potatoes-msg - 5/15/08
Period white and sweet potato use. Recipes.
NOTE: See also the files: turnips-msg, vegetables-msg, beets-msg, onions-msg, leeks-msg, root-veg-msg.
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Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 06:16:35 -0500 (CDT)
From: alysk at ix.netcom.com (Elise Fleming )
Subject: SC - Re: Yams/Sweet Potatoes
Linnea wrote:
>I have heard that Henry VIII liked sweet potatoes, or yams (which are
>different - one being a root the other a tuber) and ate them often.
>Any comments, recipies or information? I assume that the "they" who
>say this are refering to the African yam and not the New World sweet
>potato. They are similar, hence the trend to call both by the other's
>name.
I just purchased at Pennsic the delightful book _America's First
Cuisines_ by the knowledgeable and reputable Sophie Coe. She gives
some background on yams/sweet potatoes and their transport into Europe.
The sweet potato (Ipomoea batatas) is different from the yam (either
Dioscorea batatas or Dioscorea trifida) and her contention is that the
taste was so different that one would not have been mistaken for the
other. (If you have the book, it's on pp. 19-20).
She mentions that there are 3 kinds of sweet potatoes in the US today:
"an old-fashioned white kind, a hardy dry yellowy kind, and a moist,
sweet, dark orange kind, miscalled a yam." She then gives (above) the
botanical name for yam. "With the New World yams we will have nothing
further to do, except to say that if they are the 'ages' or n~ames"
Columbus and his successors found in the West Indies, they were
considered inferior to sweet potatoes, a quick-growing food fit only
for servants and slaves."
They apparantly were rare even in Spain through the late 1500s. I have
(somewhere) two recipes for using "potatoes" but can only recall having
seen two. Memory says that the recipes are in books from the late
1500s or mid-1600s. Ms. Coe gives some of the background on the spread
of various New World foodstuffs. Some went via Asia and became popular
there before the Europeans embraced that particular food. Some went to
Africa to become a staple before the Europeans ate the same food in any
quantity.
From her comments, she indicates that it is the sweet potato that was
popular, not the "yam" which is a different botanical plant...Although
we, to our infinite confusion, call "sweet potatoes" "yams". Go
figure! :-)
Alys Katharine, still doing loads of laundry from Pennsic. Anyone want
some dried-out bugs??
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 18:08:02 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Re: sca-cooks V1 #346
John and Barbara Enloe wrote:
> There are numerous documentations for potatoes in late period (last 25 or
> so years).
>
> jon
What there is, is _some_ documentation, not especially numerous,
suggesting that sweet potatoes were occasionally eaten in late period,
particularly in Spain, Portugal, and England, more or less as a novelty.
That doesn't mean that white Virginia potatoes were typical of the
cuisines of Medieval Europe, even if the documentation that exists for
sweet potatoes did, in fact, refer to white ones, which are botanically
very different.
It can get confusing, because sweet potatoes are almost invariably
referred to as simply "potatoes", until years later , when it became
necessary to use the qualifiers of "sweet" and "Virginia" or "white". It
is primarily the various illustrated herbals that make it quite clear
that what they call potatoes are actually sweet potatoes.
Adamantius
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 09:20:09 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Late-period is NOT Medieval
>Technically, perhaps. Although I am more inclined to view sweet potatoes as
>the more accurate potato.
<deleted>
>Ras
Richard Hakluyt (1552? - 1616) comments on the superior taste of the
sweet potato, which suggests that he ate them within period. There is
no evidence he converted anyone else to his view of the vegetable.
Bear
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 18:19:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: Bronwynmgn at aol.com
Subject: SC - Fwd: Addition to potato debate from Rialto discussion
<< C. Kevin Kellogg (kellogg at rohan.sdsu.edu) wrote:
: VJARMSTRONG (VJARMSTRONG at UALR.EDU) wrote:
: : Mentioned in herbals but what context? Surely not as a food item at that
: : early date, more likely simply as plant oddities from the New World.
: Unfortunately that site, as wonderful as it is, does not
Well, I looked for biographic data on Clusius in SDSU's library.
I couldn't come up with much. Everyone agrees that he had something to
do with potatoes (the Enclyclopaedia Britannica is more interested in
crediting (blaming?) him for tulips in Holland).
I did, however, find the interesting book, _The History and
Social Influence of the Potato_, by Redcliffe Salaman, 1949, Cambridge
University Press.
He quotes John Gerard's 1599 herbal:
...The roote is thicke, fat, and tuberous; not much differing
either in shape, colour, or taste from the common Potatoes
[this in reference to Peruvian sweet potatoes], saving that
the roots hereof are not so great nor long; ...
This, to me, indicates that at least Gerard ate a potato
prior to 1600, otherwise he could not have commented on it's taste.
Salaman also quotes from a translation of Gaspard Bauhin's
1596 _Phytopinax_:
...The root if of an irregular round shape; it is either
brown or reddish-black, and one digs them up in the winter
lest they should rot, so full are they of sugar. ...
... We have further learnt that this plant is also known
under the name of tartuffli, doubtless because of its
tuberous root, seeing that this is the name by which
one speaks of Truffles in Italy, where one eats these
fruits in a similar fashion to truffles.
This would indicate that the Frenchman Bauhin believed
that the italians were eating potatoes prior to 1600.
Salaman quotes from a translation of the _Theatre d'
Agriculture et Mesnage des Champs_ by Olivier de Serres, published
in 1600.
This shrub, called Cartoufle, bears a fruit of the same
name comparable to truffles, and is so called by some.
It came from Switzerland to the Dauphine, a short time
ago. ... One keeps them during the winter in sand...
Some do not trouble to layer this plant, but let it grow
and fruit at its will, harvesting the crop in due season,
but the tubers do not do so well in the air as in the
ground, thus conforming to the habit of true truffles,
which the cartoufle resembles in shape, though not so well
in colour, as they are lighter than truffles! The skin
not being rough but smooth and moveable. That is the
difference between these fruits. As to the taste, the cook
so dresses all of them so that one can recognize little
difference between them.
So here we have another reference to eating potatoes in
the fashion of truffles.
Carolus Clusius (remember him, this was supposed to be about him)
wrote in his 1601 _Historia Rariorum plantarum_:
... The first mention I recieved of this plant is ... toward
the beginning of the year 1588, ... The Italians do not know
whence they first obtained it, but it is certain that they
got it either from Spain or America. ...although it was so
common and frequent in certain parts of Italy, for it is
said that they used to eat the tubers of it cooked with mutton
in the same manner as they do with turnips and the roots of
carrots. They actually employed it for fodder for pigs.
... But now it has become sufficiently common in many gardens
in Germany since it is so fecund.
I think this is enough evidence to support the eating of
potatoes for very late period German, French, Italian, English,
and Swiss personas, cooked either in the manner of root vegetables
or truffles.
Avenel Kellough
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 15:02:12 -0500 (EST)
From: Mark Schuldenfrei <schuldy at abel.MATH.HARVARD.EDU>
Subject: Re: SC - Deletable PC stuff, only partly to do with food.
potatos aren't period.
margali
I know this was said in gest.... but someone on the Meridiean list made me
aware of an exception..... Let me find it.
Mistress Falada had written"
Just an FYI - Dame Fiona has a period (yes, period) recipe for potatoes.
And before anyone jumps me: I know that the white potatoes we have
today are not the black, oily period variety. However, I have yet
to see the period type any place that I could purchase them. Therefore,
substitutions should be acceptable.
Anyway, Dame Fiona's documentation was good enough to be accepted at her
Grand Chef qualification feast. If anyone is interested, I am sure she
would be glad to share the information.
And later, Dame Fiona herself said:
Second, as far as the potatoes are concerned, the recipe was
published in a German cookbook in 1598. To describe the dish I
would simply have to say "hashbrowns". Is this the same recipe you
are referring to Tibor? Variations of the recipe are available in
many modern cookbooks, but I got it from an English translation of
the original recipe. It is called "Rosti".
Tibor
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 15:55:07 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Period Potatoes
<deleted>
>I had seen that comment before that "Potatoes aren't period" but I don't
>see how this is possible. There were Irish people living during Medival
>times, and potatoes in Ireland are a STAPLE food! In fact, I saw on TLC
>once, where hundreds of thousands of Irish men women and children starved to
>death at one point (sorry, it was a few months ago, and I dont' remember the
>date cited) because of a blight brought in from England that destroyed ALL
>the potato crops on the Island. It left the poor with nothing (as the show
>stated it , "not very little to eat but NOTHING to eat") to eat for many
>months, and the population was devastated. I'm far from an expert in
>Medival cooking, but I do not see how potatoes could be anything but period!
>
>-Laurene
Pardon what may be perceived as a lecture tone, but it's the fastest way
to dump all these facts, which, in this case, are mainly lifted from
James Trager's Foodbook, some of his dates and interpretations are open
to question, but he seems pretty solid on the generally agreed upon
facts.
The white potato and the sweet potato are both New World in origin, so
no potatoes in Europe before 1492. Yams which look like sweet potatoes
are a different species of plant and were common in Asia and Africa.
Gonzalo Jimenez de Quesada found white potatoes being eaten in tha Andes
approximately 1530 C.E. These were apparently shaped like peanuts and
between the size of peanuts and plums. The first written reference to
potatoes is in Pedro de Leon's Cronica del Peru, circa 1553. In general
in the New World, the sweet potato was preferred over the white potato
in size and taste.
The Germans were probably the first Europeans to regularly eat potatoes.
The earliest known recipes appear in Ein Neu Kochbuch, circa 1581. A
century later Frederick William forceable spread the planting of
potatoes in Brandenburg. Fifty years after that, Frederick the Great
spread seeds and cultivation instructions in Prussia.
Apocryphally, Sir Walter Raleigh introduced the potato to England and
grew them on his estates. In 1663, the Royal Society urged the planting
of potatoes to prevent famine with little success. By 1770, they were a
cash crop, sold in the public markets of Britain. They became the basis
of the Irish diet late in the 18th century.
The Great Irish Potato Famine occurred 1845-49. Interestingly, in the
1840s potato famines appear to have been international, affecting every
country dependent upon potatoes. The Irish famine is remembered because
the British government by its inaction used a natural disaster to rid
itself of the problem of the Irish.
Potatoes are mentioned in two of William Shakespeare's plays; The Merry
Wives of Windsor, circa 1600, and Trolius and Cressida, circa 1601.
From the dates, you can plainly see that the existence of potatoes and
the knowledge of potatoes is period. What isn't period is the eating of
potatoes in Europe. While some adventurous souls probably tried them,
they would not have been common to a pre-1600 European feast. The
exception to this, may be Germany, because of the cookbook noted above.
Bear
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 20:10:51 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Period Potatoes
>Can anyone provide the quotes? Gods only know where my copy of Shakespeare
>has gotten to....
>
>Alasdair mac Iain
>James and/or Nancy Gilly
>katiemorag at worldnet.att.net
Let the sky rain potatoes.
The Merry Wives of Windsor (Act V, Scene 5)
How the devil Luxury, with his fat rump and potato-finger, tickles these
together.
Trolius and Cressida (Act V, Scene 2)
The references are probably to sweet potatoes, but it suggests that the
public was probably familiar with the sweet potato even if they didn't
eat it.
Another interesting comment, this from Reay Tannehill's Food in History,
is that in 1573 the Hospital de la Sangre in Seville ordered potatoes at
the same time they did other stocks. Which suggests that potatoes were
being used in Spain, though they may not have been common.
The information is attributed to Salaman, R.N.; The History and Social
Influence of the Potato. I believe this book has been previously been
noted on the list. It is supposed to be the seminal work on the history
of the potato.
Bear
Date: Fri, 7 Nov 1997 22:56:03 -0500 (EST)
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Re: Peanuts, Sweet Potatoes, Etc.
<< Query: "Accepted theory" by whom? Where cited?
Query: "At least 2 centuries before their arrival in Europe" What
date would that make it? The 1500s or earlier? >>
History of Food, Maguelonne Toussaint-Samat (Translated by Anthea Bell); pg.
65.
"The sweet potatoe comes from the equatorial forests of America. A widely
traveled tuber, it reached Polynesia two thousand years ago, and helps to
clarify the problem of contacts between the Pacific Islands and the north
coast of South America. It is an additional proof that Melano-Polynesian
migrations took place in ancient times. Until quite recently it was thought
that the sweet potato was introduced into Africa at the beginning of the
slave trade. We now have to put that date back several centuries, without
knowing how or why it got there. Perhaps across the Pacific, as the intrepid
Polynesian canoeists made their return journey from the coasts of Ecuador or
Columbia to the archipelagos, then on to either Malaysia and South-est Asia
or to East Africa by way of Madagascar. Maize, groundnuts, peppers and
cassava are thought to have accompanied the sweet potato. The coconut palm,
the banana tree and the taro ( a huge root known to the Romans) are also
believed to have travelled in the canoes, together with agricultural
techniques which are remarkably similar in all tropical regions (including
hoeing, brush fires, terrace cultivation and long fallow periods,
.......etc."
Ras
Date: Sat, 8 Nov 1997 12:20:41 -0600 (CST)
From: alysk at ix.netcom.com (Elise Fleming )
Subject: SC - Potatoes (Sweet, Etc.)-LONG
Greetings! Here is some more fodder for discussion. At the end,
Sophie Coe discusses what happened with Gerard and his Herbal. One of
her comments (near the end) would lead to the conclusion that there is
no place in SCA feasts for white potatoes.
Sophie Coe on potatoes, sweet potatoes, and yams: Excerpts from her
book _Americaís First Cuisines_.
(p. 19) "The history of the potato is inextricably mixed with the
history of the sweet potato and that of several other plants as well.
If anyone has doubts as to the utility and necessity of Latin names,
let this be a lesson for them, because the common names, ë[a[así,
ëbatatasí, ëpapatasí, give us only the vaguest idea of what is being
talked about."...
(p. 19) "This being the case we must define our terms. By pototo I
mean the tubers of 'Sonanum tuberosum' and other species of 'Solanum.'
By sweet potato, or 'batata', I mean the thickened roots of 'Ipomoea
batatas'. There are three kinds of sweet potatoes eaten in the United
States today, an old-fashioned white kind, a hardy dry yellow kind, and
a moist, sweet, dark orange kind, miscalled a yam. True yams are
members of the Dioscoridae family, among them one unfortunately named
'Dioscorea batatas' but domesticated in the Old World, and another
named 'Dioscorea trifida', a New World domesticate. With the New World
yams we will have nothing further to do, except to say that if they
were the 'ages' or 'n~ames' Columbus and his successors found in the
West Indies, they were considered inferior to sweet potatoes, a
quick-growing food fit only for servants and slaves."
(p. 20) "The New World history of the sweet potato is complex. The
Uto-Aztecan word 'camotli' seems to be the root of all the words found
for it in the Pacific area, for the sweet potato is found not only in
the New World but also in Polynesia, from Hawaii to Easter Island to
New Zealand.....the sweet potato could have been taken to Polynesia,
either deliberately or on the drifting boat so beloved by the
diffusionists. Polynesians could also have fetched it, although such
visitors were probably much more in danger of being turned into
foodstuffs themselves than returning with novel foodstuffs. The third
possible scenario is that the sweet potato did not stop in Spain when
it arrived there after Columbus but continued its eastward journey, so
that when explorers got to Polynesia in the eighteenth century the
sweet potato had had time to become thoroughly embedded in the culture.
However, when there was a famine in Fukien province in 1593, the
Chinese authorities sent a mission to the island of Luzon to find new
food plants. The commission returned the following year with a new
food plant, the sweet potato, which remains to this day the food of the
indigent in China. The Philippines were of course in contact with
Mexico via the Manila galleons which sailed from Acapulco to Manila and
may have brought sweet potatoes as they brought many other New World
plants."
(p. 21) "The potato, 'Solanum tuberosum' and allies, did not travel as
swiftly as the sweet potato, even if we reject the possibility that the
sweet potato could make it from Spain to the Philippine island of Luzon
in less than a century. The potato was not even seen by the Europeans
until the 1530s, when they conquered the cold highlands of Colombia and
Peru. That is to say, cultivated potatoes were not seen by the
Europeans until that time. More than two hundred species of wild
tuber-bearing potatoes exist in the New World, growing from the state
of Colorado in the United States south to Chile and Argentina, but if
the Europeans ever noticed anybody eating them, they did not record
it."
(p.21) "There was a flurry of descriptions of the potato in the
herbals of the late sixteenth century. It was at this time that the
British botanist Gerard planted the seeds, or perhaps one should say
the potato eyes, of trouble when he confused 'Solanum tuberosum' from
South America with 'Apios tuberosa', the ground nut, which was eaten by
Indians and early colonists in Virginia. For years the
English-speaking world called 'Solanum tuberosum' the Virginia potato
and thought it came from Virginia and had been domesticated there, even
though there were no wild potatoes to be found there, nor any
domesticated ones either."