chopped-meat-msg - 10/11/04
Period chopped meat. Differences between chopped and ground meat.
NOTE: See also the files: meat-rolled-msg, meatloaf-msg, minced-meat-art, roast-meats-msg, pickled-meats-msg, steaks-msg, whole-pig-msg, Braised-Beef-art.
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Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous
Stefan at florilegium.org
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Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 07:26:01 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: Steak Tartar (Was Re: [Sca-cooks] Capers caper)
Stefan li Rous wrote:
> We have had discussions here previously about how close hamburger or
> ground meats approximate the similar period meat treatment, which
> would be finely chopping it with a knife, which you seem to have
> actually done.
>
> How would you compare the textures? How much time does it take you
> to finely chop it enough?
The main areas of difference are these, as far as I'm concerned. Others
may have other issues. In ground meat, the connective tissue (which of
course is rather low in a beef tenderloin for the tartare example) is
sort of pulled apart, often separated from the meat, and sometimes
gathered together by the grinder, sometimes not. Essentially, when you
do get gristle, it tends to be... impressive. When you chop the meat,
everything gets chopped. Same for fat. The fat is often obliterated to a
greasy smear by a grinder; chopped fat is merely chopped, mixed with the
meat, and does its job to keep the whole thing moist. (Recall that
sausage recipes generally call for hard back or kidney fat, sometimes
even cubed by hand, rather than soft or, G-d help us, rendered fat, as a
rule. The logic is the same.)
In short, chopped meat, while perhaps being more granular in texture
than ground meat, is also somehow more homogeneous, overall. Yes, it is
a paradox, but true nonetheless. And the little granules feel different
in the mouth than the semi-crushed, semi-extruded threads from a grinder do.
Adamantius
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 14:22:12 -0400
From: margali <margali at 99main.com>
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: Steak Tartar + Chocolate mousse recipe
I favor the chinese 2 cleaver method on a very solid butchers
block. Place meat on block, clear the area of enquiring toddlers
and nosy roommates and holding the cleavers in paralell, start
chopping, and periodically scrape the pile of meat back into the
center to get the bigger bits. My wrists are going, but Rob can
total out a sizeable hunk of meat in fairly short order.
Especially great if you are at a camping event and want to make
anything with any sort of finely minced meat. The size of the
meat fragments is actually fairly controlable with practice.
margali
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 14:27:44 +0000
From: nickiandme at att.net
Subject: [Sca-cooks] RE: Meep! - Needing quick beef pastry recipe!
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org (Group-SCACooks)
<deleted>
Filling:
1 lb. ground mutton or beef
<more deleted>
I find it interesting that they say ground mutton or beef. I prefer to
use the medieval shredded meats. It gives the end product a totally
different texture and even flavor. The flavor seems to be more intense
in shredded meats with the same amount of spices as does that of
commercially ground meats.
Kateryn de Devleyn
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 10:37:19 -0400
From: "Jeff Gedney" <gedney1 at iconn.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Meep! - Needing quick beef pastry recipe!
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
I have found a HUGE difference in both texture and flavor between
using preground raw meats and boiling then grinding/shreading chunk or
whole meats.
When the recipe calls for boiling meat and "smyting" it "small" to be
mixed with other ingredients, like eggs etc, I think that if they are
boiled then shredded the meat is superior.
Especially if you are boiling in a good broth...
If you take the time to boil chunks of beef in a beef broth, then
fishing them out and cutting them in 1/4 inch slices across the grain,
they fairly come apart completely, and will mix really well into a nice
pastry filling.
Capt Elias
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 11:40:09 -0400
From: Daniel Myers <edouard at medievalcookery.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] RE: Meep! - Needing quick beef pastry recipe!
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
On Jul 27, 2004, at 10:27 AM, nickiandme at att.net wrote:
> <deleted>
> Filling:
> 1 lb. ground mutton or beef
> <more deleted>
>
> I find it interesting that they say ground mutton or beef. I prefer
> to use the medieval shredded meats. It gives the end product a
> totally different texture and even flavor. The flavor seems to be
> more intense in shredded meats with the same amount of spices as does
> that of commercially ground meats.
Being the "they" in question, I originally made this recipe with time
and ease of preparation in mind. Modernly, it is far quicker and
easier to work with ground beef than it is to mince the same quantity
of meat. All that being said, there *is* a notable difference in
flavor and texture. I have made this recipe both ways (and with both
beef and mutton) and I also prefer the minced beef to the ground - but
it's still quite tasty the other way.
I'll be updating the recipe to reflect all this - thanks for pointing
it out!
- Doc
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Edouard Halidai (Daniel Myers)
http://www.medievalcookery.com/
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