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Harris;}} {\*\rsidtbl \rsid278738\rsid656717\rsid14174015}{\info{\title beets-msg}{\subject Period beets and beet greens.}{\author Edited by Mark S. Harris}{\keywords medieval, beet green, beet root, period, borsch, red}{\operator Mark S. Harris} {\creatim\yr2009\mo7\dy19\hr2\min42}{\revtim\yr2009\mo7\dy19\hr2\min42}{\version2}{\edmins1}{\nofpages54}{\nofwords19091}{\nofchars108819}{\nofcharsws133637}{\vern25227}{\*\saveprevpict}{\*\password 00000000}} \paperw12240\paperh15840\margl1800\margr1800\margt1440\margb1440\gutter0\ltrsect \ftnbj\aenddoc\donotembedsysfont0\donotembedlingdata1\grfdocevents0\validatexml0\showplaceholdtext0\ignoremixedcontent0\saveinvalidxml0\showxmlerrors0\noxlattoyen\expshrtn\noultrlspc\dntblnsbdb\nospaceforul\hyphcaps0\formshade\horzdoc\dgmargin\dghspace120 \dgvspace120\dghorigin1800\dgvorigin1440\dghshow0\dgvshow3\jcompress\viewkind4\viewscale125\nolnhtadjtbl\rsidroot656717\newtblstyruls\nogrowautofit \fet0{\*\wgrffmtfilter 3f01}\ltrpar \sectd \ltrsect\linex0\endnhere\titlepg\sectdefaultcl\sftnbj {\footerr \ltrpar \pard\plain \ltrpar\s16\ql \li0\ri0\widctlpar\tqc\tx5040\tqr\tx8640\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin0\lin0\itap0 \rtlch\fcs1 \af4\afs24 \ltrch\fcs0 \f4\fs24\lang1033\langfe1033\cgrid\langnp1033\langfenp1033 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\fs20\insrsid656717 Edited by Mark S. 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Recipes. \par \par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af6\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\fs20\insrsid14174015\charrsid14174015 NOTE: See also the files: vegetables-msg, greens-msg, sugar-msg, root-veg-msg, salads-msg, cabbages-msg, root-veg-msg.}{\rtlch\fcs1 \af6\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\fs20\insrsid14174015 \par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af6\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\fs20\insrsid656717\charrsid14174015 \par }\pard \ltrpar\qj \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\fs20\insrsid656717 ************************************************************************ \par }\pard \ltrpar\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\fs20\insrsid656717 NOTICE - \par \par This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. \par \par }\pard\plain \ltrpar\s19\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0 \rtlch\fcs1 \af6\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\fs20\lang1033\langfe1033\cgrid\langnp1033\langfenp1033 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6 \ltrch\fcs0 \insrsid656717 This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org \par }\pard\plain \ltrpar\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0 \rtlch\fcs1 \af4\afs24 \ltrch\fcs0 \f4\fs24\lang1033\langfe1033\cgrid\langnp1033\langfenp1033 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\fs20\insrsid656717 \par I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. \par \par The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. \par \par Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). \par \par Thank you, \par Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous \par Stefan at florilegium.org \par ************************************************************************ \par \par Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 10:31:59 -0400 (EDT) \par From: "Christina M. Krupp" \par Subject: SC - Re: Pickled egg recipes -- BEETS? \par \par I've been observing this flurry of pickled-egg recipes with interest. Most \par of the recipes offered recently include beet root or beet juice. \par \par My understanding is that beet greens were eaten in period, but the root of \par the period beet was an unremarkable thing. The glorious ruby root that we \par are all familiar with, and the sugar-beet root which is a different \par variant, were post-period developments. \par \par Beet juice makes an excellent food-coloring agent, giving shades of dark \par red that are unavailable from other natural sources. If beets were \par available in the Middle Ages, wouldn't we see beet juice listed among \par other medieval food colorings such as saunders, saffron, and parlsey \par juice? It seems notable in its absence. \par \par I am very fond of cooked beet-roots and I'd love to be able to use them at \par feasts with a clear conscience. Can anybody offer evidence of their use in \par medieval recipes? \par \par - -- Marieke \par \par \par Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 17:52:37 -0400 \par From: John and Barbara Enloe \par Subject: Re: SC - Re: Pickled egg recipes -- BEETS? \par \par I think that the sugar beet is actually period. There is a European Castle \par that I saw on A&E that was from the 1400's that has sugar beets as part of \par the Device of the owners, a baron something or other. I will try to find \par the particulars. \par \par Lord Jonathus Fitche d'Abercrombie \par \par \par Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 21:09:42 -0500 \par From: dangilsp at intrepid.net (Dan Gillespie) \par Subject: SC - beets \par \par Elizabeth wrote: "(Did people eat beetroot?). \par \par As far as I can tell, no. Every time I find a reference to beets, it seems \par to mean greens. Maybe beetroot got developed into something big enough to \par be useful after our period?" \par \par There is a mention of both white & red, or Roman beets, clearly as a root \par vegetable in the 1633 edition of Gerard's Herbal; he says they're boiled & \par eaten with oil, vinegar & pepper. I haven't had a chance to look at the \par earlier 1598 edition to see if this entry was included there as well. His \par description makes it sound like eating beet roots was not yet a strongly \par established practice at the time the information was published. They are \par likely very late period at best. \par Hope this helps, \par Antoine de Bayonne \par Dan Gillespie \par dangilsp at intrepid.net \par Dan_Gillespie at usgs.gov \par Martinsburg, West Virginia, USA \par \par \par Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 18:04:33 -0500 (EST) \par From: LrdRas at aol.com \par Subject: Re: SC - beets \par \par << There is a mention of both white & red, or Roman beets, clearly as a root \par vegetable in the 1633 edition of Gerard's Herbal; he says they're boiled & \par eaten with oil, vinegar & pepper. >> \par \par Does he SPECIFICALLY mention bulbs or roots? Swiss Chard is the much older \par form of beets dating back to pre-Roman times. It comes in a white stalked and \par a red stalked variety. And, surprisingly, bears the exact same scientific \par name as bulbous beets. \par \par I have always used chard when beets are called for in early recipes and was \par under the impression that these are what is meant by the word "betas". If the \par use of bulbous beets before 1500 can be documented as consumed by humans, it \par would be great. I would then have several redactions that I could rework and \par a source for another relatively inexpensive vegetable. \par \par Ras \par \par \par Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 18:52:28 EST \par From: melc2newton at juno.com (Michael P Newton) \par Subject: Re: SC - beets \par \par >Elizabeth wrote: "(Did people eat beetroot?). \par \par According to _Medieval English Gardens_ byn Teresa McLean (one of my \par current library books, you all need to check this one out - its got lots \par of stuff on who grew what for what reason. it is however a very bad spoon \par tease! ANYWAYS) In the chapter on the vegatable patch, McLean states that \par most vegatables were grown for the 'porray' pot and mostly the leaves \par were used. In fact, she states that root vegetables weren't grown unless \par its leaves were useful in the pot as well. The one root she claims was \par popular was the radish - all of the others were just to bland! \par Lady Beatrix \par (wondering now just how period borsht really is?) \par \par \par Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 11:51:56 -0500 (EST) \par From: DianaFiona at aol.com \par Subject: Re: SC - beets \par \par << \par Does he SPECIFICALLY mention bulbs or roots? Swiss Chard is the much older \par form of beets dating back to pre-Roman times. It comes in a white stalked and \par a red stalked variety. And, surprisingly, bears the exact same scientific \par name as bulbous beets. \par >> \par Yes, he does! Both red roots and perhaps white, but the quote that you \par were replying to seems to refer to the leaves to me, since after suggesting \par serving the boiled red beets with oil, vinegar, and pepper as a salad, he \par says: \par "....but what might be made of the red and beautifull root (which is to \par be preferred before the leaves, as well in beautie as in goodnesse) I refer \par unto the curious and cunning cooke, who no doubt when hee had the view \par thereof, and is assured that it is both good and wholesome, will make thereof \par many and divers dishes, both faire and good." \par \par He also says, if I understand him right, that this red variety was given \par to him from "beyond the seas" by a merchant, and that it grew for him in 1596 \par to a height of 8 cubits.(!!! Isn't a cubit about 18 inches? That's HUGE!) \par That it sounds like the red beets were not common in England at the time, \par although if we could discover where the seeds Gerard was given came from we \par could reasonably assume that they were used in that country. However, when \par discussing the white beets, he doesn't specifically say that the roots were \par eaten, but refers to them as "thicke, hard and great.", which sounds to me \par like they might be large enough to eat. So it might be possible that the \par *white* roots were consumed in England--they seemed to eat just about \par anything else that wasn't posionous! ;-) \par \par Ldy Diana, who also wants to find documentation for a veggie she really \par likes! \par \par \par Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 08:01:05 EDT \par From: Balano1 at aol.com \par Subject: Re: SC - beets & cabbage (= polish borsch) \par \par As far as I know, Borsch is Russian-Polish in nature. Quite yummy though! \par Have 2 recipes: \par \par Simple Borsch \par Wash, peel and coarsely grate 8 young beets. Simmer the beets in 4 cups water \par for 20 minutes or until they are tender. Stir in the juice of 1 lemon and add \par sugar, salt, and pepper to taste. Continue to cook for 5 minutes longer and \par either strain and remove the beets or process them in (for a more textured \par borsch). Chill and serve with a dollop od sour cream. \par \par Polish Borsch \par Simmer 2 quarts good beef bouillion with 1 large onion, chopped, for 2 hours. \par Strain the stock and remove any fat. Wash, chop and soak in hot water, 4 \par large dried mushrooms, add them to the hot soup and boil for 15 minutes. \par \par Toss 1 teaspoon sugar with 3 cups grated beets, 1 cup diced carrots, 1 \par teaspoon chopped parsley, and 2 cups shredded cabbage. Let stand until the \par sugar is dissolved. Add the mixture to the soup and continue to cook for 15 \par to 20 minutes, until the vegetables are tender. Strain out (or process in) \par the vegetables and add 1 cup sour cream and 1 teaspoon lemon juice to the \par soup. Reheat without boiling and add salt if needed. Serve with a mealy, \par fresh boiled potato in each soup plate. \par \par - - Sister Mary Endoline \par \par \par Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 14:02:15 -0400 \par From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow) \par Subject: Re: SC - beets & cabbage \par \par Gerard (1633 ed. of the 1597 work) writes of beets in his Herball, pages \par 318-319: "Beta alba. White Beets....the white Beete is a cold and moist \par pot-herbe...Being eaten when it is boyled, it quickly descendeth... \par especially being taken with the broth wherein it is sodden... \par \par Beta rubra, Beta rubra Romana. Red Beets, Red Roman Beets. \par ...The great and beautiful Beet last described may be vsed in winter for a \par salad herbe, with vinegar, oyle, and salt, and is not onely pleasant to the \par taste, but also delightfull to the eye. \par The greater red Beet or Roman Beet, boyled and eaten with oyle, vineger and \par pepper, is a most excellent and delicate sallad: but what might be made of \par the red and beautifull root (which is to be preferred before the leaues, as \par well in beauty as in goodnesse) I refer vnto the curious and cunning cooke, \par who no doubt when he hath had the view thereof, and is assured that it is \par both good and wholesome, will make thereof many and diuers dishes, both \par faire and good." \par \par His illustration of the Red Roman Beet shows a plant with a skinny taproot. \par That bit about "who no doubt when he hath had the view thereof, and is \par assured that it is both good and wholesome, will make thereof many and \par diuers dishes, both faire and good" suggests that the red beet was not well \par known in England at that time. \par \par Waverly Root, in his book "Food", p. 30, says that early Romans ate only \par the greens, but by the beginning of the Christian era they were eating the \par leaves & roots. He says root beet appears in Charlemagne's garden list, but \par that the root beet had to be re-introduced into Renaissance France. \par \par Parkinson, "Paradisi in Sole...", p. 490, says "The great red Beete that \par Master Lete a Merchant of London gaue vnto Master Gerard, as he setteth it \par downe in his Herball, seemeth to bee the red kind of the last remembred \par Beete [Red Roman Beet], whose great ribbes as he saith, are as great as the \par middle ribbe of the Cabbage leafe, and as good to bee eaten, whose stalke \par rose with him to the height of eight cubits, and bore plenty of seede... \par The roote of the common red Beete with some, but more especially the Romane \par red Beete, is of much vse among Cookes to trimme or set out their dishes of \par meate, being cut out into diuers formes and fashions, and is grown of late \par dayes into a great custome of seruice, both for fish and flesh. \par The rootes of the Romane red Beete being boyled, are eaten of diuers while \par they are hot with a little oyle and vinegar, and is accounted a delicate \par sallet for the winter; and being cold they are so vsed and eaten likewise." \par \par (Note: The beet grown in Gerard's garden must have caused quite a \par sensation at the time. 8 cubits tall! What's the tallest beet you've ever \par grown?) \par \par is borscht appropriate for 12th c ireland? \par \par >=== \par > Conchobar Mac Muirchertaig \par \par Based on the above, my guess is 'no'. \par \par Cindy Renfrow/Sincgiefu \par renfrow at skylands.net \par \par \par Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 17:15:16 EDT \par From: melc2newton at juno.com \par Subject: Re: SC - beets & cabbage \par \par Here is the Ukrainian Borsch I used at my Russian inn last winter (no, it \par has no documentation to it, sorry :( \par \par Pisnyi Borsch \par 2 lbs. beets \par 1 carrot \par 1 parsnip \par 1 turnip \par 2 celery ribs \par 2 medium onions \par 1 bay leaf \par 3-4 peppercorns \par 3 dried boletus or 1\\2 chopped mushrooms \par Liquid from mushrooms (optional) \par 1 teaspoon sour salt \par 2 teaspoons salt \par 1 teaspoon ground pepper or to taste \par 2 teaspoons fresh chopped dill \par \par Soak boletus overnight. Cook in a little water until tender. Cool, \par reserve liquid, and chop fine. Scrub beets and cut into quarters. Cover \par with water and cook over low heat until tender, about 1 to 2 hours. Cool, \par pour off and reserve liquid. Slip off peels. This may be done a day in \par advance. Peel and cut up the other vegetables, Add bay leaf, peppercorns, \par and mushrooms to vegetables, with enough water to cover and cook in a \par large non-aluminum pot over low heat until tender. Strain beets liquid \par into vegetables. Shred beets in a processor or on a medium frater, and \par add.Simmer for ten minutes, and strain into a large pot. To keep broth \par clear, do not press vegetables. Add sour salt , mushroom liquid, pepper \par and salt. Bring to a gentle boil, then turn heat on low. Taste, the \par flavor should be tart mellow, and full. For more tartness, add fresh \par lemon juice or sour salt. Keeps well in refrigerator. Reheat gently; do \par not overcook, or the color will turn brown. \par To serve pour over 3-4 small potato dumpling (to which if you want the \par recipe, I'll dig the book out of the public library) in soup plates, and \par garnish with chopped dill. \par \par The reason I didn't copy the dumpling recipe is that I was going to serve \par it in cups so people could walk around without spilling any. \par \par It may be more complicated than the other recipes you've gotten, but the \par taste is unbelievably good! \par \par Beatrix \par \par \par Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 10:30:19 -0800 \par From: david friedman \par Subject: Re: SC - Spinach Tarte from Menagier-Recipe to follow later \par \par At 11:25 AM -0400 9/11/98, Nick Sasso wrote: \par >I do apologize for sucha 'spoon-teaseism'. I will, with much haste post \par >said recipe for all. I am at work, and may not have access until later in \par >the weekend, but it will be pposted in its original and redacted entirety. \par \par While you're waiting, here's our redaction (and the original) from the \par Miscellany: \par - -- \par Spinach Tart \par Goodman p. 278/23 -"A Tart" (GOOD) \par \par To make a tart, take four handfuls of beet leaves, two handfuls of parsley, \par a handful of chervil, a sprig of fennel and two handful of spinach, and \par pick them over and wash them in cold water, then cut them up very small; \par then bray with two sorts of cheese, to wit a hard and a medium, and then \par add eggs thereto, yolks and whites, and bray them in the cheese; then put \par the herbs into the mortar and bray all together and also put therein some \par fine powder. Or instead of this have ready brayed in the mortar two heads \par of ginger and onto this bray your cheese, eggs and herbs and then cast old \par cheese scraped or grated onto the herbs and take it to the oven and then \par have your tart made and eat it hot. \par \par 1/3 lb spinach and/or beet greens, chopped 2 T dried or 1/4 c fresh \par chervil 1/2 t ginger \par 1/2 cup fresh parsley, chopped 5 eggs 1/2 t salt \par 1 or 2 leaves fresh fennel, or 6 oz mozzarella cheese 9" pie crust \par 1 t fennel seed, ground in a mortar 6 oz cheddar \par \par Chop or grate greens and cheese and mix filling in a bowl. Make pie crust \par and bake at 400\u176\'b0 for about 10 minutes. Put filling in crust and bake about \par 40 minutes at 350\u176\'b0. We usually substitute spinach for beet leaves, dried \par chervil for fresh, and fennel seed for fresh fennel leaves because of \par availability. \par \par David/Cariadoc \par http://www.best.com/~ddfr/ \par \par \par Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 14:27:57 +0000 \par From: Erin Kenny \par Subject: Re: SC - Spinach Tarte from Menagier- \par \par Cariadoc wrote: \par > While you're waiting, here's our redaction (and the original) from the \par > Miscellany: \par > -- \par > Spinach Tart \par > Goodman p. 278/23 -"A Tart" (GOOD) \par \par \par \par > We usually substitute spinach for beet leaves, dried \par > chervil for fresh, and fennel seed for fresh fennel leaves because of \par > availability. \par \par GO FOR THE BEET GREENS!!! (not a criticism -- I understand the \par difficulties in procuring them) Beet greens have a much milder \par flavour than spinach, and usually you can get them for a song at a \par market (I have yet to pay for any of mine -- the farmers just ask if \par I have any rabbits and then scratch their heads). \par \par Claricia \par not a great spinach fan \par \par \par Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 21:58:55 EDT \par From: LrdRas at aol.com \par Subject: SC - Beets- A recipe \par \par Erin.Kenny at sofkin.ca writes: \par << GO FOR THE BEET GREENS!!! (not a criticism -- I understand the \par difficulties in procuring them) Beet greens have a much milder \par flavor than spinach, >> \par \par Agreed. However, I use Swiss chard in this recipe. Swiss chard has the same \par scientific name as beets and is in fact a bulbless beet. Swiss chard is \par readily available at most supermarkets year around. It is easily grown in the \par home garden. The stalks can be used in any recipe that calls for asparagus. \par It also has the amazing property of not going all mushy when you can it. \par ( 15 quarts today and twice that many to can on Sunday)! \par \par Since there is some confusion about the exact time beets with bulbs were \par introduced in period, I almost always use Swiss chard when redacting most of \par the beet recipes from period cookery manuals. They are one of my favorite \par foods. :-) \par \par Betes (A Recipe for Swiss Chard) \par (Period-like) \par Copyright L. J. Spencer, Jr. \par \par 2 pounds Swiss Chard \par 1/2 cup liquid (your choice of water, beef or chicken broth) \par 1/2 tsp. salt \par 1 tsp. sugar \par 1/4 tsp. ground cubebs \par A pinch of ground ginger \par 2 strips bacon, fried crisp \par Red wine, Cider or balsamic vinegar \par \par Cut stalks of chard into 1 inch pieces. Slice chard leaves into 1 inch wide \par strips crosswise. \par \par Bring liquid to a boil in a medium saucepan. Drop Swiss chard stalks and \par leaves into boiling liquid. Add salt, sugar, cubebs and ginger. Cover. \par Reduce heat to a simmer. Continue cooking for 15 mins. Remove from heat and \par drain. \par \par Place chard on a serving dish. Sprinkle with bacon then sprinkle a small \par amount of vinegar over the top. Serves 4. \par \par Ras \par \par \par Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 13:08:02 -0800 \par From: david friedman \par Subject: Re: SC - Spinach Tarte from Menagier- \par \par Cariadoc sent our version of Menagier's spinach and other greens tart, \par including the comment: \par \par >> We usually substitute spinach for beet leaves, dried \par >> chervil for fresh, and fennel seed for fresh fennel leaves because of \par >> availability. \par \par and Claricia/Erin Kenny wrote: \par \par >GO FOR THE BEET GREENS!!! (not a criticism -- I understand the \par >difficulties in procuring them) Beet greens have a much milder \par >flavour than spinach, and usually you can get them for a song at a \par >market (I have yet to pay for any of mine -- the farmers just ask if \par >I have any rabbits and then scratch their heads). \par \par We have done it with the mixture of beet greens, spinach and other herbs \par called for in the original; by the time you have all the other greens, \par seasonings, and the cheese in there, it doesn't make a large difference in \par taste whether you have just spinach or both spinach and beet greens. Part \par of the reason we use spinach as a substitute is that Menagier considers \par spinach to be one sort of beet greens. \par \par Elizabeth/Betty Cook \par \par \par From: \par To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu \par Subject: beets and sugar... \par \par niadro at yahoo.com writes: \par << Can anyone familiar with these roots confirm or go \par into detail what to look for in a beet? I'm deprived \par of practical information....maybe because I've lived \par in the central-midwest US all my life. >> \par \par The beet you described is ideal. Young, with leaves that are fresh and \par turgid with little wilting. \par \par This advice is also good for any vegetable whether it be beets, carrots, \par parsnips, peas or anyother sort. Buy then as young as possible. Young \par vegetables contain more sugars than older ones and freshly harvested more \par than those even a couple of hours old. \par \par If you cannot get fresh and young, the addition of 1 scant tsp of sugar to \par every 2 cups of vegetable at the beginning of the cooking process will \par 'freshen' them somewhat. This holds true for most foods that can't be cooked \par immediately after purchase/harvest. We have evidence of this practise \par throughout the the corpus of medieval recipes where sugar is a common \par ingredient. When we think 'sugar' in the current middle ages, we seem to \par think 'sweet' rather than 'mellow'. This is a mistake, IMO. If sugar is used \par in spice quantites rather than dessert quantities if becomes a wonderful \par flavor enhancer easily on a par with MSG or any of the other equally \par obnoxious modern ingredients used for that purpose. \par \par Many people who redact recipes automatically dump masses of sugar into any \par period recipe that calls for it. This is an error. Think of sugar like we now \par think of salt and pepper and your period recipes will then take on more depth \par and become automatically tastier. :-) \par \par Ras \par \par \par Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 08:17:20 EDT \par From: \par To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu \par Subject: Re: beets \par \par jkrissw at earthling.net writes: \par << Must be one of those \par different-sides-of-the-Atlantic things. :-) Are those given to animals \par over there, or are we talking about two different plants? >> \par \par The term beetroot is generically applied to any bulbous like root of the Beta \par sp. It is specifically used in the cattle industry to mean the root of the \par sugar beet and is most often marketed as 'beet pulp' (e.g. by product of \par sugar production) in the Northeast USA. Sugar beets were known and grown in \par the middle ages and only used for animal feed. Red beets were also known and \par grown but the root was long and rather small so the tops would not have been \par discarded. The nice round red beets we are familiar with were not created \par until very , very late in period (or possibly the Italian Renaissance). Swiss \par chard and red beets were not differentiated in any period beet recipes that I \par have seen and work better with tops than bottoms. You can buy seed that \par produces cylindrical beets but for the space, Swiss Chard would be a better \par choice. \par \par Ras \par \par \par Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 20:58:23 -0700 \par From: "Tracy Ryan" \par To: \par Subject: Re: beets \par \par Beets (tops and roots) are used in many traditional recipes in Eastern \par Europe. I can place the use of beet in dishes around the 14th century \par there. Ukrainian/Slavic cookbooks like to give the history of their \par traditional dishes. I've even discovered, in a Russian cookbook, that \par cheesecake is period. \par \par Caireach \par \par \par Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 09:19:39 EDT \par From: WOLFMOMSCA at aol.com \par Subject: Re: SC - Period Beet Recipes (was: summer feast) \par \par >From the Good Huswives Handmaid, 1588 \par \par How to make Lumbardy Tarts \par \par Take beets, chop them small, and to them put grated bread and cheese, and \par mingle them wel in the chopping. Take a few corrans, and a dishe of sweet \par butter, and melt it. Then stir al these in the butter, together with three \par yolkes of egges, sinamon, ginger, and sugar, and make your tart as large as \par you will, and fill it with the stuffe, bake it, and serve it in. \par \par I tried this once with canned beets and it was, well, not so good. There was \par a bitter after taste from the canned beets. I haven't got around to trying \par it with fresh beets, but it might taste better with them. Good luck. \par \par Wolfmother \par \par \par Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 18:19:50 -0400 \par From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow) \par Subject: Re: SC - Period Beet Recipes (was: summer feast) \par \par From Robert May, The Accomplisht Cook, or the Art and Mystery of Cookery. \par Printed by N. Brooke for T. Archer, 1660: \par \par A Grand Sallet of Beets, Currants and Greens \par Take the youngest and smallest leaves of spinage, the smallest also of \par sorrel, well washed currans, and red beets round the center being finely \par carved, oyl and vinegar, and the dish garnished with lemon and beets. \par \par Cindy Renfrow/Sincgiefu \par cindy at thousandeggs.com \par \par \par Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 08:41:11 -0400 \par From: Philip & Susan Troy \par Subject: Re: SC - Period Beet Recipes (was: summer feast) \par \par LrdRas at aol.com wrote: \par > stefan at texas.net writes: \par > << Is there any particular reason you think this is to be done with beet roots \par > instead of beet leaves? >> \par > \par > This is the same question I asked myself. So off to the kitchen I went. The \par > resulting product is definitely more tasty using greens instead of beetroot. \par > This doesn't mean that greens were used but it does mean that my version of \par > this recipe will specify the greens. :-) \par > \par > Ras \par \par The 15th-century Rouen Tacuinum has an illustration for "bletes" or \par beets, showing a lady cutting the greens off close to the ground and \par gathering them in a basket. This may not have been universal practice, \par but it at least indicates pretty clearly that it was done. \par \par Adamantius \par \par \par Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 09:12:23 EDT \par From: WOLFMOMSCA at aol.com \par Subject: Re: SC - Period Beet Recipes (was: summer feast) \par \par stefan at texas.net writes: \par << Is there any particular reason you think this is to be done with beet roots \par instead of beet leaves? This sounds very much like some of the tarts I think \par I've seen that were done with various herbs. \par >> \par \par Actually, there are a couple of reasons I think this is done with the root, \par not the greenery. It's really late period, for one. If it was from an \par earlier period, say 15th, as opposed to 16th century, then it would fit with \par the greenery tart theory. But by Elizabethan times, folks were using the \par root as well. Another reason comes from Gerard. Gerard's Herbal, admittedly \par published in 1597, but obviously a work which did not spring full-blown from \par John Gerard's forehead in that year, mentions the root part of the red beet \par as being both good and wholesome, and left it up to "cunning" cooks to devise \par "many and divers dishes". He states the "red and beautifull root (which is \par preferred before the leaves, as well in beautie as in goodnesses). The Roman \par beet is different from the white & green beets previously grown as potherbs. \par Having made up some of these, the visual effect is actually quite stunning. \par It makes a pretty tart. Fresh beets are a winter crop here in Florida, so \par I'll grab some fresh ones later in the season and try it again. The dish is \par actually a bit on the sweet side, and the bitter back-bite of the canned \par beets was more than I liked. Others may find the startling change of taste \par from the front of the mouth to the back very piquant and pleasing, but I \par didn't. It's probably just my own taste biases which made this less than \par appealing as a feast food for me, but it is quite in keeping with Elizabethan \par tastes for opposing tastes in the same dish. \par \par Wolfmother \par \par \par Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 09:53:36 -0400 \par From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow) \par Subject: Re: SC - Period Beet Recipes (was: summer feast) \par \par Actually, what Gerard said was: \par \par "Beta alba. White Beets. \par ...the white Beete is a cold and moist pot-herbe...Being eaten when it is \par boyled, it quickly descendeth... especially being taken \par with the broth wherein it is sodden... \par \par Beta rubra, Beta rubra Romana. Red Beets, Red Roman Beets... \par ...The great and beautiful Beet last described may be vsed in winter for a \par salad herbe, with vinegar, oyle, and salt, and is not \par onely pleasant to the taste, but also delightfull to the eye. \par \par The greater red Beet or Roman Beet, boyled and eaten with oyle, vineger and \par pepper, is a most excellent and delicate sallad: but \par what might be made of the red and beautifull root (which is to be preferred \par before the leaues, as well in beauty as in goodnesse) \par I refer vnto the curious and cunning cooke, who no doubt when he hath had \par the view thereof, and is assured that it is both good \par and wholesome, will make thereof many and diuers dishes, both faire and good." \par \par In other words, in England, they were well acquainted with using the beet \par greens as pot herbs or salad, but the variety with the big red root was \par fairly new, & not yet well known by cooks. Hence the need to assure them \par that it is good & wholesome to eat. By the time Robert May wrote his CB, \par the red beet root had been accepted. \par \par Cindy Renfrow/Sincgiefu \par cindy at thousandeggs.com \par \par \par Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:05:20 -0500 \par From: "Decker, Terry D." \par Subject: RE: SC - Period Beet Recipes (was: summer feast) \par \par > hey all from Anne-Marie \par > isnt there a German medieval recipe for beets ("ein condimente" comes to \par > mind)? \par \par George Fugger's recipe for smoked tongue found in Sabina Welserin uses red \par beet root as part of the pickling process, before smoking the tongue. So it \par wouldn't surprise me to find it used in other late German recipes. \par \par Bear \par \par \par Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 17:15:07 -0700 (PDT) \par From: Huette von Ahrens \par Subject: SC - Period Beet Recipe & period quote about beets \par \par - --- LrdRas at aol.com wrote: \par > stefan at texas.net writes: \par > << Is there any particular reason you think this is \par > to be done with beet roots instead of beet leaves? >> \par > \par > This is the same question I asked myself. So off to the kitchen I went. The \par > resulting product is definitely more tasty using greens instead of beetroot. \par > This doesn't mean that greens were used but it does mean that my version of \par > this recipe will specify the greens. :-) \par > \par > Ras \par \par However, here is Madge Lorwin's version of this \par recipe, from Dining With William Shakespeare, pg. \par 238-239. \par \par I have made this recipe many times and have had lots \par of good comments from both SCA friends and from my \par mundane family. \par \par 1 lb. fresh yound beets \par 2 tbsp. brown sugar \par 1 tsp. grated bread crumbs \par 3/4 cup grated mild Cheddar cheese \par 1/4 cup currants, parboiled \par 1/4 tsp. cinnamon \par 1/4 tsp. ginger \par 3 egg yolks \par 4 tbsp. butter melted. \par \par Peel the beets--this is best done with a potato \par peeler--and grate them into a mixing bowl. Add the \par sugar and stir until it melts. Mix in the bread \par crumbs, grated cheese, currants, spices, and egg \par yolks. Then stir in melted butter. [Using your \par favorite pie crust recipe] spread the filling evenly \par [over bottom pie crust] and cover it with the top \par crust. Seal the edges with the tines of a wet fork \par and trim off the surplus pastry. Punch fork holes in \par the crust and brush it with egg white. Bake at 450 \par degrees for twenty min., then lower the heat to 350 \par degrees and bake 25 min. longer. Serve slightly warm. \par \par I eliminated the pastry recipe, due to time \par constraints. \par \par Ms. Lorwin goes on to quote John Gerard in his \par "Herball" [1597] which talks about eating both the \par greens and the beet root. However, John Gerard says \par this, "But what might be made of the red and beautiful \par root (which is prefered before the leaves, as well in \par beautie as in goodnesse) I refer unto the curious and \par cunning cooke, who no doubt when hee had the view \par there, and is assured that it is both good and \par wholesome, will make thereof many and divers dishes, \par both faire and good." This, to my mind, kind of tells \par me, as it did to Ms. Lorwin, that the beet root was \par prefered. \par \par Huette \par \par \par Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 06:18:05 -0700 \par From: varmstro at zipcon.net (Valoise Armstrong) \par Subject: Re: SC - Period Beet Recipes (was: summer feast) \par \par >hey all from Anne-Marie \par >isnt there a German medieval recipe for beets ("ein condimente" comes to \par >mind)? \par > \par >Oh, German Girl, are you listening? :) \par \par Well, here's one German Girl replying for another . Gwen-Kat has her \par translation and redaction from Rumpolt for pickled beets on her web page. \par Here it is. \par \par Valoise \par \par ******* \par From Marx Rumpolt, Ein New Kochbuch, the chapter on accompaniments to \par fried meat \par \par 3.Rote Ruben eyngemacht mit klein geschnittenen Merrettich/ Aniss/ \par Coriander/ und ein wenig Kuemel/ sonderlich wenn die Ruben geschnitten/ \par gesotten mit halb Wein und halb Essig. \par \par My translation: \par \par Red beets preserved with small cut horseradish/ anise/ coriander/ and a \par little caraway/ special if the beets are cut/ marinated in half wine and \par half vinegar. \par \par My version: \par \par 3 cans (16 oz) small whole beets, cut into chunks \par 1 cup wine \par 1 cup vinegar \par 1 }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af6\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\fs20\insrsid278738 1/2}{\rtlch\fcs1 \af6\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\fs20\insrsid656717 ' long piece of fresh horseradish root, peeled and cut into slivers \par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af6\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\fs20\insrsid278738 1/2}{\rtlch\fcs1 \af6\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\fs20\insrsid656717 t anise seed \par 1 t coriander seed \par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af6\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\fs20\insrsid278738 1/2}{\rtlch\fcs1 \af6\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\fs20\insrsid656717 t caraway seed \par \par Combine all ingredients except beets in a pot. Bring to a boil, simmer 5 \par minutes, add the beets and heat through. Place in jar or crock and let \par mellow for at least 24 hours. The vinegar will preserve your beets; in \par period they would have been stored in the cellar. In modern times I \par would suggest the fridge or canning in a sterilized container. \par \par Comments: \par \par I used canned beets for the convenience and lower cost. This recipe was \par very well received, it will become part of my regular repertoire. \par \par \par Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 13:42:47 EDT \par From: ChannonM at aol.com \par Subject: Re: SC - Period Beet Recipes (was: summer feast) \par \par varmstro at zipcon.net writes: \par << In modern times I \par would suggest the fridge or canning in a sterilized container. >> \par \par This is an excellent example of a "cannable" recipe. Start with fresh beets, \par boil in water until the skin begins to peel back a little. You can test this \par by taking one out (use a hotmit ) and just rub the beet with your thumb, if \par it's ready the skin will just give way. Cut off the hard stem bump and if \par small enough just set it aside if the beets are larger than 2" I suggest \par quatering them or slicing even (up to cook, but be careful not to overdo the \par step with the liquid and spices, you may have beet mush if the pieces are too \par small). Make your liquid ingredient, add beets to it bring to a boil. Spoon \par beets into sterilized jars, pour juice over and seal. The seals will pop down \par to show the escape of air and the seal being complete, often this is a loud \par pop and has been known to scare people who weren't expecting it, sometimes \par you don't even notice. Always use sterilized lids and new seals. They will \par most likely keep 2 years. If any colour changes occur, any mold, if the seal \par pops or is not flat discard the contents in the garbage, do not throw into \par the toilet or down the sink. I have chosen to toss the whole jar as a \par precaution. I was taught by my grandmother to dig up a section of your back \par yard to dispose of "bad" can's but feel this may jeopardize animals or ground \par water. \par \par Hauviette \par \par \par Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 14:18:18 -0400 \par From: Philip & Susan Troy \par Subject: Re: SC - Period Beet Recipe & period quote about beets \par \par Huette von Ahrens wrote: \par > --- LrdRas at aol.com wrote: \par > > ahrenshav at yahoo.com writes: \par > > << This, to my mind, kind of tells me, as it did to Ms. Lorwin, that the \par > > beet root was prefered. \par > > \par > > Huette >> \par > > \par > > Possibly. It merely tells me that Gerard himself was partial to beetroots. \par \par I'm with Ras on this one. Lorwin quotes Gerard as saying (caps are mine, \par for emphasis), "But what might be made of the red and beautiful root \par (which is to be preferred before the leaves, as well in beautie as in \par goodnesse) I refer unto the CURIOUS and cunning cooke, WHO NO DOUBT WHEN \par HE HAD THE VIEW THERE, AND IS ASSURED THAT IT IS BOTH GOOD AND \par WHOLESOME, will make thereof many and divers dishes, both faire and \par good." This kind of phrasing is right out of Schwabe's "Unmentionable \par Cuisine": through education and an open mind, people all over the world \par will begin to understand and fully utilize the delectable culinary \par possibilities of the garden slug. Or whatever. The implication seems to \par be that Gerard knows they're good, and is waiting for the adventurous \par and skilled cooks of the world to catch up to him. They seem, \par eventually, to have done so, but _perhaps_ not until after 1589. \par \par Adamantius \par \par \par Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 12:36:46 EDT \par From: ChannonM at aol.com \par Subject: Re: SC - Period Beet Recipes (was: summer feast) \par \par WOLFMOMSCA at aol.com writes: \par << bitter back-bite of the canned beets >> \par \par I find this is true using beets canned in aluminum. If you can get your hands \par on glass canned beets you might have a winner. Or you could can them yourself \par and have them at other times of the year! :) \par \par Hauviette \par \par \par Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 14:39:47 -0400 \par From: "Nick Sasso" \par Subject: Re: SC - Period Beet Recipes (was: summer feast) \par \par In a message dated 10/19/99, Hauviette writes: \par <<>> The seals will pop down to show the escape of air and the seal being complete, often this is a loud pop and has been known to scare people who weren't expecting it, sometimes you don't even notice. Always use sterilized lids and new seals. They will most likely keep 2 years. If any colour changes occur, any mold, if the seal pops or is not flat discard the contents in the garbage, do not throw into the toilet or down the sink. I have chosen to toss the whole jar as a precaution. I was taught by my grandmother to dig up a section of your back yard to dispose of "bad" can's but feel this may jeopardize animals or ground water. \par \par Greetings and many thanks for sharing the beet preservation techniques here. I just wanted to add two things for your and anyone else's use: \par \par 1) The pop is from the hot air cooling and contracting, creating a vacuum to pull the dome lid down. If air ran in, it would add spoiling agents to the yummies inside. The 'whoosh' you here when you open the canned food is the rush of air inside to fill the now vacuum sealed jar. \par \par 2) I'm thinking that spoiled food put in the yard will not harm water and our fauna so much as you might first think. 'Food' rots all the time in the environs and makes nutrients for other species like mu chrooms and plants 9agter becoming humous. . not hummus). Also, those bacteria harmful to our digestiuve tract are not always so to other critters who may happen upon your discarded stash. Dump the food and let nature take it's course as long as you are using ingredients relatively close to their original state, e.g. no preservative chemicals or things like dioxins. \par \par niccolo difrancesco \par \par \par Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 19:36:24 EDT \par From: ChannonM at aol.com \par Subject: Re: SC - summer feast \par \par I'm sorry that I missed this email, I don't know how but I skipped it. The \par recipe is for beet roots and it originates from Apicius. Here is some \par background and the recipe; \par The recipe I chose to create is based on two recipes from Apicius: this is \par from Flower's & Rosenbaums edition. \par \par Book III Section II-4 \par Beetroot, another method, from Varro. Varro writes:\u8221\'94 Take beetroot, rub clean \par and cook in mulsum with a little salt and oil, or boil in water and oil with \par salt; make a broth, and drink it. It is even better if a chicken has been \par cooked in it first.\u8221\'94 \par and \par Section XI-2 \par Boiled beets, another method- They are good served with a dressing of \par mustard, al little oil and vinegar. \par I chose to preserve the beets using a modern pickling method in order to take \par advantage of the early preparation and availability of fresh beets at a good \par price. To make the recipe without canning, simply leave out the last step. \par Some variation was used in the recipe presented, for example ; honey was \par used in place of mulsum in the preserving process. Honey is one of the chief \par ingredients in mulsum according to Flower & Rosenbaum. \par Adapted Recipe \par My recipe is based on the ingredients of the Apicius recipes and the pickling \par recipes that my grandmother used. \par 1 * lbs fresh beets \par 1 * cups white vinegar \par * cup water \par * cup honey \par 1 TB mustard seed \par \par Boil the beets until the skins begin to fall off. Rinse and remove skins. \par Chop into quarters or leave whole if small enough. \par Combine remaining ingredients and boil for 5 minutes. Add beets and heat \par through. In prepared canning jars spoon beets to shoulder of the jar, pour \par over juice to within * inch of lip and seal. \par Makes 2-3 pints \par \par \par Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 19:36:22 EDT \par From: ChannonM at aol.com \par Subject: SC - canning beets \par \par "If any colour changes occur, any mold, if the seal pops or is not flat \par discard the contents in the garbage" \par \par clarification:IF THE SEAL POPS UP, it indicates air going in and that's not \par good. If this happens prior to opening the jar, then I would discard it. \par \par Hauviette \par \par \par Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 17:18:30 -0700 \par From: varmstro at zipcon.net (Valoise Armstrong) \par Subject: Re: SC - Period Beet Recipes (was: summer feast) \par \par A couple of months ago I found a copy of Hildegard von Bingen's Naturkunde \par translated into modern German by Peter Riethe. He doesn't give the \par original, only his translations of her natural history work. I checked to \par see of there was an entry for beets and this is what I found (English \par translation is mine): \par \par De Ruba. Die Wei\u223\'dfe R\u252\'fcbe ist mehr als kalt, liegt zwar etwas schwer im \par Magen, ist aber leicht verdaulich. Vor dem Genusse werde sie gesch\u228\'e4lt; roh \par ist sie weniger zutr\u228\'e4glich als gekocht. \par \par De Ruba. The white Beet is more than cold, lays somewhat hard in the \par stomach; it is however easy to digest. Before consumption it should be \par peeled; raw is less beneficial than cooked. \par \par This is 12th century stuff here. Until I read this I was convinced that \par until very late in period the leaves and not the roots were what was eaten. \par But peeling before eating sort of implies using the roots. \par \par Valoise \par }\pard \ltrpar\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\tx1260\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\fs20\insrsid656717 \par \par }\pard \ltrpar\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\fs20\insrsid656717 Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 09:28:05 -0400 \par From: "Nick Sasso" \par Subject: Re: SC - Period Beet Recipes (was: summer feast) \par \par Remember that Hildegart was somewhat of a fringist in her time. Her practices were, by no means, universally accepted, though not exactly banished by the Church either. Her practices of singing sacred music, herbal/natural healing, reading gospels alound in public and some Sophiaistic teachin g s were all rather radical at the time. . . if not borderline 'heretical' or pagan. I suggest that her description of beets as foodstuff would not imply that beets were commonly eaten, but that they could be eaten in some fashion . . . similar to Master A damantius' assertion about Gerard on beets in the herbal. \par \par Even that fact that a woman wrote about health (or anything for that matter) in the 12th century is radical and inspiring to women today. \par \par niccolo difrancesco \par }\pard \ltrpar\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\tx1260\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\fs20\insrsid656717 \par \par }\pard \ltrpar\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\fs20\insrsid656717 Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 08:03:15 -0600 (MDT) \par From: grasse at mscd.edu (Martina Grasse) \par Subject: SC - Digest 1696 \par \par Sorry, have been on digest, and the last missive I sent never posted. I \par have webbed a pickled beet root recipe from Rumpolt. (the transliteration \par may not be totaly up to snuff (I have learned some things since writing \par this, but have not had the time to update and insert the characters I have \par been taught.) but the translation is accurate. \par The pickled beets are quite good, and yes I really did use that much \par horseradish... it adds a nice zip to things. \par \par http://clem.mscd.edu/~grasse/GK_ASsp99_beet.htm \par \par Gwen Catrin von Berlin \par Caerthe \par }\pard \ltrpar\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\tx1260\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\fs20\insrsid656717 \par \par }\pard \ltrpar\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\fs20\insrsid656717 Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 02:51:38 +0100 \par From: Thomas Gloning \par Subject: SC - period beet recipes (?) \par \par I am not a native speaker of English, so translating and identifying \par plant names is quite dangerous for me. Anyway: Here are two recipes from \par the "Rheinfraenkisches Kochbuch" (about 1445), that might have something \par to do with beets. Both the leaves and the roots are used here. This in a \par somewhat simplified transcription: \par \par ||30|| Wiltu einen behenden guden kappus machen so grab mangolt usz mit \par den worczelen vnd wesche daz gar suberlich vnde sude isz \u239\'efn gesalczem \par wasser in eime kessel bisz daz isz genuch sij So czuge isz usz vnd lege \par isz von ein ander uff ein schone bret adir duch vnd lasz isz wol kalten \par So du yme die ubirhut abe vnd lege isz dan in eine geschiere vnd du \par senff eszig honig vnd saffran darczu so hastu einen guden kappusz \par \par ||31|| den selben kappus magistu auch machen mit suszem puluer vnd vigen \par da in sieden vnd win eszig vnd winber vnd mandelkerne dar uff strauwen \par vnd du magist auch mispelen beren vnd allerhande dar in dune beide ruben \par snydde vnd kappusz \par \par *** \par \par Lady Allison Poinvillars de Tours/Lyn Parkinson sent me an English \par translation of these two recipes several weeks ago. \par \par Cheers, \par Thomas \par }\pard \ltrpar\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\tx1260\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\fs20\insrsid656717 \par \par }\pard \ltrpar\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\fs20\insrsid656717 Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 22:04:07 MST \par To: "Mark.S Harris (rsve60)" \par From: LYN M PARKINSON \par Subject: Re: Thomas' beets \par \par 30. Willst du ein wohlschmeckendes und gutes Kraut zubereiten, dann \par grabe Mangold samt den Wurzeln aus und reinige alles sauber, siede es in \par gesalzenem Wasser in einem Kessel, bis es genug gekocht hat. Dann ziehe \par die einzelnen Bl\u8240\'89tter heraus und lege sie gesondert auf ein sauberes \par Brett oder Tuch und la? es v\u710\'88llig erkalten. Entferne ihm dann die \par \u8240\'89u?eren Bl\u8240\'89tter und lege is dann in eine Sch\u184\'b8ssel. Mache es mit Senf, \par Essig, Honig und Safran an, dann wird es ein wohlschmeckendes Kraut. \par \par If you wish to prepare a savory and good cabbage, then dig beets together \par with the roots and wash all clean, simmer it in salted water in a kettle, \par until it is cooked enough. Then take the individual leaves out and lay \par them separately on a clean board or cloth and let them cool completely. \par Remove from it the outer leaves and lay it then in a bowl. Make it with \par mustard, vinegar, honey and saffron, then it is a savory cabbage. \par \par \par 31. Dasselbe Kraut kannst du auch zubereiten, indem du es mit s\u184\'b8?em \par Gew\u184\'b8rzpulver und Feigen im Kochwasser siedest. Gib danach Weinessig \par hinzu und streue Rosinen und Mandelkerne dar\u184\'b8ber. Du kannst auch \par Mispeln, Birnen und allerlei andere Zutaten mit hinein tun und nicht nur \par das Mangold-Kraut, sondern auch Schnitze von der Runkelr\u184\'b8be verwenden \par (von welcher Mangold der Blatt-Teil ist). \par \par The same cabbage you can also prepare, when you cook it with sweet herb \par powder and figs in simmering water. Add wine vinegar to it and strew \par raisins and almond kernels over it. You can also use medlars, pears, and \par all other similar ingredients with it and not only the beet greens, \par separate also slices of the beet root (from which beet the leaf is). \par \par In number 30, I believe only the beet leaves are used, whereas both root \par and leaf are used in #31. \par \par Allison \par allilyn at juno.com, Barony Marche of the Debatable Lands, Pittsburgh, PA \par Kingdom of Aethelmearc \par \par \par Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 03:52:14 GMT \par From: kerric at pobox.alaska.net (Kerri Canepa) \par Subject: Re: SC - Period Beet Recipes (was: summer feast) \par \par >The only recipe I've seen with beets (and even then it isn't clear if the root \par >or the leaves are used) is Hare in Wortys where the beets are part of the \par >sauce. \par \par And now that I've taken a closer look at it, I've changed my mind. I think the \par greens were used in the sauce as everything else in it includes greens and other \par plant matter. Worts, after all, do mean greens. \par \par Drat. I think I'm going to have to use a modern recipe (grit teeth) that simply \par prepares the beets. A modern Burgundian beet salad is just roasted, diced beets, \par wine vinegar, olive oil, and a bit of sugar. Mix the last three ingredients \par together, pour over the warm beets, and let marinate for an hour or so. Can't \par get much easier than that. \par \par Kerri \par Cedrin Etainnighean, OL \par }\pard \ltrpar\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\tx1260\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\fs20\insrsid656717 \par \par Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 11:09:29 +0100From: Christina Nevin Subject: RE: SC - Another Chard Name The answer to the Latin name question from my fath er (Mr Green Thumb himself- - a trait I unfortunately didn't inherit);===================================Dear TinaSurely you knew that no matter what the colour of the stems of Silver Beet(Swiss Chard) its real name is :--Beta Vulgaris var CiclaBeet root o n the other hand is :--Beta Vulgaris.5930 BEET - (RED STEMS) (Bie) [A]Beta vulgaris var cicla 1.2.3.Rhubarb Chard, Swiss Chard, or Silver Beet, is a member of the beet family andwithstands heat and droughts better than most other greens,The leaves are ric h in vitamins and can be served raw, boiled or steamed.The leaf stems can be cut into Lengths and used as a substitute forAsparagus and also for Celery.Harvest by using the outer leaves and it will continue to produce.Adds some much needed colour to the ve g etable patch, or is even worthyof a place in the flower garden. Approximately 55 days to maturity.5945 BEET - BRIGHT LIGHTS (Bie) [B]Beta vulgaris var cicla 1.2.3.Bright Lights, a vibrant new Swiss Chard - 1998 All American Winner.Distinguished by stems o f many different colours, it is dazzlinglyattractive in all stages of growth.Vigorous and widely adopted, "Bright Lights" will be the star in any garden.The stems vary greatly in colour, the main colours are yellow gold, pinkand crimson with secondary colo u rs including pink and white stripped,orange, scarlet, purple, white and green with intermediate pastels.Each colour is present in subtle variation.Maturity in 3-5 weeks, for young salad greens, 7-10 weeks for mature sizeplants.Note we suggest brief cookin g , since the colour fades with lengthy cooking.Beginning in 1977 with the parent plants, a red one and a yellow one andafter crossing these to the standard green and white 5946 BEET - FIVE COLOUR MIX (Bie) [B]Beta vulgaris var cicla 1.2.3.An Australian dev e loped mix of coloured Silver Beet or Chard in amixture of many colour variations from the basic red, yellow, orange,cream or white.Next you will want to know how to cook it. Try it sprinkled with celeryseeds===================================(paternal jok e - I don't much care for silverbeet, but absolutely loathecelery)Al Vostro e al Servizio del SognoLucretzia++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++Lady Lucrezia-Isabella di Freccia | mka Tina NevinThamesreach Shire, The Isles, Drachenwald | L ondon, UK \par \par }\pard \ltrpar\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\fs20\insrsid656717 Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 10:18:34 -0000 \par From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Nanna_R=F6gnvaldard=F3ttir?=" \par Subject: Re: SC - Nanna's Danish Cookbook \par \par Huette wrote: \par > If you \par >have any information about the eating of beetroots \par >during period, whether or not they were eaten, I \par >would love to see what you have. Thanks. \par \par Here is the recipe from the Koge Bog, with my translation. \par \par R\u248\'f8de Beder at indsalte. F\u248\'f8rst skal leggis i en Brendevijnspande 2. \par Tegelsteene paa Kanten / der paa lagt nogle stycker Tr\u230\'e6 / oc siden gufuis \par vand paa / dog saa at det icke naer tr\u230\'e6erne: Offuen paa samme tr\u230\'e6er skulle \par Bederne leggis / oc siden Hielmen paas\u230\'e6t. Leg der under en god ild / saa \par bederne aff jemen kunde kogis / dog icke forbl\u248\'f8de. Naar de saa er s\u248\'f8dne / \par reengiorde oc kolde / skulle de sk\u230\'e6ris vdi t\u248\'f8nde skiffuer / der til Peberrod \par vdi smaa stycker (som hacket speck) oc skal aff forn\u230\'e6ffnde skaarne Beder \par f\u248\'f8rst et law vdi en ny glasseret Potte nedleggis: Derpaa str\u248\'f8es aff samme \par Peberrod / Danske Kommen / smaa st\u248\'f8tte Peber /oc ringe salt: Siden leggis \par huert andet law Beder / oc huert andet forn\u230\'e6ffnde Vrter str\u248\'f8es der offuer. \par Siden giffues offuer god \u216\'d8ledicke / eller helten \u216\'d8ledicke / oc helten \par Vijnedicke / saa megit Bedin kand bet\u230\'e6cke. Siden leggis et Log offuer med et \par reent tyngsel / oc offuerbindis med et reent Kl\u230\'e6de /oc hens\u230\'e6ttis paa en \par bequemme sted.Nogle faa Dage der effter kunde de brugis: Dog r\u248\'f8r icke der i \par met bare Fingre. \par \par How to pickle beetrots. First take a distilling pan an place two bricks in \par it. Then arrange some wooden sticks on top of them and add water to the pan, \par but not so much that it reaches the sticks. Arrange the beetrots on top of \par the sticks and place the lid on top of the pan. Put on a good fire so the \par beetrots will be cooked in the steam, but without bleeding. When they are \par cooked, cleaned and cold, they should be cut into thin slices, and some \par horseradish should be cut into small pieces (as when lardons are chopped \par up). Take an new glazed jar and first place a layer of the aforementioned \par sliced beetrots in it; then sprinkle some horseradish, caraway, finely \par crushed pepper and a small amount of salt over this. Add more layers of \par beetrots and the aforementioned spices. Then good ale vinegar is poured \par over, or half ale vinegar, half wine vinegar, as much as needed to cover the \par beetrots. Then place a lid with a clean weight on top on the jar, tie a \par clean cloth over it and store in a convenient place. The beetrots can be \par used in a few days; but do not stir them with bare fingers. \par \par Nanna \par }\pard \ltrpar\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\tx1260\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\fs20\insrsid656717 \par \par }\pard \ltrpar\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\fs20\insrsid656717 Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 07:52:11 EDT \par From: ChannonM at aol.com \par Subject: Re: SC - Nanna's Danish Cookbook-beets again? :) \par \par We had this discussion on the Apicius list, here are some exerpts, I \par apologize ahead for posting info from another list, but I thought this would \par be helpful. I posted my Roman beet recipe a while back, the Rosenbaum \par translation indicates roots used (yes this is at the latest 4thC but it is in \par period) \par \par Discussion; \par Q> For all of those who have used beets, which part of the vegetable do you \par > use. The book where I was able to find the original Latin and direct \par > translation along with the adaptation recipe suggested that maybe the \par > 'greens' were the main part used. Any ideas? \par \par A>>Anthimus (writing a bit later, in the 6th century, but fairly clearly in \par the same culinary tradition) includes beets in a list with mallows and \par leeks as "suitable both in summer and winter". The winter use strongly \par suggests roots, although that doesn't preclude the summer use as including \par greens. Heather Rose Jones \par }\pard \ltrpar\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\tx1260\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\fs20\insrsid656717 \par \par }\pard \ltrpar\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\fs20\insrsid656717 Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 01:34:00 EDT \par From: LrdRas at aol.com \par Subject: Re: SC - Beets redux... \par \par Since this beet discussion has come up, I have been doing a little reading \par and have revised my opinion about whether beetroots were used in the MA's. I \par now think they were used BUT were still not all that commonly. Platina does \par mention beets as a root in the third chapter of De Honesta but the only \par recipe he has using beets is in the sixth chapter where it is included as am \par ingredient in 'Green Sauce.' That example clearly indicates the leaves and/or \par stems are meant by the term 'beta' since the use or the red beetroot would \par result in a brown sauce and not a green sauce. \par \par Other than the isolated case of the possible use of the root in the late \par period recipe for the tarts posted earlier this week, I found no tart recipes \par including beets as an ingredient that would suggest an interpretation of \par their use in tarts in a form other than greens. \par \par There are several isolated recipes which might be interpreted as the root but \par they were rare and in some cases very ambiguous. A phone call to a \par horticuluralist that I know is interested in historical horticulture offered \par the intriguing opinion that medieval beets were rounded at the top and then \par tapered to a point resembling an over sized squat carrot rather than the \par ball-like form we normally associate a beet with in the current middle ages. \par He has promised to try to find me the source of this info if he can. \par \par If he is accurate in his interpretation and you have garden space or access \par to a good green grocer, the variety Cylindra would be a good modern \par substitute for beetroots in period recipe when their use clearly indicated, \par IMO. \par \par Ras \par }\pard \ltrpar\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\tx1260\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\fs20\insrsid656717 \par \par }\pard \ltrpar\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\fs20\insrsid656717 Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 10:32:35 -0000 \par From: nanna at idunn.is (Nanna Rognvaldardottir) \par Subject: Re: SC - re: chard, AGAIN \par \par Kylie wrote: \par >I recieved a copy of "The New Oxford Book of Food \par >Plants" last Friday (feel free everyone to tell me if this is known to be a \par >dodgy reference; I've not come across it before) and it has this to say: \par >SEAKALE-BEET or CHARD (Beta Vulgaris). This is very closely aligned to \par >spinach-beet and is used in the same way. It differs mainly in having a \par >broad, white leaf-stalk, up to several centimetres across, which is often \par >eaten as a seperate vegetable, while the green blade is used like spinach. \par >Some cultivars have reddish-purple leaf-stalks and blades. \par \par And I received a copy of Alan Davidson\u180\'b4s long awaited The Oxford Companion \par to Food just this morning (and shall be buried deep in it for weeks to come, \par it is simply immense, I\u180\'b4m just thankful it wasn\u180\'b4t published a few years \par earlier, or I would never have written my own book) - anyway, here is most \par of the chard entry. But no mention of silverbeet here either - that seems to \par be purely an Australian term. \par \par "Chard. Beta vulgaris ssp circla. Also called Swiss chard, leaf beet, \par seakale beet, white beet, and spinach beet. It is related to sugar beet, but \par it produces large leaves and fleshy stalks, rather than a bulbous root. Its \par leaves taste something like spinach, but are coarser. The stalks may be a \par pale celadon colour or vivid scarlet (rhubarb or ruby chard). The stalks and \par leaves are generally cooked separately in different ways. \par The history of chard has been tracked back to the famous hanging gardens of \par ancient Babylonia, and the vegetable evidently has a long history in the \par Arab world. From the Arabic name silq came the Spanish acelga. However, the \par name "chard" derives from the Latin and French words for thistle, although \par chard is not related to the thistle, and eventually came to mean the stalk \par or ribs of some vegetables such as chard or cardoon which is related to the \par thistle. By the 19th century seed catalogues were adding "Swiss" to the \par name. This was presumably to distinguish it from cardoon, but it is not \par clear why the term "Swiss" was chosen, although Jane Grigson (1978) \par evidently believed that the epithet originated in Dutch. Evelyn (1699) had \par not used it; he referred to the "Rib of the White Beet (by the French call\u180\'b4d \par the Chard)" with approval and made the interesting comment that it "melts, \par and eats like Marrow". \par The circla in the vegetable\u180\'b4s scientific name derives from sicula, which \par refers to Sicily, one of the places where chard first grew. Chard is popular \par around the Mediterranean especially in Provence and Nice, and in Catalonia, \par including the Balearic Islands, where the leaves are often prepared with \par pine nuts and raisins, a dish with Arabic origins." \par \par Nanna \par }\pard \ltrpar\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\tx1260\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\fs20\insrsid656717 \par \par }\pard \ltrpar\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\fs20\insrsid656717 Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 13:09:33 -0000 \par From: nanna at idunn.is (Nanna Rognvaldardottir) \par Subject: Re: SC - Beets redux... \par \par Ras wrote: \par >A phone call to a \par >horticuluralist that I know is interested in historical horticulture offered \par >the intriguing opinion that medieval beets were rounded at the top and then \par >tapered to a point resembling an over sized squat carrot rather than the \par >ball-like form we normally associate a beet with in the current middle ages. \par >He has promised to try to find me the source of this info if he can. \par \par To quote Davidson\u180\'b4s Oxford Companion to Food again: \par \par "Red beet, known as Roman beet, and yellow-rooted varieties spread through \par Europe and Asia in succeeding centuries. \par In Europe a yellow kind developed into fodder beet. In Germany it was known \par as Mangoldwurzel (beet root), which was corrupted to Mangelwurzel (root for \par time of need) because it would only be eaten when nothing else was \par available. \par However, until well after medieval times, beet roots remained long and \par relatively thin. The first mention of a swollen root seems to have been in a \par botanical work of the 1550s and what is recognized as the prototype of the \par modern beetroot, the "Beta Roman" of Daleschamp, dates back only to 1587. \par In Britain the common beets were originally all light in colour. The red \par beet, when introduced in the 17th century, was described by Gerard (1633) \par with some enthusiasm ..." \par \par Nanna \par \par \par Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 21:57:19 EDT \par From: LrdRas at aol.com \par Subject: SC - Beets \par \par raghead at liripipe.com writes: \par << I have one off subject question: re the "white beets", are these a member \par of the beet family or some other vegetable? >> \par \par Beets come in many forms. Gold, burgundy, red/white striped, orange and \par white. There are also bulbless varieties such as Swiss Chard and varieties \par that have long roots like a carrot or radish. Some beets get grossly huge \par roots such as sugar beets and those grown to feed livestock. \par \par I would assume that white beets are meant or possibly Swiss chard. \par \par Ras \par \par \par }\pard\plain \ltrpar\s18\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0 \rtlch\fcs1 \af2\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f2\fs20\lang1033\langfe1033\cgrid\langnp1033\langfenp1033 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\insrsid656717 Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 09:53:01 -0400 \par From: Elaine Koogler \par To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org \par Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] beet juice dye (last) \par \par Jennifer Thompson wrote: \par > Anyone have any ideas on what to do with two cans worth of beets? Sans juice? \par > The baby and I ate them all last time, so we are beeted out and the hubby \par > won't touch them. \par > \par > Lann \par \par Shred them, add cheese, and other goodies and make Lombardy tarts. These things \par are so great that even folks who HATE beets like these. The recipe I use is a \par redaction from "Dining with William Shakespeare": \par \par Lumbardy Tarts \par \par 1 lb fresh young beets \par 2 tbsp. Brown sugar \par 1 tsp. grated bread crumbs \par 3/4 cup grated mild Cheddar cheese \par 1/4 cup currants, parboiled \par 1/4 tsp. cinnamon \par 1/4 tsp. ginger \par 3 egg yolks \par 4 tbsp. Butter, melted. \par \par Peel the beets and grate them into a mixing bowl. Add the sugar and stir until \par it melts. Mix in the bread crumbs, grated cheese, currants, spices and egg \par yolks. Then stir in the melted butter. \par \par Spread the filling evenly in the dish and cover it with the top crust. Seal the \par edges with the tines of a wet fork and trim off the surplus pastry. Punch fork \par holes in the crust and brush it with egg white. Bake at 450=B0 for 20 minutes, \par then lower the heat to 350=B0. Bake for 25 minutes longer. Serve slightly warm. \par \par It's actually best served warm, but I usually take several to Pennsic where we \par eat them cold, and they're still very good! \par \par Kiri \par }\pard\plain \ltrpar\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0 \rtlch\fcs1 \af4\afs24 \ltrch\fcs0 \f4\fs24\lang1033\langfe1033\cgrid\langnp1033\langfenp1033 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\fs20\insrsid656717 \par \par Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 14:50:22 -0700 (PDT) \par From: Huette von Ahrens \par Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] beet juice dye (last) \par To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org \par \par I have made Lombardy tarts many times, but always \par using fresh beets, never cooked beets. I am wondering \par if cooked beets wouldn't be too mushy for this pie. \par \par Also, don't use cheddar cheese. Even mild cheddar \par cheese is too strong for the pie. Besides, cheddar \par isn't period. I usually use mozzarella, with very \par good results. \par \par Huette \par \par --- Elaine Koogler wrote: \par > Shred them, add cheese, and other goodies and make \par > Lombardy tarts. These things \par > are so great that even folks who HATE beets like \par > these. The recipe I use is a \par > redaction from "Dining with William Shakespeare": \par > \par > Lumbardy Tarts \par > \par > 1 lb fresh young beets \par > 2 tbsp. Brown sugar \par > 1 tsp. grated bread crumbs \par > 3/4 cup grated mild Cheddar cheese \par > 1/4 cup currants, parboiled \par > 1/4 tsp. cinnamon \par > 1/4 tsp. ginger \par > 3 egg yolks \par > 4 tbsp. Butter, melted. \par \par \par }\pard\plain \ltrpar\s18\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0 \rtlch\fcs1 \af2\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f2\fs20\lang1033\langfe1033\cgrid\langnp1033\langfenp1033 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\insrsid656717 Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 09:46:18 -0400 \par From: Elaine Koogler \par To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org \par Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] beet juice dye (last) \par \par Interesting. I've been using canned beets for many years, as well as \par cheddar cheese, and have had good success with both. I'll have to try \par it as you suggest and see what the differences are. I began using \par canned beets as the fresh were not available when I wanted to make the \par pies. \par \par Kiri \par \par Huette von Ahrens wrote: \par > I have made Lombardy tarts many times, but always \par > using fresh beets, never cooked beets. I am wondering \par > if cooked beets wouldn't be too mushy for this pie. \par > \par > Also, don't use cheddar cheese. Even mild cheddar \par > cheese is too strong for the pie. Besides, cheddar \par > isn't period. I usually use mozzarella, with very \par > good results. \par > \par }\pard\plain \ltrpar\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0 \rtlch\fcs1 \af4\afs24 \ltrch\fcs0 \f4\fs24\lang1033\langfe1033\cgrid\langnp1033\langfenp1033 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\fs20\insrsid656717 > Huette \par \par \par }\pard\plain \ltrpar\s18\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0 \rtlch\fcs1 \af2\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f2\fs20\lang1033\langfe1033\cgrid\langnp1033\langfenp1033 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\insrsid656717 From: Elaine Koogler \par To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org \par Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] beet juice dye (last) \par Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 16:56:35 -0400 \par \par I suspect the trick may be that I drain them very thoroughly. And I \par don't think that they are quite as "mushy" as they'd be if they were \par cooked. Also, I don't try to grate them. I simply chop them fairly \par finely. \par \par Kiri (looking forward to trying the recipe with Mozzarella!!) \par \par Huette von Ahrens wrote: \par > It is good to know that canned beets are okay to use. \par > I am lucky to live in Los Angeles and we usually \par > always have fresh beets available, with grown here or \par > from foreign parts. Just not a cheap as canned beets. \par > \par > Huette \par }\pard\plain \ltrpar\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0 \rtlch\fcs1 \af4\afs24 \ltrch\fcs0 \f4\fs24\lang1033\langfe1033\cgrid\langnp1033\langfenp1033 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\fs20\insrsid656717 \par \par From: "Olwen the Odd" \par To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org \par Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] pickled beets? \par Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 15:15:57 +0000 \par \par >Ok, I keep coming across references to pickled beets in German sources. I \par >know that most SCA cooks believe that beet root was seldom eaten in \par >period. Have people tried pickling beet greens? What do they taste like? \par > \par >-- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa \par \par I make the pickled beets and occasionally toss in the greens if I can get \par nice fresh ones on the beets. They add to the colour as well as the texture \par so it is very attractive in the bowl. The greens are somewhat bitter, which \par I like, but not as bitey as mustard greens and not as tough as kale. \par \par Olwen \par \par \par Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:58:48 -0700 \par To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org \par From: lilinah at earthlink.net \par Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] pickled beets? \par \par Jadwiga Zajaczkowa wrote: \par >Ok, I keep coming across references to pickled beets in German sources. \par >I know that most SCA cooks believe that beet root was seldom eaten in \par >period. \par \par There are German recipes for beets and for pickled beets and since \par they are referred to as red roots i assume they actually ate the \par roots :-) \par \par I made pickled beets for the German feast at the Province of the \par Mists Boar Hunt 2001. \par \par The recipe and my redaction are on my website... \par http://witch.drak.net/lilinah/2001Menu.html \par \par but i guess i will post it here... \par \par Marinated Beets with horseradish \par Marx Rumpolt, Ein New Kochbuch, 1581 \par \par 3. Rote Ruben eyngemacht mit klein geschnittenen Merrettich/ Aniss/ \par Coriander/ und ein wenig Kuemel/ sonderlich wenn die Ruben \par geschnitten/ gesotten mit halb Wein und halb Essig. \par \par 3. Rote Ruben: Red beets preserved with small cut horseradish/ anise/ \par coriander/ and a little caraway/ special if the beets are cut/ \par marinated in half wine and half vinegar. \par translation by M. Grasse at \par http://clem.mscd.edu/~grasse/GK_ASsp99_beet.htm \par \par makes about 1 gallon \par 10 large red beets, cut into medium-small chunks \par 2 cup red wine \par 2 cup red wine vinegar (white or cider will do) \par 1-1/2 feet of fresh horseradish root, peeled and cut into slivers \par 1-1/2 TB salt \par 1 tsp whole anise seed \par 1 tsp whole caraway seed \par 2 tsp whole coriander seed \par \par 1. Cut up beets. \par 2. Combine all ingredients except beets in a pot. Bring to a boil, \par then lower heat and simmer 5 minutes \par 3. Add the beets and heat through. \par 4. Place in jar or crock and let mellow for at least 24 hours, up to \par two weeks in a cook place. \par \par NOTE: The horseradish wasn't strong enough for me. Next time i will \par food process it. \par \par I also noticed a salad recipe in Rumpolt that included "rote ruben". \par I assume it uses the roots because it didn't mention the leaves and \par it does mention cooking them, but i suppose it could be the greens, \par too... \par http://staff-www.uni-marburg.de/~gloning/rump_sal.htm \par \par 7. Gruen Salat/ der klein vnnd jung ist/ rote Ruben klein geschnitten/ \par vnd darueber geworffen/ wenn der Salat angemacht ist/ vnnd die rote \par Ruben gesotten vnd kalt seyn. \par \par > Have people tried pickling beet greens? What do they taste like? \par \par Haven't done that. I like them "stir fried", though. \par \par Anahita \par \par \par Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 13:10:44 -0700 (PDT) \par From: Huette von Ahrens \par Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] pickled beets? \par To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org \par \par --- jenne at fiedlerfamily.net wrote: \par > Ok, I keep coming across references to pickled beets \par > in German sources. I \par > know that most SCA cooks believe that beet root was \par > seldom eaten in \par > period. Have people tried pickling beet greens? What \par > do they taste like? \par > \par > -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa \par \par No, that is not entirely true. Beet roots were seldom \par eaten before the 16th Century. By the 16th Century, \par there are quite a few recipes in the English and \par German cookbooks of that century and later that call \par for red beet roots. \par \par I have never tried pickling beet greens, but I suppose \par it would be similar to Sauerkraut. Have you found a \par recipe for pickled beet greens? \par \par Huette \par \par \par Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:05:19 -0400 \par To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org \par From: Philip & Susan Troy \par Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] pickled beets? \par \par I did this a month or so ago, in an extremely munitions-grade, \par quick-and-dirty method: commercial beet horseradish mixed with \par commercial pickled beets, drained and grated, with salt and the \par spices added. It turned out surprisingly good after a maceration \par period of about 8 hours (I bruised the seeds). And then there was the \par fun of trying (and failing) to prevent the other cooks from making \par beet-vinegar switchel for the unwary and thirsty... for some reason \par people kept thinking it was some kind of wine... \par \par Adamantius \par \par \par Also sprach Olwen the Odd: \par >>makes about 1 gallon \par >>10 large red beets, cut into medium-small chunks \par >>2 cup red wine \par >>2 cup red wine vinegar (white or cider will do) \par >>1-1/2 feet of fresh horseradish root, peeled and cut into slivers \par >>1-1/2 TB salt \par >>1 tsp whole anise seed \par >>1 tsp whole caraway seed \par >>2 tsp whole coriander seed \par \par \par \par >>NOTE: The horseradish wasn't strong enough for me. Next time i will \par >>food process it. \par > \par >>Anahita \par > \par >This is the recipe I use too although I use prepared horseradish which gave \par >it quite a nice bite. This is the recipe to which I was referring when I \par >mentioned I also added the greens on occasion. \par >Olwen \par \par \par }\pard\plain \ltrpar\s18\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0 \rtlch\fcs1 \af2\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f2\fs20\lang1033\langfe1033\cgrid\langnp1033\langfenp1033 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\insrsid656717 Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 19:24:58 +0000 \par From: ekoogler1 at comcast.net \par Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Beets (was Eggplant) \par To: Cooks within the SCA \par \par I just found references to them in Apicius...there are several recipes \par for beets including one that uses them as part of a stuffing for a \par suckling pig. The index also references beetroot...but the listings \par are the same as for beet, so I have to assume that it's the red root \par veggie we all know and love. ;-) \par \par So, given that, I have to assume that it was at least known on the \par continent...in southern Europe. I found information about it in \par Platina, among the recipes. I don't know how well it was known in \par northern Europe. \par \par Kiri \par }\pard\plain \ltrpar\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0 \rtlch\fcs1 \af4\afs24 \ltrch\fcs0 \f4\fs24\lang1033\langfe1033\cgrid\langnp1033\langfenp1033 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\fs20\insrsid656717 \par \par }\pard\plain \ltrpar\s18\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0 \rtlch\fcs1 \af2\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f2\fs20\lang1033\langfe1033\cgrid\langnp1033\langfenp1033 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\insrsid656717 Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 19:26:27 +0000 \par From: ekoogler1 at comcast.net \par Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Beets (was Eggplant) \par To: Cooks within the SCA \par \par Just read the end of your message. The roots themelves are used...it \par would be kind of hard to grate leaves...I think directions for that \par would be to chop finely. No indication is given for the color of the \par beet but, as red is what is available to me, I use red. \par \par Kiri \par > I was browsing the Florilegium and found this on beets: \par > http://www.florilegium.org/files/FOOD-VEGETABLES/vegetables-msg.html \par >> Curiously the red beet with a bulbous \par >> root was new to Gerard; common beets were white or \par >> yellow and eaten as greens. (Even in the 16th, beets \par >> often were called by their French name.) \par >> Alysoun \par > \par > Were they just new to England, but known in France and \par > elsewhere, or a new variety? \par > \par > Do Lumdardy tarts use red beets or white/yellow beets? \par > It doesn't sound like it means to use the greens. \par > \par > Ranvaig \par }\pard\plain \ltrpar\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0 \rtlch\fcs1 \af4\afs24 \ltrch\fcs0 \f4\fs24\lang1033\langfe1033\cgrid\langnp1033\langfenp1033 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\fs20\insrsid656717 \par \par }\pard\plain \ltrpar\s18\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0 \rtlch\fcs1 \af2\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f2\fs20\lang1033\langfe1033\cgrid\langnp1033\langfenp1033 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\insrsid656717 Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 12:03:09 -0800 \par From: david friedman \par Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Beets (was Eggplant) \par To: Cooks within the SCA Message-ID: \par \par "I just checked the version in Madge Lorwin's book, and it also says \par to "chop the beets". I have always made the pie using the roots, as \par se indicates in her redaction. She bases hers on statements from \par Gerard's "Herbal". The first part, which she quotes, acknowledges \par the use of the leaves in salads, even giving a recipe for doing so. \par Then she quotes him as saying, "But what might be made f the red and \par beautiful root (which is to be preferred before the leaves, as well \par in beautie as in goodness) I refer unto the curious and cunning \par cooke, who no doubt when hee had the view there, and is assured that \par it is both good and wholesome, will makethereof many and divers \par dishes, both faire and good." Lorwin goes on to state, "And beets \par were used in mnay ways by cooks, including beet-root salads, both hot \par and cold."" \par \par I would take the quote from Gerard as implying that people aren't \par using the roots or not very much--it sounds as though he is saying \par that they should be. "... who no doubt when ... will make thereof." \par \par Gerard's Herbal was first published in 1597, with various later \par editions; do you know which version that passage first appeared in? \par Its in the 1633 edition--which at least suggests that eating the \par root was still uncommon then, although it might have just been left \par in through inertia. \par \par Checking some webbed extracts from the 1633 edition, we have: \par \par "Beta alba. White Beets. \par ...the white Bete is a cold and moist pot-herbe...Being eaten when \par it is boyled, it quickly descendeth... especially being taken with \par the broth wherein it is sodden..." \par \par Beta rubra, Beta rubra Romana. Red Beets, Red Roman Beets. \par \par ...The great and beautiful Beet last desribed may be vsed in winter \par for a salad herbe, with vinegar, oyle, and salt, and is not onely \par pleasant to the taste, but also delightfull to the eye. \par \par The greater red Beet or Roman Beet, boyled and eaten with oyle, \par vineger and pepper, is a most excellent nd delicate sallad: but what \par might be made of the red and beautifull root ... \par \par I take this to mean that white beets were used exclusively as beet \par greens, red beets primarily, and Gerard is urging that the root ought \par to be eaten. \par \par Is there any reason to assume the recipe is calling for red beets? It \par looks from Anne Wilson's comments as though they were a novelty in \par Elizabethan times--and she has a reference to Digby referring to \par beets where they are pretty clearly the greens. \par \par A web search turned up this--from the Floreligium: \par \par Take Beets, chop them small, and put to them grated bread and cheese, \par and mingle them wel in the chopping, take a few Corrans, and a dish of \par sweet Butter, & melt it then stir al these in the Butter, together with \par three yolks of Eggs, ynamon, ginger, and sugar, and make your Tart as \par large as you will, and fill it with the stuff, bake it and serve it in. \par \tab --John Partridge, The good Huswifes Handmaide for the Kitchin \par \par That's from Dining with William Shakespeare, by Madge Lorwin. \par Partridg is 1594--i.e. a little before the earliest edition of \par Gerard. There is nothing there that implies the roots are being \par used--and if the red beets are new, and Gerard is trying to persuade \par people to use the roots forty years later, there should be if that' \par what is intended. \par \par The dangers of relying on secondary sources. \par -- \par }\pard\plain \ltrpar\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0 \rtlch\fcs1 \af4\afs24 \ltrch\fcs0 \f4\fs24\lang1033\langfe1033\cgrid\langnp1033\langfenp1033 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\fs20\insrsid656717 David/Cariadoc \par \par \par }\pard\plain \ltrpar\s18\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0 \rtlch\fcs1 \af2\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f2\fs20\lang1033\langfe1033\cgrid\langnp1033\langfenp1033 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6 \ltrch\fcs0 \loch\af6\hich\af6\dbch\af266\insrsid656717 \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 Date: Su\hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 n, 1 Feb 2004 16:16:34 -0800 \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 From: david friedman \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Beets and backfiles was Beets \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 To: Cooks within the SCA \par \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 >The 1658 edition of The French gardiner \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 >instructing how to culti\hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 vate all sorts of \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 >fruit-trees and herbs for the garden specifies--- \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 >THE French Gardiner. > Section > SECT. IV. \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 > ... SECT. IV.: Of Roots. / THe Red \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 >Beet,[Roots. Parsenp.] or Roman Par|snep, as the \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 >greatest, sha ... \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 >T\hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 HE French Gardiner. > Section > SECT. V. \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 > ... CT. V.: Of all sorts of Pot-hearbs. / WE \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 >will begin with the white Beet or Leeks as being \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 >the greatest of all the Pot-hearbs, ... \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 >... ore spent then of any of the \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 >rest.[Beet-leeks] / The white Beet or\hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 Beet-Card \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 >(for so some will call it in imitation of the \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 >Picards, ... \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 >... Spring, which will furnish you with Leeks \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 >very early. / There is a Red Beet[red Beets.] if \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 >you desire to have of them, for Curio ... \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 >SECT. V. \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 >... with Leeks very early. /\hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 There is a Red \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 >Beet[red Beets.] if you desire to have of them, \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 >for Curiosity rather ... \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 >... a second dry|ing, lest it become musty; for \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 >being of a spongy substance, as the Red Beets \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 >are, it will continue a long time moyst. / \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 > ... e a long time\hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 moyst. / There is another \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 >sort of Beets, which is called Oracke,[Orache.] \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 >very agree| ... \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 > \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 > \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 >Evelyn helped translate this from the French by the way. \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 > \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 >The 1653 Pharmacop|ia Londinensis, or, The London dispensatory says \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 >A CATALOGUE OF THE SIMPLES CONDUCING TO THE DISPENSATORY. > ROOTS. \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 >* ... nd red; as for black Beets I have no|thing \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 >to say, I doubt they are as rare as black Swans. \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 >The red Beet root boyled and preserved in \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 >Vinegar, makes a fine cool, pleasing, cle\hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 nsing, \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 >digesting sawce. \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 >The 1649 A physicall directory says the same. \par \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 ... \par \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 >It appears that both are mentioned at least in the 1600's. \par \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 So far as the sources you give, the earliest cite \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 that is clearly about eating the root is in 1649. \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 There are refe\hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 rences to red beet earlier than \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 that--but it's clear from Gerard that it was used \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 as a green too. Gerard, writing at the earliest \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 in 1597 and perhaps in 1633, is trying to \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 persuade cooks to try using the beet root. \par \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 So I don't see how one can argue tha\hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 t \par \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 ... \par \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 >If a housewife in the 1590's encountered this recipe, my guess is that \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 >she might use either depending upon local customs and produce available. \par \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 So far as the evidence available to us is \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 concerned, a housewife in the very late 1590's \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 might perhaps have read Gerard and think of \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 eating beet roots as an interesting idea. But she \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 would take it for granted that a recipe which \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 simply specified "beets" referred to the \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 greens--because, in all the examples we have from \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 that early, that's w\hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 hat it appears to mean. \par \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 And this particular recipe is from several years before Gerard published. \par \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 It isn't as if the root and the greens are close \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 substitutes, so that one would naturally think of \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 using one instead of the other. \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 -- \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 David/Cariadoc \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 http\hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 ://www.daviddfriedman.com/ \par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af6 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\insrsid656717 \par \par Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 18:02:31 -0500 \par From: Johnna Holloway \par To: Cooks within the SCA \par Subject: [ca-cooks] Beets and backfiles was Beets \par \par According to OED---Beet was \par \par A plant or genus of plants (N.O. Chenopodiace\u230\'e6), having, in cultivation, \par a succulent root much used for food, and also for yielding sugar. There \par are two species, the Common or Red Beet (Beta vulgaris), found wild on \par the British coasts, and cultivated in several varieties, both as an \par esculent, and as an ornamental foliage plant, and the White Beet (B. \par cicla), chiefly used in the production of sugar. Formerly almost always \par spoken of in plural `beets,' like beans, pease, greens, etc. Now usu. in \par sing. form, but the pl. form is still current in the U.S. \par \par * C. 1000 Sax. Leehd. II. 226 \u222\'de\u225\'e1s wyrta sindon.;\u233\'e9a\u240\'f0 beeatra, b\u233\'e9te \par and mealwe; \par * 1398 Trevisa Barth. De P.R. xvii. xxii. (1495) 616 Men may graffe \par on a bete stocke as men doon on a Caustocke. \par * A. 1400 Cov. Myst. 22 Erbys and gresse, both beetes and rake. \par * C. 1440 Promp. Parv, 34 Betys herbe, beta. \par * 1551 Turner Herbal. (1568) F iij a, There are twoo kyndes of \par Betes, the white bete whyche is called sicula, and blake betes. \par \par ------------ \par Nancy suggested: Your best bet might be to loo at other receipts in \par that same cookbook, since if you see a list of "greens" (i.e. spinach, \par sorrel) and beets, my assumption is that the beet greens are meant. \par Sometimes the author will refer to "beetroots" specifically. But as \par "beets" are listed by theselves, I think they could be interpreted \par either way. \par Nancy Kiel \par \par I did a browse through the Stuart Press transcription of The Good \par Huswifes Handmaide and didn't find any other mention of beets. So--- \par the text is no help. \par \par So what do other texts say-- \par I dd some other searching-- and it is here that the full text version \par of EEBO is proving valuable for one can search under just "beet" or \par "beets" and find references such as this--- \par \par Estienne, Charles, 1504-ca. 1564. [The French original is 1560's.] \par Title: Mison rustique, or The countrey farme 1616 lists "beet" in four \par scattered places and "beets" under 30--- these include: \par \par CHAP. XVIII.: Of Beets and Blites, white and red.: _BEets,[Beets.] as \par well th ... \par ... CHAP. XVIII.: Of Beets and Blites, white andred.: \par _BEets,[Beets.] as well the vvhite as the blacke and red, vvhich is c \par ... \par ... : in respect whereof, I could aduise the gardiner not gather any \par seeds of the beets to sow, but such as the beet shall bring forth the \par third for of such see ... \par ... hal bring forth the third for of such seed there grow verie faire \par and goodly beets. / If you would make choyce of faire beets, chuse \par rather the white than either the ... \par ... for of such seed there grow verie faire and goodly beets. / If you \par would make choce of faire beets, chuse rather the white than either the \par lacke or red, as being the fair ... \par \par THE SECOND BOOKE OF THE COVNTRIE HOVSE. > OF GARDENS. > CHAP. XXIIII. \par \bullet ... h: and for the taking away of the same, you must eat a raw Beane \par by and by after, orthe ribbe of a Beet rosted in ashes, or some \par Smallage or greene Parsley: or which is better, if you loue Garlicke, \par ... \par THE SEVENTH BOOKE OF THE COVNTRIE FARME. > Of Hawking. > CHAP. LVIII. \par \bullet ... day alwaies betwixt, that is to say, one day, and not theother. \par Seeing to it, that you giue her a beet leafe, or some other, vpon the \par day that you shall giue her pure water to drinke. The same remed ... \par \par Evelyn, John, 1620-1706. \par Title: Kalendarium hortense, 1666 \par speaks of in March--- \par Thyme, &c. / Sow in the begnning Endive, Succory, Leeks, Radish, Beets, \par Chard-Beet, Scorzonera, Parsnips, Skirrets, Parsley, Sorrel, Bugloss, \par Borrage, Chervil, Sellery, Smalladge ... \par \par so one sees beets and Chard-beet. \par \par The 1658 edition of The French gardiner instructing how to cultvate all \par sorts of fruit-trees and herbs for the garden specifies--- \par THE French Gardiner. > Section > SECT. IV. \par ... SECT. IV.: Of Roots. / THe Red Beet,[Roots. Parsenp.] or Roman \par Par|snep, as the greatest, sha ... \par THE French Gardiner. > Section > SECT.V. \par ... CT. V.: Of all sorts of Pot-hearbs. / WE will begin with the white \par Beet or Leeks as being the greatest of all the Pot-hearbs, ... \par ... ore spent then of any of the rest.[Beet-leeks] / The white Beet or \par Beet-Card (for so some will call it in imittion of the Picards, ... \par ... Spring, which will furnish you with Leeks very early. / There is a \par Red Beet[red Beets.] if you desire to have of them, for Curio ... \par SECT. V. \par ... with Leeks very early. / There is a Red Beet[red Beets.] if you \par desire to have f them, for Curiosity rather ... \par ... a second dry|ing, lest it become musty; for being of a spongy \par substance, as the Red Beets are, it will continue a long time moyst. / \par ... e a long time moyst. / There is another sort of Beets, which is \par called Oracke[Orache.] very agree| ... \par \par \par Evelyn helped translate this from the French by the way. \par \par The 1653 Pharmacop\u339\'9cia Londinensis, or, The London dispensatory says \par A CATALOGUE OF THE SIMPLES CONDUCING TO THE DISPENSATORY. > ROOTS. \par \bullet ... nd red; as for black Beets Ihave no|thing to say, I doubt they \par are as rare as black Swans. The red Beet root boyled and preserved in \par Vinegar, makes a fine cool, pleasing, clensing, digesting sawce. \par The 1649 A physicall directory says the same. \par \par Woolley, Hannah, fl. 1670. \par The quee-like closet; or, Rich cabinet of 1670 \par calls for beets in \par CLVI. A Friday Pie with out Fish or Flesh.: Wash a good quantity of \par green Beets, and pluck out the middle string, then chop them small; with \par two or three ripe Apples well rel ... \par and in CCXX. To mae boiled Sallads. \par ... n more Butter and a little Salt, so serve them to the Table, thus \par you may do Lettuce or Spinage, or Beets. / ... \par -------------------------- \par It appears that both are mentioned at least in the 1600's. \par \par \par What's interesting is that this same discussion went on back in the mid- \par late 1990's on the list and is set out in Stefan's files. I don't know \par that we will ever reach a definative answer now any more than people did \par then. \par \par If a housewife in the 1590's encountered this recipe, my guess is that \par she might use either depending upon local customs and produce available. \par I see this as being a great project for an A&S entry for someone--- \par take the recipe and make it in a variety of ways perhaps in 4 inch tarts \par with varying cheeses, using both the leaves or the roots. \par \par Johnnae llyn Lewis \par }\pard\plain \ltrpar\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0 \rtlch\fcs1 \af4\afs24 \ltrch\fcs0 \f4\fs24\lang1033\langfe1033\cgrid\langnp1033\langfenp1033 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\fs20\insrsid656717 \par \par }\pard\plain \ltrpar\s18\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0 \rtlch\fcs1 \af2\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f2\fs20\lang1033\langfe1033\cgrid\langnp1033\langfenp1033 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\insrsid656717 Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 18:28:55 -0800 (PST) \par From: Huette von Ahrens \par Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Beets (was Eggplant) \par To: Cooks within the SCA \par \par Here is what Alan Davidson says about "beetroot" \par in the Oxford Companion to Food: \par \par Beetroot, one of four useful forms of the \par verstile plant 'Beta vulgaris'. The two which \par provide vegetables for human consumption are the \par red, globular roots of the beetroot itself, and \par its leaves, and the stalks and leaves of chard. \par Mangelwurzel, treated with beetroot in this \par entry, is also cultivatd for its edible root, \par but used for animal fodder. The fourth form is \par sugar beet, whose roots are an important source \par of sugar. \par \par All these cultivated forms are descended from the \par sea beet, 'B. maritima', a wild seashore plant \par growing around the Mediterraean and Atlantic \par coasts of Europe and N. Africa. This has only a \par small root, but its leaves and stems are \par sometimes eaten. Early Greek writers such as \par Theophrastus referred to the cultivation of this \par plant. By about 300 BC, there were varieties \par with edble roots. \par \par Red beet, known as Roman beet, and yellow-rooted \par varieties spread through Europe and Asia in \par succeeding centuries. \par \par In Europe, a yellow kind developed into fodder \par beet. In Germany, it was known as Mangoldwurzel \par (beet root), which was corrupte to Mangelwurzel \par (root for time of need) because it would only be \par eaten when nothing else was available. \par \par However, until well after medieval times, beet \par roots remained long and relatively thin. The \par first mention of a swollen root seems to have \par been in a otanical work of the 1550s and what is \par recognized as the prototype of the modern \par beetroot, the 'Beta Roman' of Daleschamp, dates \par back only to 1587. \par \par In Britain the common beets were originally all \par light in colour. The red beet, when introduced \par in the 17t century, was described by Gerard \par (1633) with some enthusiasm ('a most excellent \par and delicate sallad'). It soon found its way \par into the recipe books. Evelyn (1699) declared \par that cold slices of boiled red beetroot (such as \par are still familiar to everyone i Britain) made \par 'a grateful winter Sallet', while adding that it \par was 'by French and Italians contriv'd into \par curious figures to adorn their Sallets". The \par anonymous but authoritative authors of 'Adam's \par Luxury and Eve's Cookery'(1744) gave two recipes, \par one fr frying red beets as a garnish for carp \par and other fish, and the other 'To make the \par Crimson Biscuit of red Beet-roots'. \par \par The scarlet colour of beetroot is due to the \par combination of a purple pigment, betacyanin, and \par a yellow one, betaxanthin. Yellow rootshave \par little of the former. The pigments are much more \par stable than most red plant colour, and are \par sometimes extracted and used as edible food \par colourings. \par \par A cultivated beetroot may be as small as an \par orange or as large as a grapefruit. Although \par red, globuar varieties are dominant, there are \par some with flattened tops, some with golden or \par even white flesh, and some shaped like thick \par carrots. Prolonged cooking makes the colour \par fade. When whole beets are boiled, the skin is \par left on to avoid damage to the cels and letting \par the colour leak out. \par \par Huette \par \par }\pard\plain \ltrpar\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0 \rtlch\fcs1 \af4\afs24 \ltrch\fcs0 \f4\fs24\lang1033\langfe1033\cgrid\langnp1033\langfenp1033 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\fs20\insrsid656717 \par }\pard\plain \ltrpar\s18\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0 \rtlch\fcs1 \af2\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f2\fs20\lang1033\langfe1033\cgrid\langnp1033\langfenp1033 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6 \ltrch\fcs0 \loch\af6\hich\af6\dbch\af266\insrsid656717 \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 17:01:51 -0800 \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 From: david friedman \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Beets (was Eggplant) \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 To: Cooks within the SCA \par \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 Kiri asks: \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 >So are you saying that the pie should be made with white beet roots, \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 >red beet roots or white or red greens? \par \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 I am saying that I think it should be made with beet greens--white \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 more likely, red possible. As I read Gerard, using the\hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 root was a \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 novel idea at the time, so although a cook might possibly have done \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 it, a recipe that intended the root rather than the leaf would say \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 so. Clearly Gerard regards use of the greens, both white and red, as \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 a common practice. The red seem to b\hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 e coming into England in the 16th \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 century, so I don't know how common they were at the end of it. \par \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 >I understand about the problems with secondary sources, but, at the \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 >time, it was all I had. Not making excuses, mind you, but you go \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 >with what you have. \par \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 Of course. My point isn't that you never use secondary sources, just \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 that you have to be aware of the risks of doing so. Moderns think of \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 "beet" as primarily meaning the root, so are likely to bias their \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 interpretation accordingly. \par \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 >According to the bibliography, Ms. Lorwin used the 1597 edition of the herbal. \par \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 Useful information. Then I think we can assume, absent further \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 information, that the passage is in the 1597 edition. The fact that \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 it was still in the 1633 edition suggest\hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 s that using the beet root \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 was still a somewhat novel idea then--on the other hand, it might \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 just be a matter of not having bothered to change that particular \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 passage for the new edition. \par \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 >It is, I believe, reasonable to think that the red variety was \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 >certainly known when Partridge wrote his recipe. \par \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 Yes. \par \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 >And, if that's the case, even though it may not have been a common \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 >thing, if he meant to use the root, it may well have been that it \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 >was the red beet...since, as you point out, the part of the \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 white \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 >that was most commonly used was the greens. \par \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 But we don't have any evidence that he meant to use the root, do we? \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 All he says is: \par \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 "Take Beets, chop them small, and ..." \par \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 That could be the greens as easily as the roots. Since we have no \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 evidence he intended the roots we have no reason to assume that he \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 meant red beets--although he could have. \par \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 >I'm not trying to keep the discussion going, but rather to make sure \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 >that the recipe I've used for years...and that folks here in \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 >Atlantia kn\hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 ow and love, is accurate. So far, I've not seen anything \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 >that makes me think that the way I've been doing it is wrong...or \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 >out of period. \par \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 "Out of period" is tricky. My guess is that, by 1601, someone, \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 somewhere in Europe, had cooked red beet roots--\hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 probably earlier than \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 that. Gerard probably had--I wouldn't think he would recommend them \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 without trying them. \par \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 But the question isn't whether beet roots are period, it's whether \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 Lumbard Tarts using beet roots is a period recipe. I think the answer \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 to \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 that question is "probably not." The recipe doesn't specify the \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 root, the use of the root seems to be an unusual practice at that \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 point, judging by Gerard's comment, so there is no reason to think \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 the root is intended and some reason to think it isn't. \par \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 I should add that I also think the Lorwin recipe is evidence that she \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 is not a very reliable secondary source--although, to her credit, she \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 did give the information on which she based her conclusion. She has \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 chosen to interpret the recipe as a modern c\hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 ook would--and supported \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 that interpretation with evidence that, carefully read, has precisely \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 the opposite implication. \par \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 It would be interesting to know what the dates of her "And beets \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 were used in many ways by cooks, including beet-root salads, both hot \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 and cold" are. Does she say? If she actually has lots of recipes that \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 are clearly beet-root and refer to it as "beet" and are as early as \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 the 1590's, that would provide support for he\hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 r position. On the other \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 hand, if those turn out to be recipes from the second half of the \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 17th century, it would be a further reason to distrust her. And, \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 despite the title of her book, I believe quite a lot of the recipes \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 are from mid-17th century so\hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 urces. \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 -- \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 David/Cariadoc \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 http://www.daviddfriedman.com/ \par \par \par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af6 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\insrsid656717 Date: Tu, 3 Feb 2004 10:49:22 -0800 \par From: david friedman \par Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Beets and backfiles was Beets \par To: Cooks within the SCA \par \par Huette writes: \par > david friedman \par > wrote: \par \par ... \par \par >>>> From Marx Rumpolt, 1581: \par >>> \par >>> 7. Green salad/ that is small and young/ red \par >>> beets cut small/ and tossed thereover/ when the \par >> salad is prepared/ and the red beets are \par >>> cooked and cooled. \par > \par > I am of two minds over this recipe. It does say \par > green salad. However, the last part talks about \par > cooking and cooling the beets, which I don't \par > think has to be done with the greens Why cook \par > something that doesn't need cooking? To me, \par > this indicates the root, which does need cooking. \par \par C. Anne Wilson says "The Romans grew beet, mallow and orache for the \par seek of their green leaves, which were boiled in pottages ... ." Le \par Menager has "Take your cress and parboil it with a handful of \par chopped beet leaves, and fry them in oil, " Al Baghdadi has cooked \par beet leaves in Adasiya. \par \par >>> 21. Take white beet (according to Hopf #378) \par >>> stems/ peel and poach then in water/ prepare \par >> it with oil/ vinegar and salt. \par > \par > Again, two minds. It says stems, but it also says to peel. \par \par Perhaps the inner stems taste better? I would take it that "stem" \par isn't quite the same thing as "greens"--it's just the rib part of the \par greens. \par \par >>> 29. Red bet salad/ when they are cooked/ so cut \par >>> them small/ long or diced/ season it with oil/ \par >>> vinegar and salt/ may make it sweet or sour. \par > \par > This is more clearly the beet root, IMHO. \par \par I think you would have to know how the word translated "diced" is used in other recipes. One could read that as "cut the leaves into \par long portions or chop them to dice sized pieces." \par \par >>> 39. Take sugar (sugar beet!)/ season it and \par >>> scrape it/ so they turn white/ poach then \par >>> in water/ and cool/ season it with vineer/ oil \par >>> and salt. You can also serve them raw/ if they \par >>> are clean and well peeled or scraped. \par > \par > To me, this indicates the root also. \par \par Again, I don't think you can tell. Does anyone know if sugar beet \par root is edible raw? \par \par >>> 3. Red beets presrved with small cut \par >>> horseradish/ anise/ coriander/ and a little \par >>> caraway/ special if the beets are cut/ marinated \par >>> in half wine and half vinegar. \par > \par > This is a very traditional German way of \par > preserving beet roots. In reading this, I see \par >the ancestor of the current modern German recipes \par > for serving beet roots. \par \par Certainly possible. \par -- \par }\pard\plain \ltrpar\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0 \rtlch\fcs1 \af4\afs24 \ltrch\fcs0 \f4\fs24\lang1033\langfe1033\cgrid\langnp1033\langfenp1033 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\fs20\insrsid656717 David/Cariadoc \par \par \par }\pard\plain \ltrpar\s18\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0 \rtlch\fcs1 \af2\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f2\fs20\lang1033\langfe1033\cgrid\langnp1033\langfenp1033 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\insrsid656717 Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 14:21:32 -0800 \par From: "Lorenz Wieland" \par Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Beets and backfiles was Beets \par To: "Cooks within the CA" \par \par david friedman wrote: \par > Again, I don't think you can tell. Does anyone know if sugar beet \par > root is edible raw? \par \par It' edible raw, but not very appealing in either taste or texture. \par \par -Lorenz \par }\pard\plain \ltrpar\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0 \rtlch\fcs1 \af4\afs24 \ltrch\fcs0 \f4\fs24\lang1033\langfe1033\cgrid\langnp1033\langfenp1033 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\fs20\insrsid656717 \par \par }\pard\plain \ltrpar\s18\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0 \rtlch\fcs1 \af2\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f2\fs20\lang1033\langfe1033\cgrid\langnp1033\langfenp1033 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\insrsid656717 Date: Tue , 3 Feb 2004 17:29:14 -0500 \par From: "Barbara Benson" \par Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Beets \par To: "Cooks within the SCA" \par \par I have a bit of a thought regarding this whole beet leaf/beet root \par discussion. But unfortunately I cannot quote exactly what I want. A couple \par of days ao I was at a friends house perusing her copy of The Domonstroi and \par there was information on beets. \par \par In the section on gardening where he is describing how to plant a garden he \par begins with building a wall and then planting beets all along the perimeter \par of the garden. He tells you to harvest the greens year round and give some \par of them to the poor. At the end of the section he tells you to dig the beet \par roots and pickle them along with your other veggies. \par \par If anyone has a copy of The Domonstroi handy lease check up on me and see \par if I remember correctly. If you are feeling rambunctious please post the \par pertinent info to the list. \par \par I believe that this implies that both the beet root and the beet leaves were \par eaten, but that (at least in Eastern Europe they would not have eaten the \par beet root until the end of the season when there were no more greens \par forthcoming. So there is the possibility that both interpretations of the \par recipe could be correct, but that the root would only be used if you were \par peparing the tart late in the season. During the production time of the \par year it would probably be the greens. \par }\pard \ltrpar\s18\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0\pararsid656717 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\insrsid656717\charrsid656717 \par --Serena da Riva \par }\pard\plain \ltrpar\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0\pararsid656717 \rtlch\fcs1 \af4\afs24 \ltrch\fcs0 \f4\fs24\lang1033\langfe1033\cgrid\langnp1033\langfenp1033 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\fs20\insrsid656717\charrsid656717 \par \par }\pard\plain \ltrpar\s18\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0\pararsid656717 \rtlch\fcs1 \af2\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f2\fs20\lang1033\langfe1033\cgrid\langnp1033\langfenp1033 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\insrsid656717\charrsid656717 Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 10:45:05 -0500 \par From: "Phlip" \par Subject: Fw: [spca-wascaerfrig] Alexy, please- was Fw: [Sca-cooks] \par \tab Beets \par To: "SCA-Cooks" \par \par OK, Alexy has straightened up some information about beets, greens vs roots, \par in the Domestroi- see below. He's a Russian, in Moscow, with a great \par interest in SCA and historical cookery- I've cited him before. With any \par luck, we'll be bringing him to Pennsic ;-) \par \par One thing to keep in mind, though, is that the Domestroi is pretty late- \par past most of our period- also, that roots tend to be eaten much more in \par Northern areas than greens do. \par \par He does, however, include a transliteration of the words for the greens \par And the roots, so that in the Russian the two are quite distinct. \par \par Saint Phlip, \par CoDoLDS \par \par ----- Original Message ----- \par From: "Alexey Kiyaikin aka Posadnik" \par To: \par Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 10:28 AM \par Subject: Re: [spca-wascaerfrig] Alexy, please- was Fw: [Sca-cooks] Beets \par \par >> Any chance you could get access to a copy of the Domestroi in Russian, and \par >> check it for its comments on beets? We're having a long conversation on \par >> whether the beet root or the greens are referenced in various recipes, and a \par >> closer look at the Domestroi might be of some help. If you can't find \par >> a copy, we'll try to find you a copy. \par \par The Domostroy really means beet. ROOT. Only root. But the thing with \par "root-fruits" is that practically the edible part does not end at ground \par level. When (those time "when" started with first roots in June and ended in \par about september when all the roots were picked up so no need to economize) \par there was the need to use all the edible part of the plant (say, early beet \par was used in Borsch almost wholly), they added the stalk. Only the stalk, up \par to the point where the leaf starts. The stalk has the same taste as the \par root, and contains most of nutrition the root possesses. The "beet greens" \par was NEVER considered food, though they have nothing disgusting in taste. \par Just no special taste. Grass, that's all. Only Ukrainian Borsch with early \par beets requires Botva (greens) of beets added, though several times I met the \par reminder that only stalks are needed. My mom used the whole tops with \par leaves, no special taste. but we are still alive. :-) \par \par And when we look at other "root-fruits", we see a good example with \par turnips. The stalk also tastes like the root, I used to add it to stews, \par same thing - the down part tastes like the root, the upper part with leaves \par taste empty. \par \par Also, there's a very popular classical tale "A man and a Bear", in which \par the bear in spring demanded to give him a half of all crops. So, the man \par promised to give him the roots (i.e. the underground half), and sowed wheat. \par The following year the bear came again and said he was no fool, and would \par take tops that time. The man agreed and sowed beets, fooling the bear for \par another time. \par \par Ergo: \par beets is really roots only. Only in hungry years (but for Russia that \par meant about every second year or two years of the three) they could eat beet \par stalks along with the root. That does not apply to Borsch that traditionally \par required some tops along with the beet root. Though, other plants, having \par same edible parts (radish and turnip stalks are recommended for spring \par salads in modern cookbooks), were never used in traditional food other than \par "hungry year dishes" along with nettle, goose-foot, etc. As Domostroy never \par considered a poor family, it could not in the least mean beet "greens". \par \par >>> So far as Domostroi is concerned, the passage doesn't specify beet \par >>> root. The relevant bit is "Pickle cabbages, beets, and cucumbers in \par >>> the fall." Cabbages are greens, so although it's certainly possible \par >>> that what are being pickled are the roots of the beets, It could also \par >>> be the last of the greens. \par \par The Ukrainian dish - pickled beetROOTS - requires having beet roots, not \par greens. This is traditionally the source of beet for Borsch, as many \par cookbooks mention. If the beet is pickled, no vinegar to save the red colour \par of the soup is needed. Only the roots are pickled. I read several recipes, \par they were the same for at least the last several centuries. \par \par >>> On the other hand, the text refers several times to "beet greens" but \par >>> speaks of pickling beets. That might be a deliberate difference--it \par >>> would be interesting to have someone who reads Russian check the \par >>> original. \par \par When the text speaks of greens, it speaks about greens. Botva, in Russian. \par When the text means beetroot, it says beets, Svekla. All the time they mean \par something other than the root, they directly say it, and never mean tops \par using the general word "beet". \par \par Though, I'll bring my copy of Domostroy to the computer while working and \par answering my mail tomorrow, so you will have some citing from a Russian \par edition. \par \par Bye, Alex. \par }\pard\plain \ltrpar\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0\pararsid656717 \rtlch\fcs1 \af4\afs24 \ltrch\fcs0 \f4\fs24\lang1033\langfe1033\cgrid\langnp1033\langfenp1033 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\fs20\insrsid656717\charrsid656717 \par \par }\pard\plain \ltrpar\s18\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0\pararsid656717 \rtlch\fcs1 \af2\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f2\fs20\lang1033\langfe1033\cgrid\langnp1033\langfenp1033 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\insrsid656717\charrsid656717 Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 12:4:29 -0500 \par From: Johnna Holloway \par Subject: [Sca-cooks] More on Beets and Beet Roots \par To: Cooks within the SCA \par \par More on Beets and Beet Roots From Johnnae llyn Lewis \par \par As promised here is more material on the topic of beets and beetroots. \par This has taken longer than expected but has proven rather interesting. I \par will not make reference to the material already contained in the \par Florilegium files on beets and what Gerald said about them in his \par editions of his Herbal as well as what others have said in the past few \par years on various lists. See the file \par http://www.florilegium.org/files/FOOD-VEGETABLES/beets-msg.rtf. \par \par The question I set out to answer would be references to eating the roots \par of beets prior to the publication of The Good Huswifes Handmaide for the \par Kitchen and its recipe for \u8220\'93Lumbardy tartes.\u8221\'94 There were also questions \par raised as to the colos of the beets being raised at that time. It \par should be noted that while there are earlier English recipes for such \par foods as \lquote leche lombard,\rquote \lquote Lombard stew,\rquote \lquote Crustard Lombard,\rquote and \par \lquote Fritters Lombard\rquote , I have not found an earlier English version of the \par \u8220\'93lubardy tartes\u8221\'94 recipe as given in the GHwHm. It also does not appear \par in any of the editions of Partridge that I have examined. \par \par Beets are not mentioned in a number of the more common dietaries, so I \par turned to a selection of the herbals, husbandry, and gardening books to \par see what can be learned. It took a great deal of time to both identify \par possible items to examine and once located to actually examine the works \par online. Many of these works lack indexes or tables which made the \par finding of relevant sections tie consuming. The actual downloading and \par adjustment of the images for reading was also very laborious. \par \par Earlier references than 1600 include\emdash \par \par 1548 \par \par William Turner. The Names of Herbes in Greke, \u8230\'85..etc. from 1548. STC \par (2nd ed.) / 24359 \par \par Writes of beets: \par \par Bta \par \par Beta named in greeke Seution a Teution (the Greek is hard to decipher \par from the online copy) \par \par Is called in Englishe a Bete, in Duche Mangolt, in French poree, ou \par Jotte. It is called of Plenie and Theophrastus, Sicula. Betes growe in \par England, as farre a I knowe in gardines only. \par \par 1562 \par \par William Turner. The Seconde Part of Vuilliam Turners Herball (STC (2nd \par ed.) /24366) includes illustrations for Beta Nigra and Beta Candida. He \par writes: \par \par \u8220\'93The brothe of the roote and leaves scoureth away scurse and scales ad \par nittes out of the head.\u8221\'94 He then continues to list a number of other \par things that this brothe does. \par \par Thomas Hill in the Mabey edition below gives the Greek as Sostion. This \par is an early and small work of William Turner and dates from before the \par first partof his \lquote Herbal\rquote of 1551. Turner is credited as being the \par earliest of the English born botanists. A religious Noncomformist, his \par books were banned and often burned during the reigns of both Henry VIII \par and Mary I. Part two of his \lquote Herbal\rquote was published in 162 and part \par three in 1568, shortly before his death. \par \par A generation later in 1574 one finds: \par \par Hill, Thomas. The Gardener\rquote s Labyrinth. 1577. 1652. [I own the hardcover \par edition edited with introduction by Richard Mabey and published by \par Oxford University Pres in 1987. Mabey used the 1652 edition which means \par that I had to go back to EEBO to read the earliest editions. I then read \par the hardcover edition to see about differences between the two. It was \par published at least six times in the first 75 years. It was alo not the \par first gardening book that Thomas Hill published. His A Most Briefe and \par Pleasaunte Treatyse came out in 1563 followed by The Profitable Art of \par Gardening in 1568.] \par \par The 1577 edition STC (2nd ed.) / 13485 is very hard to read due to print \par show throgh. The section on beets begins on page 13 of The Seconde \par Parte of The Gardener\rquote s Labyrinth. On page 15 Hill writes: \u8220\'93The roote of \par the Beete boyled in water, and\u8221\'94 ; the rest of the paragraph is \par undecipherable. \par \par The 1578 edition STC (2nd ed.)/ 13486 reveal that the rest of the \par sentence above should read: three or foure droppes of the licoure \par dropped into eares doth remove the rage and pain of the\rquote . He also \par mentions that \u8220\'93The juice of the rawe Beete, anointed on any bald place \par of the head, procureth the heae to growe, and killeth Lyse. The \par decoction of the leaves and rootes, doe also clense the head off Nittes \par and Dandrie.\u8221\'94 [Wouldn\rquote t the raw beet called for be the raw beet root?] \par \par In the OUP edition, Mabey notes in the glossary that red beetroot was \par just ariving in England from Italy at the time of Hill\rquote s original \par writings in the 1560\rquote s and 1570\rquote s. The white beetroot had been grown \par from Anglo-Saxon times. One thing that strikes one about Hill and his \par very complete and detailed account regarding the growing f beets is \par that he was very certain that they require \lquote much dung\rquote when growing. The \par adage that \u8220\'93The Beet rosted in embers, taketh away the stinking smell \par and savour of Garlike eaten, if the same be eaten upon or after the \par Garlike, as the Greek Menander hah noted.\u8221\'94 is again repeated here. It\rquote s \par interesting to read who he thought commonly ate beets. He writes, \u8220\'93The \par Beete more often eaten at poor mens tables, ought to be bestowed in a \par moist fat earth, and sowen at any season\u8230\'85.\u8221\'94 Mabey\rquote s text is abridged, so \par hedoes not give recipes nor does he cite much medical lore regarding \par them. For that information, one must return to EEBO. One wonders would \par the poor have ever required recipes telling them how to cook their \par beetes or what parts to eat? \par \par Heresbach, Conrad Heesbach\rquote s [1496-1576.] original work entitled Rei \par rusticae libri quatuor was translated into English as: \par Foure bookes of husbandry, collected by M. Conradus Heresbachius, \par Nevvely Englished, and increased, by Barnabe Googe. It first appeared in \par London in 157 [ STC (2nd ed.) / 13196 In 1578 it again appeared as: \par Foure bookes of husbandry, \u8230\'85.Newely Englished, and increased, by Barnabe \par Googe, Esquire, At London : Printed [by John Kingston] for Iohn VVight, \par 1578. [STC (2nd ed.) / 13197] This edition was by a diferent printer \par and although some records indicate it was substantially longer at 893 \par pages, this is a misprint and the edition is still only 193 pages. \par \par Heresbach says that one should sowe beetes at the same time as spinnage. \par He calls them a \u8220\'93common countey hearbe\u8221\'94 and says that \u8220\'93No Garden hearbe \par hath greater leaves, so that with due ordering, it growth like a yound \par tree. It is called Beta, because when it seedeth, it is (as Columella \par affirmeth) to the likenesse of the Greeke letter B. There bee two sorte \par of them, the white and the blacke\u8230\'85\u8221\'94 \par \par Dodoens, Rembert, 1517-1585. [English edition of the Cruydenboeck.] A \par Nievv herball, or historie of plantes \par \par 1578. STC (2nd ed.), 6984 Later editions are: 1586, 1595, 1600. \par \par Dodoens was Flemish and never lived nor visted England, but his \par Cruydenboeck of 1554 was translated by Henry Lyte from the French \par edition and became one of the standard texts of the Elizabethan age. \par Dodoens continued work on the Cruydenboeck, according to Frank J. \par Anderson, and added and changed i in rather piecemeal fashion until it \par \u8220\'93eventually metamorphosed into the Pemptades\u8221\'94 of 1583. (Although printed \par in English, the 1578 edition of Dodoens was actually printed in Antwerp. \par A number of the illustrations found in Dodoens, according to both \par Anderon and Eleanor Rohde, are adapted from or printed from the same \par woodblocks used to print the 1545 edition of Fuchs, so one finds similar \par illustrations when comparing editions of Fuchs and Dodoens.) \par \par On pp.549-551 the text of the 1578 English edition reads \par \par Of Beetes. Ch. V \par \par The Kindes. There be two sortes of Beetes, the white and red. Ind of the \par red sorte are two kindes, the one having leaves and roote lyke to the \par white Beete, the other hath a great thicke roote, and is a stranger \par amongst us. \par \par [the picturs then show and are labeled: \par \par Beta candida. White Beete Beta nigra. Redde Beete. \par \par On page 550: Beta nigra Romana. The Strange red Beete.] \par \par Dodoens/Lyte goes onto describe both the white and red beetes and then \par writes: \par \par The strange red Beete is like to thecommon red Beete, in leaves, \par stalkes, seede, proportion, & color, saving that his roote is much \par thicker, and shorter, very well like to a Rape or Turnep, but very redde \par within, and sweeter in tast then any of the other two sortes. \par \par The Place. They sowe th Beete in gardens amongst pot herbes. The \par strange redde Beete is to be founde planted in the gardens of \par herboristes. \par \par Dodoens/Lyte then includes much of the information that is given later \par by Langham, except he does state that \u8220\'93the rootes of Beetes put a \par suppositorie into the fundament\u8221\'94 which makes that clearer. \par The section ends with: \u8220\'93The Common red Beete boyled with Lentils, and \par taken before meate, stoppeth the belly. \par \par The roote of the Romaine or strange red Beete, is boyled and eaten with \par oyle and vingar before other meates, and sometimes with pepper, as they \par use to eate the common Parsenep.\u8221\'94 \par \par So is this final instruction not a recipe? \par \par 1597 \par Langham, William. The garden of health\u8230\'85. 1597 STC (2nd ed.) / 15195 was \par previously mentioned by Mistress Huettewho cited the OED. \par Unfortunately, The OED entry saying \u8220\'931579 Langham Gard. Health (1633) 66 \par Strake a little salt on a Beete roote, and put it into the fundament\u8221\'94 \par under beet-root is wrong as Langham is 1597, not 1579 according to ESTC \par records. \par In any case n that work published in 1597, Under Beetes on pp. 66-67, \par Langham writes: \par \par 3. Seeth white Beetes in water, and wash running sores therewith. Put \par the juice of the roote into the nose to purge the head. 4. Roste the \par roote in the embers and eate it, to take way the smell of Garlicke, \par Onions, or Leekes. \par \par 6. Headache, megrim, swimming, put the juice of the barke of the roote \par into the nose\u8230\'85 \par \par 7. Belly hounde, strake a little salt on a Beete roote, and put it into \par the fundament\u8230\'85. \par \par 8. Head ache of murre or reume, ut the juice of a greene roote with a \par tent into the nose, the white some being scommed off. \par \par 11. Use the hearbe but little inwardly, especially rawe, because it \par breedeth evill humors\u8230\'85.18. The ashes of the roote with hony, restoreth \par haire, and keepeth the est from falling. 19. The roote of Black or red \par Beetes put into the nose, being first bruised, cleanseth the braine. 20. \par The broth of the roote and leaves skowyeth away skurse, skales and nits \par of the head, and swageth the paine of kived heeles, and it heleth \par freckles and spots, if they be first rubbed over with salt peter \par naturall, and so it helpeth the falling of haire, it helpeth running \par sores which spread abroade and waste by the fleshe as they goe. \par \par The 1600 edition of Estienne, Charles and Jean Li\u233\'e9balt. Maison \par rustique, or The countrie farme. Translated by Surflet, Richard, fl. \par 1600-1616. 1600. [Translation of: L'Agriculture et Maison Rustique. \par Charles Estienne: 1504-ca. 1564; Jean Li\u233\'e9bault, ca. 1535-1596;. Richard \par Surflet, , fl. 1600-1616. \par on pages 24-225: reads: \par \par The eighteenth chapter. Of beetes and blites, white and red. \par \par Beetes, as well the white as the blacke and red, which called Bette & \par Iotte of the inhabitants of Tourraine, or Romane of the Picardes, are \par sowen not only in lent, but at all ties, especially after December \par until March, and in August, to the ende that there may always be in a \par readiness both olde and young, and for to gather seed which may indure \par good three yeeres. \par \par Otherwise the advice regarding them repeats the admonition to us dung, \par they take away garlick, etc. \par \par Other Non-English mentions: \par \par Leonhart Fuchs (1501-1566) New Kreuterbuch or The New Herbal of 1543. \par (Taschen\rquote s reprint is 2001) \par \par Colored plate CXX \u8220\'93Rotruben\u8221\'94 depicts a red beet \lquote Beta vulgaris\rquote vr. \par \lquote Rapa\rquote complete with asubstantial red root. The given chapter is \par LXXVII. The combination of German and the typeface used in the volume \par make it difficult to transcribe and I will leave it to someone else to \par decipher the text here. (and I do mean decipher.) \par \par The digital version f Fuch's Botany of 1545 has been scanned by Richard \par Siderits, M.D. and is online at: \par http://www.med.yale.edu/library/historical/fuchs/ \par \par One must note that the 14th century Latin manuscript Tacuinum Sanitatus \par in Medicina includes beetroot. The edition of tis published as The Four \par Seasons of the House of Cerruti. [translation by Judith Spencer. NY: \par Facts On File, 1984] On page 102 the text reads: \par \par BEETROOT Blete . \par There are white, black, and red varieties. The red ones are much \par appreciated when thinly slice in salad, being first boiled in water or \par cooked under hot embers, thinly sliced, and dressed with oil, vinegar, \par and salt. The sweet white ones are the best. Their juice aufert furfures \par capiti, removes dandruff from the scalp and loosens the belly. With \par rgard to this last point, some recommend that the root be scraped with \par a knife, and covered with honey and a little salt, to be used as a \par suppository. The disadvantage of beetroot is that it hinders digestion, \par because of its moisture and laxative nature, ad it heats the blood. It \par is suited to the winter and to old people. \par \par The edition published as Herbarium. Natural Remedies from a Medieval \par Manuscript [Text by Pazzini and Pirani. NY: Rizzoli, 1980] uses the \par Casanatense illustrations and from \u8220\'93those descripions and from notes \par found in other late medieval herbaria\u8221\'94 translates into English the \par following about beets: \par \par XXX Beet (Blete) \par \par Beet is both hot and dry in the first degree, the best roots being those \par that are sweet to the taste. Its juice removes scurf,but it should be \par eaten in moderation as it dries the blood. This defect is prevented by \par using vinegar and mustard. \par \par It\rquote s interesting to note that the illustration from the Taschenbucher \par edition titled Das Hausbuch der Cerruti. [Nach der Handschrift in derOssterreichischen Nationalbiobliothek, 1979.] seems to show clearly that \par both the leaves and roots of \u8220\'93blete\u8221\'94 are being gathered and placed in \par the garden basket. This is a far better reproduction of the illustration \par than that depicted in the Spencer Four easons of the House of Cerruti. \par The Rizzoli edition from the variant manuscript appears to show only the \par leaves. \par \par It is worth noting that Mary Ella Milham\rquote s edition of Platina includes \par the old adage regarding garlic and beetroot. Given that Platina in prit \par dates from the 1470\rquote s, it seems the advice on beetroots and garlic was \par being circulated in even the earliest of printed texts. On page 185 of \par Book III, she translates Platina\rquote s advice \u8220\'93On Sharp Seasonings, and \par First on Garlic.\u8221\'94 \par \par \u8220\'93The more cloves garlic as, the sharper it is. It causes bad breath, \par like onions, leek, shallot and all bulbs. They say, however, that beet \par root roasted under coals and later eaten over garlic takes away its foul \par odor.\u8221\'94 \par \par Some sidelines to this search are interesting to note: Seaching in LoC \par revealed that there are hundreds of items on the thrip that eats the \par modern sugar beet, but very little on the history. There are modern \par journals on the growing\u8230\'85 Biatas: the beet grower. One of the earliest \par books just on beets is: An account f the culture and use of the mangel \par wurzel, or root of scarcity which \par was written by the Abbe de Commerell in French. It was translated and \par published in London in 1787. Mangel wurzels are the beets that are \par generally fed to cattle, but they also serve to rovide a form of modern \par amusement. http://www.mangoldhurling.co.uk/html/rules.html lists the \par rules of mangold hurling which is a sport akin to pumpkin tossing. \par \par Tracing beets back to the Anglo-Saxon texts by using the MED, one finds \par them mentioned as earl as c1150 Hrl.HApul.(Hrl 6258B) \par 112.86/1: Nim \u254\'feisse wyrte seaw, \u254\'feat man persinacam & engle bete nemne\u240\'f0. \par \par (a1398) Trev. Barth.(Add 27944) \par 217a/b: Beta is a comune herbe of Gardyns..and \u254\'feer of is double kynde, \par blak and white..me may graffe on a beete stok [ radicem] as me do\u254\'fe on a \par caule stok \par \par For more about these works one might consult as I have: Rohde, Eleanor \par Sinclair. The Old English Herbals. 1922, 1989 and Frank J Anderson. The \par Illustrated History of the Herbals. 1977. \par \par }\pard\plain \ltrpar\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0\pararsid656717 \rtlch\fcs1 \af4\afs24 \ltrch\fcs0 \f4\fs24\lang1033\langfe1033\cgrid\langnp1033\langfenp1033 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\fs20\insrsid656717\charrsid656717 Johnnae llyn Lewis 02/17/04 \par \par \par }\pard\plain \ltrpar\s18\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0\pararsid656717 \rtlch\fcs1 \af2\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f2\fs20\lang1033\langfe1033\cgrid\langnp1033\langfenp1033 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6 \ltrch\fcs0 \loch\af6\hich\af6\dbch\af266\insrsid656717\charrsid656717 \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 13:03:23 -0800 \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 From: david friedman \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks\hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 ] More on Beets and Beet Roots (P.S.) \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 To: Cooks within the SCA \par \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 I checked a second version of Tacuinum Sanitatus, the one published \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 as "The Medieval Health Handbook" and containing pictures from a \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 variety of different copies.\hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 It has a picture for beets which, like \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 the one in "The Four Seasons of the House of Cerruti," is pretty \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 clearly showing the greens being harvested. \par \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 I should add that the book the picture is in is believed to be 14th \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 c. Italian, based on a 13th c. (I t\hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 hink) translation of an Arabic \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 original. \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 -- \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 David/Cariadoc \par \hich\af6\dbch\af266\loch\f6 http://www.daviddfriedman.com/ \par }\pard\plain \ltrpar\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0\pararsid656717 \rtlch\fcs1 \af4\afs24 \ltrch\fcs0 \f4\fs24\lang1033\langfe1033\cgrid\langnp1033\langfenp1033 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\fs20\insrsid656717\charrsid656717 \par \par }\pard\plain \ltrpar\s18\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0\pararsid656717 \rtlch\fcs1 \af2\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f2\fs20\lang1033\langfe1033\cgrid\langnp1033\langfenp1033 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\insrsid656717\charrsid656717 Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 16:55:31 -0600 \par From: "Terry Decker" \par Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] More on Beets and Beet Roots \par To: "Cooks within the SCA" \par \par > Master Cariadoc comments about some of the period quotes on beets: \par >>>>> \par >> There are white, black, and red varieties. The red ones are much \par >> appreciated when thinly sliced in salad, being first boiled in water \par >> or cooked under hot embers, thinly sliced, and dressed with oil, vinegar, \par >> and salt. The sweet white ones are the best. \par > \par > I think this could be a reference to either the leaves or the root, \par > although specifying the red ones, which other sources suggest have a \par > more edible root, at least suggests the latter. \par \par I'm more of the opinion that they are referring to the beet root. You \par might tear or chop beet leaf, but I doubt you "thinly slice" it. Swiss \par chard (Beta vulgaris cicla) is specifically grown for the leaf and has \par very little root. \par \par Interestingly Columella refers to black and white beets, but makes no \par mention of red. Modern taxonomy tends to B. vulgaris cicla for the chards, \par B. vulgaris rubra for the red roots and B. vulgaris vulgaris for the white \par or yellow roots. I haven't encountered black beets in the modern \par literature, but I may have missed them. Or, it is possible, Columella was \par referring to a dark red as black or to another plant entirely. I haven't \par read Columella closely, so I may be in error. \par \par > <<<< \par > Why do you say this could suggest the leaves? \par > I thought all the leaves would be green, but here they talk about the \par > red ones being much appreciated when slice in a salad. And earlier about \par white, black and red varieties. I admit they may be using the color of the \par roots to indicate which type of beet, while still using only the leaves, but how \par do you cook leaves under hot embers? On the otherhand, that is a pretty \par straight forward thing to do with roots. \par > \par > Would/do the leaves of the various leaves vary in sweetness? Or taste at \par all? Why specify sweet white ones, if you aren't eating the root? How would \par anyone know they were sweet if they weren't eating the root? \par > \par > Stefan \par \par Beet leaves tend to be a mixture of red and green, commonly green leaf \par sometimes with red edging and red stalk. In some cases the leaf takes \par on a reddish tint. \par \par Beet leaves are usually eaten raw, boiled or steamed. They are not cooked \par under embers, a method more suitable for roots or bulbs. \par \par Sugar beets are derived from white varietals, which suggest that the white \par beets are higher in sugar content. This may also apply to the leaves \par if the sap contains a higher concentration of sugars. \par \par Bear \par }\pard\plain \ltrpar\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0\pararsid656717 \rtlch\fcs1 \af4\afs24 \ltrch\fcs0 \f4\fs24\lang1033\langfe1033\cgrid\langnp1033\langfenp1033 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\fs20\insrsid656717\charrsid656717 \par \par }\pard\plain \ltrpar\s18\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0\pararsid656717 \rtlch\fcs1 \af2\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f2\fs20\lang1033\langfe1033\cgrid\langnp1033\langfenp1033 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\insrsid656717\charrsid656717 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:43:14 -0400 \par From: Elaine Koogler \par Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Period or no? \par To: Cooks within the SCA \par \par Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius wrote: \par > Also sprach Elaine Koogler: \par > \par >> Then you need to try the Lomdardy Tarts from Dining with William \par >> Shakespeare (yes, I know that a lot of you think that it should be \par >> made with the greens rather than the root...we had this discussion \par >> some time ago). I have fed that to dyed-in-the-wool beet haters who \par >> tried it because I said it was good (kinda scarey, isn't it??). They \par >> loved it!! \par >> \par >> Take Beets, chop them small, and put to them grated bread and cheese, \par >> and mingle them wel in the chopping, take a few Corrans, and a dish \par >> of sweet Butter, & melt it then stir al these in the Butter, together \par >> with three yolks of Eggs, Synamon, ginger, and sugar, and make your \par >> Tart as large as you will, and fill it with the stuff, bake it and \par >> serve it in. \par > \par > Do you remember, in the short form ;-), what it is that makes the \par > author of "Dining With William Shakespeare' believe beet roots are \par > what the recipe calls for? Is there some reason other than the \par > assumption moderns tend to make, and the fact that the author made it \par > work that way, so the question just sort of never came up? \par > \par > I'm not dissing the author of the idea (I have that book here \par > someplace; when I win the lottery I'll hire someone to catalogue my \par > library), I'm just wondering if it was the result of a conscious \par > decision or just a default that may or may not be justified -- to me, \par > the big reason for thinking it would be greens is the lack of \par > pre-cooking, or at least no specific mention of it. You can get away \par > with that using the tender parts of the greens; but I imagine the \par > roots would need to be pre-cooked: even with the breadcrumbs providing \par > some stabilizing effect, that's going to be a long time to cook eggs. \par > \par > FWIW, most of the beet-haters of my acquaintance are also won over by \par > the non-period but fun concept of beet frites, which are just raw \par > beets peeled, julienned in a mandoline, dusted in a little cornstarch \par > to dry their surface, and deep-fried like potatoes. A lurid pink they \par > become, too... we were always afraid to take the next logical step and \par > make beteraves gaufrettes a la mandoline... \par > \par > Adamantius \par \par She states that beets came to Britain with the Romans, who first \par developed the red beet. She references a statement from Gerard's Herbal \par to the effect that the leaves made a good sallat when boiled and eaten \par with oil, vinegar and pepper. According to Lorwin, she then continues \par with information from Gerard, wherein he asks what could be done with \par the "red and beautiful root (which is to be preferred before the leaves, \par as well in beautie as in goodness) I refer unto the curious and cunning \par cooke, who no doubt when hee had the view there, and is assured that it \par is both good and wholesome, will make thereof many and divers dishes, \par both faire and good. She goes on to state that beets were used in many \par ways bo cooks, including beet-root salads, both hot and cold. She also \par cites William Vaughan, who discusses white beets and says that they \par should be boiled, and a reference to eating beet root after leeks or \par garlic to take away their bad smells. All of this can be found on pp. \par 238 - 239 of /Dining with William Shakespeare. \par \par Hope this helps. What you mention about the fried beets is similar to \par what is often done with sweet potatoes...also the Terra Chips include \par beet chips, which, IMHO, are delicious! \par \par }\pard\plain \ltrpar\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0\pararsid656717 \rtlch\fcs1 \af4\afs24 \ltrch\fcs0 \f4\fs24\lang1033\langfe1033\cgrid\langnp1033\langfenp1033 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\fs20\insrsid656717\charrsid656717 Kiri \par \par \par }\pard\plain \ltrpar\s18\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0\pararsid656717 \rtlch\fcs1 \af2\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f2\fs20\lang1033\langfe1033\cgrid\langnp1033\langfenp1033 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\insrsid656717\charrsid656717 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 20:52:43 -0400 \par From: "Phlip" \par Subject: [Sca-cooks] Pickled beets, et al. \par To: "SCA-Cooks" \par \par One of the recent recipes I "discovered" was the "agraz" in "Ein Buch von \par Guter Spise", Alia Atlas' translation. \par \par 35. Ein agraz (An agraz ) \par Nim holtze epfele und peterlin und bezzin. und stoz ez zu sammene und dr\u252\'fccke \par uz. daz die petersilie ein wenic zuvar. daz heizzet auch agraz. \par Take wood apples and parsley and turnips and pound it together and press it \par out, that the parsley colors a little. That is also called Agraz. \par \par Upon discussion with Adamantius, he had said that he'd thought that the \par "turnips" was a mistranslation, and actually beetroot was meant. I wondered, \par because it said to color it with parsley, so I shredded raw beets, chopped \par apples, mixed them up, added cider vinegar (didn't have any verjuice at the \par time- an earlier recipe says, \par \par " 32*. Wilt du machen einen agraz (How you want to make an agraz) \par Nim wintriubele und stoz sur ephele. diz tu zu sammene. menge ez mit wine. und \par dr\u252\'fcches uz. dise salse ist gut zu scheffinem braten und zu h\u252\'fcenren. und zu \par vischen. und heizzet agraz. \par \par Take grapes and pound sour apples. Add this together. Mix it with wine and \par squeeze it out. This sauce is good for roasting sheep and hens and fish and is \par called Agraz . (Agraz is a sour broth from immature fruit, often called \par verjuice.). " \par \par so I felt the addition of a sour substance like vinegar was appropriate, \par both for flavor and for liquid content). I then took parsley and chopped \par that, using it as a color contrast with the bright beets- tasted very, very \par good, and really brightened up that course. Can see at least forty-eleven \par variations that could be done, including using the turnips as Atlas \par specified, but I like it this way. \par \par Saint Phlip, \par }\pard\plain \ltrpar\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0\pararsid656717 \rtlch\fcs1 \af4\afs24 \ltrch\fcs0 \f4\fs24\lang1033\langfe1033\cgrid\langnp1033\langfenp1033 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\fs20\insrsid656717\charrsid656717 CoD \par \par \par }\pard\plain \ltrpar\s18\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0\pararsid656717 \rtlch\fcs1 \af2\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f2\fs20\lang1033\langfe1033\cgrid\langnp1033\langfenp1033 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6 \ltrch\fcs0 \loch\af6\hich\af6\dbch\af15\insrsid656717\charrsid656717 \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 16:13:51 -0500 \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 From: "Terry Decker" \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] swiss chard =/= beet greens? \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 To: "Cooks within the SCA" \par \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 Am Dienstag, 17. Mai 2005 22:20 schrieb Carole Smith: \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 > Aren't the leaves of modern beets edible? \par \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 "They say , however, that beet root toasted u\hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 nder coals and later eaten \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 over garlic takes away its (garlic) foul odor." \par \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 Platina, III.14 \par \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 The beets with mustard from Apicius has been translated to mean both \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 Beet root and beet greens. \par \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 Bear \par }\pard\plain \ltrpar\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0\pararsid656717 \rtlch\fcs1 \af4\afs24 \ltrch\fcs0 \f4\fs24\lang1033\langfe1033\cgrid\langnp1033\langfenp1033 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\fs20\insrsid656717\charrsid656717 \par \par }\pard\plain \ltrpar\s18\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0\pararsid656717 \rtlch\fcs1 \af2\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f2\fs20\lang1033\langfe1033\cgrid\langnp1033\langfenp1033 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6 \ltrch\fcs0 \loch\af6\hich\af6\dbch\af15\insrsid656717\charrsid656717 \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 14:38:48 -0700 \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 From: lilinah at \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 earthlink.net \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] swiss chard =/= beet greens? \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org \par \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 Giano wrote: \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 > Am Dienstag, 17. Mai 2005 22:20 schrieb Carole Smith: \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 >> Aren't the leaves of modern beets edible? \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 > \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 > Well, I've eaten some and I'm still around. It's just not worth buying \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 > beets for the leaves. \par \par \{\hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 BG\} That depends. While i do not dislike beets, i think their leaves \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 are much tastier. It's often difficult to find a bunch that hasn't \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 been topped (had the\hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 leaves cut off) in the US, though. \par \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 >> I have been told by cooks I thought knowledgeable that the roots of the \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 >> beet were not considered food in period, but that the leaves were. It \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 >> hasn't been on my hot list to verify this one. \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 > \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 > I doubt it. I gu\hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 ess it is possible that Apicius means beet greens served with \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 > mustard and vinegar, and that de Rontzier wants them pickled with anise, but \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 > both seem to jive much better with the root. \par \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 I think Apicius was probably going for the greens, but there's at \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 l\hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 east one recipe in Rumpolt that calls for "rote ruben", but he's \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 quite late in "SCA-period". From what i can tell, leaves are \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 generally what is called for in 14th and 15th century cookbooks. \par \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 Marinated Beets with horseradish \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 Marx Rumpolt, Ein New Kochbuch,\hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 1581 \par \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 3. Rote Ruben eyngemacht mit klein geschnittenen Merrettich/ Aniss/ \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 Coriander/ und ein wenig Kuemel/ sonderlich wenn die Ruben \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 geschnitten/ gesotten mit halb Wein und halb Essig \par \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 3. Red beets preserved with small cut horseradish/ anise/ coriander/ \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 and a little caraway/ special if the beets are cut/ marinated in half \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 wine and half vinegar. \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 -- \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM) \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 the persona formerly known as Anahita \par }\pard\plain \ltrpar\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0\pararsid656717 \rtlch\fcs1 \af4\afs24 \ltrch\fcs0 \f4\fs24\lang1033\langfe1033\cgrid\langnp1033\langfenp1033 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\fs20\insrsid656717\charrsid656717 \par \par }\pard\plain \ltrpar\s18\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0\pararsid656717 \rtlch\fcs1 \af2\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f2\fs20\lang1033\langfe1033\cgrid\langnp1033\langfenp1033 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6 \ltrch\fcs0 \loch\af6\hich\af6\dbch\af15\insrsid656717\charrsid656717 \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 00:46:50 -0400 \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 From: Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 Subject: [Sca-cooks] another question... marinated beets \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 To: Cooks within the SCA \par \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 Using Rumpolt's marinated beets recipe, should it be ok to do these a \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 week ahead of time? (Recipe below) \par \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 3. Rote Ruben ey\hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 ngemacht mit klein geschnittenen Merrettich/ Aniss/ \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 Coriander/ und ein wenig Kuemel/ sonderlich wenn die Ruben geschnitten/ \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 gesotten mit halb Wein und halb Essig \par \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 Pickled Beets - 3. Red beets preserved with small cut \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 horseradish/ anise/ coriander/\hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 and a little caraway/ especially if the \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 beets are cut/ marinated in half wine and half vinegar. \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 -- \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne at fiedlerfamily.net \par }\pard\plain \ltrpar\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0\pararsid656717 \rtlch\fcs1 \af4\afs24 \ltrch\fcs0 \f4\fs24\lang1033\langfe1033\cgrid\langnp1033\langfenp1033 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\fs20\insrsid656717\charrsid656717 \par \par }\pard\plain \ltrpar\s18\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0\pararsid656717 \rtlch\fcs1 \af2\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f2\fs20\lang1033\langfe1033\cgrid\langnp1033\langfenp1033 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6 \ltrch\fcs0 \loch\af6\hich\af6\dbch\af15\insrsid656717\charrsid656717 \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 23:08:21 +0200 \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 From: Volker Bach \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] another question... marinated beets \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 To: jenne at fiedlerfamily.net, Cooks within the SCA \par \tab \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 \par \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 Am Samstag, 11. Juni 2005 06:46 schrieb Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 Heise: \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 > Using Rumpolt's marinated beets re\hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 cipe, should it be ok to do these a \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 > week ahead of time? (Recipe below) \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 > \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 > 3. Rote Ruben eyngemacht mit klein geschnittenen Merrettich/ Aniss/ \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 > Coriander/ und ein wenig Kuemel/ sonderlich wenn die Ruben geschnitten/ \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 > gesotten mit halb Wein und halb\hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 Essig \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 > \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 > Pickled Beets - 3. Red beets preserved with small cut \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 > horseradish/ anise/ coriander/ and a little caraway/ especially if the \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 > beets are cut/ marinated in half wine and half vinegar. \par \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 Depends how thin you slice them. I made it last yea\hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 r and found it a bit \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 disappointing on first trying, though it improved with age. \par \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 From my experience: don't overdo the anise, and add salt. It really needs \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 salt. I would also recommend a strong vinegar, especially if you're only \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 resting it for a week. \par \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 Giano \par }\pard\plain \ltrpar\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0\pararsid656717 \rtlch\fcs1 \af4\afs24 \ltrch\fcs0 \f4\fs24\lang1033\langfe1033\cgrid\langnp1033\langfenp1033 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\fs20\insrsid656717\charrsid656717 \par \par }\pard\plain \ltrpar\s18\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0\pararsid656717 \rtlch\fcs1 \af2\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f2\fs20\lang1033\langfe1033\cgrid\langnp1033\langfenp1033 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6 \ltrch\fcs0 \loch\af6\hich\af6\dbch\af15\insrsid656717\charrsid656717 \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 14:22:41 -0700 \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 From: lilinah at earthlink.net \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] another question... marinated beets \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org \par \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 Jadwiga wrote: \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 > Using Rumpolt's marinated beets recipe, should it be ok to do these a \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 > week ahead of time? (Recipe below) \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 > \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 > 3. Rote Ruben eyngemacht mit klein geschnittenen Merrettich/ Aniss/ \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 > Coriander/ und ein wenig Kuemel/ sonderlich wenn die Ruben geschnitten/ \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 > gesotten mit halb Wein und halb Essig \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 > \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 > Pickled Beets - \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 3. Red beets preserved with small cut \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 > horseradish/ anise/ coriander/ and a little caraway/ especially if the \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 > beets are cut/ marinated in half wine and half vinegar. \par \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 I'd think so, as long as they are kept covered and cold. I made them \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 about 3 or 4 days\hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 before the feast at which i served them. Since the \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 horseradish mellows over time, you might want to add some more on the \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 day of serving, depending how zingy you like them. \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 -- \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM) \par \hich\af6\dbch\af15\loch\f6 the persona formerly known as Anahita \par }\pard\plain \ltrpar\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0\pararsid656717 \rtlch\fcs1 \af4\afs24 \ltrch\fcs0 \f4\fs24\lang1033\langfe1033\cgrid\langnp1033\langfenp1033 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\fs20\insrsid14174015\charrsid656717 \par \par }\pard \ltrpar\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0\pararsid14174015 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\fs20\insrsid14174015\charrsid14174015 Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 23:57:39 -0400 \par From: Johnna Holloway \par Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Lombardy Tarts was Speaking of beets... \par To: hlaislinn at earthlink.net,\tab Cooks within the SCA \par \tab \par \par For the sake of completeness, \par I should add that the "*Lumdardy Tartes* \par (John Partridge, _The good Huswife's Handmaide for the Kitchin_, 1594)" \par as given in a posting on beets on 9/4/2006 10:41 PM \par is incorrectly cited. John Partridge is not the author of title: \par A Good Huswife's Handmaide for the Kitchin. \par The author is not cited in the text so it should be \par properly catalogued as by Anonymous. \par The Running title reads: A new booke of cookerie. \par The STC is 3298. The Bodleian Library's copy was filmed \par twice and appears in the UMI collection of microfilms \par and online through EEBO. \par John Partridge is the credited author of other Elizabethan cookbooks, \par but his name doesn't appear in this one. \par \par Johnnae llyn Lewis \par \par \par Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 01:37:08 -0700 \par From: lilinah at earthlink.net \par Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Speaking of beets... \par To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org \par \par Stephanie Ross wrote: \par > I was thinking of beets and Lombardy tarts today in the shower. I have made \par > Lombardy tarts with beet roots and thought they were great! However, I \par > can't recall another beet tart/pie recipe that specifies it is made with \par > beet roots, even in Russian cuisine. \par \par Marx Rumpolt, 1581 \par \par 30. Nimb Ruben/ die gebraten seyn/ hack sie/ vnnd mach sie mit Butter an/ \par vnd versaltz es nicht/ so ist es ein gute Fu:ell in ein Turten. \par \par 30. Take roots (beets/turnips/carrots...)/ that have been fried/ chop \par them/ and prepare them with butter/ and do not oversalt them/ so it \par is a good filling for Turten. \par \par Granted, the original does not specify which roots to use, but other \par recipes in this cookbook call for "rot ruben" = "red root" which is \par beet root, so i figure beets could be used in this dish. \par -- \par Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM) \par the persona formerly known as Anahita \par }{\rtlch\fcs1 \af6\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\fs20\insrsid656717\charrsid14174015 \par }\pard \ltrpar\ql \li0\ri-990\widctlpar\wrapdefault\faauto\adjustright\rin-990\lin0\itap0\pararsid656717 {\rtlch\fcs1 \af6\afs20 \ltrch\fcs0 \f6\fs20\insrsid656717\charrsid656717 \par }}