sugar-paste-msg - 01/9/08

Making sugar paste sotelties. molds. gum tragacanth sources. sugar paste sources.

NOTE: See also these files: Sugar-Paste-art, sugar-msg, candy-msg, desserts-msg, Sugarplums-art, Roses-a-Sugar-art, Bakng-w-Sugar-art, Sugarplat-Adv-art.

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NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I  have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I  have done  a limited amount  of  editing. Messages having to do  with separate topics  were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the  message IDs  were removed to save space and remove clutter.

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Please  respect the time  and  efforts of  those who have written  these messages. The  copyright status  of these messages  is  unclear  at this time. If  information  is  published  from  these  messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

Thank you,
    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
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From: fp458 at cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Elise A. Fleming)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Plate that you can eat
Date: 27 Nov 1994 14:28:50 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)

The plate in the original query referred to "sugar plate" or 
"sugar paste", mundanely called "gum paste."  It is a dough-like
substance similar to edible play dough made of finely ground sugar,
a liquid (such as rosewater), gum tragacanth ("gum dragon") and
in period, egg white.  The gum and egg white served to strengthen
the mixture which was kneaded until the proper consistency.  It's
a rather forgiving material.  If you make it too moist, you can 
add more ground (powdered) sugar.  If too dry, add more liquid.
Virtually any item can be shaped from it.  Period sources (Murrell
in 1598 or thereabouts) say that you can use molds, "tin cutters",
knives, or your hands.  About two years ago my article on sugar
paste was printed in Tournaments Illuminated.  If you want more
specific information, let me know.  For novices, using modern gum
paste  is the easiest way to practice with this medium.  Gum paste
can be found in most cake decorating supply stores.

The plates and goblets made of this material dry hard enough to hold
liquid and don't dissolve.  However, Murrell warns about keeping 
them away from heat.  After the banquet (meaning the dessert course)
the Tudor and Elizabethan diners could toss their dishes and eat the
pieces.  The plates could also be colored and decorated.

In Italy (if not in England) sugar paste formed part of large 
statues.  It is fairly easy to roll out sections of paste and lay
it over an armature so that one has, for example, a 10'tall 
statue covered with sugar!  I'd love to work with someone on a 
project like that.  I'm not a sculptor but I sure can do flat work.

Alys Katharine
(donor of sugar paste items to Outlands and Middle Kingdom Royalty and
to TFYC)


From: fp458 at cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Elise A. Fleming)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Plate that you can eat
Date: 27 Nov 1994 14:39:29 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)

I was the Pennsic instructor doing the class on subtleties.  We
have an informal newsletter for the "Interkingdom Guild of Con-
fectioners" which also will tackle cooking questions, comments.
I am the editor.  Subscription fee is $10.00 for 5 issues and
back issues are sent to "catch up" the subcriber to the current
newsletter.  For interested people, checks are to be made to the
Guild and sent to Elise Fleming, 3950 Walter Rd., No. Olmsted,
OH 44070-2111.

Elise/Alys Katharine


From: fp458 at cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Elise A. Fleming)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Plate that you can ea
Date: 10 Dec 1994 10:02:03 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)

Gum tragacanth, cheapest source, is Penn Herb.  Toll free number
is 1-800-523-9971 (presumably for orders over $15).  For orders
under $15, for information, or if you're calling from the 215
area code it's 215-925-3336.  Tragacanth gum is #630.  It comes
in powder form.  One ounce is $2.35, much cheaper than the price
from Sweet Celebrations in Minneapolis.  Four ounces is $7.25
and one pound is $27.50.  There is a shipping charge.  Penn Herb
sells all other kinds of herbs and herbal items.  They say they
are "Pennsylvania's Largest Medicinal Herb House."

Elise/Alys Katharine


From: Elise A. Fleming (12/18/94)
To: markh at sphinx
RE>Plate that you can ea

Greetings, Stefan!  Did I post you where to find commercial gum
paste mix?  If not, here it is.  You can order it from Sweet
Beginnings, 1-800-328-6722.  They take major credit cards.  They
charge the actual shipping cost plus $1.00.  The item is "gum 
paste mix" #73318.  It is $3.00 per one-pound package.

While I've read that gum paste dries transluscent (even transpa-
rent) I've never found that correct.  It is like a white clay
that you can roll thickly or thinly.  The thinner it is the more
delicate but also the better it drapes.  I haven't worked much
with drapey things.  I've worked with flat objects such as tiles
and plates, as well as constructing boxes (one even contained a
real baronial coronet).  I've also made some flowers, a flower
pot, and several goblets.

If you want to get gum tragacanth, I'd suggest the four-ounce
size.  One ounce won't go far and you aren't sure if you want
as much as the one-pound.  Frankly, the only reason to use gum
tragacanth paste is if you want to be thoroughly "in period"
and need to document the work for a competition.  Otherwise the
modern stuff is a close approximation.  I'd be glad to give you
the rationale if you need it for competition.

Once you practice with the pre-mixed stuff you might want to 
try mixing a modern variation with a powder, your own sugar, and
glucose.  All three pastes, tragacanth, pre-mixed, and mix-your-
own feel a little different.  Mix-your-own tends to be a little
more beige.  The period stuff is white.  The pre-mixed is pretty
white.

Other things you can do with this are to make plain candies or
wrap almonds in it.  YOu can use molds to make walnuts with a
trinket hidden inside.  If you are a sculptor, you can make
anything that you like with it.

I'm talking another person through using gum paste via e-mail.
Hers has been too sticky.  It's a fairly forgiving medium.  If
it's too sticky, add more powdered sugar.  If it's too dry,
add more liquid.  Oh, and you can add flavorings, too.

Let me know how things go!

Alys K./Elise


From: Elise A. Fleming (12/21/94)
To: markh at sphinx

Greetings!  

You're right.  It's Sweet Celebrations.  I was going on (increas-
ingly) faulty memory.  I'll post you back this coming Chrismas
weekend on specific period books for sugar paste.  There are at
least two that mention items to be made from it.  None tell you
how to work it.  I found it helpful to get several from the local
library (or county library loan) that gave me help on working 
with the paste itself.  Making a flower in period is making a
flower modernly.

The gum paste doesn't "seep" around the trinket.  It is a solid
and if the paste is so wet that it "seeps" then you can't get
it off your fingers!  In general, I probably wouldn't _push_
the item into the paste.  I'd use a hollow mold such as a walnut
and when the halves dry, place the trinket into the space and
glue the two halves together with egg white or "royal icing".

As for coloring, that's worth several postings.  I've begun
(and nearly finished) a list of period colors used in foods, plus
at least one period source that mentions it.  Some of the colors
(coloring agents) were toxic!  You can color the walnut with a
combination of ground cinnamon and nutmeg.  This gets kneaded
into the paste before the shell is made.  You can also paint some
objects.  I've put "shells" onto almonds, colored the paste with
cinnamon, and pricked "holes" into the shells just like an almond
shell.  Then I put the sugar almonds into a bowl with shelled
real almonds.  People kept asking me for the nutcracker!

Molds are available from Sweet Celebrations and from other cake
decorating supply stores.  Ours doesn't carry the walnut shell
but I got it from my apprentice who found it in a store in her
city.  You can make your own molds.  At least one of the period
cookbooks tells how, using plaster.  Any modern material might
work just as well

I'll look up the books this weekend and post you a list!

Alys


From: Elise A. Fleming (12/26/94)
To: Mark Harris
RE>Confections

Greetings!  Tried to send mail yesterday but Freenet wouldn't find
my file.  I'm guessing the whole system was down.

You mentioned books that told how warners and sotelties were made.
To my knowledge there are none in period.  There are certainly
descriptions of sotelties that can be found in historical accounts.
Was that what you were interested in?  I have some listings of 
those.  One that I recall off the top of my head (Whew! Wondered
what was sitting up there! :) ) listed a crown that shone as if
the jewels were enamel.  I've always thought that the description
made a good case for colored sugar, boiled and cooled to a glass.
The boiled sugar syrup was done in Spain in the 13th c. and is in
Forme of Curye (I believe that's the book) as "sugar plate".  The
existence of "sugar plate" as a boiled sugar syrup poured out into
plate form is why I tend to call what I do "sugar _paste_."

If you go rummaging through books on historical foods and check out
subtleties, etc., you'll probably come across a number of examples.

You're correct that many books do concentrate on icings.  You'd 
want to check out "gum paste" or "marzipan."  Sweet Celebrations
carries a number of books, several from England, on the topic but
I think the prices are high.  Everyone charges a lot for these
specialty books.  (Bought one two months ago that I thought was
around $8 and it turned out to be something like $28!  And it was
more like a pamphlet!)  No, they don't do things like fake almonds
and walnuts probably because a) they haven't thought of them, or
b) they're simple and don't need directions.  You need directions
to learn how to cut and roll and shape flower petals.

I doubt that you could squeeze sugar paste from a cake decorating
tube.  It would need to be more liquid that it is supposed to be.
First, decorating tubes probably didn't exist within period.  There
is evidence that certain fried cakes were made by putting the
batter into a pan with a hole and removing and replacing a finger
to let the batter drip into the fat.  I haven't seen any evidence
for things like icing to be squeezed out that way.  In fact, icing
as we know it didn't exist within period.  A sugar and liquid (rose
water) icing was made and spread over the tops of some things such
as marchpanes but at least in England it wasn't specified for 
cakes (which weren't like our modern cakes either).  The icing 
(because it was to resemble "ice") was spread on with a feather
and set into the oven to harden and shine.  Several layers, I be-
lieve, could be added.  No, gum paste/sugar paste was a different
medium.  It is for modeling items to resemble real-life things.

Now, I will suggest that you try working with the paste, trinkets,
and molds the way you think it should be done.  You can prove me
wrong!  Which is what I've done to other proclamations by other
people.  If you take a ball of sugar paste, push a trinket into
the middle, and then push this into a shape or mold, I seriously
doubt that you will be able to get the trinket out.  When sugar
paste hardens, it hardens rock hard.  The thicker the paste, the
harder it is to break.  That's why one should roll it thinly.
Second, if the paste were to get in around the edges of a trinket
as it would if you pushed the trinket into a ball of paste, one
(error) once you could break it open you'd then have to carefully
soak the hardened paste from off the trinket where it would main-
tain a death grip.

Sugar paste will dry so hard that you can put liquid (cold, not
hot) into a goblet and drink from it.  We tried soaking a piece
of hard paste and after an hour it still hadn't dissolved.  If
you want someone to use or play with the trinket, it should go
into a hollow, dried item.  (But, try it and prove me wrong!)

Yes, you roll the paste into a thin sheet.  How thin depends on
what you find "workable".  Press the small sheet into the mold,
trim off the edges with a sharp knife and store all the scraps
under a glass or in a plastic bag.  You can knead all the scraps
back together and re-use.

You can use egg white or royal icing.  Royal icing (recipes found
in many cake decorating books) is made from powdered sugar and
a liquid.  Use water rather than cream if you're worried about
spoilage.  This is where experience helps.  The resulting
icing needs to be thick, but not too thick.  It should be some-
thing like Elmer's glue.  If it's too thin, it will dribble
down the side of your mold and you'd have to clean it off.  A
little would probably remain and spoil the color.  Or, worse,
you'd wipe off some of the surface of the sugar paste as it
began to dissolve.  (Sounds like I'm contradicting what I said
above, but I'm not.  Painting with liquid will dissolve the
top layer of the sugar.  Too much liquid and you have a mess on
your hands.  Too much fiddling trying to get the color just 
right and your brush has been gunked up with a sticky sugar/color
mixture.)  Back to joining the stuff.  The "glue" should sit on
top of the edge.  When you press the two edges together some will
probably ooze out.  Take a knife and remove the "glue".

Now, as far as egg whites.  There certainly is a scare, isn't 
there?  If it bothers you, get powdered egg whites.  This is
available from Sweet Celebrations and other cake decorating supply
stores.  You can mix up some of that without worry.  In fact,
I sometimes use that in making period sugar paste rather than
a fresh egg white.

Coloring:  I've experimented with some period colors.  Saffron
makes a nice yellow.  Saunders I had problems with.  My appren-
tice Rosamund tried using ground roses which gave a dusky pink.
I use paste food colors.  (Also available from Sweet Celebrations
or any cake decorating store.)  I take a plastic lid (such as
a Cool Whip lid), sprinkle some drops of water on it.  Then I
take a small amount of the paste food color and stir it into
a drop of water.  Now, here's where it would be nicer if we
were face-to-face.  You can adjust the shade by using more
color or more water.  HOWEVER!  The more water you use, the 
more you will dissolve away a small part of your item.  You
can't put on lots of colored water and let it sit there.  It
WILL dissolve part of your item and it may not dry well.  You
need to use just enough liquid to color the section and soak
in, not stand on top as excess liquid.  

You might try using vodka instead of water.  I haven't tried it
by Rosamund says it works well and the vodka evaporates faster
than water, she says.

Prior to my painting colors onto the sugar piece I usually 
outline the picture/design with a non-toxic black felt marker.
Crayola has some for kids, although now that my pieces aren't
being eaten, I tend to use any medium tip black felt pen.  My
personal opinion is that the black outline sets the design 
out.  The black line also gives a "buffer" so that you paint
within the lines.  If you're careful, any liquid will soak
_to_ the line, not _past_ the line.  This comes with experience
and by making mistakes.  YOu can cut/scrape away errors with 
an Exacto knife, for instance.  You might have to let the color
dry, however, or you could smear it an make a worse mess.

Paste food colors are better to work with than liquid food 
colors.  You can adjust the amount of liquid in the former.
There also are powdered food colors.  I've tried some but had
little luck with them, although someone else swears they work
better.  They're also generally harder to find than paste
colors.

You certainly should be able to cast a cockroach.  Has anyone
in your area worked with the modeling compounds?  Craft stores
carry stuff to make molds with.  I just haven't tried any.
I was wondering if you cooked up spaghetti, laid out the cooked
strands to a certain curve and cut to length, if that might 
make a realistic leg.  Spaghetti can be painted.  It dried
(error) dries hard, and would be edible.

Well, now!  I've been typing for 47 minutes and haven't sent
you the list of books.  I'll see what I can squeeze in.  (I
get one hour per connection!)

A clear recipe is in _The Second Part of the Good Hus-wives
Jewell_, Thomas Dawson, 1597.  John Murrell, 1617, _A Daily
Exercise for Ladies and Gentlewomen_, gives lists of things
that can be made with sugar paste.  Other sources include:
_Martha Washington's Booke of Cookery_, transcribed by Karen
Hess, Columbia University Press, 1981.  Recipes date from
mid-1600s.  An excellent book to have, anyhow, for learning
to read Renaissance cookery terms and interpreting what to
do.

Gervase Markham, 1615, _The English Huswife_, ed. Michael Best,
McGills-Queens Univ. Press, 1986.

Robert May, _The Accomplisht Cook_, 1685

Sir Hugh Plat, 1609, _Delightes for Ladies_.  Cariadoc's 
"Collection of Medieval and Renaissance Cookbooks" has this.

The Lord Ruthuen, _The Ladies Cabinet_, 1655 (Falconwood Press
did a reprint.)

Hilary Spurling, _Elinor Fettiplace's Receipt Book_, 1609,
Elisabeth Sifton Books, Viking, 1986

W.M., _A Queen's Delight_, 1671, Prospect Books reprint, 1984.

Wilton cake decorating books almost always contain sections
on gum paste, fondant, Mexican paste, pastillage.  These are all
similar mediums.  I've got my
five minute warning to get off the system.  What else can
I bombard you with???

Alys/Elise


From: Elise A. Fleming (12/26/94)
To: markh at sphinx
sugar paste

Greetings, again!  I have some material that I'd like to see if
I can upload to you (never having done this before by myself).
So, here goes.A partial list of items in period books that were made with 
sugar paste. 
 
dishes, trenchers, snakes, snails, frogs, roses, cherries, 
strawberries, marigolds, shoes, slippers, keys, knives, gloves, 
letters, knots, "jumballs", apples, walnuts, cinnamon sticks, 
plates, dishes, cups, marbles, table furnishings, burrage 
flowers, pigeons, skulls and bones, capital letters, clasps 
and eyes, wax lights, cowslips, primroses, stock gilliflowers, 
rabbits, any bird or beast 
 
Methods of making sugar paste items (from period books) 
 
molds carved inwards 
double molds (for cherries, strawberries, etc.  Twig is insert- 
  ed for stalk) 
cut with tin instrument (cookie cutter, query I???) 
knife 
hand 
pincers 
tin, wood or stone molds (Murrell says that if you aren't skill- 
  ed, you can use a tin mold) 
reeds (to wrap candy cinnamon sticks around) 
handle of a wooden spoon 
 
A period recipe:  Thomas Dawson, _The Second Part of the Good 
Hus-wives Jewell_, 1597, entitled "To make a past of Suger,  
whereof a man may make al manner of fruits, and other fine 
things, with their forme, as Plates, Dishes, Cuppes and such 
like thinges, wherewith you may furnish a Table." 
 
"Take Gumme and dragant as much as you wil, and steep it in 
Rosewater til it be mollified, and for foure ounces of suger 
take of it the bigness of a beane, the iuyce of Lemon, a walnut 
shel ful, and a little of the white of an eg.  But you must  
first take the gumme, and beat it so much with a pestell in a 
brasen morter, till it be come like water, then put to it the 
iuyce with the white of an egge, incorporating al these wel 
together, this done take four ounces of fine white suger wel 
beaten to powder, and cast it into the morter by a litle and 
a litle, until they be turned into the form of paste, then 
take it out of the said morter, and bray it upon the powder 
of suger, as it were meale or flower, untill it be like soft 
paste, to the end you may turn it, and fashion it which way 
you wil, as is aforesaid, with such fine knackes as may serve 
a Table taking heed there stand no hotte thing nigh it.  At 
the end of the Banket they may eat all, and breake the Platters 
Dishes, Glasses Cuppes, and all other things, for this paste 
is very delicate and saverous.  If you will make a Tarte of 
Almondes stamped with suger and Rosewater of this sorte that 
Marchpaines be made of, this shal you laye between two pastes 
of such vessels or fruits or some other things as you thinke 
good." 
 
Alys's approximations 
 
1 teaspoon lemon juice 
2 teaspoons rosewater (or more as needed) 
1/2 to one lightly beaten egg white (can use reconstituted 
  dried egg white) 
1 teaspoon gum tragacanth 
up to a pound or so of powdered sugar (4 cups = 1 pound) 
 
Soak the gum tragacanth in the rosewater until it softens. 
Mix it thoroughly.  It should become liquidy rather than paste- 
like.  Add more liquid (water, rosewater) as necessary.  Mix 
it with the lemon juice and egg white.  Add the powdered sugar 
bit by bit, mixing well.  If it becomes too stiff and there is 
a great deal of sugar left, add additional liquid or the rest 
of the egg white.  Knead the dough on a board sprinkled with 
powdered sugar until the dough is smooth and stretchy.  Then 
use it to shape what you will.  Keep the unused portions and 
all scraps well covered under a glass jar, in a plastic bag, 
or under a slightly damp cloth.  (If the cloth is too damp 
the paste will begin to dissolve.  Add more powdered sugar 
and re-knead.)
 
WORKING WITH AND PAINTING ON SUGAR PASTE,  A FEW HINTS
 
1.  Plan ahead!  Sugar paste takes several days to a week or
more to dry thoroughly.  Lay the pieces on waxed paper and turn
them from time to time to allow both sides to dry.  You can also
lay them on styrofoam pieces.   Keep them away from heat and
moisture.
 
2.  Use waxed paper, a light coating of vegetable oil or Pam, or
a dusting of powdered sugar or cornstarch to help the sugar
paste come out from a mold.
 
3.  Use non-toxic markers to outline the picture or words you
want on the dried piece.  If the marker "bleeds" you will then
know to be extra careful when applying the color so that it
doesn't bleed out of the lines.
 
4.  Mix your colors on, for example, a plastic lid.  Some people
prefer to use vodka instead of water.  Use only small amounts of
liquid.  The "runnier" the color is, the more likely it will run
out of the area you are painting.  Let it dry a little and use a
sharp knife to cut out the mistake or to make the edge sharper.
 
5.  If yours is a display piece, spray it with several coats of
acrylic laquer (available at hobby supply places) to protect
against moisture and people's fingers.  If it is edible you need
to be careful when handling it since your fingers may
accidentally transfer bits of color to other parts of the item. 
The same goes for wrapping it in plastic wrap.  Use a clean
piece each time you wrap it up.
 
6.  Work can be done by freehand or by transferring the pattern.  
Methods of transfer can range from carbon paper (be careful!),
using soft pencil and tracing over that, overhead projector to
project the image in varying sizes, etc.
 
7.  "Glue" pieces together with egg white or royal icing (egg
white, powdered sugar, liquid).  Smooth over wrinkles and lines
with a small amount of moisture and your finger or other tool. 
You can also sand out imperfections or cut them off with a sharp
knife when the piece is dry.
 
8.  Within reason, the thinner the sugar paste the prettier and
better it looks.  If the item is a bowl, for example, and is
very thin, it may lose its shape if it is exposed to moisture in
the air.  Pennsic nights will damage pieces that have been dried
for years.
 
Well!  It worked!  (Couldn't find the file, at first).  This is
part of my handout on sugar paste and I thought that it might
add to what I sent earlier this morning.  Hope you can plow 
through it all!

Alys K.


From: Elise A. Fleming (1/5/95)
To: Mark Harris
RE>sugar paste

Greetingss!  The other side of town got its first big snow.  The
news reports were full of closed highways, a 30+ car accident, etc.
I looked out my window, less than 25 miles away from the furor, and
saw grass.  We have an odd weather pattern in this area!

Ok.  A "jumball", in all its odd spellings is a "knot."  I would
recommend to you the book _'Banquetting Stuffe'_ edited by C. Anne
Wilson.  It's around $25 and WELL WORTH IT!!  Those of us into
desserts find all sorts of answers.  I found some knot patterns
there.  One sort of knot looks like a pretzel.  There are many
recipes for iumbals (another spelling) in late period or rather
1625-1660 books.

As to marbles, I assume it's what one plays with.  I haven't
found any other reference.  But imagine, going to a banquet and
being served an edible hockey puck, or baseball, etc.

I doubt, from the way it is worded, that it refers to things made
of marble.  Statues were made of sugar and I have just come across
the proceedings of the Oxford Symposium where some of these are
described in detail.  I hope to include it in an upcoming Confec-
tion newsletter.

Period dice?  What about being carved of ivory?  Again, I don't
know.  One of the students made dice out of sugar paste, though,
and had fun playing with them when they dried.

Twisting around a reed:  Yup, my guess is as yours.  A reed is
straight and of uniform thickness, and is readily available in
streams.  Twigs are twisty and usually short, with odd projec-
tions.  Reeds were in demand for making calligraphy writing 
tools.  Tried making my own once under the tutelage of a Laurel
who makes his own reed pens.  Ri-i-i-ght!

Rosewater isn't that hard to find up here.  I go to Middle East
grocery or food stores.  (Biased note:  Finding a _clean_ one
is hard!)  I've been in two, after the one I usually used
closed, and the  shelves were dirty, dusty, and there was some-
thing floating in the rosewater.  So I left.  Might try an
Indian (from India) store also.  Actually, I've grown to like
rosewater.  Generally I use it watered down so it doesn't 
strike one as "perfume".  (Got my five minute disconnect warn-
ing again!)

Crayola markers say "non toxic" on the box.  They only give
you one black per box however.  So, I began using black felt
tip pens because NO ONE WAS GOING TO EAT THAT PARTICULAR
PIECE!  If it is made to be edible, I use the Crayola.  There
isn't any flavor that I am aware of.  hardly any black is used
since it is just for outlining.

As to the intricate painting:  In period it would have been
the banquetting dishes.  The cover of _'Banquetting Stuffe'_
has one.  These are dishes used for the sweets.  However, my
stuff is SCA stuff, frequently given by royalty to royalty.
So, I do a plate with the kingdom arms, or a period design
with items pertaining to the royalty.  I make plates to look
like the Italian or Spanish Renaissance pottery.  

There are some period potteries that will give ideas.  One minute

Bye!
Alys


From: Elise A. Fleming (1/5/95)
To: Mark Harris
sugar things

Hello, again.  I just haven't gotten into the mindset that I
should type all this out first and then have the program "auto-
type" it.  Got caught again by that darn one-hour restriction.

This will be short.  I just wanted to finish the previous post.

Regarding painted objects:  I mentioned that in Tudor and Stuart
times there were wooden (I don't think they were ceramic) plates
with complicated designs.  A picture is on the cover of the book
I mentioned.  Some had verses or other items on the reverse side
and at the end of the banquet the diner had to recite or sing what
was on the reverse side.

Most of my painted work is done for display within the SCA  rather
than in a medieval context.  I have some postcards from a Pennsic
vendor of the period-style pottery he/she makes.  My plates look
much like them.  There are pattern books for some of the designs.
Dover has one on Renaissance designs and one book shows the 
decorated pottery piece.  Other designs I take from manuscripts.
The borders are easily transferable to the border of a plate, a
tile, or a bowl.

I had started out trying to make a modern cake look like a 
medieval book (made several that had turnable, edible pages) and
made a few cakes that tried to look like manuscripts.

Late in period the Italians had a pottery manufacturing business
where they pre-made and decorated the dishes but left the center
blank so they could insert the arms of the the purchaser.  I
don't know that the English ever got into this.  The Spanish
and Portuguese also had decorated pottery.  The implication is
that the English didn't, even in Elizabethan times, since it
seemed to be a novelty that they could throw these edible plates
and watch them break.

I'v also made a book, the covers of which were sugar paste with
designs pressed into them and "jewels" added.  Painted decora-
tions were also used, especially inside the two covers.  These
were flat sections with holes put in the sides so that it could
be bound with cord (hand-made lucet cord).  The inside pages
were of wafer (rice) paper and were painted with food colors and
a liquid gold that wasn't edible.  The writing was done with
a fiber tip pen.  I'm not a calligrapher (not much of one, any-
how) so I didn't want to try using calligraphy ink, etc. 
Except for the secions where the gold was it _could_ have been
edible.

In the SCA we also seem to "split time" -- the real, medieval
world and re-creating things that would have been accepted
there, and the SCA world where no one questions painted plates
and tiles.  I've tried both.  I guess, however, I have more
experience with the latter.

I said this would be short and I keep going on.  Time to end.

Alys


Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 11:19:57 -0600 (MDT)
From: Mary Morman <memorman at oldcolo.com>
Subject: SC - Gum Tragacanth

I was pleased to find gum tragacanth being sold by the very reputable
Dragonmarsh at Worldcon over Labor Day.  You can contact them at:

	DragonMarsh
	3737 6th Street
	Riverside, CA  92501

	909-276-1116

Elaina


Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 16:26:10 -0500 (CDT)
From: alysk at ix.netcom.com (Elise Fleming )
Subject: SC - Gums Arabic and Tragacanth

Greetings!  (Drat digest format where it's harder to quote from posts!) 
 Someone mentioned getting gum arabic and thought other names for it 
were gum tragacanth, gum dragon, etc.  No, and no.  Gum arabic isn't 
gum tragacanth.  While both are used in cookery, gum tragacanth's 
primary use in period seems to have been in making sugar paste (modern 
day gum paste).  You can't substitute gum arabic for gum tragacanth.  I 
would hypothesize that the reverse would also be true, that one 
shouldn't substitute gum tragacanth for gum arabic.  One of 
tragacanth's uses is as a strengthener.  Arabic has been used to mix 
with colorants so that one can paint them onto foods or confections.

When using one or the other, see what the recipe says, then use that 
one.  I've been in the presence of sugar paste made with gum arabic.  
'Tain't the same thing!

Alys Katharine


Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 16:34:45 -0500 (CDT)
From: alysk at ix.netcom.com (Elise Fleming )
Subject: SC - 13th-Century Andalusian Sugar Candy

Greetings!  Here's the recipe (my translation) from the 13th-century 
Anonymous Manuscript.  Charles Perry holds the copyright for what is in 
Cariadoc's _Collection_ but a bunch of us did the initial translations 
from Spanish to English.

"Figures dressed in sugar"

Cast to the sugar a similar amount of water or rose water and cook 
until its height is good.  Tip it over into the mould and make of it 
whatever shape is in the mould, in the hidden places and those visible 
and whatever it seems on the dish that you want, because it comes out 
of the mould in the best way.  Then decorate it with gilt and whatever 
you want of it.  If you want to make a tree or a figure of a castle, 
cut it piece by piece.  Then decorate it room by room (section by 
section) and stick it together with mastic until you complete the 
figure you want, if God wills.

From this I would assume that moulds of some sort are used.  In England 
at a later date moulds would be made of wood or plaster.  Wooden ones 
would be soaked for up to a day and moulds would come in at least two, 
if not three, parts.  Hollow figures were made in England by twirling 
the mould overhead or in one's hands.

From this recipe one can deduce that models of castles were made, that 
trees, furniture, figures were cast or made in some fashion, and that 
gilding the figures was done.  There isn't any mention here of coloring 
the figures as there is in _Curye on Inglysch_.

Alys Katharine


Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 17:52:41 -0500 (CDT)
From: alysk at ix.netcom.com (Elise Fleming )
Subject: SC - A Mixed Bag (So to Speak)

Our upcoming Middle Kingdom Coronation will be ably cooked by Master 
Basilicus who is attempting a period Italian feast, including as much 
period-style decorating of the room as possible.  I am contributing 
plates made of sugar (20, if they all dry) based on period Italian 
ceramic plates with a central portrait and an outer section of various 
designs.  I found a nice book on ceramics with photographs of period 
pieces, so I have copied the motifs and used colors from some of the 
color photos.  Then I became carried away and added gold.  The plates 
will be sprayed with acrylic laquer to protect them from moisture and 
to allow them to be taken home as souvenirs.  Unfortunately, the last 
seven are reluctant to dry since we've been having several days of high 
humidity (and I'm too cheap to turn on the furnace so early in the 
"fall").

Alys Katharine


Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 00:13:48 -0400
From: Ceridwen <ceridwen at commnections.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Sugar plate and moulds

> Ok, this is a question for everyone out there about sugar PLATE (not
> PASTE) and similar things
> My question is this -- does anyone have any idea what they would
> have used for moulds?  My husband's suggestion is to carve the item
> out of soapstone, then pour a metal mould, but this is a VERY
> non-trivial task.  If this is "THE way it was done" I am willing to
> go to the effort (the joy of marrying a carver!), but I'd rather have
> an intelligent clue first.  If anyone can even point me in the right
> direction I'd appreciate it.

Claricia,    Hope this helps, although it is later in period than  your
source. In Delights for Ladies, (1609) Sir Hugh Plat mentions molds of
carved wood, stone or plaster (molded from life) for "printing" of
various stuffs, marchpane paste, sugar paste (made with isinglass or gum
tragacanth. He instructs one to oil wooden molds with sweet almond oil,
and those of stone or plaster with barrows grease.
    I have, I believe the recipe you are working from..."to make sugar
plate" and "to make ymages in sugar" (curye V, 13 & 15 ). However, it is
a photocopy froma class handout, without dates for each source. What is
the date of these recipes, if you have it?

Ceridwen

> Claricia Nyetgale
>  so many projects, so little time
> <Erin.Kenny at sofkin.ca>


Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 06:41:59 -0500
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Sugar plate and moulds

> From: Erin Kenny <Erin.Kenny at sofkin.ca>

> My question is this -- does anyone have any idea what they would
> have used for moulds?  My husband's suggestion is to carve the item
> out of soapstone, then pour a metal mould, but this is a VERY
> non-trivial task.  If this is "THE way it was done" I am willing to
> go to the effort (the joy of marrying a carver!), but I'd rather have
> an intelligent clue first.  If anyone can even point me in the right
> direction I'd appreciate it.

I _believe_ (bearing in mind I haven't yet had my dish of tay) that a
sugar plate recipe occurs in Sir Hugh Plat's Delightes for Ladies, and
he suggests making molds from some prepared calcium salt that is
essentially commercial Plaster of Paris. Of course, the sugar plate in
his recipe is uncooked, and so involves less heat than the kind of sugar
work we're doing. But it might be worth trying, if it was sufficiently
dry and oiled.

Adamantius


Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 18:55:17 -0500 (CDT)
From: alysk at ix.netcom.com (Elise Fleming)
Subject: SC - Re: Sugar Plate and Moulds

Greetings!  A number of the moulds for sugar work were wooden. If using
melted sugar they would be soaked to prevent sticking.  Directions vary
on how long they should be soaked in cold water - from two hours (I
think) up to a day.  A number of the moulds were in two or three parts,
tied with string once the melted sugar was added and twirled in the
hands to coat the inside of the mould, leaving the center hollow.  The
making of "sugar plate" in Forme of Curye would seem to imply that the
melted sugar was poured out, possibly within a tin/metal form to make
it form a (square?) plate.  As mentioned, molds  could also be made of
plaster.  I keep looking for the reference that instructs the cook to
press down the lemon/fruit into wet sand, pour in the plaster, and thus
make the mold to cast the sugar in.  I've read it, but I can't find it!

Sugar paste could be "printed" in molds, possibly wood or plaster.  One
could also cut shapes out of sugar paste by using a knife or a tin
cutter, which I assume to be like the small tin cookie cutters one can
currently buy in cake decorating supply shops.

The Manuscrito Anonimo mentions making a castle of sugar as well as all
its furnishings.  I assume a mold would need to be made.  Carving a
wooden mold would seem to be easier than soapstone, would it not??

Alys Katharine


Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 10:08:53 +0000
From: Erin Kenny <Erin.Kenny at sofkin.ca>
Subject: SC - Ymages in suger (with original recipe)

>From Curye on Inglische, Part V:  Goud Kokery.
Recipe #15:  Ymages in suger  MS Source: Harl. 2378

To make ymages in suger.  And if 3e will make any ymages or any o[th]er
[th]ing in suger [th]at is casten in moldys, sethe [th]em in [th]e same manere
[th]at [th]e plate is, and poure it into [th]e moldes in [th]e same
manere [th]at [th]e plate is pouryde, but loketh 3oure mold be
anoyntyd before wyth a litell oyle of almaundes.  Whan [th]ei are
oute of [th] moylde 3e mow gylde [th]em or colour [th]em as 3e will.
3if 3e will gilde [th]em or siluer [th]em, noynte [th]em wyth gleyre
of an egge and gilde [th]em or siluer [th]em, and if 3e will make
[th]em rede take a litell gum araby, and [th]an anoynt it all abowte
and make it rede.  And 3if 3e will make it grene, take ynde wawdeas
ii penywey3te, | ii penyweyte of saffron, [th]e water of [th]e gleyr
of ii egges, and stampe all wele togeder and anoynte it wyth all.
And if 3e will make it lightly grene, put more saffron [th]erto.  And
in [th]is maner mow 3e caste alle manere froytes also, and colour it
wyth [th]e same colour as diuerse as 3e will, and [th]er [th]at [th]e
blossom of [th]at per of apel schull stand put [th]erto a clowe &
[th]er [th]e stalke schall stand makes [th]at of kanell.

The [th] character is the funky character that looks sort of like a
wierd p.  The 3 looks a lot like a 3 in my book.

Thank you for all of your suggestions.  I think we are going to try
both wooden and plaster molds.  I guess the first thing I'll do is
try recipe 13 (To make sugar plate), because this recipe builds on
it. (It's going to take my hubby a little while to carve me a mold
anyhow.)

Claricia Nyetgale


Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 06:44:22 -0500 (CDT)
From: alysk at ix.netcom.com (Elise Fleming)
Subject: SC - Clarifying Sugar

Greetings.  Claricia wrote:
>Has anyone out there done sugar plate?  I don't mean the paste kind
>of stuff.  I can post the original if it would help, but I have no
>idea how to "clarify" sugar.

I will confess that I haven't myself boiled up a sugar syrup and poured
it out to try making plates.  It should be similar to making "stained
glass" for candy windows.  Regarding clarifying sugar, there are
"recipes" in late-period books that say to use the white of an egg.
However, my understanding is that _we_ modern folk don't need to
clarify sugar since the impurities that were in the period sugar are
not there in the modern sugar.  If I recall correctly, there are more
detailed instructions for clarifying sugar in turn-of-the-century
cookbooks.  If someone is wanting to try it, let me know and I will
look in a couple of the early 20th-c. cookbooks that I have.

Alys Katharine


Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 01:12:20 +0800
From: Margritte <margritt at mindspring.com>
Subject: SC - Sugar Questions

Below are two recipes I used as a basis for a sugar-paste confection
entered in a recent A&S competition. One of the judges made the comment
that "... powdered sugar is not period." My question is, if a late period
recipe calls for "refined sugar" ground in a mortar, why isn't powdered
sugar period? What should I have used instead? This same judge made a
comment on another entry of mine, saying "Brown sugar is not period- the
raw sugar would be great." I'd like opinions from the list.

- -Margritte

To make Paste of flowers of the colour of Marble, tasting of natural flowers.
Take every sort of pleasing Flowers, as Violets, Cowslips, Gilly-flowers,
Roses or Marigolds, and beat them in a Mortar, each flower by itself with
sugar, till the sugar become the colour of the flower, then put a little
Gum Dragon steept in water into it, and beat it to a perfect paste; and
when you have half a dozen colours, every flower will take of his nature,
then rowl the paste therein, and lay one piece upon another, in mingling
sort, so rowl your paste in small rowls, as big and as long as your finger,
then cut it off the bigness of a small Nut, overthwart, and so rowl them
thin, that you may see a knife through them, so dry them before the fire
till they be dry.
A Queen's Delight or The Art of Preserving, Conserving and Candying,
printed for Nathaniel Brook, 1654.

To make Paste Royall-white.
Take a pound of refined sugar beaten and searced and put into an Alabaster
Mortar, with an ounce of Gum dragagant, steeped in Rose water: and if you
see your Paste be too weake, put in more sugar; if too dry, more Gumme,
with a drop or two of oyle of Cinnamon, so that you never deceive your
self, to stand upon quantities: beat it into perfect paste, and then you
may print it with your molds: and when it is dry, gild it, and so keep them.
A Closet for Ladies and Gentlewomen or The Art of preserving, conserving
and candying, printed for Arthur Johnson, 1608.


Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 23:29:16 +0800
From: Margritte <margritt at mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Competitions?

>>3. I can "specialize" to some extent. Right now, I'm on a candy-making
>>kick. It's kinda hard to turn that into a complete feast.
>
>   Course you can.  Advertise it as a medieval candy-fest and I can
>guartunee that there would be a few bookings.  It might not have the
>attendance of Pensic, but it would be - interesting- to see.
>-Sianan
>
>Marina Denton
>sianan at geocities.com

Well, let's see here... Looking through some of my recipes I find:

To make Collops like Bacon of Marchpane.
Take some of your Marchpane Paste, and work it in red Saunders till it be
red, then rowl a broad sheet of white Paste, and a sheet of red Paste,
three of the white, and four of the red, and so one upon another in mingled
sorts, every red between, then cut them overthwart, till it look like
Collops of Bacon, then dry it.
A Queen's Delight or The Art of Preserving, Conserving and Candying,
printed for Nathaniel Brook, 1654.

and...

A most delicate & stiffe sugar paste whereof to cast Rabbets, Pigeons, or
any other little birde or beast, either from the life or carued molds.
First dissolue Isinglasse in faire water or with some Rosewater in the
latter ende, then beate blanched almonds as you woulde for marchpane
stuffe, and drawe the same with creame, and Rosewater (milke will serue,
but creame is more delicate) then put therein some powderéd sugar, into
which you may dissolue your Isinglasse beeing first made into gellie, in
faire warme water (note, the more Isinnglasse you put therein, the stiffer
your worke will prooue) the hauing your rabbets, woodcocke, &c. molded
either i plaister from life, or else carued in wood (first annointing your
wooden moldes with oyle of sweete almonds, and your plaister or stone
moldes with barrowes grease) poure your sugar-paste thereon. A quarte of
creame, a quarterne of almonds, 2. ounces of Isinglasse, and 4 or 6. ounces
of sugar, is a reasonable good proportion for this stuffe. You may dredge
ouer your foule with crums of bread, cinnamon and sugar boiled together,
and so they will seeme as if they were rosted and breaded, Leach & gelly
may be cast in this manner. This paste you may also driue with a fine
rowling pin, as smooth & as thin as you please; it lasteth not long, &
therefore it must be eaten within a fewe daies after the making thereof. By
this meanes a banquet may bee presented in the forme of a supper, being a
verie rare and strange deuise.
Delightes for Ladies, by Sir Hugh Plat, 1609.

I'm sure there are others as well, so maybe a "complete" feast _could_ be
made out of candies. But I won't be the one to try it  :-)

BTW- if any of the characters come out looking strange on your screen, they
are probably long esses.

Enjoy!

- -Margritte


Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 07:50:05 -0500 (CDT)
From: alysk at ix.netcom.com (Elise Fleming)
Subject: SC - Re: Sugar

Adamantius wrote:

>Oh, another little snippet. Some sugar paste recipes call for the
>paste to be kneaded and rolled out with some rice flour to keep it
>from sticking to the marble, don't they? I have no idea about
>comparative percentages, but the final product would contains some
>starch, just as it would if using modern confectioners' sugar.

Off the top of my head, I can't recall any of the _period_ ones that
say that.  It might be that a) it was assumed you'd do so to prevent
sticking; b) no one thought of it and didn't do so because they made
the paste relatively non-sticky; c) this was a later addition OOP; d)
they used more powdered sugar (see below) e) Alys can't remember well.

Now, I _should_ hop up from the computer and flip through some of my
books but... I'm in the middle of double-checking the Pennsic schedule,
so I will postpone it.  Rice flour would be a logical addition but what
_I_ do is sprinkle additional powdered sugar on the board when it gets
sticky.  Without looking at my cookery books, I would hazard that this
might have been done during period rather than using rice flour.  In
fact, I seem to recall (now that the brain cells are activating) that
someone mentioned _not_ to use starch because that ruined it.  Which,
then, would imply that some people _did_ use starch.  I gotta go look
this stuff up!

Alys Katharine


Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 13:52:03 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Re: Sugar

Elise Fleming wrote:
>
> Adamantius wrote:
>
> >Oh, another little snippet. Some sugar paste recipes call for the
> >paste to be kneaded and rolled out with some rice flour to keep it
> >from sticking to the marble, don't they? I have no idea about
> >comparative percentages, but the final product would contains some
> >starch, just as it would if using modern confectioners' sugar.
>
> Off the top of my head, I can't recall any of the _period_ ones that
> say that.  It might be that a) it was assumed you'd do so to prevent
> sticking; b) no one thought of it and didn't do so because they made
> the paste relatively non-sticky; c) this was a later addition OOP; d)
> they used more powdered sugar (see below) e) Alys can't remember well.

One example I have on hand is Harl. 2378 (see Goud Kokery, all you
manuscriptally challenged), which has  a _cooked_ sugar plate recipe,
calling for a dusting of rice flour from a bag like the rosin bag used
by a baseball pitcher. Used the same way, like a powder puff, shooting
out a fine spray of flour on impact. It may or may not have been used in
the later, uncooked versions, but it wouldn't be unreasonable if it
were. Of course, not being shocked if something occurred is not the same
as saying it occurred, but it's s start.

> Rice flour would be a logical addition but what
> _I_ do is sprinkle additional powdered sugar on the board when it gets
> sticky.

Even granulated sugar is used this way by modern confectioners,
especially for puff pastry. How old the technique is, I couldn't say.
Just about anything that will coat the surface of the putatively sticky
stuff without itself becoming sticky ought to work. I've done this with
sugar, grated cheese, cocoa, paprika, salt, etc. Ultrafine sugar,
unmixed with starch, doesn't seem to work as well, though, so it is an
interesting question as to whether the technique of using modern,
adulterated confectioners' sugar is derived from using starch or sugar.
I did find it interesting to see that it was rice flour, but not
amydoun, a more easily available starch, being used. Possibly a more
neutral flavor?

> Without looking at my cookery books, I would hazard that this
> might have been done during period rather than using rice flour.  In
> fact, I seem to recall (now that the brain cells are activating) that
> someone mentioned _not_ to use starch because that ruined it.  Which,
> then, would imply that some people _did_ use starch.  I gotta go look
> this stuff up!

Ye Olde Exceptionne Thatte Proveth Ye Rule...;  )

Adamantius


Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 19:19:41 -0500 (CDT)
From: alysk at ix.netcom.com (Elise Fleming)
Subject: SC - Re: OOP?  Candy Bubbles

Greetings!  The original poster included a line from the "expert" to
the effect of "Don't try this at home".  I suspect it was because the
process is a bit more complicated than it seems, plus the possible
danger of working with melted sugar.  I found, purely by accident at a
Borders outlet store, _Sugar Work_ (Blown- and Pulled-Sugar Techniques)
by Peter Boyle.  He shows the equipment needed and the processes used
for making a variety of things from blown (and pulled) sugar, including
stemmed glassware, fruits, large and small vases, etc.  The book is
fascinating and gives one a bit of respect for such fanciful work.

As to "period"?  I _think_ there is evidence for pulled sugar, at
least, in late period (Italy).  Don't know if blown sugar might have
been done.  The molten sugar syrup was known (Curye on Inglysch, plus
the 13th c. Anonymous Andalusian cookbook), and glass blowers existed.
Did they put the two together?  One would have to do a bit more delving
into the descriptions of feasts and banquets in Italy.

Alys Katharine


Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 10:21:16 +1000 (EST)
From: The Cheshire Cat <sianan at geocities.com>
Subject: Re: SC - OOP(?)Candy Bubbles

 I don't remember anything about glycerin involved, and, other than the
>dangers involved in dealing with hot sugar syrups, it didn't appear all that
>difficult. Could be fun to try! At a guess, a couple of feet of brass tubing
>would probably work fairly well..........
>
>            Ldy Diana

  The glycerine supposedly gives the mixture a small amount of elacticity
(I think that's how you spell it).  It's also used in cake decorating in
Royal icing to help it keep it's shape better.  I think that adding it to
the sugar would make the sugar easier to 'blow'.
  As for the technique, I had the opportunity to do it once.  I wasn't very
good at it. It's a lot like blowing glass.  I've seen a glassblower make a
wren out of melted sugar.  It looked so pretty.  It's fun, but beware of
the hot sugar. I had blisters galore after this small experiment.  Also,
Sugar cools a lot quicker than what glass does, so you have to work very
quickly.  If you don't, the sugar will set and of you work too quickly, the
blown figure will explode showering a quite amazing distance with shards of
sugar of varying temperatures.

Just and educated guess about the glycerine and what I've seen of this
technique.  As I said I've only done it one, and badly, so I'm in no way
and expert.  I get better techniques with royal icing.

- -Sianan
**************************************************************************
Marina Denton
sianan at geocities.com


Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 22:12:44 -0400
From: Phil & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - OOP(?)Candy Bubbles

The approved material for the tube is either pyrex or wood, based on what I've
seen, and they are available at better restaurant supply houses. I suspect the
metal tube motif was introduced as something that would be easily available,
if not exactly ideal for the job. The pyrex or glass ones are really
odd-looking, with various bulges and constrictions... like you should be
playing music on them.

Adamantius


Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 22:06:36 -0400
From: "Alma Johnson" <chickengoddess at mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Candy Bubbles - rambling

OK, the article, which appears in the wedding issue of MSL, cake section,
shows a hand pump(rather pipette like) and refers to the hand pumping of air
into the sugar mass in order to form the bubble.  No lips seem to be
involved, but that wasn't a foolish concern, Brenna.  It mentions glycerine
as an ingredient and says nothing about why, although the elasticity thing
is pretty much what I figured would be the reason for its addition.  The
article definitely mentions the use of a torch, although where in the
process is not mentioned.  Mistress Aethelwyn, our resident candy maker and
myself decided to approach Mistress Christiana in hopes of enlightenment
because she is a clasically trained chef.  She figured that the torch would
be used to maintain the sugar mass at a working (elastic) temperature, as
"blowing" would cool it down and harden it.  Many thanks to Alys Katherine
for mentioning her find - I've already got Borders online doing an out of
print search for it.  Any other info, leads, etc. are most welcome.  We will
also be trying to document the technique, but I'm afraid that the concept of
glass blowing meets confectionary probably won't hold.  I am a glazier, and
at least at my end of things, there's no crossover from windows to cooking,
at least not directly.

Thanks for all the input on this topic so far, and thanks to Mistress
Christiana for wasting no time getting this out to the list. Gosh, I don't
suppose I could use a jewelers torch on sugar, whaddaya think Cariadoc?

Rhiannon Cathaoir-mor
on way too much benadryl thanks to thousand year old eggs


Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 09:19:25 -0400
From: Phil & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Candy Bubbles - rambling

DianaFiona at aol.com wrote:
> chickengoddess at mindspring.com writes:
> << Gosh, I don't
>  suppose I could use a jewelers torch on sugar, whaddaya think Cariadoc?
>
>    Why not? It's fairly common practice to use a small torch in professional
> kitchens to carmelize the sugar on creme brulee--I've even done it myself. And
> I'd think that a stationary torch, such as the one you use for lampworking,
> would be ideal. I'd want to have both hands free to use on the blowpipe,
> myself...... ;-)

One thing to be careful of, though, is that a torch produces a somewhat
pressurized flame, and while it's pretty easy to compensate for that, I
believe the most common tool I've seen used for the job is an alcohol lamp.
There's a little ni-chrome wire gadget, like the inside of your toaster, they
use for cutting the pieces.

Adamantius


Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 00:13:03 -0500
From: allilyn at juno.com (LYN M PARKINSON)
Subject: Re: SC - OOP(?)Candy Bubbles

>>Of course, as Adamatius and others mentioned, another material would be
better, but for an easy-to-find material to experiment with, a metal pipe
should do.<<

One of my Dad's antique purchases in Japan or Korea was a brass pipe.  It
had a fairly short stem, and the mouthpiece was cork, fitted over the
brass end.  Could you hollow out a wine cork, slip it over your candy
tube, and be safer in the kitchen?

Allison


Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 16:09:43 -0500 (CDT)
From: alysk at ix.netcom.com (Elise Fleming)
Subject: SC - Re: Elizabethan Buffet

Sir Gunthar wrote:
>I'm doing a buffet for a friend who is sitting vigil for his Laurel.
>Since he is VERY Elizabethan I decided to try to make his buffet as
>much in keeping with his personna as possible.

Don't know why I didn't think of this earlier... A sugar paste plate
decorated with his arms and a laurel wreath with perhaps his name and
date of elevation around the rim.  Other Elizabethan designs, motifs,
can be painted on.  The effect is to make something like one of the
decorated dessert plates that are illustrated on the front of
"Banquetting Stuffe".  These were used at the Elizabethan "banquets"
(dessert courses) and frequently had a poem or song on the back side
that the recipient had to sing/recite, etc.  For a keepsake, spray it
with acrylic laquer or varnish.  How far into the future is this
vigiling?  Is it at least a month away?  Could you e-mail me privately,
O Glorious Baron-ic Knight??

Alys Katharine


Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 08:14:29 -0500 (CDT)
From: alysk at ix.netcom.com (Elise Fleming)
Subject: SC - Re:Elizabethan Buffet:  Sugar Paste Roundels

Gunther and I wrote:
>> Could you e-mail me privately, O Glorious Baron-ic Knight??

>I could email this privately but I'm sure you'll get a lot of "Hey! No
>fair! You told HIM how to do it!" messages and I wouldn't want to do
>that to you.

Well... Actually, if the vigil had been, say, two-three weeks from now
I was going to volunteer to make one for you if you'd send me his arms.
:-)  The plates ship okay... I sent 12 out to the SCA 25th Anniversary
a few years ago and they arrived okay.  For hints and some
instructions, check out my letters to Stefan which he has posted in his
Florilegium.  If it is next week, you should make the plate _now_, if
you want to do one.  It will take 3-4 days (or more) to dry, depending
on how thick or thinly you roll the paste.  I just found a reference to
square plates (round) approx. 12-14 cm.  I usually make my square
plates 5" but it wouldn't be too difficult to make something larger, if
desired.

The painting can be done with regular illuminator's colors, or cake
decorating paste colors with a dab of water.  If you make the plate,
and your Lady wants to use paste colors, check the Florilegium or post
me and I'll give some hints.

Anyone else want to dabble with sugar paste??  We need more in the
world!

Alys Katharine


Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 21:39:12 -0400
From: Phil & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: SC - Ave Maria runtime and sugar - long

Cindy Renfrow wrote:
> 13 To make suger plate. Take a lb. of fayr clarefyde suger and put it in a
> panne and sette it on a furneys, & gar it sethe. And asay [th]i suger
> betwene [th]i fingers and [th]i thombe, and if it parte fro [th]i finger
> and [th]i thombe [th]an it is inow sothen, if it be potte suger. And if it
> be finer suger, it will haue a litell lower decoccioun. And sete it [th]an
> fro the fyr on a stole, & [th]an stere it euermore with a spature till it
> tourne owte of hys browne colour into a [3]elow colour, and [th]an sette it
> on [th]e fyre ageyn [th]e mountynance of a Aue Maria, whill euermore
> steryng wyth [th]e spatur, and sette it of ageyne, but lat it noght wax
> ouer styfe for cause of powrynge. And loke [th]ou haue redy beforne a fair
> litel marbill stone and a litell flour of ryse in a bagge, shakyn ouer
> [th]e marbill stone till it be ouerhilled, and [th]an powre [th]i suger
> [th]ereon as [th]in as it may be renne, for [th]e [th]inner [th]e platen
> [th]e fairer it is. If [th]ou willt, put [th]erin any diuerse flours,
> [th]at is to say roses leues, violet leues, gilofre leues, or any o[th]er
> flour leues, kut [th]em small and put [th]em in whan [th]e suger comes
> first fro [th]e fyre. And if [th]ou wilt mak fyne suger plate, put [th]erto
> att [th]e first sethying ii unces of rose water, and if [3]e will make rede
> plate, put [th]erto I unce of fyne tournesole clene waschen at [th]e fyrst
> sethying."

I think I see what's happening here. We are treating this recipe like a modern
candy recipe, most of which tend to involve making a syrup of sugar and water,
and cooking it to a certain stage/temperature. I don't believe that's what's
happening here. I ran across this same problem when experimenting with anise
in confit, from, incidentally, the same manuscript source as this appears to
come from.

What this recipe tells us to do is not to make a syrup, which might well take
20-30 minutes or more to cook to the hard crack stage, or whatever the
original cook/author has in mind. It tells us to melt the sugar, which could
admittedly take a long time over very low heat if we want to avoid burning or
even excessive caramelization. I gather pot sugar has more water and
impurities in it than finer grades, which might mean fine sugar needs to be
cooked a little less, hence the reference to the lower decoction.

We are then to remove the candy pot from the fire, allowing it to cool a bit,
stirring it, probably, so a) it cools evenly, b) so air bubbles can get in it
and make it a bit on the opaque side, and c) so tiny crystals will form in it,
finishing the job of making the syrup an opaque yellow goo instead of a clear
colorless or amber syrup.

By this time we have a pretty stiff, taffy-like goo. Not something we can
easily pour into molds or on a slab. What do we do? We put it back on the
fire. If the rather similar instructions in the confit recipe are anything to
go on (they also fail to mention adding any water, and apparently call for a
rather brief cooking time), we only need to heat our goo until it is
semi-runny again. As in, maybe half a minute or less. We stir it constantly to
detach solid bits from the pan and keep it from burning.

This brings us back to the Ave Maria, which takes, coincidentally, half a
minute or less to recite. (I've been unable to find a Catholic, including a
local parish priest, aware of a Marian ritual or anything else that might
require 25 or 30 minutes to run through.)

By this time the syrup, which is still quite hot after all, if not at its
original 225 degrees or above, Fahrenheit, will most likely be pourable.

Now, this recipe does mention the addition of some water, but it is an
optional step, and what it would affect is the time for cooking our goo in the
initial stages, which is determined, more or less, by the test of whether it
will spin a cleanly snapping thread from the fingers. This test is something
I've seen before in candy recipes. (BTW: you are supposed to dampen your
fingers before doing this, unless you want a serious burn!) By the time we get
to our Ave Maria stage, our cooked sugar mass is pretty close to being
anhydrous, so I can't imagine why cooking it for 30 minutes more would have
any desired effect.

Adamantius


Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:41:50 -0600 (CST)
From: alysk at ix.netcom.com (Elise Fleming)
Subject: SC - Re: Recipe from Murrell

Lucretzia wrote:
>By Gum-dragon I would say they mean Dragonsblood, which is  today and
>has been since ancient times, an East Indian shrub known as Dracoena
>draco, and the pigment is the dried resin sap of the plant.

I disagree.  Gum-dragon is gum tragacanth in modern life, and is used
in sugar paste recipes as part of the ingredients.  It is identified as
"a gum obtained from various Asian or Easst European leguminous plants
(genus Astragalus, esp. A. gummifer) that swells in water and is used
in the arts and in pharmacy."  It is not a pigment and has no coloring
of its own.  In modern gum paste, substitutions for gum tragacanth are
used such as gum karaya, which is cheaper, but has a slight pinkish
cast.

Alys Katharine


Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 12:35:10 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Sugar Plate sculptures

"Amanda B. Humphrey" wrote:
> I am entering sugar plate sculpture as well and
> am working with it as I type.  Does anyone have any suggestions on how to
> mold the sugar without it sticking to my hands?  I am using the cold mix
> recipe from the Good Hus-Wives Jewell and molding it has become a thorn in
> my side for which I can find no relief.  I am simply trying to create a
> setting for a table:  A large plate, a small plate, a bowl, a finger bowl,
> and a goblet.

Period solutions to this problem (which can be avoided to a great extent
by having just the right amount of sugar and other ingredients to water)
include light dustings of rice flour (just as you might now use flour or
starch in pastry work) or a light coat of almond oil on hands and work
surfaces. The latter would be simply oil pressed from almonds, not an
essential flavoring oil.

Some recipes recommend using a muslin bag, such as baseball pitchers use
for rosin, to apply the rice flour. You just tap it on your work surface
and it leaves a light, even coating.

Adamantius


Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 20:18:03 -0400
From: Diana Haven <tantra at optonline.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Sugar Plate sculptures

"Amanda B. Humphrey" wrote:
>   I am entering sugar plate sculpture as well and
> am working with it as I type.  Does anyone have any suggestions on how to
> mold the sugar without it sticking to my hands?  I am using the cold mix
> recipe from the Good Hus-Wives Jewell and molding it has become a thorn in
> my side for which I can find no relief.  I am simply trying to create a
> setting for a table:  A large plate, a small plate, a bowl, a finger bowl,
> and a goblet.

I have found that if I keep a small bowl of cold water and ice near at hand, it
works well.  After each 'moulding' move, I dip a few fingers into the frigid
water and wet my hands.  This has worked well even making pignoli cookies.

Diana


Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 11:06:24 -0500 (CDT)
From: alysk at ix.netcom.com (Elise Fleming)
Subject: SC - Re: Sugar Plate Sculptures

Greetings! Amanda wrote:
>I have yet another question.  I am entering sugar plate sculpture as
>well and am working with it as I type.  Does anyone have any
>suggestions on how to mold the sugar without it sticking to my hands?
>I am using the cold mix recipe from the Good Hus-Wives Jewell and
>molding it has become a thorn in my side for which I can find no
>relief.  I am simply trying to create a setting for a table:  A large
>plate, a small plate, a bowl, a finger bowl, and a goblet.

First, try looking in Stefan's Florilegium.  He posted a number of my
pieces of correspondence with him on how to work with sugar paste.
Second, your paste must be too wet if it is sticking to your hands.

Questions:  Did you find gum tragacanth which the recipe calls for?
Gum arabic is not a substitute.  Can you roll out the paste without it
sticking to your surface and rolling pin?  If not, it's too wet and
needs more sugar.

Comments:  I've made the items above and some of them were the very
dickens to work with.  I found that if I used waxed paper to line the
"mold", I could then remove the paste with little problem.  Hint:  For
round items, like a bowl or plate, you will need to cut diagonal lines
in towards the center so the paper folds into a round shape rather than
wrinkling into one.  This is also how I moulded the goblet "bowl".  For
the stem, I used a dowel rod as an armature and wrapped the paste
around it.  When the cup part and stem part were dry, I attached them
using egg white and  more sugar paste.  I covered the join with a snake
of paste, poked a pretty design into it, and then let that dry.

More comments:  You may need to experiment to find the ideal thickness
(thinness) of the paste.  One of my apprentices made a paper-thin bowl
which I was to take and show off.  Unfortunately, being so thin, it
easily absorbed moisture from the air and began to sag after a number
of days, losing its bowl shape.  However, if the paste is too thick it
will look clumsy.

For a plate:  I rolled out the paste to the desired thinness and laid a
template on top.  Then I cut around the template.  Be careful... A
sawing motion will stretch the paste and make the end result lopsided.
I laid the paste onto the waxed paper on my plate-mold and fiddled with
the edges to give the shape I wanted.  You will find that cutting the
paste will probably result in some roughness on the edge.  You will
need to decide how you want to cover up (or smooth out) that roughness.
After the paste has begun to dry well enough, and will keep its shape,
I remove it and let it finish airdrying.  After a day or two, I take
off the waxed paper, turn it upside down, and let that part finish
drying.  Problems:  If the plate or bowl is fairly curvy, you will need
to be sure that the weight of the paste doesn't slowly flatten it out
as it finishes drying.  Laying it upside down over another bowl can
help.

Does this give you any ideas?  Again, if it's sticking to you, it's too
wet.

Alys Katharine


Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 18:07:13 +0100
From: Christina Nevin <cnevin at caci.co.uk>
Subject: SC - Re: Sugar Plate Sculptures

Lady Bebhinn said:
>Thank you very much.  It was indeed too wet.  and I made another error
>(Please don't laugh) I was using regular granular sugar.  I didn't realize
>that it was powdered until I had already made quite a mess.

>Thank you for the other suggestions.  They are a great deal of help for a
>project that I will NEVER attempt again!  :>

Oh no, don't be discouraged! I made exactly the same mistake the first time
I tried sugar plate - and I must admit to having been greatly disappointed
when the next batch came out like fine porcelain rather than clear glass
(no, science is not my strong point!). It's one of those things that just
'click' and you think "why was I fretting, it's not so bad after all."
Honestly, it gets easier, and there are just so many things you can do with
it. I'm currently constructing sugar paste crowns for a presentation at
Drachenwald's Coronation in June. I made them in three pieces, and am going
to paint them with saffron and attach glace fruits etc to them. The centres
will be filled with sugar paste dragon's teeth, gingerbrede and biscuit fir
trees, laurel leaves and dragons scales (for the Drachenwald device) and
oakleaves (for TRH Matthew and Anna Blackleaf's devices).

Lucretzia
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Lady Lucrezia-Isabella di Freccia   |  mka Tina Nevin
Thamesreach Shire, The Isles, Drachenwald | London, UK


Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 03:07:04 EDT
From: LordVoldai at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Re: sugar paste

you should be able to get gumtex (comercial name) from a michaels or MJ
designs or any other hobby store that carries cake decorating supplies.
wilton's has it in their stock of regular stuff at hobby stores. saves on
shipping costs and time.  ok ok ok so i'm jewish!!!

voldai


Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 14:07:45 -0500 (CDT)
From: alysk at ix.netcom.com (Elise Fleming)
Subject: SC - Re: Sugar Paste

Greetings!  Someone mentioned using gumtex for sugar paste and I wanted
to clarify matters for folk who haven't worked with the stuff.  Gumtex
is a brandname for the strengthening gum used in modern gum paste
(sugar paste).  It's the modern equivalent of gum tragacanth.  It is of
a slightly pinker cast than gum tragacanth, and is usually gum karaya.
It's much cheaper than tragacanth, but for taste, the period recipe
with tragacanth is nicer, and is also much whiter.  The packaged stuff
to which one just adds water for "instant" gum paste is not Gumtex.
Gumtex is one of several ingredients (powdered sugar, glucose, egg
white) that make up a modern gum paste mixture.  You buy the Gumtex and
the glucose separately and mix everything together.  Recipe is on the
Gumtex container.

The package I use (and seems to be the cheapest) is called "gum paste
mix" and is made by CK Productus, Fort Wayne, IN 46825.  The number on
the package is 77-201.  The ingredients are confectioners' sugar, egg
albumen, dry corn syrup solids, cornstarch, and vegetable gums.  There
is a recipe on the package (which I generally ignore since I make up
the whole package at one time).  My cake decorating store sells the one
pound package for $2.29.  Hope this clarifies!

Alys Katharine, home two hours on summer break and I've already taken a
one hour nap!


Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 17:44:14 -0500 (CDT)
From: alysk at ix.netcom.com (Elise Fleming)
Subject: SC - Re: Sugar Paste

Greetings.  A forwarded post from Jeannette read:

>So Christy, is this sugar paste something one uses to make sugar
>plates and bowls?  (snip)  Can they be painted and can they
>actually be eaten?  I still want to try the blown bubbles of sugar but
>I think that is a different compound .

One of the problems is that two different items were called sugar
plate, historically.  Sugar paste is modernly known as gum paste.  In
the Tudor/Elizabethan/Stuart cookery books it is also called sugar
plate (as well as several other names).  Form of Cury (from the 1400s)
has a recipe for sugar plate.  This was not the same as the sugar/gum
paste of the Elizabethan times.  The sugar plate was a melted sugar
syrup that was poured out to form a plate and then colored.  There is
at least one recipe in the 13th Century Anonymous Andalusian cookery
book in Cariadoc's collection that is also similar to the sugar plate
of Form of Cury.  The instructions (from my memory) are to pour the
boiled sugar syrup into molds so that one can form a castle and all its
furnishings.

This boiled sugar syrup continued to co-exist with what we know of as
sugar/gum paste.  There are Elizabethan recipes to make hollow fruits,
etc., with wooden or plaster molds and then colored.  Some of the
colors were painted on.  Some were incorporated into the original
mixture.

There are numerous books today on working with gum paste.  Books that
deal with pastillage or Mexican gum paste are similar.  I found a
delightful book entitled _Sugar Work_ (Blown- and Pulled-Sugar
Techniques), by Peter T. Boyle, Van Nostrand Reinhold, NY, 1992; ISBN
0-442-01350-7 for the paperback version.  It was also printed by
Chapman and Hall (London), Thomas Nelson Australia and Nelson Canada.
The "blown bubbles of sugar" that Jeannette refers to are probably this
stuff.  The cover of the book has two blue stem goblets that I thought
were glass for quite a while!

Jeannette queries about eating the stuff.  Sugar/gum paste can be eaten
but the modern product does not have quite as nice a flavor as the
period product made from rosewater and tragacanth.  Edibility is also
dependent on how thick the piece is and what coloring agents might have
been used on it.  Period sugar plate had some toxic colors used on it
which sometimes were recognized as toxic and sometimes not.   In
general, the colors used by the period (Elizabethan) limners were
painted onto the plates.

All types of items were made from the sugar paste.  These are some of
the items listed in period cookery books:  dishes, shoes, walnuts,
skulls and bones, trenchers, slippers, cinnamon sticks, capital
letters, snakes, keys, plates, clasps and eyes, snails, knives, wax
lights,frogs,gloves, cups, cowslips, roses, marbles, primroses,
cherries, knots, table furnishings, "burrage" flowers, strawberries,
"jumballs", pigeons, stock gilliflowers, marigolds, apples, rabbits,
any bird or beast.

Alys Katharine


Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 10:55:49 -0500 (CDT)
From: alysk at ix.netcom.com (Elise Fleming)
Subject: SC - Re:Sugar Paste

Lord Voldai asked if the Form of Cury stuff was "a hard crack clear
sugar candy".  I would guess that it was.  Here's the recipe from the
Andalusian cookery book ("Cast Figures of Sugar"):

"Throw on the sugar a like amount of water or rosewater and cook until
its consistency is good.  Empty it into the mould and make of it
whatever shape is in the mold, in the places of the "eyebrow" and the
"eye" and what resembles the dish you want, because it comes out of the
mould in the best way.  Then decorate it with gilding and whatever you
want of it.  If you want to make a tree or a figure of a castle, cut it
piece by piece.  Then decorate it section by section and stick it
together with mastic until you complete the figure you want, if God
wills."

I have modernized some of the spelling, but here is the recipe from
Curye on Inglysch:  #13, Goud Kokery, "To make sugar plate.  Take a lb,
of fayr clarefyde suger and put it in a panne and sette it on a furneys
& gar it sethe.  And asay thi suger between thi fyngers and thi thombe,
and if it parte from thi fynger and thi thombe than it is inow sothen,
if it be potte suger.  And if it be fyner suger, it will have a litell
lower decoccioun.  And sete it than fro the fyr on a stole, & than
stere it evermore with a spature till it tourne owte of hys browne
colour into a yelow colour, and than sette it on the fyre ageyn the
mountynance of a Ave Maria, whill evermore sterying wyth the spatur,
and sette it of ageyne, but lat it noght wax over styfe for cause of
powrynge.  And loke thou have redy beforne a fair litel marbill stone
and a litell flour of ryse in a bagge, shakying over the marbill stone
till it be overhilled, and than powre thi suger theron as thin as it
may renne, for the thinner the palten the fairer it is.  If thou willt,
put therin any diverse lfours, that is to say roses leves, iolet leves,
gilofre leves, or any other flour leves, kut them small and put them in
whan the suger comes first fro the fyre.  And if thou wilt make fyne
suger plate, put therto att the first sethying ii unces of rose water,
and if ye will make rede plate, put therto i unce of fyne tournesole
clene waschen at the fyrst sethyinge."

The hint as to the proper temperature of the sugar is to draw it
between the thumb and finger.  Since this is fairly long, I will send a
subsequent post with some information I've compiled on the different
stages/temperatures of sugar.

Alys Katharine


Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 13:41:52 -0500
From: Mike  Young <uther at lcc.net>
Subject: SC - strengthening sugar sculpture

I've been to the florigium and can't find the answer to this question so I
would appreciate any advice.  I have made(and broken)2 sugar trays(using
granulated sugar, water and egg whites).  How do I make them stonger?   I
need to be able to transport them to an event without breaking.
Thicker?(these have been about 1/8 to a 1/4 in. thick) Thinner? Different
recipe? Something I'm just not getting? I'm pretty desperate...I think I
have sugar in places it shouldn't be...<g>
gwyneth


Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 15:31:12 EDT
From: LordVoldai at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - strengthening sugar sculpture

From the recipies i have seen, you should use confectioners (i.e. powdered )
sugar for this application, it will dissolve better in the eggwhites and give
you a stronger bond.  Also try using some sort of gum resin to help
strengthen it.  period product was gum tragacanth but it is expensive now. I
use gum tex which you can obtain at any store selling cake decorating
supplies (michaels) or thru mail order from wiltons.

voldai


Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 20:08:52 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - strengthening sugar sculpture

Mike Young wrote:
> I've been to the florigium and can't find the answer to this question so I
> would appreciate any advice.  I have made(and broken)2 sugar trays(using
> granulated sugar, water and egg whites).  How do I make them stonger?   I
> need to be able to transport them to an event without breaking.
> Thicker?(these have been about 1/8 to a 1/4 in. thick) Thinner? Different
> recipe? Something I'm just not getting? I'm pretty desperate...I think I
> have sugar in places it shouldn't be...<g>

I haven't worked with the materials you mention, but I suspect you might
try a different recipe, only because  what seems to have been used most
often in period is either a cooked sugar syrup (essentially hard candy),
or, somewhat later, a paste made from either gum tragacanth or gum
benzoin. I know both of these items can be made reasonably strong and
will withstand at least some reasonable impact. Of course the materials
they are intended to imitate are themselves delicate, so period sugar
workers probably didn't expect _too_ much strength out of what they made.

I think the problem with using granulated sugar is that you might end up
with a sort of concretion of granules (possibly semi-melted) held
together with some of the paste you are trying to make, instead of a
smooth, homogeneos paste. At the very least you should probably try a
finer sugar, possibly confectioners' sugar, and I highly recommend
getting hold of some gum tragacanth or some other muculaginous binder to
use instead of egg white. Otherwise what you're getting is basically
Royal Icing, not sugar plate.

Adamantius


Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 20:27:32 -0500 (CDT)
From: alysk at ix.netcom.com (Elise Fleming)
Subject: SC - Re: Strengthening Sugar Sculptures

Voldai wrote:
>from the recipies i have seen, you should use confectioners (i.e.
>powdered ) sugar for this application, it will dissolve better in the
>eggwhites and give you a stronger bond.  also try using some sort of
>gum resin to help strengthen it.  period product was gum tragacanth
>but it is expensive now. i use gum tex which you can obtain at any
>store selling cake decorating supplies (michaels) or thru mail order
>from wiltons.

What he said!  You also might be aware of the texture of your paste.
When you knead it, you knead it until it can stretch between your
hands, rather like taffy.  If you try to stretch it and it snaps or
breaks off, you should knead it more.  And, the gum tragacanth or its
modern substitute (GumTex) is a must.

Alys Katharine


Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 08:14:40 -0500 (CDT)
From: alysk at ix.netcom.com (Elise Fleming)
Subject: SC - Icings and Pastes:  Was: Last Minute Details

Mirhaxa wrote:
>The royal icing I'm familiar with has the texture of frosting to start
>and dries rock hard.

That's what I was referring to in my description of how to test to see
if it is of the proper consistency.  However, your question caused me
to digress from my morning activities and here is the result...

Okay...So someone asked what the difference was between royal icing and
sugar plate.  I responded too quickly, using my quick-and-dirty version
of royal icing, which is just sugar and liquid, usually rosewater, and
no egg white. (Robert May uses only rosewater and sugar as does the
1656 _Book of Fruits and Flowers_.)  However, Murrell (1621), Digby
(1669) and many others do use egg white in their icing, although it
isn't called "royal icing."  If you are looking for it, look for
recipes for marchpanes.  What we call "royal icing" seems to have
appeared first as a coating for them to make them glisten like "ice",
hence (I assume) the name "icing".  I haven't seen any name for this
coating, so I assume the term "royal icing" is post-period.  Nowadays
(in the US) we use it as elements of cake decoration and only
occasionally as the complete covering of a cake, although I believe the
British (and Australians?) use it more frequently, especially on a cake
under-covered with marzipan.  (I recall the cake-cutting problems of
one of Lyndon Johnson's daughters when her wedding cake was covered
with the stuff and no one told them it would be nearly impossible to
cut through with their ceremonial sword.  Dates me, doesn't it!)

I mentioned the modern "drip" test to see if one's royal icing was at
the proper consistency:  a drop of the icing should be re-incorporated
into the mixture at about the count of 10.  One can pipe figures of
royal icing, but you can't knead the stuff or, to my knowledge, make
"prints" of it (using molds) as one can do for sugar/gum paste.

Period sugar/gum paste was made of sugar ground finely, gum tragacanth,
a liquid which was usually rosewater, and egg white.  Dawson (1597)
adds lemon juice.  It is my current belief that sugar paste/sugar plate
was also known as "paste royall", especially the white version.  W.I.
Gent (1653), _A True Gentlewoman's Delight_, has a recipe titled "To
make paste Royall white that you may make Court Bouls, or Caps, or
Gloves, Shooes, or any prettie thing Printed in Moulds."  It includes
sugar, gum tragacanth, rosewater, musk which is made into a paste,
rolled out with a "rouling pin" and printed "with your moulders".  Many
of the later 17th-century cookery books will have recipes for "paste
royall" but not for sugar paste or sugar plate.  This is why I think
looking at the ingredients and what is to be done with the item is more
important than the name of the thing.  And, why I think some of this
confusion/similarity has carried over into today's cake decorating
world.  Look at the following...

The Wilton cake decorating book gives as gum paste ingredients:
Gum-tex or tragacanth gum, glucose, water, sugar.  Mexican gum paste
(pastillage) contains similar ingredients.  One Wilton recipe adds
gelatin in place of glucose and has no gum tragacanth or Gum-tex.  All
of these get worked to a "very stiff dough".  (Royal icing is not made
that thick.  It is more liquid.)

Another modern sugarcraft book has these ingredients for "sugarpaste":
sugar, glucose, gelatin, glycerine, water.  Their recipe for "modelling
paste" is sugar, gum tragacanth, glucose, water.  They want the mixture
to be a "soft dough".  A British cake decorating book has for
"sugarpaste icing" egg white, glucose, sugar.  Their royal icing is egg
white, sugar, glycerine, lemon juice.  Still another one gives
ingredients for fondant icing: glucose, sugar, gelating, water, white
vegetable fat.  For royal icing they include egg white, sugar, lemon
juice or acetic acid.  Their "modelling paste" has two versions:  1)
"plastic icing" which includes sugar, glucose, water, gelatin, white
vegetable fat; then add gum tragacanth to make the modelling paste; 2)
white margerine or vegetable fat, sugar, gum tragacanth, gelatin, cold
water, boiling water, egg white.  Their pastillage is royal icing plus
gum traganth and more sugar.  Wilton's "rolled fondant" recipe includes
gelatin, water, glucose, glycerine, solid vegetable shortening, sugar.
There is also a cooked fondant version used pastries.  Confusing??

Now, after all this "mess", you can see that the ingredients are pretty
much the same, but the amounts would vary, depending on whether you
wanted a liquidy mix (royal icing) or a more solid dough (rolled
fondant, gum/sugar paste, pastillage).

It's sort of interesting to note that the first cake "icings" seem to
be the royal icing prototype put on marchpanes.  By Digby's time, at
least, this icing topping was put onto cakes.  From what I read of his
recipe "To make a cake", you kept beating the sugar, egg whites, and
rosewater for the entire time the cake is baking (2 hours) before you
remove the cake, spread the icing on top, and set it back again to
harden.  Other recipes don't suggest such a long beating time!


Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 14:17:06 +1100
From: Lorix <lorix at trump.net.au>
Subject: Re: SC - Violet Sugar Plate Was Saxon Violets

david friedman wrote:
> 'Lainie asked about violet recipes a while back. Here is what looks
> rather like a violet pudding?
>
> Vyolette
> Two Fifteenth Century Cookery Books p. 29

I have just found another recipe for violets for the use in making 'marbled'
sugar plate in a book that I have been devouring (well not literally ;-)
Sugar Plums & Sherbet - The Prehistory of Sweets, by Laura Mason
ISBN: 0907325 831

For those interested in the book, it would make a nice addition to the library.
Author goes thru the history of sweets & reprints 'period' recipes from various
sources & then offers a redaction for some of them.  It is extensively footnoted
& sources quoted.  It is also a good book for those learning how to make candy
has it gives lots of technique info.

I have given some extra info included in the book about the making & use of
sugar plate in general for those interested & have copied the period & redacted
recipe at the end.  I would note that the period recipe calls for a number of
different edible flowers.  However, given the profusion of colours in violets,
if all you needed was differing colours for the marbled effect, you could just
use violets ;-)

In her chapter on sugar paste she states that "One of the earliest known
detailed sugar paste recipes in English is for making:  "plate of sugar, whereof
a man maye make all manner of fruites, and other fyne things with theyr forme,
as platters, dishes, glasses, cuppes, and such thinges, wherewith you may
furnishe at table; and when you have doen, eate them up.  A pleasant thing for
them that sit at table." (William Warde, 1562, translator, 'The Secretes of the
Reverende Maister Alexis of Piedmont')
"This recipe, given in the translation of the alchemist Alexis of Piedmont in
1562, required 'gum dragant', a pice the size of a bean, steeped in rosewater, a
walnut shell full of lemon juice & some egg white mixed with sugar in a mortar,
which was kneaded with more powdered fine sugar to make a paste.  This was
rolled out & moulded into tableware"

Later, she goes on to say that "the basic recipe stayed essentially the
unchanged, but the details were refined.  Sir Hugh Plat, in his instructions for
"the making of Sugarplate, and casting thereof in carved moulds,' demanded the
whitest refined sugar and a small proportion of the best starch, mixed with gum
dragant.  This, he said, 'must first bee well picked, leaving out the drosse,'
before it was steeped in rosewater and strained through canvas.  All ingredients
were mixed up with some egg white and then rolled out and shaped into wooden
moulds dusted with powdered sugar.  For making 'sawcers, dishes, boawls, &c' the
sheet of paste were pressed into the required vessels, trimmed and allowed to
dry partially, then unmoulded and the edges gilded with gold leaf stuck down
with white of egg". (Platt 1609 p.25)

NOW FOR THE BIT OF INTEREST FOR LAINIE:
Sugar plate could be coloured and scented with flowers.  By using the results
judiciously, it could be made to resemble fine marble as in the following recipe
by 'W.M' (1655)  'A Queens Delight', Facsimile 1984, Prospect Books, London.

"To make paste of flowers the colour of marble, tasting of the natural flowers:
Take every sort of pleasing Flowers, as Violets, Cowslips, Gily-flowers, Roses,
or Marigolds, and beat them in a Mortar, each flower by itself with sugar, till
the sugar become the colour of the flower, then put in a little Gum Dragon
steept in water into it, and beat into a perfect paste; and when you have half a
dozen colours, every flower will take of his nature, then rowl the paste
therein, and lay one piece upon another, in mingling sort, so rowl your Paste in
small rowls, as big and as long as your finger, then cut it off the bigness of a
small Nut, overthwart, and so rowl them thin, that you may see a knife through
them, so dry them before the fire till they be dry".

Nb: the author alos adds that in respect to the making of sugar plate or paste no boiling of syrup is involved:  it is a simple mixture of powdered sugar kneaded with soaked gum arabic or gum tragacanth (often mispelt as dragant or corrupted to dragon)

Mason's Redaction of Sugar Plate:
- - 500g icing sugar
- - 15g powdered gum arabic or tragacanth
- - flavours & colours as desired
1.  Mix the icing sugar & gum together roughly & then seive into a large bowl so
that the two are well amalgamated.  Divide the dry mix into portions (keeping a
little back for working) depending on how many colours/flavours you want.

2.  Make each portion into a paste by adding a drop of colour & the desired
flavouring.  (To achieve the intended flavour or colour, you can experiment with
kneading the petals of edible flowers into the mixture, if the are available &
pesticide free, otherwise use rose water, flower water or oils from
lemon/orange/or lime peel.)  If you are using one of the flower waters, add this
in teaspoonfuls, mixing & kneading until you hve a pliable paste.  If using an
essence or oil, add a drop or two, and then make up the paste with tap water.

3.  Knead each portion until it is smooth and coherent, adding a little more
icing sugar/gum mixture or water as necessary to achieve a good consistency.
Wrap each batch in plastic film until you need it.

4.  Make up into little rolls, putting two or more flavours together in layers
as desired, and cut down into little nuggets.  Dust a board and rolling pin with
icing sugar, roll out the paste, cut into any shape desired & leave to dry.

Lorix


From: "Elise Fleming" <alysk at ix.netcom.com>
To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 08:50:00 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Early Pastries

I commented and Stefan quoted and wrote:
>Alys Katharine commented:
>>  The Manuscrito Anonimo from the 13th c. lists
>> a castle (and its furnishings) made of poured sugar.

>In the *13th* century? Just how big was this castle. And who was
>it made for (ie: who paid for it) and where was it made?
>My understanding is that sugar was pretty expensive in that time
>period. That must have been one real expensive trinket.

This is from Charles Perry's translation, and appears on p. A-71 of
Cariadoc's _Collection of Medieval and Renaissance Cookbooks_, Vol
II, Sixth Edition, 1993.  The cookery book is _An Anonymous
Andalusian Cookbook of the 13th Century_

"Cast Figures of Sugar"
"Throw on the sugar a like amount of water and rosewater and cook
until its consistencey is good.  Empty it into the mould and make of
it whatever shape is in the mold, the places of the 'eyebrow' and
the 'eye' and what resembles the dish you want, because it comes out
of the mould in the best way.  Then decorate it with gilding and
whatever you want of it.  If you want to make a tree or a figure of
a castle, cut it piece by piece.  Then decorate it section by
section and stick it together with mastic until you complete the
figure you want, if God wills."

As far as expense of sugar, yes, sugar could be expensive, but keep
in mind that Spain was occupied by the Moors, and it was in the
Arabic world that sugar refining began.  It might not have been the
expense that it would have been in France or England.  The shipping
would be "just" across the Mediterranean, not overland through
Europe. As to size... I may be old, but I'm not _quite_ that old to
have seen a construction in the 13th century.  I suspect it might
have varied in size, but if they are talking about rooms, and
furnishings, then it wouldn't have been tiny.

Alys Katharine

Perry noted that "eyebrow" and "eye" might be technical terms for
parts of the mould.


From: "Elise Fleming" <alysk at ix.netcom.com>
To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 11:59:07 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Gum Tragacanth Sources

Greetings. If my old memory works right, it seems there was a
discussion that gum tragacanth wasn't "findable" in the US anymore.
Master Aiden, from my local group, found two sources for me right
away and here they are for you.

http://www.bakingshop.com/sugarcraft/gum.htm
http://beryls.safeshopper.com/142/cat142.htm?772

He noted: "I've also discovered that it's also used for
leatherworking, incense, bookbinding, and making pastels,
curious..."

The "Beryl's" site has a pound of gum dragon for $30, plus shipping
and handling.  This corresponds well to the price some 10 years ago
of $30 which included $5 shipping/handling from Penn Herb, which
apparantly no longer carries gum tragacanth.  If you want to make
period sugarpaste, you need this stuff.  They also sell it in
smaller quantities.

Alys Katharine


Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 09:52:30 -0500
From: johnna holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re:Sotelties// Sugarpaste

Sugarpaste was Italian prior to its introduction
in England. The earliest printed source in English that I
have (and actually own in facsimile) is 1558.
 The earliest printed work that I have
reference to would be 1555 in Venice. It might be
earlier yet. Certainly it would be in the various
manuscripts or notebooks that made up the material
for the printed volume. I am still looking for additional
material before publishing something about this.

Johnnae llyn Lewis  Johnna Holloway


Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 21:51:25 -0500
From: johnna holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: Sugar Plate/Paste; Stained Glass Sugar

I think that Her Highness Alys Katharine would
agree that you ought to see about borrowing or
buying (after seeing it) a copy of Peter
Brears All the King's Cooks. The Tudor
Kitchens of King Henry VIII at Hampton Court
Palace. 1999. There is a paperback available.
It has recipes, sources, illustrations, and photos of
recreated sugar-plates based on wooden molds that
are colored. It's just great. Ivan Day's Eat, Drink
and Be Merry. The British at Table 1600-2000 is
another that has photos of sugarworks and
sweetmeats that have been recreated and photographed.

Johnnae llyn Lewis  Johnna Holloway


From: "Elise Fleming" <alysk at ix.netcom.com>
To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 05:20:25 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Sugar Paste

Isabelot wrote:
>I did successfully make some plates, bowls, and a platter. Still haven't
>succeeded with the goblets/glasses but plan to keep on trying.

I, too, found those to be the most difficult.  For me, I was more
successful when I molded on the _outside_ of a form rather than on
the inside.  And, I've used waxed paper to tape onto the object
first before I laid on the sugar paste to form it.  For one goblet,
I used a Dannon's yogurt container.  I laid on the waxed paper,
properly cut so there were minimal wrinkles.  Then I laid on a round
of sugar paste.  When I folded it down the sides there was,
obviously, a big pleat which I cut out with a sharp knife.  Then I
smoothed the edges together to hide the external join.

I used a dowel (actually, a wedding pillar) covered with sugar paste
to make the stem of the goblet which I attached after everything was
dried.  I rolled a small snake of paste to hide the join of the
goblet and the stem and put some decorative marks or jewels on it.
I made a separate base/foot into which I inserted the stem.  (Like a
true medieval recipe, I put the steps out of order.  Make goblet.
Make stem.  Let dry.  Make base and insert stem.  Let dry.  Affix
goblet.)

I'd love to hear how anyone else made goblets.  I saw two gorgeous
fluted ones made for the historical food display in England.  My
guess is that they were made in two halves of a mold.  However,
period sources seem to indicate putting the paste inside the cup and
I haven't had much success with that.  The paste sticks and I can't
get it out easily.

Alys Katharine


From: "Olwen the Odd" <olwentheodd at hotmail.com>
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: Sugar Paste
Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 19:56:45 +0000

>I'd love to hear how anyone else made goblets.  I saw two gorgeous
>fluted ones made for the historical food display in England.  My
>guess is that they were made in two halves of a mold.  However,
>period sources seem to indicate putting the paste inside the cup and
>I haven't had much success with that.  The paste sticks and I can't
>get it out easily.
>
>Alys Katharine

We dust the inside of the bowls and cups with cornflour.  Most of the time
they pop right out.  I like to cheat and use white chocolate to glue the
pieces together.  Anyway, it gives me a reason to blow through some of the
30 or so pounds I have of white chocolate.  The stick is a good idea that I
haven't tried.  I just make the stems out of sugarplate with the base as one
piece.  Ya know, I have used balloons as a mold for piped and dipped
chocolate cups.  I just rub a lite coat of butter on it then pop it to
remove.  May work with sugarplate as well.  Well, not the butter part.

Olwen


Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 15:18:00 -0400
From: johnna holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
To: "sca-cooks at ansteorra.org" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Recipe for Olwen and Countess Alys

I came across the following recipe in April, but I forgot to
post it to the list then. When reading it I was reminded that
Olwen was looking for recipes that combined sugarpaste
and marzipan. This one combines those ingredients and
produces something that can be shaped. The question
would be --can we find one that leaves out the baking?

To make several pretty fancies.

Take sweet Almonds blanched and beaten
with Rosewater; mix them with fine sugar,
the whites of Eggs, and Gum dragon
steeped in Rosewater, and so make them into
what shape you please, and bake them. page 94.

The Cook's Guide: or, Rare receipts for cookery by
Hannah Wolley or Woolley. 1664.
Wing number W3276

Johnnae llyn Lewis  Johnna Holloway


From: "Elise Fleming" <alysk at ix.netcom.com>
To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 07:50:23 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Miscellaneous Sugar Stuff

Greetings.  Comfits should keep quite well if put into (for example)
a Tupperware container.  Or, even better, into a Ziploc bag inside a
tightly sealed plastic container.  I've kept the dreaded moisture
away from sugar paste by having it in a plastic bag inside a large
plastic tote, and sugar paste is more hygroscopic (correct word??)
than comfits are.

Stefan's comment about drinking from a sugar paste goblet before it
disintegrates brings up an experiment on the dissolvablility of
sugar paste.  I dropped a piece of well-dried, broken sugar paste
(about 1/8 inch thick) into a glass of water.  Hours later it was
still there, inviolate.  I might hypothesize that if the sugar paste
were very thin and not terribly dry, it might dissolve with a hot
liquid, but cold liquids can probably be used with impunity.  If
it's dry enough to hold its shape, you could use it during a banquet
and not have to hasten your drinking.  Period sources warn to keep
hot things away from the sugar paste.

Alys Katharine 


Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:49:43 -0400
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Miscellaneous Sugar Stuff
From: Daniel Myers <doc at medievalcookery.com>
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

On Tuesday, June 17, 2003, at 08:50 AM, Elise Fleming wrote:
> Stefan's comment about drinking from a sugar paste goblet before it
> disintegrates brings up an experiment on the dissolvablility of
> sugar paste.  I dropped a piece of well-dried, broken sugar paste
> (about 1/8 inch thick) into a glass of water.  Hours later it was
> still there, inviolate.  I might hypothesize that if the sugar paste
> were very thin and not terribly dry, it might dissolve with a hot
> liquid, but cold liquids can probably be used with impunity.  If
> it's dry enough to hold its shape, you could use it during a banquet
> and not have to hasten your drinking.  Period sources warn to keep
> hot things away from the sugar paste.

I've tried making a sotelty consisting of sugar paste shells filled
with almond-milk based pudding.  While they looked great, the shells
went all soft and melty overnight and the result was inedibly messy.
The shells had been dry when they were filled, but the pudding was
still slightly warm.  I may try again later and see if cooling the
pudding in a mold ahead of time (and maybe cooking it longer) will help
things hold together longer.

I've put a picture (220kb) of a couple of them (just before completely
melting) online:
	http://www.medievalcookery.com/images/eggs.jpg

- Doc
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
   Edouard Halidai  (Daniel Myers)
   http://www.medievalcookery.com/
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-


From: "Olwen the Odd" <olwentheodd at hotmail.com>
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Miscellaneous Sugar Stuff
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 18:26:49 +0000

> I've tried making a sotelty consisting of sugar paste shells filled
> with almond-milk based pudding.  While they looked great, the shells
> went all soft and melty overnight and the result was inedibly messy.
> The shells had been dry when they were filled, but the pudding was
> still slightly warm.  I may try again later and see if cooling the
> pudding in a mold ahead of time (and maybe cooking it longer) will help
> things hold together longer.
>
> I've put a picture (220kb) of a couple of them (just before completely
> melting) online:
> 	http://www.medievalcookery.com/images/eggs.jpg
>
> - Doc

Doc, these are fabulous!!  Where on earth did you come up with the idea?
And recipes??  Reading your description is so much less exciting than seeing
the picture.  I would have never guessed they were eggs.  The yellow part is
the almond milk pudding part?  What is the clear part?  The thinness of the
shell may have come into play too.  And leaving it in that long. Overnight?
   Any recipe or discussion I have read about sugarplate allows that you can
put liquid or foodstuffs on/in it for fairly short lengths of time.  I have
had success at a dinner party with dessert bowls and plates and cordial
glasses.

Olwen


Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 15:34:38 -0400
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Miscellaneous Sugar Stuff
From: Daniel Myers <doc at medievalcookery.com>
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

On Tuesday, June 17, 2003, at 02:26 PM, Olwen the Odd wrote:
> Doc, these are fabulous!!  Where on earth did you come up with the idea?
> And recipes??  Reading your description is so much less exciting than seeing
> the picture.  I would have never guessed they were eggs.  The yellow part is
> the almond milk pudding part?  What is the clear part?  The thinness of the
> shell may have come into play too.  And leaving it in that long. Overnight?

The idea came from several places:  1. a reference I came across quite
a while back about mock eggs for lent made out of fish,  2. a sugar
paste workshop given by Mistress Rosamund,  and 3. testing out the
recipe for "Lenten Slices" [http://www.medievalcookery.com/recipes/lenten.html ].

To answer your (and Kerri's) question, both the "whites" and the
"yolks" are almond milk pudding (see the Lenten Slices recipe) - with
the yolks being colored with ground saffron.  I also sprinkled a pinch
of sandalwood over the top to look like paprika, but it doesn't show in
the picture.  I wanted the shells to be as close to real eggshells as
possible, hence the thinness.  I'll do some more experimenting with it
some time in the future and see what I can work out - it's just too
good a sotelty to let go.

- Doc
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
   Edouard Halidai  (Daniel Myers)
   http://www.medievalcookery.com/
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-


Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 14:40:59 -0400
From: "M. Traber" <mtraber251 at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] "Edible" Cinnamon Sticks
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius wrote:
> I have not (I wanted to get that caveat out of the way first). However,
> it occurs to me that if you wanted to waterproof cups, the thing to do
> might be to be sure to use sugar pounded as finely as humanly possible,
> with a view to getting as smooth a surface as possible to the worked
> piece, and then, when dry, lightly oiling the inner surface with
> something that's not likely to send your intended recipient into
> anaphylactic shock. Whatever that may be.

My idea for waterproofing a bowl once was decoratively gold leaving with
   several sheets of overlapping edible gold leafing sheets, and they
were stuck into the bowls using egg white with a smidge of honey added.
Didnt ooze the strawberry juices at all, and noticed no structural
problems. Bit expensive to do for anything but a laurel vigil though...
--  
Aruvqan, Cleric of 56 seasons
Avengers Federation, Solusek Ro
http://www.geocities.com/aruvqann/index.html


Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 22:59:57 -0400
From: kattratt <kattratt at charter.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re:sugar plate gelatin
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Devra at aol.com wrote:
> Is this a recipe that you can give us, or is it something that ne  buys in
> the store?  I have this wonderful cake book, that  calls for fondant  
> mixed with tragacanth... hm...
>     Devra
>
> Devra Langsam
> www.poisonpenpress.com

Uhm if you are talking to me then sure here it is...
Very Base recipe....

4 Cups Powdered Sugar... Ok this is shaky because we got to the point of
just saying to heck with it and pouring te sugar in... but for
arguments sake we'll say
4 Cups Powdered Sugar in a bowl and make a dent in the center... (Much
like you do when making pasta.)

Mix 4 ounces of boiling water with
4 Teaspoons of Gelatin (Mix well)

Pour the water gelatin mix into the dent in the powdered sugar.  (Why? I
dunno just do it.)
Mix that all together
Add More sugar keep mixing...
Keep Adding Sugar and Mixing it in until you can coat your hands with
sugar, and pick up the paste that has formed without it sticking to your
hans, too much.  Keep adding sugar and knead it in.  Add whatever color
you want and flavorings.   Keep kneading and adding sugar until you
reach playdoh consistency.
At that point your Sugar Paste is ready to mold into whatever you so
desire.    Although I d recommed molds.

Sorry that is my version of the recipe... I can go and check out the
book again from the library but that is the general gist of the recipe.

Nichola


Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 23:02:56 -0400
From: kattratt <kattratt at charter.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Price of Sugar paste (was "Edible" Cinnamon
	Sticks)
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Sorry it took so long,
I said that a pound of the paste would make about 2 cups.  (Actually
since then we have found the number to be about 4.)  Yes the little cups
we are making are about the size of muffin tins.  We ended up making
batches in about 4 pound batches.  We got 14 cups each time.  Our cups
are probably a little thicker than was needed but I doubt that you could
convince me of that with the cracking we were having.  All in all the
cups turned out well.  I will report how well they worked after next
weekend.  The gum tragastuff was way too expensive to use for this though.
For our recipe I think that we ended up using about 2lbs of
Confectioners sugar for each batch.  (That number could be wrong but I
think it was 2 lb bags. ) They made about 4 lbs of paste each time.  I
can tell you that when these things dried they weigh about like china
cups do.

Nichola


Irmgart H wrote:
> how large are your little cups? I haven't actually *made* sugar paste, just
> played with it... I'd think you'd get a heck of a lot more than 1 cup out of
> a pound of sugar!  Since 1 oz of sugar=110 calories, 1 lb of suga would be
> 1760 calories. Now, I don't know about you, but I'd have to swear off even
> *looking* at sugar paste if that were the case (yes, I'm one of the crazies
> who eats it)! I'm imagining that your "little cups" are around the size of
> muffin tin cups? I'd guess you'd get more like 10(or more) out of a pound of
> paste, which is more like 200 cups from the pound of gum tragastuff...
>
> Again, I've never actually *made* the stuff, just used it, so I could  
> be *way* off base as far as how much it will stretch.
>
> -Irmgart


Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 13:25:05 -0500
From: Robert Downie <rdownie at mb.sympatico.ca>
Sbject: Re: [Sca-cooks] sugarpaste recipe was:Period or no? - Long
	analysis	*G*
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

drakey2 at iinet.net.au wrote:

>pps.. Need to make sugar plate (for an edible decorated plate) and the lovely
> person I knew who had a good recipe has buggered off to geneva with her
> cookbooks...  Does anyone have a good one that involves making the 'gloop'
> (usually from Gu Trag or Gelatin) where you take a pea sized bit of it and
> slowing working the confectioners sugar in?

Peter Brears' recipe in Banquetting Stuffe :

To make the paste, take:
half tsp. (2.5 ml) gelatine
1 tsp. (5 ml) lemon juice
2 tsp. (10 ml) rosewater
half egg white, lightly beaten
12-16 oz (250-450 g) icing sugar (my note: modern icing sugar contains cornstarch filler, however this seems to add in the stabilization of the structure)
a few drops of food coloring if required

'Stir the gelatin into the lemon juice and rosewater in a basin and place over a
bowl of hot water until melted.  Stir in the egg white, add food coloring and work in the icing sugar, little by little, until a dough is formed.  It can then be turned out on a board dusted with icing sugar, kneaded until completely  
smooth, rolled out, and used as required.'

Faerisa


Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2005 20:23:24 -0600
From: Robert Downie <rdownie at mb.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Gum paste
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Patrick Levesque wrote:
> According to the information on the Florilegium, gum paste, once dried,
> becomes rock-hard and remains that way for quite a long time.
>
> I was wondering, however, how long it safely will remain edible in that
> state?
>
> Petru

Once it's completely dried it should stay edible almost indefinitely
(pretty much like any hard candies/mints), provided it's been stored in
a clean dry place where it won't pick up any odors from other items.
Just be careful not to chip any teeth when the time comes to eat it.
Break it into small pieces and don't bite down hard on it.

Faerisa


Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2005 20:47:44 -0500
From: kattratt <kattratt at charter.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Gum paste
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Patrick Levesque wrote:
> According to the information on the Florilegium, gum paste, once dried,
> becomes rock-hard and remains that way for quite a long time.
>
> I was wondering, however, how long it safely will remain edible in that
> state?
>
> Petru

Depends upon where you store it.  I will warn you however when it says
rock hard it means it!!!!  It could almost break your teeth and IS water
proof at least for cold water.  Rather tasty if flavored however.  We
kept some in the freezer for about 2-3 months before serving.  It makes
great dishes.  Damn and sitting here I just figured out how to do plates
out of the stuff.   Arrrrggg where was that brain wave a year ago!!!!
  Nichola

Who made cups last year out of gum/sugar paste but avoided plates so
that we wouldn't have to break plates... It never occurred to me to use
styrofoam plates [as molds - Stefan] !!!!! DUH!!!!!!


Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2005 21:18:56 -0500
From: kattratt <kattratt at charter.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Gum paste
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Lonnie D. Harvel wrote:
> How did you make the cups?

I got lucky and found some old jello cups at an antiques store.  After
that I simply made the paste and pushed about 1/4 inch of paste into
each well greased cup.   Set them up on a shelf and let them dry out on
the exposed part and pulled them out. (about a day)  We filled them with
candied peaches. (Manual de Mujeres).

Nichola


Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2005 21:28:04 -0500
From: kattratt <kattratt at charter.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: Gum Paste
To: alysk at ix.netcom.com, Cooks within the SCA
	<sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Elise Fleming wrote:
> kattrat wrote:
>> We kept some in the freezer for about 2-3 months before serving.
> Question: Did you wrap it in something?  You didn't have any problems with
> moisture?  And, why did you put it in the freezer rather than just letting
> it sit out, covered from dust and animals?  Gum paste won't spoil in that
> time.
>
> Alys Katharine

Well now the funny thing is that you sort of answered that one in your
question...

First off we didn't wrap them we just stuck them in a box and popped
them into the freezer.  (This is a chest style freezer not an upright.) Nope no problems with moisture as they were really dried out.  As far
as spoiling well honestly I had no clue as to the shelf life of gum
paste and wanted to preserve the taste as much as possible.  (They were
lemon flavored)  And finally I stored them in the freezer because at the
time that was the place that was dust free and animal free.
We are wanting to move very soon to fix that problem... animals, not the
dust... ;)

Nichola


Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 18:05:57 +0000
From: "Olwen the Odd" <olwentheodd at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] "sturdy" marzipan recipe
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

As for a sturdier marzipan, I have found noted in a few places (I can dig
them up if you like, I think Brears book has one and To the -----'s Taste
has also, can't recall which, and somewhere else too) that if you want your
marzipan a little stiffer then you can add some gum tragicanth (sp?) and
some icing sugar with some rosewater.  Basically, it amounts to adding
sugarplate.  When I do this, it ends up being referred to (around here) as
marzi-plate.  Works great!  The working time of the sugarplate is very small
window, when some is mixed with marzipan it really extends the working time
and ends up drying very stiff.  I must warn though, if you mix the
sugarplate up and add it to the marzipan or even if you start with just
adding the raw ingredients then the mix to a thorough inclusion takes
forever!

> Kathleen A Roberts wrote:
>> a lady in our kingdom is looking for a 'sturdy marzipan recipe' for her
>> sculpture class.  she wants something that 'will last'.  and she 
>> wants to have fun with the project.
>>
>> cailte


Date: Sun, 29 May 2005 18:58:00 -0500
From: Robert Downie <rdownie at mb.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Sugar Plate - gelatin vs Gum Trag...
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

drakey2 at iinet.net.au wrote:
> With Sugar Plate, what are the advantages/disadvantages between using 
> Gelatin and Gum Traganth and are there any other agents that can be used and 
> the relative merits of them...

I've found the major advantage to using gelatin is lower cost.
Gelatin is available in my grocery store for very little money, whereas
would have to mail order gum tragacanth for more money :-)

I can't speak for the workability of gum trag, since I haven't had a
chance to use it yet (but I do want to do a comparison between the
available products, gelatine, gum tragacanth, tylose(?) at some point in
my copious spare time...) but I seem to have to work relatively quickly
with the gelatine version when hand building to avoid drying and surface
cracking.  It doesn't seem to matter as much when using wood or plaster
molds.  I also want to experiment adding  glucose to the mixture to see
if it extends the workability without compromising stability.

I fooled quite a few people with the sugar paste napkins this weekend,
they thought they were fabric until they tried to pick them up, heh, 
heh.

Faerisa


Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 20:42:55 -0600
From: Robert Downie <rdownie at mts.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] sugar-paste and other sugar craft info
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Heather M wrote:
> Dame Alys (waves) takes up period sugarplate. I had never heard of this
> before, being a n00b in the ways of Real Period Cooking, and thought it
> sounded Spiff and Nifty To Try. I'd been thinking of playing with
> sugarplate for 12th Night.

I don't know if you want to go to this much trouble for a possibly one
time only project, but there is a wealth of information regarding
people's adventures with sugarpaste available in the archived  (and
searcheable) messages and files section of the SCA Subtleties group:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA_Subtleties/

If you think it may help you with your project, you could always change
your settings to no mail and just mine the messages, files and links for
information at your convenience.

Faerisa


Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 11:15:58 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
From: Christiane <christianetrue at earthlink.net>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Sugar plate sotelties and Santoku knives
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Last night my husband and I went to Pennsbury Manor's Holly Night.  
The manor is the recreated 17th century country estate of William  
Penn, founder of Pennsylvania. We wandered the grounds, the paths of  
which were lit by candle lumieres, threw sprigs of holly into the  
bonfire for good luck, and toured the manor house, the first floor of  
which was decorated with holly and other greenery for a winter party  
(the Quakers really didn't celebrate Christmas). Everything was lit  
by candles. It was very pretty.

When we walked into the dining room, I was very pleased to see the  
sotelties on the table. There was a sugar-plate reproduction of the  
manor house in miniature, with sugar gravel and grass (all colored  
with natural dyes such as spinach and saffron), marzipan peacocks  
(peacocks wander the grounds during the clement months), William and  
Hannah Penn's initials done in sugar rope, and even more charming,  
plates and goblets made of sugar.

In the kitchen, a very enthusiastic gentleman talked about how the  
sugar plate was produced, and how it was used. There were other  
things on his table; comfits of candied angelica and caraway seeds,  
and sugar-glazed crabapples.

All I could think of was, "Hmm. I know a few folks who would have  
been avidly asking questions." So I tried to ask some.

The sugar plate was produced with sugar, gum tragacanth, and  
rosewater. In Penn's day (the late 1690s), all of these ingredients  
had to be imported. Although there was a well-laid-out series of  
gardens in his day, he would have not had enough roses to distill his  
own rosewater. This would have made all of this sugar plate a very  
expensive display of wealth. Guests would have been given a sugar  
plate and a sugar goblet for the party. They'd have a wine-flavored  
sugar goblet to eat there, or later on. The sugar plate would have  
been produced months in advance, and packed away for when needed.

Gianotta


Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 14:50:50 -0500
From: "Elise Fleming" <alysk at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Sugar plate sotelties...
To: "sca-cooks at ansteorra.org" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Gianotta wrote:
> Last night my husband and I went to Pennsbury Manor's Holly Night.  
> (snip)
> There was a sugar-plate reproduction of the manor house in miniature,
> with sugar gravel and grass (all colored with natural dyes such as spinach and
> saffron), marzipan peacocks (peacocks wander the grounds during the
> clement months), William and Hannah Penn's initials done in sugar rope, and
> even more charming, plates and goblets made of sugar. (snip)
> So, how far back does the use of sugar-plate eating and drinking utensils go?
> Was this a practice in period?

In a brief answer, yes, it was a period practice.  Italian sources record
earlier dates of sugar plate utensils than in England, but both are within
the SCA time frame.  I wonder who made the items??  Susan McClellan
Plaisted is the Director of Foodways at Pennsbury Manor.  She was in Ivan
Day's sugarwork class last May that I attended where we worked on sugar
paste and comfits in particular.  (She's one of the group going to the
Leeds Food History Symposium and Ivan Day's Tudor and early Stuart cookery
class.  Her web site is at http://www.hearttohearthcookery.com/)

In one of the articles on sugar that I wrote (on my web site) I have a
listing of all the items made of sugar paste that I could find in period
English texts.  It includes such things as shoes, gloves, lights...

Alys Katharine

Elise Fleming
alysk at ix.netcom.com
http://home.netcom.com/~alysk/


Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2006 19:10:46 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Master Bogdan on confectioner's sugar from 2003
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Before we dismiss powdered sugar with starch,
Here is a message from Master Bogdan (Jeffrey Heilveil) regarding
starch in sugarpaste and starch in modern confectioner's sugars.

It first appeared on the MK Cooks List among other lists.
(And yes I know that there is a difference between wheat starch
and corn (maize) starch and as to what would have been used prior
to 1600.)

Johnnae
-----------------------

[mk-cooks] confectioner's sugar is (sort of) OK for A&S
9/11/2003 9:16 AM

Gak.  Don't believe I typed that out loud.  Of course, if nothing else it
got your attention, right?

So the problem we all have with confectioner's sugar is the 3% cornstarch.
The problem with making our own is carpel-tunnel (for some of us) and time
(for all of us, I hope).  Cornstarch is still wrong.... but starch  
isn't.

I was doing some background research for an interview I'm doing on mead
making and came across the following:
Hugh Plat _Delightes for Ladies_.
In "the art of preserving":
13. the making of sugar-paste, and casting thereof in carved molds.

"Take one pound of the whitest refined or double refined sugar, if you can
gette it: put thereto three ounces (some comfit-makers put sixe ounces for
more gaine) of the best starch you can buy; and if you dry the sugar after
it is powdered, it will the sooner paste thorough your lawne searce..."

Let's see at 12oz/# that should be 20% starch then....  not 3%....
Wallpaper paste is wheat starch...
It would make for a VERY different sugarpaste than most of the other
recipes I've seen.

Have fun.  Get sugar everywhere.  Remember, it'll dissolve with water
eventually...

Bogdan


Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 21:29:28 -0400
From: Daniel Myers <eduard at medievalcookery.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] powdered sugar question
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

On Aug 7, 2006, at 1:15 PM, Terry Decker wrote:
> If you are asking is powdered sugar period, the answer is yes.  It was
> produced by crushing regular sugar.  Modern powdered sugar has
> cornstarch to keep it from clumping, which is the primary difference.

Then there's this from Hugh Plat's "Delights for Ladies":

"The making of sugar-paste, and casting thereof in carved moulds.
Take one pound of the whitest refined or double refined sugar, if you
can gette it: put thereto three ounces (some comfit-makers put six
ounces for more gaine) of the best starch you can buy; and if you dry
the Sugar after it is powdered, it wll the sooner paste thorough your
Lawne Searce. Then searce it, and lay the same on a heap in the midst
of a sheet of clean paper: ..."

- Doc
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
   Edouard Halidai  (Daniel Myers)

<the end>
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