venison-msg – 3/14/14 Medieval and modern recipes for venison. NOTE: See also the files: meat-smoked-msg, organ-meats-msg, roast-meats-msg, sausages-msg, stews-bruets-msg, hunting-msg, butchering-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ Date: Wed, 08 Oct 1997 16:16:56 -0400 From: Aine of Wyvernwood Subject: Re: SC - Small Feasts Later as an adult, each yr for about 12 yrs, I had this running party at new yrs...many told that they came for my venison pot roast. As I lived in the High Country of Colorado where mule deer abound, sorta like rats on a wharf... much of my diet was game. I sear the venison on both sides, then roll in flour to make a light coating then sear again to sorta cook and bronw the flour...oh, before I drop the venison in the bit of hot olive oil, I added some crushed garlic about 2-3 cloves worth.... then the meat. Ater all that I add water to cover, then diced celery, onions salt peper and a couple of bay leaves, and simmer on very low for ages until the meat is fork tender. I serve it sliced with gravy over rice. the gravy can be thickened one of two ways....with cornstarch or roux. to make a roux you take a dry clean cast iron skillet on about medium heat.... add about 2 cups of flour...dry.... use a spatula or pancake turner to keep the flour moving, the object is to brown the flour to a medium brown evenly without burning. I only use a about 2 tablespoons to make the gravy, the rest can be saved in an airtight container in the fridge for later use.... I add a bit of oil and drop into the broth....the oil melts and keeps the flour from making lumpy gravy. I use this same recipe with a pork roast as well...but, since my kids think that garlic [which I love] is in the same category as poison...I only use a tiny bit... aine Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 16:09:35 -0500 From: "Louise Sugar" Subject: SC - Fw: recipe for venison from one of my friends over in Steirbach...(actually the new Baroness as of 2 weeks from tomorrow) - -----Original Message----- Date: Friday, February 06, 1998 3:01 PM Subject: recipe for venison >Venison with Almonds > >6 servings > >1/2 c Crushed pineapple 2 c Cooked, cubed Elk or Deer >2 tb Margarine or butter 1/2 c Sliced celery >1 1/2 tb Cornstarch 1/2 c Slivered toasted almonds >1/2 c Pineapple juice 1 ts Salt >2 c Meat stock > > Brown pineapple in the margarine or butter for 5 minutes. Mix > cornstarch with pineapple juice. Add mixture and meat stock to the > browned pineapple. Cook over low heat, stirring constantly, until > thickened. Boil 2 minutes, then add meat, celery, almonds and salt. > Allow to heat through and serve with rice or chow mein noodles. Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 16:09:53 -0500 From: "Louise Sugar" Subject: SC - Fw: more venison from one of my friends over in Steirbach...(actually the new Baroness as of 2 weeks from tomorrow) - -----Original Message----- Date: Friday, February 06, 1998 3:03 PM Subject: more venison >Roast Venison > >6 servings > > 4 lb Venison roast; 1 lg Onion (sliced) > -elk,moose,or deer) 1 cn Tomatoes (14 oz can) > 2 tb Flour MARINADE > 2 Cloves garlic (minced) 1/2 c Vinegar > 2 tb Brown sugar 2 Cloves garlic (minced) > 1 ts Prepared mustard 2 tb Salt > 1 tb Worcestershire sauce Cold water to cover meat > 1/4 c Vinegar or lemon juice > > Marinade the venison over night in the refrigerator. Season with > salt, roll in flour and brown in hot skillet. Place in crock-pot > cooker and add remaining ingredients. Cover and cook on low 10 to 12 > hours. MARINADE: Mix ingredients together in a bowl just large enough > to cover venison with water. No need to stir this marinade. Use for > "red" meats (including rabbits) or game birds. Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 16:10:11 -0500 From: "Louise Sugar" Subject: SC - Fw: roast venison from one of my friends over in Steirbach...(actually the new Baroness as of 2 weeks from tomorrow) - -----Original Message----- Date: Friday, February 06, 1998 3:05 PM Subject: roast venison >Roast Leg of Venison, Unmarinated > > 10 servings > >10 Larding strips 1 1/2 - 2" 1 tb Powdered thyme >(about 1/4-1/2 lb salt pork) 3 tb Flour >6 lb Leg of venison Salt & pepper to taste >2 Cloves garlic, sliced thin 2 1/4 c Stock or beef broth >1/4 lb Butter, softened > >1. Lard the venison with the salt pork, adding the garlic slices after the > salt pork has been inserted. > >2. Rub all surfaces of the leg with soft butter and dust with the powdered >thyme. > >3. Put roast in uncovered roasting pan, add 1/2 cup liquid, and roast at 325¯F >for about two hours. Venison should be srved rare, but not bloody, so figure >about 16 minutes per pound. > >4. Turn off oven, open the door, and wave it open several times to reduce heat. >Place the roast in a metal pan and keep hot--don not roast anymore. > >5. In the roasting pan, combine flour and drippings, stirring in the stock. >Heat pan on stovetop and cook on high heat, stirring constantly, until gravy is >thickened to proper consistency. Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 16:10:31 -0500 From: "Louise Sugar" Subject: SC - Fw: deer steaks from one of my friends over in Steirbach...(actually the new Baroness as of 2 weeks from tomorrow) - -----Original Message----- Date: Friday, February 06, 1998 3:06 PM Subject: deer steaks >Onion Buttered Deer Steak > >1 servings > >Butter sauce: > > 1/2 c Butter 1/2 ts Dry mustard > 1/4 c Minced onion 1/2 ts Freshly ground pepper > 2 ts Worcestershire or soy sauce > > In small saucepan, combine ingredients. Heat together until butter > melts. Broil 3 to 4 inches from heat for 10 to 12 minutes each side > for rare, 14 to 16 minutes for medium, brushing with butter mixture. Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 16:10:49 -0500 From: "Louise Sugar" Subject: SC - Fw: easy venison roast from one of my friends over in Steirbach...(actually the new Baroness as of 2 weeks from tomorrow) - -----Original Message----- Date: Friday, February 06, 1998 3:09 PM Subject: easy venison roast >Easy Venison Roast >4 servings > >3 lb Chunk of venison roast >2 tb Liquid smoke >2 c Onion - 2 inch dice >3 tb (or more) Worchestershire > >3 tb (or more) Soy Sauce >2 c Potato - 2 inch dice >1 c Carrots - 2 inch dice >1 c mushrooms sliced >1/2 c Beef broth > Put a LARGE oven cooking bag in an oblong baking pan (so > that the bag fits inside the pan). To the bag, add the venison. Add > all liquids, then veggies around the meat. Put the 'shrooms on top of > everything else, then the spices on top of them. You want to have > about 1 inch of liquid in the bottom of the bag, so if you need more, > add a little water (or white wine!- white wine is very nice.) > > Seal bag. Poke several small holes in top of bag to let steam escape. > Bake at 300-325 for 3-1/2 hours. (If you chop the veggies big, they > won't overcook). Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 14:40:03 -0400 From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow) Subject: Re: SC - Subing???? >By chance does someone have a period recipe for Deer Stew/Roast From "Take a Thousand Eggs or More", v2 p. 464: Harleian MS. 4016, c. 1450 6 Venyson in broth. Take rybbes of venyson, and wassh hem faire in Water, And streyn the Water thorgh a Streynour into a faire potte, and cast [th]e Venyson thereto, parcely, Sauge, powder of peper, cloue[3], Maces, Vinegre, salt, And late hem boile til [th]ei be ynow, & serue it forth. 6 Venison in broth. Take ribs of venison, and wash them fair in Water, And strain the Water through a Strainer into a fair pot, and cast the Venison thereto, parsley, Sage, powder of pepper, cloves, Maces, Vinegar, salt, And let them boil till they are enough, & serve it forth. Cindy Renfrow/Sincgiefu renfrow at skylands.net Author & Publisher of "Take a Thousand Eggs or More, A Collection of 15th Century Recipes" and "A Sip Through Time, A Collection of Old Brewing Recipes" Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 20:32:21 -0600 From: pndarvis at execpc.com Subject: Re: SC - Subing???? >Loose the dead goat, and no the juniper berries are for flavor[they help >cover a gamey taste if the deer has one] and you got a good recipe[though you >might try throwing in some red currents as well as the pine nuts if you like] >margali Actually I found that if you have a bit of venison you are worried about being gamey, we (meaning Kateryn and I) found a Middle Eastern recipe that is completely period that uses vegetable broth that has a strong onion base and rosemary for broiling the venison first. You then add the braised or broiled chunks with whole beans like large green beans and stewed tomatos, plus some more of the broth. we found simmering the venison with the broth mix added better flavor because of the meat juices being mixed in. It got rave reviews, but since I'm the vegetarian I only tasted the broth. Elisabeth the Terrible shari burnham Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 10:14:40 -0500 From: Haynes <"an1197 at arrownet.com" at mail.arrownet.com> Subject: Re: SC - venison Micaylah wrote: > And there may also be venison farms, There is an Deer Farming Organization that takes their venison seriously: try this URL: http://www.nadefa.org/ There are links to venison producers. Bill Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 09:18:13 -0700 From: Susan Fox-Davis Subject: Re: SC - venison Here in the Barony of Angels, we get New Zealand farm venison from better butchers. Available in haunches, chops, chopped for stew and ground. One of my best 'improve' dishes has been 'Bambi Bourgignon,' a simple stew of venison, cheap red wine, onions and torn-up rye bread, those being what I had on hand for thickening. CHEAP jug wine is preferred over good drinkable stuff, its acid and tannin content having a tenderizing effect. > > >It used to be that raising deer, boar, bear, et al for the table was illegal in the USA. Why, I have no idea, as we have such a large and wonderful fish farm program for re-stocking lakes, streams, etc. Almost every state has something like that. >>> I don't know why either. Our local deer, the small mule deer, is said to be not particularly good eating. Selene Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 01:47:04 EST From: Mordonna22 at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - Venison wulf at hilconet.com writes: > I have an odd request..I need some good medieval recipes for roasts > of venison. I am not picky about the method of cooking. Not Period, but I do have three ideas: Cover roast in bacon or suet, salt, pepper, parsley, and thyme. Wrap in aluminum foil. Roast over a slow fire. Cut into steaks (1/2 to 3/4 inch thick), hack meat with the open end of a coca cola bottle or the weapon of your choice until tenderized and about half as thick. Soak overnight in buttermilk. Add salt and pepper. Dredge in plain flour. Fry in hot oil or lard. Cut into small chunks and grind with an equal amount of beef suet. Add seasonings of your choice. Make patties and grill over an oak or hickory fire. Mordonna DuBois Kingdom of Atenveldt Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 03:17:44 EST From: korrin.daardain at juno.com (Korrin S DaArdain) Subject: Re: SC - Venison On Sun, 15 Nov 1998 19:48:15 +0000 wulf at hilconet.com writes: > I have an odd request..I need some good medieval recipes for >roasts of venison. I am not picky about the method of cooking...it can be on >spit, or in a conventional oven, but I am getting desperate for some >variety. This years hunting season is REALLY testing my knowledge of >game cooking (not that it was very large to begin with lol) and I >would really appreciate the assistance. > >Lady Elsbeth >Touen These are the only ones that I have that are medieval. Korrin S. DaArdain Kitchen Steward of Household Port Karr Kingdom of An Tir in the Society for Creative Anachronism. Korrin.DaArdain at Juno.com, (www.geocities.com/NapaValley/Vineyard/1709) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Broiled Venison The Medieval Cookbook by Maggie Black Chapter 7, “Courtly and Christmas Feasting” posted by Tiffany Hall-Graham The syde of a dere of hie grece. Wesch hem, do hem on a broch. Scotch hem ovyrtwarte & ayenne crosswyse in the maner of losyngys in the flesch syde. Rost hym; take redde wyn, poudyr of gynger, poudyr of pepyr & salt, and bast hit till hit be thorow. Have a chargeour undyrneth & kepe the fallyng, and bast hit therwith ayene. Then take hit of & smyte hit as thu lyst & serve hit forth. 6 x 1-cm/ 1/2-inch-thick slices venison fillet or haunch Bacon fat or lard for rubbing Pepper sauce for veal or venison to serve Basting Sauce: 350 ml/12 fl oz/1 1/2 cups red wine 3 tablespoons oil 1/8 teaspoon ground ginger 1/8 teaspoon Salt and 1/8 teaspoon Black pepper Venison fillet was the most prized cut. It might be scored in lozenge shapes with a knife point or parboiled and larded with salt pork before being spit-roasted whole. Modern farmed venison, however, seems to be tenderized better by being marinated. Combine all the basting sauce ingredients and soak the venison slices in the sauce for at least 2-3 hours; elderly meat will need longer. Pour off the sauce into a jug when you are ready to cook. Put the meat on a board and pat it dry, then nick the edges of the slices and rub them all over with the fat. Thread the slices on skewers or lay them on a greased grill grid. Heat the grill to medium-high and grill the meat like steak until medium-rare or well done, as you wish. (For well-done meat, reduce the temperature after searing both sides and cook slowly.) Baste the meat with the reserved basting sauce while cooking and turn it once using a fish slice; do not prod it with a fork. When done, transfer the slices to a warmed serving platter, and serve at once, with the hot Pepper Sauce in a sauce boat. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Stekys of Venson or Bef (Cinnamon Beef) From Halreian MS 279. Posted by Rudd Rayfield (RuddR at aol.com) Take venyson or Bef, & leche & gredyl it vp broun; (th)en take Vynegre & a litel verious, & a lytil Wyne, & putte pouder perpir (th)er-on y-now, and pouder Gyngere; & atte (th)e dressoure straw on pouder Canelle y-now, (th)at (th)e stekys be al y-helid (th)er-wyth, & but a litel Sawce; & (th)an serue it forth. (I substitute apple juice and cider vinegar for verjuice.) 2 pounds lean venison, beef, veal, or pork steaks 1 T wine vinegar 1 T cider vinegar 3 T unsweetened apple juice 1/4 C dry wine 1/4 tsp each black pepper and powdered ginger Cinnamon to taste Trim the steaks and cut them into thin strips about three inches long. Cook the meat through in a heavy frying pan, over medium heat, or in a broiler, or on a griddle or grill. In a bowl, combine the two kinds of vinegar, apple juice, wine, pepper and ginger. Place the meat on a serving dish, pour the sauce over it, and sprinkle it with cinnamon before serving. Serves four to six. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 15:54:51 -0600 From: "Diana Skaggs" Subject: SC - Venison recipe OOP If the venison came from a young buck or doe, I've chunked or ground it and made "Deer Stroganof" 1# venison stew meat Flour, salt & pepper 1 Tbsp vegetable oil 1 bay leaf 1 large onion, chopped 4 oz can mushroom ends & pieces 2 cups beef stock 1/4 cup dry red wine 8 oz carton of sour cream Cooked rice or noodles Make a dredge of flour, salt & pepper. Heat the oil over medium heat. Dredge the venison in the flour mixture and fry in batches until just browned. In the same pan, cook the onion until translucent. Return meat to the pan, add a couple of tablespoons of the dredge to the pan and stir until browned. Add beef stock and red wine. Stir and cook until it begins to thicken and meat is cooked through. Remove the bay leaf. Add mushroom ends & pieces then sour cream. Heat, but don't boil. Serve over noodles or rice. Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 00:24:47 EST From: geneviamoas at juno.com Subject: Re: SC - Venison - OOP cookbook While it does not have Period recipes as such I have a cookbook entitled _The Complete Venison Cookbook_ by Harold W. Webster, Jr. ISBN 0-937552-70-4 (c)1996 Quail Ridge Press. It is over 400 pgs of recipes for Venison in all its incarnations and the good stuff that goes with it. Here is their recipe for (pg 107) Herbed Venison Round Roast in a Salt Crust. 1/3 cup olive oil 1/4 cup grated onion 1 tsp. garlic salt 1 tsp dried basil leaves 1/2 tsp. dried marjoram leaves 1/2 tsp dried thyme leaves 1/4 tsp. black pepper 1 (2 1/2 to 3 lb.) venison round roast 1 (3 lb.) box Morton Coarse Kosher Salt 1 1/4 cups water Combine olive oil, onion, garlic salt, basil leaves,marjoram leaves, thyme leaves, and black pepper in a heavy 1-gallon plastic bag and mix well. Add venison roast and marinate in a refridgerate overnight. Line a roasting pan with aluminum foil. Combine salt and water to make a thick paste. Pat 1 cup salt paste into a 1/2" thick rectangle in the bottom of the pan. Pat roast dry and insert a meat thermometer. Place roast on the salt layer; pack the remaining salt paste around the meat to well. Bake at 275 degrees until meat thermometer reads 140 degrees: 1 1/2 to 2 hours. Steam may cause the salt crust to crack slightly during the roasting. Remove the roast from the oven; let stand for 10 minutes. Remove and discard the calt crust. Serves 8 - 10. Loads of yummy looking recipes and no hunters... Heavy sigh.. Genevia Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 06:45:06 -0600 From: vjarmstrong at aristotle.net (Valoise Armstrong) Subject: Re: SC - Venison Lady Elsbeth wrote: > I have an odd request..I need some good medieval recipes for roasts >of venison. I am not picky about the method of cooking...it can be on >spit, or in a conventional oven, but I am getting desperate for some >variety. Not an odd request at all. Here are a couple of venison recipes from Sabina Welserin. You might also think about mincemeat pies. One of my first SCA cooking experiences was making mincemeat pies from scratch. IIRC (this was 15 years ago and my memory isn't what it used to be) the recipe called for moose or some such beast but, those being nonexistent in central Texas, we substituted beef. Best mincemeat I ever ate. I know I've seen recipes for game pies in German sources. I don't have time to look them up now, but if you like, I can do it this evening. Here are Sabina Welser's venison recipes: 7 To make a sauce in which to put a haunch of venison Lard it well and roast it and make a good sauce for it. Take Reinfal and stir cherry syrup into it, and fry Lebkuchen in fat and chop good sweet apples, almonds, cloves, cinnamon sticks, ginger, currants, pepper and raisins and let it all cook together. When you want to serve it, then pour the sauce over it. It is also for marinating a boar's head. Then cook it in two parts water and one third vinegar. The head of a pig is also made in this manner. 167 To make venison sausage Take the liver and the lungs from a red deer, also good roast meat and deer fat, bacon, spices, saffron, ginger and mace as well, chop it all together and cook the sausage in a suitable broth. Valoise Subject: venison Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 11:33:36 -0600 From: "Diana Skaggs" To: Stefan, my husband hunts deer every year, with varying luck. We found out years ago that the butcher shops can not or will not process deer meat the way we like it. So, we cut and wrap our own. In the stroganof recipe, I use approx 1 pound of ground or chunked venison for 4 servings. A couple of deer cooking hints (if you don't already know). Cooking bones along with meat will make the resulting dish more gamey tasting. I have had better luck with thinly sliced venison cooked quickly. Of course, the age of the deer and what they've eaten also affects the flavor. Marinating the venison in milk or salt water will help remove some of the "wild" flavor. At 3 Kings, I made a venison stew that everyone loved. OOP, but easier than peeling vegetables all day! Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 22:07:13 EST From: LrdRas at aol.com Subject: SC - Elk recipe-OOP Deborah.Schumacher at iac.honeywell.com writes: << I had been hoping That the esteemed Ras would come forward with suggestions on the preparation of Elk , but I guess I was wrong. Zoe Valonin the spice trader ( does this make me a medieval spice girl???) >> Tsk! Tsk! Oh, ye of little faith! :-) This recipe was intended originally for venison but the only time I ever had elk given to me I used this recipe and it was WONDERFUL!!!!!:-) Enjoy. Marinated Elk Roast 5 lb elk roast 2 cups Dry red wine 4 ozs Olive oil 2 Bay leaves 4 cloves garlic, chopped 2 tsps Dry mustard 1 tsp Rosemary, crumbled 1 tsp Salt 1 tsp Black pepper, coarsely ground 4 slices Bacon 3 T Flour 4 ozs Red currant jelly Place the roast in a deep bowl. Combine the wine, oil, bay leaves, garlic, mustard, rosemary, salt and papper, and pour over the elk. Cover with foil and refrigerate two days, turning the meat several times. Preheat oven to 435 deg F. Drain the elk and reserve the marinade. Place the meat on a rack in a shallow pan and cover with the bacon strips. Roast for 30 mins., basting several times with the reserved marinade, then reduce the heat to 350 deg F and continue to roast for another 40-60 mins. until interior temperature reaches 130 deg F (rare), 140 deg F (medium) or higher (well- done). Put the roast on a serving platter and keep warm. Set the roasting pan on a burner, add the flour to the pan drippings, and cook until it is browned. Strain the remaining marinade and stir into the pan, cooking until smooth and thickened. Add the currant jelly; cook only until the jelly is melted and blended with the sauce. Carve at the table the way you would a roast of lamb, with the gravy in a sauceboat. - The Fanny Farmer Cookbook (New Edition) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 15:45:46 EST From: Aldyth at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - Need venison advice! I have never had good luck with the taste of the broth when I used venison bones, so by and large I toss them after I butcher. I do roast the ribs though, if I have not stripped them down for jerky. Be careful giving the bones to your dogs, though. Venision is higher in protein then they may be used to, and it can have some nasty consequences to clean up, so to speak. Make sure you remove all visible fat before you package and freeze, or you can get the same gamey taste. Aldyth Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 20:38:09 -0500 From: "Alderton, Philippa" Subject: Re: SC - Need venison advice! Definitely save those bones and use them for broth! The gamy taste which so many people object to actually comes from the fat, and while I like it, it is definitely an acquired taste. If you're not used to it, don't make a stock without roasting the bones first- roasting helps render more of the fat away, so the flavor in that direction isn't as strong, and you'll get more of the browned flavor. If you want to cook venison, remember it's a very lean meat, so you'll have to add extra fat- pork is the most common. Larding or barding help a lot with roasts- a ham hock or some fat back or bacon with soups and stews, and if you grind some up for burger, add some mayonaisse to your burgers or meatloaf- just add your normal ingredients, and the mayo to bring it up to the normal texture you'd want for beef burgers or loaves. Woodsy smelling spices are my favorites- I love adding juniper berries, sage, pepper, rosemary, and like that, though as usual, garlic and hot pepper always find a place..... Phlip Philippa Farrour Caer Frig Southeastern Ohio Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 21:46:07 EST From: LrdRas at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - Need venison advice! JGedney at dictaphone.com writes: << (I hope you saved some of the innards... Venison heart, sliced thin, peppered, breaded, lightly fried in oil and then braised in red wine... yummm) >> The tongue is also good boiled and then sliced and served with blackberry jelly sauce or currant sauce. The testicles are also good eating if boiled, skinned and diced then served with a cameline sauce or as an ingredient in spaghetti sauce. Ras Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 08:08:04 EST From: WOLFMOMSCA at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - Need venison advice! Take all the bones and leavings and put them in a covered roasting pan with enough apple cider & scotch to cover. Roast them at 250 degrees for a long, long time. Eventually, you'll end up with some really great juice. You can then use this juice to marinade beef. We did this at a feast once, and we fooled everyone. Even the seasoned hunters/venison gourmets thought they were eating roasted venison, when in actuality it was just roast beef, soaked in venison juice. Super stuff. Wolfmother Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 22:27:08 EST From: LrdRas at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - Need venison advice! The best advice I know of to give to cooks regarding the preparation of venison is to NOT cook it to death. Cook it just EXACTLY as you would cook the corresponding beef cut. The longer you cook it the stronger it tastes. If you cook it like beef it is a wonderful food and LOW in cholesterol for those who really think such statistics have any real meaning. Ras Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 17:52:50 -0500 From: "B. M. Crumb" Subject: Re: SC - Meat for 250 Steven Cowley wrote: > > Well its off to the races for me. Time for our baronial birthday feast > and revel. It also happens to be the investiture for a new baron and > baroness. You know the type...King and Queen, all of the baronial > cousins, etc. > > Historically, this has been a potluck event...no worries, just come, eat > and enjoy. And, oh by the way bring a period dish that feeds eight > people. Result, a potluck feast with quasi period food at best and fun > was had by all ;-) > > Well the new baron wanted a semi prepared feast (i.e. the barony > provides the meat and the populace brings potluck side dishes). "I > signed up for this? What was I thinking of?" Well, cooking that much > meat for that many people isn't a problem, a little bit of beef, poultry > for those who don't eat red meat and wahlah...dinner is served. > Everything will be cooked on site, the feast coordinator deals with the > cleanup and I am left with a dozen dutch ovens to clean (no small task > in and of itself, but no one touches my dutch ovens). > > Now for the dilemma. The new baron secured about 35 lbs. of venison (a > donation from a brother-in-law) and all of a sudden its a three meat > affair, venison, beef and peacock. Now, I have eaten venison a time or > two, but I have never cooked it. Is venison one of those meats that is > better if cooked on the rare side like beef or the well done side like > pork? Hmm...I guess I could chop it up, throw it all together in a pot > and make a stew . > > But seriously, any suggestions would be a big help. > > Steffan of the Close Being that venison is a game meat, you should avoid rare due to the possibility of parasites. We usually do our steaks and roasts to medium... a bit of pink in the center is fine as long as you don't have "bloody" juices. Because the meat is so lean, "well done" is too dry. If by chance they've given you the tenderloin (it's a pair of muscles about 8-10 inches long and about an inch and a half to two inches in diameter, found on either side of the backbone behind the kidneys when you butcher deer), slice it into scallops and panfry with butter and a bit of garlic and black pepper... This is the absolutely most tender cut of venison in existence. :) If you are going to roast it, be sure to wrap the roasts in fatty bacon because otherwise the meat will be too dry. I'm not sure if it's a period method, but I've found that braising the meat, and cooking the liquid down to almost nothing, gets you very tender, moist meat plus a great deglaze to make a sauce. I usually put the meat on a warm platter and pour in a cup of apple cider (I'm told wine works well too but I don't do alcohol), dissolve the pan drippings, bring to a boil, and thicken with seived breadcrumbs and finely ground almonds. Season to taste with salt and pepper. The latter is not taken from any specific period source. I did the sauce based on some of the saucemaking techniques I've seen mentioned on this list. So it's more "peri-iod" rather than period. Bernadette Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 16:47:30 -0500 From: "Alderton, Philippa" Subject: SC - Apicius Venison Sauce Recipes I just typed this in for a friend, and I thought some of you who don't have Apicius yet might like a copy. Flowers and Rosenbaum , Book VIII, section II 1. Ius in Cervum- Sauce for Venison Crush pepper, lovage, caraway, origan, celery-seed, asafoetida root, fennel-seed; pound well, pour on liquamen, wine, passum, a little oil. When it comes to the boil thicken with cornflour. Moisten the cooked stag inside and out, and serve. 2. In Platoneum- For Fallow Deer and for every kind of venison you can use the same sauce. 3. Aliter- Venison, Another Method Boil the stag, and roast lightly. Pound pepper, lovage, caraway, celery-seed; add honey, vinegar, liquamen, and oil. When hot thicken with cornflour and pour over the meat. 4. Ius in Cervo- Sauce for Venison. Pepper, lovage, Welsh onion, origan, pine-kernals, Jerico dates, honey, liquamen, mustard, vinegar, oil. 5. Cervinae Conditura- Sauce for Venison Pepper, cumin, herbs, parsley, onion, rue, honey, liquamen, mint, passum, caroenum, and a little oil. Thicken with cornflour when boiling. 6. Iura Ferventia in Cervo- Hot Sauce for Venison Pepper, lovage, parsley, cumin, toasted pine kernals or almonds. Add honey, vinegar, wine, a little oil, liquamen, and stir. 7. Embamma in Cervinum Assam- Sauce for Roast Venison Pepper, spikenard, bay-leaf, celery seed, dried onion, fresh rue, honey, vinegar, Liquamen: add Jerico dates, raisins, and oil. 8. Aliter in Cervum Assum Iura Ferventia- Hot Sauce for Roast Venison, Another Method Pepper, lovage, parsley, soaked damsons, wine, honey, vinegar, liquamen, a little oil. Stir with a bunch of leek and savory. Phlip Philippa Farrour Caer Frig Southeastern Ohio Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 14:01:45 +1000 From: Lorix Subject: Re: Subject: Re: SC - How do you know a dish was well liked or hated? Das Kochbuch der Sabina Welserin . From handwritten manuscript, Augsburg, 1553. ed.. by Hugo Stopp, trans. by Ulrike Giessmann. Heidelberg: Carl Winter Universitv§tsverlag, 1980. http://www.best.com/~ddfr/Medieval/Cookbooks/Sabrina_Welserin.html Wild game marinated in peppersauce (4) ìBoil fresh game in two parts water and one part wine, and when it is done, then cut it into pieces and lay it in a peppersauce. Let it simmer a while therein. Make [the sauce] so: Take rye bread, cut off the hard crust and cut the bread into pieces, as thick as a finger and as long as the loaf of bread is. Brown it over the fire, until it begins to blacken on both sides. Put it right away into cold water. Do not allow it to remain long therein. After that put it into a kettle, pour into it the broth in which the game was boiled, strain it through a cloth, finely chop onions and bacon, let it cook together, do not put too little in the peppersauce, season it well, let it simmer and put vinegar into it, then you have a good peppersauce.î To make a sauce in which to put a haunch of venison (7) ìLard it well and roast it and make a good sauce for it. Take Reinfal and stir cherry syrup into it, and fry Lebkuchen in fat and chop good sweet apples, almonds, cloves, cinnamon sticks, ginger, currants, pepper and raisins and let it all cook together. When you want to serve it, then pour the sauce over it. It is also for marinating a boar's head. Then cook it in two parts water and one third vinegar. The head of a pig is also made in this manner.î How to cook a wild boar's head, also how to prepare a sauce for it (5) ìA wild boar's head should be boiled well in water and, when it is done, laid on a grate and basted with wine, then it will be thought to have been cooked in wine. Afterwards make a black or yellow sauce with it. First, when you would make a black sauce, you should heat up a little fat and brown a small spoonful of wheat flour in the fat and after that put good wine into it and good cherry syrup, so that it becomes black, and sugar, ginger, pepper, cloves and cinnamon, grapes, raisins and finely chopped almonds. And taste it, however it seems good to you, make it so.î Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 18:21:06 -0400 From: Elaine Koogler Subject: Re: SC - Venison recipe request Actually there's a recipe in To the King's Taste...yeah I know, a lot of you don't like the book, but this is a good recipe...for Roo Broth: Take the lire of the deer other of the roo; parboile it on smale peces. Seeth it wel, half in water, and half in wyne. Take brede and bray it with the self broth, and drawe blode thereto and lat it seeth togedre with powdor-fort of gynger, other of cannel and macys, with a grete porcionn of vynegar, with raysons of courannte. Their redaction is: 3 Tbsp. bacon fat 1 medium onion, minced 2 # venison, cut into 1 1/2 inch cubes 1/4 cup flour\ 1 1/2 cups boiling water or beef stock 1 1/2 cups red wine 2 tsp. finely minced fresh ginger or 1 tsp. powdered ginger 1 tbsp. (or more) vinegar 1/2 cup currants salt 1/2 cup bread crumbs (optional) fresh deer blood if available 1. Melt bacon fat in a large saucepan 2. Saute onion in fat until transparent 3. Dredge venison cubes in flour 4. Brown cubes in skillet, combining them with onions 5. Combine water or stock, wine, ginger, vinegar, currants and salt to taste. Stir to blend. 6. Pour liquid over meat. 7. Cover and simmer about 2 1/2 hours or until meat is tender. 8. Add bread crumbs to thicken, if desired. 9. If blood is available, remove pot from flame a few minutes before adding it, as it should not boil. The blood will thicken and flavor the sauce as well as darken the color. You could either use their redaction or do your own...your choice! Kiri Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 12:23:37 EDT From: ChannonM at aol.com Subject: SC - Platina- Venison in Pepper Sauce- KINDA LONG I've been a busy little beaver and was hoping to share with you all my recent recipe development. I am working with Platina, the Milham version and have below the original and a potential redaction. I just began the marinade that will sit till tomorrow, in anticipation I present to you the following; Hauviette Venison with pepper sauce Pepper sauce- (P)Make pepper sauce with whatever wild meat you want this way; put in a large bowl as much dry dark wine as water and wash the meat very well in it, then strain the liquid and add as much salt as the situation demands. Put the same liquid in a copper kettle on a fire. When the meat is cooked, take it out and divide it in dishes. Toast bits of bread on a grill. When they are toasted, let soften in vinegar. When they have soaked up enough vinegar, break them up well with a pound of raisins. The blood of the animal itself may be suitably added to it, or itís ground up liver, if this can be done. Then mix this with itís own juice and add a little condesed grape or condensed must with the vinegar in which you had soaked the bread. Afterwards pass all this together through a sieve. Put in a pot and sprinkle with pepper, cloves, and cinnamon as you want; boil in evenly for half an hour over the coals, stirring rather often with a beater or spoon. Finally, serve the meat, fried in lard and divided into dishes with the seasoned pepper sauce to your guests. It nourishes much and usefully, it nurtures the stomach , and it fattens the body; however, it harms bilious people and makes stone, more or less according to the composition of the ingredients themselves. - -------- As for this recipe, I haven’t worked it out completely but here’s my first sketch of how it will go Venison roast, fat removed cut into chunks deep red wine* Marinate roast in 1.5 cups wine, 1.5 cups water overnight Partially cook the venison in the marinade by simmering 10 minutes. Remove and set aside meat. Then, combine marinade with the following ingredients that have been blended in a food processor: 1 tsp salt 2/3 cup bread crumbs soaked in 1/2 cup red wine vinegar. 1 pound yellow Thompson raisins 1/2 cup boiled down must (boiled down 2/3 from original volume) Strain the sauce and add pepper (1/2 tsp), cloves (1/4 tsp), and cinnamon (1/2tsp) Cook over med heat for 20-30 minutes. Fry venison in bacon fat Serve meat with sauce. Wine used; 1996 Masi Campoforiorin Ripasso 13% alcohol Verona grape varieties, particulary Corvina, using the techniques of ìappassimentoî (semi drying of the grapes) and refermentation (submerged cap method- holding down the skins so that more air can get to the wine and the yeast in the skins can better react with the wine). Rich, full bodied, round and velvety,and has an aging potential of 10 to 15 years. This wine is a step down from the wine I had hoped to use, namely an Amarone, which is even fuller and more velvety, but at $25 bottle it was out of my price range for cooking. I thought about it, but when I realized that I may need two bottles, (I am cooking for 30 people as a gift), I made up my mind to use the Campoforiorin Ripasso The origin of this wine can be traced back to Roman passum (possibly an etymological origin for Repasso?) through a description of the method used to creat the wine by Columella. He gives two elaborate recipes for the preparation of passum (found in Flower and Rosenbaum' Apicius) _Mago gives the following directions how to make the best passum, and I have made it myself like this. Gather early grapes when they are fully ripe, removing muldy or damaged berries. Fix in the ground gorks or stakes 4 feet apart to support reeds and join them together with poles. Then place the reeds on top and spread your grapes in the sun, covering them a night so they do not get wet from the dew. Then, when the have dried, pick the berries off the stalks and put them in a cask or wine-jar and poor the best possible must over them so that the berries are completely covered. When sturated put them on the sixth day in a wicker basket and presss them in the wine press and extract the passum. Next tread the grape-skins, having added freshest must which you have made from other grapes that were lseft to dry in the sun for three days. Mix together and put the whole mash through the wine-press , and this passum of the second pressing put immediately in vessels which you seal so that it does not become too rough. Then, after 20 or 30 days, when it has ceased fermenting, strain it into other vessels, seal their lids with gypsum immediately, and cover with skins. If you wish to make passum from the ‘bee’ grapes gather the whole grapes, clear away damged berries , and throw them out. Then hang them up on poles. See to it that the poles are always in the sun. As soon as the berries are sufficiently shrivelled pick them off and put them without stalks in a vessel and tread them well with your feet. When you have made none layer of them sprinkle old wine on and tread another layer of grapes over it and sprinkle this also with wine. Do the same with a third layer and after having added wine, leave for five days. Then tread with your feet and press the grapes in a wicker basket. Some people prepare old rain-water for this boiling it down to a third of its volume , and then when they have made raisinns in the manner described above, they take the boiled-down rain-water instead of wine, doing everything else in a manner where there is plenty of wood, and in use it is even sweeter than the passum described above." Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 12:19:12 -0400 From: "Gaylin J. Walli" Subject: Re: SC - Platina- Venison in Pepper Sauce- KINDA LONG Hauviette wrote in part for her venison redaction: >Partially cook the venison in the marinade by simmering 10 minutes. and also >Fry venison in bacon fat I would consider carefully watching these cooking times. Venison cooks VERY fast. Overcooking will detract from your dish. Not having personally *boiled* the venison ahead of time, I can say that frying it will cook it soundly from a bloody raw steak in less than 4 minutes. Much longer than that and you have a tough cut or bambi has been out in the swamps sucking on frogs. :) I have tried recipes similar to this in the past and I've found that the initial cooking in the marinade was enough to cook the meat completely. I needed less than half of the 10 minutes and the frying lasted for a matter of seconds. It could have been the size of the chunks of meat in my case, but it all cooked VERY fast. jasmine Iasmin de Cordoba Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 16:50:47 EDT From: ChannonM at aol.com Subject: SC - Review; Venison in Pepper Sauce I won't repost the recipe but will say these things; 1. Cooking time way too long (like Iasmine says), next time I will follow the recipe (remember the mantra- "put your trust in the recipe, it will not lead you astray") and not marinade. Will cook only for a few minutes. 2. The cut of meat may have been wrong for this process. I had venison labelled "chops", which may have just been wrong for this recipe. Someone has kindly offered me some venison roast, which I will be tryiing out next. 3. The cubes of meat were too small. I had cut them 1" by 1". I will cut them to 3X3 next time. Seems like all the flavour was leached out by the boiling. 4. Use proper juice for sappa. Since I had not obtained the Valpolicella must, I was (oh, cooking gods, please forgive me) forced to use (at gunpoint, I swear) Welch's Concord Grape. It was too sugary, not enough flavour to it 5. This recipe was too sweet. Since Platina denotes the amount of raisins to use, I have to decrease the amount of sappa. This will need to be re-evaluated once I have the proper type of sappa to compare to the Welch's swill, I currently have in my refridgerator. 6. Spices were kinda insipid. Up the quantities a bit- more cloves 7. For the final frying of venison, have lots of pork fat rendered so that the meat can absorb some. Do not fry on as high heat. The crunchy portions did not compliment the consistency of the sauce. Next trial, I'll repost the results. If at first you don't succeed........feed it to your dog Hauviette From: "Weems, Lora" To: "'sca-cooks at ansteorra.org'" Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 10:33:59 -0600 Subject: [Sca-cooks] RE: Sca-cooks digest, deer recipes Food content: Took my first deer this Monday. I'd love to see some good venison recipes. Grif Try this favorite of my family: take the backstap (loin) and remove the silverskin (the sinew along the outside of the long muscle). (If you know anyone who does black-powder re-enactments or buckskinning, they would love you if you gave it to them) Butterfly the backstap, and fold it out until you have a piece of meat that is about 3/4" to 1" thick. (You can use a meat hammer or bottom of a heavy pot or skillet) Marinade overnight or longer in the fridge: port wine ginger garlic, mashed sage any other spices you are fond of that aren't too salty a little liquid smoke (If you have a vacuum sealer, you can vacuum marinade it, that is faster) Take 1 part each brown and wild rice, and cook it half done. You can use stock if you have it, water works ok. You can add mushrooms and/or nuts, if you want (pecans or walnuts) (and, if you don't mind cheating, or are in a hurry, use Uncle Bens', they have some really tasty seasoned rice mixes) Remove the meat from the marinade, and reserve the liquid. Spread the rice over the meat, and tie as you would a rolled roast. Place in a roasting pan on a rack. Cover the roast with fatty bacon (Or, if you can get it from the butcher, a sheet of beef fat). Cook, covered with foil, at low temp (250 F or so) until the rice is done. This usually takes about an hour or an hour and a half. Then, uncover and put under the broiler to crisp the bacon. For the sauce, take the reserved marinade and add an equal amount of stock or water. Season to taste, and reduce to however thick you want it. Slice the roast, and serve with the sauce. This is a Christmas favorite, and works well with deer, elk, moose and caribou. Leofwynn Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 16:31:54 -0800 (PST) From: Tomasia Subject: [Sca-cooks] Venison Stock To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org According to "Food in England" by Dorothy Hartley To make a proper stock put the bones and trimmings of venison to boil with some shallot, and a small piece of nutmeg or mace. This is what I did this year with our venison when we processed it. I put it in a roaster covered with water and used nutmeg because I had no whole mace. I simmered it at 250 for about 24 hours. Then strained it. I froze some of the stock in ice cube trays and then measured out half cup to cup portions and froze it. The ice cubes are used when making pastry for say shepherds or meat pies for a really good added flavor to pastry. I use the larger portions when making things like stroganoff or venison tips instead of using beef base. Really adds good flavor to venison dishes since venison can be dry. Tomasia da Collivento Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 15:46:36 -0400 From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Game sources (bunny, venison) question To: Cooks within the SCA On Oct 12, 2007, at 3:37 PM, Michael Gunter wrote: > I'd love to budget even small venison chops over frummenty with > powdre forte. But that's a dream right now. If it ever becomes an issue, Denver legs (basically top and bottom rounds, completely trimmed of all fat and connective tissue) are da bomb. Slice and pound as cutlets, you can serve a small amount cooked medium rare, and when there's almost no waste, not even to shrinkage in cooking, that price tends to look a _lot_ more attractive... Adamantius Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 15:43:14 -0500 From: Michael Gunter Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] A question about venison To: Cooks within the SCA <<< I've been given some venison steaks, and am seeking suggestions of how to season and cook them. Does anyone have a favorite way of preparing them? Talana >>> I love venison as minute steaks. A quick pounding with a meat mallet and dredged in seasoned flour then pan fried. Make sure to use the dripping for gravy! Here is what I served at the Central Regional 12th Night to rave reviews. I even made a version of this recipe with firm tofu for the non-Bambi eaters. Basic Marinade Ingredients 1 bottle of Burgundy or red wine 1 large peeled and finely chopped white onion 4 dessertspoons of dark brown Muscovado sugar 2 tablespoons of 'extra virgin' olive oil 2 tablespoons of red wine vinegar 2 large finely chopped carrots1 sprig of fresh Rosemary 1 sprig of fresh Thyme 1 sprig of Parsley 6 large bay leaves 6-10 whole peppercorns 3 large whole cloves of garlic (crushed) Method Sweat the vegetables in the oil then pour in the Burgundy. Add the rest of the ingredients and bring slowly to the boil. Simmer for twenty minutes and then leave to cool. When absolutely cold, place the venison in a pot and baste thoroughly with the marinade. Cover with tinfoil place in the bottom of a fridge and leave to marinate for as long as possible (2 days is good). Remember turn the meat before you go to bed and turn it again when you get up in the morning. When you are ready to cook remove the venison from the marinade and let it drip dry, saving the marinade to make gravy. Don't forget to strain it to remove surplus solids. Roast the venison until it matches your requirements. We tend to like it cooked medium rare. Make your gravy in the roasting pan using the meat juices and strained marinade to provide additional taste. Gunthar Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 21:46:17 -0400 From: rattkitten Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] A question about venison To: Cooks within the SCA Ok now you are going to get a ton of suggestions... but I simply treated mine like steaks and marinated them in Balsamic Vinegar overnight. Then cooked them to Medium Rare (I was being cautious since it was wild game meat...) ((Usually I eat it straight off of said animal...)) You will also hear about soaking the steaks in Buttermilk to remove the "gamy taste" but I mean hey it is what eating the damn meat in the first place is about right? Getting the flavor of the meat!!!! I have also marinated them in Bourbon. Both times the meat was delicious. Nichola Jennifer Carlson wrote: <<< I've been given some venison steaks, and am seeking suggestions of how to season and cook them. Does anyone have a favorite way of preparing them? Talana >>> Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 13:15:09 -0400 From: euriol Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Venison Recipes Wanted To: Cooks within the SCA Here is one I have cooked for a couple of feasts with good results: Original Recipe taken from Libro de Arte Coquinaria, by Maestro Martino, written about the middle of the fifteenth century. Per Fare Civero de Salvaticina - Civet of Venison Per fare civero de salvaticina in prima coci la carne in aqua miscolaa con altrectanto aceto, et come ? cotta cavala fori del brodo, azio che se sciucchi. Asciutta che serr? frigila in bono lardo; et volendo fare duo piatelli del dicto civero, togli una libra de uva passa, et mezza libra de amandole senza mondarle, et pista bene queste chose. Dapoi togli una libra de pane tagliato in fette, et siccato al foco, ma non troppo bruscolato, et ponilo a mollo in uno poco de vino roscio, et pisalo con le predicte chose, poi distemperale col brodo de la dicta carne, et passale per la stamigna in una pignatta, et ponila su la brascia longi dal foco, facendola ben bollire per spazio de meza hora; dapoi vi metti zenzevro, et cannela assai, che sia dolce o forte secundo el commune gusto, o del tuo Signore. Dapoi tolli una cipolla, et cocila in una pignatta et macinala molto bene, et ponila insieme col lardo, nel quel ? cocta; et metti ogni cohsa in la ignatta ne la qual sono le chose predicte, lassandola bollire anchora un poco pi?; poi fa li piaelli de la prefata crne, et de sopra gli metti de questo civero, et mandali a tabula. English Translation: The Art of Cooking (pg 51-52) To make a game-meat civet, first cook the meat in water mixed with an equal amount of vinegar, and when it is cooked take it out of the broth so it can dry. When it is dry, fry it in good pork fat; and if you want to make two plates of his civet, take a libra of raisins and half a libra of almonds without skinning them and crush these things well. Then take a libra of bread cut into slices and dried at the fire, but not too burnt, put it to soak in a little red wine, and mash it with those things, then thin it with broth from the meat, and put it through a sieve into a pot, and put it over the embers, far from the fire, and let it boil well for a half hour; then add plenty of ginger and cinnamon so that it be mild or strong according to the collective taste, or to the taste of your master. Then take an onion and cook it in a pot and mash it well; mix it with the pork fat in which it was cooked and add it all to the pot containing the aforementioned things, letting it boil a little longer; then serve out that meat, and over it put some of this civet, and send it to table. My Interpretation: Ingredients 2 pound Venison 1 cup Water 1 cup Vinegar 3 tablespoon Olive oil 1/2 cup Raisins 1/2 cup Almonds 3 tablespoon Bread crumbs 3/4 cup Wine red 1/2 teaspoon Ginger ground 1/2 teaspoon Cinnamon ground Instructions Simmer meat in water and vinegar for 1? - 2 hours. Remove meat from broth and let dry. Braise meat in Olive Oil. Grind raisins and almonds together and put in pot with meat, bread crumbs, wine and spices. Cook onion in pan in which meat was braised until translucent and add to pot. Let cook a few more minutes and then serve. Euriol Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 19:50:36 +0200 From: " Ana Vald?s " Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Venison Recipes Wanted To: euriol at ptd.net, "Cooks within the SCA" I cook often venison since we have a lot of game in Sweden. A couple of friends are good hunters and provide me with good venison, deer, elk, reindeer. We usually cook it with honey, dark ale (porter) and mustard and it tastes just wonderful. You can also make a marinade with mustard and honey as well. We serve it with chantarelles and lingonberries. Ana Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 13:24:39 -0500 From: Michael Gunter Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Venison Recipes Wanted To: Cooks within the SCA This isn't exactly period but I did use this recipe for my 12th Night Feast and got rave reviews: Venison (modern marinade) Basic Marinade Ingredients 1 bottle of Burgundy or red wine 1 large peeled and finely chopped white onion 4 desert spoons of dark brown Muscovado sugar 2 tablespoons of 'extra virgin' olive oil 2 tablespoons of red wine vinegar 2 large finely chopped carrots 1 sprig of fresh Rosemary 1 sprig of fresh Thyme1 sprig of Parsley 6 large bay leaves 6-10 whole peppercorns 3 large whole cloves of garlic (crushed) Method - Sweat the vegetables in the oil then pour in the Burgundy. Add the rest of the ingredients and bring slowly to the boil. - Simmer for twenty minutes and then leave to cool. - When absolutely cold, place the venison in a pot and baste thoroughly with the marinade. Cover with tinfoil place in the bottom of a fridge and leave to marinate for as long as possible (2 days is good). Remember turn the meat before you go to bed and turn it again when you get up in the morning. - When you are ready to cook remove the venison from the marinade and let it drip dry, saving the marinade to make gravy. Don?t forget to strain it to remove surplus solids. - Roast the venison until it matches your requirements. We tend to like it cooked medium rare. - Make your gravy in the roasting pan using the meat juices and strained marinade to provide additional taste. One thing to remember is don't overcook the venison. It is so lean it gets dry easily. Gunthar Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 13:37:07 -0500 From: Michael Gunter Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Venison Recipes Wanted To: Cooks within the SCA <<< I just might have to try this with beef! I never get my hands on venison - my cousins all prefer theirs ground, or as summer sausage. And, it's not quite deer season in MI yet (unless bow season has started...) Ilsebet >>> It should do fine with beef. I also provided this with a firm, broiled tofu for non-bambi eaters and it was very good. Gunthar Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 19:17:27 -0400 From: Johnna Holloway Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Venison Recipes Wanted To: Cooks within the SCA Barbara Benson wrote: <<< I have had a request from a cook that I mentor for suggestions for tasty, period, venison recipes. I have absolutely no experience cooking Bambi so I told her I would pass her request on to this august list. Serena da Riva >>> Recipes for period dishes involving venison can be located through www.medievalcookery.com of course. If she needs some suggestions on how to handle venison in general maybe she should check out Nichola Fletcher's Ultimate Venison Cookery by Nichola Fletcher. She's the author of Charlemagne's Tablecloth. http://www.nicholafletcher.com/food_writer.html I always suggest that people check out Cabela's for game cookery books. http://www.cabelas.com/home.jsp;jsessionid=20ZCY41AV3NT1LAQBBJSCNNMCAEFIIWE?_requestid=111822 If I had wanted one, I could have struck one or two bambi's crossing the street in town on Tuesday at 9 am. There were eight of them in the mini herd. (stupid rats on hooves) Johnnae Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 10:40:08 -0400 From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Gervase Markham and "faux venison" To: Cooks within the SCA On May 27, 2009, at 9:55 AM, Vandy J. Simpson wrote: <<< I'm working on a menu for a late-period feast. One of the books I'd been reading, Tudor Food and Cookery, mentions that "Gervase Markham suggested that by marinating beef or ram-mutton in vinegar, beer and turnsole (a bluish colourant) you could produce counterfeit venison for a pie!" >>> "111. Of baking red deer, or fallow, or anything to be kept cold. "When you bake red deer, you shall first parboil it and take out the bones, then you shall if it be lean lard it, if fat save the charge, then put it into a press to squeeze out the blood; then for a night lay it in a mere sauce made of vinegar, small drink, and salt, and then taking it forth season it well with pepper finely beaten, and salt, well mixed together, and see that you good store thereof, both upon and in every open and hollow place of the venison; but by no means cut any slashes to put in the pepper, for it will of itself sink fast enough into the flesh, and be more pleasant in the eating: then having raised the coffin, lay in the bottom a thick course of butter, then lay the flash thereon and cover it all over with butter, and so bake it as much as if you did bake great brown bread; then when you have draw it, melt more butter, with three or four spoonful of vinegar, and twice so much claret wine, and at a vent hole on the top of the lid pour in the same till it can receive no more, and so let it stand and cool; and in this sort you may bake fallow deer, or swan, or whatever else you may please to keep cold, the mere sauce only being left out which is only proper to red deer. "112. To bake beef, or mutton for venison. "And if to your mere sauce you add a little turnsole, and therein steep beef, or ram mutton; you may also in this manner take the first for red deer venison, and the latter for fallow, and a very good judgement shall not be able to say otherwise than that it is of itself perfect venison, both in taste colour, and the manner of cutting." --Gervase Markham, "The English Housewife", ed. Michael R. Best, 1986 McGill University Press It appears to me that what's happening here is that venison is being marinated [hence "mere sauce"] overnight before being baked in a crust in an otherwise pretty straightforward manner. Markham is presumably advocating adding a little bluish coloring to the marinade to enhance the purple-red shade of the meat and create the illusion of venison. I have no idea what that would do to the flavor, but with plenty of pepper, wine, salt, vinegar, and a ton of butter, one never knows. Texturally, my own experience is that one long-baked red meat in a pie and served cold, is very much like another, with a dense and almost waxy mouth feel. Season any two alike, and there'll be some similarities. Season any two and color one to resemble the other, and, well, it'll resemble it to some extent. Adamantius Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 07:59:55 -0700 From: edoard at medievalcookery.com Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Gervase Markham and "faux venison" To: "Cooks within the SCA" -------- Original Message -------- From: "Vandy J. Simpson" <<< I'm working on a menu for a late-period feast. One of the books I'd been reading, Tudor Food and Cookery, mentions that "Gervase Markham suggested that by marinating beef or ram-mutton in vinegar, beer and turnsole (a bluish colourant) you could produce counterfeit venison for a pie!" I'm thinking this may have been something they culled from one of their commentary sources, since I don't see Markham listed in the bibliography. (It's an old faded photocopy...) I *feel* like I've seen something like this somewhere else, but maybe I'm just convincing myself I have. I've poked through what I can find of Gervase Markham on line, Kirrily Robert's website, but I'm not seeing a recipe that seems to relate to this. Does anyone out there have any further suggestions? Sources? Memories? I've reached the point where I've read and re-read so many things, my eyes are crossed! >>> This appears to be a popular trick. In addition the recipe from Markham's that Adamantius posted, there are three in Menagier: And if you wish to make a piece of beef taste like venison of deer or bear, if you are in bear country, take numble or leg of beef, then parboil and lard it, spit and roast; and let it be eaten with (a sauce of) wild boar's tail. Let the beef be parboiled, then lard it along its length and cut into portions, and then put the hot boar's tail (sauce) in a dish over your beef which first is roasted or boiled in boiling water and taken out soon, for this is more tender than deer. [Le Menagier de Paris] BEEF Like BEAR VENISON. A leg of beef. Do it in a black sauce of ginger, clove, long and grain pepper, etc. And put in each bowl, two pieces, and it will taste like bear. [Le Menagier de Paris] To Counterfeit Bear Venison from a Piece of Beef. Take flank, and let it be chopped in large chunks as for loin stew, then parboil, lard and roast: and then boil a boar's tail, and let your meat boil a little, and throw sauce and all in a dish. [Le Menagier de Paris] - Doc Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 07:25:33 -0400 From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Venison, baked or roasted To: Cooks within the SCA On Aug 20, 2009, at 1:38 AM, Alex Clark wrote: <<< I have a few questions about the recipe "To bake venison" in the new TI. Unfortunately, for such a short recipe a few questions put almost everything into question. >>> I didn't see the article. Does this assume a period recipe in which venison is baked in a pan in the oven? If so, that would seem pretty unlikely. <<< Firstly, in its original context the recipe is between recipes for pie and roast venison. >>> Given that there aren't a while lot of detailed instructions for roasting meats, this could still be interesting. <<< The recipes in general are not well sorted, so I would certainly not suppose just from this that the baked venison has something to do with pie, but it is clear that a distinction is being made between baking and roasting. It is my understanding that the usual way to bake would have been in a crust, and not in what modern people call a roasting pan. Perhaps that is why the pan is still said to be for roasting, even though it is used in an oven? >>> Yes. And probably why we roast beef but bake ham. We're simply omitting the pastry in the latter. <<< In addition, there are references to venison pasties at least since the 15th century. Might this baked venison have been otherwise known as a pasty? >>> Yes. Very generally, a pasty is used as part of another cooking process (see some of Taillevent's fish dishes), or is otherwise consumed fairly quickly; pies could be used for longer storage, the air spaces filled originally with a custardy wine sauce (which would be acid and exclude air), later with butter, and still later with wine or stock-based jelly. <<< Finally, the original recipe says "if the Venison be lene lard it through with bakon." The modern interpretation calls for the bacon to be laid on top, but doesn't "lard it through" mean to thread lardons through the meat? >>> Yes. Fat laid on top is generally known as barding, and AFAIK, doesn't turn up much or perhaps at all in the English medieval/renaissance corpus. Larding, on the other hand, is stuck into the meat. At least one of the early texts goes to the trouble of distinguishing between larding with fat and studding with cloves or slivers of ginger. Speaking very generally, with few exceptions, when a period recipe in English speaks of baking, it's some kind of pie, or else something that has evolved from a pie, like the pasties in a pot that appear in some of the French sources, or the modern baked ham. Adamantius Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 08:55:36 -0400 From: Johnna Holloway Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Venison, baked or roasted To: Cooks within the SCA Alex Clark wrote: <<< I have a few questions about the recipe "To bake venison" in the new TI. Unfortunately, for such a short recipe a few questions put almost everything into question. Firstly, in its original context the recipe is between recipes for pie and roast venison. The recipes in general are not well sorted, so I would certainly not suppose just from this that the baked venison has something to do with pie, but it is clear that a distinction is being made between baking and roasting. It is my understanding that the usual way to bake would have been in a crust, and not in what modern people call a roasting pan. Perhaps that is why the pan is still said to be for roasting, even though it is used in an oven? >>> For people who don't have TI or have a copy at hand of A Proper newe Booke of Cokerye, the recipes for those two in the 1575 edition are as follows: To bake Venison. Take nothinge but Pepper and salte, but lette it have ynoughe, and if the Venyson be leane, Larde it through with baken. To roste Venison. Rosted Venison must have Veniger suger, and Cinnamom, and butter boyled upon a chafingdish with coles, but the sauce may not be to tarte, and then lay the Venison upon the sauce. (from medievalcookery.com) Or in the Frere edition, as per Thomas Gloning they are To make Pyes Pyes of mutton or beif must be fyne mynced and ceasoned wyth pepper and salte, and a lyttle saffron to coloure it, suet or marrow a good quantite, a lyttle vyneger, prumes, greate raysins and dates, take the fattest of the broathe of powdred beyfe, and yf you wyll have paest royall, take butter and yolkes of egges and so tempre the flowre to make the paeste. ?. To bake Veneson. Take nothynge but pepper and salte, but lette it haue ynoughe, and yf the Veneson be leane, larde it throughe wyth bacon. ?. To Rooste Veneson. Roosted Veneson must have vyneger, Suger and Cinomome and butter boyled upon a chafing dyshe with cooles, but the sauce maye not bee to tarte, and then laye the Veneson upon the sauce. ---- My impression is that "To bake Veneson" is related to the preceding recipe "To make Pyes". Mutton and beef are covered in that recipe. Oh, we should also mention venison, so we'll just put in a note about using venison. The next recipe "To Rooste Veneson" mentions the usual way that we would handle venison. There we have taken care of venison. By the way, "Baken Veneson" appears as a dish in the second course of a Flesh Day dinner and again at a supper.. --- Now let me play librarian and bibliographer. I have done quite a bit of work with these early English printed cookbooks and this one is of course quite interesting. We have 4 editions of A Proper New Booke of Cokerye-- the 1545, the undated circa 1557 one, the 1575, and the 1576. There is ONE surviving copy of each. We can estimate that there at least 2000 printed copies of these 4 editions and perhaps as many as 4000 were printed. Out of all those copies, 4 survive. What we don't have for this book is any sort of an original manuscript or copybook or even a reason why suddenly in 1545 the book appears and then reappears. ---- <<< In addition, there are references to venison pasties at least since the 15th century. Might this baked venison have been otherwise known as a pasty? >>> There are of course other earlier baked venison recipes in English manuscripts. From Harl 279 .xix. Venyson y-bake.?Take hog?es of Venyson?, & parboyle hem in fayre Water an Salt; & whan ?e Fleyssche is fayre y-boylid, make fayre past, & cast ?in Venyson ?er-on; & caste a-boue an be-ne?e, pouder Pepir, Gyngere, & Salt, & ?an sette it on? ?e ouyn, & lat bake, & serue forth. from Har 4016 Venyson? ybake. ? Take hanches of Venyson?, parboile it in faire water and salt; ?en? take faire paast, and ley there-on? ?e Venyson? y-cutte in pieces as ?ou wolt have it, and cast vnder hit, and aboue hit, powder of ginger, or peper and salt medylde togidre, And sette hem in An? oven?, and lete hem bake til ?ey be ynog?. Two fifteenth-century cookery-books : Harleian MS. 279 (ab 1430), & Harl. MS. 4016 (ab. 1450), with extracts from Ashmole MS. 1439, Laud MS. 553, & Douce MS. 55 Thomas Austin. http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=cme;cc=cme;rgn=main;view=text;idno=CookBk Not everything has to be a pasty. <<< Finally, the original recipe says "if the Venison be lene lard it through with bakon." The modern interpretation calls for the bacon to be laid on top, but doesn't "lard it through" mean to thread lardons through the meat? >>> Yes, of course it should be larded through using a larding needle, but my guess is that Master Hogge opted for simple. (Of course the recipe also fails to note at what temperature or for how long or to what internal temperature the venison should be roasted for serving today. I would mention that these recipes were submitted off his website. ) Johnnae llyn Lewis Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 20:30:04 -0400 From: Johnna Holloway To: Cooks within the SCA Subject: [Sca-cooks] Venison article Readers might like to know that the regional newsletter for Pentamere has been posted online as a .pdf http://www.midrealm.org/pentamere/ It contains an article on deer and venison with a number of recipes. Hope you enjoy it Johnnae Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 16:34:57 -0700 From: lilinah at earthlink.net To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org Subject: [Sca-cooks] Venison, not necessarily deer meat? While tracking down those suggestions by Thorvald for potential Cameline-type recipes in Lancelot de Casteau, i came upon this recipe (note i am reading the French and translating myself) Original Pour heuspot de venaison, soit de sanglier ou de cerf, prennez pain brusl?, & faictes poiure passer l'estamine, & mettez dedans noix muscade, poiure, claussons & pouldre, succre, canelle, vin rouge, deux ou trois oignons haschez menus, fricassez en beurre, & faictes les bien bouillir ensemble tant qu'il soit luysant. My Poor Translation "For hochepot of venison, either of boar or of red deer, take toasted bread, & pass pepper through a sieve [although i wonder if one isn't supposed to sieve the toasted bread into crumbs], & put in nutmeg, pepper, "claussons" [i am not finding this... clausson is a small pastry, unlikely; or clous = cloves] & powder [probably poudre fine], sugar, cinnamon, red wine, 2 or 3 onions finely chopped, fry in butter, & boil them well together so that it is glistening." It seemed odd to me that venison was either boar or red deer, since i think of venison as meat of a not specified species of deer. So i checked a French dictionary, which said that "venaison" was (my translation) "flesh of large "gibier", such as red deer, fallow deer, roe deer, boar." Looking up "gibier" it said (my translation) "edible wild animals that one takes in the hunt", and "the meat coming from such animals". This made me curious... Granted Casteau wrote his cookbook around 1585, although it was not published until 1604, so it is rather late. But i began to wonder: does "venison" or spelling variations of it in SCA-period English cookbooks merely mean some sort of more or less generic "deer" meat, as i think most Americans assume, or does it really signify what the French does - meat from any of several large game animals? -- Urtatim [that's err-tah-TEEM] the persona formerly known as Anahita Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 19:44:49 -0400 From: Saint Phlip To: Cooks within the SCA Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Venison, not necessarily deer meat? Actually, venison as large animal meat is known to most serious hunters, because it crops up in various hunting manuals, but generally, since most large animals available to hunt are deer and related species, it tends to be thought of as specific to deer meat, similar to the way "corn" tends to refer specifically to maize here in the US. On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 7:34 PM, wrote: <<< Granted Casteau wrote his cookbook around 1585, although it was not published until 1604, so it is rather late. But i began to wonder: does "venison" or spelling variations of it in SCA-period English cookbooks merely mean some sort of more or less generic "deer" meat, as i think most Americans assume, or does it really signify what the French does - meat from any of several large game animals? -- Urtatim [that's err-tah-TEEM] >>> -- Saint Phlip Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 18:48:30 -0500 From: "Terry Decker" To: "Cooks within the SCA" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Venison, not necessarily deer meat? Middle English "veneson" derives from the Latin "venetio" (hunting) via Old French. In its archaic form, it refers to the meat of any game animal being used as food. The limitation to deer meat is a more modern definition. Bear Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 18:01:22 -0600 From: James Prescott To: Cooks within the SCA Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Venison, not necessarily deer meat? One source suggests: "stag (of the European red deer), doe (of the European red deer), fallow deer, roe deer or hare". Also, boar is included. So yes, the meaning of venison to the French is, I think, fairly inclusive. Thorvald Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 20:48:05 -0400 From: Johnna Holloway To: Cooks within the SCA Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Venison, not necessarily deer meat? I did an article on Venison in 2009 for the regional newsletter. My opening paragraph was: "In this region of Pentamere where white tailed deer abound, it may come as a shock to learn that in the medieval period, venison wasn?t always the flesh of a deer. In fact venison might have been the flesh of any game animal killed by hunting or through the chase. Venison might extend to the flesh of a boar, a bear, a hare or rabbit, as well as the flesh of a deer. As late as 1672, Josselyn?s New England?s Rarities would record ?Bears are very fat in the fall of the leaf, at which time they are excellent venison.? In Scotland venison could even refer to the flesh of a goat, although that meaning is listed as archaic and rare." from Venison. Contributed by Johnnae llyn Lewis, CE which appeared in the Gauntlet, October-December, 2009. Johnnae Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 22:03:23 -0700 From: lilinah at earthlink.net To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org Subject: [Sca-cooks] What is "claussons"? I had some questions on this recipe from Lancelot de Casteau: Original Pour heuspot de venaison, soit de sanglier ou de cerf, prennez pain brusl?, & faictes poiure passer l'estamine, & mettez dedans noix muscade, poiure, claussons & pouldre, succre, canelle, vin rouge, deux ou trois oignons haschez menus, fricassez en beurre, & faictes les bien bouillir ensemble tant qu'il soit luysant. My Poor Translation For hochepot of venison, either of boar or of red deer, take toasted bread, & pass pepper through a sieve [although i wonder if one isn't supposed to sieve the toasted bread into crumbs], & put in nutmeg, pepper, "claussons" [i am not finding this... clausson is a small pastry, unlikely; or clous = cloves] & powder [probably poudre fine], sugar, cinnamon, red wine, 2 or 3 onions finely chopped, fry in butter, & boil them well together until it is glistening. I looked in a 1611 French-English Dictionary for "claussons" and couldn't find it. So my question is, what is it? -- Urtatim [that's err-tah-TEEM] the persona formerly known as Anahita Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 00:39:51 -0600 From: James Prescott To: Cooks within the SCA Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] What is "claussons"? Indeed, cloves. Thorvald ----------------- At 10:16 PM -0700 5/20/11, wheezul at canby.com wrote: Looks like clove: http://books.google.fr/books?id=QVMpAQAAIAAJ&q=clousson&dq=clousson&hl=fr Katherine in An Tir <<< I had some questions on this recipe from Lancelot de Casteau: I looked in a 1611 French-English Dictionary for "claussons" and couldn't find it. So my question is, what is it? >>> -- Urtatim [that's err-tah-TEEM] the persona formerly known as Anahita Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2012 15:02:24 -0500 From: Sharon Palmer To: Cooks within the SCA Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Venison . . . <<< I have acquired 5 lbs of venison "pieces". Any ideas for seasoning and/or sides? >>> From Rumpolt Hirsch 22. Take the venison roast from the back/ and cut it not completely too thin/ as thick as a knife back/ salt and pepper it on both sides/ lay it on a grill/ and roast it swiftly away/ baste with finely chopped bacon/ and when you dress it/ then pour a nice brown broth over it/ and pepper it well/ since the venison must be well peppered/ Or take a semmel (soft white roll)/ and hollow it out/ hold against the fire/ that it dries out/ baste with a beef fat/ and when it is dry from the fire/ then lay the carbonada (the grilled meat) in the hollowed out weck bread/ cover it with the cover/ that you have cut from the bread/ dress it in a dish/ and cover with another/ that it comes warm to a table/ then it is a good thick soup/ is meat and bread together/ you might eat from one as well as from the other. Hirsch 23. Take the back roast from the meat/ slice it thin and long/ beat it with the back of a knife/ and chop beef fat small/ with green well tasting herbs/ sprinkle pepper/ salt/ and a little caraway over it/ wrap the meat over each other/ together with the fat/ stick it on a bird spit. However if there is fat left over/ then lay the spit with the fat on a board/ and spread the fat over the hattele (meat rolls)/ that it stays hanging on it/ lay it to the fire/ and roast it/ then it is made nicely clever?? / while it is also fat inside. Because it has one not always the time/ that he bastes it/ and one must roast such a roast only in the juice/ When it is roasted/ then give it dry on a table/ or with a brown broth/ while it is warm/ like this the pepper emphasizes?? the salt. Hirsch 27. Roast made with lemon/ or braised with juniper/ lemon and onions chopped together/ and let simmer with it/ mixed with spices/ pepper/ and a little saffron/ that is nicely sour. Ranvaig Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2012 12:47:08 -0500 From: Alexander Clark To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Venison . . . On Thu, 8 Mar 2012 19:16:24 -0500, I wrote: <<< If you cut tenderloin steaks, then you could grill Stekys of venyson from Harleian MS 279 and Austin: . . . >>> P. S. I understand that the quality of venison steak is likely to decline rapidly if it gets past medium, and especially if it goes all the way to "well" done. Cook them fast, watch them like a hawk, and take them off just as soon as they're ready, and they should be good. Medium rare might be a better plan than medium, since venison is not notorious for things that live in the meat. (Its main problem is things that live on the skin.) -- Henry/Alex Edited by Mark S. Harris venison-msg Page 36 of 36