potatoes-msg

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potatoes-msg - 10/13/13

Period white and sweet potato use. Recipes.

NOTE: See also the files: turnips-msg, vegetables-msg, beets-msg, onions-msg, leeks-msg, root-veg-msg.

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Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 06:16:35 -0500 (CDT)

From: alysk at ix.netcom.com (Elise Fleming )

Subject: SC - Re: Yams/Sweet Potatoes

Linnea wrote:

>I have heard that Henry VIII liked sweet potatoes, or yams (which are

>different - one being a root the other a tuber) and ate them often.

>Any comments, recipies or information? I assume that the "they" who

>say this are refering to the African yam and not the New World sweet

>potato. They are similar, hence the trend to call both by the other's

>name.

I just purchased at Pennsic the delightful book _America's First

Cuisines_ by the knowledgeable and reputable Sophie Coe. She gives

some background on yams/sweet potatoes and their transport into Europe.

The sweet potato (Ipomoea batatas) is different from the yam (either

Dioscorea batatas or Dioscorea trifida) and her contention is that the

taste was so different that one would not have been mistaken for the

other. (If you have the book, it's on pp. 19-20).

She mentions that there are 3 kinds of sweet potatoes in the US today:

"an old-fashioned white kind, a hardy dry yellowy kind, and a moist,

sweet, dark orange kind, miscalled a yam." She then gives (above) the

botanical name for yam. "With the New World yams we will have nothing

further to do, except to say that if they are the 'ages' or n~ames"

Columbus and his successors found in the West Indies, they were

considered inferior to sweet potatoes, a quick-growing food fit only

for servants and slaves."

They apparantly were rare even in Spain through the late 1500s. I have

(somewhere) two recipes for using "potatoes" but can only recall having

seen two. Memory says that the recipes are in books from the late

1500s or mid-1600s. Ms. Coe gives some of the background on the spread

of various New World foodstuffs. Some went via Asia and became popular

there before the Europeans embraced that particular food. Some went to

Africa to become a staple before the Europeans ate the same food in any

quantity.

From her comments, she indicates that it is the sweet potato that was

popular, not the "yam" which is a different botanical plant...Although

we, to our infinite confusion, call "sweet potatoes" "yams". Go

figure! :-)

Alys Katharine, still doing loads of laundry from Pennsic. Anyone want

some dried-out bugs??

Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 18:08:02 -0400

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Re: sca-cooks V1 #346

John and Barbara Enloe wrote:

> There are numerous documentations for potatoes in late period (last 25 or

> so years).

> jon

What there is, is _some_ documentation, not especially numerous,

suggesting that sweet potatoes were occasionally eaten in late period,

particularly in Spain, Portugal, and England, more or less as a novelty.

That doesn't mean that white Virginia potatoes were typical of the

cuisines of Medieval Europe, even if the documentation that exists for

sweet potatoes did, in fact, refer to white ones, which are botanically

very different.

It can get confusing, because sweet potatoes are almost invariably

referred to as simply "potatoes", until years later , when it became

necessary to use the qualifiers of "sweet" and "Virginia" or "white". It

is primarily the various illustrated herbals that make it quite clear

that what they call potatoes are actually sweet potatoes.

Adamantius

Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 09:20:09 -0500

From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>

Subject: RE: SC - Late-period is NOT Medieval

>Technically, perhaps. Although I am more inclined to view sweet potatoes as

>the more accurate potato.

>Ras

Richard Hakluyt (1552? - 1616) comments on the superior taste of the

sweet potato, which suggests that he ate them within period. There is

no evidence he converted anyone else to his view of the vegetable.

Bear

Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 18:19:34 -0400 (EDT)

From: Bronwynmgn at aol.com

Subject: SC - Fwd: Addition to potato debate from Rialto discussion

<< C. Kevin Kellogg (kellogg at rohan.sdsu.edu) wrote:

: VJARMSTRONG (VJARMSTRONG at UALR.EDU) wrote:

: : Mentioned in herbals but what context? Surely not as a food item at that

: : early date, more likely simply as plant oddities from the New World.

: Unfortunately that site, as wonderful as it is, does not

Well, I looked for biographic data on Clusius in SDSU's library.

I couldn't come up with much. Everyone agrees that he had something to

do with potatoes (the Enclyclopaedia Britannica is more interested in

crediting (blaming?) him for tulips in Holland).

I did, however, find the interesting book, _The History and

Social Influence of the Potato_, by Redcliffe Salaman, 1949, Cambridge

University Press.

He quotes John Gerard's 1599 herbal:

...The roote is thicke, fat, and tuberous; not much differing

either in shape, colour, or taste from the common Potatoes

[this in reference to Peruvian sweet potatoes], saving that

the roots hereof are not so great nor long; ...

This, to me, indicates that at least Gerard ate a potato

prior to 1600, otherwise he could not have commented on it's taste.

Salaman also quotes from a translation of Gaspard Bauhin's

1596 _Phytopinax_:

...The root if of an irregular round shape; it is either

brown or reddish-black, and one digs them up in the winter

lest they should rot, so full are they of sugar. ...

... We have further learnt that this plant is also known

under the name of tartuffli, doubtless because of its

tuberous root, seeing that this is the name by which

one speaks of Truffles in Italy, where one eats these

fruits in a similar fashion to truffles.

This would indicate that the Frenchman Bauhin believed

that the italians were eating potatoes prior to 1600.

Salaman quotes from a translation of the _Theatre d'

Agriculture et Mesnage des Champs_ by Olivier de Serres, published

in 1600.

This shrub, called Cartoufle, bears a fruit of the same

name comparable to truffles, and is so called by some.

It came from Switzerland to the Dauphine, a short time

ago. ... One keeps them during the winter in sand...

Some do not trouble to layer this plant, but let it grow

and fruit at its will, harvesting the crop in due season,

but the tubers do not do so well in the air as in the

ground, thus conforming to the habit of true truffles,

which the cartoufle resembles in shape, though not so well

in colour, as they are lighter than truffles! The skin

not being rough but smooth and moveable. That is the

difference between these fruits. As to the taste, the cook

so dresses all of them so that one can recognize little

difference between them.

So here we have another reference to eating potatoes in

the fashion of truffles.

Carolus Clusius (remember him, this was supposed to be about him)

wrote in his 1601 _Historia Rariorum plantarum_:

... The first mention I recieved of this plant is ... toward

the beginning of the year 1588, ... The Italians do not know

whence they first obtained it, but it is certain that they

got it either from Spain or America. ...although it was so

common and frequent in certain parts of Italy, for it is

said that they used to eat the tubers of it cooked with mutton

in the same manner as they do with turnips and the roots of

carrots. They actually employed it for fodder for pigs.

... But now it has become sufficiently common in many gardens

in Germany since it is so fecund.

I think this is enough evidence to support the eating of

potatoes for very late period German, French, Italian, English,

and Swiss personas, cooked either in the manner of root vegetables

or truffles.

Avenel Kellough

Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 15:02:12 -0500 (EST)

From: Mark Schuldenfrei <schuldy at abel.MATH.HARVARD.EDU>

Subject: Re: SC - Deletable PC stuff, only partly to do with food.

potatos aren't period.

margali

I know this was said in gest.... but someone on the Meridiean list made me

aware of an exception..... Let me find it.

Mistress Falada had written"

Just an FYI - Dame Fiona has a period (yes, period) recipe for potatoes.

And before anyone jumps me: I know that the white potatoes we have

today are not the black, oily period variety. However, I have yet

to see the period type any place that I could purchase them. Therefore,

substitutions should be acceptable.

Anyway, Dame Fiona's documentation was good enough to be accepted at her

Grand Chef qualification feast. If anyone is interested, I am sure she

would be glad to share the information.

And later, Dame Fiona herself said:

Second, as far as the potatoes are concerned, the recipe was

published in a German cookbook in 1598. To describe the dish I

would simply have to say "hashbrowns". Is this the same recipe you

are referring to Tibor? Variations of the recipe are available in

many modern cookbooks, but I got it from an English translation of

the original recipe. It is called "Rosti".

Tibor

Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 15:55:07 -0600

From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>

Subject: RE: SC - Period Potatoes

>I had seen that comment before that "Potatoes aren't period" but I don't

>see how this is possible. There were Irish people living during Medival

>times, and potatoes in Ireland are a STAPLE food! In fact, I saw on TLC

>once, where hundreds of thousands of Irish men women and children starved to

>death at one point (sorry, it was a few months ago, and I dont' remember the

>date cited) because of a blight brought in from England that destroyed ALL

>the potato crops on the Island. It left the poor with nothing (as the show

>stated it , "not very little to eat but NOTHING to eat") to eat for many

>months, and the population was devastated. I'm far from an expert in

>Medival cooking, but I do not see how potatoes could be anything but period!

>-Laurene

Pardon what may be perceived as a lecture tone, but it's the fastest way

to dump all these facts, which, in this case, are mainly lifted from

James Trager's Foodbook, some of his dates and interpretations are open

to question, but he seems pretty solid on the generally agreed upon

facts.

The white potato and the sweet potato are both New World in origin, so

no potatoes in Europe before 1492. Yams which look like sweet potatoes

are a different species of plant and were common in Asia and Africa.

Gonzalo Jimenez de Quesada found white potatoes being eaten in tha Andes

approximately 1530 C.E. These were apparently shaped like peanuts and

between the size of peanuts and plums. The first written reference to

potatoes is in Pedro de Leon's Cronica del Peru, circa 1553. In general

in the New World, the sweet potato was preferred over the white potato

in size and taste.

The Germans were probably the first Europeans to regularly eat potatoes.

The earliest known recipes appear in Ein Neu Kochbuch, circa 1581. A

century later Frederick William forceable spread the planting of

potatoes in Brandenburg. Fifty years after that, Frederick the Great

spread seeds and cultivation instructions in Prussia.

Apocryphally, Sir Walter Raleigh introduced the potato to England and

grew them on his estates. In 1663, the Royal Society urged the planting

of potatoes to prevent famine with little success. By 1770, they were a

cash crop, sold in the public markets of Britain. They became the basis

of the Irish diet late in the 18th century.

The Great Irish Potato Famine occurred 1845-49. Interestingly, in the

1840s potato famines appear to have been international, affecting every

country dependent upon potatoes. The Irish famine is remembered because

the British government by its inaction used a natural disaster to rid

itself of the problem of the Irish.

Potatoes are mentioned in two of William Shakespeare's plays; The Merry

Wives of Windsor, circa 1600, and Trolius and Cressida, circa 1601.

From the dates, you can plainly see that the existence of potatoes and

the knowledge of potatoes is period. What isn't period is the eating of

potatoes in Europe. While some adventurous souls probably tried them,

they would not have been common to a pre-1600 European feast. The

exception to this, may be Germany, because of the cookbook noted above.

Bear

Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 20:10:51 -0600

From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>

Subject: RE: SC - Period Potatoes

>Can anyone provide the quotes? Gods only know where my copy of Shakespeare

>has gotten to....

>Alasdair mac Iain

>James and/or Nancy Gilly

>katiemorag at worldnet.att.net

Let the sky rain potatoes.

The Merry Wives of Windsor (Act V, Scene 5)

How the devil Luxury, with his fat rump and potato-finger, tickles these

together.

Trolius and Cressida (Act V, Scene 2)

The references are probably to sweet potatoes, but it suggests that the

public was probably familiar with the sweet potato even if they didn't

eat it.

Another interesting comment, this from Reay Tannehill's Food in History,

is that in 1573 the Hospital de la Sangre in Seville ordered potatoes at

the same time they did other stocks. Which suggests that potatoes were

being used in Spain, though they may not have been common.

The information is attributed to Salaman, R.N.; The History and Social

Influence of the Potato. I believe this book has been previously been

noted on the list. It is supposed to be the seminal work on the history

of the potato.

Bear

Date: Fri, 7 Nov 1997 22:56:03 -0500 (EST)

From: LrdRas at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - Re: Peanuts, Sweet Potatoes, Etc.

<< Query: "Accepted theory" by whom? Where cited?

Query: "At least 2 centuries before their arrival in Europe" What

date would that make it? The 1500s or earlier? >>

History of Food, Maguelonne Toussaint-Samat (Translated by Anthea Bell); pg.

65.

"The sweet potatoe comes from the equatorial forests of America. A widely

traveled tuber, it reached Polynesia two thousand years ago, and helps to

clarify the problem of contacts between the Pacific Islands and the north

coast of South America. It is an additional proof that Melano-Polynesian

migrations took place in ancient times. Until quite recently it was thought

that the sweet potato was introduced into Africa at the beginning of the

slave trade. We now have to put that date back several centuries, without

knowing how or why it got there. Perhaps across the Pacific, as the intrepid

Polynesian canoeists made their return journey from the coasts of Ecuador or

Columbia to the archipelagos, then on to either Malaysia and South-est Asia

or to East Africa by way of Madagascar. Maize, groundnuts, peppers and

cassava are thought to have accompanied the sweet potato. The coconut palm,

the banana tree and the taro ( a huge root known to the Romans) are also

believed to have travelled in the canoes, together with agricultural

techniques which are remarkably similar in all tropical regions (including

hoeing, brush fires, terrace cultivation and long fallow periods,

.......etc."

Ras

Date: Sat, 8 Nov 1997 12:20:41 -0600 (CST)

From: alysk at ix.netcom.com (Elise Fleming )

Subject: SC - Potatoes (Sweet, Etc.)-LONG

Greetings! Here is some more fodder for discussion. At the end,

Sophie Coe discusses what happened with Gerard and his Herbal. One of

her comments (near the end) would lead to the conclusion that there is

no place in SCA feasts for white potatoes.

Sophie Coe on potatoes, sweet potatoes, and yams: Excerpts from her

book _Americaís First Cuisines_.

(p. 19) "The history of the potato is inextricably mixed with the

history of the sweet potato and that of several other plants as well.

If anyone has doubts as to the utility and necessity of Latin names,

let this be a lesson for them, because the common names, ë[a[así,

ëbatatasí, ëpapatasí, give us only the vaguest idea of what is being

talked about."...

(p. 19) "This being the case we must define our terms. By pototo I

mean the tubers of 'Sonanum tuberosum' and other species of 'Solanum.'

By sweet potato, or 'batata', I mean the thickened roots of 'Ipomoea

batatas'. There are three kinds of sweet potatoes eaten in the United

States today, an old-fashioned white kind, a hardy dry yellow kind, and

a moist, sweet, dark orange kind, miscalled a yam. True yams are

members of the Dioscoridae family, among them one unfortunately named

'Dioscorea batatas' but domesticated in the Old World, and another

named 'Dioscorea trifida', a New World domesticate. With the New World

yams we will have nothing further to do, except to say that if they

were the 'ages' or 'n~ames' Columbus and his successors found in the

West Indies, they were considered inferior to sweet potatoes, a

quick-growing food fit only for servants and slaves."

(p. 20) "The New World history of the sweet potato is complex. The

Uto-Aztecan word 'camotli' seems to be the root of all the words found

for it in the Pacific area, for the sweet potato is found not only in

the New World but also in Polynesia, from Hawaii to Easter Island to

New Zealand.....the sweet potato could have been taken to Polynesia,

either deliberately or on the drifting boat so beloved by the

diffusionists. Polynesians could also have fetched it, although such

visitors were probably much more in danger of being turned into

foodstuffs themselves than returning with novel foodstuffs. The third

possible scenario is that the sweet potato did not stop in Spain when

it arrived there after Columbus but continued its eastward journey, so

that when explorers got to Polynesia in the eighteenth century the

sweet potato had had time to become thoroughly embedded in the culture.

However, when there was a famine in Fukien province in 1593, the

Chinese authorities sent a mission to the island of Luzon to find new

food plants. The commission returned the following year with a new

food plant, the sweet potato, which remains to this day the food of the

indigent in China. The Philippines were of course in contact with

Mexico via the Manila galleons which sailed from Acapulco to Manila and

may have brought sweet potatoes as they brought many other New World

plants."

(p. 21) "The potato, 'Solanum tuberosum' and allies, did not travel as

swiftly as the sweet potato, even if we reject the possibility that the

sweet potato could make it from Spain to the Philippine island of Luzon

in less than a century. The potato was not even seen by the Europeans

until the 1530s, when they conquered the cold highlands of Colombia and

Peru. That is to say, cultivated potatoes were not seen by the

Europeans until that time. More than two hundred species of wild

tuber-bearing potatoes exist in the New World, growing from the state

of Colorado in the United States south to Chile and Argentina, but if

the Europeans ever noticed anybody eating them, they did not record

it."

(p.21) "There was a flurry of descriptions of the potato in the

herbals of the late sixteenth century. It was at this time that the

British botanist Gerard planted the seeds, or perhaps one should say

the potato eyes, of trouble when he confused 'Solanum tuberosum' from

South America with 'Apios tuberosa', the ground nut, which was eaten by

Indians and early colonists in Virginia. For years the

English-speaking world called 'Solanum tuberosum' the Virginia potato

and thought it came from Virginia and had been domesticated there, even

though there were no wild potatoes to be found there, nor any

domesticated ones either."

(p. 23) "After this almost everybody in Europe lost interest in the

potato for several hundred years. The one place it did take root was

Ireland, where the seventeenth-century diarist John Evelyn knew it as

the Irish potato and thought it an acquired taste, only suitable for

the poor, or for the servants when it was necessary to reduce expenses

(Evelny 1818, 2:292)."

Alys K.

Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 23:02:08 -0600

From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>

Subject: SC - Pototoes - LONG POST

WARNING -- Long post on the natural history of the potato. Fuel for the

fire, but no recipes for the cooking, unless you want to count being

cooked with mutton in the manner of turnips and carrots as a recipe

(Italy pre-1601 with caveats).

I went looking for a copy of Salaman's The History and Social Influence

of the Potato. I didn't find it, but I did find Stuart, William; The

Potato, Its Culture, Uses, History, and Classifications; J.B.

Lippincott, New York, 1937. Stuart was the Chief Horticulturist for the

USDA and the book was written as an ag-school text book. The chapter on

the history of the potato has a number of interesting quotes, a few of

which I'll reproduce here.

The first published description of the potato is in Bauhin, Caspar;

Phytopinax, 1596:

<quote>

The stem is in the form of a stalk about one and one-half to two feet in

length; fruit in the shape of a golden apple, nearly round,.....stem

green, somewhat branched, nevertheless it sometimes reaches the height

of a man.....Leaves about the length of the hand, rough on the under

side with pale hair. Much divided into six, eight or more or less

parts; like single leaves, to the number of which an odd one is always

added; round to oblong, simple, arranged opposite and there are usually

two, six or more small leaves interspersed along the leaf stalk.

The branches are usually divided into two stalks, each of which bears

many flowers, some closed and three or four open, ranging from blue to

purplish, spreading out into five points which somewhat greenish-yellow

lines traverse and divide; in the centre there are usually bunched four

reddish stamens, as in Malum insanum.

The flowers are succeeded by single round fruits, hanging on long stems,

like a cluster, as in Solanum vulgare, but far larger; for some of them

equal a nut (probably a walnut) in size; some of them indeed grow no

larger than a filbert, all nevertheless striped with equal lines, like

the Malum aureum, which range from green to blackish and, when mature,

to a dark red Iprobably a purplish-black). In these the seed is small,

flat and round, somewhat swarthy.

The root is round, but not circular, of a swarthy of dark red color; it

is taken up from the earth in the winter time and is returned to the

earth in the spring.

At the base of the stem, at the head of the main root, long fibrous

roots are spread out, on some of which small round roots are borne

(tubers).

We name this Solanum because of certain form of its leaves and of the

fruit, which is like Malum aureum; then of the flowers, which are like

Malum insanum; then, of its seed, which corresponds to the Solani; and

finally, on account of the unpleasant odor of it, common to the Solani.

In giving his source of information, Bauhin says:

The seed was sent under the name of papas of the Spainards, and

originally of the Indians, which grew easily in our garden almost like a

leafy shrub, as in the garden of Dr. Martin Chmielecius, who had one

with a white blossom. On account of our long standing friendship, Dr.

Laurentius Scholtzius, a physician, sent me a drawing of a plant that he

had grown in his garden, sketched in colors, but without fruit, and the

root appendages.

Gerard in his 1596 catalog refers to the potato as Papas orbiculatus.

In the Herball of 1597, he calls the potato Batata virginiana sine

Virginanorum et Papus (Potatoes of Virginia).

The following comments are from Wight, W.F.; Origin, introduction and

primative culture of the potato. Proceedings of the Third Annual

Meeting of the Potato Association of America, Nineteen Sixteen; 35-52,

1917.

<quote>

The idea that the potato was introduced from Virginia into England, is,

however, so prevalent in literature that it should have some

consideration, even though the claim is not made that the potato was

native to Virginia. Few, in fact, have believed that it was cultivated

by the Indians previous to the era of European exploration and

settlement; and no evidence has ever been brought forward, so far as I

am aware, in support of such a contention. The conclusion in regard its

introduction from Virginia rests solely on the assumption that the root

(called by the Indians Openauk), described by Thomas Hariot in A Brief

and True Report of the New Found Land of Virginia, first printed in

London in 1588, is the potato; and is also the plant described by Gerard

in his Herball issued in 1598. Hariot says: "These roots are found in

moist and marshy grounds, growing many together in ropes as though they

were fastened by string." He states that they grew naturally or wild,

which would be improbable if they were potatoes introduced after the

discovery. The description also applies better to Apios tuberosa, the

ground nut, than it does to the potato. Furthermore, the Indians would

scarcely have had a distinctive name for a plant so recently introduced.

We may assume, from the evidence at hand as to the improbability of the

potato being known, and still less cultivated in Virginia at that time,

if Raleigh's vessels in charge of Sir Francis Drake did bring the potato

to England on the date mentioned, they must have secured it from some

South American trading vessel, or at a point other than Virginia.

Wight's comments on Gerard's inconsistencies:

<quote>

It is curious, if Gerard had the plant described by Hariot, that he did

not use his name (Openauk) instead of a word which is not known to have

occurred in the Indian language within the present border of the United

States or Canada. The question of how Gerard came by the word 'papas'

may be settled with reasonable certainty, for he says: "It groweth

naturally in America where it was first discovered, as reporteth C.

Clusius.....It is doubtful if Clusius would have reported anything

concerning the potato before he recieved the tubers, which was in 1588,

two years after Hariot's return from America; yet Gerard says: "since

which time (referring to the statement of Clusius) he had received roots

from Virginia," and this would indicate that he must have received roots

from some other voyage. The figure in the Herball is in two parts, and

it may be doubted if the tubers figured are potatoes, at least this part

of the figure, for some reason, is changed in Johnson's edition of the

Herball in 1636.

Clucius, C.; Rariorum Plantarum Historia: 79, Chap. LII, 1601:

Clucius gives a description of Papas Perunorum.

<quote>

There is an edible root of a new plant, which but a few years ago was

not known in Europe.....It springs at first from a bulb, which, with us,

startsinto growth about April, not later; within a few days after

planting it puts forth leaves of a dark purplish color, hairy, which,

presently unfolding, show a green color; 5, 7, or more leaflets on the

same stem, not very different from the radish, always of an odd number,

some smaller leaves being interspersed, and the odd one always occupying

the extreme tip of the petiole. The stem is of the thickness of the

thumb, angular, and covered with down. From the axils of the petiols

coarse stalks appear, angular pedicels, bearing 10 to 12 or more flowers

about an inch or more across, angular, consisting of one piece, but so

folded that there appear to be five seperate leaves, of a whitish-purple

on the outside,inside purplish, with five green rays appearing from the

centre like a star, with yellow stamens gathered together in the centre,

and a prominent greenish style. After the flowers, which bear an odor

resembling the odor of the flowers of the linden, roundish apples

appear, not much different from the fruit of the mandrake, only smaller,

green at first, white at maturity; full of juicy pulp which contain many

flat seeds scarecely larger than the seeds of the fig.

When in the month of November, the plant is dug after the first frosts,

there are discovered tubers of various sizes. These are uneven,

recognized by certain marks whence, the following year, shoots will

start forth. I remember, also, that there were collected more than 50

tubers from one single plant, some so large that they weigh an ounce or

even two, the outside skin reddish or approaching a purple color, some

small, as though not yet mature; they have a whitish skin which is very

tender in all the tubers, but the flesh itself is firm and white.

From the tubers alone therefore, we must expect the preservation of the

genus, and from the seed, the daughter plants of which, in the same

year, bear blossoms, but of a different color from the mother plant. So

I have learned from others, though I have never tried the experiment

myself. True it is my friend Johannes Hogeladius described plants to me

produced from the seed which I sent him, which produced white blossoms

altogether. I received the first authentic information about this plant

from Phillipus de Sivry, Dn. de Walhain and the Prefect of the City of

Mons in Hannonia, of the Belgians, who sent two tuber of it, with its

fruit, to me in Vienna, Austria, at the beginning of the year 1587, and

in the following year, a drawing of the branch with a flower. He wrote

that he had received it the preceeding year from a certain employee of

the Pontifical Legation in Belgium. Later Jacobs Garerus, Jr., sent me

a Frankfort drawing of a whole saltk, with roots. Indeed, I have much

desired to exhibit the whole plant here, but I have taken pains to

portray it in two drawings from the living plant--one representing

flowers and fruit, the other roots and tubers clinging to their own

fibers.

The Italians do not know where they were first produced. Certain it is,

however, that they were obtained either from Spain or from America. It

is a great wonder to me that, when it was so common and frequent in

Italian settlements (so they say), that they feast upon these tubers,

cooked with the flesh of mutton, in the same manner as upon turnip and

carrots, they give themselves the advantage of such nourishment, and

allow the news of the plant to reach us in such an off-hand way. Now,

indeed, in many gardens of Germany it is quite common because it is very

fruitful.

Stuart's comments:

<quote>

It is apparent to the reader that there are some inconsistencies in the

description of the potato by both Bauhin and Clusius. Take for example

Bauhin's description of the fruits, which he says are dark red when

mature. In many of the varieties from South America which have come

under our observation, the mature fruits are a dark purplish-black or

dark bluish-green black, whereas in all varieties that are classified

under groups 1 to 12 in Chapter XII they are a light lemon-yellow color

when mature.

In view of this fact, we may accept Bauhin's description of the color an

not entirely inaccurate. It requires some imagination on the other hand

to accept Clusius's statement that the odor of the potato flower

resembles that of the linden. His description of the mature fruits

would indicate that the variety he had was different from that of

Bauhin's. The accuracy of obnservation of Clusius is well indicated in

his description of the color of the tubers in which he says "some small,

as though not yet mature, they have a whitish skin." This observation

has been repeatedly verified in studying a number of tuber-bearing

species of Solanum from Mexico. The immature tubers very frequently do

not show color, whereas when they mature, several species have always

developed a purplish color.

<quote>

While we have little definite knowledge as to how extensively the potato

was cultivated prior to the seventeenth century, we can safely assume

that it had not yet emerged from the curiosity or novelty stage in its

development as a staple food plant, although Clusius says that it is

reported to be more or less commony grown in Italy, and further remarks

that, because of its fruitfulness, it is quite commonly grown in many

gardens of Germany. Despite these statements of Clusius, the fact

remains that the potato was little grown in Europe before the latter

part of the seventeenth century, and, in fact, did not become of great

commercial importance until the later half of the eighteenth century.

searching for an ocean route to India and its fabled treasures of gold,

silver, spices and jewels. They found them on these two new

continents, North and South America, but they found many other

things far more valuable, including three of the world' s most

important food plants: corn, the white or Irish potato, and the sweet

potato.

Being a tropical plant, the sweet potato probably was found before the

Irish potato -- by Columbus in the West Indies, by Balboa in Central

America, and by Pizarro in Peru. Like corn, it was not found growing

wild, but it had been cultivated by the Incan and pre-Incan races for

thousands of years. They had developed many varieties, as is shown by

their ancient pottery. In most places in Latin America, the sweet

potato is called "camote", but the Incans called it "batata" and that is

apparently the origin of our word "potato".

The sweet potato was carried back to Spain and thence to Italy, from

where it spread to Austria, Germany, Belgium and England before the

first Irish potatoes arrived. It took 200 years for the English to accept

Irish potatoes as being fit for human food, but the sweet potato

immediately became a rare and expensive delicacy. Now it is widely

grown in Asiatic lands, including Japan and southern Russia, in the

warmer Pacific islands, in tropical America, and in the United States

as far north as New Jersey."

from :http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/natbltn/100-199/nb169.htm

Hope this shed a little light on potatoes.

Lady Clare Hele

Barony of Rivenstar, Middle Kingdom

Jennifer Lynn Rushman Si hoc legere scis

Purdue University nimium eruditionis habes.

Master's Student, Horticulture

Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 09:41:33 EDT

From: LrdRas at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - The Potato Question

<< Please, what would I ask for to get a "rose patato" -- a "gold patato?"

They sound interesting. When did these types make it to the old world?

Balldrich >>

Some of these varieties should be available at any good supermarket. If not,

Yukon Gold can be had from a good seedsman. Blue potatos are available from

Guerney's. Unfortunately the colored varieties which would have made it to

the old world are lost in the mists of time although wild varieties of potato

have a propensity to be multicolored, I know of no sources either

commercially or otherwise for these wild types. Modern potatos which have

colors associated with them are a result of careful selection and breeding.for

size, disease resistance, etc..

BTW, colored varieties, indeed any variety of potato purchased in the market

can be planted by the home gardener although they may be "patented". (What a

ludicrous concept! :-0). :-)

Ras (Who is sitting, weapon in hand, waiting for the plant patent police to

come and rip up his garden)

Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 16:46:18 -0400

From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow)

Subject: RE: SC - potatoes

> At 18:28 28-9-98 -0500, Bear wrote:

> >...there is one very late 16th Century recipe from Germany.

> Anybody have a copy of that recipe handy?

> Alasdair mac Iain

<snip>

Hello! I don't have that one, but here is a reference from Gerard's Herball

of 1633. Sorry if this is a repeat; I haven't been following this thread:

Potato pages 926-928 (See also Sweet Potatoes).

"Battata Virginiana, siue Virginianorum, & Pappus. Virginian Potatoes.

The temperature and vertues be referred vnto the common [sweet] Potatoes,

being likewise a food, as also a meate for pleasure, equall in goodnesse

and wholesomenesse vnto the same, being either rosted in the embers, or

boyled and eaten with oyle, vinegar, and pepper, or dressed any other way

by the hand of some cunning in cookerie."

[Sweet] Potato - pages 925-926. "Sisarum Peruvianum, siue Batata

Hispanorum. Potato's.

The Potato roots are among the Spaniards, Italians, Indians, and many

other nations common and ordinarie meate; which no doubt are of mighty and

nourishing parts... being tosted in the embers they lose much of their

windinesse, especially being eaten sopped in wine. Of these roots may

be made conserues no lesse toothsome, wholesome, and dainty than of the

flesh of Quinces: and likewise those comfortable and delicate meats called

in shops Morselli, Placentulae, and diuers other such like.

These Roots may serue as a ground or foundation whereon the cunning

Confectioner or Sugar-Baker may worke and frame many comfortable delicate

Conserues, and restoratiue sweete meates.

They are vsed to be eaten rosted in the ashes. Some when they be so rosted

infuse them and sop them in Wine; and others to giue them the greater grace

in eating, do boyle them with prunes, and so eate them. And likewise

others dresse them (being first rosted) with Oyle, Vineger, and salt,

euerie man according to his owne taste and liking. Notwithstanding

howsoeuer they bee dressed, they comfort, nourish, and strengthen the body,

procuring bodily lust, and that with greedinesse."

More excerpts from Gerard are at http://members.aol.com/renfrowcm/gerard.html

Cindy/Sincgiefu

renfrow at skylands.net

Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 13:25:15 -0400

From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow)

Subject: Re: SC - Italian Ren Feast

If yours is a very late-period feast, you may include the new world items.

Here is a snippet from Gerard's Herball of 1633. There is more info on

potatoes & maize (turkey millet) at

http://members.aol.com/renfrowcm/gerard.html

[Sweet] Potato - pages 925-926.

"Sisarum Peruvianum, siue Batata Hispanorum. Potato's.

The Potato roots are among the Spaniards, Italians, Indians, and many other

nations common and ordinarie meate; which no doubt are of mighty and nourishing

parts... being tosted in the embers they lose much of their windinesse,

especially being eaten sopped in wine.

Of these roots may be made conserues no lesse toothsome, wholesome, and dainty

than of the flesh of Quinces: and likewise those comfortable and delicate meats

called in shops Morselli, Placentulae, and diuers other such like.

These Roots may serue as a ground or foundation whereon the cunning

Confectioner or Sugar-Baker may worke and frame many comfortable delicate

Conserues, and restoratiue sweete meates.

They are vsed to be eaten rosted in the ashes. Some when they be so rosted

infuse them and sop them in Wine; and others to giue them the greater grace in

eating, do boyle them with prunes, and so eate them. And likewise others dresse them (being first rosted) with Oyle, Vineger, and salt, euerie man according to his owne taste and liking. Notwithstanding howsoeuer they bee dressed, they comfort, nourish, and strengthen the body, procuring bodily lust, and that with greedinesse."

Cindy/Sincgiefu

renfrow at skylands.net

Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 20:04:34 -0500

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

Subject: Re: SC - German potato soup recipe???

Vanishwood at aol.com wrote:

> Doesn't the book The Delectable Past have a 1544 Swiss recipie for Rosti?

> Ethelwulf

Three years under the wire!

"Let the nobility have their master-chefs. The role of family cook fell

more naturally on the Hausfrau, and in 1598 one Swiss cook -- Anna

Weckerin -- completed the first cookbook ever written by a woman. A

recipe in it bore a close resemblance to Rösti, the delicious sauteed

potatoes that are as Swiss as William Tell. For delighted cheers, serve

them with your next steak or roast beef.

RÖSTI..."

And Aresty proceeds to give an ordinary recipe for Rösti (actually a

rather simplified one, turned only once).

She does not include the original recipe. At least she gives some

documentation so we have a chance of locating the original and checking

it against her redaction. I dunno. She uses New World ingredients, it

must be wrong...; )

Adamantius

Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 00:45:42 +0100

From: Thomas Gloning <Thomas.Gloning at germanistik.uni-giessen.de>

Subject: SC - Re: 16th century potato soup recipe?

I assume that "white potatoe" is 'solanum tuberosum'. Looking for a 16th/17th potatoe soup recipe, I first checked the index of Hans Wiswe, Kulturgeschichte der Kochkunst. He says, among other things, that potatoes began to be used widespread only in the 18^th century, especially as food for the poor (p. 78). However, Wiswe quotes a passage from a work on gardening and the culinary use of garden plants from the year 1648: "Die Kartoffeln werden gewaschen und in Wasser 'muerbe' gekocht. Nunwird das Wasser abgegossen. Man laesst sie abkuehlen. Nun zieht man die'auswendige [aufwendige_Wiswe] Haut' rein davon. Die grossen Kartoffelnschneidet man ein- oder zweimal auseinander, die kleinen laesst manganz. Dann tun man sie wieder in einen Topf, giesst Wein darueber, tutButter, Muskatblumen und anderes Gewuerz sowie Salz daran und laesst siefein uebersieden. Danach richtet man die Speise an und streut Ingwerdarueber" (Hoyer 1648, second ed. 1651; Wiswe p. 125).Wiswe then points us to a similar passage in the 'Diaeteticon' ofElsholtz (1682). Looking up that passage, Elsholtz writes:"Man isset aber diese Tartuffeln theils zur Lust und verenderung/ theilsals eine naehrende Speise/ weil sie nunmehr zimlich gemein bey unsworden" (p. 31/32; "ziemlich gemein" = 'quite common').Checking the electronic Text of Bartholomaeus Huebners 'NeuSpeisebuechlein' (1603) for "Erd-", "Kart-", "Tart-", I did not findanything important in respect to potatoes.Wiswe also mentions potatoes dealing with (Spanish) recipes for Ollapotrida, but the recipe for "Hollapotrida" in Rumpolt (1581, fol.137b-139b) does not mention potatoes.Going on, I checked some dictionaries.Hopf has no entry "Kartoffel", and her entries "Erdapfel" (see RumpoltVorrede 16v), "Erdbirne" do not mean 'solanum tuberosum'. But the entry "Tartuffol" leads us to the "Frauenzimmerlexikon" (1715), where thereare four recipes with potatoes (cols. 1979-1981). Manfred Lemmercomments on these recipes in his "Nachwort" (p. 23): "Wie die Rezeptelehren, wurde die Kartoffel aber damals noch nicht als Beilage zumFleisch genossen, sondern in der Suppe oder als Salat". Now, it isimportant to know, that these lines were written in 1980 by ManfredLemmer, who is also the editor of the facsimile of Marx Rumpolt (1976)and probably one of the few persons who read Rumpolt entirely. I amquite sure that Manfred Lemmer would have mentioned any potatoe recipealready available in the cookery book of Rumpolt. And so would have doneHopf, I assume; she used Rumpolt as one of her source texts for herdictionary.[BTW, I am beginning to transcribe Rumpolt, and maybe in some months oryears we can search this text. Anybody working on the same project,please drop me a line.]The article in the "Deutsches Woerterbuch" (vol. 11, 244f.) says that"Kartoffel" was derived from earlier "Tartuffel". Alas, it does not leadus to early cookery recipes, but to quotations from German poets(Moeser, Schiller) ...I must stop now; maybe I can check some other sources later.To sum up: German recipes with potatoes seem to be first attestedsomewhere in the 17th century. A linguistic problem is that in somecases we don't know if an expression like "Erdapfel" oder "Gruendling"means the potatoe or something else. Up to the 1720ies, there are souppreparations with potatoes. -- If I remember correctly, the firstattestation of potatoes in Germany is from the end of the 16th century:potatoes were part of a medical garden in Norimberg (I don't recall atpresent where I read that). Anyway: a German potatoe soup recipe fromthe 16th century would come as a great surprise for me. ThomasPS.: Please let me know if I should try and translate the Germanpassages into English or (period!) Latin.

Settmour Swamp, East (NJ)

Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 10:34:23 -0500

From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>

Subject: RE: SC - Citron and Potato

Reay Tannehill in Food In History comments that in 1573 the Hospital de la

Sangre in Seville ordered potatoes at

the same time they did other stocks. Also, while reading Braudel,

Civilization and Capitalism, Vol. I, I came across a tidbit which says that

potatoes were used to feed the poor in Spain in 1643.

Since the white potato was discovered by the Spanish about 1530, a Spanish

recipe for them 69 years later isn't surprising, although the sweet potato

appears to have been the preferred vegetable.

Bear

Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 19:19:15 -0400

From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net>

Subject: SC - Sweet Potato Recipe

This is the other recipe I mentioned.

Source: Libro del Arte de Cozina (Spanish, 1599)

translation: mine

CARNE DE LIMON, Y BATATAS -- Flesh of Lemon and Sweet Potatoes

The lemons must be mature, and divided in the middle, and cast them

in brine, which should be temperate, and after eight days have passed,

remove them and have boiling water, and without washing off the brine,

cast them in, and cook them with much fire, until they are extremely

tender, and when they are so, set them aside from the fire, and lower

them in another [change of] tepid water, and not that in which they were

cooked, and hence in a little while, remove them from the water, and

wash them very well, and if they should not be very tender, give them

another boil, and if it should not be necessary, take them out, and

squeeze them, and pound them in a mortar of stone. The sweet potato

must be washed in two [changes of] water, and have on the fire a boiler

of boiling water, and cast them in, and cook them well, until they are

easily peeled, and then clean and pound [them], and then weigh out a

pound of sweet potatoes, and another of lemon, and to those, two and a

half of sugar, and if you wish them cast in two dozens of almonds, and

very well pounded, it will be smoother. When this meat is combined,

the sugar must be very clarified, and instantly, not in the manner as for

peaches, and it being so, cast it within, and cook on a mild fire, and

when the bottom of the kettle is made white, it is cooked, and set it

aside from the fire, and cast in your musk, and let it cool a little, and

cast it in your boxes, and set them in the sun three or four days, and if

you have to make morsels, you do not have to cook it as much as for a

box.

Note: the mention of peaches seems to refer to an earlier recipe for

peach preserves, in which the clarified sugar is allowed to become tepid

before the fruit is added. I understand this to mean that you must add

the lemon-sweet potato mixture promptly to the clarified sugar while it is

still hot, rather than allowing it to cool as it does in the peach recipe.

The mention of cooking until the bottom turns white discredits my earlier

speculation. When the phrase appeared in the citron recipe, I thought it

might be partial proof that the potatoes in question were white. Since

the phrase also appears here, in a sweet potato recipe, perhaps it only

refers to the syrup turning opaque? Any preserve makers care to

comment? This is not an area of cooking I have ever dealt with, in the

SCA or in mundane life.

Lady Brighid ni Chiarain

Settmour Swamp, East (NJ)

Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 10:07:23 -0400

From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net>

Subject: Re: SC - Citron and Potato

And it came to pass on 4 May 99,, that Stefan li Rous wrote:

[concerning my translation of CIDRA Y PATATA -- Citron and Potato]:

> > > How sure are you that the potato that is meant is the white potato?

> >

> > I am not certain at all, but I felt that period recipes for any kind of

> > potato were rare enough to be of interest.

> Uh oh. Please don't get me wrong. Yes, period recipes for either type of

> potato are of interest. It's just a consideration that occurred to me

> after hearing comments on this list about potatos previously.

I took no offense at the question, my lord. (Print is both a wonderful and

a terrible medium for carrying on a discussion.) I just wanted to make

clear that I had no certain knowledge about the type of potato used. Of

course, since finding the second recipe, some of my thoughts and

assumptions have altered.

> >One possible clue is that the

> > mixture is to be cooked until the stuff at the bottom of the boiler

> > turns white. If you were starting with white potato and citron and

> > sugar, then I assume the mixture would become more opaque, and look

> > whiter.

> Yes, I missed this. I don't see how you could get the orange sweet potato

> to go white.

::sigh:: Unfortunately, as you may have read by now, the second recipe

blew that theory out of the water. The recipe for "Carne de limon, y

batatas" (flesh of lemon, and sweet potatoes) contains the exact same

instruction. Now, a couple of things are possible. One is that the

*syrup* turns opaque and white, and that would be independant of the

color of the other ingredients. Another is that both recipes use white

potatoes; there's a lot of room for scribal error between "patata" and

"batata". Another possibility is that the direction to let it turn white is a

scribal error -- I have seen a recipe for rice which includes the sensible

instruction to clean any dirt off it. A sensible precaution, which is taken even today. It was followed immediately by a recipe for noodles bearing the same instruction, which I attribute to scribal error. Or perhaps period sweet potatoes were paler, as I understand carrots were paler?

Lady Brighid ni Chiarain

Settmour Swamp, East (NJ)

Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 13:37:30 -0700

From: lilinah at grin.net

Subject: SC - I Am What I Yam

Lord Stefan li Rous wrote:

>I believe we determined earlier on this

>list that sweet potatoes were New World. But yams were African. So

>I guess if you were considering sweet potatoes a close replacement

>for yams, it could be period. I don't eat sweet potatoes or yams, so

>I can't say how close they are in taste or texture.

There is a problem of terminology when using the word "yam" in the USA, at

least.

The smooth red skinned, deep golden fleshed tuber commonly called a "sweet

potato" and the smooth red skinned but lighter yellow fleshed tuber often

called a "yam" in the US are both actually "sweet potatoes", merely

variations of the same family of convolvulaceous plants, Ipomoea batatas.

According to my dictionary, the word "potato" derives from a word in the

Taino language from the Caribbean.

Yams are different kinds of starchy tubers, from the climbing vines of the

genus Dioscorea (a different genus from Ipomoea, obviously), generally

white fleshed with rough brown skins.

They grow in a number of different tropical regions, including Asia and the

Pacific Islands, in addition to Africa (and there may be some in the South

American tropics, too). They can occasionally be found in stores that

specialize in Pacific Islands foods, African foods, or Caribbean foods (or

here in Northern California, at some supermarkets).

According to my dictionary, "yam" comes from West Africa/Senegal nyami, "to

eat". In my experience, the cooked flesh is very white, not very flavorful,

and has a significantly different texture from Ipomoea batatas, a little

gummy.

So REAL yams may be African, but they are NOT the yellow sweet potatoes

Americans often call yams. They're a whole 'nother animal, errr, i mean,

vegetable.

Anahita

Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 15:02:08 -0500

From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>

Subject: RE: SC - Russian dishes

> Do we have

> a date for the first use of potatoes for a human food in Europe?

> Lady Katherine McGuire

The first written reference to white potatoes occurs in 1553. A specimen

brought to Spain from Pizzaro's Peruvian expedition is supposed to have

reached Pope Paul III around 1540 and from there been given to a

horticulturalist from France. There is evidence that they were used as

starvation rations at one of the hospitals in Seville in the 16th Century.

And there are supposed to be some late 16th Century German recipes (about

which there was an interesting thread several months ago where one of the

cited sources apparently does not have the stated recipe, IIRC).

There is some conflict about when the white potato came into general use.

It may have been used in Western Europe to replace crops destroyed during

the Thirty Years War, but learned debates from the same period suggest that

the potato was in use but not common fare. During the 18th Century,

potatoes became common fare in much of Europe. Russia was a late adopter of

the potato and it was forced on the Russian peasantry by armed troops,

probably so the nobles could export more grain.

The increased use of the potato as poverty fare would be consistent with

Braudel's documentation of a trend of falling wages and rising food prices

from the late 16th Century to the late 19th Century.

In any event, the white potato was common peasant fare across Europe by the

19th Century just in time to start mass immigrations to the United States

during the potato famines of the 1840's.

Bear

Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 12:23:59 -0500 (EST)

From: Gretchen M Beck <grm+ at andrew.cmu.edu>

Subject: Re: SC - potatoes

> I have been told by several different people that potatoes are not period,

> but if latkes are period, how can potatoes not be? The Jews have been eating

> them for centuries and they (the Jews) were in all countries. I would really

> like some clarification. Thanks!

I don't know about latkes, but I found the following reference in a

cookbook called Green on Greens : Ein NeuKochbuch (A NewCookbook),

compiled and printed on Gutenberg's press in 1581, contains the first

annotated German recipes; and there are a dozen potato dishes listed

among them. One, suprisingly enough, is a very tasty baked tart.

toodles, margaret

Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 01:56:15 +0100

From: Thomas Gloning <Thomas.Gloning at germanistik.uni-giessen.de>

Subject: SC - potatoes

<<< Given the date, are these likely to be white potatoes, or are they

probably the sweet kind? Christianna

3. Side Dish (Period POTATOES)

Another. (Lancelot de Casteau, ca. 1604)

Take the sliced potatoes and let them stew in butter (...) >>>

The original text is:

"Autrement. [= Tartoufle autrement; the third of four recipes for

"tartoufle"]

Prennez la tartoufle par tranches, & mettez esteuuer auec beurre,

mariolaine haschee, du persin: puis prennez quatre ou cinq iaulnes

d'oeuf battus auec vn peu de vin, & iettez le dessus tout en bouillant,

& tirez arriere du feu, & seruez ainsi" (Lancelot de Casteau, Ouverture

de cuisine, Liège 1604, p.95).

Léo Moulin and Jacques Kother in the facsimile of Lancelot de Casteau's

'Ouverture de cuisine' (repr. Anvers & Bruxelles 1983) held the view

that potatoes were ment: "Ces quatre recettes de pomme de terre

constituent une des plus précieuses révélations du livre de Lancelot de

Casteau" (p.255). They quote some evidence for their position, but as

far as I can see, some of the quoted texts are also uncertain.

In the 'Ouverture de cuisine', there are four recipes with "tartoufle"

(p.94-95), a translation into modern French on p. 254-257 together with

a long note, and an entry in the glossary (p. 296-7, note 29), including

a reference to: Léo Moulin: La Belgique à table. L'art de manger en

Belgique. Antwerpen (Esco Books) 1979, 15-22, for the diffusion of

potatoes in Europe.

I must leave you with that.

Thomas

Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 08:25:10 -0600

From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>

Subject: RE: SC - potatoes

> Were Potatoes being cultivated in Tennessee that early? My vague

> memory, I think from something in _Guns, Germs and Steel_, is that

> the South American food plants moved north very slowly.

> David/Cariadoc

I believe the general evidence is white potatoes were isolated in the Incan

empire until the Spanish arrived.

Although Gerard described the "Viginia potato," it appears to have been a

very recent import from South America, either left by Drake when he rescued

the survivors of the Roanoke Colony during his return voyage to England

after the sack of Cartegena (1586) or, more likely, brought to England by

him, then re-introduced to Virginia in 1587 when Richard Grenville

re-established the colony.

Bear

Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 09:01:48 -0600

From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>

Subject: RE: SC - potatoes

> Bear said:

> Although Gerard described the "Viginia potato," it appears to have been a

> very recent import from South America, either left by Drake when he rescued

> the survivors of the Roanoke Colony during his return voyage to England

> after the sack of Cartegena (1586) or, more likely, brought to England

> by him, then re-introduced to Virginia in 1587 when Richard Grenville

> re-established the colony.

> Arent girasols native to the american east coast? that would fit the

> bill of 'virginia potato"

> margali

> [yummmm, jerusalem artichoke-I wonder how they would be for latkes?]

Gerard was describing Solanum tuberosum (the white potato) which he called

Batata virginian sive Virginianorum et Pappus. Considering the naming

convention, Gerard was either aware of the Spanish literature on potatoes or

was relating it to Ipomoea batatas, the sweet potato, or both.

Jerusalem artichokes (Helianthus tuberosus) are a sunflower root as the name

girasol attests, being an archaic Italian word meaning sunflower. I doubt

that Gerard and his fellow botanists confused the two tubers.

Not much was done with potatoes in the Colonies until the 18th Century, but

the Jerusalem artichoke was one of the chief survival foods for the

Jamestown colony.

Bear

Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 04:12:35 +0100

From: Thomas Gloning <gloning at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE>

Subject: SC - Help with 1650s+ info: potatoes (long)

It seems that the use of potatoes became _widespread_ in Europe somewhen

in the 17th and 18th centuries, depending on the region. But the

earliest culinary uses and experiments in Europe are known since the

16th century. Here is some further material:

1. Potatoes were cultivated in mid-17th century England

G¸nter Wiegelmann, in his excellent book 'Alltags- und Festspeisen

[Dishes for everyday and dishes for feasts]' (Marburg 1967) has an

important chapter on potatoes. He says among other things:

- -- "Der feldm‰?ige Anbau war in England schon in der Mitte des 17.

Jahrhunderts - nach dem Vorbild Irlands - ¸blich geworden und in den

Niederlanden auch seit 1670 bekannt" (p.76).

- -- Roughly: 'The cultivation [of potatoes] on fields was common in

England as early as in the mid-17th century (after the model of Ireland)

and was known in the Netherlands since 1670'.

He metions three books to back up this statement:

- -- Fuess, W.F.K.: Die Geschichte der Kartoffel [The history of the

potato], Berlin 1939, 57-62

- -- Salaman, R.N., The history and the social influence of the potato.

Cambridge 1949, 188ff.

- -- J.A. van Houtte, Economische en sociale geschiedenis van de Lage

Landen, Antwerpen 1964, 172.

2. Potatoes in butter 1591

Not a recipe but a description how potatoes were cooked can be found in

a letter of the Landgraf Wilhelm IV von Hessen to the Kurf¸rst Christian

I. von Sachsen in 1591 (quoted from Wiegelmann p. 76 in his

potato-chapter):

- -- "Wir uberschicken auch E.L. Under andern ein gewechse so wir Vor

wenig Jahren au? Italia becommen, Und Taratouphli genandt wirdt (...)

Undenn ahn der wurzelnn hatt es Viele tubera henkenn, dieselbige wenn

sie gekocht werden, seindt sie gar anmutig zu e?en, Mann mu? sie aber

erstlich im Wasser uffsieden la?enn, so gehen die oberste schalens ab,

darnach thutt mann die bruhe darvonn, Undt seudt sie in butter Vollendes

gahr".

- -- Roughly: 'We also send to your Highness among other things a plant

that we got from Italy some years ago, called Taratouphli (...) Below,

at the root, there hang many tubers. If they are cooked these tubers are

very good to eat. But you must first boil them in water, so that the

outer shell (peeling?) gets off, then pour the cooking water away, and

cook them to the point in butter'. -- The article in the "Deutsches

Woerterbuch" (vol. 11, 244f.) says that "Kartoffel" was derived from

earlier "Tartuffel".

3. Spiced potatoes 1648

Hans Wiswe, in his 'Kulturgeschichte der Kochkunst', says, among other

things, that potatoes began to be used _widespread_ only in the 18th

century, especially as food for the poor (p.78). However, Wiswe quotes

or rather paraphrases a passage from a work on gardening and the

culinary use of garden plants from the year 1648:

- -- "Die Kartoffeln werden gewaschen und in Wasser 'muerbe' gekocht. Nun

wird das Wasser abgegossen. Man laesst sie abkuehlen. Nun zieht man die

'auswendige [aufwendige_Wiswe] Haut' rein davon. Die grossen Kartoffeln

schneidet man ein- oder zweimal auseinander, die kleinen laesst man

ganz. Dann tun man sie wieder in einen Topf, giesst Wein darueber, tut

Butter, Muskatblumen und anderes Gewuerz sowie Salz daran und laesst sie

fein uebersieden. Danach richtet man die Speise an und streut Ingwer

darueber" (Hoyer 1648, second ed. 1651; Wiswe p. 125).

- -- Roughly: 'Wash the potatoes and boil them well-cooked. Let cool down.

Put away the outer skin. Cut the big potatoes once or twice, the smaller

ones must not be cut. Then put them into a pot again, add wine, butter,

mace and other spices and salt and let boil. Then serve it forth and

sprinkle with ginger'.

4. Potatoes are 'quite common' in 1682

Wiswe points us to an interesting passage in the 'Diaeteticon' of

Elsholtz (1682). Looking up that passage, Elsholtz writes:

- -- "Man isset aber diese Tartuffeln theils zur Lust und verenderung/

theils als eine naehrende Speise/ weil sie nunmehr zimlich gemein bey

uns worden" (p. 31/32).

- -- Roughly: 'These potatoes ("tartuffeln") are eaten as a dish of

pleasure and a dish of variety, but also as a nutritive dish. They are

now quite common here').

5. Potatoes in 'Olla podrida'?

Wiswe also mentions potatoes dealing with (Spanish) recipes for Olla

potrida, but the recipe for "Hollapotrida" in Rumpolt (1581, fol.

137b-139b) does not mention potatoes. Nor does the recipe for Olla

podrida of Hern·ndez de Maceras 1607.

6. Four potato-recipes in the 'Frauenzimmerlexikon' (1715)

In the "Frauenzimmerlexikon [Lexicon for and about women]" (1715), there

are four recipes with potatoes (cols. 1979-1981). Manfred Lemmer

comments on these recipes in his "Nachwort" (p. 23): "Wie die Rezepte

lehren, wurde die Kartoffel aber damals noch nicht als Beilage zum

Fleisch genossen, sondern in der Suppe oder als Salat" (potato was used

only in soups and as salad). Now, it is important to know, that these

lines were written in 1980 by Manfred Lemmer, who is also the editor of

the facsimile of Marx Rumpolt (1976) and probably one of the few persons

who read Rumpolt entirely. I am quite sure that Manfred Lemmer would

have mentioned any potatoe recipe already available in the cookbook of

Rumpolt. -- I read somewhere that an old potatoe recipe might be in the

second edition of Rumpolt (1587), but I did not look up this source yet,

as I am working with the facsimile of the first edition (1581).

7. Four potato-recipes in the 'Ouverture de cuisine' (1604)

There are four (candidates for) recipes for Tartoufle in Lancelot de

Casteau's 'Ouverture de cuisine' (1604). They are interpreted as recipes

for potatoes by the editors of the reprint of this very rare cookbook:

LÈo Moulin and Jacques Kother in the facsimile of Lancelot de Casteau's

'Ouverture de cuisine' (repr. Anvers & Bruxelles 1983) held the view

that potatoes were ment: "Ces quatre recettes de pomme de terre

constituent une des plus prÈcieuses rÈvÈlations du livre de Lancelot de

Casteau" (p.255). They quote some evidence for their position, but as

far as I can see, at least some of the quoted texts are also uncertain.

There is a further reference to: LÈo Moulin: La Belgique ‡ table. L'art

de manger en Belgique. Antwerpen (Esco Books) 1979, 15-22, for the

diffusion of potatoes in Europe.

Here is the third of the four recipes:

- -- "Autrement [= Tartoufle autrement]. Prennez la tartoufle par

tranches, & mettez esteuuer auec beurre, mariolaine haschee, du persin:

puis prennez quatre ou cinq iaulnes d'oeuf battus auec vn peu de vin, &

iettez le dessus tout en bouillant, & tirez arriere du feu, & seruez

ainsi" (Lancelot de Casteau, Ouverture de cuisine, LiËge 1604, p.95).

- -- Roughly: '(Potatoes:) A different manner. Take potatoes cut in slices

and heat them with butter, chopped (minced?) marjoram, parsley, then

take four or five egg yolks beaten with a bit of wine, and put it over

the potatoes while they are still cooking and take it from the fire then

and serve it forth'. [Sort of tortilla?]

Best,

Thomas

Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 09:19:38 -0800

From: lilinah at earthlink.net

Subject: RE: SC - New World Foods-list

Bear wrote:

>Yams are of African origin and were probably brought into Europe early in

>the 14th Century.

Yes, but what Americans call yams are of New World origin. African

yams are a whole different vegetable.

Both what Americans call Sweet Potatoes (with deep orangy yellow

flesh) *AND* what Americans call Yams (with pale yellow flesh) are

just two varieties of the same plant, both from the New World, with

flesh of differing shades of yellow and purplish, mostly smooth skin,

both Ipomoea batatas.

What are called yams that are from Africa is something one rarely

finds in America, and is a tuber with white flesh and rough cocoa

brown skin, and are from a number of different plants within genus

Dioscorea.

Anahita al-shazhiya

Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 12:24:13 -0500

From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>

Subject: RE: SC - Potatoes and other new worlde foods as subleties

From bjofnz at yahoo.co.nz

> I want any ideas on how to present potatoes or corn

> ect as a New exotic food at an elizabethan feast

The Elizabethans preferred sweet potatoes. Oviedo reported in 1526 that

sweet potatoes had often been brought back to Spain and that he had brought

some back to be planted in Avila. England appears to have received them

from Spain during Henry VIII's marriage to Catherine of Aragon. Henry was

said to like sweet potato pie and there are occasional references to sweet

potato pies which I have not tracked down to contemporary sources.

Root mentions that Marnette's The Perfect Cook (1656) gives a recipe for

potato pie with the ingredients of cinnamon, nutmeg, mace, grapes and dates.

Gerard gives the following, "...whose nutriment is as it were a mean between

flesh and fruit, but somewhat windie; yet being roasted in the embers they

lose much of their windinesse....Some when they be so rosted infuse and sop

them in wine; and others to give them the greater grace in eating, do boile

them with prunes and so eat them; likewise others dresse them (being first

rosted) with oile, vinegar, and salt, every man according to his own taste

and liking."

In 1586, Francis Drake sacked Cartegena and reprovisioned his ships. There

is a belief that he obtained the first white potatoes to enter England at

this time and that white potatoes may have been served at a banquet at the

English court. If so, they didn't catch on. How they would have been

served is open to question, but it would probably have been treated similar

to Gerard's sweet potato.

Gerard refers to the white potato as Potatoes of Virginia. Drake on his

return voyage in 1586 rescued the survivors of the first Roanoke colony and

returned them to England. It is an open question as to whether Gerard

believed Drake found the potato in Virginia or whether potatoes were sent to

Virginia with the second Roanoke colony in 1587 and Gerard received a sample

from the colony.

Maize made no impact on the Elizabethans. Gerard expresses it thusly;

"...the barbarous Indians, which know no better, are constrained to make a

vertue of necessitie, and thinke it is a good food; whereas we may easily

judge, that it nourisheth but little, and is of hard and evill digestion, a

more convenient food for swine than for men."

The fact that the New World colonists made use of maize should not be

generalized to the entire Elizabethan world. The English colonist preferred

wheat, but smut destroyed their wheat crops.

Bear

Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 19:23:51 -0600

From: Sue Clemenger <mooncat at in-tch.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Potatoes and other new worlde foods as subleties

These are both from Fettiplace

To Butter Potato Roots" (p. 193)

"Take the roots & boile them in water, till they bee verie sort, then

peele them & slice them, then put some rosewater to them & sugar & the

pill of an orenge, & some of the iuice [sic] of the orenge, so let them

boile a good while, then put some butter to them, & when the butter is

melted serve them. This way you may bake them, but put them unboiled

into the paste."

"To Preserve Potatoes" (p. 194)

"Boile your roots in faire water untill they bee somewhat tender then

pill of the skinne, then make your syrupe, weying to every pound of

roots a pound of sugar and a quarter of a pinte of faire water, & as

much of rose water, & the iuice of three or fowre orenges, then boile

the syrupe & scum it, then cut your roots in the middle & put them into

the syrup, & boile them till they bee throughlie soaked in the syrupe,

before you take it from the fire, put in a little musk and amber greece

[ambergris, according to the editor]."

- --Maire

Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 08:51:27 -0500

From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>

Subject: RE: SC - Potatoes Decorative food Ideas and Candle sticks

Paste commonly refers to a dough or a pastry shell. Looking at this recipe,

I would believe paste means the pastry shell for a sweet potato pie.

Bear

Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 09:25:56 -0400

From: Elaine Koogler <ekoogler at chesapeake.net>

Subject: Re: SC - Potatoes and other new worlde foods as subleties

BJ of NZ wrote:

> I want any ideas on how to present potatoes or corn

> ect as a New exotic food at an elizabethan feast

Don't know about corn...I've never seen a recipe for that. However, I used the

following VERY YUMMY recipe at my recent feast (from Dining with William

Shakespeare)

Stewed Potatoes

1 1/2 pounds sweet potatoes

1 pound tart cooking apples

5 tbsp. Brown sugar

1/4 tsp. cinnamon

1/2 tsp. ginger

4 tbsp. Butter, diced

1/3 cup white wine vinegar

1/4 cup candied orange peel, diced

Bake the potatoes in their dkins for 30 minutes at 400?. Peel them and cut them

into thin slices. Core and peel the apples and slice them thin.

Mix 3 tbsp. of the sugar with the cinnamon and ginger. Butter a casserole with

one tbsp. of the butter and put a layer of sliced apples into it. Sprinkle a

little of the sugar-spice mixture and bits of diced butter over them. Cover with a layer of sliced potatoes, sprinkle a little of the sugar-spice mixture and dot with butter. Continue layering apples and potatoes as above until all are in the casserole.

Pour the wine vinegar over the top and sprinkle with the remaining two tbsp. of

sugar. Cover and bake at 350? for 40 minutes or until the potatoes and apples

are tender. Dot the dish with candied orange peel and serve hot.

I don't have the original down here in my office at the moment, but if you want

it, I can send that in a later post.

Hope this helps! Folks at our feast really loved this.

Kiri

Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 07:58:43 -0400

From: Elaine Koogler <ekoogler at chesapeake.net>

Subject: Re: SC - Sweet Potato Pie

Don't know about sweet potato pie, but there is a recipe for Stewed Potatoes in

"Dining with William Shakespeare" that is outstanding. I know they give the

original in the book, but I can't remember off the top of my head where it came

from and the book is upstairs. I'll look and send it to you later.

Kiri

"Decker, Terry D." wrote:

> We've discussed the sweet potato and sweet potato pie in Elizabethan

> England, but I don't recall ever seeing a recipe. Do any of the Elizabethan

> or Jacobean sources have such a recipe?

> Bear

Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 17:22:20 -0400 (EDT)

From: alysk at ix.netcom.com

Subject: SC - More Potato Recipes

Robert May's _The Accomplisht Cook_, fourth edition, 1678, has

these potato recipes.

"To bake Potatoes, Artichocks, in a Dish, Pie, or Patty-pan,

either in Paste or little Pasties."

"Take any of these roots, and boil them in fair water, but put

them not in till the water boils, being tenter boil'd, blanch them,

& season them with nutmeg, pepper, cinamon, and salt, season them

lightly, then lay on a sheet of paste in a dish, and lay on some bits

of butter, then lay on the potatoes round the dish, also some erringo

roots, and dates in halves, beef marrow, large mace, slic't lemon,

and some butter, close it up with another sheet of paste, bake it,

and being baked liquor it with grape-verjuyce, butter and sugar, and

ice it with rose-water and sugar."

"Soops of Artichocks, Potatoes, Skirrets, or Parsnips."

"Being boil'd and cleansed, put to them yolks of hard eggs, dates,

mace, cinamon, butter, sugar, white-wine, salt, slic't lemon, grapes,

gooseberries, or barberries, stew them together whole, and being

finely stewed, serve them on carved sippets in a clean scowred dish,

and run it over with beaten butter and scraped sugar."

I found two more recipes for potatoes, but they are from

cookery books of 1695 or slightly later. One for a pie, by John Evelyn,

echoes the recipe I sent in another post. Anne Blencowe (1695) has

a recipe for a potato pudding.

Alys Katharine

Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 17:22:18 -0400 (EDT)

From: alysk at ix.netcom.com

Subject: SC - Potato Pie Recipe

Greetings. I found one potato pie recipe in _A True Gentlewoman's

Delight_, printed in 1653, a bit OOP. While I think I saw a recipe

closer or even in period, I can't find it right now. Keep in mind

that these are probably sweet potatoes, not the white Virginia

potato.

"A Potato Pie for Supper"

"Take three pound of boyled and blanched Potatoes and 3 Nutmegs, and

half an ounce of Cinnamon beaten together, and three ounces of Sugar,

season your Potatoes, and put them in your Pie, then take the marrow

of three bones, rouled in yolks of Eggs, and sliced Lemon, and large

Mace, and half a pound of butter, six Dates quartered, put this into

your pie, and let it stand an hour in the oven; then make a sharp

caudle of butter, Sugar, Verjuyce, and white Wine, put it in when

you take your Pie out of the Oven."

Alys Katharine

Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 17:30:27 -0400 (EDT)

From: alysk at ix.netcom.com

Subject: SC - Re: Sweet Potato Pie

Greetings. _Dining With William Shakespeare_ uses a recipe from

John Murrell, _A Delightfull daily exercise for Ladies and

Gentlewomen_, 1621. This is the original recipe.

"To Make a Paste of Potatoes"

"Boyle your Potatoes very tender, pare them and pricke out all the blackes of them, put to every pound of them a graine of Muske, and beat them in a stone morter very fine, then take as much refined Sugar as the Pulp doth weigh, and boyle it to a candy height with as much Rose-water as will dissolve it, then put in the pulpe into the boiling Sugar, let it boyle alwayes stirring it until it comes from the bottom of the posnet, then lay it on a sheet of glass in round cakes or in what fashion you please, and set it in a warm oven or Stove, and when it is candied on the top, then turne it on the other side, and let it candy, and in ten or twelve daies it will be dry, then boxe it for your use."

IIRC, candy height is the equivalent of the thread stage today.

Alys Katharine

Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 18:16:13 EDT

From: DianaFiona at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - Sweet Potato Pie

Elynor Fettiplace has a yummy recipe for sweet potatoes, that I've made

often.

"To butter Potato roots"

Take the roots & bole them in water till they bee verie soft, then peele

them and slice them, then put some rosewater to them & sugar & the pill of an

orenge, & some of the iuice of the orenge, so let them boile a good while,

then put some butter to them, & when the butter is melted serve them. This

way you may bake them, but put them unboiled into the paste."

I have yet to do the baked version, but the boiled one turns outs very

close to a mashed effect, as the soft potato slices get broken up by the

stirring in of the other ingredients. Good stuff--I rarely bring any home!

;-) Do add a bit of salt in, though, or they will taste a little flat. I've

also found that I often need to use part lemon juice, to make up for the

tartness that would have been in the period oranges. The acidity is

definitely needed, at least to my taste.

Ldy Diana

Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 01:14:07 EDT

From: DianaFiona at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - Sweet Potato Pie

lcatherinemc at hotmail.com writes:

Do you have the Doc. for these. I would like to serve then at a lunch

planed for an Estates meeting of another group.

Ldy Katherine McGuire

"The Complete Receipt Book of Ladie Elynor Fettiplace , Vol. 1",

published by Stuart Press, is the version I have. It's *just* the recipes,

with no commentary, unlike the lovely book put out by the wife of the

gentleman who inherited this household book, which is far more commentary

than recipes, and quite fascinating. It was started by Lady Elynor in 1604,

and passed on to her niece in 1647. It is, therefore, technically outside our

period, but no more so than several other works that are commonly used in the

Society.

Ldy Diana

From: "E. Rain" <raghead at liripipe.com>

To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:57:36 -0700

Subject: [Sca-cooks] RE: Potatoes Revisited - Longish (Elise Fleming)

Alys posted some potato candy recipes she found in Murrell. these remind me

of the spanish confection from Granado that Lady Brighid translated. I've

included her translation adn my preliminary redaction notes for those who

may be interested.

Source: Libro del Arte de Cozina (Spanish, 1599) translation by Robin

Carrol-Mann

CARNE DE LIMON, Y BATATAS -- Flesh of Lemon and Sweet Potatoes

The lemons must be mature, and divided in the middle, and cast them in

brine, which should be temperate, and after eight days have passed, remove

them and have boiling water, and without washing off the brine, cast them

in, and cook them with much fire, until they are extremely tender, and when

they are so, set them aside from the fire, and lower them in another [change

of] tepid water, and not that in which they were cooked, and hence in a

little while, remove them from the water, and wash them very well, and if

they should not be very tender, give them another boil, and if it should not

be necessary, take them out, and squeeze them, and pound them in a mortar of

stone. The sweet potato must be washed in two [changes of] water, and have

on the fire a boiler of boiling water, and cast them in, and cook them well,

until they are easily peeled, and then clean and pound [them], and then

weigh out a pound of sweet potatoes, and another of lemon, and to those, two

and a half of sugar, and if you wish them cast in two dozens of almonds, and

very well pounded, it will be smoother. When this meat is combined, the

sugar must be very clarified, and instantly, not in the manner as for

peaches, and it being so, cast it within, and cook on a mild fire, and when

the bottom of the kettle is made white, it is cooked, and set it aside from

the fire, and cast in your musk, and let it cool a little, and cast it in

your boxes, and set them in the sun three or four days, and if you have to

make morsels, you do not have to cook it as much as for a box.

Note: the mention of peaches seems to refer to an earlier recipe for peach

preserves, in which the clarified sugar is allowed to become tepid before

the fruit is added. I understand this to mean that you must add the

lemon-sweet potato mixture promptly to the clarified sugar while it is still

hot, rather than allowing it to cool as it does in the peach recipe. [RCM]

Eden's reconstruction (december 2000)

Day 1

Sliced 4 lemons in half, soaked in 1 qt water with 5 oz kosher salt

Day 8 (1 week later)

Boil 2 large pots of water

Add 2 sweet potatos (well washed) to one pot

Boil 1:45 =96 2:45

Had to add more water twice, this dropped temp, next time cover pot

Add Drained Lemons to other pot

1:45 =96 2:25

Puree =BD of cooked Lemons (8 oz)

(pull out seeds)

Puree =BD cooked potatoes (8 oz)

Powder =BD oz slivered almonds

Heat 1 lb 4 oz sugar for 40 mins till liquid (sugared so it took too long)

Add goops mix & pour into tinfoil lined pan

Tastes like Orange marmalade. Didn't become a stiff candy

Next time wait to stir sugar till more has melted in

Combine goops before adding to sugar

Remove lemon seeds earlier

Cook more after goop added

Note that this marmelade is still, 7 months later, in my fridge & my husband

loves it on pancakes or as a chutney with leftover indian food.

Eden Rain

raghead at liripipe.com

Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 09:48:17 -0500

From: johnna holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Potatoes? Period?

You can also hunt up a copy of

The History and Social Influence of the Potato by Redcliffe Salaman.

1949. reprinted with introduction and corrections

by J. G. Hawkes, C.U.P., 1985.

By the time you read all 600 plus pages of it then you'll have a pretty good grasp of what happened or might have happened with the potato through history.

Johnna Holloway Johnnae llyn Lewis

From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>

To: "'sca-cooks at ansteorra.org'" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 16:27:05 -0600

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Carolus Clusius and the Kartoffel

"Food: a Culinary History," a usually reliable source states that Clusius

introduced the potato into the Low Countries in 1580. This is an error, for

by his own words, Clusius was only introduced to the potato in 1587, "I

received the first authentic information about this plant from Phillipus de

Sivry, Dn. de Walhain and the Prefect of the City of Mons in Hannonia, of

the Belgians, who sent two tuber of it, with its fruit, to me in Vienna,

Austria, at the beginning of the year 1587, and in the following year, a

drawing of the branch with a flower." De Sivry had obtained his potatoes

from an employee of the Pontifical Delegation to Belgium in 1586.

Looking a little further, I came across references to Clusius having

introduced the potato to the Lowlands and to Germany in the 1580's. That

Clusius comments in his Herbal (1601) about the potato being grown in some

of the gardens of Germany, leads me to believe potatoes got to Germany

without his assistance. As for introducing them to the Lowlands, Clusius

was in Austria and Germany during this period. He did send potato seed to

Johannes Hogeladius, who grew potatoes from them, which may represent their

introduction into Holland, although I have not been able to determine where

Hogeladius resided. This exchange of potato plants, seeds and information

between botanists suggests that the potato was essentially unknown in

northern Europe prior to 1586.

Despite the Hospital de la Sangre in Seville ordering white potatoes as part

of its stocks in 1573, Clusius' work tends to discount any widespread

cultivationin Spain. The potato does not appear in Rarium aliquot stirpium

per Hispanias observatarum historia , a thorough botanical study of the

plants of Spain published in 1576. Information for this work was probably

collected between 1563 and 1565, while he was Governor for Antione Fugger's

sons during their educational travels and 1566 to 1571, when Clusius was

living on a inheritance. The work appears to have been written while he was

director of the Botanical Gardens in Vienna an appointment he received from

Emperor Maximilian II. He also prepared a map of Spain for the geographer

Abraham Ortelius, who was made geographer to Phillip II of Spain in 1575,

which suggests that Clusius' knowledge of the plants of Spain was gained

first hand.

In 1601, Clusius points only to Germany and Italy as places where the potato

was under cultivation. It should be noted that he had firsthand knowledge

of Germany having resided in Frankfurt for many years and having patrons in

Hesse and the Palatinate, while his comments about potatoes being eaten in

Italy are qualified with "so they say."

The Herbal of 1601, Rariorum plantarum historia, was published while he was

professor of botany and first director of the botanical gardens at Leiden,

Holland. That he does not mention cultivation of potatoes in Holland

suggests that the potato was not found much outside of botanical collections

in the Low Countries, despite claims they were being eaten their in the late

16th Century.

An incomplete but useful biographical outline of Clusius can be found at:

http://es.rice.edu/ES/humsoc/Galileo/Catalog/Files/lecluse.html

Bear

Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 08:52:19 -0700

From: lilinah at earthlink.net

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Old World vs. New World Fruits

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

> I thought that yams and peanuts were African in origin and thus know

> to late period Europeans.

> Daniel

Depends on what *you* mean by yams.

Nyame are African. But what is commonly calld "yam" in the USA is

actually a form of sweet potato.

If it's yellow or orange inside, it isn't a yam, it's a sweet potato.

These are from North America and show up in the 16th c. as batata.

There's at least one recipe in the Elizabethan corpus, and a rcipe

or two in the Spanish-language corpus, and ISTR a possible recipe in

the German-language corpus.

*REAL* African yams - nyame - are white inside, and somewhat woody.

Anahita

Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 03:25:29 -0400

From: ranvaig at columbus.rr.com

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Old World vs. New World Fruits

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> If it's yellow or orange inside, it isn't a yam, it's a sweet

> potato. These are from North America and show up in the 16th c. as

> batata. There's at least one recipe in the Elizabethan corpus, and a

> recipe or two in the Spanish-language corpus, and ISTR a possible

> recipe in the German-language corpus.

http://waynesword.palomar.edu/ww0804.htm#columbus

Archaeological evidence shows that sweet potatoes were cultivated in

South America by 2400 B.C. and fossilized sweet potatoes from the

Andes have been dated at 8,000 to 10,000 years old. Although the

sweet potato is clearly native to South America, it was also

cultivated in Polynesia as early as 1200 A.D.

Ranvaig

Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 17:27:15 -0500

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.at.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Lost recipe?

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> Please forgive me, I don't even know if this List is the one that had the

> discussion about what I'm about to ask... someone, somewhen recently, was

> discussing a late (LATE) 16th century recipe dealing with cooing sweet

> potatoes and apples together. It intrigued me enough that I bought the

> ingredients yesterday and now - I can't find the recipe! Does this

> sound remotely familiar to anyone?

> Hrothny the confused

Possibly this on from Dining with William Shakespeare? Bear

Stewed Potatoes

1 1/2 pounds sweet potatoes

1 pound tart cooking apples

5 tbsp. Brown sugar

1/4 tsp. cinnamon

1/2 tsp. ginger

4 tbsp. Butter, diced

1/3 cup white wine vinegar

1/4 cup candied orange peel, dice

Bake the potatoes in their dkins for 30 minutes at 400?. Peel them and cut

them into thin slices. Core and peel the apples and slice them thin.

Mix 3 tbsp. of the sugar with the cinnamon and ginger. Butter a casserole

with one tbsp. of the butte and put a layer of sliced apples into it.

Sprinkle a little of the sugar-spice mixture and bits of diced butter over

them. Cover with a layer of sliced potatoes, sprinkle a little of the

sugar-spice mixture and dot with butter. Continue layering appls and

potatoes as above until all are in the casserole.

Pour the wine vinegar over the top and sprinkle with the remaining two tbsp.

of sugar. Cover and bake at 350? for 40 minutes or until the potatoes and

apples are tender. Dot the dish with canded orange peel and serve hot.

Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 20:48:08 -0400

From: Elaine Koogler<ekoogler1 at comcast.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Lost recipe?

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Terri Morgan wrote:

> Please forgive e, I don't even know if this List is the one that had the

> discussion about what I'm about to ask... someone, somewhen recently, was

> discussing a late (LATE) 16th century recipe dealing with cooking sweet

> potatoes and apples together. It intrgued me enough that I bought the

> ingredients yesterday and now - I can't find the recipe! Does this

> sound remotely familiar to anyone?

> Hrothny the confused

I wasn't discussing it recently, but I have used such a recipe for a

feast I coked for Lochmere's Night on the Town a couple of years back.

The following is the recipe from Joseph Cooper, /The Art of Cookery

Refin’d and Augmented /by way of Madge Lorwin's /Dining with William

Shakespeare. /The dish was delicious and folks seemed to eally enjoy

it.

_Stewed Potatoes_

**1 1/2 pounds sweet potatoes

1 pound tart cooking apples

5 tbsp. Brown sugar

1/4 tsp. cinnamon

1/2 tsp. ginger

4 tbsp. Butter, diced

1/3 cup white wine vinegar

1/4 cup candied orange peel, diced

Bake the potatoes in their skins for 30 minutes at 400°. Peel them and

cut them into thin slices. Core and peel the apples and slice them thin.

Mix 3 tbsp. of the sugar with the cinnamon and ginger. Butter a

casserole with one tbsp. of the butter and put a layer of slice apples

into it. Sprinkle a little of the sugar-spice mixture and bits of diced

butter over them. Cover with a layer of sliced potatoes, sprinkle a

little of the sugar-spice mixture and dot with butter. Continue layering

apples and potatoes as abofve unti all are in the casserole.

Pour the wine vinegar over the top and sprinkle with the remaining two

tbsp. of sugar. Cover and bake at 350° for 40 minutes or until the

potatoes and apples are tender. Dot the dish with candied orange peel

and serve hot.

Original: Boyle or roast your Potatoes very tender, and blanch [peel]

them; cut them into thin slices, put them into a dish or stewing pan,

put to them three or foure Pippins sliced thin, a good quantity of

beaten Ginger and Cynamon, Verjuice, Sugar and butte; stew these

together an hour very softly; dish them being stewed enough, putting to

them Butter and Verjuice beat together, and stick it full of green

Sucket or Oreengado, or some such liquid sweet-meat; sippit it and

scrape Sugar on it, and serve it up ot to the table. – Joseph Cooper,

/The Art of Cookery Refin’d and Augmented./

Lorwin, Madge. /Dining with William Shakespeare./

Kiri

Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 09:32:23 -0700 (PDT)

From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] musings on nightshade

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

--- Terry Decker <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net> wrote:

> White potatoes are just late coming to the party and weren't as appreciated

> as the sweet potato. They may have arrived as early as 1539. The first

> reference to them being used in Europe is in Seville in the 1570's. They

> don't arrive in England until 1586 and Northern Europe until 1587 as

> botanical specimens and most references to them are as botanical specimens.

> As a crop, the earliest adopters appear to be the Irish around the end of

> the 16th Century and it is the Irish that bring the white potato to North

> America in 1719. There are references to them being planted in various

> parts of Europe in the 17th Century, probably as a hedge against invasion

> and grain failures, but general use isn't documentable until the mid-18th

> Century. One speculation is the more temperately adapted Chilean potato was

> introduced at that time.

> Bear

Alan Davidson mentions different dates. The Spanish first encountered them in Colombia in 1537 and called them "truffles". The potato was introduced to Spain in the 1550's. And also to Italy, but the variety introduced had climatic requirements that Spain and Italy could not meet and this variety was small, watery and somewhat bitter, and therefore unappealing. He also says, "It is generally accepted that potatoes were introduced to the British Isles (including

Ireland) during the 1590's." He goes on to relate that Protestants refused to plant potatoes and one reason was that they weren't mentioned in the Bible. Irish Catholics got around this by "sprinkling their seed potatoes with holy water and planting them on Good Friday."

Davidson goes on to say that Gerard appears to have "muddled" potatoes

with another American tuber called "openauk".

Huette

Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 17:54:34 -0500

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] musings on nightshade

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> Alan Davidson mentions different dates. The Spanish first encountered

> them in Colombia in 1537 and called them "truffles".

Gonzalo Jiminez de Quesada was the leader of the first expedition (1536)

into the Colombian highlands and is often credited with discovering the

potato. The 1537 date roughly conicides with the establishment of a Spanish

presence in Quito. De Quesada was joined by two other expeditions, those of

Sebastian de Benalcazar and Nikolaus Federmann (in the employ of the

Welsers) The three returned to Spain in 1539 and de Benalcazar was awarded

governorship of the region. Davidson and I don't mention different dates,

we are dating different occurences in the same time frame.

> The potato was introduced to Spain in the 1550's.

The first printed reference to white potatoes is in Pedro Creca de Leon's

"Chronica del Peru" (1553). Some authorities believe Creca actually

introduced potatoes in the late 1540's. Others speculate on later

introduction. The first evidence of cultivation in Spain is in 1573 when

they appear in a record of provisions purchased for the Hospital de la

Sangre in Seville. Potatoes do not appear in Carolus Clusius' Spanish

Herbal of 1576.

> And also to Italy, but the variety introduced had climatic requirements that

> Spain and Italy could not

> meet and this variety was small, watery and somewhat bitter, and therefore

> unappealing.

Probably true, but I'd like to know the source. The Chilean potato was

better adapted for a temperate climate, but would not have been available

before about 1541 at the earliest. There is a debate about precisely when

Chilean potatoes came to Europe and whether or not they might have been the

source of the potato blight.

> He also

> says, "It is generally accepted that potatoes were introduced to the

> British Isles (including Ireland) during the 1590's."

Generally accepted, doesn't mean it is necessarily so. However, Johnna was

able to provide me with a reference to a 1606 land lease in County Down for

growing flax and potatoes. Presumably in 1663, the Royal Society urged that

potatoes be grown as famine food, so cultivation may not have been widespread.

> He goes on to relate that Protestants refused to plant potatoes

> and one reason was that they weren't mentioned in the Bible. Irish

> Catholics got around this

> by "sprinkling their seed potatoes with holy water and planting them on

> Good Friday."

Source?

> Davidson goes on to say that Gerard appears to have "muddled" potatoes

> with another American tuber called "openauk".

> Huette

This is a debated point. How you muddle potatoes with groundnuts when

neither has been described in the scientific literature is something of a

mystery to me, but I will assume it can happen.

Gerard refers to the plants as "potatoes of Virginia" and there were no

potatoes in cultivation in North America prior to the 18th Century.

Openauk is commonly considered to be Apios americana, the American

groundnut, which was growing in Virginia at the time. You will find it

mentioned in Thomas Hariot's "A Briefe and True Report of the New Found Land

in Virginia" (1588). It may be that the plants Gerard received in 1586 were

groundnuts, but they might also be South American potatoes.

The problem is the samples were brought to England in 1586 by the fleet that

rescued the Roanoke colonists (the first colony, the second colony of 1587

is the one that disappeared). The fleet, under the command of Francis

Drake, had been engaged in looting the Spanish and had seized and sacked

Cartagena, Colombia during which stay, he reprovisioned his ships. Drake

then sailed northward to Florida and along the North American coast to

Virginia before striking for home. With more ships than men to sail them,

Drake was quite willing to turn several over to the colonists to sail them

home. The potatoes Gerard received could have been South American potatoes

taken in the sack of Cartagena and delivered by one of the Virginia

colonists.

In any event, the key player in the introduction of the potato to Northern

Europe is Carolus Clusius, who received his first sample in 1587 and

disseminated samples to other botanists across Northern Europe. The record

of how and where he got his sample is recorded in his 1601 herbal, "I

received the first authentic information about this plant from Phillipus de

Sivry, Dn. De Walhain and the Prefect of the City of Mons in Hannonia, of

the Belgians, who sent two tuber of it, with its fruit, to me in Vienna,

Austria, at the beginning of the year 1587; and in the following year, a

drawing of the branch with a flower. He wrote that he had received it the

preceeding year from a certain employee of the Pontifical Legation in Belgium. .

"The Italians do not know where they were first produced. Certain it is,

however, that they were obtained either from Spain or from America. It is a

great wonder to me that, when it was so comman and frequent in the Italian

settlements (so they say), that they feast upon these tubers, cooked with

the flesh of mutton, in the same manner as upon turnips and carrots, they

give themselves the advantage of such nourishment, and allow news of the

plant to reach us in such an off-hand way. Now, indeed, in many gardens in

Germany it is quite common because it is very fruitful."

Bear

Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 17:23:38 -0700 (PDT)

From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] musings on nightshade

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

--- Terry Decker <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net> wrote:

> He goes on to relate that Protestants refused to plant potatoes

>> and one reason was that they weren't mentioned in the Bible. Irish

>> Catholics got around this

>> by "sprinkling their seed potatoes with holy water and planting them

>> on Good Friday."

> Source?

It is hard to tell where he found that. His bibliography is huge [26 pages]. At the end of the entire article he gives us these books for further reading. Since I have neither of them, I can't tell you which provided what. Or if he found this someplace else entirely. I could tell you to ask him, but that might take a ouija board or a medium.

Barehan, Lindsay

In Praise of the Potato. London, Grafton Books, 1991.

Robyns, Gwen

The Potato Cookbook. London, Pan Books, 1980.

You really need to buy his book. It is only $30 in paperback new. It

is the winner of the James Beard Foundation Book Award.

Huette

Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 21:43:49 -0500

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] musings on nightshade

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> Barehan, Lindsay

> In Praise of the Potato. London, Grafton Books, 1991.

> Robyns, Gwen

> The Potato Cookbook. London, Pan Books, 1980.

> You really need to buy his book. It is only $30 in paperback new. It is

> the winner of the James Beard Foundation Book Award.

> Huette

'Tis a wonder that the poor white potato draws such fire when the same could

be said of the sweet potato, tomato, chili pepper, etc. It makes me think

the tales are apocryphal. If it's not, then I shouldn't have to waken the

old boy from his final repose, it will be documented somewhere.

I haven't heard of the two books listed, but I would have chosen:

Salaman, Redcliffe N., The History and Social Influence of the Potato and

Hawkes, J.G., The Potato: Evolution, Biodiversity, and Genetic Resources,

which probably says something about the way each of us thinks.

I should break down and get The Oxford Companion to Food, but other

interesting tomes keep bubbling up to the top of the list.

Bear

Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 10:04:07 -0400

From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] musings on nightshade

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

I am sorry but Bareham and Robyns are the sources for the cookery section.

The history section in the OUP hardcover lists Wilson and Salaman.

This would be--

C. Anne Wilson's Food and Drink in Britain 1973 and this classic work

The History and Social Influence of the Potato by Redcliffe N. Salaman.

The second edition is edited by J. G. Hawkes

and is still available in paperback from Cambridge University Press.

Once you've acquired Salaman, another that fits in nicely is The Story

of the Potato

through Illustrated Varieties by Alan Wilson. It's a UK work on heirloom

varieties of the last 250 years and the history of the potato. Bear later

mentioned

<>and > Hawkes, J.G., The Potato: Evolution, Biodiversity, and GeneticResources,

> which probably says something about the way each of us thinks.

He's of course the editor of the earlier Salaman book.

Hope this helps

Johnnae

> --- Bear asked-- what sources Alan Davidson used--

> Huette von Ahrens wrote:

> It is hard to tell where he found that. His bibliography is huge [26

> pages]. At the end of the

> entire article he gives us these books for further reading. Since I

> have neither of them, I

> can't tell you which provided what. Or if he found this someplace

> else entirely. I could tell

> you to ask him, but that might take a ouija board or a medium.

> Barehan, Lindsay In Praise of the Potato. London, Grafton Books, 1991.

> Robyns, Gwen The Potato Cookbook. London, Pan Books, 1980.

> You really need to buy his book. It is only $30 in paperback new. It

> is the winner of the James Beard Foundation Book Award.

> Huette

Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 12:12:30 -0700 (PDT)

From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] musings on nightshade

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

--- Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu> wrote:

> I am sorry but Bareham and Robyns are the sources for the cookery section.

> The history section in the OUP hardcover lists Wilson and Salaman.

> This would be--

> C. Anne Wilson's Food and Drink in Britain 1973 and this classic work

> The History and Social Influence of the Potato by Redcliffe N. Salaman.

> The second edition is edited by J. G. Hawkes

> and is still available in paperback from Cambridge University Press.

I missed that in the Penguin version. It was on another page. It is

there also. Sigh.

Huette

Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 18:11:40 -0500

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] musings on nightshade

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Hawkes is the editor for the latest edition of Salaman. Having completed

that, he wrote his own book on the potato to cover work that has been done

since Salaman wrote his text. I gather these are the two "must have" books

for scientists studying Solanum tuberosum.

Bear

>> I haven't heard of the two books listed, but I would have chosen:

>> Salaman, Redcliffe N., The History and Social Influence of the Potato

> This is listed in his bibliography, so it must have been used.

> and

>> Hawkes, J.G., The Potato: Evolution, Biodiversity, and Genetic Resources,

>> which probably says something about the way each of us thinks.

> This isn't in his bibliography.

> Huette

Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 11:00:22 -0500

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Feast

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

And did the people who provided the recipe give you a citation of sources,

or did they just assure you it was period? Acceptance of bad scholarship

promotes error.

The recipe in question is probably derived from Aresty's The Delectable Past

wherein is a recipe for Rosti said to be taken from "an early German

cookbook" (the cookbook of Anna Weckerin, which is about 1598, IIRC). I'm

cautious when dealing with Aresty as she does not include precise sources or

original recipes in her work. I've been looking for a number of years and

I've yet to find the source, a transcription or a translation of the

Rosti recipe.

As for potatoes in Europe, the earliest reference is from Spain in the

1570's. Gerard received his samples in 1586. And Carollus Clusius, who is

probably responsible for the spread of potatoes to botanists across Northern

Europe, received his first sample in 1587. In 1601, Clusius noted," It is

a great wonder to me that, when it was so comman and frequent in the Italian

settlements (so they say), that they feast upon these tubers, cooked with

the flesh of mutton, in the same manner as upon turnips and carrots, they

give themselves the advantage of such nourishment, and allow news of the

plant to reach us in such an off-hand way."

In 1591, Wilhelm IV von Hessen wrote to Christian I von Sachsen and included

a recipe for taratouphili in the letter. "We also send to your Highness

among other things a plant that we got from Italy some years ago, called

Taratouphli (.) Below, at the root, there hand many tubers. If they are

cooked these tubers are very good to eat. But you must first boil them in

water, so that the outer shell (peeling?) gets off, then pour the cooking

water away, and cook them to the point in butter."

So, pot roast or stew and boiled potatoes, but no Rosti.

Personally, for a feast, I would choose sweet potatoes over white potatoes.

There are a number of actual recipes and historical evidence that they were

well known and in much wider use than white potatoes.

Bear

Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 12:32:49 -0400

From: Elaine Koogler <ekoogler1 at comcast.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Feast

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Terry Decker wrote:

> So, pot roast or stew and boiled potatoes, but no Rosti.

> Personally, for a feast, I would choose sweet potatoes over white

> potatoes. There are a number of actual recipes and historical evidence

> that they were well known and in much wider use than white potatoes.

> Bear

I agree. There's a wonderful late period recipe that I found in Dining

with William Shakespeare:

_Stewed Potatoes_

* *

1 1/2 pounds sweet potatoes

1 pound tart cooking apples

5 tbsp. Brown sugar

1/4 tsp. cinnamon

1/2 tsp. ginger

4 tbsp. Butter, diced

1/3 cup white wine vinegar

1/4 cup candied orange peel, diced

Bake the potatoes in their skins for 30 minutes at 400°. Peel them and

cut them into thin slices. Core and peel the apples and slice them thin.

Mix 3 tbsp. of the sugar with the cinnamon and ginger. Butter a

casserole with one tbsp. of the butter and put a layer of sliced apples

into it. Sprinkle a little of the sugar-spice mixture and bits of diced

butter over them. Cover with a layer of sliced potatoes, sprinkle a

little of the sugar-spice mixture and dot with butter. Continue layering

apples and potatoes as abofve until all are in the casserole.

Pour the wine vinegar over the top and sprinkle with the remaining two

tbsp. of sugar. Cover and bake at 350° for 40 minutes or until the

potatoes and apples are tender. Dot the dish with candied orange peel

and serve hot.

Original: Boyle or roast your Potatoes very tender, and blanch [peel]

them; cut them into thin slices, put them into a dish or stewing pan,

put to them three or foure Pippins sliced thin, a good quantity of

beaten Ginger and Cynamon, Verjuice, Sugar and butter; stew these

together an hour very softly; dish them being stewed enough, putting to

them Butter and Verjuice beat together, and stick it full of green

Sucket or Oreengado, or some such liquid sweet-meat; sippit it and

scrape Sugar on it, and serve it up hot to the table. – Joseph Cooper,

/The Art of Cookery Refin’d and Augmented./

Lorwin, Madge. /Dining with William Shakespeare./

This is a wonderful dish and one that I suspect teens might like. I also

like the other things you've chosen. They seem to be mostly familiar

things and you're doing something that I think is great...kids get a big

kick out of learning that something they've been eating all their lives,

like macaroni and cheese, is actually a Medieval dish...like Loysyns.

Kiri

Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 18:16:18 -0600

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] OOP: Question about potato types...

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Ipomoea batatas is Ipomoea batatas and is purely New World. Apparently they

come in a fairly wide range of creams, yellows and oranges, but we usually

get stuck with the orange sweet potato because that is what everybody

expects. There may be a textural difference with the lighter colored sweet

potatoes, but the orange ones should work okay.

Bear

> Oddly, though, there's a note with the recipe talking about the specific

> type of potato to be used. The author describes these sweet potatoes as

> "longer than ordinary potatoes ...[with] a pinkish or yellowish skin with

> yellow or white flesh."

> I'm not sure if they're talking about the American standard sweet potato/yam

> or not, since I would describe the coloring of mine as a dark orange. Are

> there types of potatoes used in Indian cooking that are not widely known

> here in the US? Would my American yam/sweet potato work well enough?

> --Maire, in the mood for some serious beta-carotene ;o)

Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 16:41:06 -0800 (PST)

From: Pat <mordonna22 at yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] OOP: Question about potato types...

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

I don't know, it may be a different variety. However, IMO, of the

sweet potatoes we buy here in the Southeastern U.S., the stouter,

orange fleshed ones tend to be sweeter and fuller tasting than the

longer, yellow fleshed ones. The yellow ones tend to more often

taste as if they hadn't had sufficient time or nutrients or something

to get completely and properly "ripe".

Mordonna

Lady Anne du Bosc

known as Mordonna the Cook

Shire of Thorngill, Meridies

Mundanely, Pat Griffin of Millbrook, AL

Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 08:30:22 -0600

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Penguins and potatoes was medieval dog

recipes

To: <gedney1 at iconn.net>, "Cooks within the SCA"

<sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> I had always understood that the references to Virginia Potatoes

> were to Jerusalem Artichokes...

> Capt Elias

Let's dispel that idea with two quotes (lifted from Cindy Renfrow's

website) from Gerard's Herbal:

"Flos Solis Pyramidalis. Jerusalem Artichoke.

These rootes are dressed in diuers waies; some boile them in water, and

after stew them with sacke and butter, adding a little Ginger: others bake

them in pies, putting Marrow, Dates, Ginger, Raisons of the Sun, Sacke, &c.

Others some other way, as they are led by their skill in Cookerie. But in my

iudgement, which way soeuer they be drest and eaten they stirre and cause a

filthie loathsome stinking winde within the bodie, thereby causing the belly

to bee pained and tormented, and are a meat more fit for swine, than

men..."

"Battata Virginiana, siue Virginianorum, & Pappus. Virginian Potatoes.

The temperature and vertues be referred vnto the common [sweet] Potatoes,

being likewise a food, as also a meate for pleasure, equall in goodnesse and

wholesomenesse vnto the same, being either rosted in the embers, or boyled

and eaten with oyle, vinegar, and pepper, or dressed any other way by the

hand of some cunning in cookerie."

While these quotes are from the 1633 edition of the Herbal, it is obvious

Gerard knew the difference between the two plants, ergo Virginia Potatoes

and Jerusalem Artichokes are two different critters.

It is possible that the plant in question is a root the natives called

Openauk, as described in Thomas Heriot's (or Hariot) "A briefe and true

report of the new found land of Virginia..." (

http://docsouth.unc.edu/nc/hariot/hariot.html ) as quoted here:

"OPENAVK are a kind of roots of round forme, some of the bignes of

walnuts, some far greater, which are found in moist & marish grounds growing

many together one by another in ropes, or as thogh they were fastnened with

a string. Being boiled or sodden they are very good meate."

The other possibility put forth is they are potatoes from the sack of

Cartagena.

Gerard received his specimens in 1586 and his nomenclature ties the

speciemens to Virginia. He either received them from a member of the fleet

that had returned from its last stop in Virginia or he received them from

someone who already had specimens they were working with. The former favors

the white potato, but can not rule out the Openauk. The latter would almost

certainly be an Openauk.

In support of the Cartagena theory is the historical record of Drake's

fleet. El Draco's Caribbean raid was with a fleet of over 20 ships and 2400

men. By the time they reached Virginia, the fleet has in bad shape with

over half of the men dead and many others sick. The colonists weren't doing

well, so Drake consolidated his crews and gave the colonists the ships they

needed to come home. Given the state of the colony, they probably didn't

have much to resupply a vessel and most of the stores would have been what

was left from Cartagena and St. Augustine (Florida), if any stores were

siezed during their last raid.

Solanum tuberosum from other sources were described by other naturalists

over the next 15 years, so Gerard's Potatoes of Virginia are more curiosity

than serious consideration. Since we haven't discovered any information

about who and where he received the specimens from, all references to what

they were and their place of origin is speculation and opinion. Being of a

pyratical bent, I kinda like the Cartagena theory. Choose the one you like.

The only requirement is it fit the facts and it be labelled speculation.

Bear

Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 21:00:06 -0600

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Anna Wecker and sauteed potatoes

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

I decided to waste a little time chasing the elusive "Rosti" recipe of Anna

Wecker as presented by Esther B. Aresty in The Delectible Past. So I went

to Aresty to examine the evidence.

Aresty states, "...and in 1598 one Swiss cook--Anna Weckerin--completed the

first cookbook ever written by a woman. A recipe in it bore a close

resemblence to Rosti..."

This says to me that Aresty is prone to overstatement and error. Anna

Wecker did not complete the first cookbook written by a woman, although she

is probably the first to have a cookbook published and distributed by a

commercial printer. The original publication was in 1597. And "a close

resemblence" is an unscholarly excuse to segue to a modern recipe. Of

interest to me, was the fact that Wecker does not appear in the list of

Aresty's collection as presented in The Delectible Past, therefore, we have

no idea which edition was being quoted.

According to Henry Notaker, the original Wecker, Ein kostlich new Kochbuch,

was first published by Forster in Amberg, Germany in 1597. Forster also

released editions in 1598, 1600, and 1607. A 1609 edition was released by

Ludwig Konig of Basel. An expanded and revised 1620 edition by Konig was

renamed, New kostlich and nutzliches Kochbuch. In Notaker's opinion, the

expanded recipes were taken from Johann Deckhardt's New Kunstreich und

Nutzliches Kochbuch published in Leipzig in 1611. Konig's editions of 1652,

1667, and 1679 appear to be copies of the 1620 edition.

If Notaker's publication history of Wecker is accurate, and I have no reason

to believe it is not, it is possible that the recipe for potatoes referenced

by Aresty is actually an early 17th Century artifact from Deckhardt rather

than Wecker.

Bear

Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 12:03:22 +0100

From: Volker Bach <carlton_bach at yahoo.de>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Anna Wecker and sauteed potatoes

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Am Dienstag, 31. Januar 2006 04:00 schrieb Terry Decker:

>>>

I decided to waste a little time chasing the elusive "Rosti" recipe of Anna Wecker as presented by Esther B. Aresty in The Delectible Past. So I went to Aresty to examine the evidence.

Aresty states, "...and in 1598 one Swiss cook--Anna Weckerin-- completed the first cookbook ever written by a woman. A recipe in it bore a close resemblence to Rosti..."

<<<

Does she give a page reference or name? I have a reprint of the 1598 edition here, and I can't find anything that would suggest pan-fried potatoes or root vegetables. De Rontzier (roughly the same timeframe) has a recipe for these (we are not entirely sure which ones. He calls them 'Erdnuess' - earth nuts - which led modern interpreters to read peanuts), but they don't involve eggs

or bacon, but sugar and orange juice.

>>>

This says to me that Aresty is prone to overstatement and error. Anna Wecker did not complete the first cookbook written by a woman, although she is probably the first to have a cookbook published and distributed by a commercial printer. The original publication was in 1597. And "a close resemblence" is an unscholarly excuse to segue to a modern recipe. Of interest to me, was the fact that Wecker does not appear in the list of Aresty's collection as presented in The Delectible Past, therefore, we have no idea which edition was being quoted.

<<<

Most likely the 1598, as it is AFAIK the only one that was reprinted in facsimile.

>>>

If Notaker's publication history of Wecker is accurate, and I have no reason to believe it is not, it is possible that the recipe for potatoes referenced by Aresty is actually an early 17th Century artifact from Deckhardt rather than Wecker.

<<<

It may as well be a misunderstanding. Many German dialects at the time used words like 'Erdäpfel' (earth apples) and Erdnüsse (earth nuts) for various roots or tubers of uncertain species. Today, these words denote potatoes and peanuts, respectively, but at the time of their introduction, they did not, or at least not exclusively. A mid-18th century north German cookbook still

distinguishes between 'Bataten' (prob. sweet potatoes, though these may be regular potatoes) and 'Erdaepfel' (probably potatoes, though this may still be a reference to some old world roots).

Giano

Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 12:12:47 -0500

From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Anna Wecker and sauteed potatoes

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

There are 1598 editions, but they are very rare. Only one copy at LC and one copy in Germany are listed. Indiana's Lilly Library has another. Aresty apparently owned this edition:

Author: Wecker, Anna, d. 1596 or 7.

Title: Ein köstlich new Kochbuch von allerhand Speisen an Gemüsen, Obs, Fleisch, Geflügel, Wildpret, Fischen vnd Gebachens : nicht allein für Gesunde, sondern auch vnd fürnemlich für Krancke, in allerley Kranckheiten vnd Gebresten, auch schwangere Weiber, Kindbetterinnen, vnd alte schwache Leuthe ... dergleichen vormals nie im Truck aussgangen / Alles mit sonderm Fleiss beschrieben durch F. Anna Weckerin, Weiland Herrn D. Johann Jacob Weckers, des berühmten Medici seeligen, nachgelassene Wittib.

Publisher: Getruckt zu Basel : In Verlegung Ludwig Königs, Anno

Domini 1605.

Description: Book [16], 346, [8] p. ; 16 cm. (8vo)

You'll note that this edition isn't listed by Notaker. Cagle in his bibliography says that the 1597 edition has been listed but no edition has been found. See A Matter of Taste for more details.

Johnnae

>>>>>

I decided to waste a little time chasing the elusive "Rosti" recipe of Anna Wecker as presented by Esther B. Aresty in The Delectible Past. So I went to Aresty to examine the evidence. <snipped>

Of interest to me, was the fact that Wecker does not appear in the list of Aresty's collection as presented in The Delectible Past, therefore, we have no idea which edition was being quoted.

<<<<<

Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 10:42:27 -0600

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Anna Wecker and sauteed potatoes

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

>> Aresty states, "...and in 1598 one Swiss cook--Anna Weckerin--completed

>> the first cookbook ever written by a woman. A recipe in it bore a close

>> resemblence to Rosti..."

> Does she give a page reference or name? I have a reprint of the 1598 edition

> here, and I can't find anything that would suggest pan-fried potatoes or root

> vegetables. De Rontzier (roughly the same timeframe) has a recipe for these

> (we are not entirely sure which ones. He calls them 'Erdnuess' - earth nuts -

> which led modern interpreters to read peanuts), but they don't involve

> eggs or bacon, but sugar and orange juice.

What you see is what you get. Aresty does not give accurate

bibliographic

references, decent footnotes, original recipes or accurate adaptations.

Erdnuess could as easily be an American groundnut (Apios americana) as

peanuts, and the groundnut would grow better in Germany. Without a careful

linguistic analysis, I'd be hesitant to declare them peanuts, groundnuts or

whatever. I have some reservations about how quickly peanuts spread in

Europe.

> It may as well be a misunderstanding. Many German dialects at the time used

> words like 'Erdäpfel' (earth apples) and Erdnüsse (earth nuts) for various

> roots or tubers of uncertain species. Today, these words denote potatoes and

> peanuts, respectively, but at the time of their introduction, they did not,

> or at least not exclusively. A mid-18th century north German cookbook still

> distringuishes between 'Bataten' (prob. sweet potatoes, though these may be

> regular potatoes) and 'Erdaepfel' (probably potatoes, though this may

> still be a reference to some old world roots).

> Giano

At least one German linguist ties Erdapfel to "melopepones," a round, ribbed

cucurbit, which at the time the Latin noun was coined, would have been a

melon. At the end of the 16th Century in Germany, Erdapfel could have

easily been a New World squash. By the 18th Century, the name could have

been transferred to white potatoes. I too would suspect "Bataten" to be

sweet potatoes.

There is a late 16th Century letter exchange between the rulers of Saxony

and Hesse (IIRC the states), where the preparation of potatoes is discussed

and the reference is to Tartoffelen (sic?).

Bear

Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 16:52:42 -0600

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Anna Wecker and sauteed potatoes

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

>> Of interest to me, was the fact that Wecker does not appear in the

>> list of Aresty's collection as presented in The Delectible Past,

>> therefore, we have no idea which edition was being quoted.

> Most likely the 1598, as it is AFAIK the only one that was

> reprinted in facsimile.

> Giano

From the sound of this you're making the assumption that Aresty used a

facsimile edition. I believe you will find the first facsimile (1598)

edition was a German publication in 1977. Aresty's The Delectible Past was

published in 1964.

Aresty was a noted collector of old cookbooks, largely in manuscript or

first edition. She was also a well known author on matters culinary and was

well connected in the academic community, being a Princeton faculty wife.

She might consider using a facsimile a little gauche.

Johnna has shown that she probably owned a 1605 Konig edition of Wecker by

1996 when Aresty donated her collection to the University of Pennsylvania.

However, to quote Aresty in The Delectible Past, "I have not included the

many German books; they begin with Ein Koch und Erzen Buch, Gratz, 1686."

This suggests that she had not yet added a copy of Wecker to her collection

in 1964, which leaves the question of which edition she was referencing wide

open.

Bear

Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 07:12:48 -0500

From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Anna Wecker and sauteed potatoes

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

The original book was written for a general audience.

Footnotes in a popular cookbook published by Simon & Schuster.

Surely you jest. So no footnotes,

but she really assembled a collection--

http://www.library.upenn.edu/exhibits/rbm/aresty/aresty1.html

Johnnae

> Great, like we need to create *more* mysteries in our line of

> business...

> Thanks for the input. You'd think a Princeton faculty wife would

> know what a footnote is for.

> Giano

Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 16:26:13 -0500

From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd at gate.net>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Potato question

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Well, for what it is worth ,the words potato and potatoes are each

Mentioned once in the Bard's plays.

Let the sky rain potatoes. Falstaff, The Merry Wives of Windsor, 5,5

Reay Tannahill in "Food in History" 2nd ed. Writes in their regard:

"By 1573 they were common enough for the Hospital de la Sangre to order them

in at the same time as other stocks." Salaman, p. 143 "The History and

Influence of the Potato" 1949. According to her "it reached England direct

from the Americas when Sir Francis Drake, on the way to Virginia in 1586,

put into Cartagena in the Caribbean to revictual and brought some home with

him."

Magulonne Toussaint-Samat in "History of Food" asserts that the potato was

painted in its botanical splendor in water color in approximately 1580 by

Pierre de l'Ecluse.

The OED suggests that there is some confusion in the 16th and 17th centuries

regards the plant the word refers to. It cites the earliest use of the

word as batatos to 1555.

Daniel

Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 08:49:29 -0600

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: Potato question

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> Well, for what it is worth ,the words potato and potatoes are each

> mentioned once in the Bard's plays.

> Let the sky rain potatoes. Falstaff, The Merry Wives of Windsor, 5,5

There are actually a couple of references to potatoes in Shakespeare,

but these are references to sweet potatoes, the common potato of the day.

> Magulonne Toussaint-Samat in "History of Food" asserts that the potato was

> painted in its botanical splendor in water color in approximately

> 1580 by Pierre de l'Ecluse.

Really? I think Toussaint-Samat is in error. Charles de l'Ecluse (Carolus

Clusius), by his own statement, received his first specimen of Solanum

tuberosum in 1587. I've done quite a bit of research on the subject and

never encountered Pierre de l'Ecluse in relation to the potato (if vague

memory serves, he was Charles father, and I wouldn't stand by that until I

double checked it).

> The OED suggests that there is some confusion in the 16th and 17th centuries

> regards the plant the word refers. It cites the earliest use of

> the word as batatos to 1555.

> Daniel

The quote you reference is from a translation of Peter Martyr and begins,

"In Hispanola,..." As Martyr wrote the work in 1511-12, the plant being

referenced is the sweet potato (Ipomea batata). The first reference to

(sweet) potatoes is actually found in Christopher Columbus's journal of his

first voyage to America. The potatoes referenced in most of the 16th

Century English texts can be shown to be sweet potates by time and location.

One possible exception is Drake's circumnavigation and his replenishing

stores off the coast of Chile.

The confusion appears to begin with Gerard's identification of "potatoes of

Virginia."

Bear

Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 22:15:26 -0500

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] suggestions

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> But forget the potatoes and green beans. They are not period.

> Huette

Not exactly. There is a letter from Wilhelm IV von Hessen to Christian I

von Sachsen describing the preparation of taratouphli and dated 1591,

wherein one finds the following recipe:

The preparation of Taratouphli (1591)

Translated by Thomas Gloning

"We also send to your Highness among other things a plant that we got from

Italy some years ago, called Taratouphli (.) Below, at the root, there hand

many tubers. If they are cooked these tubers are very good to eat. But you

must first boil them in water, so that the outer shell (peeling?) gets off,

then pour the cooking water away, and cook them to the point in butter."

In general, sweet potatoes (also called the common potato or the Spanish

potato) were more common in late period cooking.

Bear

Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 22:43:35 -0500

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>

Subject: Re: potatoes and personal "issues" ; )....was RE: [Sca-cooks]

suggestions

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

I find Gerard a little iffy. White potatoes don't show up in Northern

Europe until 1586-87. Sweet potatoes, on the otherhand, could have been

introduced into England as early as 1509 or as late as 1570. Hawkins writes

about eating them in the Caribbean in 1563 and it is very possible that he

introduced them into England 10 years earlier from his raids on the

Portuguese slave trade.

If you really wanted to play with white potatoes at a feast, I'd go very

late German, using Rumpolt's recipes for turkey and erdapfel (which I would

translate as a New World round shaped squash) and the recipe I posted a

little bit ago for white potaotes. Maybe a little Rotkohl.

Bear

Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 07:50:20 -0500

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] suggestions

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> Most of what I can read of taratouphli online is that one or two sites say

> it was the Virginian Potato. Is that the sweet potato?

> Lyse

"Potatoes of Virginia" is from Gerard and he received those in 1586. The

problem is there were no potatoes (sweet or white) in Virginia at the time.

Either Gerard is describing a tuberous plant that is not Solanum tuberosum

or the potatoes were from the provisions taken at Cartagena by Sir Francis

Drake (Drake's returning fleet brought the original Virginia colony back to

England). It is believed that Drake encountered white potatoes in Chile in

his circumnavigation of the world and would have recognized them as food.

Considering his entry on sweet potatoes, it is obvious Gerard knew the

difference:

"Sisarum Peruvianum, siue Batata Hispanorum. Potato's.

The Potato roots are among the Spaniards, Italians, Indians, and many other

nations common and ordinarie meate; which no doubt are of mighty and

nourishing parts... being tosted in the embers they lose much of their

windinesse, especially being eaten sopped in wine.

Of these roots may be made conserues no lesse toothsome, wholesome, and

dainty than of the flesh of Quinces: and likewise those comfortable and

delicate meats called in shops Morselli, Placentulae, and diuers other such like.

These Roots may serue as a ground or foundation whereon the cunning

Confectioner or Sugar-Baker may worke and frame many comfortable delicate

Conserues, and restoratiue sweete meates.

They are vsed to be eaten rosted in the ashes. Some when they be so rosted

infuse them and sop them in Wine; and others to giue them the greater grace

in eating, do boyle them with prunes, and so eate them. And likewise others

dresse them (being first rosted) with Oyle, Vineger, and salt, euerie man

according to his owne taste and liking. Notwithstanding howsoeuer they bee

dressed, they comfort, nourish, and strengthen the body, procuring bodily

lust, and that with greedinesse."

Other than Gerard's samples, most of the botanical samples of Solanum

tuberosum in Northern Europe appear to derive from samples originally

presented to the Pope from Spain and grown in the Vatican gardens. There is

also a high probability that other samples were imported into Italy from

Spain and grown there. The plant was commonly christened "taratouphli"

because the small tubers resembled truffles.

In German, taratouphli became die Kartoffel, while the sweet potato is die

Batata. BTW, batata is Taino for sweet potato and its use is a direct

derivation via Spain.

Other than the webbed entry for potatoes from The Cambridge World History of

Food, I have yet to see a site that is both thorough and accurate when

discussing potatoes. The fact is the information on a great many websites

has been plagarized from easy to find sources by people unwilling to do

basic research, the errors and opinions propagate and are accepted as fact.

For example, I encountered a number of sources that state that Jiminez

Gonzalo de Quesada discovered white potatoes. The reality is that de

Quesada was the leader of an expedition into Ecuador and the founder of

modern Quito and his expedition was the first into the original potato

growing regions of the Andes. This discounts the fact that there were two

other expeditions in the area at the same time or the possibility that

Pizzaro might have encountered potatoes slightly earlier.

I've been chasing information on potatoes for a number of years and I keep

finding enough references that I need to revise my SCA lecture on potatoes

every year or two.

Bear

Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 11:03:00 -0500

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] suggestions

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> Wouldn't that depend on the definition of 'Virginia' at the time? We know

> that sweet potatoes were being grown in the Caribbean, South America and

> tropical North America at the time, so it's quite possible that (except

> for the effects of the 'little ice age' in America), sweet potatoes may

> have been growing in what is now North Carolina.

Virginia has a specific meaning in this context and it relates directly to

the first Roanoke Colony founded on Roanoke Island in 1585 and returned to

England in 1586. Thomas Hariot's "A Briefe and True Report of the New Found

Land of Virginia" (1588) describes the plants being grown by the natives

and, glory be, potatoes of any description are not among them.

> Of course, calling something 'Virginia' anything doesn't necessarily have

> anything to do with the *origin* of an item, only where it was

> *encountered* by the person whose name for the item stuck: Jerusalem

> Artichoke, Brussel Sprout, Raisins of Corinth, Plaster of Paris, Boston

> Fern, Yorkshire Pudding, etc.

> Someone earlier mentioned introducing sweet potatoes to England and I

> question that, since sweet potatoes can't grow in that cold of a climate

> (and, no, I reject the idea that the entire British Isles are covered with

> green houses :) ), especially during the 'little ice age'.

You can't grow sugar cane in England, but 16th Century England did a lot of

cooking with sugar and cinnamon and ginger and nutmeg. There are some

English recipes for sweet potato from the late 16th and early 17th Century

and a couple of quotes from Shakespere, that suggest England knew and ate

sweet potatoes. While England probably wasn't covered with greenhouse, many

large estates had them and used them to experiment with new plants.

> More likely that Drake found white potatoes in Columbia, not Chile.

> -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

> Tom Vincent

> -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

Really? Most modern potatoes are derived from Chilean plants which were

better adapted to altitude, weather and temperature differences than the

High Andean potatoes.

According to "The famous voyage of Sir Francis Drake into the South Sea, and

hence about the whole globe of the earth, begun in the year of our Lord, 1577,"

Drake anchored at an island off the coast of Chile on 29 November 1578,

where he made contact with the natives and, "...people came down to us to

the waterside with show of great courtesy, bringing to us potatoes, roots,

and two very fat sheep..."

Drake knew sweet potatoes having eaten them during his initial sea venture

under John Hawkins in 1568, so it is believed that the potatoes mentioned

are sweet potatoes. The "roots" are believed to have been white potatoes.

There are other primary sources about the voyage I have not tracked down, so

further information about the foodstuffs may be available.

So in all deference to the speculation, it is equally as likely that Drake

encountered white potatoes in Chile and in Columbia.

Another speculation is that Gerard received samples of Apios americana

rather than Solanum tuberosum and it was A. americana that was described as

"Potatoes of Virginia." The American groundnut was being grown and eaten in

Virginia at the time, so it is as reasonable an explanation as any.

Basically, it's a case of pick yer poison when it comes to what and how

Gerard received his samples.

Bear

Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 14:47:32 -0500

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] suggestions

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> Also, some sweet potato varieties grow all the way up to MA, but I doubt

> that was true during the LIA, so it's possible that someone in the VA area

> actually did have sweet potatoes.

Since there is record of sweet potatoes being introduced to Virginia, the

Carolinas, etc. during the 18th Century, the probability they were there

earlier is minimal. Since a number of the people involved in the original

colonization of Virginia knew sweet potatoes and had eaten them on other

ventures, the fact they didn't mention sweet potatoes being there, suggests

there weren't any to be had. sheep into the local economy

> Potatoes came from the Andes. I don't think the *modern* varieties are

> relevant when looking at where Europeans encountered potatoes. Since

> potatoes didn't catch on very quickly, it may very well have taken several

> Drakes & Raleighs totin' taters for the tuber to take root, so to

> speak. :)

The point is the Chilean subspecies was in existence at the time and capable

of surviving in a wider range of climates. The hardiness of the Chilean

potato made it key in the widespread use of potatoes.

Carolus Clusius is more responsible for the spread of the potato than Drake

or Raleigh. And the Royal Society and Antoine Auguste Parmentier are

certainly more responsible for their adoption as a food crop.

> I'm suspicious of a log entry that talks about 'two very fat sheep' when

> the natives probably were using alpaca and were probas.

You are obviously unfamiliar with the history of colonization on the West

Coast of the Americas. The Spanish founded Valparaiso in 1536 and

introduced sheep and cattle into the area. Alpacas were primarily a

highland mainland animal and Drake was on an island at sea level. I'm also

fairly certain Drake and his crew could tell sheep from some other

critter.

> It's hard to know what Ol' Billy was talking about, since the term

> 'potato' was used for 'sweet potato' and probably yams, too.

> http://www.bartleby.com/65/po/potato.html

> Duriel

Gee, I always thought yams was yams. Anyway, Shakespere's usage suggests

the sweet potato shape rather than that of some other "potato." Unknown

tubers that look like potatoes are "bastard potatoes."

BTW, what sources did Bartleby's reference?

Bear

Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 09:07:46 -0700

From: lilinah at earthlink.net

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Yams, Pumpkins, Pecan Pie, was s'mores?

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

"Mike C. Baker" <kihebard at hotmail.com>

> Pumpkin is dessert, sweet potato can be either side dish or dessert

> depending on preparation. (Yam, which *IS* different biochemically than

> sweet potato, is less likely to appear as dessert than a sweet potato

> dish.)

Well, sometimes a yam isn't a yam.

In the US there are two root vegetables that are actually just

different varieties of the same plant. Both are long relatively

narrow tubers with pointed ends and purplish-brown papery skin. One

has deep orange colored flesh and one has yellow flesh. One is

commonly called a "sweet potato" and the other is commonly called a

"yam" - but in reality this so-called "yam" is just a sweet potato.

Both are varieties of Ipomoea batatas.

I am never sure which is which. One web page said that the deep

orange fleshed variety are what are commonly called "yams" and the

yellow fleshed are commonly called "sweet potatoes". But i grew up in

the Chicago area eating the deep orange fleshed ones and i don't

recall calling them yams.

For photos, see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweet_potato

On the other hand there are starchy tubers in other parts of the

world that have rough, thickish, cocoa-colored skin and a very hard

white interior. Most have relatively little flavor. Some are massive

- up to 7 feet long and 150 pounds - although in supermarkets in the

US that sell them, they are either small, or cut into pieces weighing

a few pounds. These are true yams, the name in English coming

ultimately from the Wolof language "nyami" ("to eat"). There are over

150 varieties of these true yams which are of the genus Dioscorea

(family Dioscoreaceae) and cultivated in and native to Africa, Asia,

Latin America and Oceania.

For photos of some honkin' huge yams and a short list of some

species, see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yam_%28vegetable%29

When i was in Indonesia, we ate several varieties. These were snack

food - cooked, cut in large cubes, rubbed with crumbled "ragi tape' "

which was a dry pastille made of yeast and spices, then allowed to

ferment slightly (doesn't take long in Jakarta's hot humid climate).

Whoa! Wikipedia even has a brief article about tape' !!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tapai

Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)

the persona formerly known as Anahita

Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 00:28:28 -0500

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Rumpolt's Earth Apples

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

<<< We've discussed this topic, and this very recipe, on this list within my

memory. Since "erdapfel" is potato in modern German, some folks assumed

this was a white potato recipe. However, Thomas Gloning, the food scholar

formerly on this list, believed it referred to something else in the 16th

C. His discussions can be found in the Florilegium:

http://www.florilegium.org/files/FOOD-VEGETABLES/potatoes-msg.html

Other mentions on the net include:

http://theoldfoodie.blogspot.com/2006/07/feasting-with-hemingway.html

(erdepffle - a gourd? a fungus? something else?)

Given how late the Andean potato arrived in Europe (around mid-16th

century) and how inconclusive the evidence is for its use (some evidence

that a few daring men eat them, no evidence of their common and frequent

use), i certainly am not going to be cooking them for an SCA feast until

there's more concrete information, and i would not encourage anyone to

cook them.

Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM) >>>

My problem with equating Rumpolt's erdepffle to the white potato is the

recipe is from 1581. John Gerard did not receive a sample until 1586 and

Carolus Clusius, who was the head of the Hapsburg Botanical Gardens in

Vienna, did not receive a sample until 1587. Rumpolt and Clusius were

contemporaries in time and place, so if Rumpolt was preparing white

potatoes, I would expect Clusius to already have samples.

Clusius published an extensive herbal on the plants of Spain in 1572 (IIRC)

and potatoes did not appear in the work, suggesting a limited or

non-existent cultivation in the gateway country before 1570 (when Clusius

was doing his field work, as I remember the timeline).

The earliest definitive European recipe for the white potato I have

encountered is from 1591.

A 1542 translation of Platina into German translates, "Pepones a

malopeponibus..." (I.20) as "Pfeben vnd Erdtoepfel."

Bear

Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 08:46:14 -0400

From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] International Year of the Potato was

Rumpolt's Earth Apples

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

And there's a new volume coming out--

Propitious Esculent: The Potato in World History by John Reader.

Due out in June or July 2008.

http://www.randomhouse.co.uk/catalog/book.htm?command=search&;db=main.txt&eqisbndata=0434013188

It's out in the UK and been reviewed.

http://books.guardian.co.uk/reviews/history/0,,2263377,00.html?gusrc=rss&feed=10

Also -- Here's an interesting website: Potato Underground

Welcome to the Potato Underground! We're a group of potato-lovers

<http://potatounderground.com/?page_id=2>; who will dish up the inside

scoop on all things "tater."

http://www.potatounderground.com/index.php/category/propitious-esculent/

Johnnae

To: Authentic_SCA at yahoogroups.com

Subject: on white potatoes and sweet potatoes

Posted by: "Kathleen Keeler" kkeeler1 at unl.edu

Date: Thu Jan 1, 2009 1:23 pm (PST)

Hi again. Assuming the earlier post is lost, here is what I tried to

say last night. I see my italics don't come through, which is a shame

because they identify scientific names. I removed the comment I was

replying to in hopes this won't vanish like the previous attempt to send

it. -A

Smartt and Simmonds,Evolution of Crop Plants is a series of chapters

written by different authors on the various crops. I have the second

edition, 1995. The chapter on potatoes, Solanum tuberosum, says "The

first recorded European contact with the potato was in 1537 in the

Magdalena Valley. [northern Andes, Colombia]. The Spanish invaders

became familiar with the crop and it was probably about 1570 that a

Spanish ship first introduced potatoes to Europe. Legends

notwithstanding, Raleigh and Drake had no hand in the introduction.

From Spain, potatoes were widely spread round Europe before the end of

the century and were repeatedly the object of writings and drawings by

the herbalists...A source in the northern Andes for the first

introduction to Europe seems likely.

"The potatoes of the central Andes were adapted to the prevailing

short days of those latitudes; they tuber very late or not at all in the

long days of a north temperate summer. Andean potatoes are therefore

ill-adapted to Europe and indeed, it was nearly 200 years before the

crop began to have any significant impact in its new home. By the late

eighteenth century, clones adapted to long days had emerged." (N. W.

Simmonds, U. Edinburgh, Scotland p. 468.)

Looking in the same book at the entry on sweet potatoes, Ipomoea

batatas, I find "Columbus brought the first sweet potatoes from the

Americas to Europe, where they were referred to as "aje". These starchy

types common to the West Indies were not sweet and were compared to

carrots. Subsequent Spanish voyages to Central and South America

brought back a sweeter type of sweet potato called 'batata" and 'patata"

that the Europeans liked better. "( J.R. Bohac, P.D. Dukes, US Vegetable

Laborator, Charleston SC and D.F. Austin Florida Atlantic Univ., p. 57)

Interestingly, these guys go on to add "The Peruvian potato, Solanum

tuberosum (later dubbed Irish potato) was introduced about the same

time. Because it was better adapted in northern Europe, it became the

predominant potato in northern Europe, whlie the sweet potato remained

dominant in southern Europe" (ibid). I guess that refers to after the

18th century, since all but the last 100 years in ancient history to

researchers. (Well, all but the last 5 years for molecular biologists).

Sweet potatoes are a southern US crop, so presumably they still need a

long season.

I had thought the batata came from the Indian name of sweet potatoes.

What I found is: my Latin dictionary gives no word at all like it and my

unabridged English dictionary says potato is from batata which is from a

Haitian word.

Agnes deLanvallei

Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:59:28 -0500

From: Anne-Marie Rousseau <dailleurs at liripipe.com>

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>, "Johnna

Holloway" <johnnae at mac.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Yams was Substitute for Potatoes?

<<< Off hand, I can't think of any recipes in

either the period European or Islamic corpus that use them. I don't

even know if there is any evidence that they were used in the parts

of the world from which we have surviving cookbooks. >>>

Casteaus Ovverature de Cuisine (1604) has recipes for "tartufles". there is some discussion on if that is truffle or potato, but Cotgraves contemporary French:English dictionary describes them as as potatoes.

Served with the proscribed red wine and butter sauce they are lovely :)

--Anne-Marie, who is fully aware that teh occasional recipe for potato or turkey does not make them common fare for most of our sca period, and so thinks that their use should be limited to the wacky crazy nouveau items they were....

Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:32:36 -0400

From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Yams was Substitute for Potatoes?

That would make them circa 1580 as the manuscript for that book

was written a full generation before it was published in 1604. The

dating is included in Scully's version of La Varenne.

Johnnae

Anne-Marie Rousseau wrote:

<<< Casteaus Ovverature de Cuisine (1604) has recipes for "tartufles". there is some discussion on if that is

truffle or potato, but Cotgraves contemporary French:English dictionary describes them as potatoes.

--Anne-Marie >>>

Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 09:40:38 -0700

From: "Anne-Marie Rousseau" <dailleurs at liripipe.com>

To: "'Cooks within the SCA'" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Yams was Substitute for Potatoes?

Hello! My apologies for giving the simplistic explaination.

The original text in casteau describes several recipes for "tartoufles". The

word in medieval Italian (I was told) meant "truffle" but the recipes made

no sense to be truffles....(stewed in red wine and butter? Roasted as one

does chestnuts and served with sauce? )

In 1604, Olivier de Serres published his "theatre d'agriculture et mesange

des champs". Therein he says "this plant, called cartoufle, bears fruits of

the same name resembling truffles and so called by some" this can be paired

with a botanical drawing by another artist, clearly showing a potato vine

and its roots(A History of Food, Toussaint-Samat)

Cotgrave does not give the word tartufle, as written by Casteau. He does

however give the word Cartoufle (described as "a shrub that bears a

mushroom-like fruit, also the fruit itselfe") and a separate entry for

"truffe", which describes "a most daintie kind of round and russet root, or

rootie excrescence, which growes in forests, or dry and sandie grounds, but

without any stalke, leafe or fiber annexed unto it"

We therefore can reach the conclusion that tartufle does NOT mean truffle

(an item that had its own entry) and that cartufle based on cotgraves

description meant potatoes. De Serre says that cartufles are sometimes

called truffles by some (perhaps the Italians?) and there you go.

Definite proof? No, of course not, but a logical conjecture based on several

independent contemporary sources.

Fun stuff, at least I think so :)

--Anne-Marie, who is a total geek sometimes :)

-------- Original Message --------

From: Anne-Marie Rousseau <dailleurs at liripipe.com>

Casteaus Ovverature de Cuisine (1604) has recipes for "tartufles". there

is some discussion on if that is truffle or potato, but Cotgraves contemporary French:English dictionary describes them as as potatoes.

<<< I just looked through Cotgraves and didn't find it. Was it spelled

differently?

- Doc >>>

Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2010 06:45:06 -0400

From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Wellcome Library Receipt Books

On another list someone quoted a 1654 potato pie recipe from

a "cookbook" by Grace Acton that rang no bells with me

as being something that was ever published in the 17th century, so I

went looking.

It turns up in a blog, which led to finding this:

Title Acton, Grace Date 1621 Name Acton, Grace, fl.1621. Description

Collection of cookery and medical receipts.

The upper cover is lettered 'Herbes to season, herbes to cure'. Inside

the upper cover in red ink 'Grace Acton, May 1621'.

http://archives.wellcome.ac.uk/DServe/dserve.exe?dsqIni=dserve.ini&;dsqApp=Archive&dsqDb=Catalog&dsqCmd=Show.tcl&dsqSearch=%28RefNo==%27MS1%27%29

That leads to this page at the Wellcome Library where they are at work

digitizing their recipe manuscripts.

http://library.wellcome.ac.uk/doc_WTL039966.html

Sources Guide: Domestic medicine and receipt books ? 16th & 17th century

Further information about the materials mentioned below can be found

on the Archives and Manuscripts Online Catalogue

Digital versions of all the 17th century manuscripts in this source

guide are accessible via theArchives and Manuscripts Online Catalogue.

Simply search on the relevant MS. reference and open up the catalogue

record to view the PDF. Further information on the recipe books

digitisation project.

16th century

Anne de Croy, 'Recueil d'aulcunes confections et m?dicines', 1533 MS.222

Elisabethe von Gradnekh, Junkhfrawen Elisabethen von Grandnekh Ertzney

Buec hell', 1544 MS.317

Elisabet Schitzin and others, 'Ertzney Biechl', 1581-1668 MS.732

There are dozens of 17th century items.

Something for me to explore this week.

Just thought I'd share

Johnna Holloway