chocolate-msg - 2/29/08 History and description of early chocolate. NOTE: See also the files: desserts-msg, candy-msg, cookies-msg, gingerbread-msg, sugar-msg, sugar-paste-msg, Sugarplums-art, Roses-a-Sugar-art, peppers-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: marian at world.std.com (marian walke) Subject: Re: hot chocolate Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA Date: Sun, 10 Apr 1994 01:46:01 GMT Phyllis_Gilmore at rand.org (Phyllis Gilmore) writes: >(Andrea Marie Habura) wrote: >>Yes, mole sauce is made with unsweetened chocolate. I am not particularly >>fond of it, but my husband thinks it's dynamite with chicken, so I make >>it occasionally. I think it tastes better the more chili peppers you >>put in. I very much doubt it's period. >> >Actually, Alison, I too doubt it's period. I was really only hoping to >confirm that this sauce is an example of a combination of chocolate and >chili peppers--which you and others have done. Actually, Phyllis and Alison, it appears to be just barely in period, if you think period goes to 1650, and if you're refering to the Iberian penisula. The following is a quote from _Food_in_History_ by Reay Tannahill (New York: Stein and Day, 1973), pp 287-289: "In Spain by 1631, the preparation of a cup of chocoalate had become a major operation. 'For every hundred cocoa beans, mix two pods of chili or Mexican pepper...or, failing those, two Indian peppercorns, a handful of aniseed, two of those flowers known as "little ears" or *vinacaxtlides,* and two of those known as *mesasuchil*...Instead of the latter one could include the powder of the six roses of Alexaundria [an apothecaries' formula]... a little pod of logwood [a dye], two drachmas of cinnamon, a dozen almonds and as many hazelnuts, half a pound of sugar, and enought arnotto [a dye] to give color to the whole.'" This is footnoted as "Antonio Colmenero, quoted in Franklin, Vol XIII, pp. 161-162." By Franklin, she means Alfred Franklin, _Vie_privee_d'autrefois,..._12e_au_18e_siecles. (27 vol. Paris, 1887-1902). Vol XIII is titled: "Le cafe, le the, et le chocolat." [Francophiles, forgive me, I don't know how to make the accents correctly without my ASCII cheatsheet handy.] Antonio Colmenero wrote a book on "On chocolate" which was first published in Madrid (in Spanish) in 1631. By the end of the 17th century it had been translated and published in French, Italian, and English. I don't remember the exact dates and titles of the translations, but I can look them up if anyone really cares. Tannahill goes on to say that "by the early seventeenth century, a considerable amount of chocolate paste was being exported to Italy and Flanders, but it was not until 1659 that the new drink became widely known in France." This may be more than anyone *really* wants to know about drinking hot chocolate in period...but you *did* ask... --Old Marian (marian at world.std.com) From: ddfr at best.com (David Friedman) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Chocolate (was Re: bu Date: 25 Apr 1996 05:31:11 GMT > I had heard Mistress Alys Katherine from the Middle Kingdom say that she had > a recipie for chocolate marzipan that was done in period. > > Mistress Alys are you out there??? > > Juelda > Calontir I'm not Alys Katherine, but in case she doesn't pick up on this ... . I suspect what you are remembering is a reference by her to one of the recipes in the modern Italian secondary source that I mentioned earlier in the thread. I think (my Italian is not very good) that it is claiming its chocolate recipes are fifteenth century, which is pretty nearly impossible. My own guess is that the recipes are either badly misdated (they are said to be from the archives of one of the Italian cities, and, as I remember, there are no exact dates given) or mistranslated, with some other term converted into the modern Italian for chocolate. But I could be wrong. David/Cariadoc -- ddfr at best.com From: alysk at ix.netcom.com(Elise Fleming ) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Chocolate (was Re: bu Date: 25 Apr 1996 22:12:34 GMT >I had heard Mistress Alys Katherine from the Middle Kingdom say that >she had a recipie for chocolate marzipan that was done in period. > >Mistress Alys are you out there??? > >Juelda >Calontir Yes, I'm here, and I thought I was doing a nice job of staying out of this thread! :-) I have three purportedly period recipes using chocolate mixed with sugar. One is chocolate mixed with sugar, marzipan, and cinnamon into something like a cookie. (Delicious!) Another is a chocolate and pear tart, if I recall correctly. The third mixes chocolate, sugar, cinnamon and boils it before using it with a (cookie?) dough. These were printed in a modern Italian book on Renaissance cooking, and were implied to be from the early 1500s. David Friedman referred to this book in an earlier post. The source is the "Carta (sp?) Bardi II" in the archives in Florence, Italy. The finder of the source is an Australian baroness who was a PhD candidate in Italy a few years ago. While we began a brief correspondence, she stopped early on and never answered any information about the dates of the Carte Bardi manuscripts. In the modern book all of the other manuscripts have dates except this one. I posted two, I believe, of the recipes when a similar thread ran about 9 months ago. I have the material in a "text only" file so I can send the marzipan one, at least, to anyone interested. I also have a file for the "Mayan" recipe which should probably read "Aztec." It works out to something like a gingerbread. Baroness Annejke, the Compleat Anachronist editor, gave me a copy of the recipe. If interested, e-mail me and I will send it/them. I am _really_ interested to see what "justin at dsd.camb.inme" has! Alys Katharine From: justin at harp.camb.inmet.COM (Mark Waks) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Chocolate Date: 9 Sep 1996 11:28:09 -0400 Cindy Renfrow replies to Cariadoc: >> More precisely, the evidence (so far as I know it) suggests that chocolate >> as food was not known anywhere in the old world pre 1650. I also don't >> think that any chocolate drink much like what we call cocoa existed >> anywhere pre 1650, although I am less sure about that. > >Hello! Please check out http://www.inmet.com/~justin/chocolate.txt >He's posted a partial MS from 1652 with recipes for sweetened chocolate. [Published book, not MS, actually.] Well, it should be pointed out that the cocoa recipe there is *quite* different from modern cocoa, so people shouldn't draw over-broad conclusions from it -- I think that that's what Cariadoc means when he says that there wasn't anything "much like" modern cocoa. And while it does indicate that sweetened hard chocolate was *known* to Europe, it's not entirely clear that it was actually *used* there. The evidence is still pretty inconclusive, I'd say, although not as negative as often portrayed. BTW, I've just recently stumbled across a 1640 English edition of the same book. (Unfortunately, the microfilm reader broke at just that moment, so I only have the title page, but I plan on getting the whole book shortly.) So I now have more confidence that the period version of hot chocolate was more-or-less popularly known in England by 1650, although probably still pretty expensive... -- Justin From: gswitzer at loop.com Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Chocolate & Authenticity Date: 9 Sep 1996 06:37:28 GMT I haven't found a copy yet, but I read a review of a new book entitled: "The True History of Chocolate" by Sophie D. Coe and Michael D. Coe (Thames and Hudson: $27.50, 288 pp.) in the August 25th LA Times Book Review Section that might just finally answer the question once and for all. But then again, is any question on rec.org.sca ever answered once and for all? :) Ishido Matsukage From: Darlene Mielke <mielke at interlog.com> Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Chocolate & Authenticity Date: 10 Sep 1996 04:40:43 GMT natalyadef at aol.com (NatalyaDeF) wrote: > Forgive me for jumping into the middle of things, but my understanding of > authenticity is that "it" had to be in existence and in use before 1650 > (yes, I'm one of THOSE). So, if some nobles in France, England, or Spain > were drinking the bitter stuff, it is authentic. I don't recall anywhere > in SCA law that someone (real) had to declare it fashionable. On the > other hand, neither does this give us license to add sugar, serve it as > dessert, and declare it authentic. -- Natalya de Foix I just love this one. I've found several references to chocolate/cocoa, when it came to Europe from the New World, and although I haven't (yet) found a recipe, apparently there were 2 versions of a drink used by the natives of Mexico: one being hot and spiced with chillies, and another which was sweetened (and much preferred by the Europeans). Spain, and parts of Italy (Naples comes to mind as it was a Spanish holding for a time) would have been aware of these drinks. England and her allies would not really become knowledgeable of these (as well as the tomatillo, , the potato - specifically the sweet potato, and even the predecessor of coffee) until much later - Spain would not be willing to share her 'finds' with the enemy you know. True, serving chocolate, or any of the above mentioned items, in forms known and loved today is not 'period', but the hunt goes on for the early (earliest) forms of them. Which, I believe is one of the things the SCA is all about. Saludos, Mercedes Heloise d'Abelard From: ottokarvs at aol.com (Ottokar vS) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Chocolate & Authenticity Date: 10 Oct 1996 04:12:31 -0400 I have come accross a book that gives a 1631 recipe for drinking chocolate. The recipe is by Antonio Colmenero who states that he got it from a physician in Marchena. It calls for "of white sugar, one pound and a halfe" and yes "of long red pepper 14". The book also notes that Spain and Italy were the first to accept the drinking of cocoa. Cortes has the basic honor in approximately 1520-1530 of introducing the Spanish courts to this drink, who tried to keep chocolate a secret for as long as possible. The book is "Chocolate, the Food of the Gods" by Chantal Coady Chronicle Books, CA Copyright 1993 This book has several primary and secondary references listed in the bibliography ranging from 1640 to 1987. Ottokar von dem Schwarzwald From: ottokarvs at aol.com (Ottokar vS) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: CHOCOLATE Date: 26 Oct 1996 06:36:48 -0400 EHAV at oro.net (Eric S. Haverberg) wrote: > Not too long ago, someone was kind enough to post a recipe for an > Aztec Cocoa beverage. All I remember was that it contained Cocoa and > some kind of Chile extract. If anyone has it, I'd appreciate very > much. I here is the recipe I have from 1631 published by Antonio Colmenero who had taken it from a Marchena physician; 700 cocoa beans 1 1/2 lbs. white sugar 2 ozs of cinnamon 14 long red peppers 1/2 oz of clove 3 cods of logwood or Campeche tree - similar to fennell or instead use the weight of 2 reals (or a shilling) of anniseeds as much Achiote to give it the color of hazelnut I don't know what some of these measurements are so I will leave that up to some one more knowledgable then I. I should also note that cornmeal was usually added to absorb the oil of the cocoa bean and to bind it all together. Also this would be made up into solid blocks so that when there was a feast these blocks would just be added to the water at that time instead of making it that day. This would be served cold. You can find some of this information in "Chocolate, the Food of the Gods" by Chantal Coady, 1993 Ottokar von dem Schwartwald, AoA Shire of Blackhawk Middle Kingdom From: OttokarvS at aol.com To: markh at risc.sps.mot.com Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 01:18:43 -0500 Subject: Re: CHOCOLATE Greetings Lord Stefan, Here is the information you requested. A Curious Treatise of the Nature and Quality of Chocolate Antonio Colmenero publisher(?) J. Oakes 1640 Note since I have not seen this book first hand, that I can only assume that Chantal Coady has noted an earlier date on this book then what was given above. Some other reference given by Coady are; A New Survey of the West Indies Thomas Gage, 1648 Note that the author for this reference had been smuggled into New Spain in a bisuit barrel because only the Spaniards were allowed in at that time. The Indian Nectar Henry Stubbe publisher Andrew Crook, 1662 Ottokar von dem Schwartwald, AoA Shire of Blackhawk Middle Kingdom From: "H. R. Haines" <"Phrhaines at hrhaines" at mail.interlog.com> Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Chocolate Reference Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 17:34:42 -0800 I remember a while ago there was a discussion over the "periodness" of chocolate. In my other studies I recently came across the following reference for anyone still interested in the subject. Relaciones de Yucatan, Coleccion de documentos ineditos relativos al descubriemiento conquisto y organizacion de las antiquas posesiones espanoles de ultramar, 2nd series, v 11-13. Madrid 1898-1900. v. 1 pp 369, 373 Records that in 1579 the Zoque (cultural group in Aztec Empire) were forced to include cacao in their tribute payments to the Spanish, for the purpose of export to Spain. Sincerely, H. R. Haines Institute of Archaeology From: gray at ibis.cs.umass.edu (Lyle Gray) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Chocolate Reference Date: 20 Feb 1997 21:38:14 GMT Organization: CMPSCI Department, UMass Amherst My wife was doing a search in the local college library catalog, and came across this book. Note the last comedy title. Five comedies of Medieval France - Contents: The comic drama in the middle ages, by Oscar Mandel/ The play of Saint Nicholas, by Jean Bodel /The Play of Robin and Marion, by Adam de la Halle / Peter Quill's Shenanigans, by Anonymous/ The Washtub, by Anonymous /The Chicken-pie and the Chocolate Cake, by Anon (French drama to 1500) PQ1342.E5 F58 1982 I'm going to take a look at this book tonight. It may just be that the translator substituted a modern equivalent... ;-) ------------------------------------------------------ NON ANIMAM CONTINE Lyle H. Gray gray at cs.umass.edu (text only) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Barbara L. Hunter" <ami at prostar.com> Subject: Re: Chocolate Reference Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Date: 20 Feb 97 17:22:23 GMT > > cacao in their tribute payments to the Spanish, for the purpose of > export to Spain. > > But how was it prepared and consumed once in Spain? > One refernce I have is from a book called California Mission Recieps...it lists how drink of cocoa was prepared. You ground up your cocoa bean in a mortar and pestal and added it to boiling warer...different spices were added like cinnamon....(I don't have the reference here at the moment.) and others....Europeans added honey to it because it was so bitter...I have also found references to this effect in a few other books dealing with 16th century Spain. Thanks Barbara From: nc-kk at Sun.COM (Kevin Kellog) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: mail order cocoa bean web sites (was: Re: Chocolate Reference) Date: 21 Feb 1997 23:21:02 GMT Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., San Diego CA, USA Bruce Mills (millsbn at mcmail.cis.McMaster.CA) wrote: : Where can one get cocoa beans? I haven't been able to find any up here : in the Great White North. Try <URL: http://www.staarcom.com/cocoa>, <URL: http:// urgento.gse.rmit.edu.au:80/untpdc/news/eto/africa/>, <URL: http:// www.cbn.com.sg/ascii/search/data/C310.html>, or <URL: http:// ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/quetzal/> Avenel Kellough From: jesst2+ at pitt.edu (Julia E Smith) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Chocolate Reference Date: 24 Feb 1997 15:43:42 GMT Organization: University of Pittsburgh Anyone interested in chocolate, in period or not, ought to read: Sophie Coe 1996 (I think) _The True History of Chocolate_. The author has a PhD in Mesoamerican anthropology and was (she is recently deceased, I believe) married to Michael Coe (a very well known archaeologist who works on the ancient Maya). It is a superb book, giving translations of several recipes and descriptions (for those of you who don't read Nahuatl, Spanish, Italian, etc.) as well as the references to the originals for those who do. It also has a great bibliography of 16th and 17th century stuff. You won't regret it. Juliana de Luna Julia Smith jesst2+ at pitt.edu From: plburton at mail.goodnet.com (Sue Thing) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Chocolate Reference Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 20:43:39 GMT-7 Chocolate was introduced into Spain in 1520. The cocoa beans were roasted and ground, then mixed with sugar (Cortez had extensive sugar plantations at Cuernevaca), cinnamon, and vanilla, and formed into tablets. The tablets were then mixed with hot water to form a thick liquid, which was then frothed with the *molinillo* -- a wooden whisk with an artichoke-shaped end piece and diamond-shaped spikes. Modern versions of the *molinillo* are found in Mexico to this day, as are chocolate tablets. When chocolate was introduced into the French court at the end of the 16th century, the French decided to make the drink with milk instead of water. (Information from _The Heritage of Spanish Cooking_ Rios and March, 1992) Clea Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 09:30:43 -0500 (CDT) From: "J. Patrick Hughes" <jphughes at raven.cc.ukans.edu> To: sca-arts at listproc.cc.ukans.edu Subject: Re: Request for Chocolate Help (fwd) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 07:03:53 -0600 (CST) From: Julia Smith <julias at cariari.ucr.ac.cr> To: "J. Patrick Hughes" <jphughes at raven.cc.ukans.edu> Subject: Re: Request for Chocolate Help (fwd) On Mon, 28 Apr 1997, J. Patrick Hughes wrote: > Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 11:39:29 -0600 > From: Jennifer Edwards-Ring <jener at macomb.com> > To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu > Subject: Re: Request for Chocolate Help (fwd) > > >There is a lovely book: > >Coe, Sophie > >1995 The True History of Chocolate. Put out by some university press. > > Sophie Coe is one of the best researchers into Aztec and New World culture. > Her stuff is excellent. Unfortunately, Sophie Coe *was* one of the best researchers into New World cuisine. If you read the introduction to _The True History_, you will discover that she did not survive long enough for it to see the light. > >This book has an extensive collection of information about early uses of > >chocolate, as well as some recipes. But for a quick set of comments: > > - sugar seems to have come into use quickly by Europeans (the > > Aztecs drank it as a spicy drink rather than a sweet one) > > They usually added chili and ground corn to the mixture, sometime vanilla > flowers or other flowers. Sometimes honey was added to make it sweeter. I'm > assuming it was just a matter of taste. They also added several other things, including some funguses. What's your basis for the assertion that they used the flowers of vanilla rather than the beans? > > - use water, not milk as a base > The Aztecs had no milk. Of course. However the combination of chocolate and milk is really late (like 19th century!). > > - use baking chocolate, which has cocoa butter, rather than cocoa > > Good suggestion, processed cocoa has much of the fat taken out. > > > - make it frothy (beat it well -- the Aztecs did it by pouring it > > back and forth between two cups, but the Europeans quickly started > > using those Mexican chocolate stirrers) > > This is essential. > > >One final curious note (your post made me think about it): there are some > >early descriptions of parties in colonial Mexico which state that > >chocolate was served *to the women*, with the implication that the men > >were drinking alcohol instead. So, I find it interesting that your > >Chocolate House was where the governor's wife entertained. This was not > >true in Europe; several Baroque (and maybe earlier) recipes are attributed > >to noblemen. > > This is interesting because in the Aztec world, chocolatl was only served > to men. Women ate separately from the men and had their own special drink. Isn't it though? Juliana de Luna Julia Smith julias at cariari.ucr.ac.cr in exile in that land that Columbus mistakenly named Costa Rica From: "Marisa Herzog" <marisa_herzog at macmail.ucsc.edu> Date: 16 Jun 1997 12:09:14 -0700 Subject: Re: SC - chocolate "mexican chocolate" is a brick made of chocolate, ground almonds, spice (sometimes hot) and sugar, that you smash or grind the heck out of and then beat into hot water or milk- absolutely nothing like Hershey's or Quick, and not nearly as sweet also. From: nweders at mail.utexas.edu (ND Wederstrandt) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 15:21:27 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: SC - chocolate The best brand of Mexican chocalate that I like is Abuelita's and don't forget your molina to whip it up. If anyone lives where you cannot find it send me your address and I will send you some. Mexican chocalate is really good on a cold day. I read some where that the Spaniards drank it without milk, they just added water and that it was not sweetened or sweetened much. I have also read where chocalate was sometimes mixed with cornmeal and served that way. I have also had it with hot milk and beaten egg. I can't remember where maybe Diana Kennedy's books. Clare St. John From: "Sue Wensel" <swensel at brandegee.lm.com> Date: 17 Jun 1997 09:29:34 -0500 Subject: Re(2): SC - chocolate If you can't get Mexican chocolate bricks (which really are wonderful), then get some *unsweetened* baking chocolate. Nestle makes 100% pure chocolate -- not cocoa, not cocoa butter: chocolate! I put enough chocolate in a pot of boiling water to make it slightly thinner than hot cocoa. Add cinnamon, a touch of jalapeno, voila. It's also good by itself, no spices. Derdriu From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 19:22:53 -0400 Subject: Re: Re(2)- SC - chocolate > Why jalapeno? From what little I've read, which doesn't include the originals, > they seem to be talking about chili peppers, not jalapenos. They don't taste > the same. > > Stefan li Rous Jalapenos are the only chili some people know [not intended as a comment on Derdriu, who I doubt has this problem with recognition] and perhaps the interpretation of chili or red pepper got distorted from primary to secondary, or tertiary, source. My money would be on serrano chilies, chiles anchos, or, for the truly psychotic, chipotles. This in spite of the fact that chipotles are a form of jalapenos, anyway. All of the above would presumably have been dried for such usage, and then ground. Adamantius From: justin at inmet.COM (Mark Waks) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Chocolate Date: 14 Jul 1997 15:47:32 -0400 Ranvaig asks: >This cookbook doesn't have any references. Is there a source for this? >Is it true? Could late period, Spanish feasts serve a slightly gritty >chocolate beverage as a delicacy? Does anyone have a recipe? >Where would you get cocoa beans? It's somewhat true, but you have to be careful. "Chocolate", as in hot chocolate, is certainly period, if quite late and exotic. The nobility of Spain had it in the 16th century, and by at least the first half of the 17th century it was spreading more widely. (For those who believe the SCA extends to 1650, chocolate is pretty widespread by the end, albeit still expensive, I believe.) *However*, I'm a bit skeptical about the Godiva descriptions of compounding. I haven't seen any references to vanilla, and all the recipes I have seen are considerably more savory than the description implies. Hot chocolate appears to have typically had a range of spices added, usually including some form of hot pepper. (However, at least by late period, it *was* apparently sweetened.) I have excerpts from an end-of-period English book on hot chocolate, which is a translation of a slightly earlier Spanish work, on the Web at: http://www.inmet.com/~justin/chocolate.txt Take a look at that for a better idea of typical recipes... -- Justin As for where to get cacao beans, I haven't succeeded yet, although I have some hope Subject: ANST - Chocolate Documentation! Date: Fri, 06 Mar 98 17:12:47 MST From: "Mike C. Baker" <kihe at rocketmail.com> To: ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG As I am all too aware due to relatively recent studies, there is a near overwhelming belief in the SCA that that most divine of indulgent foods, to whit CHOCOLATE, is not appropriate to pre-1600 pursuits and must therefore be declared by Royal Whim as permitted or preferred. The following location reproduces a secondary source which brings documentation of chocolate AS A CONFECTION arguably to 1631ce (1652CE English translation of 1631ce Spanish manuscript). In which source, the Dames of Mexico purchase chocolate compounded with sugar as one would any other sweatmeat at shops in the streets. Also includes a range of recipes for the form of drinkable hot chocolate that includes hot red chili pepper): http://www.inmet.com/~justin/chocolate.txt O.K., so even the Spanish manuscript would be in the "grey area" as far as even the A&S documentation standards of several years ago are concerned. But this source does provide pre-18th century European usage of chocolate candy ("Dames of Mexico" presumably being the European colonials and not the peasantry, based upon the titulary usage of the term...) Amra Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 21:57:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Stephen Bloch <sbloch at adl15.adelphi.edu> Subject: Re: SC - Fw: ANST - Chocolate Documentation! Kihe Blackeagle (the Dreamsinger Bard) / Mike C. Baker wrote: > ... has anyone got comments upon a source printed in > 1920, by A.W.Knapp, titled (approx.) _Chocolate and Cocoa_? I've > seen only the reference in Brittanica [1960 ed] that refers to a > multi-page bibliography available in this book so far, would like to > avoid repeating over-trod ground if I can... Not that particular book, but anyone interested in the history of chocolate, as well as coffee, tea, and tobacco, might enjoy _Tastes of Paradise: a Social History of Spices, Stimulants, and Intoxicants_, by Wolfgang Schivelbusch, Pantheon 1992. That's the English translation by David Jacobson; the original German is _Paradies, der Geschmack und die Vernunft_. mar-Joshua ibn-Eleazar ha-Shalib Stephen Bloch Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 19:41:02 -0500 From: "Mark Waks, AKA Justin du Coeur" <justin at intermetrics.com> Subject: SC - Re: Fo: your fame spreads My lady forwarded this to me: Jane Waks wrote: > I am not sure where or when I got this url, but I found it most > interesting.. unfortunately I have not had the time to follow up the > references, has anyone else seen this before and done any background > investigation? > > http://www.inmet.com/~justin/chocolate.txt What sort of background are you looking for? The book comes from the STC microfilm collection (basically a microfilm set of all books published in English prior to 1700); I stumbled across it while looking for gaming sources. Like the top of the file says, it seems to be a 1652 English translation of a 1631 Spanish book on hot chocolate. It doesn't really contain any *big* surprises: it's well-known that the Spanish nobility were well acquainted with the new-world drink by the very tail end of period. It's useful in that it has a few concrete recipes. I haven't gotten around to trying to concoct it myself, but I gather that some others have. (I seem to recall that Juana in the West was doing some work on hot chocolate.) The drink is clearly fairly spicy, but sounds potentially pretty decent. It's a mild nuisance to reconstruct, mainly because it is written in terms of number of cacao beans. The only real surprise in the book is a pretty clear reference to solid chocolate; however, this has to be taken with a grain of salt. The source makes it sound like this was only done in Mexico, and it isn't clear that the practice was known pre-1600. Still kinda interesting, since most descriptions of early chocolate only talk about the drink. There's more to the book, of course; it's some 40 pages, mostly on the subject of medicine. I've typed in all the practical cooking sections; if I get some time, I'll probably type in the rest. (Not before May, though...) -- Justin du Coeur Carolingia, East Avid period cookbook collector Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 10:31:28 +0100 From: Christina Nevin <cnevin at caci.co.uk> Subject: Re: SC - "Chocolate in a Period Form" Adamantius wrote: It does seem unlikely, but the contest people may be referring to the possibility of edible pastilles of cacao and sugar, little tablets that could be dissolved in hot water for chocolate, or eaten as is. I vaguely recall seeing a reference to this habit, but am pretty sure the point of the researcher bringing up the diarist's passage was that these pastilles appear not to have reached Europe in period. >From "Chocolate: or, An Indian Drinke." London, 1652, by Capt. John Wadsworth. Apparently a translation of a book by Melchor de Lara, "Physitian General for the Kingdome of Spaine", 1631. " ...with a spoone take up some of the Paste <which is made up of chocolate, chilli, aniseed, sugar and various other spices>, which will be almost liquid; and so either make it into Tablets; or put it into Boxes; and when it is cold it will be hard. To make the Tablets, you must put a spoonfull of the Paste upon a piece of paper, the Indians put it upon the leaf of a Plantentree, where being put into the shade, it growes hard; and then bowing the paper, the Tablet falls off, by reason of the fatnesse of the paste. But if you put it into any thing of earth, or wood, it sticks fast, and will not come off, but with scraping, or breaking. " and goes on to speak of the habit of also drinking chocolate hot or cold as well as in tablets. Whether this can be backdated to pre-1600 is one of those never-resolved debates I think. Cordialmente, Lucretzia Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 11:03:01 -0500 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: RE: SC - FW: Fields of Gold information > "<snip> > > This Tasting is designed to bring out the Grandiose. Many would argue that > Chocolate is not period, But I say that Spain landed in the new world in > 1492, and if you found Chocolate, would you share????? This is a display > contest designed around the premise "To the most decadent (with a period > flair) go the Spoils" Imagination definitely counts, and be not shy with > thy presentation...... > > Pass it on > > In Service, Ld Random" Whimsical, but scholastically fallacious. What the Conquistadors brought back were cacao beans or, more likely, cocoa, which is produced by fermenting, curing and then roasting the pods of the cacao tree (Theobroma cacao). It was definitely not found in 1492. It was found in Mexico on Hernando Cortez's expedition of 1520. The beans were probably not delivered to Spain until 1527 with the end of the Conquest or 1528, when Cortez was relieved of command and returned to Spain. Apparently cocoa as a drink became popular in Spain about 1580 and spread to the rest of Europe early in the 17th Century. Chocolate is made with cocoa from which most of the fat has been removed, sugar, cocoa butter (to return the fat), and milk solids. Chocolate, as opposed to cocoa, the powder or the drink, appears to be of 17th Century origin. The process for milk chocolate was perfected in 1876. There may be some proof of the use of cocoa or chocolate in Late Renaissance Italy based on the Carta Bardi II manuscript in the Florentine archives. However, this has been referenced only in passing and I have seen nothing to date the manuscript or describe its contents. Frankly, I'm sorry I can not attend this event and present my interpretation of the "Confection of ground nuts and cocoa" as recorded in the Casablanca documents of Chef Le Bruin. (With an appropriate bittersweet ganache). [This last paragraph is sarcasm, and there is no such recipe, just in case someone is wondering - Stefan] Bon chance Bear Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 23:33:22 +0200 From: "ana l. valdes" <agora at algonet.se> Subject: Re: SC - Chocolate The nahuatl word is cacahuatl. From it we transformed to some barbaric aception as cacahuete (peanut) in spanish and cocoa. But the nahuatl word, in the dictionaries the munks made to translate the Bible and other sources, was cacahuatl to the beans and xocolatl to the drink. Ana Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 19:51:28 -0700 From: varmstro at zipcon.net (Valoise Armstrong) Subject: RE: SC - FW: Fields of Gold information Bear wrote: >It was definitely not found in 1492. It was found in Mexico on Hernando >Cortez's expedition of 1520. The beans were probably not delivered to Spain >until 1527 with the end of the Conquest or 1528, when Cortez was relieved of >command and returned to Spain. Apparently cocoa as a drink became popular >in Spain about 1580 and spread to the rest of Europe early in the 17th >Century. The popularity of a cocoa drink among Spanish nobility may have taken off pretty quickly. There is an anonymous novel called _Lazarillo de Tormes_ that was first published in 1554. In it the main character, a street beggar, enters the house of a down-on-his-luck nobleman and notes that: "I hadn't seen anything but walls, not a chocolate grinder or a block for chopping meat or a bench or a table..." Would seem to imply that by 1554 a chocolate grinder would be expected to be among the most basic furnishings of the minor nobolity. Valoise Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 12:30:39 -0500 From: Virginia Gatling <vgatling at ectisp.net> Subject: SC - Chocolate..Period or not... FYI..... This is a passage on chocolate from my WD encyclopedia of cookery vol.3 printed 1966, even though this is not a "period resource" it may help with the chocolate lovers documentation "chuckle".. Quote .."CHOCOLATE-Chocolate and its brother, cocoa, are made from the beans of the cacao tree, a perennial evergreen tree of the cola family, botanically called Theobroma, or "food of the gods." The cacao tree is native to the hot humid forests of the Amazon basin, and it flourishes only in tropical climates. Chocolate is a mixture of roasted cocoa, cocoa butter [also obtained from the cacao bean], and a very fine sugar. It is truly a product of the New World. The word comes from the Mexican Indian choco, "foam," and alt, "water." It is said that Columbus brought some home to Spain with him, but the first Europeans to see it used were the Spaniards who invaded Mexico under Cortez in 1519. There they found chocolate in common use, flavored with spices, but unsweetened. It was the royal drink of the Aztec: the Emperor Montezuma drank his chocolate from golden ceremonial goblets. Cocoa beans were also used as money. Cortez introduced chocolate as a hot drink to Spain, where sugar and vanilla flavoring were added to it. By 1580 it was in common use and extremely popular. The Spaniards tried to hold on to their monopoly of the cocoa bean and the chocolate drink, and managed to do so for a hundred years. But in the middle of the 1600's, when the Spanish princess Maria Theresa married Louis XIV, the French stared using chocolate. At about the same time cocoa began to be cultivated in the British West Indies and advertised in London. Chocolate shops sprang up throughout Europe, and the fashionables of the day sipped and gossiped in them."..... End of quote, and it goes on... I don't know how this holds up for truth but it is interesting. Regina Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 01:45:50 -0400 (EDT) From: cclark at vicon.net Subject: Fat in chocolate (Re: SC - Sharing an even announcement...) >chocolate was first invented" (ha ha) it didn't contain that *other* magic >ingredient FAT (cocoa butter? butter fat? ) It was a bitter tasting drink >that was at first used medicinally. >Phillipa Seton I might as well get started on this list by setting a record straight. It's what I do compulsively anyway. :-/ Chocolate has always contained fat. Unsweetened baking chocolate tends to have just a bit of added fat (cocoa butter), and most sweetened chocolates (especially candies, and coating and couverture chocolate) have even more fat (either cocoa butter, clarified butterfat, or vegetable oil). Cocoa powder, on the other hand, has had most of the fat *removed* from it, leaving it at about 10% fat by weight. Unseparated chocolate is almost half fat by weight. As far as I know, only unseparated chocolate was known in period, unless they might have used some inefficient means of separating out a little of the cocoa butter. In any case, mostly defatted cocoa powder is more modern. My main sources for the above info are _Chocolate_Heaven_ by Elizabeth Wolf Cohen and Valerie Barrett, _On_Food_and_Cooking_ by McGee, the nutritional information on the several brands of cocoa that I have at the moment, and my own liveware memory banks. The other other magic ingredient in chocolate, sugar, was of course already well known in Europe, and was often used to sweeten drinks. Though I don't know when it was first used to sweeten chocolate. Henry of Maldon/Alex Clark Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 17:33:19 EST From: DianaFiona at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - Chocolate mermayde at juno.com writes: << > Off topic--Christianna, would you like the redaction of that > slightly-post-period-Spanish-chocolate-drink that I came up with for > Aedan's > feast, or have you already done your own long ago? (G) > Diana How far off-topic can chocolate ever be? Don't be a spoon tease, woman! Yes, please, send it along. Christianna >> This came from the webpage at: http://www.inmet.com/~justin/chocolate.txt, which is an excerpt from an English translation of a Spanish treatise on chocolate. The translation is from 1652, and the original was written in 1631, so both are out of period, but the original, at least, is fairly close. I was concocting this to the preferences of our feastcrat, and might have done it a little differently for myself--he vetoed any hot peppers, for instance, which I would have enjoyed. I also left out any nuts since I knew of at least one chocolate loving lady there who is sensitive to them, and wimped out on the anise, since neither I nor most of the Shire folk whose preferences I know are fond of it. The more exotic stuff I didn't think I could get quickly, nor thought it would add much to the flavor--any of you dyers actually *tasted* logwood? So, it ended up being a pretty basic spiced hot chocolate, but it was certainly tasty enough, to judge by the comments received....... ;-) We served it cold at the feast and the leftovers hot the next morning. I do intend to try a few batches soon with at least some of the other ingredients, just for my own satisfaction.......... Here's a couple of paragraphs of the treatise: "The Receipt of him who wrote at Marchena, is this: Of Cacaos, 700, of white Sugar, one pound and a halfe, Cinnamon, 2. ounces; of long red pepper, 14, of Cloves, halfe an ounce: Three Cods of the Logwood or Campeche tree; or in steade of that, the weight of 2 Reals, or a shilling of Anniseeds; as much of Agiote, as will give it the colour, which is about the quantity of a Hasellnut. Some put in Almons, kernells of Nuts, and Orenge-flower-water. Concerning this Receipt I shall first say, This shooe will not fit every foote; but for those, who have diseases, or are inclining to be infirme, you may either adde, or take away, according to the necessity, and temperature of every one: and I hold it not amisse, that Sugar be put into it, when it is drunke, so that it be according to the quantity I shall hereafter set downe. And sometimes they make Tablets of the Sugar, and the Chocolate together: which they doe onely to please the Pallats, as the Dames of Mexico do use it; and they are there sold in shops, and are confected and eaten like other sweet-meats." I didn't try to go with the proportions listed in the first paragraph, not having ready access to cocoa pods to figure out how they might be equivalent to the unsweetened chocolate we would be using. There are other proportions given in other parts of the treatise, too, so obviously it was somewhat a matter of taste. What I finally came up with was: 1 oz unsweetened chocolate 2 Tblsp sugar 1/2 tsp cinnamon 1/8 tsp (Pinch) cloves 1 cup water or milk (Milk is one alternative listed later on, though possibly by the translator.) Mix the sugar and spices in a saucepan, add milk or water. Heat, then add chocolate and stir until dissolved. I found I needed to use a blender to get this thoroughly incorporated, which also did a decent job of frothing the liquid as instructed in other parts of the original manuscript. One of the proper Mexican tools (a molino?) for that job should also work, I just don't have one. Serve hot or cold--room temperature is more accurate than cold, but I don't like it that way myself.........I found I liked the water version best hot, while the milk version was good either way. Plus, I could increase the amount of milk to chocolate a bit and still have a good drink. The water seemed to need the larger amount of chocolate to still be tasty. Well, there's the basic proportions I came up with--feel free to play around with it as you please, of course! Just make sure to offer me a taste if you should happen to bring any to an event I'm at............ ;-) Ldy Diana Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 10:03:01 -0700 From: lilinah at earthlink.net Subject: SC - Chocolate Drink - 1615 I'm trying to work out the following slightly out of period recipe for a Chocolate beverage for personal use. As it is rather late, being a bit OOP, it has quantities of ingredients, but even so, i have questions... - --------------------- From "Chocolate: or, An Indian Drinke." London, 1652, by Capt. John Wadsworth. Apparently a translation of a book by Melchor de Lara, "Physitian General for the Kingdome of Spaine", 1631. ORIGINAL LIST OF INGREDIENTS "The Receipt of him who wrote at Marchena, is this: Of Cacaos, 700 of white Sugar, one pound and a halfe Cinnamon, 2. ounces of long red pepper, 14 of Cloves, halfe an ounce: Three Cods of the Logwood or Campeche tree; or in steade of that, the weight of 2 Reals, or a shilling of Anniseeds; as much of Agiote, as will give it the colour, which is about the quantity of a Hasellnut. Some put in Almons, kernells of Nuts, and Orenge-flower-water. MY QUESTIONS 1.) Cacao pods or nibs are not easy to get and prepare, so i would like to substitute something more readily available while i'm experimenting with the recipe, such as: Unsweetened Baking Chocolate How much would i need to equal 700 cacao nibs? Maybe some day i'll buy 700 cacao nibs and pound them up myself. After all, there's a delicious chocolate bar that has crunchy fragments of cacao in it, so it's a possibility. But while i'm in the development stage, i'd rather use something easier to get and use. 2.) 1-1/2 lb sugar 2 oz cinnamon 14 long red peppers [dried - see preparation, below] 1/2 oz cloves These quantities are clear in the recipe, assuming the measures haven't changed much in 350 years. Is there a significant difference in what constitutes a pound and an ounce by weight between then and now? 3.) 3 Cods of the Logwood or Campeche tree or the weight of 2 Reals, or a shilling of Aniseeds; and Achiote/Annato, as much as will give it the color, about the quantity of a Hazelnut I can get logwood from natural dye suppliers. (a.) Is it safe to consume in small quantities? (b.) How much is "3 cods"? is this a volume or weight measure? (c.) How much does a shilling or 2 reals weight? (d.) Is "a hazelnut of achiote" likely to mean by weight or by volume? (e.) Has the size of a hazelnut changed significantly since 1650? 4.) Some put in Almonds, kernels of Nuts [Walnuts?] Orange-flower-water a.) I assume from the wording that the above are optional. Am i interpreting correctly? b.) At this time period is the word "nuts" here likely to mean "walnuts", or nuts in general. I am under the impression that it refers to walnuts, as it does in French. But i read an interpretation that called for hazelnuts. I can work out quantities by myself, once i resolve (a) and (b). - --------------------- ORIGINAL PREPARATION [paragraph breaks mine for ease of reading] The Cacao, and the other Ingredients must be beaten in a Morter of Stone, or ground upon a broad stone, which the Indians call Metate, and is onely made for that use: But the first thing that is to be done, is to dry the Ingredients, all except the Achiote, with care that they may be beaten to powder, keeping them still in stirring, that they be not burnt, or become black; and if they be over-dried, they will be bitter, and lose their vertue. The Cinamon, and the long red Pepper are to be first beaten, with the Annisseed; and then beate the Cacao, which you must beate by a little and little, till it be all powdred; and sometimes turne it round in the beating, that it may mixe the better: And every one of these Ingredients, must be beaten by it selfe, and then put all the Ingredients into the Vessell, where the Cacao is; which you must stirre together with a spoone; and then take out that Paste, and put it into the Morter, under which you must lay a little fire, after the Confection is made. But you must be very carefull, not to put more fire, than will warme it, that the unctuous part doe not dry away. And you must also take care, to put in the Achiote in the beating; that it may the better take the colour. You must Searse all the Ingredients, but onely the Cacao; and if you take the shell from the Cacao, it is the better; and when you shall find it to be well beaten, & incorporated (which you shall know by the shortness of it) then with a spoone take up some of the Paste, which will be almost liquid; and so either make it into Tablets; or put it into Boxes; and when it is cold it will be hard. To make the Tablets, you must put a spoonfull of the Paste upon a piece of paper, the Indians put it upon the leaf of a Plantentree, where being put into the shade, it growes hard; and then bowing the paper, the Tablet falls off, by reason of the fatnesse of the paste. But if you put it into any thing of earth, or wood, it sticks fast, and will not come off, but with scraping, or breaking. In the Indies they take it two severall waies: The one, being the common way, is to take it hot, with Atolle, which was the Drinke of Ancient Indians (the Indians call Atolle pappe, made of the flower of Maiz, and so they mingle it with the Chocolate, and that the Atolle may be more wholsome, they take off the Husks of the Maiz, which is windy, and melancholy; and so there remaines onely the best and most substantiall part.) Now, to returne to the matter, I say, that the other Moderne drinke, which the Spaniards use so much, is of two sortes. The one is, that the Chocolate, being dissolved with cold water, & the scumme taken off, and put into another Vessell, the remainder is put upon the fire, with Sugar; and when it is warme, then powre it upon the Scumme you tooke off before, and so drinke it. The other is to warme the water; and then, when you have put it into a pot, or dish, as much Chocolate as you thinke fit, put in a little of the warme water, and then grinde it well with the molinet; and when it is well ground, put the rest of the warme water to it; and so drinke it with Sugar. MY SIMPLIFIED INTERPRETATION The recipe calls for drying the ingredients. This appears to be what i call dry roasting which i do in a wok or skillet with no oil on a medium-low fire, stirring constantly until things seem right (color, smell, texture). Grind everything but the chocolate to a powder; sieve to assure it is well powdered and to remove fibers. Crush cacao nibs, then grind them near a fire, which will make a paste (If i use unsweetened baking chocolate, can i just melt it?). Stir powdered ingredients into cocoa paste and mix well. Make tablets by taking a spoonful of paste and putting it on paper or plantain leaves (i used to have access to banana leaves in LA, as these are often planted as ornamentals, but i don't see them here in Berkeley :-) and letting it harden. To drink: (1) mix a tablet into atole (mmm, i like atole - used to make it when i lived in LA); or (2) mix with water, warm, and beat, and add sugar to taste. - --------------------- Thanks for any assistance, Anahita al-shazhiyya Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 11:22:44 -0700 From: Susan Fox-Davis <selene at earthlink.net> Subject: Re: SC - Chocolate Drink - 1615 I just bought a small packet of cacao nibs, about one ounce or so, at Whole Foods Market in Los Angeles [high-end yuppie organic grocery, formerly Mrs. Gooch's]. Baking chocolate =might= do, but consider it pre-powdered and pre-roasted. Annato seeds are readily available here as well. I'm not sure what logwood is nor how it affects the flavor so I guess we go with the anise seeds. I will perform the experiment, albeit on a small scale, and get back to you. But for the spice seeds and chili pepper, this seems to closely resemble the ingredients list of Mexican chocolate tablets, which contain chocolate nibs, sugar, cinnimon and sometimes vanilla. I have a vile habit of eating them straight, but I also make a pleasant sweet bread with them based on a cocoa bread recipe from a breadmaker book. Selene Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 14:06:04 -0500 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: RE: SC - Chocolate Drink - 1615 A cod in this case is a seed pod. A shilling is 1/20th of a pound sterling equaling 12 penneyweights Troy approximately equaling 18.6 grams or slightly over 1/2 ounce U.S. Customary Measure. Bear > I'm just trying to figure out what some of those measurements are, > like cods and reals. I know a real is a coin, but how much does it > weigh? but i don't think a cod in this context is a fish :-) > > Anahita al-shazhiyya Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 15:21:01 -0500 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: RE: SC - Chocolate Drink - 1615 > MY QUESTIONS > > 1.) > Cacao pods or nibs are not easy to get and prepare, so i would like > to substitute something more readily available while i'm > experimenting with the recipe, such as: > > Unsweetened Baking Chocolate > > How much would i need to equal 700 cacao nibs? > Maybe some day i'll buy 700 cacao nibs and pound them up myself. > After all, there's a delicious chocolate bar that has crunchy > fragments of cacao in it, so it's a possibility. But while i'm in the > development stage, i'd rather use something easier to get and use. I haven't found any information on how many beans it take to make a pound of chocolate. The average number of beans to the pound probably varies depending on variety of tree and where the beans are in the process. One of the industry sites gives the following: 1 lb cocoa paste requires 1.25 lb beans, 1 lb of cocoa butter requires 2.67 lbs of beans, 1 pound of cocoa powder or cake requires 2.35 lb beans. >From http://www.hhhh.org/cloister/chocolate/history.html By the mid 1600s, some chocolatiers were preparing a primordeal sort of chocolate bar, consisting of the chocolate paste, sugar, and spices. The product was a very coarse one at best, and because of the expense of cocoa beans, probably contained more spice than chocolate. The closest thing you'll find on the market today is probably Ibarra chocolate. Chocolate drinks at that time were generally made from one part chocolate paste, two parts sugar, 8 parts water, and spices. I have no idea where this site got the ratios. If both sets of ratios hold true, and that's a big IF, then 700 cocoa beans represent 15 oz. avoirdupois or 11.25 ounces Troy depending on which system was used for the recipe. Which is then converted into 3/4 lb of cocoa paste. Just as guess, I would use about 3/8 lb of baker's chocolate or cocoa powder to begin experimenting with the understanding that these have been processed beyond the basic cocoa paste stage and may not represent the cocoa in the drink accurately. > 2.) > 1-1/2 lb sugar > 2 oz cinnamon > 14 long red peppers [dried - see preparation, below] > 1/2 oz cloves > > These quantities are clear in the recipe, assuming the measures > haven't changed much in 350 years. Is there a significant difference > in what constitutes a pound and an ounce by weight between then and > now? If someone has not converted the recipe to modern measure, then these would probably be apothecary weights (Troy measure). > > 3.) > 3 Cods of the Logwood or Campeche tree > or > the weight of 2 Reals, or a shilling of Aniseeds; and Achiote/Annato, > as much as will give it the color, about the quantity of a Hazelnut > > I can get logwood from natural dye suppliers. > (a.) Is it safe to consume in small quantities? > (b.) How much is "3 cods"? is this a volume or weight measure? Logwood (Haematoxylon campechianum) is a member of the pea family. A cod is a seed pod. The toxicity is unknown, but I would point out that our ancestors seem to have survived it. Also the wood is primarily used as a dye stuff. > (c.) How much does a shilling or 2 reals weight? Shilling = 1/20 pound sterling = 12 pennyweights Troy = 3/5 ounce Troy = slightly over 1/2 ounce U.S. Customary Measure. > (d.) Is "a hazelnut of achiote" likely to mean by weight or by volume? > (e.) Has the size of a hazelnut changed significantly since 1650? Achiote or annatto (Bix orellana)in this instance is the seed of a New World evergreen, so an annatto seed about the size of a hazelnut. I don't think hazelnut size has changed much. > 4.) > Some put in Almonds, > kernels of Nuts [Walnuts?] > Orange-flower-water > > a.) I assume from the wording that the above are optional. Am i > interpreting correctly? I would agree with your interpretation. > b.) At this time period is the word "nuts" here likely to mean > "walnuts", or nuts in general. I am under the impression that it > refers to walnuts, as it does in French. But i read an interpretation > that called for hazelnuts. What nuts were commonly available in Spain at this time? Seems to me walnuts and hazelnuts grow further north, but I'm real sketchy on this. > I can work out quantities by myself, once i resolve (a) and (b). <recipe clipped> > Anahita al-shazhiyya So have fun and tell us hov it goes. Bear From: "Christine Seelye-King" <kingstaste at mindspring.com> To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org> Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 16:43:43 -0400 Subject: [Sca-cooks] Chocolate (was Corn Bread) > The making of chocolate is neither simple nor obvious (nor > pre-17th century, unless I'm mistaken). IIRC, the pre-17th century use of cocoa by > the Spanish was as part of a medicinal beverage based on observations of the Mayan > pharmaceuticals, and it was made of ground, roasted cocoa beans, ground > capsicum, and hot water. Stimulating, yes, but hardly pleasant. > Unfortunately, my collection of post-Columbian herb and medical > documentation, where I picked up these trivial tidbits, is packed away. > > If any of these folks has solid evidence of these ingredients being widely > used in pre-17th century Spanish culture, I'd be very interested. > > Thomas Longshanks Well, I agree with just about everything you said here, but I had to jump in here, just because I could. :) The infamous Mexican/Spanish source about chocolate does give us what looks to be like a sweetened, spiced, bar or tablet of chocolate to be eaten as a confection or used in other foods. Not widely used, not pre-17th century, but a chocolate bar, nevertheless. Christianna [From "Chocolate: or, An Indian Drinke." London, 1652, by Capt. John Wadsworth. Apparently a translation of a book by Melchor de Lara, "Physitian General for the Kingdome of Spaine", 1631.] The Cacao, and the other Ingredients must be beaten in a Morter of Stone, or ground upon a broad stone, which the Indians call Metate, and is onely made for that use: But the first thing that is to be done, is to dry the Ingredients, all except the Achiote, with care that they may be beaten to powder, keeping them still in stirring, that they be not burnt, or become black; and if they be over-dried, they will be bitter, and lose their vertue. The Cinamon, and the long red Pepper are to be first beaten, with the Annisseed; and then beate the Cacao, which you must beate by a little and little, till it be all powdred; and sometimes turne it round in the beating, that it may mixe the better: And every one of these Ingredients, must be beaten by it selfe, and then put all the Ingredients into the Vessell, where the Cacao is; which you must stirre together with a spoone; and then take out that Paste, and put it into the Morter, under which you must lay a little fire, after the Confection is made. But you must be very carefull, not to put more fire, than will warme it, that the unctuous part doe not dry away. And you must also take care, to put in the Achiote in the beating; that it may the better take the colour. You must Searse all the Ingredients, but onely the Cacao; and if you take the shell from the Cacao, it is the better; and when you shall find it to be well beaten, & incorporated (which you shall know by the shortness of it) then with a spoone take up some of the Paste, which will be almost liquid; and so either make it into Tablets; or put it into Boxes; and when it is cold it will be hard. To make the Tablets, you must put a spoonfull of the Paste upon a piece of paper, the Indians put it upon the leaf of a Plantentree, where being put into the shade, it growes hard; and then bowing the paper, the Tablet falls off, by reason of the fatnesse of the paste. But if you put it into any thing of earth, or wood, it sticks fast, and will not come off, but with scraping, or breaking. And sometimes they make Tablets of the Sugar, and the Chocolate together: which they doe onely to please the Pallats, as the Dames of Mexico do use it; and they are there sold in shops, and are confected and eaten like other sweet-meats. From: lilinah at earthlink.net Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 13:16:21 -0700 To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] Chocolate (was Corn Bread) Gwynydd wrote: >1) What is 'Achiote'? Achiote is the same as Annatto, a somewhat pyramidal seed used to give a red, orange, or yellow color (depending on how much you use). Available in markets that sell Caribbean and/or Latin American products >2) If I used pre-powdered cocoa (given that I am not sure that I can even >get cocoa beans), how would I get the paste - the addition of cocoa butter >(if one can even buy this commercially in Tasmania) or something like it, >perhaps? Mix with a little cocoa butter (if you can find it) or substitute another mono-unsaturated fat like coconut oil or even a little butter - obviously it will effect the flavor a bit, but you really don't need much fat. Sometimes gourmet stores sell "cocoa nibs" - this is what you'd use if you want to get closer to "from scratch". I bought some but haven't made the drink yet... You can probably order some over the internet, but i don't know if it would be worth the expense. >3) Is granulated white sugar appropriate for the sweetened version? Or >should I be looking at something else? White sugar would be quite suitable for a late period Spanish recipe. >4) Can someone explain this sentence please? It has me rather confused. >'You must Searse all the Ingredients, but onely the Cacao; and if you take >the shell from the Cacao, it is the better; and when you shall find >it to be well beaten, & incorporated (which you shall know by the >shortness of it)' Dunno. Searse usually means to sift, i think. But then it says to sift all the ingredients, but only the cacao, which doesn't make much sense. I guess "the shortness of it" means you can see that the ingredients are incorporated with the cocoa fats... Anahita / Subaytila To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 13:58:11 -0400 Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Chocolate (was Corn Bread) From: Elizabeth A Heckert <spynnere at juno.com> Gwynydd wrote: >2) the addition of cocoa butter >(if one can even buy this commercially in Tasmania) Try your local natural foods store. By-pass the food and go straight to the cosmetic counter. Cocoa butter is used as an emmolient. There is an American natural foods company, called Spectrum Naturals, which produces non-hydrogenated, expeller-pressed oils for cooking. They also produce food-grade coconut oil and cocoa butter for cosmetic purposes. Now I realize that Tasmania is half a world away from the US, but the natural foods industry is fairly international. If your local store does not carry Spectrum, they might carry an Australian or New Zealand brand that is food-grade. Elizabeth From: jenne at fiedlerfamily.net Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 17:04:10 -0400 (EDT) To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org> Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] Chocolate (was Corn Bread) > Do you know if achiote adds any very distinctive flavour as well as the > colour? I have never seen it for sale anywhere here, I don't think > (although, I will ask at the local spice shop) so I wonder if I can get away > with not using it. It has a distinctive, yummy scent that is stronger than the flavor, but it does have a distinctive flavor. -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa From: nikkicmiller at yahoo.com Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 16:15:30 -0700 (PDT) To: Sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Subject: [Sca-cooks] achiote source > Do you know if achiote adds any very distinctive flavour as well as the > colour? I have never seen it for sale anywhere here, I don't think > (although, I will ask at the local spice shop) so Achiote has a very earthy favor with a brilliant color. Available mail order at www.penderys.com. They are also a wonderful source for all your dried capsium needs. And do offer herbs and spices as well. They are located in dallas. I highly recommend them. p