redcliffe N. Salaman. It's all about the sugar content. When Shakespeare has Falstaff, in the Merry Wives of Windsor, say, ' Let the sky rain potatoes and hail kissing comfits' it's talking about sweet delights.

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