artichokes-msg - 1/7/08
਀ഊPeriod artichokes. Recipes. Cardoons.
਀ഊNOTE: See also the files: vegetables-msg, root-veg-msg, asparagus-msg, onions-msg, salads-msg, eggplant-msg, mushrooms-msg, peas-msg, beans-msg.
਀ഊ************************************************************************
਀一伀吀䤀䌀䔀 ⴀഊ
਀吀栀椀猀 昀椀氀攀 椀猀 愀 挀漀氀氀攀挀琀椀漀渀 漀昀 瘀愀爀椀漀甀猀 洀攀猀猀愀最攀猀 栀愀瘀椀渀最 愀 挀漀洀洀漀渀 琀栀攀洀攀 琀栀愀琀 䤀 栀愀瘀攀 挀漀氀氀攀挀琀攀搀 昀爀漀洀 洀礀 爀攀愀搀椀渀最 漀昀 琀栀攀 瘀愀爀椀漀甀猀 挀漀洀瀀甀琀攀爀 渀攀琀眀漀爀欀猀⸀ 匀漀洀攀 洀攀猀猀愀最攀猀 搀愀琀攀 戀愀挀欀 琀漀 ㄀㤀㠀㤀Ⰰ 猀漀洀攀 洀愀礀 戀攀 愀猀 爀攀挀攀渀琀 愀猀 礀攀猀琀攀爀搀愀礀⸀ഊ
਀吀栀椀猀 昀椀氀攀 椀猀 瀀愀爀琀 漀昀 愀 挀漀氀氀攀挀琀椀漀渀 漀昀 昀椀氀攀猀 挀愀氀氀攀搀 匀琀攀昀愀渀✀猀 䘀氀漀爀椀氀攀最椀甀洀⸀ 吀栀攀猀攀 昀椀氀攀猀 愀爀攀 愀瘀愀椀氀愀戀氀攀 漀渀 琀栀攀 䤀渀琀攀爀渀攀琀 愀琀㨀 栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀眀眀眀⸀昀氀漀爀椀氀攀最椀甀洀⸀漀爀最ഊ
਀䤀 栀愀瘀攀 搀漀渀攀 愀 氀椀洀椀琀攀搀 愀洀漀甀渀琀 漀昀 攀搀椀琀椀渀最⸀ 䴀攀猀猀愀最攀猀 栀愀瘀椀渀最 琀漀 搀漀 眀椀琀栀 猀攀瀀愀爀愀琀攀 琀漀瀀椀挀猀 眀攀爀攀 猀漀洀攀琀椀洀攀猀 猀瀀氀椀琀 椀渀琀漀 搀椀昀昀攀爀攀渀琀 昀椀氀攀猀 愀渀搀 猀漀洀攀琀椀洀攀猀 攀砀琀爀愀渀攀漀甀猀 椀渀昀漀爀洀愀琀椀漀渀 眀愀猀 爀攀洀漀瘀攀搀⸀ 䘀漀爀 椀渀猀琀愀渀挀攀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 洀攀猀猀愀最攀 䤀䐀猀 眀攀爀攀 爀攀洀漀瘀攀搀 琀漀 猀愀瘀攀 猀瀀愀挀攀 愀渀搀 爀攀洀漀瘀攀 挀氀甀琀琀攀爀⸀ഊ
਀吀栀攀 挀漀洀洀攀渀琀猀 洀愀搀攀 椀渀 琀栀攀猀攀 洀攀猀猀愀最攀猀 愀爀攀 渀漀琀 渀攀挀攀猀猀愀爀椀氀礀 洀礀 瘀椀攀眀瀀漀椀渀琀猀⸀ 䤀 洀愀欀攀 渀漀 挀氀愀椀洀猀 愀猀 琀漀 琀栀攀 愀挀挀甀爀愀挀礀 漀昀 琀栀攀 椀渀昀漀爀洀愀琀椀漀渀 最椀瘀攀渀 戀礀 琀栀攀 椀渀搀椀瘀椀搀甀愀氀 愀甀琀栀漀爀猀⸀ഊ
਀倀氀攀愀猀攀 爀攀猀瀀攀挀琀 琀栀攀 琀椀洀攀 愀渀搀 攀昀昀漀爀琀猀 漀昀 琀栀漀猀攀 眀栀漀 栀愀瘀攀 眀爀椀琀琀攀渀 琀栀攀猀攀 洀攀猀猀愀最攀猀⸀ 吀栀攀 挀漀瀀礀爀椀最栀琀 猀琀愀琀甀猀 漀昀 琀栀攀猀攀 洀攀猀猀愀最攀猀 椀猀 甀渀挀氀攀愀爀 愀琀 琀栀椀猀 琀椀洀攀⸀ 䤀昀 椀渀昀漀爀洀愀琀椀漀渀 椀猀 瀀甀戀氀椀猀栀攀搀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀猀攀 洀攀猀猀愀最攀猀Ⰰ 瀀氀攀愀猀攀 最椀瘀攀 挀爀攀搀椀琀 琀漀 琀栀攀 漀爀椀最椀渀愀琀漀爀⠀猀⤀⸀ഊ
਀吀栀愀渀欀 礀漀甀Ⰰഊ    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
਀                                          匀琀攀昀愀渀 愀琀 昀氀漀爀椀氀攀最椀甀洀⸀漀爀最ഊ************************************************************************
਀ഊDate: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 10:18:44 -0800
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 搀愀瘀椀搀 昀爀椀攀搀洀愀渀 㰀搀搀昀爀 愀琀 戀攀猀琀⸀挀漀洀㸀ഊSubject: Re: SC - artichokes?
਀ഊAt 12:32 AM -0500 8/31/98, Stefan li Rous wrote:
਀㸀䄀爀攀 琀栀攀爀攀 洀攀搀椀攀瘀愀氀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀猀 甀猀椀渀最 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀猀㼀 䄀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀 栀攀愀爀琀猀㼀 䄀爀攀 琀栀攀爀攀 愀渀礀ഊ>European recipes with these?
਀ഊThere seems some disagreement as to when the artichoke came into
਀攀砀椀猀琀攀渀挀攀ⴀⴀ䤀 搀椀猀挀甀猀猀 琀栀攀 焀甀攀猀琀椀漀渀 椀渀 琀栀攀 䴀椀猀挀攀氀氀愀渀礀 愀爀琀椀挀氀攀 漀渀 眀栀愀琀 昀漀漀搀猀ഊare appropriate for period feasts. My own opinion is that the artichoke was
਀戀爀攀搀 漀甀琀 漀昀 琀栀攀 䌀愀爀搀漀漀渀 猀漀洀攀琀椀洀攀 搀甀爀椀渀最 漀甀爀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀⸀ഊ
਀吀栀攀爀攀 愀爀攀 琀眀漀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀猀 椀渀 琀栀攀 䄀渀搀愀氀甀猀椀愀渀 挀漀漀欀戀漀漀欀 眀栀椀挀栀 䌀栀愀爀氀攀猀 倀攀爀爀礀 ⠀琀栀攀ഊtranslator) thinks refer to cardoons, but might conceivably be intended for
਀愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀猀⸀ 吀栀攀礀 愀爀攀㨀ഊ
਀倀爀攀瀀愀爀椀渀最 愀 䐀椀猀栀 圀椀琀栀 䌀愀爀搀漀漀渀ഊ
਀吀愀欀攀 洀攀愀琀 愀渀搀 挀甀琀 椀琀 甀瀀Ⰰ 眀愀猀栀 愀渀搀 瀀甀琀 椀渀 琀栀攀 瀀漀琀 愀渀搀 瀀漀甀爀 漀瘀攀爀 攀渀漀甀最栀 眀愀琀攀爀ഊto cover. Put in the pot one spoon of oil, two of murri and one of
਀挀氀愀爀椀昀椀攀搀 戀甀琀琀攀爀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 猀漀愀欀攀搀 最愀爀戀愀渀稀漀猀Ⰰ 挀栀漀瀀瀀攀搀 漀渀椀漀渀 愀渀搀 挀漀爀椀愀渀搀攀爀 猀攀攀搀⸀ഊPeel the cardoons, boil and cut up and throw pepper in the pot with them,
਀愀渀搀 眀栀攀渀 琀栀攀礀 愀爀攀 挀漀漀欀攀搀Ⰰ 琀愀欀攀 琀眀漀 攀最最猀 愀渀搀 戀爀攀愀搀 挀爀甀洀戀猀Ⰰ 挀漀瘀攀爀 琀栀攀ഊcontents of the pot well and leave over the coals until the grease comes
਀漀甀琀Ⰰ 䜀漀搀 眀椀氀氀椀渀最⸀ഊ
਀倀爀攀瀀愀爀椀渀最 愀 䐀椀猀栀 漀昀 䌀愀爀搀漀漀渀猀 眀椀琀栀 䴀攀愀琀ഊ
਀吀愀欀攀 洀攀愀琀 愀渀搀 挀甀琀 椀琀 甀瀀Ⰰ 瀀甀琀 椀渀 琀栀攀 瀀漀琀 眀椀琀栀 眀愀琀攀爀Ⰰ 猀愀氀琀Ⰰ 琀眀漀 猀瀀漀漀渀猀 漀昀ഊmurri, one of vinegar and another of oil, pepper, caraway and coriander
਀猀攀攀搀⸀ 倀甀琀 漀渀 琀栀攀 昀椀爀攀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 眀栀攀渀 椀琀 椀猀 挀漀漀欀攀搀Ⰰ 眀愀猀栀 琀栀攀 挀愀爀搀漀漀渀猀Ⰰ 戀漀椀氀Ⰰ 挀甀琀ഊup small and throw over the meat. Boil a little, and cover the contents of
਀琀栀攀 瀀漀琀 眀椀琀栀 琀眀漀 攀最最猀 愀渀搀 戀爀攀愀搀 挀爀甀洀戀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 猀瀀爀椀渀欀氀攀 瀀攀瀀瀀攀爀 漀渀 椀琀 椀渀 琀栀攀ഊplatter, God willing.
਀ഊDavid/Cariadoc
਀栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀眀眀眀⸀戀攀猀琀⸀挀漀洀⼀縀搀搀昀爀⼀ഊ
਀ഊDate: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 09:20:45 +1000 (EST)
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 吀栀攀 䌀栀攀猀栀椀爀攀 䌀愀琀 㰀猀椀愀渀愀渀 愀琀 最攀漀挀椀琀椀攀猀⸀挀漀洀㸀ഊSubject: Re: SC - artichokes?
਀ഊ>Are there medieval recipes using artichokes? Artichoke hearts? Are there any
਀㸀䔀甀爀漀瀀攀愀渀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀猀 眀椀琀栀 琀栀攀猀攀㼀ഊ
਀䤀 栀愀瘀攀 猀攀攀渀 愀 爀攀昀攀爀愀渀挀攀 琀漀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀猀 漀渀 琀栀攀 昀漀漀搀 琀愀戀氀攀 椀渀 琀栀攀 昀漀爀洀 漀昀 愀ഊstill life by Osias Beert (c. 1580 - 1624).  This shows a young artichoke
਀爀攀愀搀礀 琀漀 戀攀 攀愀琀攀渀⸀ 刀愀琀栀攀爀 猀挀愀渀琀 搀漀挀甀洀攀渀琀愀琀椀漀渀 䤀 欀渀漀眀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 椀琀✀猀 愀氀氀 䤀 栀愀瘀攀⸀ഊ   I also have one recipe for artichokes, however I have as yet failed
਀氀漀挀愀琀攀 琀栀攀 漀爀椀最椀渀愀氀 昀爀漀洀 洀礀 昀椀氀攀⸀  䠀攀爀攀 椀琀 椀猀 愀氀爀攀愀搀礀 爀攀搀愀挀琀攀搀 琀栀漀甀最栀⸀ഊ
਀䄀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀猀 椀渀 挀爀攀愀洀 猀愀甀挀攀⸀ഊ
਀㘀 最氀漀戀攀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀猀ഊ300ml cream
਀㄀⼀㈀ 琀猀瀀 渀甀琀洀攀最ഊ1 blade mace
਀㄀ 琀猀瀀 猀甀最愀爀ഊsalt, pepper, lemon juice to taste
਀䘀爀攀猀栀 洀椀渀琀 愀渀搀 ㈀ 挀氀漀瘀攀猀 最愀爀氀椀挀 椀昀 氀椀欀攀搀ഊA knob of butter
਀ഊ  Discard the coarse outer leaves of the artichoke, peel the stems and cook
਀琀栀攀 眀栀漀氀攀 栀攀愀搀猀 椀渀 猀愀氀琀攀搀 眀愀琀攀爀 眀椀琀栀 愀 氀椀琀琀氀攀 洀椀渀琀 愀渀搀 最愀爀氀椀挀Ⰰ 甀渀琀椀氀ഊtender. Drain and cool.  Remove the leaves, scraping away the flesh at the
਀戀漀琀琀漀洀 漀昀 攀愀挀栀 漀渀攀⸀  䌀甀琀 漀昀昀 琀栀攀 猀琀攀洀猀 愀渀搀 挀栀漀瀀Ⰰ 欀攀攀瀀椀渀最 琀栀攀 戀椀琀猀 琀漀 漀渀攀ഊside.
਀ഊ  Remove the hairy chokes and keep the bottoms.  Heat the cream with the
਀猀瀀椀挀攀猀 愀渀搀 猀甀最愀爀 甀渀琀椀氀 愀氀洀漀猀琀 戀漀椀氀椀渀最Ⰰ 琀栀攀渀 戀攀愀琀 椀渀 琀栀攀 戀甀琀琀攀爀 愀渀搀 愀搀搀 愀ഊlittle lemon juice to taste.  Warn the artichoke bottoms through in the
਀猀愀甀挀攀Ⰰ 琀愀欀椀渀最 挀愀爀攀 渀漀琀 琀漀 戀漀椀氀⸀  匀攀愀猀漀渀 琀栀攀 昀氀攀猀栀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀 氀攀愀瘀攀猀 愀渀搀 眀愀爀洀ഊthrough.  Pile this in the middle of your serving dish and pour the bottoms
਀椀渀 琀栀攀椀爀 猀愀甀挀攀 愀爀漀甀渀搀 椀琀⸀  匀攀爀瘀攀 最愀爀渀椀猀栀攀搀 眀椀琀栀 猀瀀爀椀最猀 漀昀 洀椀渀琀⸀ഊ
਀  䤀✀氀氀 瀀漀猀琀 琀栀攀 漀爀椀最椀渀愀氀 眀栀攀渀 䤀 昀椀渀搀 椀琀⸀ഊ
਀ⴀ ⴀ匀椀愀渀愀渀ഊ
਀ഊDate: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 00:19:15 +0500
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀刀漀戀椀渀 䌀愀爀爀漀氀氀ⴀ䴀愀渀渀∀ 㰀栀愀爀瀀攀爀 愀琀 椀搀琀⸀渀攀琀㸀ഊSubject: Re: SC - artichokes?
਀ഊAnd it came to pass on 31 Aug 98, that david friedman wrote:
਀㸀 䄀琀 ㄀㈀㨀㌀㈀ 䄀䴀 ⴀ　㔀　　 㠀⼀㌀㄀⼀㤀㠀Ⰰ 匀琀攀昀愀渀 氀椀 刀漀甀猀 眀爀漀琀攀㨀ഊ> >Are there medieval recipes using artichokes? Artichoke hearts? Are there any
਀㸀 㸀䔀甀爀漀瀀攀愀渀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀猀 眀椀琀栀 琀栀攀猀攀㼀ഊ>
਀㸀 吀栀攀爀攀 猀攀攀洀猀 猀漀洀攀 搀椀猀愀最爀攀攀洀攀渀琀 愀猀 琀漀 眀栀攀渀 琀栀攀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀 挀愀洀攀 椀渀琀漀ഊ> existence--I discuss the question in the Miscellany article on what
਀㸀 昀漀漀搀猀 愀爀攀 愀瀀瀀爀漀瀀爀椀愀琀攀 昀漀爀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 昀攀愀猀琀猀⸀ 䴀礀 漀眀渀 漀瀀椀渀椀漀渀 椀猀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀ഊ> artichoke was bred out of the Cardoon sometime during our period.
਀ഊThe _Arte Cisoria_ by Enrique de Villena, is a 1423 Spanish carving
਀洀愀渀甀愀氀⸀  䤀琀 洀攀渀琀椀漀渀猀 戀漀琀栀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀猀 愀渀搀 挀愀爀搀漀漀渀猀⸀  䤀渀 搀椀猀挀甀猀猀椀渀最 栀漀眀ഊto carve artichokes, the author specifies that they are to be cut
਀∀氀椀欀攀 琀栀攀 漀琀栀攀爀 挀愀爀搀漀漀渀猀∀⸀ഊ
਀一漀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀猀 愀爀攀 最椀瘀攀渀Ⰰ 愀猀 琀栀椀猀 椀猀 渀漀琀 愀 挀漀漀欀戀漀漀欀Ⰰ 瀀攀爀 猀攀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 搀攀ഊVillena mentions that artichokes can be served boiled or "adobado"
਀⠀瀀椀挀欀氀攀搀⤀⸀ഊ
਀䰀愀搀礀 䈀爀椀最栀椀搀 渀椀 䌀栀椀愀爀愀椀渀 漀昀 吀攀琀栀戀愀ഊBarony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom
਀洀欀愀 刀漀戀椀渀 䌀愀爀爀漀氀氀ⴀ䴀愀渀渀 ⨀⨀⨀ 栀愀爀瀀攀爀  愀琀  椀搀琀⸀渀攀琀ഊ
਀ഊDate: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 19:12:33 -0500
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 䴀椀欀攀 愀渀搀 倀愀琀 䰀甀挀漀 㰀洀椀欀攀氀 愀琀 瀀搀焀⸀渀攀琀㸀ഊSubject: SC - Re: SC: artichokes
਀ഊIn Italy currently they eat the whole artichoke (fuzz and ALL).  They use young
਀愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀猀Ⰰ 渀漀琀 琀栀攀 昀甀氀氀 漀渀攀猀 氀椀欀攀 礀漀甀 昀椀渀搀 挀漀洀洀攀爀挀椀愀氀氀礀⸀  吀栀椀猀 洀愀欀攀猀 琀栀攀洀 琀攀渀搀攀爀 愀渀搀 攀愀猀椀氀礀 攀搀椀戀氀攀 ⠀夀唀䴀⤀  吀栀攀礀 攀瘀攀渀 猀琀甀昀昀 琀栀攀洀 眀椀琀栀 猀瀀攀挀⠀㼀⤀⠀ 愀 琀礀瀀攀 漀昀 椀琀愀氀椀愀渀 戀愀挀漀渀Ⰰ 眀栀椀挀栀 琀栀攀礀 栀愀瘀攀 洀愀渀礀 琀礀瀀攀猀⤀ 愀渀搀 戀爀攀愀搀 挀爀甀洀戀猀 眀椀琀栀 氀漀琀猀 漀昀 戀甀琀琀攀爀⸀  夀漀甀 攀愀琀 琀栀攀 眀栀漀氀攀 琀栀椀渀最 眀椀琀栀 琀栀攀 攀砀挀攀瀀琀椀漀渀 漀昀 琀栀攀 瀀漀椀渀琀猀 漀渀 氀愀爀最攀爀 氀攀愀瘀攀猀⸀ഊ
਀ഊDate: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 22:26:38 EDT
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 䰀爀搀刀愀猀 愀琀 愀漀氀⸀挀漀洀ഊSubject: SC - artichokes-warning
਀ഊmikel at pdq.net writes:
਀㰀㰀 䤀渀 䤀琀愀氀礀 挀甀爀爀攀渀琀氀礀 琀栀攀礀 攀愀琀 琀栀攀 眀栀漀氀攀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀 ⠀昀甀稀稀 愀渀搀 䄀䰀䰀⤀⸀ 㸀㸀ഊ
਀倀氀攀愀猀攀 搀漀 渀漀琀 琀爀礀 琀栀椀猀 愀琀 栀漀洀攀Ⰰ 昀漀氀欀猀⸀ 䄀 嘀䔀刀夀Ⰰ 嘀䔀刀夀Ⰰ 嘀䔀刀夀 礀漀甀渀最 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀ഊmaybe, but the fuzz in the center of the artichoke is needle sharp and can
਀氀椀琀攀爀愀氀氀礀 ✀挀栀漀欀攀✀ 礀漀甀 琀漀 搀攀愀琀栀 椀昀 猀眀愀氀氀漀眀攀搀⸀ 吀栀攀 瀀爀攀漀樀攀挀琀椀氀攀猀 愀氀猀漀 挀愀渀Ⰰ 愀渀搀ഊdo, stick into your tongue, roof of your mouth  and cheeks breaking off their
਀琀椀瀀猀 愀渀搀 挀愀甀猀椀渀最 攀砀挀爀甀挀椀愀琀椀渀最 瀀愀椀渀⸀ഊ
਀䔀愀琀椀渀最 挀栀漀欀攀 昀甀稀稀 椀猀 漀渀攀 漀昀 琀栀漀猀攀 琀栀椀渀最猀 琀栀愀琀 礀漀甀 洀甀猀琀 戀攀 攀砀瀀攀爀椀攀渀挀攀搀 椀渀ഊdetermining when the safety factor is surpasssed or have someone who knows
਀眀栀愀琀 琀栀攀礀✀爀攀 搀漀椀渀最 琀攀愀挀栀 礀漀甀 琀栀攀 瀀爀漀瀀攀爀 愀最攀 漀昀 琀栀攀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀⸀ഊ
਀刀愀猀ഊ
਀ഊDate: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 06:13:59 -0500
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀䐀攀挀欀攀爀Ⰰ 吀攀爀爀礀 䐀⸀∀ 㰀吀攀爀爀礀䐀 愀琀 䠀攀愀氀琀栀⸀匀琀愀琀攀⸀伀䬀⸀唀匀㸀ഊSubject: RE: SC - artichokes-warning
਀ഊ> << In Italy currently they eat the whole artichoke (fuzz and ALL). >>
਀㸀ഊ> Please do not try this at home, folks. A VERY, VERY, VERY young artichoke
਀㸀 洀愀礀戀攀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 琀栀攀 昀甀稀稀 椀渀 琀栀攀 挀攀渀琀攀爀 漀昀 琀栀攀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀 椀猀 渀攀攀搀氀攀 猀栀愀爀瀀 愀渀搀 挀愀渀ഊ> literally 'choke' you to death if swallowed.
਀㸀ഊ> Ras
਀ഊIIRC, sometime ago, one of the cooking shows (Jeff Smith?) was doing
਀愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀猀 愀渀搀 猀琀愀琀攀搀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 䔀甀爀漀瀀攀愀渀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀猀 愀渀搀 琀栀攀 䄀洀攀爀椀挀愀渀ഊartichokes were two different but related plants. Apparently the fuzz of the
਀䔀甀爀漀瀀攀愀渀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀 椀猀 攀搀椀戀氀攀Ⰰ 眀栀攀爀攀 琀栀攀 昀甀稀稀 漀昀 琀栀攀 䄀洀攀爀椀挀愀渀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀 椀猀ഊnot.
਀ഊBear
਀ഊ
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 吀栀甀Ⰰ 　㌀ 匀攀瀀 ㄀㤀㤀㠀 　㤀㨀㌀㔀㨀㈀　 ⬀　㄀　　ഊFrom: Robyn Probert <robyn.probert at lawpoint.com.au>
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀䔀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀猀ⴀ眀愀爀渀椀渀最ഊ
਀䈀攀愀爀 眀爀漀琀攀ഊ>IIRC, sometime ago, one of the cooking shows (Jeff Smith?) was doing
਀㸀愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀猀 愀渀搀 猀琀愀琀攀搀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 䔀甀爀漀瀀攀愀渀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀猀 愀渀搀 琀栀攀 䄀洀攀爀椀挀愀渀ഊ>artichokes were two different but related plants. Apparently the fuzz of the
਀㸀䔀甀爀漀瀀攀愀渀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀 椀猀 攀搀椀戀氀攀Ⰰ 眀栀攀爀攀 琀栀攀 昀甀稀稀 漀昀 琀栀攀 䄀洀攀爀椀挀愀渀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀 椀猀ഊ>not.
਀ഊAs far as I am aware there is only one species, but there are certainly
਀猀攀瘀攀爀愀氀 瘀愀爀椀攀琀椀攀猀 ⠀琀栀攀礀 愀爀攀 爀攀氀愀琀攀搀 琀漀 琀栀椀猀琀氀攀猀 椀渀挀椀搀攀渀琀愀氀氀礀⤀⸀ഊ
਀䤀昀 琀栀攀礀 愀爀攀 戀椀最 ⴀ 昀椀猀琀 猀椀稀攀搀 ⴀ 䤀 爀攀洀漀瘀攀 琀栀攀 挀栀漀欀攀 戀攀挀愀甀猀攀 䤀 搀漀渀✀琀 氀椀欀攀ഊeating prickles. If you miss a few they have an unpleasant texture but no
਀漀琀栀攀爀 猀椀搀攀 攀昀昀攀挀琀猀 ⠀愀渀搀 䤀✀瘀攀 攀愀琀椀渀最 愀 昀攀眀⤀⸀ 䤀昀 琀栀攀礀 愀爀攀 猀洀愀氀氀 ⴀ 眀愀氀渀甀琀 猀椀稀攀搀ഊup to 2" - I don't bother. In between? depends how mature they look - after
਀愀 眀栀椀氀攀 礀漀甀 挀愀渀 琀攀氀氀 戀礀 琀栀攀 挀漀氀漀甀爀 愀渀搀 猀栀愀瀀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀 氀攀愀瘀攀猀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 䤀 搀漀渀✀琀ഊthink I could describe the difference :)
਀ഊRowan
਀ഊ
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 䘀爀椀Ⰰ ㄀㠀 匀攀瀀 ㄀㤀㤀㠀 ㄀㤀㨀㐀㈀㨀㌀㤀 ⴀ　㐀　　ഊFrom: mermayde at juno.com (Christine A Seelye-King)
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 䄀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀 刀攀挀椀瀀椀攀猀ഊ
਀        圀攀氀氀Ⰰ 䤀 眀愀猀 猀栀漀瀀瀀椀渀最 琀漀渀椀最栀琀 愀渀搀 昀漀甀渀搀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀猀 昀漀爀 ⸀㤀㤀 攀愀挀栀Ⰰ 猀漀 䤀 猀渀愀瀀瀀攀搀 猀漀洀攀 甀瀀⸀ ⠀䜀漀 愀栀攀愀搀 愀渀搀 猀挀漀昀昀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 琀栀椀猀 椀猀 琀栀攀 戀攀猀琀 瀀爀椀挀攀 䤀✀瘀攀 猀攀攀渀 昀漀爀 琀栀攀猀攀 琀栀椀猀 礀攀愀爀⸀⤀  䤀 栀愀瘀攀 戀漀椀氀攀搀 琀栀攀洀 愀猀 甀猀甀愀氀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 栀愀瘀攀 洀愀搀攀 洀礀 猀琀愀渀搀愀爀搀 挀甀爀爀椀攀搀 洀愀礀漀渀渀愀椀猀攀⨀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 䤀 琀栀漀甀最栀琀Ⰰ ✀夀漀甀 欀渀漀眀Ⰰ 眀攀 眀攀爀攀 琀愀氀欀椀渀最 愀戀漀甀琀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀猀 漀渀 琀栀攀 䌀漀漀欀✀猀 䰀椀猀琀 愀 眀栀椀氀攀 愀最漀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 䤀 猀愀瘀攀搀 猀漀洀攀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 爀攀挀椀瀀椀攀猀 昀漀爀 琀栀攀洀Ⰰ 眀栀礀 搀漀渀✀琀 䤀 搀漀 猀漀洀攀琀栀椀渀最 氀椀欀攀 琀栀愀琀 昀漀爀 琀栀攀 攀瘀攀渀琀 琀漀洀漀爀漀眀㼀✀ 匀漀Ⰰ 䤀 眀攀渀琀 氀漀漀欀椀渀最Ⰰ 愀渀搀 漀渀氀礀 昀漀甀渀搀 琀眀漀Ⰰ 漀渀攀 昀漀爀 琀栀攀 戀愀猀攀猀 猀攀爀瘀攀搀 椀渀 愀 挀爀攀愀洀 猀愀甀挀攀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 漀渀攀 昀爀漀洀 䌀愀爀椀愀搀漀挀 愀戀漀甀琀 䴀攀愀琀 眀椀琀栀 䌀愀爀搀漀漀渀猀⸀ഊ
਀        䐀椀搀渀✀琀 眀攀 栀愀瘀攀 猀漀洀攀琀栀椀渀最 爀攀猀攀洀戀氀椀渀最 愀 瘀椀渀愀椀最爀攀琀琀攀Ⰰ 漀爀 愀洀 䤀 椀洀愀最椀渀椀渀最 琀栀椀渀最猀㼀        ഊ
਀䌀栀爀椀猀琀椀愀渀渀愀ഊ
਀ഊDate: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 21:07:23 -0700
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 搀愀瘀椀搀 昀爀椀攀搀洀愀渀 㰀搀搀昀爀 愀琀 戀攀猀琀⸀挀漀洀㸀ഊSubject: Re: SC - Is tarragon period?
਀ഊWhen artichokes appear seems at least mildly controversial. The Romans had
਀猀漀洀攀琀栀椀渀最 琀栀攀礀 挀愀氀氀攀搀 ∀挀礀渀愀爀愀Ⰰ∀ 戀甀琀 猀漀洀攀 愀甀琀栀漀爀椀琀椀攀猀 琀栀椀渀欀 椀琀 眀愀猀 琀栀攀ഊCardoon. There seems to be some evidence that the artichoke was bred out of
਀琀栀攀 䌀愀爀搀漀漀渀 椀渀 愀氀ⴀ䄀渀搀愀氀甀猀 搀甀爀椀渀最 匀䌀䄀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀Ⰰ 眀栀椀挀栀 眀漀甀氀搀 洀愀欀攀 椀琀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 昀漀爀ഊat least the later centuries.
਀ഊAnd I have both artichokes and cardoons growing in my garden. If the
਀挀愀爀搀漀漀渀猀 最爀漀眀 攀渀漀甀最栀 䤀 洀愀礀 攀瘀攀渀 琀爀礀 攀愀琀椀渀最 琀栀攀洀ⴀⴀ琀栀攀 氀攀愀瘀攀猀 愀爀攀 猀甀瀀瀀漀猀攀搀 琀漀ഊbe edible.
਀ഊDavid/Cariadoc
਀栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀眀眀眀⸀戀攀猀琀⸀挀漀洀⼀縀搀搀昀爀⼀ഊ
਀ഊDate: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 21:45:53 -0700
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀䰀愀甀爀愀 䌀⸀ 䴀椀渀渀椀挀欀∀ 㰀氀挀洀 愀琀 攀昀渀⸀漀爀最㸀ഊSubject: Re: SC - artichokes
਀ഊStefan li Rous wrote:
਀ഊ> There do appear to be at least two types of artichokes. One is
਀㸀 䔀甀爀漀瀀攀愀渀 愀渀搀 漀渀攀 椀猀 䄀洀攀爀椀挀愀渀⸀ 䘀爀漀洀 琀栀椀猀Ⰰ 䤀 椀洀愀最椀渀攀 眀栀愀琀 䤀 猀攀攀 椀渀ഊ> the vegetable counters here in the US is the "Jerusalem artichoke",
਀㸀 爀椀最栀琀㼀ഊ
਀一漀琀 愀爀漀甀渀搀 栀攀爀攀℀ 䜀攀渀攀爀愀氀氀礀 椀渀 洀礀 攀砀瀀攀爀椀攀渀挀攀Ⰰ 愀 ✀䨀攀爀甀猀愀氀攀洀 䄀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀✀ഊ(which a sort of starchy tuber-oid thing) is clearly labelled such. It
਀氀漀漀欀猀 开渀漀琀栀椀渀最开 氀椀欀攀 愀 猀琀愀渀搀愀爀搀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀⸀ 匀琀愀渀搀愀爀搀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀猀 愀爀攀ഊusually about the size of a softball, and look like giant thistle heads-
਀眀栀椀挀栀Ⰰ 漀昀 挀漀甀爀猀攀Ⰰ 椀猀 眀栀愀琀 琀栀攀礀 愀爀攀⸀ 吀栀攀礀 愀爀攀 最爀攀攀渀⸀ 䨀攀爀甀猀愀氀攀洀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀猀ഊare brown. They are nothing alike and are not interchangable. I don't
਀欀渀漀眀 眀栀礀 琀栀攀 渀愀洀攀 椀猀 琀栀攀 眀愀礀 椀琀 椀猀⸀ഊ 
਀䄀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀猀 愀爀攀 猀琀攀愀洀攀搀 漀爀 戀漀椀氀攀搀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 琀栀攀渀 礀漀甀 搀椀瀀 琀栀攀 氀攀愀瘀攀猀 ⠀椀渀 洀攀氀琀攀搀ഊbutter or mayonnaise, sometimes with lemon juice), and drag the inner
਀猀椀搀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀 氀攀愀瘀攀猀 漀瘀攀爀 礀漀甀爀 戀漀琀琀漀洀 琀攀攀琀栀Ⰰ 猀挀爀愀瀀椀渀最 漀昀昀 琀栀攀 猀漀昀琀 昀氀攀猀栀⸀ഊAll too delicious... *sigh* why do I feel like I've been writing soft
਀挀漀爀攀㼀 㬀ⴀ⤀ഊ
਀✀䰀愀椀渀椀攀ഊ
਀ഊDate: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 22:12:34 -0700
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 搀愀瘀椀搀 昀爀椀攀搀洀愀渀 㰀搀搀昀爀 愀琀 戀攀猀琀⸀挀漀洀㸀ഊSubject: Re: SC - artichokes
਀ഊAt 11:18 PM -0500 8/29/00, Stefan li Rous wrote:
਀㸀刀愀猀 搀攀挀氀愀爀攀搀㨀ഊ>>  melcnewt at netins.net writes:
਀㸀㸀  㰀㰀 漀眀 愀爀攀 琀栀攀猀攀 䨀攀爀甀猀愀氀攀洀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀猀  㸀㸀ഊ>>
਀㸀㸀  䨀攀爀甀猀愀氀攀洀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀猀 愀爀攀 渀攀眀 眀漀爀氀搀⸀ഊ>
਀㸀吀栀攀爀攀 搀漀 愀瀀瀀攀愀爀 琀漀 戀攀 愀琀 氀攀愀猀琀 琀眀漀 琀礀瀀攀猀 漀昀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀猀⸀ 伀渀攀 椀猀ഊ>European and one is American. From this, I imagine what I see in
਀㸀琀栀攀 瘀攀最攀琀愀戀氀攀 挀漀甀渀琀攀爀猀 栀攀爀攀 椀渀 琀栀攀 唀匀 椀猀 琀栀攀 ∀䨀攀爀甀猀愀氀攀洀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀∀Ⰰഊ>right?
਀ഊWrong.
਀ഊJerusalem artichoke is the root of a sunflower 
਀⠀∀䜀椀爀愀猀漀氀∀㴀∀䨀攀爀甀猀愀氀攀洀∀⤀⸀ 吀栀攀 戀甀搀 漀昀 愀 最椀愀渀琀 琀栀椀猀琀氀攀Ⰰ 攀愀琀攀渀 愀 氀攀愀昀 愀琀 ഊa time with melted butter or mayonaise, is artichoke--and is sold 
਀甀渀搀攀爀 琀栀愀琀 渀愀洀攀 椀渀 琀栀攀 唀⸀匀⸀ 䨀攀爀甀猀愀氀攀洀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀Ⰰ 椀渀 洀礀 攀砀瀀攀爀椀攀渀挀攀Ⰰ 椀猀 ഊalways sold under the full name.
਀ഊDoes anyone know why the entirely different American vegetable got 
਀挀愀氀氀攀搀 愀渀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀 愀琀 愀氀氀㼀ഊ
਀㸀䠀愀猀 愀渀礀漀渀攀 栀攀爀攀 琀爀椀攀搀 戀漀琀栀 漀昀ഊ>these? Perhaps using the same recipe? Master Cariadoc? If so, how much
਀㸀搀椀昀昀攀爀愀渀挀攀 椀猀 琀栀攀爀攀 戀攀琀眀攀攀渀 琀栀攀洀㼀ഊ
਀䄀猀 洀甀挀栀 愀猀 戀攀琀眀攀攀渀 氀攀琀琀甀挀攀 愀渀搀 瀀漀琀愀琀漀⸀ഊ- -- 
਀䐀愀瘀椀搀⼀䌀愀爀椀愀搀漀挀ഊhttp://www.daviddfriedman.com/
਀ഊ
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 圀攀搀Ⰰ ㌀　 䄀甀最 ㈀　　　 　㤀㨀㄀㤀㨀㌀㐀 ⴀ　　　　ഊFrom: "Nanna Rognvaldardottir" <nanna at idunn.is>
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀猀ഊ
਀䌀愀爀椀愀搀漀挀 眀爀漀琀攀㨀ഊ>Does anyone know why the entirely different American vegetable got
਀㸀挀愀氀氀攀搀 愀渀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀 愀琀 愀氀氀㼀ഊ
਀倀爀漀戀愀戀氀礀 戀攀挀愀甀猀攀 琀栀攀 昀椀爀猀琀 䔀甀爀漀瀀攀愀渀 眀栀漀 搀攀猀挀爀椀戀攀搀 琀栀攀洀 ⠀匀愀洀甀攀氀 搀攀 䌀栀愀洀瀀氀愀椀渀Ⰰഊwho encountered them on Cape Cod in 1605) thought they tasted like artichokes
਀⠀漀爀 挀愀爀搀漀漀渀猀Ⰰ 眀栀椀挀栀 愀爀攀 爀攀氀愀琀攀搀 琀漀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀猀⤀⸀ 䌀栀愀洀瀀氀愀椀渀 愀渀搀 䴀愀爀挀 䰀攀猀挀愀爀戀漀琀ഊreturned to France in 1607 and seem to have brought the vegetable back with
਀琀栀攀洀⸀ 吀攀渀 礀攀愀爀猀 氀愀琀攀爀Ⰰ 䰀攀猀挀愀爀戀漀琀 眀爀漀琀攀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 爀漀漀琀猀 眀攀爀攀 猀漀 瀀漀瀀甀氀愀爀 椀渀ഊFrance that "today all the gardens are full of them".
਀ഊNow the Jerusalem part is much more interesting. It is possibly a corruption
਀漀昀 䤀琀愀氀椀愀渀 ∀最椀爀愀猀漀氀攀∀ ⠀猀甀渀昀氀漀眀攀爀⤀⸀ 吀栀攀 愀氀琀攀爀渀愀琀椀瘀攀 琀栀攀漀爀礀 椀猀 琀栀愀琀 䨀攀爀甀猀愀氀攀洀ഊis a corruption of Terneuzen - a town in the Netherlands where artichokes
਀眀攀爀攀 最爀漀眀渀 椀渀 琀栀攀 攀愀爀氀礀 ㄀㜀琀栀 挀攀渀琀甀爀礀 ⴀ 愀 䐀甀琀挀栀 戀漀漀欀 漀昀 ㄀㘀㄀㠀 猀愀礀猀 琀栀攀 琀甀戀攀爀ഊis known in the Netherlands as the "artichoke-apple of Ter Neusen".
਀ഊThe French name topinambour is actually the name of a Brazilian tribe - some
਀渀愀琀椀瘀攀猀 眀攀爀攀 戀爀漀甀最栀琀 琀漀 倀愀爀椀猀 椀渀 ㄀㘀㄀㌀Ⰰ 瀀爀漀戀愀戀氀礀 愀爀爀椀瘀攀搀 愀琀 琀栀攀 猀愀洀攀 琀椀洀攀 愀猀ഊthe tuber was first seen in significiant quantities in the street markets,
਀愀渀搀 猀漀洀攀栀漀眀 琀栀攀 䤀渀搀椀愀渀猀 愀渀搀 琀栀攀 渀攀眀 瘀攀最攀琀愀戀氀攀 眀攀爀攀 洀椀砀攀搀 甀瀀Ⰰ 猀漀 昀漀爀ഊcenturies it was commonly believed that the topinambour came from South
਀䄀洀攀爀椀挀愀 ⠀椀渀 䘀爀愀渀挀攀 愀琀 氀攀愀猀琀 ⴀ 搀漀渀✀琀 欀渀漀眀 椀昀 琀栀椀猀 眀愀猀 愀氀猀漀 戀攀氀椀攀瘀攀搀 椀渀ഊEngland, for instance).
਀ഊNanna
਀ഊ
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 圀攀搀Ⰰ ㌀　 䄀甀最 ㈀　　　 　㤀㨀㌀㜀㨀㈀㌀ ⴀ　㐀　　ഊFrom: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀猀ഊ
਀搀愀瘀椀搀 昀爀椀攀搀洀愀渀 眀爀漀琀攀㨀 ഊ> Jerusalem artichoke is the root of a sunflower
਀㸀 ⠀∀䜀椀爀愀猀漀氀∀㴀∀䨀攀爀甀猀愀氀攀洀∀⤀⸀ 吀栀攀 戀甀搀 漀昀 愀 最椀愀渀琀 琀栀椀猀琀氀攀Ⰰ 攀愀琀攀渀 愀 氀攀愀昀 愀琀ഊ> a time with melted butter or mayonaise, is artichoke--and is sold
਀㸀 甀渀搀攀爀 琀栀愀琀 渀愀洀攀 椀渀 琀栀攀 唀⸀匀⸀ 䨀攀爀甀猀愀氀攀洀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀Ⰰ 椀渀 洀礀 攀砀瀀攀爀椀攀渀挀攀Ⰰ 椀猀ഊ> always sold under the full name.
਀ഊJerusalem artichokes are always, AFAIK, sold either with the adjective
਀∀䨀攀爀甀猀愀氀攀洀∀ 漀爀 甀渀搀攀爀 琀栀攀 渀愀洀攀 ∀猀甀渀挀栀漀欀攀猀∀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 渀攀瘀攀爀 挀愀氀氀攀搀 猀椀洀瀀氀礀ഊ"artichokes". Unqualified artichokes are green and thistly-looking, and
਀愀爀攀Ⰰ 眀攀氀氀Ⰰ 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀猀⸀ 䠀漀眀攀瘀攀爀Ⰰ 猀漀洀攀琀椀洀攀猀 猀琀漀爀攀猀 琀栀愀琀 猀攀氀氀 戀漀琀栀 甀猀攀 琀栀攀ഊqualifier of "globe artichokes" to distinguish them from "Jerusalem artichokes".
਀  ഊAdamantius
਀ഊ
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 圀攀搀Ⰰ ㌀　 䄀甀最 ㈀　　　 　㤀㨀㐀㘀㨀㔀㜀 䔀䐀吀ഊFrom: LrdRas at aol.com
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀猀ഊ
਀䔀甀爀漀瀀攀愀渀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀猀 漀爀 䜀氀漀戀攀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀猀 愀爀攀 昀氀漀眀攀爀 戀甀搀猀⸀ 吀栀攀礀 愀爀攀 最爀攀攀渀 愀渀搀 ഊconsist of overlapping scales. 
਀ഊar*ti*choke (noun)
਀嬀䤀琀愀氀椀愀渀 搀椀愀氀攀挀琀 愀爀琀椀挀椀漀挀挀漀Ⰰ 甀氀琀椀洀愀琀攀氀礀 昀爀漀洀 䄀爀愀戀椀挀 愀氀ⴀ欀栀甀爀猀栀甀昀 琀栀攀  ഊartichoke]
਀䘀椀爀猀琀 愀瀀瀀攀愀爀攀搀 ㄀㔀㌀　ഊ 1 : a tall composite herb (Cynara scolymus) like a thistle with coarse  
਀瀀椀渀渀愀琀攀氀礀 椀渀挀椀猀攀搀 氀攀愀瘀攀猀㬀 愀氀猀漀 㨀 椀琀猀 攀搀椀戀氀攀 椀洀洀愀琀甀爀攀 昀氀漀眀攀爀 栀攀愀搀 眀栀椀挀栀 椀猀  ഊcooked as a vegetable
਀⨀⨀⨀ഊ
਀䨀攀爀甀猀愀氀攀洀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀猀 愀爀攀 琀甀戀攀爀猀 眀栀椀挀栀 愀爀攀 挀爀攀愀洀 挀漀氀漀爀攀搀 愀渀搀 猀椀洀椀氀愀爀 椀渀 ഊappearance to a skinless extremely knotty potato.
਀ഊJe*ru*sa*lem artichoke (noun)
਀嬀䨀攀爀甀猀愀氀攀洀 戀礀 昀漀氀欀 攀琀礀洀漀氀漀最礀 昀爀漀洀 䤀琀愀氀椀愀渀 最椀爀愀猀漀氀攀 最椀爀愀猀漀氀攀崀ഊFirst appeared 1641
਀ 㨀 愀 瀀攀爀攀渀渀椀愀氀 䄀洀攀爀椀挀愀渀 猀甀渀昀氀漀眀攀爀 ⠀䠀攀氀椀愀渀琀栀甀猀 琀甀戀攀爀漀猀甀猀⤀ 眀椀搀攀氀礀 挀甀氀琀椀瘀愀琀攀搀 ഊfor its tubers that are used as a vegetable and as a livestock feed
਀ഊRas
਀ഊ
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 圀攀搀Ⰰ ㌀　 䄀甀最 ㈀　　　 ㈀㄀㨀㐀㄀㨀　㈀ ⴀ　㜀　　ഊFrom: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀猀ഊ
਀䤀琀✀猀 眀漀爀琀栀 渀漀琀椀渀最 琀栀愀琀 愀氀琀栀漀甀最栀 挀愀爀搀漀漀渀猀 愀爀攀 挀氀漀猀攀氀礀 爀攀氀愀琀攀搀 琀漀 ഊartichokes (the plant looks like an artichoke on steroids, with 
਀洀椀渀椀愀琀甀爀攀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀猀 漀渀 椀琀⤀Ⰰ 眀栀愀琀 瀀攀漀瀀氀攀 渀漀爀洀愀氀氀礀 攀愀琀 椀猀 琀栀攀 氀攀愀昀 漀昀 ഊthe cardoon not (as with the artichoke) the bud. So a cardoon recipe 
਀眀漀甀氀搀 戀攀 焀甀椀琀攀 搀椀昀昀攀爀攀渀琀 昀爀漀洀 愀 洀漀搀攀爀渀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀⸀ഊ- -- 
਀䐀愀瘀椀搀⼀䌀愀爀椀愀搀漀挀ഊhttp://www.daviddfriedman.com/
਀ഊ
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 䘀爀椀Ⰰ ㄀ 匀攀瀀 ㈀　　　 ㈀㄀㨀㈀㜀㨀㐀㜀 䔀䐀吀ഊFrom: LrdRas at aol.com
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀猀ഊ
਀猀琀攀昀愀渀 愀琀 琀攀砀愀猀⸀渀攀琀 眀爀椀琀攀猀㨀ഊ<< Now "Peel the cardoons"  >>
਀ഊWhen you cut a cardoon the stalk will string like a stalk of old celery or 
਀瀀攀攀氀 搀漀眀渀 氀椀欀攀 愀 猀琀愀氀欀 漀昀 爀栀甀戀愀爀戀⸀ 吀栀愀琀 椀猀 眀栀愀琀 椀猀 洀攀愀渀琀 戀礀 ✀瀀攀攀氀Ⰰ✀ 䤀䴀伀⸀ഊ
਀刀愀猀ഊ
਀ഊDate: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 18:34:50 GMT
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 漀爀椀漀渀 愀琀 洀愀椀氀戀愀最⸀挀漀洀ഊSubject: SC - More Fuel for the Cardoon Fire
਀ഊMore than you ever wanted to know about Cardoons...
਀栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀眀眀眀⸀洀猀甀攀⸀洀猀甀⸀攀搀甀⼀洀猀甀攀⼀椀洀瀀⼀洀漀搀　㌀⼀　㄀㜀　㄀㐀㌀㈀⸀栀琀洀氀ഊ
਀䄀氀攀砀ഊ
਀ഊFrom: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
਀吀漀㨀 㰀猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最㸀ഊDate: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 06:36:46 -0600
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 䄀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀 倀椀攀ഊ
਀䤀✀瘀攀 戀攀攀渀 瀀氀愀礀椀渀最 椀渀 琀栀攀 欀椀琀挀栀攀渀 愀最愀椀渀⸀ഊ
਀䈀攀愀爀ഊ
਀吀漀 䴀愀欀攀 愀渀 䄀爀琀椀挀栀漀愀欀 倀礀攀⸀  吀愀欀攀 琀栀攀 戀漀琀琀漀洀猀 漀昀 猀椀砀 䄀爀琀椀挀栀漀愀欀猀 䈀漀礀氀攀搀 瘀攀爀礀ഊtender, put them in a dish, and some Vinegar over them.  Season them with
਀䜀椀渀最攀爀 愀渀搀 匀甀最愀爀Ⰰ 愀 氀椀琀琀氀攀 䴀愀挀攀 圀栀漀氀攀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 瀀甀琀 琀栀攀洀 椀渀 愀 䌀漀昀昀椀渀 漀昀 倀愀猀琀攀⸀ഊWhen you lay them in, lay some Marrow and Dates slices, and a few Raisons of
਀琀栀攀 匀甀渀 椀渀 琀栀攀 戀漀琀琀漀洀 眀椀琀栀 愀 最漀漀搀 猀琀漀爀攀 漀昀 戀甀琀琀攀爀⸀  圀栀攀渀 椀琀 椀猀 栀愀氀昀 戀愀欀攀搀Ⰰഊtake a Gill of Sack, being boyled first with Sugar and a peel of Orange.
਀倀甀琀 椀琀 椀渀琀漀 琀栀攀 倀礀攀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 猀攀琀 椀琀 椀渀 琀栀攀 漀瘀攀渀 愀最愀椀渀Ⰰ 琀椀氀氀 礀漀甀 甀猀攀 椀琀⸀ഊ
਀愀琀琀爀椀戀甀琀攀搀 琀漀 䠀甀最栀 倀氀愀琀琀Ⰰ 吀栀攀 䄀挀挀漀洀瀀氀椀猀栀琀 䰀愀搀礀猀 䐀攀氀椀最栀琀ഊ
਀㄀  㠀 漀爀 㤀 椀渀挀栀 瀀椀攀 猀栀攀氀氀ഊ1 14 ounce can quartered artichoke hearts
਀㈀ 吀愀戀氀攀猀瀀漀漀渀猀 漀昀 挀椀搀攀爀 瘀椀渀攀最愀爀ഊ1 teaspoon ginger
਀㐀 吀愀戀氀攀猀瀀漀漀渀猀 漀昀 猀甀最愀爀ഊ1/2 teaspoon mace
਀㄀ 琀攀愀猀瀀漀漀渀 最爀愀琀攀搀 漀爀愀渀最攀 瀀攀攀氀ഊ1/4 cup raisins
਀㄀⼀㈀ 挀甀瀀 挀栀漀瀀瀀攀搀 漀爀 猀氀椀挀攀搀 搀愀琀攀猀ഊ2 Tablespoons of butter
਀㄀ 吀愀戀氀攀猀瀀漀漀渀 漀昀 洀愀爀爀漀眀 ⠀漀瀀琀椀漀渀愀氀⤀ഊ1 Cup Dry Sherry
਀ഊBlind bake the pie shell 350 degrees F for 10 minutes.
਀ഊMix vinegar, one tablespoon of sugar, ginger and mace in a bowl.
਀䐀爀愀椀渀 愀渀搀 爀椀渀猀攀 琀栀攀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀 栀攀愀爀琀猀⸀  䄀搀搀 琀漀 琀栀攀 瘀椀渀攀最愀爀 洀椀砀琀甀爀攀 愀渀搀 琀甀爀渀ഊto coat thoroughly.  Let stand for a half hour.
਀倀甀琀 琀栀攀 䐀爀礀 匀栀攀爀爀礀Ⰰ 琀栀爀攀攀 琀愀戀氀攀猀瀀漀漀渀猀 漀昀 猀甀最愀爀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 琀栀攀 漀爀愀渀最攀 瀀攀攀氀 椀渀 愀ഊsmall sauce pan and bring to a boil.  Cook to form a thin syrup.
਀䴀椀砀 琀栀攀 搀愀琀攀 愀渀搀 爀愀椀猀椀渀猀 愀渀搀 猀瀀爀攀愀搀 琀栀攀洀 椀渀 琀栀攀 戀漀琀琀漀洀 漀昀 琀栀攀 瀀椀攀 猀栀攀氀氀⸀ഊAdd the marrow.
਀匀瀀爀攀愀搀 琀栀攀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀 栀攀愀爀琀猀 漀渀 琀漀瀀 漀昀 琀栀攀 搀愀琀攀猀Ⰰ 爀愀椀猀椀渀猀 愀渀搀 洀愀爀爀漀眀⸀ഊDot the top of the pie with butter.
਀倀漀甀爀 琀栀攀 匀栀攀爀爀礀 猀礀爀甀瀀 漀瘀攀爀 琀栀攀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀猀⸀ഊCover with aluminum foil and bake at 350 degrees F for 30 minutes.
਀ഊNotes:
਀倀椀攀 猀栀攀氀氀 眀愀猀 愀 猀琀愀渀搀愀爀搀 ㌀ⴀ㈀ⴀ㄀ 搀漀甀最栀⸀ഊCanned artichokes were used because they were available.
਀䤀 栀愀搀 最爀漀甀渀搀 洀愀挀攀 愀瘀愀椀氀愀戀氀攀⸀  䤀琀 眀愀猀 愀 氀椀琀琀氀攀 漀氀搀⸀  䘀爀攀猀栀 洀愀挀攀 洀椀最栀琀 爀攀焀甀椀爀攀ഊless.
਀吀栀攀 洀愀爀爀漀眀 眀愀猀 氀攀昀琀 漀昀昀Ⰰ 愀猀 䤀 眀愀猀 瀀爀攀瀀愀爀椀渀最 琀栀攀 瀀椀攀 昀漀爀 愀 瘀攀最攀琀愀爀椀愀渀⸀ഊI am considering making the syrup thicker.
਀䤀 愀洀 挀漀渀猀椀搀攀爀椀渀最 戀愀欀椀渀最 琀栀攀 昀爀甀椀琀 昀漀爀 昀椀昀琀攀攀渀 洀椀渀甀琀攀猀 琀栀攀渀 愀搀搀椀渀最 琀栀攀 猀礀爀甀瀀ഊto see what changes occur in the texture.
਀吀栀攀 愀氀甀洀椀渀甀洀 昀漀椀氀 欀攀攀瀀猀 琀栀攀 挀爀甀猀琀 昀爀漀洀 戀甀爀渀椀渀最 愀渀搀 栀攀氀瀀猀 琀栀攀 瀀椀攀 爀攀琀愀椀渀ഊmoisture.
਀吀栀攀 搀椀猀栀 椀猀 瀀愀氀愀琀愀戀氀攀 挀漀氀搀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 䤀 瀀爀攀昀攀爀 椀琀 眀愀爀洀⸀ഊ
਀ഊFrom: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
਀吀漀㨀 㰀猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最㸀ഊSubject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Artichoke Pie
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 吀栀甀Ⰰ 㘀 䐀攀挀 ㈀　　㄀ ㈀　㨀㄀㜀㨀㌀㔀 ⴀ　㘀　　ഊ
਀㸀吀栀攀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀 猀愀礀猀 ∀愀 氀椀琀琀氀攀 䴀愀挀攀 圀栀漀氀攀∀⸀ 圀栀愀琀 椀猀 洀攀愀渀琀 戀礀 ∀圀栀漀氀攀∀ 椀渀ഊ>this? It's probably not the whole nut since the outside is nutmeg
਀㸀愀渀搀 琀栀攀 椀渀猀椀搀攀 椀猀 洀愀挀攀Ⰰ 爀椀最栀琀㼀 䤀猀 ∀眀栀漀氀攀∀ 樀甀猀琀 戀攀椀渀最 椀最渀漀爀攀搀 椀渀ഊ>this redaction?
਀ഊNutmeg is the seed.  Mace is a covering that wraps the nutmeg.  Both are
਀椀渀猀椀搀攀 漀昀 愀 瀀漀搀 漀爀 昀爀甀椀琀⸀  䈀氀愀搀攀 漀爀 眀栀漀氀攀 洀愀挀攀 愀爀攀 琀栀攀 椀渀渀攀爀 挀漀瘀攀爀椀渀最ഊremoved from the nutmeg and dried.  I used ground mace because I had no
਀戀氀愀搀攀 洀愀挀攀⸀ഊ
਀㸀䄀渀搀 愀爀攀 ∀刀愀椀猀漀渀猀 漀昀 琀栀攀 匀甀渀∀ 愀挀琀甀愀氀氀礀 樀甀猀琀 爀愀椀猀椀渀猀㼀 圀栀礀 琀栀攀 ∀漀昀 琀栀攀ഊ>Sun"? Were grapes also dried in ovens? Or were there other fruits
਀㸀琀栀愀渀 琀栀攀 最爀愀瀀攀 琀栀愀琀 眀栀攀渀 搀爀椀攀搀 眀攀爀攀 挀愀氀氀攀搀 ∀爀愀椀猀椀渀猀∀㼀ഊ>
਀㸀吀栀愀渀欀猀Ⰰഊ>  Stefan
਀ഊModernly the term raisin means a dried grape, but it derives from the Latin
਀∀爀愀挀攀洀甀猀∀ 洀攀愀渀椀渀最 ∀戀甀渀挀栀 漀昀 最爀愀瀀攀猀⸀∀  䤀渀 䴀椀搀搀氀攀 䔀渀最氀椀猀栀 漀爀 伀氀搀 䘀爀攀渀挀栀 琀栀攀ഊterm appears to have been used to describe grapes, while "raisin of the sun"
਀椀猀 ∀搀爀椀攀搀 最爀愀瀀攀⸀∀  䤀 栀愀瘀攀渀✀琀 挀栀愀猀攀搀 琀栀攀 搀攀爀椀瘀愀琀椀漀渀 昀甀氀氀礀 猀漀 琀愀欀攀 琀栀愀琀ഊcommentary with a grain of salt.
਀ഊBear
਀ഊ
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 匀愀琀Ⰰ 㔀 䨀甀氀 ㈀　　㌀ 　㠀㨀㈀㤀㨀㌀㄀ ⴀ　㐀　　ഊFrom: Jane Boyko <jboyko at magma.ca>
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 䴀椀搀搀氀攀 䔀愀猀琀攀爀渀 䘀漀漀搀ഊTo: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
਀ഊIn "The Food Chronology" by James Trager he notes that the artichoke is used
਀戀礀 琀栀攀 刀漀洀愀渀猀⸀  䠀攀 焀甀漀琀攀猀 倀氀椀渀礀✀猀 ∀䠀椀猀琀漀爀椀愀 一愀琀甀爀愀氀椀猀∀⸀  吀栀椀猀 椀猀 椀渀 琀栀攀 ㄀猀琀ഊcentury.  (p31)   The next mention of the artichoke is in 1533 and I will
਀焀甀漀琀攀 栀攀爀攀  ∀䌀漀漀欀猀 愀琀琀攀渀搀椀渀最 䌀愀琀栀攀爀椀渀攀 搀攀✀ 䴀攀搀椀挀椀 椀渀琀爀漀搀甀挀攀 琀漀 䘀爀愀渀挀攀 猀甀挀栀ഊvegetables as broccoli, globe artichokes ... fonds d'artichauts...."  
਀⠀瀀㤀㄀⤀⸀ഊ
਀䄀猀 琀漀 琀栀攀 䨀攀爀甀猀愀氀攀洀 䄀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀 椀琀 猀攀攀洀猀 琀漀 戀攀 愀 渀攀眀 眀漀爀氀搀 瀀氀愀渀琀⸀  䘀椀爀猀琀ഊmention of it is in 1609 when the Virginia colony finds that its' food stocks
਀栀愀瘀攀 爀甀渀 氀漀眀⸀  匀甀爀瘀椀瘀漀爀猀 琀愀欀攀 漀渀 搀椀昀昀攀爀攀渀琀 琀愀猀欀猀 ⠀椀⸀攀⸀ 栀甀渀琀椀渀最Ⰰ 昀椀猀栀椀渀最 愀渀搀ഊgathering) of which they gather "...Jerusalem artichokes and other wild
਀瀀氀愀渀琀猀∀ ⠀瀀㄀㄀㌀⤀⸀  䤀琀 椀猀 愀最愀椀渀 洀攀渀琀椀漀渀攀搀 椀渀 ㄀㘀㄀㘀 眀椀琀栀 琀栀攀 䘀爀攀渀挀栀 攀砀瀀氀漀爀攀爀ഊSamuel de Champlain.  He introduces the Jerusalem artichoke to France in
਀㄀㘀㄀㘀⸀  䄀琀 昀椀爀猀琀 椀琀 椀猀 欀渀漀眀渀 愀猀 琀栀攀 䌀愀渀愀搀椀愀渀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 攀愀爀琀栀 瀀攀愀爀  ഊetc.
਀吀栀攀爀攀 椀猀 愀戀猀漀氀甀琀攀氀礀 渀漀 洀攀渀琀椀漀渀 漀昀 栀漀眀 琀栀攀 䨀攀爀甀猀愀氀攀洀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀 戀攀挀愀洀攀  ഊknown as the Jerusalem artichoke.
਀ഊOkay, I have become too curious.
਀ഊHere is an interesting url that recounts some of the history and  
਀渀愀洀椀渀最 漀昀 琀栀攀 䨀攀爀甀猀愀氀攀洀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀⸀  栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀眀眀眀⸀瘀攀最瀀愀爀愀搀椀猀攀⸀挀漀洀⼀栀椀最栀攀猀琀瀀攀爀挀栀㈀㘀⸀栀琀洀氀ഊ
਀䄀氀猀漀 椀昀 礀漀甀 挀栀攀挀欀 漀甀琀 䄀瀀椀挀椀甀猀 琀栀攀爀攀 愀爀攀 琀栀爀攀攀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀猀 甀猀椀渀最 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀猀㨀ഊArtichokes with Fish-pickle dressing (Carduos)
਀䄀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀猀 眀椀琀栀 䠀漀琀 䠀攀爀戀 搀爀攀猀猀椀渀最 ⠀䄀氀椀琀攀爀 挀愀爀搀甀漀猀⤀ഊCumin spiced artichokes (Aliter carduos elixos - steamed artichokes).
਀ഊHope this helps and clears up some of the questions surrounding  
਀愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀猀⸀ഊ
਀䴀愀爀椀渀愀ഊ
਀ഊDate: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 11:06:57 -0500
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀吀攀爀爀礀 䐀攀挀欀攀爀∀ 㰀琀⸀搀⸀搀攀挀欀攀爀 愀琀 眀漀爀氀搀渀攀琀⸀愀琀琀⸀渀攀琀㸀ഊSubject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Middle Eastern Food
਀吀漀㨀 ∀䌀漀漀欀猀 眀椀琀栀椀渀 琀栀攀 匀䌀䄀∀ 㰀猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最㸀ഊ
਀吀爀愀最攀爀 椀猀 愀 戀愀搀 猀漀甀爀挀攀 琀漀 焀甀漀琀攀 眀椀琀栀漀甀琀 搀攀攀瀀攀爀 椀渀瘀攀猀琀椀最愀琀椀漀渀⸀  䠀攀 搀漀攀猀 渀漀琀ഊdifferentiate between fact, suppositions and apocryphal tales.  I 
਀最攀渀攀爀愀氀氀礀 甀猀攀 吀爀愀最攀爀 愀猀 愀 猀琀愀爀琀椀渀最 瀀漀椀渀琀 昀漀爀 昀甀爀琀栀攀爀 爀攀猀攀愀爀挀栀⸀ഊ
਀䄀 焀甀椀挀欀 挀栀攀挀欀 漀昀 琀栀攀 倀攀渀最甀椀渀 倀氀椀渀礀 猀栀漀眀猀 渀漀 爀攀昀攀爀攀渀挀攀 琀漀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀猀 漀爀ഊcardoons, however it is an abridged edition and a complete reference may
਀猀栀漀眀 猀漀洀攀琀栀椀渀最⸀  䄀渀礀 漀昀 琀栀攀 挀漀洀洀攀渀琀猀 愀戀漀甀琀 琀栀攀 ∀挀漀漀欀猀 䌀愀琀栀攀爀椀渀攀 搀攀 䴀攀搀椀挀椀ഊbrought to France with her" is immediately suspect.  She was from a branch
਀漀昀 琀栀攀 䴀攀搀椀挀椀猀 眀椀琀栀 爀攀搀甀挀攀搀 昀漀爀琀甀渀攀猀 昀爀漀洀 栀愀瘀椀渀最 戀攀攀渀 爀甀渀 漀甀琀 漀昀 䘀氀漀爀攀渀挀攀 戀礀ഊcivil unrest.  Most of the retinue at her marriage belonged to her Uncle,
਀琀栀攀 倀漀瀀攀⸀  䄀渀搀 椀琀 眀愀猀 渀漀琀 甀渀琀椀氀 栀攀爀 刀攀最攀渀挀礀 昀漀爀 栀攀爀 猀漀渀 琀栀愀琀 猀栀攀 最愀椀渀攀搀 愀渀礀ഊreal power in France.
਀ഊI think you may find the Jerusalem artichoke referenced in Thomas Hariot's A
਀䈀爀椀攀昀攀 愀渀搀 吀爀甀攀 刀攀瀀漀爀琀 漀昀 琀栀攀 一攀眀 䘀漀甀渀搀 䰀愀渀搀 椀渀 嘀椀爀最椀渀椀愀 ⠀㄀㔀㠀㠀⤀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 渀漀琀ഊunder that name.
਀ഊThe Flower and Rosenbaum edition of Apicius identifies the artichoke
਀爀攀昀攀爀攀渀挀攀搀 戀礀 琀栀攀 琀攀爀洀 ∀䌀愀爀搀甀甀猀∀ 愀猀 戀攀椀渀最 䌀礀渀愀爀愀 挀愀爀搀甀渀挀甀氀甀猀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 挀愀爀搀漀漀渀Ⰰഊalthough they believe it to be "a species of globe artichoke."
਀ഊThe web site fails to provide particulars about where they got much of their
਀椀渀昀漀爀洀愀琀椀漀渀Ⰰ 洀愀欀椀渀最 椀琀 搀椀昀昀椀挀甀氀琀 琀漀 瘀攀爀椀昀礀 琀栀攀椀爀 栀椀猀琀漀爀礀⸀  䤀琀 猀栀漀甀氀搀 戀攀ഊtaken with a grain of salt.
਀ഊBear
਀ഊ
਀㸀 䤀渀 ∀吀栀攀 䘀漀漀搀 䌀栀爀漀渀漀氀漀最礀∀ 戀礀 䨀愀洀攀猀 吀爀愀最攀爀 栀攀 渀漀琀攀猀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀 椀猀 甀猀攀搀ഊ> by the Romans.  He quotes Pliny's "Historia Naturalis".  This is in the 1st
਀㸀 挀攀渀琀甀爀礀⸀  ⠀瀀㌀㄀⤀   吀栀攀 渀攀砀琀 洀攀渀琀椀漀渀 漀昀 琀栀攀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀 椀猀 椀渀 ㄀㔀㌀㌀ 愀渀搀 䤀 眀椀氀氀ഊ> quote here  "Cooks attending Catherine de' Medici introduce to France such
਀㸀 瘀攀最攀琀愀戀氀攀猀 愀猀 戀爀漀挀挀漀氀椀Ⰰ 最氀漀戀攀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀猀 ⸀⸀⸀ 昀漀渀搀猀 搀✀愀爀琀椀挀栀愀甀琀猀⸀⸀⸀⸀∀ ⠀瀀㤀㄀⤀⸀ഊ>
਀㸀 䄀猀 琀漀 琀栀攀 䨀攀爀甀猀愀氀攀洀 䄀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀 椀琀 猀攀攀洀猀 琀漀 戀攀 愀 渀攀眀 眀漀爀氀搀 瀀氀愀渀琀⸀  䘀椀爀猀琀ഊ> mention of it is in 1609 when the Virginia colony finds that its' food stocks
਀㸀 栀愀瘀攀 爀甀渀 氀漀眀⸀  匀甀爀瘀椀瘀漀爀猀 琀愀欀攀 漀渀 搀椀昀昀攀爀攀渀琀 琀愀猀欀猀 ⠀椀⸀攀⸀ 栀甀渀琀椀渀最Ⰰ 昀椀猀栀椀渀最 愀渀搀ഊ> gathering) of which they gather "...Jerusalem artichokes and other wild
਀㸀 瀀氀愀渀琀猀∀ ⠀瀀㄀㄀㌀⤀⸀  䤀琀 椀猀 愀最愀椀渀 洀攀渀琀椀漀渀攀搀 椀渀 ㄀㘀㄀㘀 眀椀琀栀 琀栀攀 䘀爀攀渀挀栀 攀砀瀀氀漀爀攀爀ഊ> Samuel de Champlain.  He introduces the Jerusalem artichoke to France in
਀㸀 ㄀㘀㄀㘀⸀  䄀琀 昀椀爀猀琀 椀琀 椀猀 欀渀漀眀渀 愀猀 琀栀攀 䌀愀渀愀搀椀愀渀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 攀愀爀琀栀 瀀攀愀爀 攀琀挀⸀ഊ> There is absolutely no mention of how the Jerusalem artichoke became 
਀㸀 欀渀漀眀渀 愀猀 琀栀攀 䨀攀爀甀猀愀氀攀洀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀⸀ഊ>
਀㸀ഊ> Here is an interesting url that recounts some of the history and 
਀㸀 渀愀洀椀渀最 漀昀ഊ> the Jerusalem artichoke.  
਀㸀 栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀眀眀眀⸀瘀攀最瀀愀爀愀搀椀猀攀⸀挀漀洀⼀栀椀最栀攀猀琀瀀攀爀挀栀㈀㘀⸀栀琀洀氀ഊ>
਀㸀 䄀氀猀漀 椀昀 礀漀甀 挀栀攀挀欀 漀甀琀 䄀瀀椀挀椀甀猀 琀栀攀爀攀 愀爀攀 琀栀爀攀攀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀猀 甀猀椀渀最 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀猀㨀ഊ> Artichokes with Fish-pickle dressing (Carduos)
਀㸀 䄀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀猀 眀椀琀栀 䠀漀琀 䠀攀爀戀 搀爀攀猀猀椀渀最 ⠀䄀氀椀琀攀爀 挀愀爀搀甀漀猀⤀ഊ> Cumin spiced artichokes (Aliter carduos elixos - steamed artichokes).
਀㸀ഊ> Hope this helps and clears up some of the questions surrounding 
਀㸀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀猀⸀ഊ>
਀㸀 䴀愀爀椀渀愀ഊ
਀ഊDate: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 10:22:55 -0700
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 搀愀瘀椀搀 昀爀椀攀搀洀愀渀 㰀搀搀昀爀 愀琀 搀愀瘀椀搀搀昀爀椀攀搀洀愀渀⸀挀漀洀㸀ഊSubject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Middle Eastern Food
਀吀漀㨀 䌀漀漀欀猀 眀椀琀栀椀渀 琀栀攀 匀䌀䄀 㰀猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最㸀ഊ
਀㸀 䤀渀 ∀吀栀攀 䘀漀漀搀 䌀栀爀漀渀漀氀漀最礀∀ 戀礀 䨀愀洀攀猀 吀爀愀最攀爀 栀攀 渀漀琀攀猀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀 椀猀 甀猀攀搀ഊ> by the Romans.  He quotes Pliny's "Historia Naturalis".  This is in the 1st
਀㸀 挀攀渀琀甀爀礀⸀  ⠀瀀㌀㄀⤀   吀栀攀 渀攀砀琀 洀攀渀琀椀漀渀 漀昀 琀栀攀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀 椀猀 椀渀 ㄀㔀㌀㌀ 愀渀搀 䤀 眀椀氀氀ഊ> quote here  "Cooks attending Catherine de' Medici introduce to France such
਀㸀 瘀攀最攀琀愀戀氀攀猀 愀猀 戀爀漀挀挀漀氀椀Ⰰ 最氀漀戀攀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀猀 ⸀⸀⸀ 昀漀渀搀猀 搀✀愀爀琀椀挀栀愀甀琀猀⸀⸀⸀⸀∀ ⠀瀀㤀㄀⤀⸀ഊ
਀吀栀攀 瀀爀漀戀氀攀洀 椀猀 搀椀猀琀椀渀最甀椀猀栀椀渀最 爀攀昀攀爀攀渀挀攀猀 琀漀 琀栀攀 挀愀爀搀漀漀渀 昀爀漀洀ഊreferences to the artichoke. While I gather some people still
਀椀渀琀攀爀瀀爀攀琀 琀栀攀 挀氀愀猀猀椀挀愀氀 爀攀昀攀爀攀渀挀攀猀 愀猀 搀攀猀挀爀椀戀椀渀最 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀猀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 洀漀爀攀ഊcommon view seems to be that Latin "cynara" etc. refer to the
਀挀愀爀搀漀漀渀⸀ 䄀瀀椀挀椀甀猀 愀挀琀甀愀氀氀礀 甀猀攀猀 ∀挀愀爀搀甀漀猀⸀∀ഊ
਀吀栀攀 瀀氀愀渀琀猀 愀爀攀 瘀攀爀礀 猀椀洀椀氀愀爀ⴀⴀ挀愀爀搀漀漀渀猀 氀漀漀欀 氀椀欀攀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀 瀀氀愀渀琀猀 漀渀ഊsteroids (I have both growing here). But the "artichoke" part of the
਀挀愀爀搀漀漀渀 椀猀 瘀攀爀礀 猀洀愀氀氀ⴀⴀ礀漀甀 挀愀渀 戀漀椀氀 椀琀 愀渀搀 攀愀琀 椀琀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 渀漀戀漀搀礀 戀甀琀 洀礀ഊchildren would bother. What you eat is the stalk. My understanding is
਀琀栀愀琀 渀漀渀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀 挀氀愀猀猀椀挀愀氀 爀攀昀攀爀攀渀挀攀猀 搀攀猀挀爀椀戀攀 攀愀琀椀渀最 琀栀攀 昀氀漀眀攀爀 戀甀搀Ⰰഊthe way you do with an artichoke, and some refer to eating the stalk.
਀ഊ> Also if you check out Apicius there are three recipes using artichokes:
਀㸀 䄀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀猀 眀椀琀栀 䘀椀猀栀ⴀ瀀椀挀欀氀攀 搀爀攀猀猀椀渀最 ⠀䌀愀爀搀甀漀猀⤀ഊ> Artichokes with Hot Herb dressing (Aliter carduos)
਀㸀 䌀甀洀椀渀 猀瀀椀挀攀搀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀猀 ⠀䄀氀椀琀攀爀 挀愀爀搀甀漀猀 攀氀椀砀漀猀 ⴀ 猀琀攀愀洀攀搀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀猀⤀⸀ഊ
਀刀攀愀搀椀渀最 琀栀攀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀猀Ⰰ 琀栀攀礀 猀漀甀渀搀 爀愀琀栀攀爀 洀漀爀攀 挀漀渀猀椀猀琀攀渀琀 眀椀琀栀 挀愀爀搀漀漀渀猀ഊ(cook the stalk as an edible vegetable) than with artichokes.
਀ⴀⴀ  ഊDavid/Cariadoc
਀栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀眀眀眀⸀搀愀瘀椀搀搀昀爀椀攀搀洀愀渀⸀挀漀洀⼀ഊ
਀ഊDate: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 13:24:20 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 䌀栀爀椀猀琀椀愀渀攀 㰀挀栀爀椀猀琀椀愀渀攀琀爀甀攀 愀琀 攀愀爀琀栀氀椀渀欀⸀渀攀琀㸀ഊSubject: [Sca-cooks] Cardoons vs. artichokes
਀吀漀㨀 猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最ഊ
਀吀栀攀爀攀 眀愀猀 愀 焀甀攀猀琀椀漀渀 昀爀漀洀 䌀愀猀猀椀攀 愀戀漀甀琀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 猀漀洀攀 ഊpondering from Duke Cariadoc about whether artichokes were found 
਀攀愀爀氀椀攀爀 椀渀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 琀栀愀渀 琀栀攀 ㄀㔀　　猀⸀ഊ
਀䄀挀挀漀爀搀椀渀最 琀漀 琀栀椀猀 攀猀猀愀礀 戀礀 䌀氀椀昀昀漀爀搀 䄀⸀ 圀爀椀最栀琀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 攀砀瀀攀爀琀猀 愀爀攀 猀漀洀攀眀栀愀琀 ഊcertain that the artichoke was cultivated from the wild cardoon, 
਀瀀漀猀猀椀戀氀礀 戀礀 琀栀攀 䈀攀爀戀攀爀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 琀栀愀琀 愀琀 氀攀愀猀琀 戀礀 ㄀㔀㌀㘀Ⰰ 琀栀攀礀 眀攀爀攀 欀渀漀眀渀 椀渀 ഊItaly, although one writer at the time in Venice asserts that 
਀愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀猀 挀漀甀氀搀 漀渀氀礀 戀攀 昀漀甀渀搀 椀渀 琀栀攀 最愀爀搀攀渀猀 漀昀 琀栀攀 䴀漀漀爀椀猀栀 焀甀愀爀琀攀爀⸀ഊ
਀栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀眀眀眀⸀挀氀椀昀昀漀爀搀愀眀爀椀最栀琀⸀挀漀洀⼀栀椀猀琀漀爀礀⼀愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀⸀栀琀洀氀ഊ
਀吀栀攀爀攀 猀攀攀洀 琀漀 戀攀 愀 氀漀琀 漀昀 椀渀琀攀爀攀猀琀椀渀最 戀漀漀欀猀 椀渀 䴀爀⸀ 圀爀椀最栀琀✀猀 ഊbibliography for this essay, but most are in French, Latin, and 
਀匀瀀愀渀椀猀栀⸀ 䤀 眀漀渀搀攀爀 椀昀 愀渀礀 漀昀 琀栀攀洀 栀愀瘀攀 戀攀攀渀 琀爀愀渀猀氀愀琀攀搀 椀渀琀漀 䔀渀最氀椀猀栀⸀ഊ
਀圀栀愀琀✀猀 爀攀愀氀氀礀 挀漀渀昀甀猀椀渀最 昀漀爀 洀攀 椀猀 琀栀愀琀 洀礀 匀椀挀椀氀椀愀渀 最爀愀渀搀洀漀琀栀攀爀 ഊinterchangeably used "artichoke" and "cardoon" to refer to the 
਀最氀漀戀攀ⴀ猀琀礀氀攀 瘀攀最攀琀愀戀氀攀 眀攀 愀爀攀 昀愀洀椀氀椀愀爀 眀椀琀栀⸀ 䈀甀琀 眀椀琀栀 挀愀爀搀漀漀渀猀Ⰰ 礀漀甀 攀愀琀 ഊthe stems, not the bracts.
਀ഊGianotta
਀ഊ
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 䴀漀渀Ⰰ ㈀　 匀攀瀀 ㈀　　㐀 ㈀㄀㨀　㐀㨀㐀㔀 ⴀ　㜀　　ഊFrom: Mark Hendershott <crimlaw at jeffnet.org>
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 䌀愀爀搀漀漀渀猀 瘀猀⸀ 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀猀ഊTo: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
਀ഊOur garden has a couple of cardoon plants.  We've tried to eat the stems a
਀挀漀甀瀀氀攀 漀昀 琀椀洀攀 戀甀琀 昀漀甀渀搀 琀栀攀洀 攀砀琀爀攀洀攀氀礀 戀椀琀琀攀爀⸀  圀栀愀琀 愀爀攀 眀攀 搀漀椀渀最ഊwrong?  Secondary use:  cut the flowers with a long stem as soon as they
਀愀爀攀 昀甀氀氀礀 漀瀀攀渀Ⰰ 瀀氀愀挀攀 搀爀礀 椀渀 愀 瘀愀猀攀 漀爀 栀愀渀最 甀瀀猀椀搀攀 搀漀眀渀⸀  吀栀攀礀 搀爀礀  ഊquickly and last for a long time.
਀ഊSimon Sinneghe
਀䈀爀椀愀爀漀愀欀Ⰰ 匀甀洀洀椀琀猀Ⰰ 䄀渀 吀椀爀ഊ
਀ഊDate: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 23:05:41 -0700
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 䐀愀瘀椀搀 䘀爀椀攀搀洀愀渀 㰀搀搀昀爀 愀琀 搀愀瘀椀搀搀昀爀椀攀搀洀愀渀⸀挀漀洀㸀ഊSubject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Cardoons vs. artichokes
਀吀漀㨀 䌀漀漀欀猀 眀椀琀栀椀渀 琀栀攀 匀䌀䄀 㰀猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最㸀ഊ
਀㸀 伀甀爀 最愀爀搀攀渀 栀愀猀 愀 挀漀甀瀀氀攀 漀昀 挀愀爀搀漀漀渀 瀀氀愀渀琀猀⸀  圀攀✀瘀攀 琀爀椀攀搀 琀漀 攀愀琀 琀栀攀ഊ> stems a couple of time but found them extremely bitter.  What are we
਀㸀 搀漀椀渀最 眀爀漀渀最㼀ഊ
਀吀漀 戀攀最椀渀 眀椀琀栀Ⰰ 礀漀甀 栀愀瘀攀 琀漀 最攀琀 琀栀攀洀 爀攀愀猀漀渀愀戀氀礀 礀漀甀渀最⸀ 䈀攀礀漀渀搀 琀栀愀琀Ⰰഊyou are supposed to pull out the fibers. If you do a web search for
਀∀挀愀爀搀漀漀渀Ⰰ∀ 礀漀甀 猀栀漀甀氀搀 戀攀 愀戀氀攀 琀漀 昀椀渀搀 洀漀搀攀爀渀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀猀 眀椀琀栀 琀栀攀ഊrelevant information.
਀ⴀⴀ ഊDavid/Cariadoc
਀眀眀眀⸀搀愀瘀椀搀搀昀爀椀攀搀洀愀渀⸀挀漀洀ഊ
਀ഊDate: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 08:49:45 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 䌀栀爀椀猀琀椀愀渀攀 㰀挀栀爀椀猀琀椀愀渀攀琀爀甀攀 愀琀 攀愀爀琀栀氀椀渀欀⸀渀攀琀㸀ഊSubject: [Sca-cooks] Artichoke recipe (was re: Cardoons vs.
਀ऀ愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀猀⤀ഊTo: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
਀ഊ-Gisnotta mentioned:
਀㸀 圀栀愀琀✀猀 爀攀愀氀氀礀 挀漀渀昀甀猀椀渀最 昀漀爀 洀攀 椀猀 琀栀愀琀 洀礀 匀椀挀椀氀椀愀渀 最爀愀渀搀洀漀琀栀攀爀ഊ> interchangeably used "artichoke" and "cardoon" to refer to the
਀㸀 最氀漀戀攀ⴀ猀琀礀氀攀 瘀攀最攀琀愀戀氀攀 眀攀 愀爀攀 昀愀洀椀氀椀愀爀 眀椀琀栀⸀ 䈀甀琀 眀椀琀栀 挀愀爀搀漀漀渀猀Ⰰ 礀漀甀 攀愀琀ഊ> the stems, not the bracts.
਀ഊHuh? What are part of the plant are the "bracts"?
਀ഊStefan
਀ⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀഊMy lord, in an artichoke the bracts are the fleshy leaf-like parts of 
਀琀栀攀 瀀氀愀渀琀 琀栀愀琀 眀攀 攀愀琀⸀ 䤀渀 愀渀礀 昀氀漀眀攀爀椀渀最 瀀氀愀渀琀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 戀爀愀挀琀猀 愀爀攀 琀栀攀 ഊleaves at the bases of the flowers. In artichoke or cardoon, the bracts 
਀愀爀攀 渀甀洀攀爀漀甀猀⸀ഊ
਀匀漀洀攀漀渀攀 栀愀搀 愀猀欀攀搀 眀栀礀 琀栀攀 挀愀爀搀漀漀渀猀 琀栀攀礀 栀愀瘀攀 攀愀琀攀渀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀椀爀 最愀爀搀攀渀 ഊare stringy and bitter. First, you have to eat them young; don't try 
਀愀渀搀 攀愀琀 琀栀攀洀 眀栀攀渀 琀栀攀 瀀氀愀渀琀 最攀琀猀 爀攀愀氀氀礀 戀椀最⸀ 匀攀挀漀渀搀Ⰰ 礀漀甀 栀愀瘀攀 琀漀 爀攀洀漀瘀攀 ഊthe "strings" from the stems as part of the preparation; strip them 
਀漀甀琀⸀ഊ
਀䄀渀搀 栀攀爀攀✀猀 愀 昀愀瘀漀爀椀琀攀 䌀栀爀椀猀琀洀愀猀 䔀瘀攀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀 昀爀漀洀 洀礀 昀愀洀椀氀礀⸀ ഊIt's simple and tasty and I gorge myself near to exploding on them. I 
਀搀漀渀✀琀 琀栀椀渀欀 椀琀✀猀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀Ⰰ 瀀攀爀 猀攀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 椀琀✀猀 愀 最漀漀搀 昀椀渀最攀爀 昀漀漀搀⸀ഊ
਀䄀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀 栀攀愀爀琀 昀爀椀琀琀愀琀攀ഊ
਀䤀渀最爀攀搀椀攀渀琀猀㨀ഊ
਀吀眀漀 挀愀渀猀 漀昀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀 栀攀愀爀琀猀Ⰰ 爀椀渀猀攀搀 琀漀 洀愀欀攀 琀栀攀洀 氀攀猀猀 猀愀氀琀礀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 ഊwell-drained.
਀吀眀漀 漀爀 琀栀爀攀攀 戀攀愀琀攀渀 攀最最猀ഊBreadcrumbs (I like Cento or Progresso, but you could make your own if 
਀椀渀挀氀椀渀攀搀 ⴀⴀ 樀甀猀琀 洀愀欀攀 猀甀爀攀 琀栀攀爀攀✀猀 愀 最漀漀搀 戀椀琀 漀昀 最爀愀琀攀搀 倀愀爀洀攀猀愀渀 漀爀 ഊRomano cheese in there)
਀伀氀椀瘀攀 漀椀氀 昀漀爀 昀爀礀椀渀最ഊ
਀䤀渀 愀 氀愀爀最攀 猀欀椀氀氀攀琀Ⰰ 栀攀愀琀 琀栀攀 漀氀椀瘀攀 漀椀氀 琀漀 昀爀礀椀渀最 琀攀洀瀀攀爀愀琀甀爀攀⸀ 吀愀欀攀 愀 ഊdrained artichoke heart, dip it in the beaten egg, then roll it in the 
਀戀爀攀愀搀挀爀甀洀戀猀 甀渀琀椀氀 眀攀氀氀ⴀ挀漀愀琀攀搀Ⰰ 琀栀攀渀 瀀氀愀挀攀 椀渀 琀栀攀 猀欀椀氀氀攀琀⸀ 倀甀琀 椀渀 琀栀攀 ഊhot oil; repeat until you have a skillet full, and fry until browned. 
਀䐀爀愀椀渀 琀栀攀 戀爀攀愀搀攀搀Ⰰ 昀爀椀攀搀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀 栀攀愀爀琀猀 漀渀 瀀愀瀀攀爀 琀漀眀攀氀猀⸀ 匀攀爀瘀攀 愀琀 ഊroom temperature as an appetizer with lemon wedges.
਀ഊGianotta
਀ഊ
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 圀攀搀Ⰰ ㌀ 一漀瘀 ㈀　　㐀 　㤀㨀㄀㠀㨀　㘀 ⴀ　㠀　　 ⠀倀匀吀⤀ഊFrom: Chris Stanifer <jugglethis at yahoo.com>
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 爀漀愀猀琀 琀甀爀欀攀礀ഊTo: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
਀ഊ--- Terry Decker <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net> wrote:
਀㸀 䤀 眀漀甀氀搀 瀀漀椀渀琀 漀甀琀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀爀攀 愀爀攀 愀 渀甀洀戀攀爀 漀昀 挀愀爀搀漀漀渀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀猀 椀渀 䄀瀀椀挀椀甀猀ഊ> which would certainly apply to the artichoke.  Apicius may be 1st Century,
਀㸀 戀甀琀 攀砀琀愀渀琀 挀漀瀀椀攀猀 漀昀 椀琀 挀攀爀琀愀椀渀氀礀 昀愀氀氀 眀椀琀栀椀渀 匀䌀䄀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀⸀  䄀猀 䰀愀琀椀渀 栀愀搀 渀漀ഊ> word for the artichoke, carduus would have been used for both plants.
਀ഊHere is a reference from the Harvard Common Press, which seems to 
਀猀甀瀀瀀漀爀琀 琀栀攀 渀漀琀椀漀渀 琀栀愀琀 䄀瀀椀挀椀甀猀✀ഊ"Artichoke" was very likely a cardoon:
਀ഊ"Professor Andrew Watson, following the botanist Georges Gibault, 
਀挀氀愀椀洀攀搀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀 眀愀猀ഊdeveloped from the cardoon; that only the cardoon was known in the 
਀䜀爀攀挀漀ⴀ刀漀愀渀 眀漀爀氀搀Ⰰ 搀攀猀椀最渀愀琀攀搀ഊby names such as kaktos, cynara, carduus, scolymus, and spondylium; and 
਀琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀爀攀 椀猀 渀漀 爀攀昀攀爀攀渀挀攀ഊin classical literature to a plant of this family with edible flesh on 
਀琀栀攀 戀爀愀挀琀猀⸀ 䄀氀琀栀漀甀最栀 䨀⸀ഊAndré suggests that several Roman authors may have referred to the 
਀愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀 ⠀漀爀 琀栀攀 挀愀爀搀漀漀渀⤀ഊusing the word carduus, two of the most important authors, Palladius 
਀愀渀搀 倀氀椀渀礀Ⰰ 猀愀礀 渀漀琀栀椀渀最 琀栀愀琀ഊwould make one think that the plant is not the cardoon. A recipe found 
਀椀渀 琀栀攀 刀漀洀愀渀 愀甀琀栀漀爀ഊApicius'scookbook sounds as if it was meant for the soft stems of the 
਀挀愀爀搀漀漀渀 爀愀琀栀攀爀 琀栀愀渀 昀漀爀 琀栀攀ഊartichoke. Theophrastos says explicitly that the stem of the kaktos is 
਀攀愀琀攀渀Ⰰ 猀漀 愀氀洀漀猀琀 挀攀爀琀愀椀渀氀礀ഊhe was referring to the cardoon. He goes on to mention another 
਀∀琀椀猀琀氀攀Ⰰ∀ 琀栀攀 瀀琀攀爀渀椀砀Ⰰ 眀栀椀挀栀 栀愀猀ഊan edible receptacle but inedible bracts. "
਀ഊ
਀䘀甀爀琀栀攀爀洀漀爀攀㨀ഊ
਀∀䤀琀 椀猀 椀洀瀀漀猀猀椀戀氀攀 琀漀 琀攀氀氀 眀栀攀琀栀攀爀 琀栀攀 欀栀愀爀猀栀甀昀 甀猀攀搀 椀渀 琀栀攀 ഊthirteenth-century Hispano-Muslim
਀挀漀漀欀攀爀礀 戀漀漀欀 琀栀攀 䬀椀琀愀戀 愀氀ⴀ琀愀戀愀欀栀 昀椀 愀氀ⴀ䴀愀最爀椀戀 眀愀✀氀ⴀ䄀渀搀愀氀甀猀 眀愀猀 愀渀 ഊartchoke or a cardoon. In any
਀挀愀猀攀Ⰰ 漀琀栀攀爀 攀愀爀氀礀 挀漀漀欀攀爀礀 洀愀渀甀猀挀爀椀瀀琀猀 猀甀挀栀 愀猀 琀栀攀 昀漀甀爀琀攀攀渀琀栀ⴀ挀攀渀琀甀爀礀 䰀攀 ഊménagier de Paris, the
਀愀渀漀渀礀洀漀甀猀 䤀琀愀氀椀愀渀 䰀椀戀爀漀 搀椀 挀甀挀椀渀愀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 琀栀攀 嘀椀愀渀搀椀攀爀 漀昀 吀愀椀氀氀攀瘀攀渀琀 ഊconspicuously do not mention
਀愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀猀⸀∀ഊ
਀㸀 䘀爀漀洀 琀栀椀猀 椀渀昀漀爀洀愀琀椀漀渀Ⰰ 䤀 愀猀猀甀洀攀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 䄀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀Ⰰ 琀栀漀甀最栀 挀甀氀琀椀瘀愀琀攀搀 ഊ> in Italy during SCA period, was not a 'mainstream' item.
਀ഊWilliam de Gradfort
਀ഊ
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 吀栀甀Ⰰ 　㐀 一漀瘀 ㈀　　㐀 ㄀　㨀㔀㜀㨀㌀㘀 ⴀ　㔀　　ഊFrom: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 刀攀㨀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀 焀甀漀琀攀 眀愀猀 爀漀愀猀琀 琀甀爀欀攀礀ഊTo: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
਀ഊThe source of this section for all those wondering about the
਀䠀愀爀瘀愀爀搀 䌀漀洀洀漀渀 倀爀攀猀猀 猀漀甀爀挀攀 椀猀ഊClifford Wright's book Mediterranean Vegetables, 2001.
਀ഊJohnnae
਀ഊChris Stanifer wrote:
਀㸀 䠀攀爀攀 椀猀 愀 爀攀昀攀爀攀渀攀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀 䠀愀爀瘀愀爀搀 䌀漀洀洀漀渀 倀爀攀猀猀Ⰰ 眀栀椀挀栀 猀攀攀洀猀 琀漀 ഊ> support the notion that Apicius' "Artichoke" was very likely a cardoon:
਀㸀ഊ> "Professor Andrew Watson, following the botanist Georges Gibault, 
਀㸀 挀氀愀椀洀攀搀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀 眀愀猀ഊ> developed from the cardon; that only the cardoon was known in the 
਀㸀 䜀爀攀挀漀ⴀ刀漀洀愀渀 眀漀爀氀搀Ⰰ 搀攀猀椀最渀愀琀攀搀ഊ> by names such as kaktos, cynara, carduus, scolymus, and spondylium; 
਀㸀 愀渀搀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀爀攀 椀猀 渀漀 爀攀昀攀爀攀渀挀攀ഊ> in classical literature to a plant of this family with edible flesh on 
਀㸀 栀攀 戀爀愀挀琀猀⸀ 猀渀椀瀀瀀攀搀ഊ>
਀㸀㸀 䘀爀漀洀 琀栀椀猀 椀渀昀漀爀洀愀琀椀漀渀Ⰰ 䤀 愀猀猀甀洀攀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 䄀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀Ⰰ 琀栀漀甀最栀 挀甀氀琀椀瘀愀琀攀搀 ഊ>> in Italy during SCA period, was not a 'mainstream' item.
਀㸀ഊ> William de Gradfort
਀ഊ
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 吀栀甀Ⰰ 　㐀 一漀瘀 ㈀　　㐀 ㄀㄀㨀　㔀㨀㈀　 ⴀ　㔀　　ഊFrom: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 刀攀㨀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀 焀甀漀琀攀 眀愀猀 爀漀愀猀琀 琀甀爀欀攀礀ഊTo: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
਀ഊIf one continues reading in the same entry, one also finds that Wright mentions
਀琀栀攀 昀漀氀氀漀眀椀渀最 愀猀 爀攀最愀爀搀猀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀猀⸀ഊ
਀吀栀攀 渀椀渀攀琀攀攀渀琀栀ⴀ挀攀渀琀甀爀礀 䤀琀愀氀椀愀渀 戀漀琀愀渀椀猀琀 吀愀爀最椀漀渀椀ⴀ吀漀稀稀攀琀琀椀 搀攀猀挀爀椀戀攀猀 琀栀攀 椀渀琀爀漀搀甀挀琀椀漀渀 漀昀 琀栀攀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀 琀漀 吀甀猀挀愀渀礀 愀爀漀甀渀搀 ㄀㐀㘀㘀Ⰰ 瀀漀椀渀琀椀渀最 漀甀琀 琀栀愀琀 䴀愀琀琀椀漀氀椀 猀愀椀搀 椀琀 眀愀猀 戀爀漀甀最栀琀 琀漀 一愀瀀氀攀猀 昀爀漀洀 匀椀挀椀氀礀⸀ 䄀猀 昀愀爀 愀猀 愀渀 攀愀爀氀礀 䔀甀爀漀瀀攀愀渀 搀椀猀琀椀渀挀琀椀漀渀 戀攀琀眀攀攀渀 琀栀攀 挀愀爀搀漀漀渀 愀渀搀 琀栀攀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 䘀爀攀渀挀栀 栀椀猀琀漀爀椀愀渀 䠀攀渀爀椀 䈀爀攀猀挀 挀椀琀攀猀 攀瘀椀搀攀渀挀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀 戀攀椀渀最 最爀漀眀渀椀渀 琀栀攀 最愀爀搀攀渀猀 漀昀 一漀爀洀愀渀 匀椀挀椀氀礀 ഊ(1091-1194); the documents distinguish the plant from the cardoon.
਀䔀爀洀漀氀愀漀 䈀愀爀戀愀爀漀Ⰰ 椀渀 栀椀猀 䤀渀 䐀椀漀猀挀漀爀椀搀攀洀 挀漀爀漀氀氀愀爀椀漀爀甀洀 氀椀戀爀椀 焀甀椀渀焀甀攀Ⰰ 昀椀渀愀氀氀礀 瀀甀戀氀椀猀栀攀搀 椀渀 ㄀㔀㌀　Ⰰ 眀爀椀琀攀猀 琀栀愀琀 愀琀 琀栀攀 攀渀搀 漀昀 琀栀攀 昀椀昀琀攀攀渀琀栀 挀攀渀琀甀爀礀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀猀 眀攀爀攀 渀漀琀 愀氀眀愀礀猀 愀瘀愀椀氀愀戀氀攀 椀渀 䤀琀愀氀礀㬀 琀栀攀 椀洀瀀氀椀挀愀琀椀漀渀 洀愀礀 戀攀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀礀 眀攀爀攀 渀漀琀 瀀愀爀琀椀挀甀氀愀爀氀礀 攀猀琀攀攀洀攀搀 愀琀 琀栀愀琀 琀椀洀攀⸀ 吀栀攀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀Ⰰ 栀攀 猀愀椀搀Ⰰ 猀瀀攀愀欀椀渀最 漀昀 嘀攀渀椀挀攀Ⰰ 椀猀 昀漀甀渀搀 漀渀氀礀 椀渀 琀栀攀 昀漀爀攀椀最渀 最愀爀搀攀渀猀 椀渀 琀栀攀 䴀漀漀爀椀猀栀 焀甀愀爀琀攀爀⸀ഊThe artichoke was brought to the New Wrld by the French and Spanish colonizers in the sixteenth century.  Today the Mediterranean and California are the major producers of artichokes.
਀ഊWright does not include or list Scappi as a source by the way.
਀ഊ
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 吀栀甀Ⰰ 㐀 一漀瘀 ㈀　　㐀 　㠀㨀㌀㔀㨀　㜀 ⴀ　㠀　　 ⠀倀匀吀⤀ഊFrom: Chris Stanifer <jugglethis at yahoo.com>
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 刀攀㨀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀 焀甀漀琀攀 眀愀猀 爀漀愀猀琀 琀甀爀欀攀礀ഊTo: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
਀ഊ--- Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu> wrote:
਀㸀 䔀爀洀漀氀愀漀 䈀愀爀戀愀爀漀Ⰰ 椀渀 栀椀猀 䤀渀 䐀椀漀猀挀漀爀椀搀攀洀 挀漀爀漀氀氀愀爀椀漀爀甀洀 氀椀戀爀椀 焀甀椀渀焀甀攀Ⰰഊ> finally published in 1530, writes that at the end of the fifteenth
਀㸀 挀攀渀琀甀爀礀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀猀ഊ> ere not always available in Italy; the implication may be that they were not
਀㸀 瀀愀爀琀椀挀甀氀愀爀氀礀 攀猀琀攀攀洀攀搀 愀琀 琀栀愀琀 琀椀洀攀⸀ 吀栀攀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀Ⰰ 栀攀 猀愀椀搀Ⰰ 猀瀀攀愀欀椀渀最 漀昀ഊ> Venice, is found only in the foreign gardens in the Moorish quarter.
਀ഊThere it is.  That was the articular quote which gave me the  impression that the artichoke was not a 'mainstream' or commonly used item in SCA period.  The impression  that it was grown only in selective gardens further impresses that it may have been more of a  cultural favorite, which didn't take well with the common man of Western Europe.  I may, in  fact, be mistaken about this, but that is the impression I am getting.  As always, if there is  further proof that the artichoke (and not the cardoon being mislabeled as an artichok) was more  prevailant in period, I'd love to see it.  I do likes me some artichokes.... ;)
਀ഊWilliam de Grandfort
਀一漀爀洀愀渀 䤀渀瘀愀搀攀爀ഊ
਀ഊDate: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 14:29:25 -0600
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀吀攀爀爀礀 䐀攀挀欀攀爀∀ 㰀琀⸀搀⸀搀攀挀欀攀爀 愀琀 眀漀爀氀搀渀攀琀⸀愀琀琀⸀渀攀琀㸀ഊSubject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: artichoke quote
਀吀漀㨀 ∀䌀漀漀欀猀 眀椀琀栀椀渀 琀栀攀 匀䌀䄀∀ 㰀猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最㸀ഊ
਀㸀 ⴀⴀⴀ 吀攀爀爀礀 䐀攀挀欀攀爀 㰀琀⸀搀⸀搀攀挀欀攀爀 愀琀 眀漀爀氀搀渀攀琀⸀愀琀琀⸀渀攀琀㸀 眀爀漀琀攀㨀ഊ>> If, as The Cambridge World History of food states, that the Ancient Romans
਀㸀㸀 愀琀攀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀猀 愀渀搀 戀爀漀甀最栀琀 琀栀攀洀 琀漀 琀栀攀 䈀爀椀琀椀猀栀 䤀猀氀攀猀Ⰰ 礀漀甀爀 琀栀攀猀椀猀 搀漀攀猀渀✀琀ഊ>> hold water.
਀㸀ഊ> That reference may be a mistake.  The jury is still out on this one.  The
਀㸀 ✀愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀✀ 漀昀 愀渀挀椀攀渀琀 刀漀洀攀 洀愀礀 眀攀氀氀 栀愀瘀攀 戀攀攀渀 愀 挀愀爀搀漀漀渀⸀⸀⸀ഊ>
਀㸀 圀椀氀氀椀愀洀 搀攀 䜀爀愀渀搀昀漀爀琀ഊ
਀夀攀猀 琀栀攀 樀甀爀礀 椀猀 猀琀椀氀氀 漀甀琀Ⰰ 眀栀椀挀栀 椀猀 眀栀礀 漀渀攀 猀栀漀甀氀搀 渀漀琀 愀挀挀攀瀀琀 琀栀攀 瀀愀猀猀愀最攀 漀昀ഊClifford Wright's you quoted as authority.  It avoids a number of linguistic
਀椀猀猀甀攀猀 愀渀搀 漀瀀瀀漀猀椀渀最 漀瀀椀渀椀漀渀猀Ⰰ 猀漀 圀爀椀最栀琀 洀愀礀 戀攀 椀渀 攀爀爀漀爀 愀猀 洀甀挀栀 愀猀 礀漀甀ഊbelieve the editors of The Cambridge World History of Food may be in error.
਀ഊFor example, Geffory Grigson in A Dictionary of English Plant Names suggests
਀琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 挀愀爀搀漀漀渀 眀愀猀 挀甀氀琀椀瘀愀琀攀搀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀⸀  吀栀攀 伀砀昀漀爀搀 䈀漀漀欀 漀昀 䘀漀漀搀ഊPlants states that the globe artichoke was known to the Ancient Greeks and
਀刀漀洀愀渀猀⸀  吀栀攀猀攀 猀漀甀爀挀攀猀 愀爀攀 愀猀 愀甀琀栀漀爀椀琀愀琀椀瘀攀 愀渀搀 猀挀栀漀氀愀爀氀礀 愀猀 圀爀椀最栀琀 愀渀搀 琀栀攀礀ഊdisagree with his position.  Are they also mistaken?  I haven't checked
਀䘀甀挀栀猀 礀攀琀 漀爀 愀 渀甀洀戀攀爀 漀昀 漀琀栀攀爀 猀漀甀爀挀攀猀 眀栀椀挀栀 䤀 眀椀氀氀 愀猀 琀椀洀攀 瀀攀爀洀椀琀猀⸀ഊ
਀䄀琀 氀攀愀猀琀 漀渀攀 漀瀀椀渀椀漀渀 椀猀 琀栀攀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀 椀猀 漀昀 匀椀挀椀氀椀愀渀 漀爀椀最椀渀 漀爀 琀栀愀琀 椀琀 椀猀 漀昀ഊCarthaginian origin and transplanted to Sicily.  Not much evidence pro or
਀挀漀渀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 椀琀 昀椀琀猀 琀栀攀 琀椀洀攀氀椀渀攀⸀  䤀 氀椀欀攀 琀栀攀 愀爀最甀洀攀渀琀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 䤀 栀愀瘀攀渀✀琀 瀀甀琀 椀琀 琀漀ഊthe test.
਀ഊWhat is obvious to me is the subject of artichokes deserves some serious
਀爀攀猀攀愀爀挀栀 椀渀琀漀 琀栀攀 猀漀甀爀挀攀猀 漀昀 挀甀爀爀攀渀琀 漀瀀椀渀椀漀渀 爀愀琀栀攀爀 琀栀愀渀 愀甀琀栀漀爀椀琀愀琀椀瘀攀ഊpronuncements based on absent, incomplete or erroneous sources with
਀愀爀最甀洀攀渀琀愀琀椀瘀攀 挀漀渀琀攀砀琀猀 眀攀 搀漀渀✀琀 甀渀搀攀爀猀琀愀渀搀⸀ഊ
਀䈀攀愀爀ഊ
਀ഊDate: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 14:04:46 -0400
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀倀栀椀氀 吀爀漀礀 ⼀ 䜀⸀ 吀愀挀椀琀甀猀 䄀搀愀洀愀渀琀椀甀猀∀ഊ	<adamantius.magister at verizon.net>
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 䴀漀爀攀 䄀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀⼀䌀愀爀搀漀漀渀ഊTo: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
਀ഊAlso sprach lilinah at earthlink.net:
਀㸀 䄀挀挀漀爀搀椀渀最 琀漀ഊ> http://gears.tucson.ars.ag.gov/book/chap6/artichoke.html
਀㸀ഊ> "Cardoon (Cynara cardunculus L.) is similar to artichoke except that
਀㸀 椀琀 椀猀 猀瀀椀渀礀 愀渀搀 洀漀爀攀 爀漀戀甀猀琀⸀ 䤀琀 椀猀 挀甀氀琀椀瘀愀琀攀搀Ⰰ 漀渀 愀 洀甀挀栀 猀洀愀氀氀攀爀ഊ> scale than artichoke, for its edible root and thickened leafstalk.
਀㸀 吀栀攀 椀渀昀氀漀爀攀猀挀攀渀挀攀 愀渀搀 瀀漀氀氀椀渀愀琀椀漀渀 爀攀氀愀琀椀漀渀猀栀椀瀀猀 愀爀攀 猀椀洀椀氀愀爀 琀漀ഊ> artichoke (Bailey 1949*)."
਀㸀ഊ> At a cooking workshop at Duke Cariadoc's some among us cooked
਀㸀 挀愀爀搀漀漀渀 氀攀愀瘀攀猀 昀爀漀洀 䠀椀猀 䜀爀愀挀攀✀猀 最愀爀搀攀渀⸀ഊ>
਀㸀 䈀甀琀 椀昀 琀栀愀琀 焀甀漀琀攀 椀猀 琀爀甀攀Ⰰ 漀渀攀 攀愀琀猀 琀栀攀 爀漀漀琀猀 ⠀愀渀搀 瀀漀猀猀椀戀氀礀 琀栀攀ഊ> stalk), not the leaves...
਀㸀ഊ> Anyone with more experience care to comment?
਀㸀 ⴀⴀഊ> Urtatim, formerly Anahita
਀ഊI'd say that the statement that one eats the leafstalks but not the
਀氀攀愀瘀攀猀 椀猀 愀欀椀渀 琀漀 琀栀攀 猀琀愀琀攀洀攀渀琀 琀栀愀琀 漀渀攀 攀愀琀猀 琀栀攀 氀攀愀昀 戀愀猀攀 愀渀搀 渀漀琀ഊthe leaf tips of a mature globe artichoke...
਀ഊThink of taking a globe artichoke and streee-eee-tching it until it's
਀愀猀 氀漀渀最 愀猀 愀 栀攀愀搀 漀昀 挀攀氀攀爀礀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 漀琀栀攀爀眀椀猀攀 昀愀椀爀氀礀 猀椀洀椀氀愀爀 椀渀ഊstructure. That's your cardoon. You still eat the base of the leaves
਀⠀琀栀攀 氀攀愀昀 琀椀瀀猀 愀爀攀 昀椀戀爀漀甀猀 愀渀搀 搀漀渀✀琀 栀愀瘀攀 洀甀挀栀 椀渀 琀栀攀 眀愀礀 漀昀 瀀甀氀瀀⤀ഊand the "heart", which in the case of real cardoons, is part of the
਀爀漀漀琀⸀ഊ
਀䤀 搀漀渀✀琀 栀愀瘀攀 愀 氀漀琀 漀昀 挀愀爀搀漀漀渀 攀砀瀀攀爀椀攀渀挀攀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 䤀✀瘀攀 猀攀攀渀 琀栀攀洀 椀渀ഊmarkets, chased people obscenely with them. You know. The usual.
਀ഊAdamantius
਀ഊ
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 䘀爀椀Ⰰ 㠀 䄀瀀爀 ㈀　　㔀 ㈀㌀㨀㔀㄀㨀㔀㔀 ⴀ　㜀　　ഊFrom: David Friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 䴀漀爀攀 䄀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀⼀䌀愀爀搀漀漀渀ഊTo: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
਀ഊ> I'd say that the statement that one eats the leafstalks but not the
਀㸀 氀攀愀瘀攀猀 椀猀 愀欀椀渀 琀漀 琀栀攀 猀琀愀琀攀洀攀渀琀 琀栀愀琀 漀渀攀 攀愀琀猀 琀栀攀 氀攀愀昀 戀愀猀攀 愀渀搀 渀漀琀ഊ> the leaf tips of a mature globe artichoke...
਀㸀ഊ> Think of taking a globe artichoke and streee-eee-tching it until
਀㸀 椀琀✀猀 愀猀 氀漀渀最 愀猀 愀 栀攀愀搀 漀昀 挀攀氀攀爀礀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 漀琀栀攀爀眀椀猀攀 昀愀椀爀氀礀 猀椀洀椀氀愀爀 椀渀ഊ> structure. That's your cardoon. You still eat the base of the leaves
਀㸀 ⠀琀栀攀 氀攀愀昀 琀椀瀀猀 愀爀攀 昀椀戀爀漀甀猀 愀渀搀 搀漀渀✀琀 栀愀瘀攀 洀甀挀栀 椀渀 琀栀攀 眀愀礀 漀昀 瀀甀氀瀀⤀ഊ> and the "heart", which in the case of real cardoons, is part of the
਀㸀 爀漀漀琀⸀ഊ
਀䤀 搀漀 渀漀琀 戀攀氀椀攀瘀攀 琀栀愀琀 椀猀 挀漀爀爀攀挀琀⸀ഊ
਀䄀 最氀漀戀攀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀 椀猀 愀 昀氀漀眀攀爀 戀甀搀Ⰰ 渀漀琀 愀 戀甀渀挀栀 漀昀 氀攀愀瘀攀猀⸀ 䄀 挀愀爀搀漀漀渀ഊhas chokes just like a globe artichoke--but they are tiny. What you
਀攀愀琀 愀爀攀 琀栀攀 氀攀愀瘀攀猀⸀ 吀栀攀 爀椀戀 瀀漀爀琀椀漀渀 氀漀漀欀猀 爀愀琀栀攀爀 氀椀欀攀 挀攀氀攀爀礀⸀ഊArtichokes have the same sort of leaves--a cardoon plant looks like
਀愀渀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀 漀渀 猀琀攀爀漀椀搀猀⸀ 䴀礀 最甀攀猀猀 椀猀 琀栀愀琀 礀漀甀 挀漀甀氀搀 攀愀琀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀ഊleaves--the rib near the base--too, although I haven't tried.
਀ⴀⴀ ഊDavid/Cariadoc
਀眀眀眀⸀搀愀瘀椀搀搀昀爀椀攀搀洀愀渀⸀挀漀洀ഊ
਀ഊDate: Mon, 16 May 2005 17:43:44 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 䌀栀爀椀猀琀椀愀渀攀 㰀挀栀爀椀猀琀椀愀渀攀琀爀甀攀 愀琀 攀愀爀琀栀氀椀渀欀⸀渀攀琀㸀ഊSubject: [Sca-cooks] Ye old artichoke question (was new world foods;
਀ऀ漀氀搀 眀漀爀氀搀 渀愀洀攀猀⤀ഊTo: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
਀ഊ<snip>Artichokes are an open question.  Clifford Wright makes a case for
਀愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀猀 渀漀琀 戀攀椀渀最 欀渀漀眀渀 甀渀琀椀氀 瘀攀爀礀 氀愀琀攀 愀渀搀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 瀀氀愀渀琀 戀攀椀渀最ഊreferenced is the cardoon.
਀㰀猀渀椀瀀㸀ഊBear
਀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀㴀 ഊI just re-read Mr. Wright's 1996 essay; his argument was just not that  
਀琀栀攀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀 眀愀猀 欀渀漀眀渀 甀渀琀椀氀 瘀攀爀礀 氀愀琀攀 椀渀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 愀渀挀椀攀渀琀  ഊGreeks and Romans were probably referencing cardoons. He does seem to  
਀愀最爀攀攀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 䄀爀愀戀猀 椀渀琀爀漀搀甀挀攀搀 琀栀攀 挀甀氀琀椀瘀愀琀攀搀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀 椀渀 䤀琀愀氀礀 愀渀搀  ഊin Spain. One of the Arabic words for the globe artichoke, kharshuf, is  
਀爀攀洀椀渀椀猀挀攀渀琀 漀昀 琀栀攀 䤀琀愀氀椀愀渀 挀愀爀挀椀漀昀椀⸀ 䠀椀猀 攀猀猀愀礀 搀椀搀 洀愀欀攀 洀攀渀琀椀漀渀 漀昀  ഊartichokes being grown in the gardens of Norman Sicily.
਀ഊIn reading more of the history of Sicily and southern Italy, I am not  
਀猀甀爀瀀爀椀猀攀搀 愀琀 愀氀氀 琀栀愀琀 椀琀 琀漀漀欀 愀眀栀椀氀攀 昀漀爀 琀栀攀 愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀 琀漀 洀愀欀攀 椀琀猀 眀愀礀  ഊnorth to Tuscany. There still is cultural bias in the north of Italy  
਀愀最愀椀渀猀琀 琀栀攀 䄀爀愀戀猀 愀渀搀 愀渀礀漀渀攀 最攀渀攀爀愀氀氀礀 猀攀攀渀 愀猀 栀愀瘀椀渀最 䄀爀愀戀 戀氀漀漀搀  ഊ(Sicilians); I can't imagine taking a plant so associated with the  
਀䄀爀愀戀猀 愀渀搀 琀爀礀椀渀最 琀漀 椀渀琀爀漀搀甀挀攀 椀琀 愀渀礀 攀愀爀氀椀攀爀 琀栀愀渀 琀栀攀 ㄀㔀　　猀 眀漀甀氀搀 栀愀瘀攀  ഊbeen overwhelmingly successful.
਀ഊGianotta
਀ഊ<the end>
਀䔀搀椀琀攀搀 戀礀 䴀愀爀欀 匀⸀ 䠀愀爀爀椀猀ऀ愀爀琀椀挀栀漀欀攀猀ⴀ洀猀最ऀ倀愀最攀 ㄀㘀 漀昀 ㄀㤀ഊ
ਊ