pastry-logs-msg - 11/19/05 Period 'jelly-roll' pastries made of a flat dough spread with filling and then rolled up. These may then be sliced or not. Cinnamon rolls. NOTE: See also the files: Andlsn-Pstres-art, baklava-msg, pastries-msg, Sugar-Icing-art, sotelties-msg, Chastlete-art, desserts-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 23:58:35 -0500 From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" Subject: SC - Recipe: Spanish babka (was cinnamon rolls) The recipe, as promised. Lots of footnotes and comments afterwards. This one was easy to understand, but hard to translate. There are a lot of terms that don't have easy English equivalents. (Hence, the footnotes.) Source: Diego Granado, _Libro del arte de cozina_, 1599 Translation: Lady Brighid ni Chiarain (Robin Carroll-Mann) PARA HAZER TORTILLON RELLENO -- To make a stuffed tortillon[1] Knead two pounds of the flower of the flour[2] with six yolks of fresh eggs, and two ounces of rosewater, and one ounce of leaven diluted with tepid water, and four ounces of fresh cowís butter[3], or pork lard[3] which has no bad odor, and salt, and be stirring said dough for the space of half an hour, and make a thin leaf[4] or pastry[5] and anoint it with melted fat which should not be very hot, and cut the edges around, sprinkle the pastry with four ounces of sugar, and one ounce of cinnamon, and then have a pound of small raisins of Corinth, which have been given a boil in wine, and a pound of dates cooked in the same wine, and cut small, and all of the said things should be mixed together with sugar, cinnamon, and cloves, and nutmeg, and put the said mixture spread over the pastry with some morsels of cowís butter, and beginning with the long end of the pastry, roll it upwards, taking care not to break the dough, and this tortillon or roll must not be rolled more than three turns, so that it will cook better, and it does not have to go very tight. Anoint it on top with fat, not very hot. It will begin to twist by itself at one end which is not very closed[6], in such a manner that it becomes like a snail. Have the pie pan ready with a pastry of the same dough[7], somewhat fatty, anointed with melted fat, and put the tortillon lightly upon it without pressing it, and make it cook in the oven, or under a large earthen pot with temperate fire, tending it from time to time by anointing it with melted cowís butter, and being almost cooked, put sugar on top, and rosewater, and serve it hot. The pie pan in which you cook the tortillones must be wide, and must have very low edges. A bunch of notes: [1] I cannot find a Spanish culinary definition for ìtortillonî. It is an 18th century French term for a kind of hairstyle, and a modern French term for an art tool -- a tightly rolled piece of paper, used to blur and soften pencil lines. The French words apparently come from the verb ìtordreî -- to twist. All of the recipes which bear this name have a rolled-up pastry with some kind of filling. If I had to translate the Spanish, I would render it as something like ìroll-pastryî. [2] Remember when we were having the discussion about ìflowerî meaning the best of something? I was tempted to comment that some Spanish recipes have a phrase that I would be obliged to translate as ìthe flower of the flourî. Well, here it is: ìflor de la harinaî. [3] Both of these phrases use the same noun: ìmantecaî. This can mean either butter or lard. I have translated ìmanteca de vacaî as cowís butter, ìmanteca de puercoî as pork lard, and undifferentiated ìmantecaî as fat. [4] ìOjuelaî -- literally, small leaf [5] ìojaldreî (sometimes spelt hojaldre). Its etymology is also from ìhojaî (leaf). The modern definition is puff-pastry. The recipes I have seen for pies made with ojaldre call for a rich unleavened dough with eggs and fat, about half a finger thick . Itís coated with melted fat, rolled into a cylinder the thickness of an arm, then sliced into pieces two fingers thick. (Presumably these slices are then rolled out, though the recipe doesnít specify.) Itís basted with melted fat during baking, the better to separate into leaves. (ìOjaldrarî, one of those verbs which require a sentence to translate properly.) Some recipes call for the base or top pastry of a pie to contain a certain number of ojaldres. This tortillon recipe seems to say that the dough can either be just rolled out thinly, or it can be turned into a sort of ojaldre (though they are not normally leavened, AFAIK). If the former, I donít think it is intended to be too thin, since the roll is only supposed to make three turns. [6] I gather from this that one end *should* be tightly closed, leaving the other to expand into a snail-like trumpet. [7] This pastry underneath seems to function as part of the pan, not part of the tortillon. It appears in other recipes as well. A non-stick cookie sheet might render it unnecessary. Other assorted comments on redacting this: Two pounds of flour is more than eight cups. Iíd be inclined to halve the recipe, unless you were making a huge pastry to serve high table. I donít know how much one ounce of leaven is in modern terms. For a half recipe (four cups of flour), a package of dried yeast (2-1/4 teaspoons) would suffice. I look forward to redacting this one, since yeasted baked goods are something I enjoy making. I also look forward to seeing what other folks make of this one. Lady Brighid ni Chiarain Settmour Swamp, East (NJ) Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 14:10:15 -0000 From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Nanna_R=F6gnvaldard=F3ttir?=" Subject: Re: SC - Recipe: Spanish babka (was cinnamon rolls) >I look forward to redacting this one, since yeasted baked goods are >something I enjoy making. I also loo forward to seeing what other folks >make of this one. Thank you very much for the recipe. In some ways, it is remarkably like an old family recipe which I sometimes make - this is a rich yeast dough, spread with cinnamon-sugar and raisins, rolled loosely, twisted into a snail-shape and placed in a large pan lined with more dough, then baked. Here is the recipe, for comparision. Cinnamon snail (AKA The Monster) 2 tbsps dried yeast 450 ml (2 cups) lukewarm water 2 tbsps sugar about 1 kg flour (8-9 cups) 3 large egg yolks 100 g butter, softened (plus more for spreading) 3/4 tsp salt 75 g (about 1/3 cup) cinnamon-sugar 250 g (1/2 lb) raisins Dissolve the yeast in the water with a pinch of sugar. When frothy, stir in about half the flour, the egg yolks, butter and salt. Gradually add more flour, until the dough can be kneaded with floured hands but is still fairly soft. Knead very well, then place in a floured bowl for an hour or so, or until doubled. Punch down the dough and reserve about a quarter of it. Roll the rest out fairly thinly, to a size of about 30x60 centimeters (12x24 inches). Spread liberally with softened butter, then sprinkle with cinnamon-sugar and raisins. Roll the dough up loosely from the bottom long edge (three turns is fine). Now roll out the reserved dough into a circle, slightly larger than your pan (I use a 12-inch pan), and press it down into the pan and up the sides. Spread with some softened butter. Now arrange the cinnamon roll in a circle on top, beginning in the middle, so that it resembles a snail (or wheel, or whatever). Leave to rise for about 35 minutes and preheat the oven to 200 C (400 F). Brush the dough with cream, milk or water with some sugar added, place in oven and bake for around 35 minutes. Do not cut immediately but the cake is best warm. Notes: The bottom layer used to line the pan becomes a part of the finished cake and supports it; without it the cake would tend to fall apart when removed from the pan. The cake will rise high - usually to a height of 12-15 centimeters (5-6 inches). In my home at least, it is usually not cut into wedges; everyone just cuts off a piece the size and shape he wants. Doesn¥t matter, it usually does not last the day. Sometimes I top the cake with a white or chocolate icing but more often it is served plain, with extra cinnamon-sugar for those who want a more sweet cake. Nanna Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 09:28:07 -0500 From: Philip & Susan Troy Subject: Re: SC - Recipe: Spanish babka (was cinnamon rolls) There are certain parallels to modern recipes in the Stuffed Tortillon recipe, which might help modern cooks (i.e. us) understand what's going on. The number of eggs required to accurately reproduce the recipe is a legitimate question that I'll leave to others. I was intrigued by the reference to cutting the rolled-out dough around the edge; it reminds me a great deal of most strudel recipes I've seen, because they involve stretching the dough by hand, with the assistance of gravity, rather than rolling it out with a rolling pin. So, the edges tend to be thicker than the center. Ask a metalworker about the effects of raising a piece of sheet metal; the same thing happens. Removing those thickened edges suggests an extreme delicacy, a meticulousness to the cuisine. Now, if this is intended to be rolled with a rolling pin, why remove or cut the edges? As for the instruction to roll it upwards, with one end tighter than the other, I wonder if the line about starting from the long edge of the pastry could imply starting from one end of the roll to be, in other words putting uneven torsion on the two ends of the roll-to-be. (Which might explain the emphasis on not letting the rather short dough tear.) This would not only cause one end to be tighter than the other, but if the end _not_ under pressure from the hands remains slightly stuck to the board, the end in your hands would tend to spiral, to some extent, around the open end. It's beginning to look to me like the final form of the tortillon could be a double spiral, with a raised center where the looser-rolled end lies. The liner pastry might or might not be intended to be eaten; it brings to mind some of the tracta stuff we've been discussing in connection with Cato's placenta cheesecake recipe. It might be that this has to go into a fairly hot oven, and the plan is for this layer to be allowed to bake a little bit darker than is palatable, then the snail-like covering only be eaten. The basting instructions suggest the upper portion should be slightly crisp but tender, not too crusty. The final instructions about the shape of the pan seems to support the idea that this cooks fairly quickly, which in turn might suggest a moderately hot (what more modern cooks would call a quick) oven. Whether or not that's consistent with the instructions about baking it under an earthenware cloche, I don't know. Seems rather a lot like a stollen...lovely stuff! Adamantius Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:06:14 -0500 (EST) From: Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Question regarding canisiones... To: Cooks within the SCA > Through a long and complicated set of circumstances, I find myself looking > for a recipe that looks vaguely log-like for the dessert course of an > illusion feast. The feast itself (our Barony's Midwinter) is mid-16th > century French, and I hit upon Duke Cariadoc's redaction of "the pastry > that they call canisiones" from Platina as being reasonably appropriate. > However, the desserts are already going to feature quite a bit of marzipan, > so I was wondering: Would it be appropriate to use anything else besides > rosewater and almonds as the flavoring? Is anyone aware of a similar > recipe, maybe in Martino or Epulario, with a different filling? > > Any advice will be greatly appreciated. > > -Gytha Can't give you advice on that one, but isn't there a recipe for date logs (I mean, chopped dates processed into long log-like objects) in the corpus? I think it may be reproduced in Take 1000 Eggs? -- Pani Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne at fiedlerfamily.net Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 08:59:40 -0800 From: david friedman Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Question regarding canisiones... To: Cooks within the SCA Gytha asked: >Through a long and complicated set of circumstances, I find myself >looking for a recipe that looks vaguely log-like for the dessert >course of an illusion feast. The feast itself (our Barony's >Midwinter) is mid-16th century French, and I hit upon Duke >Cariadoc's redaction of "the pastry that they call canisiones" from >Platina as being reasonably appropriate. However, the desserts are >already going to feature quite a bit of marzipan, so I was >wondering: Would it be appropriate to use anything else besides >rosewater and almonds as the flavoring? Is anyone aware of a >similar recipe, maybe in Martino or Epulario, with a different >filling? The closest recipe I know is Islamic (khsukananaj), but it also has an almond/sugar/rosewater filling, so that doesn't help. I don't know anything similar with a different filling, but I don't know the Italian and Spanish sources very well; I would also look in the Spanish sources, since they sometimes have overlapping recipes with the Italian. Elizabeth/Betty Cook Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 10:08:41 -0800 From: David Friedman Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] canisoles To: Cooks within the SCA Cadoc mentioned "canisoles" and Stefan asked: > I don't have a copy of Platina. And I just did a > search in the Florilegium for "canisoles" and > got no hits. So, could someone please post the > recipe? Preferably a translation and any > redactions they have? This sounds like a good > item for the various holiday pot lucks coming up. I think it is the canisiones recipe he is talking about; below is our version from the Miscellany. We haven't done it very often, because it is similar to the Islamic khushkananaj, which we like better--it has oil in the pastry and keeps longer. Pastry Which They Call Canisiones Platina p. 144 (book 8) When you have rolled out your pastry made of meal with sugar and rosewater and formed it like a crust, put into it the same mixture as the one I said in the section on marzapan [Take almonds that have soaked in fresh water for a day and night and when you have cleaned them as carefully as can be, grind them up, sprinkling them with fresh water so that they do not make oil. And if you want the best, add as much finest sugar as almonds. When all this has been well ground and dissolved in rosewater...]; this time, it should be formed like rolls and cooked in the oven as I said before, with a gentle flame. [end of original] pastry: 2 c flour 1/4 c sugar 2 t rosewater + ~10 T water filling: 3/4 c almonds, soaked 1/2 c sugar 1 t rosewater + 2-3 t water Mix pastry ingredients and knead to a dry but not stiff dough. Divide in half, roll each half out to about 12" across. Coarsely grind the filling together. Spread thinly onto pastry, leaving 1/2" margin around the edges, and roll up like a jelly roll; seal seams tightly to avoid leakage. Bake 40 minutes at 350°. Slice when warm; crumbles when cool. This makes two rolls about 12 inches long. Best when fresh; they dry out by the next day. Elizabeth/Betty Cook Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 13:45:52 +0000 From: nickiandme at att.net Subject: [Sca-cooks] Help please... To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org (Group-SCACooks) > From Helwyse's translation and web site: LVIII Marvelous and good walnut bread If you want to make a bread of walnuts. Take walnuts and peel and grind them, and take good herbs, a little grated suet, sweet and strong spices and a little sugar. Put these in a mortar with the walnuts and make a paste. Then take wheat flour and make a sheet in the way (that one makes) lasagna, large and wide and thin. Put this (nut) paste within and knead all this together in the same way that one makes bread. Take the dough, when it has become soft like a cake, and put it to cook in the oven, and when it is cooked pull it out and let it cool. I gave this my first shot - paste: 1 cup finely chopped walnuts 1 2 cup lard 2 tablespoons dried Herbs d'Coeur (local blend of herbs - sage, fennel, chives, parsley, oregano, rosemary, thyme, winter and summer savory) 1 tablespoon - spice mix (local blend - ground ginger, nutmeg, cubebs, cinnamon, mace) 1/ 4 cup Moscovo sugar (strong molasses flavor - very dark almost black in color) dough: 3 cups flour (I use unbleached flour) 3 / 4 cup warm water I kneaded the dough then added the paste and kneaded that in. It was a very heavy dense dough. Because there was no yeast - I made a fairly flat round loaf - no more than inch and a half tall in the middle. I baked it at 350 for an hour. The middle still wasn't done - but there was a nice tasty crust all around the outside. The flavor was vry nice - a touch sweet but not overwhelming. Not graham sweet but halfway between a nice rye cracker and graham cracker sweet. Next time, (tomorrow night actually), I am going to try rolling it out more like a graham cracker crust and bake for 20 -30 minutes. In re-reading the recipe and listening to Lyse's opinion - should I instead try rolling the dough out and then spreading the paste on and trying to press it into the dough - so that it is more of a cracker type layer with an embedded upper layer of walnuts? I had read the knead part to mean mix it all together. Opinions please? Kateryn de Develyn Residing this day in the Barony of Coeur d'Ennui Kingdom of Calontir Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 09:57:15 -0500 From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" Subect: Re: [Sca-cooks] Help please... To: Cooks within the SCA Also sprach nickiandme at att.net: > I kneaded the dough hen added the paste and kneaded that in. It > was a very heavy dense dough. Because there was no yeast - I made a > fairly flat round loaf - no more than inch and a half tall in the > middle. > I baked it at 350 for an hour. The middle still wasn't don - but > there was a nice tasty crust all around the outside. The flavor was > very nice - a touch sweet but not overwhelming. Not graham sweet > but halfway between a nice rye cracker and graham cracker sweet. > > Next time, (tomorrow night actually), am going to try rolling it > out more like a graham cracker crust and bake for 20 - 30 minutes. > > In re-reading the recipe and listening to Lyse's opinion - should I > instead try rolling the dough out and then spreading the paste on > and trying to prss it into the dough - so that it is more of a > cracker type layer with an embedded upper layer of walnuts? I had > read the knead part to mean mix it all together. > > Opinions please? Yeah, the recipe says to make it wide and thin like lasagne. I think what we're looking at is essentially a strudel. Some bread recipes speak today of rolling or stretching out the dough and rolling it up to form a loaf, so I don't know if this is a translator's issue in using the word "knead" to describe the forming process, or what. But my guess is, you make a thin sheet of dough, spread on the filling, roll it up and then form the cylinder into a crown shape, a circle, a knot, or leave as is, and bake. Note also that the recipe seems to specify a gluten rest between the forming and the baking... Adamantius Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 12:09:45 -0600 From: "Terry Decker" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Help please... To: "Cooks within the SCA" From reading this, I would say 1) the dough is worked until the gluten begins to break down, 2) you can probably come closer to the flour being used by using a 2 to 1 mix of all purpose and cake flour, 3) the dough may be folded and rolled as is done with puff pastry, 4) if you kneaded it together into a standard loaf, increase your oven temperature to 400-425 and bake for approximately 45 minutes, 5) if doing item 4, you may need to cover the loaf 20 to 30 minutes into the baking to keep the crust from getting too dark. Bear Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 12:45:56 -0800 (PST) From: Louise Smithson Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Help please... To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org --- "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" wrote: > Yeah, the recipe says to make it wide and thin like lasagne. I think > what we're looking at is essentially a strudel. Some bread recipes > speak today of rolling or stretching out the dough and rolling it up > to form a loaf, so I don't know if this is a translator's issue in > using the word "knead" to describe the forming process, or what. But > my guess is, you make a thin sheet of dough, spread on the filling, > roll it up and then form the cylinder into a crown shape, a circle, a > knot, or leave as is, and bake. Note also that the recipe seems to > specify a gluten rest between the forming and the baking... > > Adamantius Perhaps the reference to "Put this(nut) paste within and knead all this together in the same way that one makes bread" actually indicates that the original author was allowing the dough to spontaneously ferment (i.e. wild yeast)?? The next reference seems to indicate that some kind of leavening is taking place... "Take the dough, when it has become soft like a cake, and put it to cook in the oven." Adamanatius may be correct about this referring to a protein or gluten rest, since the author does not mention anything about allowing the dough to 'sour', 'rise' or anything else. Just another thought. William de Grandfort <<< Either could be viable. In later books there are thin pastries with layers of nuts/fruit rolled up in them. There are also rich raised breads. The problem is with the libro di cucina is that in many places you are left guessing what was done next. You can play track the ingredient and sometimes they are only mentioned once, when it is what you should have on hand. You can be told to have almonds, and the next time you see them they are being used as almond milk, with no intermediary step described. Some recipes call for the addition of a "levito" or sour dough raising agent, some don't but do ask you to let it raise. So again we are left with a fudge factor. So either a thin rolled dough with filling between the layers (ala Baklava or later pizza recipes) or a raised dough (yeast raise). Could be possible from this recipe. That is the nature of the early period recipes, there is more than one possibility. Helewyse ps I double checked the Italian it calls for you to "e miti questo batuto suso, e muolzilo tuto insembre e falo a modo de uno pane". I.e. put this paste within and mix everything together in the way of a bread. Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 14:40:27 +0000 From: nickiandme at att.net Subject: [Sca-cooks] Walnut Bread Recipe redux To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org (Group-SCACooks), CalontirCooksGuild at yahoogroups.com (Group-CCooks) Okay - tried it a second time last night- keeping in mind all of the suggestions given over the past few days. I made the dough a little stiffer (less water), added a pinch of yeast to simulate wild yeasties getting into my mix. I rolled the dough out to about a quarter inch in thickness and then smeared (okay, layered) the walnut paste on top and pressed down to embed it into the dough somewhat. Then I allowed it to sit near my warm stove for and hour and a half - at which time I baked it for 20 minutes at 350 degrees. The result was a bit chewy. I think working the dough to get the gluten will change the texture significantly. The topping was fantastic. I can see where if I used butter it would carmelize more than the lard or criso will and end up not crumbling all over my clothes. But, the flavor was excellent. Reminded me of being a kid and making those graham squares fancied up - you know, brown sugar and butter spread on the cracker, and a few chopped nuts sprinkled on top - popped into the oven and broiled for five minutes. A simple taste treat for kids and adults with a sweet tooth. Anyway, tonight is the final run for Cassandra's Laurel Vigil on Saturday (I will be spending a good portion of Friday traveling (7 hrs). ) I think I would like to switch to unsweetened/unsalted butter for the paste instead of Criso - to get more of a carmalized glazing from the paste when cooked - if this would not violate her vegetarian practices. And definitely cut down on the thickness of the paste that I spread on the dough. Otherwise I will keep the proportions of the spices I used as is. I am making this using muscovo sugar instead of white sugar. This is an almost black very moist sugar - strongly flavored of molasses. I think this adds to the flavor combination tremendously. I am becoming most enamored with this sugar and am considering looking for where it might be sold in larger quantities than the 1 pound bags. And yes - the final result when cooked - strongly reminded me of baklava. So, I have a another question - would it be taking the adaption of the recipe too far if I rolled the dough out thinner, and then added the paste and folded it over and pressed down a bit? So that I ended up with a layered lasagne/baklava effect? Kateryn Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 16:45:59 +0000 From: nickiandme at att.net Subject: [Sca-cooks] Final Result Walnut Bread o: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org (Group-SCACooks), CalontirCooksGuild at yahoogroups.com (Group-CCooks) I finished the bread. It tasted very good. Appearance could have been improved - but I ran into transportation problems so they were stuffed into a bag and not carried in a loving manner in nice layers in a box/pan. LVIII Marvelous and good walnut bread (taken from Helwyse's site) If you want to make a bread of walnuts. Take walnuts and peel and grind them, and take good herbs, a little grated suet, sweet and strong spices and a little sugar. Put these in a mortar with the walnuts and make a paste. Then take wheat flour and make a sheet in the way (that one makes) lasagna, large and wide and thin. Put this (nut) paste within and knead all this together in the same way that one makes bread. Take the dough, when it has become soft like a cake, and put it to cookin the oven, and when it is cooked pull it out and let it cool. Final Recipe: 1 cup finely chopped nuts 1 / 2 cup butter 2 tablespoons dried herbs (sage, fennel, chives, parsley, oregano, rosemary, thyme, winter/summer savories) 1 tablespoon spice mix ground ginger, grains of paradise, cubeb, nutmeg, cinnamon, mace) 1 / 2 cup muscovo sugar (black sugar - strong molasses flavor) 3 cups flour 1 cup warm water (or less if flour is less dry) 1 teaspoon of yeast 1 / 2 teaspoon salt Proof yeast, add to four with warm water, salt. Knead as you would bread. Then divide and roll out to approx 1/4 inch thickness. Place on baking sheet. Roll out other half and place on another baking sheet. Mix rest of ingredients into a paste. Divide into half. Smear half on each baking sheet - making sure to cover entire surface of dough. Press in using fingers to slightly knead into the dough. Allow to rise for approx 2 - 3 hours. Bake at 350 for 20 - 25 minutes. Remove from pan immediately or at lest run a spatula all around underneath to ensure it is not stuck. Cut with pizza cutter into squares when cool. NOTES: Use lipped baking sheets. The butter/sugar combo will melt, spread and drip. I ended up adding the yeast to get a slight rise and reduce the total chewiness factor. This result was still chewy - but not until your jaw ached. Flavor was excellent. Using a white sugar would change the appearance/flavor. If doing this again I might consider trying to lay one layer on top of anther and then baking it. So that you would have more of a layered bread - sweet sandwich type of thing. I would like to try this with kumut or oat flour to play with the flavor/texture differences in the future. And perhaps with semolina flour - as the recipe did state to prepare it like a lasagna noodle. Kateryn de Develyn Residing in the Barony of Coeur d'Ennui Kingdom of Calontir Edited by Mark S. Harris pastry-logs-msg 11 of 11