whale-meat-msg – 10/18/14

Use of whale meat in period. Recipes. Substitutions.

NOTE: See also the files: whales-msg, fish-msg, salmon-msg, horse-recipes-msg, pickled-meats-msg, fish-pies-msg, exotic-meats-msg, eels-msg, frogs-msg, blood-dishes-msg.

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    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
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Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 11:38:47 -0600
From: "ysabeau" <ysabeau at mail.ev1.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks]Whale/Porpoise meat
To: Cooks within the SCA  <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

I work for a Japanese company so I just turned around and asked a
couple of co-workers. They said whale meat is really tough and
stringy. They likened it to brisket as far as texture and
toughness. I'm not sure how that correlates to the description
below. They said it is usually served in thin strips because it is
so tough. One of them said it has more of a "sweetish/sour" taste
than beef. They both said they didn't like it and that it needs to
be cooked for a long time in a sauce.

Ysabeau
Barony of Bryn Gwlad
Ansteorra

---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Jeff Elder <scholari at verizon.net>
Reply-To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 11:32:29 -0600

> Another Article about whale meat:
> http://observer.guardian.co.uk/foodmonthly/story/0,9950,547250,00.html
>
> and an excerpt on flavor from same article:
> Syotaro Akiyama, a photographer from south Japan, is a vocal
advocate of eating whales since he first tried it in the 1960s in
a sushi restaurant. He wrote: 'I placed it in my mouth, chewed it
three times and it just melted and spread through my whole mouth
flavouring the rice. As I swallowed it, the taste was better than
the richest cut of blue fin tuna. I still remember thinking how
could anything taste this delicious? Heated through, it tastes
like meat; uncooked it is like fish.' But the powerful flavour is
not to everyone's taste. 'I hated it at school - we always used to
have it with lots of ginger to hide the taste and make it
palatable. I wouldn't go near it now,' said my Japanese guide.
>
> Simon Hondy


Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 14:01:19 -0500
From: Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise <jenne at fiedlerfamily.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks]
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> Anyone have any idea of what to replace Porpoise with?  I have no personal
> desire to cook that particular animal. Redoing one of the Henry`s wedding
> feast in April and its on the menu.

Venison. Someone from period writes that you use porpoise on fast days
to replace venison... so the reverse would also be true, I expect.
--  
-- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne at fiedlerfamily.net  


Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 13:58:14 -0700
From: James Prescott <prescotj at telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks]
To: jenne at fiedlerfamily.net, Cooks within the SCA
	<sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

At 14:01 -0500 2004-12-06, Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise wrote:
>>  Anyone have any idea of what to replace Porpoise with?  I have no  
>> personal desire to cook that particular animal. Redoing one of the Henry`s  
>> wedding feast in April and its on the menu.
>
>  Venison. Someone from period writes that you use porpoise on fast days
>  to replace venison... so the reverse would also be true, I expect.

Viandier has an indirect reference to this.  In recipe 144 Porpoise
we have "Split it along the back, cook it in water, and slice it into
strips like venison."  This does not prove that venison was a suitable
alternative, but does suggest that the possibility was in the mind of
the author.

On the other hand, the venison recipes in Viandier are not particularly
similar to the porpoise recipe.

In Chiquart Scully says in a footnote "The Venison of Dolphin is a
dish made simply by preparing this fish according to the standard
recipe for large game meat"; and there is a recipe for Fresh Dolphin
and a recipe for Salted Dolphin.  In the latter recipe we have the
explicit "It is served, in place of venison, with rice."

Thorvald


Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 20:49:37 -0600
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.at.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks]
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> Anyone have any idea ofwhat to replace Porpoise with?  I have no personal
> desire to cook that particular animal. Redoing one of the Henry`s wedding
> feast in April and its on the menu.
> Da

Does the menu specifically call for porpoise or dolphin?   Corypheana
hippurus is found worldwide and has been referred to as dolphin for a long
time (along with porpoises and other critters).  You may know it better by
its Hawaiian name, mahi-mahi.

Bear


Date: Tue, 07 De 2004 09:08:47 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Porpoise recipes
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

The 15th  century Beinecke recipe collection at Yale
which was published as An Ordinance of Pottage by Hieatt contains
porpoise recipes. Number 26 is Numbelys of purpas or of
other fish; number 27 is Purpays yn galenteyn and number
28is Purpays or venyson in broth.

So even in the actual English texts you have in recipe 26 subsituting
"venison," "codlying, congir, and of other gode fyssh also."
Number 28 says: "make venyson in broth in the same manner."

Thorvald already noted that this was the practice in
some of the French manuscripts, so substitution was apparently
commonly done. Hieatt again suggests that they ate
porpoise in Lent and venison or beef in the recipe
otherwise.

Johnnae llyn Lewis


Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 07:37:42 -0800
From: David Walddon <david at vastrepast.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Whale meat

I believe that there are a few articles on Whale meat in PPC and in the
Oxford Symposium papers. I do not have access to the index at the moment but check there as well as Davidson.

Eduardo 

On 1/19/10 7:30 AM, "Vandy J. Simpson" <vsimpson at gto.net> wrote:
<<< So tell me, does anyone have any favoured recipes for whale? I'm primarily
interested in early period/Norse food, but realize that in that case I could
probably just throw bits in kettle over the fire. I think I'd like to optimize
this one time experience!

I understand there are probably some 'traditional' Norwegian recipes, but
thus far I'm only finding vague hints.

Mortraeth, Ealdormere / Vandy, Ontario, Canada >>>


Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 09:21:50 -0700
From: edoard at medievalcookery.com
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Whale meat

A quick medieval cookbook search turned up only two references to whale:

On a fish day, when the peas are cooked, you should have onions which
have been cooked as long as the peas in a pot and like the bacon cooked
separately in another pot, and as with the bacon water you may nourish
and serve the peas, in the same way; on fish days, when you have put
your peas on the fire in a pot, you must put aside your minced onions in
another pot, and with onion water serve and nourish the peas; and when
all is cooked fry the onions and put half of them in the peas, and the
other half in the liquid from the peas of which I spoke above, and then
add salt, And if on this fish day or in Lent there is salted whale-meat,
you must do with the whale-meat as with the bacon on a meat day.
[Le Menagier de Paris]

GRASPOIS This is salted whale, and should be sliced raw and cooked in
water like bacon; and serve with peas.
[Le Menagier de Paris]

Maybe if you have enough you can salt some of it.  ;-)

- Doc


Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 15:24:16 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Whale meat

Nanna mentions whale meat in her book
Icelandic Food & Cookery.

There really aren't any surviving early period Norse recipes of any  
sort. The latest TI which arrived today talks about Norse foods.

There are traditional recipes for whale meat.
http://www.highnorth.no/library/Culture/Recipes/no-wh-me.htm

Apparently they also ate whale meat during WWII in Britain and there were recipes created then because no one knew what to do with it. Those might be findable.

Johnnae


Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 13:33:27 -0800 (PST)
From: H Westerlund-Davis <yaini0625 at yahoo.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Whale meat

Trying to get whale meat in the U.S. will be impossible to get. Tried it, even with my Systr-in law living in Iceland. Only a few countries actually still serve whale and even horse.

Jo's Icelandic Recipes have both modern and period recipes for Icelandic diets, including whale.  Binky whale has a very nice mild and gentle taste with the texture of Coby beef.

Iceland is like a frozen time capsule for all things Viking, including the language. 
http://www.simnet.is/gullis/jo/
Whale recipe: http://icecook.blogspot.com/2006/08/how-to-cook-whale.html

Aelina the Saami....still looking for a good Skyr recipe.


Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 13:49:12 -0800 (PST)
From: emilio szabo <emilio_szabo at yahoo.it>
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: [Sca-cooks] whale meat and whaling

Not what you were asking for, but maybe providing background for culinary uses.

De Smet, W.M.A. (1981):
Evidence of Whaling in the North Sea and English Channel during the Middle Ages. 
In: Mammals in the Seas. Volume III: General papers and large cetaceans. Rome, 301-309.

It's available at books.google.com

E.


Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 12:31:10 -0700
From: "Dana Kramer-Rolls" <danadkr at yahoo.com>
To: <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Whale meat

I had whale at my pension in Oslo in 1958, when I was doing a summer at the University of Oslo.  It was much like beef, a red meat, and it was trimmed, so not at all greasy, and if I remember, it was served in cutlet sized slabs with a gravy, but that is all I remember. Of course, now some of us are in a battle with Norway about hunting whale. 

Sir Maythen


Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2014 18:36:46 -0200
From: Ana Vald?s <agora158 at gmail.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Early French whaling

In Norway I ate whale and I found it really tasteless, it was cooked with potatoes and carrots, really bland :(
It tasted a bit as chicken's white meat.

Ana

Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2014 21:58:02 -0500 (EST)
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Early French whaling

> In Norway I ate whale and I found it really tasteless

Sounds like a little ginger-almond sauce might be just the ticket.

My impression is that what medieval eaters ate was mainly the blubber. Which probably doesn't taste like chicken, though it might resemble very intense chicken skin.

Jim  Chevallier
(http://www.chezjim.com/) www.chezjim.com

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Edited by Mark S. Harris	whale-meat-msg	3 of 6