seafood-msg - 4/7/07 Medieval non-fish seafood. Recipes. Oysters. Calamari, Squid, Cuttlefish, Crawfish, Lobsters. NOTE: See also the files: fish-msg, eels-msg, meat-smoked-msg, pickled-foods-msg, drying-foods-msg, Shrympes-art, snails-msg, stockfish-msg, shrimp-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 21:36:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Uduido at aol.com Subject: SC - Spondylis-finished-LONG I am not posting Vehling's translation of 'Isicia ex Spondylis' since I have already done so but here is the 'perfected' redaction. I hope you enjoy. Any comments either to the list or privately would be most welcome. A DISH OF SCALLOPS "Isicia Ex Spondylis' A redaction by L. J. Spencer, Jr., copyright 09-14-97. Notes: In the following recipe I finally decided on a coarser wheat product than the original experimental recipe used after reading several posts from Adamantius and others on the SCA-Cooks list. If you do not use Caul or another similar type of wrapping be sure to allow the batter to fry until it is firm on one side as it is extremely tender and difficult to turn it if you try to do so to soon. The color should be 'well-browned'. Of course, if you use the caul as intended in the original you will not have this problem. The finished product looks very similar to small oblong pouches nice and brown with a crispy outside covering. The interior is moist and sweet very much like the sweetness of oysters. If you do not use the caul the product looks amazingly like fried oysters and could, with little imagination be used as an illusion food to represent that product. I did not particularly care for the base fish sauce but others may find it quite tasty. I garnished it with fronds of reconstituted dry seeweed. 1 lb. scallops, lightly sauted in olive oil COOKED WHEAT - --------------------------- 1 cp. Wheatena 2 1/2 cps water 3/4 tsp. salt 3 lg. eggs 3/8 tsp. freshly ground black pepper Caul Rish fish stock Olive oil for frying Minced cooked scallops very fine. In a non-stick saucepan, combine Wheatena, water, andd salt. Bring to a boil. Reduce heat to medium low and cook until very thick, stirring to prevent burning. (About 5-6 mins.) When it starts sticking to bottom immediately remove from heat. Cool. Combine wheat mixture, scallops, eggs and pepper thorouhly. Wrap a heaping tblspful in a piece of caul. Repeat until all of the mixture is used. (Note: If you are not using caul elliminate this step). Heat olive oil in a frying pan. Lay croquettes in fat seam side ddown. Brown and turn. Repeat until all are cooked. (IMPORTANT: If you are NOT using a wrapping then drop by lg. tbspnfuls into hot oil). Drain on absorbent paper or cloth. To serve: place a couple of tblsps. of fish stock on plate and put 3 croquettes in center. These are also good without sauce and are very flavorful at room temperature. Servings: 12 (36 croquettes>3 per serving) Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 11:43:55 -0400 From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: Re: SC - Help-Oysters LrdRas at aol.com wrote: > Hi, list! :-) I seldom ask for advise but.....WHAT A DEAL! :-) Giant Markets > are selling Select oysters and Standard for $3.99 a pint. A $5.00 discount! > :-0 I LOVE oysters! Bought 2 pints to start. <chagrin> > Any one have PERIOD recipes for oysters? Need original recipes. If they are > in a Romance language I do not need a translation. :-). Any help would be > much appreciated. The sooner the better. At 1 or 2 pints a day for the > remainder of the sale, I figure that I have 3 days to play with oyster > recipes. :-) From Diversa Cibaria, Book I of the ever-faithful "Curye On Inglysch": "62 To maken hoistreye. Nim hostrees & mak am zeo*en, & so**en do am out of *e bro*; & wyte *e bro*. & so**en heuw am smale on an bord, & braye heom in an morter, & so**en do am in *e bro* & do *erto milke of alemauns, & lie hit wi* amydon. & let frien oygnons & mynsen heom by am seoluen in oyle; & 3ef *ou nast none oyle, let seo*en heom in god milke of alemaundes. & do *erto a poudre of gode spices, and colore hit wy* saffroun." There's a similar recipe in Taillevent, I believe, except without the almond milk, and with toast crumbs, pea puree or water, and vinegar added to the formula. Actually sounds better, to me, at least. Also, you can check Apicius, which has a couple of oyster recipes, and several oyster sauce recipes. Probably you'd be best off using the recipes that call for the oysters to be cooked. Most of what the Romans ate would likely have been frshly shucked, on the half shell, but the guidelines for eating those only when alive get a little fuzzy where shucked, packaged oysters are concerned. Had some lovely fried oysters in real sweet-and-sour sauce in the Chinatown Saturday. Real sweet-and-sour sauce being heavy on the mixed ginger pickle, and easy on the weird flourescent orange baby-aspirin flavoring that often is associated with this sauce. Adamantius Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 00:06:08 +0000 From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net> Subject: Re: SC - Help-Oysters And it came to pass on 2 Dec 97, that LrdRas at aol.com wrote: > Any one have PERIOD recipes for oysters? Need original recipes. If > they are in a Romance language I do not need a translation. :-). Here is a recipe from the "Libro de Guisados" (1529). It appears to be a list of cooking suggestions, rather than one single recipe: COMO SE GUISAN LAS OSTIAS Las ostias se comen fritas con aceite y su pimienta y azafran y sus especias y zumo de naranja; y echadas en su escabeche con sus hojas de laurel. Y se comen asadas con su pimienta. Y se comen cocidas en su agua; y aceite, y especias sofreidos primero con su cebolla and aceite en una sarten o la cebolla sola sofreida en la sarten; y echada en la olla con su sabor de vinagre; y algunas buenas yerbas. Y se pueden guisar en cazuela con su agua y aceite y especias y buenas yerbas con cebolla sofreida en su sarten; y echada dentro, y su saborcico de vinagre. And a quick translation for those who are not familiar with Spanish: HOW OYSTERS ARE COOKED Oysters are eated fried with oil and your pepper and saffron and your spices and orange juice; and cast into your escabeche [a pickled dish] with your laurel leaves. And they are eaten fried with your pepper. And they are eaten cooked in your water; and oil, and spices gently fried first with your onion and oil in a frying-pan or the onion gently fried alone in the frying pan; and cast in the pot with your taste of vinegar; and some good herbs. And they can be cooked in a cazuela [casserole dish] with your water and oil and spices and good herbs with onion gently fried in your frying-pan; and cast within, and your little taste of vinegar. Hope this helps. Lady Brighid ni Chiarain of Tethba Barony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom mka Robin Carroll-Mann *** harper at idt.net Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 16:08:37 -0600 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: RE: SC - Odd question > It recently (last night) came up in conversation whether some form of > calamari is period. Anyone have any thoughts on the matter? > > Bogdan Giacosa in A Taste of Ancient Rome interprets Esicia de lolligine (Apicius 43) as squid patties. Vehling in his translation of Apicius refers to the dish as Apicius 42 and uses cuttlefish. So it's highly probable that squid was prepared in Antiquity and would have been served in period, at least along the Italian coast. Looking at a couple of modern Italian cook books, the terms cuttlefish and squid are used interchangeably, although I seem to remember them as two different critters. Bear Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 19:42:17 EST From: LrdRas at aol.com Subject: SC - Calamari, squid, cuttlefish TerryD at Health.State.OK.US writes: << Looking at a couple of modern Italian cook books, the terms cuttlefish and squid are used interchangeably, although I seem to remember them as two different critters. >> Squid has longer tentacles and a paper thin clear internal shell. It can grow to gargantuan proportions although commercial squid are relatively small. Cuttlefish have short tentacles and contain an inner shell that is very hard and calcified (e.g. see the cuttle bones at the pet shop). To all intent and purposes , they are interchangable in the majority of recipes, SFAIK. Finding cuttlefish in American markets is almost next to impossible. Ras Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 22:52:55 +0000 From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net> Subject: Re: SC - Odd question And it came to pass on 7 Feb 98, that jeffrey s heilveil wrote: > It recently (last night) came up in conversation whether some form > of calamari is period. Anyone have any thoughts on the matter? > > Bogdan In (what else?) the 1529 "Libro de Guisados", there is a recipe which includes squid. Herewith a recipe which I have never redacted (and don't intend to, 'cause I hate squid). POTAJE DE CALAMARES Y JIBIAS Pottage of Squid and Cuttlefish The squid and cuttlefish must be well washed and clean, and after gently frying them, but not entirely, and when they are almost half cooked, take them out of the frying-pan and put them into a pot; and then put with them blanched almonds and raisins and pine nuts; and then take a few toasted almonds and pound them* and strain them** with a little vinegar watered down with fish broth if you have it; if not cast in a litle water so that it will not be too strong; and when the raisins and the almonds have been slightly fried with the squid and cuttlefish, take them and finish frying them; then cut them into pieces and when this is done prepare dishes. * In most recipes in the "Libro de Guisados" the instruction to "pound" something specifies that it is to be done in a mortar. ** Literally "pass them", which in most other recipes is followed by a phrase like "through a strainer" or "through a cloth". Hope this helps. Lady Brighid ni Chiarain of Tethba Barony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom mka Robin Carroll-Mann *** harper at idt.net Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 23:24:46 -0500 From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: Re: SC - Calamari, squid, cuttlefish > Squid has longer tentacles and a paper thin clear internal shell. It can grow > to gargantuan proportions although commercial squid are relatively small. > Cuttlefish have short tentacles and contain an inner shell that is very hard > and calcified (e.g. see the cuttle bones at the pet shop). To all intent and > purposes , they are interchangable in the majority of recipes, SFAIK. Finding > cuttlefish in American markets is almost next to impossible. > > Ras I think there's some kinda taxonomy action going on. Yes, the critters that end up as fried calamari, etc., are different animals from cuttlefish, but all cuttlefish are squid, IIRC, but not all squid are cuttlefish. Cuttlefish also live in somewhat different environments (depth, etc.) from your average little calamari squid, and swim with their tentacles facing forward, using tail fins, rather than backward with waterjet propulsion, as with loliga squid. Taillevent includes a recipe for cuttlefish (# 143) in his section on flat sea fish, which, oddly enough, also includes oysters, mussels, and lobster. The dish is called seiche, IIRC, which is, I assume, simply what the 14th-century Frenchman called cuttlefish. The fish is skinned and broken up into pieces, which I gather means either cut with a knife, or dismembered / torn apart by the tentacles. The pieces are fried in a dry, ungreased frying pan without water, but with a generous coating of salt in the pan (anyone who's pan-broiled a steak knows what that's all about, I suspect). They're parcooked, i.e. until "done", stirred frequently to prevent sticking and burning. The pieces are then wiped dry, and presumably de-salted somewhat, on a cloth, coated with flour (so far the only reference I've seen to coating fish before frying in the entire French-English medieval recipe corpus) and fried in oil, with onions added halfway through the frying of the cuttlefish, to keep them from burning. The cuttlefish pieces and the onions slices, or whatever form they take, are presumably drained from the oil and served with a white garlic sauce made with vinegar. It actually sounds pretty good, but then I am a confirmed calamari and cuttlefish fiend. So, oddly enough, is my six-year-old son. I can occasionally get barbecued cuttlefish in the Chinese grocery, hanging up alongside the ducks, the spare ribs, etc. I've also seen them fresh / raw in the same markets, and, now that I think about it, have a dried one in my fridge, which involves considerable soaking in baking soda and water to render palatable, not unlike the legendary lutefisk. Which reminds me: last night I encountered, in the Korean grocery just a few blocks from my home, dried, split, Alaskan pollack. They appeared to have been split, threaded on stocks, and hung up in a cold wind. Apart from being rather small, maybe ten inches long, they looked like they would make a decent lutefisk fish. They seemed, at first glance, rather expensive ($4.89 for maybe 12 ounces) but then I understand such fish are only about 1/4 of their original weight when dried, which would mean more like $1.63 per pound, soaked. I'll probably need to experiment with both a modern lutefisk recipe and some period stockfih recipes... . Adamantius Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 18:40:09 -0500 From: dangilsp at intrepid.net (Dan Gillespie) Subject: SC - calamari question Hello from West Virginia: Sorry to be so slow in answering the question concerning the use of calamari in period. I don't have a direct answer....but there is a recipe in the 1607 Libro de Cozina which calls for cuttlefish. I am thinking of using calamari to fudge on this one. For those who may not know, cuttlefish is a reltive of squid & octopi. Usually the only part you see of it is the cuttlefish bone in many bird cages. I'll post the recipe later if anyone is interested (being deliberately a spoon tease here). Take care, Antoine Dan Gillespie dangilsp at intrepid.net Dan_Gillespie at usgs.gov Martinsburg, West Virginia, USA Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 18:37:11 -0500 From: dangilsp at intrepid.net (Dan Gillespie) Subject: SC - cuttlefish recipes Hello from Sylvan Glen: Here's the cuttlefish recipes I promised from the 1607 Arte de Cozina. If anyone tries any of these, please let me know how the redaction comes out. Enjoy! Antoine Cap lxxj como se han de aderear el pescado xibia. Esta xibia es pescado como le(n)guados, y tiene el pescado muy bla(n)co, y se haze ma(n)jar blanco del, y tiene mejor hebra que la gallina, y ta(n) buen sabor, y se come cozido co(n) sal, vinagre, azeyte y pimie(n)ta, frito co(n) mucha pimineta, y nara(n)ja y azeyte, porque es pescado fresco, y si no lleva mucha pimie(n)ta y azeyte es muy daoso; este pescado no se guarda salado, ni seco, ha se de comer fresco, y se puede dar empanado con ajos, y mucha especia, y azeyte es muy sabroso. Chap 71 How to fix cuttlefish This cuttlefish is a fish like the flounder, & has very white flesh & you may make a blancmange from it, & it has a better grain/ fiber than the hen, & it has a good flavor, & it is cooked with salt, vinegar, oil & pepper, fried with a lot of pepper & orange & oil, because it is a fresh fish, & if there is not put much pepper & oil it is very harmful; this fish is not kept salted nor dried, it must be eaten fresh, & you may give it out breaded with garlic & a lot of spices & oil, it is very tasty. Dan Gillespie dangilsp at intrepid.net Dan_Gillespie at usgs.gov Martinsburg, West Virginia, USA Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 10:01:59 +0000 From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net> Subject: Re: SC - cuttlefish & kids "Libro de Guisados" Spanish, 1529 POTAGE OF SQUID AND CUTTLEFISH Squid and cuttlefish should be very well washed and clean, and after gently frying them, and not completely, and when they are almost half cooked, take them out of the frying-pan, and put them in a pot; and then take blanched almonds and raisins and pine nuts; and then take a few toasted almonds and strain them with a little vinegar watered down with fish broth if you have any; if not, cast in a little water so that it will not be very strong; and when the raisins and the almonds are a little fried with the squid or the cuttlefish, take them and finish gently frying them; however they must be cut into pieces, and when this is done prepare dishes. I hope your lady finds this of interest. Brighid (who hates squid and would probably hate cuttlefish, too) Lady Brighid ni Chiarain of Tethba Barony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom mka Robin Carroll-Mann *** harper at idt.net Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 14:14:13 +0000 (GMT) From: Daria Anne Rakowski <dar3 at st-andrews.ac.uk> Subject: SC - Squid-Charter info A colleague of mine here has found a reference to serving cuttle-fish in a charter dated around 1216. (I could be a bit off) It was in a monastery in Portugal where the hostelier served what appears to be the little beasties cooked in their own ink. The problem was that these were highly undesirable as a food stuff (apparently) as the visiting abbott tried to bribe his way out of eating it! There was a mention of it being smelly too. Does anyone know if this methode of prep. would result in a fishy smell or could they have been off? (I've never tried it) Thanks, Coll Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 10:20:12 -0600 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: RE: SC - Squid-Charter info <deleted> > There was a mention of it being smelly > too. Does anyone know if this methode of prep. would result in a fishy > smell or could they have been off? (I've never tried it) > > Thanks, Coll Squids use ammonia for buoyancy. If they are not properly cleaned, you can still taste the ammonia (as I found in a Chinese restaurant one night). I believe this is true of all cephalopods. Bear Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 18:03:41 EST From: LrdRas at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - Squid-Charter info In a message dated 2/19/98 9:15:33 AM Eastern Standard Time, dar3 at st- andrews.ac.uk writes: << It was in a monastery in Portugal where the hosteler served what appears to be the little beasts cooked in their own ink. The problem was that these were highly undesirable as a food stuff (apparently) as the visiting abbott tried to bribe his way out of eating it! There was a mention of it being smelly too. Does anyone know if this method of prep. would result in a fishy smell or could they have been off? (I've never tried it) Thanks, Coll >> Many recipes for both cuttlefish and squid call for the addition of their ink. Since both creatures are sweet and succulent if fresh, I would suspect that they were "slightly off" Personally I have never eaten either one where there was any pronounced taste resembling fish. They are essentially shell-less mollusks. Their natural flavor being more akin to scallops, oysters, mussels, and what not. Definitely NOT fish like. Ras Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 22:43:59 -0700 From: "Anne-Marie Rousseau" <acrouss at gte.net> Subject: Re: SC - do you have any ideas ? From: Diamond <nordgate at worldnet.att.net> > I will be doing a feast at the end of September and I need some ideas for > scallops. nearly everything I have found has them cooked with ale. I would > rather do something different. > > Arabella Silvana > Arenal, Meridies You could do them like Robert Mays shrimps, ie stewed gently! in orange juice and white wine with nutmeg and pepper, and served with drawn butter and more OJ. Be aware that Robert May does not suggest to do this with scallops, only with shrimps. Great care should be taken not to over cook, of course... - --Anne-Marie, who had scallops for dinner last night. Yum! Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 12:32:25 SAST-2 From: "Ian van Tets" <IVANTETS at botzoo.uct.ac.za> Subject: SC - scallops and allergies There's a recipe in Elisabeth Ayrton's The Cookery of England for scallops as cooked by Elizabeth-commonly-known-as-Joan Cromwell, if that's not too late period for you. I think it was basically baked scallops covered with breadcrumbs and dotted with butter. FWIW, I used this recipe at 12th Night for contrafacted scallops (saffron and cheese-filled ravioli) in a fish course. Cairistiona Date: Sat, 08 Aug 1998 12:38:20 -0400 From: "Osburn-Day, Katherine" <katherine.osburn-day at lmco.com> Subject: RE: SC - do you have any ideas ? (Scallops) There is a scallop recipe in Le Menagier. I can look it up for you if you're interested and can't find it. Caterina Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 17:14:11 -0400 From: Phil & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: Re: SC - Crawfish Recipe Request Cindy Renfrow wrote: > There is also a brief mention of crayfish in Le Menagier de Paris (Power, > p. 272): > > "Crayfish cooked in water and wine and eaten with vinegar." There's also a recipe for a meat tile of poultry or veal in Le Menagier, fried meat braised in, or sauced with, I forget which offhand, a crayfish-flavored almond-milk brewet, and garnished with the meat from the crayfish tails. The above nota (re poaching and eating with vinegar) is more or less straight from Taillevent. There's also a recipe for sauteed, stuffed crayfish in Chiquart's Du Fait de Cuisine, involving taking the neat out of boiled crayfish, chopping it with parsley and, I think, butter and vinegar, stuffing it back into the shells and frying, stuffed side down, for a few minutes before serving. Adamantius stgardr, East Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 21:49:01 -0400 From: Phil & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: SC - Two crayfish recipes In response to a gentle's request for crayfish recipes, I mentioned and described two from period French sources. Unfortunately, this is looking like a stressful week and my I need my memory for other things, and, to be blunt, mucked up the descriptions pretty badly. Here they are again, in more or less their original form, albeit translated: "A Tile of Meat (Tuile de Char). Take cooked crayfish and remove the flesh from the tails; and the rest, to wit tails and carcase, must be brayed for a very long time; and afterwardstake unpeeled almonds, and let them be shelled and washed in hot water like peas, and let them be brayed with the shell in what is abovesaid and with them bray breadcrumbs browned on the grill. Now you should have capons, chickens and pullets broken all raw into quarters, or veal broken into gobbets, and cooked, and with their sewe wherein they be cooking you should moisten and dilute what you have brayed and thrn pass it through a strainer; then bray the dregs left [in the strainer] once maore and strain again; then add ginger, cinnamon, clove and long pepper, moistened with verjuice without vinegar, and boil all together. Now let your meat be cooked in pork's fat in gobbets or quarters, and serve it forth in bowls and pour pottage over it and on the pottage, in each bowl, set four or five crayfish tails, with powdered sugar over all." The Goodman of Paris (Le Menagier de Paris, ~1390), Eileen Power, translator 1928 Harcourt, Brace, New York "68. Again, Stuffed Crayfish: to instruct the person who will have to do thse stuffed crayfish, see that he has a great quantity of crayfish, that he washes them thoroughly, sets them to cook in good water with salt; when they have cooked, take them out onto good clean work-tables. Take the largest ones for stuffing and remove the big shells, clean them and set them aside in good dishes; then take the necks and legs of those large crayfish and enough of the others to stuff the number of crayfish he intends to stuff, and remove the meat from inside them; in the necks and entrails that are there, then put them on a good work-table and chop them up very fine and put it in a good dish. Then he should see that he has very good parsley which has been cleaned, washed and drained; he should chop it up very fine and mix it in with the crayfish meat, with a little good white ginger and saffron to give it colour. Then get the crayfish shells which were set aside above, and put some of that filling into one shell and place another one face down on it, and put each of them like that one against the other. Then see that he has good clarified oil and put them to fry in good clean pans; when they have fried, take them out into fine dishes and sprinkle sugar on top of them. Then they are served up when it is time." Maitre Chiquart Amiczo, 'Du Fait de Cuisine', 15th century, Terence Scully translation, 1986 Peter Lang Publishing, New York. Adamantius stgardr, East Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 20:52:49 -0500 From: vjarmstrong at aristotle.net (Valoise Armstrong) Subject: Re: SC - Crawfish Recipe Request Here's one from Das Kochbuch der Sabina Welserin (c. 1553, Augsburg) 48 To prepare crayfish Boil the crayfish well, remove the back and front shells and pound them in a mortar. Take then a toasted Semmel [similar to a hard roll] and put pea broth on it and strain it through a clean cloth or a fine-meshed colander, and a little good wine. Salt it and temper it with good spices, saffron, cinnamon, ginger and sugar. Take fat, stir flour into it and pour the strained crayfish thereon and let it boil. After that sprinkle sugar upon it. This is a good lordly dish. Valoise Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 16:19:55 -0400 From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow) Subject: Re: SC - Crawfish Recipe Request >Would anyone be able to assist me in locating some period recipes for >crawfish? > >Matheus de Troyes >mka Brian Songy Hello! Here is the only mention of crayfish found in my book, "Take a Thousand Eggs or More": "Harleian MS. 279 - Dyuerse Bake Metis xiij. Vn Vyaunde furnez san[3] nom de chare. Take flowre, Almaunde milke, & Safroune, & make [th]er-of .iiij. tynez, & frye [th]i tynez in Oyle; nym [th]en Almaundys, & draw [th]er-of mylke ry[3]t [th]ikke; nym mace[3], Quybibe[3], & floure of Rys, Canelle, Galyngale; take [th]enne haddok, Creue[3], Perchys, Tenche[3], & se[th]e; whan [th]ey ben sothyn, take [th]in fyssche from [th]e bonys, & bray it ry[3]t smal with [th]in Spicerye to-gederys, & make [th]er-of [th]in farsure. Whan it is y-makyd, departe it in .iiij. partyis, [th]at o partye whyte, [th]at o[th]er [3]elow, [th]e [th]rydde grene, [th]e fer[th]e blak coloure with Fygys, Roysonys, an Datys; take [th]e firste cours of [th]e Fyssche, of al [th]e .iiij. cours, & ley on [th]in cyvey a-bouyn [th]in Fyssche, in .iiij. quarterys, as a chekyr, as brode as [th]in cake, & caste a-bouyn Sugre of Alysaundre, & [th]er-vppe-on [th]ine tyne. Nym an-o[th]er cours, & ley on [th]i .iiij. quarterys as brode as [th]in tyne, & [th]er-vppe-[on] [th]in Sugre. Nym [th]e [th]rydde cours of [th]in Fyssche, & ley on .iiij. quarterys, & caste a-boue Sugre, & a tyne. Nym [[th]e] .iiij. cours a-cordant to [th]in o[th]er, a-[th]enched to-geder, an a-boue a hole as a rose, & cetera. 13. Vn Vyaunde furnez san[3] nom de chare. Take flour, Almond milk, & Saffron, & make thereof four pancakes, & fry thy pancakes in Oil; take then Almonds, & draw thereof milk very thick; take maces, Cubebs, & flour of Rice, Cinnamon, Galingale; take then haddock, Crayfish, Perch, Tench, & seethe; when they are seethed, take thine fish from the bones, & bray it very small with thine Spicery together, & make thereof thine stuffing. When it is made, depart it in 4 parts, that one part white, that other yellow, the third green, the fourth black color with Figs, Raisins, and Dates; take the first layer of the Fish, of all the 4 layers, & lay on thine stew above thine Fish, in 4 quarters, as a checker, as broad as thine cake, & cast above Sugar of Alexandria, & thereup[on] thine pancake. Take another layer, & lay on thy 4 quarters as broad as thine pancake, & thereupon thine Sugar. Take the third layer of thine Fish, & lay on 4 quarters, & cast above Sugar, & a pancake. Take [the] 4th layer accordant to thine other, contrived* together, and above a hole as a rose,** & etcetera. *? From O.E. a[th]encan (pron. a[th]enchan), to think, contrive, devise, etc. ** Perhaps this means that the top layer is to have a decorative hole cut out in the shape of a rose." (From "Take a Thousand Eggs or More," vol.2, p. 356, copyright 1997, Cindy Renfrow.) There is also a brief mention of crayfish in Le Menagier de Paris (Power, p. 272): "Crayfish cooked in water and wine and eaten with vinegar." Cindy Renfrow/Sincgiefu renfrow at skylands.net Author & Publisher of "Take a Thousand Eggs or More, A Collection of 15th Century Recipes" and "A Sip Through Time, A Collection of Old Brewing Recipes" http://www.alcasoft.com/renfrow/ Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 07:16:23 -0500 From: "Philip W. Troy & Susan Troy" <troy at asan.com> Subject: Re: SC - meat days and fast days - MIXED? Stefan li Rous wrote: > > "And as at such a feast there could be some very high, puissant, noble, > > venerable and honorable lords and ladies who do not eat meat, for these > > there must be fish, marine and fresh-water, fresh and salt, in such manner > > as one can get them. > > > > And as the sea-bream is king of the other sea fish, listed first is the > > sea-bream, conger-eel, grey mullet, hake, sole, red mullet, dorade, plaice, > > turbot, sea-crayfish... > > > Concerning fresh-water fish: big trout, big eels, lampreys, filleted char, > > fillets of big pike, fillets of big carp, big perch, ferrs, palls, > > graylings, burbot, crayfish, and all other fish." > > Would this "sea-crayfish" be what we know as lobster? Unlikely. What we call lobster (Homardus Americanus, IIRC) does get into the Eastern Atlantic, but not in the concentration we find it in the Western Atlantic. The spiny lobster is found in the South Atlantic, the Mediterranean, and, I think, the Pacific (they lack the big front claws, and are the basis for most frozen lobster tails). But there are several less commercially viable (read "smaller") arthropods found in the Mediterranean that probably include what Mistress Elizabeth translates as sea-crayfish. Scully uses the word "lobster", but without the original French word, it could be almost anything, ranging from langouste (spiny lobster), langoustine (a smaller version actually classified in English as a prawn or lobsterette, closely related to both the scampi and the Dublin Bay Prawn), slippershell lobster, squillfish, etc. BTW, if I remember correctly, the father of the Red Count Amadeus of Savoy (Chiquart's employer/patron, later Duke of Savoy, and later still, Pope) had bought (!) a county on the Mediterranean coast (either Nice or Marseilles, I forget which) so as to have local access to fresh fish, among other considerations. Another BTW: Chiquart's employer, Amadeus, is one of those great lords who, by choice, ate no meat, IIRC. Du Fait de Cuisine does give both meat and fish versions of the same dishes in comparable menus (part or all of the feast Chiquart is writing about falls on a fish day, so he may be including the information on the meat dishes just for the reader's information), but it seems extremely likely Amadeus had all the fish versions of the dishes described served to him, regardless of the day. Adamantius stgardr, East Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 00:28:03 -0500 From: "Philippa Alderton" <phlip at bright.net> Subject: Re: SC - meat days and fast days - MIXED? Stefan asks: >Would this "sea-crayfish" be what we know as lobster?< It should be more like the langustinos, or the South African Lobster tails they sell- no big front claws like our Maine lobster. Phlip Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 10:34:09 -0400From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>Subject: Re: SC - Lobster - period?"Oughton, Karin (GEIS, Tirlan)" wrote:> One of the possibles is to do lobsters...> Are there any period sources I could be pointed at, have you got any> personal goodies?>From Diuersa Servicia, Book II of Curye On Inglysch, Ed. Hieatt andButler, Early English Text Society, Oxford University Press, 1985:"66. For to make blomanger of fysch, tak a pound of rys. Les hem wel &wasch; & se)th) tyl (th)ey breste & lat hem kele; & do (th)ereto mylk ofto pound of almandys. Nym (th) perche or (th) lopuster & boyle yt, &kest sugur & salt also (th)erto, & serue yt forth."on the next page..."75. For to mak a lopister, he schal be rostyd in his scalys in a oueno(th)er by (th) feer vnder a panne, and eten wy(th) veneger."As I recall, Taillevent suggests eating them with vinegar or verjuice.Roasted lobsters, BTW, are a bit of work to get out of the shell,compared to moist-cooked versions, but have a concentrated lobsterflavor that is impossible to reproduce or even describe. I like minewith a sauce made from butter, salt and pepper, and single-malt Scotch whiskey.Adamantius Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 14:44:46 -0500 From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net> Subject: Re: SC - New to the list with questions And it came to pass on 14 Nov 99,, that Jo Marie Friedel wrote: > Are there any 14th C French recipes for shellfish (in particular, > mussels and shrip/prawns)? I see lots for fish and eels but have yet to > run across any for shellfish. Yes. Scully, in _Early French Cookery_ (a book you might wish to look at) has a recipe for mussels that comes out of the Viandier. They're cooked in water and vinegar with mint (optional). Serve with vinegar, green verjuice, or green garlic sauce. Shrimp (also according to the Viandier), are boiled in wine and water, with a little salt, and served with vinegar. > Tygre Marie Lady Brighid ni Chiarain Settmour Swamp, East (NJ) Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 16:07:41 -0600 From: Magdalena <magdlena at earthlink.net> Subject: Re: SC - New to the list with questions > Are there any 14th C French recipes for shellfish (in particular, > mussels and shrip/prawns)? I see lots for fish and eels but have yet to > run across any for shellfish. Since I have it open... ;> Platina is 15th century Italian. He has recipes for (book 10 On Cooking fish) for sea urchin, mollusks, oysters, mussels, purple fish, murex and lobster, crab, caviar, octopus, cuttle-fish, squid, and other strange beasties. Oh, and fish. ;> - -Magdalena Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 17:23:38 -0500 From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: Re: SC - New to the list with questions Jo Marie Friedel wrote: > Are there any 14th C French recipes for shellfish (in particular, > mussels and shrip/prawns)? I see lots for fish and eels but have yet to > run across any for shellfish. Le Viandier de Taillevent has recipes for oysters and crayfish, if I remember correctly. The oysters are made into a pottage, as I recall, and the crayfish simply boiled and eaten with vinegar or verjuice (I forget which) and possibly salt. I know there are 14th-century English recipes for mussels in brewet, which call for the mussels and some minced onion to be cooked in ale with saffron. Chiquart's Du Fait de Cuisine, early 15th century French, has a recipe for stuffed crayfish that I've always wanted to try: it involves lightly boiling the crayfish, picking the meat out of the shells, and chopping it up with vinegar and, I think, parsley, and the mixture is stuffed back into the shells, and fried face-down (open-side down, that is) in oil until brown. I'm working from memory here, bear with me. Adamantius Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 13:03:16 -0500 From: "Kappler, MMC Richard A." <KAPPLERR at swos.navy.mil> Subject: SC - oyster pie >Could you post this recipe (and a redaction if you have one) sometime? This >sounds interesting. Oyster Pie, Markham II, 125 Take of the greatest oysters drawn from the shells, and parboil them in verjuice: then put them into a colander, and let all the moisture run from them, till they be as dry as possible: then raise up the coffin of the pie, and lay them in: then put to them good store of currants and fine powdered sugar, with whole mace, whole cloves, whole cinnamon, and a nutmeg sliced, dates cut, and a good store of sweet butter: then cover, and only leave a vent hole: when it is baked, then draw it, and take white wine, and white wine vinegar, sugar, cinnamon, and sweet butter, and melt it together; then first trim the lid therewith, and candy it with sugar; then pour the rest in at the vent hole, and shake it well, and so set it into the oven again for a little space, and so serve it up, the dish edges trimmed with sugar. Now some use to put to this pie onions sliced and shred, but that is referred to discretion, and to the pleasure of the taste. From the Michael Best edition of Markham's _The English Housewife_, McGill-Queens University Press, 1986, ISBN 0-7735-1103-2 I do not have a redaction yet as I have thus far been unable to find verjiuce in my area and it is past the time of year for me to make my own. Whenever I ask for it in a local market I get blank stares. Plenty of coffee syrup, no verjuice :-( regards, Puck Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 17:30:19 EST From: Aldyth at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - Re: Seven Centuries of English Cooking LrdRas at aol.com writes: << It would be nice if the original recipe and the modern recipe being discussed could be posted so the rest of us could understand what is being talked about >> The book is _Seven Centuries of English Cooking A collection of Recipes. By Maxime de la Falaise Edited by Arabella Boxer. Published by Grove Press Printed in 10/92. ISBN 0-8021-3296-0 Vyaunde de Cyprys in Lent: (Two Fifteenth Century Cookbooks) Take Gode thikke mylke of Almaundys, & do it on a potte: & nyme the Fleysshe of fode Crabbys, &gode Samoun, & bray it smal, & tempere yt uppe with the forsayd mylke; boyle it, an Iye it with floure of Rys or Amyndoun, an make it chargeaunt; when it ys y-boylid, do ther-to whyte Sugre, a gode quantyte of whyte Vernage Pime, with the wyne, Pome-garnade. When it is y-dressyd, straw a-boue the grayne of Pome-garnade. Crab and Salmon Mould serves 3-4 1/2 pound fresh crab meat, cooked 1/2 pound salmon, cooked 1 cup almond milk 2 TBS Rice flour 2 TBS White Wine 2 TBS Sugar Seeds from 1-2 pomegranates Flake the crab meat and salmon, put them in a blender with the almond milk and puree. Spoon into saucepan, heat gently and sprinkle in the flour. Stir until thickened, and then add the wine and sugar. Stir in the pomegranate seeds and season to taste with a little pepper and salt. Chill in a wetted mould. Turn out to serve. Aldyth Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 06:44:56 -0500 From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: Re: SC - Re: Seven Centuries of English Cooking LrdRas at aol.com wrote: > For example, the seafood should be, IMO, chopped very fine or mashed in a > mortar. Liquefying it is a big stretch and would produce a far different > texture than they were capable of producing at the time that this was > originally written. Probably true, but ultimately I'm not sure how much real difference it will make. The original says to "bray it small", I believe, which basically means to mash or puree, depending on how small you want it. Reducing it to baby food or even a healthy shake isn't my idea of a good time, but this book was written before the advent of the domestic cuisinart and before the return of the mortar as a fashionable kitchen gadget. It may be that it's understood that blender users have a bit of control with pulse settings, just as they might with a food processor today, but a finer puree may simply reflect the tastes of the year this book was written (1973?). In the end it gets thickened pretty dramatically anyway. Adamantius Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 19:57:48 -0600 From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com> Subject: SC - Vyaunde de Cyprys in Lent (was: Seven Centuries of English Cooking) At 3:40 PM -0500 1/25/00, Aldyth at aol.com wrote: >...Two recipes caught my eye. One was "Crab >and Salmon Mould" which is taken from _Two Fifteenth-Century Cookery Books_ >the recipe reads "Vyaunde de Cyprys in Lent". It bears little resemblance to >Cindy Renfrows interpretation, believe me. I would be glad to post all three >recipes if you want. I don't even see how Maxime's recipe would result in a >molded thing. Here is our version of this recipe from the Miscellany. Vyaunde de Cyprys in Lent Two Fifteenth Century p. 28/57 Take good thick milk of almonds, and do it on a pot; nym the flesh of good crabs, and good salmon, and bray it small, and temper it up with the foresaid milk; boil it, and lye it with flour of rice or amyndoun, and make it chargeaunt; when it is yboiled, do thereto white sugar, a gode quantitie of white vernage pimes [apparently a wine like muscadine] with the wine, pomegranate. When it is ydressed, strew above the grains of pomegranate. almond milk: (see p. 7) 7 oz salmon 4 t Rhine wine 2 oz blanched almonds 2 T rice flour 2 T pomegranate juice 1 c water 3 T sugar pomegranate seeds 7 oz crabmeat Make almond milk. Remove skin and bones from salmon, cut salmon and crab into cubes and shred with French chef's knife. Mix fish and almond milk and cook over medium heat; add sugar, wine, and pomegranate juice after 5 minutes; add rice flour after 11 minutes, cook, stirring, another minute, remove from heat and keep stirring another half minute. Garnish with pomegranate seeds. Elizabeth/Betty Cook Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 09:06:09 -0500From: "Siegfried Heydrich" <baronsig at peganet.com>Subject: Re: SC - Getting people to eat period food A Frutti di Mar is just a generic term used to describe an antipastothat's made with seafood (usually whatever was available in the market orthe guys brought home on the boats), and there is no 'recipe' per se. It'smore a matter of 'whatcha got'. A good Sicilian Frutti di Mar traditionally has ingredients that willmake most Americans power chunder on the spot. The octopus, squid, and conchare usually cut into small, bite sized pieces, marinaded or pickled, andthings like mussels, clams, or oysters were steamed lightly, then added tothe mixture still in the shell. You can find frozen conch in most seafoodstores, even up north. Sieggy Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 10:12:32 -0600 (MDT) From: grasse at mscd.edu (Martina Grasse) Subject: SC - Shrimp auf Rumpolts art In the original these dishes are in Rumpolt's chapter on Krebs. The woodcut shows a lobster, but if you look up Flusskrebs the translation is crawfish, so I used shrimp (because they were on sale, and I was bringing them to Caerthe's Cavalier Holiday picnic last Sunday, and I'm on a budget.) I will be cooking the feast (probably straight from Rumpolt) for Caerthe's Arts and Sciences competition in November, and have had requests to find a way to include at least one of these in one of the courses. (Yes, I take requests.) I do not have the transcribed German to hand (will do tonight) and I do not have the translation (see above for reason ;-) But I do remember what I did to re-create it, and both these recipes tasted soo good I had to share (while we are on a Rumpolt kick.) #16 400 year old fried shrimp ;-) 1/2 pound of large (25-30 per lb) raw shrimp 1/4 cup of flour 4oz butter salt, pepper and powdered, dried ginger (to taste) Rinse shrimp, peel (and devine) but leave the tail shell attached. Salt and pepper the shrimp, then dust them with flour (enough to coat, but shake off any excess.) In a heavy medium size skillet melt and heat the butter. In the hot butter, fry the shrimp on both sides till golden brown and done, but don't overcook. I used high heat, the butter started to brown a little. The shrimp were done very quickly and picked up a little of that nutty brown butter flavor. Remove and drain the shrimp (on absorbent toweling) and while still hot dust them with the ginger (to taste.) This is great hot and also very good cold. (I took it to a picnic to great reviews.) #11 Shrimp with butter and verjuice 5 extra large raw shrimp (the 12-16 per lb. Size) 1 T butter 1 t verjuice pepper 5 Oyster shells (deep half) (would make 1 dinner serving or 2-3 appetizers, increase as needed) I did not have oyster shells to hand, so I used scallop shells. Peel, tail, and devine your shrimp. Place one shrimp (curled up) into deep end of each shell. Season with pepper (to taste,) then top with a dollop of butter (I think I used about 1/2 t per shrimp) and a few drops of verjuice. (OK, I gotta admit I had to cheat here... I do not have verjuice in my pantry yet, so I experimented, I did 2 with cider vinegar, 2 with balsamic vinegar, and one with red wine that was too sour for my tastes.) The balsamic was the standout winner. To cook I placed my 5 scallop shells (filled with their precious cargo) into my largest skillet, added water to the skillet (not enough to flow into the shells!) and placed a lid on it. Then turned on the heat and let them steam away till they were cooked through (about 5 minutes.) This was wonderfully rich, and looked very elegant hot from the pan, and they were still delicious and showy served room temperature the next day at the park. I think you could use smaller shrimp and place 3-5 in each shell, thereby extending your shells (my biggest skillet only fit the 5 shells I own, and by placing multiples per shell I could have appetizers for 5 rather than seeming chintzy at only serving each person one shrimp, or having to do 3-5 batches so my guest would have to eat their appetizers in shifts;-) Hope you enjoy, and as always, feedback appreciated. Gwen-Catrin von Berlin Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 21:06:27 -0600 (MDT) From: grasse at mscd.edu (Martina Grasse) Subject: SC - Re: sca-cooks V1 #2348 rumpolt shrimp Here is transliteration and translation of the recipes I posted earlier. # 11 Nim die Krebsschwa:entz/ thu sie mit Butter in Austernschalen/ pfeffers/ vnd thu ein wenig Agrastbru:eh darein/ las in den Austernschalen auffsieden/ gib es also warm auf ein Tisch 11 Take the crawfish tails/ put them with butter into oystershells/ pepper (them)/ and put a little verjuice therein/ let it simmer in the oystershells/ give it warm to the table. #16 Wenn die Krebs klein seind/ so dreh das fo:erder am Schwantz herausz/ nim{m} die Oberschalen davon hinweg/ lasz die Schalen am Schwantz hengen/ pfeffers/ Saltzs vnd Mehls wol/ backs ausz der heiszen Butter/ gibs trucken also warm auff ein Tisch/ bestra:ew es mit einem Jngwer/ so ist es gut vnd wolgeschmack. 16 If the crawfish are small/ so twist the front away from the tail/ take the shells away/ (but) leave the shell attached at the tail/ pepper/ salt and flour (them) well/ bake (fry) them in the hot butter/ give dry and warm to a table/ sprinkle it with ginger/ so it is good and welltasting. Gwen Cat von Berlin Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 12:46:36 -0400 From: margali <margali at 99main.com> Subject: Re: SC - Iscia ex Spondylis > IIRC, I did this Apician recipe using scallops. However, my interpretation of > the recipe was very different from what you describe. My was a patty (fritter > like, IIRC). > > Could you post the translated recipe so I can be sure we are talking about > the same recipe? > > Ras My old standby, granted I have this from waaaaaaay back when all I had access to was the Vehling: [lightly] cook scallops remove the hard and objectionable parts, mince the meat very fine, mix this with cooked spelt and eggs, season with pepper, [shape into croquettes and wrap] in caul, fry, underlay a rich fish sauce and serve as a delicious entree. The shrimp is because I almost always have shrimp on hand, and I really like shrimp, and I seem to remember back in our old discussions on the recipe that spondylis was undecided. I used the coarsegrained spelt because I just laid in my pennsic supply, and it is a period roman grain. I made the spelt into a really pastlike cream of wheat, thick enough to be fairly solid when cold. I pounded the shrimps in a small mortar [one of the 2 cup marble ones, that being what I have at home and doing a 2 person amount] then when they were a paste I glorped in the cream o'spelt and mixed it thoroughly, added egg and white pepper [being out of black, the penzeys run is next week] and fried in fat peeled off of the pork roast we did a few weeks ago and stashed in the freezer. There is not much difference, IMHO between round like meatballs, flat patties or any other form, as long as they are mouthful in size and don't fall apart when eaten with fingers ;-) To whit: 1 cup cream o'spelt, cold [just sub in spelt semolina for the cream of wheat in a typical 3 serving batch] 8 oz shrimps, peeled and sightly cooked in water with a bit of worchestershire sauce [my desired sub for garum] 4 whole medium eggs, beaten lightly 1 quarter tsp ground white pepper 3 tbsp pork lard the sauce was fish sauce, wine, cumin, pepper and honey. I used some of the poaching medium from teh shrimp boosted with a bit more of the worchestershire sauce, and added preground cumin, white pepper and some barberone wine, tasted and added just enough honey, in its capacity for augmenting flavor rather than making it sweet. I simmered it down a bit to make it much less drippy, about a one third reduction. 1 half cup poaching liquid 1 tbsp worchestershire sauce 1 quarter cup barberonne 1 quarter tsp pepper 1 quarter tsp cumin 1 tsp honey I plated it with the sauce on the side in dipping bowls. I know that Vehling said to underlay it with the sauce, but I prefer dipping. margali Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 10:12:34 -0400 From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: Re: SC - Iscia ex Spondylis Stefan li Rous wrote: > What are these "hard and objectionalble" parts on scallops? All the scallops > I've seen were round disks about an inch in diameter and about half that > thick, sometimes smaller sometimes larger depending upon whether they were > from ocean or bay. These were firm, kind of like shrimp in firmness but > I don't remember any "hard and objectionalble" parts. Or were these > already removed from the ones I saw for sale at the seafood counter? Very possibly, yes. Scallops are a fairly complex organism, and unless you get them live, in the shell, in places like France or parts of Asia, what you're getting and eating is the adductor muscle (the one that holds the shells closed), which is really two muscles wrapped in a medium-tough membrane. Once that membrane is removed, you have two muscles, one being the larger, sweet, tender "tenderloin", the part usually associated with scallops. The other is known in English as the "strap", and it's much smaller, less sweet, and full of connective tissue. All bivalves have adductor muscles, but for most edible species the adductor is more like the strap than like the main adductor of a scallop. Usually only culinary deviants like myself bother to eat and enjoy the adductors of mussels, clams, and oysters. > I may have to try this recipe sometime, when I'm feeling extravagent. > Although as I remember there is a big difference in price between the > bay and ocean scallops. For what it's worth, Flower and Rosenbaum translate sphondylis as mussels, and they're much cheaper than even bay scallops in most places. I think the use of scallops is another Vehlingism, but looking at the sauce and serving method, I suspect that something more powerfully flavored than scallops might do well. Adamantius Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 09:13:22 -0500 From: "Michael F. Gunter" <michael.gunter at fnc.fujitsu.com> Subject: Re: SC - Iscia ex Spondylis > What are these "hard and objectionalble" parts on scallops? All the scallops > I've seen were round disks about an inch in diameter and about half that > thick, sometimes smaller sometimes larger depending upon whether they were > from ocean or bay. > -- > Lord Stefan li Rous Barony of Bryn Gwlad Kingdom of Ansteorra What you get in the supermarket are scallops that have been deshelled, cleaned and presented for your approval. The part you eat is basically a muscle that is pretty much in the center of the animal. If you open a shell you will see this pearly white chunk of meat in the middle of a bunch of typically icky shellfish parts. You cut the white chunk out and discard the rest. There is usually a rather hard and rubbery pinkish muscle attached to it that you sometimes get in seafood shops. I think they leave it on as an indicator that it really is scallop and not whitefish. Trim that off before you prepare the dish. I hope that clarifies things. Gunthar Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 21:37:04 -0400 From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: Re: SC - Iscia ex Spondylis "Michael F. Gunter" wrote: > There is usually a > rather hard and rubbery pinkish muscle attached to it that you sometimes > get in seafood shops. I think they leave it on as an indicator that it really > is scallop and not whitefish. Trim that off before you prepare the dish. Sorry, I intended to mention this earlier today... whether the "strap" is left on as a badge of authenticity I couldn't say, but the standard rumor about faux scallops has always been, AFAIK, that they're punched from skate wings. And while skate wings in their raw form could be said to vaguely resemble scallops if skinned, boned, and cut into rounds with a sort of cookie cutter, the deception would be immediately apparent once the fish is cooked; the texture is entirely different, and a less-than-fresh skate wing smells even worse, if such a thing is imaginable, than a bad scallop. Skates being one of those deep-water, ammonia-producing fish... A.J. MacLane says in The Encyclopedia of Fish Cookery that the practice is very widely known but almost never actually practiced. I have, however, seen some kinda funky surimi/fish cake forms being sold as scallops. Adamantius Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 17:50:10 -0400 From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd at gate.net> Subject: Re: SC - Scallop If you can find it the check out the following book, "The Scallop; Studies of a shell and its influences on Humankind" by eight authors, Edited by Ian Cox, C.B.E., M.A. published in London by the "Shell" Transport and Trading Company, Ltd. 1957, Its got everything etymology, biology, symbology, iconology, heraldry, and how to cook'em. Daniel Raoul Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 20:43:46 -0400 From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: Re: SC - need calamari advice Robin Carroll-Mann wrote: > I've eaten squid before, but never cooked it. I was redacting a recipe > from de Nola (which I will post soon) which called for the squid to be > gently fried (sofrito), then cooked in an almond milk sauce. I fried it on > medium for 5 minutes, then simmered for 30 minutes, which seemed to > be a time recommended by many recipes on the web. The rings (cut > from the body, not tentacles, if that matters) were edible, but not quite > as tender as I would have liked. Should I have cooked them longer? I > kept testing them throughout the 30 minutes, and could not cut them > with the edge of my wooden spoon, so I kept simmering. Incidently, > cuttlefish is an alternative fish for this recipe, and I saw several recipes > that suggested *it* be simmered for 40-45 minutes. Squid and cuttlefish both seem to respond well to either a quick or a slow cooking, but medium tends to be deadly. Not unlike tomatoes in this respect. Squid should be cooked for less than five minutes, roughly, or for an hour or so, according to most of the slow-cooked recipes I've seen. Same for cuttlefish, which is similarly constructed, up to a point, but generally much larger and meatier. > So what's the deal here? Should the squid be cooked longer? Does > cuttlefish require more time than squid? (And how does it differ from its > cousin?) Can the two be cooked together without causing problems? Probably you could cook cuttlefish for 10 minutes or so, and add squid perhaps halfway through. I'm not sure, though, at what point you could cut them with a wooden spoon. They are kind of crunchy by nature when cooked, and while the texture does change with additional cooking, it goes from being slightly rubbery, but kind of al dente, to being that sort of deep rubber texture of a hard pencil eraser. Some people do find this preferable, since it is more... yielding to the teeth, although somewhat hard. Probably the closest thing I can liken it to is the firm tenderness of, say, very hard hard-boiled eggs. I know there are some Mediterranean squid and cuttlefish dishes that call for this type of long braising, and the canned squid in sauce made from their ink is a descendant of these. My own preference is to saute the squid very quickly in a hot pan, then add the sauce ingredients and just finish cooking the fish. Adamantius Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 23:11:39 -0400 From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: Re: SC - need calamari advice Alan mcdowell wrote: > How the deuce does one clean calamari? And is it good > deep fried in a batter? I can obtain calamari both fresh and frozen but balked > at all the 'eyes' and tentacles. >laughing< > Squeamishness from a big game hunter...go figure. For larger squid, say, a body tube length of 6 inches or less: grasp body tube in the non-dominant hand (if you are right-handed, grasp tube in left hand), and the head/tentacle section in the other hand. Using slow, steady tension, pull the head off the rest of the body, and most of the entrails will come away with it. Stick your finger into the body tube and scrape out any remaining entrails, sand, if any, and make sure to loosen and remove the clear plastic-y-looking bone. It looks like something in between a piece of cellophane and a clear polished ladies' long fingernail, running pretty much the length of the body. For larger squid you'll want to remove the purplish skin; rubbing a little coarse salt over the squid will help scrape it away, or just peel it away with your fingers. You may want to pull off the tail fins -- these run along the rear half (actually the front half, when the squid is swimming) of the body tube, and can be a bit tough, but are easily removed by simply pulling them off. With smaller squid you may feel okay about leaving the skin and fins in place, but skinning them makes for a more attractive, white seafood. Cut the tentacle/mouth section off the head, between the eyes and the tentacles. You may or may not want to get insane and retreive the two ink pouches from the entrail mass behind the head (these will be the dark black masses which are clearly not eyes). The ink is good in tomato sauces used to cook the squid, rolled into fresh pasta dough, and various other uses, including, perhaps, calligrapher's ink. You may want to clean and skin the tentacles with more coarse salt and a little patience. It is the favorite part for most squid lovers, it seems, but the larger suction cups on the tentacles can, on larger specimens, have little suction cup bones made of the same stuff the backbone is made of, in little rings fitting inside the suction cups. I just run my fingernail along the inside of each tentacle to remove these, and don't bother skinning anything but the body tubes. Yes, they can be battered and fried, although I much prefer a simple seasoned flour dusting for most European-style fried squid dishes, including the basic Southern Italian calamari fritte marinara. My favorite Asian-type fried squid dish involves either a dusting of rice flour or a rice flour or wheat starch batter, frying it, and quickly sauteeing it with roasted five-spice salt and chopped green chillies. Most of the squid sold in the USA seems to be frozen, including the stuff thawed and the sold as fresh in the fish markets. Unlike a lot of other seafoods, though, it seems to suffer relatively little from this treatment. I find this odd because there are loliga squid swimming visibly in the waters off New York City and Long Island, but we mostly get frozen squid from Indonesia. You can, BTW, pay somewhat more premium prices to get frozen and, theoretically, cleaned and skinned squid, and it does indeed contain somewhat less, ounce for ounce, guts, skin, and bones. It just is not entirely free of them. Usually it's a time-saver and makes for a much more pleasant trash bag after cooking, but you still have to give them a quick once-over. Adamantius Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 14:44:18 EDT From: KallipygosRed at aol.com Subject: SC - SC-Re Squid/Cook Times From my wonderful non-member friend, Hols, and her great storehouse of knowledge on squid, octopus, etc. Lars **Tell them that even two and a half minutes is too long for multi-legged swimmy things. The ideal way to cook octopus is to "blanch" it by dunking it in boiling water three times. After boiling in the name of the Father, Son, etc, it can be cleaned and cooked as directed.-Holly** Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 15:45:47 -0400 From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: Re: SC - SC-Re Squid/Cook Times KallipygosRed at aol.com wrote: > **Tell them that even two and a half minutes is too long for > multi-legged swimmy things. The ideal way to cook octopus is to "blanch" it > by dunking it in boiling water three times. After boiling in the name of > the Father, Son, etc, it can be cleaned and cooked as directed.-Holly** Certainly there are octopus that respond well to this kind of treatment, and many that are too large and tough; it'll depend on what you normally find in your area. I can see this method being effective with the small baby octos, particularly ones taken fresh from the Aegean, but the 2-3-pounders often sold frozen may requre a bit more. I suggest blanching them until you can skin them, and cooking them until they're done, and avoid relying too heavily on the timer. Adamantius Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 23:41:01 -0400 From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net> Subject: Re: SC - need calamari advice And it came to pass on 22 Aug 00,, that Philip & Susan Troy wrote: > You can, BTW, pay somewhat more premium prices to > get frozen and, theoretically, cleaned and skinned squid, and it does > indeed contain somewhat less, ounce for ounce, guts, skin, and bones. It > just is not entirely free of them. Usually it's a time-saver and makes for > a much more pleasant trash bag after cooking, but you still have to givce > them a quick once-over. > > Adamantius I got my squid -- frozen -- at a local Chinese grocery. It was cleaned, except for a bit of the plastic-like spine inside, and was only $2.99/lb, as compared to the fresh, intact-with-eyes-and-everything squid at the fish counter for $2.69/lb. The frozen calamari pieces in my local supermarket (mostly tentacle rings) are around $3.50/lb. Lady Brighid ni Chiarain Settmour Swamp, East (NJ) Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 23:31:30 -0400 From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net> Subject: Re: SC - Period Restaurant? And it came to pass on 23 Sep 00,, that Philip & Susan Troy wrote: > But as Phillipa states, there are indeed several > recipes for oysters (mostly pottages as I recall), and some for lobsters > (basic cooking and serving instructions, maybe not recipes per se) in the > medieval English and French corpus, and probably other cultures as well. Nola says that one cannot make perfect blancmange of fish w