chocolate-msg – 2/29/08
History and description of early chocolate.
NOTE: See also the files: desserts-msg, candy-msg, cookies-msg, gingerbread-msg, sugar-msg, sugar-paste-msg, Sugarplums-art, Roses-a-Sugar-art, peppers-msg.
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NOTICE -
This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.
This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org
I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.
The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.
Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).
Thank you,
Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous
Stefan at florilegium.org
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Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: marian at world.std.com (marian walke)
Subject: Re: hot chocolate
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 1994 01:46:01 GMT
Phyllis_Gilmore at rand.org (Phyllis Gilmore) writes:
>(Andrea Marie Habura) wrote:
>>Yes, mole sauce is made with unsweetened chocolate. I am not particularly
>>fond of it, but my husband thinks it's dynamite with chicken, so I make
>>it occasionally. I think it tastes better the more chili peppers you
>>put in. I very much doubt it's period.
>>
>Actually, Alison, I too doubt it's period. I was really only hoping to
>confirm that this sauce is an example of a combination of chocolate and
>chili peppers--which you and others have done.
Actually, Phyllis and Alison, it appears to be just barely in period, if you
think period goes to 1650, and if you're refering to the Iberian penisula.
The following is a quote from _Food_in_History_ by Reay Tannahill (New York:
Stein and Day, 1973), pp 287-289:
"In Spain by 1631, the preparation of a cup of chocoalate had
become a major operation. 'For every hundred cocoa beans, mix
two pods of chili or Mexican pepper...or, failing those, two
Indian peppercorns, a handful of aniseed, two of those flowers
known as "little ears" or *vinacaxtlides,* and two of those known
as *mesasuchil*...Instead of the latter one could include the
powder of the six roses of Alexaundria [an apothecaries' formula]...
a little pod of logwood [a dye], two drachmas of cinnamon, a
dozen almonds and as many hazelnuts, half a pound of sugar, and
enought arnotto [a dye] to give color to the whole.'"
This is footnoted as "Antonio Colmenero, quoted in Franklin, Vol XIII,
pp. 161-162." By Franklin, she means Alfred Franklin,
_Vie_privee_d'autrefois,..._12e_au_18e_siecles. (27 vol. Paris, 1887-1902).
Vol XIII is titled: "Le cafe, le the, et le chocolat." [Francophiles,
forgive me, I don't know how to make the accents correctly without my
ASCII cheatsheet handy.] Antonio Colmenero wrote a book on "On
chocolate" which was first published in Madrid (in Spanish) in 1631. By
the end of the 17th century it had been translated and
published in French, Italian, and English. I don't remember the exact
dates and titles of the translations, but I can look them up if anyone
really cares.
Tannahill goes on to say that "by the early seventeenth century, a
considerable amount of chocolate paste was being exported to Italy and
Flanders, but it was not until 1659 that the new drink became widely
known in France."
This may be more than anyone *really* wants to know about drinking hot
chocolate in period...but you *did* ask...
--Old Marian
(marian at world.std.com)
From: ddfr at best.com (David Friedman)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Chocolate (was Re: bu
Date: 25 Apr 1996 05:31:11 GMT
> I had heard Mistress Alys Katherine from the Middle Kingdom say that she had
> a recipie for chocolate marzipan that was done in period.
>
> Mistress Alys are you out there???
>
> Juelda
> Calontir
I'm not Alys Katherine, but in case she doesn't pick up on this ... .
I suspect what you are remembering is a reference by her to one of the
recipes in the modern Italian secondary source that I mentioned earlier in
the thread. I think (my Italian is not very good) that it is claiming its
chocolate recipes are fifteenth century, which is pretty nearly
impossible. My own guess is that the recipes are either badly misdated
(they are said to be from the archives of one of the Italian cities, and,
as I remember, there are no exact dates given) or mistranslated, with some
other term converted into the modern Italian for chocolate. But I could be
wrong.
David/Cariadoc
--
ddfr at best.com
From: alysk at ix.netcom.com(Elise Fleming )
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Chocolate (was Re: bu
Date: 25 Apr 1996 22:12:34 GMT
>I had heard Mistress Alys Katherine from the Middle Kingdom say that
>she had a recipie for chocolate marzipan that was done in period.
>
>Mistress Alys are you out there???
>
>Juelda
>Calontir
Yes, I'm here, and I thought I was doing a nice job of staying out of
this thread! :-) I have three purportedly period recipes using
chocolate mixed with sugar. One is chocolate mixed with sugar,
marzipan, and cinnamon into something like a cookie. (Delicious!)
Another is a chocolate and pear tart, if I recall correctly. The third
mixes chocolate, sugar, cinnamon and boils it before using it with a
(cookie?) dough. These were printed in a modern Italian book on
Renaissance cooking, and were implied to be from the early 1500s.
David Friedman referred to this book in an earlier post. The source is
the "Carta (sp?) Bardi II" in the archives in Florence, Italy. The
finder of the source is an Australian baroness who was a PhD candidate
in Italy a few years ago. While we began a brief correspondence, she
stopped early on and never answered any information about the dates of
the Carte Bardi manuscripts. In the modern book all of the other
manuscripts have dates except this one.
I posted two, I believe, of the recipes when a similar thread ran about
9 months ago. I have the material in a "text only" file so I can send
the marzipan one, at least, to anyone interested. I also have a file
for the "Mayan" recipe which should probably read "Aztec." It works
out to something like a gingerbread. Baroness Annejke, the Compleat
Anachronist editor, gave me a copy of the recipe. If interested,
e-mail me and I will send it/them.
I am _really_ interested to see what "justin at dsd.camb.inme" has!
Alys Katharine
From: justin at harp.camb.inmet.COM (Mark Waks)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Chocolate
Date: 9 Sep 1996 11:28:09 -0400
Cindy Renfrow replies to Cariadoc:
>> More precisely, the evidence (so far as I know it) suggests that chocolate
>> as food was not known anywhere in the old world pre 1650. I also don't
>> think that any chocolate drink much like what we call cocoa existed
>> anywhere pre 1650, although I am less sure about that.
>
>Hello! Please check out http://www.inmet.com/~justin/chocolate.txt
>He's posted a partial MS from 1652 with recipes for sweetened chocolate.
[Published book, not MS, actually.]
Well, it should be pointed out that the cocoa recipe there is *quite*
different from modern cocoa, so people shouldn't draw over-broad
conclusions from it -- I think that that's what Cariadoc means when he
says that there wasn't anything "much like" modern cocoa. And while it
does indicate that sweetened hard chocolate was *known* to Europe,
it's not entirely clear that it was actually *used* there. The
evidence is still pretty inconclusive, I'd say, although not as
negative as often portrayed.
BTW, I've just recently stumbled across a 1640 English edition of the
same book. (Unfortunately, the microfilm reader broke at just that
moment, so I only have the title page, but I plan on getting the whole
book shortly.) So I now have more confidence that the period version
of hot chocolate was more-or-less popularly known in England by 1650,
although probably still pretty expensive...
-- Justin
From: gswitzer at loop.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Chocolate & Authenticity
Date: 9 Sep 1996 06:37:28 GMT
I haven't found a copy yet, but I read a review of a new book entitled: "The True History of Chocolate"
by Sophie D. Coe and Michael D. Coe (Thames and Hudson: $27.50, 288 pp.) in the August 25th LA Times Book
Review Section that might just finally answer the question once and for all.
But then again, is any question on rec.org.sca ever answered once and for all? :)
Ishido Matsukage
From: Darlene Mielke <mielke at interlog.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Chocolate & Authenticity
Date: 10 Sep 1996 04:40:43 GMT
natalyadef at aol.com (NatalyaDeF) wrote:
> Forgive me for jumping into the middle of things, but my understanding of
> authenticity is that "it" had to be in existence and in use before 1650
> (yes, I'm one of THOSE). So, if some nobles in France, England, or Spain
> were drinking the bitter stuff, it is authentic. I don't recall anywhere
> in SCA law that someone (real) had to declare it fashionable. On the
> other hand, neither does this give us license to add sugar, serve it as
> dessert, and declare it authentic. -- Natalya de Foix
I just love this one. I've found several references to chocolate/cocoa,
when it came to Europe from the New World, and although I haven't (yet)
found a recipe, apparently there were 2 versions of a drink used by the
natives of Mexico: one being hot and spiced with chillies, and another
which was sweetened (and much preferred by the Europeans). Spain, and
parts of Italy (Naples comes to mind as it was a Spanish holding for a
time) would have been aware of these drinks. England and her allies
would not really become knowledgeable of these (as well as the tomatillo,
, the potato - specifically the sweet potato, and even the predecessor of
coffee) until much later - Spain would not be willing to share her
'finds' with the enemy you know.
True, serving chocolate, or any of the above mentioned items, in forms
known and loved today is not 'period', but the hunt goes on for the
early (earliest) forms of them. Which, I believe is one of the things
the SCA is all about.
Saludos,
Mercedes Heloise d'Abelard
From: ottokarvs at aol.com (Ottokar vS)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Chocolate & Authenticity
Date: 10 Oct 1996 04:12:31 -0400
I have come accross a book that gives a 1631 recipe for drinking chocolate.
The recipe is by Antonio Colmenero who states that he got it from a
physician in Marchena. It calls for "of white sugar, one pound and a halfe"
and yes "of long red pepper 14". The book also notes that Spain and Italy were the first to accept the drinking of cocoa. Cortes has the basic honor in approximately 1520-1530 of introducing the Spanish courts to this drink, who tried to keep chocolate a secret for as long as possible.
The book is
"Chocolate, the Food of the Gods"
by Chantal Coady
Chronicle Books, CA
Copyright 1993
This book has several primary and secondary references listed in the
bibliography ranging from 1640 to 1987.
Ottokar von dem Schwarzwald
From: ottokarvs at aol.com (Ottokar vS)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: CHOCOLATE
Date: 26 Oct 1996 06:36:48 -0400
EHAV at oro.net (Eric S. Haverberg) wrote:
> Not too long ago, someone was kind enough to post a recipe for an
> Aztec Cocoa beverage. All I remember was that it contained Cocoa and
> some kind of Chile extract. If anyone has it, I'd appreciate very
> much.
I here is the recipe I have from 1631 published by Antonio Colmenero who
had taken it from a Marchena physician;
700 cocoa beans
1 1/2 lbs. white sugar
2 ozs of cinnamon
14 long red peppers
1/2 oz of clove
3 cods of logwood or Campeche tree - similar to fennell
or instead use
the weight of 2 reals (or a shilling) of anniseeds
as much Achiote to give it the color of hazelnut
I don't know what some of these measurements are so I will
leave that up to some one more knowledgable then I.
I should also note that cornmeal was usually added to absorb the oil of
the cocoa bean and to bind it all together. Also this would be made up
into solid blocks so that when there was a feast these blocks would just
be added to the water at that time instead of making it that day.
This would be served cold.
You can find some of this information in "Chocolate, the Food of the Gods"
by Chantal Coady, 1993
Ottokar von dem Schwartwald, AoA
Shire of Blackhawk
Middle Kingdom
From: OttokarvS at aol.com
To: markh at risc.sps.mot.com
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 01:18:43 -0500
Subject: Re: CHOCOLATE
Greetings Lord Stefan,
Here is the information you requested.
A Curious Treatise of the Nature and Quality of Chocolate
Antonio Colmenero
publisher(?) J. Oakes 1640
Note since I have not seen this book first hand, that I can only assume
that Chantal Coady has noted an earlier date on this book then what was
given above.
Some other reference given by Coady are;
A New Survey of the West Indies
Thomas Gage, 1648
Note that the author for this reference had been smuggled into New
Spain in a bisuit barrel because only the Spaniards were allowed in at
that time.
The Indian Nectar
Henry Stubbe
publisher Andrew Crook, 1662
Ottokar von dem Schwartwald, AoA
Shire of Blackhawk
Middle Kingdom
From: "H. R. Haines" <"Phrhaines at hrhaines" at mail.interlog.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Chocolate Reference
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 17:34:42 -0800
I remember a while ago there was a discussion over the "periodness" of chocolate. In my other studies I recently came across the following reference for anyone still interested in the subject.
Relaciones de Yucatan, Coleccion de documentos ineditos relativos al descubriemiento conquisto y organizacion de las antiquas posesiones espanoles de ultramar, 2nd series, v 11-13. Madrid 1898-1900. v. 1 pp 369, 373
Records that in 1579 the Zoque (cultural group in Aztec Empire) were forced to include cacao in their tribute payments to the Spanish, for the purpose of export to Spain.
Sincerely,
H. R. Haines
Institute of Archaeology
From: gray at ibis.cs.umass.edu (Lyle Gray)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Chocolate Reference
Date: 20 Feb 1997 21:38:14 GMT
Organization: CMPSCI Department, UMass Amherst
My wife was doing a search in the local college library catalog, and came
across this book. Note the last comedy title.
Five comedies of Medieval France - Contents: The comic drama in the middle
ages, by Oscar Mandel/ The play of Saint Nicholas, by Jean Bodel /The Play of
Robin and Marion, by Adam de la Halle / Peter Quill's Shenanigans, by
Anonymous/ The Washtub, by Anonymous /The Chicken-pie and the Chocolate Cake,
by Anon (French drama to 1500) PQ1342.E5 F58 1982
I'm going to take a look at this book tonight. It may just be that the
translator substituted a modern equivalent... ;-)
------------------------------------------------------ NON ANIMAM CONTINE
Lyle H. Gray gray at cs.umass.edu (text only)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Barbara L. Hunter" <ami at prostar.com>
Subject: Re: Chocolate Reference
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Date: 20 Feb 97 17:22:23 GMT
> > cacao in their tribute payments to the Spanish, for the purpose of
> export to Spain.
>
> But how was it prepared and consumed once in Spain?
>
One refernce I have is from a book called California Mission Recieps...it
lists how drink of cocoa was prepared. You ground up your cocoa bean in a
mortar and pestal and added it to boiling warer...different spices were
added like cinnamon....(I don't have the reference here at the moment.) and
others....Europeans added honey to it because it was so bitter...I have
also found references to this effect in a few other books dealing with 16th
century Spain.
Thanks
Barbara
From: nc-kk at Sun.COM (Kevin Kellog)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: mail order cocoa bean web sites (was: Re: Chocolate Reference)
Date: 21 Feb 1997 23:21:02 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., San Diego CA, USA
Bruce Mills (millsbn at mcmail.cis.McMaster.CA) wrote:
: Where can one get cocoa beans? I haven't been able to find any up here
: in the Great White North.
Try <URL: http://www.staarcom.com/cocoa>;, <URL: http://
urgento.gse.rmit.edu.au:80/untpdc/news/eto/africa/>, <URL: http://
www.cbn.com.sg/ascii/search/data/C310.html>, or <URL: http://
ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/quetzal/>
Avenel Kellough
From: jesst2+ at pitt.edu (Julia E Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Chocolate Reference
Date: 24 Feb 1997 15:43:42 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Anyone interested in chocolate, in period or not, ought to read:
Sophie Coe 1996 (I think) _The True History of Chocolate_. The author has
a PhD in Mesoamerican anthropology and was (she is recently deceased, I
believe) married to Michael Coe (a very well known archaeologist who works
on the ancient Maya). It is a superb book, giving translations of several
recipes and descriptions (for those of you who don't read Nahuatl,
Spanish, Italian, etc.) as well as the references to the originals for
those who do.
It also has a great bibliography of 16th and 17th century stuff. You
won't regret it.
Juliana de Luna
Julia Smith
jesst2+ at pitt.edu
From: plburton at mail.goodnet.com (Sue Thing)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Chocolate Reference
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 20:43:39 GMT-7
Chocolate was introduced into Spain in 1520. The cocoa beans were roasted and
ground, then mixed with sugar (Cortez had extensive sugar plantations at
Cuernevaca), cinnamon, and vanilla, and formed into tablets. The tablets were
then mixed with hot water to form a thick liquid, which was then frothed with
the *molinillo* -- a wooden whisk with an artichoke-shaped end piece and
diamond-shaped spikes. Modern versions of the *molinillo* are found in Mexico
to this day, as are chocolate tablets. When chocolate was introduced into the
French court at the end of the 16th century, the French decided to make the
drink with milk instead of water.
(Information from _The Heritage of Spanish Cooking_ Rios and March, 1992)
Clea
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 09:30:43 -0500 (CDT)
From: "J. Patrick Hughes" <jphughes at raven.cc.ukans.edu>
To: sca-arts at listproc.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Request for Chocolate Help (fwd)
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 07:03:53 -0600 (CST)
From: Julia Smith <julias at cariari.ucr.ac.cr>
To: "J. Patrick Hughes" <jphughes at raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: Re: Request for Chocolate Help (fwd)
On Mon, 28 Apr 1997, J. Patrick Hughes wrote:
> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 11:39:29 -0600
> From: Jennifer Edwards-Ring <jener at macomb.com>
> To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
> Subject: Re: Request for Chocolate Help (fwd)
>
> >There is a lovely book:
> >Coe, Sophie
> >1995 The True History of Chocolate. Put out by some university p