beets-msg - 7/19/09 Period beet roots and beet greens. Recipes. NOTE: See also the files: vegetables-msg, greens-msg, sugar-msg, root-veg-msg, salads-msg, cabbages-msg, root-veg-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 10:31:59 -0400 (EDT) From: "Christina M. Krupp" Subject: SC - Re: Pickled egg recipes -- BEETS? I've been observing this flurry of pickled-egg recipes with interest. Most of the recipes offered recently include beet root or beet juice. My understanding is that beet greens were eaten in period, but the root of the period beet was an unremarkable thing. The glorious ruby root that we are all familiar with, and the sugar-beet root which is a different variant, were post-period developments. Beet juice makes an excellent food-coloring agent, giving shades of dark red that are unavailable from other natural sources. If beets were available in the Middle Ages, wouldn't we see beet juice listed among other medieval food colorings such as saunders, saffron, and parlsey juice? It seems notable in its absence. I am very fond of cooked beet-roots and I'd love to be able to use them at feasts with a clear conscience. Can anybody offer evidence of their use in medieval recipes? - -- Marieke Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 17:52:37 -0400 From: John and Barbara Enloe Subject: Re: SC - Re: Pickled egg recipes -- BEETS? I think that the sugar beet is actually period. There is a European Castle that I saw on A&E that was from the 1400's that has sugar beets as part of the Device of the owners, a baron something or other. I will try to find the particulars. Lord Jonathus Fitche d'Abercrombie Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 21:09:42 -0500 From: dangilsp at intrepid.net (Dan Gillespie) Subject: SC - beets Elizabeth wrote: "(Did people eat beetroot?). As far as I can tell, no. Every time I find a reference to beets, it seems to mean greens. Maybe beetroot got developed into something big enough to be useful after our period?" There is a mention of both white & red, or Roman beets, clearly as a root vegetable in the 1633 edition of Gerard's Herbal; he says they're boiled & eaten with oil, vinegar & pepper. I haven't had a chance to look at the earlier 1598 edition to see if this entry was included there as well. His description makes it sound like eating beet roots was not yet a strongly established practice at the time the information was published. They are likely very late period at best. Hope this helps, Antoine de Bayonne Dan Gillespie dangilsp at intrepid.net Dan_Gillespie at usgs.gov Martinsburg, West Virginia, USA Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 18:04:33 -0500 (EST) From: LrdRas at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - beets << There is a mention of both white & red, or Roman beets, clearly as a root vegetable in the 1633 edition of Gerard's Herbal; he says they're boiled & eaten with oil, vinegar & pepper. >> Does he SPECIFICALLY mention bulbs or roots? Swiss Chard is the much older form of beets dating back to pre-Roman times. It comes in a white stalked and a red stalked variety. And, surprisingly, bears the exact same scientific name as bulbous beets. I have always used chard when beets are called for in early recipes and was under the impression that these are what is meant by the word "betas". If the use of bulbous beets before 1500 can be documented as consumed by humans, it would be great. I would then have several redactions that I could rework and a source for another relatively inexpensive vegetable. Ras Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 18:52:28 EST From: melc2newton at juno.com (Michael P Newton) Subject: Re: SC - beets >Elizabeth wrote: "(Did people eat beetroot?). According to _Medieval English Gardens_ byn Teresa McLean (one of my current library books, you all need to check this one out - its got lots of stuff on who grew what for what reason. it is however a very bad spoon tease! ANYWAYS) In the chapter on the vegatable patch, McLean states that most vegatables were grown for the 'porray' pot and mostly the leaves were used. In fact, she states that root vegetables weren't grown unless its leaves were useful in the pot as well. The one root she claims was popular was the radish - all of the others were just to bland! Lady Beatrix (wondering now just how period borsht really is?) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 11:51:56 -0500 (EST) From: DianaFiona at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - beets << Does he SPECIFICALLY mention bulbs or roots? Swiss Chard is the much older form of beets dating back to pre-Roman times. It comes in a white stalked and a red stalked variety. And, surprisingly, bears the exact same scientific name as bulbous beets. >> Yes, he does! Both red roots and perhaps white, but the quote that you were replying to seems to refer to the leaves to me, since after suggesting serving the boiled red beets with oil, vinegar, and pepper as a salad, he says: "....but what might be made of the red and beautifull root (which is to be preferred before the leaves, as well in beautie as in goodnesse) I refer unto the curious and cunning cooke, who no doubt when hee had the view thereof, and is assured that it is both good and wholesome, will make thereof many and divers dishes, both faire and good." He also says, if I understand him right, that this red variety was given to him from "beyond the seas" by a merchant, and that it grew for him in 1596 to a height of 8 cubits.(!!! Isn't a cubit about 18 inches? That's HUGE!) That it sounds like the red beets were not common in England at the time, although if we could discover where the seeds Gerard was given came from we could reasonably assume that they were used in that country. However, when discussing the white beets, he doesn't specifically say that the roots were eaten, but refers to them as "thicke, hard and great.", which sounds to me like they might be large enough to eat. So it might be possible that the *white* roots were consumed in England--they seemed to eat just about anything else that wasn't posionous! ;-) Ldy Diana, who also wants to find documentation for a veggie she really likes! Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 08:01:05 EDT From: Balano1 at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - beets & cabbage (= polish borsch) As far as I know, Borsch is Russian-Polish in nature. Quite yummy though! Have 2 recipes: Simple Borsch Wash, peel and coarsely grate 8 young beets. Simmer the beets in 4 cups water for 20 minutes or until they are tender. Stir in the juice of 1 lemon and add sugar, salt, and pepper to taste. Continue to cook for 5 minutes longer and either strain and remove the beets or process them in (for a more textured borsch). Chill and serve with a dollop od sour cream. Polish Borsch Simmer 2 quarts good beef bouillion with 1 large onion, chopped, for 2 hours. Strain the stock and remove any fat. Wash, chop and soak in hot water, 4 large dried mushrooms, add them to the hot soup and boil for 15 minutes. Toss 1 teaspoon sugar with 3 cups grated beets, 1 cup diced carrots, 1 teaspoon chopped parsley, and 2 cups shredded cabbage. Let stand until the sugar is dissolved. Add the mixture to the soup and continue to cook for 15 to 20 minutes, until the vegetables are tender. Strain out (or process in) the vegetables and add 1 cup sour cream and 1 teaspoon lemon juice to the soup. Reheat without boiling and add salt if needed. Serve with a mealy, fresh boiled potato in each soup plate. - - Sister Mary Endoline Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 14:02:15 -0400 From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow) Subject: Re: SC - beets & cabbage Gerard (1633 ed. of the 1597 work) writes of beets in his Herball, pages 318-319: "Beta alba. White Beets....the white Beete is a cold and moist pot-herbe...Being eaten when it is boyled, it quickly descendeth... especially being taken with the broth wherein it is sodden... Beta rubra, Beta rubra Romana. Red Beets, Red Roman Beets. ...The great and beautiful Beet last described may be vsed in winter for a salad herbe, with vinegar, oyle, and salt, and is not onely pleasant to the taste, but also delightfull to the eye. The greater red Beet or Roman Beet, boyled and eaten with oyle, vineger and pepper, is a most excellent and delicate sallad: but what might be made of the red and beautifull root (which is to be preferred before the leaues, as well in beauty as in goodnesse) I refer vnto the curious and cunning cooke, who no doubt when he hath had the view thereof, and is assured that it is both good and wholesome, will make thereof many and diuers dishes, both faire and good." His illustration of the Red Roman Beet shows a plant with a skinny taproot. That bit about "who no doubt when he hath had the view thereof, and is assured that it is both good and wholesome, will make thereof many and diuers dishes, both faire and good" suggests that the red beet was not well known in England at that time. Waverly Root, in his book "Food", p. 30, says that early Romans ate only the greens, but by the beginning of the Christian era they were eating the leaves & roots. He says root beet appears in Charlemagne's garden list, but that the root beet had to be re-introduced into Renaissance France. Parkinson, "Paradisi in Sole...", p. 490, says "The great red Beete that Master Lete a Merchant of London gaue vnto Master Gerard, as he setteth it downe in his Herball, seemeth to bee the red kind of the last remembred Beete [Red Roman Beet], whose great ribbes as he saith, are as great as the middle ribbe of the Cabbage leafe, and as good to bee eaten, whose stalke rose with him to the height of eight cubits, and bore plenty of seede... The roote of the common red Beete with some, but more especially the Romane red Beete, is of much vse among Cookes to trimme or set out their dishes of meate, being cut out into diuers formes and fashions, and is grown of late dayes into a great custome of seruice, both for fish and flesh. The rootes of the Romane red Beete being boyled, are eaten of diuers while they are hot with a little oyle and vinegar, and is accounted a delicate sallet for the winter; and being cold they are so vsed and eaten likewise." (Note: The beet grown in Gerard's garden must have caused quite a sensation at the time. 8 cubits tall! What's the tallest beet you've ever grown?) is borscht appropriate for 12th c ireland? >=== > Conchobar Mac Muirchertaig Based on the above, my guess is 'no'. Cindy Renfrow/Sincgiefu renfrow at skylands.net Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 17:15:16 EDT From: melc2newton at juno.com Subject: Re: SC - beets & cabbage Here is the Ukrainian Borsch I used at my Russian inn last winter (no, it has no documentation to it, sorry :( Pisnyi Borsch 2 lbs. beets 1 carrot 1 parsnip 1 turnip 2 celery ribs 2 medium onions 1 bay leaf 3-4 peppercorns 3 dried boletus or 1\2 chopped mushrooms Liquid from mushrooms (optional) 1 teaspoon sour salt 2 teaspoons salt 1 teaspoon ground pepper or to taste 2 teaspoons fresh chopped dill Soak boletus overnight. Cook in a little water until tender. Cool, reserve liquid, and chop fine. Scrub beets and cut into quarters. Cover with water and cook over low heat until tender, about 1 to 2 hours. Cool, pour off and reserve liquid. Slip off peels. This may be done a day in advance. Peel and cut up the other vegetables, Add bay leaf, peppercorns, and mushrooms to vegetables, with enough water to cover and cook in a large non-aluminum pot over low heat until tender. Strain beets liquid into vegetables. Shred beets in a processor or on a medium frater, and add.Simmer for ten minutes, and strain into a large pot. To keep broth clear, do not press vegetables. Add sour salt , mushroom liquid, pepper and salt. Bring to a gentle boil, then turn heat on low. Taste, the flavor should be tart mellow, and full. For more tartness, add fresh lemon juice or sour salt. Keeps well in refrigerator. Reheat gently; do not overcook, or the color will turn brown. To serve pour over 3-4 small potato dumpling (to which if you want the recipe, I'll dig the book out of the public library) in soup plates, and garnish with chopped dill. The reason I didn't copy the dumpling recipe is that I was going to serve it in cups so people could walk around without spilling any. It may be more complicated than the other recipes you've gotten, but the taste is unbelievably good! Beatrix Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 10:30:19 -0800 From: david friedman Subject: Re: SC - Spinach Tarte from Menagier-Recipe to follow later At 11:25 AM -0400 9/11/98, Nick Sasso wrote: >I do apologize for sucha 'spoon-teaseism'. I will, with much haste post >said recipe for all. I am at work, and may not have access until later in >the weekend, but it will be pposted in its original and redacted entirety. While you're waiting, here's our redaction (and the original) from the Miscellany: - -- Spinach Tart Goodman p. 278/23 -"A Tart" (GOOD) To make a tart, take four handfuls of beet leaves, two handfuls of parsley, a handful of chervil, a sprig of fennel and two handful of spinach, and pick them over and wash them in cold water, then cut them up very small; then bray with two sorts of cheese, to wit a hard and a medium, and then add eggs thereto, yolks and whites, and bray them in the cheese; then put the herbs into the mortar and bray all together and also put therein some fine powder. Or instead of this have ready brayed in the mortar two heads of ginger and onto this bray your cheese, eggs and herbs and then cast old cheese scraped or grated onto the herbs and take it to the oven and then have your tart made and eat it hot. 1/3 lb spinach and/or beet greens, chopped 2 T dried or 1/4 c fresh chervil 1/2 t ginger 1/2 cup fresh parsley, chopped 5 eggs 1/2 t salt 1 or 2 leaves fresh fennel, or 6 oz mozzarella cheese 9" pie crust 1 t fennel seed, ground in a mortar 6 oz cheddar Chop or grate greens and cheese and mix filling in a bowl. Make pie crust and bake at 400° for about 10 minutes. Put filling in crust and bake about 40 minutes at 350°. We usually substitute spinach for beet leaves, dried chervil for fresh, and fennel seed for fresh fennel leaves because of availability. David/Cariadoc http://www.best.com/~ddfr/ Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 14:27:57 +0000 From: Erin Kenny Subject: Re: SC - Spinach Tarte from Menagier- Cariadoc wrote: > While you're waiting, here's our redaction (and the original) from the > Miscellany: > -- > Spinach Tart > Goodman p. 278/23 -"A Tart" (GOOD) > We usually substitute spinach for beet leaves, dried > chervil for fresh, and fennel seed for fresh fennel leaves because of > availability. GO FOR THE BEET GREENS!!! (not a criticism -- I understand the difficulties in procuring them) Beet greens have a much milder flavour than spinach, and usually you can get them for a song at a market (I have yet to pay for any of mine -- the farmers just ask if I have any rabbits and then scratch their heads). Claricia not a great spinach fan Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 21:58:55 EDT From: LrdRas at aol.com Subject: SC - Beets- A recipe Erin.Kenny at sofkin.ca writes: << GO FOR THE BEET GREENS!!! (not a criticism -- I understand the difficulties in procuring them) Beet greens have a much milder flavor than spinach, >> Agreed. However, I use Swiss chard in this recipe. Swiss chard has the same scientific name as beets and is in fact a bulbless beet. Swiss chard is readily available at most supermarkets year around. It is easily grown in the home garden. The stalks can be used in any recipe that calls for asparagus. It also has the amazing property of not going all mushy when you can it. ( 15 quarts today and twice that many to can on Sunday)! Since there is some confusion about the exact time beets with bulbs were introduced in period, I almost always use Swiss chard when redacting most of the beet recipes from period cookery manuals. They are one of my favorite foods. :-) Betes (A Recipe for Swiss Chard) (Period-like) Copyright L. J. Spencer, Jr. 2 pounds Swiss Chard 1/2 cup liquid (your choice of water, beef or chicken broth) 1/2 tsp. salt 1 tsp. sugar 1/4 tsp. ground cubebs A pinch of ground ginger 2 strips bacon, fried crisp Red wine, Cider or balsamic vinegar Cut stalks of chard into 1 inch pieces. Slice chard leaves into 1 inch wide strips crosswise. Bring liquid to a boil in a medium saucepan. Drop Swiss chard stalks and leaves into boiling liquid. Add salt, sugar, cubebs and ginger. Cover. Reduce heat to a simmer. Continue cooking for 15 mins. Remove from heat and drain. Place chard on a serving dish. Sprinkle with bacon then sprinkle a small amount of vinegar over the top. Serves 4. Ras Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 13:08:02 -0800 From: david friedman Subject: Re: SC - Spinach Tarte from Menagier- Cariadoc sent our version of Menagier's spinach and other greens tart, including the comment: >> We usually substitute spinach for beet leaves, dried >> chervil for fresh, and fennel seed for fresh fennel leaves because of >> availability. and Claricia/Erin Kenny wrote: >GO FOR THE BEET GREENS!!! (not a criticism -- I understand the >difficulties in procuring them) Beet greens have a much milder >flavour than spinach, and usually you can get them for a song at a >market (I have yet to pay for any of mine -- the farmers just ask if >I have any rabbits and then scratch their heads). We have done it with the mixture of beet greens, spinach and other herbs called for in the original; by the time you have all the other greens, seasonings, and the cheese in there, it doesn't make a large difference in taste whether you have just spinach or both spinach and beet greens. Part of the reason we use spinach as a substitute is that Menagier considers spinach to be one sort of beet greens. Elizabeth/Betty Cook From: To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: beets and sugar... niadro at yahoo.com writes: << Can anyone familiar with these roots confirm or go into detail what to look for in a beet? I'm deprived of practical information....maybe because I've lived in the central-midwest US all my life. >> The beet you described is ideal. Young, with leaves that are fresh and turgid with little wilting. This advice is also good for any vegetable whether it be beets, carrots, parsnips, peas or anyother sort. Buy then as young as possible. Young vegetables contain more sugars than older ones and freshly harvested more than those even a couple of hours old. If you cannot get fresh and young, the addition of 1 scant tsp of sugar to every 2 cups of vegetable at the beginning of the cooking process will 'freshen' them somewhat. This holds true for most foods that can't be cooked immediately after purchase/harvest. We have evidence of this practise throughout the the corpus of medieval recipes where sugar is a common ingredient. When we think 'sugar' in the current middle ages, we seem to think 'sweet' rather than 'mellow'. This is a mistake, IMO. If sugar is used in spice quantites rather than dessert quantities if becomes a wonderful flavor enhancer easily on a par with MSG or any of the other equally obnoxious modern ingredients used for that purpose. Many people who redact recipes automatically dump masses of sugar into any period recipe that calls for it. This is an error. Think of sugar like we now think of salt and pepper and your period recipes will then take on more depth and become automatically tastier. :-) Ras Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 08:17:20 EDT From: To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: beets jkrissw at earthling.net writes: << Must be one of those different-sides-of-the-Atlantic things. :-) Are those given to animals over there, or are we talking about two different plants? >> The term beetroot is generically applied to any bulbous like root of the Beta sp. It is specifically used in the cattle industry to mean the root of the sugar beet and is most often marketed as 'beet pulp' (e.g. by product of sugar production) in the Northeast USA. Sugar beets were known and grown in the middle ages and only used for animal feed. Red beets were also known and grown but the root was long and rather small so the tops would not have been discarded. The nice round red beets we are familiar with were not created until very , very late in period (or possibly the Italian Renaissance). Swiss chard and red beets were not differentiated in any period beet recipes that I have seen and work better with tops than bottoms. You can buy seed that produces cylindrical beets but for the space, Swiss Chard would be a better choice. Ras Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 20:58:23 -0700 From: "Tracy Ryan" To: Subject: Re: beets Beets (tops and roots) are used in many traditional recipes in Eastern Europe. I can place the use of beet in dishes around the 14th century there. Ukrainian/Slavic cookbooks like to give the history of their traditional dishes. I've even discovered, in a Russian cookbook, that cheesecake is period. Caireach Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 09:19:39 EDT From: WOLFMOMSCA at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - Period Beet Recipes (was: summer feast) >From the Good Huswives Handmaid, 1588 How to make Lumbardy Tarts Take beets, chop them small, and to them put grated bread and cheese, and mingle them wel in the chopping. Take a few corrans, and a dishe of sweet butter, and melt it. Then stir al these in the butter, together with three yolkes of egges, sinamon, ginger, and sugar, and make your tart as large as you will, and fill it with the stuffe, bake it, and serve it in. I tried this once with canned beets and it was, well, not so good. There was a bitter after taste from the canned beets. I haven't got around to trying it with fresh beets, but it might taste better with them. Good luck. Wolfmother Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 18:19:50 -0400 From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow) Subject: Re: SC - Period Beet Recipes (was: summer feast) From Robert May, The Accomplisht Cook, or the Art and Mystery of Cookery. Printed by N. Brooke for T. Archer, 1660: A Grand Sallet of Beets, Currants and Greens Take the youngest and smallest leaves of spinage, the smallest also of sorrel, well washed currans, and red beets round the center being finely carved, oyl and vinegar, and the dish garnished with lemon and beets. Cindy Renfrow/Sincgiefu cindy at thousandeggs.com Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 08:41:11 -0400 From: Philip & Susan Troy Subject: Re: SC - Period Beet Recipes (was: summer feast) LrdRas at aol.com wrote: > stefan at texas.net writes: > << Is there any particular reason you think this is to be done with beet roots > instead of beet leaves? >> > > This is the same question I asked myself. So off to the kitchen I went. The > resulting product is definitely more tasty using greens instead of beetroot. > This doesn't mean that greens were used but it does mean that my version of > this recipe will specify the greens. :-) > > Ras The 15th-century Rouen Tacuinum has an illustration for "bletes" or beets, showing a lady cutting the greens off close to the ground and gathering them in a basket. This may not have been universal practice, but it at least indicates pretty clearly that it was done. Adamantius Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 09:12:23 EDT From: WOLFMOMSCA at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - Period Beet Recipes (was: summer feast) stefan at texas.net writes: << Is there any particular reason you think this is to be done with beet roots instead of beet leaves? This sounds very much like some of the tarts I think I've seen that were done with various herbs. >> Actually, there are a couple of reasons I think this is done with the root, not the greenery. It's really late period, for one. If it was from an earlier period, say 15th, as opposed to 16th century, then it would fit with the greenery tart theory. But by Elizabethan times, folks were using the root as well. Another reason comes from Gerard. Gerard's Herbal, admittedly published in 1597, but obviously a work which did not spring full-blown from John Gerard's forehead in that year, mentions the root part of the red beet as being both good and wholesome, and left it up to "cunning" cooks to devise "many and divers dishes". He states the "red and beautifull root (which is preferred before the leaves, as well in beautie as in goodnesses). The Roman beet is different from the white & green beets previously grown as potherbs. Having made up some of these, the visual effect is actually quite stunning. It makes a pretty tart. Fresh beets are a winter crop here in Florida, so I'll grab some fresh ones later in the season and try it again. The dish is actually a bit on the sweet side, and the bitter back-bite of the canned beets was more than I liked. Others may find the startling change of taste from the front of the mouth to the back very piquant and pleasing, but I didn't. It's probably just my own taste biases which made this less than appealing as a feast food for me, but it is quite in keeping with Elizabethan tastes for opposing tastes in the same dish. Wolfmother Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 09:53:36 -0400 From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow) Subject: Re: SC - Period Beet Recipes (was: summer feast) Actually, what Gerard said was: "Beta alba. White Beets. ...the white Beete is a cold and moist pot-herbe...Being eaten when it is boyled, it quickly descendeth... especially being taken with the broth wherein it is sodden... Beta rubra, Beta rubra Romana. Red Beets, Red Roman Beets... ...The great and beautiful Beet last described may be vsed in winter for a salad herbe, with vinegar, oyle, and salt, and is not onely pleasant to the taste, but also delightfull to the eye. The greater red Beet or Roman Beet, boyled and eaten with oyle, vineger and pepper, is a most excellent and delicate sallad: but what might be made of the red and beautifull root (which is to be preferred before the leaues, as well in beauty as in goodnesse) I refer vnto the curious and cunning cooke, who no doubt when he hath had the view thereof, and is assured that it is both good and wholesome, will make thereof many and diuers dishes, both faire and good." In other words, in England, they were well acquainted with using the beet greens as pot herbs or salad, but the variety with the big red root was fairly new, & not yet well known by cooks. Hence the need to assure them that it is good & wholesome to eat. By the time Robert May wrote his CB, the red beet root had been accepted. Cindy Renfrow/Sincgiefu cindy at thousandeggs.com Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:05:20 -0500 From: "Decker, Terry D." Subject: RE: SC - Period Beet Recipes (was: summer feast) > hey all from Anne-Marie > isnt there a German medieval recipe for beets ("ein condimente" comes to > mind)? George Fugger's recipe for smoked tongue found in Sabina Welserin uses red beet root as part of the pickling process, before smoking the tongue. So it wouldn't surprise me to find it used in other late German recipes. Bear Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 17:15:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Huette von Ahrens Subject: SC - Period Beet Recipe & period quote about beets - --- LrdRas at aol.com wrote: > stefan at texas.net writes: > << Is there any particular reason you think this is > to be done with beet roots instead of beet leaves? >> > > This is the same question I asked myself. So off to the kitchen I went. The > resulting product is definitely more tasty using greens instead of beetroot. > This doesn't mean that greens were used but it does mean that my version of > this recipe will specify the greens. :-) > > Ras However, here is Madge Lorwin's version of this recipe, from Dining With William Shakespeare, pg. 238-239. I have made this recipe many times and have had lots of good comments from both SCA friends and from my mundane family. 1 lb. fresh yound beets 2 tbsp. brown sugar 1 tsp. grated bread crumbs 3/4 cup grated mild Cheddar cheese 1/4 cup currants, parboiled 1/4 tsp. cinnamon 1/4 tsp. ginger 3 egg yolks 4 tbsp. butter melted. Peel the beets--this is best done with a potato peeler--and grate them into a mixing bowl. Add the sugar and stir until it melts. Mix in the bread crumbs, grated cheese, currants, spices, and egg yolks. Then stir in melted butter. [Using your favorite pie crust recipe] spread the filling evenly [over bottom pie crust] and cover it with the top crust. Seal the edges with the tines of a wet fork and trim off the surplus pastry. Punch fork holes in the crust and brush it with egg white. Bake at 450 degrees for twenty min., then lower the heat to 350 degrees and bake 25 min. longer. Serve slightly warm. I eliminated the pastry recipe, due to time constraints. Ms. Lorwin goes on to quote John Gerard in his "Herball" [1597] which talks about eating both the greens and the beet root. However, John Gerard says this, "But what might be made of the red and beautiful root (which is prefered before the leaves, as well in beautie as in goodnesse) I refer unto the curious and cunning cooke, who no doubt when hee had the view there, and is assured that it is both good and wholesome, will make thereof many and divers dishes, both faire and good." This, to my mind, kind of tells me, as it did to Ms. Lorwin, that the beet root was prefered. Huette Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 06:18:05 -0700 From: varmstro at zipcon.net (Valoise Armstrong) Subject: Re: SC - Period Beet Recipes (was: summer feast) >hey all from Anne-Marie >isnt there a German medieval recipe for beets ("ein condimente" comes to >mind)? > >Oh, German Girl, are you listening? :) Well, here's one German Girl replying for another . Gwen-Kat has her translation and redaction from Rumpolt for pickled beets on her web page. Here it is. Valoise ******* From Marx Rumpolt, Ein New Kochbuch, the chapter on accompaniments to fried meat 3.Rote Ruben eyngemacht mit klein geschnittenen Merrettich/ Aniss/ Coriander/ und ein wenig Kuemel/ sonderlich wenn die Ruben geschnitten/ gesotten mit halb Wein und halb Essig. My translation: Red beets preserved with small cut horseradish/ anise/ coriander/ and a little caraway/ special if the beets are cut/ marinated in half wine and half vinegar. My version: 3 cans (16 oz) small whole beets, cut into chunks 1 cup wine 1 cup vinegar 1 1/2' long piece of fresh horseradish root, peeled and cut into slivers 1/2 t anise seed 1 t coriander seed 1/2 t caraway seed Combine all ingredients except beets in a pot. Bring to a boil, simmer 5 minutes, add the beets and heat through. Place in jar or crock and let mellow for at least 24 hours. The vinegar will preserve your beets; in period they would have been stored in the cellar. In modern times I would suggest the fridge or canning in a sterilized container. Comments: I used canned beets for the convenience and lower cost. This recipe was very well received, it will become part of my regular repertoire. Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 13:42:47 EDT From: ChannonM at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - Period Beet Recipes (was: summer feast) varmstro at zipcon.net writes: << In modern times I would suggest the fridge or canning in a sterilized container. >> This is an excellent example of a "cannable" recipe. Start with fresh beets, boil in water until the skin begins to peel back a little. You can test this by taking one out (use a hotmit ) and just rub the beet with your thumb, if it's ready the skin will just give way. Cut off the hard stem bump and if small enough just set it aside if the beets are larger than 2" I suggest quatering them or slicing even (up to cook, but be careful not to overdo the step with the liquid and spices, you may have beet mush if the pieces are too small). Make your liquid ingredient, add beets to it bring to a boil. Spoon beets into sterilized jars, pour juice over and seal. The seals will pop down to show the escape of air and the seal being complete, often this is a loud pop and has been known to scare people who weren't expecting it, sometimes you don't even notice. Always use sterilized lids and new seals. They will most likely keep 2 years. If any colour changes occur, any mold, if the seal pops or is not flat discard the contents in the garbage, do not throw into the toilet or down the sink. I have chosen to toss the whole jar as a precaution. I was taught by my grandmother to dig up a section of your back yard to dispose of "bad" can's but feel this may jeopardize animals or ground water. Hauviette Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 14:18:18 -0400 From: Philip & Susan Troy Subject: Re: SC - Period Beet Recipe & period quote about beets Huette von Ahrens wrote: > --- LrdRas at aol.com wrote: > > ahrenshav at yahoo.com writes: > > << This, to my mind, kind of tells me, as it did to Ms. Lorwin, that the > > beet root was prefered. > > > > Huette >> > > > > Possibly. It merely tells me that Gerard himself was partial to beetroots. I'm with Ras on this one. Lorwin quotes Gerard as saying (caps are mine, for emphasis), "But what might be made of the red and beautiful root (which is to be preferred before the leaves, as well in beautie as in goodnesse) I refer unto the CURIOUS and cunning cooke, WHO NO DOUBT WHEN HE HAD THE VIEW THERE, AND IS ASSURED THAT IT IS BOTH GOOD AND WHOLESOME, will make thereof many and divers dishes, both faire and good." This kind of phrasing is right out of Schwabe's "Unmentionable Cuisine": through education and an open mind, people all over the world will begin to understand and fully utilize the delectable culinary possibilities of the garden slug. Or whatever. The implication seems to be that Gerard knows they're good, and is waiting for the adventurous and skilled cooks of the world to catch up to him. They seem, eventually, to have done so, but _perhaps_ not until after 1589. Adamantius Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 12:36:46 EDT From: ChannonM at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - Period Beet Recipes (was: summer feast) WOLFMOMSCA at aol.com writes: << bitter back-bite of the canned beets >> I find this is true using beets canned in aluminum. If you can get your hands on glass canned beets you might have a winner. Or you could can them yourself and have them at other times of the year! :) Hauviette Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 14:39:47 -0400 From: "Nick Sasso" Subject: Re: SC - Period Beet Recipes (was: summer feast) In a message dated 10/19/99, Hauviette writes: <<>> The seals will pop down to show the escape of air and the seal being complete, often this is a loud pop and has been known to scare people who weren't expecting it, sometimes you don't even notice. Always use sterilized lids and new seals. They will most likely keep 2 years. If any colour changes occur, any mold, if the seal pops or is not flat discard the contents in the garbage, do not throw into the toilet or down the sink. I have chosen to toss the whole jar as a precaution. I was taught by my grandmother to dig up a section of your back yard to dispose of "bad" can's but feel this may jeopardize animals or ground water. Greetings and many thanks for sharing the beet preservation techniques here. I just wanted to add two things for your and anyone else's use: 1) The pop is from the hot air cooling and contracting, creating a vacuum to pull the dome lid down. If air ran in, it would add spoiling agents to the yummies inside. The 'whoosh' you here when you open the canned food is the rush of air inside to fill the now vacuum sealed jar. 2) I'm thinking that spoiled food put in the yard will not harm water and our fauna so much as you might first think. 'Food' rots all the time in the environs and makes nutrients for other species like muchrooms and plants 9agter becoming humous. . not hummus). Also, those bacteria harmful to our digestiuve tract are not always so to other critters who may happen upon your discarded stash. Dump the food and let nature take it's course as long as you are using ingredients relatively close to their original state, e.g. no preservative chemicals or things like dioxins. niccolo difrancesco Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 19:36:24 EDT From: ChannonM at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - summer feast I'm sorry that I missed this email, I don't know how but I skipped it. The recipe is for beet roots and it originates from Apicius. Here is some background and the recipe; The recipe I chose to create is based on two recipes from Apicius: this is from Flower's & Rosenbaums edition. Book III Section II-4 Beetroot, another method, from Varro. Varro writes:" Take beetroot, rub clean and cook in mulsum with a little salt and oil, or boil in water and oil with salt; make a broth, and drink it. It is even better if a chicken has been cooked in it first." and Section XI-2 Boiled beets, another method- They are good served with a dressing of mustard, al little oil and vinegar. I chose to preserve the beets using a modern pickling method in order to take advantage of the early preparation and availability of fresh beets at a good price. To make the recipe without canning, simply leave out the last step. Some variation was used in the recipe presented, for example ; honey was used in place of mulsum in the preserving process. Honey is one of the chief ingredients in mulsum according to Flower & Rosenbaum. Adapted Recipe My recipe is based on the ingredients of the Apicius recipes and the pickling recipes that my grandmother used. 1 * lbs fresh beets 1 * cups white vinegar * cup water * cup honey 1 TB mustard seed Boil the beets until the skins begin to fall off. Rinse and remove skins. Chop into quarters or leave whole if small enough. Combine remaining ingredients and boil for 5 minutes. Add beets and heat through. In prepared canning jars spoon beets to shoulder of the jar, pour over juice to within * inch of lip and seal. Makes 2-3 pints Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 19:36:22 EDT From: ChannonM at aol.com Subject: SC - canning beets "If any colour changes occur, any mold, if the seal pops or is not flat discard the contents in the garbage" clarification:IF THE SEAL POPS UP, it indicates air going in and that's not good. If this happens prior to opening the jar, then I would discard it. Hauviette Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 17:18:30 -0700 From: varmstro at zipcon.net (Valoise Armstrong) Subject: Re: SC - Period Beet Recipes (was: summer feast) A couple of months ago I found a copy of Hildegard von Bingen's Naturkunde translated into modern German by Peter Riethe. He doesn't give the original, only his translations of her natural history work. I checked to see of there was an entry for beets and this is what I found (English translation is mine): De Ruba. Die Weiße Rübe ist mehr als kalt, liegt zwar etwas schwer im Magen, ist aber leicht verdaulich. Vor dem Genusse werde sie geschält; roh ist sie weniger zuträglich als gekocht. De Ruba. The white Beet is more than cold, lays somewhat hard in the stomach; it is however easy to digest. Before consumption it should be peeled; raw is less beneficial than cooked. This is 12th century stuff here. Until I read this I was convinced that until very late in period the leaves and not the roots were what was eaten. But peeling before eating sort of implies using the roots. Valoise Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 09:28:05 -0400 From: "Nick Sasso" Subject: Re: SC - Period Beet Recipes (was: summer feast) Remember that Hildegart was somewhat of a fringist in her time. Her practices were, by no means, universally accepted, though not exactly banished by the Church either. Her practices of singing sacred music, herbal/natural healing, reading gospels alound in public and some Sophiaistic teachings were all rather radical at the time. . . if not borderline 'heretical' or pagan. I suggest that her description of beets as foodstuff would not imply that beets were commonly eaten, but that they could be eaten in some fashion . . . similar to Master Adamantius' assertion about Gerard on beets in the herbal. Even that fact that a woman wrote about health (or anything for that matter) in the 12th century is radical and inspiring to women today. niccolo difrancesco Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 08:03:15 -0600 (MDT) From: grasse at mscd.edu (Martina Grasse) Subject: SC - Digest 1696 Sorry, have been on digest, and the last missive I sent never posted. I have webbed a pickled beet root recipe from Rumpolt. (the transliteration may not be totaly up to snuff (I have learned some things since writing this, but have not had the time to update and insert the characters I have been taught.) but the translation is accurate. The pickled beets are quite good, and yes I really did use that much horseradish... it adds a nice zip to things. http://clem.mscd.edu/~grasse/GK_ASsp99_beet.htm Gwen Catrin von Berlin Caerthe Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 02:51:38 +0100 From: Thomas Gloning Subject: SC - period beet recipes (?) I am not a native speaker of English, so translating and identifying plant names is quite dangerous for me. Anyway: Here are two recipes from the "Rheinfraenkisches Kochbuch" (about 1445), that might have something to do with beets. Both the leaves and the roots are used here. This in a somewhat simplified transcription: ||30|| Wiltu einen behenden guden kappus machen so grab mangolt usz mit den worczelen vnd wesche daz gar suberlich vnde sude isz ïn gesalczem wasser in eime kessel bisz daz isz genuch sij So czuge isz usz vnd lege isz von ein ander uff ein schone bret adir duch vnd lasz isz wol kalten So du yme die ubirhut abe vnd lege isz dan in eine geschiere vnd du senff eszig honig vnd saffran darczu so hastu einen guden kappusz ||31|| den selben kappus magistu auch machen mit suszem puluer vnd vigen da in sieden vnd win eszig vnd winber vnd mandelkerne dar uff strauwen vnd du magist auch mispelen beren vnd allerhande dar in dune beide ruben snydde vnd kappusz *** Lady Allison Poinvillars de Tours/Lyn Parkinson sent me an English translation of these two recipes several weeks ago. Cheers, Thomas Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 22:04:07 MST To: "Mark.S Harris (rsve60)" From: LYN M PARKINSON Subject: Re: Thomas' beets 30. Willst du ein wohlschmeckendes und gutes Kraut zubereiten, dann grabe Mangold samt den Wurzeln aus und reinige alles sauber, siede es in gesalzenem Wasser in einem Kessel, bis es genug gekocht hat. Dann ziehe die einzelnen Bl‰tter heraus und lege sie gesondert auf ein sauberes Brett oder Tuch und la? es vˆllig erkalten. Entferne ihm dann die ‰u?eren Bl‰tter und lege is dann in eine Sch¸ssel. Mache es mit Senf, Essig, Honig und Safran an, dann wird es ein wohlschmeckendes Kraut. If you wish to prepare a savory and good cabbage, then dig beets together with the roots and wash all clean, simmer it in salted water in a kettle, until it is cooked enough. Then take the individual leaves out and lay them separately on a clean board or cloth and let them cool completely. Remove from it the outer leaves and lay it then in a bowl. Make it with mustard, vinegar, honey and saffron, then it is a savory cabbage. 31. Dasselbe Kraut kannst du auch zubereiten, indem du es mit s¸?em Gew¸rzpulver und Feigen im Kochwasser siedest. Gib danach Weinessig hinzu und streue Rosinen und Mandelkerne dar¸ber. Du kannst auch Mispeln, Birnen und allerlei andere Zutaten mit hinein tun und nicht nur das Mangold-Kraut, sondern auch Schnitze von der Runkelr¸be verwenden (von welcher Mangold der Blatt-Teil ist). The same cabbage you can also prepare, when you cook it with sweet herb powder and figs in simmering water. Add wine vinegar to it and strew raisins and almond kernels over it. You can also use medlars, pears, and all other similar ingredients with it and not only the beet greens, separate also slices of the beet root (from which beet the leaf is). In number 30, I believe only the beet leaves are used, whereas both root and leaf are used in #31. Allison allilyn at juno.com, Barony Marche of the Debatable Lands, Pittsburgh, PA Kingdom of Aethelmearc Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 03:52:14 GMT From: kerric at pobox.alaska.net (Kerri Canepa) Subject: Re: SC - Period Beet Recipes (was: summer feast) >The only recipe I've seen with beets (and even then it isn't clear if the root >or the leaves are used) is Hare in Wortys where the beets are part of the >sauce. And now that I've taken a closer look at it, I've changed my mind. I think the greens were used in the sauce as everything else in it includes greens and other plant matter. Worts, after all, do mean greens. Drat. I think I'm going to have to use a modern recipe (grit teeth) that simply prepares the beets. A modern Burgundian beet salad is just roasted, diced beets, wine vinegar, olive oil, and a bit of sugar. Mix the last three ingredients together, pour over the warm beets, and let marinate for an hour or so. Can't get much easier than that. Kerri Cedrin Etainnighean, OL Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 11:09:29 +0100From: Christina Nevin Subject: RE: SC - Another Chard Name The answer to the Latin name question from my father (Mr Green Thumb himself- - a trait I unfortunately didn't inherit);===================================Dear TinaSurely you knew that no matter what the colour of the stems of Silver Beet(Swiss Chard) its real name is :--Beta Vulgaris var CiclaBeet root on the other hand is :--Beta Vulgaris.5930 BEET - (RED STEMS) (Bie) [A]Beta vulgaris var cicla 1.2.3.Rhubarb Chard, Swiss Chard, or Silver Beet, is a member of the beet family andwithstands heat and droughts better than most other greens,The leaves are rich in vitamins and can be served raw, boiled or steamed.The leaf stems can be cut into Lengths and used as a substitute forAsparagus and also for Celery.Harvest by using the outer leaves and it will continue to produce.Adds some much needed colour to the vegetable patch, or is even worthyof a place in the flower garden. Approximately 55 days to maturity.5945 BEET - BRIGHT LIGHTS (Bie) [B]Beta vulgaris var cicla 1.2.3.Bright Lights, a vibrant new Swiss Chard - 1998 All American Winner.Distinguished by stems of many different colours, it is dazzlinglyattractive in all stages of growth.Vigorous and widely adopted, "Bright Lights" will be the star in any garden.The stems vary greatly in colour, the main colours are yellow gold, pinkand crimson with secondary colours including pink and white stripped,orange, scarlet, purple, white and green with intermediate pastels.Each colour is present in subtle variation.Maturity in 3-5 weeks, for young salad greens, 7-10 weeks for mature sizeplants.Note we suggest brief cooking, since the colour fades with lengthy cooking.Beginning in 1977 with the parent plants, a red one and a yellow one andafter crossing these to the standard green and white 5946 BEET - FIVE COLOUR MIX (Bie) [B]Beta vulgaris var cicla 1.2.3.An Australian developed mix of coloured Silver Beet or Chard in amixture of many colour variations from the basic red, yellow, orange,cream or white.Next you will want to know how to cook it. Try it sprinkled with celeryseeds===================================(paternal joke - I don't much care for silverbeet, but absolutely loathecelery)Al Vostro e al Servizio del SognoLucretzia++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++Lady Lucrezia-Isabella di Freccia | mka Tina NevinThamesreach Shire, The Isles, Drachenwald | London, UK Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 10:18:34 -0000 From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Nanna_R=F6gnvaldard=F3ttir?=" Subject: Re: SC - Nanna's Danish Cookbook Huette wrote: > If you >have any information about the eating of beetroots >during period, whether or not they were eaten, I >would love to see what you have. Thanks. Here is the recipe from the Koge Bog, with my translation. Røde Beder at indsalte. Først skal leggis i en Brendevijnspande 2. Tegelsteene paa Kanten / der paa lagt nogle stycker Træ / oc siden gufuis vand paa / dog saa at det icke naer træerne: Offuen paa samme træer skulle Bederne leggis / oc siden Hielmen paasæt. Leg der under en god ild / saa bederne aff jemen kunde kogis / dog icke forbløde. Naar de saa er sødne / reengiorde oc kolde / skulle de skæris vdi tønde skiffuer / der til Peberrod vdi smaa stycker (som hacket speck) oc skal aff fornæffnde skaarne Beder først et law vdi en ny glasseret Potte nedleggis: Derpaa strøes aff samme Peberrod / Danske Kommen / smaa støtte Peber /oc ringe salt: Siden leggis huert andet law Beder / oc huert andet fornæffnde Vrter strøes der offuer. Siden giffues offuer god Øledicke / eller helten Øledicke / oc helten Vijnedicke / saa megit Bedin kand betæcke. Siden leggis et Log offuer med et reent tyngsel / oc offuerbindis med et reent Klæde /oc hensættis paa en bequemme sted.Nogle faa Dage der effter kunde de brugis: Dog rør icke der i met bare Fingre. How to pickle beetrots. First take a distilling pan an place two bricks in it. Then arrange some wooden sticks on top of them and add water to the pan, but not so much that it reaches the sticks. Arrange the beetrots on top of the sticks and place the lid on top of the pan. Put on a good fire so the beetrots will be cooked in the steam, but without bleeding. When they are cooked, cleaned and cold, they should be cut into thin slices, and some horseradish should be cut into small pieces (as when lardons are chopped up). Take an new glazed jar and first place a layer of the aforementioned sliced beetrots in it; then sprinkle some horseradish, caraway, finely crushed pepper and a small amount of salt over this. Add more layers of beetrots and the aforementioned spices. Then good ale vinegar is poured over, or half ale vinegar, half wine vinegar, as much as needed to cover the beetrots. Then place a lid with a clean weight on top on the jar, tie a clean cloth over it and store in a convenient place. The beetrots can be used in a few days; but do not stir them with bare fingers. Nanna Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 07:52:11 EDT From: ChannonM at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - Nanna's Danish Cookbook-beets again? :) We had this discussion on the Apicius list, here are some exerpts, I apologize ahead for posting info from another list, but I thought this would be helpful. I posted my Roman beet recipe a while back, the Rosenbaum translation indicates roots used (yes this is at the latest 4thC but it is in period) Discussion; Q> For all of those who have used beets, which part of the vegetable do you > use. The book where I was able to find the original Latin and direct > translation along with the adaptation recipe suggested that maybe the > 'greens' were the main part used. Any ideas? A>>Anthimus (writing a bit later, in the 6th century, but fairly clearly in the same culinary tradition) includes beets in a list with mallows and leeks as "suitable both in summer and winter". The winter use strongly suggests roots, although that doesn't preclude the summer use as including greens. Heather Rose Jones Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 01:34:00 EDT From: LrdRas at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - Beets redux... Since this beet discussion has come up, I have been doing a little reading and have revised my opinion about whether beetroots were used in the MA's. I now think they were used BUT were still not all that commonly. Platina does mention beets as a root in the third chapter of De Honesta but the only recipe he has using beets is in the sixth chapter where it is included as am ingredient in 'Green Sauce.' That example clearly indicates the leaves and/or stems are meant by the term 'beta' since the use or the red beetroot would result in a brown sauce and not a green sauce. Other than the isolated case of the possible use of the root in the late period recipe for the tarts posted earlier this week, I found no tart recipes including beets as an ingredient that would suggest an interpretation of their use in tarts in a form other than greens. There are several isolated recipes which might be interpreted as the root but they were rare and in some cases very ambiguous. A phone call to a horticuluralist that I know is interested in historical horticulture offered the intriguing opinion that medieval beets were rounded at the top and then tapered to a point resembling an over sized squat carrot rather than the ball-like form we normally associate a beet with in the current middle ages. He has promised to try to find me the source of this info if he can. If he is accurate in his interpretation and you have garden space or access to a good green grocer, the variety Cylindra would be a good modern substitute for beetroots in period recipe when their use clearly indicated, IMO. Ras Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 10:32:35 -0000 From: nanna at idunn.is (Nanna Rognvaldardottir) Subject: Re: SC - re: chard, AGAIN Kylie wrote: >I recieved a copy of "The New Oxford Book of Food >Plants" last Friday (feel free everyone to tell me if this is known to be a >dodgy reference; I've not come across it before) and it has this to say: >SEAKALE-BEET or CHARD (Beta Vulgaris). This is very closely aligned to >spinach-beet and is used in the same way. It differs mainly in having a >broad, white leaf-stalk, up to several centimetres across, which is often >eaten as a seperate vegetable, while the green blade is used like spinach. >Some cultivars have reddish-purple leaf-stalks and blades. And I received a copy of Alan Davidson´s long awaited The Oxford Companion to Food just this morning (and shall be buried deep in it for weeks to come, it is simply immense, I´m just thankful it wasn´t published a few years earlier, or I would never have written my own book) - anyway, here is most of the chard entry. But no mention of silverbeet here either - that seems to be purely an Australian term. "Chard. Beta vulgaris ssp circla. Also called Swiss chard, leaf beet, seakale beet, white beet, and spinach beet. It is related to sugar beet, but it produces large leaves and fleshy stalks, rather than a bulbous root. Its leaves taste something like spinach, but are coarser. The stalks may be a pale celadon colour or vivid scarlet (rhubarb or ruby chard). The stalks and leaves are generally cooked separately in different ways. The history of chard has been tracked back to the famous hanging gardens of ancient Babylonia, and the vegetable evidently has a long history in the Arab world. From the Arabic name silq came the Spanish acelga. However, the name "chard" derives from the Latin and French words for thistle, although chard is not related to the thistle, and eventually came to mean the stalk or ribs of some vegetables such as chard or cardoon which is related to the thistle. By the 19th century seed catalogues were adding "Swiss" to the name. This was presumably to distinguish it from cardoon, but it is not clear why the term "Swiss" was chosen, although Jane Grigson (1978) evidently believed that the epithet originated in Dutch. Evelyn (1699) had not used it; he referred to the "Rib of the White Beet (by the French call´d the Chard)" with approval and made the interesting comment that it "melts, and eats like Marrow". The circla in the vegetable´s scientific name derives from sicula, which refers to Sicily, one of the places where chard first grew. Chard is popular around the Mediterranean especially in Provence and Nice, and in Catalonia, including the Balearic Islands, where the leaves are often prepared with pine nuts and raisins, a dish with Arabic origins." Nanna Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 13:09:33 -0000 From: nanna at idunn.is (Nanna Rognvaldardottir) Subject: Re: SC - Beets redux... Ras wrote: >A phone call to a >horticuluralist that I know is interested in historical horticulture offered >the intriguing opinion that medieval beets were rounded at the top and then >tapered to a point resembling an over sized squat carrot rather than the >ball-like form we normally associate a beet with in the current middle ages. >He has promised to try to find me the source of this info if he can. To quote Davidson´s Oxford Companion to Food again: "Red beet, known as Roman beet, and yellow-rooted varieties spread through Europe and Asia in succeeding centuries. In Europe a yellow kind developed into fodder beet. In Germany it was known as Mangoldwurzel (beet root), which was corrupted to Mangelwurzel (root for time of need) because it would only be eaten when nothing else was available. However, until well after medieval times, beet roots remained long and relatively thin. The first mention of a swollen root seems to have been in a botanical work of the 1550s and what is recognized as the prototype of the modern beetroot, the "Beta Roman" of Daleschamp, dates back only to 1587. In Britain the common beets were originally all light in colour. The red beet, when introduced in the 17th century, was described by Gerard (1633) with some enthusiasm ..." Nanna Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 21:57:19 EDT From: LrdRas at aol.com Subject: SC - Beets raghead at liripipe.com writes: << I have one off subject question: re the "white beets", are these a member of the beet family or some other vegetable? >> Beets come in many forms. Gold, burgundy, red/white striped, orange and white. There are also bulbless varieties such as Swiss Chard and varieties that have long roots like a carrot or radish. Some beets get grossly huge roots such as sugar beets and those grown to feed livestock. I would assume that white beets are meant or possibly Swiss chard. Ras Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 09:53:01 -0400 From: Elaine Koogler To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] beet juice dye (last) Jennifer Thompson wrote: > Anyone have any ideas on what to do with two cans worth of beets? Sans juice? > The baby and I ate them all last time, so we are beeted out and the hubby > won't touch them. > > Lann Shred them, add cheese, and other goodies and make Lombardy tarts. These things are so great that even folks who HATE beets like these. The recipe I use is a redaction from "Dining with William Shakespeare": Lumbardy Tarts 1 lb fresh young beets 2 tbsp. Brown sugar 1 tsp. grated bread crumbs 3/4 cup grated mild Cheddar cheese 1/4 cup currants, parboiled 1/4 tsp. cinnamon 1/4 tsp. ginger 3 egg yolks 4 tbsp. Butter, melted. Peel the beets and grate them into a mixing bowl. Add the sugar and stir until it melts. Mix in the bread crumbs, grated cheese, currants, spices and egg yolks. Then stir in the melted butter. Spread the filling evenly in the dish and cover it with the top crust. Seal the edges with the tines of a wet fork and trim off the surplus pastry. Punch fork holes in the crust and brush it with egg white. Bake at 450=B0 for 20 minutes, then lower the heat to 350=B0. Bake for 25 minutes longer. Serve slightly warm. It's actually best served warm, but I usually take several to Pennsic where we eat them cold, and they're still very good! Kiri Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 14:50:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Huette von Ahrens Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] beet juice dye (last) To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org I have made Lombardy tarts many times, but always using fresh beets, never cooked beets. I am wondering if cooked beets wouldn't be too mushy for this pie. Also, don't use cheddar cheese. Even mild cheddar cheese is too strong for the pie. Besides, cheddar isn't period. I usually use mozzarella, with very good results. Huette --- Elaine Koogler wrote: > Shred them, add cheese, and other goodies and make > Lombardy tarts. These things > are so great that even folks who HATE beets like > these. The recipe I use is a > redaction from "Dining with William Shakespeare": > > Lumbardy Tarts > > 1 lb fresh young beets > 2 tbsp. Brown sugar > 1 tsp. grated bread crumbs > 3/4 cup grated mild Cheddar cheese > 1/4 cup currants, parboiled > 1/4 tsp. cinnamon > 1/4 tsp. ginger > 3 egg yolks > 4 tbsp. Butter, melted. Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 09:46:18 -0400 From: Elaine Koogler To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] beet juice dye (last) Interesting. I've been using canned beets for many years, as well as cheddar cheese, and have had good success with both. I'll have to try it as you suggest and see what the differences are. I began using canned beets as the fresh were not available when I wanted to make the pies. Kiri Huette von Ahrens wrote: > I have made Lombardy tarts many times, but always > using fresh beets, never cooked beets. I am wondering > if cooked beets wouldn't be too mushy for this pie. > > Also, don't use cheddar cheese. Even mild cheddar > cheese is too strong for the pie. Besides, cheddar > isn't period. I usually use mozzarella, with very > good results. > > Huette From: Elaine Koogler To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] beet juice dye (last) Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 16:56:35 -0400 I suspect the trick may be that I drain them very thoroughly. And I don't think that they are quite as "mushy" as they'd be if they were cooked. Also, I don't try to grate them. I simply chop them fairly finely. Kiri (looking forward to trying the recipe with Mozzarella!!) Huette von Ahrens wrote: > It is good to know that canned beets are okay to use. > I am lucky to live in Los Angeles and we usually > always have fresh beets available, with grown here or > from foreign parts. Just not a cheap as canned beets. > > Huette From: "Olwen the Odd" To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] pickled beets? Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 15:15:57 +0000 >Ok, I keep coming across references to pickled beets in German sources. I >know that most SCA cooks believe that beet root was seldom eaten in >period. Have people tried pickling beet greens? What do they taste like? > >-- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa I make the pickled beets and occasionally toss in the greens if I can get nice fresh ones on the beets. They add to the colour as well as the texture so it is very attractive in the bowl. The greens are somewhat bitter, which I like, but not as bitey as mustard greens and not as tough as kale. Olwen Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:58:48 -0700 To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org From: lilinah at earthlink.net Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] pickled beets? Jadwiga Zajaczkowa wrote: >Ok, I keep coming across references to pickled beets in German sources. >I know that most SCA cooks believe that beet root was seldom eaten in >period. There are German recipes for beets and for pickled beets and since they are referred to as red roots i assume they actually ate the roots :-) I made pickled beets for the German feast at the Province of the Mists Boar Hunt 2001. The recipe and my redaction are on my website... http://witch.drak.net/lilinah/2001Menu.html but i guess i will post it here... Marinated Beets with horseradish Marx Rumpolt, Ein New Kochbuch, 1581 3. Rote Ruben eyngemacht mit klein geschnittenen Merrettich/ Aniss/ Coriander/ und ein wenig Kuemel/ sonderlich wenn die Ruben geschnitten/ gesotten mit halb Wein und halb Essig. 3. Rote Ruben: Red beets preserved with small cut horseradish/ anise/ coriander/ and a little caraway/ special if the beets are cut/ marinated in half wine and half vinegar. translation by M. Grasse at http://clem.mscd.edu/~grasse/GK_ASsp99_beet.htm makes about 1 gallon 10 large red beets, cut into medium-small chunks 2 cup red wine 2 cup red wine vinegar (white or cider will do) 1-1/2 feet of fresh horseradish root, peeled and cut into slivers 1-1/2 TB salt 1 tsp whole anise seed 1 tsp whole caraway seed 2 tsp whole coriander seed 1. Cut up beets. 2. Combine all ingredients except beets in a pot. Bring to a boil, then lower heat and simmer 5 minutes 3. Add the beets and heat through. 4. Place in jar or crock and let mellow for at least 24 hours, up to two weeks in a cook place. NOTE: The horseradish wasn't strong enough for me. Next time i will food process it. I also noticed a salad recipe in Rumpolt that included "rote ruben". I assume it uses the roots because it didn't mention the leaves and it does mention cooking them, but i suppose it could be the greens, too... http://staff-www.uni-marburg.de/~gloning/rump_sal.htm 7. Gruen Salat/ der klein vnnd jung ist/ rote Ruben klein geschnitten/ vnd darueber geworffen/ wenn der Salat angemacht ist/ vnnd die rote Ruben gesotten vnd kalt seyn. > Have people tried pickling beet greens? What do they taste like? Haven't done that. I like them "stir fried", though. Anahita Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 13:10:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Huette von Ahrens Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] pickled beets? To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org --- jenne at fiedlerfamily.net wrote: > Ok, I keep coming across references to pickled beets > in German sources. I > know that most SCA cooks believe that beet root was > seldom eaten in > period. Have people tried pickling beet greens? What > do they taste like? > > -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa No, that is not entirely true. Beet roots were seldom eaten before the 16th Century. By the 16th Century, there are quite a few recipes in the English and German cookbooks of that century and later that call for red beet roots. I have never tried pickling beet greens, but I suppose it would be similar to Sauerkraut. Have you found a recipe for pickled beet greens? Huette Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:05:19 -0400 To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org From: Philip & Susan Troy Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] pickled beets? I did this a month or so ago, in an extremely munitions-grade, quick-and-dirty method: commercial beet horseradish mixed with commercial pickled beets, drained and grated, with salt and the spices added. It turned out surprisingly good after a maceration period of about 8 hours (I bruised the seeds). And then there was the fun of trying (and failing) to prevent the other cooks from making beet-vinegar switchel for the unwary and thirsty... for some reason people kept thinking it was some kind of wine... Adamantius Also sprach Olwen the Odd: >>makes about 1 gallon >>10 large red beets, cut into medium-small chunks >>2 cup red wine >>2 cup red wine vinegar (white or cider will do) >>1-1/2 feet of fresh horseradish root, peeled and cut into slivers >>1-1/2 TB salt >>1 tsp whole anise seed >>1 tsp whole caraway seed >>2 tsp whole coriander seed >>NOTE: The horseradish wasn't strong enough for me. Next time i will >>food process it. > >>Anahita > >This is the recipe I use too although I use prepared horseradish which gave >it quite a nice bite. This is the recipe to which I was referring when I >mentioned I also added the greens on occasion. >Olwen Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 19:24:58 +0000 From: ekoogler1 at comcast.net Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Beets (was Eggplant) To: Cooks within the SCA I just found references to them in Apicius...there are several recipes for beets including one that uses them as part of a stuffing for a suckling pig. The index also references beetroot...but the listings are the same as for beet, so I have to assume that it's the red root veggie we all know and love. ;-) So, given that, I have to assume that it was at least known on the continent...in southern Europe. I found information about it in Platina, among the recipes. I don't know how well it was known in northern Europe. Kiri Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 19:26:27 +0000 From: ekoogler1 at comcast.net Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Beets (was Eggplant) To: Cooks within the SCA Just read the end of your message. The roots themelves are used...it would be kind of hard to grate leaves...I think directions for that would be to chop finely. No indication is given for the color of the beet but, as red is what is available to me, I use red. Kiri > I was browsing the Florilegium and found this on beets: > http://www.florilegium.org/files/FOOD-VEGETABLES/vegetables-msg.html >> Curiously the red beet with a bulbous >> root was new to Gerard; common beets were white or >> yellow and eaten as greens. (Even in the 16th, beets >> often were called by their French name.) >> Alysoun > > Were they just new to England, but known in France and > elsewhere, or a new variety? > > Do Lumdardy tarts use red beets or white/yellow beets? > It doesn't sound like it means to use the greens. > > Ranvaig Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 12:03:09 -0800 From: david friedman Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Beets (was Eggplant) To: Cooks within the SCA Message-ID: "I just checked the version in Madge Lorwin's book, and it also says to "chop the beets". I have always made the pie using the roots, as se indicates in her redaction. She bases hers on statements from Gerard's "Herbal". The first part, which she quotes, acknowledges the use of the leaves in salads, even giving a recipe for doing so. Then she quotes him as saying, "But what might be made f the red and beautiful root (which is to be preferred before the leaves, as well in beautie as in goodness) I refer unto the curious and cunning cooke, who no doubt when hee had the view there, and is assured that it is both good and wholesome, will makethereof many and divers dishes, both faire and good." Lorwin goes on to state, "And beets were used in mnay ways by cooks, including beet-root salads, both hot and cold."" I would take the quote from Gerard as implying that people aren't using the roots or not very much--it sounds as though he is saying that they should be. "... who no doubt when ... will make thereof." Gerard's Herbal was first published in 1597, with various later editions; do you know which version that passage first appeared in? Its in the 1633 edition--which at least suggests that eating the root was still uncommon then, although it might have just been left in through inertia. Checking some webbed extracts from the 1633 edition, we have: "Beta alba. White Beets. ...the white Bete is a cold and moist pot-herbe...Being eaten when it is boyled, it quickly descendeth... especially being taken with the broth wherein it is sodden..." Beta rubra, Beta rubra Romana. Red Beets, Red Roman Beets. ...The great and beautiful Beet last desribed may be vsed in winter for a salad herbe, with vinegar, oyle, and salt, and is not onely pleasant to the taste, but also delightfull to the eye. The greater red Beet or Roman Beet, boyled and eaten with oyle, vineger and pepper, is a most excellent nd delicate sallad: but what might be made of the red and beautifull root ... I take this to mean that white beets were used exclusively as beet greens, red beets primarily, and Gerard is urging that the root ought to be eaten. Is there any reason to assume the recipe is calling for red beets? It looks from Anne Wilson's comments as though they were a novelty in Elizabethan times--and she has a reference to Digby referring to beets where they are pretty clearly the greens. A web search turned up this--from the Floreligium: Take Beets, chop them small, and put to them grated bread and cheese, and mingle them wel in the chopping, take a few Corrans, and a dish of sweet Butter, & melt it then stir al these in the Butter, together with three yolks of Eggs, ynamon, ginger, and sugar, and make your Tart as large as you will, and fill it with the stuff, bake it and serve it in. --John Partridge, The good Huswifes Handmaide for the Kitchin That's from Dining with William Shakespeare, by Madge Lorwin. Partridg is 1594--i.e. a little before the earliest edition of Gerard. There is nothing there that implies the roots are being used--and if the red beets are new, and Gerard is trying to persuade people to use the roots forty years later, there should be if that' what is intended. The dangers of relying on secondary sources. -- David/Cariadoc Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 16:16:34 -0800 From: david friedman Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Beets and backfiles was Beets To: Cooks within the SCA >The 1658 edition of The French gardiner >instructing how to cultivate all sorts of >fruit-trees and herbs for the garden specifies--- >THE French Gardiner. > Section > SECT. IV. > ... SECT. IV.: Of Roots. / THe Red >Beet,[Roots. Parsenp.] or Roman Par|snep, as the >greatest, sha ... >THE French Gardiner. > Section > SECT. V. > ... CT. V.: Of all sorts of Pot-hearbs. / WE >will begin with the white Beet or Leeks as being >the greatest of all the Pot-hearbs, ... >... ore spent then of any of the >rest.[Beet-leeks] / The white Beet or Beet-Card >(for so some will call it in imitation of the >Picards, ... >... Spring, which will furnish you with Leeks >very early. / There is a Red Beet[red Beets.] if >you desire to have of them, for Curio ... >SECT. V. >... with Leeks very early. / There is a Red >Beet[red Beets.] if you desire to have of them, >for Curiosity rather ... >... a second dry|ing, lest it become musty; for >being of a spongy substance, as the Red Beets >are, it will continue a long time moyst. / > ... e a long time moyst. / There is another >sort of Beets, which is called Oracke,[Orache.] >very agree| ... > > >Evelyn helped translate this from the French by the way. > >The 1653 Pharmacop|ia Londinensis, or, The London dispensatory says >A CATALOGUE OF THE SIMPLES CONDUCING TO THE DISPENSATORY. > ROOTS. >* ... nd red; as for black Beets I have no|thing >to say, I doubt they are as rare as black Swans. >The red Beet root boyled and preserved in >Vinegar, makes a fine cool, pleasing, clensing, >digesting sawce. >The 1649 A physicall directory says the same. ... >It appears that both are mentioned at least in the 1600's. So far as the sources you give, the earliest cite that is clearly about eating the root is in 1649. There are references to red beet earlier than that--but it's clear from Gerard that it was used as a green too. Gerard, writing at the earliest in 1597 and perhaps in 1633, is trying to persuade cooks to try using the beet root. So I don't see how one can argue that ... >If a housewife in the 1590's encountered this recipe, my guess is that >she might use either depending upon local customs and produce available. So far as the evidence available to us is concerned, a housewife in the very late 1590's might perhaps have read Gerard and think of eating beet roots as an interesting idea. But she would take it for granted that a recipe which simply specified "beets" referred to the greens--because, in all the examples we have from that early, that's what it appears to mean. And this particular recipe is from several years before Gerard published. It isn't as if the root and the greens are close substitutes, so that one would naturally think of using one instead of the other. -- David/Cariadoc http://www.daviddfriedman.com/ Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 18:02:31 -0500 From: Johnna Holloway To: Cooks within the SCA Subject: [ca-cooks] Beets and backfiles was Beets According to OED---Beet was A plant or genus of plants (N.O. Chenopodiaceæ), having, in cultivation, a succulent root much used for food, and also for yielding sugar. There are two species, the Common or Red Beet (Beta vulgaris), found wild on the British coasts, and cultivated in several varieties, both as an esculent, and as an ornamental foliage plant, and the White Beet (B. cicla), chiefly used in the production of sugar. Formerly almost always spoken of in plural `beets,' like beans, pease, greens, etc. Now usu. in sing. form, but the pl. form is still current in the U.S. * C. 1000 Sax. Leehd. II. 226 Þás wyrta sindon.;éað beeatra, béte and mealwe; * 1398 Trevisa Barth. De P.R. xvii. xxii. (1495) 616 Men may graffe on a bete stocke as men doon on a Caustocke. * A. 1400 Cov. Myst. 22 Erbys and gresse, both beetes and rake. * C. 1440 Promp. Parv, 34 Betys herbe, beta. * 1551 Turner Herbal. (1568) F iij a, There are twoo kyndes of Betes, the white bete whyche is called sicula, and blake betes. ------------ Nancy suggested: Your best bet might be to loo at other receipts in that same cookbook, since if you see a list of "greens" (i.e. spinach, sorrel) and beets, my assumption is that the beet greens are meant. Sometimes the author will refer to "beetroots" specifically. But as "beets" are listed by theselves, I think they could be interpreted either way. Nancy Kiel I did a browse through the Stuart Press transcription of The Good Huswifes Handmaide and didn't find any other mention of beets. So--- the text is no help. So what do other texts say-- I dd some other searching-- and it is here that the full text version of EEBO is proving valuable for one can search under just "beet" or "beets" and find references such as this--- Estienne, Charles, 1504-ca. 1564. [The French original is 1560's.] Title: Mison rustique, or The countrey farme 1616 lists "beet" in four scattered places and "beets" under 30--- these include: CHAP. XVIII.: Of Beets and Blites, white and red.: _BEets,[Beets.] as well th ... ... CHAP. XVIII.: Of Beets and Blites, white andred.: _BEets,[Beets.] as well the vvhite as the blacke and red, vvhich is c ... ... : in respect whereof, I could aduise the gardiner not gather any seeds of the beets to sow, but such as the beet shall bring forth the third for of such see ... ... hal bring forth the third for of such seed there grow verie faire and goodly beets. / If you would make choyce of faire beets, chuse rather the white than either the ... ... for of such seed there grow verie faire and goodly beets. / If you would make choce of faire beets, chuse rather the white than either the lacke or red, as being the fair ... THE SECOND BOOKE OF THE COVNTRIE HOVSE. > OF GARDENS. > CHAP. XXIIII. • ... h: and for the taking away of the same, you must eat a raw Beane by and by after, orthe ribbe of a Beet rosted in ashes, or some Smallage or greene Parsley: or which is better, if you loue Garlicke, ... THE SEVENTH BOOKE OF THE COVNTRIE FARME. > Of Hawking. > CHAP. LVIII. • ... day alwaies betwixt, that is to say, one day, and not theother. Seeing to it, that you giue her a beet leafe, or some other, vpon the day that you shall giue her pure water to drinke. The same remed ... Evelyn, John, 1620-1706. Title: Kalendarium hortense, 1666 speaks of in March--- Thyme, &c. / Sow in the begnning Endive, Succory, Leeks, Radish, Beets, Chard-Beet, Scorzonera, Parsnips, Skirrets, Parsley, Sorrel, Bugloss, Borrage, Chervil, Sellery, Smalladge ... so one sees beets and Chard-beet. The 1658 edition of The French gardiner instructing how to cultvate all sorts of fruit-trees and herbs for the garden specifies--- THE French Gardiner. > Section > SECT. IV. ... SECT. IV.: Of Roots. / THe Red Beet,[Roots. Parsenp.] or Roman Par|snep, as the greatest, sha ... THE French Gardiner. > Section > SECT.V. ... CT. V.: Of all sorts of Pot-hearbs. / WE will begin with the white Beet or Leeks as being the greatest of all the Pot-hearbs, ... ... ore spent then of any of the rest.[Beet-leeks] / The white Beet or Beet-Card (for so some will call it in imittion of the Picards, ... ... Spring, which will furnish you with Leeks very early. / There is a Red Beet[red Beets.] if you desire to have of them, for Curio ... SECT. V. ... with Leeks very early. / There is a Red Beet[red Beets.] if you desire to have f them, for Curiosity rather ... ... a second dry|ing, lest it become musty; for being of a spongy substance, as the Red Beets are, it will continue a long time moyst. / ... e a long time moyst. / There is another sort of Beets, which is called Oracke[Orache.] very agree| ... Evelyn helped translate this from the French by the way. The 1653 Pharmacopœia Londinensis, or, The London dispensatory says A CATALOGUE OF THE SIMPLES CONDUCING TO THE DISPENSATORY. > ROOTS. • ... nd red; as for black Beets Ihave no|thing to say, I doubt they are as rare as black Swans. The red Beet root boyled and preserved in Vinegar, makes a fine cool, pleasing, clensing, digesting sawce. The 1649 A physicall directory says the same. Woolley, Hannah, fl. 1670. The quee-like closet; or, Rich cabinet of 1670 calls for beets in CLVI. A Friday Pie with out Fish or Flesh.: Wash a good quantity of green Beets, and pluck out the middle string, then chop them small; with two or three ripe Apples well rel ... and in CCXX. To mae boiled Sallads. ... n more Butter and a little Salt, so serve them to the Table, thus you may do Lettuce or Spinage, or Beets. / ... -------------------------- It appears that both are mentioned at least in the 1600's. What's interesting is that this same discussion went on back in the mid- late 1990's on the list and is set out in Stefan's files. I don't know that we will ever reach a definative answer now any more than people did then. If a housewife in the 1590's encountered this recipe, my guess is that she might use either depending upon local customs and produce available. I see this as being a great project for an A&S entry for someone--- take the recipe and make it in a variety of ways perhaps in 4 inch tarts with varying cheeses, using both the leaves or the roots. Johnnae llyn Lewis Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 18:28:55 -0800 (PST) From: Huette von Ahrens Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Beets (was Eggplant) To: Cooks within the SCA Here is what Alan Davidson says about "beetroot" in the Oxford Companion to Food: Beetroot, one of four useful forms of the verstile plant 'Beta vulgaris'. The two which provide vegetables for human consumption are the red, globular roots of the beetroot itself, and its leaves, and the stalks and leaves of chard. Mangelwurzel, treated with beetroot in this entry, is also cultivatd for its edible root, but used for animal fodder. The fourth form is sugar beet, whose roots are an important source of sugar. All these cultivated forms are descended from the sea beet, 'B. maritima', a wild seashore plant growing around the Mediterraean and Atlantic coasts of Europe and N. Africa. This has only a small root, but its leaves and stems are sometimes eaten. Early Greek writers such as Theophrastus referred to the cultivation of this plant. By about 300 BC, there were varieties with edble roots. Red beet, known as Roman beet, and yellow-rooted varieties spread through Europe and Asia in succeeding centuries. In Europe, a yellow kind developed into fodder beet. In Germany, it was known as Mangoldwurzel (beet root), which was corrupte to Mangelwurzel (root for time of need) because it would only be eaten when nothing else was available. However, until well after medieval times, beet roots remained long and relatively thin. The first mention of a swollen root seems to have been in a otanical work of the 1550s and what is recognized as the prototype of the modern beetroot, the 'Beta Roman' of Daleschamp, dates back only to 1587. In Britain the common beets were originally all light in colour. The red beet, when introduced in the 17t century, was described by Gerard (1633) with some enthusiasm ('a most excellent and delicate sallad'). It soon found its way into the recipe books. Evelyn (1699) declared that cold slices of boiled red beetroot (such as are still familiar to everyone i Britain) made 'a grateful winter Sallet', while adding that it was 'by French and Italians contriv'd into curious figures to adorn their Sallets". The anonymous but authoritative authors of 'Adam's Luxury and Eve's Cookery'(1744) gave two recipes, one fr frying red beets as a garnish for carp and other fish, and the other 'To make the Crimson Biscuit of red Beet-roots'. The scarlet colour of beetroot is due to the combination of a purple pigment, betacyanin, and a yellow one, betaxanthin. Yellow rootshave little of the former. The pigments are much more stable than most red plant colour, and are sometimes extracted and used as edible food colourings. A cultivated beetroot may be as small as an orange or as large as a grapefruit. Although red, globuar varieties are dominant, there are some with flattened tops, some with golden or even white flesh, and some shaped like thick carrots. Prolonged cooking makes the colour fade. When whole beets are boiled, the skin is left on to avoid damage to the cels and letting the colour leak out. Huette Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 17:01:51 -0800 From: david friedman Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Beets (was Eggplant) To: Cooks within the SCA Kiri asks: >So are you saying that the pie should be made with white beet roots, >red beet roots or white or red greens? I am saying that I think it should be made with beet greens--white more likely, red possible. As I read Gerard, using the root was a novel idea at the time, so although a cook might possibly have done it, a recipe that intended the root rather than the leaf would say so. Clearly Gerard regards use of the greens, both white and red, as a common practice. The red seem to be coming into England in the 16th century, so I don't know how common they were at the end of it. >I understand about the problems with secondary sources, but, at the >time, it was all I had. Not making excuses, mind you, but you go >with what you have. Of course. My point isn't that you never use secondary sources, just that you have to be aware of the risks of doing so. Moderns think of "beet" as primarily meaning the root, so are likely to bias their interpretation accordingly. >According to the bibliography, Ms. Lorwin used the 1597 edition of the herbal. Useful information. Then I think we can assume, absent further information, that the passage is in the 1597 edition. The fact that it was still in the 1633 edition suggests that using the beet root was still a somewhat novel idea then--on the other hand, it might just be a matter of not having bothered to change that particular passage for the new edition. >It is, I believe, reasonable to think that the red variety was >certainly known when Partridge wrote his recipe. Yes. >And, if that's the case, even though it may not have been a common >thing, if he meant to use the root, it may well have been that it >was the red beet...since, as you point out, the part of the white >that was most commonly used was the greens. But we don't have any evidence that he meant to use the root, do we? All he says is: "Take Beets, chop them small, and ..." That could be the greens as easily as the roots. Since we have no evidence he intended the roots we have no reason to assume that he meant red beets--although he could have. >I'm not trying to keep the discussion going, but rather to make sure >that the recipe I've used for years...and that folks here in >Atlantia know and love, is accurate. So far, I've not seen anything >that makes me think that the way I've been doing it is wrong...or >out of period. "Out of period" is tricky. My guess is that, by 1601, someone, somewhere in Europe, had cooked red beet roots--probably earlier than that. Gerard probably had--I wouldn't think he would recommend them without trying them. But the question isn't whether beet roots are period, it's whether Lumbard Tarts using beet roots is a period recipe. I think the answer to that question is "probably not." The recipe doesn't specify the root, the use of the root seems to be an unusual practice at that point, judging by Gerard's comment, so there is no reason to think the root is intended and some reason to think it isn't. I should add that I also think the Lorwin recipe is evidence that she is not a very reliable secondary source--although, to her credit, she did give the information on which she based her conclusion. She has chosen to interpret the recipe as a modern cook would--and supported that interpretation with evidence that, carefully read, has precisely the opposite implication. It would be interesting to know what the dates of her "And beets were used in many ways by cooks, including beet-root salads, both hot and cold" are. Does she say? If she actually has lots of recipes that are clearly beet-root and refer to it as "beet" and are as early as the 1590's, that would provide support for her position. On the other hand, if those turn out to be recipes from the second half of the 17th century, it would be a further reason to distrust her. And, despite the title of her book, I believe quite a lot of the recipes are from mid-17th century sources. -- David/Cariadoc http://www.daviddfriedman.com/ Date: Tu, 3 Feb 2004 10:49:22 -0800 From: david friedman Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Beets and backfiles was Beets To: Cooks within the SCA Huette writes: > david friedman > wrote: ... >>>> From Marx Rumpolt, 1581: >>> >>> 7. Green salad/ that is small and young/ red >>> beets cut small/ and tossed thereover/ when the >> salad is prepared/ and the red beets are >>> cooked and cooled. > > I am of two minds over this recipe. It does say > green salad. However, the last part talks about > cooking and cooling the beets, which I don't > think has to be done with the greens Why cook > something that doesn't need cooking? To me, > this indicates the root, which does need cooking. C. Anne Wilson says "The Romans grew beet, mallow and orache for the seek of their green leaves, which were boiled in pottages ... ." Le Menager has "Take your cress and parboil it with a handful of chopped beet leaves, and fry them in oil, " Al Baghdadi has cooked beet leaves in Adasiya. >>> 21. Take white beet (according to Hopf #378) >>> stems/ peel and poach then in water/ prepare >> it with oil/ vinegar and salt. > > Again, two minds. It says stems, but it also says to peel. Perhaps the inner stems taste better? I would take it that "stem" isn't quite the same thing as "greens"--it's just the rib part of the greens. >>> 29. Red bet salad/ when they are cooked/ so cut >>> them small/ long or diced/ season it with oil/ >>> vinegar and salt/ may make it sweet or sour. > > This is more clearly the beet root, IMHO. I think you would have to know how the word translated "diced" is used in other recipes. One could read that as "cut the leaves into long portions or chop them to dice sized pieces." >>> 39. Take sugar (sugar beet!)/ season it and >>> scrape it/ so they turn white/ poach then >>> in water/ and cool/ season it with vineer/ oil >>> and salt. You can also serve them raw/ if they >>> are clean and well peeled or scraped. > > To me, this indicates the root also. Again, I don't think you can tell. Does anyone know if sugar beet root is edible raw? >>> 3. Red beets presrved with small cut >>> horseradish/ anise/ coriander/ and a little >>> caraway/ special if the beets are cut/ marinated >>> in half wine and half vinegar. > > This is a very traditional German way of > preserving beet roots. In reading this, I see >the ancestor of the current modern German recipes > for serving beet roots. Certainly possible. -- David/Cariadoc Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 14:21:32 -0800 From: "Lorenz Wieland" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Beets and backfiles was Beets To: "Cooks within the CA" david friedman wrote: > Again, I don't think you can tell. Does anyone know if sugar beet > root is edible raw? It' edible raw, but not very appealing in either taste or texture. -Lorenz Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 17:29:14 -0500 From: "Barbara Benson" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Beets To: "Cooks within the SCA" I have a bit of a thought regarding this whole beet leaf/beet root discussion. But unfortunately I cannot quote exactly what I want. A couple of days ao I was at a friends house perusing her copy of The Domonstroi and there was information on beets. In the section on gardening where he is describing how to plant a garden he begins with building a wall and then planting beets all along the perimeter of the garden. He tells you to harvest the greens year round and give some of them to the poor. At the end of the section he tells you to dig the beet roots and pickle them along with your other veggies. If anyone has a copy of The Domonstroi handy lease check up on me and see if I remember correctly. If you are feeling rambunctious please post the pertinent info to the list. I believe that this implies that both the beet root and the beet leaves were eaten, but that (at least in Eastern Europe they would not have eaten the beet root until the end of the season when there were no more greens forthcoming. So there is the possibility that both interpretations of the recipe could be correct, but that the root would only be used if you were peparing the tart late in the season. During the production time of the year it would probably be the greens. --Serena da Riva Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 10:45:05 -0500 From: "Phlip" Subject: Fw: [spca-wascaerfrig] Alexy, please- was Fw: [Sca-cooks] Beets To: "SCA-Cooks" OK, Alexy has straightened up some information about beets, greens vs roots, in the Domestroi- see below. He's a Russian, in Moscow, with a great interest in SCA and historical cookery- I've cited him before. With any luck, we'll be bringing him to Pennsic ;-) One thing to keep in mind, though, is that the Domestroi is pretty late- past most of our period- also, that roots tend to be eaten much more in Northern areas than greens do. He does, however, include a transliteration of the words for the greens And the roots, so that in the Russian the two are quite distinct. Saint Phlip, CoDoLDS ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alexey Kiyaikin aka Posadnik" To: Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 10:28 AM Subject: Re: [spca-wascaerfrig] Alexy, please- was Fw: [Sca-cooks] Beets >> Any chance you could get access to a copy of the Domestroi in Russian, and >> check it for its comments on beets? We're having a long conversation on >> whether the beet root or the greens are referenced in various recipes, and a >> closer look at the Domestroi might be of some help. If you can't find >> a copy, we'll try to find you a copy. The Domostroy really means beet. ROOT. Only root. But the thing with "root-fruits" is that practically the edible part does not end at ground level. When (those time "when" started with first roots in June and ended in about september when all the roots were picked up so no need to economize) there was the need to use all the edible part of the plant (say, early beet was used in Borsch almost wholly), they added the stalk. Only the stalk, up to the point where the leaf starts. The stalk has the same taste as the root, and contains most of nutrition the root possesses. The "beet greens" was NEVER considered food, though they have nothing disgusting in taste. Just no special taste. Grass, that's all. Only Ukrainian Borsch with early beets requires Botva (greens) of beets added, though several times I met the reminder that only stalks are needed. My mom used the whole tops with leaves, no special taste. but we are still alive. :-) And when we look at other "root-fruits", we see a good example with turnips. The stalk also tastes like the root, I used to add it to stews, same thing - the down part tastes like the root, the upper part with leaves taste empty. Also, there's a very popular classical tale "A man and a Bear", in which the bear in spring demanded to give him a half of all crops. So, the man promised to give him the roots (i.e. the underground half), and sowed wheat. The following year the bear came again and said he was no fool, and would take tops that time. The man agreed and sowed beets, fooling the bear for another time. Ergo: beets is really roots only. Only in hungry years (but for Russia that meant about every second year or two years of the three) they could eat beet stalks along with the root. That does not apply to Borsch that traditionally required some tops along with the beet root. Though, other plants, having same edible parts (radish and turnip stalks are recommended for spring salads in modern cookbooks), were never used in traditional food other than "hungry year dishes" along with nettle, goose-foot, etc. As Domostroy never considered a poor family, it could not in the least mean beet "greens". >>> So far as Domostroi is concerned, the passage doesn't specify beet >>> root. The relevant bit is "Pickle cabbages, beets, and cucumbers in >>> the fall." Cabbages are greens, so although it's certainly possible >>> that what are being pickled are the roots of the beets, It could also >>> be the last of the greens. The Ukrainian dish - pickled beetROOTS - requires having beet roots, not greens. This is traditionally the source of beet for Borsch, as many cookbooks mention. If the beet is pickled, no vinegar to save the red colour of the soup is needed. Only the roots are pickled. I read several recipes, they were the same for at least the last several centuries. >>> On the other hand, the text refers several times to "beet greens" but >>> speaks of pickling beets. That might be a deliberate difference--it >>> would be interesting to have someone who reads Russian check the >>> original. When the text speaks of greens, it speaks about greens. Botva, in Russian. When the text means beetroot, it says beets, Svekla. All the time they mean something other than the root, they directly say it, and never mean tops using the general word "beet". Though, I'll bring my copy of Domostroy to the computer while working and answering my mail tomorrow, so you will have some citing from a Russian edition. Bye, Alex. Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 12:4:29 -0500 From: Johnna Holloway Subject: [Sca-cooks] More on Beets and Beet Roots To: Cooks within the SCA More on Beets and Beet Roots From Johnnae llyn Lewis As promised here is more material on the topic of beets and beetroots. This has taken longer than expected but has proven rather interesting. I will not make reference to the material already contained in the Florilegium files on beets and what Gerald said about them in his editions of his Herbal as well as what others have said in the past few years on various lists. See the file http://www.florilegium.org/files/FOOD-VEGETABLES/beets-msg.rtf. The question I set out to answer would be references to eating the roots of beets prior to the publication of The Good Huswifes Handmaide for the Kitchen and its recipe for "Lumbardy tartes." There were also questions raised as to the colos of the beets being raised at that time. It should be noted that while there are earlier English recipes for such foods as 'leche lombard,' 'Lombard stew,' 'Crustard Lombard,' and 'Fritters Lombard', I have not found an earlier English version of the "lubardy tartes" recipe as given in the GHwHm. It also does not appear in any of the editions of Partridge that I have examined. Beets are not mentioned in a number of the more common dietaries, so I turned to a selection of the herbals, husbandry, and gardening books to see what can be learned. It took a great deal of time to both identify possible items to examine and once located to actually examine the works online. Many of these works lack indexes or tables which made the finding of relevant sections tie consuming. The actual downloading and adjustment of the images for reading was also very laborious. Earlier references than 1600 include- 1548 William Turner. The Names of Herbes in Greke, …..etc. from 1548. STC (2nd ed.) / 24359 Writes of beets: Bta Beta named in greeke Seution a Teution (the Greek is hard to decipher from the online copy) Is called in Englishe a Bete, in Duche Mangolt, in French poree, ou Jotte. It is called of Plenie and Theophrastus, Sicula. Betes growe in England, as farre a I knowe in gardines only. 1562 William Turner. The Seconde Part of Vuilliam Turners Herball (STC (2nd ed.) /24366) includes illustrations for Beta Nigra and Beta Candida. He writes: "The brothe of the roote and leaves scoureth away scurse and scales ad nittes out of the head." He then continues to list a number of other things that this brothe does. Thomas Hill in the Mabey edition below gives the Greek as Sostion. This is an early and small work of William Turner and dates from before the first partof his 'Herbal' of 1551. Turner is credited as being the earliest of the English born botanists. A religious Noncomformist, his books were banned and often burned during the reigns of both Henry VIII and Mary I. Part two of his 'Herbal' was published in 162 and part three in 1568, shortly before his death. A generation later in 1574 one finds: Hill, Thomas. The Gardener's Labyrinth. 1577. 1652. [I own the hardcover edition edited with introduction by Richard Mabey and published by Oxford University Pres in 1987. Mabey used the 1652 edition which means that I had to go back to EEBO to read the earliest editions. I then read the hardcover edition to see about differences between the two. It was published at least six times in the first 75 years. It was alo not the first gardening book that Thomas Hill published. His A Most Briefe and Pleasaunte Treatyse came out in 1563 followed by The Profitable Art of Gardening in 1568.] The 1577 edition STC (2nd ed.) / 13485 is very hard to read due to print show throgh. The section on beets begins on page 13 of The Seconde Parte of The Gardener's Labyrinth. On page 15 Hill writes: "The roote of the Beete boyled in water, and" ; the rest of the paragraph is undecipherable. The 1578 edition STC (2nd ed.)/ 13486 reveal that the rest of the sentence above should read: three or foure droppes of the licoure dropped into eares doth remove the rage and pain of the'. He also mentions that "The juice of the rawe Beete, anointed on any bald place of the head, procureth the heae to growe, and killeth Lyse. The decoction of the leaves and rootes, doe also clense the head off Nittes and Dandrie." [Wouldn't the raw beet called for be the raw beet root?] In the OUP edition, Mabey notes in the glossary that red beetroot was just ariving in England from Italy at the time of Hill's original writings in the 1560's and 1570's. The white beetroot had been grown from Anglo-Saxon times. One thing that strikes one about Hill and his very complete and detailed account regarding the growing f beets is that he was very certain that they require 'much dung' when growing. The adage that "The Beet rosted in embers, taketh away the stinking smell and savour of Garlike eaten, if the same be eaten upon or after the Garlike, as the Greek Menander hah noted." is again repeated here. It's interesting to read who he thought commonly ate beets. He writes, "The Beete more often eaten at poor mens tables, ought to be bestowed in a moist fat earth, and sowen at any season…." Mabey's text is abridged, so hedoes not give recipes nor does he cite much medical lore regarding them. For that information, one must return to EEBO. One wonders would the poor have ever required recipes telling them how to cook their beetes or what parts to eat? Heresbach, Conrad Heesbach's [1496-1576.] original work entitled Rei rusticae libri quatuor was translated into English as: Foure bookes of husbandry, collected by M. Conradus Heresbachius, Nevvely Englished, and increased, by Barnabe Googe. It first appeared in London in 157 [ STC (2nd ed.) / 13196 In 1578 it again appeared as: Foure bookes of husbandry, ….Newely Englished, and increased, by Barnabe Googe, Esquire, At London : Printed [by John Kingston] for Iohn VVight, 1578. [STC (2nd ed.) / 13197] This edition was by a diferent printer and although some records indicate it was substantially longer at 893 pages, this is a misprint and the edition is still only 193 pages. Heresbach says that one should sowe beetes at the same time as spinnage. He calls them a "common countey hearbe" and says that "No Garden hearbe hath greater leaves, so that with due ordering, it growth like a yound tree. It is called Beta, because when it seedeth, it is (as Columella affirmeth) to the likenesse of the Greeke letter B. There bee two sorte of them, the white and the blacke…" Dodoens, Rembert, 1517-1585. [English edition of the Cruydenboeck.] A Nievv herball, or historie of plantes 1578. STC (2nd ed.), 6984 Later editions are: 1586, 1595, 1600. Dodoens was Flemish and never lived nor visted England, but his Cruydenboeck of 1554 was translated by Henry Lyte from the French edition and became one of the standard texts of the Elizabethan age. Dodoens continued work on the Cruydenboeck, according to Frank J. Anderson, and added and changed i in rather piecemeal fashion until it "eventually metamorphosed into the Pemptades" of 1583. (Although printed in English, the 1578 edition of Dodoens was actually printed in Antwerp. A number of the illustrations found in Dodoens, according to both Anderon and Eleanor Rohde, are adapted from or printed from the same woodblocks used to print the 1545 edition of Fuchs, so one finds similar illustrations when comparing editions of Fuchs and Dodoens.) On pp.549-551 the text of the 1578 English edition reads Of Beetes. Ch. V The Kindes. There be two sortes of Beetes, the white and red. Ind of the red sorte are two kindes, the one having leaves and roote lyke to the white Beete, the other hath a great thicke roote, and is a stranger amongst us. [the picturs then show and are labeled: Beta candida. White Beete Beta nigra. Redde Beete. On page 550: Beta nigra Romana. The Strange red Beete.] Dodoens/Lyte goes onto describe both the white and red beetes and then writes: The strange red Beete is like to thecommon red Beete, in leaves, stalkes, seede, proportion, & color, saving that his roote is much thicker, and shorter, very well like to a Rape or Turnep, but very redde within, and sweeter in tast then any of the other two sortes. The Place. They sowe th Beete in gardens amongst pot herbes. The strange redde Beete is to be founde planted in the gardens of herboristes. Dodoens/Lyte then includes much of the information that is given later by Langham, except he does state that "the rootes of Beetes put a suppositorie into the fundament" which makes that clearer. The section ends with: "The Common red Beete boyled with Lentils, and taken before meate, stoppeth the belly. The roote of the Romaine or strange red Beete, is boyled and eaten with oyle and vingar before other meates, and sometimes with pepper, as they use to eate the common Parsenep." So is this final instruction not a recipe? 1597 Langham, William. The garden of health…. 1597 STC (2nd ed.) / 15195 was previously mentioned by Mistress Huettewho cited the OED. Unfortunately, The OED entry saying "1579 Langham Gard. Health (1633) 66 Strake a little salt on a Beete roote, and put it into the fundament" under beet-root is wrong as Langham is 1597, not 1579 according to ESTC records. In any case n that work published in 1597, Under Beetes on pp. 66-67, Langham writes: 3. Seeth white Beetes in water, and wash running sores therewith. Put the juice of the roote into the nose to purge the head. 4. Roste the roote in the embers and eate it, to take way the smell of Garlicke, Onions, or Leekes. 6. Headache, megrim, swimming, put the juice of the barke of the roote into the nose… 7. Belly hounde, strake a little salt on a Beete roote, and put it into the fundament…. 8. Head ache of murre or reume, ut the juice of a greene roote with a tent into the nose, the white some being scommed off. 11. Use the hearbe but little inwardly, especially rawe, because it breedeth evill humors….18. The ashes of the roote with hony, restoreth haire, and keepeth the est from falling. 19. The roote of Black or red Beetes put into the nose, being first bruised, cleanseth the braine. 20. The broth of the roote and leaves skowyeth away skurse, skales and nits of the head, and swageth the paine of kived heeles, and it heleth freckles and spots, if they be first rubbed over with salt peter naturall, and so it helpeth the falling of haire, it helpeth running sores which spread abroade and waste by the fleshe as they goe. The 1600 edition of Estienne, Charles and Jean Liébalt. Maison rustique, or The countrie farme. Translated by Surflet, Richard, fl. 1600-1616. 1600. [Translation of: L'Agriculture et Maison Rustique. Charles Estienne: 1504-ca. 1564; Jean Liébault, ca. 1535-1596;. Richard Surflet, , fl. 1600-1616. on pages 24-225: reads: The eighteenth chapter. Of beetes and blites, white and red. Beetes, as well the white as the blacke and red, which called Bette & Iotte of the inhabitants of Tourraine, or Romane of the Picardes, are sowen not only in lent, but at all ties, especially after December until March, and in August, to the ende that there may always be in a readiness both olde and young, and for to gather seed which may indure good three yeeres. Otherwise the advice regarding them repeats the admonition to us dung, they take away garlick, etc. Other Non-English mentions: Leonhart Fuchs (1501-1566) New Kreuterbuch or The New Herbal of 1543. (Taschen's reprint is 2001) Colored plate CXX "Rotruben" depicts a red beet 'Beta vulgaris' vr. 'Rapa' complete with asubstantial red root. The given chapter is LXXVII. The combination of German and the typeface used in the volume make it difficult to transcribe and I will leave it to someone else to decipher the text here. (and I do mean decipher.) The digital version f Fuch's Botany of 1545 has been scanned by Richard Siderits, M.D. and is online at: http://www.med.yale.edu/library/historical/fuchs/ One must note that the 14th century Latin manuscript Tacuinum Sanitatus in Medicina includes beetroot. The edition of tis published as The Four Seasons of the House of Cerruti. [translation by Judith Spencer. NY: Facts On File, 1984] On page 102 the text reads: BEETROOT Blete . There are white, black, and red varieties. The red ones are much appreciated when thinly slice in salad, being first boiled in water or cooked under hot embers, thinly sliced, and dressed with oil, vinegar, and salt. The sweet white ones are the best. Their juice aufert furfures capiti, removes dandruff from the scalp and loosens the belly. With rgard to this last point, some recommend that the root be scraped with a knife, and covered with honey and a little salt, to be used as a suppository. The disadvantage of beetroot is that it hinders digestion, because of its moisture and laxative nature, ad it heats the blood. It is suited to the winter and to old people. The edition published as Herbarium. Natural Remedies from a Medieval Manuscript [Text by Pazzini and Pirani. NY: Rizzoli, 1980] uses the Casanatense illustrations and from "those descripions and from notes found in other late medieval herbaria" translates into English the following about beets: XXX Beet (Blete) Beet is both hot and dry in the first degree, the best roots being those that are sweet to the taste. Its juice removes scurf,but it should be eaten in moderation as it dries the blood. This defect is prevented by using vinegar and mustard. It's interesting to note that the illustration from the Taschenbucher edition titled Das Hausbuch der Cerruti. [Nach der Handschrift in derOssterreichischen Nationalbiobliothek, 1979.] seems to show clearly that both the leaves and roots of "blete" are being gathered and placed in the garden basket. This is a far better reproduction of the illustration than that depicted in the Spencer Four easons of the House of Cerruti. The Rizzoli edition from the variant manuscript appears to show only the leaves. It is worth noting that Mary Ella Milham's edition of Platina includes the old adage regarding garlic and beetroot. Given that Platina in prit dates from the 1470's, it seems the advice on beetroots and garlic was being circulated in even the earliest of printed texts. On page 185 of Book III, she translates Platina's advice "On Sharp Seasonings, and First on Garlic." "The more cloves garlic as, the sharper it is. It causes bad breath, like onions, leek, shallot and all bulbs. They say, however, that beet root roasted under coals and later eaten over garlic takes away its foul odor." Some sidelines to this search are interesting to note: Seaching in LoC revealed that there are hundreds of items on the thrip that eats the modern sugar beet, but very little on the history. There are modern journals on the growing… Biatas: the beet grower. One of the earliest books just on beets is: An account f the culture and use of the mangel wurzel, or root of scarcity which was written by the Abbe de Commerell in French. It was translated and published in London in 1787. Mangel wurzels are the beets that are generally fed to cattle, but they also serve to rovide a form of modern amusement. http://www.mangoldhurling.co.uk/html/rules.html lists the rules of mangold hurling which is a sport akin to pumpkin tossing. Tracing beets back to the Anglo-Saxon texts by using the MED, one finds them mentioned as earl as c1150 Hrl.HApul.(Hrl 6258B) 112.86/1: Nim þisse wyrte seaw, þat man persinacam & engle bete nemneð. (a1398) Trev. Barth.(Add 27944) 217a/b: Beta is a comune herbe of Gardyns..and þer of is double kynde, blak and white..me may graffe on a beete stok [ radicem] as me doþ on a caule stok For more about these works one might consult as I have: Rohde, Eleanor Sinclair. The Old English Herbals. 1922, 1989 and Frank J Anderson. The Illustrated History of the Herbals. 1977. Johnnae llyn Lewis 02/17/04 Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 13:03:23 -0800 From: david friedman Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] More on Beets and Beet Roots (P.S.) To: Cooks within the SCA I checked a second version of Tacuinum Sanitatus, the one published as "The Medieval Health Handbook" and containing pictures from a variety of different copies. It has a picture for beets which, like the one in "The Four Seasons of the House of Cerruti," is pretty clearly showing the greens being harvested. I should add that the book the picture is in is believed to be 14th c. Italian, based on a 13th c. (I think) translation of an Arabic original. -- David/Cariadoc http://www.daviddfriedman.com/ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 16:55:31 -0600 From: "Terry Decker" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] More on Beets and Beet Roots To: "Cooks within the SCA" > Master Cariadoc comments about some of the period quotes on beets: >>>>> >> There are white, black, and red varieties. The red ones are much >> appreciated when thinly sliced in salad, being first boiled in water >> or cooked under hot embers, thinly sliced, and dressed with oil, vinegar, >> and salt. The sweet white ones are the best. > > I think this could be a reference to either the leaves or the root, > although specifying the red ones, which other sources suggest have a > more edible root, at least suggests the latter. I'm more of the opinion that they are referring to the beet root. You might tear or chop beet leaf, but I doubt you "thinly slice" it. Swiss chard (Beta vulgaris cicla) is specifically grown for the leaf and has very little root. Interestingly Columella refers to black and white beets, but makes no mention of red. Modern taxonomy tends to B. vulgaris cicla for the chards, B. vulgaris rubra for the red roots and B. vulgaris vulgaris for the white or yellow roots. I haven't encountered black beets in the modern literature, but I may have missed them. Or, it is possible, Columella was referring to a dark red as black or to another plant entirely. I haven't read Columella closely, so I may be in error. > <<<< > Why do you say this could suggest the leaves? > I thought all the leaves would be green, but here they talk about the > red ones being much appreciated when slice in a salad. And earlier about white, black and red varieties. I admit they may be using the color of the roots to indicate which type of beet, while still using only the leaves, but how do you cook leaves under hot embers? On the otherhand, that is a pretty straight forward thing to do with roots. > > Would/do the leaves of the various leaves vary in sweetness? Or taste at all? Why specify sweet white ones, if you aren't eating the root? How would anyone know they were sweet if they weren't eating the root? > > Stefan Beet leaves tend to be a mixture of red and green, commonly green leaf sometimes with red edging and red stalk. In some cases the leaf takes on a reddish tint. Beet leaves are usually eaten raw, boiled or steamed. They are not cooked under embers, a method more suitable for roots or bulbs. Sugar beets are derived from white varietals, which suggest that the white beets are higher in sugar content. This may also apply to the leaves if the sap contains a higher concentration of sugars. Bear Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:43:14 -0400 From: Elaine Koogler Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Period or no? To: Cooks within the SCA Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius wrote: > Also sprach Elaine Koogler: > >> Then you need to try the Lomdardy Tarts from Dining with William >> Shakespeare (yes, I know that a lot of you think that it should be >> made with the greens rather than the root...we had this discussion >> some time ago). I have fed that to dyed-in-the-wool beet haters who >> tried it because I said it was good (kinda scarey, isn't it??). They >> loved it!! >> >> Take Beets, chop them small, and put to them grated bread and cheese, >> and mingle them wel in the chopping, take a few Corrans, and a dish >> of sweet Butter, & melt it then stir al these in the Butter, together >> with three yolks of Eggs, Synamon, ginger, and sugar, and make your >> Tart as large as you will, and fill it with the stuff, bake it and >> serve it in. > > Do you remember, in the short form ;-), what it is that makes the > author of "Dining With William Shakespeare' believe beet roots are > what the recipe calls for? Is there some reason other than the > assumption moderns tend to make, and the fact that the author made it > work that way, so the question just sort of never came up? > > I'm not dissing the author of the idea (I have that book here > someplace; when I win the lottery I'll hire someone to catalogue my > library), I'm just wondering if it was the result of a conscious > decision or just a default that may or may not be justified -- to me, > the big reason for thinking it would be greens is the lack of > pre-cooking, or at least no specific mention of it. You can get away > with that using the tender parts of the greens; but I imagine the > roots would need to be pre-cooked: even with the breadcrumbs providing > some stabilizing effect, that's going to be a long time to cook eggs. > > FWIW, most of the beet-haters of my acquaintance are also won over by > the non-period but fun concept of beet frites, which are just raw > beets peeled, julienned in a mandoline, dusted in a little cornstarch > to dry their surface, and deep-fried like potatoes. A lurid pink they > become, too... we were always afraid to take the next logical step and > make beteraves gaufrettes a la mandoline... > > Adamantius She states that beets came to Britain with the Romans, who first developed the red beet. She references a statement from Gerard's Herbal to the effect that the leaves made a good sallat when boiled and eaten with oil, vinegar and pepper. According to Lorwin, she then continues with information from Gerard, wherein he asks what could be done with the "red and beautiful root (which is to be preferred before the leaves, as well in beautie as in goodness) I refer unto the curious and cunning cooke, who no doubt when hee had the view there, and is assured that it is both good and wholesome, will make thereof many and divers dishes, both faire and good. She goes on to state that beets were used in many ways bo cooks, including beet-root salads, both hot and cold. She also cites William Vaughan, who discusses white beets and says that they should be boiled, and a reference to eating beet root after leeks or garlic to take away their bad smells. All of this can be found on pp. 238 - 239 of /Dining with William Shakespeare. Hope this helps. What you mention about the fried beets is similar to what is often done with sweet potatoes...also the Terra Chips include beet chips, which, IMHO, are delicious! Kiri Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 20:52:43 -0400 From: "Phlip" Subject: [Sca-cooks] Pickled beets, et al. To: "SCA-Cooks" One of the recent recipes I "discovered" was the "agraz" in "Ein Buch von Guter Spise", Alia Atlas' translation. 35. Ein agraz (An agraz ) Nim holtze epfele und peterlin und bezzin. und stoz ez zu sammene und drücke uz. daz die petersilie ein wenic zuvar. daz heizzet auch agraz. Take wood apples and parsley and turnips and pound it together and press it out, that the parsley colors a little. That is also called Agraz. Upon discussion with Adamantius, he had said that he'd thought that the "turnips" was a mistranslation, and actually beetroot was meant. I wondered, because it said to color it with parsley, so I shredded raw beets, chopped apples, mixed them up, added cider vinegar (didn't have any verjuice at the time- an earlier recipe says, " 32*. Wilt du machen einen agraz (How you want to make an agraz) Nim wintriubele und stoz sur ephele. diz tu zu sammene. menge ez mit wine. und drüches uz. dise salse ist gut zu scheffinem braten und zu hüenren. und zu vischen. und heizzet agraz. Take grapes and pound sour apples. Add this together. Mix it with wine and squeeze it out. This sauce is good for roasting sheep and hens and fish and is called Agraz . (Agraz is a sour broth from immature fruit, often called verjuice.). " so I felt the addition of a sour substance like vinegar was appropriate, both for flavor and for liquid content). I then took parsley and chopped that, using it as a color contrast with the bright beets- tasted very, very good, and really brightened up that course. Can see at least forty-eleven variations that could be done, including using the turnips as Atlas specified, but I like it this way. Saint Phlip, CoD Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 16:13:51 -0500 From: "Terry Decker" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] swiss chard =/= beet greens? To: "Cooks within the SCA" Am Dienstag, 17. Mai 2005 22:20 schrieb Carole Smith: > Aren't the leaves of modern beets edible? "They say , however, that beet root toasted under coals and later eaten over garlic takes away its (garlic) foul odor." Platina, III.14 The beets with mustard from Apicius has been translated to mean both Beet root and beet greens. Bear Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 14:38:48 -0700 From: lilinah at earthlink.net Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] swiss chard =/= beet greens? To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Giano wrote: > Am Dienstag, 17. Mai 2005 22:20 schrieb Carole Smith: >> Aren't the leaves of modern beets edible? > > Well, I've eaten some and I'm still around. It's just not worth buying > beets for the leaves. {BG} That depends. While i do not dislike beets, i think their leaves are much tastier. It's often difficult to find a bunch that hasn't been topped (had the leaves cut off) in the US, though. >> I have been told by cooks I thought knowledgeable that the roots of the >> beet were not considered food in period, but that the leaves were. It >> hasn't been on my hot list to verify this one. > > I doubt it. I guess it is possible that Apicius means beet greens served with > mustard and vinegar, and that de Rontzier wants them pickled with anise, but > both seem to jive much better with the root. I think Apicius was probably going for the greens, but there's at least one recipe in Rumpolt that calls for "rote ruben", but he's quite late in "SCA-period". From what i can tell, leaves are generally what is called for in 14th and 15th century cookbooks. Marinated Beets with horseradish Marx Rumpolt, Ein New Kochbuch, 1581 3. Rote Ruben eyngemacht mit klein geschnittenen Merrettich/ Aniss/ Coriander/ und ein wenig Kuemel/ sonderlich wenn die Ruben geschnitten/ gesotten mit halb Wein und halb Essig 3. Red beets preserved with small cut horseradish/ anise/ coriander/ and a little caraway/ special if the beets are cut/ marinated in half wine and half vinegar. -- Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM) the persona formerly known as Anahita Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 00:46:50 -0400 From: Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise Subject: [Sca-cooks] another question... marinated beets To: Cooks within the SCA Using Rumpolt's marinated beets recipe, should it be ok to do these a week ahead of time? (Recipe below) 3. Rote Ruben eyngemacht mit klein geschnittenen Merrettich/ Aniss/ Coriander/ und ein wenig Kuemel/ sonderlich wenn die Ruben geschnitten/ gesotten mit halb Wein und halb Essig Pickled Beets - 3. Red beets preserved with small cut horseradish/ anise/ coriander/ and a little caraway/ especially if the beets are cut/ marinated in half wine and half vinegar. -- -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne at fiedlerfamily.net Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 23:08:21 +0200 From: Volker Bach Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] another question... marinated beets To: jenne at fiedlerfamily.net, Cooks within the SCA Am Samstag, 11. Juni 2005 06:46 schrieb Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise: > Using Rumpolt's marinated beets recipe, should it be ok to do these a > week ahead of time? (Recipe below) > > 3. Rote Ruben eyngemacht mit klein geschnittenen Merrettich/ Aniss/ > Coriander/ und ein wenig Kuemel/ sonderlich wenn die Ruben geschnitten/ > gesotten mit halb Wein und halb Essig > > Pickled Beets - 3. Red beets preserved with small cut > horseradish/ anise/ coriander/ and a little caraway/ especially if the > beets are cut/ marinated in half wine and half vinegar. Depends how thin you slice them. I made it last year and found it a bit disappointing on first trying, though it improved with age. From my experience: don't overdo the anise, and add salt. It really needs salt. I would also recommend a strong vinegar, especially if you're only resting it for a week. Giano Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 14:22:41 -0700 From: lilinah at earthlink.net Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] another question... marinated beets To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Jadwiga wrote: > Using Rumpolt's marinated beets recipe, should it be ok to do these a > week ahead of time? (Recipe below) > > 3. Rote Ruben eyngemacht mit klein geschnittenen Merrettich/ Aniss/ > Coriander/ und ein wenig Kuemel/ sonderlich wenn die Ruben geschnitten/ > gesotten mit halb Wein und halb Essig > > Pickled Beets - 3. Red beets preserved with small cut > horseradish/ anise/ coriander/ and a little caraway/ especially if the > beets are cut/ marinated in half wine and half vinegar. I'd think so, as long as they are kept covered and cold. I made them about 3 or 4 days before the feast at which i served them. Since the horseradish mellows over time, you might want to add some more on the day of serving, depending how zingy you like them. -- Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM) the persona formerly known as Anahita Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 23:57:39 -0400 From: Johnna Holloway Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Lombardy Tarts was Speaking of beets... To: hlaislinn at earthlink.net, Cooks within the SCA For the sake of completeness, I should add that the "*Lumdardy Tartes* (John Partridge, _The good Huswife's Handmaide for the Kitchin_, 1594)" as given in a posting on beets on 9/4/2006 10:41 PM is incorrectly cited. John Partridge is not the author of title: A Good Huswife's Handmaide for the Kitchin. The author is not cited in the text so it should be properly catalogued as by Anonymous. The Running title reads: A new booke of cookerie. The STC is 3298. The Bodleian Library's copy was filmed twice and appears in the UMI collection of microfilms and online through EEBO. John Partridge is the credited author of other Elizabethan cookbooks, but his name doesn't appear in this one. Johnnae llyn Lewis Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 01:37:08 -0700 From: lilinah at earthlink.net Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Speaking of beets... To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Stephanie Ross wrote: > I was thinking of beets and Lombardy tarts today in the shower. I have made > Lombardy tarts with beet roots and thought they were great! However, I > can't recall another beet tart/pie recipe that specifies it is made with > beet roots, even in Russian cuisine. Marx Rumpolt, 1581 30. Nimb Ruben/ die gebraten seyn/ hack sie/ vnnd mach sie mit Butter an/ vnd versaltz es nicht/ so ist es ein gute Fu:ell in ein Turten. 30. Take roots (beets/turnips/carrots...)/ that have been fried/ chop them/ and prepare them with butter/ and do not oversalt them/ so it is a good filling for Turten. Granted, the original does not specify which roots to use, but other recipes in this cookbook call for "rot ruben" = "red root" which is beet root, so i figure beets could be used in this dish. -- Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM) the persona formerly known as Anahita Edited by Mark S. Harris beets-msg Page 14 of 54