exotic-meats-msg - 4/18/08 Period and SCA Exotic meats. Swans, ostrich, crawfish, dormice, cat, hedgehog, frog, turtle. NOTE: See also these files: organ-meats-msg, food-sources-msg, horse-recipes-msg, eels-msg, snails-msg, goat-msg, peacocks-msg, frogs-msg, liver-msg, frogs-msg. KEYWORDS: exotic meat swan peacock eel crawfish cat hedgehog dormice ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ From: Uduido at aol.com Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 09:39:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: SC - Ostrich << Has anybody else seen the ostrich meat that is beginning to be for sale? It is HIGH priced, or I'd have tried some. It was all packed in cryovac, in a special refrigerated case, with posters all over the place telling about it. I think I saw it in my son's fancy Giant Eagle in Pittsburgh, but it might have been here in Ohio. I wondered if it would be as tough and gamey as the peacocks and swans are said to be. >> Ostrich is farm-raised. It has the texture and flavor of beef and is cooked in the same way as beef. It is NOT a game animal and bears no resemblance to game, taste or otherwise. I have not come across any period recipes using this wonderful new addition to the butcher's case. (Yet! :-)) Lord Ras From: "Philip W. Troy" <troy at asan.com> Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 10:33:06 -0400 Subject: Re: SC - Ostrich Uduido at aol.com wrote: > Ostrich is farm-raised. It has the texture and flavor of beef and is cooked > in the same way as beef. It is NOT a game animal and bears no resemblance to > game, taste or otherwise. I have not come across any period recipes using > this wonderful new addition to the butcher's case. (Yet! :-)) > > Lord Ras I think Apicius has a sauce for boiled ostrich, if I'm not mistaken. You could argue that the time of authorship isn't in period (although the SCA really has no early cut-off, apparently) but the recipes were apparently used well into period. Adamantius, barely period himself From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com> Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 23:43:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: SC - Various At 10:38 PM -0500 4/24/97, Mark Harris wrote: >PS: Someone mentioned a period crawfish recipe. That might be interesting, too. >I saw a bag of frozen crawfish tails in the grocery the other day. Elizabeth points out that there is a crayfish recipe in _Le Menagier de Paris_. >And there is no lack of people >around here who need someone to get those "damn" pidgeons out of the attic. Elizabeth likes to say that you can tell that not many poor people in American are literally starving by how tame the pigeons are. Annejke lists, among her subtleties: >1980 Peacock in full Pride (real bird) Master Chiquart (1420) advises his readers to cheat by cooking a goose and dressing it in a peacock's skin; he says peacock doesn't taste as good. Is that consistent with your experience? David/Cariadoc http://www.best.com/~ddfr/ From: "Philip W. Troy" <troy at asan.com> Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 23:22:01 -0400 Subject: Re: SC - Crayfish Uduido at aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 97-04-25 01:05:04 EDT, Stefan wrote: > << Someone mentioned a period crawfish recipe. That might be interesting, too. > I saw a bag of frozen crawfish tails in the grocery the other day.>> > > As far as I know the period recipes that I am aware of call for saltwater > crayfish. If anyone has a reference intimating that freshwater crayfish were > used would they be so kind as to e-mail me this information so I can fill > another hole in my research? Thanks in advance. > > Lord Ras Taillevent mentions ecrevisses and ecrevisses de mer, which would presumably be sea crayfish, a.k.a. squillfish, essentially a variant on the slipper or the spiny lobster. I can't think of any reason why the unqualified word "ecrevisses" would refer to anything else than what it does today, which is your garden-variety mudbug. Re lobster, while we're on this: Homardus Americanus would have been unknown in medieval Europe. The lopisters referred to would have been spiny lobsters or langoustes, native to the Mediterranean and the oceans of the Southern Hemisphere (hence frozen South African lobster tails). Adamantius Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 02:13:26 -0500 From: gfrose at cotton.vislab.olemiss.edu (Terry Nutter) Subject: Re: SC - Pears and Jalapenos Hi, Katerine here. Stefan li Rous asks: >Are there any period recipe for squirrel? There are European squirrels, >right? The only one I'm aware of is that it is one of the alternatives for the meat in Brewet Sarsyn (incorrectly rendered "Farsyn" in the Society of Antiquaries edition, error reproduced in Warner) in B.L. MS Arundel 334. It's a very nice brewet indeed, at least when made with chicken. - -- Katerine/Terry Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 02:17:47 -0400 (EDT) From: "Sharon L. Harrett" <afn24101 at afn.org> Subject: Re: SC - Squirrel On Thu, 31 Jul 1997 Uduido at aol.com wrote: > << There are European squirrels, right? >> > > Yes, indeed. And , joy of joys, you can procure the European variety of > squirrel right here in the US of A. :-) > > The red squirrel was introduced from Europe. Even tho' it is smaller and > kills and eats more birds (about 200 per year per squirrel) than our native > grey squirrel, it is edible. And the more of them people kill...er, I mean > eat the sooner this vicious little pest will be gone! >> Lord Ras Greetings from Ceridwen, May I quote from Le Menagier? "Squirrels are singed, gutted, trussed like rabbits,roasted or put in pastry; eat with cameline sauce or in pastry with wild duck sauce." Let's see what we can do with this one folks! *grin* Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 18:37:02 -0400 From: Aine of Wyvernwood <sybella at gte.net> Subject: Re: SC - Is there a Turtle in the house? Aldyth at aol.com wrote: > I have been offered a 25 pound snapping turtle as a donated feast item for > our December 6th Hunters feast. The beast is on the hoof (flipper) at the 25 > pound weight. Does anyone have an idea what to do with it? How much usable > meat will it provide? > > Aldyth Well to begin with, find out if it is legal to kill....some turtles are endangered species. Here in Trimaris I grew up eating Softshell turtle, now it is illegal... kill it by cutting off it's head, and hang upside down....to drain blood... then you cut it out of its shell....and it is like any four legged critter.... tastes like chicken - sort of....you can boil or fry it... if it is old I might be a tad bit gamy... best bet is to ask around the old timers in the area, they will more than likely be happy to show you how to dress it out and give you recipes to boot. aine Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 22:25:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Uduido at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - Is there a Turtle in the house? << I have been offered a 25 pound snapping turtle as a donated feast item for our December 6th Hunters feast. The beast is on the hoof (flipper) at the 25 pound weight. Does anyone have an idea what to do with it? How much usable meat will it provide? Aldyth >> You should be able to get enough meat off it to do a soup or stew. Be sure and behead it and let it hang to bleed well for at least 48 hours in a very cool place before dressing it.. Lord Ras Date: Sun, 5 Oct 1997 07:42:25 -0500 From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US> Subject: RE: SC - honey dormice recipe >Back on Thursday, Sept. 25, Aine said: >>not to mention taste testing all those honey dormice..... > >Recipe, please! And where did you get the dormice? > >Stefan li Rous Stuffed Dormice Recipe By : Apicius - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - NOTES : Glires: Isicio pocino, item pulpis ex omin membro glirium trito, cum pipere, nucleis, lasere, liquamine farcies glires et sutos in tegula positos mittes in furnum aut farsos in cilbano coques. Dormice: Stuffed dormice with pork filling, and with the meat of whole dormice ground with pepper, pine nuts, silphium, and garum. Sew up and place on a baking tile, and put them in the oven; or cook the stuffed [dormice] in a pan. Translation from Giacosa, Ilaria Gozzini; A Taste of Ancient Rome, University of Chicago Press, 1992. Stuffed Dormouse: Is stuffed with forcemeat of pork and small pieces of dormouse meat trimmings, all pounded with pepper, nuts, laser, broth. Put the dormouse thus stuffed in an earthen casserole, roast it in the oven, or boil it in the stock pot. Translation from Vehling, Joseph Dommers; APICIUS Cookery and Dining in Imperial Rome,dover Publications, 1977. Vehling notes that the Soouther European dormouse is an arboreal rodent the size of a rat (one of my six new things before breakfast). He goes on to state "Dormouse, as an article of diet, should not astonish Americans who relish squirrel, opossum, muskrat, "coon," etc." Giacosa shows this recipe as Apicius 397. Vehling shows it as Apicius 396. Bear Date: Sun, 05 Oct 1997 09:49:58 -0400 From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: Re: SC - honey dormice recipe Decker, Terry D. wrote: <snip> > Recipe By : Apicius > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > > NOTES : Glires: Isicio pocino, item pulpis ex omin membro glirium > trito, cum pipere, nucleis, lasere, liquamine farcies glires et sutos in > tegula positos mittes in furnum aut farsos in cilbano coques. > > Dormice: Stuffed dormice with pork filling, and with the meat of whole > dormice ground with pepper, pine nuts, silphium, and garum. Sew up and > place on a baking tile, and put them in the oven; or cook the stuffed > [dormice] in a pan. > > Translation from Giacosa, Ilaria Gozzini; A Taste of Ancient Rome, > University of Chicago Press, 1992. > > Stuffed Dormouse: Is stuffed with forcemeat of pork and small pieces of > dormouse meat trimmings, all pounded with pepper, nuts, laser, broth. > Put the dormouse thus stuffed in an earthen casserole, roast it in the > oven, or boil it in the stock pot. Just thought I'd throw a small note in here: laser and silphium are not the same thing. IIRC (which is as close as you're going to get on a Sunday morning before I've had my tea) silphium was a more or less unidentified (at least to us) plant resin which appears to have gone extinct or otherwise unavailable between the lifetime of Marcus Gavinus Apicius, and the time at which the earliest Apicius manuscript (7th century?) is dated. Laser appears to be the more readily available substitute for silphium, and is believed to be asafeotida gum, presumably ground to a powder. This is available as an extract in some herb or health-food stores, and as the genuine article, powdered resin, in Indian markets under the name "hing powder". G. Tacitus Adamantius, always interested in Soul Food ; ) Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 16:59:09 -0400 (EDT) From: LrdRas at aol.com Subject: SC - Roc recipe-sort of << what is your recipe for Roast of Roc >> Well.....I didn't really write it down. Basically, I thought I could serve ostrich (period for my persona almost) instead of emu but the ostriches weren't ready for slaughter. :-) So I bought 2 emus instead (Serves 150) and borrowed a pig roaster. I cut off the hind quarters leaving them whole and attached together. The rib cage and neck were reserved for stock. The emu's have several lbs. of fat internally between the legs so I trimmed the fat from the carcass and rendered it. The resulting grease was used in making pasrtry dough for another feast dish. The emu farmer slaughtered the birds and skinned them for me. He thew in the livers and the fat for free The liver was reserved for the Guild cooks and a few hand-picked liver gourmands that were known to be on site, as well as a couple of event goers who had expressed interest in this rare and delightful gourmet treat. It was lightly sauted in butter and shallots and sliced for serving. Four strips of meat located inside underneath the was also reserved specifically for the 4 volunteers who spent there entire day doing grunt work and maintaining the sanity of the kitchen. These were carefully removed after the rosted birds went to be carved. The birds were placed in the roaster at 10:30 am and basted every half hour until feast began. The basting sauce consisted of 1/2 gallon Italian dressing; 1 quart of raspberry syrup; 3 tblsp each of ground cubebs, galengal and grains of paradise; 1 cup Dijon style mustard and 1 cup honey. When tender at around 8 pm at the last course of the feast , each was carefully removed to a 2 man platter which were paraded through the feast hall and into the kitchen where they were immediately carved and served. There you have. :-) Ras Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 11:15:51 -0400 From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: Re: SC - mustard and hiney saulce Robert Beaulieu wrote: > Does any one have a period recipe for a honey and mustard sauce to go > with a roasted faisan? While I don't have a period recipe for honey mustard, I can tell you a couple of things that may interest you. The first is that Taillevent recommends serving roast pheasant with fine salt only, and the second is that the addition of honey to mustard in the Middle Ages was a signature of Lombardy. Lombardy mustard appears to have been fairly coarse, almost like whole grain mustard, and slightly sweet from the added honey. I suspect that the coarse variety of Grey Poupon, with a little honey added to taste, and some white wine and/or white wine vinegar added to thin it down to a sauce, rather than a spreadable consistency, would be a good approximation of Lombard mustard sauce. You could, of course, make your own in more or less the same way. Adamantius Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 00:06:08 +0000 From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net> Subject: Re: SC - AAAARRRRGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And it came to pass on 3 Dec 97, that margali wrote: > Philip & Susan Troy wrote: > > Aaaah, you must have the 1956 English edition with the recipe for rat > > bordelaise, I see. > > > > Adamantius > > the 30's paris edition, cat anyone? > margali The "Libro de Cozina" has a recipe for roast cat. Lady Brighid ni Chiarain of Tethba Barony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom mka Robin Carroll-Mann *** harper at idt.net Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 08:04:33 -0600 (CST) From: alysk at ix.netcom.com (Elise Fleming) Subject: SC - Re: Worm Recipe (plus a "new" book) In response to my comment that I had submitted a recipe using worms to Petit Propos Culinaires, Stefan wrote: >Was this worm recipe medieval? Medieval, no. Extremely late period, depending on one's view of "period". It was from either _The Complete Cook_ or _The Queen's Delight_ by "W.M." from 1655. I don't recall the source now, but I found one for pregnant women which included horse dung. Alys Katharine Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:00:31 -0500 From: Christi Redeker <Christi.Redeker at digital.com> Subject: SC - Specialty meats I didn't find an answer to the "What exactly is a game hen" question, but remember goay? I found a place to buy them and any other speciatly meats... Including musk ox. They mention game hens, but I haven't found the exact reference as of yet. http://www.hillsfoods.com/recipes.html You guys will love this site!!! Murkial Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 18:20:23 -0500 From: dangilsp at intrepid.net (Dan Gillespie) Subject: SC - bustard Hello from Sylvan Glen: There is a recipe in the 1607 Arte de Cozina cookbook that I've been looking at for a while. It is for a roasted bustard with a sauce. Bustards are large ground dwelling birds that are omnivorous & live in the Old World. I've been trying to figure out what sort of fowl might make a decent substitute for what I've found to be an endangered species. Does anyone know if you can get free-range turkeys from a health food store or specialty butcher? Perhaps guinea fowl? Wild turkey seems like a decent match, but I'm not much of a hunter. Any other ideas would be muchly appreciated. Off to go redact some recipes, Antoine Dan Gillespie dangilsp at intrepid.net Dan_Gillespie at usgs.gov Martinsburg, West Virginia, USA Date: 6 FEB 98 13:56:03 AES From: RMcGrath at dca.gov.au Subject: SC - hedgehogs I have read that the English peasantry and gypsies would eat hedgehogs, preferably baked in a casing of mud which would allow the prickles [quills - editor] to peel off after cooking... Rakhel Petrovna Lochac Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 19:03:28 +0000 From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net> Subject: Re: SC - Hedgehogs I haven't followed all of this thread, so pardon me if this has been already covered. As to the consumption of real hedgehogs, the "Arte Cisoria", a 1423 Spanish carving manual, mentions hedgehogs in its list of edible quadrupeds. No details are given on how the critter is to be prepared. Lady Brighid ni Chiarain of Tethba Barony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom mka Robin Carroll-Mann *** harper at idt.net Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 11:09:51 -0500 (EST) From: Stephen Bloch <sbloch at adl15.adelphi.edu> Subject: Re: SC - How to cook ahead... Dragonfyr wrote: > > but...but Lord Adamantius.....pray tell how exactly is it you cook a head? To which Adamantius courteously responded: > Well, the usual thing to do is make sure you have enough room in your > freezer, about three weeks before the event. Then you invite a bunch of > friends over, and cook ahead. > > Or, you could take a head, singe or scald it, scrape off all the hair, > split it with an axe or cleaver, and remove the brain, reserving it for > another purpose.... I have two responses. 1) At a feast in Calafia, probably eight years ago, the chef roasted a whole ram in the kitchen. At some point in the feast, he came out with the roasted head on a platter and paraded it around the room to much applause. He returned to the kitchen, we heard a loud CHUNK, and a minute later High Table had a dish of brains in lemon-butter sauce. The Baroness looked a little queasy, IIRC, but the Baron made a point of eating some and offering it around the room. IIRC again, the dish GOT all the way around the room (a smallish feast of 75 or so): many people were grossed out, and the rest of us found it delicious but too rich to eat more than a few morsels. 2) There is a recipe in the Arabo-Andalusian _Manuscrito Anonimo_ entitled "The making of monkey's head". It's not a real monkey's head (sorry, folks), but rather a sort of pudding, cooked in a round-bottomed pot which is then broken and removed to leave a head-shaped thing. I've never tried actually making it; has anyone else? mar-Joshua ibn-Eleazar ha-Shalib Stephen Bloch sbloch at panther.adelphi.edu Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 15:30:46 -0700 From: "Balldrich BallBarian BoulderBain" <msca at c2i2.com> Subject: Re: SC - Rice, Pasta, and walking on eggs... Speaking of walking on eggs, I just made a 24 egg/cheese omlette with an Ostrich egg. When I bought the egg for this experiment, the rancher? that sold it to me showed me that the egg has the ability to handle 300 pounds pressure, he stood on the egg! It tastes exactly like a chicken egg, measures with a ladle, works well for BIG expanded recipes. I was able to make omelettes for ten cub scouts with 1 egg and a lot of giggles from the cub's. Ostrich eggs are in period, even if a bit exotic. Thing is if you are making a big feast and need to use a lot of eggs this might be a solution, and you can sell the egg shell to articians after you empty it! Balldrich in the wilds of Atenveldt Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 18:48:55 EDT From: Mordonna22 at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - Apicius and Fried Chicken > Any ideas/methods to try to cook about 75-90 pounds > of bird [ostrich] in one sitting. Well, we used to cook whole turkeys in big cast iron caldrons out of doors. Don't know where you might get your hands on one, though. Ours had been made in the nineteenth century and handed down in the family. Vehling's Apicius does have two recipes for cooking a whole Ostrich. "[210] BOILED OSTRICH IN STRUTHIONE IN STRUTHIONE ELIXO [A stock in which to cook ostrich] PEPPER, MINT, CUMIN, LEEKS, CELERY SEED, DATES, HONEY, VINEGAR, RAISIN WINE, BROTH, A LITTLE OIL. BOIL THIS IN THE STOCK KETTLE. REMOVE THE BIRD WHEN DONE, STRAIN THE LIQUID, THICKEN WITH ROUX. TO THIS SAUCE ADD THE OSTRICH. SPRINKLE WITH PEPPER. IF YOU WISH IT MORE SEASONED OR TASTY ADD GARLIC [DURING COCTION]" if you don't mind, I think I will skip the redaction on this one. Those babies are HUGE! Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 20:56:42 EDT From: Mordonna22 at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - Ostrich-2 recipes? In a message dated 9/1/98 4:45:15 PM US Mountain Standard Time, LrdRas at aol.com writes: > You mentioned two recipes? I only recieved one. :-( oops, I only sent one. Sorry. I agree, I think Vehling is not as great a scholar as his press says he is. Here's the other recipe. Remember this is Vehling we are talking about: [211] ANOTHER OSTRICH STEW ALITER [IN] STRUTHIONE ELIXO PEPPER, LOVAGE, THYME, ALSO SATURY, HONEY, MUSTARD, VINEGAR, BROTH, AND OIL. So help me that's all there is to it. Vehling doesn't even comment. Mordonna Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 02:02:08 EDT From: Gerekr at aol.com Subject: SC - Apician Teriyaki Chicken 8-); and ostrich sauces <snip of chicken recipe> Here is Apicius 151 from the Flower & Rosenbaum text and their translation. F&B, (Vehling) The two sauces for ostrich: p. 151 #1 In struthione elixo: piper, mentam, cuminum assum, apii semen, dactylos vel caryotas, mel, acetum, passum, liquamen et oleum modice, et in caccabo facies ut bulliat. amulo obligas, et sic partes struthionis in lance perfundis, et desuper piper aspargis. si autem in condituram coquere volueris, alicam addis. Sauce for boiled ostrich. Take pepper, mint, grilled cumin, celery-seed, dates or Jericho dates, honey, vinegar, passum, liquamen, and a little oil, and bring to the boil in a saucepan. Thicken with cornflour and pour this sauce over the pieces of ostrich in the serving-dish, and sprinkle with pepper. But if you wish to cook the ostrich in the sauce add spelt-grits. p. 151 #2 Aliter <in> struthione elixo: piper, ligusticum, thymum aut satureiam, mel, sinape, acetum, liquamen et oleum. Another sauce for boiled ostrich. Pepper, lovage, thyme or savory, honey, mustard, vinegar, liquamen and oil. "Passum" is another cooking-wine preparation, used to sweeten (p. 25-26). Very sweet, apparently. Their make-do is "a very sweet Spanish wine" which is sweet enough, but not really the right/original flavor. Chimene & Gerek (who was right!, 8-)) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 22:18:05 EDT From: LrdRas at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - Swans alasdair.maciain at snet.net writes: << Has anyone (Ras?) actually cooked or eaten swan? Alasdair mac Iain >> Swans are tough! Did I mention that swans are tough? Seriously though, yes I've tried swan and found that swan is tough. It also has a vaguely fishy taste that i did not find particularly agreeable. Ras Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 23:29:08 -0400 From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow) Subject: Re: SC - Swans >Whilst standing watch on the pier yesterday, I was watching the swans >swimming around the boats. Not that I'd be willing to eat these particular >birds (not after all the time they've been swimming around RCs!), but does >anyone have any period recipes for swan? Has anyone (Ras?) actually cooked >or eaten swan? > >Laird Alasdair mac Iain of Elderslie >Dun an Leomhain Bhig >Canton of Dragon's Aerie, Barony Beyond the Mountain Harleian 4016 (c. 1450) has 2 recipes for swan. One is simply a whole swan roasted, the other is a dish of entrails. There is also an allusion to pudding of swan's neck in the feast menus. Cindy/Sincgiefu Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 12:16:33 -0400 From: "Philippa Alderton" <phlip at bright.net> Subject: Re: SC - Thoughts on Food- reply, long. Lady Elisabeth asked : >I especially would like to hear of some of the more unique recipes that everyone has found, especially period ones, containing unique ingrediants or animals. I would also like to hear if you have cooked said recipe, or said unique animal, and your comments.< We've also discussed long pig, and I'll refer to a passage from a book I just read, "Aztec Autumn", where in the hero is talking to a friend who is telling him about the animals the Spaniards brought to the New World, including "porcus", which tastes just like the thigh meat of a healthy young man. As far as period oddities, Anthimus refers to organ meats such as kidneys, stomach (tripe), matrix (sow belly), udder, liver, and many birds and fishes, including lamphreys. Apicius refers to rose and violet wine, brain sausages among many others, intestinal fat and intestines as casings, nettles, smelt pie or sprat custard, ostrich, grane, thrush, figpeckers, pheasant, and many other birds, sow's womb, tails and feet, lungs,chamois, gazelle, wild sheep and dormouse, rays, squid, octopus and sea urchins, and eels, including conger. Platina includes omentum, maidenhair fern, heads and giblets of capons and chickens, tounge, chicken and other animals testicles testicles, porcupines and hedgehogs, brains and heads of all species, eyes, hearts and lungs, liver, udders, spleens, kidneys, stomach, fish eggs, several for hemp (cannabis), turtles, murex, and eels including moray and conger. Phlip Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 10:18:41 +1000 (EST) From: The Cheshire Cat <sianan at geocities.com> Subject: Re: SC - Swans >Whilst standing watch on the pier yesterday, I was watching the swans >swimming around the boats. Not that I'd be willing to eat these particular >birds (not after all the time they've been swimming around RCs!), but does >anyone have any period recipes for swan? Has anyone (Ras?) actually cooked >or eaten swan? > >Alasdair mac Iain At coronet in 1996, when Ynys Fawr hosted the event, we served swan to the high table. We just roasted it. I wasn't in the kitchen for that evening, so I don't know much about how they prepared it other than what the finished product was like. IIRC the meat had a silvery sort of sheen and was not very tasty. Besides, the paperwork involved in getting permission to kill a couple was long and tiresome, despite the fact that we have them in plague proportions here in the South of Tasmania. It was a good experiment, but not one that we would care to repeat in a hurry. IMO Swans are certainly not worth the effort involved in the legal work. Stick with other game birds instead. - -Sianan ************************************************************************** Marina Denton sianan at geocities.com Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 12:50:07 EDT From: LrdRas at aol.com Subject: SC - Cat-recipe a14h at zebra.net writes: << Ok, enough of this. I ate cat when I was working for our oh so dear Uncle Sammy. It tasted like crap, and was tough and stringy to boot. I want to see a recipe. >> Here is the info that was posted to the list a few months ago by Lady Lady Brighid ni Chiarain of Tethba. Unfortunately the reference she mentions is not in my collection and she failed to send the entire recipe excerpt from the maunuscript. Until someione deigns to post the actual transcription from this manuscript and it's translation in ENTIRETY we only have this passing reference. :-( ""In the "Libro de Guisados" the recipe for roast cat specifies that the cat is to be wrapped in a linen napkin and buried for a day and a night before cooking." Ras Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 05:16:40 -0500 (CDT) From: alysk at ix.netcom.com (Elise Fleming) Subject: SC - My Translation - Roast Cat Recipe Greetings from Alys Katharine. Here is something I did a number of years ago... Two Recipes from Ruperto Nola's _Libro de Guisados_ Translated by Alys Katharine (Elise Fleming) In 1929 Dionisio Perez, also known as "Post-Thebussem", put into modern print the 1529 edition of Ruperto Nola's _Libro de Guisados_ with copius footnotes and commentary on vocabulary. It was published under Pedro Sainz y Rodrigues, Catedratico of the University of Madrid, Vol. IX, Los Clasicos Olvidados, Nueva Biblioteca de Autores Espanoles. At the beginning of the Glossary, Dionisio Perez comments briefly on his work. This is a rough translation. Except where noted, all footnotes are mine. "I have preferred to become familiar with the second Spanish edition made in Logrono in 1529 by Miguel de Eguia at the request (paid by) Diego Perez Davila, mayor of that city, since it is a more perfect and cleaner copy than the first, printed in Toledo in 1525. In 1538 and 1543 Nola's work was reprinted, without an indication as to place. In 1577 another edition was done in Toledo. I am not familiar with any later editions. In the _Encyclopedia Espasa_ a 1568 edition is noted to which the title page of the second edition is attributed, which appears here. (1) Torres Amat notes an edition done in Toledo in 1477. In the 'Prologue" I give a history detailing these editions. "The few biographical references that remain about Nola come from the 'Memoria para ayudar a formar un diccionario critico de los escritores catalanes' (Barcelona, 1836), edited by Torres Amat, and doesn't specify which of the three Hernandos or Fernandos of Naples had Nola as a cook. In the 'Prologue' some facts and dates are set forth on this matter." The first recipe on page 124 caught my eye. It is offered for historical interest only. I don't intend to try it! (1) I am uncertain about the translation of this sentence. Roast Cat as One Likes to Eat It (p. 124) You will take the cat that is fat. You have to slit its throat. After it has died, cut off the head and throw it away because it isn't edible. They say that by eating its brains one can lose one's own brains, sense of judgment and reason. After skinning it very cleanly, open it up and clean it out well. Then wrap it in a clean linen cloth and bury it in the ground where it has to lie for a day and a night. Then remove it from there and put it to roast in a roaster and roast it on the fire. When beginning to roast, rub it with good garlic and oil. When you have finished greasing it beat it well with a switch (bundle of twigs?) (2) This you have to do until it is well roasted, oiling it and beating it. And when it is roasted, cut it up as if it were a rabbit or kid and put it on a large platter. Take garlic and oil (?liquified?) with a good broth so that it is (?quite thin?) and cast it over the cat. You can eat it because it is good table fare. Note: According to a note by Dionisio Perez, cat was served disguised as rabbit in taverns in the poorer sections of towns, but it was also eaten and known to be cat in homes of decided taste. Cat meat is firm and flexible. Interring it isn't enough to tenderize it. It needs beating during cooking, according to Perez's notes. (2) After I did my translation I found one that Nige of the Cleftlands had done. She noted that the "switch" was probably a bundle of rosemary used to impart a flavor and sort of tenderize the meat when cooking. She cited another source where rosemary twigs were used to beat a piece of meat while cooking. Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 22:57:26 -0500 From: snowfire at mail.snet.net Subject: Re: SC - Hedgehogs I missed the original posting on the hedgehog recipe. Not that I'd like to eat them, but I do know that Romany Gypsies cooked them in clay and ate them often. Was the recipe Romany or not? and if so does the poster (or anyone else) have any more Romany recipes? Elysant Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 10:07:11 -0500 From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net> Subject: Re: SC - Hedgehogs The "Arte Cisoria", a Spanish carving manual written in 1423, mentions hedgehogs in its list of edible animals, but does not describe how they were cooked. Brighid Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:57:17 EST From: LrdRas at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - Recipe request for Ras Groundhog can be prepared using any recipe suitable for rabbit. Young hogs are best because they are more tender. The addition of a stuffing when roasting vastly improves the final flavor of roasted groundhog although they are tasty plain roasted also. Ras Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 21:01:31 -0500 From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net> Subject: Re: SC - Recipe request for Ras And it came to pass on 9 Feb 99,, that LrdRas at aol.com wrote: > Recipe plaese? original, OK. Translation, preferred. Okay... from _Libro del Arte de Cozina_, 1599: Pastel de conejo de las Indias -- Pastry of Rabbit of the Indies (Guinea Pig) The rabbit of India must be scalded with hot water in the manner that one scalds suckling pigs, or it must be flayed, remove the entrails, and stuff it like the domestic rabbit, and cover it with pastry, as we said in the previous chapter. [The previous "chapter" is a recipe for rabbit pie, and it goes as follows:] To Make Pastry of Domestic Rabbits Take the rabbit and cut off the head, and the feet, take out the entrails and wash it with many waters, and stuff it with a mixture made of chopped lard, ham, and its liver cleaned of the bile, mint, chopped marjoram, sour grapes, pepper, cinnamon, cloves, nutmeg, and salt, raw egg yolks, and when it is full sew up the opening, and the rabbit sprinkled with the said mixture, put it in a pastry made in the manner of "nauezilla" with some little slices of bacon underneath, having taken out the legs, put them upon the rabbit with as many more little slices of fat pork, and sprinkle all with the same spices, cover the pastry, and make it cook in the oven, and serve it hot. Brighid Lady Brighid ni Chiarain Settmour Swamp, East (NJ) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 01:04:08 +0200 From: Thomas Gloning <Thomas.Gloning at germanistik.uni-giessen.de> Subject: SC - Ostrich & calf (was: medieval faires) Ras wrote: >>> Ostrichs are mentioned in Apicius and several recipes are given. They are originally from Africa and were imported and raised in Rome. I see no problem with seeing them at a medieval feast considering the trade with the Mideast. <<< Coming from the other edge of the timeframe to the Middle Ages, ostrich is also mentioned in Rumpolt's cookbook (1581, fol. LXIIIIb: "Vom Strausz/ vnd was darausz zu machen sey", 'About the ostrich and what can be made of it'). At the end of the passage Rumpolt says: "Vnd es wirts mancher essen fu:er Kalbfleisch". 'Many people will take the ostrich dish for a dish of calf' And then: "Vnnd von einem Strauss kan man so viel Speise zurichten/ als von einem Kalb". 'And you can prepare as many (the same kind of) dishes from an ostrich like from a calf'. Thus, Rumpolt refers back to his own long, actually _very_ long calf section with its 59 recipes. This section with the calf recipes is now happily webbed due to the laborious work of Martina Grasse at: http://www.uni-giessen.de/~g909 (option "Alte Kochbuecher", then "Rumpolt", then "Vom Kalb"). But to come back to the ostrich: Are there recipes for ostrich from _medieval_ sources? After all, Apicius is a roman source, and Rumpolt is an early modern source. Thomas Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 12:13:28 -0500 From: Wajdi <a14h at zebra.net> Subject: Re: SC - cod and parrottongues LrdRas at aol.com wrote: > agora at algonet.se writes: > << I wonder if someone remember a Roman recipe for parrottongues. >> > > Hummingbird tongues yes. Parrot tongues, no. My copy of apicius (giacosa) has a recipe for roasted flamingo or parrot (Apicius 232), but nothing for parrot-tongue. However, the commentary refers to tongue in the following: "...flamingos were said to have been slaughtered for their tongues or brains alone (Historia Augusta, Heliogabalus 20, 6: Pliny, Naturalis historia 10, 133; and Martial 13, 71)." wajdi Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 00:21:10 +0200 From: Thomas Gloning <Thomas.Gloning at germanistik.uni-giessen.de> Subject: SC - cod and parrottongues / Apicius Ana wrote: >>> I wonder if someone remember a Roman recipe for parrottongues. They imported parrottongues from Africa, how did they prepare it? Is it in Apicius or in other texts? <<< As far as I can see, Apicius has no recipe for parrottongues, and the only passage where parrot (_psittacus_) is mentioned is at the end of the flamingo recipe in VI 6.1: "Idem facies et in psittaco" 'The same way you can do it with the parrot'. Given this close connection between flamingo and parrot, perhaps a passage from Pliny's Naturalis Historia could be interesting. He says: "Phoenicopteri linguam praecipui saporis esse Apicius docuit, nepotum omnium altissimus gurges" (X 133; ed. Mayhoff II, 259,5ff.). roughly 'Apicius held that the tongue of the flamingo has an excellent taste, he who was an outstanding gourmet/glutton among all the squanderers'. In addition Martial has a passage about the phoenicopterus, the flamingo: "Dat mihi pinna rubens nomen, sed lingua gulosis Nostra sapit. Quid si garrula lingua foret?" Could be something like: 'I have my name from the reddish/coloured feathers, but my tongue is delicious to the gourmets. (...)' Alas, these passages do not indicate how the tongues were prepared. Thomas Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 12:02:06 -0400 From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow) Subject: Re: SC - Recipes for period Bear Meat - long Hello! Here is the only recipe in "Take 1000 Eggs or More" that calls for bear meat specifically. This is a very elaborate layered dish in 4 colors, like a checkerboard lasagne. The 4 colors: White - grind in a mortar, Ginger, Cinnamon, Galingale; take then almonds & flour of Rice, and a part of Flesh, & cast thereto in a mortar, & grind very small, & mix it with Eggs Yellow - take Saffron, Ginger, Cinnamon, Galingale, Bread, & a part of thine Flesh, & grind it small in the mortar, & mix it up with Eggs. Black - take Ginger, Cinnamon, Galingale, Bread, Eggs, & Old cheese. **This should probably say *burnt* bread, otherwise it won't be black. Green - take then Parsley, & grind it small in a mortar, & wring it & do it up; & add it to thine Flesh, & there-with color thine fair part of Flesh. I think the strong thick dough cake is intended to serve as a baking container, otherwise this 7-layer construction (with stew & grease between the layers), would likely slide apart. But I haven't tried it. If you'd care to send me some of that bear meat, I'll give it a go. ;-) Harleian MS. 279 Dyuerse Bake Metis xij. Vn Vyaunde Furne[3] san[3] noum de chare. Take stronge Dow, & make a cake sumdele [th]icke, & make it tow; [th]an take larde[3] of Venysoun, or a bere, or of a Bere, & kerue hem [th]inne as Fylettes of Porke, & lay [th]in lardys square as a chekyr, & ley [th]er-vppe a tyne y-makyd of Eyroun vppe-on [th]e tyne; ley [th]in farsure, y-makyd of Hennys, & of Porke, of Eyroun, & myid brede, & Salt, & chese, yf [th]ou it hast; & [th]at it be makkyd at .iiij. tymes. Fyrst make [th]us [th]in whyte farsure: grynd in a mortere, Gyngere, Canelle, Galyngale; take then almaundys & floure of Rys, and a party of Fleysshe, & caste ther-to in a mortere, & grynd ry[3]th smal, & temper it with Eyroun, [th]us make [th]in [3]elow Farsure: nym Safroun, Gyngere, Canel, Galyngale, Brede, & a partye of [th]in Fleyssche, & grynd it smal in [th]e mortere, & temper it vppe with Eyroun. The [th]ryd maner schal ben blake: nym Gyngere, Canelle, Galyngale, Brede, Eyroun, & Old chese; nym [th]an Percely, & grynd it smal in a mortere, & wryng it & do it vppe; & do it to [th]in Fleyssche, & [th]er-with coloure [th]in fayre partye of Fleyssche, & ley a party of [th]in Fleyssche on .iiij. quarterys, but [th] at [th]e brede be as [th]in cake; take [th]en & ley [th]er-vppe-on [th]in Fleyssche, & lay [th]er-vppe-on a grece; a-boue [th]in grece ley [th]i cyvey; nym [th]in [th]ridde cours of [th]in Flessche, & lay as brode as [th]in cake, & [th]an grece, & [th]er a-bouyn, a cyvey. ley [th]e iiij. course of [th]in Fleyssche on .iiij. quarterys as brode as [th]in cake, & [th]an grece, & [th]an a-boue, a cyuey. The .v. cours of [th]in Fleyssche, ley as brode as [th]ine cake, & [th]en grece, & [th]an aboue, a cyuey. Nym [th]e .vj. cours, & lay as brode as [th]in cake, & [th]an grece, & [th]an a cyuey. Nym [th]e .viij. cours of [th]e Fleysshe, & lay as brode as [th]in cake on .iiij. quarterys, & grece, & [th]an a cyvey; & a lytel bake hem, & serue forth. xij. Vn Vyaunde Furne[3] san[3] noum de chare. Take strong Dough, & make a cake somewhat thick, & make it tough; then take slices of Venison, or a bear, or of a Bear, & carve them thin as Filets of Pork, & lay thine slices square as a checkerboard, & lay thereupon a pancake made of Eggs upon the pancake; lay thine stuffing, made of Hens, & of Pork, of Eggs, & crumbled bread, & Salt, & cheese, if you have it; & that it be made at 4 times. First make thus thine white stuffing: grind in a mortar, Ginger, Cinnamon, Galingale; take then almonds & flour of Rice, and a part of Flesh, & cast thereto in a mortar, & grind very small, & mix it with Eggs, thus make thine yellow Stuffing: take Saffron, Ginger, Cinnamon, Galingale, Bread, & a part of thine Flesh, & grind it small in the mortar, & mix it up with Eggs. The third manner shal be black: take Ginger, Cinnamon, Galingale, Bread, Eggs, & Old cheese; take then Parsley, & grind it small in a mortar, & wring it & do it up; & add it to thine Flesh, & there-with color thine fair part of Flesh, & lay a part of thine Flesh on 4 quarters, but that the breadth be as thine cake; take then & lay thereupon thine Flesh, & lay thereupon a grease; above thine grease lay thy stew; take thine third course of thine Flesh, & lay as broad as thine cake, & then grease, & there above, a stew. lay the 4th course of thine Flesh on 4 quarters as broad as thine cake, & then grease, & then above, a stew. The 5th course of thine Flesh, lay as broad as thine cake, & then grease, & then above, a stew. Take the 6th course, & lay as broad as thine cake, & then grease, & then a stew. Take the 8th [sic] course of the Flesh, & lay as broad as thine cake on 4 quarters, & grease. & then a stew; & a little bake them, & serve forth. (From "Take a Thousand Eggs or More", 2nd ed., vol 2, pp. 470-471, copyright 1990, 1997, Cindy Renfrow.) Regards, Cindy Renfrow/Sincgiefu renfrow at skylands.net Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 19:31:38 -0400 From: "Alderton, Philippa" <phlip at morganco.net> Subject: Re: SC - Recipes for period Bear Meat to be used in Frederich- Whatever you do, please be sure to cook it very thoroughly. Bears are VERY subject to trichinosis and don't have the advantages of regular wormings and such as our modern swine do- also, they're omnivorous, and are likely to eat anything. If in fact you were serious about this being an old bear, particularly if it was male, consider stewing the blazes out of it, and marinating it. Tenderizing it with a sledgehammer would not be out of the question ;-) My suggestion for a period recipe would be a Hunter's Stew, found in most European Medieval Cultures. All you do is take as many meats as you have caught that day and stew them. I could easily see using venison, rabbit, and pheasant, since we have ready access to them, maybe a few quail, etc. Served with a homemade bread, with several lighter sides, you'd have the basis of a very simple but tasty feast, with the major part of it, the meat, just left on the fire to mumble away. Phlip Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 09:57:43 EDT From: RuddR at aol.com Subject: SC - Vyaunde Furnez sanz noum de chare (was Recipes for Period Bear Meat) Cindy Renfrow writes: <<Hello! Here is the only recipe in "Take 1000 Eggs or More" that calls for bear meat specifically. This is a very elaborate layered dish in 4 colors, like a checkerboard lasagne.>> (Snip) <> (Major snip, in which she gives the recipe: "Vn Vyaunde Furnez sanz noum de chare" (Harleian MS 279, Two Fifteenth-Century Cookery-Books, p. 49.) and her translation.) A few years ago I made a test version of Vyaund Furnez sanz noum de chare (Baked Dish Without a Name, of Meat -- Nameless Meat Pie (?)), of only four layers, just to try it out and see what it might do. It was a "cooking-from-the-hip" experiment, and I didn't take any notes; I was going to take them next time, if I felt it was worth doing again. It turned out to be a lot of work for not that spectacular a result, so I haven't tried it since. It is a long and complicated receipt, and who knows what they really had in mind, but here's what I did: I made it as a deep-dish pie, with regular crust in a pie pan, understanding that to do it right it would be much larger and deeper than what I made. The multi-colored, multi-layered fillings, which are rotated each layer, were pretty straight forward, although the color variation wasn't as marked as I would have liked. The bottom of the pie was lined with thin strips of bacon fat for the lard. The hardest part was figuring out the layers between the fillings. Trying to make sense of the original receipt, I concluded that a "tyne y-makyd of eyroun" was a scribal error for a "cyue y-makyd of eyroun" (t and c, and u and n might easily be confused in 15th century secretary script). I read "cyue" as "civee" (u and v being sometimes interchangable), which in other contexts is an onion sauce. A civee of eggs, it occurred to me, might be a sauce of minced onions mixed with egg. I made such a mixture, and spread a layer of this over the strips of fat to form a base. When the receipt called for a cyue to be layered, alternating with grease, I concluded this referred to the cyue of eyroun that had just been prepared. I layered butter (in place of grease) and the onion and egg mixture between the colored ground-meat layers. When it baked, the egg and onion layer solidified, holding the filling together, and setting off the colored layers, giving a pronounced striped effect. It tasted alright, and a full-scale one would be impressive. I should try it again sometime. Thank you, Cindy, for reminding me of that long-ago experiment. Rudd Rayfield Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 11:05:06 -0400 From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow) Subject: Re: SC - Vyaunde Furnez sanz noum de chare (was Recipes for Period Bear Meat) Hello! Thanks for sharing your experiment! ><snip> Trying to make sense of the original receipt, I concluded that a >"tyne y-makyd of eyroun" was a scribal error for a "cyue y-makyd of eyroun" >(t and c, and u and n might easily be confused in 15th century secretary >script). I read "cyue" as "civee" (u and v being sometimes interchangable), >which in other contexts is an onion sauce. A civee of eggs, it occurred to >me, might be a sauce of minced onions mixed with egg. I made such a mixture, >and spread a layer of this over the strips of fat to form a base. When the >receipt called for a cyue to be layered, alternating with grease, I concluded >this referred to the cyue of eyroun that had just been prepared. I layered >butter (in place of grease) and the onion and egg mixture between the colored >ground-meat layers. When it baked, the egg and onion layer solidified, >holding the filling together, and setting off the colored layers, giving a >pronounced striped effect. <snip> I took my interpretation of "tyne" as a "pancake" from the recipe that immediately follows this in the MS. #13, also called "Vn Vyaunde furnez san[3] nom de chare", says "Take flowre, Almaunde milke, & Safroune, & make [th]er-of .iiij. tynes, & frye [th]i tynez in Oyle..." Take flour, Almond milk, & Saffron, & make thereof 4 pancakes/crepes/flat dough-thingies, & fry thy pancakes/crepes/flat dough-thingies in Oil... #13 is a similarly elaborate recipe that uses fish instead of flesh. Perhaps the name should read "A baked dish without meat"? ('nom' being confused for 'non') and #12, being made in similar fashion, shared the same name?? #13 is a dish in 4 layers, not 7. It is also 4 colored & checkerboard in assembly. The layers are put on thus: Take the first course of the fish (4 colors), in 4 quarters, as a checkerboard, and put a stew/sauce (almond milk & spices that the fish was cooked in) on the fish; sprinkle with sugar, cover with a pancake. And so on for 4 layers. The top is - I think - - supposed to have a decorative hole cut out in the center in the shape of a rose: "Nym [[th]e] .iiij. cours a-cordant to [th]in o[th]er, a-[th]enched to-geder, an a-boue a hole as a rose, & cetera." Cindy Renfrow/Sincgiefu renfrow at skylands.net Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 21:46:41 GMT From: kerric at pobox.alaska.net (Kerri Canepa) Subject: Re: SC - Margali in the food supply company Bonne, >here's a challenge: reindeer ham > >can it be gotten in the U.S.? At what price? I did some calling around to the game processing businesses in the area and found only one in Anchorage that might have what you need: Indian Valley Meats 907-653-7511 or 7512 When I called them all they had on hand was stew meat and chops but they do get larger cuts like rounds and roasts on occasion. They will also ship. I'd suggest surfing the Net for "game meats" or "game processing" and "alaska" and you might find some other sources. Kerri Cedrin Etainnighean, OL Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 23:11:02 -0400 From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: Re: SC - Guinea Pig LrdRas at aol.com wrote: > The only 'recipe' I personally remember many details about consisted of a > casserole of stewed unknown stuff over which the guinea pig, having been > cleaned but NOT skinned was cut into chunks and the chunks were put in a > layer over top of the stew. After cooking it was eaten by lifting the chunks > of guinea pig by the fur and sucking off the meat. Calvin W. Schwabe's "Unmentionable Cuisine" has a few guinea pig recipes, and refers to Peruvian housewives removing a couple of kitchen floor tiles to make a little underground pen to fatten the cavies on potato peelings and such. He specifies that, as Ras says, they are _not_ skinned, but rather scalded and scraped of their fur, which apparently comes off pretty easily once they're scalded. I have to say I think it's unlikely the hairs would stay firmly enough attached to the skin to support any weight when the muscle tissue was tender enough to suck off the bones. Adamantius Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 09:42:42 -0500 From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net> Subject: Re: SC - For Puck's Big Yaller Dawg And it came to pass on 25 Nov 99,, that Stefan li Rous wrote: [many snippages] > >From my exotic-meats-msg file: > > > Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 05:16:40 -0500 (CDT) > > From: alysk at ix.netcom.com (Elise Fleming) > > Subject: SC - My Translation - Roast Cat Recipe > > > > Greetings from Alys Katharine. Here is something I did a number of > > years ago... > > > > Two Recipes from Ruperto Nola's _Libro de Guisados_ > > > > Translated by Alys Katharine (Elise Fleming) > > Roast Cat as One Likes to Eat It (p. 124) > > > > You will take the cat that is fat. You have to slit its throat. After > > it has died, cut off the head and throw it away because it isn't edible. > > They say that by eating its brains one can lose one's own brains, sense > > of judgment and reason. After skinning it very cleanly, open it up and > > clean it out well. Then wrap it in a clean linen cloth and bury it in > > the ground where it has to lie for a day and a night. Then remove it > > from there and put it to roast in a roaster and roast it on the fire. > > When beginning to roast, rub it with good garlic and oil. > > When you have finished greasing it beat it well with a switch (bundle > > of twigs?) (2) This you have to do until it is well roasted, oiling it > > and beating it. And when it is roasted, cut it up as if it were a > > rabbit or kid and put it on a large platter. Take garlic and oil > > (?liquified?) with a good broth so that it is (?quite thin?) and cast it > > over the cat. You can eat it because it is good table fare. A much smoother, readable translation than the one I did. Thank you for posting it, Stefan. A few comments on specific terms: "Asador", which Mistress Alys has translated literally and accurately as "roaster", can also be rendered as "spit". The verb used for the mixing of the broth with garlic and oil is "desatar", which can be translated as "to liquify" or "to dissolve". I prefer the latter. It is, incidently, the same verb that is used throughout de Nola to describe the making of almond milk; one "dissolves" the ground almonds with the liquid. "Quite thin" is a correct translation; "ralo" is used in many recipes in that sense, just as a modern recipe might direct you to "add milk to the batter until it is thin enough". Brighid, guiltily slinking off to scratch her four darlings behind the ears... Lady Brighid ni Chiarain Settmour Swamp, East (NJ) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 14:23:24 -0600 From: Magdalena <magdlena at earthlink.net> Subject: SC - Penguins are period, & so are elephants... Richard Keith wrote: > Please note, I was not my intention to suggest that Penguins were to be > considered a stable or normal portion of any western medieval European > diet. I was only stating that they had been seen and reportedly eaten > within our period. So were lots of things. ;> Here's another example. Alvise da Cadamosto, 1456, while on the Gambia river, describes eating elephant. "I had a portion cut off, which, roasted and broiled, I ate on board ship... to be able to say that I had eaten of the flesh of an animal which had never been previously eaten by my countrymen. The flesh, actually, is not very good, seeming tough and insipid to me." <snicker> I love this quote. I'm still trying to get my hands on a copy of the original work it came from. - -Magdalena Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 20:13:40 -0800 From: Valoise Armstrong <varmstro at zipcon.net> Subject: Re: SC - Re: New World Foods: Rant/ Counter Rant (Long) Cariadoc wrote: ><< I don't know any period recipes for bear, although someone else here > might. >> I know we talked about bear meat last fall, did any of that make it to the florilegium? I know there is on very late period recipe from Marx Rumpolt, p. 200. Here's an off-the cuff translation. I know bear is legal game in a few states. Anyone ever tried it? Rumpolt mentions treating it like wild swine, is that what it tastes like? I find it interesting that the recipe uses the feet and head. Wonder what he did with the rest? Cook it like boar or pork? Von einem Beeren Njmb die Fu:ess vom einem Beeren/ setz sie zu mit Wasser/ vnnd lass sie so lang sieden/ biss dass das haar herab gehet/ butz sie darnach sauber auss/ vnnd koch in einem guten Pfeffer/ in einem Mandelgescharb/ weiss vn{d} saur mit Limonien/ so werden sie gut vnd wolgeschmack. Njm{b} die Beerenfuss/ vnd den Beerenkopf/ besengs auff dem Feuwr/ wie man einem wild Schwein besengt/ setz es zu/ vnd kochs wie man ein wilden Schwein macht/ zeuch jn auss/ vnd lass in kalt werden/ beschneidt jn/ vnd sa:uber jn auss/ so ist es gut zu essen. Take the feet from a bear, set it on [the fire] with water and let it boil so long, until the hair comes off, scrub it afterward cleanly off, and cook it in a good pepper [sauce], in a sharp almond [sauce], white and sour with lemons, so will it become good and well flavored. Take the bear's feet and the bear's head, besengs on the fire, as one besengt a wild pig, set it to [the fire] and cook it as one makes a wild pig, draw it out and let it become cold, cut it and clean it out, so is it good to eat. Only one word that escapes right now - besengen, obviously a verb to do with cook on the fire, but I'm not sure the exact meaning. Valoise Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 23:40:00 -0500 From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: SC - Cariadoc asks about bear recipes Sorry, I lost the original query and can't seem to remember what the header was... As I recall Ras and Friederich were speaking of bear stew, and one of the bear recipes mentioned was something that had been mentioned on the cooks' list. Unless I'm manufacturing artificial memories again, something I seem to be doing lately, the alleged period bear recipe was Vn Vyaunde Furne3 san3 noum de chare, from Harl. MS 279. It contains a line that goes, "(th)an take larde3 of Venysoun, or a bere, or of a Bere, & kerue hem (th)inne as Fylettes of Porke..." For what it's worth, Thomas Austin, in his edition of this published as the Two Fifteenth-Century Cookery-Books, says in his glossary and index that this is a typo/scribal error and should read "Bore" or boar. He's not really clear about why he thinks this, though it seems reasonable given the lack of supporting evidence of bears being used for food in an English recipe book, and the wealth of boar references. As I recall there's a little information about bears in Platina, but no culinary information to speak of. Adamantius Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 09:25:23 -0700 (MST) From: grasse at mscd.edu (Martina Grasse) Subject: SC - Digest 1889 - Bear recipes Rumpolt (I know...LATE period at 1581) lists a recipe for bear-paws. (I do not have it translated yet, but can attempt to do so tonight.) My recollection (from skimming it a few months ago) was that they were roasted in a fire till the fur came off... and then there was some additional preparation, perhaps even a sauce. Will post tomorrow. Gwen Catrin von Berlin Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 08:11:31 EST From: ChannonM at aol.com Subject: SC - Re: sca-cooks V1 #1887 Ok, how's about the idea of substituting turkey for "Bustard", it was driven out of existence I believe. I nor anyone else I know has tasted "Bustard" but it was purportedly an upwards of 40lbs flightless land bird. Recipes can be found in several medieval sources such as "A Forme of Cury" 1390 (IIRC) and others but I can't seem to find them at the moment. According to Websters New Collegiate 1949 Bustard-avis tarda (slow bird), any of a family (Otididae) of Old World and Australian game birds related to both cranes and plovers esp the Great Bustard (Otis tarda) the largest European land bird. Considering the availability of cranes and plovers, seems like it would be an acceptable substitute. Hauviette The turkey is of course from a entirely different family (Meleagridae), but hey, has anyone tasted Bustard lately? Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 22:28:53 EST From: LrdRas at aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: SC - Religious dietary restrictions Seton1355 at aol.com writes: << Where did they eat cat "in period"? >> Italy. The same country that we get our Apician dormouse recipe from. Imagine that? You could create a dish using cat and rat and call it 'Predator and Prey.' Or present roast cat and when you sliced into you would find it stuffed with dormice. :-) Definitely have to put that in my file as a possible subtlety. :-) Ras Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 11:08:32 -0500 (EST) From: alysk at ix.netcom.com Subject: SC - Religious Dietary Restrictions Seton1355 at aol.com writes: << Where did they eat cat "in period"? >> And Ras replied: >Italy. The same country that we get our Apician dormouse recipe from. Cat was also eaten in Spain, from whence the most popular "roast cat" recipe hails. The footnote in the modern book noted that cat was served (knowingly) in some of the upper class homes, and unknowingly (called "rabbit") in many of the lower class taverns. I only own one cat that would make a plump meal. The other is too stringy. Alys Katharine Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 22:19:47 +0100 From: "Cindy M. Renfrow" <cindy at thousandeggs.com> Subject: Re: SC - Reuses for leftover worms Here you go, Ras: 17th c. Spring Tonic: "take a quart of earthworms, scour with salt, slit open, wash with their own filth, put in a stone mortar and beat" (Foley, Ruth H. "Snail Water," Herb Quarterly. Vol. 4. 1979, p. 16) The worms were mixed with herbs and toasted snails; the water derived from this was then drunk with strong beer. Cindy Renfrow/Sincgiefu cindy at thousandeggs.com Author & Publisher of "Take a Thousand Eggs or More, A Collection of 15th Century Recipes" and "A Sip Through Time, A Collection of Old Brewing Recipes" Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 11:26:31 -0400 From: harper at idt.net Subject: Re: SC - Herbs for spit-roasting meat? And it came to pass on 25 Oct 00, , that deborah minyard wrote: > CAT?? > >Thank you. Nola's recipe for roast cat says to whip it with green > >twigs while it is roasting. Yes. The recipe has been discussed here before and is in the Florilegium. Different cultures have differing ideas about which plants and animals are acceptable food. I have a modern Spanish cookbook that I picked up at a used book store. The title (translated into English) is "Cooking Recipes of Basque Grandmothers". The editor interviewed elderly women in the regions of Alava and Navarra and wrote down their recipes. There are two recipes for cat -- stewed and in sauce. Now, it's possible that some kind of wildcat is meant here, but "gato" certainly means cat. There is also a remedy for asthma in the 15th century "Manual de Mujeres" which contains cat grease. I don't get the impression that it has ever been a common meat in Spanish cuisine. Enrique de Villena doesn't mention it in his 1423 carving manual, in which he describes how to carve a wide variety of animals. Most period recipes call for more conventional meats, such as mutton, kid, and chicken. Brighid, owned by four very demanding gray tabbies Lady Brighid ni Chiarain Settmour Swamp, East (NJ) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 02:40:53 +0100 From: TG <gloning at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE> Subject: SC - otter (was: request repeat) << Several days ago there was mention of a period sea otter recipe. ... I would very much like this recipe for my collection. >> To sweeten your time waiting for the sea otter recipe mentioned from La Varenne 1651, here is a passage on the consumption of otters and a recipe for otter's tail from German sources together with a rough English translation: 1. Conrad Gessner, Book of animals, 1563 'About the otter. (...) About its flesch. The flesh of the otter should not be used for human consumption because it is of cold complexion (humorally) and stinking. However, it is reported that they are prepared by several Germans for food/culinary use, and that they are allowed for consumption to the Carthusian monks, who are not allowed to eat (many) other kinds of meat/flesh.' The original text: "Von dem Otter. (...) Von seinem fleisch. DAs fleisch des Otters sol nit in die spey? genommen werden: dann es ist kalter complexion vnd stinckend: doch sllend sy von etlichen Tetschen zuo der spey? bereitet werden/ auch den Carthusianer Mnchen erlaubt/ welchen sunst allerley fleisch verbotten ist." (fol. 129) 2. A recipe for otter's tail from Maister Hanns' cookbook 1460 'How to fry/roast otter's tail. Further: to fry/roast an otter's tail, take the parts of it that are fat. You must prepare it. When it is almost fried/roasted, sprinkle with ginger and p