chicken-msg - 3/20/08 Period and SCA recipes for chicken. NOTE: See also these files: recipes-msg, birds-recipes-msg, fowls-a-birds-msg, butchering-msg, falconry-msg, roast-chicken-msg, chck-n-pastry-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ From: DDF2 at cornell.edu (David Friedman) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Lothar and pot lucks Date: 17 Nov 1993 01:10:06 GMT Organization: Cornell Law School motto at cbnewsf.cb.att.com (mary.rita.otto) wrote: > I was thinking of bringing a roasted stuffed goose. Would that be > alright (I'm avoiding turkey)? Does anyone know how it would be > stuffed or trimmed in period? What spices would be used? I don't seem to have any worked out goose recipes. Here are a couple for chicken that might help a little: Roast Chicken Platina book 6 <See the file: roast-chicken-msg> Chykens in Hocchee Curye on Inglysch p. 105 (Forme of Cury no. 36) Take chykens and scald hem. Take persel and sawge, with other erbes; take garlec & grapes, and stoppe the chikenus ful, and see them in gode broth, so that they may esely be boyled therinne. Messe hem & cast therto powdour dowce. 3 1/2 lb chicken 3/4 oz = ~10 cloves garlic powder douce: 4 T parsley 1/2 lb red grapes 1 t sugar 1 1/2 t sage 2 10.5 oz cans conc. chicken 1/4 t mace 1 t marjoram broth + 2 cans water 1/4 t cinnamon 1 3/4 t thyme Note that all herbs are fresh. Clean the chicken, chop parsley and sage fine then mix with herbs in a bowl. Herbs are fresh, measured chopped and packed down. Take leaves off the fresh marjoram and thyme and throw out the stems, remove as much stem from parsley as practical. Add garlic cloves whole, if very large halve. Add grapes, and thoroughly but gently mix with the herbs. Stuff the chicken with the herbs, garlic and grapes. Close the bird with a few toothpicks. Place chicken in pot with broth and cook on stove top over moderate heat 1/2 hour, turn over, another 1/4 hour (in covered pot). Serve on platter with powder douce sprinkled over. -- David/Cariadoc DDF2 at Cornell.Edu From: jtn at nutter.cs.vt.edu (Terry Nutter) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Recipe for Drunken Chicken, etc. Date: 3 Apr 1994 01:21:29 GMT Greetings, all, from Angharad ver' Rhuawn. Several people have asked for the "drunken chicken" and pynade recipes to which Yaakov recently referred. Here they are. In each case, I've given several 14th (and in one case a 15th) century recipes for the same dish. _Curye on Inglysch_ is a collection of 14th C English manuscripts; the two letter reference for recipes from the collection identifies the manuscript, the following number the recipe number within the collection, and the last number the page on which it appears. The last version of pynade, from the Austin collection, gives the page number in Austin, followed after a slash by the page number (and quarter of page) in Cariadoc's collection. Mawmenny Recipes (originals) ============================ Maumenee (Curye on Inglysch, DC 7, 45) Wyn; braun of chapoun ipolled al to poudre, & soththen do thryn to boillen with the wyn; alemauns igrounden al drughe & idon thryn, & poudre of clowes idon thryn; alemauns ifried schulen beon idon thryn, & ther schal gret vlehs beon igrounden, & sucre fort abaten the streynthe of the specerie; the colour shal beon inde. Maumene (Curye on Inglysch, DS 30, 68) For to make maumene, tak the thyys other the flesch of the caponys. Sethe hem & kerf hem smal into a morter & tak mylk of almandys wyth broth of fresch buf, & do the flesch in the mylk or in the broth & do yt to the fyre, & myng yt togedere wyth flour of rys othere of wastelys als charchant als the Blank de Sure, & wyth the gholkys of eyryn for to make yt gholow, & safroun. & wan yt ys dressyd in dysches wyth Blank de Sure, straw vpon clowys of gelofre & straw vbon powder of galentyn, & serue yt forthe. Mawmene (Curye on Inglysch, UC 25, 88) Tak figges & reysnes & wasch hem in ale & braye hem wel in a mortere, & do therto wyn, & braye the flesch on hennes or capounes & do therto. & do good almound melk in a pot, & do therto thyn thynges, & stere wel togedere & make it for to sethe. & coloure it with blod of a goot or of a pygg & lok it be sothe & grounde & streyned, & put therto poudere of gyngere & of galyngale & clowes & greyn de parys, & sesen it with sugre & salt it, & do it fro the feere. Mawmenee (Curye on Inglysch, FoC 22, 102) Take a potell of wyne greke and ii pounde of sugur; take and claryfye the sugur with a quantite of wyne & drawe it thurgh a straynour in to a pot of erthe. Take flour of rys and medle with sum of the wyne & cast togydre. Take pynes with dates and frye hem a litell in grece other in oyle and cast hem togydre. Take clowes & flour of canel hool and cast therto. Take powdour gynger, canel, clowes; colour it with saundres a lytel yf hit be nede. Cast salt therto, and lat it seeth warly with a slowe fyre and not to thyk. Take brawn of capouns yteysed other of fesauntes teysed small and cast therto. Mawmenny (Curye on Inglysch, FoC 202, 144) Take the chese and of flessh of capouns or of hennes & hakke smal, and grynde hem smale in a morter. Take mylke of almaundes with the broth of freissh beef other freissh flessh, & put the flessh in the mylke other in the broth, and set hem to the fyre; & alye hem with flour of ryse or gastbon, or amydoun, as chargeaunt as the blanke desire, & with gholkes of ayren and safroun for to make hit ghelow. And when it is dressit in dysshes with blank desire, styk aboue clowes de gilofre, & strawe powdour of galyngale aboue, and serue it forth. Modern Comments =============== Mawmenny is a popular dish, unique to Anglo-Norman cuisine. It appears relatively frequently on surviving menus of elaborate feasts. It was often served in the same dish (one side one, the other the other) with Blanc Desire (sometimes called Blanc de Syry, later Blaundisorry). There are really two different dishes here. One has a broth base; the other is cooked in wine. I've made both, and prefer (my version of) the wine-based to (my version of) the broth-based. There is also an obvious choice whether to grind the meat or leave chunks. They appear most frequently to have ground it all to gruel. I prefer discrete pieces of meat. This does not much influence the flavor, but does affect how moderns respond to the dish. The first time I made this, I didn't use any water, just wine. "Drunken chicken", my personal name for this, refers roughly equally to the state of the dish if made diluted, or the state of the diner if not. Edited Version, with Modern Instructions ======================================== 1 chicken 1/4 tsp cloves 2 c white wine + 1 c water 1 c sugar 1 1/4 c almonds 1/2 tsp ginger 5 oz rice flour 1/4 cup piolas 1. Cook chicken (either boil or roast). 2. Remove meat from skin and bones. 3. Grind almonds. 4. Combine wine, water, sugar, almonds, and rice flour. Heat. 5. Brown piolas. 6. Add spices and simmer briefly. 7. Add piolas. 8. Add chicken. Medieval Recipes for Pynade =========================== Pynite (Curye on Inglysch, DC 21, 47) Wyn, sucre, iboilled togedere; gyngebred & hony, poudre of gynger & of clouwes; ipiht with pynes gret plentee, & schal beon adressed in coffyns of flour of chasteyns; the olour zolou wyth saffroun. Pynade (Curye on Inglysch, DS 91, 79) Tak hony and rotys of radich & grynd yt smal in a morter, & do to that hony a quantite of broun sugur. Tak powder of peper & safroun & almandys, & do al togedere. Boyl hem long & held yt on a wet bord & let yt kele, & messe yt & do yt forth. Pynade (Curye on Inglysch, UC 3, 83) Tak wyn & peres & boyle hem togedere, & tak tosted bred & grynde hem alle togedere & draw hem thorw a streynoure, & tak the thridde part of ceugre or elles lyg hony & tak penes & fry hem in fresch gres. & tak al this togedere & cast in a pot, & boyle it & force it vp with pouder peper, & salt it; & whan it is dressed florsche it with hole maces & clowes & with mynced gyngere & serue it forth. Pynnonade (Curye on Inglysch, FoC 59, 109) Take almaundes iblaunched and drawe hem sumdell thicke with gode broth other with water, and set on the fire and seeth it; cast therto zolkes of ayren ydrawe. Take pynes yfryed in oyle other in grece, and do therto white powdour douce, sugur and salt, & colour it with alkenet a lytel. Pynade (Two Fifteenth Century, H279 Leche Vyaundez iii, 34/59a) Take Hony & gode pouder Gyngere, & Galyngale, & Canelle, Pouder pepir, & graynys of parys, & boyle y-fere; than take kyrnelys of Pynotys & caste ther-to; & take chyconys y-sothe, & hew hem in grece, & caste ther-to, & lat sothe y-fere; & then lat droppe ther-of on a knyf; & ghif it cleuyth & wexyth hard, it ys y-now; & than putte it on a chargere tyl it be cold, & mace lechys, & serue with other metys; & ghif thou wolt make it in spycery, then putte non chykonys ther-to. Modern Comments =============== This is almost candy. Without the chicken, it _is_ candy. Edited Recipe, with Modern Instructions ======================================= 4 T honey 1/8 tsp pepper 1/4 tsp ginger 1/8 tsp grains of paradise 1/8 tsp galingale 2 T pinolas 1 tsp cinnamon 2 boneless chicken breasts 1. Brown pinolas. 2. Grind grains of paradise. 3. Boil all ingredients through grains of paradise. 4. Add pinolas. 5. Cook carefully until it sticks hard to a knife. 6. Chill and serve. Enjoy! -- Angharad/Terry Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Recipe for Drunken Chicken Date: 5 Apr 1994 05:14:00 GMT Greetings, all, from Angharad ver' Rhuawn. Gabriela dei Clementini asks: >Two questions, though. For those of us who are fairly period-cooking- >illiterates (or maybe we just don't speak the same English up here ;-))-- >what are "piolas"? A typo for "pinolas" (oops!), also spelled "pignolas", and sometimes even "pigniolas". > It sounds like they might be pine nuts? Yup. Same things. >Second, in your instructions for Pynade, #3 says "Boil all ingredients >through grains of paradise." Many pictures flitted through my mind, but I >thought it would just be easier to ask if this is a typo.... :-) I meant: combine the ingredients beginning with the first in the list and going on through the list until you have added grains of paradise (but no further) in a pot and bring to a boil. >Thanks for your help, and--again--thanks for the recipes! You're most welcome! -- Angharad/Terry From: mujle at uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Jennifer L Edwards) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Beer in cooking Date: 7 Nov 1994 23:56:26 GMT Organization: Educational Computing Network Since this is an SCA net, and we are supposed to be a historical group. I thought I might give a couple of period recipes with beer (or ale) in them. They are both from Two Fifteenth Century Cookery Books (circa 1420's). The first, I redacted, the second is found is Duke Sir Cariadoc's "A Miscelleny". Chykonys in Bruette 1 whole chicken 3 cups water 12 oz (1 can) beer or ale 1/2 tsp ground black pepper (preferably fresh ground) 2 tsp ground ginger 12 threads of Saffron (ground in 1 Tbs water) 4 Tbs bread crumbs Cut chicken into pieces and place in a large pot. Add water, beer or ale, pepper and ginger. Simmer until chicken is tender and falls off the bone. Strain, saving the broth and remove the skin and bones from the chicken. Return broth and chicken to the heat and bring to a boil. Add bread crumbs and saffron and simmer until thickened. Remove from heat and serve. This is from the Harleian MS 276 (#97). Gwenhwyvar Lawen March of Lochmorrow Jennifer Edwards-Ring Western Illinois University Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: ddfr at quads.uchicago.edu (david director friedman) Subject: Re:Need Recipes Organization: University of Chicago Date: Wed, 23 Nov 1994 14:40:09 GMT This is Elizabeth of Demdermonde posting on Cariadoc's account. "Help! we need recipes for an upcoming event....nothing fancy, just filling (and good!)"--brighid & treise Here are [two] recipes fitting your specifications; they are also period. Don't feel that at your first shot at head cook you cannot hope to make period food: there are a huge number of period recipes out there, ranging from enormously complex to very simple, and these are toward the simple end. What I have below is the period recipe (or a straight English translation of it) first, followed by our worked-out version. All have been done successfully at feasts I have cooked. I suggest you try them out for dinner at home to see if you like them. If you have any questions or for more recipes, email me. All of these are published in the Miscellany which Cariadoc and I sell, as well as lots more recipes and other stuff. Icelandic Chicken Icelandic Medical Miscellany p. 218/D1 (from a 15th century Icelandic manuscript, but actually probably originally 13th c. southern European) Original: One shall cut a young chicken in two and wrap about it whole leaves of salvia, and cut up in it bacon and add salt to suit the taste. Then cover that with dough and bake like bread in the oven. Our version: 5 c flour about 1 3/4 c water 1/2 lb bacon 3 lb chicken, cut in half 3 T dried sage (or sufficient fresh sage leaves to cover) Make a stiff dough by kneading together flour and water. Roll it out. Cover the dough with sage leaves and the sage leaves with strips of bacon. Wrap each half chicken in the dough, sealing it. You now have two packages which contain, starting at the outside, dough, sage, bacon, chicken. Put them in the oven and bake like bread (325! for 2 hours). We find the bacon adds salt enough. The part of the bread at the bottom is particularly good, because of the bacon fat and chicken fat. You may want to turn the loaves once or twice, or baste the top with the drippings. Fricassee of Whatever Meat You Wish from Platina book 6 (15th c. Italian) Original: You make a fricassee from fowl or whatever meat you choose in this way: in a pot with lard, close to the fire, put meat or birds well cleaned and washed, whether cut up finely or in slices. Stir this often with a spoon so that it does not stick to the side of the pot; when it is nearly cooked, take out most of the lard and put in two egg yolks beaten with verjuice and pour in juice and spices mixed into the pot. To this dish add some saffron so that it is more colorful. Likewise, it will not detract from the enjoyment of it to sprinkle finely chopped parsley over the dish. Then serve it immediately to your guests. Our version: 1/4-1/3 c lard fowl or meat: 1 lb boneless meat or chicken 2 egg yolks 2 T verjuice (or 1 T vinegar) RspicesS: 1/4 t pepper 1/8 t cloves 1/4 t cinnamon RjuiceS: 3 T chicken broth 8 threads saffron 1 T parsley 1/4 t salt Cut up meat. Beat egg yolks with verjuice. In another small dish, crush saffron into a little of the broth, then add the rest of the broth and the spices. Chop parsley. Heat lard. Fry meat about 8 minutes, stirring often, then add egg yolk mixture and broth mixture. Cook another 2 minutes. Remove from heat and sprinkle parsley on top. You may want to reduce liquid a good deal for feast quantities. From: Dottie Elliott (10/4/95) To: Mark Harris, sjohns at mail.utexas.edu, fischer at cse.unsw.edu.au ==> Moorish Chicken [from Duke Cariadoc's Miscellany) [original recipe found in] Portuguese p. P-3 Cut up a fat hen and cook on a mild flame, with 2 spoons of fat, some bacon slices, lots of coriander, a pinch of parsley, some mint leaves, salt and a large onion. Cover and let it get golden brown, stirring once in a while. Then cover hen with water and let boil, and season with salt, vinegar, cloves, saffron, black pepper and ginger. When chicken is cooked, pour in 4 beaten yolks. Then take a deep dish, lined with slices of bread, and pour chicken on top. [redaction by David Friedman and Elizabeth Cook] 4 lbs chicken 2 T lard 5 strips bacon (3 1/2 oz) 1/3 c green coriander 1 t parsley 1/2 T mint 1/2 t salt 10 oz onion 2 1/2 c water 2 T vinegar 1/4 t cloves 8 threads saffron 1/2 t pepper 1/2 t ginger 4 egg yolks 6 slices bread (toasted) Dismember chicken (thighs, legs, wings in two pieces, etc.), slice onion, wash and coarsely chop parsley, mint, and coriander. Melt fat, fry bacon a couple of minutes, put chicken, herbs, salt, and onion into pot and fry uncovered about 10 minutes, cover and cook covered another 20 minutes. Add water, vinegar, additional spices, bring to a boil and cook 45 minutes. Toast bread, arrange toast in bowl. Break egg yolks, stir them in and remove pot from heat, and pour into bowl with toast. Note that this is a 15th-century Portuguese idea of an Islamic dish: a real Islamic dish would not have the bacon! [Clarissa's Notes: I use chopped, skinless, boneless chicken breasts when making it for myself. For the feast, I also added skinless boneless thighs and 20 drumsticks. It should be even more flavorful if you use a cut up chicken or at least the chicken parts you like with the bones and skins attached. It just takes up more storage space. I use fresh herbs. I do not always add the egg yolks. Sometimes I add whole eggs instead or not add any eggs at all. Eggs were used to provide thickening and to stretch the dish. If the bones are there, this serves about 16. Without bones the same weight serves more like 20. I use white wine vinegar. Add the vinegar and spices to taste rather than trusting the recipe when you up the numbers for more people.] From: rmacdonald at microd.com Date: Sun, 25 Aug 96 11:39:06 GMT Subject: Re: one "pot" meal Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Here's one I have been known to do on occasion. It is a version of Cassolet, a dish from southern France that dates way back, but I cannot document how far. This version is designed for camping, using as many canned or dry components as possible: 2 cans of white or navy beans (if you want to be more authentic start from dry beans) 1 can chicken broth 1 cup cheap white wine 1 can chicken (or better duck if you can get some) 1-2 Carrots - diced 1 medium onion - diced 20-30 thin slices of pepperoni (I use commercially sliced and then dice further) Marjoram Garlic Ground Black Pepper Mix the chicken broth with the wine and the spices (to taste, also Italian Seasoning may be add. I don't tell people how much spice to use, we all have different tastes). Add the diced vegitables and bring to a boil. Cook the vegitables until they begin to soften and then add the rest of the ingreadients. Usually the whole cooking process can be done in 30-45 minutes having a completed product that will serve 3-4 or 2 hungry fighters. Other ideas: Breakfast sausage patty's may substitute for the pepperoni, duck for the chicken. Lamb shanks may be added especially if making a larger batch. It's basicly a bean soup/stew that almost anything you can find/catch/poach/ steal can be added to to increase flavor. It is fairly fast, easy, and safely transported with little that can spoil. In service to the society -- Iain of Rannoch ~);^) (Found in Fiach Ogan, Trimaris) From: "Martin G. Diehl" <mdiehl at nac.net> Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 22:45:16 -0400 Subject: Re: SC - Vinegar/verjuice Sharon L. Harrett wrote: > Can anyone provide me with documentation on the methods of > making vinegar or verjuice in period? I have many references to > their use, but none on their manufacture. > > Ceridwen One of my cookbooks "Renaissance Recipes (Painters and Food)" by Gillian Riley, pub: Pomegranate Artbooks, ISBN: 1-56640-577-7 , 96 pages, hbk. gives some information on verjuice and several recipes use it. [Partial quote] Verjuice: in Italian cooking is, in its simplest form, the juice of sour green grapes, used as a condiment or cooking medium. It can be boiled and fermented, and used throughout the year. The equivalent in English cookery ... sour gooseberries, plums, or acidic herbs such as sorrel. ... The book suggests that bitter orange (found in the Spanish foods section of a large supermarket) could be used as a substitute. One recipe that was given was Chicken with Verjuice, "Amorsa" 1 medium chicken, jointed 4 oz. pancetta 1 lb. sour green grapes, gooseberries, or unripe green plums fresh mint and parsley, chopped salt, freshly ground black pepper, saffron to taste Fry the chicken joints and diced bacon in olive oil until golden and half cooked. Crush the grapes and strain through a sieve into a casserole. Add the chicken; stir well to dissolve the brown bits and simmer until tender. Season with black pepper and saffron, check salt (pancetta may provide enough). Serve sprinkled with chopped herbs. Alas, although this lovely book does have a bibliography, specific references are not given for each recipe. I am, Vinchenzio Martinus di Mazza, - -- Martin G. Diehl Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 11:34:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Schuldenfrei <schuldy at abel.MATH.HARVARD.EDU> Subject: SC - Re: Lombard Rice (fwd) Here, with Mistress Johanna's permission, is her recipe and redaction notes. I've taken the liberty of reformatting them for clarity. I've served this to modern people, and they LOVE it. I urge you to try this one. Tibor Lombardy Rice Dish The original recipe for this dish comes from Bartolomeo Scappi's Opera,from Venice in 1570. I based my recipe on the English translation that appears in Lorenza De'Medici's The Heritage of Italian Cooking (Random House, New York:1990). While the first line of the original recipe mentions both sausage and egg yolks, I have omitted both. I couldn't decide what would be an appropriate substitution for cervellate (brain sausage--apparently it is available, just not locally) and there are no instructions on what to do with the egg yolks. (You might wish to try adding hardboiled egg yolks to the chicken filling, or as a garnish.) I have also omitted geese. I use white chicken meat in my version. The first time I tried this recipe, I attempted to mold it in a fluted tube-cake pan without success. I've since discovered that it works well in a lasagne pan, although I don't own one deep enough to hold 3 layers. I have also successfully used large foil baking pans. The dish is at its best hot from the oven with the rosewater perfuming the air, but since Lorenza's variation of the recipe was depicted in a picnic setting, I have also served it as a cold dish. REDACTION: 1-1/2 Cups raw rice, cooked in chicken broth instead of water 4 boneless chicken breasts, cooked, cooled, and chopped (if you poach the chicken breasts, you will have chicken broth!) 2 Cups shredded Mozzarella cheese (Approximately) 1/2 Cup shredded fresh Parmesean cheese (Approximately) 1 stick of melted butter Cinnamon-sugar, as desired (mix cinnamon and sugar to taste) Rosewater, as desired (can be bought in Indian grocery stores) (can be omitted) In a lasagne-sized pan or large casserole, spread a layer of cooked rice. Sprinkle the rice layer with cinnamon-sugar, some of the cheese and some melted butter. Cover the spices and cheese with a generous layer of cooked chicken. Then repeat with the cheese, spices and butter. Add another layer of rice and repeat as desired. Your top layer should be rice with cheese and spices and butter on top. Bake at 350 degrees, uncovered until cheese melts and rice begins to brown. Remove from oven. Sprinkle with rosewater and serve forth. Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 12:01:57 -0400 From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: Re: SC - Re: Lombard Rice (fwd) Mark Schuldenfrei wrote: > While the first line of the original recipe mentions both sausage and > egg yolks, I have omitted both. I couldn't decide what would be an > appropriate substitution for cervellate (brain sausage--apparently it > is available, just not locally) While cervelles, in culinary French, are indeed brains, I'm almost positive that cervellate is not brain sausage. It is what they call a boiling sausage, similar to a cotechino, usually made from a mixture of pork and veal. There are still several Italian varieties of a sausage called cervellato available, not to mention saveloy, the French equivalent. Mostly they're along the lines of a cotto (rather than Genoa or hard) salami. I suspect, based on some of the (admittedly modern) recipes I've seen, that the sausage mixture was formed into a ball, wrapped in some kind of wrinkly membrane like caul fat or calves' tripe, tied up with string, and boiled, the whole thing looking vaguely brainlike. If you've ever seen a zampone, which is an Italian specialty (I've forgotten the region if I ever knew) consisting of a boneless pig's foot and hock, kinda like a lady's evening glove, stuffed with sausage meat and smoked/air dried. The stuff inside is cervellato. This being one of the few topics the Larousse Gastronomique is pretty reliable on, you could probably get more info there. Adamantius ______________________________________ Phil & Susan Troy troy at asan.com Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 11:08:29 -0700 (PDT) From: rousseau at scn.org (Anne-Marie Rousseau) Subject: SC - pomegranite chicken! Hi all from Anne-Marie. Wow! No less than seven requests for this recipe! OK, here it is. I got the primary sources from Cariadoc's collection of medieval and Renaissance cookbooks. The reconstructions are mine. from _An Anonymous Andalusian Cookbook of the Thirteeth Century_, translated by Charles Perr. Another Tabahajiyya (A37) Cut the meat up small and fry with oil and salt, and when it is brown, cooki ti until done with vinegar. Pound a handful of almonds or walnuts and thrown them on and boil a while. Take pomegranate juice and dissolve in it a lump of sugar to get ride of its tartness, and sprinkle with cinnamon. Anne-Marie's Pomegranite chicken: 3 chicken breasts, hacked to gobbets 1-2 T olive oil 1/2 tsp salt Salt the chicken chunks, and sautee in a hot skillet with the oil until almost done and just starting to brown. Meanwhile, make the sauce: 1/4 cup water 1/2 tsp cinnamon 1 T sugar 1/4 cup pomegranite syrup (from middle eastern grocers. If you can't find the syrup, you can use the juice, but boil it for a lot longer, and omit the water). Boil these together in a small sauce pan to blend and dissolve the sugar. When the chicken is almost done, throw on 1/4 cup white wine vinegar (cider vinegar works too), the boiled sauce, and 3 T of pounded almonds. Continue to simmer until the chicken has absorbed most of the liquid. Serve on a bed of cous cous. (recipe below). Soldier's Couscous (Kuskusu Fityani) (A55) [same source] The usual moistened cous cous is known by the whole world. The Fityani is the one where the meat is cooked with its vegetables, as is usual, and when it is done, take out the meat and the vegetables from the pot and put them to one side; strain the bones and rest from the broth and return the pot to the fire; when it has boiled, put in the cous cous cooked and rubbed with fat and leave it for a little on a reduced fire or the hearthstone until it takes in the poper amount of the sauce; then throw it on a platter and level it, put on top of it the cooked meat and vegetables, prinkle it with cinnamon and serve it. This is called Fityani in Marrakesh. Anne-Marie's version of Soldiers Cous Cous 2 cups quick cooking cous cous 1 can Swansons veggie broth and 1 can water 4 T butter 1/4 tsp cinnamon 1 tsp salt Bring the broth and water to a boil in a good heavy pot with a tight lid. Stir in the couscous and finish according to the directions on the box. You can also leave the covered pot on the stove, with the burner tunred off. In about 15 minutes, the water should be absorbed. Stir in the butter over low heat until it is melted. Fluff with a fork and sprinkle heavily with cinnamon. Enjoy! +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Anne-Marie Rousseau rousseau at scn.org Seattle, Washington Date: Mon, 04 Aug 97 13:34:01 -0600 From: "Stephanie Rudin"<rudin at okway.okstate.edu> Subject: SC - Advice, please! I am doing my first feast the first weekend of September and I am trying to keep the costs down as much as possible. One of the recipes I've chosen is from "The Original Mediterranean Cuisine" by Barbara Santich. The recipe is given three ways, once in the original italian (at least I think it's italian - going back to italian class in high school almost 20 years ago), once in an english translation and once in the author's redaction. Di Limonia Di Polli (from Libro della Cucina) Friggansi li polli con lardo e cipolle, e pestisi l'amido non mondo e distemperesi col brodo de la carne de porco, e colisi, e cocansi con li detti polli e spezie. E se non avessi amido, spessisi il brodo colle tuorla d'ova; e quando sira presso l'ora del ministrare, metti in quello succhio di limoni, o di lomie, o di cetrangole. Limonia of Chicken Fry chicken with salted pork fat and onions, and grind unblanched almonds and combine with pork stock, and strain, and cook with the chicken and spices. If you don't have almonds, thicken the liquid with egg yolks; and when it is nearly time to serve the dish, add the juice of lemons or bitter oranges. So... my problem is that in the redaction, Santich calls for ground ginger, pepper, salt (depending on saltiness of stock) and saffron. I would prefer not to use the saffron because of the cost involved. (If this were for only a few I wouldn't mind but we are planning for over 100 people and I don't think I can swing it.) Since the original author only says spices, I don't have any clue what to substitute. I am not familiar enough with period cooking to know what would taste right and I am not familiar enough with saffron to know what the lack of it will do to the recipe's flavor. The only thing I can think of is that the recipe seems to lack garlic, but that might just be a personal thing for me. Hence, I am throwing myself on the mercy of the experienced cooks on this list. I welcome any advice you might have. Mercedes rudin at okway.okstate.edu Date: Tue, 05 Aug 97 15:55:46 -0600 From: "Stephanie Rudin"<rudin at okway.okstate.edu> Subject: Re: SC - Advice, please! Sorry - I should have just gone ahead and added the author's redaction on my first posting. Here it is. Mercedes rudin at okway.okstate.edu Chicken in Lemon Sauce 1 KG (2 lbs) chicken drumsticks or 800 G (just over 1 1/2 lbs boneless breasts) 2 onions, chopped 1-2 tblspns oil 1 cup ground, blanched almonds 2 cups chicken stock 1-1 1/2 tspns ground ginger freshly ground pepper salt (depending on saltiness of stock) 1/2 teaspoon pure saffron (threads) infused in 1/4 cup hot stock juice 1-1 1/2 lemons Trim chicken pieces as necessary, pat dry. Heat oil in a wide shallow pan (large enough to hold the chicken comfortably in one layer). Lightly fry onions until soft, but do not allow them to colour. Add chicken pieces and slowly seal on all sides, again without browning. Place almonds in a food processor. Add hot stock and process for about two more minutes. Using a course sieve, strain this almond milk over the chicken, pressing down on almond residue to extract all the liquid. The almond milk should have the consistency of thin cream; it will thicken during cooking. Add ground ginger and saffron seeped in stock, together with a good grinding of pepper. Cover and simmer for 15 minutes (for breasts) or 30 minutes (for drumsticks). Reduce the lid and increase the heat to boil the sauce down to a thick, creamy consistency. Add the juice of 1 lemon, taste, and if necessary add more lemon juice. The lemon flavor should be distinct but not overpowering. Check for seasoning and add a little salt if desired. From "The Original Mediterranean Cuisine - Medieval Recipes for Today" by Barbara Santich, Chicago Review Press, 1995. From: Glenda Robinson <glendar at antispam.compassnet.com.au> Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: The History of Rice Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 10:22:26 +1000 Organization: Flamberge Computer Services > Strange, I know, but I'm curious (for a good reason)... > Anyone out there know when rice became widespread, which were the first > countries to use/import/cultivate/trade for it? > > Lysander There is a recipe using rice in "To the King's Taste", from "The Forme of Cury, written around 1390. It's one of my favourites, and it goes something like this. Blank-Mang [White Dish] Take capons [or chooks?]and seeth hem. Thenne take hem up. Take alamandes [almonds] blanced. Grynd hem and alay hem up with the same broth [or just use styore bought ground almonds]. Cast the mylk [almond milk] in a pot. Waisshe rys [rice] and do thereto and lat it seeth. Take the brawn of capons. Teere it small and do thereto. Take white greece [lard], sugar and salt, and cast thereinne. Lat it seeth. Then mess it forth and florish it with aneys [aniseed] and confyt rede other whyte and with almandes fryed in oyle and serve it forth. The 'modern' version of this recipe suggests: 2 large capon or chook breasts 2 1/2 cups water 1 1/4 tsp salt 1/4 cup ground almonds 1 cup rice 1 tbsp butter 4 tsp light brown sugar and go for it. This dish is very light, in colour (why they called it 'White Dish', texture and flavour. It is delicious. Just stir the rice often, otherwise it tends to burn at the bottom. Glenda. Date: Thu, 21 Aug 97 16:41:05 -0600 From: "Stephanie Rudin"<rudin at okway.okstate.edu> Subject: Re: SC - When life gives you lemons, then what? Caitlin - one of the women in our shire, HL Rhiannon Redwolf, makes a wonderful dish she calls lemonshire chicken. There isn't really a recipe. I made it once with her standing over me and since then I just throw stuff in. Basically start with chicken breasts, pounded a little, a large onion, diced, some white wine worcestershire, minced garlic, capers, butter, olive oil and salt and pepper. Saute the onions and garlic in a little olive oil and butter then add the chicken breasts and brown them slightly, and add the worcestershire (1/2 cup or more to your taste), capers (about half of a small bottle), salt and pepper and let simmer until the chicken is done. Then add the juice of one lemon (or more to your taste). Serve over rice. I usually use quite a bit of worcestershire so that there is extra sauce to go over the rice. I have added lemon zest every now and then with good results. Mercedes rudin at okway.okstate.edu Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 18:02:16 -0700 From: ladymari at GILA.NET (Mary Hysong) Subject: Re: SC - When life gives you lemons, then what? > Any idea what I can do with > chicken breasts and lemons (beside the usual thing with sherry, which is my > fallback unless you folks have a better idea). > > Caitlin HI Caitlin, here's my favorite lemon chicken: put some butter in a skillet, sprinkle chicken breasts with garlic powder, other fvorite herbs to taste, brown in the butter, squeeze the lemon, strain and mix a spoonful of sugar with it, pour in the middle of the skillet and stir it into whatever chicken juice/butter is there, then stir all together [oops, forgot to say cut the meat in small peices first] cheers, Mairi Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 08:33:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Schuldenfrei <schuldy at abel.MATH.HARVARD.EDU> Subject: Re: SC - When life gives you lemons, then what? HI Caitlin, here's my favorite lemon chicken: put some butter in a skillet, sprinkle chicken breasts with garlic powder, other fvorite herbs to taste, brown in the butter, squeeze the lemon, strain and mix a spoonful of sugar with it, pour in the middle of the skillet and stir it into whatever chicken juice/butter is there, then stir all together [oops, forgot to say cut the meat in small peices first] This is a delightful recipe. I prefer to add some specific wine, and call it Chicken Marsala.... As a technique question: I've found that I get a better, and more intense lemon flavor, if I use the zest of the lemon grated into a sauce, than if I just use juice alone. Have you tried that? I'd dredge the chicken breasts in a flour and lemon zest coating (mix in herbs as you like: savory and black pepper pop to mind) and bake or saute. Make a sauce as above. Tibor Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 14:15:20 -0600 From: L Herr-Gelatt and J R Gelatt <liontamr at ptd.net> Subject: SC - Apricot Chicken Recipe My apologies if this is a repeat. I lost power at the end of typing this out before, and it was gone when I finally got back on 6 hours later. Apricot Chicken: I have found recipes for what is basically the same dish in several places...Russian Cookbooks, Mid-east cookbooks, even Martha Washington IIRC. Here's what you do: Take one cut-up boiler/fryer or equivalent favorite parts in weight. Brown it in olive oil or butter in a large kettle with 1 very large onion, cut up into large squares.Onions need not be completely soft. At this point, decide whether this is a stove-top, fireplace, or oven dish, and put it in an appropriate pot. Add water or chicken stock to cover and a pound of dried apricots, halved if very large. Add more if they are the very-moist variety. Simmer on the stove top, over the fire, or bake in the oven, all covered, for about an hour. Add salt and white pepper to taste. Some heretics have been known to add white wine to the mix with the stock. This looks very fetching with green garnish of sliced spring onion greens or parsley, and we like to serve it with something that will sop up the incredible juices, such as noodles (with parsley or herbs for color contrast) or in bread bowls. I was delighted to find a Rev. War re-enactor, who just "discovered" the SCA, cooked Apricot Chicken over the campfire for his turn at our camp meal at Pennsic. Along with it he served roasted onions: Cover whole onions (slice off only the top. leave on the brown skin layers) with foil and place in the coals until soft. To serve, open the foil, carefully (hot!) squeze the brown skin and the onion will pop right out onto your plate. Serve with butter or salt and pepper, or plain if desired. Amazingly simply and incredibly good. For some reason it doesn't work in the oven at home quite as well. Hope you enjoy it! It all tastes far more complicated than the recipe would indicate! Aoife Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 10:59:53 EST From: LrdRas <LrdRas at aol.com> Subject: SC - Chicken-apologies and facts M'lord Alaistair and list members, My humble apologies. It appears that taken at face value m'lord Al was correct. Cornish Game Hens as available in the supermarket under that name are indeed nothing more than another variety of chicken. They are raised from several breeds that have been improved for meat and are known as broilers. They are harvested when they have reached the weight of 2 1/2 lbs. or 7 weeks of age.whichever comes first. Due to the young age of the harvested bird they have a flavor which is more succulent and rich compared to older birds. As a side note, according to Dr. John Schwartz of the Landcaster Office of the Pennsylvania Co-Operative Extention office, the flavor of chickens rapidly deteriorate after arriving at the supermarket. There they are washed in antiseptic and bleaching/antibacterial agents often times on cutting surfaces that are coated with antibacterials and packaged. This ruins the flavor. The best flavored birds are those with minimal processing that have been killed quickly and bled rapidly. and immediately chilled down. Whne treated thusly the flavor of range fed vs. commercial birds is not, accordinging to his mother, significantly different. In fact, broiler and frying chickens are bred today specifically for flavor and good meat to bone ratios. Well, there you have it. My apologies for my for my former faux paux. Ras Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 12:54:20 -0800 From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com> Subject: Re: SC - french cooking or is Ham mousse just a fancy sausage? Capons Stwed (this is 15th c. English, but English and French cooking were very similar at the time) Take parcelly, Sauge, Isoppe, Rose Mary, and tyme, and breke hit bitwen thi hondes, and stoppe the Capon there-with; colour hym with Safferon, and couche him in a erthen potte, or of brasse, and ley splentes underneth and al about the sides, that the Capon touche no thinge of the potte; strawe good herbes in the potte, and put thereto a pottel of the best wyn that thou may gete, and none other licour; hele the potte with a close led, and stoppe hit aboute with dogh or bater, that no eier come oute; And set hit on the faire charcole, and lete it seeth easly and longe till hit be ynowe. And if hit be an erthen potte, then set hit on the fire whan thou takest hit downe, and lete hit not touche the grounde for breking; And whan the hete is ouer past, take oute the Capon with a prik; then make a sirippe of wyne, Reysons of corance, sugur and safferon, And boile hit a litull; medel pouder of Ginger with a litul of the same wyn, and do thereto; then do awey the fatte of the sewe of the Capon, And do the Siryppe to the sewe, and powre hit on the capon, and serue it forth. [end of original] 1 chicken, about 3 lb First batch of herbs: 1/3 c fresh parsley 1 T dried sage 1 t dried rosemary 1 t thyme, ground 2 T hyssop, dried 1 1/2 c wine 6 threads saffron + 1 t water Second batch of herbs: 1/2 t tarragon 1/2 t sage 1/2 t rosemary 1/2 t thyme about 1/2 c flour enough water to make a stiff dough Sauce: 1/2 c wine 1/2 c sugar 1/2 c currants small pinch saffron 1/4 c wine 1 t powdered ginger Mix first batch of herbs and stuff chicken with them. Put chicken and wine in a pot with a top; if you are using a stove top rather than an oven, you may want to put wood pieces or something under the chicken to keep it from sticking. Paint the chicken with water with saffron crushed into it. Sprinkle on second batch of herbs. Mix flour and water into a stiff dough, roll it out into a string, and use it between pot and lid as a seal. Bake at 350" or simmer on stove top about 1 1/2 hours. Take out, drain, separate out some of the liquid without the fat. Make a thick syrup of wine, sugar, currants, and a pinch of saffron. Boil briefly. Mix another 1/4 c wine with powdered ginger. Combine. Add 1/2 c of the liquid from the chicken to this, heat, pour over capon, serve. Elizabeth/Betty Cook Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 08:00:04 -0800 From: "Anne-Marie Rousseau" <acrouss at gte.net> Subject: Re: SC - frozen pomegranate seeds Hi all from AM! A possible use for pomegranite seeds....Pomegranite Chicken! Like the pomegranite sauce for pork already suggested, but slightly different ingredients and documentably period (at least for you middle eastern types). The recipe follows...this stuff is wonderful and a big hit with the meat and potatoes crowd when served with cous cous (also period, when cooked with broth and butter). Great for tourneys, its so easy. If you use a cast iron pot, it is rather brown, but if you use a stainless steel pot its a pretty dark red. The pomegranite chicken calls for walnuts, but since they appear to be my singular food allergy, I chose to sub with almonds. Interestingly, the Persian restaurants here in Seattle have something like this on their menus. Course, since they use the proper walnuts, I can't try it, but it appears to be less sweet-sour, and is far more soupy. Oh, and the chicken pieces are bone in, for the modern "authentic" version. Interesting! As always feel free to use my recipe, I just ask that you let me know, cite me in any publications and let me know how it worked for you too! These and other recipies are the ones in the last Serve it Forth, I believe. Enjoy! Recipes from An Anonymous Andalusian Cookbook of the Thirteenth Century, translated by Charles Perr (in A Collection of Medieval and Renaissance Cookbooks. 6th Edition, ed. by Duke Cariadoc and Duchess Diana Alene, privately published. Vol 1, 1991, Vol 2, 1993.) Another Tabahajiyya (A37) Cut the meat up small and fry with oil and salt, and when it is brown, cook it until done with vinegar. Pound a handful of almonds or walnuts and throw them on and boil a while. Take pomegranate juice and dissolve in it a lump of sugar to get rid of its tartness, and sprinkle with cinnamon. Pomegranite Chicken 6 chicken breasts, hacked to gobbets 1-2 T olive oil to sautee 1/2 tsp salt to sprinkle on breasts 1/2 cup water 1 tsp cinnamon 2 T sugar 1/2 cup pomegranite molasses or syrup** 1/2 cup white wine or cider vinegar 6 T pounded almonds Chunk and salt the chicken, brown in oil 'til almost done. Meanwhile, make a sauce of the water, sugar and pomegranite syrup. Boil to blend. When the chicken is almost totally cooked, dump in the vinegar. Then add the sauce, along with the almonds. Simmer till the sauce is thick, about five minutes on a hard boil. Sprinkle with cinnamon and serve on cous cous. Serves 6. **If you can't find pomegranite syrup at a local middle eastern market, you can use pomegranite juice, but you'll need to add more sugar and omit the water. By using the pomegranite molasses, I can save a bit of cooking down time. Soldier's Couscous (Kuskusu Fityani) (A55) The usual moistened couscous is known by the whole world. The Fityani is the one where the meat is cooked with its vegetables, as is usual, and when it is done, take out the meat and the vegetables from the pot and put them to one side; strain the bones and rest from the broth and return the pot to the fire; when it has boiled, put in the couscous cooked and rubbed with fat and leave it for a little on a reduced fire or the hearthstone until it takes in the proper amount of the sauce; then throw it on a platter and level it, put on top if it the cooked meat and vegetables, sprinkle it with cinnamon and serve it. This is called Fityani in Marrakesh. Soldier's Cous cous 2 c. cous cous 1 can veggie broth + 1 canful water 4 T. butter 1/4 tsp cinnamon 1 t. salt In a large pot with a good lid, bring the broth and water to a boil. Stir in the cous cous, and clap on the lid. Let sit off the heat until all the water is absorbed. Stir in the butter and sprinkle heavily with cinnamon. Fluff with a fork to keep from being gloppy. Serves 6-8 generously. Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 11:49:04 -0800 From: "Crystal A. Isaac" <crystal at pdr-is.com> Subject: Re: SC - frozen pomegranate seeds Thanks for the suggestions. I think I'm going to try to make pomegranate wine (my barony has not yet reimburesed me for expenses and I think I'll just lose that recipt so the seeds will be mine, not the SCA's.) Although from another source my recipe was not unlike Anne-Marie's, including the subsititution of almonds for walnuts. When I make this at for myself, I tend to just make the sauce with extra spice and pour it over the chicken to bake. I don't like boiled chicken. thanks again, Crystal of the Westermark Chicken with Pomegranate NARSIRK This is a Persian word, meaning "Pomegranate and vinegar" Cut fat meat into middling pieces, then put into the sauce pan and cover with water. Adding a little salt. Boil, and remove the scum. When almost cooked, throw in coriander, cumin, pepper, cinnamon and mastic; bray all separately from the cinnamon, leaving this last in its bark. Cut up onions, wash and put into the pot, with a few sprigs of mint. Add kabobs of [chicken] minced with seasonings. Take pomegranate seeds, grind up fine, mix with wine-vinegar strain and pour into the saucepan. Peel [almonds], grind them fine, soak in hot water and add, flavoring the mixture to taste, and putting in sufficient [almond] to give it consistency. Then throw on top a few pieces of whole [almond], and rub in sprigs of dry mint. Spray with a little rose water; wipe the sides with a clean rag, and leave over the fire to settle. Then remove. Arberry, A.J., translator. _The Bagdad Cookery Book_. (c.1226CE) Reprinted in _A Collection of Medieval and Renaissance Cookery Books_. Volume I by Friedman, David (Sir Cariadoc of the Bow) Published privately. Chicken: Take chicken thighs and boil in chicken broth, adding ground coriander, ground cumin, ground pepper, cinnamon sticks, mastic (a tiny drop of spruce essence will do), chopped onions and mint. If time permits, add some meatballs of ground chicken, ground almonds and spices. Sauce: Grind pomegranate seeds and mix with 1/4 of that volume white wine vinegar. [or pomegranate juice] Blanch, peel and grind almonds. Add ground almonds to sauce to thicken. Add spices (ground coriander, ground cumin, ground pepper) to taste. Prep: Remove chicken and onions from boiling bath and place in baking/serving dishes. Pour sauce over chicken. Heat in hot oven for a 10 minutes Sprinkle with whole almonds, pomegranate seeds and mint. Serve. Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 16:02:15 -0700 From: "Morgan" <morgan at lewistown.net> Subject: Re: SC - Re: sca-cooks V1 #639 >I would like to know if anyone of you out there has some ideas for >recipes I could use to serve to the Crown and thier entourage for a >light lunch. >Tegan Viaunde of Cypress Ryalle (chicken in sweet sauce) 4 cups chopped cooked chicken 1 cup white wine 1/4 cup sugar 1/2 cup honey 1/2 teasp. each ground cloves, mace and ginger 1/4 cup ground almonds 1/2 cup currants Boil the wine and sugar together for ten minutes or until it thickens and clings to the spoon. Add honey, spices almonds and currants and cook for an additional five minutes. Pour the sauce over the chicken, coating well. Chill well; serve cold. I have had much sucess with this "picnic" recipe. I have used cut up breast meat, small drumsticks, even plain ol' cooked chicken parts. I put the cooled sauce and meat in a ziplock, and throw it in the cooler until time to eat, then arrange the meat on platters, and see it disapper! Taken from >Travelling Dysshes< by Siobhan Medhbh O'Roarke Caointiarn Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 01:29:30 -0500 From: allilyn at juno.com (LYN M PARKINSON) Subject: Re: SC - Yikes! I'm teaching a class! Here's a recipe from An Ordinance of Pottage that they might like. Floreye A rose-decked version of Chicken pudding. Use rose or deep pink rose petals, choosing ones which are just beginning to wilt and cutting off their white bases. Chicken Pate with roses petals of 4 medium-sized roses 1 1/2 cups chicken broth or water 2 oz. (1/2 cup) blanched almonds, slivered 1 teaspoon sugar 3 cups cooked chicken breast, chopped 1/2 teaspoon salt, or to taste Reserve some of the inner, less wilted petals. Put the rest in a blender or processor with the almonds and process them; then add the chicken meat and seasonings and process again. Put this mixture in a saucepan and stir into it the broth or water, previously brought to a boil. Leave to steep for 10 minutes, then bring to a boil, stirring, and continue to stir over a low heat for no more than 5 minutes. The dish can be served hot, mounded on a serving dish. Or it can be packed into a bowl and chilled, then unmoulded before serving. Either way, garnish at the last moment with the reserved rose petals. This should be simple enough for beginners, and as a cold dish, work for an after meeting pot-luck. Allison Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 02:44:22 EDT From: korrin.daardain at juno.com (Korrin S DaArdain) Subject: Re: SC - Fried Chicken in Apicius??? On Wed, 05 Aug 1998 17:14:39 -0400 Phil & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> writes: >Today, for the second time in the last week or so, I have heard a >reference made to a fried chicken recipe in Apicius. The trouble is, I >can't seem to find such a recipe in Apicius. > >Can anyone provide a name for the recipe, or maybe info indicating >this is somebody's loose secondary interpetation of a boiled or braised >chicken recipe from Apicius (there are several), or what? > >Adamantius I don't know if this is what you are looking for but a search of my recipe collection for "Apicius" turned up the following recipes for chicken. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Pullum Frontonianum (Chicken a la Fronto) (Apic. 6, 9, 13) From an old Roman cookbook: Marcus Gavius Apicius: De Re Coquinaria. The book I have is edited and translated from Latin to German by Robert Maier. Posted and translated from German to English by Micaela Pantke (hz225wu at unidui.uni-duisburg.de) 1 fresh chicken (approx. 1-1.5kg) 100ml oil 200ml Liquamen (A salty fish sauce), or 200ml wine + 2 tsp. salt 1 branch of leek fresh dill to taste Saturei (Savory) to taste coriander to taste pepper to taste a little bit of Defritum (A thick fig syrup, or a thick condensed grape juice) Start to fry chicken and season with a mixture of Liquamen and oil, together with bunches of dill, leek, Saturei and fresh coriander. Then cook approximately 1 hour with 220 deg C in the oven. When the chicken is done, moisten a plate with Defritum, put chicken on it, sprinkle pepper on it, and serve. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Pullus Fusilis (Chicken With Liquid Filling) (Apic. 6, 9, 15) From an old Roman cookbook: Marcus Gavius Apicius: De Re Coquinaria. The book I have is edited and translated from Latin to German by Robert Maier. Posted and translated from German to English by Micaela Pantke (hz225wu at unidui.uni-duisburg.de) 1 fresh chicken (approx. 1-1.5kg) 300g minced meat (half beef, half pork) 100g groats (of oat) 2 eggs 250ml white wine 1 TB oil 1 TB Liebstoeckl (A kind of celery) 1/4 tsp. ground ginger 1/4 tsp. ground pepper 1 tsp. green peppercorns 50g stone-pine kernels Liquamen (A salty fish sauce) or salt to taste Ground pepper, Liebstoeckl, ginger, minced meat and cooked groats. Add eggs and mix until you have a smooth mass. Season with Liquamen, add oil, whole peppercorns and stone-pine kernels. Fill this dough into the chicken. Cook approximately 1 hour with 220 deg C in the oven. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Korrin S. DaArdain Kitchen Steward of Household Port Karr Kingdom of An Tir. Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 08:08:36 -0400 From: Phil & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com> Subject: Re: SC - Fried Chicken in Apicius??? Korrin S DaArdain wrote: > >Can anyone provide a name for the recipe [a fried chicken recipe in > Apicius], or maybe info >indicating > >this is somebody's loose secondary interpetation of a boiled or braised > >chicken recipe from Apicius (there are several), or what? > I don't know if this is what you are looking for but a search of my > recipe collection for "Apicius" turned up the following recipes for > chicken. Yes, this is the recipe that seems to come closest to fried chicken, and it's actually a stew. The chicken is browned and then braised until done in a minimum of nine ounces of liquid (per the redaction below) not in the oven, according to the bare translation I have by Flower and Rosenbaum (we don' need no steenking redactions!), but over a heat source, presumably on the stove. I was just wondering if the recipe had been substantially reworked, which sometimes greatly changes the character of the dish until it is barely recognizable. See, for instance, well, I _think_ it was the first edition of "Pleyn Delit" that turned mortrews, a thick pottage of ground meat, into meat loaf.By the way, the Liebstoeckl mentioned in the German text, and left untranslated in English, is presumably lovage, a celery-ish plant commonly found in Apician recipes. Adamantius Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 14:07:35 EDT From: PhlipinA at aol.com Subject: SC - On roast beef and fried chicken- long Was just going through my copy of Platina, "De Honesta Voluptate et Valetudine", the Milham translation, 1998, and found the following instructions. <snip of roast beef recipe> The second one comes from the same book, 6, chapter 11, entitled "Frictum ex Quavis Carne", translated as " A Fry from Whatever Meat You Want": You will make a fry from fowl and whatever meat you want in this way: put meat and birds into a pot on the fire with lard after they have been well gutted and washed and cut up, either in small pieces or quartered, and stir frequently with a spoon so they do not stick to the sides of the pot. When the cooking is nearly finished, take out the greater part of the lard and pour into the pot two egg yolks, beaten with verjuice and mixed with juice and spices. It is necessary for it to boil only until properly cooked. Some add saffron to this dish so it becomes more colored. It will not be alien to pleasure to sprinkle finely chopped parsley on the dish and serve immediately to your guests. It will be very nourishing, and, even if it is digested slowly, it will repress bile and help the heart, liver, and kidneys. Now, this is very similar to how I make my Southern Fried Chicken- the major difference being that the spices are added in a liquid medium at the end of cooking, where I add the spices in flour and corn meal at the beginning- in fact, this one is very reminiscent of Buffalo Wings. Being modern, I usually use peanut oil for the fat and bake it after it's browned, to reduce fat, but I have frequently fried chicken in lard until it was done. Maybe I'll try this one, next time I'm in a fried chicken mood... Again, I think this is another example of a generic frying recipe, used instead of a specific recipe for a common practice, just as in the Roast recipe. Thoughts? Phlip Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 15:05:16 EDT From: Mordonna22 at aol.com Subject: SC - Apicius Fried Chicken I dunno about this Vehling guy >From Apicius; Cooking and Dining in Imperial Rome translated by Vehling, pg. 154, recipe 250 CHICKEN AND CREAM SAUCE [1] PULLUS LEUCOZOMUS [2] TAKE A CHICKEN AND PREPARE IT AS ABOVE. EMPTY IT THROUGH THE APERATURE OF THE NECK SO THAT NONE OF THE ENTRAILS REMAIN. TAKE [a little] WATER [3] AND PLENTY OF SPANISH OIL, STIR, COOK TOGETHER UNTIL ALL MOISTURE IS EVAPORATED [4] WHEN THIS IS DONE, TAKE THE CHICKEN OUT, SO THAT THE GREATEST POSSIBLE AMOUNT OF OIL REMAINS BEHIND [5] SPRINKLE WITH PEPPER AND SERVE [6] [1] The ancient version of Chicken a la Maryland, Wiener Blackhahndl, etc. [2] tor. leocozymus; from the Greek leucozomos, prepared with white sauce. The formula for the cream sauce is lacking here. Cf. Rx no. 245 [3] The use of water to clarify the oil which is to serve as a deep frying fat is an ingenious idea, little practised today. It surely saves the fat or oil, prevents premature burning or blackening by frequent use, and gives a better tasting friture. The above recipe is a fragment, but even this reveals the extraordinary knowledge of culinary principles of Apicius who reveals himself to us as a master of well-understood principles of good cookery that are so often ignored today, Cf. Note 5 to Rx. no. 497 [4] the recipe fails to state that the chicken must be breaded, or that the pieces if chicken be turned in flour, etc., and fried in the oil." It sure does fail to state that. So where does he get it? "[5] another vital rule of deep fat frying not stated, or rather stated in the language of the kitchen, namely that the chicken must be crisp, dry, that is, not saturated with oil, which of course every good fry cook knows [6] With the cream sauce, prepared separately, spread on the platter, with the fried chicken inside, or the sauce in a separate dish, we have here a very close resemblance to a very popular modern dish Vehling's notes indicate a Chicken Fricassee. My redaction of his translation of the recipe is to simply deep fry the unseasoned chicken in olive oil until done inside, remove, and sprinkle with pepper. Still not Southern Fried Chicken, but definitely something modern palates would find familiar, with perhaps the addition of a bit of salt. Mordonna Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 15:05:15 EDT From: Mordonna22 at aol.com Subject: SC - Apicius's fried chicken >From Apicius; Cooking and Dining in Imperial Rome, Now for the First Time Rendered into English by Joseph Dommers Vehling, Published by Dover Publications, New York, 1977 [238] CHICKEN SOUR PULLUM OXYZOMUM A GOOD-SIZED GLASS OF OIL, A SMALLER GLASS OF BROTH, AND THE SMALLEST MEASURE OF VINEGAR, 6 SCRUPLES OF PEPPER, PARSLEY AND A BUNCH OF LEEKS G.-V. [laseris] satis modice Vehling's redaction: "These directions are very vague. If the raw chicken is quartered, fried in the oil, and then braised in the broth with a dash of vinegar, the bunch of leeks, and parsley, seasoned with pepper and a little salt, we have a dish gastonomically correct. The leeks can be served as a garnish, the gravy, properly reduced and strained over the chicken which like in the previous formula is served in a casserole" My redaction: 1 1/2 cup (12 fl oz) olive oil 1 cup (8 fl oz) chicken stock dash of vinegar 1 tsp ground black pepper 1/4 cup (2 fl oz) chopped fresh parsley 1 large bunch leeks Clean and dry the chicken. In a heavy saucepan heat the oil on high heat until a drop of water dropped into it sizzles and evaporates instantly. Drop the chicken into the oil a few pieces at a time and brown and remove. Reduce heat to medium low. Add the broth, vinegar, pepper, parsley, leeks, and return the chicken to the pot. Bring to a slow simmer, cover, and cook until Leeks are tender and chicken is done. My Reaction: To my modern palate, this definitely could have used a bit of salt. Otherwise it was delicious. Meat was moist and tender, sauce was a tiny bit tart. Very rich sauce, though. Mordonna Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 02:02:08 EDT From: Gerekr at aol.com Subject: SC - Apician Teriyaki Chicken 8-); and ostrich sauces While regailing my husband with the saga of the Phantom Apician Fried Chicken, I finally found the recipe in Flower and Rosenbaum and was reading it off. Quoth he, "If liquamen is a soy sauce analog (Cariadoc and Charles Perry reference), that sounds more like teriyaki chicken". "No no," quoth I, "teriyaki is sweet as well as salty." So I puddled on thru some more and find a sweetener! He was right! Phlip wanted the latin. Here is Apicius 250 from the Flower & Rosenbaum text and their translation. F&B, p.164, #12 (Vehling #250(?)) Pullum Frontonianum: pullum praedura, condies liquamine oelo mixto, cui mittis fasciculum anethi, porri, satureiae et coriandri viridis, et coques. ubi coctus furit, levabis eum, in lance defrito perunges, piper aspargis et inferes. Chicken a la F