fish-pies-msg - 5/3/01 Period fish pies. Recipes. NOTE: See also the files: pies-msg, meat-pies-msg, fruit-pies-msg, fish-msg, stockfish-msg, salmon-msg, seafood-msg, flour-msg, ovens-msg, fishing-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ From: L Herr-Gelatt and J R Gelatt <liontamr at postoffice.ptd.net> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 18:30:19 -0500 (CDT) Subject: SC - Re: sca-cooks V1 #75 I have to contribute a favorite tale of a traditional wierd fish dish: Stargazy Pie, made with a regular double pie crust, whole fresh Sardines, Gammon, and Saffrom Milk. The heads of the fish are left to poke out of the crust, staring upwards (thus "Stargazy"). Classify it under *Things that make ya go HMMM?* Top that, whydoncha! Aoife Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 08:50:36 -0400 From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: Re: SC - Tuna Recipe? THLRenata at aol.com wrote: > Does anyone out there know of a good, preferably period recipe for fresh tuna? I believe Chiquart's 15th-century recipe for Parmesan Pies (Tourtes of Parma, etc.), the fish-day version, recommends tuna as one possible fish to use. It's a long recipe, although I believe HG Cariadoc has his lady wife's, Mistress Elizabeth's, translation webbed. Basically it is a large pie with layers of dried fruit and fish, possibly some custard; I'd have to check on the details. Adamantius Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 22:42:07 EDT From: Seton1355 at aol.com Subject: SC - 2 questions Question: Was lenten food, that is, the recipes, ever served at non-Lenten times? Could the following recipe be served cold? Thanks, Phillipa TART DE BRYMLENT (A MEDIEVAL LENTEN TART) Dough -- for 9 inch pie crust 1 1/2 lb Salmon -- cod, haddock or a -mixture 2 tb Lemon juice 2 tb Butter 2 ea Pears -- peeled, cored & thinly -sliced 2 ea Apples -- peeled,cored & thinly -sliced 1 c White wine 2 tb Lemon juice 2 tb Brown sugar 5 ea Cubebs: , thinly crushed 1/8 ts Cloves, ground 1/8 ts Nutmeg 1/4 ts Cinnamon 1/2 c Raisins 10 ea Prunes -- pitted & minced 6 ea Dates -- minced 6 ea Figs, dried -- minced 3 tb Red currant jelly -- or Damson Preheat the oven to 425F and bake the pie crust for 10 minutes. Let cool. Cut the fish into 1 1/2" chunks, salt lightly ands sprinkle with 2 tbsp lemon juice. Set aside. Melt the butter in a large, heavy skillet and toss the pear and apple slices in it until they are lightly coated. Combine the wine, lemon juice, brown sugar, spices and dried fruits, and add to the mixture in the skillet. Cover and simmer about 15 minutes or until the fruit is soft but still firm. Check the flavoring, and drain off excess liquid. Paint jelly on the pie crust. Combine fish chunks with fruit and place the mixture in the crust. Bake at 375F for 15-25 minutes, or until the fish flakes easily. Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 01:07:12 -0400 From: harper at idt.net Subject: Re: SC - 2 questions And it came to pass on 2 Oct 00, , that Seton1355 at aol.com wrote: > Could the following recipe be served cold? > Thanks, Phillipa > TART DE BRYMLENT (A MEDIEVAL LENTEN TART) > > Dough -- for 9 inch pie crust > 1 1/2 lb Salmon -- cod, haddock or a -mixture [snip] Some fish pies were served cold. Nola says that salmon pie (his recipe is much simpler, just the fish and some spices) can be served cold, but that one must make a hole in the bottom crust and drain off the juices. Anglo-Norman culinary tastes may have been different. Lady Brighid ni Chiarain Settmour Swamp, East (NJ) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 08:41:27 -0500 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: RE: SC - 2 questions Draining off the juices might not be the thing to do with this pie. The sauce has a high sugar content and may need them to set up properly. Come to think of it, draining the juices might also remove much of the sauce. I'd experiment. Bear > And it came to pass on 2 Oct 00, , that Seton1355 at aol.com wrote: > > Could the following recipe be served cold? > > Thanks, Phillipa > > TART DE BRYMLENT (A MEDIEVAL LENTEN TART) > > > > Dough -- for 9 inch pie crust > > 1 1/2 lb Salmon -- cod, haddock or a -mixture > [snip] > > Some fish pies were served cold. Nola says that salmon pie (his > recipe is much simpler, just the fish and some spices) can be > served cold, but that one must make a hole in the bottom crust and > drain off the juices. Anglo-Norman culinary tastes may have been > different. > > Lady Brighid ni Chiarain Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 10:01:56 +0200 From: "Cindy M. Renfrow" <cindy at thousandeggs.com> Subject: Re: SC - Fish pie recipe >If anyone has that fish and fruit pie recipe, please re-post it. Do you mean this? Harleian MS. 279 - Dyuerse Bake Metis x. Rapeye. Take Dow, & make [th]er-of a brode [th]in cake; [th]en take Fygys & Roysonys smal y-grounde, & fyrst y-sode, An a pece of Milwelle or lenge y-braid with-al; & take pouder of Pepir, Galyngale, Clowe[3], & mence to-gedere, & ley [th]in comede on [th]e cake in [th]e maner of a benecodde, y-rollyd with [th]in hond; [th]an ouer-caste thy cake ouer [th]i comade, as it wol by-clippe hit; & with a sawcere brerde go round as [th]e comade lyith, & kutte hem, & so he is kut & close with-al, & bake or frye it, & [th]anne serue it forth. 10. Rapeye. Take Dough, & make thereof a broad thin cake; then take Figs & Raisins small ground, & first seethed, And a piece of Haddock or ling pounded withal; & take powder of Pepper, Galingale, Cloves, & mix together, & lay thine mixture on the cake in the manner of a bean-cod, rolled with thine hand; then cast thy cake over thy mixture, as it will embrace it; & with a saucer rim go round as the mixture lies, & cut them, & so he is cut & closed withal, & bake or fry it, & then serve it forth. (From Take a Thousand Eggs or More, vol. 1, p. 72) Cindy Renfrow/Sincgiefu cindy at thousandeggs.com Author & Publisher of "Take a Thousand Eggs or More, A Collection of 15th Century Recipes" and "A Sip Through Time, A Collection of Old Brewing Recipes" Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 17:25:18 -0600 From: "Elise Fleming" <alysk at ix.netcom.com> Subject: SC - Re: Talking of Pies Elysant wrote: >There is a pie called "Star-gazie Pie" which my mother told me of (I've never >eaten it). (snip) It is a fish pie made with whole >(cleaned) fish within it, laid side by side. The top crust has holes cut in >it and the head and tail of the fish are pulled through the holes from >beneath so the body of the fish is "submerged" in the pie and the heads and >tails poke through the holes and are above the crust - making the fish "gaze" >at the stars - at least that where I'm assuming the title came from....Has >anyone else on the list heard of this pie? I wonder about the origins of >it.... Dorothy Hartley, in _Food in England_ has a drawing of a "stargazy" pie (made of pilchards) along with several other dough-wrapped fish presentations. She doesn't give an origin, however. Alys Katharine Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 12:41:19 -0500 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: Pasties was ( SC - Running an Inn???) > Also meat pies or pasties > (although I don't believe pasties are documentably period) > are good choices and can be made ahead. They are good at > ambient temps. If you get a Coleman oven that really helps > as well. > > Gunthar I don't know about the Cornish pasties we've kicked around are period, but here is a little something from Ein Buch von Guter Speise which meets the basic criteria for a pasty. Bear 15. Von pasteden (Of pasties) Wilt du machen pasteden von vischen. so schupe die vische und ziuhe in abe die hut, swenne sie erwallen, und hau sie zu cleinen stcken. hacke peterlin und salbey dor in und tu dor zu pfeffer und yngeber, zinemin und saffran. temper ez allez mit wine einen dnnen derben teye und tu die vische dor in. und giuz den wine dor uf und decke ez mit eime dnnen teyge und mache daz umme und um gantz und brich oben ein loch dor in. und lege da fr ein clsterlin von teyge und laz ez backen. Also mac man auch henre machen. auch fleisch oder wilprete oder ele ode vgele. This is how you want to make pasties of fish. So scale the fish and remove the skin when it boils. And strike it to small pieces. Chop parsley and sage there in. And do thereto pepper and ginger, cinnamon and saffron. Temper it all with wine and make a thin dough (possibly freshly made as opposed to sourdough) and add the fish therein and give the wine thereon and cover it with a thin dough and make that round and round whole (possibly shape the pastry before adding the fish and wine). And break above a hole there in and lay there for a cover of dough and let it bake. So one may make also hens. Also meat or wild meat or eel or birds. <the end> Edited by Mark S. Harris fish-pies-msg Page 5 of 5