caviar-msg - 4/3/07 Medieval caviar and fish eggs. Recipes. NOTE: See also the files: fish-msg, eggs-msg, fish-pies-msg, salmon-msg, stockfish-msg, frogs-msg, blood-dishes-msg, organ-meats-msg, Rus-Vik-daybd-art, fd-Russia-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 21:42:41 -0600 From: Stefan li Rous <StefanliRous at austin.rr.com> Subject: [Sca-cooks] medieval caviar To: SCA-Cooks maillist SCA-Cooks <SCA-Cooks at Ansteorra.org> Gunthar mentioned: <<< And then there was Sir Guy's vigil at Pennsic where I found out about it that afternoon and the Bellatrix clan shoved a couple hundred dollars in my hand and told me to prepare something. That was interesting but I did manage to make a rather nice, if not period, buffet. My favorite part of that was being told by one of my runners he'd been mauled by a bunch of dukes who stole his full platter of caviar canapes and pushed him back towards the prep tent telling him to get more. Since when do big dumb stickjocks like caviar!? >>> While that particular caviar dish may or may not have been period, it is my understanding that caviar, or other fish roe, was likely to have been eaten in period. We think of sturgeon being primarily a Russian or southwest Asia fish today, but I seem to remember comments that sturgeon ran in many of the rivers of western Europe during the Middle Ages. Okay, I just did a search on the Florilegium. A lot more on sturgeon than on caviar. However, both do show up in this file: Romanian-ckbk-art (112K) 1/25/04 "A Translation of a 17th Century Romanian Cookbook" by Lord Petru cel paros Voda. So does anyone have any other mentions or period recipes of caviar? Stefan -------- THLord Stefan li Rous Barony of Bryn Gwlad Kingdom of Ansteorra Mark S. Harris Austin, Texas Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 22:09:58 -0600 From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] medieval caviar To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org> > So does anyone have any other mentions or period recipes of caviar? > Stefan Caviar appears in Platina. I don't have my copy handy to post details, but I was considering working with the recipe as a surprise for Baroness Gwyneth. Bear Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 23:27:00 -0500 From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius1 at verizon.net> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] medieval caviar To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org> On Mar 2, 2007, at 10:42 PM, Stefan li Rous wrote: > So does anyone have any other mentions or period recipes of caviar? There's a rather critical poem from period (I think) which mentions "cavialle", which I gather to be more like modern botargo, a pressed, dried roe (generally today it would be mullet or cod, sometimes carp, but since caviar specifically refers to sturgeon, I assume that's what they meant then) I _think_ it's Italian, but translated into English early on, but the gist of it is that whoever eats caviar had better like sh*t, dirt and flies. You can still get pressed caviar that is a pretty similar product; the lightly salted stuff you can get now really only becomes the worldwide default form in the era of refrigeration and high-speed food transport. I don't remember the details offhand, but do have this secondhand memory of the reference. Anybody else remember this? Adamantius Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 15:44:22 -0800 From: Lilinah <lilinah at earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] medieval caviar To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Both caviar and boutarge/botargo (salted dried fish roe) are mentioned among the food served to the Ottoman sultan who conquered Constantinopolis in 1453, Mehmed II. However, the Ottomans were not fond of fish or any other kind of seafood, so it rather disappears from the careful registers of what was eaten in the Topkapi Serai. It is only in menus of Mehmed II that meals featuring fish and seafood appear in the Topkapi within SCA period, so i would assume that he was eating what Byzantine rulers before him had eaten. Nor was it featured in the "soup kitchens" of the imaret established by sultans, sultanas, emirs, viziers, etc. It is likely, however, that it was eaten by other people in the Ottoman Empire outside the palace. -- Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM) the persona formerly known as Anahita Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2007 19:49:36 -0300 From: Suey <lordhunt at gmail.com> Subject: [Sca-cooks] medieval caviar To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org Stefan li Rous wrote: > So does anyone have any other mentions or period recipes of caviar? In Spain roe and mullet eggs were used as caviar as per text prior to 16th century. In Al-Andalus they were liked and prepared in many ways such as boiled, fried or scalded in vinegar or oil without water. Avenzoar found them more noxious than the fish itself as they were more humid and colder. Christians did not consider fish eggs to be fish but eggs and, therefore, consumption was not prohibited on fast days. Susan Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 21:25:23 -0600 From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] medieval caviar To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org> A couple of translations from Martino: How to Make Lenten Pottage Take some good caviar, making sure it is not rancid, and remove the outside part; the crush well in a mortar, and when it has been well crushed, to make eight servings, take half of the caviar and then crush it in a mortar with twenty-five almonds that have been well blanched and an ounce of bread white; thin with a little cool water and pass through a stamine, adding more water with the almond milk so there will be enough for eight servings. Then place over a flame and add a bit of good oil and some herbs, that is to say, marjoram, mint and parsley that have been finely chopped. Then bring to a boil with milk. Then add the caviar to the milk after first thinning it with a bit of the milk in the mortar. Then put all these things in the pot and give it a stir with a spoon. Add a bit of saffron and pepper; and once you have stirred it, remove. Then take some and serve in bowls, topped with sweet spices. Similarly, you can make this with pike roe, but it must be well crushed and passed through a stamine. You can also make it with sturgeon roe. How to Prepare Sturgeon Roe Caviar and Cook It As Well Take some bread slices and toast until slightly browned, and slice the caviar the same size as the bread slices, but a little thinner, and lay them on top of the bread; place the bread slices on the tip of a knife or a fork suited to this purpose and expose to the air around the flame until the caviar hardens like a slightly browned crust. Likewise, you can prepare it in any other way by first washing in lukewarm water so that it is not so salty; take some good, small herbs that have been finely chopped, grated bread white with a bit of finely chopped and gently cooked onion, and a bit of pepper, to which you add a cup of water; mix all these things together with the caviar, and shape into one or more fritters, and fry as you would with eggs. To make the caviar, take some sturgeon roe, during the season and period when sturgeon are best, remove from the roe all the nerves inside, and wash with some good white vinegar or with good white wine. Place on a table and allow it to dry; then put it in a pot, adding salt to taste; stir well with your hands, but carefully so as to crush as little as possible. And once this has been done, take a white sack made of rather loose canvas, and toss in the caviar for a day and a night so that the water it purges will be strained out. Once this has been done, put the caviar back in a pot, well pressed and thick, in other words by pressing it down with your hands. Three or four small holes at the bottom of the pot will allow moisture to escape in case the caviar was not properly strained. Keep the pot well covered and you can eat the caviar as you wish. (As presented in Ballerini, Luigi, editor, Parzen, Jeremy, translator, The Art of Cooking: The First Modern Cookery Book, Composed by the Eminent Maestro Martino of Como...; University of California Press, 2005.) Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 23:11:35 -0500 From: "Nick Sasso" <grizly at mindspring.com> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] medieval caviar To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org> -----Original Message----- < < < < A couple of translations from Martino: How to Make Lenten Pottage Take some good caviar, making sure it is not rancid, and remove the outside part; the crush well in a mortar, and when it has been well crushed, to make eight servings, take half of the caviar and then crush it in a mortar with twenty-five almonds that have been well blanched and an ounce of bread white; < < < SNIP > > > How to Prepare Sturgeon Roe Caviar and Cook It As Well < < < STIP > > > To make the caviar, take some sturgeon roe, during the season and period when sturgeon are best, remove from the roe all the nerves inside, and wash with some good white vinegar or with good white wine. Place on a table and allow it to dry; then put it in a pot, adding salt to taste; stir well with your hands, but carefully so as to crush as little as possible. And once this has been done, take a white sack made of rather loose canvas, and toss in the caviar for a day and a night so that the water it purges will be strained out. Once this has been done, put the caviar back in a pot, well pressed and thick, in other words by pressing it down with your hands. Three or four small holes at the bottom of the pot will allow moisture to escape in case the caviar was not properly strained. Keep the pot well covered and you can eat the caviar as you wish. > > > > > I started thinking about terminology in our period and our current times, as well as in between. How are people thinking about language drift in terms of caviar as the little eggs themselves versus the entire 'egg sack' of a fish? I am finding it hard to grasp removing and outside part of hundreds of little dots of coor to make a dish. Same with the removal of nerves from them. Am I the last one to the party in figuring this out? I checked wikipedia and found a reference to several Mediterranean nations drying and curing the roe pouch of various fish, then sliced and used like sardines. Are we possibly looking at two or more different products being translated into English as "caviar" or "roe". Just checking because I've deleted the previous messages in this thread. I automatically think little fishy egg granuales . . . while the original could refer to the little tiny eggs, the egg pouch or the entire thing together. niccolo difrancesco (I know the egg pouch has a 'real' name) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 07:09:03 -0500 From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius1 at verizon.net> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] medieval caviar To: grizly at mindspring.com, Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org> On Mar 4, 2007, at 11:11 PM, Nick Sasso wrote: > I automatically think little fishy egg > granuales . . . while the original could refer to the little tiny > eggs, the egg pouch or the entire thing together. Think of the drift as similar to "ham" meaning pink or reddish, salty/ smoked pigmeat, while once it could be any animal that has thighs, fresh or cured. The "original" for caviar is simply a sturgeon, in both Russian and Turkish, AFAIK, and as with things like shad, the "hard roe" of the female became more popular than the fish itself, to the point where the popular image of the part becomes the image of the whole. Like scallops in the US, where we tend to see them in the shell very infrequently in markets, and forget that it's not just a lovely white adductor muscle coming full circle as the veal scalloppine of the sea? I don't know if there's any market for the soft roe or milt of the male sturgeon; there is for shad, but I've never heard of it for sturgeon. Either way, there seems to have been some equivocation early on. Apparently whole roes of the female sturgeon were marketed as caviar at some point; they still are today, in the form of pressed caviar, which isn't as dry and hard as botargo, from what I've seen, but a similar concept. Adamantius Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 08:02:46 -0500 From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] medieval caviar To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org> There are books on the topic--- Caviar. The Strange History and Uncertain Future of the World's Most Coveted Delicacy by Inga Saffron. 2002 This one does cover the history of caviar. This one is available as a used copy for less than $1.00 Also The World of Caviar* *and The Philosopher Fish: Sturgeon, Caviar, And the Geography of Desire can be found online at really good prices. Johnnae <the end> Edited by Mark S. Harris caviar-msg Page 6 of 7