p-ironware-msg - 10/8/18

Period iron pots and cookware.

NOTE: See also the files: iron-pot-srcs-msg, iron-pot-care-msg, cooking-pots-art, cppr-utn-care-msg, spits-msg, p-tableware-msg, ovens-msg.      

************************************************************************
NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.

Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

Thank you,
    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
************************************************************************

Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 17:07:56 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>
To: <lilinah at earthlink.net>,	"Cooks within the SCA"
	<sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] ISO resources for history of cast iron
	cookware

Cast iron cooking vessels were found on the Pulau Buaya wreck (12-13th 
Century), so there are examples of cast iron cookware within period.  (Ridho 
and Edwards McKinnon, 1997, "The Pulau Buaya Wreck", Himpunan Keramic 
Indonesia, p.84. ).  What we don't seem to have are any known European 
examples of cast iron cookware from within period.  Please note the "known," 
dating can be tricky and there is the possibility that worn out cookware was 
resmelted.  Some of the woodcuts show what appear to be cast iron pieces, 
but actual materials and construction can not be accurately discerned.

Archeological evidence suggests that cast iron was first produced in Europe 
between 1150 and 1350 at two Swedish furnaces, Lapphyttan and Vinarhyttan. 
(PDF on reconstructed Lapphyttan furnace: 
http://www.jarnetpalapphyttan.se/English%20version%202011.pdf  , Tholander, 
Erik & Blomgren, Stig, "Some aspects of the origin of the blast furnace," 
The Journal of the Historical Metallurgy Society, Vol. 20:2, 1986, ORB:Iron 
and Steel Production in the Middle Ages: 
http://www.the-orb.net/encyclop/culture/scitech/iron_steel.html ).  These 
furnaces are similar to the Chinese furnaces, so there is an open question 
of technology transfer from China by trade over the Volga/Steppes route to 
the Silk Road.  It is possible, but there is no evidence for or against, 
that cast iron cookware found its way into Europe over this route.

European manufactured cast iron cookware did not exist prior to the 12th 
Century based on current evidence.  Cast iron was used largely to remove 
impurities before being reworked into wrought iron and later for casting 
cannon and cannon balls.  However, if you can cast a bombard, you can cast a 
kettle, so there is no barrier to the possibility of European manufactured 
cast iron cookware within period.

The reason why cast iron cookware was not prevalent is cost.  The technology 
arrived in Europe when the forest were being depleted and the cost of fuel 
was on the rise.  While coal was being used in England and a few other 
places by the end of the 13th Century, it didn't come into major use until 
the 16th Century and the coking process which makes coal a superior fuel for 
smelting didn't occur until the 17th Century.  The increase in cast iron 
production for general use appears to be directly proportional to the use of 
coal as a fuel and the reduction in smelting costs, which is probably why 
cast iron's major use before the 17th Century was martial.

Bear


Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 19:14:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Honour Horne-Jaruk <jarukcomp at yahoo.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] ISO resources for history of cast iron
	cookware

--- On Mon, 6/13/11, Terry Decker <t.d.decker at att.net> wrote:
(much snipped)
<<< Cast iron cooking vessels were found
on the Pulau Buaya wreck (12-13th Century), so there are
examples of cast iron cookware within period.  (Ridho
and Edwards McKinnon, 1997, "The Pulau Buaya Wreck",
Himpunan Keramic Indonesia, p.84. ).  What we don't
seem to have are any known European examples of cast iron
cookware from within period.  Please note the "known,"
dating can be tricky and there is the possibility that worn
out cookware was resmelted.  Some of the woodcuts show
what appear to be cast iron pieces, but actual materials and
construction can not be accurately discerned. >>>

The above leads me to the idea that the Portugese, who were trading in these waters in period, may well have brought such pots back. (They have obvious advantages for some uses.) Thus, if any cast-iron pots were in use in Europe in the 1500s, they'd probably include ones that were, and were shaped like, Indonesian ones.
...Anybody know what Indonesian ones were shaped like?

Yours in service to both the Societies of which I am a member-
(Friend) Honour Horne-Jaruk, R.S.F.
Alizaundre de Brebeuf, C.O.L. S.C.A.- AKA Una the wisewoman, or That Pict


Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 23:35:45 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] ISO resources for history of cast iron
	cookware

According to Michael Flecker, an expert on these wrecks, the most common 
cast iron cookware found in wrecks are woks and cauldrons.  Rather than 
being of Indonesian origin, the cast and wrought iron found in these wrecks 
is of Chinese origin.  The Chinese had the raw materials and technology to 
produce high quality iron that the other nations in Asia did not.

The importation of cast iron via Portugal is an interesting idea, but like 
most ideas about cast iron cookware in Europe, there is no evidence for or 
against.  In any event, such a trade would not have occurred before 1503 and 
the return of the first spice fleet from India.  The trade is more likely 
after 1513 when the first Portuguese caravelle made port in Canton.  This 
leaves roughly a 400 year gap between the introduction of cast iron 
manufacturing in Europe and the beginnings of the Portuguese oriental trade. 
I suspect that a trade in cast iron utensils did not occur because there 
were far more compact and valuable trade goods to hand.

One thought that I haven't chased down is wafer irons.  The most logical 
cookware that is easily made of cast iron and likely to survive is the wafer 
or waffle iron.  It might be interesting to find and examine some period 
irons.

Bear


Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 23:24:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: Honour Horne-Jaruk <jarukcomp at yahoo.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] ISO resources for history of cast iron
	cookware

--- On Tue, 6/14/11, Terry Decker <t.d.decker at att.net> wrote:
<<< The importation of cast iron via Portugal is an interesting
idea, but like most ideas about cast iron cookware in
Europe, there is no evidence for or against.  In any
event, such a trade would not have occurred before 1503 and
the return of the first spice fleet from India.  The
trade is more likely after 1513 when the first Portuguese
caravelle made port in Canton.  This leaves roughly a
400 year gap between the introduction of cast iron
manufacturing in Europe and the beginnings of the Portuguese
oriental trade. I suspect that a trade in cast iron utensils
did not occur because there were far more compact and
valuable trade goods to hand.

Bear >>>

Chinese cauldrons seem like the most likely import, then; and I did specify 1500s, so I had the time right as well. As for compactness and value, two important factors: cauldrons that, unlike brass, bronze and copper, don't make acid foods taste revolting have a high value; two, cauldrons make wonderful containers to ship other things in. So Portugal probably had some cast iron cauldrons, in the homes of the extremely screamingly wealthy (Kings and merchant-princes), that came originally from China, before 1600. Doesn't do the rest of us trying to do cooking at events in period pots any good, but it's interesting.

Yours in service to both the Societies of which I am a member-
(Friend) Honour Horne-Jaruk, R.S.F.
Alizaundre de Brebeuf, C.O.L. S.C.A.- AKA Una the wisewoman, or That Pict


Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 08:32:32 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] ISO resources for history of cast iron
	cookware

<<< Chinese cauldrons seem like the most likely import, then; and I did 
specify 1500s, so I had the time right as well. As for compactness and 
value, two important factors: cauldrons that, unlike brass, bronze and 
copper, don't make acid foods taste revolting have a high value; two, 
cauldrons make wonderful containers to ship other things in. So Portugal 
probably had some cast iron cauldrons, in the homes of the extremely 
screamingly wealthy (Kings and merchant-princes), that came originally 
from China, before 1600. Doesn't do the rest of us trying to do cooking at 
events in period pots any good, but it's interesting.

Yours in service to both the Societies of which I am a member-
(Friend) Honour Horne-Jaruk, R.S.F.
Alizaundre de Brebeuf, C.O.L. S.C.A.- AKA Una the wisewoman, or That Pict >>>

Ceramic cookware was common and that handles the problem of acidic foods.

While cast iron cookware may or may not have been imported from China, 
importing the idea is less expensive, even with the cost of fuel in Europe. 
England and France were expanding iron production in the 16th Century and 
England and the Dutch were major players in the Lisbon spice market (at 
least until 1594).  Examples of cast iron cookware from the 17th Century are 
still around and the cookware became common in the 18th and later Centuries.

There is an interesting parallel with porcelain, which was definitely 
imported from China by the Portuguese.  European manufacture didn't start 
until 1575 and wasn't on par with the Chinese until 1708.  If the Portuguese 
were importing cast iron pots, I would expect to find a few examples still 
with us.  While the lack of pre-17th Century cast iron cookware is not 
definitive, it is suggestive of both lack of import and lack of manufacture.

Bear 


Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 07:26:17 -0700
From: "Anne-Marie Rousseau" <dailleurs at liripipe.com>
To: "'Cooks within the SCA'" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] ISO resources for history of cast iron
	cookware

On the reactivity of brass and bronze cauldrons....

My discussions with the nice boys at Hampton Court, who use cast bronze
cauldrons all the time is that the food does NOT turn out tasting nasty as
long as you don't let it sit. Apparently the magics of thermodynamics means
that as long as the food is heating inside the pot, the energy required for
the chemical reaction is used up. 

If you remember, a fair number of recipes specify that you are to cook the
dish, then transfer to a clean plate. According to the Hampton Court fellas,
this serves to keep that unfortunate taste thing from happening. 

Neat, huh? :)

Certainly if the archeological record is to be considered, the majority of
cookware was cast bronze (cast by bell makers, perhaps?), fabricated tinned
vessels and ceramics. I have used all three in re-enactment settings to good
results :).

--Anne-Marie


Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 09:10:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: wheezul at canby.com
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] ISO resources for history of cast iron
	cookware

I recently went on a journey of pots and pans and spent some time looking
at German 16th century inventories to get an idea of how a house might be
outfited for culinary purposes.  I just want to say up front that my
examination so far has just been scratching at the surface, but I would
like to do more follow up.   I have a love of kitchen gadgets!

I'd agree with Anne-Marie - the inventories confirm that most implements
were brass, bronze and ceramic, with a great deal of pewter ware for
service.  However, iron kettles and pans do pop up with some frequency. 
However, the inventories so far have not revealed if they are forged,
riveted, or of cast iron.

And then there was an interesting reference I think in the book below
which has a line drawing of a cast iron kettle or pot dating from the late
medieval period.  I wish I had kept or could find my notes - I seem to
recall that the pot was in a museum in Scotland.

Irons in the fire : a history of cooking equipment /
http://portlandstate.worldcat.org/oclc/12453278

I also scanned these books for information:

English bronze cooking vessels and their founders, 1350-1830 /
http://portlandstate.worldcat.org/oclc/53459205

Les objets de la vie domestique : ustensiles en fer de la cuisine et du
foyer des origines au XIXe siecle /
http://portlandstate.worldcat.org/oclc/299756011

Has anyone worked on an annotated bibliography of cooking equipment?

Katherine


Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 12:04:19 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] ISO resources for history of cast iron
	cookware

Actually, a museum in Scotland might be one of the best places to look for a 
period cast iron kettle.  IIRC, there was some serious immigration between 
Sweden and Scotland (in both directions) during the religious turmoil of the 
16th Century.

Bear

<<< And then there was an interesting reference I think in the book below
which has a line drawing of a cast iron kettle or pot dating from the late
medieval period.  I wish I had kept or could find my notes - I seem to
recall that the pot was in a museum in Scotland.

Katherine >>>


Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 16:30:18 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] ISO resources for history of cast iron
	cookware

I have several books on kitchen equipment. Inc. Irons in the Fire.
There's Yarwood, a shire album or two, let's see what else...
I have several of Peter Brears' pottery volumes; several on silverware, etc. grates, spit irons, etc.

(has anyone checked Brears' books for cast iron references?)
Stuart Press has two volumes.
Cookery Techniques and Equipment 1580-1660	Stuart Peachey		
Volume 1: Fuel and cooking methods and equipment including ovens, roasting, boiling, grilling etc.			?7
Volume 2: Food preparation methods and equipment including grinding, sorting, drying, cutting, colouring etc.

Prospect Books also has books that might be of interest. However, the books are at home and I am on the road.

Bibliography? YES
I did a readers guide several years back on equipment. It would have to be redone. 

Have you checked Dame Katja's paper?
http://www.katjaorlova.com/MedievalKitchenEquipment.htm

Johnnae


Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 22:36:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: H Westerlund-Davis <yaini0625 at yahoo.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] history of cast iron cookware

A while ago we had this discussion before. I am white smith when I am not in the kitchen cooking or in the studio getting tangled in fiber. 

I have been following and corresponding with a group in Ireland called, Umha 
Aois, for sometime who have been exploring and recreating Bronze Age casting and smelting techniques. It is amazing what they have done and recreated. Check out this video http://youtu.be/Ut3pXPyMze4

A lot of pots, if not ceramic, were bronze or pewter. Two ores that were and are easy to cast and use. Bronze is copper and tin or copper and zinc. Pewter, at least until recently, was tin and lead. It is why pewter from a certain time is dangerous. Iron production was still in its infancy during the Medieval Europe. 

Ironically, it takes a hotter heat to smelt for bronze then iron. But, copper 
and tin are easier to find then good solid iron ore. If you want my sources I 
can post them. 

To answer the question about cast iron cookware. That is game on semantics. Now, I am only speaking of Midieval Europe, primarily Northern Europe, and not Asia.

The smelting techniques and iron deposits in China were more refined then in 
Europe during our time period. As of right now the only archeological hard 
evidence we have of "iron" pots are riveted. There are some fine examples in the British Muesum in London and Birka, Sweden. What "cast iron" items that have been found are actually "pig iron." Pig iron is created after the iron smelting process when the finalized smelted ore is then sand casted into ingots. They apparently, look like piglets suckling a mamma pig. Thus the "pig iron" description. Another group that we follow.. check out Hammered out 
Bits...http://warehamforgeblog.blogspot.com/2008/10/medieval-cast-iron.html
I am looking forward to the day to meet Darrell and show him my bellows. 

The Dutch ovens with the little feet we see in many camps is actually an 18th 
century product brought to the U.S by Dutch pioneers. It was easy to carry and compact and became a popular cooking items on the Chuckwagons. 
http://www.socaldos.org/
By the 18th century cast iron production had become industrialized and much more refined. Dutch Ovens now are a cast item. 

Some books: They are nerdy scholarly kind but they are good. 
Lars Christian Norback, International Union of Prehistoric and Protohistoric 
Sciences

Prehistoric and medieval direct iron smelting in Scandinavia and Europe: aspects of technology and society : proceedings of the Sandbjerg conference, 16th to 20th September 1999

David S. Niel, Angela Wardel, and Jonathan Hunn, Excavation of the Iron Age, 
Rome and Medieval Settlement at Gorhambury, St. Albans.

A cool website from the University of Toronto. 
http://www.the-orb.net/encyclop/culture/scitech/iron_steel.html

Aelina

<the end>
Edited by Mark S. Harris	p-ironware-msg	8 of 8