pastry-technq-msg - 10/13/13
Techniques in pastry making.
NOTE: See also the files: pastries-msg, pastry-logs-msg, Rosquillas-msg, Chastlete-art, Andlsn-Pstres-art, almond-cream-msg, cak-soteltes-msg, Custard-Tarts-art.
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Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous
Stefan at florilegium.org
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Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 19:35:15 -0500
From: "Sayyida Halima al-Shafi'i of Raven's Cove" <lkuney at ec.rr.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] porter cake, rubbing in butter, etc.
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
> Sieve the flour and rub in the butter;
>>> "rub in the butter"? What does this mean? I've heard of folding in
>>> the butter. Is this something different?
This is characteristic of British recipes. It means you cut up the
butter into slices, drop it into the flour, and stick your meathooks
into the bowl and rub the butter into the flour with your fingers. This
yields a corn-mealy texture. When I lived in England, my British
friends though I was being "prissy" (not wanting to get my hands dirty)
when I used two knives to cut in some butter while making pastry. They
really thought I was nuts. If you use an electric blender and cream the
butter and flour, you'll get paste.
Halima
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 09:10:46 +0200
From: Jessica Tiffin <melisant at iafrica.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] porter cake
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Stefan asked:
>> "rub in the butter"? What does this mean? I've heard of folding in
>> the butter. Is this something different?
and Nancy Kiel wrote:
> I've always interpreted this as sort of creaming the butter and flour
> together.
Rubbing in the fat is what you do for pastry-making: start with a bowl of
flour, with whatever spices mixed in, add the chilled fat cut into little
bits, and have at it with your fingertips, rubbing the fat and flour
together until the mixture resembles breadcrumbs. It actually gives you
quite a different effect to creaming the fat and mixing in the flour,
somehow. Is "rubbing in" not a standard term in American cookery? it's
one of the basics in my Brit-influenced habits...
Jehanne de Huguenin (Jessica Tiffin) * Drachenwald Kingdom Chronicler
Shire of Adamastor, Cape Town, South Africa
melisant at iafrica.com *** http://users.iafrica.com/m/me/melisant
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 08:43:11 -0500
From: "Phil Troy/ G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] porter cake
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Also sprach Jessica Tiffin:
> Rubbing in the fat is what you do for pastry-making: start with a
> bowl of flour, with whatever spices mixed in, add the chilled fat
> cut into little bits, and have at it with your fingertips, rubbing
> the fat and flour together until the mixture resembles breadcrumbs.
This is the technique Americans associate with "mealy" pie pastry (as
opposed to flaky, in which the lumps of fat are larger and, when the
pastry is rolled out, turn into laminated flakes). Mealy pie dough is
used for things like pot [approximately, cottage] pies or custard
pies, which have a high liquid component, and are supposed to be less
susceptible to sogginess and puncturing. I expect that in the UK and
cultural offshoots a hot-water pastry would be the preferred method
for at least some of this stuff.
> It actually gives you quite a different effect to creaming the fat
> and mixing in the flour, somehow.
If the fat is butter (which usually contains at least some water),
rubbing it into the flour may be more likely to build gluten than by
creaming it and mixing, resulting in a tougher pastry. There's also a
difference somehow related to the emulsifying properties of creamed
fats. My own experience has been that rubbing in can give you a
denser product, more simply shortened, with a slightly oily texture,
than by creaming, which aerates the finished product and tends to
create a less greasy mouth feel. Or, it may all come down to a simple
difference in the extent to which the fat and the flour are mixed.
> Is "rubbing in" not a standard term in American cookery? it's one
> of the basics in my Brit-influenced habits...
I'd say it's known, but not as commonly used. As I mentioned
recently, Americans seem not to use this for cakes; so much so in
fact that many people essentially don't recognize anything outside
the cream cake genre (starting with butter and sugar creamed
together, adding eggs and dry ingredients --usually flour sifted with
baking powder-- alternately) as a cake. Egg sponges of various kinds
get special dispensation, but ordinarily, when you say "cake",
unqualified, you mean a cream cake.
Adamantius
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 08:35:37 -0500
From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius"
<adamantius.magister at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Standing crust
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Also sprach Alex Clark:
>At 11:34 PM 2/16/2004 -0500, Doc wrote:
>>Cut the shortening into the flour, mix in water a bit at a time,
>>roll out. . . .
>
>Does anyone know of any period documentation for cutting fat into
>dry ingredients like this? The earliest pastry recipe that I know of
>with cut fat is from Digby, and the fat is mixed into the dough, not
>into the dry ingredients.
There's a French pastry recipe in verse, I think from the late
fourteenth century, here:
http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/menagier/menagier11.html#English
My own English translation of it is, at best, an alpha version, but
it speaks of the dough being a bit rough ("Les croutes, un poi
rudemont"), which might argue in favor of fat being broken or cut in.
Elsewhere in the recipe there's a reference to diced fat bacon, but
it's not absolutely clear to me whether this is an ingredient in the
pastry of in the filling of the pastry.
I believe there's a recipe in Markham, which, while late, is earlier
than Digby, anyway, for making rough coffins (essentially preserving
containers) for meats, out of rye. I'll see if I can find it.
Adamantius
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 08:54:43 -0400
From: "Elise Fleming" <alysk at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Pie Shapers: Was Speaking of Beets
To: "sca-cooks at ansteorra.org" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Cealian asked:
> I always wondered if a wood cut could have been used like a mold to
> obtain panels for the sides and possibly tops of some great pies.
> Simply because some of the pictures of great pies showing
> scenes seem a little to well sculpted and clean lined to have been
> done by hand repeatedly.
When we made chewets in Ivan Day's course last April he used a pie "former"
or "shaper" around which we pressed the dough to make specific sizes and
shapes. Of course, experience with years of shaping coffins would tend to
lead to uniformity. As to the top, I've seen lovely designs done by hand,
but that doesn't mean that the design wasn't cut out using cutters for
leaves, etc., which he or someone else at another course demonstrated.
Alys Katharine
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 23:36:30 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Speaking of beets...
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Woodcuts could have been used to mold panels for great pies, but there are
some technical difficulties with being able to separate the paste from the
mold. Also, I have seen no indication they were used in that manner.
Woodcuts were used as molds to decorate gingerbread, other cakes and some
breads (such as the Orthodox eucharist).
Bear
> A contemplation, if you will I always wondered if a wood cut could have
> been used like a mold to obtain panels for the sides and possibly tops of
> some great pies. Simply because some of the pictures of great pies showing
> scenes seem a little to well sculpted and clean lined to have been
> done by hand repeatedly.
> Cealian
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 00:09:53 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Pie Shapers: Was Speaking of Beets
To: <alysk at ix.netcom.com>, "Cooks within the SCA"
<sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
One of the great skills of a baker is to be able to cut and form dough by
hand to produce decorations for breads and other bakegoods (I haven't
practiced enough to be anywhere near good). The little that I have found
makes me think molds were used where freehand decoration wasn't practical
(as with ginger bread) or where standardization was required (as with the
Eucharist).
Using molds with a pie shaper or for a pie cover would probably work, but I
haven't seen anything to suggest it occurred. It's an interesting
question.
Bear
> When we made chewets in Ivan Day's course last April he used a pie "former"
> or "shaper" around which we pressed the dough to make specific sizes and
> shapes. Of course, experience with years of shaping coffins would tend to
> lead to uniformity. As to the top, I've seen lovely designs done by hand,
> but that doesn't mean that the design wasn't cut out using cutters for
> leaves, etc., which he or someone else at another course demonstrated.
>
> Alys Katharine
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 11:06:24 -0800 (PST)
From: Lawrence Bayne <shonsu_78 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Thought this was an amusing article
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
> The best pie crusts are made with lard anyway.
> Treif-o-rama!
>
> Selene
Actually, the best pie crusts are made with lard AND butter.
Butter at room temp mixed with dry ingredients and
lard shredded and ice cold mixed in later. So that you
have the combination of a crust that will hold up to
almost anything, yet it will be tender and flaky at
the same time. BTW, my Grandma used a pinch of Baking
soda and ice cold vinegar as well.
None of this will make those following a Kosher diet
happy though.
Lothar
<the end>