peppers-msg - 3/8/11

The introduction of various peppers to Europe. Sweet peppers, paprika,
bell peppers, chili peppers.

NOTE: See also the files: vegetables-msg, food-msg, chocolate-msg, 16C-Tomato-art, potatoes-msg, tomato-hist-art, tomatoes-msg, fd-New-World-msg.

************************************************************************
NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.

Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

Thank you,
    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
************************************************************************

From: Uduido at aol.com
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 19:20:49 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: SC - Gulyas Revisited

A few days ago there was a thread on paprika and gulyas if I remember
correctly. Although the following information is not from a period source, it
is from a writer that I admire and respect completely. So for what it's worth
this may provide a start on finally answering the paprika question.

From "Jane Grigson's Vegetable Book", pg.377:

"..........Even after the discovery of America it took time - the red dishes
of Hungarian cookery, paprikas and gulyas, date from the 17th and 18th
centuries only......."

Hope this helps somewhat.

Lord Ras


Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 09:32:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: Uduido at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Green peppers-history

<< When folks speak of 'green peppers' I think of bell peppers. According
 to Organic Gardening, February 1997, the first bell pepper was the
 California Wonder, introduced 1928 CE.  >>

From Jane Grigson's Vegetable Book:

"India andd Hungary, Italy and Spain had to await Columbus to develope what
are now their most typical dishes. Even after the discovery of America it
took time- the red dishes of Hungarian cookery, paprikas and gulyas, date
from the 17th and 18th centuries only. In this country (England) we have
waited longer still. Peppers semm only to have been on sale here (England)
for about 20 years (circa 1958 C.E.), first as an expensive exotic, more
recently as a commonplace.......

There we have it. Green peppers were introduced into England in the late
1950's C.E. Sweet red peppers were introduced into India and Hungary in the
mid to late 17th century.

Lord Ras ( when memory fails, look it up. :-))


Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 13:31:30 -0800
From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Paprika Dishes

At 12:30 PM -0500 11/4/97, Varju wrote:
><< Is there some bit of documentation that would indicate a post-period
>arrival date for paprika in the Hungary region?>>
>
>This is a long story.  From what I've read the Turks brought paprika to
>Hungary during their rule.

I believe the Hungarians thought capsicum peppers were connected with the
turks, as judged by the name for them; I don't know if they were right.
Consider the possibly analogous cases of "turkeys" and "Indian corn." I
have seen it seriously argued that the latter name was not from the
connection to Amerinds but a misidentification with an "Indian Corn"
mentioned by Pliny.

There is a modern book on peppers (Dewitt, Dave and Gerlach, Nancy, The
Whole Chile Pepper Book, Little, Brown Co., Boston 1990. ) that refers to
Capsicums in Hungary in 1569 in a noblewoman's garden, called "turkish red
pepper." I don't know if they were the particular variety used for paprika,
or how early we have recipes. I have been unable to find any period
Hungarian cookbooks.

David/Cariadoc
http://www.best.com/~ddfr/


Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 11:18:29 -0500 (EST)
From: Varju at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Paprika Dishes

<<  I don't know if they were the particular variety used for paprika,
 or how early we have recipes. I have been unable to find any period
 Hungarian cookbooks. >>

The few recipes I have seen do not contain paprika.  Unfotunately, I have
them third hand, (translations in _The Cuisine of Hungary_) and only seven
recipes from a book published in 1601.   It has been a consideration to do
some research on this subject once I'm done with my other research. . .

Noemi


Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 22:20:51 -0500 (EST)
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: SC - Paprika-History of

In a message dated 97-11-06 07:38:09 EST, Cariadoc writes:
<< The
 Whole Chile Pepper Book, Little, Brown Co., Boston 1990. ) that refers to
 Capsicums in Hungary in 1569 in a noblewoman's garden, called "turkish red
 pepper." I don't know if they were the particular variety used for paprika,
>>

The variety of pepper used to make paprika is a considered to be a sweet
pepper. 

According to  "Food in History", hot peppers became extremely populer  during
the 1500's. 

They were also used by the Germans and English in beer making to give it
body.

 However "sweet peppers" (of which paprika is one) were not introduced until
the 1700's and even then it was grown and used extensively by the peasants of
Provence as a "breakfast" food.

From there it spread to other parts of Europe, speciffically Poland from whom
the Hungarians adopted it as their national spice as well as and the Polish
name for paprika (pierprzyca) making it the definitive spice in Goulash. 

Based on this information, IMO, the hot peppers (capsicums) became widely
used (e.g. "extremely popular" throughout the countries who spoke Romance
languages shortly after Columbus introduced them to Spain. The introduction
of sweet peppers in the 1700's would preclude it's use during any of the time
period covered by the SCA and the use of paprika as a spice in Hungarian
dishes most probably began at the earliest circa 1725 C.E. but more likely
between 1740 C.E. and 1750 C.E.before  gaining widespread popularity and
national recognition in the last half of the century.

al-Sayyid Ras


Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 22:55:26 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Paprika-History of

To quote James Trager's Foodbook:

<quote>
Chili and cayenne come from the Capsicum frutescens and the Capsicum
annuum (Guinea pepper), paprika from the Capsicum tetragonum.  The mild
puffy green, or bell, pepper is the immature Capsicum grossum which when
it is ripe, is the hot red or yellow pepper.  Capsicums vary in taste
somewhat according to where the grow, hence the distinctive flavor of
Hungarian paprika, the dried powder derived from the sweet red
tetragonum pepper grown in Hungary.
<end quote>

According to a source I can not remember or locate at the moment,
Capsicum peppers were introduced into Italy by the Spanish.  The
Venetians used them as trade goods in the Near East and they were traded
north into Central Europe from Turkey, hence their presumed Turkish
origin.

Bear  


Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 23:04:43 EST
From: Varju <Varju at aol.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Paprika Dishes

<< Incidentally, it looks as though the seven recipes (which I seem to have
 somehow missed when I first looked through the book long ago) are not all
 from the 1601 source--some are from the earlier manuscript. But he doesn't
 say which. >>

Your Grace, I must thank you for pointing that fact out.  in the numerous
times I had read the book I had never noticed that.  I think I just kept
skipping to the recipes.

In that same section, Lang does state that paprika is not mentioned in either
manuscript "since the Turks brought it in just about that time and it had not
become a part of the nobility's cooking."  (Lang, pg. 25)  Now I really do
want to do more research on this subject. . .now if only my Hungarian were up
to par. . .

Noemi


Date: Fri, 7 Nov 1997 14:22:53 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Paprika-History of

><snip>The mildpuffy green, or bell, pepper is the immature Capsicum grossum
>which whenit is ripe, is the hot red or yellow pepper. <snip>
>
>um...while the bell peppers I have grown do change from green to red or
>yellow...they don't turn into hot peppers.  And the hot peppers I have grown
>are hot even when they are green.
>-brid
>(confused)

The "hot" in this case may not be referring to spicing, but color.  Red
bell peppers are definitely a hot red color, but they do not have a hot
taste. 

Capsicums are not uniformly "hot".  Different varieties have different
flavors and the "fire" (determined by the capsaicin in the pepper) is
also altered by the growing conditions.

To give a little idea of the range of flavors, here's a quote from the
MS Encyclopedia:

The red peppers, native to warm temperate and tropical regions of the
Americas, are various species of Capsicum (of the NIGHTSHADE family).
The hot varieties include cayenne pepper, whose dried, ground fruit is
sold as a spice, and chili pepper, sold similarly as a powder or in a
chili sauce. Paprika (the Hungarian word for red pepper) is a ground
spice from a less pungent variety. The pimiento, or Spanish pepper, is a
mild type; its small fruit is used as a condiment and for stuffing
olives. The common garden, or bell, pepper has larger, also mild fruits;
they are used as vegetables and in salads. Bell peppers are also known
as green peppers because they are most often marketed while still
unripe.

Bear


Date: Fri, 7 Nov 1997 22:13:54 -0500 (EST)
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Paprika-History of

<< Out of curiousity, what makes it a "sweet pepper"?  Is it due to the
 particular variety of plant it is or flavor?  >>

Actually both. Peppers in general are from the Nightshade family as are
potatos. tomatoes. eggplant, tobacco, Belladonna and Henbane . They are grown
for the thick-walled berries they produce. 

Simplified, The group as a whole is classied as Capsicum frutescens with the
following varieties> var. fasciculatum (red cluster peppers<hot>); var.
longum (long peppers <semi-sweet>); var. conoides (come peppers <mild to
hot>; grossum (sweet pepper< mild>); var. cerasiforme (cherry peppers <hot).

v. fasciculatum includes most of the peppers we are familiar with as "hot"
peppers with the noteble exception of Habeneros which some place in the
conoides group (which IMO is in error).

v. cerasiforme is , of course the round globe shaped peppers we call cherry
peppers.

v. grossum is the Bell pepper which we are all familiar with  and it is very
mild to sweet in flavor and pimiento..

v. longum is semi-sweet and includes Italian frying peppers and paprika.
longum was originally classified as a grossum from the information I have at
hand.

As a side the majority of the hot peppers dry easily and those of the grossum
and longum varieties are more thickly fleshed  tending to rot if not
carefully monitored during the drying process. Bells and pimients rot most
readily of all the peppers.

al-Sayyid Ras al Zib


Date: Sun, 9 Nov 1997 13:27:34 -0500 (EST)
From: Varju at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Redaction class on-line

Well. . .I'm not Adamantius or Cariadoc, but I have an answer.  Now that I
went back and actually read _The Cuisine of Hungary_ carefully, I have found
much to my sorrow that paprika is not period.  George Lang states, but
doesn't give a source for, the fact that the Turks had not introduced paprika
to Hungary by the early 1600's. 

So paprika is definitively NOT period.

Noemi
felling a bit crushed


Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 14:37:36 EST
From: "Chanda Shaffer" <leanche at hotmail.com>
Subject: SC - hot pepper oil-remady

>Anybody have any good ideas for getting hot pepper oil off my hands? I was
>crushing some Thai peppers for lunch, and although I've washed with
>detergent and hot water twice, I'm still burning myself every time I forget
>and touch myself in the face.
>
>Phlip,
>Who believes that when you're hot, you're hot,
>But at the moment would rather not.

Try milk.  soak your hands and any other utensils that may have absorbed
the oils ( cutting board, counter, knife handle) in milk.  make sure to
get the milk under your fingernails as well.  It is the same principle
as eating spicy foods with sour cream on it.   I believe it is the
lactose in the dairy products which dissipates the capsaicin in the
peppers but don't quote me on it.
    You can also try latex gloves to keep the oils away from your skin
in the first place, but I prefer the milk method because  I am allergic
to latex and think it leaves a taste on foods.
     Good Luck
            Ivy~


Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 02:49:32 EST
From: DianaFiona <DianaFiona at aol.com>
Subject: Re: SC - hot pepper oil-remady

<< >
 >Anybody have any good ideas for getting hot pepper oil off my hands? I was
 >crushing some Thai peppers for lunch, and although I've washed with
 >detergent and hot water twice, I'm still burning myself every time I forget
 >and touch myself in the face.
  >>

       Ouch! Been there, right enough...... At the moment I've got some
habaneros that I was gifted with that I'm trying to work up the courage to
deal with! In additon to the milk listed by someone else you might try
vinegar. It's supposed to disolve the essential oils, I believe. Pour a good
dollop in your hands and scrub them well. Rinse and repeat if needed. Seems to
work pretty well for me--but I'm not sure it's equal to habaneros! ;-)

                        Ldy Diana


Date: Monday, January 19, 1998 10:29:02
From: Christine a Seelye-king
To: Middlebridge
Subject: [Mid] Re: Your dinner is what?

>Ah, if only they'd had capsicums in the Middle Ages.
>Angelica Paganelli

       Rest assured my Lady, they did indeed!  My Lord is known to his
friends as 'Deadtongue' and has done quite a bit of research into the
firey fruit.  Columbus mentions them in the log from his first voyage.
He set out looking for spices from the Indies, and so when he landed, he
inquired as to any article that could be used as a spice or condiment.
From Haiti, he concluded he had found a new type of pepper, stating "From
this island alone, 50 caravels of this article could be loaded every
year."
("Columbus Menu -Italian Cuisine after the First Voyage of Christopher
Columbus" by Stafano Milioni)   His physician included the capsicum
pepper in his diary as a medicinal, and samples were brought back on the
first return trip.
      I suppose if you are sticking to the strict definition of the
Middle Ages your lament is well founded, but in our period,   tongues
were burnin'!

              Mistress Christianna MacGrain
              Lady to Lord Damon Fox, called Deadtongue


Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 01:27:36 EST
From: korrin.daardain at juno.com (Korrin S DaArdain)
Subject: Re: SC - Scoville Units (Home of Pace Picante-OT)

Seeing as we are talking Peppers.

THE CHILE HEAT SCALE - Scoville Units

The substance in chiles that makes them spicy is called capsaicin. It is
concentrated in the veins of the fruit (not the seeds) and stimulates
the nerve endings in your mouth, fooling your brain into thinking you're
in pain. The brain responds by releasing substances called endorphins,
which are similiar in structure to morphine. A mild euphoria results,
and chiles can be mildly addictive because of this hot pepper "high".

Chile hotness is rated in Scoville units. The hottest pepper on record
is the habanero/Scotch bonnet which some claim are the same pepper and
others claim are slightly different varieties. Habaneros are rated at
100,000 to 350,000 Scoville units. By contrast, the lowly serrano comes
in at about 5,000 to 15,000 Scoville units.

Scoville Units are the measurement of capsaicin level (the oil that
makes chiles hot). Although chiles can vary from pod to pod and plant to
plant, listed below is an approximate scale for several varieties of
chiles:

            16,000,000   PURE CAPSAICIN

10   100,000 - 350,000   HABANERO; SCOTCH BONNET
 9    50,000 - 100,000   SANTAKA; CHILTEPIN; THAI
 8    30,000 - 50,000    AJI; CAYENNE; TABASCO; PIQUIN
 7    15,000 - 30,000    CHILE DE ARBOL
 6     5,000 - 15,000    YELLOW WAX; SERRANO
 5     2,500 - 5,000     JALAPENO; MIRASOL
 4     1,500 - 2,500     SANDIA; CASCABEL
 3     1,000 - 1,500     ANCHO; PASILLA; ESPANOLA
 2       500 - 1,000     NEW MEXICO; ANAHEIM; BIG JIM
 1       100 - 500       MEXI-BELLS; CHERRY
 0                       MILD BELLS; SWEET BANANA; PIMENTO

Korrin S. DaArdain
Kitchen Steward of Household Port Karr
Kingdom of An Tir in the Society for Creative Anachronism.


Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 00:06:24 -0500
From: mermayde at juno.com (Christine A Seelye-King)
Subject: Re: SC - Period Chili

"maddie teller-kook" <meadhbh at io.com> writes:
>I'd love to see the documentation on this.  Sad that there aren't any
>documentable recipes... could it be the plants were grown for ornament
>instead of food?  curious.
>
>meadhbh

They were actually brought back first by Columbus' ship's doctor, and
were noted for medicinal qualities (increased blood circulation, raised
blood pressure, salivation, anti-parasitical, etc.).  There are entries
from Columbus' ships' logs regarding the amounts that could be shipped
back ("On this island alone [Haiti], 50 caravels of this article could be
loaded every year.")  After that, there are no entries regarding the
pepper in Italian manuscripts until 1781.  More about this comes from a
little volume called "Columbus Menu - Italian Cuisine after the Voyage of
Christopher Columbus" by Stefano Milioni,  put out by the Italian Trade
Commission in 1992, the 500th anniversary of the original voyage.

Mistress Christianna MacGrain


Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:43:56 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Period Chili

> From:         LrdRas at aol.com[SMTP:LrdRas at aol.com]
> lainie at gladstone.uoregon.edu writes:
> <<  where does paprika come from? >>
>
> Paprika is a variety of sweet pepper (actually a mid-range variety between
> sweet and spicy).. Sweet peppers were introduced to the Old World in the
> 1700's by the route of Africa, Arabia and Naples for the most part.

Trager places the introduction of paprika into Hungary as 1529 when the
Turks first took Buda.  The date is open to question, but the Turks were
engaged in military activities there through the 16th Century and
intermittently during the 17th Century, so its introduction via the Turks is
very likely.

Bear


Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:05:10 EST
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Period Chili

TerryD at Health.State.OK.US writes:
<< Trager places the introduction of paprika into Hungary as 1529 when the
 Turks first took Buda.  The date is open to question, but the Turks were
 engaged in military activities there through the 16th Century and
 intermittently during the 17th Century, so its introduction via the Turks
 is very likely.

 Bear >>

Thanks for the update. After checking several other sources, it appears that
your date is most probably more accurate. I had assumed that because sweet
bell peppers were introduced so late that paprika pappers were included in the
term 'sweet peppers'. This is not the case. Paprika peppers are in reality a
third type of pepper intermediate in spiciness. Forgive me for not taking
more time with the question.

Ras


Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:41:32 EST
From: Varju at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Period Chili

TerryD at Health.State.OK.US writes:
<< Trager places the introduction of paprika into Hungary as 1529 when the
 Turks first took Buda.  The date is open to question, but the Turks were
 engaged in military activities there through the 16th Century and
 intermittently during the 17th Century, so its introduction via the Turks
 is very likely. >>

Sorry about my earlier tuncated reply to this. . .I was getting a little too
much feline help while typing :->

The Hungarians are pretty definite about the Turks introducing paprika, in
fact the joke is that it is the only good thing the Turks did.  The main
problem with knowing when paprika was introduced is that the Turks ruled most
of Hungary from the Battle of Mohacs in 1527 to 1711.  There are any number of
romantic stories about how it was introduced but no hard facts.  At some point
in the late 1600's paprika began to appear in the cookbooks of noble families.
There is some speculation that the peasants began using paprika as a seasoning
first, because it was easy to grow and readily availible, but again to hard
proof.

Everything else I know about paprika is less historical. . .there are seven
modern types of paprika from sweet to hot, the most prized being sweet rose
which is a notch hotter than the mid-range paprika.

Noemi
Windkeep, Outlands
Cheyenne, Wyoming


Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 17:10:15 -0500
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Period Chili

Shari Burnham wrote:
> does anyone have a list of the other capsicum peppers?  or if it is in
> Stefan's files?  and which are period?

As far as I know, differences are varietal between relatively few
species. Basically there are sweet (i.e. Bell, and perhaps those long
Italian frying peppers) and hot peppers, and a few, like paprikas, that
could be classed somewhere in between. I recall reading somewhere that
while there are dozens of different chili pepper varieties, they're all
basically varieties of the same species. All are New World, and while
they may have taken hold in different places at different times, there
doesn't appear to have been any significant production or usage anywhere
on the Eurasian landmass prior to the late 16th century.

I don't think you'll find them in any French or English recipes until
the 18th century or so.

Adamantius


Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 00:21:28 -0000
From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Nanna_R=F6gnvaldard=F3ttir?=" <nannar at isholf.is>
Subject: Re: SC - Period Chili

"The Spanish and Portuguese soon introduced the chilli to the Old World, but
while the sensitive palates of Europeans remained wary of so hot a flavour,
it was a revalation to the peoples of Africa, Arabia and Asia. They took to
using it lavishly, and were imitated by the island-dwellers of the Indian
and Pacific Oceans, to such an extent that in the sixteenth century, when
the spice had spread like wildfire its fierce flavour suggests, no one was
quite sure if "Calcutta pepper", a chili which quickly became naturalized in
India and was immediately added to the catalogues of traders in Oriental
spices, actually came from the East or the West Indies. The Bavarian
naturalist Leonhard Fuchs (1501-1566) descripes this siliquastrum in his
Historia Stirpium as originating in Calcutta in all its four forms: small,
large, pointed and broad. The Germans and northern French used it in small
quantities to give body to their beer and help it keep. The English put it
into pickles."

- - from History of Food by Maguelonne Toussaint-Samat.

Nanna


Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:22:15 -0400
From: Christine A Seelye-King <mermayde at juno.com>
Subject: SC - Feast Enhancement Kit

A response from my lord, about his penchant for hot pepper sauces.  After
he sent this to me, he said last night that he would be interested in
trying to find period recipies for hot sauces, my first thought was the
powdre forte.  Any other thoughts?
Christianna

- --------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "dallas fox" <deadtongue at hotmail.com>
To: mermayde at juno.com
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 07:19:35 PDT
Subject: Re: Fw: Re: SC - Feast Enhancement Kit

<snip of modern pepper sauce descriptions?

You will note that all of these are based around capsicum 'peppers',
and while they are very late, they are in period.  Columbus went
looking for a shortcut to the spice trade, and when he got to the
West Indies, he found... chilies.  He said of one island that 3
caravels could be loaded each year.  The first crop of chilies grown
in Europe was in 1493.  In less than 100 years, they had become so
widespread that many people thought they were native to India.  Which
amuses me greatly, seeing as how that is where Columbus thought he
was.

Damon.


Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 18:30:19 EDT
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - pepper history

stefan at texas.net writes:
<< I would be interested in seeing more about this growing of chilies in
 Europe in 1493.  >>

This info would interest me also since  the Dept. of Agriculture Yearbook
where I originally started reading about capsicums states that they were a
'major' agricultural crop in the Meditteranean BASIN by 1523 from which i
assumed they meant the sea side areas of the Ottoman Empire and possibly
southern Italy and southern Spain, Egypt, Libya, etc. The use of hot peppers
in those cuisines in modern times lends some creedence to the theory. I had
also read that through Spanish/Islamic trade, it was introduced not only into
the parts of Europe settled by Islamic people (Hungary, Yugoslvia, etc) but
also on into India and farther East. From there it was reintroduced  back
into Europe into France , Germany and England. I may be wrong but this is the
basic timeline I see regarding the movement of capsicums from the New World
to Northern European countries.

Ras


Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 15:54:02 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: SC - Columbus' chilies

A translation of the Diario of Christopher Columbus came into my hands last
night at my favorite used book store.  The Diario is a manuscript copy by a
Spanish priest of the diary Columbus kept during his first voyage
(1492-1493).  This particular translation is a scholarly work with the
complete text of the diary and the translation on opposing pages.  Footnotes
are copious and previous translations are referenced for additional clarity.

One of the comments which caught my eye was to the effect, the chili is the
pepper of these islands and Columbus believed he could ship 50 caravels of
chilies from Hispanola to Spain every year.

Did he carry out his plan?  Possibly.  He was govenor of Hispanola until
1500.  Given the fantastic profits on the 200 to 300 tons of black pepper
imported into Europe each year, being able to deliver 10 times that amount
of the new chili pepper would be a serious temptation for a man of Columbus'
ambition.

There is pictorial evidence that peppers could be found in Spanish kitchens
during the 16th Century, but beyond that, evidence for the use of chilies in
Europe seems to be non-existent.  The Portuguese had introduced grains of
paradise no more than 70 years prior to Columbus' voyage and they were
accepted and widely used.  Why not chilies?

It is possible the Portuguese spice trade with the East Indies overwhelmed
the fledging spice trade with the West Indies, but the first Portuguese
spices didn't reach the market until 1500 and it was 1503 before they broke
the pepper monopoly by returning with 1300 tons of black pepper.  

Given the European taste for spices and Columbus' intent to export them to
Spain in quantity, chilies should have been a winner.  That there is limited
evidence for their use makes me curious as to why they apparently did not
come into common use.

Bear


Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 23:40:50 -0500
From: harper at idt.net
Subject: Salsa (was Re: SC - Lemonade in Sent Sovi??)

Okay, maybe a recipe for tomato-based salsa isn't too outrageously OOP 
after all....
I was looking at a text in the Virtual Cervantes library, a history of the 
exploration of New Spain by Francisco Cervantes de Salazar.  I don't 
know when it was written, but Salazar died in 1575.
http://www.cervantesvirtual.com/servlet/SirveObras/45201728150540421263
8516/index.htm

  He says, in the chapter on plants of the New World:

"El agÌ sirve de especia en estas partes; es caliente, ayuda a la digestiÛn 
y a la c·mara; es apetitoso, y de manera que los m·s guisados y salsas 
se hacen con Èl; usan dÈl no menos los espaÒoles que los indios. Hay 
unos agÌes colorados y otros amarillos; Èstos son los maduros, porque 
los que no lo son, est·n verdes, hay unos que queman m·s que otros. 
Los tomates son mayores que agraces; tienen su sabor, aunque no tan 
agrio; hay unos del tamaÒo que dixe, y otros grandes, mayores que 
limas, amarillos y colorados; Èchanse en las salsas y potajes para 
templar el calor del agÌ."

"The chile serves as spice in these regions; it is hot, aids the digestion, 
and the evacuation of stool; it is appetizing, and in such a manner that 
most of the stews and sauces are made with it; the Spaniards use it no 
less than the Indians.  There are some red chiles, and others which are 
yellow; these are the mature ones, for those which are not [mature] are 
green, there are some which burn more than the others.  The tomatoes 
are bigger than unripe grapes, they have their [same] flavor, although not 
as sour; there are some which are the size I said, and others that are big, 
larger than limes, yellow ones and red ones; they cast them in the sauces 
and pottages to temper the heat of the chile."

He also talks about how they make tortillas out of corn, so maybe chips 
are too farfetched, either.

But it's still not from Sent Sovi, nor is this evidence that they were eating 
such things on the other side of the Atlantic.

Lady Brighid ni Chiarain
Settmour Swamp, East (NJ)


Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 23:43:19 -0000
From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Nanna_R=F6gnvaldard=F3ttir?=" <nannar at isholf.is>
Subject: Re: SC - Steamed Pudding Recipes - 2nd installment

Kiri wrote.
>OK....so then where did the kind I mix in with cheddar and mayo to make my
>sandwich spread get their name...another kind of pepper?  Yes, I know it is of
>the capiscum family, most of which are referred to as peppers, but why, if the
>one I know as pimento is sweet, would they have called it by the male, or
>stronger name?

I'm not sure if this explains anything - I think the Spaniards originally
applied the term to all peppers but later, pimiento came to mean (in
Spanish) just the red, sweet peppers. This usage entered English in the
mid-19th century; at that time pimento was being used as an alternative name
for allspice, but it has gradually become a synonym for pimiento (note that
these are two different words who used to have different meanings, even
though both are derived from Spanish pimienta).

Nanna


Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 13:19:53 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Peppers?

> Did anyone ever come to a conclusions as to the possible periodness of
> peppers in Eastern Europe (between 1500 and 1600).
> -- 
> Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise	      

There is not a lot readily available on the subject.  Most food histories
tend to date the arrival of capsicums in Eastern Europe to 1526, coinciding
with the Ottoman conquest of most of Hungary, however the actually date of
introduction could be anytime up to around 1621, when the Turks were pushed
out.

The earliest published reference from the area can be found in Leonhard
Fuchs' Primi de Stirpirum published in Basil in 1545.  Fuchs was a physician
and naturalist who was living in T¸bingen (south of Stuttgart on the Neckar
River).  There are three plates on pages 425-427, 1) Capsicon rubeum &
nigrum - Roter und brauner Calcutischer Pfeffer, 2) Capsicum oblongius -
Langer Indianische Pfeffer, and 3) Capsicon latum - Breyter Indianische
Pfeffer.  Fuchs appears to have been familiar with the plants, but confused
about their origins.

The fact that Fuchs very carefully and correctly pictures the capsicum
plants suggests that they were available to him and that the 1526 date for
the introduction of the plant into Eastern Europe may be correct.  

If you are interested, Fuchs' work has been webbed at:
http://www.med.yale.edu/library/historical/fuchs/

Capsicums were also reported as being grown in a monastary garden in Brno,
Moravia in 1566, but I haven't found the source of the report.

Bear


Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 13:27:32 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Peppers?

> > Capsicums were also reported as being grown in a
> > monastary garden in Brno,
> > Moravia in 1566, but I haven't found the source of
> > the report.
> > 
> > Bear
> 
> Ah, but were they grown as an ornamental, as a
> curiosity or as a food?  That I think it the prime
> question.
> 
> Huette

If you start with the diary of Christopher Columbus and the comments of his
physician, peppers were initially viewed as a spice and a medicinal.
Columbus' intent was to introduce the spice to Europe.  Turkish red peppers
were almost certainly being eaten when the Ottomans introduced them into
Central Europe.

The 1633 edition of Gerard's Herball contains the following entry:

"Capsicum. Ginnie or Indian Pepper. 
...Ginnie pepper hath the taste of pepper, but not the power or vertue,
notwithstanding in Spaine and sundrie parts of the Indies they do vse to
dresse their meate therewith, as we doe with Calecute pepper: but (saith my
Authour) it hath in it a malicious qualitie, whereby it is an enemy to the
liuer and other of the entrails... It is said to die or colour like Saffron;
and being receiued in such sort as Saffron is vsually taken, it warmeth the
stomacke, and helpeth greatly the digestion of meates." 
(thanks to Cindy Renfrow for the quote)

So peppers were definitely being used as a condiment by 1633 and probably
had been used in that manner since their original importation.  I don't know
if this appeared in the 1597 edition of the Herball, but it is worth
checking, if a copy can be located.  I think the question of how they spread
from their initial arrival in Spain is more important than how they were
used.  

It is interesting that Gerard differentiates Calcutta pepper from the
Capsicums while Fuchs identifies Calcutta pepper as a Capsicum.  Gerard
obviously knew the true origin of the Capsicums.  Fuchs identifies some of
them as Indianische peppers, which might denote a West Indian origin, but
could, in view of the Calcutta pepper identification, may mean Fuchs tied
their origin to India.  This raises some questions about the origin of Fuchs
plants.  If they did originate on the Indian sub-continent, then they would
be descended from plants brought there by the Portuguese, and would document
a very fast spread of the plants in the Old World.

The Hungarians identify the source of their peppers ("the only good thing
the Turks brought") as the Ottomans.  Those areas of Eastern Europe under
Ottoman control probably received Capsicums from the Turks.  The Turkish
Capsicums very likely entered the Ottoman Empire in the trade between Italy
and Spain and between Venice and the Ottomans.

The German Capsicums may have come from the Ottomans in Eastern Europe, but
the German states also had trade relations with the Portuguese and the
Italians, providing other possible sources.  A dearth of documentation
leaves us to speculate on just how the peppers spread across Europe.  

BTW, I suspect the peppers at the monastery in Brno were used as medicinals.

Bear


From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
To: "'sca-cooks at ansteorra.org'" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] red tower feast?
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 10:56:58 -0500

> When I asked about the bell peppers, he said, "they are
> period... Columbus
> found and named them in 1492 on his trip to the West Indies."
>
> Olwen

Columbus found peppers in the New World and waxed poetical (greedily?) about
the number of caravel loads he could supply to Spain each year.  However, to
my knowledge, there is no real evidence supporting such a trade.

Also, as I remember it, Columbus uses the generic "pimiento," which covers
all red, yellow or green peppers and all spice, not just Capsicum annum.
Could be Columbus found Scotch bonnets.

There are a couple of 16th Century paintings, which may show New World
peppers in the kitchen.  One, which I have not seen, is supposed to show a
ristra (not bell peppers) hanging in the background.  The other has a couple
of fruit in a basket which look like bell peppers, but are too obscured to
accurately identify.

Bear


From: jenne at fiedlerfamily.net
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 12:05:36 -0400 (EDT)
To: "'sca-cooks at ansteorra.org'" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] red tower feast?

> Also, as I remember it, Columbus uses the generic "pimiento," which covers
> all red, yellow or green peppers and all spice, not just Capsicum annum.
> Could be Columbus found Scotch bonnets.

I've seen some references to the idea that the 'pepper' that Columbus
found and imported a sample of was allspice.

-- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa


Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 13:12:32 -0400
From: johnna holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] red tower feast?

Robert Fuson's translation entitled The Log of
Christopher Columbus in the entry for 15 January
1493 concludes with:
There is a great deal of cotton here, very fine and long,
as well as a lot of mastic,and gold and copper. There is
also much aji, which is their pepper and is worth more
than our pepper; no one eats without it because it is very healthy.
Fifty caravels can be loaded each year with it on this Isla
Espanola. (p.175)

Fuson gives Aji as meaning chili pepper, not be confused
with aje (yuca or sweet potatoes) and ajo (garlic).

Andrew Dalby in Dangerous Tastes. The Story of Spices
(Unoversity of California Press, 2000)
suggests that Columbus may never have seen actual
allspice although he was assured that it was there...
a bush bearing small round fruits that lent a spicy taste
to food. Dalby also suggests that the aji found by
Columbus is that perhaps of C.chinese, the best known
cultivated versions today are those of the Jamaican
Scotch Bonnet.

So Bear when he suggested "Could be Columbus found Scotch bonnets."
may be right on the mark.

Johnnae llyn Lewis
Johnna Holloway


Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:36:02 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] FW: paprika and spikenard
To: "'sca-cooks at ansteorra.org'" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Cc: "'Charles.Perry at latimes.com'" <Charles.Perry at latimes.com>

While most secondary sources credit the Turks with bringing paprika peppers
to Hungary, the possibility that they came through the Croatian spice
traders can't be ruled out.  The Turkish claim is based mostly on the timing
of the incursions of the 1520's and the presumption that peppers came to the
Ottomans from Spain via the Venetians then were brought into Central Europe
by Ottoman troops.  

The Ragusans were active competitors with the Venetians during the 15th and
16th Centuries.  Historically, the area was ruled by Hungary from the 12th
to the 16th Century when it came under Ottoman control.  Dubrovnik proper
was controlled by the Venetians from 1205 to 1358, when it was ceded to
Hungary.  There is a connection to Spain in that some of the spice merchants
were Jewish and took in refugees from the Marrano persecutions in Spain.  

There is a new book, that I am looking forward to reading, from the Central
European University Press, The Long Journey of Gracia Mendes, which ties to
all of these subjects during 1510 to 1569.  The author is Marianna D.
Birnbaum, Professor Emeritus from, wonder of wonders, UCLA. 

I am interested in reading the thesis and I hope Mr. Perry would be so kind
as to provide a bibliographic citation that can be used to find copies.

As a small point for anyone chasing references to Ragusa, there are two
Ragusas.  One is Dubrovnik, the other is a town in Sicily.

Bear


>>>>>>
I just received this by email and thought some of you might 
be interested as we have discussed both of these items here before.

I am in fact honored to have gotten this email, for if my 
guess is correct, this is the same Charles Perry and his book 
which have been previously mentioned on this list.

Perhaps some of you studying eastern Europe or the Balkans 
might want to check out this thesis. Bear?

Stefan

-----Original Message-----
From: Perry, Charles [mailto:Charles.Perry at latimes.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 5:54 PM
To: Mark.S Harris
Subject: paprika and spikenard

	I just came across a collection of historical spice 
threads collected by you. I had two observations to 
contribute, didn't know where else to send them.
	Paprika: -ika is a Slavic suffix used on plant names; 
paprika means "pepper plant." It was not introduced to 
Hungary by the Turks but by Croatian merchants from Ragusa 
(now Dubrovnik). There is a thesis on file at UCLA on this 
subject, complete with maps of the spice routes through the Balkans. 
	Spikenard: It has a musky, resinous scent, and its 
commonest use throughout history has been as a hair tonic or 
perfume (it is still probably used for that purpose -- I 
suspect its presence in Vitalis), but occasionally it has 
flavored foods and beverages. My translation of the 
14th-century Arabic cookbook "Kitab Wasf al-At'ima 
al-Mu'tada" (in "Medieval Arab Cookery," Prospect Books, 
2001) gives some recipes that call for it. At present, 
spikenard is available at markets that sell Iranian food 
products. It comes in little cellophane packages -- looking 
like a tangle of brown wires -- under the name "valerian." In 
Perso-Arab script, however, the packages call it by its 
Arabic name, "sunbul al-tib," "fragrant spikenard."
<<<<<<<<


Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 17:56:30 -0700
From: Edouard de Bruyerecourt <bruyere at jeffnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] paprika
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

I just watched an episode of "American's Test Kitchen" on PBS that 
addressed paprika. The salient points:

All paprika is made of some variety of capsicum pepper, and almost 
always a blend of varieties.

The paprika made from just the flesh ('mesocarp') of the pepper will 
tend to be milder, while that made from the veins ('placenta') and seeds 
will be hotter.

California and US peppers for paprika are usually oven dried in a one 
day process. Hungarian/Spanish/European peppers for paprika are 
traditionally sun-dried up to three weeks. There is a trend in Europe 
towards oven-drying for less space and and less time, which is 
significant since paprikophiles tend to favour the sun-dried paprika, 
holding Hungarian paprika as superior for this reason.

Their favourite was Penzey's Hungarian Sweet (by mail order only), 
followed by Pendery's Spanish Sweet. Even the US brands could deliver 
good results (the editor chose McCormick's/Schilling blind, as hotter 
one of his two favourites). The test kitchen guy said the price per 
ounce of McCormick's was comparible to Penzey's _before_ you added for 
shipping.
-- 
Edouard, Sire de Bruyerecourt
bruyere at mind.net


Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 14:59:59 -0400
From: Daniel Myers <doc at medievalcookery.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] pink peppercorn
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

<jenne at fiedlerfamily.net> wrote:
> In _Dangerous Tastes: The story of spices_, Andrew Dalby says that a South
> American native plant related to capsicums is the source of the pink
> peppercorn/baies roses: "It has a cloase relative, Schinus
> terebinthifolius, native to Brazil, whose berries are currently enjoying a
> vogue as a culinary spice under such names as pink peppercorns, baies
> roses or Brazilian pepper. They have been much used by chefs who aim at
> nouvelle cuisine, though some diners suffer adverse reactions to them."
>
> I know that some peppercorn blends come with pink peppercorns in them.
> This Dalby's statement suggests to me that avoiding such blends isn't just
> a good way of keeping our cooking period, but of avoiding introducing a
> specific kind of allergy issue-- since there are people who are allergic
> to capsicums but not to Piper species, and so might be fooled by hearing
> that spice pepper was used into tasting something that would provoke
> their allergies.

Capsicum peppers are from the family Solanaceae (nightshade family),
whereas "pink peppercorns" (Schinus terebinthifolius Raddi) are from
Anacardiaceae (cashew family).  While it's possible that there might be
some allergens in common, I don't think it likely.

On the other hand (and the concept of cooking within period aside), I
think it would be a bad idea to use pink pepper in any dish unless you
tell those being served.  It is a completely different plant than
regular pepper (Piper nigrum) and is a potential source of allergy
trouble.

There's some good information on pink peppercorns at the site below,
including a little bit on some of the reported health problems.

	http://www-ang.kfunigraz.ac.at/~katzer/engl/
generic_frame.html?Schi_ter.html

- Doc
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
   Edouard Halidai  (Daniel Myers)
   http://www.medievalcookery.com/


Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 00:09:17 -0400
From: Daniel Myers <edouard at medievalcookery.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] chili pepper in 1620 spanish painting?
To: SCA Cooks <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Came across this while looking for something else.
	http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/v/velazque/1620/05christ.jpg

Does the thing in front of the bowl of fish look like a dried chili
pepper to anyone else?

Of course capsicums had a full 100 years to make their way to Spain by
then ...

- Doc
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
   Edouard Halidai  (Daniel Myers)


Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 10:44:46 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] chili pepper in 1620 spanish painting?
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

The painting is owned by the National Gallery  in London.
If you go to their website you can download the picture for viewing from
them. In theory this  has a zoom function which makes it easier to look
at the details.
It takes forever to download, so be patient.
http://www.nationalgallery.org.uk
http://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/cgi-bin/WebObjects.dll/ 
CollectionPublisher.woa/wa/work?workNumber=NG1375

Using the zoom function----

Yes, it's a pepper and yes it's garlic.....

Johnnae llyn Lewis

Terry Decker wrote:
> Right shape, right color, but not a good reproduction.  It would be  
> nice if we could see the original or a Tauschen reproduction.
>
> Chili peppers appear in Leonard Fuchs herbal of 1543, so it is very  
> likely they were being used in cooking before 1600.
>
> Bear


Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 21:08:53 -0600
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Peppers
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

The Cambridge World History of Food has a rather interesting article on
capsicums, suggesting that they were spread by the Portuguese to West Africa
along with maize as part of the slave trade, then around to East Africa and
on to India.  "Thus 50 years after 1492, three varieties of capsicums were
being grown and exported along the Malabar Coast of India." (Purseglove,
J.W. 1968.  Some problems of the origin and distribution of tropical plants.
Genetics Agraria 17:105-122.  Watt, G. (1889) 1972.  A dicionary of the
economic products of India.  Dehli.)

"From India, chilli peppers travelled (along with the other spices that were
disseminated) not only along the Portuguese route back around Africa to
Europe but also over ancient trade routes that led either to Europe via the
Midle East or to monsoon Asia."  (L'obel, M. 1576.  Plantarum sev  stirpium
historia.  Antwerp.)

"In the Szechuan and Hunan provinces in  China, where many New world foods
were established within the lifetime of the Spanish conquistadors, there
were no roads leading from the coast.  Nonetheless, American foods were
known there by the middle of the Sixteenth Century, having reached these
regions via caravan routes from the Ganges River through Burma and across
Western China."  (Ho, P.T. 1955.  The introduction of American food plants
into China.  American Anthropologist 55:191-201.)

Capsicums were known in Italy by 1535, Germany by 1542, England before 1538,
the Balkans before 1569 and Moravia by 1585.

"...except in the Balkans and Turkey, Europeans did not make much use of
chilli peppers until the Napoleonic blockade cut off their supply of spices
and they turned to Balkan paprika as a substitute."

Quotes are from the article in The Cambridge World History of Food.
Citations are sources referenced in the article.  If you are interested in
the subject, the full article is definitely worth reading.

Bear


Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 15:35:07 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] new world foods; old world names
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

In period pepper is used as a general word for hot spices and as a specific
word for members of genus Piper.  Black pepper or white pepper (Piper
nigrum), long pepper (Piper longnum),  cubebs (Piper cubeba), betel pepper
(Piper betle, whose leaves are used to wrap betel nuts, Areca catechu) and
kava (Piper methysticum) are all things that might be referred to as pepper,
although the first three would have been more likely to reach the spicer.

IIRC, the transference of the name pepper to the New World Capsicums occurs
in Columbus's journal of his first voyage to the New World where he relates
an undetermined capsicum pepper (possibly a Scotch bonnet) to genus Piper
and notes that he can ship something like 89 caravelles of the peppers to
Spain each year.  He also relates maize to millet and sweet potatoes to
yams.

Remember that most of the discoverers were not trained botanists and most
had no scientists on their expeditions.  They either used variants of the
native names or used the name of something the new foodstuff closely
resembled.

Bear


Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 09:12:10 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Earth Apples?
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> Actually, according to Lang, peppers were introduced into Hungary by
> Bulgarians who got them from the Turks.
>
> Huette

Yep.  I've seen several variants on how peppers got from here to there. The
point is all of the evidence shows them moving into Europe after 1529 when
the Turks rolled into Hungary (IIRC).  Nobody has a definite handle on how
they got there, but the general consensus is the Turks are guilty of
spreading the fire.

Bear


Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 17:00:17 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] chile, chili, chilli
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> Does anyone know of references to Europeans eating capsicums in food in
> Europe and what they thought of them?
> -- 
> Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)

In contemporary sources, Columbus comments on the number of caravelles full
he can send to Spain.  Oviedo places them in Italy around 1535.  They appear
in Fuchs Herbal of 1545.  Turner places them in England by 1538.  I don't
know if these authors merely referenced the plant or mentioned their
culinary properties.

Bernardino de Sahagun describes how chilies were used in cooking in Mexico
in the late 1570s.  But the earliest European reference I've encountered to
eating peppers is a recipe for tomato sauce from the late 17th Century.

Bear


Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 21:50:43 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] chile, chili, chilli
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

>> From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
>>> In contemporary sources, Columbus comments on the number of caravelles full
>>> he can send to Spain.  Oviedo places them in Italy around 1535.  They appear
>>> in Fuchs Herbal of 1545.  Turner places them in England by 1538.  I don't
>>> know if these authors merely referenced the plant or mentioned their
>>> culinary properties.
>
> If I read Bears message correctly, Columbus' comments are about how much
> he _can_ send, not
> how much he _did_ send.  Every account that I have read always talks about
> how Columbus
> brought back peppers from the New World.  What they don't write about is
> how he actually
> accomplished this feat, since it must have taken months to return to
> Spain.  Today I could
> pick a peck of peppers and hop onto a plane and be in Spain in six or
> seven hours and the
> peppers would still be edible when I arrived.  How did Columbus manage to
> arrive in Spain
> with a cargo of edible peppers?  Or tomatoes for that fact?  If he brought
> seeds, which
> would survive such a voyage, it would take some time for the seeds to be
> planted, hopefully
> grow and thrive and hopefully bear fruit.  But I cannot buy that he sent
> caravelles full of
> picked fruit that arrived in perfect condition months later.
>
> Huette

You are correct, Columbus was reporting that he could ship 50 caravelles a
year (IIRC).  Nowhere is it said that he actually did so.  The Diario does
not report what he brought back, but that information may be in Peter
Martyr's works.

The return trip to Spain took about 2 months.  Fresh peppers might not
survive, but dried peppers could.

Bear


Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 01:52:32 -0500
From: "otsisto" <otsisto at socket.net>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Basque Food/piment d'espelette
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

I have "The Basque Kitchen" by Gerald Hirigoyen. It mentions a spice called
piment d'espelette. He says that you can substitute sweet paprika or mild
chili powder but it won't be quite the same. Piment D'Espelette is a  French
Basque spice common, of coarse, in Espelette.

http://www.fiery-foods.com/dave/espelette1.html

Excerpt:
Early History

When Columbus brought chile peppers to Europe from the Caribbean after his
second voyage in 1493, they were first grown in monastery gardens in Spain
and Portugal as curiosities. But soon the word got out that the pungent pods
were a reasonable and cheap substitute for black pepper, which was so
expensive that it had been used as currency in some countries. So the best
thing about chilies–in addition to their heat and flavor–was that they did
not have to be imported from India; anyone could grow them as annuals in
temperate climates.

Carried by Spanish and Portuguese explorers, numerous varieties of chilies
quickly spread throughout the Mediterranean region and Africa, and the rest
of the Eastern Hemisphere, where they permanently spiced up world cuisines
such as those of India, Southeast Asia, and China. However, there were some
famous national cuisines that were not conquered by chilies; Italians, for
example, utilized chilies only sparingly. The peperoncinis, for example, are
used in antipasto, crushed red chilies are a topping for Neapolitan pizzas,
and hot red chili powder as an ingredient in some pasta sauces. But no one
region in Italy celebrates chilies. In France, however, chilies were
established as a tradition in just one region the Nive Valley in the
southwest, and especially in the village of Espelette to the south.  It is
believed that chilies were introduced into the Nive Valley by Gonzalo
Percaztegi in 1523, the same year that corn first made its appearance there.
At first it was thought to be related to black pepper and was even called
"long black American pepper," and it wasn’t until the 17th century that it
was placed in its own genus.

Lyse


Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 09:08:02 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Basque Food/piment d'espelette
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

I would take this article with a grain of salt.

Chili peppers were found on Columbus's first voyage and are first described
in the journal entry for Tuesday 15 January.  The author may be confusing
this with the tale that Queen Isabella was treated with medicine made from
peppers brought back on the second voyage or is referencing inaccurate
secondary sources.

IIRC, Grewe speculates on the spread of peppers in Spain, but I have
encountered no primary evidence of where and why they were grown.
Personally, I speculate peppers were grown for the kitchen and the pharmacy
rather than as curiosities, for Columbus states, "There is also much chili,
which is their pepper, of a kind more valuable than [black] pepper, and none
of the people eat without it, for they find it very healthful."

Leonard Fuchs, in his 1545 Herbal, identifies these peppers as "Capiscon
rubeum & nigrum: Roter and brauner Calecutischer Pfeffer, Capsicum oblongis:
Langer Indianischer Pfeffer, and Capsicon latum: Breyter Indianishcer
Pfeffer."  Setting aside Fuchs's error of identifying the peppers with the
Indian subcontinent, it is fairly obvious that capsicum peppers were placed
in their own genus during their first (known) scientific description rather
than in the 17th Century as the author describes.

In my opinion, the most accurate statements in the article are probably
those about Gonzalo Percaztegi, but I would like to know the author's
sources so that I could verify the information.

Bear


Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2007 22:39:28 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Gastronomica on Spice Trade, Apicius and
	Martino
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

The actual article is not really going to expand our knowledge much.
He does state that Chiles were being grown in Italy by 1526
(Historia general y natural de de las Indias by Gonzalo Fernadez de Oviedo
y Valdes) and in Spain by 1564 when L'Ecluse comments on them.
L'Ecluse mentions that Moravia was also growing them.
He mentions a 17th century account that mentions the Spanish 'delight in pimento
and guinea pepper and include them in all their sauces.'
That is footnoted as Flandrin. Dietary choices and culinary Technique"
page 410.

He finds that with the exception of paprika being used in the Balkans
and the initial introduction of the Chile into Spain, Portugal, and to a
lesser degree
in Southern Italy, the Chile didn't really impact the established spice
trade because
the Europeans didn't adopt it wholeheartedly. The Indians and Chinese on
the other hand...

Johnna

Johnna  wrote:
> I don't know that I can summarize it tonight. Been a long day here.
> The primary focus seems to be the question of did the Chile kill
> off the longstanding spice trade and very early on he's refuting
> the 1980 Hyman article from PPC on long pepper.
> He mentions that Columbus discovered it in 1493 and Fuchs
> described and drew it in 1542--
> "But how, where, or when it traveled , or who carried it, remains  
> unknown."
>
> I'll go into more this weekend. Have to be in at the University on  
> Friday.
>
> Johnna
>
> Sue Clemenger wrote:
>
>> What do they say about the chili? I recently had someone tell me, in all
>> earnestnesss, that Columbus had brought back tomatoes and chili peppers,
>> which apparently means that a creamy tomato soup (with chilis among the
>> seasonings) is thusly period.  Mind you, it was a *very* tasty  
>> soup....;o)
>> --Maire
>>
>>> The latest issue of Gastronomica 7:2 Spring 2007
>>> features these articles that may be of interest to the list:
>>> The Medieval Spice Trade and the Diffusion of the Chile by Clifford
>>> Wright pp. 35-43 Johnna


Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 15:35:07 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] new world foods; old world names
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

In period pepper is used as a general word for hot spices and as a specific
word for members of genus Piper.  Black pepper or white pepper (Piper
nigrum), long pepper (Piper longnum),  cubebs (Piper cubeba), betel pepper
(Piper betle, whose leaves are used to wrap betel nuts, Areca catechu) and
kava (Piper methysticum) are all things that might be referred to as pepper,
although the first three would have been more likely to reach the spicer.

IIRC, the transference of the name pepper to the New World Capsicums occurs
in Columbus's journal of his first voyage to the New World where he relates
an undetermined capsicum pepper (possibly a Scotch bonnet) to genus Piper
and notes that he can ship something like 89 caravelles of the peppers to
Spain each year.  He also relates maize to millet and sweet potatoes to
yams.

Remember that most of the discoverers were not trained botanists and most
had no scientists on their expeditions.  They either used variants of the
native names or used the name of something the new foodstuff closely
resembled.

Bear


Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 09:12:10 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Earth Apples?
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> Actually, according to Lang, peppers were introduced into Hungary by
> Bulgarians who got them from the Turks.
>
> Huette

Yep.  I've seen several variants on how peppers got from here to there. The
point is all of the evidence shows them moving into Europe after 1529 when
the Turks rolled into Hungary (IIRC).  Nobody has a definite handle on how
they got there, but the general consensus is the Turks are guilty of
spreading the fire.

Bear


Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2011 18:28:18 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] the oddness of ethnicity - specifically
	hungarian recipe

It has both hot paprika and cherry peppers or hot green peppers.
Those are New World Peppers, so How early can it be?

My guess would be 19th century. And here we go:

"The first two Hungarian paprika recipes did not appear in print until  
1829, in Istvan Czifrai's cookbook. They were paprikas chicken and  
halaszle, the fish soup of Szeged, the center of capsicum culture in  
Hungary then and now." from Why We Eat What We Eat: How Columbus  
Changed the Way the World Eats  By Raymond Sokolov. He mentions  
paprika is talked about as early as 1569, but it doesn't appear in  
cookery books until much later.

It is all over the internet:
http://www.theworldwidegourmet.com/recipes/szeged-fish-soup-szegedi-halaszle/

Johnnae

On Feb 23, 2011, at 5:42 PM, Ian Kusz wrote:
<<< Speaking of which, someone suggested this to me as a healthy food; is it
period, is it tasty, and is it healthy?  Anyone tried to make?  Is  
it a touchy dish, or easy?

szeged fish soup
Ingredients
- 1 tbsp. slightly hot Paprika
- 1/2 cherry pepper
- or 1 hot green pepper, to taste >>>


Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 20:24:58 -0600
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] the oddness of ethnicity - specifically
	hungarianrecipe

Capsicum peppers are first mentioned in Columbus's journal of the first 
voyage.  They show up in Leonard Fuch's Herbal of 1540 and Fuchs's 
nomenclature connects them with the Indian sub-continent rather than the 
East Indies.  There is speculation that capsicum peppers came back to Spain 
with Columbus and were transferred from there to Italy and from there into 
the Ottoman Empire.  It is generally believed that the Ottomans brought them 
(in particular paprika) into Central Europe as early as the incursion of 
1526, but the actual date could be well into the 17th Century.  Trager gives 
1529 as the date paprika peppers were planted in Buda, but he is a highly 
questionable source.  To my knowledge there are no recipes or evidence to 
prove use in Europe before 1600.

The peppers known in Europe before 1600 appear to be Capsicum frutescens, 
while bell peppers are C. annum and don't seem to put in an appearance.

Bear

<<< are bell peppers non-period, too?
and you're saying paprika isn't period, either?  hmmm.....darn, I like
paprika
--
Ian of Oertha >>>


Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 20:10:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] the oddness of ethnicity - specifically
	hungarianrecipe

Looking up paprika in the Oxford Companion to Food, they state that paprika was introduced into Hungary by the Bulgarians, who got them from the Turks, in 1604, according to Lang. They also state that the paprika was very hot then. The current paprika we have today is a product of a process formulated in 1859 that discards the seeds and most of the capsaisin and reduces the heat considerably.

Huette

<the end>
Edited by Mark S. Harris	peppers-msg	Page 27 of 27