nefs-msg - 3/20/08
Richly decorated medieval salt cellars.
NOTE: See also the files: salt-msg, salt-comm-art, p-tableware-msg, aquamaniles-msg, utensils-msg, feastgear-msg, Handwashing-art, French-Tbl-Srv-art.
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Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 21:27:00 -0500
From: allilyn at juno.com (LYN M PARKINSON)
Subject: SC - Re: Nefs
On Wed, 17 Sep 1997 14:11:35 +0000 Erin Kenny <Erin.Kenny at sofkin.ca> writes:
>> At some times and places in period, salt cellars became wild and elaborate
>> items, fancy and decorated statues. These were called nefs. They
>> frequently had wheels on them so they could be rolled from one end of a
>> table to another, and they were richly decorated.
>
>Could you tell me a little more about them? What were they made out
>of? How big would they be? This sounds like a project to
>"encourage" on my husband in exchange for some food or clothing!
>
>Claricia Nyetgale
Nefs were generally made of metal, often silver or gold. Talk about
conspicuous consumption!! Benvenuto Cellini made an exquisite one, if you
have access to photos of his work.
Allison
allilyn at juno.com
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 23:58:48 +0000
From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Re: Nefs
And it came to pass on 17 Sep 97, that LYN M PARKINSON wrote:
> Nefs were generally made of metal, often silver or gold. Talk about
> conspicuous consumption!! Benvenuto Cellini made an exquisite one,
> if you have access to photos of his work.
[snip]
At the risk of being cast out of the cathedral as a vile heretic, let
me mention that "Fabulous Feasts" includes several period
illustrations of feast tables with nefs upon them.
> Allison
Brighid ni Chiarain of Tethba
Barony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 23:20:44 -0600 (MDT)
From: "Jamey R. Lathrop" <jlathrop at unm.edu>
Subject: Re: SC - Re: Nefs
On Wed, 17 Sep 1997, Erin Kenny wrote:
> Could you tell me a little more about them? What were they made out
> of? How big would they be? This sounds like a project to
> "encourage" on my husband in exchange for some food or clothing!
>
> Claricia Nyetgale
On page 110 of my copy of P.W. Hammond's _Food and Feast in Medieval
England_, there's a photograph of the beautiful "Burghley Nef, made from a
nautilus shell mounted in silver parcel gilt, French, 1482...."
It's gonna take an awful lot of food and clothing to get one of these out
of your husband! ;-)
Allegra Beati
Barony of al-Barran
Kingdom of the Outlands
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 13:43:46 -0400
From: marilyn traber <margali at 99main.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Re: Nefs
Erin Kenny wrote:
> Could you tell me a little more about them? What were they made out
> of? How big would they be? This sounds like a project to
> "encourage" on my husband in exchange for some food or clothing!
>
> Claricia Nyetgale
> Caldrithig, Skraeling Althing, Ealdormere
> (Erin.Kenny at sofkin.ca)
nef is the older french term for a ship, and at one time, the particular
bin for the royal feast gear was called a nef, probably because the one
I have seen in the loure dating to the 1100s was in the form of a
norman comquest type boat of silver and jewels. The neatest one I have
seen is in the wadsworth athaneum and is a whole mother of pearl
shell[looks like a giant snail shell] in a kind of neptune in a seahorse
drawn boat. By the time the renn came about[this one was from some
italian palace in the 1450s or so] they changed from a container to a
gaudy way to display your wealth. I have one of those shells, I was
going to use it for a nef but the cat knocked it off the shelf and it
has a few cracks in it. *sigh*
margali
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 04:02:23 -0700
From: James Prescott <prescotj at telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Haversacks and nefts (??)
As requested, here's a reference for 'nef' as ship, from
Lewis, A.R. and Runyan, T.J. European Naval and Maritime History,
300-1500. Indiana University Press. Bloomington. 1985.
p.66 "... the so-called _naves_ or _nefs_, which were large
round-ships, lateen-rigged, with two masts ..."
p.73 has a line-drawing of a Genoese nef based on the best
available evidence.
p.74 "They may have been cheaper to build or to operate than a
_nef_." The word _nef_ is used two more times on this page.
p.82 "Already by 1400, as we have noted, the older Mediterranean
round-ships such as _nefs_ and _taurides_ had been replaced by
more efficient northern European _cogs_."
p.83 "Often built as large as 700 or 1,000 tons, _carracks_,
which were sometimes also called _nefs_ in the fifteenth century,
carried most of the heavy bulk cargoes, such as salt, wheat, cotton,
and timber, throughout the Mediterranean."
I like that one -- it has carracks (sometimes called nefs) carrying
salt!
I know I've seen the word used in other books on the period.
A bit of further dictionary work yields the following:
In the OED under 'navy' definition 2.c gives the meaning of "A single
ship", with both citations spelling it 'nave'.
In my small dictionary of Old French we have four meanings given
for nef (not counting its meaning as 'turnip'):
- -A Ship
- -A nave of a church
- -A piece of (gold or silver) plate that one placed on the table
representing initially a ship
- -A large driking vessel, a goblet
So one might have someone in period, if they were French or in
contact with France, referring to their goblet as their 'nef'.
- --
Thorvald Grimsson / James Prescott
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 02:36:33 -0700
From: James Prescott <prescotj at telusplanet.net>
Subject: SC - More on 'Nef' (including a citation)
Thorvald here:
I've tracked down a published extract of the article I referred
to last week concerning the nef. The original article was from
the early 80's, and the extract / summary was published in May
1986 in a local SCA newsletter (_The Montengarde Mouthpiece_).
It was written by Sir Conrad von Graz.
First, an excerpt from the extract:
"In period it was customary for every guest to bring his or
her own knife, spoon, salt, spices, napkin, & on occasion
goblet. ... Most of these things which a guest would bring
became part of the table setting during the feast & would
be carried in some sort of pouch which would lay on the
table before the guest (marking his or her place). This
pouch according to C. Anne Wilson in _Food & Drink in
Britain_ (London:Constable, 1976) was also called a NEF.
The following sketch is from p.58 of Wilson's work showing
the typical table setting for two guests:"
There follows a photocopy of the sketch showing from left to
right close to the diners: rolls (?in cloth?); trencher; spoon;
knife; platter; knife; spoon; trencher; rolls. Closer to the
center of the table, again from left to right: a small plate for
sauces; what appears to be a long leather case with closure
lying crosswise and labelled (by Wilson) 'Gentleman's nef'; a
goblet; what appears to be a cross-section view of a large
(?wooden? ?pottery? ?metal?) container adorned with the statue
of a peacock and with at least two deep holes one containing two
pieces of cutlery (?knife and spoon?) standing on end and the
other containing something white that might be intended to
represent a napkin or a container of salt or spices and labelled
(by Wilson) 'Lady's nef'; and finally a second plate for sauces.
The caption (by Wilson) for the sketch reads:
"This sketch shows the double table laying in greater detail.
Note the leather nef of the gentleman is far less elaborate
than that of the King. The page placed the food onto the
platter where the guest cut it onto pieces and placed them
on his trencher which served as a plate."
The extract does not say where or when the original of the
sketch came from, nor where Wilson got her information about
this meaning of nef.
So we have some evidence (depending on the reliability of C.
Anne Wilson, whose book I do not have and therefore cannot
judge) for nef referring to a container for some or all of
the things that a guest would bring to a feast.
I presume that a number of those on this list will have
this book, and can check directly and perhaps report on her
sources.
Sir Conrad also writes in the summary (I've strung relevant
bits together):
"... I am the source of the use of the term NEF for an SCA
table setting. ... to refer primarily to the basket or box
_plus_ contents which the typical SCA Feast Guest is
expected to bring to the SCA Feast or Revel. ... The final
shift from the container to contents took place at the 2nd
War Games [1984] where there was a contest ... they only
had table settings ... from that point onward NEF has meant
Table Setting, etc, in Avacal [then a region in An Tir, now
a Principality]."
I know I have a copy of the original article (which was more
complete than the extract I've been quoting from) somewhere, but
so far my ransacking of the files has not turned it up.
Stefan, it's interesting to note the mis-rememberings about the
contents of the article (at up to 20 year's distance) by both
myself and by Sir Conrad.
Thorvald
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 12:30:34 -0800
From: "Laura C. Minnick" <lcm at efn.org>
Subject: Re: SC - More on 'Nef' (including a citation)
Thorvald,
Your post got me wondering-where on earth did Wilson get this 'info'? I
wonder because:
A) I've never seen it elsewhere,
B) if guests brought their own stuff in a 'nef', why do no descriptions
of doing it show up in manners books, why do you not see anyone carrying
them in feast scenes, why do we not see a LOT of them on the tables,
behind the tables, under the tables, etc, and
C) where did the dishes go? A great many feast pictures show very few
dishes of the personal sort- did everyone forget their nef?
It just doesn't make sense to me...
'Lainie
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 17:13:38 -0500 (EST)
From: Jenne Heise <jenne at mail.browser.net>
Subject: Re: SC - More on 'Nef' (including a citation)
> goblet. ... Most of these things which a guest would bring
> became part of the table setting during the feast & would
> be carried in some sort of pouch which would lay on the
> table before the guest (marking his or her place). This
> pouch according to C. Anne Wilson in _Food & Drink in
> Britain_ (London:Constable, 1976) was also called a NEF.
> The following sketch is from p.58 of Wilson's work showing
> the typical table setting for two guests:"
There is no such sketch in the 1974 edition, or the 1991 edition.
The note on the 1991 edition from Academy Chicago Publishers says
"Originally published: Food & drink in Britain from the Stone Age to
recent times. London : Constable, 1973. With new introd. and
bibliography." Which leads me to believe that the 1991 edition was not
extensively revised.
There is, on p. 128 of the 1974 edition, an illustration from the
Lutterell Psalter showing people sitting eating at a table, and on p. 193
there is a woodcut of Early 17th century diners.
The term 'nef' does not appear in the index of the 1976 edition, and a
cursory scan of the text of the 1974 edition turns up only a few
references to knives and table settings.
> There follows a photocopy of the sketch showing from left to
> right close to the diners: rolls (?in cloth?); trencher; spoon;
> knife; platter; knife; spoon; trencher; rolls. Closer to the
> center of the table, again from left to right: a small plate for
> sauces; what appears to be a long leather case with closure
> lying crosswise and labelled (by Wilson) 'Gentleman's nef'; a
> goblet; what appears to be a cross-section view of a large
> (?wooden? ?pottery? ?metal?) container adorned with the statue
> of a peacock and with at least two deep holes one containing two
> pieces of cutlery (?knife and spoon?) standing on end and the
> other containing something white that might be intended to
> represent a napkin or a container of salt or spices and labelled
> (by Wilson) 'Lady's nef'; and finally a second plate for sauces.
This sketch doesn't appear anywhere in the editions I have.
> The extract does not say where or when the original of the
> sketch came from, nor where Wilson got her information about
> this meaning of nef.
I strongly suspect that this information did NOT come from C. Anne Wilson,
or at least from no edition of _Food and Drink in Britain_, but from
another source. (As a librarian we see this a lot: I call it 'citation
transfer'-- where one citation attaches itself to your notes from another
source. It's not uncommon: librarians estimate that 30% of scholarly
citations are inaccurate in some way and even outright wrong.)
Fabulous Feasts appears to have come out in 1976 originally-- does someone
have access to that edition? Please check p. 58 and see if the sketch is
there.
--
Jadwiga Zajaczkowa
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 16:36:09 -0600
From: "Michael Gunter" <countgunthar at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: SC - More on 'Nef' (including a citation)
The Oxford English Dictionary entry on "nef" has 2 quotes which, I think,
describe the item in question.
(1) "...the Nef being...a piece of gilt plate in the shape of the hull of a
ship in which the napkins for the king's table are kept."
(2) "Of these ornaments, one was the nef or ship--a vessel generally of
silver which contained the salt-cellar, towel, &c., of the prince or great
lord."
(Both these quotes come from the 19th century.)
BUT:
The 1998 Encyclopedia Britannica, v. 8, p. 581, has a nice color picture of
a silver-gilt nef in the British Museum, probably French, about 1530. The
article describes a nef as a European vessel in the the form of a ship,
possible originally used as a drinking vessel and then as a table ornament,
often of precious metal or rock crystal. It often had spaces for salt,
spices, or table utensils. Apparently the nef was another way in which to
display wealth and status.
Mathilde
Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 15:23:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jenne Heise <jenne at mail.browser.net>
Subject: SC - Nef quote
I promised to send this quote about nefs earlier, here it is:
Nef: from _The English Medieval Feast_ by William Edward Mead, (originally published circa 1937) (NY: Barnes & Noble, 1967) "If the feast were at all a pretentious one of the most conspicuous ornaments was likely to be the nef, a vessel in the form of a medieval ship with a high prow and stern. In some households this held the saltcellar, small towels for wiping the hands and mouth, and sometimes knives and spoons." p. 142
However, in p. 137, the author quotes:
"Meat and drink are ordained and convenient to dinners and feasts, for at first meat is prepared and arrayed; guests are called together; forms and stools are set in the hall, and tables, cloths, and towels are ordained, disposed, and made ready. Guests are set with the lord in the chief place of the board, and they sit not down at the board before the guests wash their hands. Children are set in their place, and servants at a table by themselves. FIRST, KNIVES, SPOONS, AND SALTS ARE SET ON THE BOARD, and then bread and drink, and many diverse messes . . ." [emphasis mine].
-- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer
Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 12:50:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jenne Heise <jenne at mail.browser.net>
Subject: SC - Nefs picture
Sarah may have found the original of the Nefs picture that we were
discussing (not the labelled sketch, the illumination from which it was
taken)...it's from a manuscript in the Bibliotheque Nationale du France:
http://www.bnf.fr/enluminures/images/jpeg/i2_0074.jpg
It's the only one I've ever seen with multiple nefs, and I wonder, looking
at the page design, if the multiple nefs are there as repeating decorative
elements?
--
Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise jenne at mail.browser.net
Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 13:28:46 -0700
From: "Laura C. Minnick" <lcm at efn.org>
Subject: Re: SC - Nefs picture
Olwen the Odd wrote:
> Wow. The picture is wonderful. I loved the heraldic outfits. I wish I
> could read the text. What is it about? Anyone know?
It's a picture from one of the French _Chronicles_ (one of the Charles',
but I don't remember the #) and it is a feast during the visit of
Charles IV of Bohemia (the guy in red with the hoop over his crown) to
the French court. The guys on the right are staging a re-enactment of
the seige of Jerusalem. IIRC, the guy near the bottom of the ladder in
the gold with black lion (matching banner on the boat) is Godfrey of
Bouillon.
Cool pic- did you notice the tablecloths with the woven diapered
pattern?
'Lainie
[corrected using a later message from Lainie - Stefan]
Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 22:53:42 +0200
From: tgl at mailer.uni-marburg.de
Subject: SC - Nefs picture
<< The picture is wonderful. ... What is it about? >>
According to Flandrin/Lambert, who also show this picture in their
"Fêtes gourmandes au Moyen Âge" (p. 110), this is a banquet given by
Charles V to Charles IV of Luxembourg. The surrounding scene is part of
a non-culinary "entremets": an interlude representing the conquest of
Jerusalem. -- Edition: Delachenal, R. (éd.): Les Grandes Chroniques des
France. Chroniques des règnes de Jean II et Charles V. Paris 1916.
They (Flandrin/Lambert) also show the "Nef de table" of Anne de Bretagne
(p. 47), a beautiful piece, and briefly comment on different functions
of nefs (p. 46): salt container, proba (poisoning test device),
container of cutlery, container of dishes given away from the table to
the poor.
In a contribution by Stéphane Vandenberghe to _Fêtes gourmandes_ on the
earliest forks, it is interesting to hear that in 1380 "la nef du roi
Charles V contient une coupe d'essai, une cuillère, un couteau et une
fourchette" (p. 45; source quoted: J. Labarte: Inventaire du mobilier de
Charles V, roi de France. Paris 1879, 46).
Thomas
Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 19:14:12 -0700
From: James Prescott <prescotj at telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Nefs picture
At 12:50 -0400 2001-05-01, Jenne Heise wrote:
> Sarah may have found the original of the Nefs picture that we were
> discussing (not the labelled sketch, the illumination from which it was
> taken).
Not the original of the infamous 'sketch', unfortunately. That's still
unidentified.
Thorvald
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 00:56:38 -0700
From: James Prescott <prescotj at telusplanet.net>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Nef revisited
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-coos at ansteorra.org>
This list has in the past occasionally discussed the origin
and meaning of the word 'nef'.
I was looking though Larousse Gastronomique (the 1961 English
translation) and tripped across the word 'nef' on page 95.
It's out of period, referring to the luncheon meals of Louis XIV,
but is still interesting.
Here's the quote:
"Then followed a gentleman-in-waiting the general controller
of the household, and other gentlemen of less exalted rank,
preceding the clerks of the kitchen carrying plates, the _nef_,
or a basket in which knives, spoons, forks, toothpicks, salt,
ginger, pepper, saffron and all the oriental pices were kept."
There's another mention on the next page:
"While one of the ushers went to announce to the king the arrival
of his meal, the Lord Steward bowed to the _nef_ (the cutlery
basket) which had been placed on the table, then took the napkinsout of it which a gentleman-in-waiting received between two gold
plates."
There's a further mention on page 97 in connection with Louis XV.
Reference:
Montagne, P. Larousse Gastronomique. First edition 1938.
Translated and edited by N. Froud et al. Paul Hamlyn. 1961.
Thorvald
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:18:25 -000
From: "Jeff Gedney" <gedney1 at iconn.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Nef revisited
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Nef is an old term for a type of boat, originally referring a largish
sort of Knarr or "Halfskip" (which was a double ended sort of canoe
shape, about 2.5 to 3 times as long as wide, and used by Northern
European travellers and trades for exploration adn cargo).
"Nef" as a term seems to have been used mostly in the French contexts,
so it is quite likely that this usage originally referred in some way
to the shape of the basket.
It was probably a pointed oval or boat shape, deep nd wide, narrowing
at the ends.
There is also an eccelsiastical boat shaped incense burner that was
also called a Nef.
Brandu
(AKA-SCA) Capt. Elias Gedney
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 21:07:01 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Nef revisited
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
("Une nef d'un travail exquis pour le sel") is the one phrase that
I came across to describe them. (The original discussion of this I
think was before my time.) see
http://www.tribunes.com/tribune/sel/mon1.htm
See Cosman's Fabulous Feasts for some other pictures.
The Duke de Berry is dining in the month of January in plate 2
This can be found on the web at:
http://gallery.euroweb.hu/html/l/limbourg/
Also 1 figure 15 which is taken from--
Grandes Chroniques de France, XIVe s. (BNF, FR 2813)
You can browse these on the web now---
http://www.bnf.fr/enluminures/manuscrits/man5.htm
Banquet en l'honneur de Charles IV.
http://www.bnf.fr/enluminures/manuscrits/man5/i2_0074.htm
Banquet offert par Charles V au palais de la CitŽ, en honneur de l'empereur
Charles IV et de Wenceslas IV, roi de Bohme. Au cours de ce banquet, fut
prŽsentŽ un spectacle Žvoquant la premire croisade et la prise de JŽrusalem
par Godefroy de Bouillon. (FR 2813)
fol. 473v Grandes Chroniques de France
France, Paris, XIVe s. (190 x 190 mm)
Click on the image to enlarge it.
Johnnae llyn Lewis
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 13:02:04 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] extant medieval Saltcellars
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
julian wilson wrote:
> Can any Lister point me to books or online pictures at websites which
> have clear illustrations of extant medieval Saltcellars in Museums or
> private Collections?
> A friendly Master Pewterer has intimated that he will consider making
> one for our Companie's High Table, if he has some clear,
> graphic-reference sources to work from.
One can search under the words salt cellar as a Google
images search. That turns up the Renaissance Cellini example.
How elaborate did the Master Pewterer want to be?
Another great source is the V&A images file--
http://www.vam.ac.uk/ look under collections and click on
Access to Images
There are a number of elaborate ones displayed there.
The British Museum also has a few images up including a lovely 16th century
page featuring 3 drawings under
Giulio Romano, Three Shell-Shaped Salt Cellars, pen and ink wash designs
Italy, AD 1530s
Go to http://www.thebritishmuseum.ac.uk/sitemap/sitemap.html
and insert the terms salt cellar to see a slection.
Johnnae
I am tempted to say that I'm not a Lister-- I'm a Librarian....
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 12:32:55 -0800
From: Susan Fox <selene at earthlink.net>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Art news: Cellini salt cellar found!
To: <caid at sca-caid.org>, Cooks within the SCA
<sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
This solid gold salt cellar, dated to the 1540's, has been called
"The Mona Lisa of Sculpture."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/4636668.stm
Selene Colfox
<the end>
