baklava-msg - 1/21/08
Period Baklava-like layered pastries.
NOTE: See also the files: pastries-msg, leavening-msg, flour-msg, desserts-msg, pies-msg, honey-msg, sugar-msg, pancakes-msg.
************************************************************************
NOTICE -
This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.
This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org
I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.
The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.
Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).
Thank you,
Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous
Stefan at florilegium.org
************************************************************************
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 00:55:21 -0800
From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Subject: Re: SC - desserts (was re: key lime pie and re: ladies and gentles)
>I will be happy to post my version of Countess Talitha's Individual
>Hand-Rolled Baklava on two conditions: One, if someone can affirm that
>baklava is period; and Two, if Talitha doesn't mind... ;-)
I have never been able to find any evidence of baklava in period Islamic
cookbooks. There are many layered things sort of like filo, there are nuts,
there are pastries with melted butter, but so far as I can tell nothing
that really corresponds to the modern baklava.
David/Cariadoc
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 00:06:04 -0800
From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Subject: Re: SC - filo pastry
At 3:48 PM +0000 2/17/98, RMcGrath at dca.gov.au wrote:
>Is filo pastry period?
Not so far as I know. There is a 13th c. Andalusian recipe that gives a
pastry with lots of thin layers, however: Here is the recipe:
- --
Preparation of Musammana [Buttered] Which Is Muwarraqa [Leafy]
Andalusian p. A-60 - A-61
Take pure semolina or wheat flour and knead a stiff dough without yeast.
Moisten it little by little and don't stop kneading it until it relaxes and
is ready and is softened so that you can stretch a piece without severing
it. Then put it in a new frying pan on a moderate fire. When the pan has
heated, take a piece of the dough and roll it out thin on marble or a
board. Smear it with melted clarified butter or fresh butter liquified over
water. Then roll it up like a cloth until it becomes like a reed. Then
twist it and beat it with your palm until it becomes like a round thin
bread, and if you want, fold it over also. Then roll it out and beat it
with your palm a second time until it becomes round and thin. Then put it
in a heated frying pan after you have greased the frying pan with clarified
butter, and whenever the clarified butter dries out, moisten [with butter]
little by little, and turn it around until it binds, and then take it away
and make more until you finish the amount you need. Then pound them between
your palms and toss on butter and boiling honey. When it has cooled, dust
it with ground sugar and serve it.
2 c semolina flour 1/4 c clarified butter for frying 1/4 c
butter at the end
aprox 5/8 c water 1 T+ sugar 1/4 c honey at the end (or more)
1/4 c = 1/8 lb butter, melted
Stir the water into the flour, knead together, then gradually knead in the
rest of the water. Knead for about 5-10 minutes until you have a smooth,
elastic and slightly sticky dough that stretches instead of breaking when
you pull it a little. Divide in four equal parts. Roll out on a floured
board, or better floured marble, to at least 13"x15". Smear it with about 4
t melted butter. Roll it up. Twist it. Squeeze it together, flatten with
your hands to about a 5-6" diameter circle. If you wish, fold that in
quarters and flatten again to about a 5-6" circle. Melt about 1 T of
clarified butter in a frying pan and fry the dough about 8 minutes, turning
about every 1 1/2 to 2 minutes (shorter times towards the end). Repeat with
the other three, adding more clarified butter as needed. Melt 1/4 c butter,
heat 1/4 c honey. Beat the cooked circles between your hands to loosen the
layers, put in a bowl, pour the honey and butter over them, dust with
sugar, and serve. If you are going to give it time to really soak, you
might use more butter and honey.
For regular flour, everything is the same except that you may need slightly
more water. You can substitute cooking oil for the clarified butter (which
withstands heat better than plain butter) if necessary.
- ---
>I've heard conflicting answers, and wondered if filo pastry were only from
>the Middle East in period.
So far as I know, not even from the Middle East--the recipe above is the
closest I have come across, and not very close.
>And do I still get to play with baklava?
You get to do whatever you like--but you don't get to truthfully say that
you have good reason to believe it is period unless someone else has found
better evidence than we have.
David/Cariadoc
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:46:11 -0800
From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Subject: SC - Khushkananaj (was: Ideal vs. practical)
At 1:27 AM -0600 3/24/99, Stefan li Rous wrote:
>I too, would be interested in finding out what khushkananaj is.
Period Islamic pastry with almonds, rosewater, and sugar. From the Miscellany:
Khushkananaj
al-Baghdadi p. 212/14
Take fine white flour, and with every ratl mix three uqiya of
sesame-oil[one part oil to four of flour], kneading into a firm paste.
Leave to rise; then make into long loaves. Put into the middle of each loaf
a suitable quantity of ground almonds and scented sugar mixed with rose
water, using half as much almonds as sugar. Press together as usual, bake
in the oven, remove.
2 c white +1 c whole wheat flour 12 oz = 1 1/2 c sugar
1/2 c sesame oil 1 T rose water
6 oz almonds =1 c before chopping 3/4 to 7/8 c cold water or
additional flour for rolling out dough 1/2 c water, 1/2 c sourdough starter
"Leave to rise" is a puzzle, since the recipe includes neither yeast nor
water. The recipe does not seem to work without water; perhaps the author
took it for granted that making a paste implied adding water. We originally
developed the recipe without leavening, but currently use sourdough, which
is our best guess at what the original intended (and also seems to work a
little better). The two versions are:
Without leavening: Mix the flour, stir in the oil. Sprinkle the water onto
the dough, stir in. Knead briefly together.
Sourdough: Mix the flour, stir in the oil. Mix the water and the sour dough
starter together. Add gradually to the flour/oil mixture, and knead briefly
together. Cover with a damp cloth and let rise about 8 hours in a warm
place, then knead a little more.
We also have two interpretations of how the loaves are made; they are:
Almost Baklava: Divide in four parts. Roll each one out to about 8"x16" on
a floured board. Grind almonds, combine with sugar and rose water. Spread
the mixture over the rolled out dough and roll up like a jelly roll,
sealing the ends and edges (use a wet finger if necessary). You may want to
roll out the dough in one place and roll it up in another, so as not to
have bits of nuts on the board you are trying to roll it out on. You can
vary how thin you roll the dough and how much filling you use over a
considerable range, to your own taste.
Long thin loaves: Divide the dough into six or eight parts, roll each out
to a long loaf (about 16"), flatten down the middle so that you can fill it
with the sugar and almond mixture, then seal it together over the filling.
You end up with a tube of dough with filling in the middle.
Bake at 350 degrees about 45-50 minutes.
Notes: At least some of the almonds should be only coarsely ground, for
texture. The sesame oil is the Middle Eastern version, which is almost
flavorless; you can get something similar at health food stores. Chinese
sesame oil, made from toasted sesame seeds, is very strongly flavored and
results in a nearly inedible pastry. We do not know what scented sugar
contained.
Elizabeth/Betty Cook
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 13:28:20 -0500
From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow)
Subject: Re: SC - Khushkananaj (was: Ideal vs. practical)
>Khushkananaj
>al-Baghdadi p. 212/14
>
>Take fine white flour, and with every ratl mix three uqiya of
>sesame-oil[one part oil to four of flour], kneading into a firm paste.
>Leave to rise; then make into long loaves. Put into the middle of each loaf
>a suitable quantity of ground almonds and scented sugar mixed with rose
>water, using half as much almonds as sugar. Press together as usual, bake
>in the oven, remove.
>
>2 c white +1 c whole wheat flour 12 oz = 1 1/2 c sugar
>1/2 c sesame oil 1 T rose water
>6 oz almonds =1 c before chopping 3/4 to 7/8 c cold water or
>additional flour for rolling out dough 1/2 c water, 1/2 c sourdough starter
>
>"Leave to rise" is a puzzle, since the recipe includes neither yeast nor
>water. The recipe does not seem to work without water; perhaps the author
>took it for granted that making a paste implied adding water. We originally
>developed the recipe without leavening, but currently use sourdough, which
>is our best guess at what the original intended (and also seems to work a
>little better). The two versions are:
><snip>
There is a footnote in A Baghdad Cookery Book for this recipe:
"Khushknanaj, From Persian khushk = dry, nan = bread."
Might this recipe also be interpreted to be making a long, *flat*,
cracker-like bread, filled with the almonds & scented sugar?
The bread recipes that follow this in the MS also do not call for water, soyour assumption seems valid. If you use *hot* water instead of cold water,this becomes a type of hot-water crust pastry. I'm looking at the recipefor this in Mrs Beeton. Her recipe requires a *rest* once the flour, fat,& liquid have been kneaded together. The rest makes the dough stretchy &easier to work with. Could this be what your recipe wants us to do?The recipes that follow this call for the bread to be made "into shapes,using an appropriate mould". Any idea what these looked like?
Cindy
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 23:11:46 -0500
From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd at gate.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Khushkananaj (was: Ideal vs. practical)
David Waines in his book "In a Caliph's Kitchen" presents on page 68 his
redaction of Khushknanaj from al-Baghdadi's manual. his translation on page
69 is identical to that in His Grace's Miscellany. His ingredient list is a
follows:
175g./6 oz. strong white flour
15g./1/2 oz yeast
50g/2 oz. ground almonds
1 teaspoon ground coriander
1 teaspoon ground cinnamon
1 tablespoon olive oil
2-3 tablespoons rosewater
3 tablespoons milk
1 teaspoon granulated sugar
40g/ 1 and 1/2 oz. granulated sugar
15g/ 1/2 oz chopped almonds
pinch of salt
His directions are as follows:
Sieve the flour in a bowl with the salt
Cream the yeast with the one teaspoon of sugar and a little water and add to
flour. Add the tablespoon of olive oil. Add sufficient tepid water so as
to mix dough to a firm consistency and knead on a floured board for 10
minutes. Cover bowl and proof for 1.5 hours.
For stuffing mix together ground almonds, castor sugar, coriander and the
cinnamon. When mixed bind mixture into a stiff paste by gradually adding
rosewater.
When dough has risen turn it out onto a floured board and knead for a couple
of minutes. Cut dough into 10 equal portions and roll each into flat thin
ovals. Take a tenth of the stuffing shape it into a pencil thick roll 1
inch shorter than the length of the dough ovals. Place stuffing on dough,
wet edges with water and seal the stuffing in and shape into cylinder rolls.
Place rolls on greased sheet and bake in hot oven 230C/450F until browned.
While the rolls bake make glaze by melting the granulated sugar into the
milk in a pot over low heat. When mixed take off heat and add 1 tablespoon
of rose water. When rolls are done brush with glaze and sprinkle each with
a little chopped almond.
All in all a nice book but now out of print. I picked up my copy at Pennsic
about 10 years back.
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 23:12:26 -0800
From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Khushkananaj (was: Ideal vs. practical)
At 11:11 PM -0500 3/26/99, Daniel Phelps wrote:
>David Waines in his book "In a Caliph's Kitchen" presents on page 68 his
>redaction of Khushknanaj from al-Baghdadi's manual. his translation on page
>69 is identical to that in His Grace's Miscellany. His ingredient list is a
>follows:
>175g./6 oz. strong white flour
>15g./1/2 oz yeast
>50g/2 oz. ground almonds
>1 teaspoon ground coriander
>1 teaspoon ground cinnamon
>1 tablespoon olive oil
The original starts:
Take fine white flour, and with every ratl mix three uqiya of sesame-oil,
kneading into a firm paste.
The original recipe gives an explicit ratio, by weight, for flour to oil--4
to one (a ratl has 12 uqiya) and specifies what kind of oil to use. The
recipe you quote from Waines has a ratio of more than 12 to one, and
specifies a different kind of oil. So it looks as though the book is not to
be trusted--something I didn't know, not having noticed that he had that
recipe.
His glaze of melted sugar and milk correspond to nothing in the original.
It rather looks as though he is using a modern middle eastern recipe that
is vaguely similar to the medieval one, but that's only a guess.
David/Cariadoc
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 08:17:23 -0500
From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd at gate.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Khushkananaj (was: Ideal vs. practical)
His Grace wrote:
>The original recipe gives an explicit ratio, by weight, for flour to oil--4
>to one (a ratl has 12 uqiya) and specifies what kind of oil to use. The
>recipe you quote from Waines has a ratio of more than 12 to one, and
>specifies a different kind of oil. So it looks as though the book is not to
>be trusted--something I didn't know, not having noticed that he had that
>recipe.
>
>His glaze of melted sugar and milk correspond to nothing in the original.
>It rather looks as though he is using a modern middle eastern recipe that
>is vaguely similar to the medieval one, but that's only a guess.
When last I made khushknanaj I used sesame oil but did not notice the
ratio difference. I will correct the ratio in the future. I did not glaze
it as Waines suggests but I did brush it with a egg glaze during the baking
process. I made the dough in a brace of bread machines set on dough mode,
if I remember correctly it was a production run of tasties for some small event.
Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 11:49:09 +1000
From: "Gwynydd of Culloden" <gwynydd_of_culloden at yahoo.com.au>
Subject: baklava recipe (was Re: SC - Help with Cooking period Italian food.)
From: Elisabetta
> I am invited to a feast at the Potrero war
> in May and was requested to bring baklava - is baklava period does anyone
> know? Or is there something similar to baklava that *is* period?
Hi, I am sorry it has taken me so long to get back to you with this, but I
was waiting on a reply from Hrolf Hrolfsen about his baklava. Here is his
response to my request for a recipe for it and also for documentation. This
should help, although you will see that he is not saying that this recipe is
definitely period - simply that he believes there to be a good chance that
it does not stray far from the original (at least, that is how I read this
message. I will get onto the people he mentioned and see if they can help.
"The recipe is easy. As for documentation - someone else seems to have my
recipe books. Try Min or Lorix as the most likely culprits. In fact you
can easily document the existence of baklava by finding early collections of
Mullah Nasrudin stories (which date from the 13th century). There are
several which involve baklava by name as it was his favourite dessert. As
for the recipe, until I get my books back, I honestly cannot remember. I
can say that this is one of the areas of the world where methods do not
change (with the exception of the tomato / tamarind swap and the ready
adoption of chilli - which was done in period) over the centuries.
Baklawa
500g fillo pastry (note 22 sheets) 1 1/2 cup melted sameh or unsalted butter
Nut filling
2 egg whites
1/2 cup castor sugar
2 cups coarsely ground walnuts
2 cups medium ground almonds
1 teaspoon rosewater
note that the nuts should be a bit under a level "scoop" when buying. Be a
little generous with all your quantities when in doubt.
Atar Syrup
2 cups granulated sugar
1 1/2 cups water
1 teaspoon lemon juice
2 teaspoon rose water
Stack 7-8 sheets fillo pastry on a flat surface, keeping remainder covered
with a damp tea towel. Brush top sheet of stack with butter, lift sheet and
replace on stack, butter side down. Brush top with butter, lift two sheets
and turn over on stack. Repeat until all 7-8 sheets are buttered, lifting
an extra sheet each time. Top and bottom of finished stack should remain
unbuttered. With kitchen scissors cut the buttered stack of fillo into
squares (we get 24 to a sheet). Prepare remainder of fillo, folding or
cutting to achieve 10 layers. Beat egg whites until stiff and beat sugar in
gradually. Fold in nuts and rose water. Butter top of fillo square and
place a spoonful of nut mix in the centre. Gently raise the corners and
fold into a lily shape. Place close together in a buttered 25 x 33 cm
baking dish. Place into the centre of a preheated 1808C (3508F) oven for 30
minutes, reducing this to 1408C (2858F) and cooking for a further 15
minutes.
Meanwhile, dissolve the sugar in water over heat, add lemon juice and bring
to the boil. Boil for 15 minutes, stir in rose water and cool. Spoon syrup
over hot pastries and leave to cool - preferably overnight.
This cooling, btw, is the centre of at least one of the Nasruddin stories.
Hrolf"
I hope this was of use to you,
Lady Gwynydd of Culloden
Barony of Ynys Fawr in the Principality of Lochac part of the Kingdom of the
West
Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2001 05:26:15 +0200
From: tgl at mailer.uni-marburg.de
Subject: SC - baklava
Here are two small observations; I am sure others will come up with
other and earlier references:
- -- Hedda Reindl-Kiel in an article about turkish cuisine in the "Archiv
f¸r Kulturgeschichte" (77/1995) says that baklava is mentioned in the
account-books of a diplomatic banquet in 1650 (p. 70 note 45).
- -- Rodinson in his article "Recherches sur les documents arabes ..."
mentions an arabic dish called "Kul wa-skur" from the 'Wusla' (13th
century) which seems to have been similar to baklava (p. 140, note 7):
"Le _Kul wa-skur_ est encore connu au Liban et a Damas. Mlle Victoria
Huzami me le definit comme une sorte de baqlawa compose de deux couches
de pate entre lesquelles on met du sucre, des amandes, etc." (all
accents left out).
Th.
Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 23:26:35 -0700
From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Subject: Re: baklava recipe (was Re: SC - Help with Cooking period Italian food.)
Hrolf Hrolfsen apparently wrote, about Baklava:
>"The recipe is easy. As for documentation - someone else seems to have my
>recipe books. Try Min or Lorix as the most likely culprits. In fact you
>can easily document the existence of baklava by finding early collections of
>Mullah Nasrudin stories (which date from the 13th century). There are
>several which involve baklava by name as it was his favourite dessert.
1. Do we know whether "baklava" (in the modern arabic form) is in
the 13th c. original? If not, "baklava" might be simply the
translator's guess at the nearest modern equivalent. Indeed, are
there any surviving 13th c. Nasrudin stories (i.e. ones we have in
the form they were written down then), or is that merely a conjecture
about when the stories we now have originated?
2. Even if the original said "baklava," without a recipe we can't
tell if it is what we now call "baklava." "Harisa" is a very common
medieval Islamic dish--and has almost nothing in common with two
modern middle eastern dishes that have the same name. Or compare
medieval gingerbrede with modern gingerbread. Or compare modern
halvah with hulwa in period.
3. I am reasonably sure that none of the three medieval Islamic
cookbooks that I know reasonably well has a recipe for what we call
baklava. There are recipes that produce lots of thin layers of dough
(I'm thinking of Musamanna, which I made yesterday), but it isn't
made the way filo is made. There are lots of recipes with pastry and
nuts and sugar and butter, but that doesn't add up to baklava.
4. On the other hand, I think I saw something somewhere by Charles
Perry referring to a medieval baklava--and he knows lots about
medieval Islamic cooking.
- --
David/Cariadoc
http://www.daviddfriedman.com/
Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 18:27:37 +1000
From: Mark Calderwood <mark-c at acay.com.au>
Subject: SC - Re: baklava
>Hrolf Hrolfsen apparently wrote, about Baklava:
>>"The recipe is easy.
The recipe quoted by Hrolf is from p218, The Complete Middle Eastern
Cookbook, by Tess Mallos (Landsdowne 1979), and called baklawa be'aj. No
date or references are given.
Claudia Roden, in A New Book of Middle Eastern Food, (Penguin 1970) states
that "the pastries (baklava and kadayif) are not mentioned in medieval
Persian or Arabic works, and seem to have made their appearance in the
region during the time of the Ottoman empire" and lists as references
al-Baghdadi, the Kitab al-Tabikh (1239), the Kitab al-Wusla tec (before
1261). Roden a