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pickled-meats-msg - 3/20/08

 

Period pickled meats. recipes.

 

NOTE: See also the files: campfood-msg, food-storage-msg, canning-msg, drying-foods-msg, meat-smoked-msg, stockfish-msg, vinegar-msg, eggs-msg, pickled-foods-msg, compost-msg.

 

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NOTICE -

 

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

 

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

 

I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.

 

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.

 

Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

 

Thank you,

    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous

                                          Stefan at florilegium.org

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From: ddfr at best.com (David Friedman)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Doing Pennsic without ice

Date: 1 Sep 1995 16:34:20 GMT

 

"The lords salt" (in the Miscellany) is a period recipe for pickling meat;

we have used it repeatedly at Pennsic. The only problem is that the meat

is sour and spiced, which one deals with, if one wants to, partly by

washing it before use and partly by using it in dishes that are supposed

to have vinegar in them and leaving out the vinegar.

 

<snip>

 

David/Cariadoc

 

 

Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 08:49:04 -0400 (EDT)

To: markh at risc.sps.mot.com (Mark S. Harris)

From: "L. HERR-GELATT" <liontamr at postoffice.ptd.net>

Subject: Re: Preserving meat

 

Aoife <liontamr at postoffice.ptd.net> wrote:

>> >Book I, Recipe 11

>> >To keep cooked sides of pork or beef or tenderloins

>> >{Callum porcinum vel bubulum et unguellae coct ae diu durent}

>>

>> >Place them in a pickle of mustard, vinegar, salt and honey, covering the

>> >meat entirely, and when ready to use, you'll be surprised.

>

>This sounds interesting. I don't like pickles but I might like this.

>Do you have a redaction that you have worked out? How much of each of

>these did you use? What kind of vinegar? And I'm not much of a cook

>even in a modern kitchen, what exactly is braised beef? Do you mean

>meat that is already cooked? Or a particular cut of meat?

>

>  Stefan li Rous

>  markh at risc.sps.mot.com

 

Basically, I eye-balled the recipe (well, I tasted it, too). The approximate

proportions were thus:

 

One three-pound chuck-roast, browned in 1 tbsp olive oil, then braised in

about 1 cup of water for 1 hour. Pour off the juices and let the roast cool.

Place in a container that will just fit, and has an air-tight cover. Pour

over about 2 cups vinegar (I used my own italian herb-white, but cider

vinegar would also do, and plain white, and even wine-vinegar). Add 1 tbsp

salt (Kosher is best--or preserving salt but table salt will also do),

three tbsp prepared grainy brown (spicy) mustard or about 3 tbsp cracked

mustard seeds, and approx 1/2 cup honey or to taste. You're going for the

sweet-tart ratio here.   This can sit on the counter, if the counter is in a

reasonably cool place, that is. Our ancestors would have kept the vat n the

cellar away from fireplaces and lights. Due to the pickle and the cooked

meat it should keep for quite a while, but you must check it often, and

re-boil the pickle whenever necessary, adding extra vinegar after the boil.

Refrigeration is also a good way to keep it. Either way, the longer you keep

it, the better it gets. This would make an excellent marinade for raw meat, too.

 

Aoife

 

Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 21:38:27 EDT

From: LrdRas at aol.com

Subject: SC - Meat and Lord's Salt

 

In a message dated 6/26/98 8:02:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ddfr at best.com

writes:

<< Meat pickled with the Lord's Salt is good, but it lends a strong and

distinctive taste to whatever you make with it.  By the end of the week,

unless you and yours are very fond of vinegar, you are going to be sick and

tired of that taste. >>

 

I was thinking about the pickled meat as described above.

 

Could not a plausible period use of this "preserved" meat entail rinsing the

meat or perhaps even parboil it? :-) You would then cover the meat  with water

(or broth), add an onion or so, some pepper, a pinch of cloves and cinnamon,

maybe a little galingal and crushed cubebs and then simmer this until the meat

is ltterally falling apart and the broth is considerably reduced. Perhaps a

dish of fruimenty (or rice) on the side? Or spoon it over some sops?

 

This method of preparation would almost negate the vinegar taste. Any residual

flavor would nicely blend in with the rest of the sauce by becoming a

flavoring  "ingredient"  which would fine tune the dish. Serve it with the

slightest hint of freshly ground "true cinnamon" and the tiniest sprinkle of

sugar. The last of this years apples slowly roasted on the hearth and boiled

carrots. Top it off with a nice goblet of sweet spiced wine diluted with some

cold spring water or a draft of cool ale brought directly from the cellars?

 

Such are the things of feasts!

 

Ras (Who just finished one feast! <sigh> I'll never learn.  :-)

 

 

Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 13:00:37 -0700

From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Meat and Lord's Salt

 

I wrote:

><< Meat pickled with the Lord's Salt is good, but it lends a strong and

> distinctive taste to whatever you make with it.  By the end of the week,

> unless you and yours are very fond of vinegar, you are going to be sick and

> tired of that taste. >>

 

and Ras writes:

 

>Could not a plausible period use of this "preserved" meat entail rinsing the

>meat or perhaps even parboil it? :-) You would then cover the meat  with water

>(or broth), add an onion or so, some pepper, a pinch of cloves and cinnamon,

>maybe a little galingal and crushed cubebs and then simmer this until the meat

>is ltterally falling apart and the broth is considerably reduced. Perhaps a

>dish of fruimenty (or rice) on the side? Or spoon it over some sops?

>

>This method of preparation would almost negate the vinegar taste. Any residual

>flavor would nicely blend in with the rest of the sauce by becoming a

>flavoring  "ingredient"  which would fine tune the dish. Serve it with the

>slightest hint of freshly ground "true cinnamon" and the tiniest sprinkle of

>sugar. The last of this years apples slowly roasted on the hearth and boiled

>carrots. Top it off with a nice goblet of sweet spiced wine diluted with some

>cold spring water or a draft of cool ale brought directly from the cellars?

 

Consider the following recipe from Two Fifteenth Century Cookery Books:

 

Conyng, Hen, or Mallard.  Take conyng, hen or mallard, and roast him almost

enough; or else chop him, and fry him in fresh grease; and fry onions

minced, and cast altogether into a pot, and cast thereto fresh broth and

half wine; cast thereto cloves, maces, powder of pepper, canel; then stepe

fair bread with the same broth and draw it through a strainer with vinegre.

And when it hath well boiled, cast the liquor thereto, and powder ginger,

and vinegre, and season it up, and then thou shall serve it forth.

(spelling modernized)

 

We have done this at Pennsic with pickled meat, rinsing and soaking the

meat, leaving the vinegar out and reducing the spicing from what we would

use with fresh meat.  It works fine.  But you do still have the

vinegar-and-spices flavor; and the original poster was proposing to eat

dishes made with pickled meat something like 6 nights out of 10.  I still

think he would get tired of it.

 

Elizabeth/Betty Cook

 

 

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 10:31:56 -0500

From: Melanie Wilson <MelanieWilson at compuserve.com>

To: LIST SCA arts <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>

Subject: Pickled fish

 

This variation is similar to Gravlaks ie buried or grave salmon. there is a

record of its use in a ms of 1348, and is probably older still.

 

Fish sandwiched between 2 layers of birch bark and fir branches is weighed

down with stones and buried in the soft sandy shoreline. eat after 4-6 days

or leave to ferment for 6-12 weeks.

 

Here is a modern pickeling recipe for 6-7 lbs fish

 

1tbsp brandy, 3/4 oz sugar. 1.5oz crystilized(not dehydrated)salt, pepper,

dill

 

Gut, sprinkle with brandy, mix salt, sugar & pepper, scatter over, chop

dill, spread over first fillet and sandwich the two together, cover with

foil,weigh the top leave in cool place 37 F (3-4 c for civilized folk :)),

turn twice a day, pour the pressed out liquid back between the fillets,

remove weights after 2 days. Ready to eat in 3-4 days.

 

Tip: freeze fish first to kill any fishy parasites

 

Mel

 

 

Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 12:32:27 -0800

From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Lord's Salt--no salt?

 

At 9:39 PM -0500 1/29/99, Bonne wrote:

>All the talk of preserving beef by "corning" it got me to thinking that's what

>the recipe for Lord's Salt was, wasn't it?  But no, that's cooked meat placed

>in spiced vinegar to preserve it.  There's not a bit of salt in it. Cariadoc,

> why then is it called Lord's SALT?

 

One shall take cloves and mace, cardamom, pepper, cinnamon, ginger an equal

weight of each except cinnamon, of which there shall be just as much as of

all the others, and as much baked bread as all that has been said above.

And he shall cut it all together and grind it in strong vinegar; and put it

in a cask. That is their salt and it is good for half a year.

 

The obvious explanation is either that it is called a "salt" because, like

salt, it is being used to preserve meat, or that there is a mistranslation

from the latin. I have a vague memory of an etymological link between sauce

and salt, with salsa as evidence.

 

David/Cariadoc

http://www.best.com/~ddfr/

 

 

Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 17:43:07 -0800

From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Pickles, Pickles, Pickles (or: Bounced message from Vika)

 

Vika posted our recipe for pickled meat from the Miscellany, which is at:

http://www.best.com/~ddfr/Medieval/Articles/Camping%20without%20a%20cooler.html

 

and, after the recipe, commented:

 

>My notes:

...

>Strong (i.e. above 5% acidity) vinegar cost an arm and a leg for a small

>  bottle, so I used half reg. red-wine vinegar and half cider vinegar.

>As the recipe says, this is supposed to keep meat for up to three weeks

>  unrefrigerated.  I made it on, I think, Sunday, tried a bit Tuesday,

>  and served it Saturday.  The flavors were a bit better blended on Sat.,

>  I think, but it was perfectly acceptable on Tues.

 

The original recipe says strong vinegar. When I was researching this one, I

was worried about botulism, so I read up on the hazards of preserving food.

What I came up with was that vinegar of 5% or better will prevent the

botulism germs from getting a foothold in your stuff, and that 15 minutes

boiling will destroy the botulin toxin if it has developed. Given that some

meat juice is probably going to dilute your vinegar a bit, and that

standard wine or cider vinegar is sold at 5%, I would seriously recommend

paying that arm and a leg and mixing at least some of the strong vinegar

with your ordinary vinegar, as a safety measure.

 

We have in fact kept meat this way in a plastic tub on the kitchen counter,

covered but not specially sealed, for three or four weeks with no problems.

But that was with the stronger vinegar.

 

Elizabeth of Dendermonde/Betty Cook

 

 

Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 14:41:03 EDT

From: Weaver8002 at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - salmon recipe?

 

>>I can suggest the most common recipe to prepare "gravad lax", a Swedish

speciality. Cut the salmon in thin pieces and leave overnight in a

marinade composed of sugar, dill, blackpepper and salt. Easy, wonderful

tasty and not salty at all!

Ana L. Valdés>>

 

The recipe I've been using for the last 2 years takes a little longer.  I've

had great success with it, even took it to Pennsic last year, where it went

over very well.  It freezes very nicely although it never gets very hard.

 

Margherita the Weaver

 

GRAVLAX

 

2 salmon filets – about 1 lb. each

bunch fresh dill

1/4 cup kosher salt

1/4 cup brown sugar

2 T cracked peppercorns

 

Place one filet skin-side down in a deep glass, enamel or stainless steel

baking dish or loaf pan.  Spread the dill over the filet. Combine sugar,

salt & pepper and spread over the dill.  Place the second filet skin side up

on top.  Cover with plastic wrap & aluminum foil. Cover with weights (Canned

goods work well.)  Refrigerate for 3 days, turning and basting with

accumulated juices every 12 hours.  Scrape off the dill mixture.  Slice each

half, skin-side down, very thin.  Serve with black bread, spring onions and

honey mustard.

 

 

Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 09:52:52 -0400

From: "Gaylin Walli" <gwalli at infoengine.com>

Subject: SC - the Lord's Salt and the test of time

 

Cariadoc wrote:

>The Lord's Salt is something we have been making for years; it really works

>quite well for preserving meat. I don't guarantee six months, but we tested

>for several weeks.

 

I have tested this recipe with 5 different half quart jars of venison

steaks cut up and in large pieces. All 5 jars survived for at least 12 months,

mostly due to the fact that I forgot about them. They sat on the bottom shelf

of a kitchen cupboard for the vast majority of that time and did not fester.

 

The little residual fat from the meat floated to the top and went mildly

rancid (I say mildly because it was such a small amount of fat that

you could barely tell). This was easily skimmed. The meat itself was

completely lacking in texture. It reminded me a great deal of baby food:

edible but extremely boring.

 

jasmine

Iasmin de Cordoba

gwalli at infoengine.com

 

 

Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 09:29:58 -0600 (CST)

From: Jeff Heilveil <heilveil at uiuc.edu>

Subject: SC - Lord's Salt experiment.

 

Salut!

It has been a while since I last posted. Recently, I was moving out of my

house and heading out to a new one, and my housemate and I found a

left-over jar of Lord's Salt in a cabinet.  We had made it for Lillies

(Mid-June) and it was still around.  Having taken the precautions that my

pathology background provided, I sampled some of the meat. It was

wonderful.  It had even mellowed a little bit.  Now, we do things a little

differently than the recipe in the Miscellany.  Using a bottle of "Essig"

(25% acidity vinegar), we made a solution of 7% acidity vinegar (As

opposed to mixing 5% and 7% as suggested.  IT results in a strongly

flavored meat that works well for Roast of Meat, and for snacking on with

bread.  Well, it turns out that it also works well for meat that is still

safe to eat 4 and a half months later.

 

Bogdan

_______________________________________________________________________________

Jeffrey Heilveil M.S.                 Ld. Bogdan de la Brasov, C.W.

Department of Entomology                MoAS, Barony of Wurm Wald

University of Illinois                    Bucatar-sef, Wurm Wald

heilveil at uiuc.edu                             Middle Kingdom

 

 

Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 08:57:44 -0800

From: Maggie MacDonald <maggie5 at home.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Lord's Salt experiment.

 

At 09:29 AM 11/8/99 -0600,Jeff Heilveil said something like:

>It has been a while since I last posted. Recently, I was moving out of my

>house and heading out to a new one, and my housemate and I found a

>left-over jar of Lord's Salt in a cabinet.  We had made it for Lillies

>(Mid-June) and it was still around.

 

>Well, it turns out that it also works well for meat that is still

>safe to eat 4 and a half months later.

>

>Bogdan

 

The Calafian Cook's Guild did a redaction involving Lord's Salt many years

ago, and kept some of it in the back of the cabinet "just to see what would

happen". It was pulled out last year (after sitting for a couple of

years?). The meat in it was still perfectly good, tasted wonderful, and was

VERY usable. I do not recall what vinegar they used with it, but I remember

that I really enjoyed the strong spicy/savory flavor that went clear

through the meat.  The last time it came out it had to be "rinsed" a little

at first, to leech out some of the salt, but it was still very good.

 

Maggie MacD.

 

 

Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 08:43:03 -0000

From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Nanna_R=F6gnvaldard=F3ttir?=" <nannar at isholf.is>

Subject: Re: SC - Lord's Salt experiment. (long)

 

O.K., as several people have asked for it, here are the recipes and

translations. The Codex K version should be more correct than the Icelandic

version which derives from it.

 

Recipe no. 6:

 

Icelandic manuscript:

Quomodo temperetur salsum dominorum et quam diu durabit. Geroforsnagla skal

taka. ok muskat cardemomium pipar. canel. ingifer. sitt jæmn væge af hveriu.

utan canel. skal vera jafn ?ycktt vid alltt hitt annath ok svo micit steiktt

braud sem alltt ?at er fyr er sagtt. ok skera ?at alltt saman. ok mala me›

stercku ediki. ok lata j legil. ?at er ?eirra sals ok um eitt misseri.*

 

*The scribe has erased "mi" from misseri and written "ar" (year) instead.

 

How to make a sauce for lords and how many days it keeps. Take cloves and

nutmeg, cardamom, pepper, cinnamon, ginger, an equal weight of each, except

the cinnamon, which should be as much as all the others, and as much fried

bread as all the above, and cut it all together and crush it with strong

vinegar, and put in a cask. This is their sauce and is good for half a

year/one year.

 

Danish manuscript, Codex K:

Quomodo temperetur salsum dominorum et quam diu durat. Man skal takæ gørfærs

naghlæ. oc muscat. cardemomum. pipær. cinamomum thæt ær kaniæl. oc ingifær.

allæ iæfn wæghnæ. tho swa at kaniæl ær æm mykæt sum allæ hinæ andræ. oc slyk

tu stekt brøth sum allæ hinæ andræ. oc støt thæm allæ samæn. oc malæ mæth

stærk ædykæ oc latæ .i. en leghæl. Thæt ær hærræ salsæ. oc ær goth et halft

aar.

 

How to make a sauce for lords and how many days it keeps. Take cloves, and

nutmeg, cardamom, pepper, cinnamon, that is canel, and ginger, an equal

weight of each, but the cinnamon should be as much as all the other spices,

and also fried bread twice as much as all the rest. Crush it all together,

and grind with strong vinegar and put into a cask. This is lord´s sauce and

is good for six months.

 

Danish manuscript, Codex Q:

Mæn sculæ takæ gærofærs naghlæ, muscat pipær. oc ingifær. af hwær theræ æm

mykæt af cinamomum. æssæ the æræ allæ samæn. oc tysæ æmmykæt af hwith

brøthæ. stækt æssæ thæt ær alt oc støthæ thæt samæn mæth æddik. thennæ salsæ

haldæ mæn goth i eth halft aar i en læghlæ.

 

Take cloves, nutmeg, pepper and ginger, an equal amount of each, and as much

cinnamon as all the others, and twice as much white bread, fried as it is

whole, and pound this together with vinegar. This keeps well for six months

in a cask.

 

Recipe no. 7

 

Icelandic manuscript:

Quomodo condiantur assature in salso supra dicto. ?at sem madur vill af

?essu salse hafa ?a skal hann vella j ponnu vel a glodum branda lausum.

Sidan skal madur taka villi brad af hirti æda ra. ok specka vel. ok

steikina. ok skerra ?at vel brentt ok j ?ann tima sem salset er kalltt. ?a

skal ?etta ?ar slæggiaz med. littlu salltti. ?a ma liggia um ?riar vikur.

Sva ma madur leinge verd veita. gæs endur. ok adrar villibradir. ef hann

sker ?ær ?unnar. ?etta er betzta sals er herra menn hafa.

 

How to use the above sauce. Take what you want to use of this sauce and boil

it in a pan on hot embers without flame. Then take some game, hart or roe,

and lard it well, and roast it, and cut it well burned*, and when the sauce

is cold, then place the meat in it with a little salt. Then it can be kept

for three weeks. In this way geese, ducks and other game can be kept for a

long time, if cut thin. This is the best sauce that the lords have.

 

The original says "brentt", burned, but that is probably an error - the

Danish text has "brethæ", broad, thick.

 

Danish, Codex K:

Quomodo condiantur assature in salso supradicto.

Thavær man wil af hænnæ hauæ. tha skal man wællæ hænnæ wæl .i. en pannæ ofnæ

hetæ gløthær utæn brandæ. oc skal man takæ brathæ af hiort ællær ra. wæl

spækkæth oc stekæ them wæl. oc skæræ them wæl brethæ. oc thæn timæ thæn

salsæ ær kald tha skal wildbrath .i. læggæs mæth litælt salt oc thæt ma

lygge thre ukæ. Swa mughæ man haldæ goth hiortæ brath. giæs oc ændær. of man

skæR them thiokkæ. thættæ ær the bæstæ salsæ thær herræmæn hauæ.

 

How to make use of the above sauce. When you want to use some of it, then

boil it well in a pan on hot embers without flame. And take a steak of hart

or deer, well larded, and cut into thick slices. And when the sauce is cold,

then place the game in it with a little salt and it can be kept there for

three weeks. In this way one can preserve steaks of hart, geese and ducks,

if cut thick. This is the best sauce that the lords have.

 

Danish, Codex Q:

Wilæ mæn syltæ thær nokæt i. tha latæ thæt wællæ. oc sithæn thæt ær full

kalt tha skulæ mæn stækt wild brath kalt hiort ra. gaas. æth annæn wild

bradh. skoræth i stykki læggæ thæræ i mæth lit salt. thæn sylt mughæ mæn

gømæ thre vkæ.

 

If you want to pickle something in it, then let it boil, and when it is

quite cold, then place in it fried game, cold hart, roe, geese or other

game, cut into pieces and placed in the sauce with a little salt. This can

be kept for three weeks.

 

Nanna

 

 

Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 08:53:55 -0000

From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Nanna_R=F6gnvaldard=F3ttir?=" <nannar at isholf.is>

Subject: Re: SC - steaks

 

Stefan wrote:

>When I think of steak I think of slices of meat. I don't think of a steak as

>being other than sliced. In this paragraph "steak" seems to be more used as

>synonymous with "chunk of meat" or perhaps "roast" as it then specifies to

>cut it into thick slices. Also the second time "steak" is used as "steaks of

>hart, geese and ducks" seems to imply a more generic cut than I was thinking

>of. Perhaps it is my knowledge of meat cuts which is the problem. Comments,

>anyone?

 

Or just that I´m being too influenced by the original text and by my native

language. You see, "steik" in Icelandic and Old Norse (English borrowed the

word from ON) can mean either roast or slice of meat; the original meaning

of the verb "steikja" is "to roast on a spit". So I´m probably just using

the wrong English word here.

 

But - your question made me realize that I´ve skipped a few word of the

recipe - "oc stekæ them wæl", which translates as "and roast them well"

(note stekæ = roast). And now I remember I had originally translated the

text something like this "take a roast of hart or deer ... and roast them

well" and when I read the text again I thought "hey, that doesn´t sound too

good" - and in trying to correct the mistake I bungled the text. Sorry!

 

Nanna

 

 

Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 07:34:05 -0500

From: grizly at mindspring.com

Subject: Re: Re: SC - Lord's Salt experiment. (long)

 

> How to make a sauce for lords and how many days it keeps. Take cloves and

> nutmeg, cardamom, pepper, cinnamon, ginger, an equal weight of each, except

> the cinnamon, which should be as much as all the others, <<<SNIP>>>

 

The use of copious amounts of Cinnamon in all of these recipes strikes a curious chord for me.  I read, this summer, an abstract of an article based on research done at Harvard, IIRC.  they determined that cinnamon had an effect on bacteria on food. . . I believe it was bacteriostatic.  The food with cinnamon basically retarded growth of bacteria, and the researchers suggested that cinnamon had the effect of protecting foods in the middle ages where it was used in the brines or marinades.

 

These recipes may be good support for that basic research.

 

niccolo difrancesco

 

 

Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 13:10:52 EST

From: ChannonM at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - Lord's Salt experiment. (long)

 

grizly at mindspring.com writes:

<< I believe it was bacteriostatic.  >>

 

According to The Complete New Herbal, by Richard Mabey, Penguin Books;

...cinnamon bark oil is antibacterial, inhibiting E.coli, Staphylococcus

aureus and thrush (Candida albicans)

 

 

Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 10:06:33 -0500

From: Lurking Girl <tori at panix.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Lord's Salt experiment. upcoming trial with venison

 

ChannonM at aol.com wrote:

> I am going to try out this recipe this weekend. I have some basic questions

> before I start out.

>

> 1.Strong vinegar- someone posted that you need to use 7% versus the ordinary

> 5% acid level, where could I obtain such a vinegar, or is there a name for it

> that would be universal

 

After getting a mild scolding about using 5% :), rather than trying a

specialty food market, where they had such things but they were deadly

expensive, I just went to the supermarket, and sure enough they had

some vinegars which were about the same price but more acidic.  They

didn't seem to have a separate name.

 

> Is there something that I can obtain to scientifically

> demonstrate that it is safe before I condemn my fellow cooks to a day of

> vomiting and other nasties, if that is the least of the problems to result

> from bad food. I just want to be very careful in what I serve to others, so

> please forgive the anal retentiveness on this.

 

If it's of any help as a statistical point, my 5% stuff was fed to a whole

bunch of people (including myself) at a vigil in February, and there were

no ill effects as far as I know.  So if you're using the stronger vinegar,

logically you should be fine.

 

Vika

 

 

Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 13:10:33 EST

From: ChannonM at aol.com

Subject: SC - Write up on Lord's Salt experiment

 

Hello everyone,

 

Well, I managed to come through on this write up and here it is except the

original recipes (I would think everyone could pull up their old posts on it,

it is alot of space). Hope this is as interesting to you as it was in

performing.

 

Hauviette

 

My Recipe Recreation

In approaching this recipe I wanted to make a large enough quantity that I

could use it as a “shelf item” and have the combined ingredients to keep on

hand for future use. As such I  began with a fair quantity of Cinnamon

Zeylanicum (the recipe specifies canel) and using a metric scale for

accuracy, I weighed out the Cinnamon first to obtain the total weight that

all of the other spices should be combined. The recipes asks

for “an equal amount of each, but the cinnamon should be as much as all the

rest”. In this my dilemma was should my measurements be mass or volume. I

chose mass and my reasoning is that most recipes are a prescription in their

origin (see the definition of  “recipe”) and as such the ingredients would

have been obtained in weighted amounts. The volume of say ground nutmeg Vs

cloves is substantially different and as such only weight would give me equal

amounts of each. My justification for using grams in my experiment was that

the scale I have is electronic and can convert to either metric or imperial,

however when using ounces the scale can be out by as much a .2 of  an ounce,

but would only be out by 1gm at the most. I have converted the quantities for

those who do not have access to a metric measurement, but would suggest that

when buying the ingredients that you simply buy in said quantities instead of

trying to determine the quantities in dry measure. This will ensure fresh

spices are used which may be instrumental in the preservative aspect of this

recipe although there is argument that the spices used in the middle ages

would have had a diminished strength due to the time spent in travel and the

adulteration by middle men. Finally, I have rounded off the measurement to

imperial since 1 ounce is equal to 28.35 grams and my quantities of the

spices were only 31g (greater than an ounce by 2.65 grams).

 

Base ingredients: combine the following dry ingredients and use 1 cup to 3.5

cups vinegar per recipe

Cloves      31g or 1 ounce      Ginger      31g or 1 ounce

Nutmeg      31g or 1 ounce      Pepper      31g or 1 ounce

Cardamom    31g or 1 ounce      Cinnamon    186g or 5 ounces

Pepper      31g or 1 ounce

Bread crumbs    372g or 1.37 lb. (22 ounces)

 

Red Wine Vinegar 3.5 cups

 

1.5 LB of venison steak (preferred a roast, but steak was all that was

available)

2 TB lard

1 tsp. salt

 

Method;

Grind the spices and combine with the bread crumbs. Using a pestle, grind the

dry ingredients together to ensure the crumbs are well inundated with the

spices. Add the vinegar and further mash the contents of the bowl.

 

Pour the spice/bread crumb/vinegar combination into a sauce pan and place

over low heat. Stirring regularly, bring to a full boil for 1.5 to 2 minutes.

Remove from heat and let cool thoroughly.

 

Meanwhile, remove any fat from the venison and spread lard over the surface.

Place in an oven proof dish, into the oven at 350 degrees for 35 minutes.

Remove from the oven and let cool.

 

Using a shallow covered dish, pour half of the cooled spice mixture into it.

Place the meat on top of this and then pour the remaining sauce over the

meat, making sure that it is well covered. Put the dish in a cool, dry place

(this dish is meant to be a preserved meat )and keep for up to  three  weeks

(although there are a few people who have kept it for months and attest that

it is perfectly safe I have yet to determine that).

 

A Discussion;

 

The Codex K and Codex Q state that the amount of bread crumbs “fried bread”

should be “twice as much as all the rest” as opposed to the Icelandic

Manuscript requiring  “as much fried bread as all the others”. I chose to

follow the earlier manuscripts and totaled the weight of all spices and

doubled it for the amount of bread crumbs.

 

The issue of “strong vinegar”  was discussed on the SCA Cooks list and I was

advised to purchase a 7% vinegar that would be particularly strong and seemed

to fit the recipes requirement (it calls for “strong vinegar”). However, I

had been part of other discussions regarding making your own vinegar’s as

opposed to using commercially produced varieties and an unscientific

conclusion was reached that since vinegar’s would have been used fairly soon

after inception and having been made using a suspected weaker “mother of

vinegar” then the acidity level would have been lower than what we have

available as the average vinegar today. As such, and considering I was unable

to locate any vinegar’s with an acidity level higher that 5%, I used a common

red wine vinegar with a 5% acidity level. Red Wine vinegar was chosen as the

best accompaniment to game. The quantity of  dry ingredients to vinegar was 1

cup dry to 3.5 cups vinegar. Anything less than 3 cups of liquid produced a

gel like mass that was almost impossible to bring to a boil. The added .5 cup

was to ensure coverage of the meat in the dish and to account for the

thickening of the product during cooking.

 

I combined the dry ingredients in a medium sized metal bowl and ground the

ingredients together as much as was possible using a pestle . Taking 1 cup of

the dry ingredients and pouring in  3.5 cups of vinegar I mashed the contents

further. This sauce was then slowly brought to boil on low heat stirring

regularly to prevent scorching . The recipe directs you to “take what you

want of this sauce and boil it in a pan on hot embers without flame” hence,

the temperature was kept at 3 on the dial of an electric stove.

 

I was lucky to have venison available to me although not in a roast but

steaks. The lady who translated the recipes, states that the word “stekae”

actually means roast, not steak and is probably the root for the English word

for steak. Since the roast is then further cut into “thick slices”, I felt it

sufficient to follow the spirit of the recipe using pre-sliced roasts. Not

using a roast may have an effect on the texture of the meat in the end, since

the centre and edges of the meat would cook simultaneously as opposed to

varying times. In order to compensate to some degree I folded the steaks into

a larger “piece” of meat and roasted them as such. Upon initial tasting, we

found the venison to be on the dry side, as the sauce had yet to penetrate

the meat. The next trial will be 5 days post the construction of the dish.

 

A modern analysis of the spices used in this dish

 

According to The Complete New Herbal, by Richard Mabey, Penguin Books;

 

Cinnamon bark oil is antibacterial, inhibiting E.coli, Staphylococcus aureus

and thrush (Candida albicans)

 

Cloves are strongly antiseptic due to the high percent of phenols.

 

Black Pepper stimulates the taste buds and helps promote gastric secretions,

in addition, I believe there is some research out there that says it is also

a preservative of foods.

 

The Complete Medicinal Herbal, Penelope Ody tells us that;

 

Nutmeg is carminative (relieves flatulence, digestive colic and gastric

discomfort), is a  digestive stimulant and antispasmodic, prevents vomiting,

appetite stimulant, anti inflammatory  and is used as digestive remedy

especially for food poisoning. Used in large doses (7.5g or more in a single

dose) is dangerous producing convulsions and palpitations.

 

Cardamom is antispasmodic, carminative and a digestive stimulant.

 

Ginger is a circulatory stimulant, relaxes peripheral blood vessel, promotes

sweating, expectorant, prevents vomiting, antispasmodic, carminative,

antiseptic.

 

 

Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 11:38:59 -0600

From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Lord's Salt experiment. upcoming trial with venison

 

At 5:39 PM -0500 11/10/99, Hauviette wrote:

>I am going to try out this recipe this weekend. I have some basic questions

>before I start out.

>

>1.Strong vinegar- someone posted that you need to use 7% versus the ordinary

>5% acid level, where could I obtain such a vinegar, or is there a name for it

>that would be universal

 

When we first did this recipe, I read up on botulism. From what my

sources said, vinegar that is 5% or better will prevent the botulism

bugs from growing in your stuff, and boiling for 15 minutes will

destroy the botulin toxin if it has developed. We figured that the

vinegar is getting somewhat diluted by the meat juices and that it

would therefore be safer to start with stronger vinegar.

 

>5. Is there a test that I can perform to determine the level of bacteria

>before eating it? Is there something that I can obtain to scientifically

>demonstrate that it is safe before I condemn my fellow cooks to a day of

>vomiting and other nasties, if that is the least of the problems to result

>from bad food. I just want to be very careful in what I serve to others, so

>please forgive the anal retentiveness on this.

 

I don't know about a test. We have usually served this to others in

dishes cooked at least 15 minutes, but have often eaten it ourselves

out of the jar. The original batch we made sat on the kitchen counter

for three or four weeks, being opened every couple of days so we

could take out another piece and eat it. We haven't poisoned

ourselves then or since, and we have been doing the recipe for years.

Our version is in the Miscellany.

 

Elizabet6h/Betty Cook

 

 

Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 23:48:10 -0700

From: "James F. Johnson" <seumas at mind.net>

Subject: Re: SC - jerky documentation?

 

Apicius gives a recipe for preserving cooked sides of pork and beef in a

pickle of vinegar, honey, salt, and mustard. That's basically it. No

mention of amounts, and definitely no mention of _drying_, but the

ingredients would make tasty marinade for dried meat.

 

Seumas

 

 

Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 18:00:08 -0700

From: "James F. Johnson" <seumas at mind.net>

Subject: SC - Adaptation from Apicius for jerking meat

 

Seumas commented:

> I tried a preservative solution from Apicius with vinegar, salt,

> mustard, and honey, but proportions are not included, so I have been

> experimenting.

 

Stefan li Rous replied

> Interesting. Apicius recipe please? Would this be dried/ground mustard

> seed since you already have liquid with the vinegar and the honey? Or

> would this be a mustard sauce?

 

>From the 1936 Vehling translation of Apicius, Book I, Chapter VII

[Vehling 11]:

 

"To keep cooked sides of pork or beef or tenderloins place them in a

pickle of mustard, vinegar, salt and honey, covering meat entirely. And

when ready to use, you'll be surprised."

 

If I recall correctly (Mmm...notes have disappeared) I started with

750ml of red wine vinegar, 250ml of honey, 4 Tablespoons each of ground

mustard and sea salt. This itself tasted mostly of vinegar naturally, so

I doubled the amount of mustard and honey. I might have added more sea

salt, but this used up the last in the kitchen at that time. The sliced

meat marinated in the fridge for a full day, then 24+ hours in a 150 F

oven. Came out very dry (brittle) and slightly tangy of the vinegar. I

would prefer it more spicy/savoury, so later attempts will increase the

mustard and salt again. I might go so far as to make a very thin paste

of mustard and salt using the vinegar and honey. I'm also considering

grinding up the salt with the mustard for an additional dredge of the

meat before packing and marinating. Personally, I would like to try some

with black pepper, perhaps ginger. I like more pungent flavours.

 

Seumas

 

 

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:30:34 +1100

From: Lorix <lorix at trump.net.au>

Subject: Re: SC - Brining of meats in period

 

Liam Fisher wrote:

> has onyone seen any evidence of brining meats (not pickling or marinating)

> before cooking in period? It's just a technique I've been experimenting with

> as of late that works well with old tom turkeys and tougher cuts of meat

> where you soak the meat in a decently strong salt/sugar solution overnight

> (not a technique that I recommend if you are salt/sugar sensitive) and then

> roast the meat the next day.  I also brine turkeys sometimes when they won't

> entirely thawed by the time I want to cook them.

>

> Cadoc

 

Ahh, you have stumbled across my current pet project! However, I am looking for

the pickling of fish rather than meat, but my current info appears to apply.  I

note, that I have been looking for pickling recipes, in the following sources I

suggest I have seen a number of recipes where the meat appears to have been

brined for preservation & then cooked in a manner later to extract the salt.

Since my research has been directed at the exact opposite of what you want, I

can only give you the references rather than the recipes.

 

Might I suggest that you refer to this webpage:

http://www.best.com/~ddfr/Medieval/Cookbooks/Menagier/Menagier.html

 

This gives several references to the salting of both fish & meats eg:

"Item, at Besiers, from St. Andrew's day [November 30] which is before

Christmas, sheep are salted in quarters, by rubbing well with salt, and rubbing

again, and so on and so on, and then piling the quarters on top of each other

for eight days and then putting in the fireplace.

 

If you want to salt beef or sheep in winter, have coarse salt and dry it well in

the pan, then grind it well, and salt.

 

And note that in June and July mutton should be soaked, then salted.

 

To Salt Beef Tongues. In the right season for salting, take a quantity of beef

tongues and parboil them a little, then take them out and skin them, then salt

them one after another, and lay them in salt for eight days or ten, then hang

them in the fireplace, leaving them there for the winter: then hang them in a

dry place, for one year or two or three or four.

 

Goose must be salted naturally for three days.

 

Coot salted for two days are good with cabbage.

 

Wood Duck also; note that they come every three years.

 

If a hare is taken two or three weeks before Easter, or at some other time when

you want to save it, gut it and take out the entrails, then cut the skin on its

head and break it, and make an opening in the head and remove the brain and fill

the hole with salt and sew up the skin: it will keep for a month if hung by the

ears."

 

These are only a few references from this source, but I have found this the best

source thus far for info on preservation.

 

Alternatively, online, you may wish to check out:

Sabina Welserin's cookbook has some recipes (eg no 29). It also has a recipe

for 'marinated' fish (168) which involves cooking the fish (which I don't want

to do, but more to what you are looking at).

http://www.best.com/~ddfr/Medieval/Cookbooks/Sabrina_Welserin.html

 

Du fait de cuisine (Chiquart) - This has references to serving "salted grey

mullet' and 'salted filleted pike' and serving same with mustard on a side

dish.  I believe that it also has references to salted meat (again no recipes)

http://www.best.com/~ddfr/Medieval/Cookbooks/Du_Fait_de_Cuisine/Du_fait_de_Cuisine.html#ProvisionofFish.

 

Now, my research has mainly been directed at the curing/preserving of fish, but

it may be that this can be applied to meats to!  I know salted fish existed in a

form to preserve for many years (per Chiquart, Taillevent & Menagier).  I have

found recipes that use salted fish BUT must be cooked prior to serving (to

extract salt).  However, there appears to be another way that fish were

preserved.  I have found elusive references to fish that was served salted (and

apparently uncooked with sauces), further in Terence Scully's book on early

French Cookery there is a reference from a 13th Century Doctor who advocates

that fish should be eaten within a few days of salting. So this appears to

suggest that some fish were salted for long-term preservation, whilst others

were salted as a manner of food preparation (like gravelax).

 

Lorix

 

 

Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 11:54:45 -0500

From: Elaine Koogler <ekoogler at chesapeake.net>

Subject: Re: SC - Competition entry

 

> I still need suggestions for a period savory cold dish, something thinly

> sliced or perhaps a pate of bull's balls.  My other idea was calf's tongue

> thinly sliced.  What do you think Ras, anything in your collection regards

> giving tongue at Art/Sci?

>

> Daniel Raoul

 

Check out several of the late period cookery books.  There is a Pork Brawn that

is pickled and served cold with a vinegar-mustard sauce. I served it a couple

of years ago at an Elizabethan feast, and it was very well received!  There is a

redaction, if you're interested, in Dining with William Shakespeare, but you can

find originals in Digby, May and others.

 

Kiri

 

 

From: "Jane M & Bj Tremaine" <vikinglord at worldnet.att.net>

To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 14:05:07 -0700

Subject: [Sca-cooks] RE: [Sca-cooks]feast

 

This is the recipe for the pickled chicken that was served at a recent

banquett I went to.  I loved this chicken.

 

PICKLED PULLETS

The French Cook

 

After they are will dressed. cleave them in two, if they are small. break

their bone and set them a pickling with vinegar, salt, peper, chibol and

lemon peels: let them steep therein, till you have occasion to use them, and

then set them a draining, flowre them, and frie them in fresh seame or lard;

after they are fryed, stove them a very little with their pickle them serve

them with a short sauce.

 

Redaction by THL Gillian of Lynnhaven and Magnus Gra'hetta

 

3lbs chicken breasts (6 half breasts)

Lemon peel form two lemon (1 lemon for overnight pickling, 2 lemons for 1/2

hour pickling)

3/4 cups white wine vinegar

2 tsp. salt

1 tsp. pepper

4 green onions (chibol) approx. 1/2 cup

2 cups of flour

1/4 cup sesame oil

additional green onion and sesame seeds for garnish

 

Cut chicken into strips. (each breast in 1/2 then in 1/3 strips) Marinade

in first 5 ingredients 3 hours maximum.

Drain off the pickling juice and reserve.  Roll the chicken pieces in flour

and fry in Indian sesame oil. Remove the chicken from the pan and add the

juice.  Simmer the juice to reduce by 1/2.  Garnish the chicken with chopped

green onions and sesame seeds.  Serve with the sauce on the side.  12

servings, 3 strips per person.

 

Jana

 

 

Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 15:30:12 -0700

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

From: Maggie MacDonald <maggie5 at home.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] period fried chicken?

 

At 05:13 PM 7/18/01 -0500,Mark.S Harris said something like:

>Jana gave a recipe:

>

>PICKLED PULLETS

>The French Cook

>

>Jana, or anyone else, can you give us more details on the original

>recipe? It does sound interesting. I wonder how the taste changes if

>the meat is kept in the pickling juice for a week or two instead of

>only a few hours. If this is meant to preserve the meat, why the

>"3 hours maximum" in the redacted recipe? If this does keep the

>meat, I wonder if this would work for keeping meat without refrigeration

>for things like Pennsic.

>

>Stefan li Rous

 

From what I observed, while cooking the pickled chicken (at that

particular feast), if you left the chicken in that marinade much longer, it

would be completely cooked, and do what cooked chicken does, fall apart.

 

I'd definitely play with this at home before attempting to use it 'out in

the field', such as at Pennsic.  We marinated a bit less than three hours,

and the outsides of the chicken was thoroughly cooked, with the centers

were still slightly pink. It was a very lovely dish though.

 

Maggie MacD.

 

 

Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 22:12:16 -0400

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] period fried chicken?

 

"Mark.S Harris" wrote:

> Jana gave a recipe:

>

> PICKLED PULLETS

> The French Cook

>

> After they are will dressed. cleave them in two, if they are small. break

> their bone and set them a pickling with vinegar, salt, peper, chibol and

> lemon peels: let them steep therein, till you have occasion to use them, and

> then set them a draining, flowre them, and frie them in fresh seame or lard;

> after they are fryed, stove them a very little with their pickle them

> serve them with a short sauce.

>

> Redaction by THL Gillian of Lynnhaven and Magnus Gra'hetta

>

> <snip>

>

> Cut chicken into strips. (each breast in 1/2 then in 1/3 strips)

> Marinade in first 5 ingredients 3 hours maximum.

> Drain off the pickling juice and reserve.  Roll the chicken pieces in

> flour and fry in Indian sesame oil.

> <snip>

>

> We've discussed chicken recipes many times before, including some that

> were fried. This is the first that I can remember that calls for the

> chicken to be floured and then fried. Sounds pretty close to modern

> fried chicken to me.

 

Except that this is more like braised chicken, because the cooking is

finished in the marinade. The recipe than talks of serving them with a

"short", or rich, sauce. It seems to me thickening the marinade with

some egg yolks would be the way to go for a fricassee sort of effect. I

have a couple of questions, though...

 

> But I don't recognise the book and there is not time frame for the

> recipe given. So this might not actually be a period recipe.

 

Well, depending on your version of period, this is pretty darned late.

Le Cuisinier Francoise, written by La Varenne in approximately 1650, was

translated into English some short time later, maybe 1655 or so. That

appears to be the source for this.

 

> Jana, or anyone else, can you give us more details on the original

> recipe? It does sound interesting. I wonder how the taste changes if

> the meat is kept in the pickling juice for a week or two instead of

> only a few hours. If this is meant to preserve the meat, why the

> "3 hours maximum" in the redacted recipe? If this does keep the

> meat, I wonder if this would work for keeping meat without refrigeration

> for things like Pennsic.

 

That would depend on the strength of the vinegar, I suspect, but then I

also suspect that the palatability might be compromised by really strong

vinegar. Part of the issue of marinating time may have a lot to do with

the portion/service control, which involves the chicken pieces being

smaller than 1/3 of the size the recipe seems to stipulate [halves].

Presumably larger pieces would require a longer time for the acid to

penetrate into the flesh, and to denature ("cook") the protein. It

should be noted that the safe cooking temp for potentially

salmonella-ridden American battery chickens is 157 degrees F. and up;

after steeping it in acid, that is one cooked bird, but I have no

records on whether vinegar has any effect at all on salmonella or its

produced toxins.

 

I'm in the midst of some kind of brain bubble as to the acidity of

natural vinegars; I know commercial vinegars are normally brought either

up or down to 5% acidity, but I forget whether real vinegar would be

more or less potent than this. It's been a long day. If the vinegar is

less strong than we;re used to, and the pieces of bird are larger than

the adapted recipe calls for, it's conceivable that the recipe would

work without rendering the chicken already cooked before... um...

cooking it. And then, of course, it's possible that if the vinegar were

"weak", it wouldn't keep very well at Pennsic.

 

I agree that some experimentation might be in order.

 

So. Why Indian sesame oil? Is this just a matter of personal aesthetics

on the part of the adaptors of the original recipe?

 

Adamantius

 

 

From: "Peters, Rise J." <rise.peters at spiegelmcd.com>

To: "'sca-cooks at ansteorra.org'" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] Re: Period Fried Chicken

Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 11:35:11 -0400

 

The pickling juice is boiled down as a sauce, so the raw chicken germs get

cooked.

 

From: Elise Fleming [mailto:alysk at ix.netcom.com]

> Greetings.  The "Pickled Pullets" sounded tasty so I copied off the

> recipe.  Just read it this morning and now I have a question.  It

> says to set the chicken in a pickling of vinegar, salt, pepper,

> chibol and lemon peels and to let them steep.  Then the chicken is

> fried, and they are served with some of the pickle in which they (as

> raw chickens) sat for a number of hours.  My question is... Is this

> safe?  Does that pickling really kill all the nasty raw chicken

> germs that we are warned about?  How come modern marinades, to which

> you add vinegar and water, tell you to throw out the marinade and

> not re-use it?

>

> Alys Katharine

 

 

From: "Jane M & Bj Tremaine" <vikinglord at worldnet.att.net>

To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] Re: Period Fried Chicken

Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 10:04:06 -0700

 

> The pickling juice is boiled down as a sauce, so the raw chicken germs get

> cooked.

 

According to a modern BBQ book I have if you put a Marinade on the stove a

boil it for 5 minutes after the meat has been removed it is safe to use as a

sauce or to brush on the meat when it is cooking.

 

Jana

 

 

Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 13:25:53 -0400

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] period fried chicken?

 

Jane M & Bj Tremaine wrote:

> The receipe states fry them in fresh sesame or lard? I think the sesame oil

> is an interpretation of this.

>

> But I'll ask Gill and find out for sure.

 

Ah. Okay, I think I get it now. I think it calls for fresh seyme (or

maybe it is spelled seame in this one), which is usually acknowledged to

refer to fat skimmed off the broth from boiling meat. Essentially,

clarified beef drippings, etc.

 

I guess it could easily look like a typo for sesame if you're not

familiar with the term...

 

Adamantius

 

 

Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 11:02:24 -0700

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

From: Maggie MacDonald <maggie5 at home.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: Period Fried Chicken

 

At 11:01 AM 7/19/01 -0500,Elise Fleming said something like:

> How come modern marinades, to which

>you add vinegar and water, tell you to throw out the marinade and

>not re-use it?

>

>Alys Katharine

 

This marinade is added to the pan after the chicken has been cooked and

removed, and it deglazes the pan (as well as making a very tasty

gravy).  Any of the nasty germs/microbes that COULD be in the marinade are

then very well cooked, just like the chicken.  You don't just toss the

marinade in the pan then toss it on the plate, it gets cooked for several

minutes. (Or at least, that's the way we did it at the feast).

 

Maggie MacD.

 

 

Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 09:21:08 -0400

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: Period Fried Chicken

 

Elise Fleming wrote:

> Except that's what the original recipe says to do.  I didn't post

> back into this thread after I read that the modern interpretation

> said to boil up the marinade.  But there is no evidence in the

> original recipe that one was to do that.  With subsequent posts in

> later digests (I'm sort of behind!) it seems that it still might not

> be a safe thing to do.  I suppose one could make up more marinade,

> or reserve some of it prior to putting the chicken in.

 

Yes, the original recipe (which has perversely vanished from where i

thought I would find it) says something about stoving it for a short

time (or some such) in the marinade, and then says to serve it with a

short sauce. So, you are presumably finishing it fairly quickly in the

pickle, which you might presumably use as the basis for your sauce, but

that appears to be optional, so long as the sauce is "short", which a

marinade isn't. "Short" generally means fatty, rich, or tender, as in

short paste, so maybe some butter beaten in for a drawn/beaten butter or

beurre blanc kind of effect might be recognizable to the original cook,

or maybe an egg yolk liaison might be nice. But I suspect the shortness

of the sauce is to counteract the sourness of the marinade, and it

doesn't really specify whether the pickle is intended as a sauce

component at all. Maybe claret, orange juice and butter? The options are

pretty broad.

 

As for the safety issues of using the marinade as a sauce, well, what

tends to be pathogenic and/or toxic about undercooked chicken is killed

at a temperature that is pretty low by simmering standards. Assuming the

marinade gets hotter than even poaching temperatures of around 160

degrees Fahrenheit, it should be pretty safe.

 

Adamantius

 

 

Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 16:32:43 -0400

From: Tom Bilodeau <tirloch at cox.rr.com>

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] pickled beef

 

Here is one recipe for pickled beef:

-----

SPICED BEEF  (OR SPYCED BEEF)

by Winifred Corbet de Wynterwood

For many of the feasts I have prepared, I have prepared a dish of cold spiced

beef.  Frequently, I have been asked for the recipe. Well, for those of you

whom I gave the recipe to and unfortunately misplaced it (I usually end up

misplacing recipes I get from others) or have never gotten a copy but want it

here it is.

 

Recipe

beef roast

whole bay leaves

whole mustard seeds

onions, sliced

vinegar

sugar

Roast the beef, let cool.  Slice the beef reasonably thin after it has cooled.

Layer the beef in a pot or some kind of sealable container.  Between beef layers

layer sliced onions (enough to make a layer), two bay leaves and a bunch of

mustard seed.  Mix together the vinegar and sugar.  Use just enough sugar to

take away the acidic bite of the vinegar.  Pour the vinegar/sugar mixture over

the layers until they are covered.  Place the lid on the container and set in

the refrigerator for at least two days.  When ready to serve, remove the beef

from the other things in the pot and serve cold.

 

Comments

This is the way I prepare this dish. I have not included any amounts for bay

leaves, mustard seed, onion, vinegar or sugar.  Frankly, I never know how much I

used each time I have prepared this dish.  Just use whatever works.

When slicing the beef, this works best if the roast is icebox cold.  I usually

cut the beef slices into about 2 inch pieces, this way it is easier to layer

them in the pot.  I don't think the recipe specifies which type of vinegar to

use, but I prefer to use a mixture of apple cider vinegar and red wine vinegar

rather than white vinegar.  This provides a better flavor to the beef.

When preparing to serve the beef, I have sometimes rinsed the beef pieces in

cold water when I thought they were a little too strong. Use your own judgment.

 

Credits

I got this recipe from Dame Winifred Corbet de Wynterwood who got it from

Mistress Meghan Pengwyn of Wynterwood who got it from Duchess Melisande de

Belvoir who I believe got it from Grafin Judith von Gruenwald.

 

~Tirloch of Tallaght

 

 

From: BaronessaIlaria at aol.com

Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 17:04:27 EDT

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] pickled beef

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

 

tirloch at cox.rr.com writes:

> Credits

>  I got this recipe from Dame Winifred Corbet de Wynterwood who got it from

>  Mistress Meghan Pengwyn of Wynterwood who got it from Duchess Melisande de

>  Belvoir who I believe got it from Grafin Judith von Gruenwald.

>  ~Tirloch of Tallaght

 

Bingo! That is exactly the path it took. We usually roasted the beef to about

medium doneness, some cooks prefering to go a little more toward well done.

The beef has a faint sweetness to it when its ready and a nice tang from the

vinegar, onions and mustard. I've never liked pickles and resisted eating

this for a couple of years after I started making it for events but I finally

gave in and tried it. Yum! It keeps beautifully, though it rarely results in

leftovers to keep.

 

We usually used cider or red vinegar, and one thing I note it does not

mention in the text is to shake the tub every so often while you're poking in

the fridge during the two days. That keeps the flavors melded nicely. It

should also be in something non-metallic so the vinegar doesn't react with

the container.

 

Meghan/Ilaria

 

 

Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2005 01:39:32 -0400

From: Robin <rcmann4 at earthlink.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] The Lords Salt; danish text

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

UlfR wrote:

 

> I need to get hold of the Danish text for the Lords Salt (from Grewe). I

> know I have the book, but it must be hiding in a small, dark corner of

> the house, probably in the same corner as Stefanssons Arctic Manual.

>

> One should never move.

>

> /UlfR

 

Thomas Gloning has a transcription of Codex K on his website:

http://staff-www.uni-marburg.de/%7Egloning/harp-kkr.htm

 

and Henry Notaker has Codex Q:

http://www.notaker.com/onlitxts/molbech.htm

--

Brighid ni Chiarain

Barony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom

Robin Carroll-Mann *** rcmann4 at earthlink.net

 

 

Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2005 10:39:49 +0200

From: Volker Bach <carlton_bach at yahoo.de>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] The Lords Salt; danish text

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

 

Am Samstag, 9. Juli 2005 09:22 schrieb UlfR:

> Robin <rcmann4 at earthlink.net> [2005.07.09] wrote:

>> Thomas Gloning has a transcription of Codex K on his website:

>> http://staff-www.uni-marburg.de/%7Egloning/harp-kkr.htm

>> and Henry Notaker has Codex Q:

>> http://www.notaker.com/onlitxts/molbech.htm

>

> The transcription is of no muse to me (it is the Danish original I

> want).

 

This is from the Gloining text - I think it is what you are looking for

 

K6. Quomodo temperetur salsum dominorum

  et quam diu durat. (Q5)

 

  Man skal tak¾ g¿rf¾rs naghl¾. oc muscat. cardemomum.

  pip¾r. cinamomum th¾t ¾r kani¾l. oc ingif¾r. all¾

  i¾fn w¾ghn¾. tho swa at kani¾l ¾r ¾m myk¾t sum all¾

  hin¾ andr¾. oc slyk tu stekt br¿th sum all¾ hin¾ andr¾.

  oc st¿t¾ them all¾ sam¾n. oc mal¾ m¾th st¾rk ¾dyk¾ oc

  lat¾ .i. en l¾gh¾l. Th¾t ¾r h¾rr¾ sals¾. oc ¾r goth et

  halft aar.

 

> And the Notaker section does not appear to have that recipie in it.

 

Yes, but under #5

 

5. M¾n scul¾ tak¾ g¾rof¾rs naghl¾. muskat pip¾r oc ing¾f¾r. af hw¾r ther¾ ¾m

myk¾t. oc ¾m myk¾taf cinamomum ¾sse the ¾r¾ all¾ sam¾n. oc tys¾ ¾mmyk¾t af

hwith bršth¾ st¾kt, ¾sse th¾t ¾r alt, oc stšth¾ th¾t sam¾n m¾th ¾dik, th¾nn¾

sals¾ hald¾ m¾n goth i eth halft aar i en l¾ghl¾. Wil¾ m¾n sylt¾ th¾r nok¾t

i, tha lat¾ th¾t w¾ll¾, oc sith¾n th¾t ¾r full kalt tha scul¾ m¾n st¾kt wild

brath kalt, hiort, ra, gaas ¾th ann¾n wild brath, skor¾th i stykki, l¾gg¾

th¾r¾ i m¾th lit salt, th¾n sylt mugh¾ m¾n gšm¾ thre vk¾.

 

BTB, the use os 'garofaers/gorfaers' for cloves indicates a Scandinavian

connection even for the parts of the WolfenbŸttel MS not part of the

Haprestreng tradition. Thanks for getting me to notice that.

 

Giano

 

<the end>



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