meat-smoked-msg - 2/12/10

Medieval smoked meats. Smoking meats.

NOTE: See also the files: canning-msg, food-storage-msg, pickled-foods-msg stockfish-msg, pickled-meats-msg, roast-meats-msg, ham-msg.

************************************************************************
NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.

Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

Thank you,
    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
************************************************************************

From: "gabrial" <gabrial at prysm.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Smoked salmon SCA feast
Date: 8 Jul 1997 19:30:33 GMT

> I have a few questions:
> 
> How think of meat and salmon to you use?
> How long do I smoke it?
> How do you store it after you smoke it?
> 
> Any other tips for making smoked products for Pensic?

  There is a Web ring called the Smoke Ring I believe and one of the sites
has a page about smoking salmon,  I checked it out once as I was going to
try it.. <but never did>  But it tells all about it,  I believe that I
found the ring by searching yahoo for bbq sauces..   if you have problems
finding it, mail me and i'll give it a shot after I get off work.

gabrial


From: rmorrisson at aol.com (RMorrisson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Smoked salmon SCA feast
Date: 21 Jul 1997 00:56:51 GMT

Greetings from Myfanwy!

My lord has been making smoked salmon (and occasionally poultry) for
events and for Pennsic for a number of years.  He *always* cooks things
thoroughly afterwards -- 10 minutes per inch of thickness for the fish
(don't know the oven temp) and an hour at I think 400 degrees F. for the
birds (generally game hens).

Basically, the fish is soaked in a saltwater and sugar brine with a bunch
of spices and white wine and soy sauce, overnight in the fridge, then
smoked for some length of time (usually 4-6 hours for the fish, then
brought inside and cooked.  (The brine recipe came with the smoker -- yes,
we know soy sauce isn't period in Europe, but we haven't found a period
brine recipe anywhere yet).

Incidently, there is a reference in _Fast and Feast_ to the use of alder
wood for smoking fish in period.

Lady Myfanwy ferch Rhiannon
mka Ruth Morrisson


Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 16:57:14 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Smoking Questions

Kea ErisDottir wrote:
> In addition, I have plans to built and make an attempt to run some kind of
> small smoke house.  I would love information on what we actually know about
> period methods and structures so that i may build something and play with
> the fire :) :) :)

This is a tough one. We know that, for instance, Smithfield hams from
Virginia were made from some time in the 17th century, with little or no
change in the process. It's a pretty safe bet that smokehouses existed
in period. Unfortunately there are few written accounts (in fact, none
that I'm aware of, but I'm trying to hedge my bets here ;  )   ) of
smokehouse operation. What we do have are recipes for various smoked
foods, from ancient Roman sources like Cato the Elder and Apicius, and
later sources like Sir Hugh Plat. They all describe smoking meats over
an all-purpose cooking fire, and by hanging sausages up in the chimney,
in the case of Plat. Obviously this suggests that these recipes aren't
intended for mass production. I seem to have misplaced my copy of Le
Menagier de Paris, so I can't tell you if there's a description of the
smoking process there.

Much as I hate to do it, I recommend you check some modern sources on
the subject. Apart from the occasional suggestion that some kind of
anti-oxidant or preservative other than salt be included in some of the
pre-smoking cures, at least we have a fair sense that the modern process
is pretty similar to the period one in most cases, but also probably
safer in the long run. Generally you know when something has been cured
and smoke-dried enough when insects don't try to land on it (smoke tars
repel them), and when it has lost a certain amount of water weight
(generally about half, in the case of meats).

Adamantius


Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 00:08:54 -0400
From: "Robert Newmyer" <rnewmyer at epix.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Ready to smoke!

Sorry no recipes but I have found a good source for smoking and
sausage-making supplies:

The Sausagemaker
1500 Clinton Street, Bldg. 123
Buffalo, NY 14206
Phone: 716-824-6510

Also this site sells smoking chips, sounds very interesting. 
Woodbridge and Vintage Barrel Chips - made exclusively from recycled 100%
American French Oak wine barrels, which for years have been used in the
aging of fine wines.

http://www.woodbridgechips.com/

						     Griffith Allt y Genlli
                                         Bob Newmyer
                                         rnewmyer at epix.net
                                         http://www.epix.net/~rnewmyer


Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 06:02:54 -0500
From: Maddie Teller-Kook <meadhbh at io.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Ready to smoke!

When ever I smoke meat, I use either hickory or mesquite chunks that are
well soaked to produce lots of smoke..  I put a pan of water under the
meat to help keep it moist and also to flavor the meat. I've used wine
or beer with herbs (usually fresh rosemary, oregano, thyme, etc).  I
have also just taken large twigs of rosemary and placed them on the
coals.  I slow cook the meat (especially brisket) for at least 6-8
hours.  This is how its done here in Ansteorra. (aka Texas)

meadhbh


Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 08:05:51 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Par Leijonhufvud <parlei at algonet.se>
Subject: Re: SC - Re: Sweet jerky recipe

On Wed, 15 Jul 1998, Korrin S DaArdain wrote:
> A "li'l smoker" or a dehydrator uses heat that will "cook" the meat. My
> dehydrator uses the maximum setting of 145F for making jerky. I think a
> smoker would be even hotter (Don't know, Don't have one). My book on
> dried foods says that 140F is the minimum heat required for the first 3
> to 4 hours and that would likely kill the nasty "wee-beastie's".

The temperature depends on whether you want to dry-smoke the meat for
longer lasting, or smoke it as a method of cooking. The latter can be at
higher temperatures, while the former must be at low temps (about what
you give, I'd say).

/UlfR


Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:58:46 -0400
From: "Nick Sasso" <njs at mccalla.com>
Subject: SC - Gas Grill Smoking (long)

        Niccolo wrote:
        On a different subject, I have had great success recently with
smoking on my gas grill.  I did 12 # of pork shoulder as well as 12 # of pork
sausage that I stuffed using the Le Menagier 'recipe'.  It took about 3
hours to hot smoke the sausages and another 4 hours for the pork hunks (too
small a grill to do all at once).  Apple smoke is the bomb for pork!!
        <<<<<SNIP>>>>>

Sounds delicious. How did you smoke them on the grill?

Al Vostro e al Servizio del Sogno
Lucretzia
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Lady Lucrezia-Isabella di Freccia   |  mka Tina Nevin

Goode Lady,

I am most pleased to offer what I have learned in using modern grilling equipment to smoke meats and anything else one wants to smoke: peppers, crawdads, watermelon, Moors, Jesuits, etc.

items needed:  grill thermometer, food, gas grill with at least two burners, wood chips, aluminum foil or smoker box, disposable aluminum baking pan that will fit in half of grill, boiling water, meat thermometer.

The key is indirect heating setup.  On my gas grill, I have a right and left burner.  This is so terribly convenient, and can still be done with front and back burner elements with some effort.  You only use one burner (on mine it was the one on the left as it is the one that goes right to the gas), and the food is on the grill away from the heating element.

1) Put the disposable aluminum roasting/baking pan rectangular in shape on the side of the grill I will call COLD.  The burner will not be lit on that side.  Fill it with boiling water. . . it must be hot water or the grill heat will be sucked up in heating the water rather than you food.  This should be checked periodically to keep water in as it is the heat regulator that keeps your grill from making charcoal.

2)  Turn on your one burner on the HOT side on high and let it heat the grill for 15 minutes (your milage may vary).

3)  While grill is heating, prepare the wood chips.  You have two options to maximize the smoke from your chips:  a.  soak 2 cups chips for twenty minutes in water to cover and wrap in small package of aluminum foil with several air/smoke holes poked in. . . place this close to heat element, right on the rock grate or whatever is down under food grate;  b.  place 2 cups dry woodchips in same aluminum package and place on the cooking grill on the HOT side.  Either method will keep the wood from burning up and produce a slow smolder that gives lots of smoke.  I recommend Apple or Hickory for most meats.  You will want about 1 gallon of wood chips (no idea how many cubic inches that is, sorry).

4)  When the grill is preheated, turn the burner down to medium or so and put the food to be smoked on the COLD side over the water pan.  You want to keep the temperature around 200-220F (use your grill thermometer to keep it in this range) in order to move the food exterior through the danger zone quickly enough and still slow cook your meat (the water vapor keeps the environment moist).  after about the first 45 minutes I add a wood chip package to the HOT side of the grill grate, same level as food (or below the grate if using wet chips).   It can take a few minutes for smoke to start (10 or so).

5)  Add a new wood package about every 45 minutes when smoke begins to thin.  My 12 at  of link sausages were on three levelrack and smoked about 3 1/2 hours.  Your meat thermometer will be indispensable for smoking meats.  Check the interneal temperatures for doneness.  The three racks of spare ribs were about 4 hours (dry rub and apple smoked).  Large, thick pieces of meat will need far longer times.

These are the fundamentals of smoking on gas grills.  Same principles apply when using charcoal or wood, just doifferent applications like banking the coals and putting the soaked chips and/or chunks directly on the coals.  An interesting link on the web is http://barbecuen.com/     It offers a wide range of reading on cooking and equipment.
I hope this has been of help in getting started.  There is lots more to discuss what with gelatinization of callogen tissues, moiture retention and saucing. . .oh my!!

niccolo difrancesco


Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 10:24:25 -0500
From: "RANDALL DIAMOND" <ringofkings at mindspring.com>
Subject: SC - RE: Period cookshop at Pennsic?

The question is asked:  >>>What is the volume
 you can expect from such a rotisserie? You can 
only cook how many chickens at once. And if 
you serve half-chickens how many is this? Even 
if you can cook 12 chickens at once, giving 24 
servings, they take a while to cook. I don't think 
this is feasible, although the idea is nice.<<<

The way the large numbers of chickens/ whatever
to cook for large numbers of people is being handled
in a very different way at Glaedenfeld Centre. We are
building a Scandinavian late period smokehouse (at
least the folks who designed it say it is period, I haven't
seen the docs on it yet) to cook as many as we need.
The fellow who came up with this builds period saunas
and happened to mention that they used similar structures
for cooking.  I jumped on him for details rather quickly.
The one we are considering (after I ok it as reasonably
period) will have two chambers each about the size of
one of the HC access port-o-johns.  One will be for slow
smoke foods like hams, sausages, traditional smokehouse
stuff.  The other will be running much hotter and will have
hanging racks/ spits for lots and lots of birds and pierced
racks for things like whole trout or salmon.  A drip pan will 
cover most of the tile floor.  This would cook exactly like the
yuppified smokers you can get at any Gaulmart.
I think that this kind of setup at Pennsic would be ideal.
With spit roasting you often get dry meat on the outside
and half cooked on the inside when you are dealing with
any quantities due to the unevenness of the heat.  The
wet heat of the smoke will cook very evenly and when one is
done, they all are.  You should be able to cook 200 or more 
birds in one of these at a time without the problems of
an open flame and having to turn everything constantly.
It works largely like a convection oven with smoke added.
If you are cooking all the same fowl, you should have a 
drip pan full of fats and juices for seasoning/ flavouring
rice or something as well.   I think this method of cooking 
would be extremely suited for Pennsic type cooking.  Using
apple or pear wood would make some yummy birds and it
is mundane enough (but period) to appeal to most folks.

Akim Yaroslavich


Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 07:18:41 -0400
From: "Phil Troy/ G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] period smoke houses?
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Also sprach Stefan li Rous:
> What do we know about period smoke houses? Do we have any still
> existing ones? Or diagrams, pictures or illuminations? Do we have
> any written information on them that might, for instance, tell us
> which woods they used or preferred to use?
>
> I know we have records from the 19th and 18th centuries. We have a
> re-created farm community here called Pioneer Farms, which has one.

At the risk of giving what appears to be a maddeningly frustrating
non-answer, I'll point out that much of the culture, overall, of the
earliest settlements of the US in places like Virginia, has remained
largely unchanged (at least, certain aspects of it) from 17th-century
England. I suspect some of the smokehouse designs seen in The Foxfire
Books are pretty similar to designs used in period.

On the other hand, to add to the mix, it also seems likely that there
might have been fewer dedicated smokehouses in period Europe than
there were in early American settlements, or even today, both because
salting was so necessary a preserving process that many foods were
salted and left at that. These people were probably not smoking their
foods for flavor, generally, and I doubt the particular climate and
insect population (the creosote layer acquired by smoked meats is an
insect repellant) justified using fuel for such a frivolous purpose.
Surely the period recipe corpus, in general, refers frequently to
salted and, less frequently, pickled, meats, and not often, if at
all, to smoked foods. In fact, if you look at recipes which go into
detail on ways to keep the smoke off a given food, it suggests that
at least some period cultures might have viewed smoky meats as
something to be avoided.

But we know they did it: there are both Roman and 17th-century
recipes that call for hanging foods up to smoke in the kitchen fire
or chimney. It may be that the smoke is incidental, and that the
warm, dry, updraft is the aspect of the process these cooks were
going for.

I think, for what you're looking for, we would need a period book on
pig farming for a really detailed description.

Adamantius


Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 11:32:00 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] period smoke houses?
To: "'sca-cooks at ansteorra.org'" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Taking a quick look at some of the online references to smoking meat, I
think that no one has taken a serious look at the subject of when, where and
how meat was smoked between the late Roman Empire and the Early Modern
Periods.  What do we know about the subject?  What are the references?

Charlemagne's Capitulary De Vilis contains a reference to smoked meat and
the inventory of Asnapium, one of Charlemagne's estates, references 10 sides
from last year which may be salted or smoked meats.  A kitchen is referenced
in the inventory, but no smokehouse.  Since the separate buildings are
inventoried, if there is a smokehouse present, it is probably and adjunct of
the kitchen.

A quick run through half a dozen primary sources on households hasn't
yielded any more.  This may turn into an interesting research project.

Bear

> <clipped>
> Surely the period recipe corpus, in general, refers frequently to
> salted and, less frequently, pickled, meats, and not often, if at
> all, to smoked foods. In fact, if you look at recipes which go into
> detail on ways to keep the smoke off a given food, it suggests that
> at least some period cultures might have viewed smoky meats as
> something to be avoided.
>
> But we know they did it: there are both Roman and 17th-century
> recipes that call for hanging foods up to smoke in the kitchen fire
> or chimney. It may be that the smoke is incidental, and that the
> warm, dry, updraft is the aspect of the process these cooks were
> going for.
>
> I think, for what you're looking for, we would need a period book on
> pig farming for a really detailed description.
>
> Adamantius


Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:10:57 -0700
From: "Lorenz Wieland" <lorenz_wieland at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] period smoke houses?
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Decker, Terry D. wrote:
> Taking a quick look at some of the online references to smoking meat,
> I think that no one has taken a serious look at the subject of when,
> where and how meat was smoked between the late Roman Empire and the
> Early Modern Periods.  What do we know about the subject?  What are
> the references?

I'm starting work on a Beowulf-themed feast, and I've found at least one
reconstructed Viking-era smokehouse:

http://www.foteviken.se/engelsk/art_english/e_viking_art17e.htm

A few other non-primary sources (the primaries they reference are in Swedish
and Norwegian) seem to agree that this design is correct for early period
Northern Europe.

-Lorenz


Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 18:37:01 -0400
From: Alex Clark <alexbclark at pennswoods.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] period smoke houses?
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

At 10:54 PM 9/10/2003 -0500, Stefan wrote:
> I thought some of the fish was smoked. Or was this just dried? . . .

According to Janet Hinson's translation of _Le Menagier de Paris_, salmon
should be smoked; (p. M-28) James Prescott's translation of the very
similar entry for salmon in _le Viandier_ agrees about smoking, though the
next phrase seems to disagree with Hinson's translation (30). _Le Menagier_
also says that pork sausage should be smoked for four days or more. (M-44)
This is from the odds and ends that I just reread today; I don't know if
there might be other foods in these books that were also supposed to be 
smoked.

(The phrase after the bit about smoking is "and leave the backbone in for
roasting" in Hinson's _Menagier_ and "keep the chine for roasting" in
Prescott's _Viandier_.)

Hinson, Janet (translator). _Le Menagier de Paris_. Part of _A Collection
of Medieval and Renaissance Cookbooks_. Cariadoc, 1988.

Prescott, James (translator). _le Viandier de Taillevent_. Alfarhaugr, 
1988.

Henry of Maldon/Alex Clark


Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 23:00:16 -0700
From: david friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] period smoke houses?
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Stefan asked about smokehouses and Adamantius replied:
> ...
> But we know they did it: there are both Roman and 17th-century
> recipes that call for hanging foods up to smoke in the kitchen fire
> or chimney. It may be that the smoke is incidental, and that the
> warm, dry, updraft is the aspect of the process these cooks were
> going for.
>
> I think, for what you're looking for, we would need a period book on
> pig farming for a really detailed description.

Here are a few relevant bits from Le Menagier:

To Salt Beef Tongues. In the right season for salting, take a
quantity of beef tongues and parboil them a little, then take them
out and skin them, then salt them one after another, and lay them in
salt for eight days or ten, then hang them in the fireplace, leaving
them there for the winter: then hang them in a dry place, for one
year or two or three or four.
-------
In Gascony, when it begins to get cold, they buy the tongues, parboil
and skin them, and then salt them one on top of another in a salting
tub and leave then eight days, then hang them in the chimney all
winter and in summer, as above, dry; and they will keep thus for ten
years. And then they are cooked in water and wine if you wish, and
eaten with mustard.
------
To Make Sausages. When you have killed your pig, take some chops,
first from the part they call the filet, and then take some chops
from the other side and some of the best fat, as much of the one as
of the other, enough to make as many sausages as you need; and have
it finely chopped and ground by a pastry-cook. Then grind fennel and
a little fine salt, and then take your ground fennel, and mix
thoroughly with a quart of powdered spices; then mix your meat, your
spices and your fennel thoroughly together, and then fill the guts,
that is to say, the small gut. (And know that the guts of an old
porker are better for this purpose than those of a young pig, because
they are larger.) And after this, smoke them for four days or more,
and when you want to eat them, put them in hot water and bring just
to boiling, and then put on the grill.
------

Elizabeth of Dendermonde/Betty Cook


Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 13:24:36 -0400
From: "Phil Troy/ G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] period smoke houses?
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Also sprach Olwen the Odd:
>> To some extent, these snippets kind of demonstrate my point, which
>> is that the concept of building a smokehouse specifically for the
>> preservation of meat might have been an unknown, or at least an
>> unusual, concept, for many Europeans in period. Note that the
>> tongue recipes don't even mention the word "smoke" (although the
>> meat acquiring some degree of smoke flavoring seems pretty likely
>> in the process). But I still think that smoking, in a smokehouse,
>> is the result of a particular combination of climate, the need to
>> process a relatively large amount of meat, and insect population,
>> and that not every period European culture shows that combination.
>>
>> Adamantius
>
> Then how do you account for the viking smokehouses?
> Olwen

High humidity, a plentiful fuel supply (if not lumber; remember the
Vikings largely deforested Ireland to build ships); possibly a
particular type of insect problem some other parts of Europe didn't
exactly share. And it's still possible that the Viking smokehouses
were in fact intended for drying, like an oasthouse used for malt or
hop drying, and the smoke factor may have been incidental, where, for
example, the smoke in the smokehouses in, say, Smithfield, clearly is
an effect deliberately tried for.

But even so, I never said that smoking wasn't done, I just said it
may not have been as universal as someone researching food
preservation in a refrigeration-less period Europe might be led to
assume. There are lots of preservation methods these people had the
technology to do, but that doesn't necessarily mean they did them.

Even something so seemingly obvious as some of the salting techniques
we take for granted now were apparently developed in period, and the
imposition of fish days and Lenten observances might have been very
different without them; one might say that Basquaise fishermen, and
later, the Hanseatic League, made Lent possible for the rest of
Europe, but we just can't assume that the techniques they used were
applied universally. Not everyone had the need or the means.

Adamantius


Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 12:28:41 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] period smoke houses?
To: "'sca-cooks at ansteorra.org'" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

>> But I still think that smoking, in a
>> smokehouse, is the result of a particular combination of climate, the need
>> to process a relatively large amount of meat, and insect population, and
>> that not every period European culture shows that combination.
>>
>> Adamantius
>
> Then how do you account for the viking smokehouses?
> Olwen

During the summer, sub-arctic regions have more insect life than a
Mississippi swamp.  I've been both places and will attest to the fact.

If you smoke meat other than summer, then you need some kind of structure to
retain the heat.  The colder the weather, the faster the heat dissipates.

Bear


Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 06:57:52 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] period smoke houses?
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> But if you are only smoking the meat and not drying it, why do you need
> to retain the heat? I can see where you probably need something to
> retain the smoke, though. Or is it always a process of either drying
> and smoking the meat or drying it only but never smoking it only?
> Stefan
> --------
> THLord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra

The heat is an integral part of the smoking process.  It reduces moisture
and fat thereby improving the odds against spoilage and kills bacteria.
Roughly the same as drying meat.

Smoking adds a crust and the smoke flavor.

Bear


From: "widener" <wideners at hilconet.com>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] period smoke houses?
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 11:34:58 -0500

Heat is not necessary to smoke meat and smoke is best absorbed by meat at
around 55 degrees. That is why you slaughter on the first cold day of
Autumn. Also the brining process was an intergral part of preserving the
meat. It was neccessary to boil hams before eating them to remove the salt.
A smoked salted ham braised with mirapoix veges and a lot of red wine makes a
flavorful mild meat. I don't know about the anti-bacterial nature of smoke
by itself but it seems to work. Plus you are using a whole muscle meat with
only surface exposure to bacteria.

Bro Stephon


Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:53:16 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] period smoke houses?
To: "'sca-cooks at ansteorra.org'" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

I've never encountered an operating smoke house that was anywhere near 
55 degrees.

Smoke houses are designed for "cold smoking."  The temperature of the heat
source is normally around 180-200 degrees F and the meat is left to smoke
until it reaches an internal termperature of around 160 degrees F.  The
smoke coats the meat rather than is absorbed by the meat.  Heat kills the
bacteria, cooks and dehydrates the meat (especially the outer layer).  
Smoke builds a crust.

The back yard smoker is for "hot smoking".  The heat source is 225-300
degrees F.  The meat, depending of type, is brought to standard internal
temperatures of 145-180 degrees F.  In hot smoking, the meat is not
adequately smoked for preservation and needs to be refrigerated.

In either case, the air temperature by the meat must be at or above the
internal temperature of the meat.

Bear


Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 17:20:06 -0400
From: "Phil Troy/ G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] period smoke houses?
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Also sprach Decker, Terry D.:
> I've never encountered an operating smoke house that was anywhere near 
> 55 degrees.
>
> Smoke houses are designed for "cold smoking."  The temperature of the heat
> source is normally around 180-200 degrees F and the meat is left to smoke
> until it reaches an internal termperature of around 160 degrees F.  The
> smoke coats the meat rather than is absorbed by the meat.  Heat kills the
> bacteria, cooks and dehydrates the meat (especially the outer layer).  
> Smoke builds a crust.

Huh. You sure about that? One of the reasons you couldn't, until
recently, import real prosciutto di Parma into the U.S. was that it
was raw. Same for (I think it is) Westphalian ham and a number of
others. Serrano, etc.; I don't recall if the laws have changed or if
the stuff is irradiated now. I can't see Smithfield ham having the
soft translucency it has if it is cooked...

I do think surface dehydration is an issue, though. Hams like
prosciutto are air-dried in the curing process, but the aging they go
through is sufficient to, after the moisture has more or less
equalized throughout the joint (if you can call a boned ham a joint)
to give it that slightly waxy texture throughout.

> The back yard smoker is for "hot smoking."  The heat source is 225-300
> degrees F.  The meat, depending of type, is brought to standard 
> internal
> temperatures of 145-180 degrees F.  In hot smoking, the meat is not
> adequately smoked for preservation and needs to be refrigerated.
>
> In either case, the air temperature by the meat must be at or above the
> internal temperature of the meat.

Well, yeah, otherwise the meat is heating the air, and not vice
versa. I'm reminded of the old joke (my Dad was of an age to have
witnessed vaudeville firsthand, and it tends to color my speech,
more's the pity) about the young wife who tried to boil water by
putting the pan in the oven set for 212.

Badda boom, badda bing!

Adamantius


Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:38:51 -0700
From: "Lorenz Wieland" <lorenz_wieland at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] period smoke houses?
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Phil Troy/ G. Tacitus Adamantius wrote:
> Also sprach Decker, Terry D.:
>> I've never encountered an operating smoke house that was anywhere
>> near 55 degrees.
>>
>> Smoke houses are designed for "cold smoking."  The temperature of
>> the heat source is normally around 180-200 degrees F and the meat is
>> left to smoke until it reaches an internal termperature of around
>> 160 degrees F.  The smoke coats the meat rather than is absorbed by
>> the meat.  Heat kills the bacteria, cooks and dehydrates the meat
>> (especially the outer layer).  Smoke builds a crust.
>
> Huh. You sure about that? One of the reasons you couldn't, until
> recently, import real prosciutto di Parma into the U.S. was that it
> was raw. Same for (I think it is) Westphalian ham and a number of
> others. Serrano, etc.; I don't recall if the laws have changed or if
> the stuff is irradiated now. I can't see Smithfield ham having the
> soft translucency it has if it is cooked...

I've seen the term "cold smoking" used both ways.  U.S. barbecuers often use
the term to refer to cooking meats (usually pork or beef) over smoke at over
100 degrees farenheit.  This results in cooked, smoked meat.

In other contexts, cold smoking means drying and smoking meat at under 90
degrees farenheit.  This results in preserved smoked meat that isn't cooked,
like Smithfield ham, nova salmon, and proscuitto, as you correctly point out.

Epicurious goes with the second definition:

"Smoke-curing is generally done in one of two ways. The cold-smoking method
(which can take up to a month, depending on the food) smokes the food at
between 70° to 90°F. Hot-smoking partially or totally cooks the food by
treating it at temperatures ranging from 100° to 190°F."

Another article on this here: http://www.ochef.com/26.htm

-Lorenz


Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 22:55:19 -0400
From: "Phlip" <phlip at 99main.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: smoking meat
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> It just occurred to me that in a stove wood doesn't start to burn until it
> is over 212 degrees F and that it begins emitting smoke about 300 degrees F.
> Oxidation is somewhere around 500 degrees F, IIRC.
>
> That means that the source of the smoke in a smoke house needs to be close
> to 300 degrees F and that over time it will attempt to raise the temperature
> of its surroundings to that level.  Hmmm, I need a smokehouse and a bunch of
> thermocouples for a little research into "Thermal Efficiencies of
> Carbonaceous Vapor Dehydration Structures."
>
> Bear

Bear, the temperature at which wood burns is incidental- although if you
think a minute, paper burns at 451 f. Now why would I expect you to know
something embedded in the culture like that?

;-)

What happens with a cool smoker is that the smoky wood burns, yes, but aside
from and below the foods to be cool smoked. It's quite possible to enter one
and check on the foods- it's warm, but not terribly warm- just hold your
breath. A properly set up smoker has the drafts set up so that the smoke
cools before it contacts the foods being smoked. If the smoke ISN'T cooled,
the whole thing would burn down, since most are made of cheap wood on a
cinderblock base.

Saint Phlip,


From: "Phlip" <phlip at 99main.com>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: smoking meat
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 08:57:47 -0400

> A thermally efficient building would rise to just below the temperature of
> the heat source (a thermal mass oven?).  As you point out, smokehouses
> aren't thermally efficient.  The meat is hung at a distance above the heat
> source so the surface temperature of the meat is probably a function of the
> inverse square of the distance with a number of other variables tossed in.
>
> Color me weird, but I think it would be fun to measure the temperature of
> the heat source and the surface and internal temperature of the meat in a
> smokehouse to study the process and check the various numbers that are  
> out there.
>
> Bear

Honestly, Bear, I suspect the temperature of the heat source is incidental-
once it reaches a critical temperature, the temperature for the fuel to both
emit smoke and to maintain a self-sustaining fire (fuel being added as
necessary, of course) you're set. After that, you need sufficient distance
to maintain the foodstuffs at a preferred temperature. I'm sure there's a
formula, but the folks I know who use smokehouses do it by experience.

Most recommendations for smoking fires are for a small, hot fire, made of
fruitwood- the major difference in a smoking fire for Smithfield hams is
that corn cobs are added for flavor. What IS important, is making the fire
hot enough that there isn't _too much_ smoke- otherwise, you might as  
well dip the foods in creosote, and be done with it.

Part of the reason for the long, slow smoking is to give the flavoring
elements an opportunity to penetrate the meat fibers. If you notice, most
foods which are hot-smoked have the flavor on the outside, whereas properly
cool-smoked foods have the flavor throughout- and I'm not just talking  
the salt from the preparatory brine soak.

Fires are funny things- they may _start_ at a certain minimum temperature,
but differences in fuel and air input can make wide differences in the
amount of heat they put out. As an example, coal generally burns hotter than
wood or charcoal, all things being equal. During my pilgrimages with my
forge this summer, the most frequently asked question I got from people
visiting my forge, was if my preferred fuel, charcoal, would get hot enough
to weld. Not only was I welding on that fire, but my usual method of
disposing of little bits of scrap steel, useless for any application, was to
throw it into the fire and burn it up, thus avoiding leaving trash  
around at my sites.

The difference between the fire most of you use on your barbecues, and my
barbecue-with-an-attitude (as I called it, to relieve the minds of nervous
autocrats and site owners) is that I was forcing air into the fire, and
increasing the temps from about 500 f to about 2000 f. And, of course, I had
them all bewildered when simultaneously heating my coffee pot over the fire
without burning it ;-)

Incidently, as Adamantius was mentioning smoking jalepenos to make them
chipotles- that's another cool-smoke method, intended for preservation,
although, obviously, it takes much less time to smoke a few peppers than an
entire ham. The reason chipotles are smoked is because of their fleshy
nature. Most hot peppers are fairly thin fleshed, and can be easily
sun-dried. Chipotles, however, because of their thicker flesh can't be,
without risking molds and such invading them during the drying period.

Saint Phlip,
CoDoLDS


Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 09:33:53 -0400
From: "Avraham haRofeh of Sudentur" <goldbergr1 at cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: smoking meat
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> What happens with a cool smoker is that the smoky wood burns, yes, but aside
> from and below the foods to be cool smoked. It's quite possible to enter one
> and check on the foods- it's warm, but not terribly warm- just hold your
> breath. A properly set up smoker has the drafts set up so that the smoke
> cools before it contacts the foods being smoked. If the smoke ISN'T cooled,
> the whole thing would burn down, since most are made of cheap wood on a
> cinderblock base.

Alton Brown suggests a two-chamber setup for a cold smoker, with the firebox
set to one side, and connected to the smokebox with vent ducting and a small
fan. http://www.goodeatsfanpage.com/Season5/EA1E12.htm

Avraham

*******************************************************
Reb Avraham haRofeh of Sudentur
      (mka Randy Goldberg MD)


Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 04:42:56 -0400
From: James May <james.may at mchsi.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Smoked fish and meat--questions
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

>>   How about the commercially packaged smoked salmon?
> Any experience on how long it keeps without refrigeration?
I've bought it at Sam's club, in a wooden case, that had been 
In the store for months with no ill effects.

Jehan Yves


Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 23:29:22 -0400
From: "Christine Seelye-King" <kingstaste at mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] Smoked fish and meat--questions
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

  I had some smoked salmon jerky that was shelf-stable and kept for a couple
of years (we ate most of it right away, then it got put away and forgotten
for a while.  When we found it again, it was still fine). I just threw it
away, but because I love you guys, I just went and dug it out of the  
trash.
:)
The package reads:
SnackMasters California Style Natural Salmon Jerky - Hickory smoked flavor
Added. Sliced from solid fillets of salmon 97% Fat Free.
Ingredients: Solid Fillet of Salmon, Worcestershire Sauce (water, corn
syrup, vinegar, molasses, hydrolyzed soybean dna wheat protein, salt,
caramel, spices, dehydrated garlic, dehydrated onion, tumeric, flavors), Soy
Sauce (water, wheat, soybean, salt), water, Liquid Smoke, Honey, Vinegar,
Pepper (black), garlic powder, spices.

For additional information please write or call:
SNACKMASTERS
P.O. Box 70
Ceres, CA 95307
(209)537-9770

Christianna


Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:45:56 +0000
From: "Olwen the Odd" <olwentheodd at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Smokehouses
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

> I am in the process of reorganizing my backyard.  I can get access to
> limestone/granite stones and would like to build a small medieval-like
> smokeouse.
>
> Has anyone seen any pictures or diagrams somewhere on the net?
>
> Kateryn de Develyn
> Barony of Coeur d'Ennui
> Kingdom of Calontir

Look here for one example:
http://www.foteviken.se/engelsk/art_english/e_viking_art17e.htm


Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 06:27:36 -0500
From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius"
	<adamantius.magister at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Smoking
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Also sprach David Friedman:
> Have you, or anyone here, experimented with smoking as a method of
> preservation? Nowadays it seems to be mostly just for flavor--and
> you specified putting your sausages in the freezer. It would be very
> nice if we could use it as one more way of solving the problem of
> having food at Pennsic without a cooler.

This is a conjectural response, but I'm sure it would work if done
right. The typical one-two-three punch often dealt to spoilage when
curing and smoking foods is that salt (and sometimes sugar) retards
certain bacteria growth, a reduced moisture level (drying is
frequently a byproduct of smoking, or smokeless drying can be used
independently, as with prosciutto and hard salamis) also retards
bacteria and mold growth, while both pepper and the various tars and
creosote associated with smoking retard insect infestation (well,
what did you expect when you hang your ham or sausage up in a cave or
a dark, unsecure shed?).

So, that said, I've never cured, smoked and dried a food for long
preservation without expecting to use refrigeration, but the
technology is, and has been for centuries, out there. The process for
making, say, Smithfield Ham, which is salted, treated with pepper
(I'm pretty sure), and cold-smoked/dried until it has lost at least
30% of its weight in water mass, is pretty much designed to keep a
meat product free of bacteria, molds, and maggots, and the process
pretty clearly works. On the other hand, I don't think even that
process was tailor-made for working in the kind of temperatures
commonly found at Pennsic. I think rancidity of fats might become an
issue, but probably some of the really skinny dried sausages, such as
Polska kabanosy (a specific kielbasa variant which is thin and
generally eaten fairly dry, and looking a little like a Slim Jim, and
a.k.a. a TV Kielabasa), or some of the North African merguez
variants, which are both lean and well-dried in finished form, might
work well. Maybe some kind of bastourma (a cured beef product which
appears to be the Turkish ancestor of pastrami) would work for
Pennsic conditions.  I know I've brought kabanosy to events like the
Southern Region War Camp in Eisental -- not quite as warm as Pennsic,
nor as high up, but not that far from it -- and kept them for up to
48 hours without refrigeration and no ill effects after eating them.
I'm sure they would keep for longer, but for how much longer, I don't
know.

Overall, I think a region's conditions cause the predominant
preservation method to evolve in a certain way. Northern Europe,
whose ambient air temperatures rarely get much higher than the 80's
Fahrenheit, also has/had enough lumber or other ignitable plant
matter (including peat, turf, straw, etc.) to make smoking a natural
product of both need and expedience. Desert climates which might lack
the kinds of fuels used in smoking might also lack some of the insect
life that makes such smoking necessary. Yes, I know there are flies
and maggots in the desert, but still.

Adamantius


Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 16:18:35 -0500
From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius"
	<adamantius.magister at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Smoking frozen meat
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Also sprach MD Smith:
> I scored an 8.68 at  picnic shoulder of pork at the market this
> morning. It's currently in the deep freezer - which is warmer than
> today's outside temperature.
>
> Can this thing be thawed and cold smoked, or should it be hot
> smoked? This won't happen until April or May at the earliest.

I'd hot-smoke it, treat it like barbecue or pernil al horno... I'm
not sure how the water-loss brought on by freezing and thawing will
affect its ability to remain fresh in the smoke, if you cold-smoked
it.

Adamantius, on a big pernil al horno kick lately...


Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2005 22:14:53 -0500
From: "Denise Wolff" <scadian at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] smoking sausages inyour fireplace
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

> From: Stefan li Rous <StefanliRous at austin.rr.com>
> Andrea,
> I'd be interested in more details about how you managed to smoke your
> sausages in your fireplace. I know that this was done in period, but most
> fireplaces these days are built as ornaments and "atmosphere". Not
> something so utilitarian as cooking or food smoking.
> Did you have to modify or add anything to your fireplace to do this?  How
> did you keep the rest of the house from smelling like a smokehouse?  What
> kinds of wood did you use? Or are you referring to an outside fireplace
> rather than one inside your living room?
> Stefan

Well. It should be said that I'm a bit crazy.. (see previous notes from me).
I often cook in my inside fireplace for experiments. My previous house had a
fireplace I used, but this new house has a better one.

I have a medium to large size  stone fireplace (Adirondack/Dutch cottage
style - I live in a heavily Dutch colonial area in the Hudson Valley of New
York). The fireplace dominates the living room. It has a clearance of about 3
and 1/2 feet high with a depth about 3 feet and width about four feet.  It
has a stone floor with a red ceramic tile floor front ( to drag out coal
ash). It draws well, so there was little smoke in the house.

I have the pleasure of a deeply wooded area next door and a previous tenant
who left a mountain of good old apple wood to burn. I built the fire on one
side of the fireplace and placed the sausages on a rack at the other end. I
enclosed the sausages on three sides with metal trays to keep in the smoke,
while allowing the smoke out the back (and up the chimney instead of into
the house). I built the fire in small amounts and worked for coals to
smolder. I added wood as the coals died out keeping the fire to smolder
level... no bright flame. I kept this up for 10 hours.

I will say that when I was done, all I could smell on me was smoke, but the
sausages turned out quite wonderful. I can't wait to share them next week.

I have an old picture of me cooking in front of the previous fireplace, and
I took some yesterday of my experiment (I don't have digital though, it  
will be a while before I get them posted)

http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/sca-authenticcooks/vwp?.dir=/Andrea+Attempts+Medieval+Mindset+Cooking&.src=gr&.dnm=Cooking+in+my+fireplace.jpg&.view=t&.done=http%3a//photos.groups.yahoo.com/roup/sca-authenticcooks/lst%3f%26.dir=/Andrea%2bAttempts%2bMedieval%2bMindset%2bCooking%26.src=gr%26.view=t

It was alot of fun, and I learned I could do it. It felt really cool to  do it the way our ancestors did it.

Andrea MacIntyre


Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2006 11:52:15 -0700
From: "Dan Brewer" <danqualman at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] preparing foods at tourney side over
	braziers-OT
To: "'Cooks within the SCA'" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Some information on smoking fish
Dan in Auburn

Parasites In Fish
Freshwater and marine fish naturally contain many parasites. These parasites
are killed during the hot-smoking process, if the temperature reaches 140F.
Use commercially frozen fish for cold-smoked fish and lox, or freeze the
fish to -10F for at least 7 days to kill any parasites that may be present.
Freezing to -10?F is not possible in most home freezers.

Smoking Tips
Any fish can be smoked, but species high in fat (oil) such as salmon and
trout are recommended because they absorb smoke faster and have better
texture than lean fish, which tend to be dry and tough after smoking.

Use seasoned non-resinous woods: hickory, oak, apple, maple, birch, beech,
or alder. Avoid: pine, fir, spruce, etc. or green woods. If heavier smoke
flavor is desired, add moist sawdust to the heat source throughout the
smoking process.

Control heat by adjusting air flow.

Control temperature:

     * Hot-smoking--90?F for the first 2 hours; 150?F for remaining smoking time
     * Cold-smoking--80-90?F for 1-5 days or more
     * Lox--70-80?F for 1-3 days

Preparing Fish For Smoking
Use only freshly-caught fish that have been kept clean and cold. Fish that
have been handled carelessly or stored under improper conditions will not
produce a satisfactory finished product. Do not use bruised, broken, or
otherwise damaged flesh.

If you catch your fish, clean and pack them in ice before starting home.
When you get home, store the fish in the refrigerator until you are ready to
prepare them for smoking.

Different fish species generally require specific preparation methods.
Salmon are split (backbone removed); bottom fish filleted; herring headed
and gutted, and smelt dressed. The following preparation steps can be
applied to any fish:

    1. Remove scales by scraping against the grain with the dull edge of a
knife.
    2. Remove head, fins, tail, viscera.
    3. Wash body cavity with running cold water to remove all traces of blood
and kidney tissue (dark red mass along the backbone).
    4. Split the fish by cutting through the rib bones along the length of
one side of the backbone.
    5. For large fish, remove the backbone by cutting along the other side of
the backbone to produce two fillets or boneless sides. For small fish, the
backbone can be left attached to one of the sides.
    6. Cut the sides of large fish into uniform pieces about 1 1/2 inches thick
and 2 inches wide. Small fish halves can be brined and smoked in one  
piece.

Preparing Brine
Prepare a brine of 3? cups table salt in 1 gallon of cold water in a
plastic, stainless steel, or crockery container. Red or white wine can be
substituted for a portion or all of the water, if desired. Stir the salt
until a saturated solution is formed.

Spices such as black pepper, bay leaves, seafood seasoning, or garlic, as
well as brown sugar, may be added to the brine depending on your preference.

Use 1 gallon of brine for every 4 pounds of fish. Brine fish in the
refrigerator, if possible.

Keep the fish covered with brine throughout the brining period. A heavy bowl
can be floated on the brine to keep the fish submersed, but do not pack the
fish so tightly that the brine cannot circulate around each piece.

Cold-Smoking

    1. To cold-smoke fish, follow steps 1-6 under "Preparing Fish for Smoking."
    2. Brine ?-inch-thick fillets for ? hour; 1-inch-thick fillets for 1
hour; and 1?-inch-thick fillets for 2 hours. Brining times can be lengthened
if the cold-smoked fish are to be preserved for long periods of time.
    3. After brining, rinse the fish briefly in cold running water.
    4. Place the fish skin-side down on greased racks in a cool shady, breezy
place to dry. The fish should dry for 2 to 3 hours or until a shiny skin or
pellicle has formed on the surface. A fan will speed pellicle formation.
    5. Place the fish in a homemade or commercial smoker. The temperature of
the smoker should be kept at about 80?F, and should never exceed 90F. If a
thermometer is not available, the temperature may be tested by hand.  If the
air in the smoke-house feels distinctly warm, the temperature is too high.
    6. Smoke the fish until its surface is an even brown. Small fish that are
to be kept 2 weeks or less may be ready in 24 hours. Salmon and other large
fish will require 3 to 4 days and nights of steady smoking. To store longer
than 2 weeks, smoke all fish a minimum of five days; for larger fish, at
least a week or longer.
    7. The smoker should not produce a lot of smoke during the first 8 to 12
hours if the total curing time is 24 hours, or for the first 24 hours if the
curing time is longer. When the first part of the smoking ends, build up a
dense smoke and maintain it for the balance of the cure.
    8. If cold-smoked fish has been brined for at least 2 hours and smoked
for at least 5 days, it will keep in the refrigerator for several months.

Lox
Lox is similar to cold-smoked salmon, but is moist, lightly salted and
lightly smoked. Much practice and experience are needed to prepare
satisfactory lox. The appropriate length of brining and smoking to produce
lox that suit one's taste is determined mainly through trial. Lox can be
prepared following the instructions for cold-smoking with the following
modifications:

     * Smoke at 70-80?F for 1 to 3 days (temperatures above 80?F will cook
the fish).
     * To give a sheen to the surface of lox, rub with vegetable oil after
the smoking is completed.
     * In the refrigerator, lox will keep for 1 to 2 weeks. It will keep
longer, if frozen.

Hot-Smoking

    1. To hot-smoke fish, follow steps 1-6 under "Preparing Fish for Smoking."
    2. Brine ?-inch-thick fillets for about 15 minutes, 1-inch-thick pieces
about 30 minutes, and 1?-inch-thick pieces about 1 hour. Brining times can
be adjusted to give the fish a lighter or heavier cure.
    3. After brining, rinse the fish briefly in cold running water.
    4. Place the fish skin-side down on greased racks in a cool, shady,
breezy place to dry. The fish should dry for 2 to 3 hours or until a shiny
skin or pellicle forms on the surface. The pellicle seals the surface and
prevents loss of natural juices during smoking. A fan will speed pellicle
formation.
    5. Place the fish in a homemade or commercial smoker. For the first 2
hours, the temperature should not exceed 90?F. This completes the pellicle
formation and develops brown coloring.
    6. After the initial 2-hour period, raise the temperature to 150F and
smoke the fish for an additional 4 to 8 hours. The length of time will
depend on the thickness of the fish, and on your preference for dry or moist
smoked fish. Generally, ?-inch-thick pieces are smoked for 4 hours,
1-inch-thick pieces for 6 hours, and 1?-inch-thick pieces for 8 hours.
    7. Store hot-smoked fish in the refrigerator. Freeze hot-smoked fish if
it will be stored longer than a few days.

The authors are Robert J. Price, Ph.D., Extension Seafood Technology
Specialist and Pamela Tom, M.Sc., Staff Research Associate Department of
Food Science & Technology, University of California, Davis, California
95616-8598

Honey-Cured Smoked Salmon

     * 1 quart water
     * 1/2 cup salt
     * 3/4 cup honey
     * 1/4 cup golden rum
     * 1/4 cup lemon juice
     * 10 cloves
     * 10 allspice berries
     * 1 bay leaf
       1 large fillet of salmon

Combine all the ingredients besides the salmon to make the brine.
Place the salmon, skin side up, in a non-reactive dish and cover with
brining liquid. Allow fish to brine for 2 hours.
Rinse the salmon in fresh water and pat dry with paper towels.
Place salmon on a drying rack (or grill rack that you will use to smoke the
salmon on) and allow to air dry for about 1 hour.
Smoke salmon skin side down for about 1 1/2 hours, keeping temperature at
160 degrees Fahrenheit.


Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2006 23:10:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] smokers was preparing foods
To: hlaislinn at earthlink.net,	Cooks within the SCA
	<sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

--- Stephanie Ross <hlaislinn at earthlink.net> wrote:
> I have a traditional smoker that I don't know how to use. It belonged to my
> mother who is now in a nursing home. I don't think she quite has the
> capacity to tell me how to use it. It's a shame for it to sit and rust
> away. Does anyone know how to use it to smoke meat? It is shaped like a
> cylinder with a dome roof, a door in the side, and two enamel bowls  
> that fit inside it somehow.
>
> ~Aislinn~

That sounds very similar to my smoker.  Does she still have the racks for it?
Is there a temperature gauge on the dome?

If it is like mine, the bigger enamel bowl is were you put the hot coals and on
those hot coals you put your wet wood chips to create the aromatic smoke.  The
other smaller enamel bowl is for water, which helps keep the direct heat from the meat and also create some steam that keeps the meat from drying out.   
The door should be where you can keep track of the coals and put in more wood  
chips.

Any good smoking cookbook on the subject can help you with how to use  
your smoker.

Huette

Here are a few:

Smoke cooking / [editor, Jan Miller].
  1st ed.
  Des Moines, Iowa : Better Homes and Gardens Books, c2001.
  96 p. : col. ill. ; 27 cm.
ISBN: 0696213567

Anderson, Warren R.
Mastering the craft of smoking food / Warren R. Anderson.
Springfield, NJ : Burford Books, 2006.
ISBN: 1580801358

Black, Maggie. [Yes, That Maggie Black]
  Smoking food at home / Maggie Black.
  Newton Abbot ; North Pomfret, Vt. : David & Charles, c1985.
  176 p. : ill. ; 23 cm.
ISBN: 0715384848

Jamison, Cheryl Alters.
  Sublime smoke : bold new flavors inspired by the old art of barbecue /
Cheryl Alters Jamison and Bill Jamison ; [illustrations by Paul  
Hoffman].
  Boston, Mass. : Harvard Common Press, c1996.
  vii, 392 p. : ill. ; 24 cm.
ISBN: 1558321063
  1558321071 (pbk.)

Langer, Richard W.
  Where there?s smoke there?s flavor : real barbecue--the tastier alternative
to grilling / by Richard W. Langer ; illustrations by Susan McNeill.
  Expanded ed.
  Boston : Little, Brown, c2001.
  ix, 272 p. : ill. ; 24 cm.
ISBN: 0316513377

Park, Lue.
  The smoked-foods cookbook : how to flavor, cure, and prepare savory  
meats, game, fish, nuts, and cheese / Lue & Ed Park.
  1st ed.
  Harrisburg, PA : Stackpole Books, c1992.
  216 p. ; 24 cm.
ISBN: 0811701166


Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 00:34:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] smoked fish was preparing foods tourney side
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

> On the other thread:  the heating method may differ but the timing and
> result should be the same, whether live coals, propane or an  
> electric coil warm the wood chips.  Yes, no, maybe?
>
> Selene

As for smokers, I have the charcoal type and Etienne had an electric  one, when we smoked ducks for the Viking banquet.  We did all the ducks in the two  smokers. Several batches. The electric one needed less tending, but didn't smoke  nearly as much as the charcoal one, even though we used exactly the same amount of wood chips.  But the charcoal needed replenishing during the smoking.  All we had to do was chuck in more charcoal, through the door.  Both needed to have more chips added from time to time. And the water in the electric one boiled away faster, even though they both were at the same temperature...  From the amount of smoke that came out of mine, I would say that the charcoal was the better smoker, but the electric one probably was cheaper, because you didn't have to buy charcoal.  And you didn't have to check to make sure there was still enough heat. I haven't used a propane smoker, so I don't know about them.

Huette


Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2006 11:36:15 -0600
From: "Georgia Foster" <jo_foster81 at hotmail.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] smoked fish
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

Works best with fresh-caught-through-the-ice fish

I generally use apple wood chips.  I add some sliced apple to the chips, and
a clove and a cinnamon stick.  Soak the chips, fruit and spice for about an
hour or so.  Set up the smoker.  add the smoke blend to the pan and smoke
fillets of 1/2 inch thickness for 20-30 min.  I use Mackinaw Trout when I
can get it because Rainbow flesh is too soft.  Bake the smoke fillets for
another 20 min just to make sure they are done through.  This ensures the
fish is done, but without overpowering the fish flavor with smoke  
flavor.

Malkin


Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2006 16:22:51 -0700
From: Susan Fox <selene at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] speaking of smokers...wood?
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Barbara Dodge wrote:
> I recently had a branch fall from the pecan tree in my backyard.  Does
> anyone know of any special processes I should take into  
> consideration before turning it into chips for smoking purposes?
>
> Felicia

Make sure it is not poisonous or otherwise un-tasty.  Fruit and nut
woods are the usual preference.  I got a ton of plum and mulberry
branches in my parents' yard I need to use!  Oh but you said it was
pecan, so that's just fine.

Hack it up into small bits, the size of average human fingers or
smaller.  Sawdust itself will do admirably, just don't mound it on so
heavily that your coals are smothered.

Soak in water and go to it!  I have also heard of soaking the
smoking-wood in beer and such.

Selene


Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 21:37:29 -0400
From: "grizly" <grizly at mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] speaking of smokers...wood?
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

-----Original Message-----
>>>> Should the chips be dried first rather than using the "green" wood? I don't
think the branch was quite dead yet.  We've had a few wind storms in the
area, and I think that that is what brought the branch down.

Felicia < < < < < < <

Green wood might actually smoke a lot more (smolder more before burning),
and give a little more residue due to the resins, ergo more flavors.  So,
you can use green wood, and you get to decide your personal emotional
sensitivity to the carcinogens issue . . . mine is nearly non-existent since
there are so many other nasties around that are far more insidious than a
little pecan smoke.

niccolo difrancesco


Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 00:03:10 -0400
From: "Saint Phlip" <phlip at 99main.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Smoked Meats in Northern Europe
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

On 10/8/06, David Friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com> wrote:
> Reluctantly shifting the thread from fat chipmunks back to smoked  
> meat ...  .

Oh dear, and here I was hoping for a recipe for smoked chipmunks ;-)

> Does anyone here have experience with using smoking of meat and fish
> for reasonably long term preservation? My impression is that the
> smoked meat and fish commonly sold uses the smoking mainly for flavor
> and still requires refrigeration. Are there good sources for fish and
> meat that doesn't, and so would help solve the problem of managing
> Pennsic and other long events without a cooler?
> --
> David/Cariadoc
> www.daviddfriedman.com

Since last we discussed this, I've been reading and looking around. I think
I have an adequate plan for a smoker that would do the job, that you
could make yourself fairly easily, so you could smoke whatever you
wanted. The reason I'm thinking this would be your best bet, is
because the only commercially smoked item I'm aware of is the
Smithfoeld Ham, and somehow, I think that might conflict with your
persona ;-)

Now, forgive me for going over what we discussed last time around, but
I'm repeating because I figure there are new folks on the List, and
I'd like them to be on the same page as the rest of us.

The more usual commercial smoking is actually a cooking process,
designed to add flavor to the meat, as you mentioned. It's a hot
temperature process, usually running about 200 degrees or higher. What
you want for preservation smoking is cool smoking, usually in the 80
to 100 degree range (I'm using Fahrenheit, btw). In order to make a
smoker, you need a box with hooks to hold the meat at the top, and
possibly grill type shelves, so that the smoke can reach all parts of
the surface of the meat you're cooking.

You then need a firepit, perhaps a closed barbecue grill, that you can
cut a hole in for the hose to lead from the firebox to the box. And,
you need a hose (I'm thinking dryer hose would work fine) to get the
smoke from the firepit to the smoke box. A couple of thermometers, one
at the top, the other at the bottom, would let you make sure you've
got your temps right.

Basicly, the idea is to start your fire in the firepit, throw your
smoking wood (well soaked) on top, and adjust the length of your hose
until the smoke going into the box keeps the temp where you want it,
and let 'er rip. If you use a fire, obviously you'll hafta tend it.
You do need, however, an outlet in the box, but if you set it up
right, it'll work like a chimney draft. I intend to make one here-
once I have it done, I'll show you pictures.

Things to keep in mind is that the box needs to be fairly high in the
air, with the firebox on the ground, for a good draft, and the meat
would need to be well brined before you do this. And, if you can sorta
see in the drawing, the firebox needs to be offset from directly under
the food box, with the hose at a 45 degree angle for a good draft.
Also, IIRC, you're in Southern California, and you'd need to keep it
shaded.

The one I improvised at Pennsic, by using my big soup pot and putting
it over the fire with the apple wood in the bottom of the pot worked
very well, but the temps were too high for cold smoking, so I've been
planning since how to distance the heat from the food and still get
plenty of smoke. Simple gates in the hose and the upper vent should do
a good job of ventilation control.

Whole thing should be much cheaper than the commercial ones I gave you
the URLs to, and a lot more fun ;-)
-- 
Saint Phlip


Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 11:21:54 -0500
From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius1 at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] 12th Night 2007 Stories
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

On Jan 7, 2007, at 10:14 AM, ranvaig at columbus.rr.com wrote:

> If everything you ate was a little too smoky, perhaps you wouldn't
> enjoy it quite as much.
>
> Ranvaig

Bingo. Among other things, see Gervase Markham's remarks on
carbonadoes, to the effect that only losers cook their steaks over
fires (sorry, I've been hanging out with my kid too much lately),
which allow fat to drip onto the flames and coals, and smoke, (non-
losers apparently cook their carbonadoes in front of the fire on an
inclined gridiron) plus instructions about baking things wrapped in
paper to protect them from the ashes and smoke, in both Markham,
Elinor Fettiplace's receipt book, etc.

Of course, one might argue Brian Boru is removed from these sources
by several centuries, but if you depend on a wood-burning fire for
cooking, the problem is potentially endemic, and the solutions are
common sense... the real question is whether you see it as a problem.

Adamantius


Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 08:34:37 -0400
From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius1 at verizon.net>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] OT/OOP Oven Smoker Bags???
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Has anyone heard of or used these?

Apparently it is a disposable, reinforced foil bag with a partition
for some kind of wood chips or sawdust, and another for the food you
want to [hot] smoke. It all gets sealed and placed in a hot oven.

Basically, a disposable version of those small stovetop smoking pans.
Clearly not intended for a whole brisket for eight to twelve hours,
but perhaps not as inherently pointless as a lot of the potlatch
cooking equipment out there today.

Adamantius


Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 19:18:41 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Smoker was: Bread Questions
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Might I suggest taking a look at Harold McGee's volume On Food and Cooking.
He goes into the limitations of smoking and the bibliography suggests a 
number of sources that offer good follow-up advice.

Johnnae

David Friedman wrote:
<<< Have you experimented with smoking as a method of preservation, 
rather than only flavoring? I've wondered if it would be a useful way 
of having meat at Pennsic without a cooler. >>>


Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 06:54:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: Louise Smithson <helewyse at yahoo.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Smoking for preservation: was Smoker
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

David/Cariadoc wrote: 
<<< Have you experimented with smoking as a method of preservation, 
rather than only flavoring? I've wondered if it would be a useful way 
of having meat at Pennsic without a cooler. >>>

I haven't personally, but my apprentice has (and does). He has taken chicken, beef, pork all to pennsic, hung them up in his shade fly then eaten them later. He also has a period food preservation class on his website. 
http://giles.freehostia.com/pantry.htm

Helewyse 
I can direct queries to him as he is not on this list. 


Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 22:33:37 -0400
From: Daniel Schneider <macbrighid at campus.ie>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Smoker
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

The thing to remember about preservative smoking is that it's aimed at
insects, not microbes.We did a fair amount of smoking at Sturbridge, and as
I recall (CAVEAT: this was about ten years ago, so I may be off on some of
the details), food that was cured by dry salting would be hung in *cool*
smoke to have a layer of smoke residue (we used corn cobs) laid down on the
surface, to keep bugs from laying eggs in the meat. It's possible that the
smoke *may* have had some effect in pulling any residual moisture from the
meat, but considering thefact that the meat would have been buried in salt
for several weeks previously, I wouldn't think there would have been much
residual moisture in the first place... The biggest problem I'd forsee with
using a modern smoker would be keeping the meat from getting too warm. We'd
do the smoking in the late fall, and we'd try to keep the temp inside the
smokehouse about the same as the ambient air temp: The smokehouse was about
the size of a single-occupant outhouse, with the meat hung near the roof,
and the smoke coming from corncobs smouldering in a (approx)3-quart iron
kettle on the floor. I'm not sure how you'd be able to get the low
temps with a small modern smoker

Dan


Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 02:03:02 -0400
From: Sharon Palmer <ranvaig at columbus.rr.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Smoked and Pickled: Sources and Recipes?

<<< A third approach is smoking. One can get hard 
sausages that keep without refrigeration, 
although most of them have pork, making them 
unsuited to my (muslim) persona. Does anyone 
have sources for smoked meat or fish that will 
keep? Most modern smoked food seems to be smoked 
only for flavor, and not enough for preservation. >>>

This recipe from Rumpolt that describe smoking 
meat to be kept.  (Several others describe 
smoking meat that is then cooked/served 
immediately).

Ochsen 11. Smoked stuffed tongue. Take a raw 
Tongue and cut the meat out from the Skin/ slice 
meat of the ox/ that is not fat/ also Pig meat 
that is well softened (cooked to jelly?)/ one so 
much as the other nicely small/ and that no water 
comes in/ grind salt in a mortar/ and beat a 
little pepper/ and take twice so much salt as 
pepper/ and rub it with the hands/ before you it 
stuff/ put it then into the tongues/ and tie it 
tightly/ dont hang it in the chimney/ but in 
smoke where no heat comes/ let it hang in there a 
week or four/ like this the inside is nicely red/ 
and keep it for a year or two/ put not make in 
summer but instead in the winter when it is cold. 
And when you wish to eat it/ then let boil an 
hour or two/ pull out/ and let become cold/ and 
when you it wish to slice it/ then pull the skin 
off/ as then you will see if you filled it firmly 
or not. If you it filled that it so that it is 
firm so let it be sliced/ if it is not hard/ then 
give it whole on a table/ like this it is a good 
meal.

Rumpolt also mentions these smoked foods, but doesn't give directions:
bacon (Speck), meat (Fleisch), goose (Gaen?), 
sturgeon (Stoer) , capon, pork (Sp?nsaw), venison 
tongue (Hirsch Zungen.), pork sausage (Schweinen 
W?rst.), salmon (Salm), pheasant (Fasan), tongue 
(Zung, beef (Rindtfleisch), veal (Kalbfleisch), 
calves feet (K?lbernfue?), mutton feet (Fue? von 
dem Hammel), rabbit (K?niglein), trout (Foren). 
pike liver (Hechten Leber), pike (Hecht), carp 
(Karpffen), lamprey eel (Neunaugen), mutton 
(Hammelfleisch), chicken (Hennen), turnips 
(Stickelruben), whitefish (Renken)

Ranvaig

<the end>
Edited by Mark S. Harris	meat-smoked-msg	Page 29 of 29