pulled-sugar-msg

pulled-sugar-msg – 5/19/06

The case for and against pulled/spun sugar being period.

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NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.

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Thank you,

Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous

Stefan at florilegium.org

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Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 20:57:37 -0400

From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] spun sugar in subtleties (long)

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise wrote:

> Hey, does anyone have any information handy about spun sugar being used

> or not used in period subtleties?

I had an injection in my knee today so I

can't really sit and tidy this all up. I am pulling

this from my sugarworks file from earlier postings that

I have made on this topic... Hope it all helps.

I am tempted to say welllll it all depends on your

definition of what spun sugar is....

Johnnae

-------------------------

There was a Venetian collation given in honor

of Henri III of France where everything on the

table had been made of spun sugar: the bread, the

plates, the knives, even including and this is what

the author found interesting the forks... It was

created by Nicolo delle Cavalliera.

This is described in Toussaint-Samat's History of Food

on page 567. Back in 2002, I really thought this was probably

a good source to go with.

Unfortunately, Toussant-Samat got it wrong and these items

were sugarpaste and not "spun sugar." I wrote some time back

to Claudio Benporat in Italy and he went through the entire

mistranslation deal with me.

I would now have to in all honesty say that Henri was treated

to various items of sugarpaste and cast sugar items and

NOT spun sugar. I would guess that the Medici Weddings

of both 1589 and 1600 are probably also sugarpaste and cast sugar.

As for what they served Christina in Rome in the 1650's,

the prints survive and can be viewed in various works.

For pulled sugar, one has to remember

that in order to have pulled sugar, they must have made the

transition from honey to sugar and figured out how to work with

boiling a sugar syrup. In any case you should start with

one of the best books on confections and sweets which is

Sugar-Plums and Sherbet by Laura Mason. Also see

her PPC 69 article which has the early English mss. candy recipes

in it. They date from the 15th century.

In Sugar-Plums and Sherbet she dates pulled

sugar to the year 1500 where in the York manuscript

there is a recipe "To make Penydes" where hot sugar

syrup is worked with the hands. See page 84.

The manuscript "Goud Kokery" which is section V

in Curye on Inglysch has the following:

13. To make suger plate

14. To mak penydes

15. To make ymages in suger.

This mss. is dated late 1300's.

The penydes recipe is interesting because penydes is

actually pulled and drawn out with the hands over a hook.

It was then cut with shears. See Laura Mason for description.

(Yes, this is the beginning of pulled candies.)

Johnnae

Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 18:34:57 -0500 (GMT-05:00)

From: Elise Fleming <alysk at ix.netcom.com>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Spun Sugar

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Greetings. There are documented, period recipes for items made from a

boiled sugar syrup which is then poured into a mold (usually in two or

three parts). This is then rolled around in the hand or swung overhead

to coat the mold and leave the center hollow. I wouldn't call this

spun sugar, but it does produce a hollow sugar item which can be

colored (in the initial syrup) or painted afterwards. The thin strings

that one might call "spun" don't seem to be in period, and to my

knowledge, blown sugar item are OOP, unfortunately. If they were to be

in period, one might find them in Italian references.

Alys Katharine

Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 20:47:48 -0400

From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius"

<adamantius.magister at verizon.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: Spun Sugar

To: Elise Fleming <alysk at ix.netcom.com>, Cooks within the SCA

<sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

On Jul 13, 2005, at 7:34 PM, Elise Fleming wrote:

> Greetings. There are documented, period recipes for items made

> from a boiled sugar syrup which is then poured into a mold

> (usually in two or three parts). This is then rolled around in the

> hand or swung overhead to coat the mold and leave the center

> hollow. I wouldn't call this spun sugar, but it does produce a

> hollow sugar item which can be colored (in the initial syrup) or

> painted afterwards. The thin strings that one might call "spun"

> don't seem to be in period, and to my knowledge, blown sugar item

> are OOP, unfortunately. If they were to be in period, one might

> find them in Italian references.

I'm pretty sure the thread-spinning technique was used to determine

sugar-boiling temperature / candy state in some 15th-century English

recipes, but whether that was used in period as a construction

material, I don't know.

Adamantius

Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 06:17:27 -0500 (GMT-05:00)

From: Elise Fleming <alysk at ix.netcom.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: Spun Sugar

To: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius"

<adamantius.magister at verizon.net>, Cooks within the SCA

<sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Adamantius wrote:

> I'm pretty sure the thread-spinning technique was used to determine

> sugar-boiling temperature / candy state in some 15th-century English

> recipes, but whether that was used in period as a construction

> material, I don't know.

I would agree that it was used to determine sugar temperature in

period. I suppose some folk might say that if they could dip their

finger into hot syrup and make a thread between thumb and finger that

they could have extrapolated that to using an instrument to wave sugar

threads around into a pattern, but one thing doesn't necessarily follow

another - or we'd have had lots more inventions earlier on. I haven't

seen any evidence in English books, nor references to things made like

that. The "faulty translation" reference that Johanna gave was the

only one I'd seen for "proof".

Alys Katharine

Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 12:32:45 -0400

From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: Spun Sugar

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

"Italian cooks were also farther ahead of their English counterparts in

the use of sugar paste and other confections. They had developed "spun

sugar" prior to the 1600s. and even had an academy prior to 1615

dedicated to the art of freezing and making sugary ices.(9)"

Source :

9. David, Elizabeth. "The Harvest of Cold Months, Petits Propos Culinaires, #3

as cited in "Of Sugar and Confections" by Alys Katharine, O.L., O.P. (Elise

Fleming). in the Florilegium

I think we can document the ices, but the "spun sugar"?

Was the source here that same Venetian banquet served to Henri III?

Johnnae

Elise Fleming wrote:

> I would agree that it was used to determine sugar temperature in

> period. I suppose some folk might say that if they could dip their

> finger into hot syrup and make a thread between thumb and finger that

> they could have extrapolated that to using an instrument to wave sugar

> threads around into a pattern, but one thing doesn't necessarily

> follow another - or we'd have had lots more inventions earlier on. I

> haven't seen any evidence in English books, nor references to things

> made like that. The "faulty translation" reference that Johanna gave

> was the only one I'd seen for "proof". Alys Katharine

Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 21:01:29 -0500

From: Robert Downie <rdownie at mb.sympatico.ca>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: Spun Sugar

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Carole Smith wrote:

> I have a vivid memory of getting some hot sugar syrup on my fingers

> once. It held a lot of heat and was hard to wash off quickly because

> of its viscosity. No way would I voluntarily make a sugar thread this

> way.

> Cordelia Toser

Hot sugar can be nasty stuff. One of my co-workers got 2nd degree burns

on her arms between where the oven mitts ended and her sleeves started

while flipping over a large tray of pecan buns (if she hadn't run

straight to the sink and kept the cold water running over the burn area,

it would have been even worse).

That being said, the tips of your fingers, when repeatedly subjected to

large doses of heat for short periods at a time, will eventually develop

a resistance to it. Just ask anyone who has hand turned comfits in a

frying pan for any length of time :-) When you are dealing with a very

small amount of hot sugar between the pads of your fingertips, it's a

much more controlled circumstance than accidentally spilling a big glob

of the stuff on a more sensitive part of your hand or anywhere else on

your body.

Of course, common sense and caution should always be exercised when

dealing with hot sugar syrup.

Faerisa