duck-goose-msg - 9/23/18

Period and modern duck and goose recipes.

NOTE: See also the files: chicken-msg, turkeys-msg, eggs-msg, birds-recipes-msg,
peacocks-msg, fowls-a-birds-msg, Gos-Farced-art, stufed-pltry-msg.

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NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I  have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I  have done  a limited amount  of  editing. Messages having to do  with separate topics  were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the  message IDs  were removed to save space and remove clutter.

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make  no claims  as  to the accuracy  of  the information  given  by the individual authors.

Please  respect the time  and  efforts of  those who have written  these messages. The  copyright status  of these messages  is  unclear  at this time. If  information  is  published  from  these  messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

Thank you,
    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
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Date: Fri, 21 Nov 97 16:12:15 PST
From: "Alderton, Philippa" <phlip at morganco.net>
Subject: [none]

Duck is an easy bird to cook. I don't have my cookbooks to hand, but I can
give you 2 possibilities to use, the first of which is very simple, the 
second of which is a bit more complex. You must keep in mind that ducks are
very fatty critters, and much of what you're doing with a duck is removing
the fat. Need I say that first you remove all visible fat from the cavity?

Method the first:
Thaw and de-fat the duck. Prick gently all over, piercing the skin but Not
the meat, and salt heavily inside and out. If you wish to, make a high acid
stuffing of fresh fruits loosely packed (citrus are best, but apples or
plums or whatever mixed with the citrus work well also), and plan on
cooking another 10-15 minutes. Place on a rack over a drip catching pan and
roast until the skin is crispy and the flesh of the breast has the texture
you prefer on roast chicken, about 1 1/2 to 2 hours at 250 to 300 degrees
F. DO NOT BASTE WITH PAN DRIPPINGS!!! Ducks are essentially self-basting.

Instead, save the rendered fat for something you want to use duck fat for.
Discard the stuffing, split the duck, and serve with a fruit sauce.
Fruit sauce #1

Take your favorite fruit jelly, mix with 1/2 as much of a good wine to your
taste, and gently heat until liquid, Preserves also work well, but are
lumpier.

Fruit sauce #2

Take your favorite fruit juice and add about 1/4 as much wine and heat,
thickening with cornstarch until slightly more liquid than you desire.

Method the second:

Thaw and defat your duck. Remove the skin and slice into 1/2-3/4 inch
strips. Dismantle the duck as you would a chicken, and separate the thighs
and legs from the breasts. Bone the breasts, and save the breastbones,
neckbones, and backs for stock. Mix up your liquid and seasoning as you
would for oven-fried chicken and dredge the legs and thighs: place on a pan
and place in the oven at 350 farenheit. Add the breasts after 15 minutes,
and bake until done, about 3/4 hour, depending on how well-done you like
your poultry. While this is going on, put the skin and fat in a frying pan
and fry until you have cracklings, drain on a paper towel. Present all on
the same platter, sectioned by body part, and heave a sigh of relief.

Note: I am assuming you're using commercial duck, rather than wild. Wild
duck is wonderful but, if it has been fed on fish, has other techniques
necessary to remove the fish taste from the meat. Also, wild duck is leaner
than domestic duck. As an average, you should figure on 1/2 duck per person.

 Phlip


Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 13:35:00 -0800
From: DUNHAM Patricia R <Patricia.R.DUNHAM at ci.eugene.or.us>
Subject: RE: SC - ANST - Duck recipe

Our favorite (only) duck recipe is :

Thaw, remove obvious extraneous fat.
Wash and pat dry. Rub inside with lemon juice, sprinkle with 1/2 of
ginger salt (2 T salt + 1 T ginger)

Stuff with Apricot Stuffing: Saute 1 med onion, chopped, in 4T butter
(we put this together in the wok), add 3 c. cooked bulgur and mix.  Add
1 c. dried apricots chopped (cut in at least quarters) and 1/2 c walnut
pieces.  Moisten with 1 c. chicken stock.  Heat thoroughly (5-10
mintes).  CAVEAT-- THIS QUANTITY OF STUFFING IS ENOUGH FOR 2 DUCKS.

Set up duck high in a poultry rack in roasting pan.    The type of rack
- --   _\_/_    --  where the sides there swivel and you prop them up with
a support piece that's attached?  You set it about as vertical as you
can get it.  In a deep baking dish to catch all the fat that's going to
run off.

Prick the upper skin areas, lemon juice on the outside, sprinkle with
remaining ginger salt.

Roast at 350 for 2 1/2 hrs.  Basting is NOT necessary and will ruin the
ginger-salt layer that forms on the skin.  "Serves 4-6."

This makes a yummy salt glaze, the stuffing absorbs enough fat to make
it real tasty, and most of the river of duck-fat runs off through the
pricking.  We find that a normal supermarket- size duck usually produces
around one to one and a half cups of duckfat?  over 1/4 inch deep in a
9x13 pan, so do have high-sided pans, not cookie sheets!

I can't claim more than perioid for this, tho I think it originally came
from a magazine article for a historic holiday feast, so there may be a
virtuous antecedent somewhere... anybody recognize it?  I have cooked
this in quantity, for a kingdom twelfth night (250-300?); I don't at
this moment remember if we did one or two per table-of-8.  Considering
how little meat there is on breast and drumstick, probably 2.

Chimene


Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 17:56:58 -0500 (EST)
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: SC - Duck Sauce-OOP

Duck Sauce

1 can Cherry Pie Filling
1 Orange, sliced

Put pie filling and orange slices in a saucepan.  Bring to a slow boil.
Reduce heat to low. Continue cokking for 10 mins. stirring frequently to
prevent scorching.. Spoon over individual roast duck portions.

Ras


Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 08:58:23 -0500
From: Margo Lynn Hablutzel <Hablutzel at compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: ANST - Duck recipe
To: "ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG" <ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG>

Something you need to remember is that duck is not bred for meat, and so
you get a lot of bone and grease and not as much meat as on a
comparably-sized chicken or turkey.  You have to be careful to cook the
duck slowly so it does not dry out, and you have to check carefully to be
sure you have enough for servings for all.  Read up in a good cookbook
about duck before starting.

My experience with duck has been rather limited because of this, in
addition to which my family is full of die-hard traditionalists, and I had
an uncle who smoked our turkeys whenever it was their turn to host the
family for Thanksgiving (or any other excuse we could talk him into!).

           |\     THIS is the cutting edge of technology! 
 8+%%%%%%%%I=================================================---
           |/   Morgan Cely Cain * Hablutzel at compuserve.com


Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 13:00:09 +1100 (EST)
From: Charles McCN <charlesn at sunrise.srl.rmit.edu.au>
Subject: SC - SC Duck (mmm duck)

Ducks spit roast well. Put it on a stick, nail it in place (Use a steel 
nail, not a galvanised one) and roast over the fire. Stuffing is not a 
bad idea. (As Phlip said, fruit makes a good stuffing. There is a recipe 
for grapes and bread which I believe is period)

To make a sauce (I don't recall the original reference, but it was 
presented as period), cook the liver, with a bit of wine, saffron, honey, 
onion and parsley, and pepper.
Yum.

Also roasted ducks feet are good, but you need a sauce. (Wash them 
THOROUGHLY, and roast them in a tray with duck fat.

OOP, fill the duck with onions, and put in a tray with potatoes, carrots, 
pumpkin, and serve with salad. 

Charles
(Gotta go visit my friend who keeps ducks...


Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 20:43:22 EDT
From: allilyn at juno.com
Subject: SC - Re: Ice Dragon Duck

Got my computer almost all working again!  Here's the peri-oide recipe
for duck from last Ice Dragon.  There were a couple of pages of
documentation of various ways that duck was prepared in period sources.

Ice Dragon Duck

1 duck, 3-4 lbs.				2 C. chicken broth
1 C. chopped onion			3 T. white wine
3 T. raisins				2 T. currants
1 T. rose hips		
Pinches of grains of paradise, cinnamon, blades of mace, salt
Pinches of rosemary, fresh thyme, sorrell
Stuffing: 1 C. green grapes, 3/4 C. unblanched almonds

I simmered the duck in the broth and flavoring until very tender, turning
once.  I removed the duck from the broth, allowed it to cool, removed the
skin, wing tips, and bones, setting the meat aside.  The meat was sliced,
where thick enough.  The broth was strained.  After removing the woody
bits of the herbs and spices, the grapes, raisins, currants and almonds
were run through the blender with some of the broth, in order to make a
sauce.  The duck meat and sauce traveled separately, and were combined
and heated for the contest.

I wanted a slightly sweet, rich, spicy taste to the sauce and the meat,
as I thought that the stronger taste of duckócompared to chicken, capon,
et al, would benefit from the rich flavorings.  Rose hips were used in
place of rose water.  Rose water tends to be a little too sweet for the
taste I wanted for this particular dish.

Without a precise recipe to follow, this is peri-oid rather than
demonstrably period, but I feel it would not have been out of place in a
fifteenth century menu.  Attached copies of period writings demonstrate a
variety of ways in which duck, or poultry, was served in period.  These
are not all the recipes in period, or even all the recipes from any given
source.  I simply wanted to show a variety.
3/18/99

Allison,     allilyn at juno.com


Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 14:42:55 EDT
From: allilyn at juno.com
Subject: Re: SC - Determining Duck Doneness

Le Menagier de Paris  	Translated by Janet Hinson

SAUCE TO BOIL IN PIES OF YOUNG WILD DUCK, DUCKLING, YOUNG RABBIT OR WILD
RABBIT. Take lots of good cinnamon, ginger, clove, grains, half a nutmeg
and mace, galingale, and grind very well, and soak in half verjuice and
half vinegar, and the sauce should be clear. And when the pie is just
about done, throw this sauce inside it and return to the oven to boil
once.

(Note that the young wild duck are those which cannot yet fly until they
have felt the August rain.)

You can tell young ducks from old ones, when they are all the same size,
by the quills which on the young ones are more tender.--Item, you have to
know which ones are from the river, with delicate black toe-nails and red
feet, while those from the stable-yard have yellow feet. Item, the crest
of the head, that is to say the top, is green throughout its length, and
sometimes the males have a white patch across their necks at the nape,
and they all have very changeable plumage, including that on top of the
head.

Wood Duck also; note that they come every three years.

Note that at Besiers they sell two sorts of wood pigeons, one sort being
small, and they are not the best, for the large ones have a better flavor
and eat acorns in the woods like pigs do; and they are eaten au boussac
like a coney, and cut in fourths: and sometimes in a young wild duck
sauce, and roast a la dodine; or if you want to keep them, let them be
put in larded pastry. And they are in season from Saint Andrew's Day
(November 30) until Lent, and they are only available every three years.

II. Another Meat Dinner of Twenty-four Dishes with Six Platters.

Fourth dish. River ducks a la dodine, tench both in soups and molded with
hot sauce[8] 26, fat capons in ...........

Supper. - Soup of twelve dozen goslings or of ten ducks

Chiquart
Pottages combining meat and duck, or other poultry

...and check that the meat is not overcooked, because the kid and veal
are more tender than the poultry. And when your meat is cooked to the
right point and one wants to arrange it for serving, put your meat
separately and put it on serving dishes and then put the said broth on
top....

Platina
Milham
Book V.
3.  On Goose and Duck
[anecdotes on geese]
Ducks are not much different from geese.  There is value only in the
breasts, as Martial says, and necks; give the rest back to the Cook. 
Goose flesh has warmer force than duck.

Book VI
 2.How Tame and Wild Birds Should be Cooked
Boil amphibious birds, that is, those seeking food on land and water;
goose, swan, duck, crane, stork, and others of almost the same nature. 
[etc.]

Le Viandier de Taillevent
James Prescott
55.  River mallards.
Pluck it dry, put it on the spit without head or feet, and collect the
fat to make the Dodine [Sauce] (to wit, add [almond] milk, wine or
verjuice, with some parsley).  [Make] long thin grilled sops.  Eat it
with fine salt.

These are snippets from my Duck file.  I'd judge that the duck was
expected to be pretty well cooked, from the boiling, soups, fat rendered
out, etc.  I've never eaten duck as rare as you describe.  In fact, I
cook all poultry thoroughly, and have always had it cooked so in
restaurants.  I know we have other professional cooks on the list--how
done is your duck??????

Allison,     allilyn at juno.com


Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 16:45:07 +1000
From: "Glenda Robinson" <glendar at compassnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: SC - In need of duck/goose recipes...

The two fat ladies say to pour boiling water over your goose before cooking
it. This contracts the follicles. We've tried it once, and it worked well.
Then prick (this works with a duck too) to let the fat drain. Baste both
regularly.

Glenda.


Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 07:50:29 -0400
From: margali <margali at 99main.com>
Subject: Re: SC - In need of duck/goose recipes...

Goose
Take your goose, remove any large pieces of fat that are in the body cavity and reserve.Cut little slits in the skin without cutting the flesh and rub with salt and pepper. Tuck an onion and 2 apples sliced in quarters in the body cavity. Place in a roasting pan and pop in the oven at
425 degrees fahrenheit, and baste with pan drippings every 15 minutes or so for the first hour. Cover and cook for another 30-45 minutes, then baste and check for doneness. Baste periodically until it is done [I use the leg wiggle trick, if the leg joint moves freely, your goose is cooked...]

Take prosciutto, have the deli slice it 1/4 inch thick slices. Take about 4 slices and cut them into 1/4 inch dice. Take a good waxy potato and cut into small dice. Take the reserved goose fat and place in a heavy skillet. make homefries of the potato and prosciutto, seasoning with
freshly cracked black pepper or mingionette pepper[a blend of green, black, white and pink pepper corns] I find the prosciutto makes it unneedful to use salt, it has a nice rich taste to it.

Take a red cabbage and chop coarsly, saute with butter until almost done then add 2 sliced apples and saute until the apples are soft. Finish with a dressing of 1/2 cup red wine or cider vinegar, brown sugar and a small amount of black pepper, ground caraway seed and powdered galengale
[about 1/8 tsp each]

margali


Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 13:33:15 -0000
From: nanna at idunn.is (Nanna Rognvaldardottir)
Subject: Re: SC - In need of duck/goose recipes...

I’ve had excellent results with steaming the duck (place it breast side down
on a roasting rack above a pan with some stock, cover tightly with foil,
place in a hot oven and steam for about an hour. Then uncover the duck and
pour away most of the stock and fat, brush with glaze and roast until
gloriously dark golden and crispy.

I can email the exact recipe to you if you wish, or you can find it here:
http://food4.epicurious.com/HyperNews/get/archive_swap29201-29300/29226.html

I have since experimented with other types of glaze and a simple soy
sauce/honey glaze also works well.

I’ve found that this recipe gives you a tender and juicy bird with a crispy
skin every time, and much of the fat is melted off by the steaming.

Nanna


Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 00:17:26 -0500
From: Stefan li Rous <stefan at texas.net>
Subject: SC - In need of duck/goose recipes..

Angus MacIomhair asked:
> I've got a small problem...
> I plan on cooking duck or goose this saturday.
> While I enjoy the taste of both I haven't had too much experience in cooking either of them. =(

I had never cooked a duck before, but last Yule, with some simple
instructions from Phlip, I cooked one that came out fairly well. Good
enough that I turned around and did two more with the same recipe for 
my Crown Luncheon at Candlemas. The Crown and Entourage seemed to like
it. There wasn't any left over.

This is edited from a computer chat conversation with Phlip. While still
a bit rough, I think you should be able to follow it.

- -----------
Basic duck roasting, 101-

When you roast a duck, remove all the loose interior fat, and wash 
it in cold water. Cut off the neck skin (use it to roast in strips 
along with the rest of the duck).
Throw the fat in the bottom of the pan, and let it render.

Take a fork, and pierce the skin all over, without piercing 
the flesh- to do that easily, pinch it up and pierce that.

Bare neck gets saved with the wings, for stock.

Then, take your duck, and salt the living bloody blue blazes 
out of it, inside and out.

Slow roast them for 2 hours, at about 250 degrees.
Breast side up, placed on a grill so all the fat can drain.

When almost but not entirely done, Skin them, and disjoint them, 
having previously removed the wings to save for stock.
Cut the skin into strips, and cook them until they're crispy.
Breast meat should be rare.
The skin should almost be done to cracklins.

Arrange the sliced breast meat on the platter around the outside, 
then put the legs and thighs on one interior end of the breast meat, 
and the skin on the other.

Can be served hot, but still tastes good luke warm to cold.

OK. Now, easy sauce......
A jar of jam or preserves- I used strawberry for Thanksgiving, but 
marmalade or boysenberry, or whatever will work as well.

Half that volume of a dry red wine, in which you've steeped whole 
peppers for several hours or overnight, and strained.

Mix together, heat, and serve next to the duck. If you can, set it 
up so it stays warm and liquid over Sterno or a votive candle type 
of thing, but it also is good, if a bit solid, cold.

I use whole pepper because they are easier to strain out.

Heating the wine with the peppers in it and reducing it helps too, 
if you're short on time.

You don't want the sauce real hot, just liquid.
Another variation for the sauce, is to add an additional 1/4 of 
the jam volume hot pepper jelly.

Won't be greasy, if you pierce the skin, salt the duck, then render 
down the skin- at least, no more greasy than well-cooked french 
fries or donuts.
- -- 
Lord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra
Mark S. Harris             Austin, Texas           stefan at texas.net


Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 11:13:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Stanifer <jugglethis at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: SC - duck and bread

- --- Susan Fox-Davis <selene at earthlink.net> wrote:
> OTOH, I have a surfeit of rendered duck fat still
> sitting in my freezer from parboiling
> the little darlings back at Twelfth Night, and it
> really needs to get used ASAP.
> 
> Selene

Extra duck fat?  Sounds like Confit makin's to me...
Actually, duck fat can be stored in a crock at room
temp for a good long while.  I use it, on rare
occasion, as a shortening in my "Duck Stuffed Bread"
(for lack of a better name).  Duck Confit and Port
Poached Duck Breast, baked inside a free-form French
loaf.  It's a very nice picnic bread, and travels very
well (until you slice it).  My son loves it, and we
eat it with Fontina cheese and sparkling apple cider
(although I'm pretty sure that wine would be good with
it, too...)

As for the Bsteeya (Bstilla, Pastilla), I use ground
Pistachios, and place them between the phyllo sheets
for the top crust.  This adds a world of texture and
flavor.  I haven't used duck fat for the crust yet,
but now I'll have to think about it....

Balthazar of Blackmoor


Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 14:57:38 -0000
From: "Olwen the Odd" <olwentheodd at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: SC - OOP Re: what we had for T-day

As for geese, they are ok.  They can dry out fast even though they are like 
duck in the fat storage arena.  Cut off the long tips of the wings, same as 
on duck. I cook mine suspended on a rack, I have a pan of water under them, 
same as duck, but near the end I place a clean linen on it and keep it 
saturated with broth.

Olwen


Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 21:58:40 -0500 (EST)
From: "Marilyn Traber" <margali at 99main.com>
Subject: Re: SC - My Goose, not yet cooked...

> Now i'm toying with the idea of cooking goose along with the roast 
> pork. Is this a reasonable idea for 80-90 people? Roughly, how many 
> people does a modern goose feed?
> 
> I worry about how to cook my goose when i get an idea of whether or 
> not this is possibly affordable.
> 
> Anahita al-shazhiyya

Well, when Rob and I do a goose, and part it out carefully we can squeeze 6 people out of one and have a carcass for rendering into 
stock. Certain parts when roasted are more useable as stock makings rather than eating like the wings, both double wing sections don't 
have much in the way of meat but are great for stock. The legs themselves are about the same amount of meat as a chicken, and the 
thighs are a bit skinny also. But then again, a goose whole for 6 people, roasted nicely would be great looking and very opulent feeling. 
Unfortunately, unless you are going to raise them, or hit up the local butchers wholesaler and buy a serious large quantity of them they 
may prove to be a bit more expensive than you are willing to pay.

margali


Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 21:31:06 -0800
From: Poong <sfpoong at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: SC - My Goose, not yet cooked...

Stefan li Rous wrote:
> Okay, then can you tell us more about this method or find out from her
> what this method involves?

Since you asked . . . .

The Goose's Details

Here is Sir Mistress Hilary's Fool-proof method of cooking the world's most
delicious goose. (i.e.: savory goose that is not fatty)

1. Remove innards and rinse inside. Rub the entire goose, inside and out with a
mixture of half coarse salt and half crushed, raw garlic. Don't worry about
peeling the garlic because you will be discarding it later. Let it rest over
night.

2. Before cooking, rinse the goose really, really well. Put some apple and onion
inside as Hilary says "as an offering to the goose god; discard them at the end
of roasting."

3. Place on baking rack in a 500 oven for 30 minutes then suck off the fat.

4. Reduce the oven temp to 325 and cook for 25 minutes per pound.

5. After a few hours of cooking the top of the goose should be covered to prevent over browning. Old linen hankies work best but a loose tent of foil will work if you don't have linen.

6. Suck off fat every 15 to 20 minutes occasional basting top of bird with fat.
Keep an eye through the oven door and get fat as needed - probably 20 min after
you reduce heat and maybe half-hourly after that. There's a trade-off: if the fat sits in the pan with the juices, it gets goosier, but if it gets so deep it's over the rack you stew the goose.

7. Occasionally, after you suck off most of the fat, put the bulb-baster inside
the goose and pull out the liquid accumulating there. Dump it into the pan to
brown. Pull some fat from an area away from the juice and baste the goose with it (rinsing the juice out of the baster in the process).

Hilary saves the goose grease (her original motivation to have the goose party
was to get more grease) and uses it to replace most fat when cooking. The fat
that comes off the goose towards the end has a much goosier taste than the fat in the beginning. The fat keeps a long time in jars in the fridge.

This is one of Hilary's post goose fav's:
"Try a goose sammich - toast brown bread, spread lightly with goose fat, add a
layer of mild cheese (and lettuce or cabbage if you like that sort of thing).
Instant goose!"

I saw a period German recipe for goose soup: "Take fat from a goose that has been roasted and heat it with milk and sprinkle toasted bread crumbs on top."

Beatrice Merryfield


Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 17:33:01 -0000
From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Nanna_R=F6gnvaldard=F3ttir?=" <nannar at isholf.is>
Subject: Re: SC - Wolves are our cute furry friends..

>Elizabeth David wrote "How to cook a wolf",
but she used the word metaphorically, and it's a 20th century book.

The author was M.F.K. Fisher, actually. And no, there aren't any wolf
recipes, and no medieval recipes, although she quotes this rather intriguing
17th century recipe (from Secrets of Nature by Wesker, published in 1660):

"Take the goose, pull off the feathers, make a fire about her, not too close
for smoke to choke her, or burn her too soon, not too far off so she may
escape. Put small cups of water with salt and honey ... also dishes of apple
sauce. Baste goose with butter. She will drink water to relieve thirst, eat
apples to cleanse and empty her of dung. Keep her head and heart wet with a
sponge. When she gets giddy from running and begins to stumble, she is
roasted enough. Take her up, set her before the guests; she will cry as you
cut off any part and will be almost eaten before she is dead ... It is
mighty pleasant to behold."

Nanna


Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 00:53:34 +0200
From: tgl at mailer.uni-marburg.de
Subject: SC - Nanna's/ Porta's recipe for roasted goose

Nanna,

according to Wiswe (Kulturgeschichte der Kochkunst, 138) the goose
recipe you quoted is extant earlier in the works of Giambattista Porta
and Alessio Piemontese (both 16th c.; there are 17th c. editions, too).
It seems that this recipe was wandering, it is also reprinted in
Balthasar Schnurr's 'Hausbuch' (German, 17th c.). And I guess one could
find still more places. On the one hand, this indicates that the recipe
was a 'literary' phenomenon, handed down and copied for its
'strangeness' in the collections of curiosities. E.g., Schnurr did not
place this text in the cookery section of his book but in the section
called "Wunder-B¸chlein"!

On the other hand: Porta reports (that he heard from old men) that this
recipe was done several times at the court of the kings of Arragon and
that _he_ prepared it too in company:
   "A little before our times, a goose was wont to be brought to
    the table of the King of Arragon, that was roasted alive, as 
    I have heard by old men of credit. And when I went to try it, 
    ... The rule to do it is thus ..." (follows the preparation;
    Porta, book 14, online-ed. by Scott L. Davis).

Th.
(see also Thorndike, A history of magic and experimental science, VI
421, Fn. 76, quoted by Wiswe.)


Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 06:07:32 -0600
From: Robert Downie <rdownie at mb.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: Cruel food
To: Susan Browning <daubrecicourt at earthlink.net>,	Cooks within the SCA
	<sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Susan Browning wrote:
> Can't quote you the source, but I have seen a recipe on how to cook a
> chicken/goose? alive, and start to eat it while it is still living.
>
> Eleanor

Thesewere convieniently located on the Gode Cookery website:
Faerisa

A Goose roasted alive - from Magia Naturalis:
A Goose roasted alive. A little before our times, a Goose was wont to be
brought to the table of the King of Arragon, that was roasted alive, as I have
heard by old men of credit. And when I went to try it, my company were so
hasty, that we ate him up before he was quite roasted. He was alive, and the
upper part of him, on the outside, was excellent well roasted. The rule to do
it is thus. Take a Duck, or a Goose, or some such lusty creature, but the Goose
is best for this purpose. Pull all the Feathers from  his body, leaving his
head and his neck. Then make a fire round about him, not too narrow, lest the
smoke choke him, or the fire should roast him too soon. Not too wide, lest he
escape unroasted. Inside set everywhere little pots full of water, and put Salt
and Meum to them. Let the Goose be smeared all over with Suet, and well Larded,
that he may be the better meat, and roast the better. Put the fire about, but
make not too much haste. When he begins to roast, he will walk about, and
cannot get forth, for the fire stops him. When he is weary, he quenches his
thirst by drinking the water, by cooling his heart, and the rest of his
internal parts. The force of the Medicament loosens and cleans his belly, so
that he grows empty. And when he is very hot, it roasts his inner parts.
Continually moisten his head and heart with a Sponge. But when you see him run
mad up and down, and to stumble (his heart then wants moisture), wherefore you
take him away, and set him on the table to your guests, who will cry as you
pull off his parts. And you shall eat him up before he is dead.

Porta, Giambattista della. Magia Naturalis.
<http://members.tscnet.com/pages/omard1/jportac14.html> (June 9, 2001)

To make a Chicken be Served Roasted - from The Vivendier:

<see chickens-msg>

Scully, Terence. The Vivendier. Devon: Prospect Books, 1997.


Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 14:29:11 -0800 (PST)
From: Carole Smith <renaissancespirit2 at yahoo.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Thanksgiving duck
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

I'll be here alone, and Rob's getting me a duck (my favorite poultry).

I think I'd like to do something period with it, but not sure what. Last time
they left me here, I did the entire Peking Duck thing, and had a  
marvelous time puttering and cooking and carrying on.

Anybody have any suggestions? I do know I want it with a crispy skin  
(best part, and DAMN the low cholesterol diet ;-) 

Phlip

   You could cook the duck as in Sawse Madame - Forme of Cury #32. -  
Stuff the bird with pear, quince, seedless grapes, garlic, sage,  
parsley, hyssop and savory.  Roast on a pan with a rack so you can  
easily remove rendered fat during the roasting process.

   When making the sauce, cook together wine,  
stuffing removed from the duck, some of the "grece", galingal, pouder  
douce and salt.  Cook it down a bit and pour over the dismembered bird.

   Cordelia Toser


Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2012 20:50:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Tre <trekatz at yahoo.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Which wine for mallard recipe

I'm looking at serving wild mallard at a feast at the end of this month. Here's a link to the recipe I'm currently planning on using:

http://www.godecookery.com/nboke/nboke80.html

The recipe calls for dry wine and for wine vinegar. I'm not sure whether I should use red or white wine, or whether it would really matter. Any suggestions? 

Ceara


Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 06:52:47 -0500
From: Sharon Palmer <ranvaig at columbus.rr.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Which wine for mallard recipe

<<< I'm looking at serving wild mallard at a feast at the end of this 
month. Here's a link to the recipe I'm currently planning on using:

http://www.godecookery.com/nboke/nboke80.html

The recipe calls for dry wine and for wine vinegar. I'm not sure 
whether I should use red or white wine, or whether it would really 
matter. Any suggestions? >>>

Take Conyng, Hen, or Mallard, and roste him al-moste ynowe; or elles 
choppe hem, and fry hem in fressh grece; and fry oynons myced, and 
cast al togidre into a potte, and caste there-to Canell; then stepe 
faire brede with the same broth, and drawe hit thorgh a streynour 
with vinegre. And when hit hath wel boiled, caste the licour thereto, 
and pouder ginger, and vinegre, and ceson hit vppe, and then thou 
shall serue hit forth.

I don't see why the redaction has wine.  It's not mentioned in the 
original. (Neither are cloves and mace, except as "season it up"). 
Unless they were looking at other versions of the recipe too.

Ranvaig


Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 09:13:11 -0500
From: Alexander Clark <alexbclark at pennswoods.net>
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Which wine for mallard recipe

<< The recipe calls for dry wine and for wine vinegar. I'm not sure
whether I should use red or white wine, or whether it would really
matter. Any suggestions? >>

<<< Take Conyng, Hen, or Mallard, and roste him al-moste ynowe; or elles
choppe hem, and fry hem in fressh grece; and fry oynons myced, and
cast al togidre into a potte, and caste there-to Canell; then stepe
faire brede with the same broth, and drawe hit thorgh a streynour
with vinegre. And when hit hath wel boiled, caste the licour thereto,
and pouder ginger, and vinegre, and ceson hit vppe, and then thou
shall serue hit forth.

I don't see why the redaction has wine.  It's not mentioned in the
original. (Neither are cloves and mace, except as "season it up").
Unless they were looking at other versions of the recipe too. >>>

That recipe that doesn't mention wine, et al., is not really the
original. It's just someone's transcription of Austin's published
transcription. And it's missing a few words:

". . . caste there-to fressh broth and half wyne; . . . Cloues, Maces,
powder of Peper, . . ."

So apparently the author of the modern interpretation was working
directly and carefully from Austin, while some large errors got into
the new transcription.

P. S. That is to say, the interpretation was much more careful than
the new transcription, but they still cheated a bit by substituting
butter for grease for frying, and by putting in the vinegar before the
final seasoning. They also substituted oven-roasting for
spit-roasting, and by their own admission intentionally skipped the
part where you strain the soaked bread.

P. P. S. I find it interesting that they specified that the pepper
should be "powder". Maybe this is supposed to be another of the
recipes where the cloves and maces are put in whole.
-- 
Henry of Maldon/Alex Clark


Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 19:5:33 -0800
From: "David Friedman"  <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA  <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Which wine for mallard recipe

For purposes of comparison, our redaction from the Miscellany:

4 1/2 lb duckling,
or 3 lbs chicken
or 3 lb rabbit
1/4 t mace
1/4 t pepper
1 t cinnamon
lard for frying
6 slices bread
1/2 lb onions
2 T red wine vinegar
2 c chicken broth
1/4 t ginger
1 c wine
[1/2 t salt]
? t cloves
1 T vinegar

Roast the duck, chicken or rabbit for about
an hour and a quarter. Bone the meat, or break
it into small pieces. Chop onions and fry them
in 2 t of the drippings for about five minutes,
until they turn yellow. Add dismembered
chicken (or ?), broth, wine, cloves, mace,
pepper and cinnamon to the pot, bring to a
simmer, and cook twenty minutes.
Meanwhile, tear up the bread, spoon about
1 c of the liquid from the pot over the bread,
and let it soak for 3-4 minutes. Add 2 T
vinegar, force through a strainer or mash very
thoroughly, and add to the pot along with
ginger and another T of vinegar. Bring back to
a boil, stirring, and serve.


Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2016 22:49:25 -0500
From: Alec Story <avs38 at cornell.edu>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Chinese Roast Goose / Duck

I translated this recipe with a friend of mine who had an extra roast duck
thawing and wanted to do something with it.  I thought I'd share.

Use goose or duck breast meat. If whole, use a hammer to shatter the bones.
Take up ginger, pepper [sichuan or black, unclear], sourpeel tangerine [*Citrus reticulata*] peel, scallion, barbarian [western] celery, rocambole [or sandleeks, unclear], salt, and fermented beans. Cut them and join them, and then smear it over the meat. Roast it whole on a skewer. Cleave off the
breast meat, and take the bones, and lay it out like you had made common
boiled duck.

The original:

This recipe is from Qimin Yaoshu
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qimin_Yaoshu>, a 544 CE farm manual from
northwest China.

She was lacking some of the ingredients and made some daring substitutions,
but this sounds like  a pretty reasonable recipe to me.  The sour orange
peel is used in traditional Beijing Duck preparation today.
-- 
??rfinnr Hr??geirsson

<the end>
Edited by Mark S. Harris	duck-goose-msg	Page 3 of 17