roast-pork-msg - 1/21/07 Cooking pork roasts. Medieval recipes. NOTE: See also the files: roast-meats-msg, pork-msg, pig-to-sausag-art, Whole-Pig-Fst-art, whole-pig-msg, organ-meats-msg, larding-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 05:38:02 -0500 From: Maddie Teller-Kook Subject: Re: SC - Spices and sensitive palates My favorite recipe using pork is the Arista from "The Fine art of Italian Cooking" by Bugliali. He aludes to this dish being from the 15th Century tho he doesn't show the actual documentation. I put this recipe in the 'period=ish' category. Basically, it is a pork loin, seasoned with: slice 10 garlic cloves and mix with salt (I use kosher salt), freshly ground black pepper, fresh rosemary. Mix these together. split the loin, put half on the bottom half of the loin, add 10 whole black peppercorns... put the top half of the loin on top, tie with butchers cord. Cut a number of slits all over the roast. Take the rest of the mixture and coat the roast pushing the seasoning (especially the garlic slivers) into these slits. Drizzle some olive oil in a pan, place the pan in a preheated oven (to 350 deg. F) for a few minutes to heat the oil. Add meat to the pan. Cook until done. I prefer mine still juicy but not pink. Slice thin and serve as part of an antipasto. This is one of those meat dishes that tastes just as good cold as hot. meadhbh Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 15:23:49 -0400 From: Aine of Wyvernwood Subject: Re: SC - Pork Roasting My lord, one of the ways I check for temperature - and yes I own a meattemp thing, it's here ..... somewhere.... - is to just stick my favorite knife down into the thickest part, juice will run out...the color is one way, another is to let the knife sit there a minute or so, pull it out. If the blade is hot enough to ''burn'' yer finger then most likely the inside is done as well. tis a silly trick but useful over a campfire, when one cannot shred, or slice or whatever... so far, it has worked everytime...note the so far... aine Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 15:09:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Tyrca at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - Spices and sensitive palates Tyrca here. All this discussion about pork roasts is about to send me to the store, and see if the pork prices are somewhere in my wallet range (yum!) When we were in Germany about 5 years ago, a German friend of mine told me the best to cook a pork roast. I have not seen a recipe, this was really just discussion that I later took to the kitchen and tried out. In a large roaster pan or dutch oven, place roast, two large onions chopped, about 8 juniper berries, and a small handful of caraway seeds, then fill pan with 2 or 3 inches of water, and roast in a 350 degree F oven, basting periodically. My favorite part is the way the onion-flavored water causes the top of the roast to brown and crackle as it cooks. I have never had a sandwich made from this roast, because no matter how many (or how few) people, I feed, there are never any left-overs. Tyrca Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 15:34:27 -0400 From: Philip & Susan Troy Subject: Re: SC - Cormarye Michael F. Gunter wrote: > Hmmm! What source is Cormarye from? It sounds like it would be a perfect first > course for my 12th Night feast. If I can get pork butt fairly inexpensively > I think it would be wonderful for the "Commoners Course". > > Gunthar Curye on Inglysche -- "IV. The Forme of Cury, #54: Cormarye. Take colyaundre, caraway smale grounden, powdour of peper and garlec ygrounde, in rede wyne; medle alle 6ise togyder and salt it. Take loynes of pork rawe and fle of the skyn, and pryk it wel with a knyf, and lay it in the sawse. Roost it whan 6ou wilt, & kepe 6at 6at fallith 6erfro in the rostyng and see6 it in a possynet with faire broth, & serue it forth wi6 6e roost anoon." I see this as a marinated roast, with the marinade and the pan juices made into a sauce with additional broth. It might be the ultimate fighter's dish. Adamantius Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 09:06:35 -0400 From: Philip & Susan Troy Subject: Re: SC - Pork Roasting Mike C. Baker wrote: > Adamantius (Philip & Susan Troy) wrote: > > On a slightly tangential note, I frequently serve roast > > pork loins at events, and refuse to cook them to the > > bone-dry plywood stage almost invariably called for in most > > cookbooks. > > Covered pan? "Bagged"? Laboriously basted? I roast a pork loin in several different ways, but I think my favorite method for event purposes is a simple, real roast, or as close as it gets in a modern kitchen. Generally this means I sear the meat in very hot saute pans or on the infamous pancake griddle, season them with coarse salt and freshly ground pepper, and roast them in a 400 degree F. oven. A few months ago we served a feast with about six or eight meat dishes, so we cut whole, boned loins into four (roughly two-pound) portions, first cutting them in half into two segments, and then carefully splitting each half so there was fat and lean in each piece. We rolled and tied these, and, when cooked, they sliced into nice little 2.5 inch medallions. It would have been considered just slightly skimpy but for the presence of haggis, saumon gentil, cig oen a mel (Welsh honey-basted meat, in this case chicken), mussels, and mincemeat chewets made with emphasis on the meat. This is in addition to egg, cheese, and vegetable dishes. The pork got et with Sauce Robert, made from caramelized shredded onions, extra-fine matzoh [cake] meal toasted brown (an excellent source for extra-fine bread crumbs, BTW), white wine vinegar, Dijon mustard, reduced brown pork stock made from the roasted bones of the pork loins, and the deglazed pan juices from the meat. This would be more in the Taillevent tradition than the La Varenne style of this sauce, which apparently features butter and capers, which is equally good, but different. > My favorite method for pork loin involves a paper bag, > oil, spices, and long, slow, roasting. Considering other > uses of parchment in "antique" cookery, d'ya think that > a parchment envelope could be used for the same purpose? > (I've been cooking many years, but am still trying to > learn more about traditional / "ancient" techniques...) I'm more inclined to roast the meat quickly, but this is largely a policy adopted from the need to free up not-quite adequate oven space at events. Both methods work well, and the advantage of a slow roast is that there is less shrinkage of the meat as it cooks. My major objection to the methods involving bags is that the meat tends to steam or braise to some extent, and I do expect there to be a difference between something that is dry-roasted in an oven, and braised in a pot. Many people have no problem with this, though. > > Trichinosis parasites and their eggs are killed at > > 137 degrees F. internal temperature, at which point > > the meat is still pretty rare. I generally cook it to > > an internal temperature of 150 degrees, technically > > medium. Some people do become alarmed in spite of > > this, and have been known to complain that the meat > > wasn't sufficiently dead to their taste. It has juice. > > It has flavor. Bad cook! > > As a relative dabbler and culinary heretic, I do not even > own a meat thermometer. In particular with the "bagged" > pork loin, experience, proper timing and oven temperature, > and observation (is the surface of the roast a uniform > nut-brown? are the carved slices / pulled shreds tender and > moist, juicy but without bright pink color or running blood?) > tell me everything that I need to know, at least for my own > consumption. (Opening the bag before the cooking time has > completed is one of the most certain ways to spoil this > particular dish.) > > Given that there is still some risk, just how important is > the use of thermometric measurement as opposed to eyeball > and experience? The answer is right there in the question...yes, there is still some risk when you don't use a thermometer. But, there is also some risk when you do, if it isn't properly calibrated, or if you misread it, or if you don't do any of the various things that would catch temperature variances between, say, the front and the back of the oven, or top or bottom shelves. If you use a thermometer, you need to be sure you use it correctly. For the truly experenced, by which I mean, say, a roast cook for a large hotel or restaurant, (and I myself don't fall into this category) a thermometer might not be necessary. For ordinary humans it seems to be quite helpful in avoiding both danger and embarrassment. I like the little quick-register thermometers that look like a ball-point pen with a dial the size of a nickel on the end. They cost anywhere from 5 to 10 bucks, but are worth it, in my opinion. Adamantius Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 15:09:43 -0700 To: "Mark Harris" From: jtn at cottagesoft.com (Terry Nutter) Subject: Re: Cormarye >Greetings Katerine, > >I would love to get this recipe/redaction from you, either by email >or on the list. It sounds good and from the name I assume it is >medieval. Here it is, as copied from my recipes booklet; I hope you enjoy it as much as I do! Cormarye (Curye on Inglysch, Forme of Cury 54, 109) This is another, very different roast pork with sauce. It is almost more marinaded than covered, and the sauce is a very different, more savory sauce. This is probably my favorite roast pork dish. Receipt: Take colyaundre, caraway smale grounden, powdour of peprr and garlec ygrounde, in rede wyn; medle alle thise togyder and salt it. Take loynes of pork rawe and fle of the skyn, and pryk it wel with a knyf, and lay it in the saws. Roost it whan thou wilt, & kepe that that fallith therfro in the rostyng and seeth it in a possynet with faire broth, & serue it forth with the roost anoon. Take coriander, caraway ground small, pepper, and ground garlic, in red wine; mix all these together and salt it. Take raw loins of pork and flay off the skin, and prick it well with a knife, and lay it in the sauce. Roast it when you will, and keep what falls from it in the roasting and boil it in a small pot with fair broth, and serve it forth with the roast anon. Amounts as I make it: 3 lb bone-in pork loin roast 1 tsp salt 1 tsp ground coriander 1 clove garlic, minced fine 1/4 tsp caraway, ground 1/2 bottle red wine 1/2 tsp pepper 1 c chicken broth Step-by-step: 1. In a roasting pan, combine coriander, caraway, pepper, salt, garlic, and wine. 2. Prick skin of meat; add to roasting pan. 3. Preheat oven to 450˚. 4. Put in roast; reduce heat immediately to 350˚. 5. Roast the meat in the sauce for 30 to 35 minutes per pound. 6. Remove from oven, and take meat out of pan. 7. Add broth to sauce and drippings, and simmer briefly. 8. Slice roast and place in sauce. Notes: For some reason I cannot fathom, every time I've had this away from home, they've served the meat without the sauce. Error! Don't do this. The sauce is wonderful. Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 08:59:32 -0500 From: "Gedney, Jeff" Subject: RE: SC - for bread-smearing > Oh goody, the doctor just told my wife she is to eat at least a clove of > garlic each day, appropriately mixed into some other food. Since she > likes garlic anyway, this will be great. Last night I had a perennial favorite of the house: A pork roast, rolled in a dry marinade of spices, dry mustard, garlic, and salt, and cooked in a roasting pan filled with baby carrots, onion quarters, potatoes and whole, unpeeled cloves of garlic ( toss the veggies with olive oil and salt as there will not be enough fat from the pork for the veg). I used 2 whole heads of garlic, for the four of us, and the first thing finished were the roasted vegetables ( Actually the garlic - which had roasted in the pan and fried in the fat and oil, yielding a sweet and candy like brown confection, with a chewy taffy-like texture -- WOW. Next were the caramelized carrots, there is nothing I can say here... just DEVINE) I know the recipe is OOP, but... You know you are doing something right when your 5 year old and your 9 year old chant in unison "More Garlic!! More Garlic!! More Garlic!! More Garlic!!" Brandu Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 13:40:12 -0500 (EST) From: DianaFiona at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - for bread-smearing << You know you are doing something right when your 5 year old and your 9 year old chant in unison "More Garlic!! More Garlic!! More Garlic!! More Garlic!!" >> (Grin) Sounds like my own rallying cry............. My mom's take on pork roast is yummy also, even for me, and I'm not usually too much of a meat fan. Salt the roast, rub generously with rosemary, dot with garlic slices (*LOTS* of garlic slices......... ;-) ), and half cover with port wine. Roast, uncovering long enough for the meat to brown. Heavenly! Ldy Diana Subject: Re: Re: SC - pork in coriander sauce recipe Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 00:19:35 EDT From: Gerekr at aol.com To: stefan at texas.net from Pleyn Delit, 1st ed. ----- 75 Cormarye Take Colyandre, Caraway smalle gronden, Powdor of Peper and garlec ygronde in red wyne; medle alle [th]ise togyder and salt it; take loyn of Pork rawe and fle of the skyn, and pryk it wel with a knyf, and lay it in the sawse; roost [th]erof whay [th]u wilt, & kepe [th]at fallith [th]erfro in the rosting and see[th] it in a possynet with faire broth, & serve it forth with [th]e roost anoon. FC 53 Roast Pork with Caraway Sauce 5-7 lb pork loin roast 2-3 cloves garlic, crushed 1/2 to 1 tsp each coriander and caraway seed 1 cup red wine (or 1/2 cup, if using a clay baker) 1/2 tsp salt 1/4 tsp pepper Ideally, use a coffee grinder for grinding seeds. If you have none, use a mortar, a blender or a rolling pin, with the seeds between two sheets of waxed paper. When they are crushed, mix with all other sauce ingredients, preferably in a blender. The more finely the spices and garlic can be ground, the more effective the sauce will be. Prick the loin of pork all over and place in a rack over a roasting pan. Pour the sauce over it and roast in the usual way, basting with the juices in the pan from time to time plus, if it seems desirable, wine. (You may, of course, adapt this to clay=-baking procedures, if youhave a clay baker.) When roast is done, pour off the drippings into a saucepan and add a small amount of broth or stock (chicken stock, preferably - or broth made from pork bones). Stir and bring to a boil; thicken if you wish. Serve as a sauce for the pork. ---- This is really simple, really easy, really good. "Roast as usual"-- see Joy of Cooking or something to calculate how hot and how long... Chimene Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 00:41:19 -0230 From: Mark Simms Subject: Re: SC - Introducing myself to the list Phillppa, > Got a couple questions- what are- > 9. A bourbelier of pork, then Essentially a basted pork roast. I've seen two recipes for it, one from the Medieval Kitchen (page 108, recipe 52, from Le Viandier) and one in the Miscellany (http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/cariadoc/meat.html#6, from Le Menagier de Paris). I used a slightly modified redaction from the Miscellany. Due to that #$#% burning down of the original event hall I couldn't cook the roast there, but had to prepare it before hand at home, and then run across town and pick it up when it came time to serve it (I didn't put the roast up on a rack, and ended up with something very akin to a stewed meat - the end result was delicious, as the roast had been bubbling in wine for two days :) The only unfortunate part was the curse of Bappy being called down upon us, but we weathered that fairly well. Donal - -- Mark Simms Engineering Student, Class of 2002 Memorial University of Newfoundlan Vice President, 6th St. John's Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:33:18 -0800 From: Maggie MacDonald Subject: SC - Requested Recipes- Pork Roast/Warden Pie-LONG!! I mentioned some recipes we used at the Maison deSteele Thanksgiving, and got requests for the recipes, sources, etc. THL Gillian of Lynnhaven provided me with the all of those tonight. Let me see if I can get them to look as pretty here as she has on the paper that she gave me. Enjoy! ************************************************************* Pork Roast with Apricot & Prune Stuffing by THL Gillian of Lynnhaven "Allowes de Mutton: Take faire mutton of the Buttes, and kutte hit in the maner of stekes; And then take faire rawe parcelly, and oynons shred smale, yolkes of eron sodden hard, and mary or suet; hew all thes smale togidre, and then case thereto pouder of ginger, and saffron, and stere hem togidre with thi honde, and ley hem vppe- on the stekes al abrode; and cast there-to salt, and rolle hem togidre, and put hem on a spitte and roste hem until the be ynough." "Take a Thousand Eggs or More", vol. 1, Cindy Renfrow, p. 107 (from the Harleian Ms 4016) "A-nother manere: Take Fygys, Roysonys, and Porke, and a lytel brede y-ground y-fere; tak hym vppe, and purt Pepir y-now ther-to, and Maces, Clowys, and make thin in cofyn, and outte thin comade ther-on." "Take a Thousand Eggs or More", vol. 2, Cindy Renfrow, p. 215 (from the Harleian Ms 279) While not exact, the following recipe uses the same general idea of rolling a roast with fruit, spices and breadcrumbs. There are other examples using apricots and prunes instead of figs and raisins. 1 3 lb Pork Roast (loin or shoulder) 4 ft. Butchers string Stuffing: 1/4 cup Apricots, dried and diced 2 Tbs. Prunes, dried, pitted and diced 3 Tbs. Triple Sec (orange liqueur) 3 Tbs. Onions, chopped 1 cup herbed dry Stuffing (Pepperidge Farm) 1/4 cup Chicken Broth 3 Tbs. Butter, melted 2 tsp. Orange peel, freshly grated 1/2 tsp. Pouder Fort* In a large saucepan, combine apricots, prunes, orange peel and pouder fort with the Triple Sec. Heat to boiling, stirring frequently. Once boiling, remove from the heat and let it sit, covered, for a half an hour. Meanwhile, sauté the onion in one tablespoon of butter, until the onion is translucent. Transfer the onions to a large mixing bowl. Add in the fruit mixture and the dry stuffing crumbs. Mix thoroughly. Add the rest of the butter and the broth. Toss together until everything is moist. Take the pork roast and lay it out on a cutting board. Cut the roast open and lay it out flat in a long rectangle. Spoon the stuffing evenly over the roast, leaving about a half inch bare at the edges. Roll the roast up with the stuffing within and tie it closed with butchers string. Place the rolled roast in a pan and cover it. Roast in a 350 degree oven for about 30 minutes. Then uncover the roast and continue roasting it for another 30 minutes or until a meat thermometer registers 170 degrees. Serves 6 *Poudre fort is a medieval spice combination of pepper and sweet spices. To mix your own combine, 1/8 tsp. Black pepper, 1/4 tsp. Cinnamon, 1/8 tsp. Powered cloves, 1/8 tsp. Ginger, and 1/8 tsp. Mace. Adjust the amounts to taste. The flavor should be sweetly spicy but with a bite. *************************************************************************** Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 19:55:40 -0600 From: david friedman Subject: Re: SC - First Feast At 5:40 PM +1100 1/18/00, Ray Nevin wrote: >I'm after suggestions for a red meat dish from french sources >preferably (my copy of goodman of paris has some pages missing and I >don't have easy acces to other sources including web (because the >intenet hours get used up by my little brother). How about this one from Menagier de Paris? It should be wild boar, but is good with an ordinary pork roast. Bourbelier of Wild Pig Menagier p. M-23 First you must put it in boiling water, and take it out quickly and stick it with cloves; put it on to roast, and baste with a sauce made of spices, that is ginger, cinnamon, clove, grain, long pepper and nutmegs, mixed with verjuice, wine, and vinegar, and without boiling use it to baste; and when it is roasted, it should be boiled up together. And this sauce is called boar's tail, and you will find it later (and there it is thickened with bread: and here, not). [end of original] 3 lb pork roast 1/8 t cinnamon 1/2 t pepper (rounded) 1 c wine about 60 whole cloves 1/8 t cloves 1/8 t nutmeg 1/2 c vinegar 1/4 t ginger 1/4 t grains of paradise (verjuice) Preheat oven to 450 degrees. Stud roast with whole cloves, baste with a mixture of the remaining ingredients, then put into oven. Immediately after putting it in, turn oven down to 350. Roast meat 1 hour 45 minutes (for this size roast), basting every 15 minutes. Elizabeth of Dendermonde/Betty Cook Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 09:17:51 EST From: Bronwynmgn at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - Pork or Boar in the Holy Land dcushenan at bfree.on.ca writes: << I want to serve pork but am unable to find a source that is was available. I fond earlier references to it in the fourth century but not the twelfth can someone help. >> Well, it's not the Holy Land, but Alexander Neckam gives a recipe of sorts for pork in his 12th century travelogue of London and Paris. He says, "A roast of pork is prepared diligently on a grid, frequently basted, and laid on the grid just as the hot coals cease to smoke. Let condiment be avoided other than pure salt or a simple garlic sauce." (Daily Living in the Twelfth Century: Based on the Observations of Alexander Neckam in London and Paris, Urban Tigner Holmes, Jr., 1952). Brangwayna Morgan Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 04:46:57 +1000 From: Lorix Subject: SC - Long - Help with the sauce for Cormary recipe Good Fortune the List, last night I was testing a recipe i intend to use for a feast, ie Cormary - roast loin of Pork. I can hear some of you asking for the recipe already so: 'Take finely ground coriander and caraway, pepper powder and ground garlic, in red wine; mix all this together and salt it. Take raw pork loins, skin them and prick it well with a knife and lay it in the sauce. Roast it when you wish, and save what falls from the meat as it roasts and boil it in a pot with good broth, and then serve it with the roast' (Forme of Curye). Well, I basically read this as make a marinade of ground coriander & caraway seeds, crushed garlic, pepper & wine. Now, I wasn't sure whether 'pepper powder' had any particular significance: ie was this referring to white ground pepper for example (since other recipes I have seen specify black pepper). After pondering, I thru some black peppercorns in my mortar as well as some white pepper & then ground the caraway & coriander all together. Liking the faint sweet aftertaste that port gives to meet, I chose port as the red wine. So I mixed the spices & garlic together in that. I then read the recipe again & noticed that unlike a lot of recipes, this required the meat to be cooked in the wine. Now, in the respect of the feast I am cooking for, the site is only a few minutes from my home & my programmable fan-forced oven . . . I decided that I wanted the meat to cook in a manner that required minimal attention (as I wouldn't be there to baste), but would achieve reasonable results. So I chose to bake the roast in a baking bag. This kept much of the moisture in the bag, sort of self-basted & was fine to use it to marinade too. The results were _really_ tasty. The meat was cooked for a couple of hours on a slow heat (along with the crackling on a higher shelf ;-). The meat had a faint flavour of the marinade all the way thru, was very tender & had a texture similar to a smoked meat. My only problem was with the sauce. Now, because I was cooking in the bake bag, I did not lose any of the red wine. In fact, the meat juices drained out into the bag & so I had almost double the liquid I started with. This meant there was no reason to add the 'good broth' as specified in the recipe . But I felt I _did_ need to thicken the sauce since it was very liquidy I had managed to not 'lose' any of it in the cooking process. Now my question relates to how to improve this. Would I have been better to use fresh pieces of bread to thicken this up? Alternatively, soak the breadcrumbs in a little wine for awhile, prior to adding the sauce? The other option that I have, is not to add anything. Basically, just slice the meat, then tip the sauce over it & give it a chance to soak up a little of the sauce prior to serving. This will mean that the it will still be very liquidy (taste is fine) and i'll probably need to serve the meat in platters with lips to stop overflow, but is my preferred option. So has anyone any other options for another period way of thickening the sauce that will not alter the taste, or has anyone seen any other recipes for Cormary that thickens the sauce. The sauce itself is really very nice & the seasoning combination turns out very tasty. Thanks, Lorix Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 10:06:22 -0400 From: Elaine Koogler Subject: Re: SC - Long - Help with the sauce for Cormary recipe Lorix wrote: > So has anyone any other options for another period way of thickening > the sauce that will not alter the taste, or has anyone seen any other > recipes for Cormary that thickens the sauce. The sauce itself is > really very nice & the seasoning combination turns out very tasty. Lorix, I made Cormarye for our Coronation Feast last fall. The redaction I did is as follows: 1 heaping tsp. ground caraway seed 1 Tbsp. minced garlic 1 heaping tsp. Coriander 1 tsp salt 1/2 tsp. Pepper 1 Cup red wine (I used Burgundy) 1 1/2 # Pork roast Use 1/3 to half the sauce as a marinade, and marinate the roast for several hours, then cook at 325-350 degrees until done (1 hour or so). Use the pan juices with the remaining marinade mixture to make a sauce, reducing it to half its volume. Serve the roast sliced with the sauce over it. Notes: 1. The only modification I have made to this recipe is that I have marinated the pork overnight in the wine/seasoning mixture. Pan juices were added to more of the marinade to make the sauce. In the interest of serving safe food, we used fresh marinade for this purpose. I didn't try to thicken it with anything. Rather, I reduced the juices + marinade and reduced them by half. This created a very nice, flavorful sauce. I believe that some of the recipes I've seen that used bread crumbs also suggested straining the finished product to get out things like lumps....you could have tried something like that, I guess. Kiri Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 23:59:59 -0500 From: Stefan li Rous Subject: SC - Long - Help with the sauce for Cormary recipe Lorix posted a recipe for roasted pork: > 'Take finely ground coriander and caraway, pepper powder and ground > garlic, in red wine; mix all this together and salt it. Take raw pork > loins, skin them and prick it well with a knife and lay it in the > sauce. Roast it when you wish, and save what falls from the meat as > it roasts and boil it in a pot with good broth, and then serve it with > the roast' (Forme of Curye). > Liking the faint sweet aftertaste that port gives to meet, I chose > port as the red wine. So I mixed the spices & garlic together in > that. Why port? I thought port was a fortified wine? This I think would give a stronger taste than simply a red wine. Although if the sauce is thinner than wanted and you need to add thickener, a stronger tasting wine might be preferable. > I then read the recipe again & noticed that unlike a lot of recipes, > this required the meat to be cooked in the wine. But does it? It says lay it in the sauce. It doesn't specifically say to roast it in the sauce, does it? Couldn't "lay it in the sauce" simply be to marinate it? And then it is removed and put on a spit to roast. Would they have used the word roast to mean stew it or boil it in the sauce? If you are cooking the meat in the sauce, why say "and save what falls from the meat as it roasts and boil it...". The stuff that falls from the meat would already fall in the sauce and it would be difficult to prevent it from doing so anyway. I think this is saying take care to catch the drippings in a pan, so you can add them to the broth to make the sauce later. > The results were _really_ tasty. The meat was cooked for a couple of > hours on a slow heat (along with the crackling on a higher shelf ;-). > The meat had a faint flavour of the marinade all the way thru, was > very tender & had a texture similar to a smoked meat. Yes, it sounds wonderful. > Now my question relates to how to improve this. Would I have been > better to use fresh pieces of bread to thicken this up? > Alternatively, soak the breadcrumbs in a little wine for awhile, prior > to adding the sauce? I think another alternative would be to boil down the juice/drippings/ wine mixture until it thickens some. Without adding anything. In your case, this may not be practical because of time contraints, though. Stefan - -- Lord Stefan li Rous Barony of Bryn Gwlad Kingdom of Ansteorra Mark S. Harris Austin, Texas stefan at texas.net Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 11:10:36 -0400 From: Philip & Susan Troy Subject: Re: SC - Long - Help with the sauce for Cormary recipe Lorix wrote: > 'Take finely ground coriander and caraway, pepper powder and ground > garlic, in red wine; mix all this together and salt it. Take raw pork > loins, skin them and prick it well with a knife and lay it in the > sauce. Roast it when you wish, and save what falls from the meat as > it roasts and boil it in a pot with good broth, and then serve it with > the roast' (Forme of Curye). > > Well, I basically read this as make a marinade of ground coriander & > caraway seeds, crushed garlic, pepper & wine. Now, I wasn't sure > whether 'pepper powder' had any particular significance: ie was this > referring to white ground pepper for example (since other recipes I > have seen specify black pepper). After pondering, I thru some black > peppercorns in my mortar as well as some white pepper & then ground > the caraway & coriander all together. I think the earliest English reference I've seen to white pepper is 17th century; unless I'm mistaken, most of the references to [specifically] black pepper that I've seen have been to distinguish between it and long pepper, and that, usually in English translation. Usually, IIRC, it's just "pepper" or "pouder of pepper". > I then read the recipe again & noticed that unlike a lot of recipes, > this required the meat to be cooked in the wine. Now, in the respect > of the feast I am cooking for, the site is only a few minutes from my > home & my programmable fan-forced oven . . . I decided that I wanted > the meat to cook in a manner that required minimal attention (as I > wouldn't be there to baste), but would achieve reasonable results. So > I chose to bake the roast in a baking bag. This kept much of the > moisture in the bag, sort of self-basted & was fine to use it to > marinade too. I wonder about the interpretation to cook it in the wine. I always interpreted the instructions to mean that you marinate the meat, then roast it on a spit in front of a fire, over a drip pan, so you can save that which droppeth ; ). You then reduce the pan drippings with additional broth as needed until you get a flavorful, but not excessively spicy, pan liquor. Does meat brown in a baking bag, and doesn't the baking bag defeat the purpose, to some extent, of your nifty convection oven? I'm not sure how necessary it is to worry about basting; unless pork loin is a different cut of meat in different locations, the basic primary cut has a layer of fairly firm fat on the back, and if you roast it fat side up, and don't overcook it, it shouldn't require any basting, except perhaps with the marinade for additional flavor as it roasts. I ask about whether the designation "loin" is different where you are because in the US, pork loins also tend to have a moderate amount of fat on the back, but no skin. By any chance did you use what we call fresh ham, or was this a leaner hog with the skin still on it? > The results were _really_ tasty. The meat was cooked for a couple of > hours on a slow heat (along with the crackling on a higher shelf ;-). > The meat had a faint flavour of the marinade all the way thru, was > very tender & had a texture similar to a smoked meat. Yum. I've always loved cormarye... > My only problem was with the sauce. Now, because I was cooking in the > bake bag, I did not lose any of the red wine. Infact, the meat juices > drained out into the bag & so I had almost double the liquid I started > with. This meant there was no reason to add the 'good broth' as > specified in the recipe . > But I felt I _did_ need to thicken the sauce since it was very liquidy > I had managed to not 'lose' any of it in the cooking process. Now, I > chose to use dried breadcrumbs, but I did not have enough time to > really cook them into the sauce as it needs to do to dissolve & be > less lumpy. I used breadcrumbs as I felt they would not change the > taste of the sauce in any way, but _would_ thicken it (seeing as how > there is no provision for thickening in the recipe. Thicken it they > did quite satisfactorily. However _I_ felt that the appearance & > texture of the resulting sauce was too lumpy (faint sort of sandy > texture), although very tasty (my guinea pigs said I was being to > sensitive). Now, as I was trying to imitate the time I would have > available at the feast, I cooked the sauce as much as I would be able > to at the feast, which means I won't have time to break the > breadcrumbs down. I suspect, given the flavors and colors involved, that your best bet might be dry, toasted brown bread, if you're going that route. Not toasted bread crumbs, but rather bread grilled fairly slowly until dry throughout, and browned but not burned, similar to some of the croutons used in things like French Onion Soup, or eaten with bouilliabaise. However, I'm picturing the sauce made by roasting the meat on a spit, with the marinade (and accompanying solids, crushed garlic and spices, etc.) and don't see this producing an unattractively thin sauce. The drippings, being a boiled semi-emulsion of fat, garlic, ground spices, and what the English used to call "gravy", i.e. "jus", further reduced with added stock, itself containing at least some gelatin, ought to be pretty syrupy in consistency when done, even without bread crumbs. And if you're worried about a sandy texture, well, I'm not sure that's avoidable, given the ground spices and crushed garlic, unless you strain it all out, which would be a shame. > Now my question relates to how to improve this. Would I have been > better to use fresh pieces of bread to thicken this up? > Alternatively, soak the breadcrumbs in a little wine for awhile, prior > to adding the sauce? > > The other option that I have, is not to add anything. Basically, just > slice the meat, then tip the sauce over it & give it a chance to soak > up a little of the sauce prior to serving. This will mean that the it > will still be very liquidy (taste is fine) and i'll probably need to > serve the meat in platters with lips to stop overflow, but is my > preferred option. I agree. As I say, the sauce should probably be a slightly syrupy gravy, thickened with the ground spices and garlic. You might also add just enough to moisten the meat, then pass additional sauce in a sauceboat of some kind. This dish may well have been eaten on trenchers anyway, with the uppermost layers of the gravy-soaked trencher spooned up with the meat, "accidentally". Nothing so gross as actually eating the trencher, of course ; ) . > So has anyone any other options for another period way of thickening > the sauce that will not alter the taste, or has anyone seen any other > recipes for Cormary that thickens the sauce. The sauce itself is > really very nice & the seasoning combination turns out very tasty. Just out of curiosity, how much garlic did you use? If you use enough to turn the marinade into a thin puree, the amount that sticks to the meat when roasting, and falls off in the cooking, should cook down into a slightly thickened sauce. I've had stews thickened with nothing but pureed garlic, which, when cooked enough, is mild and sublimely rich. Adamantius From: "Siegfried Heydrich" To: Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] RE: Home from Pennsic also + upcoming feast stuff Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 08:00:47 -0400 Well, I generally recommend soaking wild hog in a mild salt / vinegar solution overnight to get some of the gaminess out, hit it with some dry rub, and smoke it long & slow. If it's store bought, don't bother with the soaking, though . . . it's bland enough as is. If you know anyone who does custom carpentry, snag some hardwood trimmings (walnut, cherry, etc) instead of the usual hickory or mesquite chips, and soak 'em overnight. I just did a brisket, a pork butt, and a turkey breast in my smoker the other day with cherrywood, and it turned out really well. Green applewood is great, too. BTW, I've found that for smoking meat, chunk charcoal (rather than briquettes) gives a MUCH better flavor. It burns a bit hotter, so you don't add as much to start, and you have to add chunks more often, but the results are markedly superior. Sieggy Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 11:19:46 -0400 From: Elaine Koogler To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Cormarye Recipe... OK....here 'tis: 54. Cormarye. Take colyaundre, caraway smale grounden, poudour of peper and garlec ygrounde, in rede wyne;medle all thise togyder and salt it. Take loynes of pork rawe and fle of the skyn, and pryk it well with a knyf, and lay it in the sawse. Roost it whan thou wilt, and kepe that that fallity therefro in the rostyng and seeth it in a possynet with faire broth, and serue it forthe with the roost anoon. 54. Cormarye (Roast Pork in a Wine Sauce). Take coriander, ground caraway seed, pepper and ground garlic, in red wine; mix all these together and salt it. Take loins of raw pork and cut off the skin and prick it well with a knife, and put it in the sauce. Roast it when you will, and do it properly and boil it [the juices/sauce] in a small pot with a good broth and serve it forth with the roast. (Forme of Cury from Curye on Inglysch) 1 heaping tsp. ground caraway seed 1 Tbsp. minced garlic 1 heaping tsp. Coriander 1 tsp salt 1/2 tsp. Pepper 1 Cup red wine (I used Burgundy) 1 1/2 lb. Pork roast Use 1/3 to half the sauce as a marinade, and marinate the roast for several hours, then cook at 325-350 degrees until done (1 hour or so). Use the pan juices with the remaining marinade mixture to make a sauce, reducing it to half its volume. Serve the roast sliced with the sauce over it. Notes: 1. The only modification I have made to this recipe is that I have marinated the pork overnight in the wine/seasoning mixture. Pan juices were added to more of the marinade to make the sauce. In the interest of serving safe food, we used fresh marinade for this purpose. Hope this helps. Let me know if you have any questions! Kiri Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 18:21:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Pat Subject: [Sca-cooks] Pork Ribs To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org I'm kinda partial to basting them liberally while roasting with Cormarye sauce: Curye on Inglysch p. 109 (Forme of Cury no. 54) Take colyaundre, caraway smale grounden, powdour of peper and garlec ygrounde, in rede wyne; medle alle + ise togyder and salt it. Take loynes of pork rawe and fle of the skyn, and pryk it wel with a knyf, and lay it in the sawse. Roost it whan + ou wilt, & kepe + at fallith + erfro in the rostyng and see+ it in a possynet with faire broth, and serue it forth wi+ + e roost anoon. My translation: Take coriander, caraway ground small, powder of pepper and ground garlic in red wine. Mix all this together and salt it. Take raw loins of pork and remove the skin, and prick it well with a knife and lay it in the sauce. Roast it when thou wilt, and save the drippings. Boil the drippings in a pan with good broth and serve it with the roast. My recipe: 1 TBS whole coriander seed 1 TBS whole caraway seed 1 TBS minced garlic 1 tsp. Ground black pepper 1 tsp. Salt 2 cups sweet red wine Marinate pork in sauce several hours, or overnight, then baste frequently while roasting. Save the drippings to mix with 2 cups of chicken broth. Boil until reduced by half, and serve with the pork. Pat Griffin Lady Anne du Bosc known as Mordonna the Cook www.mordonnasplace.com Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 18:54:12 -0400 From: Johnna Holloway Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Pennsic Potluck, revisited To: Cooks within the SCA phlip at 99main.com writes: > Now, shall we tell each other what we brought to the Potluck? I think > the folks at home might enjoy the dishes- I certainly did ;-) I brought over a boneless pork roast that had been marinated in bitter orange juice and then dredged in a mix of bread crumbs, flour, nutmeg, ginger, pepper, and sugar. Roasted several hours at 225 until done. Then I froze it fo safe keeping and transported it frozen to the War. Phlip warmed it up over her fire that evening. The recipe is from Robert May's The Accomplisht Cook, Section iv, [page 136 in the Prospect Books facsimile edition] titled: "The rarest ways of dressing of all manner of Roast Meats..." Divers ways of breading or dredging of Meats and Fowl, 6. For pigs, grated bread, flour, nutmeg, ginger, peper, sugar; but first baste it with the jucye of lemons , or oranges, and the yolks of eggs. I skipped the eggs, since I was marinating for three days in advance of roasting. Johnnae llyn Lewis Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 08:51:33 -0400 From: "Saint Phlip" Subject: [Sca-cooks] Bourbelier of Wild Pig To: "Cooks within the SCA" The recipe is From Cariadoc's Mescellany): Bourbelier of Wild Pig Menagier p. M-23 First you must put it in boiling water, and take it out quickly and stick it with cloves; put it on to roast, and baste with a sauce made of spices, that is ginger, cinnamon, clove, grain, long pepper and nutmegs, mixed with verjuice, wine, and vinegar, and without boiling use it to baste; and when it is roasted, it should be boiled up together. And this sauce is called boar's tail, and you will find it later (and there it is thickened with bread: and here, not). 3 lb pork roast about 60 whole cloves 1/4 t ginger 1/8 t cinnamon 1/8 t cloves 1/4 t grains of paradise 1/2 t pepper (rounded) 1/8 t nutmeg (verjuice) 1 c wine 1/2 c vinegar Preheat oven to 450deg. . Stud roast with whole cloves, baste with a mixture of the remaining ingredients, then put into oven. Immediately after putting it in, turn oven down to 350deg. . Roast meat 1 hour 45 minutes (for this size roast), basting every 15 minutes. However, while I noted that the translation of the original says "Long pepper", the redaction says "Grains of Paradise". I'm assuming either will work, and that likely the redaction reflected what was in Cariadoc's and Elizabeth's cupboard at the time (been there, done that ;-) Anybody think there'll be a qualitative difference? And, wondering if this particular mix might be usable as a powdre forte. Anybody? Planning on this for dinner tomorrow night... -- Saint Phlip Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 09:25:19 -0400 From: "grizly" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Bourbelier of Wild Pig To: "Cooks within the SCA" -----Original Message----- Yummmm.... I wonder about the initial plunge into boiling water, though. What would be the possible reasons for that? A brief sort of par-boiling for a chunk o' pig with a fatty coating? Some other reason, more specific to it being from wild boar? --Maire, curious....< < < < < SPECULATION: sanitizes the outside of the flesh after butchering . . . removes the bits and parts left on it. Plus, it tightens the skin and flesh to hold onto the cloves when they are stuck in. niccolo difrancesco Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 09:25:19 -0400 From: "grizly" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Bourbelier of Wild Pig To: "Cooks within the SCA" -----Original Message----- The recipe is From Cariadoc;s Mescellany): Bourbelier of Wild Pig Menagier p. M-23 First you must put it in boiling water, and take it out quickly and stick it with cloves; put it on to roast, and baste with a sauce made of spices, that is ginger, cinnamon, clove, grain, long pepper and nutmegs, mixed with verjuice, wine, and vinegar, and without boiling use it to baste; and when it is roasted, it should be boiled up together. And this sauce is called boar's tail, and you will find it later (and there it is thickened with bread: and here, not). <<>> However, while I noted that the translation of the original says "Long pepper", the redaction says "Grains of Paradise". I'm assuming either will work, and that likely the redaction reflected what was in Cariadoc's and Elizabeth's cupboard at the time (been there, done that ;-) Anybody think there'll be a qualitative difference? And, wondering if this particular mix might be usable as a powdre forte. Anybody? < < < < < < The "grain" in the original is very likely grains of paradise, and Cariadoc ommitted long pepper from redaction due to relative scarcity at time of recipe development. They are much more available these days. The pungent aromatic and flavor elements of long pepper will definitely add another dimension to your baste. When boiled for the sauce, you would get a bit more heat from the long pepper, I would expect. As for powder forte, for this collection of spices, I personally would make sure to get the long pepper and try it out. It has lots of elements that I've seen in others' blends. Mace is the only one not in this that others seem to add in some amount about like their cloves. niccolo difrancesco Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 09:26:33 -0400 From: "Saint Phlip" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Bourbelier of Wild Pig To: "Cooks within the SCA" On 9/15/06, Sue Clemenger wrote: > I wonder about the initial plunge into boiling water, though. What would be > the possible reasons for that? A brief sort of par-boiling for a chunk o' > pig with a fatty coating? Some other reason, more specific to it > being from wild boar? > --Maire, curious.... Well, first off, if the translation's correct, it's Wild Pig, not Wild Boar. There's a significant different between the flesh of the female and of the (uncut) male of any species, intact males having stronger flavors (hormones) and tougher connective tissue- that's just the effects of testosterone. As far as the plunge into the hot water initially, I'm wondering two things- first, if it's intended as a mild reduction of its hot and dry nature, if indeed wild pig was perceived to have those characteristics (can anybody tell me how pigs rate on the humoral scale?) Secondly, I'm wondering if the hot water plunge might be intended to solidify the surface of the roast, to make it easier to work with, insofar as poking it full of cloves- a technique rather akin to freezing meat, as we moderns do, so that we might slice it thinner. -- Saint Phlip Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 09:30:57 -0400 From: Elaine Koogler Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Bourbelier of Wild Pig To: grizly at mindspring.com, Cooks within the SCA grizly wrote: > SPECULATION: sanitizes the outside of the flesh after butchering . . . > removes the bits and parts left on it. Plus, it tightens the skin > and flesh to hold onto the cloves when they are stuck in. > > niccolo difrancesco It does definitely remove the bits and parts...particularly bristles! I recall my grandparents doing that when they butchered a pig...before doing much of anything with it, they did this to remove the bristles. Kiri Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 09:57:20 -0400 From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Bourbelier of Wild Pig To: Cooks within the SCA On Sep 15, 2006, at 9:26 AM, Saint Phlip wrote: > As far as the plunge into the hot water initially, I'm wondering two > things- first, if it's intended as a mild reduction of its hot and dry > nature, if indeed wild pig was perceived to have those characteristics > (can anybody tell me how pigs rate on the humoral scale?) Abdul-Hassim seems to feel pork is warm and humid in the first degree, so one could probably make a case for the blanching, roasting, and final boil as coming under the heading of "neutralization of the dangers". However, The Physician makes no specific mention of wild pigs versus domestic, AFAIK, apart from a lovely boar illustration in the section on acorns. > Secondly, > I'm wondering if the hot water plunge might be intended to solidify > the surface of the roast, to make it easier to work with, insofar as > poking it full of cloves- a technique rather akin to freezing meat, as > we moderns do, so that we might slice it thinner. > > Adamantius? Any thoughts? It's certainly possible. It's hard to say why this seems to be so common a step in preparation for meats to be roasted, but it does appear to tighten the skin and make it more receptive to seasonings, make the meat more attractive when roasted, maybe soften the surface of a fatty cut for studding with cloves or larding (if it was previously cold, especially), and probably also stiffen it up for mounting on a spit. I'm curious as to what makes a bourbelier a bourbelier; some sources seem to suggest we're talking about the tail of the critter, but then Robert's Beard sauce (a.k.a. Taillemaslee or Sauce Robert) contains no finely chopped beard, either. Adamantius Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 11:41:06 -0400 From: Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Bourbelier of Wild Pig To: Cooks within the SCA > As far as the plunge into the hot water initially, I'm wondering two > things- first, if it's intended as a mild reduction of its hot and dry > nature, if indeed wild pig was perceived to have those characteristics > (can anybody tell me how pigs rate on the humoral scale?) Pigs are generally pretty neutral, being the closest to human beings. Secondly, > I'm wondering if the hot water plunge might be intended to solidify > the surface of the roast, to make it easier to work with, insofar as > poking it full of cloves- a technique rather akin to freezing meat, as > we moderns do, so that we might slice it thinner. At another point in the manuscript, Hinson's translation reads: "The 'bourbelier' is the numble. (Inasmuch as in this area, one says numbles on the one hand, and bourbelier on the other.)" Now, checking the OED, we see 2 joined definitions for numble: The entrails of an animal, esp. a deer, as used for food. Formerly also: part of the back and loins of a hart. Also fig. The previous sentence in the Hinson translation says: "In September they begin to hunt the black beasts until Saint Martin's day in winter. - Item, all four limbs are called hams, as with a pig. Item, of a wild boar the head, the flanks, the backbone, the numbles, the four hams; that is all. Item, of the innards none are retained except the liver, which seems to be suitable for making a Subtle English Broth." -- -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne at fiedlerfamily.net Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 13:25:05 -0400 From: "Stephanie Ross" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Bourbelier of Wild Pig To: "SCA-Cooks" It seems to me that parboiling all meat, esp fresh, is just the author's way of handling meat. All his recipes pertaining to meat start off with parboiling, then larding. He uses this process on boar, hares, deer, wild goat, rabbits, and the "dainties" but not birds. I am of the opinion it is done to take out some of the gameiness of the wild-caught meat. He even states in a round-about way that it is to make the meat a bit more tender - DEER VENISON. As this meat is tougher than fawn or goat, it must be parboiled and larded all along it: . Also, WILD DOE: let it be flayed, then boiled in boiling water and removed quickly, as it is more tender than the deer. It seems to me it is parboiled to make it more tender also. ~Aislinn~ Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 21:10:45 -0400 From: Patrick Levesque Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Bourbelier of Wild Pig To: "Cooks within the SCA " I'm almost tempted to drive across the whole kingdom now :-)) (Just Kidding, we have an event here tomorrow anyway - no feast, yes!, means I can fight!) Anyway, I'm a lazy bum and I don't feel like walking upstairs to check the Viandier's version, but here's what in the Menagier from Cindy Renfrow's online version: BOURBELIER DE SANGLIER. Primo le convient mettre en eaue boulant, et bien tost retraire et boutonner de giroffle; mettre rostir, et baciner de sausse faicte d'espices, c'est assavoir gingembre, canelle , giroffle, graine, poivre long et noix muguettes, destremp? de vertjus, vin et vinaigre, et sans boulir l'en baciner; et quant il sera rosti, si boulez tout ensemble. Et ceste sausse est appell?e queue de sanglier , et la trouverez cyapr?s (et l? il la fait liant de pain: et cy, non). The Miscellany's translation is pretty adequate. I'm wondering, though, since in a footnote there is a musing about the meaning of "queue de sanglier" whether you do find an accumulation of fat in boar's tail (similar to mutton tail fat and its use in ME cuisine)?... And what the heck, I'll go get the Viandier, just a minute... Ok, the 4 various manuscripts compared by Scully rather agree with the Menagier, with the difference that after the pork is roasted and basted, it is cut in smaller sections to be boiled in the sauce. Numbles, by the way, is Nomblet. Couldn't find it in a dictionary. Did find this definition of Bourbelier in a period dictionary: Une viande ? fort friande que les anciens faisoyent des tetines d'une truye apres qu'elle avoit cochonn?. A tasty dish that the Ancients made with the udders of a sow after she had born piglets. Good luck with this one!!! Petru Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2006 08:28:15 -0500 From: "Pat Griffin" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Bourbelier of Wild Pig To: "'Cooks within the SCA'" BOURBELIER DE SANGLIER.7 Primo le convient mettre en eaue boulant, et bien tost retraire et boutonner de giroffle; mettre rostir, et baciner8 de sausse faicte d'espices, c'est assavoir gingembre, canelle , giroffle, graine, poivre long et noix muguettes, destremp? de vertjus, vin et vinaigre, et sans boulir l'en baciner; et quant il sera rosti, si boulez tout ensemble. Et ceste sausse est appell?e queue de sanglier , 9et la trouverez cyapr?s (et l? il la fait liant de pain: et cy, non). -----Original Message----- Can anybody shoot me the original recipe in French (or whatever language)? Might clarify a couple things. -- Saint Phlip Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2006 23:17:34 -0400 From: "Saint Phlip" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Bourbelier of Wild Pig To: "Cooks within the SCA" Thanks for the copies of the original y'all sent me ;-) We tried the recipe tonight, and it was quite good. Couldn't find my Medieval spices, and we were out of verjuice, so I added extra pepper, and subbed apple cider and lemon juice for the verjuice. Did drop it in boiling water as recommended- left it in long enough for it to come back to a boil and removed it. As it was, the roast was a wonderful crispy brown on the outside, with absolutely delectable and tender meat on the inside. Having tried it this way, Margali has promised me some verjuice next time she gets over to the ME store we get it at, and by then I'll have found my spices, and we'll try it again. Side dish, btw, was something M calls "Heaven and Earth", which is red cabbage cooked to just tender with apples. Good munchies ;-) -- Saint Phlip Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 16:22:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Marcus Loidolt Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Sca-cooks Digest, Vol 5, Issue 67/ Himmel und Erde To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org Benedicte alles, Himmel und Erde as I know it....from a pre publication manuscript of a friend of mine from monastery days...'Gottes Lieb fur Mann' God' s love for man, a thousand years of monastic cooking, from Einsedeln. Einsedeln is a Swiss Benedictine monastery founded in the year 935. www.kloster-einsiedeln.sh/ Himmel und Erde is Cabbage, Apples and Onions fried/sauteed' in butter with salt and pepper. Often served with goose or pork, but also with other meats and on fast days without butter and just using olive oil. I remember it being served even over here in American monasteries who trace their descent from Eisiedeln and Bavarian/Austrian communities. Johann von Metten 10. Re: Himmel und Erde (was Re: Bourbelier of Wild Pig) (Saint Phlip) Edited by Mark S. 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