cabbages-msg - 2/8/08 Period cabbages. Broccoli, cauliflower, Brussel sprouts. Recipes. NOTE: See also the files: vegetables-msg, root-veg-msg, artichokes-msg, eggplant-msg, asparagus-msg, salads-msg, peas-msg, mushrooms-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 20:59:29 -0400 From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: Re: SC - Cook's/peer fear (longish) > what vegebles in the "brocolli" family, if any, are period? They are all > technically mustards aren't they? Yes, they are. Related to cabbages, I believe, also. I remember a huge argument about this on the UseNet newsgroup rec.food.historic fairly recently. Modern broccoli seems to be a fairly recent (19th century or so) development on the part of plant breeders, probably American. The rumor that it was "invented" by a family named Broccoli is simply untrue. The plant we now call broccoli-rabe is probably period, though, although I don't recall any recipes for it offhand. You might check Platina (I don't own a copy---horrors!) and perhaps the Tacuinum Sanitatis, which is sort of a medical manual which talks about almost every conceivable food product available in the late medieval Mediterranean basin. You may find that the leafy, headless cabbages are the closest you will get: things like kale and collard greens. Brussels sprouts, though, are period, I understand. I know that takes a load off your mind ; ) ! Adamantius Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 23:55:08 -0400 From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: Re: SC - Cauliflower Uduido at aol.com wrote: > << But I have seen several period recipes for cauliflower. >> > > Where have you seen these? It was my understanding that a lady in England in > the 1800's went to her garden and spotted a 'white' broccoli among her > regular broccoli plants. Being the intelligent country gardener that she was, > she let the plant go to seed and planted the sed the next year producing > couliflower. From that simple experiment all cauliflower today is descended. > > Lord Ras There are recipes for boiling cauliflower (variously spelled) in late period sources. Without going through my bookshelves for the specific sources, I think that such recipes would be found in things like Dawson's "The Good Huswife's Jewell", Markham's "The English Housewife", Murrell's "New Booke of Cookerie", or perhaps either Hugh Plat or Digby. I believe both broccoli and cauliflower are plants of the Mediterranean Basin, long ignored as weeds, and finally cultivated by the Italians, originally. Adamantius Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 13:53:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Russell Gilman-Hunt <conchobar at rocketmail.com> Subject: SC - cauliflower [(Oliver de Serres' Le Theatre d'agriculture, 1600)] includes instructions for growing the less common kinds [of cabbage] including cauliflower (cauli-fiori), 'as the Italians call it' which are still rather rare in France... Wheaton, _Savoring_The_Past_, 1996, p 66 Conchobar AoA, WOAW, A&S Champion of Three Mountains Apprentice to Ollamh Lono of Adiantium Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 00:49:47 GMT From: korny at zikzak.net (Kornelis Sietsma) Subject: Re: SC - Broccoli & Fennel On Mon, 4 May 1998 04:20:17 EDT, Kallyr wrote: >Oh. Please share this recipe. It sounds perfect & simple. Just the original >is fine. Ok - this is from the text reprinted in "The Original Mediterranean Cuisine", so the copyright for the translation may belong to the author of that book... The author also made the assumption that "tips of fresh cabbage", in a recipe entitled "Green Cabbage" probably meant something akin to broccoli... Green Cabbage with meat (Cauli Verdi con Carne) - - Libro Della Cocina - ---------------- Take the tips of fresh cabbage, and throw them into the boiling pot with the meat, and boil them; then take them out and put in cold water. Then take another lot of stock in another pot, and add the white part of fennel; and when it is time to eat, add the said cabbage to the previous pot, and bring it to the boil, and then add chicken stock, or oil. - ---------------- I boiled 2 heads of fennel with about 500g of broccoli per table, in a huge pot of stock. I boiled them for abour 5 minutes, removed them, washed them under cold water, and then put them back into the same stock for another 5 minutes. I assumed that the change of stock was superfluous with modern washed vegetables :) The second batch of broccoli and fennel I cooked didn't get parboiled first - - it just took too much time - but they still tasted fine. - -Korny - -- Kornelis Sietsma http://zikzak.net/~korny icq: 2039172 e-mail: korny at zikzak.net or korny at a2.com.au Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 09:27:49 EDT From: LrdRas <LrdRas at aol.com> Subject: Re: SC - Broccoli & Fennel allilyn at juno.com writes: << I have often heard prople say that broccoli is not period. If someone has actual documentation for broccoli >> This isn't exactly documentation but it works for me. :-) In "Food" by Waverly Root it says that the word "broccoli" once meant 3 things> 1. Brassica oleracea italica, 2. B. oleracea botrytis, 3. The flower stalk that pushes up from the center of any cabbage at the end of it's life (it is edible). No.1 is broccoli as we know it. No.2 is cauliflower. No.3 is still referred to as "broccoli" in France. Apicius was noted for his skill in handling broccoli. Drusus, son of Tiberius was accused of overindulging in it. Introduced into France by Catherine de Medici. First known use of the word broccoli in French was in 1560. Broccoli did not arrive in England until 1720. Ras Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 09:12:16 -0500 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: RE: SC - Broccoli & Fennel Broccoli (Brassica oleracea italica) appears to have been used in Ancient Rome. Catherine de' Medici is attributed with bringing them to France, where they became popular in the 17th Century. They became popular in England in the 18th Century. Related vegetables are cauliflower (Brassica oleracea botrytis) and brussel sprouts (Brassica oleracea gemmifera). Cauliflower has been grown since Roman times. Brussel sprouts are an 18th Century creation. The primary source for this is Trager's The Food Chronology, so take it with a grain of salt. I haven't checked Apicius yet, but I would say both broccoli and cauliflower are period in the context of an Italian meal. Bear Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 11:04:19 -0700 From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com> Subject: RE: SC - Broccoli & Fennel At 9:12 AM -0500 5/6/98, Decker, Terry D. wrote: (comments on broccoli snipped) >Brussel sprouts are an 18th Century creation. > >The primary source for this is Trager's The Food Chronology, so take it with >a grain of salt. However, Menagier mentions something which sounds pretty similar: "Heads of cabbage, at the end of grape-harvest. And when the head of this cabbage, which is in the middle, is removed, pull and replant the cabbage stalk in new ground, and there will come out large spreading leaves: and a cabbage holds great place, and these are called Roman cabbages, and eaten in winter; and from the stalks, if they are replanted, come little cabbages called sprouts which are eaten with raw herbs and vinegar; and if you have plenty, they should be well cleaned, washed in hot water, and put to cook whole with a little water: and then when they are cooked, add salt and oil, and stir it up thick without water, and put olive oil on in Lent." Elizabeth/Betty Cook Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 19:13:38 +1000 From: Robyn Probert <robyn.probert at lawpoint.com.au> Subject: SC - RE: Recipes as promised (long) TOMC = The Original Mediterranean Cuisine <snip of asparagus recipes> Fennel and Leek TOMC "Take the white part of the fennel, finely chopped, and fry with a little white of leek, finely chopped, with oil or salted pork, and add little water, saffron and salt, and bring to boil, and add beaten egg if desired." 'Salted pork' is pancetta. Broccoli with Fennel TOMC "Take the tips of green cabbage, and throw them into the boiling pot with the meat and boil them; tghen take them out and put in cold water. Then take abnother lot of stock in another pot and addthe white part of fennel; and when it is time to eat, add the said cabbage to the previous pot, and bring it to the boil and then add chicken stock, or oil." Note the blanch-then-cold-water technique! This one could be easily adapted fopr vegetarians by using vegetable stock (as per previous discussion). As an aside, you can add body and "mouth feel" to a veggie stock by using the cooking water from a pot of beans as a starter/additive. Also adds nutritional value (the protiens are what make the stock thicken). Rowan Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 00:40:33 EDT From: KKimes1066 at aol.com Subject: SC - Coleworts---- Caroline help! << Or are you thinking of ancestral coles? If so, they still grow wild along the coasts of England. >> This is not the information I have. Sylvia Landsberg, in her book "The Medieval Garden" states: "The lack of a suitable small headed cabbage is not so important as the loss in England, only recently, of the colewort, ubiquitous in medieval it's nearest relative being a non-curly kale." I have found her cross references to by well above par and regard her as an expert in this field (or garden in this case). If Ras is right then I don't need to do this project, if he is mistaken then it's full steam ahead. Percival Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 06:48:29 -0500 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: RE: SC - Coleworts---- Caroline help! > This is not the information I have. Sylvia Landsberg, in her book "The > Medieval Garden" states: "The lack of a suitable small headed cabbage is > not so important as the loss in England, only recently, of the colewort, > ubiquitous in medieval it's nearest relative being a non-curly kale." > > Percival I think you will find Ras is correct. Cabbage is one of the oldest cultivated plants, so old that a number of variants were in existence by the time Rome became a world power. Because they are so wide-spread and all the same species, the loss of a type of cabbage in English gardens does not denote its extinction, merely a change in English tastes. Bear Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 21:52:56 -0700 From: "Anne-Marie Rousseau" <acrouss at gte.net> Subject: Re: Re[2]: SC - Italian Ren Feast Hi all from Anne-Marie Micaylah sez: > Turnips YEEEEEEAAAACK! One of my three "nightmare" vegetables. Cauliflower > (in any form) <shudder> and Brocolli (it's ooookay raw). now, usually I hate it when someone says this to me but.... You haven't tried MY cauliflower! :) Robert May tells us to boil the collies in milk, which turns the slightly bitter taste into a delightful sweet nutty flavor. I converted several collie haters with this one! May dishes it up with boiled chicken and a tart egg-lemon sauce. Yum! --AM Madrone/An Tir Seattle/Madrone Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 22:01:51 EST From: LrdRas at aol.com Subject: SC - Broccoli-a new world food? HICKS_M at casa.gov.au writes: << My allergy (avocado) and most of my sensitivities are new world foods (tomato, broccoli etc.) so I don't generally bother informing SCA cooks. >> I strongly suggest that you do inform the cook if broccoli or cauliflower are a problem with you. Thay are both Old World and period, dating back to at least Roman times. Ras Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 21:43:45 -0600 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: RE: SC - Broccoli-a new world food? > I knew Cauliflower was - wasn't sure about Broccoli. Was it refered to > as Broccoli or did it have another name? > > Meliora. They're all varieties of cabbage. I don't have my notes handy, but memory says they are all believed to be descended from sea kale found on northern European coasts. Leafy forms with very small heads came first, then selective breeding produced cauliflower and broccoli, followed by head cabbage. Brussel sprouts are the newest variety. There is some question about the precise introduction of Brussel sprouts, but there is evidence to support its existence in period. Bear Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 07:33:34 -0500 From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: Re: Broccoli - was: SC - Sir Loin... LYN M PARKINSON wrote: > So, Master A., did they eat broccoli leaves--which taste like > broccoli--or eat no broccoli--or...??? Probably what they ate, if at all, was a wild variant along the lines of broccoli-rabe. Neither Platina nor any Tacuinum Sanitatis I've seen, nor Apicius, mention broccoli. (There are references to cauliculae in Apicius, which Flower and Rosenbaum translate as cabbage, but why wouldn't Apicius use brassica? I suspect cauliculae, which really translates as "little cabbage stalks", refers to what we call Brussels sprouts.) More likely broccoli wasn't widely eaten until the 16th or 17th century, with the big florette-y broccoli probably coming into being in California in the late 19th century. Adamantius Crown Province of stgardr, East Kingdom Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 19:45:36 -0400 From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow) Subject: Re: SC - Minces >Hello list, > >Could someone please tell me where in Le Menagier de Paris is found the >recipe for Minces? My copy (by Falconwood Press) is missing several >pages, most notably page 255, where I suspect the recipe might be, but >I'm not positive. > >Minces is the recipe for brussel sprouts; it's been reprinted in Pleyn >Delit, but I'm interested in finding the original receipt. The index for >Le Menagier has no mention of minces, but Pleyn Delit (version 1) says >its recipe comes from Le Menagier de Paris. Their version reads: > >"Minces. Little cabbages called minces are eaten with raw herbs in >vinegar; and if one has plenty, they are good shelled, washed in hot >water, and cooked whole with a little water; and when they are cooked, >add some salt and oil and serve thick, without water, and put olive oil >on them in Lent." > >My thanks! Feel free to write me privately if you'd like to avoid >cluttering up the list with extra mail! > >BTW, is there anyone from Falconwood Press on this list? > >Master Huen >-- >A Boke of Gode Cookery >http://www.labs.net/dmccormick/huen.htm Hello! It's on page 143 of Pichon's edition: [page 142] "Pore de minces26 est en saison, de Janvier jusques Pasques, et encore aprs. Et nota que faire pore au lait d'amandes, le lait ne doit point estre coul par l'estamine; en aucuns autres potages ou boire, si fait. Pore noire est celle qui est faite la ribelette de lart; c'est assavoir que la pore est esleue, lave, puis mince et esverde en eaue boulant, puis fritte en la gresse des lardons; et puis alaier27 d'eaue chaude frmiant (et dient aucuns, qui la laveroit d'eaue froide, qu'elle seroit plus laide et noire), puis convient mettre sur chascune escuelle deux lardons. CHOULX sont de cinq manires: les meilleurs sont ceulx qui ont est frus de la gele, et sont tendres et tost cuis; et en temps de gele ne les convient point pourboulir, et en temps pluyeux, si. (Et commence iceulx pour ce que ce sont de celle anne les premiers crus, scilicet puis Avril,28 et puis va en descendant vers vendenges, Nouel et Pasques.) [page 143] Choulx blanc sont en la fin d'Aoust. Pommes de chou , sur la fin de vendenges. Et quant la pomme d'icelluy chou , laquelle est ou milieu, est oste, l'en arrache et replante en terre nouvelle le tronc de ce chou, et en yssent larges feuilles qui s'espandent: et tient un chou grant place, et l'en appelle iceulx choulx nomms29 choulx Rommains, et sont mengis en yver; et des troncs, se ils sont replants, yssent de petits choulx que l'en appelle minces, que l'en mengue avec les herbes crues en vinaigre; et qui en a foison, ils sont bons esleus, lavs en eaue chaude, et tous entiers mis cuire avec un petit d'eaue: et puis quant ils sont cuis, mettre du sel et de l'uile, et drcis bien espois sans eaue, et mettre de l'uille d'olive dessus en karesme. Puis y a autres choulx que l'en appelle choulx pasquers pour ce que l'en les mengue en Pasquerez,30 mais ils sont sems ds Aoust; et quant aprs la semence ils sont percreus demy-pi de hault, l'en les arrache et plante-l'en ailleurs, et sont souvent arrouss. Aussi tous les choulx dessusdis sont premirement sems, puis quant ils sont creus demy-pi de hault, sont osts et replants. Et premirement des pommes, est assavoir que quant icelles pommes sont effeuilles, eslites et minces, il les convient trs-bien pourboulir, et longuement plus que les autres choulx, car les choulx Rommains se veullent le vert des feuilles dessirer par pesches,31 et le jaune, c'est assavoir les arrestes ou veines,32 [p. 144] escaches33 ou mortier, puis tout ensemble esverder en eaue chaude, puis espraindre et mettre en un pot et de l'eaue tide, qui n'a assez eaue de char: et puis servir du plus gras et34 de l'eaue de la char, et plusieurs y broient du pain. Et sachez que choulx veulent estre mis au feu ds bien matin, et cuire trs-longuement et plus longuement que nul autre potage, et bon feu et fort, et doivent tremper en gresse de beuf et non autre, soient pommes ou choulx ou quels qu'ils soient, except minces. Sachez aussi que eaue grasse de beuf et de mouton y est propre, mais non mie de porc; celle de porc n'est pas bonne fors pour poreaux. Aprs, l'en fait choulx, jour de poisson, aprs ce qu'ils sont pourboulis, cuire en eaue tide: et mettre de l'uille et du sel." The notes for this section are: [p. 142] 26 Voy. pages 48 et 143. 27 Dlayer. 28 On sait que l'anne commenoit alors Pques. Les annes 1392, 1393 et 1394, dans lesquelles on [p. 143] peut fixer l'poque de la composition du Mnagier (ainsi que je crois l'avoir dmontr dans l'Introduction), commencrent toutes trois en Avril. top of page 29 Les trois manuscrits portent nomms; je crois qu'il faut lire pomms ou pommes. 30 Temps de Pques. 31 Dchirer par pices. 32 Cotons. [p. 144] 33 crass. 34 Et parot tre de trop. Greg Lindahl & I are slowly webbing Pichon's edition at: http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/menagier/ Cindy (the two-fingered typist) Renfrow/Sincgiefu renfrow at skylands.net Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 06:31:06 -0500 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: RE: SC - BrusselsSprouts > I was wondering if you could give me some help on Brussel Sprouts. > My question to the wise amongst us is > are the sprouts in question really the "minces" as claimed in Pleyn Delit?, > and if you think they are do they appear in any other sources apart from > this. I know that they were grown in Belgium in the middle ages but were > they plentiful anywhere else? > > Heather Since Belgium was established in 1831, I doubt Brussel Sprouts were grown in that country in the Middle Ages. Root states the Belgians (members of said tribe) were growing them around 1200. IIRC, Belgium at the time was part of Burgundy. Also, according to Root, Brussel sprouts did not appear in England until the 19th Century. This would make the identification of "minces" as Brussel sprouts questionable. Again, IIRC, they are probably of Mediterranean origin and were fairly common in the Germanic states in period, where they were known as Rosenkohl (rose cabbage). Bear Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 08:38:57 EDT From: LrdRas at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - BrusselsSprouts tamamsk at hotmail.com writes: << do they appear in any other sources apart from this. >> I am not convinced that they are 'minces' but I have no evidence to the contrary. :-( Another source of Brussels sprout recipes would be Apicius, IIRC. There are also allusions to cabbage 'sprouts' in other manuscripts. I think one of the main problems we have in identifying the various Cole varieties in period (specifically medieval) manuscripts is the apparent lack of specific terms for individual varieties. For instance, cabbage 'flowers' could be broccoli or cauliflower or possible actual flowers of cabbage. Cabbage leaves could be kale or sea kale, collards, or the leaves from any other Cole variety. Depending on whether you are using the first or second edition of Pleyn Delit will depend on how many grains of salt you take. The first edition has errors which the second edition corrected so the latter could be taken with fewer grains than the first. Even today it is difficult to wade through the Cole family since every one has the same scientific name whether it be Brussels sprouts or collard greens. Ideally the cultivar name is attached to the scientific name so you can generally understand what is being referred but this is not always the case. The best sources of modern information use common names for the coles which allows you to readily identify the particular Cole being discussed. If you have access to a variety of forms and maturities of coles, you might try the recipe using various possible forms (e.g., cabbage leaves, sea kale, kale, collards) when a reference is vague. The best tasting result would be the best choice, IMO. I hope this has not been too confusing but it does illustrate the uncertainty regarding specific varieties used in any particular period recipe. with regard to certain plant types. Ras Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 09:11:20 -0400 From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: Re: SC - BrusselsSprouts Heather Payton wrote: > I was wondering if you could give me some help on Brussel Sprouts. I am > catering a period feast and wanted to give them a go as there will be mostly > adults and they usually like them. My question to the wise amongst us is > are the sprouts in question really the "minces" as claimed in Pleyn Delit?, > and if you think they are do they appear in any other sources apart from > this. I know that they were grown in Belgium in the middle ages but were > they plentiful anywhere else? The only actual period reference to Brussels sprouts I can think of offhand is the same one Hieatt, Butler and Jones use: Le Menagier de Paris, roughly 1390 C.E. In Eileen Powers' partial translation, it states, "Cabbage hearts at the end of the vintage. And when the heart of the cabbage, which is in the midst, is plucked off, you pull up the stump of the cabbage and replant it in fresh earth, and there will come forth from it big spreading leaves; and the cabbage takes a great deal of room and these cabbage hearts be called Roman cabbages and they be eaten in winter; and when the stumps be replanted, there grow out of them little cabbages which be called sprouts and which be eaten with raw herbs in vinegar; and if you have plenty, they are good with the outer leaves removed and then washed in warm water and cooked whole in a little water; and then when they be cooked add salt and oil and serve them very thick, without water, and put olive oil over them in Lent." I believe Powers translates "minces" as "sprouts" not because the word is a direct translation, but because the process seems to be pretty much that by which we get Brussels sprouts today, and so we'll know what Le Menagier is talking about. I just checked Platina for any reference to such sprouts, but found none, and I'm pretty sure there are no references to them in any of the 14th -15th century English sources. I'd say, as a general statement, that Brussels sprouts were known in parts of Europe, but not grown in all, possibly due to a shorter growing season in the more Northern parts of Europe. Adamantius Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 08:54:19 PDT From: "pat fee" <lcatherinemc at hotmail.com> Subject: SC - Requested recipe for Cabbage with leeks and Bacon Here is the recipe for Cabbage with leeks and baccon. I'm sorry it took so long, but I have been investigating the preservation of my family's recipe book. Cabbage with leeks and Bacon 1 head cabbage(green or red your choice) core removed and sliced 1/2 to 1 inch thick 4 slices of good Bacon the book calls for "side" meat, chopped and cooked slowly until the bits are crisp and there is a pool of Bacon fat in the bottom of your pot. 4 or more good big leeks sliced, white and 1/2 inch of the green. I suppose you could use onion for this if you wish. Use a good big one. Layer the leeks and cabbage in the pot on top of the Bacon bits and fat until it reaches an inch or so below the top, or until you run out of ingredients. Pour 1 1/2 cups of liquid. water works, but ale or beer is better over the cabbage ect. Cover tightly, place over heat source and let gently steam for about 20 minutes. Uncover and stir well. Serve Lady Katherine McGuire Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 01:02:50 EST From: allilyn at juno.com Subject: Re: SC - To make a tarte of Medlers Thomas mentions: If this recipe does not please you ("Medlers that be rotten"), there are other recipes, e.g. in the "Rheinfr 0nkisches Kochbuch" #31 in the RK is for cabbage, but says you can also do medlars, pears, etc. The same cabbage you can also prepare, in this put sweet spice powder and figs that are simmered in boiling water (or possibly just plumped rather than cooked). Give into it wine vinegar, strew raisins and almond kernels over it. You can also do medlars, pears and all the other ingredients (types of fruits or vegetables?) as you choose and not only the beet greens, but also slices of the beets from which the beet greens were taken. This is a fairly loose translation. I take it to mean that the medlars, pears, or other fruits could be used in place of the figs and/or raisins. I steamed a whole Savoy cabbage for High Table, interleaved it with steamed chard, making a nice contrast of pale and dark green leaves, and stuffed bits of figs, raisins, almonds and wine into the crevices of the leaf bases. Threw nasturium petals over, to jazz up the looks. The hollowed center of the cabbage was full of a sort of large meatball, taken from Gwen-Cat's 'pumpes' from her translation of Rumpole. King Christopher loved it. Other folks got the pumpes, but we didn't cook the chopped cabbage--too late and everybody full. Allison, allilyn at juno.com Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 08:52:23 -0600 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: RE: SC - Garden Advice > By the way, what _is_ sea kale (besides some type of herb;-), ie what does it > look like, does it have any other names, what type of flavouring does it have, > & what types of dishes would you use it in? > > Thanks, Lorix Sea kale (Crambe maritima) is a cabbage-like plant found along the coast of Northern Europe. It is related to the Brassica (cabbages) and some authorities believe it to be the closest relative of the ancestoral cabbage. It resembles kale, a non-heading cabbage. Bear Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 13:35:30 -0400 From: Elaine Koogler <ekoogler at chesapeake.net> Subject: Re: SC - Brussel sprouts The recipe I've been promising for the Brussels Sprouts is: Herbed Brussels Sprounts Brussels sprouts 1 10 oz pkg. frozen (actually, I use fresh ones...) Onion, 1 small, thinly striped. Butter, 1 tbsp. Garlic, 1 clove, minced Thyme, 1/4 tsp. Oregano, 1/4 tsp. Salt 1/4 tsp. Pepper, 1/4 tsp. Steam sprouts and onion slices for about 10 minutes. In a sauce pan melt butter. Saute the garlic until brown. Add the steamed sprouts and onion, thyme, oregano, salt and pepper. Cook, stirring ooccasionally, for 4-5 minutes, until vegetables are heated through. I hope you all enjoy...I know I do! Kiri Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2000 00:06:46 +0200 From: Thomas Gloning <gloning at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE> Subject: SC - Brussels sprouts, Rosenkohl // What is "Tyffan"? // Bohemian cookbook 1591? << ... I make brussel sprouts with sauteed onions and bacon diced, salt and pepper, honey and vinegar. ... It is similar to the treatment for hot German potato salad I learned from a Czeck butcher. Basically a sweet and sour taste. I have not really studied the German texts, maybe Thomas could tell us if that treatment is period? >> As far as I can see brussels sprouts were not known in 16th century Germany and before. Therefore, the treatment of brussels sprouts in the way you described it, would not be period, too. "As far as I can see", here means: I did some _quick_ diving around in: - -- German dictionaries (Grimm'sches Wrterbuch, Paul/Henne/Objartel, Alphabetisches Verzeichnis deutscher Pflanzennamen, Weigand/Hirt, Trbner, Kluge/Gtze, the old culinary dictionaries of Marperger 1716 and Amaranthes 1715), - -- herbals (Tabernaemontanus 1731, which often includes references to the earlier herbals), - -- cookbooks (my electronic collection of German texts 1350 onwards), - -- dietary texts (Elsholtz' Diaeteticon), - -- books on culinary and food history (Moriz Heyne, Wiswe) but could not find anything indicating that brussels sprouts (and the aforesaid treatment of brussels sprouts) were known before 1600. There is one book which made me wonder. The German translation of "The book of ingredients" says on one page, that brussels sprouts were cultivated only something more than a hundred years ago (18th century), but on another page that (someone said) they were cultivated first in the Netherlands in the Middle Ages ("ROSENKOHL. Er soll erstmals in den im Mittelalter blhenden G 0rtnereien der Niederlande gezchtet worden sein"; p.240; "soll" ~ 'someone said/wrote that'). Up to now, I did not see medieval recipes for brussels sprouts in this thread, rather several people marked their posts with "OOP". Is there any evidence for brussels sprouts in the Middle ages somewhere? As always: I will keep my eyes open & : mistrust everything I said, I might have looked for the _wrong_ German word (there were other dialectal forms or words for brussels sprouts, e.g. _kohlsprossen_, on the other hand, the expression _Rosenkohl_ was earlier used for a kind of broccoli, too) ... <snip of beverage info> More questions than answers. Sigh. Thomas Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 09:30:44 EDT From: ChannonM at aol.com Subject: SC - Re: Brussel sprouts in Period- Le Menagier In a message dated 4/7/00 9:08:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Thomas writes: << Up to now, I did not see medieval recipes for brussels sprouts in this thread, rather several people marked their posts with "OOP". Is there any evidence for brussels sprouts in the Middle ages somewhere? >> According to the Menagier, Cabbages are of five kinds; the best are those which have been touched with frost etc... snip Head of cabbage, at the end of grape harvest. And when the head of this cabbage, which is in the middle, is removed, pull and replant the cabbage stalk in the new ground, and there will come out large spreading leaves; and a cabbage holds great place and these are called Roman cabbages, and eaten in winter, and from the stalks, if they are replanted, caome little cabbages called sprouts which are eaten with raw herbs and vinegar, and if you have plenty they should be well cleaned, washed in hot water and put to cook whole with a little water and thebn when they are cooked add salt and oil, and stir it up thick without water, and put olive oil on in Lent. Then there are other cabbages......... My Laurel has created a recipe using brussel sprouts in vinegar and herbs, when I find it I'll post it. Hauviette Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 10:51:37 -0500 From: "Michael F. Gunter" <michael.gunter at fnc.fujitsu.com> Subject: SC - Brussel sprouts > Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to prepare brussel > sprouts in such a manner that this lady will like (and eat) them. > > /UlfR As an avowed Brussel Sprouts hater I actually came up with one that I like. Take brussel sprouts that are slightly opened. Boil them until a fork inserted in the base goes in fairly easily. Transfer the sprouts to a small, high-sided pan. (I use a pie tin). Add 1/2 stick butter and a generous sprinkling of minced garlic (About 2 cloves) and a bit of salt and pepper. Top with seasoned bread crumbs mixed with parmesian cheese. Broil until the tops of the sprouts begin to turn brown. Most of the bitterness has either been removed in the boiling or is covered by the flavors of garlic and parmesian. Very nice. > Par Leijonhufvud Gunthar Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 09:28:26 -0400 From: "Jeff Gedney" <JGedney at dictaphone.com> Subject: Re: SC - Brussel sprouts For me, when it comes to Brussel Sprouts, Simplicity rules. I like them prepared this way: with the tip of the knife, slit the stem ends in a cross, steam until just tender, and serve with a judicious splash of Balsamico. Even my _kids_ love them this way. brandu Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 12:08:56 -0400 From: Christine A Seelye-King <mermayde at juno.com> Subject: SC - Brussel Sprouts Using a recipe I got from a Garde Manger chef I used to work with, I make brussel sprouts with sauteed onions and bacon diced, salt and pepper, honey and vinegar. It is the most amazing thing to see non-brussel sprout eaters lick the pan clean! It is similar to the treatment for hot German potato salad I learned from a Czeck butcher. Basically a sweet and sour taste. I have not really studied the German texts, maybe Thomas could tell us if that treatment is period? Christianna Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 11:04:07 -0500 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: RE: SC - Brussels sprouts > but could not find anything indicating that brussels sprouts (and the > aforesaid treatment of brussels sprouts) were known before 1600. > > Thomas I have some conflicting references (tertiary and quaternary sources at best) for brussels sprouts which place them anywhere from the 13th Century to the 18th Century. The best potential reference I have seen is that brussels sprouts and kohlrabi are first mentioned in Rembert Dodoens' (Dodonaeus) "Cruydeboek" of 1554. I have not been able to locate a copy of this work to verify the statement. The original work is in Dutch. Bear Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 19:55:37 EDT From: ChannonM at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - Brussels sprouts, Rosenkohl // What is "Tyffan"? // Bohe mian cookbook In a message dated 4/11/00 4:53:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time,Bear writes: << The best potential reference I have seen is that brussels sprouts and kohlrabi are first mentioned in Rembert Dodoens' (Dodonaeus) "Cruydeboek" of 1554. I have not been able to locate a copy of this work to verify the statement. The original work is in Dutch. Bear >> I just saw a reference to kohlrabi in I believe a much earlier (maybe 12 C) list of stores or goods available from the grounds of the French King at the time. I'll check it out again and report back. I was thrilled at the list of food items, but was researching 12th C Ireland at the time and skipped it (I knew I should have saved) It's on a web site of Medieval manuscripts. Hauviette Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 17:55:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com> Subject: RE: SC - Brussels sprouts, Rosenkohl // What is "Tyffan"? // Bohe mian cookbook 1591? - --- "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> wrote: > I have some conflicting references (tertiary and quaternary sources at best) > for brussels sprouts which place them anywhere from the 13th Century to the > 18th Century. > > The best potential reference I have seen is that brussels sprouts and > kohlrabi are first mentioned in Rembert Dodoens' (Dodonaeus) "Cruydeboek" of > 1554. I have not been able to locate a copy of this work to verify the > statement. The original work is in Dutch. > > Bear It was translated into English in 1578 and called "A Nievve Herball, or Historie of Plantes" Lots of libraries have various editions of this in English, Dutch, and French. You can find this in these libraries: Yale Harvard Library of Congress Brigham Young Univ. Univ. of Minnesota Univ. of Syracuse Univ. of Rochester, NY Univ. of Chicago Univ. of Calif. Berkeley Stanford Univ. Univ. of Iowa Columbia Temple Univ. Univ. of Pennsylvania Brown Univ. Univ. of Michigan Univ. of Florida British Library There is a library in Missouri that has this also, but they are new to RLIN and are not on my list of RLIN subscribers yet. This book also has been translated into Japanese and is called "Ensai Dodoneusu Somokufu"! Huette Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 15:38:56 -0700 From: lilinah at earthlink.net Subject: SC - Three Easy Pieces, or Verjus Redux The Shire of Crosston, with whom i camp, has a period pot-luck feast at every Crown Tournament (3 per year in the West). There are always guests, so there are around 2 dozen diners or so, and frequently other folks show up looking for food and we feed them, as well. Generally, there's plenty. At The West Kingdom March Crown Tourney just passed, I made three dishes from Barbara Santich's "The Original Mediterranean Cuisine" for the Saturday night feast. I didn't use her "redactions" for any of them, just referred to the originals and the translations. VERJUS REDUX I have now used the Fusion brand Napa Valley Verjus that i bought from Whole Foods and i thought it was quite nice. I tasted a spoonful of it before pouring some into the dish i was cooking - i'm weird, i probably could have drunk a juice glass of it - it was tart and fruity, but not bitter. I used it in a recipe for garbanzo beans cooked in almond milk. This was not the unpleasant white grape Fusion brand verjus that Niccolo di Francesco wrote about. I used the Fusion red verjus, which was a lovely purplish red color and was neither unpleasantly tart nor at all bitter, as Niccolo says the Fusion white was. I don't have the recommended Navarro brand to compare it with, but the Fusion red was quite good. PIECE ONE Ciurons Tendres Ab Let de Melles (from Sent Sovi) <snip of chickpeas recipe - see beans-msg> PIECE TWO Cauli Verdi con Carne (from Libro della Cocina) ORIGINAL: Togli le cime de' cauli sane, e gittale nelle pentola bugliente con le carne, e falli bullire; e cavali e metti nell'aqua fredda. Et tolto d'altro brodo in un'altro pentola, mettivi del biancho dei finocchi; et quando e ora del mangiare, poni i detti cauli con brodo nella pentola predetta; fa' bullire un poco, e puoi mettervi brodo di carne di caponne, o oglio. TRANS: Take the tips of fresh cabbage, and throw them into the boiling pot with the meat, and boil; and take them out and put them in cold water. Then take another broth in another pot, put the white part of fennel; then when it is the time to eat, add that cabbage in the broth in the previous pot; make it boil a little, and then chicken stock or oil. "Green cabbage" and finocchi/fennel cooked with meat. Santich says "In the text it is not clear exactly what is intended by 'green cabbage' nor by cime - which could refer to the tips of the cabbage or to the infloresence, which might have meant broccoli [which, she notes, was known by the 15th century]. In these recipes I have used both" WHAT I DID: I did not follow this recipe exactly. (1) I used frozen broccoli flowerets to save prep time on site. It was Crown and i knew i'd be busy. As it turned out, i was much busier than i'd expected - i didn't even get to set up the Moorish Science Reading Room. (2) Besides the broccoli, i tossed in some quartered Brussels sprouts. Since so many folks say they don't like Brussels sprouts, i didn't want to make the dish using nothing but them (as "cabbage sprouts"). And i didn't hear any protestations from diners, who probably didn't even realize they were eating the dreaded vegetable. I cut the white part of the fennel in medium-large cubes (about 3/4"). (3) The recipe says to cook each vegetable separately in meat stock. As it was Lent, i cooked them in vegetable stock. Also we have a couple vegetarians in our Shire and other who are guests, so i like to make sure there are filling meatless dishes available. (4) Also, i didn't have enough pans or serving dishes with me, so i cooked the vegetables together. I'd have done them separately, but i couldn't. The broccoli was still just about frozen, so i added all the vegetables at the same time. When they were done i tossed them with a little olive oil. I didn't even salt them, since the vegetable stock they'd cooked in was well seasoned. I was concerned that the flavor of the fennel would be strong, a taste i don't care for. In fact, it was quite mild, and the dish was a nice blend of green and white. I left the vegetables a tad firm from personal preference. PIECE THREE On Preparing a Salad of Several Greens (from de Honesta Voluptate) <snip of salad recipe - see salads-msg> - --------------- I picked these dishes because they were relatively quick and easy to prepare at a busy event, yet authentic. I was actually done cooking before the others who cooked on site. (i mention this because i'm usually still cooking when everyone is already eating) Anahita al-shazhiyya Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 15:46:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Jenne Heise <jenne at mail.browser.net> Subject: Re: SC - help on documentation Oh, by the way, here's some cabbage recipes: From the Domostroi: "Chop cabbage, greens, or a mixture of both very fine, then wash them well. Boil or steam them for a long time. On meat days, put in red meat, ham, or a little pork fat; add cream or egg whites and warm the mixture. During a fast, saturate the greens with a little broth, or add some fat [oil?] and steam it well. Add some groats, salt and sour cabbage soup. Cook kasha the same way; steam it well with lard, oil, or herring in a broth." - -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise jenne at tulgey.browser.net Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 00:52:50 From: "pat fee" <lcatherinemc at hotmail.com> Subject: Re: SC - Seeking Cabbage Recipe Scotts Cabbage (Sangster family cook book) (Translation) This makes enough for 4-6 persons. 1 large head cabbage 1/4 lb baccon cubed and browned 4 large leeks, sliced in medium slices white part only 4 cloves garlic, minced 1/4 cup verjuice or cider vinegar 1/2 cup water or white wine. Salt if needed. Core cabbage, and cut in thick slices. Cook baccon in a medium heavy pan with a lid, untill browned. Remove the baccon bits. Cook leeks and garlic in baccon drippings until wilted. Remove when done. Layer cabbage, baccon bits, cooked leeks and garlic untill all are used. Combine verjuice and wine or water. Pour over the layers and cover and cook over medium low heat untill cabbage is tender. To serve drain and mix layers togather. Reduce pan"juice" by half. tast and add salt if neccessary. Pour reduced "juice" over cabage etc. Serve with buttered bread crumbs sprinkled over the top. Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 18:35:46 -0800 From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com> Subject: Re: SC - Seeking Cabbage Recipe At 3:41 PM -0800 11/30/00, lilinah at earthlink.net wrote: >I planned to include Caboges in Potage from Forme of Cury in the >Boar Hunt Feast, but it just isn't exciting me. I have a "recipe" >with no source from a previous Boar Hunt [red cabbage, garlic, >vinegar, honey, ginger, pepper]. But i'm trying very hard to make >authentic recipes, although they are coming from several centuries. > >Any source for a tasty cabbage recipe? I want something savory to >zing with the sausage. I'm very fond of this one; and it's easy: Caboges Two Fifteenth Century p. 6/33 Take fayre caboges, an cutte hem, an pike hem clene and clene washe hem, an parboyle hem in fayre water, an thanne presse hem on a fayre bord; an than choppe hem, and caste hem in a fayre pot with goode fresshe broth, an wyth mery-bonys, and let it boyle: thanne grate fayre brede and caste ther-to, an caste ther-to Safron an salt; or ellys take gode grwel y-mad of freys flesshe, y-draw thorw a straynour, and caste ther-to. An whan thou seruyst yt inne, knocke owt the marw of the bonys, an ley the marwe ij gobettys or iij in a dysshe, as the semyth best, and serue forth. 1 medium head cabbage 4 lb marrow bones 1 T salt 4 c beef broth 6 threads saffron ~ 2 c breadcrumbs Wash cabbage. Cut it in fourths. Parboil it (i.e. dump into boiling water, leave there a few minutes). Drain. Chop. Squeeze out water. Put it in a pot with beef broth and marrow bones. Simmer until soft, stirring often enough to keep it from sticking (about 20 minutes). Add saffron, salt, enough bread crumbs to make it very thick. Simmer ten minutes more. Serve. - -- David Friedman ddfr at best.com Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 11:16:35 +0200 From: "Jessica Tiffin" <jessica at beattie.uct.ac.za> Subject: SC - Re: Seeking Cabbage Recipe Anahita said, in pre-feast jitter mode: > I planned to include Caboges in Potage from Forme of Cury in the Boar > Hunt Feast, but it just isn't exciting me. I have a "recipe" with no > source from a previous Boar Hunt [red cabbage, garlic, vinegar, > honey, ginger, pepper]. But i'm trying very hard to make authentic > recipes, although they are coming from several > centuries. There's a _lovely_ cabbage, apple and bacon recipe from an Italian source in Barbara Santich's The Original Mediterranean Cuisine - I've made it several times for cooks' guild meetings and suchlike, and it goes down very well. I fear I'm rather short on detail as I don't have the book with me, aaargh, maybe someone else does, or else I can type it in when I'm at home this afternoon? (Which is probably the dead of everyone else's night, but hey.) JdH Lady Jehanne de Huguenin * Seneschal, Shire of Adamastor, Cape Town (Jessica Tiffin, University of Cape Town) Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 13:35:51 -0700 From: "Brian L. Rygg or Laura Barbee-Rygg" <rygbee at montana.com> Subject: Re: SC - Seeking Cabbage Recipe Here is the requested recipe. I included the original and its translation as she did take some liberties with her redaction IMHO. I wouldn't use bacon but the fresh salt pork slices that just look like bacon. Raoghnailt Cabbage with fennel and apple (Santich's redaction) Finely shred 1/4 Savoy (green) cabbage, drop into boiling salted water and boil 1 minute, then drain and rinse. Finely slice 1 small onion and half a bulb of fennel. Fry in 2-3 tablespoons olive oil until soft. Peel, quarter, and core a small apple and cut into small cubes (chop). Add to onion and fennel with drained cabbage and a little stock or water. Cover and steam for 5 min., then remove lid and cook a little longer to evaporate most of the liquid. Season with freshly ground pepper and salt to taste. As a variant, add strips of pancetta to the pan with the onion and fennel. The salty tang of the pancetta contrasts nicely with the natural sweetness of the onion, fennel, and apple. Cauli Verdi (Libro Della Cochina) (original) Togli le cime dei cauli, e falle bullire: poi le cava, e friggile nell'oglio con cipolle tagliate, e bianco di finocchi, e pome tagliate; e poni dentro un poco di brodo: et poi fa' le scudelle. e gittavi su de le spezie. Possonsi eziandio fare con lo lardo, col cascio e con l'ova perdute, et ponervi de le spezie; e dara' al Signore. Green Cabbage (translation) Take the tips of cabbage, and boil them: then remove them, and fry in oil with sliced onion, and the white part of fennel, and sliced apple; and add a little stock: and then serve it in bowls and sprinkle with spices. And you can also cook it with salted pork fat, with cheese and with poached eggs, and add spices; and offer it to your Lord. Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 19:23:45 -0500 From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: Re: SC - Period food in the workplace lilinah at earthlink.net wrote: > The original of the Santich recipe used a term for which the actual > vegetable is uncertain. Santich suggested broccoli, which i used. I > decided to use brussel sprouts, too, which i cut in halves or > quarters, because my understanding - or perhaps misunderstanding - > was that they are both late period and this was a late period recipe > and not knowing exactly what vegetable to use i figured they were > both about equally close. > > It was served at a pot luck dinner at a camping event, and it was > dark. I think if i'd said i'd made a dish of brussel sprouts no one > would have eaten it, but i said it was broccoli and no one complained > and i didn't notice folks digging out the brussel sprouts by candle > light. And the pot was empty by the end of the meal. I'm almost certain there's a fairly detailed description of the different forms of vegetable that you can get from one cabbage plant, in Le Menagier de Paris, IIRC. As I recall it's a progression something like, round headed cabbages first, then a short growing season for headless leaves, kind of like collard greens, then what amounts to Brussels sprouts last... I believe Ras has some information about this. Santich's mysterious vegetable may be cabbage at one of these alternate stages. Do you recall what term she uses? There is probably more stuff about cabbage and how it grows in Cato's De Agri Cultura. I'll look, later tonight. Adamantius From: lilinah at earthlink.net Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 11:45:41 -0700 To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Subject: [Sca-cooks] German Recipes: Mushrooms? <snip> Third, there's no recipe for Cabbage in Sabrina Welserin, at least not the version on-line. However, i did find cabbage recipes in other German sources. ONE http://cs-people.bu.edu/akatlas/Buch/recipes.html # 48: Source: Das Buch von Guter Spise Translated & Reacted by Alia Atlas copyright Alia Atlas Ingredients 2 cup red wine vinegar 1/2 tsp caraway seeds 1 tsp ground anise 1/2 tsp pepper 1/4 tsp saffron (opt) 1 head of Cabbage Directions: Mix vinegar, honey, and spices Wash cabbage and shred. Soak cabbage in marinade for at least 1 hour. The original is on Thomas Gloning's website. TWO There are several in Rumpolt, but not useful for my feast. I'll most likely do the one from Guter Spise using red cabbage for color ...is red cabbage period? Anahita / Subaytila From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <rcmann4 at earthlink.net> To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 00:36:54 -0400 Subject: [Sca-cooks] Recipes: Cabbage with Bacon; Sausages This looks like a nice hearty dish, and a simple one to prepare. Source: Diego Granado, _Libro del Arte de Cozina_ (1599) Translation: Lady Brighid ni Chiarain (Robin Carroll-Mann) Para hazer escudilla de repollo Tomase el repollo blanco apretado, y de buen peso y quitadas las ojas de encima tomese la parte mas blanca, cortese, lauese con agua fria, pongase en en caldo de carne hiruiendo, con tocino gordo picado, y papada de puerco salada, y rellenos, y hagase heruir en vn vaso ancho donde no esten las cosas muy apretadas, y estando cozidos siruase caliente el repollo con las demas cosas, poniendole queso rallado, pimienta, y canela por encima. El repollo quiere ser quitado del caldo en el punto que esta` cozido, porque quedandose en el caldo se buelue colorado, y azedo. Puedesele dar tambien vn hervor en el agua simple, primero que se ponga en el caldo. To make a dish of head cabbage Take the white head cabbage, tightly closed and of good weight, and the leaves on top being removed, take the whitest part, cut it, wash it with cold water, put it in boiling meat broth with chopped fatty bacon, and salted pork neck, and sausages, and boil them in a wide vessel where the things will not be very crowded, and when they are cooked, serve the cabbage hot with the rest of the things, putting grated cheese, pepper, and cinnamon on top. The cabbage should be removed from the broth at the moment that it is cooked, because if it is left in the broth, it will become red and sour. You can also give it a boil in plain water before it is put in the broth. Translation notes: "repollo" is the term for round head cabbage, as opposed to the open leafy kind <snip of sausage recipe - see sausages-msg> Brighid, who finds that recipes are a pleasant respite from watching the news Brighid ni Chiarain *** mka Robin Carroll-Mann Barony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom rcmann4 at earthlink.net Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 12:07:32 -0500 To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] um, red cabbage in period? Also sprach jenne at fiedlerfamily.net: >Do we have any documentation for red cabbage in period? I know German >cooks swear it is period, but I kinda need a book reference if there is >one for something I'm writing. Marx Rumpolt, in his 1581 "Ein New Kochbuch", sez: >33. Nimb ein rot Haeuptkraut/ schneidts fein klein/ vnd quells >ein wenig in warmen Wasser/ kuels darnach geschwindt au=DF/ machs mit >Essig vnd Oel ab/ vnd wenn es ein weil im Essig ligt/ so wirt es schoen rot. Roughly translated: Take a head of red cabbage/ cut it nice and small/ and blanch it a little in hot water/ then cool quickly/ make it with vinegar and oil/ and if it lies a while in the vinegar/ it becomes nice and red. Adamantius From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> To: "'sca-cooks at ansteorra.org'" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org> Subject: [Sca-cooks] um, red cabbage in period? Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:09:11 -0600 Rumpolt's Ein Neu Kochbuch has a red cabbage salad (No. 33 in the section on salads) in it. It may have some other recipes, but I haven't done much with it. There are also some 16th Century paintings which show red cabbage (IIRC). You might check Thomas Gloning's web page for references. Bear > Do we have any documentation for red cabbage in period? I know German > cooks swear it is period, but I kinda need a book reference > if there is one for something I'm writing. > > -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:25:16 -0500 From: johnna holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu> To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] um, red cabbage in period? I'd check the Dutch artworks of the 16th-17th centuries for pictoral evidence. Weaver indicates that some of the heirloom red cabbages that we grow now were grown at least as far back as the early 18th-late 17th centuries. Unfortunately, cabbages cross pollinate, so varieties have sprung up rather freely through the centuries. Johnnae llyn Lewis Johnna Holloway Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 06:46:20 -0600 To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org From: Diana Skaggs <upsxdls_osu at mail.ionet.net> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] um, red cabbage in period? >Marx Rumpolt, in his 1581 "Ein New Kochbuch", sez: >>33. Nimb ein rot Haeuptkraut/ schneidts fein klein/ vnd quells >>ein wenig in warmen Wasser/ kuels darnach geschwindt au=DF/ machs mit >>Essig vnd Oel ab/ vnd wenn es ein weil im Essig ligt/ so wirt es schoen rot. > >Roughly translated: >Take a head of red cabbage/ cut it nice and small/ and blanch >it a little in hot water/ then cool quickly/ make it with vinegar and oil/ >and if it lies a while in the vinegar/ it becomes nice and red. > >Adamantius I used this salad in my German feast last fall. I used a ratio of 2:1:1 of olive oil, red wine vinegar and balsamic vinegar. Bear also suggested (and I did) add a bit of sugar to the dressing to cut the bitterness of the vinegar. The neatest thing about this salad: when the cabbage is blanched, it turns a nauseating blue color. But, when the dressing is added, it turns a beautiful burgundy red. Also, it could have marinated awhile. I took what little was left over home with me. It stayed crisp for a couple more days. Liadan From: "Jane Williams" <jane at williams.nildram.co.uk> To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 21:18:54 +0100 Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] broccoli and cauliflower and sprouts On 24 May 2002 at 14:57, Decker, Terry D. wrote: > I've also come > across a drawing of brussels sprouts purporting to be from 1587, but I > haven't isolated the source. Aren't they (or something like them) mentioned in the Menagier? Translation says: "And when the head of this cabbage, which is in the middle, is removed, pull and replant the cabbage stalk in new ground, and there will come out large spreading leaves: and a cabbage holds great place, and these are called Roman cabbages, and eaten in winter; and from the stalks, if they are replanted, come little cabbages called sprouts which are eaten with raw herbs and vinegar; and if you have plenty, they should be well cleaned, washed in hot water, and put to cook whole with a little water: and then when they are cooked, add salt and oil, and stir it up thick without water, and put olive oil on in Lent." I think this is the right bit of the original (my French is pretty rusty): "Et quant la pomme d'icelluy chou , laquelle est ou milieu, est ost=E9e, l'en arrache et replante en terre nouvelle le tronc de ce chou, et en yssent larges feuilles qui s'espandent: et tient un chou grant place, et l'en appelle iceulx choulx nomm=E9s choulx Rommains, et sont mengi=E9s en yver; et des troncs, se ils sont replant=E9s, yssent de petits choulx que l'en appelle minces, que l'en mengue avec les herbes crues en vinaigre; et qui en a foison, ils sont bons esleus, lav=E9s en eaue chaude, et tous entiers mis cuire avec un petit d'eaue: et puis quant ils sont cuis, mettre du sel et de l'uile, et dr=E9ci=E9s bien espois sans eaue, et mettre de l'uille d'olive dessus en karesme." From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> To: "'sca-cooks at ansteorra.org'" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] broccoli and cauliflower and sprouts Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 17:05:14 -0500 > I'm confused. All those 16th century Flemish kitchen/veggie girl paintings > with cauliflower's recognizably in the painting - these are plants that look > like our modern ones, but are of a different genus or something? > > Rosine No, not even a different species. What you are seeing is a 16th Century representation of B. oleracea var. botrytis. The only difference between it and the cauliflower at your supermarket is the particular strain it represents. > > I've also come > > across a drawing of brussels sprouts purporting to be from 1587, but I > > haven't isolated the source. > > Aren't they (or something like them) mentioned in > the Menagier? > > Translation says: > "And when the head of this cabbage, which is in the > middle, is removed, pull and replant the cabbage > stalk in new ground, and there will come out large > spreading leaves: and a cabbage holds great place, > and these are called Roman cabbages, and eaten in > winter; and from the stalks, if they are replanted, > come little cabbages called sprouts which are eaten > with raw herbs and vinegar; and if you have plenty, > they should be well cleaned, washed in hot water, > and put to cook whole with a little water: and then > when they are cooked, add salt and oil, and stir it up > thick without water, and put olive oil on in Lent." I had forgotten that one. It does make the point about B. oleracea that all of the varietals are only different physical manifestations of the same plant. Bear From: jenne at fiedlerfamily.net Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 23:44:19 -0400 (EDT) To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] broccoli and cauliflower > After digging through this, I'm even more convinced that period "broccoli" > and "cole-flowers" were so different from what's now found in groceries > that it would be misleading to claim that either broccoli or cauliflower is > period. Parkinson, 1629: "The Cole flower is a kinde of Coleworte, whose leaves are large, and like the Cabbage leaves, but somewhat smaller, and endented about the edges, in the middel wehereof, sometimes in the beginning of Autumne, and sometimes much sooner, there appeareth a hard head of whitish yellow tufts of floers, closely thrust together, but never open, nor spreading much with us, when then is fittest to be used, the greeen leaves being cut away close to the head; this hath a much pleasanter taste then eyther the Coleworte, or Cabbage of any kinde, and is therefore of the more regard and respect at good mens tables." The accompanying woodcut is quite clearly a small cauliflower. Gerard's _Herbal_ (1597, though poss. 1633, but not marked as a Johnson addition): "Cole flore, or after some Colieflore, hath many large leaves sleightly indented about the edges, of a whiteish greene colour, narrower and sharper pointed than Cabbage; in the middlest of which riseth up a great white head of hard floures closely thrust together, with a root full of stringes, in other parts like to the coleworts." (Again, the woodcut is quite recognizeably cauliflower.) -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 13:32:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Louise Smithson <helewyse at yahoo.com> To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Subject: [Sca-cooks] RE: Contribution to SCA-potluck I have to confess to bringing the brussel sprouts in a pipkin. There is no true redaction for this recipe yet just a rough guide based on what I did at Pennsic in 20 minutes before the potluck. Original recipe taken from Libro Del Coch (14/15th C Italian). If you want to make cabbage sprouts, take the cabbage sprouts rounded and do them to cook a while; when the are a little boiled take them from (the fire) and pour well away the water, and then fry them much and fat, and then take verjuice, parsley and water, and spices and salt, temper these all together and put above (the sprouts) and let them well boil. Then take a little of marjoram and temper with water, and put it above and it will be good. What I had: 1 lb bag frozen brussel sprouts, dropped in cast iron pan (they were still frozen at this point) on stove with a big splash of olive oil and fried until lightly browned in places. Meanwhile I was mashing a handful of parsley with a good pinch of salt and easily 1/2 teaspoon of spice mixture (cinnamon, ginger, sugar, black pepper), about 2 tablespoons of verjuice and maybe 10 or so of water. Once everything had been rendered paste like I threw it on the sprouts, added a little more water so that they were just covered, reduced the heat and cooked it some more. I then tasted one, added some more salt and spices and a little bit more verjuice (another tablespoon or two). I let the sauce mostly reduce until the brussels were hot and starting to become tender. Helewyse de Birkestad Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 17:56:56 -0500 From: "Phil Troy/ G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius at verizon.net> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Looking for Crab recipes To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org> Recipe 6 in The Forme of Cury, Caboches in potage: Take caboches and quarter hem, and seeth hem in gode broth with oynouns ymynced and the whyte of lekes yslyt and ycorue smale. And do (th)erto safroun & salt, and force it with powdour douce. As I recall we used a generic sort of vegetable stock base, so non-meat-eaters would have access. We could have used almond milk, but there were other almond dishes on the menu so I wanted to avoid that. Since this is intended as a pottage, you sort of have to assume that either the cabbages are cut small, or cooked until spoonable. I opted for quartering the cabbages, parboiling them in just barely enough broth to cover them, with the minced onion and chopped leeks, removing the cabbages from the pot, and letting the rest cook down