potatoes-msg - 5/15/08 Period white and sweet potato use. Recipes. NOTE: See also the files: turnips-msg, vegetables-msg, beets-msg, onions-msg, leeks-msg, root-veg-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 06:16:35 -0500 (CDT) From: alysk at ix.netcom.com (Elise Fleming ) Subject: SC - Re: Yams/Sweet Potatoes Linnea wrote: >I have heard that Henry VIII liked sweet potatoes, or yams (which are >different - one being a root the other a tuber) and ate them often. >Any comments, recipies or information? I assume that the "they" who >say this are refering to the African yam and not the New World sweet >potato. They are similar, hence the trend to call both by the other's >name. I just purchased at Pennsic the delightful book _America's First Cuisines_ by the knowledgeable and reputable Sophie Coe. She gives some background on yams/sweet potatoes and their transport into Europe. The sweet potato (Ipomoea batatas) is different from the yam (either Dioscorea batatas or Dioscorea trifida) and her contention is that the taste was so different that one would not have been mistaken for the other. (If you have the book, it's on pp. 19-20). She mentions that there are 3 kinds of sweet potatoes in the US today: "an old-fashioned white kind, a hardy dry yellowy kind, and a moist, sweet, dark orange kind, miscalled a yam." She then gives (above) the botanical name for yam. "With the New World yams we will have nothing further to do, except to say that if they are the 'ages' or n~ames" Columbus and his successors found in the West Indies, they were considered inferior to sweet potatoes, a quick-growing food fit only for servants and slaves." They apparantly were rare even in Spain through the late 1500s. I have (somewhere) two recipes for using "potatoes" but can only recall having seen two. Memory says that the recipes are in books from the late 1500s or mid-1600s. Ms. Coe gives some of the background on the spread of various New World foodstuffs. Some went via Asia and became popular there before the Europeans embraced that particular food. Some went to Africa to become a staple before the Europeans ate the same food in any quantity. From her comments, she indicates that it is the sweet potato that was popular, not the "yam" which is a different botanical plant...Although we, to our infinite confusion, call "sweet potatoes" "yams". Go figure! :-) Alys Katharine, still doing loads of laundry from Pennsic. Anyone want some dried-out bugs?? Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 18:08:02 -0400 From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: Re: SC - Re: sca-cooks V1 #346 John and Barbara Enloe wrote: > There are numerous documentations for potatoes in late period (last 25 or > so years). > > jon What there is, is _some_ documentation, not especially numerous, suggesting that sweet potatoes were occasionally eaten in late period, particularly in Spain, Portugal, and England, more or less as a novelty. That doesn't mean that white Virginia potatoes were typical of the cuisines of Medieval Europe, even if the documentation that exists for sweet potatoes did, in fact, refer to white ones, which are botanically very different. It can get confusing, because sweet potatoes are almost invariably referred to as simply "potatoes", until years later , when it became necessary to use the qualifiers of "sweet" and "Virginia" or "white". It is primarily the various illustrated herbals that make it quite clear that what they call potatoes are actually sweet potatoes. Adamantius Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 09:20:09 -0500 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: RE: SC - Late-period is NOT Medieval >Technically, perhaps. Although I am more inclined to view sweet potatoes as >the more accurate potato. <deleted> >Ras Richard Hakluyt (1552? - 1616) comments on the superior taste of the sweet potato, which suggests that he ate them within period. There is no evidence he converted anyone else to his view of the vegetable. Bear Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 18:19:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Bronwynmgn at aol.com Subject: SC - Fwd: Addition to potato debate from Rialto discussion << C. Kevin Kellogg (kellogg at rohan.sdsu.edu) wrote: : VJARMSTRONG (VJARMSTRONG at UALR.EDU) wrote: : : Mentioned in herbals but what context? Surely not as a food item at that : : early date, more likely simply as plant oddities from the New World. : Unfortunately that site, as wonderful as it is, does not Well, I looked for biographic data on Clusius in SDSU's library. I couldn't come up with much. Everyone agrees that he had something to do with potatoes (the Enclyclopaedia Britannica is more interested in crediting (blaming?) him for tulips in Holland). I did, however, find the interesting book, _The History and Social Influence of the Potato_, by Redcliffe Salaman, 1949, Cambridge University Press. He quotes John Gerard's 1599 herbal: ...The roote is thicke, fat, and tuberous; not much differing either in shape, colour, or taste from the common Potatoes [this in reference to Peruvian sweet potatoes], saving that the roots hereof are not so great nor long; ... This, to me, indicates that at least Gerard ate a potato prior to 1600, otherwise he could not have commented on it's taste. Salaman also quotes from a translation of Gaspard Bauhin's 1596 _Phytopinax_: ...The root if of an irregular round shape; it is either brown or reddish-black, and one digs them up in the winter lest they should rot, so full are they of sugar. ... ... We have further learnt that this plant is also known under the name of tartuffli, doubtless because of its tuberous root, seeing that this is the name by which one speaks of Truffles in Italy, where one eats these fruits in a similar fashion to truffles. This would indicate that the Frenchman Bauhin believed that the italians were eating potatoes prior to 1600. Salaman quotes from a translation of the _Theatre d' Agriculture et Mesnage des Champs_ by Olivier de Serres, published in 1600. This shrub, called Cartoufle, bears a fruit of the same name comparable to truffles, and is so called by some. It came from Switzerland to the Dauphine, a short time ago. ... One keeps them during the winter in sand... Some do not trouble to layer this plant, but let it grow and fruit at its will, harvesting the crop in due season, but the tubers do not do so well in the air as in the ground, thus conforming to the habit of true truffles, which the cartoufle resembles in shape, though not so well in colour, as they are lighter than truffles! The skin not being rough but smooth and moveable. That is the difference between these fruits. As to the taste, the cook so dresses all of them so that one can recognize little difference between them. So here we have another reference to eating potatoes in the fashion of truffles. Carolus Clusius (remember him, this was supposed to be about him) wrote in his 1601 _Historia Rariorum plantarum_: ... The first mention I recieved of this plant is ... toward the beginning of the year 1588, ... The Italians do not know whence they first obtained it, but it is certain that they got it either from Spain or America. ...although it was so common and frequent in certain parts of Italy, for it is said that they used to eat the tubers of it cooked with mutton in the same manner as they do with turnips and the roots of carrots. They actually employed it for fodder for pigs. ... But now it has become sufficiently common in many gardens in Germany since it is so fecund. I think this is enough evidence to support the eating of potatoes for very late period German, French, Italian, English, and Swiss personas, cooked either in the manner of root vegetables or truffles. Avenel Kellough Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 15:02:12 -0500 (EST) From: Mark Schuldenfrei <schuldy at abel.MATH.HARVARD.EDU> Subject: Re: SC - Deletable PC stuff, only partly to do with food. potatos aren't period. margali I know this was said in gest.... but someone on the Meridiean list made me aware of an exception..... Let me find it. Mistress Falada had written" Just an FYI - Dame Fiona has a period (yes, period) recipe for potatoes. And before anyone jumps me: I know that the white potatoes we have today are not the black, oily period variety. However, I have yet to see the period type any place that I could purchase them. Therefore, substitutions should be acceptable. Anyway, Dame Fiona's documentation was good enough to be accepted at her Grand Chef qualification feast. If anyone is interested, I am sure she would be glad to share the information. And later, Dame Fiona herself said: Second, as far as the potatoes are concerned, the recipe was published in a German cookbook in 1598. To describe the dish I would simply have to say "hashbrowns". Is this the same recipe you are referring to Tibor? Variations of the recipe are available in many modern cookbooks, but I got it from an English translation of the original recipe. It is called "Rosti". Tibor Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 15:55:07 -0600 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: RE: SC - Period Potatoes <deleted> >I had seen that comment before that "Potatoes aren't period" but I don't >see how this is possible. There were Irish people living during Medival >times, and potatoes in Ireland are a STAPLE food! In fact, I saw on TLC >once, where hundreds of thousands of Irish men women and children starved to >death at one point (sorry, it was a few months ago, and I dont' remember the >date cited) because of a blight brought in from England that destroyed ALL >the potato crops on the Island. It left the poor with nothing (as the show >stated it , "not very little to eat but NOTHING to eat") to eat for many >months, and the population was devastated. I'm far from an expert in >Medival cooking, but I do not see how potatoes could be anything but period! > >-Laurene Pardon what may be perceived as a lecture tone, but it's the fastest way to dump all these facts, which, in this case, are mainly lifted from James Trager's Foodbook, some of his dates and interpretations are open to question, but he seems pretty solid on the generally agreed upon facts. The white potato and the sweet potato are both New World in origin, so no potatoes in Europe before 1492. Yams which look like sweet potatoes are a different species of plant and were common in Asia and Africa. Gonzalo Jimenez de Quesada found white potatoes being eaten in tha Andes approximately 1530 C.E. These were apparently shaped like peanuts and between the size of peanuts and plums. The first written reference to potatoes is in Pedro de Leon's Cronica del Peru, circa 1553. In general in the New World, the sweet potato was preferred over the white potato in size and taste. The Germans were probably the first Europeans to regularly eat potatoes. The earliest known recipes appear in Ein Neu Kochbuch, circa 1581. A century later Frederick William forceable spread the planting of potatoes in Brandenburg. Fifty years after that, Frederick the Great spread seeds and cultivation instructions in Prussia. Apocryphally, Sir Walter Raleigh introduced the potato to England and grew them on his estates. In 1663, the Royal Society urged the planting of potatoes to prevent famine with little success. By 1770, they were a cash crop, sold in the public markets of Britain. They became the basis of the Irish diet late in the 18th century. The Great Irish Potato Famine occurred 1845-49. Interestingly, in the 1840s potato famines appear to have been international, affecting every country dependent upon potatoes. The Irish famine is remembered because the British government by its inaction used a natural disaster to rid itself of the problem of the Irish. Potatoes are mentioned in two of William Shakespeare's plays; The Merry Wives of Windsor, circa 1600, and Trolius and Cressida, circa 1601. From the dates, you can plainly see that the existence of potatoes and the knowledge of potatoes is period. What isn't period is the eating of potatoes in Europe. While some adventurous souls probably tried them, they would not have been common to a pre-1600 European feast. The exception to this, may be Germany, because of the cookbook noted above. Bear Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 20:10:51 -0600 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: RE: SC - Period Potatoes >Can anyone provide the quotes? Gods only know where my copy of Shakespeare >has gotten to.... > >Alasdair mac Iain >James and/or Nancy Gilly >katiemorag at worldnet.att.net Let the sky rain potatoes. The Merry Wives of Windsor (Act V, Scene 5) How the devil Luxury, with his fat rump and potato-finger, tickles these together. Trolius and Cressida (Act V, Scene 2) The references are probably to sweet potatoes, but it suggests that the public was probably familiar with the sweet potato even if they didn't eat it. Another interesting comment, this from Reay Tannehill's Food in History, is that in 1573 the Hospital de la Sangre in Seville ordered potatoes at the same time they did other stocks. Which suggests that potatoes were being used in Spain, though they may not have been common. The information is attributed to Salaman, R.N.; The History and Social Influence of the Potato. I believe this book has been previously been noted on the list. It is supposed to be the seminal work on the history of the potato. Bear Date: Fri, 7 Nov 1997 22:56:03 -0500 (EST) From: LrdRas at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - Re: Peanuts, Sweet Potatoes, Etc. << Query: "Accepted theory" by whom? Where cited? Query: "At least 2 centuries before their arrival in Europe" What date would that make it? The 1500s or earlier? >> History of Food, Maguelonne Toussaint-Samat (Translated by Anthea Bell); pg. 65. "The sweet potatoe comes from the equatorial forests of America. A widely traveled tuber, it reached Polynesia two thousand years ago, and helps to clarify the problem of contacts between the Pacific Islands and the north coast of South America. It is an additional proof that Melano-Polynesian migrations took place in ancient times. Until quite recently it was thought that the sweet potato was introduced into Africa at the beginning of the slave trade. We now have to put that date back several centuries, without knowing how or why it got there. Perhaps across the Pacific, as the intrepid Polynesian canoeists made their return journey from the coasts of Ecuador or Columbia to the archipelagos, then on to either Malaysia and South-est Asia or to East Africa by way of Madagascar. Maize, groundnuts, peppers and cassava are thought to have accompanied the sweet potato. The coconut palm, the banana tree and the taro ( a huge root known to the Romans) are also believed to have travelled in the canoes, together with agricultural techniques which are remarkably similar in all tropical regions (including hoeing, brush fires, terrace cultivation and long fallow periods, .......etc." Ras Date: Sat, 8 Nov 1997 12:20:41 -0600 (CST) From: alysk at ix.netcom.com (Elise Fleming ) Subject: SC - Potatoes (Sweet, Etc.)-LONG Greetings! Here is some more fodder for discussion. At the end, Sophie Coe discusses what happened with Gerard and his Herbal. One of her comments (near the end) would lead to the conclusion that there is no place in SCA feasts for white potatoes. Sophie Coe on potatoes, sweet potatoes, and yams: Excerpts from her book _Americas First Cuisines_. (p. 19) "The history of the potato is inextricably mixed with the history of the sweet potato and that of several other plants as well. If anyone has doubts as to the utility and necessity of Latin names, let this be a lesson for them, because the common names, [a[as, batatas, papatas, give us only the vaguest idea of what is being talked about."... (p. 19) "This being the case we must define our terms. By pototo I mean the tubers of 'Sonanum tuberosum' and other species of 'Solanum.' By sweet potato, or 'batata', I mean the thickened roots of 'Ipomoea batatas'. There are three kinds of sweet potatoes eaten in the United States today, an old-fashioned white kind, a hardy dry yellow kind, and a moist, sweet, dark orange kind, miscalled a yam. True yams are members of the Dioscoridae family, among them one unfortunately named 'Dioscorea batatas' but domesticated in the Old World, and another named 'Dioscorea trifida', a New World domesticate. With the New World yams we will have nothing further to do, except to say that if they were the 'ages' or 'n~ames' Columbus and his successors found in the West Indies, they were considered inferior to sweet potatoes, a quick-growing food fit only for servants and slaves." (p. 20) "The New World history of the sweet potato is complex. The Uto-Aztecan word 'camotli' seems to be the root of all the words found for it in the Pacific area, for the sweet potato is found not only in the New World but also in Polynesia, from Hawaii to Easter Island to New Zealand.....the sweet potato could have been taken to Polynesia, either deliberately or on the drifting boat so beloved by the diffusionists. Polynesians could also have fetched it, although such visitors were probably much more in danger of being turned into foodstuffs themselves than returning with novel foodstuffs. The third possible scenario is that the sweet potato did not stop in Spain when it arrived there after Columbus but continued its eastward journey, so that when explorers got to Polynesia in the eighteenth century the sweet potato had had time to become thoroughly embedded in the culture. However, when there was a famine in Fukien province in 1593, the Chinese authorities sent a mission to the island of Luzon to find new food plants. The commission returned the following year with a new food plant, the sweet potato, which remains to this day the food of the indigent in China. The Philippines were of course in contact with Mexico via the Manila galleons which sailed from Acapulco to Manila and may have brought sweet potatoes as they brought many other New World plants." (p. 21) "The potato, 'Solanum tuberosum' and allies, did not travel as swiftly as the sweet potato, even if we reject the possibility that the sweet potato could make it from Spain to the Philippine island of Luzon in less than a century. The potato was not even seen by the Europeans until the 1530s, when they conquered the cold highlands of Colombia and Peru. That is to say, cultivated potatoes were not seen by the Europeans until that time. More than two hundred species of wild tuber-bearing potatoes exist in the New World, growing from the state of Colorado in the United States south to Chile and Argentina, but if the Europeans ever noticed anybody eating them, they did not record it." (p.21) "There was a flurry of descriptions of the potato in the herbals of the late sixteenth century. It was at this time that the British botanist Gerard planted the seeds, or perhaps one should say the potato eyes, of trouble when he confused 'Solanum tuberosum' from South America with 'Apios tuberosa', the ground nut, which was eaten by Indians and early colonists in Virginia. For years the English-speaking world called 'Solanum tuberosum' the Virginia potato and thought it came from Virginia and had been domesticated there, even though there were no wild potatoes to be found there, nor any domesticated ones either." (p. 23) "After this almost everybody in Europe lost interest in the potato for several hundred years. The one place it did take root was Ireland, where the seventeenth-century diarist John Evelyn knew it as the Irish potato and thought it an acquired taste, only suitable for the poor, or for the servants when it was necessary to reduce expenses (Evelny 1818, 2:292)." Alys K. Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 23:02:08 -0600 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: SC - Pototoes - LONG POST WARNING -- Long post on the natural history of the potato. Fuel for the fire, but no recipes for the cooking, unless you want to count being cooked with mutton in the manner of turnips and carrots as a recipe (Italy pre-1601 with caveats). I went looking for a copy of Salaman's The History and Social Influence of the Potato. I didn't find it, but I did find Stuart, William; The Potato, Its Culture, Uses, History, and Classifications; J.B. Lippincott, New York, 1937. Stuart was the Chief Horticulturist for the USDA and the book was written as an ag-school text book. The chapter on the history of the potato has a number of interesting quotes, a few of which I'll reproduce here. The first published description of the potato is in Bauhin, Caspar; Phytopinax, 1596: <quote> The stem is in the form of a stalk about one and one-half to two feet in length; fruit in the shape of a golden apple, nearly round,.....stem green, somewhat branched, nevertheless it sometimes reaches the height of a man.....Leaves about the length of the hand, rough on the under side with pale hair. Much divided into six, eight or more or less parts; like single leaves, to the number of which an odd one is always added; round to oblong, simple, arranged opposite and there are usually two, six or more small leaves interspersed along the leaf stalk. The branches are usually divided into two stalks, each of which bears many flowers, some closed and three or four open, ranging from blue to purplish, spreading out into five points which somewhat greenish-yellow lines traverse and divide; in the centre there are usually bunched four reddish stamens, as in Malum insanum. The flowers are succeeded by single round fruits, hanging on long stems, like a cluster, as in Solanum vulgare, but far larger; for some of them equal a nut (probably a walnut) in size; some of them indeed grow no larger than a filbert, all nevertheless striped with equal lines, like the Malum aureum, which range from green to blackish and, when mature, to a dark red Iprobably a purplish-black). In these the seed is small, flat and round, somewhat swarthy. The root is round, but not circular, of a swarthy of dark red color; it is taken up from the earth in the winter time and is returned to the earth in the spring. At the base of the stem, at the head of the main root, long fibrous roots are spread out, on some of which small round roots are borne (tubers). We name this Solanum because of certain form of its leaves and of the fruit, which is like Malum aureum; then of the flowers, which are like Malum insanum; then, of its seed, which corresponds to the Solani; and finally, on account of the unpleasant odor of it, common to the Solani. In giving his source of information, Bauhin says: The seed was sent under the name of papas of the Spainards, and originally of the Indians, which grew easily in our garden almost like a leafy shrub, as in the garden of Dr. Martin Chmielecius, who had one with a white blossom. On account of our long standing friendship, Dr. Laurentius Scholtzius, a physician, sent me a drawing of a plant that he had grown in his garden, sketched in colors, but without fruit, and the root appendages. <end quote> Gerard in his 1596 catalog refers to the potato as Papas orbiculatus. In the Herball of 1597, he calls the potato Batata virginiana sine Virginanorum et Papus (Potatoes of Virginia). The following comments are from Wight, W.F.; Origin, introduction and primative culture of the potato. Proceedings of the Third Annual Meeting of the Potato Association of America, Nineteen Sixteen; 35-52, 1917. <quote> The idea that the potato was introduced from Virginia into England, is, however, so prevalent in literature that it should have some consideration, even though the claim is not made that the potato was native to Virginia. Few, in fact, have believed that it was cultivated by the Indians previous to the era of European exploration and settlement; and no evidence has ever been brought forward, so far as I am aware, in support of such a contention. The conclusion in regard its introduction from Virginia rests solely on the assumption that the root (called by the Indians Openauk), described by Thomas Hariot in A Brief and True Report of the New Found Land of Virginia, first printed in London in 1588, is the potato; and is also the plant described by Gerard in his Herball issued in 1598. Hariot says: "These roots are found in moist and marshy grounds, growing many together in ropes as though they were fastened by string." He states that they grew naturally or wild, which would be improbable if they were potatoes introduced after the discovery. The description also applies better to Apios tuberosa, the ground nut, than it does to the potato. Furthermore, the Indians would scarcely have had a distinctive name for a plant so recently introduced. We may assume, from the evidence at hand as to the improbability of the potato being known, and still less cultivated in Virginia at that time, if Raleigh's vessels in charge of Sir Francis Drake did bring the potato to England on the date mentioned, they must have secured it from some South American trading vessel, or at a point other than Virginia. <end quote> Wight's comments on Gerard's inconsistencies: <quote> It is curious, if Gerard had the plant described by Hariot, that he did not use his name (Openauk) instead of a word which is not known to have occurred in the Indian language within the present border of the United States or Canada. The question of how Gerard came by the word 'papas' may be settled with reasonable certainty, for he says: "It groweth naturally in America where it was first discovered, as reporteth C. Clusius.....It is doubtful if Clusius would have reported anything concerning the potato before he recieved the tubers, which was in 1588, two years after Hariot's return from America; yet Gerard says: "since which time (referring to the statement of Clusius) he had received roots from Virginia," and this would indicate that he must have received roots from some other voyage. The figure in the Herball is in two parts, and it may be doubted if the tubers figured are potatoes, at least this part of the figure, for some reason, is changed in Johnson's edition of the Herball in 1636. <end quote> Clucius, C.; Rariorum Plantarum Historia: 79, Chap. LII, 1601: Clucius gives a description of Papas Perunorum. <quote> There is an edible root of a new plant, which but a few years ago was not known in Europe.....It springs at first from a bulb, which, with us, startsinto growth about April, not later; within a few days after planting it puts forth leaves of a dark purplish color, hairy, which, presently unfolding, show a green color; 5, 7, or more leaflets on the same stem, not very different from the radish, always of an odd number, some smaller leaves being interspersed, and the odd one always occupying the extreme tip of the petiole. The stem is of the thickness of the thumb, angular, and covered with down. From the axils of the petiols coarse stalks appear, angular pedicels, bearing 10 to 12 or more flowers about an inch or more across, angular, consisting of one piece, but so folded that there appear to be five seperate leaves, of a whitish-purple on the outside,inside purplish, with five green rays appearing from the centre like a star, with yellow stamens gathered together in the centre, and a prominent greenish style. After the flowers, which bear an odor resembling the odor of the flowers of the linden, roundish apples appear, not much different from the fruit of the mandrake, only smaller, green at first, white at maturity; full of juicy pulp which contain many flat seeds scarecely larger than the seeds of the fig. When in the month of November, the plant is dug after the first frosts, there are discovered tubers of various sizes. These are uneven, recognized by certain marks whence, the following year, shoots will start forth. I remember, also, that there were collected more than 50 tubers from one single plant, some so large that they weigh an ounce or even two, the outside skin reddish or approaching a purple color, some small, as though not yet mature; they have a whitish skin which is very tender in all the tubers, but the flesh itself is firm and white. From the tubers alone therefore, we must expect the preservation of the genus, and from the seed, the daughter plants of which, in the same year, bear blossoms, but of a different color from the mother plant. So I have learned from others, though I have never tried the experiment myself. True it is my friend Johannes Hogeladius described plants to me produced from the seed which I sent him, which produced white blossoms altogether. I received the first authentic information about this plant from Phillipus de Sivry, Dn. de Walhain and the Prefect of the City of Mons in Hannonia, of the Belgians, who sent two tuber of it, with its fruit, to me in Vienna, Austria, at the beginning of the year 1587, and in the following year, a drawing of the branch with a flower. He wrote that he had received it the preceeding year from a certain employee of the Pontifical Legation in Belgium. Later Jacobs Garerus, Jr., sent me a Frankfort drawing of a whole saltk, with roots. Indeed, I have much desired to exhibit the whole plant here, but I have taken pains to portray it in two drawings from the living plant--one representing flowers and fruit, the other roots and tubers clinging to their own fibers. The Italians do not know where they were first produced. Certain it is, however, that they were obtained either from Spain or from America. It is a great wonder to me that, when it was so common and frequent in Italian settlements (so they say), that they feast upon these tubers, cooked with the flesh of mutton, in the same manner as upon turnip and carrots, they give themselves the advantage of such nourishment, and allow the news of the plant to reach us in such an off-hand way. Now, indeed, in many gardens of Germany it is quite common because it is very fruitful. <end quote> Stuart's comments: <quote> It is apparent to the reader that there are some inconsistencies in the description of the potato by both Bauhin and Clusius. Take for example Bauhin's description of the fruits, which he says are dark red when mature. In many of the varieties from South America which have come under our observation, the mature fruits are a dark purplish-black or dark bluish-green black, whereas in all varieties that are classified under groups 1 to 12 in Chapter XII they are a light lemon-yellow color when mature. In view of this fact, we may accept Bauhin's description of the color an not entirely inaccurate. It requires some imagination on the other hand to accept Clusius's statement that the odor of the potato flower resembles that of the linden. His description of the mature fruits would indicate that the variety he had was different from that of Bauhin's. The accuracy of obnservation of Clusius is well indicated in his description of the color of the tubers in which he says "some small, as though not yet mature, they have a whitish skin." This observation has been repeatedly verified in studying a number of tuber-bearing species of Solanum from Mexico. The immature tubers very frequently do not show color, whereas when they mature, several species have always developed a purplish color. <end quote> <quote> While we have little definite knowledge as to how extensively the potato was cultivated prior to the seventeenth century, we can safely assume that it had not yet emerged from the curiosity or novelty stage in its development as a staple food plant, although Clusius says that it is reported to be more or less commony grown in Italy, and further remarks that, because of its fruitfulness, it is quite commonly grown in many gardens of Germany. Despite these statements of Clusius, the fact remains that the potato was little grown in Europe before the latter part of the seventeenth century, and, in fact, did not become of great commercial importance until the later half of the eighteenth century. <end quote> searching for an ocean route to India and its fabled treasures of gold, silver, spices and jewels. They found them on these two new continents, North and South America, but they found many other things far more valuable, including three of the world' s most important food plants: corn, the white or Irish potato, and the sweet potato. Being a tropical plant, the sweet potato probably was found before the Irish potato -- by Columbus in the West Indies, by Balboa in Central America, and by Pizarro in Peru. Like corn, it was not found growing wild, but it had been cultivated by the Incan and pre-Incan races for thousands of years. They had developed many varieties, as is shown by their ancient pottery. In most places in Latin America, the sweet potato is called "camote", but the Incans called it "batata" and that is apparently the origin of our word "potato". The sweet potato was carried back to Spain and thence to Italy, from where it spread to Austria, Germany, Belgium and England before the first Irish potatoes arrived. It took 200 years for the English to accept Irish potatoes as being fit for human food, but the sweet potato immediately became a rare and expensive delicacy. Now it is widely grown in Asiatic lands, including Japan and southern Russia, in the warmer Pacific islands, in tropical America, and in the United States as far north as New Jersey." from :http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/natbltn/100-199/nb169.htm Hope this shed a little light on potatoes. Lady Clare Hele Barony of Rivenstar, Middle Kingdom Jennifer Lynn Rushman Si hoc legere scis Purdue University nimium eruditionis habes. Master's Student, Horticulture Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 09:41:33 EDT From: LrdRas at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - The Potato Question << Please, what would I ask for to get a "rose patato" -- a "gold patato?" They sound interesting. When did these types make it to the old world? Balldrich >> Some of these varieties should be available at any good supermarket. If not, Yukon Gold can be had from a good seedsman. Blue potatos are available from Guerney's. Unfortunately the colored varieties which would have made it to the old world are lost in the mists of time although wild varieties of potato have a propensity to be multicolored, I know of no sources either commercially or otherwise for these wild types. Modern potatos which have colors associated with them are a result of careful selection and breeding.for size, disease resistance, etc.. BTW, colored varieties, indeed any variety of potato purchased in the market can be planted by the home gardener although they may be "patented". (What a ludicrous concept! :-0). :-) Ras (Who is sitting, weapon in hand, waiting for the plant patent police to come and rip up his garden) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 16:46:18 -0400 From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow) Subject: RE: SC - potatoes > At 18:28 28-9-98 -0500, Bear wrote: > >...there is one very late 16th Century recipe from Germany. > > Anybody have a copy of that recipe handy? > > Alasdair mac Iain <snip> Hello! I don't have that one, but here is a reference from Gerard's Herball of 1633. Sorry if this is a repeat; I haven't been following this thread: Potato pages 926-928 (See also Sweet Potatoes). "<i>Battata Virginiana, siue Virginianorum, & Pappus. </i>Virginian Potatoes. The temperature and vertues be referred vnto the common [sweet] Potatoes, being likewise a food, as also a meate for pleasure, equall in goodnesse and wholesomenesse vnto the same, being either rosted in the embers, or boyled and eaten with oyle, vinegar, and pepper, or dressed any other way by the hand of some cunning in cookerie." [Sweet] Potato - pages 925-926. <p>"<i>Sisarum Peruvianum, siue Batata Hispanorum. </i>Potato's. The Potato roots are among the Spaniards, Italians, Indians, and many other nations common and ordinarie meate; which no doubt are of mighty and nourishing parts... being tosted in the embers they lose much of their windinesse, especially being eaten sopped in wine.<br> Of these roots may be made conserues no lesse toothsome, wholesome, and dainty than of the flesh of Quinces: and likewise those comfortable and delicate meats called in shops <i> Morselli, Placentulae,</i> and diuers other such like.<br> These Roots may serue as a ground or foundation whereon the cunning Confectioner or Sugar-Baker may worke and frame many comfortable delicate Conserues, and restoratiue sweete meates. They are vsed to be eaten rosted in the ashes. Some when they be so rosted infuse them and sop them in Wine; and others to giue them the greater grace in eating, do boyle them with prunes, and so eate them. And likewise others dresse them (being first rosted) with Oyle, Vineger, and salt, euerie man according to his owne taste and liking. Notwithstanding howsoeuer they bee dressed, they comfort, nourish, and strengthen the body, procuring bodily lust, and that with greedinesse." More excerpts from Gerard are at http://members.aol.com/renfrowcm/gerard.html Cindy/Sincgiefu renfrow at skylands.net Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 13:25:15 -0400 From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow) Subject: Re: SC - Italian Ren Feast If yours is a very late-period feast, you may include the new world items. Here is a snippet from Gerard's Herball of 1633. There is more info on potatoes & maize (turkey millet) at http://members.aol.com/renfrowcm/gerard.html [Sweet] Potato - pages 925-926. "Sisarum Peruvianum, siue Batata Hispanorum. Potato's. The Potato roots are among the Spaniards, Italians, Indians, and many other nations common and ordinarie meate; which no doubt are of mighty and nourishing parts... being tosted in the embers they lose much of their windinesse, especially being eaten sopped in wine. Of these roots may be made conserues no lesse toothsome, wholesome, and dainty than of the flesh of Quinces: and likewise those comfortable and delicate meats called in shops Morselli, Placentulae, and diuers other such like. These Roots may serue as a ground or foundation whereon the cunning Confectioner or Sugar-Baker may worke and frame many comfortable delicate Conserues, and restoratiue sweete meates. They are vsed to be eaten rosted in the ashes. Some when they be so rosted infuse them and sop them in Wine; and others to giue them the greater grace in eating, do boyle them with prunes, and so eate them. And likewise others dresse them (being first rosted) with Oyle, Vineger, and salt, euerie man according to his owne taste and liking. Notwithstanding howsoeuer they bee dressed, they comfort, nourish, and strengthen the body, procuring bodily lust, and that with greedinesse." Cindy/Sincgiefu renfrow at skylands.net Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 20:04:34 -0500 From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: Re: SC - German potato soup recipe??? Vanishwood at aol.com wrote: > Doesn't the book The Delectable Past have a 1544 Swiss recipie for Rosti? > > Ethelwulf Three years under the wire! >From "The Delectable Past", 1964 Esther B. Aresty, Simon and Schuster, NYC. : "Let the nobility have their master-chefs. The role of family cook fell more naturally on the Hausfrau, and in 1598 one Swiss cook -- Anna Weckerin -- completed the first cookbook ever written by a woman. A recipe in it bore a close resemblance to Rsti, the delicious sauteed potatoes that are as Swiss as William Tell. For delighted cheers, serve them with your next steak or roast beef. RSTI..." And Aresty proceeds to give an ordinary recipe for Rsti (actually a rather simplified one, turned only once). She does not include the original recipe. At least she gives some documentation so we have a chance of locating the original and checking it against her redaction. I dunno. She uses New World ingredients, it must be wrong...; ) Adamantius Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 00:45:42 +0100 From: Thomas Gloning <Thomas.Gloning at germanistik.uni-giessen.de> Subject: SC - Re: 16th century potato soup recipe? I assume that "white potatoe" is 'solanum tuberosum'. Looking for a 16th/17th potatoe soup recipe, I first checked the index of Hans Wiswe, Kulturgeschichte der Kochkunst. He says, among other things, that potatoes began to be used widespread only in the 18th century, especially as food for the poor (p. 78). However, Wiswe quotes a passage from a work on gardening and the culinary use of garden plants from the year 1648: "Die Kartoffeln werden gewaschen und in Wasser 'muerbe' gekocht. Nunwird das Wasser abgegossen. Man laesst sie abkuehlen. Nun zieht man die'auswendige [aufwendige_Wiswe] Haut' rein davon. Die grossen Kartoffelnschneidet man ein- oder zweimal auseinander, die kleinen laesst manganz. Dann tun man sie wieder in einen Topf, giesst Wein darueber, tutButter, Muskatblumen und anderes Gewuerz sowie Salz daran und laesst siefein uebersieden. Danach richtet man die Speise an und streut Ingwerdarueber" (Hoyer 1648, second ed. 1651; Wiswe p. 125).Wiswe then points us to a similar passage in the 'Diaeteticon' ofElsholtz (1682). Looking up that passage, Elsholtz writes:"Man isset aber diese Tartuffeln theils zur Lust und verenderung/ theilsals eine naehrende Speise/ weil sie nunmehr zimlich gemein bey unsworden" (p. 31/32; "ziemlich gemein" = 'quite common').Checking the electronic Text of Bartholomaeus Huebners 'NeuSpeisebuechlein' (1603) for "Erd-", "Kart-", "Tart-", I did not findanything important in respect to potatoes.Wiswe also mentions potatoes dealing with (Spanish) recipes for Ollapotrida, but the recipe for "Hollapotrida" in Rumpolt (1581, fol.137b-139b) does not mention potatoes.Going on, I checked some dictionaries.Hopf has no entry "Kartoffel", and her entries "Erdapfel" (see RumpoltVorrede 16v), "Erdbirne" do not mean 'solanum tuberosum'. But the entry "Tartuffol" leads us to the "Frauenzimmerlexikon" (1715), where thereare four recipes with potatoes (cols. 1979-1981). Manfred Lemmercomments on these recipes in his "Nachwort" (p. 23): "Wie die Rezeptelehren, wurde die Kartoffel aber damals noch nicht als Beilage zumFleisch genossen, sondern in der Suppe oder als Salat". Now, it isimportant to know, that these lines were written in 1980 by ManfredLemmer, who is also the editor of the facsimile of Marx Rumpolt (1976)and probably one of the few persons who read Rumpolt entirely. I amquite sure that Manfred Lemmer would have mentioned any potatoe recipealready available in the cookery book of Rumpolt. And so would have doneHopf, I assume; she used Rumpolt as one of her source texts for herdictionary.[BTW, I am beginning to transcribe Rumpolt, and maybe in some months oryears we can search this text. Anybody working on the same project,please drop me a line.]The article in the "Deutsches Woerterbuch" (vol. 11, 244f.) says that"Kartoffel" was derived from earlier "Tartuffel". Alas, it does not leadus to early cookery recipes, but to quotations from German poets(Moeser, Schiller) ...I must stop now; maybe I can check some other sources later.To sum up: German recipes with potatoes seem to be first attestedsomewhere in the 17th century. A linguistic problem is that in somecases we don't know if an expression like "Erdapfel" oder "Gruendling"means the potatoe or something else. Up to the 1720ies, there are souppreparations with potatoes. -- If I remember correctly, the firstattestation of potatoes in Germany is from the end of the 16th century:potatoes were part of a medical garden in Norimberg (I don't recall atpresent where I read that). Anyway: a German potatoe soup recipe fromthe 16th century would come as a great surprise for me. ThomasPS.: Please let me know if I should try and translate the Germanpassages into English or (period!) Latin. Settmour Swamp, East (NJ) Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 10:34:23 -0500 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: RE: SC - Citron and Potato Reay Tannehill in Food In History comments that in 1573 the Hospital de la Sangre in Seville ordered potatoes at the same time they did other stocks. Also, while reading Braudel, Civilization and Capitalism, Vol. I, I came across a tidbit which says that potatoes were used to feed the poor in Spain in 1643. Since the white potato was discovered by the Spanish about 1530, a Spanish recipe for them 69 years later isn't surprising, although the sweet potato appears to have been the preferred vegetable. Bear Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 19:19:15 -0400 From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net> Subject: SC - Sweet Potato Recipe This is the other recipe I mentioned. Source: Libro del Arte de Cozina (Spanish, 1599) translation: mine CARNE DE LIMON, Y BATATAS -- Flesh of Lemon and Sweet Potatoes The lemons must be mature, and divided in the middle, and cast them in brine, which should be temperate, and after eight days have passed, remove them and have boiling water, and without washing off the brine, cast them in, and cook them with much fire, until they are extremely tender, and when they are so, set them aside from the fire, and lower them in another [change of] tepid water, and not that in which they were cooked, and hence in a little while, remove them from the water, and wash them very well, and if they should not be very tender, give them another boil, and if it should not be necessary, take them out, and squeeze them, and pound them in a mortar of stone. The sweet potato must be washed in two [changes of] water, and have on the fire a boiler of boiling water, and cast them in, and cook them well, until they are easily peeled, and then clean and pound [them], and then weigh out a pound of sweet potatoes, and another of lemon, and to those, two and a half of sugar, and if you wish them cast in two dozens of almonds, and very well pounded, it will be smoother. When this meat is combined, the sugar must be very clarified, and instantly, not in the manner as for peaches, and it being so, cast it within, and cook on a mild fire, and when the bottom of the kettle is made white, it is cooked, and set it aside from the fire, and cast in your musk, and let it cool a little, and cast it in your boxes, and set them in the sun three or four days, and if you have to make morsels, you do not have to cook it as much as for a box. Note: the mention of peaches seems to refer to an earlier recipe for peach preserves, in which the clarified sugar is allowed to become tepid before the fruit is added. I understand this to mean that you must add the lemon-sweet potato mixture promptly to the clarified sugar while it is still hot, rather than allowing it to cool as it does in the peach recipe. The mention of cooking until the bottom turns white discredits my earlier speculation. When the phrase appeared in the citron recipe, I thought it might be partial proof that the potatoes in question were white. Since the phrase also appears here, in a sweet potato recipe, perhaps it only refers to the syrup turning opaque? Any preserve makers care to comment? This is not an area of cooking I have ever dealt with, in the SCA or in mundane life. Lady Brighid ni Chiarain Settmour Swamp, East (NJ) Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 10:07:23 -0400 From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net> Subject: Re: SC - Citron and Potato And it came to pass on 4 May 99,, that Stefan li Rous wrote: [concerning my translation of CIDRA Y PATATA -- Citron and Potato]: > > > How sure are you that the potato that is meant is the white potato? > > > > I am not certain at all, but I felt that period recipes for any kind of > > potato were rare enough to be of interest. > > Uh oh. Please don't get me wrong. Yes, period recipes for either type of > potato are of interest. It's just a consideration that occurred to me > after hearing comments on this list about potatos previously. I took no offense at the question, my lord. (Print is both a wonderful and a terrible medium for carrying on a discussion.) I just wanted to make clear that I had no certain knowledge about the type of potato used. Of course, since finding the second recipe, some of my thoughts and assumptions have altered. > >One possible clue is that the > > mixture is to be cooked until the stuff at the bottom of the boiler > > turns white. If you were starting with white potato and citron and > > sugar, then I assume the mixture would become more opaque, and look > > whiter. > > Yes, I missed this. I don't see how you could get the orange sweet potato > to go white. ::sigh:: Unfortunately, as you may have read by now, the second recipe blew that theory out of the water. The recipe for "Carne de limon, y batatas" (flesh of lemon, and sweet potatoes) contains the exact same instruction. Now, a couple of things are possible. One is that the *syrup* turns opaque and white, and that would be independant of the color of the other ingredients. Another is that both recipes use white potatoes; there's a lot of room for scribal error between "patata" and "batata". Another possibility is that the direction to let it turn white is a scribal error -- I have seen a recipe for rice which includes the sensible instruction to clean any dirt off it. A sensible precaution, which is taken even today. It was followed immediately by a recipe for noodles bearing the same instruction, which I attribute to scribal error. Or perhaps period sweet potatoes were paler, as I understand carrots were paler? Lady Brighid ni Chiarain Settmour Swamp, East (NJ) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 13:37:30 -0700 From: lilinah at grin.net Subject: SC - I Am What I Yam Lord Stefan li Rous wrote: >I believe we determined earlier on this >list that sweet potatoes were New World. But yams were African. So >I guess if you were considering sweet potatoes a close replacement >for yams, it could be period. I don't eat sweet potatoes or yams, so >I can't say how close they are in taste or texture. There is a problem of terminology when using the word "yam" in the USA, at least. The smooth red skinned, deep golden fleshed tuber commonly called a "sweet potato" and the smooth red skinned but lighter yellow fleshed tuber often called a "yam" in the US are both actually "sweet potatoes", merely variations of the same family of convolvulaceous plants, Ipomoea batatas. According to my dictionary, the word "potato" derives from a word in the Taino language from the Caribbean. Yams are different kinds of starchy tubers, from the climbing vines of the genus Dioscorea (a different genus from Ipomoea, obviously), generally white fleshed with rough brown skins. They grow in a number of different tropical regions, including Asia and the Pacific Islands, in addition to Africa (and there may be some in the South American tropics, too). They can occasionally be found in stores that specialize in Pacific Islands foods, African foods, or Caribbean foods (or here in Northern California, at some supermarkets). According to my dictionary, "yam" comes from West Africa/Senegal nyami, "to eat". In my experience, the cooked flesh is very white, not very flavorful, and has a significantly different texture from Ipomoea batatas, a little gummy. So REAL yams may be African, but they are NOT the yellow sweet potatoes Americans often call yams. They're a whole 'nother animal, errr, i mean, vegetable. Anahita Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 15:02:08 -0500 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: RE: SC - Russian dishes > Do we have > a date for the first use of potatoes for a human food in Europe? > > Lady Katherine McGuire The first written reference to white potatoes occurs in 1553. A specimen brought to Spain from Pizzaro's Peruvian expedition is supposed to have reached Pope Paul III around 1540 and from there been given to a horticulturalist from France. There is evidence that they were used as starvation rations at one of the hospitals in Seville in the 16th Century. And there are supposed to be some late 16th Century German recipes (about which there was an interesting thread several months ago where one of the cited sources apparently does not have the stated recipe, IIRC). There is some conflict about when the white potato came into general use. It may have been used in Western Europe to replace crops destroyed during the Thirty Years War, but learned debates from the same period suggest that the potato was in use but not common fare. During the 18th Century, potatoes became common fare in much of Europe. Russia was a late adopter of the potato and it was forced on the Russian peasantry by armed troops, probably so the nobles could export more grain. The increased use of the potato as poverty fare would be consistent with Braudel's documentation of a trend of falling wages and rising food prices from the late 16th Century to the late 19th Century. In any event, the white potato was common peasant fare across Europe by the 19th Century just in time to start mass immigrations to the United States during the potato famines of the 1840's. Bear Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 12:23:59 -0500 (EST) From: Gretchen M Beck <grm+ at andrew.cmu.edu> Subject: Re: SC - potatoes > I have been told by several different people that potatoes are not period, > but if latkes are period, how can potatoes not be? The Jews have been eating > them for centuries and they (the Jews) were in all countries. I would really > like some clarification. Thanks! I don't know about latkes, but I found the following reference in a cookbook called Green on Greens : Ein NeuKochbuch (A NewCookbook), compiled and printed on Gutenberg's press in 1581, contains the first annotated German recipes; and there are a dozen potato dishes listed among them. One, suprisingly enough, is a very tasty baked tart. toodles, margaret Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 01:56:15 +0100 From: Thomas Gloning <Thomas.Gloning at germanistik.uni-giessen.de> Subject: SC - potatoes <<< Given the date, are these likely to be white potatoes, or are they probably the sweet kind? Christianna 3. Side Dish (Period POTATOES) Another. (Lancelot de Casteau, ca. 1604) Take the sliced potatoes and let them stew in butter (...) >>> The original text is: "Autrement. [= Tartoufle autrement; the third of four recipes for "tartoufle"] Prennez la tartoufle par tranches, & mettez esteuuer auec beurre, mariolaine haschee, du persin: puis prennez quatre ou cinq iaulnes d'oeuf battus auec vn peu de vin, & iettez le dessus tout en bouillant, & tirez arriere du feu, & seruez ainsi" (Lancelot de Casteau, Ouverture de cuisine, Lige 1604, p.95). Lo Moulin and Jacques Kother in the facsimile of Lancelot de Casteau's 'Ouverture de cuisine' (repr. Anvers & Bruxelles 1983) held the view that potatoes were ment: "Ces quatre recettes de pomme de terre constituent une des plus prcieuses rvlations du livre de Lancelot de Casteau" (p.255). They quote some evidence for their position, but as far as I can see, some of the quoted texts are also uncertain. In the 'Ouverture de cuisine', there are four recipes with "tartoufle" (p.94-95), a translation into modern French on p. 254-257 together with a long note, and an entry in the glossary (p. 296-7, note 29), including a reference to: Lo Moulin: La Belgique table. L'art de manger en Belgique. Antwerpen (Esco Books) 1979, 15-22, for the diffusion of potatoes in Europe. I must leave you with that. Thomas Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 08:25:10 -0600 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: RE: SC - potatoes > Were Potatoes being cultivated in Tennessee that early? My vague > memory, I think from something in _Guns, Germs and Steel_, is that > the South American food plants moved north very slowly. > > David/Cariadoc I believe the general evidence is white potatoes were isolated in the Incan empire until the Spanish arrived. Although Gerard described the "Viginia potato," it appears to have been a very recent import from South America, either left by Drake when he rescued the survivors of the Roanoke Colony during his return voyage to England after the sack of Cartegena (1586) or, more likely, brought to England by him, then re-introduced to Virginia in 1587 when Richard Grenville re-established the colony. Bear Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 09:01:48 -0600 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: RE: SC - potatoes > Bear said: > Although Gerard described the "Viginia potato," it appears to have been a > very recent import from South America, either left by Drake when he rescued > the survivors of the Roanoke Colony during his return voyage to England > after the sack of Cartegena (1586) or, more likely, brought to England > by him, then re-introduced to Virginia in 1587 when Richard Grenville > re-established the colony. > Arent girasols native to the american east coast? that would fit the > bill of 'virginia potato" > margali > [yummmm, jerusalem artichoke-I wonder how they would be for latkes?] Gerard was describing Solanum tuberosum (the white potato) which he called Batata virginian sive Virginianorum et Pappus. Considering the naming convention, Gerard was either aware of the Spanish literature on potatoes or was relating it to Ipomoea batatas, the sweet potato, or both. Jerusalem artichokes (Helianthus tuberosus) are a sunflower root as the name girasol attests, being an archaic Italian word meaning sunflower. I doubt that Gerard and his fellow botanists confused the two tubers. Not much was done with potatoes in the Colonies until the 18th Century, but the Jerusalem artichoke was one of the chief survival foods for the Jamestown colony. Bear Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 04:12:35 +0100 From: Thomas Gloning <gloning at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE> Subject: SC - Help with 1650s+ info: potatoes (long) It seems that the use of potatoes became _widespread_ in Europe somewhen in the 17th and 18th centuries, depending on the region. But the earliest culinary uses and experiments in Europe are known since the 16th century. Here is some further material: 1. Potatoes were cultivated in mid-17th century England Gnter Wiegelmann, in his excellent book 'Alltags- und Festspeisen [Dishes for everyday and dishes for feasts]' (Marburg 1967) has an important chapter on potatoes. He says among other things: - -- "Der feldm 0?ige Anbau war in England schon in der Mitte des 17. Jahrhunderts - nach dem Vorbild Irlands - blich geworden und in den Niederlanden auch seit 1670 bekannt" (p.76). - -- Roughly: 'The cultivation [of potatoes] on fields was common in England as early as in the mid-17th century (after the model of Ireland) and was known in the Netherlands since 1670'. He metions three books to back up this statement: - -- Fuess, W.F.K.: Die Geschichte der Kartoffel [The history of the potato], Berlin 1939, 57-62 - -- Salaman, R.N., The history and the social influence of the potato. Cambridge 1949, 188ff. - -- J.A. van Houtte, Economische en sociale geschiedenis van de Lage Landen, Antwerpen 1964, 172. 2. Potatoes in butter 1591 Not a recipe but a description how potatoes were cooked can be found in a letter of the Landgraf Wilhelm IV von Hessen to the Kurfrst Christian I. von Sachsen in 1591 (quoted from Wiegelmann p. 76 in his potato-chapter): - -- "Wir uberschicken auch E.L. Under andern ein gewechse so wir Vor wenig Jahren au? Italia becommen, Und Taratouphli genandt wirdt (...) Undenn ahn der wurzelnn hatt es Viele tubera henkenn, dieselbige wenn sie gekocht werden, seindt sie gar anmutig zu e?en, Mann mu? sie aber erstlich im Wasser uffsieden la?enn, so gehen die oberste schalens ab, darnach thutt mann die bruhe darvonn, Undt seudt sie in butter Vollendes gahr". - -- Roughly: 'We also send to your Highness among other things a plant that we got from Italy some years ago, called Taratouphli (...) Below, at the root, there hang many tubers. If they are cooked these tubers are very good to eat. But you must first boil them in water, so that the outer shell (peeling?) gets off, then pour the cooking water away, and cook them to the point in butter'. -- The article in the "Deutsches Woerterbuch" (vol. 11, 244f.) says that "Kartoffel" was derived from earlier "Tartuffel". 3. Spiced potatoes 1648 Hans Wiswe, in his 'Kulturgeschichte der Kochkunst', says, among other things, that potatoes began to be used _widespread_ only in the 18th century, especially as food for the poor (p.78). However, Wiswe quotes or rather paraphrases a passage from a work on gardening and the culinary use of garden plants from the year 1648: - -- "Die Kartoffeln werden gewaschen und in Wasser 'muerbe' gekocht. Nun wird das Wasser abgegossen. Man laesst sie abkuehlen. Nun zieht man die 'auswendige [aufwendige_Wiswe] Haut' rein davon. Die grossen Kartoffeln schneidet man ein- oder zweimal auseinander, die kleinen laesst man ganz. Dann tun man sie wieder in einen Topf, giesst Wein darueber, tut Butter, Muskatblumen und anderes Gewuerz sowie Salz daran und laesst sie fein uebersieden. Danach richtet man die Speise an und streut Ingwer darueber" (Hoyer 1648, second ed. 1651; Wiswe p. 125). - -- Roughly: 'Wash the potatoes and boil them well-cooked. Let cool down. Put away the outer skin. Cut the big potatoes once or twice, the smaller ones must not be cut. Then put them into a pot again, add wine, butter, mace and other spices and salt and let boil. Then serve it forth and sprinkle with ginger'. 4. Potatoes are 'quite common' in 1682 Wiswe points us to an interesting passage in the 'Diaeteticon' of Elsholtz (1682). Looking up that passage, Elsholtz writes: - -- "Man isset aber diese Tartuffeln theils zur Lust und verenderung/ theils als eine naehrende Speise/ weil sie nunmehr zimlich gemein bey uns worden" (p. 31/32). - -- Roughly: 'These potatoes ("tartuffeln") are eaten as a dish of pleasure and a dish of variety, but also as a nutritive dish. They are now quite common here'). 5. Potatoes in 'Olla podrida'? Wiswe also mentions potatoes dealing with (Spanish) recipes for Olla potrida, but the recipe for "Hollapotrida" in Rumpolt (1581, fol. 137b-139b) does not mention potatoes. Nor does the recipe for Olla podrida of Hernndez de Maceras 1607. 6. Four potato-recipes in the 'Frauenzimmerlexikon' (1715) In the "Frauenzimmerlexikon [Lexicon for and about women]" (1715), there are four recipes with potatoes (cols. 1979-1981). Manfred Lemmer comments on these recipes in his "Nachwort" (p. 23): "Wie die Rezepte lehren, wurde die Kartoffel aber damals noch nicht als Beilage zum Fleisch genossen, sondern in der Suppe oder als Salat" (potato was used only in soups and as salad). Now, it is important to know, that these lines were written in 1980 by Manfred Lemmer, who is also the editor of the facsimile of Marx Rumpolt (1976) and probably one of the few persons who read Rumpolt entirely. I am quite sure that Manfred Lemmer would have mentioned any potatoe recipe already available in the cookbook of Rumpolt. -- I read somewhere that an old potatoe recipe might be in the second edition of Rumpolt (15