confctny-boxs-msg - 6/27/07 Period confectionary boxes. NOTE: See also the files: marzipan-msg, marmalades-msg, pastries-msg, comfits-msg, jellied-milk-msg, shortbread-msg, sugar-paste-msg, Roses-a-Sugar-art, Sgr-a-Cnftns-art, sugar-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 09:59:32 +0200 From: Volker Bach Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] marzipan boxes To: Cooks within the SCA Am Samstag, 10. September 2005 07:42 schrieb Stefan li Rous: > Johnnae mentioned: >> I was doing an image search today and came across this one >> http://www.nga.gov/cgi-bin/pinfo?Object=45891+0+none >> >> It's too good to pass up and it's easy to get to since it's in the >> National Gallery of Art. There are a number of detail images too. >> >> Still Life with Sweets and Pottery, 1627 by Juan van der Hamen >> >> Doughnuts anyone? > > The review of the painting mentioned marzipan boxes. Which ones are > these? The round, very thin ones with tops? To me, those look very > much like the boxes you can buy in the hobby stores made out of very > thin wood. They look more like these in the painting are made of thin > wood, not marzipan. Or by "marzipan boxes" is the reviewer talking > about boxes made to hold marzipan items rather than that the boxes > are made of marzipan? > > If the latter, what makes these particular boxes "marzipan boxes"? Do > we have other period (or close to period) texts which mention > "marzipan boxes"? I don't know why they are called 'marzipan boxes' specifically in English, but they are a common feature of late period still lives and often hold sweets of various description. Even 'Confect', which, according to de Rontzier, is a kind of chunky, supersweet jam. I've used them for the purpose and it works, most of the time. German texts usually refer to them as 'Spanschachteln' (wood shavings boxes) for the material they are made of, or, if painted, 'Minnekästchen' (courtly love boxes) because they used to be used for holding love token gifts. Sometimes they are also called 'Konfektschachteln' (confit boxes). As an aside, today they are most familiar here because the better kind of Camembert comes in them. More than one person who got one from me reacted with a startled "But I don't like mouldy cheese" look. Giano Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 08:24:11 -0400 From: "Elise Fleming" Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Marzipan Boxes To: "sca-cooks at ansteorra.org" Stefan wrote, regarding the online painting: > The review of the painting mentioned marzipan boxes. Which ones are > these? The round, very thin ones with tops? To me, those look very > much like the boxes you can buy in the hobby stores made out of very > thin wood. They look more like these in the painting are made of thin > wood, not marzipan. Or by "marzipan boxes" is the reviewer talking > about boxes made to hold marzipan items rather than that the boxes > are made of marzipan? The boxes in the painting are wood and yes, they are pretty close to the "Amish" boxes one can find in hobby and craft stores. The reviewer probably means that the box would hold marzipan. Usually the reference is to holding quiddony/quince paste/cotinignac, etc., or one of the "solid" jellies. > If the latter, what makes these particular boxes "marzipan boxes"? Do > we have other period (or close to period) texts which mention > "marzipan boxes"? I don't recall seeing the term "marzipan box" but references may well have said something like "and keep them in boxes ..." I usually have seen that reference to the fruit pastes which keep for months. Would others agree with my "off the cuff" supposition that marzipan items were made to be eaten rather soon as compared to the fruit pastes? Perhaps the reviewer extrapolated modern packaging use back to the 1600s?? Alys Katharine Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 15:01:13 -0400 From: Johnna Holloway Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] marzipan boxes To: Cooks within the SCA I rather suspect that someplace in that long, long list of printed references and source materials, an art historian mentioned marzipan boxes and that is why the National Gallery of Art latched upon that phrase. They look like preserve boxes to me also. Johnnae Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 10:57:54 -0400 From: Johnna Holloway Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] sweetmeat boxes was marzipan boxes To: Cooks within the SCA http://www.mfa.org/collections/search_art.asp?coll_keywords=still+life +with+sweetmeats&submit.x=8&submit.y=8 shows a Still Life with Sweetmeats Note the contents of the boxes which are open to display. Click on the image to get it to display larger. I have seen this identified as another by Juan van der Hamen, but it's Listed here as anonymous. It's also at http://www.davidrumsey.com/amico/amico967048-21370.html Johnnae > http://www.nga.gov/cgi-bin/pinfo?Object=45891+0+none Still Life with Sweets and Pottery, 1627 by Juan van der Hamen Johnnae Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 12:31:48 -0500 From: "Elise Fleming" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Fruit Paste - Boxes! To: "sca-cooks at ansteorra.org" Greetings! Two people mentioned the lack of "period" fruit paste boxes. Some of the craft stores (such as Michael's) sell thin wooden boxes that look very period. They are usually round or oval and look like what I've known as "Amish boxes". They come with lids and are unpainted. From what I've seen in Dutch paintings of pastes in boxes, these are virtually identical although they may be less sturdy than the painted ones seem to be. The modern ones are thin wood which is wrapped around and then the end is tucked into the section it's overlapping. Sometimes a small metal (stud?) is used. They aren't particularly cheap and the bigger ones become increasingly more expensive ($10?) but should work if you want something for display. Alys Katharine Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 19:06:26 +0000 From: "Holly Stockley" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Fruit Paste - Boxes! To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org I've actually used those. Michael's has had the 4" ones on sale for real cheap. But I've gotten an off flavor, and it makes me worry a little about hot sugar paste in contact with a non-foodsafe adhesive. Anybody know anything about woodworking adhesives in these sorts of situations? Femke > Some of the craft stores (such as Michael's) sell thin wooden boxes that > look very period. They are usually round or oval and look like what I've > known as "Amish boxes". > Alys Katharine Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 11:40:24 -0800 From: Mark Hendershott Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Fruit Paste - Boxes! To: Cooks within the SCA > I've actually used those. Michael's has had the 4" ones on sale for real > cheap. But I've gotten an off flavor, and it makes me worry a little about > hot sugar paste in contact with a non-foodsafe adhesive. Anybody know > anything about woodworking adhesives in these sorts of situations? > > Femke Fully cured adhesives commonly used for wood should not be big problem. A food safe coating inside should ease the problem as well as aid in release of the product. Olive or mineral oil would get the job done I would think. I'd sand lightly first in case the manufacturer used something that is giving you the taste. Simon Sinneghe Briaroak, Summits, An Tir Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 11:49:27 -0800 From: Mark Hendershott Subject: [Sca-cooks] Michael's boxes To: Cooks within the SCA Amending my earlier response. A brief session with "The Google" suggests that non-formaldehyde glues commonly available to home woodworkers are safe. Considering that Michael's almost certainly imports those boxes, who knows what was used. Simon Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 13:33:47 -0800 (PST) From: Carole Smith Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Fruit Paste - Boxes! To: Cooks within the SCA Unfinished wood can give an off taste to food that is contained in it. After it's been used a bit that issue will go away because the pores of the wood take up some of the food flavor. This isn't helpful in the short term, however. If the inside of the wood box was first coated with a thin layer of parafin, I suspect that would work just fine and not add any flavor, assuming that the fruit paste was warm rather than hot when put in the box. Cordelia Toser Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 17:13:42 -0700 From: "Caointiarn" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Fruit Paste...storage To: "Cooks within the SCA" > . So, uh, what do people recommend as "air tight containers"? > Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM) > the persona formerly known as Anahita How about cookie tins? I get mine at the nearby "rescue mission" aka 2nd hand/thrift store. I collect them for gifts, coz then the outside is already pretty {decorated}. They clean out well, and with tight fitting lids are pretty air-tight. Caointiarn Edited by Mark S. Harris confctny-boxs-msg Page 5 of 5