root-veg-msg - 4/6/08 Medieval root vegetables. carrots. potatoes. onions, parsnips, sweet potatoes, Radishes. NOTE: See also the files: turnips-msg, vegetables-msg, beets-msg, onions-msg, leeks-msg, potatoes-msg, veg-stuffed-msg, fennel-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ From: dragon7777 at juno.com (Susan A Allen) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 21:31:21 -0700 Subject: Re: sca-cooks Turnips Rutabegas are not period, they are a turnip cabbage hybrid, created for some reason that escapes me at the moment Susan >eaten raw. Also do not confuse turnips with rutabagas which are decidedly >stronger in flavor. As a rule of thumb, turnips are small white at the >bottom, with a light purple blush on top. > >Rutabagas are VERY large, usually coated with wax, yellowish flesh, >dirty white bottom and a deep purple top. > >Lord Ras From: Uduido at aol.com Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:54:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: SC - Carrots << I was taught that Queen Anne's Lace was poisonous. Of course, I never checked it out -- not being a cat ;-> >> The one you want is> Daucus carota (The cultivated carrot is D. carota var. sativa). The Field Book of Natural History, pg. 268 says: Native of Asia, but naturalized from Europe. Now commonly established as a weed in fields, pastures, and waste places. Found from coast to coast in N. America but may be commoner in the East. 25 species in genus. FROM THIS SPECIES HAS BEEN DEVELOPED THE VALUABLE CULTIVATED CARROT. There is reference to the remote possibility that handling the leaves MAY cause dermititis in some people. This warning is also included in the reference to cultivated carrots. No mention is made of it being poisonous but like any other wild plant you should be familiar with it before you eat it. :-) After all there is an extremely remote possibility that you may confuse it with Poison Hemlock. However, since the growing environment are very dissimilar the odds are you would not mistake it. Also they are very different in appearance so far as root structure, flowers, and leaves are concerned. Lord Ras From: nweders at mail.utexas.edu (Nancy Wederstrandt) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:37:12 -0600 Subject: Re: SC - Carrots Concerning wild carrots: I think caution is somewhat advised. Many of the the wild relatives of the carrot are edible, but bear a very close look to the more poisonous kin. Lord Ras is correct in that be sure before you eat. Most of the poisonous relatives of the wild carrot are nasty smelling, and usually have purplish blotches on the stalks. Here in Ansteorra, wild carrot, wild parsley and hemlock can grow near enough to each other to be confusing. Also here are vast quantities of wild onion, which have a companion plant called crow bane that looks very similar. The key is the smell. I was fortunate enough to mundanely worked with a man who wild plant foraged and learned a great deal about them.(He used to be Society Master of Sciences early one) He often ate things that I personally wouldn't but were edible. We rapidly had three lists of plants... inedible, edible and gwilym edible. His name in the SCA was Master Gwilym the Smith. Clare RSJ From: Michael Newton <Michael Newton at postoffice at worldnet.att.net> Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Parsnip reciepe Date: 15 Jun 1997 20:11:15 GMT What kind of Stout {brand names would be helpful} would one use in this reciepe: Parsnips Stewed in Dark Beer or Stout 1 lbs. parsnips peeled and cut in 2 in. chunks 1 cup dark beer or stout A 1 in piece of stick cinnamon 2 large blades of mace 3 whole cloves pinch of salt pinch of pepper place all ingredients in a heavy, medium size saucepan and simmer, covered, 30 to 35 minutes until you can pierce patsnips easily with a fork. Turn heat to low and simmer, uncovered, 10 to 15 min. longer until the beer or stout has thickened into a glaze. Remove spices and serve parsnips hot as an accompaniment to roast fowl, ham, or pork. From Recipes from America's Restored Villages Chapter on Plimoth Plantation, Plymouth, Mass. by Jean Anderson I was thinking about making this receipe for a period potluck our shire is having next month. Lady Beatrix of Thanet From: "Sharon L. Harrett" <afn24101 at afn.org> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 14:32:33 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: SC - Re: turnips On Tue, 17 Jun 1997, Mark Schuldenfrei wrote: > Kohlrabi. Yummm. I would think it a bit too zesty... but worth > considering. (My mother used to be *astonished* at the quantity of raw > kohlrabi I would consume at one sitting. And not a tiny bit upset: that > stuff cost money.) > > For those of you unfamiliar with kohlrabi, it is a root vegetable, rather > ball shaped, and with several stalks arising from various places on the top > hemisphere of the root. It is a vaguely "institutional green", and we used > to peel and slice it into salads. Taste and texture similar to radishes > that are slightly sharp. > > I have no idea if it is period. I do know it is delicious. > > Tibor I think it is. From what I can find in Gerard's Herbal, there is a "round Rape Cole" listed and pictured, that looks exactly like a kohlrabi. He says that they grow in Italy, Spain and Germany, from where he recieved his seeds. They are accounted as daintie meats, contending with the Cabbage in taste. Ceridwen From: Uduido at aol.com Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 19:07:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: SC - Re: turnips << For those of you unfamiliar with kohlrabi, it is a root vegetable >> Order Papaverales Family Cruciferae Brassica caulorapa Native of Europe. Some people consider it variety (var. gongylodes) of Broccoli (B. oleracea). From: Uduido at aol.com Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 09:16:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: SC - Kohlrabi << I can see how you might describe it as radish-like. I wonder if that is caused by different growing conditions? >> This is ideed the case. Kohlrabi must be grown with plenty of moisture and cool temperatures rather quickly and eaten when fairly young. If not, the tuber becomes woody and strong tasting. Lord Ras Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 17:30:01 -0700 From: ladymari at GILA.NET (Mary Hysong) Subject: SC - SKIRRETS Hello, well, finally made it to the library after the skirret info. and here it is: "The World Encyclopedia of Food" copyright 1982 L. Patrick Coyle ISBN 0-87196-417-1 (BTW really yummy book.. :-) ...once a herald, always a herald... :-) Page 612 I didn't copy word for word, this is the gist of the entry... Skirret, also Chervin, the roots of Sium sisarum; originated in Eastern Asai, but cultivated in Europe since Roman times. Supposed to have a sweet taste, with a woody core which is removed before cooking [rather like parsnips, I think] The taste is compared to sweet potates. Also dried and ground for a coffee substitute. This is a huge book that has probably *almost* everything ever known to have been eaten for food in the world. If anyone spots a source for it, I would love to get a copy! to keep at home and read. Well, good cooking and happy feasting everyone. Mairi Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 14:03:03 -0700 From: kat <kat at kagan.com> Subject: SC - parsnips! Juana Teresa entertained us with: > Lady Katerine is SO right about the "underratedness" of parsnips. > yea, parsnips....yea, parsnips...gimme a "P", gimme an "A".... > sorry; I'll go quietly now. > Juana Teresa Go not, milady; I agree with you entirely! I am always amazed and confuzzled by people who consider parsnips = "yucky" or "bitter." My father taught me his method of making parsnips; = which are soooo lovely I've even served them at feasts (and cursed = myself for not saving any for ME; they were vacuumed instantly...) Would this be considered a "period" method of serving this very period = veggie? (..she asks, over a year since she already did it <blush>) Glenn's Minnesota Parsnips 2-3 peeled parsnips, cut into sticks Butter White pepper Cut parsnips to size of veggie-tray carrot sticks (about 2-3" long; = about 1/2 to 3/4" thick. Parboil them till tender but NOT mushy (about = 10-20 minutes). Throw them in a saucepan and fry them in butter, = seasoned to taste with white pepper, till edges are golden-brown. =20 The end result is sweet as candy (just as sweet, in my opinion, as the = brown-sugar-glazed carrots I serve them with every Thanksgiving) and = absolutely delightful. Please, let's not talk about cholesterol, = though.... <grin> What other parsnip recipes are out there? Can someone give me a more = period recipe? Always curious, - kat Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 16:20:29 -0500 From: gfrose at cotton.vislab.olemiss.edu (Terry Nutter) Subject: Re: SC - parsnips! (was re: chicken on string) Hi, Katerine here. kat asks whether parboiled parsnips fried lightly in butter are period. I haven't seen a recipe for that, but vegetables are relatively lightly represented in the corpus, at least partly because they were simply prepared (Taillevent even says so). The recipes I know of call for boiling (there's a lovely soup of boiled parsnips or turnips or skirrets in beef broth with sweet spices, for instance). - -- Katerine/Terry Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 19:00:45 -0700 From: ladymari at GILA.NET (Mary Hysong) Subject: Re: Re- SC - chicken on string Melissa Hicks wrote: [snipped a good bit] > In all my modern herb books I cannot find 'skirrets' except one...which > describes a herb with an edible root which was highly prized by the > Romans and which has the botanical name: > Sium Sisarum. Any ideas anyone? > > Drake Morgan, > Politarchopolis. Aha!!Gardening--something I know lots about! I have a reference to skirrets, just a minute.....Sorry that took so long <cough cough, the dust on that bookcase is choking me...> Here it is: "Gardening for Good Eating" Helen Morgenthau Fox Collier Books, New York Copyright 1943 by The Macmillan Company, renewed 1971 by the author !st edition Collier Books, 1973 2nd printing 1974 these two are the paperback editions. Library of Congress Catalog Card Number 72-12964 And I quote the entire passage, pages54 &55: ================================================================= In the sixteenth century, skirrets, Sium sisarum, were brought to Europe from Siberia and Persia, where they grew wild. The plant is a hard perennial and has fleshy twisted roots, clustered like dahlia tubers. Formerly these roots were a highly esteemed vegetable. Skirrets were grown in Mobile, Alabama, in 1775 and are now obtinable from several nurseries in the United States. The plants make thick lush growth about 2 feet high. The stems and divided leaves are a fresh yellow-green, and the white flowers, in umbels, are somewhat weedy. The shoots and stems have been blanched and eaten as a spring salad. They have a pleasant, slightly camphoracieous taste, and the roots, too, have a pleasant flavor. To increase the supply of plants, they can readily be grown from see, or the roots can be divided in autumn, wintered over in a sandy bed and set out again in the garden in spring. They are hardy enough to endure the winter outdoors, but this method of wintering over perennials in the North has been found highly satisfactory. It does away with the danger of plants being heaved out of the earth through thawing and freezing. The roots can be washed, scraped, and then steamed or boiled and served like any root vegetables. To keep them from darkening after peeling, they are dropped in water with lemon in it. This is Mrs. Glasse's recipe to fricassee skirrets: Wash the roots very well, boil them till they are tender; the thin skin of the roots must be removed and the roots are cut in slices--have ready a little cream, a piece of butter rolled in flour, the yolk of an egg beaten, a little nutmeg, 2 to 3 spoonfuls of white wine, a little salt and stir all together. Your roots being in a dish pour the sauce over them. to this might be added, put the whole dish in the oven to brown. Rosemary can be substituted for nutmeg. =========================== Hope this helps you out, tho I don't know who might have seeds or plants,you could check sead saver exchanges or rare seed companies. Mairi - -- Mary Hysong <Lady Mairi Broder, Atenveldt Kingdom Scribe> and Curtis Edenfield <The C-Man> Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 12:57:16 SAST-2 From: "Ian van Tets" <IVANTETS at botzoo.uct.ac.za> Subject: SC - skirret, succession-houses and nettles Dear all and sundry, This is my first message to the list. I am another Adamastorian (Cape Town, South Africa), formerly of Lochac (Hi to any Stormholders out there. First, that skirret is alive and well and can be got via some seed merchants. Mine in Australia was Phoenix Seeds in Tasmania, who also give historical provenance, level of organic production of seed, and culinary/medicinal uses. Incidentally, I found a period poem -oh, years ago - from Scotland about the glories of wild carrot. Something about honey underground between St. Andrew's Day and Christmas. <snip> Cairistiona nic Bhraonnaguinn Dr. Ian van Tets Dept. of Zoology University of Cape Town Rondebosch 7701 RSA Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 15:24:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Stephen Bloch <sbloch at adl15.adelphi.edu> Subject: Re: SC - help-Queen Ann's Lace Brid wrote: > > << I thought Queen Ann's Lace was poisonous? Ras replied: > > Say what? Queen's Anne Lace is the wild carrot. If you take the seed palnt > > it, grow it, dig it up and pick put the biggest roots, replant it, plant the > > next years seed and repeat the process for at least 3-5 years you will have > > in your garden a 'period' white or red carrot. :-) Ciorstan continued: > This, Lord Ras, is true-- however it is very easy for the new scavenger > to mistake hemlock for Queen Anne's Lace out in the wild, with very > unhappy results. > > If memory serves, there's also a water parsnip variety (remember the > thread on skirrets a while back?) that is highly toxic as well. From my old, scorched, stained copy of _Peterson's Field Guide to Edible Wild Plants_: Wild carrot, Queen Anne's Lace (Daucus carota) A widespread _hairy-stemmed_ biennial. Flower clusters flat-topped, lacy; often with a singule _purple_ flower in center. Old clusters resemble _birds' nests_. Bracts _stiff, 3-forked_. Root white, smells of carrot. 2-3 ft.... Prepare the first-year roots like garden carrots. CAUTION: Early leaves resemble Poison Hemlock (below) but stalks _hairy_. Poison hemlock (Conium maculatum) A tall, much-branched biennial. Stems stout, hollow, grooved, _spotted with purple_. Ill-scented when bruised, unpleasant to taste. Root white, carrotlike. 2-6 ft.... WARNING: small amounts may cause paralysis and death. Similar to Wild Carrot (above) but leafstalks _hairless_. Water-hemlock, Spotted Cowbane (Cicuta maculata) Tall, branching, with numerous flower clusters. Stem smooth, _streaked with purple_, chambered. Leaves twice- or thrice-compound, often reddish-tinged. Root with fat tuberlike branches, white. 3-6 ft.... WARNING: Our deadliest species. A single mouthful can kill. Water parsnip (Sium sauve) Similar to Water-hemlock (above), but stems _strongly ridged_ and leaves _once-compound_ with 3-7 pairs of lance-shaped leaflets. Basal leaves very finely cut, often submerged. Roots slender. 2-6 ft.... USE: roots as cooked vegetable. Boil until tender. CAUTION: Because of its close similarity to Water-hemlock (above), Water-parsnip is best ignored as a possible food plant. Does that make everything crystal clear? mar-Joshua ibn-Eleazar ha-Shalib Stephen Bloch sbloch at panther.adelphi.edu Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 21:54:32 -0400 From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: Re: SC - white drinks and other Mark Harris wrote: > Not for the swans, but wouldn't a turnip dish fit the idea of a "white" dish? > Was there a mashed turnip dish similar to our mashed potatos? I believe Digby has a recipe for mashed, buttered parsnips. They'd be pretty white. Is there a specific chronological theme for this feast? Adamantius Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 17:57:39 -0500 From: dangilsp at intrepid.net (Dan Gillespie) Subject: Re: SC - Period veges Re: Re: Period veggies Elizabeth wrote: " But Menagier de Paris (late 14th c.) describes carrots as "red roots that you buy in the market". When I travelled in India a year ago, the carrots in the market were almost a true red color, or at least a rather dark very reddish orangey color. Perhaps Europe in our period might have had a similarly colored variety. <snip of comments and recipe on eggplant> Take care, Antoine de Bayonne Dan Gillespie dangilsp at intrepid.net Dan_Gillespie at usgs.gov Martinsburg, West Virginia, USA Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 10:55:54 -0600 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: SC - Potatoes This is a repost of this message. I received a message from the system that it did not get properly sent and am reposting. My apologies if you have previosly received this message. >>- 1586: Sir Thomas Herriot introduced potatoes to England from >> Colombia. > >Confirmation, anyone? > >Alasdair mac Iain I don't have any direct reference, but this is possible if Herriot is connected to Sir Francis Drake. In February 1586, Drake tried to take the Spanish treasure fleet at Cartagena, Colombia. He missed the fleet, but took the city and reprovisioned his ships. It is believed by some scholars that potatoes were among the supplies he seized. Drake returned to England via Virginia (which may be when the potato was introduced to North America). There appears to be a scholarly dispute whether potatoes were tasted in the English court following this voyage. There is an English mathematician, Thomas Hariot, who in 1588 wrote A Briefe and True Report of the New Found Land in Virginia describing agriculture on Roanoke Island. To my knowledge, there is no mention of potatoes in Hariot's account. Bear Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:12:47 -0500 (EST) From: "Jennifer L Rushman" <rushmanj at pilot.msu.edu> Subject: Re: SC - Potato Notes. There are many and varied kinds of Potatoes found in S. America. They come in a variety of colors (purple, golden yellow, red) on both the skin and flesh! I believe their botanical origin is there. These colored varieties can be found in a few markets in the US, although they are not very common. I have seen purple in Detroit, MI at their Dealer's Market. This origin may shed more light as to who brought them to Europe (and when) In addition the sweet potato is not in the same family as the common white potato (Irish potato) we all know. The Irish potato is in the Solonaceae where the sweet potato is in the Convolvulaceae (Morningglory) family. The flowers of each are quite different. Here's an expert from a Web page I found discussing sweet/Irish Potatoes: "Nature Bulletin No. 169-A Forest Preserve District of Cook County, Ill. Seymour Simon, President Roberts Mann, Conservation Editor ****:THE SWEET POTATO When the Spanish explorers first came to the New World they wereDate: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 02:36:29 EST From: DianaFiona <DianaFiona at aol.com> Subject: Re: SC - pasternakes << You mean Dr Zhivago was written by somebody who wasn't sure if he was a white or a red? > In a message dated 97-12-16 20:46:13 EST, you (Cariadoc I think) write: > > << pasternakes being a general term for carrots or parsnips, >> >> (Grin) This reminds me of something I was meaning to mention. While prowling in one of our bookstores the other day, I ran across a book whose title was something like "The Kitchen Garden". It was a fairly small and slender book--the type with a few recipes and some nice artwork. In this case most of the art was 1700-1800 c., but there were two paintings that were late 1500s. Both of them were by painter's with Dutch sounding names. Anyway, there were carrots in with the many other foodstuffs in both paintings. *Orange* carrots! And, no, it wasn't just the reproduction, since in one of the paintings there were other carrots that were very definitely red. So evidently orange carrots *were* around, at least in the late 1500's. The info on the artwork was unfortunately confined to the name of the paintings, and the artist's name and born/died dates, so where the paintings were done isn't available. :-( I may have to go back and get that book later, after the Christmas buying is over, just for those paintings! Ldy Diana Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 13:06:31 -0500 (EST) From: Stephen Bloch <sbloch at adl15.adelphi.edu> Subject: SC - nightshades Bogdan wrote: > While I am not sure who brought them, I do know that they were not eaten > for a while due to the pretty flowers. Why, being in the nightshade > family gave the tomato a late start too. Nightshade was known, and the > whole family was shunned. Your random botanical fact for the day Yes, tomatoes and potatoes are both Solanaceae, but so are eggplants, which were widely used at least in Iberian cooking in the Middle Ages. mar-Joshua ibn-Eleazar ha-Shalib Stephen Bloch sbloch at panther.adelphi.edu Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 11:13:21 -0600 From: mfgunter at fnc.fujitsu.com (Michael F. Gunter) Subject: SC - Parsnip/Carrot tart > Gunthar, I really enjoyed the tart of Carrot & Parsnip. My toddler > daughter who doesn't eat vegetables (can spot one BEFORE tasting it > usually) even ate some. Would you mind sending me the recipe? > > Thanks, Clarissa Okay, here's what I have. It's the recipe that was posted by Aiofe from Martha Washington's Boke of Cookery. Although the book is dated 1749 the supposed cookbook she used to copy this is estimated to date from the mid-1500's. To Make a Tart of Parsnips and Scyrrets: Seeth yr roots in water & wine, then pill them & beat them in a morter, with raw eggs & grated bread. bedew them often with rosewater & wine, then streyne them & put suger to them, some juice of leamons, & put it into ye crust; & when yr tart is baked cut up and butter it hot, or you may put some butter into it, when you set it into ye oven, & eat it cold. Ye juice of leamon you may eyther put in or leave out at yr pleasure. Redaction by Ld Ragnar Keitelsson 3/4 lb carrots 3/4 lb parsnips 2 c. wine 2 T. butter 1/2 cup sugar 1/2 cup wine and/or rosewater 2 eggs Juice of 1 lemon (optional) 1 cup breadcrumbs 1 deepdish pie crust egg for glaze Peel and chop roots. Boil in 1 qt water and the 2 cups wine until soft. Mash roughly with 1 cup breadcrumbs, the eggs, the butter (melted), sugar, lemon juice, and the rest of the wine/rosewater. A rough texture is fine. Put into a pre-glazed pie shell and glaze the top with the remaining egg, put into a pre-heated 400 degree oven for 50 minutes. We tested this recipe and found it a little too sweet and too "rosey" so we cut down on the parsnips (this was also for economic reasons) to a 3/1 carrot/parsnip ratio, used half the rosewater, and cut down on the sugar. Also we found a good dry white wine worked better than the sweet dessert wine we first tried. We added a bit of cinnamon and nutmeg to the mix. Also we pureed the parsnip/carrot mixture instead of the rough texture. These came out more like a rough pumpkin pie texture than the original. They were served cold at the feast and I actually got far more compliments on them than I expected. Gunthar Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 08:20:17 EST From: LrdRas <LrdRas at aol.com> Subject: Re: SC - Garden time melc2newton at juno.com writes: << Is rhubarb medieval? If so, how about some recipes? I'm planning on planting one of these things in my yard (mainly for wine, mmmmmmm...). And would love to have proof of it's being "period." Beatrix >> According to Waverly Root in "Food," rhubarb was reached the Western world from China in the Roman era. Pliny mentions it in passing, as does Dioscorides. Ibn-el-Beithar wrote in the 13th century C.E. that rhubarb was common in Syria and had "like chard, it has fairly thick stalks." This suggests that he may have realized it as good to eat and which part was eaten. However, Europeans imported the root only as a medicinal, having in true barbaric European fashion eaten the leaves early on with disastrous results. Leonhard Ruuwolf saw it growing in Lebanon circa 1573-1575 C.E. It was growing in certain abbeys as a medicinal and planted by a certain Adolf Occo in 1570 bringing it into the lay garden. Lyte mentions it as growing in English herborist's gardens as a curiosity in 1578 C.E. Prosper Albinus grew it in the botanical gardens in Padua at the same time, describing and illustrating it in his herbal. It is not until the 18th century that we see reference to it's use as food. And even into the 19th century, it was grown not so much for the edible stalks but rather, in the case of Rheum rhaponticum, for it's edible unopened flower heads. R. rhaponticum curiously is the plant grown by Occo, Albinus Gerard and Parkinson. So apparently rhubarb was NOT grown as food during the Middle Ages although it's roots were imported, or rarely grown, as medicine or botanical curiosities with the exception of the more civilized Persian world where it's culinary delights most probably were known. That being the case, IMO, it deserves a place in the garden for it's medicinal uses along side the many other herbs grown for this purpose. Ras Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 14:03:25 -0400 From: mermayde at juno.com (Christine A Seelye-King) Subject: Re: SC - Celtic Feast Repost--Long > Perhaps you could have included a turnip recipe of some sort. > >Mordonna Actually, we recently had the "Great Turnip Debate" on Tavern Yard, and concluded that turnips weren't common that early in Britain. They were brought over from the continent, Waverly Root says "However, it is on record that turnips were one of the principal foods of the Flemish in the fifteenth century, and the first turnips to be sent to England, in the first half of the fifteenth, came from Holland, with no applause from such Britons as the one who wrote that 'the poor Dutch men, like swine, digge up the rootes!'" Christianna Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 11:05:53 -0500 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: RE: SC - gingered butternut squash soup (Was: Italian Ren Feast) > Seannach asked... > >I just found a modern recipe for gingered butternut squash soup that has > sweet potatoes in it, and am making it tonight to test out.....is there > any way this could be period?< The references I have available suggest that the sweet potato (Ipomoea batatas) entered Italy about 1528 with haricot beans as part of a presentation to Pope Clement VII from Cortez's expedition into Mexico. Bear Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 15:58:12 -0500 From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net> Subject: Re: SC - Fw: carrot pie And it came to pass on 6 Feb 99,, that Tim & Dee wrote: > My name is lachlan and I am from Sunderoak in Aethelmarc > I was wounderin if some good and wise gentle could tell me if carrot pie > would be period or not? It is prepared similar to pumpkin pie any info or > leads where to look or document would be greatly appreciated. M'lord Lachlan, The only carrot pie recipe that I know is late period Spanish. However, it does not greatly resemble a modern pumpkin pie. Here is a translation of the recipe; perhaps it will be useful to you. Torta of Carrot From: "Libro del Arte de Cozina", 1599 Wash and scrape the carrots, and remove them from the water and cook them in good meat broth, and being cooked remove them and chop them small with the knife, adding to them mint and marjoram, and for each two pounds of chopped carrots [use] a pound of Trochon cheese and a pound and a half of buttery Pinto cheese, and six ounces of fresh cheese, and one ounce of ground pepper, one ounce of cinnamon, two ounces of candied orange peel cut small, one pound of sugar, eight eggs, three ounces of cow's butter, and from this composition make a torta with puff pastry* above and below, and the tortillon [pie pan?] with puff pastry all around, and make it cook in the oven, making the crust of sugar, cinnamon, and rosewater. In this manner you can make tortas of all sorts of roots, such as that of parsley, having taken the core out of them. *The word used here for pastry, "ojaldre" ("hojaladre" in the modern spelling) means puff pastry according to my modern Spanish dictionary, and the etymology of the word (from hoja, "leaf") would seem to indicate that it is the period meaning as well. There is a recipe for a veal torta in the same cookbook which calls for the same kind of pastry, and gives instructions for making it: To Make Puff Pastry Pies of Veal Neck Take wheat flour and knead it with egg yolks, tepid water, salt, and a little bit of pork lard, and make it in such a manner that the dough is more soft than hard, and pummel it very well on a table, and make a thin torta, but swiftly, longer than wide and anoint all of it with melted lard which is not very hot and begin to roll up the narrow part, and make a roll the thickness of an arm which will come to be solid, in such a manner that it can be cut, then cut a round slice two fingers in thickness, and have separately another firm dough well kneaded, made from wheat flour, egg yolks, water, and salt without lard, and make of it a pie bottom which is of the bigness of the pastry, and put in it a mixture made as in the preceeding chapter [ie., the veal filling from the previous recipe], keeping the same order to make the mixture high and pyramid- shaped, because the cover that you make is of the same paste, in cooking it can better become puffed [literally, "leafed"], and before you put it in the oven anoint the pie with melted lard, which is cold and not hot, because it clings better to the paste, and then put it in the oven, which must be well swept, and clean, and level, and moderately hot, and especially the upper part, so that the said puff pastry can better puff, and as it begins to puff, anoint it with lard with a feather fastened to a small cane without removing it from the oven, which you will do two or three times, and being cooked you must serve it hot dusted on top with sugar, and if you wish you can put the broth which we have said in the previous chapter. And be aware that if the ceiling of the oven is low, that will be better, because all the puff pastries want the fire hotter above than below. Which you must beware of in the other pies with puff pastry. The recipe then goes on to discuss an alternate (and inferior) dough which is used in Rome, and other fillings that can be used with this pastry. Note that while the veal pie has puff pastry only on the top crust, the carrot torta calls for puff pastry in the top *and* bottom crusts. The "crust" of sugar, cinnamon, and rosewater I would interpret as a sweet topping for the upper crust. I haven't tried this myself, but it sounds tasty, and with the quantities given, it shouldn't be too hard to redact. Remember that medieval eggs would be smaller. If you're not a pastry-baker, ready-made puff pastry can be found in the frozen foods section of your local grocer. Lady Brighid ni Chiarain Settmour Swamp, East (NJ) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 08:54:00 EST From: Seton1355 at aol.com Subject: SC - my medieval dinner party - long Last night I had some mundane friends over and served them a medieval feast. They really enjoyed it and were interested in the background of the recipes. The evening went off well so I thought I'd post the recipes I used. Phillipa <snip of ***Winter Squash or Pumpkin Soup*** recipe> <snip of ***Chicken Ambrogino With Dried Fruit*** recipe> <snip of ***Green Poree for Days of Abstainence*** recipe> ***Mashed turnips and parsnips*** I didn't have a recipe, but I've eaten this at several feasts. 4 medium turnips 2 medium parsnips grains of paradise cubeds margarine peel the veggies and boil until soft, about 20 minutes Drain Put the veggies back in the pot, throw in the margarine and a pinch of ground cubeds and grains of paradise. mash well and be sure to blend everything <snip of gingerbread recipe> Anyway, this was my menu...oh yes, I also made fried potatoes, no recipe. Everyone liked everything, includeing my picky son! IS, Phillipa Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 22:28:56 -0400 From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: Re: SC - My first time.. "Amanda B. Humphrey" wrote: > I am > looking for a reference to radishes being period. I am currently preparing > an art/sci entry and need to document the things I am using for my > soltetie. I have thus far been able to find turnips, and apples, and > parsley, etc. But radishes seem to elude me at every turn. Could someone > suggest a book or web site or just a bibliography type reference that > mentions radishes? They appear in 14th-century English recipes as rafens (from the Latin raphanus), and as radich (es) . Check out Constance Hieatt's and Sharon Butler's "Curye On Inglysch", published by the Oxford University Press for the Early English Text Society in 1985; it contains an excellent glossary of Middle English culinary terms, with an entry on rafens. There may or may not be similar information somewhere in "Pleyn Delit" by the same authors. (Not that Hieatt and Butler wrote the manuscripts transcribed in either of the books, but they wrote more of "Pleyn Delit".) Adamantius Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 00:58:41 -0400 From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net> Subject: Re: SC - My first time.. And it came to pass on 21 Apr 99,, that Amanda B. Humphrey wrote: > You are all so helpful and always seem to know where to find things . I > am looking for a reference to radishes being period. The _Arte Cisoria_ a 15th century Spanish carving manual, mentions radishes in the chapter on carving vegetables. It suggests that they be sprinkled with salt to make the water come out of them, in order to temper their sharpness and frigidity. > Lady Bebhinn O'Siodhachain > Shire of Starhaven > Kingdom of Trimaris Lady Brighid ni Chiarain Settmour Swamp, East (NJ) Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 19:52:24 -0400 From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net> Subject: SC - Period potato recipe I was browsing through one of my Spanish cookbooks, looking for something else entirely, when I came across a recipe for a citron-potato conserve. In view of past discussions, I thought it might interest some of the gentles here. Source: "Libro del Arte de Cozina" (Spanish, 1599); translation mine CIDRA Y PATATA -- Citron and Potato The citron must be mature, make it into four quarters, and remove the sourness, and peel it, and then grate it, and cast it in to cook, and having brought it to boil two or three times, set it aside, and let it cool, and then wash it in tepid water, and cast it in a hair sieve, and wash it in cold waters, until it is not bitter, and leave it until it drains very well. The potatoes must be large, and washed, and cast them in to cook, and when they are tender, peel them, and pass them through a clarifying hair sieve, and then weigh it, and combine it with the citron, and mix it all well, and have in a boiler clarified sugar, and instantly, [it being] thick, cast it in, and set it to cook on a fire of coals, which should be mild, and let it cook, and stir it constantly with one hand, so that it doesn't stick, and when the bottom of the boiler becomes white, it is cooked: cast in a little orange-blossom water, and a little musk, and set it aside, and beat it a while until it cools, and then cast it in the box, and have it five or six days in the sun, and then keep it. The quantity must be, to two pounds of sugar, one and a quarter of potato, and one of citron. Lady Brighid ni Chiarain Settmour Swamp, East (NJ) Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 08:27:49 -0400 From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net> Subject: Re: SC - Citron and Potato And it came to pass on 4 May 99,, that Stefan li Rous wrote: > Lady Brighid ni Chiarain posted a recipe: > > > > Source: "Libro del Arte de Cozina" (Spanish, 1599); translation mine > > > > CIDRA Y PATATA -- Citron and Potato > > How sure are you that the potato that is meant is the white potato? I am not certain at all, but I felt that period recipes for any kind of potato were rare enough to be of interest. One possible clue is that the mixture is to be cooked until the stuff at the bottom of the boiler turns white. If you were starting with white potato and citron and sugar, then I assume the mixture would become more opaque, and look whiter. If you started with sweet potato in the mixture, could it change enough to be called white? I'm out of my field here -- I have never dabbled in conserves or confectionary. Maybe Mistress Alys Katherine would like to add her two pence? > Particularly with the sweetener and the Citron this sounds more like > something for a sweet potato. To our modern taste, yes, but there are many medieval recipes which add sweetening to things we would find unusual. There's a recipe for sweetened cooked lettuce not far from the one I translated, and... Hmmm... I was just flipping pages here. Found another recipe, this one for "Carne de Limon, y Batatas" -- flesh of lemon and sweet potatos. In modern Spanish at least, "patata" is the term for the white potato. "Batata" or "patata dulce" is the sweet potato. So unless you want to argue scribal error (which is *always* possible), it looks to me as though we have two potato recipes, one of each kind. (Yes, Ras, I'll post the other, but right now I have to go to work.) I wish I'd noticed this before, but this source is not the one I'm primarily working with, and it's over 400 pages, and as a diabetic, I don't pay much attention to confectionary recipes. Lady Brighid ni ChiarainDate: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 16:36:35 -0400 From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow) Subject: Re: SC - Questions about Archives and Carrots I just looked at a site yesterday that offered seeds for heirloom carrots in a variety of colors: http://www.webslnger.com/wethepeople/ Wild carrots have white roots. Le Menagier talks of carrots with red roots. Gervase Markham mentions carrots of "sundry colours", and Gerard describes a yellow carrot, and a blackish-red carrot. Carrots colored pale orange and dark red can be seen in oil paintins of the 16th century. Epulario uses carrots to make a jelly a sanguine color. Cindy Renfrow/Sincgiefu renfrow at skylands.net Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 01:32:57 -0500 From: LYN M PARKINSON <allilyn at juno.com> Subject: Re: SC - Questions about Archives and Carrots >>. The orange carrot is a relatively modern invention.<< There are late period paintings of big, fat, orange carrots. I've never seen a maroon one, though. Check the beautiful paintings reproduced in Castelvetro for a look at 16th and 17th C fruits and veggies. Allison allilyn at juno.com, Barony Marche of the Debatable Lands, Pittsburgh, PA Kingdom of Aethelmearc Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 10:11:39 -0600 (MDT) From: Ann Sasahara <ariann at nmia.com> Subject: SC - Harvest Time - root recipe sources _To the Queen's Taste_ by Lorna J. Sass, has a few Elizabethan root veggie recipes: Lumbardy Tartes - diced red beets, currants and cheese baked in a pie Pudding in a Turnep Root - turnips stuffed w/ apples and currants Quelquechose - parsnips and marigolds in orange juice. I have made the quelquechose and it is pretty tasty. It's like candied/sugared carrots in Peg Bracken's _I hate to cook_ book. _Dining with William Shakespeare_ by Madge Lorwin white radishes (cooked w/ honey) boiled beets and fresh greens sallet stewed turnips on sippits raw turnip sallatl umbardy (beet) tartesoops of carrots (honeyied carrot soppets) raw white radishes w/ bread boiled carrot sallet Ariann Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 13:58:51 -0400 (EDT) From: cclark at vicon.net Subject: Re: SC - Harvest Time - root recipe sources There's one near the beginning of _Forme_of_Cury_, called "Rapes in potage" (turnips in stew). At the end it says that "pasturnakes" (parsnips and/or carrots) can be substituted for the "rapus." For either the "rapus" or the "pasturnakes," you clean and parboil the roots, then cook them in broth with minced (and maybe parboiled) onions, saffron, and salt. Sprinkle it with sweet spice powder (powdour douce) just before serving. I cooked this for a feast last year, and for vegetarians there was a separate batch made with almond milk and a bit of oil instead of broth. Later in the same book is a recipe for "Frytour of pasternakes" where pieces of parsnips (or carrots?) are coated in an ale batter, fried, and served with almond milk. If I recall correctly, Platina has a recipe for "armored turnips," whose cheese coating does little to stop hungry eaters. :-) Alex Clark/Henry of Maldon Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:57:51 SAST-2 From: "Jessica Tiffin" <jessica at beattie.uct.ac.za> Subject: Re: SC - It's Harvest Time >There's a problem, though. I've searched through some of my historic cook books >and I'm having difficulty finding recipes which use carrots (or parsnips for >that matter), turnips, and beets. I assume you have the old standbys? Platina's Armoured turnips (layered with cheese, in Cariadoc); there's also a _wonderful_ recipe for turnips cooked in wine with chestnuts, I can't remember where it's from offhand, but it's in Pleyn Delit. (As you may guess, I'm at work and have nary a book with me). Using a semi-sweet white wine takes away the slight bitterness of turnips _beautifully_. Cariadoc also has a couple of broths with turnips, parsnips and carrots, from Platina and Curye on Inglish. Cariadoc's recipes are listed at http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/cariadoc/recipe_toc.html; mail me if you don't have web access and I can send them to you. Jehanne de Huguenin, called Melisant * Seneschal, Shire of Adamastor, Cape Town (Jessica Tiffin, University of Cape Town) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 13:37:30 -0700 From: lilinah at grin.net Subject: SC - I Am What I Yam Lord Stefan li Rous wrote: >I believe we determined earlier on this >list that sweet potatoes were New World. But yams were African. So >I guess if you were considering sweet potatoes a close replacement >for yams, it could be period. I don't eat sweet potatoes or yams, so >I can't say how close they are in taste or texture. There is a problem of terminology when using the word "yam" in the USA, at least. The smooth red skinned, deep golden fleshed tuber commonly called a "sweet potato" and the smooth red skinned but lighter yellow fleshed tuber often called a "yam" in the US are both actually "sweet potatoes", merely variations of the same family of convolvulaceous plants, Ipomoea batatas. According to my dictionary, the word "potato" derives from a word in the Taino language from the Caribbean. Yams are different kinds of starchy tubers, from the climbing vines of the genus Dioscorea (a different genus from Ipomoea, obviously), generally white fleshed with rough brown skins. They grow in a number of different tropical regions, including Asia and the Pacific Islands, in addition to Africa (and there may be some in the South American tropics, too). They can occasionally be found in stores that specialize in Pacific Islands foods, African foods, or Caribbean foods (or here in Northern California, at some supermarkets). According to my dictionary, "yam" comes from West Africa/Senegal nyami, "to eat". In my experience, the cooked flesh is very white, not very flavorful, and has a significantly different texture from Ipomoea batatas, a little gummy. So REAL yams may be African, but they are NOT the yellow sweet potatoes Americans often call yams. They're a whole 'nother animal, errr, i mean, vegetable. Anahita Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:27:51 EDT From: LrdRas at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - ramp harper at idt.net writes: << who has always called the chive-like stuff in her lawn, "onion grass") >> Or it may be just wild chives. Chives readily reseed then selves. Ramps more clearly resemble a small leek in structure with flattened leaves instead of tubular ones. They do not resemble chives (perhaps garlic chives) but are bigger than chives. They can grow to 12 inches high or more. Although tasty they leave a foul odor on your breath and it exudes from your pores for hours after eating them. Ras Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 14:40:45 GMT From: "Liam Fisher" <macdairi at hotmail.com> Subject: Re: SC - ramp > Rhiannon, to the best of my understanding ramps are different from the >stuff growing in our yards around here, which I've always >heard called >simply "wild onions." ramp (ramp), n. Usu., ramps. a wild onion, Allium tricoccum, of the amaryllis family, of E North America, having flat leaves and rounded clusters of whitish flowers. We have what is called "Onion Grass" here which is essentially wild onions, and we have some ramps here too. They're kinda garlicish-onioney in taste, and hard to find around here because most people just mow them. If it looks like a thinner scallion type onion, it is just that a wild onion. >I have the vague impression that ramps grow at higher >elevations, possibly just because of the "Ramp Festival" I remember > >hearing about up on a mountain in the Smokies somewhere. Yep. I forget the town though. >And yes, the >wild onions in our yards are indeed edible, but the >are so >strongly >flavored that I wouldn't advise using them raw (In >salads, >etc.). I think I'd use them in something that required long, >gentle >cooking, perhaps a stew of some kind. They are one >of the things I've been meaning to play with someday, and haven't >quite >gotten around too yet........... ;-) The wild onions go great in stocks. The ones around here (and in my yard :-) ) have a nice earthy-onion-garlic (but very different from a leek) taste and since I only use the green most of the time since I like the little buggers to grow as big as possible so I can use them in a soup or maybe something I'm going to braise. I think I'm going to pot some and if I can find some ramps, them too. Ldy Diana, only a couple of hours north of Rhiannon, in Chattanooga Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 21:45:27 -0500 From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net> Subject: Re: SC - Last Unanswered Buffet And it came to pass on 17 Nov 99,, that Michael F. Gunter wrote: > Cariota > Roasted Carrots > > Roast carrots in the coals, then peel them, cleaning off the ashes, and > cut them up. [snip] > The recipe listed in the book: [snip] > Scrub and scrape carrots, and brush lightly with oil. Either > roast ine a 400 degree oven or arrange in one layer in a > suitable dish for microwaving and microwave at full power, > uncovered, 15 minutes. Slice into a serving dish and dress with > minced herbs, oil, vinegar, wine, and salt and pepper to taste. For what it's worth... De Villena, in _Arte de Cortar_ (1423 carving manual) gives instructions for cutting various fruits and root vegetables, as well as meats. He says that roasted carrots should be cut into quarters. If they are particularly long, then each quarter may be cut into two or three pieces. Of course, Italian practice may have been different than the Spanish. Lady Brighid ni Chiarain Settmour Swamp, East (NJ) Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 20:06:27 -0900 From: Kerri Canepa <kerric at pobox.alaska.net> Subject: SC - Turnips - again! Quite by accident, I got to play with turnips recently. Having had no luck finding 14th c, simple root vegetable dishes (16th c ones seem to abound), I decided to see what I could come up with. A Disshe of Rape Take rape and washe hem and scrape hem and cut hem small, put hem in good water to boyle until it is enow, throw out the water and put hem in a pot of good broth and put in salt and pepir and boyle again and serve forth. 3 fist sized turnips water to cover 1 can beef broth black pepper, ground Wash, peel, and julienne turnips (1/4 inch). Cover with water and boil for 15 minutes. Drain. Put turnips with beef broth back in the pot and simmer until liquid is nearly gone. Salt and pepper to taste. The first try was with chicken broth and about 3 tbs of red wine. The wine gave the turnips a rather odd brownish color and made them rather sharp tasting. The second try with beef broth and pepper was definitely much better tasting. The 1/4 inch julienne breaks down to smaller pieces and the turnips are very soft by the time this is done. They could be mashed if desired but I rather liked the smallish pieces. I put in quite a bit of pepper and it was quite lively. My husband the carnivore ate the first version (chicken broth and wine) and went for more. Hm. I could be on to something here. Kerri Cedrin Etainnighean, OL Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 04:24:26 -0500 (EST) From: cclark at vicon.net Subject: Re: SC - Turnips - again! Kerri/Cedrin Etainnighean wrote: > ... no luck finding 14th c, simple root vegetable dishes ... Try _Forme of Cury_ recipe 7: Rapes in potage. Take rapus and make hem clene, and wassh hem clene; quarter hem; perboile hem, take hem vp. Cast hem in a gode broth and see[th] hem; mynce oynouns and cast [th]erto safroun and salt, and messe it forth with powdour douce. In the self wise make of pasturnakes and skyrwittes. Henry of Maldon/Alex Clark Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 08:58:09 -0600 From: dhumberson at imailbox.com Subject: RE:sca-cooks V1 #1808 - Re: SC - Late Fall/Early Winter Vegetables Anahita al-shazhiya wrote: >thought i'd ask experienced feast planners what late fall/early >winter vegetables you've served and people have actually eaten :-) The top 'seller' for Rowan and I has always been a glazed baby carrot dish known here as 'Rowan's Carrots'. It is very rich, using a pound of butter per pound of brown sugar per eight pounds of soft-steamed baby carrots, and is also a complete pain to make. To glaze properly, boil equal parts butter and sugar in a flat pan with about a teaspoon of water. Add whatever hot spices your guests will tolerate( we started with ginger, are now using a ginger/galingale mix with a hint of white pepper). The boiling mix will foam, up to three inches or so, which indicates the mix is ready for the carrots. Add 1/4 of the total carrots for this batch, stir until the mix foams again, then transfer those carrots to a holding pan and repeat for the other 3 lots. Be careful to fully heat the glaze mix between lots, if it's not foaming vigorously the carrots will sog. After the 4th lot, mix all carrots in holding pan( we use steam table pans), bring the remaining glaze to a boil one more time, and coat the carrots with the mix. Cover the holding pan, maintain at 160 degrees, and hold until served. Garnish with a mint sprig and slice of the ginger used to make the syrup( if the cooks have left any). We serve 16-24 oz per table of 8, and rarely get any back. Hope this helps, Ragnar Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 17:56:09 EST From: CorwynWdwd at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - Late Fall/Early Winter Vegetables lilinah at grin.net writes: > I must say that there have been multiple requests to NOT serve > armoured turnips *again*. Is this due to the number of times served? Or is it that people don't like turnips? If the latter, I've had great success substituting parsnips. Before anyone asks, I can't quote one single period reference to parsnips being substituted for any other root veggie, but it works well here. I have also pleased the crowd with parsnip frittors, taking boiled parsnips sprinkling with powder dulse and wrapping in eggroll wrappers and frying. Peas boiled in almond milk are well liked in this area too. Just a few thoughts off the top of my head. Corwyn Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 07:08:54 -0500 (EST) From: cclark at vicon.net Subject: Re: SC - Late Fall/Early Winter Vegetables Corwyn said: > ... I can't quote one single period reference to parsnips being >substituted for any other root veggie, but it works well here. ... I can! Rapes in potage (near the beginning of the _Forme of Cury_) says that one can use the same recipe to prepare skirrets or pasternakes. Pasternakes are parsnips and/or carrots. I haven't tried armoring them, though. What's a good cheese to use on parsnips? Henry of Maldon/Alex Clark Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 09:19:38 -0800 From: lilinah at earthlink.net Subject: RE: SC - New World Foods-list Bear wrote: >Yams are of African origin and were probably brought into Europe early in >the 14th Century. Yes, but what Americans call yams are of New World origin. African yams are a whole different vegetable. Both what Americans call Sweet Potatoes (with deep orangy yellow flesh) *AND* what Americans call Yams (with pale yellow flesh) are just two varieties of the same plant, both from the New World, with flesh of differing shades of yellow and purplish, mostly smooth skin, both Ipomoea batatas. What are called yams that are from Africa is something one rarely finds in America, and is a tuber with white flesh and rough cocoa brown skin, and are from a number of different plants within genus Dioscorea. Anahita al-shazhiya Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 00:57:23 -0500 From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net> Subject: Re: SC - RE: selecting roots and vegetables And it came to pass that RANDALL DIAMOND wrote: > Has anyone ever seem any period evidence of preparing cooked > radishes or for that matter, any period documentation of > radishes being eaten at all in period? _Arte Cisoria_, a 1423 carving manual, gives instructions for the proper way to slice radishes. It suggests that they should be sprinkled with salt, in order to counteract the cold, watery quality of the vegetable. It does not indicate if the radishes are then to be eaten raw or cooked. _Banquete de Nobles Caballeros_ (1530 health manual) has a short chapter on radishes. It is mostly on their medical properties. Radish is bad for the stomach. Eaten before the meal, it can cause vomiting. However, it counteracts poison; a person who eats radishes will be immune if he is stung by a scorpion that same day. On a more culinary note... the author comments that it is a customary food, especially amongst students, and that it makes a good supper when eaten with cheese. This is also enjoyed by the folk of the palace. There is no indication whether this is a cold supper, or if the radish is cooked with the cheese, a la armored turnips. De Nola (1529) has a recipe for sauce made from the root of "vexisco" radish. It's ground up with toasted bread soaked in vinegar, then cooked with pepper and honey. The same preparation method is also used for parsley leaves and for the leaves of clary sage. Lady Brighid ni Chiarain Settmour Swamp, East (NJ) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 10:46:26 EST From: LrdRas at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - RE: selecting roots and vegetables Bronwynmgn at aol.com writes: << If I recall, the middle English word for radishes is "rafens"; am I correct in this? Brangwayna Morgan >> rad*ish (noun) [Middle English, alteration of Old English raedic, from Latin radic-, radix root, radish -- more at ROOT] SFAIK, rafens is equal to rasens is equal to raisins............ Ras Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 11:24:05 -0500 From: Ian Gourdon <agincort at raex.com> Subject: SC - Re: radishes, cooked > > Could someone > > suggest a book or web site or just a bibliography type reference that > > mentions radishes? >Um, yes, in compost. There's also a sugar candy which uses radishes as a >substitute for pepper, IIRC. Pynades or some such. But cooked in cream >sauce in period, I'm not aware of anything like that. On the other hand, >since period ended (roughly) some sixteen generations ago, it's quite >possible what he says is correct, but they could still not be period. >Adamantius Pynade Curye on Inglysch p. 79 (Diuersa Servicia no. 91) For to make a pynade, tak hony and rotys of radich & grynd yt smal in a morter, & do to + at hony a quantite of broun sugur. Tak powder of peper & safroun & almandys, & do al togedere. Boyl hem long & held yt on a wet bord & let yt kele, & messe yt & do yt forth. - -- Ian Gourdon of Glen Awe, OP Known as a forester of the Greenwood, Midrealm Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 03:03:25 +0100 From: Thomas Gloning <gloning at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE> Subject: SC - period radishes << Doesn't 4 Seasons of the House of Cerruti say something about radishes? >> Yes, there is a page on "Rafani" with a picture and the abbreviated text from the Tacuin sanitatis. In short: it is very warm and dry in nature, dangerous in several respects ("Was sie erzeugen: schlechte S 0fte" 'what they produce: bad humours'), to be eaten mostly by people with a cold and humid complexion, in winter, and people living in northern, cold countries. I hope, everybody out there knows about her or his humoral complexion... << I am looking for a reference to radishes being period. I am currently preparing (...) Could someone suggest a book or web site or just a bibliography type reference that mentions radishes >> There are many dietetic and medical works to mention "raphanus", "radish", "Rettich" etc., for example: - -- Giovanni Battista Fiera's "Coena. Delle virt? delle erbe e quella parte dell'Arte medica che consiste nella regola del vitto" (1530; repr. and ed. Mantova 1992, 79 and 133), - -- Andrew Borde's 'Dyetary of Helth' (16th century, ed. Furnivall 1870, p. 279), - -- the 15th century cookbook and dietetic work of Meister Eberhard (on my website; R96:2), - -- Luis Lobera de Avila has a section about it (chapter XLII. of the 16th century German translation, I found recently!), - -- etc. There is also a 1530 dental handbook stating that eating "Rettich" is dangerous for the teeth. And a 13th century horse book uses "retich" in a medical recipe for sick horses ("Swelich ros ain siechs havpt hab ... der nem retich, wol gederret ...", ed. Gerhard Eis, Meister Albrants Ro?arzneibuch, 1939, 111:5). An appendix to a 1560 German cookery book has a medical recipe for frozen feet to be cured using "Rettich" ("Wann einem die f? erfroren sindt") ... In addition, "radici" 'ravanelli' 'radishes' are mentioned in Giovanna Frosini's "Il cibo e i signori. La mensa dei priori di Firenze nel quinto decennio del sec. XIV" (Firenze 1993, 118), a lexicographical book about the culinary vocabulary of an Italian 14th century manuscript of expenses. I take it from this, that radishes were bought and eaten around 1350 in Florenze. The historical dictionaries of German have _many_ citations for "Rettich". Best, Thomas Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 06:52:58 -0400 From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: SC - Carrots and Turnips-Period? From: WyteRayven at aol.com > My family has a very simple recipe that has been handed down from sometime > before my Great-grandmother. She was born in England, and I am curious if > there are period recipes similar to this. I will be checking the Florilegium, > but I thought that I would send out a note as well. > > The recipe really has no measurements. Everything is done to taste. It is > simply peel boil some carrots, and some turnips (a little less turnips than > carrots) and mash them together with lots of butter and salt and pepper. > > I used to hate it as a kid, but I love it now, though we tend to only have it > during holidays. > > I think that both carrots and turnips are period, but I don't know if the > dish might be or not. I don't know if the dish as you describe it is period, but -- Kenelm Digby (1669 C.E.) has a recipe for parsnips cooked this way. He includes, IIRC, a bit of the cooking water so that when the butter melts it remains emulsified, the whole forming a rather creamy puree...I occasionally refer to this dish as parsnips Alfredo ; ), but there's no cheese. But you know... Hmmm.... Carrots are referred to rather infrequently in the known medieval European recipe corpus, but they did exist, if a bit closer to a parsnip than a modern carrot. As for turnips, they appear somewhat more frequently. These would be the real purple-and-white turnips, rather than the rutabaga or Swede, which is sometimes referred to as a turnip. I have a diner in my neighborhood that invariably makes a mashed mixture of carrots and parsnips in the colder months, and the smart money is on it rather than the overcooked broccoli, the mysteriously grey peas and carrots, and the leathery corn. Adamantius Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 10:47:57 -0500 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: RE: SC - Carrots and Turnips-Period? > Carrots are referred to rather infrequently in the known medieval > European recipe corpus, but they did exist, if a bit closer > to a parsnip than a modern carrot. > > Adamantius The first reference to the orange carrot appears in the 12th Century and the carrots I've found in 16th Century paintings are orange. Orange carrots were very likely the norm by the late Middle Ages. In Antiquity, European carrots appear to have been white like parsnips and indeed the Latin word for carrots and parsnips is the same. Later authors, writing in Latin add to the confusion by not differentiating. Bear Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 09:14:40 -0400 From: "Jeff Gedney" <JGedney at dictaphone.com> Subject: Re: SC - Carrots and Turnips-Period? > You know, I tried parsnips for the first time about a month ago, and I have > to say that I don't think I care for them. Try this ( I am sure it is not period, but it IS very yummy ): Slice 1 lb Parsnips about 1/4 inch thin slices and fry in a little oil and butter until very well browned. (dont be timid, more done is better than less done!) Melt 1/2 stick butter and and 1/4 cup honey together and add 1 tsp fresh chopped tarragon. 1 1/2 tsp dried (or more if the tarragon is old) Place the parsnips in a bowl, and pour honey mixture on it. Toss and serve hot. The key to this is the pan fry which caramelizes the parsnips and brings out the natural sweetness which is otherwise held in the woody root cells. You can do this recipe with Carrots, too, especially if they are those big woody ones you get in high summer. Brandu Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 14:46:43 -0500 From: "catwho at bellsouth.net" <catwho at bellsouth.net> Subject: SC - Found it was: Carrots and Turnips-Period? I knew that turnips and carrots sounded familiar. So I dug through my recipe sites and came up with this one; Rapes in Potage [or Carrots or Parsnips] Curye on Inglysch p. 99 (Forme of Cury no. 7) Take rapus and make hem clene, and waissh hem clene; quarter hem; perboile hem, take hem vp. Cast hem in a gode broth and see+ hem; mynce oynouns and cast + erto safroun and salt, and messe it forth with powdour douce. In the self wise make of pastunakes and skyrwittes. Note: rapes are turnips; pasternakes are either parsnips or carrots; skirrets are, according to the OED, "a species of water parsnip, formerly much cultivated in Europe for its esculent tubers." We have never found them available in the