Filts-Galtyn-msg - 5/13/10

Fillets in Galentyne. Recipes. Comments. Originally jellied juices of meat or fish but the term was later transferred to the sauce which was thickened with bread crumbs and spices. "fyletts in galentyne"

NOTE: See also the files: aspic-msg, sauces-msg, camelne-sauce-msg, galangale-msg, thickening-msg, blood-dishes-msg. fish-msg, stews-bruets-msg, wine-msg.

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    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
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Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2009 08:04:01 -0500
From: Elise Fleming <alysk at ix.netcom.com>
To: sca-cooks <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>,
	"mk-cooks at midrealm.org" <mk-cooks at midrealm.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Fyletts in Galentyne

Greetings!  The recipe below is from the Pynson "Boke of Cokery" from 
1500 (recently posted on the Tudor Cook blog site).

To make fyletts in galentyne take the beste of rybbes of porke & flee of 
the skynne & rost the fleshe tyll it be almost ynough than take it of & 
chop it in peces & put it in a potte with onyons butter or fayre grece 
and hole clowes maces quibybes and do it togyder with a cruste and trye 
it through a streynor & white wyne and do therto pouder of peper and put 
it in the potte and when it boyeth lette it not be chargeaunt & season 
it up with pouder of gynger & salt & serue it.

Here is an almost identical version from another book which I copied 
from Doc's web site:

Source [ A NobleBoke off Cookry, Robina Napier (ed.)]: To mak felettes 
in galentyne tak of the best of ribbes of pork and fley of the skyn and 
put the flesshe upon a broche and rost it till it be almost enoughe then 
tak it of and chope it in peces and put it in a pot with onyons butter 
and faire grece hole clowes maces quybibes and put it to gedur with a 
crust of bred and try it through a strener with whit wyne put ther to 
pouder of peper and put it in the pot and when it boilithe let it not be 
chargant and sesson it up with poudre of guingere and salt it and serue it.

My question is - How many of you have made this dish?  That is, this 
specific dish with white wine, spices, and powdered ginger, not a 
different version of fylettes/fyletts in galentyne?  A comment had been 
made to me that the Pynson version probably hadn't been made for 500 
years, but I know that you all delve into many different dishes, and the 
Pynson version is really the same as the "Napier" recipe.  So, who has 
played with this dish and how did you like it?

Alys K.
-- 
Elise Fleming
alysk at ix.netcom.com
http://home.netcom.com/~alysk/


Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2009 08:38:02 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Fyletts in Galentyne

Oh, dear! Where to begin?

We indexed 8- eight - versions of fyletts in galentine in the  
Concordance of English Recipes. It's not that uncommon a recipe by any means.

(There are 34 recipes total in the galentine section. For a paper on  
the topic of galentines see "Of Pike and Pork) Wallowing in Galentine" by Hieatt and Terry Nutter that appeared in the 1997 Oxford Symposium on Food and Cookery.)

Let's see-- There's versions in the FoC, Harl. 279, and the Beinecke  
mss. Here's one from the Liber Cure Cocorum. This is Cindy Renfrow's translation.

79. Fillets in Galentine.

Take fillets of pork and half-roast them,
Smite them in pieces without boast;
Strain a mixture of blood and bread withal,
Add vinegar thereto, I know you shall;
Season it with powder of cinnamon, or good ginger,
Seethe it with the flesh, all together;
Salt and serve forth, then
Set it in hall before good men.

Cindy would also have included this recipe in her Take a Thousand Eggs  
or More because she included the Harl 279 in that set.

The question would be how different are the surviving recipes? A  
survey of the recipes would be pretty easy to assemble. Start with the  
Concordance and pull the recipes. How different is the Pynson recipe  
from the LCC recipe, for instance? If they are all much the same, then  
of course the recipe has been made in the past 500 or 600 years.

Johnnae

On Dec 7, 2009, at 8:04 AM, Elise Fleming wrote:
<<< Greetings!  The recipe below is from the Pynson "Boke of Cokery"  
from 1500 (recently posted on the Tudor Cook blog site).

To make fyletts in galentyne snipped

Here is an almost identical version from another book which I copied  
from Doc's web site:

Source [ A NobleBoke off Cookry, Robina Napier (ed.)]: To mak  
felettes in galentyne snipped

My question is - How many of you have made this dish?  That is, this  
specific dish with white wine, spices, and powdered ginger, not a  
different version of fylettes/fyletts in galentyne?  A comment had  
been made to me that the Pynson version probably hadn't been made  
for 500 years, but I know that you all delve into many different  
dishes, and the Pynson version is really the same as the "Napier"  
recipe.  So, who has played with this dish and how did you like it?

Alys K. >>>


Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2009 09:33:35 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Fyletts in Galentyne

You can google it and this version turns up on
http://greneboke.com/recipes/fyllettes_in_galyntyne.shtml

It's also indexed on Doc's website.

This recipe was served by Kristen Sullivan at the Marche of the  
Unicorn's Newcomer's Feast in the fall of 2006.

She includes the Napier recipe in her list. You might drop her a line  
and ask.

Johnna

On Dec 7, 2009, at 8:04 AM, Elise Fleming wrote:
<<< A comment had been made to me that the Pynson version probably  
hadn't been made for 500 years, but I know that you all delve into  
many different dishes, and the Pynson version is really the same  
as the "Napier" recipe.  So, who has played with this dish and how  
did you like it?

Alys K. >>>


Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2009 08:20:27 -0700
From: edoard at medievalcookery.com
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Fyletts in Galentyne

Avelyn's version tasted good to me, and was well received at the
Newcomer's feast.  I've done my own version (still unpublished), which
turned out pretty different from hers.  It was also good (have to dig
that one up and see if it's worth putting on line - it's good to have
multiple interpretations of the same dish out there).

Going from my (often faulty) memory, it's a reasonably easy and
versatile dish.  As long as the sauce is served separately (to
accommodate fussy or timid diners) it should be a good addition to the
SCA feast-scene repertoire.  Given how cheap pork usually is here in
Cincinnati, I should probably make it more often.

- Doc

-------- Original Message --------
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>

You can google it and this version turns up on
http://greneboke.com/recipes/fyllettes_in_galyntyne.shtml

It's also indexed on Doc's website.

This recipe was served by Kristen Sullivan at the Marche of the  
Unicorn's Newcomer's Feast in the fall of 2006.

She includes the Napier recipe in her list. You might drop her a line  
and ask.

Johnna


Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2009 08:48:49 -0700
From: edoard at medievalcookery.com
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Fyletts in Galentyne

I forgot to mention this in my previous response.  The link below is the
Fylettes in Galytyne recipe from Forme of Cury, and below the recipe are
links to 7 other versions - including a different one in Forme of Cury,
two from the Rylands copy of Forme of Cury, and 4 from other sources.

http://www.medievalcookery.com/cgi/display.pl?foc:116

- Doc


Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2009 09:17:44 -0800
From: Susan Fox <selene at earthlink.net>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Fyletts in Galentyne

I call it "period carnitas" and then my diners just yum it up.  I think 
we are looking at the wrong angle.  Not a discarded dish, but name changes.

Selene


Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2009 11:54:39 -0500
From: Elise Fleming <alysk at ix.netcom.com>
To: sca-cooks <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Fyletts in Galentyne

Sigh...  I started one post and put it aside and will try a second...

I asked if anyone had tried the version of fyletts in galentyne that I 
sent (Pynson and Napier who appear to be virtually identical).  I was 
referred to Doc's site, but I had already indicated that I copied 
Napier's version from his site.

Looking at Doc's site and the aforementioned recipes, Liber cure 
cocorum's recipe, while a galentine, isn't the same as the two I asked 
about.  It doesn't have white wine, cubebs, mace, pepper, cloves and it 
includes vinegar and blood.

Two Fifteenth-Century Cookery Books' recipe isn't the same.  It has beef 
or mutton broth.  Not white wine, and it includes blood or saunders and 
saffron.

Forme of Cury has blood, saunders, parsley, hyssop and red wine with 
raisons.  Not the same.

Avelyn's recipe for Fyllettes isn't the same.  It has beef broth, 
cinnamon, vinegar and sandalwood.  No white wine although it has ginger. 
 The recipe would be different.

Yeah, this is picky, but the person commented specifically about the 
white wine/ginger version.  And, yeah, 500 years is (as Adamantius 
mentioned) just a "lip-flapping" to indicate a long time ago.  Certainly 
400 years might be more accurate, but basically my correspondent was 
indicating that what I prepared hadn't been done for centuries.  I 
rather doubted that, given the group of folk (SCA) that I hang around 
with.  Which is why I asked if anyone had done the white wine/ginger 
version.  (Haven't heard yet that anyone has done so.  I have the beef 
broth on hand to try the other versions.)  I really had wanted to write 
back to my correspondent to say that no, I wasn't the "first one" to 
have tried the white wine/ginger version in hundreds of years... that in 
fact a half-dozen of my cookery friends had also tried it with (great? 
varied?) success.

So, I am starting to assume that most everyone does the version with 
beef broth or vinegar and that what Pynson (and Napier-Noble Boke off 
Cokery) published is a fairly (odd? rare?) version of a galentine that 
uses white wine for the piquancy rather than a red wine or just vinegar.

Alys K.
-- 
Elise Fleming
alysk at ix.netcom.com
http://home.netcom.com/~alysk/


Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2009 12:38:16 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Fyletts in Galentyne

Actually the Pynson version has been worked out with a working recipe
and will be appearing when Longleat releases the two volume Pynson  
edition.
Brenda Hosington and Hieatt did versions for all the Pynson recipes.  
That's part of what the forthcoming Pynson will contain.

My guess is that Terry Nutter also made it because she was nothing if  
not a completist. I thought we had a note that she'd done
all the galentine versions that she could find. She knew all about  
Napier and the Pynson.
I'll see if I can find that note.

Johnnae


Date: Tue, 08 Dec 2009 06:40:18 -0500
From: Elise Fleming <alysk at ix.netcom.com>
To: sca-cooks <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Fyletts in Galentyne
                                                                            
Stefan wrote:
<<< "What is a galentine?" and what isn't.  Most of these recipes sounded
like stews, but apparently it is more specific than that. I've been
trying to figure out how to catalog and describe these, but it also
sounds like Alys' message here is similar. >>>

Doc's Medieval Cookery site says that it is a sauce for meat which is 
thickened with bread crumbs.  Cindy Renfrew's site says that it is a 
cold dish with meat in jelly, or something similar.  Modern definitions 
include the idea of an aspic or jelly.  One site says that "galentine" 
possibly comes from the Latin "gelata" meaning "jelly".  I rather like 
what Hieatt and Butler say in their Glossary in "Curye on Inglysch". 
They, too, mention "jellied juices of meat or fish..." but note that the 
term was "transferred to the sauce...thickened with bread crumbs and 
spices".  Some galentyne sauces were served cold, some were served hot, 
according to Hieatt and Butler.  They continue (down the long reference) 
that it could be the name for the "spice(s) alone or with breadcrumbs". 
So, in this recipe, it's meat in a sauce thickened with breadcrumbs.

Is it a stew?  How do you define stew and how thick is it?  The recipe I 
sent says not to make it too "chargeaunt" (thick).  It didn't need to be 
served in a bowl the way some people's stews are.  (I like thick stews 
with only a little "juice".)

Alys, confusing the issue?
-- 
Elise Fleming
alysk at ix.netcom.com
http://home.netcom.com/~alysk/


Date: Tue, 08 Dec 2009 03:53:39 -0800
From: "Laura C. Minnick" <lcm at jeffnet.org>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Fyletts in Galentyne

Elise Fleming wrote:
<<< Doc's Medieval Cookery site says that it is a sauce for meat which is 
thickened with bread crumbs.  Cindy Renfrew's site says that it is a 
cold dish with meat in jelly, or something similar.  Modern 
definitions include the idea of an aspic or jelly.  One site says that 
"galentine" possibly comes from the Latin "gelata" meaning "jelly".  I 
rather like what Hieatt and Butler say in their Glossary in "Curye on 
Inglysch". They, too, mention "jellied juices of meat or fish..." but 
note that the term was "transferred to the sauce...thickened with 
bread crumbs and spices".  Some galentyne sauces were served cold, 
some were served hot, according to Hieatt and Butler.  They continue 
(down the long reference) that it could be the name for the "spice(s) 
alone or with breadcrumbs".  So, in this recipe, it's meat in a sauce 
thickened with breadcrumbs. >>>

I made this in camp at September Crown (Labor Day weekend). I was 
feeding 10. It was very popular and there were no leftovers. I made the 
version in the _Two Fifteenth-Century Cookery Books_. I also concluded 
that is was meat in a thickish sauce.

Must note here- I did not add blood. The recipe reads "... and strayne 
it on blode,  with ale, or else saunders," by which I understood the 
blood to be generally a coloring agent, and that it was either blood 
~or~ saunders. I have saunders in my big spice box, so I used it.

<<< Is it a stew?  How do you define stew and how thick is it?  The recipe 
I sent says not to make it too "chargeaunt" (thick).  It didn't need 
to be served in a bowl the way some people's stews are.  (I like thick 
stews with only a little "juice".) >>>

My sauce came out roughly applesauce-thick. Thin enough to be sopped up 
with bread, thick enough to not be running all over (and into one's 
lap). And we were using plates.

'Lainie


Date: Tue, 08 Dec 2009 07:06:23 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Galentynes again

Back in September 2003 we had this same discussion on what constitutes
a galentyne.

This compilation is what I sent in at that time--

Hope it helps

Johnnae

-----
Master A. wrote back in August 1999 to this very list--

I'm sitting here, minding my own business, reading Constance B. Hieatt's
'Of Pike (and Pork) Wallowing in Galentine', an article about, naturally
enough, galentine sauce and related matters, published in Prospect
Books' "Fish - Food From the Waters: Proceedings from the Oxford
Symposium on Food and Cookery, 1997"
Hieatt writes, in part:

"Recently, however, a fellow student of medieval recipes I have been
working with, Dr Terry Nutter, pointed out to me that among the numerous
English recipes for galentine - one of the most common of medieval sauce
recipes - there are a great many which could not possibly jell. Take,
for example, one from 'The Forme of Cury', an English collection
contemporary with Chaucer himself:

	" 'Take crusts of brede and grynde hem smale. Do (th)erto powder of
galyngale, of canel, of gyngyuer, and salt it; tempre it vp with
vyneger, and drawe it vp (th)urgh a straynour, & messe it forth.'

"Further, Dr Nutter, who did not start with any pre-conceived idea of
the nature of galentine sauce, was puzzled to find that the 23 recipes
she started with did not seem to have any ingredient at all in common.
None, she said: zero. So we may have to ask again just what galentine
sauce was - and what it meant to Chaucer."

Old timers on the SCA-Cooks list will, of course, remember Dr Terry
Nutter as Lady Katerine Rountre, currently living in, I think,  
Ansteorra. Cool, huh?

Adamantius

He mentioned that same article again in October 1999--
when he wrote:

According to Constance Hieatt, in an article written for the Oxford
Symposium on Food and Drink, the one consistent common factor about the
various versions of galantine is that there is abso-floggin'-lutely no
common factor. I believe I posted a mention of this in a thread
entitled: "Local Girl Makes Good". In the article Hieatt mentions a
colleague named Dr. Terry Nutter (a SCAdian currently named Lady
Katerine Rountre) (I think!), who used also to be a frequent poster to
this list) and who had collated ingredients of about 24 different
galantine recipes and determined that there are very few that have
enough ingredients in common to classify them by any category other than
name.
I was always under the impression that _most_ galantine recipes
contained galingale, but Hieatt claims this is not so. YM, and your
opinion and/or findings, MV.

Adamantius

and back in October 2001 I answered with the same citation when Master  
A. couldn't recall where it was after Terry's passing--

Raggum fraggum. I'm having some trouble finding it, but _some_where, I have
an article by, IIRC, Constance Hieatt, and based on research by our own late
Terry Nutter, of beloved memory, in which she discusses the similarities and
differences between galantine recipes, looking for a thread of galantine-ness
common to all of them. snipped
This just makes life more fun by confusing the issue... . ;  )
Adamantius,

---------------
The Hieatt article that mentions Terry Nutter is:

Hieatt, Constance B. "Of Pike (and Pork) Wallowing
in Galentine." in Fish, Food from the Waters.
Proceedings of the Oxford Symposium on Food and
Cookery, 1997. Totnes, Devon: Prospect Books, 1998.
ISBN: 0907325890.
The article is on pages 150-159.

Hope this helps ---

Johnnae llyn Lewis

<<< So, what is a "galantyne"? Somehow, I don't think it is a long rowed
boat made of galangale...
Stefan >>>


Date: Tue, 08 Dec 2009 07:34:39 -0500
From: Elise Fleming <alysk at ix.netcom.com>
To: sca-cooks <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Fyletts in Galentyne

Adamantius wrote:
<<< I was always under the impression that _most_ galantine recipes
contained galingale, but Hieatt claims this is not so. YM, and your
opinion and/or findings, MV. >>>

In Hieatt and Butler's glossary for "Curye on Inglysch", definition #2 
says "a spiced sauce thickened with breadcrumbs, usually containing 
galingale - probably as a result of false etymology; in some MS versions 
of IV 131 the two words are confused II 68, 69, etc".

So, some galentyne/galentine sauces contain galingale, but possibly 
because the cook thought that's what the sauce had to contain because of 
its name, and hence the confusion.

For those without the book, IV 131 is "Lamprouns in galyntyne" which 
uses galingale and NO thickening agent.  IV 130 is "Laumpreys in 
galyntyne" which does contain galingale but also contains bread, blood, 
and a number of common spices.  So, in 130, there is a thickening agent 
but not in 131.

The recipe in II 68 is for lampreys with galingale, ginger and canel. 
No bread or thickening agent but 69 has bread but no galingale, although 
it's called a "galentyne".  Ain't medieval cookery fun??

Alys K.
-- 
Elise Fleming
alysk at ix.netcom.com
http://home.netcom.com/~alysk/


Date: Tue, 08 Dec 2009 07:47:30 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Galentynes again

This is my updated information  on the topic of the elusive galentine.
It supplements what I just posted on the topic.

Starting with the publication of Constance Hieatt's "Of Pike (and  
Pork) Wallowing in Galentine" article that appeared in Fish Food from the Waters. Oxford Symposium 1997.

Terry Nutter traced all the galentine recipes for the article, including versions using lamprey, carp, pork, et cetera and yes there is a version that calls for pork or beef!

Appendix A on page 157 lists the French and English recipes.
Appendix B on page 158 charts out all the ingredients that show up in  
the various English and French recipes.

Wine, for instance, shows up 3 French recipes and in 5 14th century English recipes and in 17 15th century English recipes. Ginger shows up in just over half the versions.

(The list is handy because it answers questions as to whether or not there was a beef version. A version calling for beef or pork does turn up in the 14th century.)

There are also various named recipes for soppes galentine and sauces  
galentine.

Moving ahead to Concordance of English Recipes. Thirteenth through  
Fifteenth Centuries (2006) galentines are defined as:
"originally a jellied sauce" (<Fr. galantine, Lat. galatina; >  'gelatin'),
but it was thickened with bread and spiced, and the name was  
transferred to the sauce whether jellied or not - often served hot."

There are 34 English 13th-15th century recipes indexed in the galentine section.

Then there are three more 16th century recipes indexed in the Appendix. These are from the Book of Cookery and Dawson's Good Housewife's Jewell.

Lastly, Hieatt has identified another 5 galentine recipes that are  
15th century. Those can be found in A Gathering of Medieval English Recipes. 2009.

Johnnae llyn Lewis

<the end>
Edited by Mark S. Harris	Filts-Galtyne-msg	10 of 10