cucumbers-msg - 1/29/07 Medieval and period cucumbers. Recipes. NOTE: See also the files: Cucumbers-Hst-art, pickled-foods-msg, peppers-msg, vegetarian-msg, leeks-msg, peas-msg, beans-msg, gourds-msg, beets-msg, vegetables-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 18:13:45 -0700 From: "Anne-Marie Rousseau" <acrouss at gte.net> Subject: Re: SC - cucumbers in period Hi all from Anne-Marie We are asked about recipes for cucumber in period. Might I suggest the cucumbers from Apicius? Easy, tasty and soooo simple to make! "Cucumbers (Apicius #84): Pepper, pennyroyal, honey or passum, liquamen and vinegar. Sometimes silphium is added." AM's version: 2 cucumbers, sliced but not peeled. Make sure to wash that wax off, though. 1/4 tsp fresh black pepper 1/2 T fresh mint (if you dont want to use pennyroyal) 2 T honey 1 c. balsamic vinegar 1 T worsheschestershurstershire sauce ("liquamen" sorta kinda) 2 pinches asafetida ( optional...considered by some a suitable substitute for the now extinct silphium) In a dish, layer the sliced cucumbers with pepper and mint. Mix the marinade from the remaining ingredients. If you warm it slightly, it helps the honey mix. Let cool a bit so as not to cook the cukes. Pour over the cucumbers and let sit for a bit. Serve cold or at room temp. I know of no examples of medieval European food that uses sour cream at all, much less with cukes. Even the middle eastern stuff uses yogurt. - --Anne-Marie Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 17:55:39 EST From: LrdRas at aol.com Subject: SC - Cacik (Cucumbers in Yogurt Mint Sauce)-recipe uther at lcc.net writes: << I would love the recipes for the cucumbers in yogurt mint sauce >> Cacik Adapted by L. J. Spencer, Jr. 2 cups plain yogurt 4 lagre cucumbers, peeled and sliced 3/4 cup water 2 tablespoons fresh mint leaves, finely minced 6 cloves garlic, mashed to a paste 3 tablespoons cider vinegar 4 tablespoons olive oil 6 small ice cubes Salt to taste Mint sprigs, for garnish Mix yogurt, water, mint, garlic, vinegar and oil together until thoroughly blended. Pour mixture over cucumber slices. Toss cucmbers and yogurt mixture together until the cucumbers are thoroughly coated. Add salt to taste. Just before serving stir in ice cubes. Garnish with mint sprigs, chooped fresh mint or a sprinkling of dried mint. NOTES: Original recipe taken from 'A Book of Middle Eastern Food'. Claudia Roden. Vintage Books,a Division of Random House, New York. The original poster stated that early Turks did not have ice cubes so she substituted cold water instead. This is an error because there is some evidence that one of the first things the Turks did after conquest was to establish ice houses. Although this is a modern recipe, it is very much like similar recipes that can be found in al-Baghdadi which dates from the 13th century under the heading of 'Persian milk'. Ras Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 18:51:55 -0500 (EST) From: Gretchen M Beck <grm+ at andrew.cmu.edu> Subject: Re: SC - <sigh> Cucumbers Excerpts from internet.listserv.sca-cooks: 8-Nov-99 SC - <sigh> Cucumbers by "Richard Kappler II" at hom > The question is, when were cucumbers first used in Medieval Europe. I have > Tannahill, who says they were imported into Rome back in the days even > before Adamantius from Spain, as well as that they were used to prevent > scurvy before the Chinese told the Portuguese about citrus, but when were > they first used in Europe after the fall of the Roman empire or, as I > suspect, were they always just there? Recipes and documentation > puhleeeeeeease..... I don't know about first used, but Platina describes three different types of cucumbers (serpentine, and blue, and I don't remember the third), categorizes them as melons, and says they are generally eaten raw, peeled and seeded, and sauced with either salt and pepper, or with salt, oil and vinegar. He also says they aren't necessarily terribly healthy foods ;-) toodles, margaret Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 14:34:04 EST From: ChannonM at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - <sigh> Cucumbers According to Waverly Root's "Food" and I quote The cucumber was slow to penetrate into norther Europe, where after all the claimate was not kindly disposed toward it. It seems to have appeared in France and England about the same time, in the fourteenth century, but it may not have ben known in Germany until the sixteenth if a doucument of that period which chronicles its appearance in Wurttemberg was really reporting a novelty. Hauviette Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 07:33:07 -0600 From: "UnruhBays, Melanie A" <UnruhBays.Melanie.A at broadband.att.com> Subject: RE: SC - Cinnamon Cucumbers If I remember correctly, Platina waxes poetic about cucumbers. About how great they are, how healthful and good. He then of course finds something he likes better later. My copies are at home though, and I can't check at this very moment.... <snip> > C. Anne Wilson, in "Food and Drink in Britain" says that the cucumber > was little known in England in the 15th century, but was widely > cultivated during the 16th century. I have checked all of the late-period > and post-period English cookbooks I own, and the only cucumber > recipes I can find are pickled. I haven't seen any that were sliced raw > and sprinkled with cinnamon sugar. At this point, I would be inclined > label the periodness of Canel Cucumber as "undocumented and > dubious". Does anyone else on the list have anything to add? Has > anyone seen a period recipe like this (from England or elsewhere)? > > Lady Brighid ni Chiarain > Settmour Swamp, East (NJ) Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 09:57:37 -0400 From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net> Subject: RE: SC - Cinnamon Cucumbers And it came to pass on 29 Jun 00,, that UnruhBays, Melanie A wrote: > If I remember correctly, Platina waxes poetic about cucumbers. About how > great they are, how healthful and good. He then of course finds something > he likes better later. My copies are at home though, and I can't check at > this very moment.... Thank you for the suggestion. I have my copy at hand. Platina says that of the 3 types of cucumber, 2 are served with oil and vinegar, and the other with just salt. No cinnamon sugar. Lady Brighid ni Chiarain Settmour Swamp, East (NJ) Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 16:10:30 EDT From: ChannonM at aol.com Subject: SC - Re: Cucumbers in Period > C. Anne Wilson, in "Food and Drink in Britain" says that the cucumber > was little known in England in the 15th century, but was widely > cultivated during the 16th century. I have checked all of the late-period > and post-period English cookbooks I own, and the only cucumber > recipes I can find are pickled. I haven't seen any that were sliced raw > and sprinkled with cinnamon sugar. At this point, I would be inclined > label the periodness of Canel Cucumber as "undocumented and > dubious". Does anyone else on the list have anything to add? Has > anyone seen a period recipe like this (from England or elsewhere)? > > Lady Brighid ni Chiarain I don't have a recipe, but there is a mention in the Petrie household records (think Henry 8th, early in his reign) for seeds of cucumbers. The Petrie household was an English Manor, Sir Petrie I believe. Hauviette Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 13:16:07 -0500 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: RE: SC - Cucumbers and the SCA > I keep running up against the notion, among SCAdians, that > cucumbers are not period. This > is quite definitely a SCAdian Urban Myth, because I've never > seen it in a print source. > So, where is it coming from? If we can figure out where 'pink > isn't period' came from, we should be able to trace this myth too. > > Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise What a fascinating non-fact. Cucumber derives from the Middle English (1100 - - 1500) word "cucomer," derived from Old French derived from Latin. Very prescient of our ancestor to have a word for something they didn't know. That should take care of the documentation and I think Rumpolt has a recipe for cucumber salad, which should take care of the recipe. Come to think of it, I think cucumbers are mentioned in Pliny. Bear Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 14:02:43 -0500 From: "Michael Gunter" <countgunthar at hotmail.com> Subject: SC - noon-member submission - Cucumbers Of course cucumbers are period. I don't know whether the ones you find the grocery store are period varieties(I somehow doubt it), but you can get some periodoid (at least) varieties in places like Indian grocery stores. Platina lists three types of cucumbers and a variety of ways to eat them, so there are extent recipes from Italy 15th C. Elizabethan cookbooks also give recipes for preserving cowcumbers which sound remarkably like recipes for dill pickles. The OED refers cowcumber -> cucumber, and under cucmber says "A creeping plant, Cucumis sativis (family) Cucurbitaceae), a native of southern Asia, from ancient times cultivated for its fruit. Sited in 1400 Of erbis he schal ete femel, melones, cucumeris. Wyclif makes reference to the plant in 1382, Where cucumeris, that ben bitter berbis, waxen. toodles, margaret Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 08:14:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Jenne Heise <jenne at mail.browser.net> Subject: Re: SC - Cucumbers and the SCA [about my cucumbers-msg file - Stefan] > As that is only a recently created file, it is also possible that there > is other period cucumber evidence scattered in other files there. I don't know if it's in any other files, but this study cites seeds of modern, small seeded cucumbers found in an archaeological dig in Gniezno, Poland, in a 12th-century setting (in other words, in the layer that indicated the material was from the 12th century): "Archaeobotanical Evidence for Food Plants in the Poland of the Piasts (10th-13th Centuries AD)", M. Polcyn. Biological Journal of Scotland, vol 46, no 4, p 533-537. - -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise jenne at mail.browser.net Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 08:53:14 -0600 From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] The pumpkin/gourd debate (again) from theapothecary'sworkshop To: <jenne@fiedlerfamily.net>, "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks@ansteorra.org> >> All members of genus Cucurbita are of North American origin, including >> those found in Asia and Africa. Gourds and melons are of Old World origin. >> A quick way to tell the difference is to look at the stem. Cucurbita have >> deeply ribbed stems, the gourds and melons have round, relatively >> smooth, lightly veined stems. > > Now, I'm confused. Cucumbers are genus Cucurbita, but their presence in > Europe pre-dates any significant contact between Old and New Worlds. Do > we have an explanation for that? I didn't find one anywhere. > -- > -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne@fiedlerfamily.net Cucumbers are genus Cucumis, Squashes, gourds, melons, watermelons, cucumbers and luffas are all members of the family Cucurbitaceae. Bear <the end> Edited by Mark S. Harris cucumbers-msg 6 of 6