plums-msg – 10/25/18

Period plums and plum recipes.

NOTE: See also the files: grapes-msg, berries-msg, dates-msg, bananas-msg, figs-msg, fruits-msg, pomegranates-msg, cherries-msg, fruit-pies-msg.

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Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 17:57:23 -0500
From: gfrose at cotton.vislab.olemiss.edu (Terry Nutter)
Subject: Re:  SC - Plums period?

Hi, Katerine here.  Shirley asks about Italian plums.  I have no idea 
about the variety, but plums were certainly known and eaten.  They are
referred to in English recipes as prunes (which are indeed plums, not
the dried things we mean), bolas, or damsyns.  In Curye on Inglysch,
they occur in the following recipes:

	Diuersa Cibaria 49	Qwite plumen (White Plums)
	Diuersa Seruicia 76	Porreyne
	Forme of Cury 98	Erbowle (Bolas, i.e., Plums)*
	Forme of Cury 166	Leche frys in Lenten
	Forme of Cury 172	Tartee
	Forme of Cury 175	Tart de brymlent (Tart for Lent)*
	Forme of Cury 177	Tartletes

	* Other versions of the same recipe occur in Harley 279
	  (first MS in Two Fifteenth-Century Cookery-Books) PD 104
	  & 105, and Harley 5401 #53.

	** Another version in Arundel 334, on pg. 357 of the 
	   Society of Antiquaries/Nichols printing.

- -- Katerine/Terry


Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 18:01:02 -0500
From: gfrose at cotton.vislab.olemiss.edu (Terry Nutter)
Subject: Re: SC - Plums period?

Adamantius writes:

>If you're talking about the little Italian Prune plums, then while I
>don't know for sure that they're period, I can only assume that
>something very like them were what dried prunes were made from. They, of
>course, were pretty widely used in perod, all over Europe.

Hmmm... "prune" is the Middle English word for plum (well, one of them;
an earlier is "bola").  In English recipes, there's no indication that
prunes are used dried, and expert opinion is primarily to the contrary.
But I don't know about the continent.  I've been assuming that they were
using the fresh too; but that's an assumption.  Do you have any data?

When a variety is mentioned in English recipes, it's normally damsyns,
but I have no idea whether they are also available now.

- -- Katerine/Terry


Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 20:28:32 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Plums period?

Terry Nutter wrote:
> Adamantius writes:
> >If you're talking about the little Italian Prune plums, then while I
> >don't know for sure that they're period, I can only assume that
> >something very like them were what dried prunes were made from. They, of
> >course, were pretty widely used in perod, all over Europe.
> 
> Hmmm... "prune" is the Middle English word for plum (well, one of them;
> an earlier is "bola").  In English recipes, there's no indication that
> prunes are used dried, and expert opinion is primarily to the contrary.
> But I don't know about the continent.  I've been assuming that they were
> using the fresh too; but that's an assumption.  Do you have any data?
> 
> When a variety is mentioned in English recipes, it's normally damsyns,
> but I have no idea whether they are also available now.

Damson plums may have been a Middle Eastern import, like several other
items supposedly from Damascus. You can generally find damson plum
preserves in many supermarkets.

I can't think exactly where, but I'm sure I saw a recipe from the
medieval English corpus that calls for bullace plums, another variety
which I seem to recall is an unusually firm, "cooking" plum.

My only real evidence that suggests that dried prunes were used is from
comparatively late period. I do think it significant, though, that in
some of the earlier recipes calling for several fruits, the fruits seem
to be listed according to their state of freshness, which might also be,
coincidentally or not, an indication of diminishing quantity in the
recipe. So, you have the ubiquitous apples and pears, folowed by
raisins, dates, currants, and prunes. I guess if the prunes show up
(when they do at all) right after the pears, then there's no way of
knowing.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if this is a question of availability,
with fresh and dried being used interchangeably, depending on the
season.  It seems pretty clear that the later sources, many of which
call for prunes to be soaked in warm water or wine until they plump up,
are calling for dried fruit.

Adamantius


Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 20:38:34 -0700
From: ladymari at GILA.NET (Mary Hysong)
Subject: Re: SC - Plums period?

Terry Nutter wrote:
> When a variety is mentioned in English recipes, it's normally damsyns,
> but I have no idea whether they are also available now.

Damson varities of plums are
very available.  they are European in origin as opposed to Japanese.
There are also some other varieties native to the Americas.  You've
probably eaten a Damson variety from the store.
Mairi
- --
Mary Hysong <Lady Mairi Broder> and  Curtis Edenfield <The C-Man>


Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 13:12:47 -0400
From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow)
Subject: Re: SC - Plums period?

>Terry Nutter wrote:
>> Hi, Katerine here.
>> Adamantius writes:
<snip>>
>> Hmmm... "prune" is the Middle English word for plum (well, one of them;
>> an earlier is "bola").  In English recipes, there's no indication that
>> prunes are used dried, and expert opinion is primarily to the contrary.
>> But I don't know about the continent.  I've been assuming that they were
>> using the fresh too; but that's an assumption.  Do you have any data?
>>
<snip>>
>I can't think exactly where, but I'm sure I saw a recipe from the
>medieval English corpus that calls for bullace plums, another variety
>which I seem to recall is an unusually firm, "cooking" plum.
<snip>

Hello! A few scattered thoughts to add to the general confusion:

The words "bolas" and "bolasse" occur in Harleian MS. 279 Potage Dyvers
#104, meaning bullace plums.  Recipe #105 also contains the variant
spelling "Boolas".

Gerard, 1633 ed., p. 1498, says "The BulleÜÜe and the Sloe tree are wilde
kindes of Plums, which do vary in their kind, euen as the greater and
manured Plums do.  Of the BulleÜÜe, Üome are greater and of better taÜte
than others."

"The great Damaske or Damson Plummes are dryed in France in great
quantities, and brought ouer vnto vs in Hogs-heads, and other great
vessels, and are those Prunes that are vsually sold at the Grocers, vnder
the name of Damaske Prunes:  the blacke Bulleis also are those (being dryed
in the same manner) that they call French Prunes, and by their tartnesse
are thought to binde, as the other, being Üweet, to loosen the body.
The Bruneola Plumme, by reason of his pleasant tartnesse, is much accounted
of, and being dryed, the stones taken from them, are brought ouer to vs in
small boxes, and sold deere at the Comfitmakers, where they very often
accompany all other sorts of banquetting stuffes." (Parkinson, 1629, p.
578.)

Parkinson also lists about 60 varieties of plums.

Plum trees are very prolific, and the soft-skinned fruits are quick to rot.
I find it difficult to believe that the fruits could have all been used
fresh before they rotted.  Fresh plums are also not as flavorful and sweet
as the dried prunes.  Many fruits, such as cherries, grapes, and currants,
were preserved by drying in period times - why is there any doubt that
plums were dried as well?  Also, in the many recipes where prunes are
called for, it is usually in combination with dried fruits such as currants
and dates.

"The late ripe Cherries which the French men keepe dried against winter,
and are by them called Morelle, and we after the Üame name call them Morell
Cherries, are dry, and do somwhat bind:  these being dried are pleasant to
the taste, and holesome for the stomacke, like as Prunes be..." (Gerard,
1597 ed., p. 1324.)

"To write of Plums particularly would require a peculiar volume, and yet
the end not to be attained vnto, nor the stock or kindred perfectly
knowne...
Plummes that be ripe and new gathered from the tree, what sort soeuer they
are of, do moisten and coole, and yeeld vnto the body very little
nourishment, and the same nothing good at all:  for as Plummes do very
quickly rot, so is also the iuice of them apt to putrifie in the body, and
likewise to cause meate to putrifie which is taken with them.... Dried
Plums, commonly called Prunes, are wholsomer, and more pleasant to the
stomack, they yeeld more nourishment, and better, and such as cannot easily
putrifie.  It is reported, saith Galen in his booke of the faculties of
Nourishments, that the best doe grow in Damascus a city of Syria; and next
to those, they that grow in Spaine...Dioscorides saith, that Damaske Prunes
dried do stay the belly... (Gerard, 1633 ed., pp. 1496-98.)

Sincgiefu/Cindy Renfrow
renfrow at skylands.net


Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 16:48:04 -0500
From: gfrose at cotton.vislab.olemiss.edu (Terry Nutter)
Subject: Re: SC - Plums period?

Hi, Katerine here.  Sincgiefu quoted Gerard at length on plums, suggests that
fresh plums are prolific and don't keep, and asks why one should assume
that they were not dried like other fruits.

I suspect the answer has to do with where and when.  I am frankly reluctant
to accept a description of practices from the mid-17th century as telling
me much (or indeed anything) about practices in the 13th to 15th.  Setting
aside the sheer passage of time (350 years was a long then as it is now),
culinary practices changed radically between the 15th and 16th centuries.

There are several indications that plums were used fresh.  For instance,
the recipe for Bolas in the first manuscript in _Two Fifteenth-Century
Cookery-Books (H279 PD 104, p. 24-5) calls for washing them clean before
putting in liquid to boil; a step that is hardly necessary for dried fruit, 
and does not, to the best of my knowledge, occur in any recipe with
regard to dried fruit.  (It also does not echo a list of similar opening
instructions in previous recipes.)  You see the same thing in the recipe
for Porryene (Diuersa Servicia 76, p. 76, _Curye on Inglysch_), which
also says to take the "fayrist".  One sees such indications with fresh
ingredients, but you don't see suggestions to take the best of dried
fruit.

There are recipes, especially for pies, in which we have no indication
whether the plums are dried or fresh, but in which we also see dried
fruit (dates, raisins, currants).  In these cases, it seems reasonable
to guess that they may be dried; then again, most of these recipes
call for apples, pears, or both, and there is no reason at all to 
believe that these were most often used dried (as opposed to held
over season in cellars or similar storage, a practice that continued
into this century).

As to the prolific nature of the trees: most surviving recipes are
believed to stem from the kitchens of great households, which were
cooking for hundreds.  (Amounts, when they are given at all, tend to bear
that hypothesis out.)  I see no reason to suppose that such households
could not consume the output of a fuit tree -- especially considering
that serving manuals indicate that soft fruit was typically placed on
the table at the end of the meal, with soft cheese, wafers, and
hypocras.

There may well have been a trade in dried prunes; but if so, it would
have existed for the same reason as trade in other dried fruit (like
raisins): not because it wasn't possible to consume the fresh grapes,
but because there was an independent market for dried ones.  I'm
certainly open to the notion that dried prunes may have been used in
the 13th to 15th centuries; I rather suspect that in some of the pies,
they were dried.  But I would want stronger evidence before
I claimed it for a fact.  I do think that the evidence supports the
view that the dishes in which plums were the main ingredient used
them fresh.

- -- Katerine/Terry


Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 09:29:56 -0400
From: Sharon L Harrett <ceridwen at commnections.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Plums period?

	In "Medieval English Gardens", Terese McLean quotes several monastic
rolls from the 13th to 15th centuries, indicating that from these
sources at least, plums were usually used fresh, and wew stored after
harvest in barrels of bran or straw, requiring the cook to sort them out
before serving them. She also indicates that plums, along with certain
other soft fruits were not eaten until they were "ripe to the point of
(near) rotten (Neckham, 13th.C.)

Ceridwen


Date: Mon, 08 Jun 1998 08:23:41 -0500
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Jellies vs. aspics

> Probably the closest thing to conserves or fruit paste would be latwerge,
> basically fruit thickened by cooking it down. I think Kuchenmeysterei (c.
> 1490) might have a recipe, I don't know of any others.
>
> Valoise

Latwerge, huh? This wouldn't be made from plums, would it? There is a
thick plum butter found in Poland, I believe, called lekvar. I wonder if
there's some etymological cognate voodoo going on here...

Adamantius


Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 05:53:02 -0500
From: Melanie Wilson <MelanieWilson at compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu" <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: Sloes

Sloes are the wild plant that plums were bred from, they are very bitter
but have been used in history for jellies (I hope you know the type I mean
for meat & so on) flavouring drinks etc.

You pick them and stab them with one of their own thorns, here(UK) they
grow wild in the hedgrow & are used quite a lot by us country yokels :)

Mel


Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 14:05:55 -0500
From: capriest at cs.vassar.edu (Carolyn Priest-Dorman)
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Sloes

Aralyn asked:
>Isn't sloe another name for juniper berries?

Maybe it is over here, but I don't think it is in Europe.  In the European
archaeological literature I've read, the species of sloe found at several
Viking Age sites was _Prunus spinosa_, which is a species of plum not native
to the New World.  It's also called blackthorn or wild plum, although it's
not the same as the American wild plum.

Carolyn Priest-Dorman                 Thora Sharptooth
capriest at cs.vassar.edu                Frostahlid, Austrriki


Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 10:55:48 -0600
From: Roberta R Comstock <froggestow at juno.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: cherry wine

>> What is a sloe?

A sloe is the fruit of the blackthorn (Prunus spinosa).  It is a small,
sour, blackish plum-like fruit, best known to many in this day and age as
the flavor and coloring agent of sloe gin.  The name is also applied to
other closely related plants and their fruits.   (Random House College
Dictionary, Revised Edition 1980)

Hertha


Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 08:05:45 -0700
From: Susan Fox-Davis <selene at earthlink.net>
To: sca-cooks <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Plum loco

My parents have two plum trees just dripping, even drooping with fruit.
Cherry-sized golden plums and slightly larger purple-red plums.  I came
home last night with three bags full and learned some useful things.

1.  The Juiceman Juicing Machine is not necessarily the most efficient
way of making juice from soft fruit.

2.  Plumstones and gunstones both travel at a high velocity.  ZOUNDS!

I gave up on the juicer after the first bag, although I now have two
liters of wonderful nectar with I will freeze and use later.  The reds I
will make my traditional Plum Butter, which is just equal parts plum
puree and sugar, cooked until thickish.  Maybe do a batch with honey for
that really, really historical effect, but it's going to take a long
long time to cook.

Plum vinegar [now there's a potential jalab!], plum brandy, plum vodka,
I'm plumb tired out already and the tree hardly looks like I've been
picking.  Any more ideas, period recipes or such?

Selene the rosy-fingered


From: Christina Nevin <cnevin at caci.co.uk>
To: "SCA-Cooks (E-mail)" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 10:04:38 -0000
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: To bake a tarte of prunes (redaction and questions)

Sabina Welserin has a recipe that specifies, i.e.:
70 A tart with plums, which can be dried or fresh
and the next recipe is:
71 Another tart with fresh plums

Below is my redaction of the same recipe. I did it five years ago, and
probably isn't quite how I would do it nowadays, but it's sometimes useful
to compare different versions. As I remember, the filling was quite stodgy,
baked to a firm (Christmas) fruit mince consistency, and was one dish at
that feast that was completely eaten at the table.

To make a Tarte of Prunes: Take Prunes and wash them, then boil them with
faire water, cut in halfe a peny loaf of white bread, and take them out and
strain them with Claret wine, season it with sinamon, Ginger and Sugar, and
a little Rosewater, make the paste as fine as you can, and dry it, and fill
it, and let it drie in the oven, take it out and cast on it Biskets and
Carawaies.

12 oz (350 g) prunes
4 ox (100 g) fresh white breadcrumbs
=BD pint (275 ml) red wine
1 tsp (5 ml) cinnamon
1 tsp (5 ml) ground ginger
3 oz (75 g) sugar
1 T (15 ml) rosewater
Short (not flaky) Pastry sheets 
Soak the prunes overnight. Line a pie dish with the pastry and bake blind
(ie line pastry with greaseproof paper and fill with beans or ceramic baking
beads) at GM 7, 425 degrees F/220 degrees C for 15 minutes. Remove paper and beans/beads.
Simmer the prunes in a little water for 10 - 15 minutes until tender. Drain
and stone the prunes then blend them with the other ingredients to form a
smooth thick paste. Spoon the filling into the pastry case, and return to
the oven to bake at GM 4, 350 degrees F/180 degrees C for 1 hour 30 minutes. Serve either hot or cold.

Ciao
Lucrezia
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Lady Lucrezia-Isabella di Freccia   |  mka Tina Nevin
Thamesreach Shire, The Isles, Drachenwald


Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 18:44:02 -0600
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: plums in plum pudding
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> Makes sense, but I wonder at what point "prune" came to mean "dried
> plum", when it used to mean, to English-speakers, a variety of plum
> that frequently comes to us imported in dried form.
>
> Adamantius

Prunes are several varieties of plums, and modernly, particular hybrids
developed for drying.

"Prunus" (or "prunum") is the Latin for plum, as well as being scientific
name for the genera of plums.  It appears in a number of forms in European
languages.  Plum appears to be a derivative of the Latin neuter plural,
"pruna," apparently entering English from Old Low German.  Plum and 
prune are interchangable until late in SCA period.

The dried fruit was originally referred to as "dried plums" or "drie prunis"
(from a 14th Century reference).  By the 15th or 16th Century, prune was
being used to refer to the dried fruit.

Curiously, prune was also used to refer to raisins in Victoria's day.

Bear


Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 18:02:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: plums in plum pudding
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Here is what the Oxford Companion to Food says in
part about plums and prunes:

PLUM, the fruit of Prunus domestica and other
Prunus ssp.  Other members of the genus include
the apricot, peach, sloe, and cherry.  The
relationship between plums and cherries is
particularly close, the distinction being mainly
one of size.

The word 'plum' has a long history of often
ill-defined use.  In the Middle Ages it seems to
have meant virtually any dried fruit, including
raisins, and this usage underlies names such as
'plum pudding' and 'plum cake'.  Francesca
Greenoak, in her highly readable chapter on the
plum family, discusses this point in relation to
Christmas (plum) pudding, and suggests that
raisins had already supplanted plums before
Little Jack Horner (whose rhyme dates from the
16th Century) 'stuck in this thumb'; so that what
he pulled out was in fact a raisin.

Wild plums of several kinds are common throughout
the temperate parts of the northern hemisphere.
The earliest cultivation of plums, which took
place in China, was of the species P. salicina,
usually called 'Japanese plum' because it first
came to the notice of western botanists in Japan.

It seems likely that P. domestica, the most
important source of modern commercial cultivars,
is indigenous to Central Europe; but the time and
manner of its origin are uncertain.  This plum
does not seem to have been noticed by classical
Greek authors, nor by Roman authors in the
centuries BC.  Pliny the Elder (1st century AD)
commented with surprise that the earlier writer
Cato (for example) had not mentioned plums and
explains that by his own time there was a 'vast
throng' of them; he enumerated a dozen distinct
types.

Records survive which indicate that plums were
cultivated in the gardens of medieval monasteries
in England.  Chaucer refers to a garden with
'ploumes' and 'bulaces'.  The number of varieties
had increased considerably by the time of Gerard
(1633), who mentions having 'three score sorts in
my garden and all strange and rare'.  Two of his
main groups are the common damson and the
'Damascen Plum'.  His account shows that new
varieties were being imported from many European
countries.  Some of the best came from the
Balkans and S. Europe; he praises those in
Moravia in particular ...

PRUNE, the French word for plum, means in English
a dried plum.  The word has been used in English
in this sense since medieval times, although for
several centuries it could also, confusingly,
mean a fresh plum.

Prunes all come from a group of oval,
black-skinned plums.  Their special
characteristics are a very high level of sugar,
which allows them to be sun dried without
fermenting (although nowadays the process is
often speeded by drying machinery) and a 'free'
or easily detached stone, which is uncommon among
plums.  Prunes turn completely black in drying as
a result of enzyme action.  This would be
considered unacceptable in any other fruit, but
is deemed normal in prunes ...

The OCF goes on with comments about Prune d'Agen,
which is French, but does not talk about Italian
prunes whatsoever.

Huette


Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 11:35:12 -0700
From: David Friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] greengage plums
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> While at the grocery store the other day, I noticed that they had
> greengage plums and I got all excited and bought some. And now, true to
> form, I have no idea what to do with them.
>
> Does anybody have any ideas?
>
> Margaret

Eat them--they're yummy.

They should still be in season by Pennsic--at least, ours generally
come ripe when we are gone on our Pennsic trip--so bring them if you
are coming. They are supposed to be period or close.
-- 
David Friedman
www.daviddfriedman.com


Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 12:41:10 -0400
From: Daniel Myers <edouard at medievalcookery.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] greengage plums
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

On Jul 14, 2004, at 11:47 AM, Pixel, Goddess and Queen wrote:
> I was more looking for something cooked. Something along the lines of
> "I've made X from Y with plums and it was really good" or similar. There
> is a scarcity of plum recipes in my period cookery library, and I don't
> remember the family's traditional plum kuchen being made with
> greengages (nor do I have the recipe, darn it all).

While it's not the correct variety of plum for this recipe, it should
still be reasonably close.

	To make a tarte of damsons.

	 Take damsons and boyle theym in wyne,
	 eyther red or claret, and put there to a dosen
	 of peares, or els whyte bread, too make
	 theym styffe wyth all, then drawe theym up
	 wyth the yolkes of syxe egges and swete
	 butter and so bake it.

Source:  A Proper newe Booke of Cokerye (mid-16th c.)
	http://staff-www.uni-marburg.de/~gloning/bookecok.htm


- Doc
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
   Edouard Halidai  (Daniel Myers)
   http://www.medievalcookery.com/


Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 10:53:49 -0700
From: David Friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] greengage plums
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> I was more looking for something cooked. Something along the lines of
> "I've made X from Y with plums and it was really good" or similar. There
> is a scarcity of plum recipes in my period cookery library, and I don't
> remember the family's traditional plum kuchen being made with greengages
> (nor do I have the recipe, darn it all).
>
> Margaret

I've only made the following with dried plums,
but it's for either fresh or dried:

70   A tart with plums, which can be dried or fresh (Sabina Welserin)

	Let them cook beforehand in wine and
strain them and take eggs, cinnamon and sugar.
Bake the dough for the tart. That is made like
so: take two eggs and beat them. Afterwards stir
flour therein until it becomes a thick dough.
Pour it on the table and work it well, until it
is ready. After that take somewhat more than half
the dough and roll it into a flat cake as wide as
you would have your tart. Afterwards pour the
plums on it and roll out after that the other
crust and cut it up, however you would like it,
and put it on top over the tart and press it
together well and let it bake. So one makes the
dough for a tart.

3/4 lb prunes--about 25
Wine 1 1/2 c red
2 Eggs
1 t Cinnamon
1 T Sugar

2 Eggs
1 1/2 c flour

Simmer the prunes in the wine for about 40
minutes, until they are quite soft. Remove the
pits, force them through a strainer. Add two
eggs, sugar, cinnamon.

Beat two more eggs well with a fork, then beat
and stir in about 1 1/2 c flour, gradually. Knead
the dough smooth. Divide in two slightly unequal
portions. Roll out the larger about 8"x12" oval.
Roll the smaller not quite as large, cut into
strips. Pour the prune goo onto the larger crust,
cover with a lattice made from the strips. Bake
at 325° for about 30-40 minutes.
--  
David/Cariadoc
www.daviddfriedman.com


Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 10:54:33 -0700
From: David Friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] greengage plums
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> How do greengage plums differ from other plums?

They taste better.
--  
David/Cariadoc


Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 11:42:45 -0700
From: David Friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] greengage plums
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> At 07:10 AM 7/15/04 -0500, Bear wrote:
>> Greengage plums are a variety of plum having skin color of greenish yellow
>> or yellowish green.  They are named after Sir William Gage, an 18th Century
>> botanist, so I suspect they may be a post period hybrid.
>
> The modern tree could well be a post period
> hybrid but it would very likely develop from a
> yellow plum, possibly a native.  I have a native
> plm (Klamath Plum, native to Western US) in my
> backyard.  It is yellow but some other specimens
> around town are red.  It would not surprise me
> to learn the both yellow and red plums were
> known to our ancestors.

My  memory is that, according to the outhmeadow
Nursery catalog (they specialize in old and
unusual fruit tree varieties, and seem well
informed) the old name for the variety is "Reine
Claude," and it existed at least by the early
seventeenth century.

According to one online source:

"Calle Reine-Claude in France, after Claude, the
queen of François I, the greengage was brought to
Britain in 1724 by Sir William Gage. The
seedlings lost their labels en route, and soon
became known as greengages after their British
patron."
--  
David/Cariadoc
www.daviddfriedman.com


Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 16:29:31 +1000
From: "Arglwyddes Rhiannahn" <rhaeader at bigpond.com>
Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] greengage plums
To: "'Cooks within the SCA'" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

At Lochacs Midwinter Coronation the Lochac Cooks’ Guild held a  
competition for preserves.

One entry presented was a preserve using greengage plums – the receipt was taken
from Elinor Fettiplace’s Receipt Book – pgs 128 – 132 To Preserve Plums or
Gooseberries

This tasted absolutely lovely

Rhiannahn
Lochac Cooks’ Guild Administrator


Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 08:25:23 -0600
From: Sue Clemenger <mooncat at in-tch.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] greengage plums
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

I made those (or something very similar) for a feast a few years ago,
only I opted to use fresh plum halves instead of the cooked puree I see
delineated below.  Dunno why I left them whole like that (perhaps a
misreading of the recipe? perhaps expediency?), but they worked nicely.
   I did them up as individually-sized tartlets.
--maire

David Friedman wrote:
> I've only made the following with dried plums, but it's for either 
> fresh or dried:
>
> 70   A tart with plums, which can be dried or fresh (Sabina Welserin)
>
>     Let them cook beforehand in wine and strain them and take eggs,
> cinnamon and sugar. Bake the dough for the tart. That is made like so:
> take two eggs and beat them. Afterwards stir flour therein until it
> becomes a thick dough. Pour it on the table and work it well, until it
> is ready. After that take somewhat more than half the dough and roll it
> into a flat cake as wide as you would have your tart. Afterwards pour
> the plums on it and roll out after that the other crust and cut it up,
> however you would like it, and put it on top over the tart and press it
> together well and let it bake. So one makes the dough for a tart.


Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 08:44:22 -0400
From: "a5foil" <a5foil at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Plums  was: Lammas 1005 menu
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

According to Hagen, plum and sloe stones have been recovered at both York
and Gloucester. They may have had a variety similar to damsons. So  
it's not unreasonable to have plums in Dublin.

Cynara


Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 14:34:03 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] RE:  Plums  and Irish
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Plants & People in Ancient Scotland by Dickson & Dickson (2000)
notes that in digs around Edinburgh Castle in 1984-91,
"A fragment of Plum or Bullace type stone was also found". This was
dated to 100 to 300 AD.

I read this as being these were Prunus institia or bullace plums.

Johnnae


Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2005 14:57:49 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] RE:  Plums  and Irish
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Dug out my copy Mabey's Flora Britannica. Mabey notes that "It is possible that
the tree known as the bullace (P. domestica ssp. insititia) with large
sloe-like fruits is native in woodlands in Britain. But its fruits are barely
distinguishable from naturalised, dark fruited damsons."

He notes that some are relect or bird sown and some trees found today are
crosses between the blackthorn and various sweeter flavored Asian plums that
were introduced more recently.

Johnnae

> Plants & People in Ancient Scotland by Dickson & Dickson (2000)
> notes that in digs around Ednburgh Castle in 1984-91,
> "A fragment of Plum or Bullace type stone was also found". This was
> dated to 100 to 300 AD.
> I read this as being these were Prunus insititia or bullace plums.
>
> Johnnae


Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 20:19:32 +0200
From: UlfR <ulfr at hunter-gatherer.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] RE:  Plums  and Irish
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

UlfR <ulfr at hunter-gatherer.org> [2005.08.08] wrote:
> Terry Decker <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net> [2005.08.07] wrote:
>> Were I looking for further evidence to support or refute the  
>> contention, I
>> would look at what information is available on the diet of Viking Era
>> Dublin.

> I have a sleeping child on my shoulder, else I could check a PhD thesis
> on viking age plant food I've got lying around.

The child has woken up and I have found the book :-/

Sounce:
   Ann-Marie Hansson  "On Plant Food in the Scandinavian Peninsula in  Early
   Medieval Times"  Thesis at Archaelogical Research Laboratory (Stockholm
   University) 1997

She lists that there was traces of "Prunus sp." found in Birka. Most of
the thesis was on bread (with some work on hops and plant food remains
from a couple of sited. No idea what Prunus species, though.

/UlfR
-- 
UlfR Ketilson                               ulfr at hunter-gatherer.org


Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2006 15:54:47 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] plums
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Italian plums (or Naples plums) are a sweet varietal of Prunus domesticus (sometimes appearing as P. cocomilia).  They grow regionally in SE Europe, Italy, the Balkans, Greece and into Turkey.  There is also the consideration that the "Italian plums" may be even more generic being any plum from  
Italy.

"...and the blond plums of autumn..." is a phrase that appears in the
elegaic poem "Copa" from the Appendix Vergiliana (1st Century BCE).  So they may be of European origin, even if they are being used in Japan.  We don't know when they arrived.

Japan has a number of long cultivated, if not indigenous, plum species and varietals.

I haven't seen any references to plum wine in medieval Europe, but the national drink of Serbia is slivovitz and I'm willing to bet they were drinking plum wine before they made plum brandy.

Bear

> Selene commented:
> <<< I want a big bucket of the red ones to do more plum wine, the last batch
> [which I hoard fervently] came out better than the best plum wine you ever
> had at a Japanese restaurant.  My mother calls them ?Italian plums? but I
> wonder if they are not actually Japanese, particularly the golden
> ones. >>>
>
> I've heard of plum wine before, but it has always been mentioned in
> connection to Japan.
>
> Do we have evidence of plum wine being made in medieval Europe?
> Perhaps it just that a lot more grapes were grown than plums, so
> grape wine was more prevalent? Does/did Japan grow grapes? If not,
> perhaps that would also be a reason that plum wines are more
> associated with Japan.
>
> Stefan


Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2006 16:42:02 -0700
From: "Laura C. Minnick" <lcm at jeffnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] 'Tis the Season (for produce, not sillies)
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

> Can you share your recipe for the plum sauce?  I have one and would  
> like to compare the two...
>
> Kiri

Here's the one I used two years ago when we were awash in plums:

from _Two Fifteenth Century Cookery Books_

Ciiij. Bolas.?Take fayre Bolasse, wasshe hem clene, & in Wyne boyle hem ?at
?ey be but skaldyd bywese, & boyle hem alle to
pomppe,<http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/text-idx? 
c=cme;cc=cme;rgn=main;view=trgt;lvl=1;idno=CookBk;id=DLPS62;note=inline> 
*
& draw hem ?orw a straynoure, & a-lye hem with flowre of Rys, & make it
chargeaunt, & do it to ?e fyre, & boyl it; take it of, & do ?er-to whyte
Sugre, gyngere, Clowys, Maces, Canelle, & stere it wyl to-gederys: ?anne
take gode perys, [leaf 19 bk.] & sethe hem wel with ?e Stalke, &  sette hem
to kele, & pare hem clene, and pyke owt ?e corys; ?an take datis, &  wasshe
hem clene, & pyke owt ?e Stonys, & fylle hem fulle of blaunche poudere: ?an
take ?e Stalke of ?e Perys, take ?e Bolas, & ley .iij. lechys in a dysshe, &  
sette ?in perys ?er-yn.

Very tasty, and acidic enough that I canned it like applesauce.
Yummyummyummy on pork or chicken...

'Lainie (we have another 3 weeks or so until ours are ripe)


Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 21:39:59 -0400
From: ranvaig at columbus.rr.com
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Round one - Plum Butter
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

I started looking at this recipe from translating the word  
"Latwergen" which means a spiced fruit syrup or puree.    The word is  
related to "electuary", a medicinal paste mixed with jam or syrup for  
oral consumption.

Rumpolt calls this Plum Confect, but the recipe calls for cherries.   
It could be a typo, but I used plums, which were cheaper.  Plums that  
you cook down and keep in a jar sounds like plum butter to me. I  
found a very similar modern recipe and changed the spices to the ones  
called in Rumpolt.

The recipe is called a Confect, but the ones after is say "Du magst  
auch wohl ein solche Latwerge machen von Hollunderbeer" "You might  
also make such a Latwerge from elderberries", or  from sloes, or apples.

There is another reference to Latwergen in Von Spicen, that is a  
candy that you roll out and cut into pieces.
http://www.advancenet.net/jscole/maidens.htm


I cut the plums in half, removed the stone, and cooked the plums  
until soft.   I thought the texture would be better without the  
skins, so I peeled them, processed in the food processor.  There were  
still visible pieces of skin, so I ran it though a sieve.  A food  
mill would be even better but it only took half an hour to peel and  
puree the plums.   It looked pretty much like pink applesauce.

So far so good.  But I had added too much water, I was afraid it  
would boil off and burn, but I think it would have been fine.  The  
puree tasted good but was very thin.  And it filled the slow cooker  
to the top.  I let it cook down until there was room to add the sugar  
and it was back to the top.

It was still very thin.  By now it had been cooking 24 hours, and  
tasted decidedly like prunes... not quite what I intended.  And was  
still pretty thin.

So it cooked some more, just an inch down from the top.  Now it was  
still quite thin, but down right black... and tasted like burned  
prunes.  Yechhh.

I washed it down the drain and will try again tomorrow with a new  
batch of plums.  I'm going to set up a steamer, I think, and no added  
water at all.  And try a slow oven to reduce the puree.  I don't  
think the slow cooker had enough surface area.  I may even get a food  
mill, which is what this recipe really needs.  Any other suggestions?

Ranvaig


Pflaumen Confect - Plum butter

6 lb plums, 1 c water,  6 c. cane sugar, 2 tsp cinnamon, 1/2 tsp  
ground cloves.
Wash the plums, cut in half and remove the stones.  Cook until the  
fruit is soft, about an hour. Press through a food mill or sieve to  
puree and remove the skins.  Or you can leave the skins on and puree  
in a food processor.  Wild plums have a bitter skin that should be  
removed. Measure the puree and add an equal amount of sugar and the  
spices.
Cook in a crock pot on low for 8 hours, uncover and cook for another  
hour until very thick.  When you put a spoonful on a plate, no water  
should separate out.

Rumpolt Confect 23. Ungarische Pflaumen Confect / es sei wei? oder  
braun. Nimm die sauren Weichesl / und thu die Stengel darvon / setz  
sie in einem Kessel auf dz Feuwer oder Kolen / und la? auf sieden /  
denn sie geben von sich selbst Saft genug. Wenn sie kalt sein / so  
streich sie durch ein H?rin Tuch / thu sie in ein uberzindten  
Fischkessel / und setz auf Kolen / la? sieden / und r?rs umb / da?  
nicht anbrennet. Und wenns halb eingesotten ist / so nimm gestossenen  
Zimt und Nelken darunter / machs wohl f?? mit Zucker / und la? darmit  
sieden / bi? wohl dick / setz hinweg / und la? kalt werden / so  
kanstu es aufheben / so helt sichs ein Jar oder zwei.

Hungarian Plum Preserves/ be it white or brown.  Take the sour  
cherries/ and take the stems from it/ set them in a kettle over the  
fire or coals/ and let simmer/ until they give from themselves enough  
juice.  When it is cold then strain it through a hair cloth/ put them  
in a tinned fishkettle/ and set on coals/ let simmer/ and stir up/  
that it doesn't burn.  And when it is half cooked/ then take a little  
ground cinnamon and cloves in it/ make well sweet with sugar/ and let  
simmer together/ until it well thickened/ take away/ and let cool/ so  
you can lift it/ and keep it in a jar or two.


Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 19:13:23 -0700
From: Susan Fox <selene at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Round one - Plum Butter
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

My suggestion is NO WATER.

I use plum puree and sugar in equal amounts and it comes out lovely.
Occasionally a scant shake of ground cloves.

Selene

ranvaig at columbus.rr.com wrote:
> I started looking at this recipe from translating the word  
> "Latwergen" which means a spiced fruit syrup or puree.    The word  
> is related to "electuary", a medicinal paste mixed with jam or  
> syrup for oral consumption.


Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 20:32:03 -0700
From: Susan Fox <selene at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Round one - Plum Butter
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Vitaliano Vincenzi wrote:
> Pardon my naivety, but if the translation calls them "sour cherries",
> why are you using plums? I don't get the connection - which is
> probably my inexperience with period recipes as of yet, but can you
> explain the connection? Thank you.

They are closely related botanically, of the Genus Prunus, and behave
similarly when cooked.  Evidently the plums were more readily
available.  [They are for me too -- my parents have plum trees.]  I'd
love to try this with fresh cherries though, maybe next year.

Selene


Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 23:21:53 -0500
From: "otsisto" <otsisto at socket.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Round one - Plum Butter
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Are you using the red plums? This would make better sense if the recipe
calls for sour cherries, as red plums are usually tart.

De

-----Original Message-----
They are closely related botanically, of the Genus Prunus, and behave
similarly when cooked.  Evidently the plums were more readily
available.  [They are for me too -- my parents have plum trees.]  I'd
love to try this with fresh cherries though, maybe next year.

Selene


Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 03:09:01 -0400
From: ranvaig at columbus.rr.com
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Round one - Plum Butter
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

> Pardon my naivety, but if the translation calls them "sour cherries",
> why are you using plums? I don't get the connection - which is
> probably my inexperience with period recipes as of yet, but can you
> explain the connection? Thank you.
>
>> Pflaumen Confect - Plum butter

Well, the translation is my own.  But the recipe TITLE is Plum  
confect.  Why would Rumpolt make plum butter with cherries?  Perhaps  
they were more available to him.  But I'm assuming that a recipe  
called Plum was, at least sometimes, made with plums.

And plums are 99 cents pound, while cherries are 3.99.

Ranvaig


Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 07:49:42 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Round one - Plum Butter
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

>> Pardon my naivety, but if the translation calls them "sour cherries",
>> why are you using plums? I don't get the connection - which is
>> probably my inexperience with period recipes as of yet, but can you
>> explain the connection? Thank you.
>>
>>> Pflaumen Confect - Plum butter
>
> Well, the translation is my own.  But the recipe TITLE is Plum confect.
> Why would Rumpolt make plum butter with cherries?  Perhaps they were more
> available to him.  But I'm assuming that a recipe called Plum was, at
> least sometimes, made with plums.
>
> And plums are 99 cents pound, while cherries are 3.99.
>
> Ranvaig

The term "Weichsel" is a shortened version of  "Weichselkirsche."  While
commonly used to refer to cherries (Kirsch) the term also refers to the
River Vistula in specific and Poland in general.  I think what it being
stated is to use Polish plums.

BTW, and obsolete term for plums is Rosine, which is modern German for
raisin.

Bear


Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 15:20:22 +0200 (CEST)
From: Volker Bach <carlton_bach at yahoo.de>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Round one - Plum Butter
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

> "Plum" may not refer at all to a fruit, but to a
> translation of "good" as in plum pudding.

I don't think that works in German. 'Pflaume' has all
menner of modern and historical slang meanings, but
'good' is not really one I'm familiar with.

> I am also >curious if anyone else sees this turning
> more into a marmalade sort of affair . . . or is it
> my own prejudice of having made it in the past, and
> thinking jams/jelies are right out (I suspect that
> is my prjudice showing through).  The pouring into a
> tinned fish kettle and  "so you can lift it out"
> appears.  Really thick 'paste' came right to mind.

I made 'confect' like that a while ago (apples and
apricots) and it turned out thick and heavily gelled.
I'd say more like an electuary than a modern breakfast
'jelly'. I do suspect that that was the idea, a
variation on the theme of fashionable cotignac.

Giano


Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 12:07:53 -0400
From: silverr0se at aol.com
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Round one - Plum Butter
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

I agree with Selene - no water. Put the cut plums in a heavy pot,  
cover them with sugar and put on a VERY low heat. The juice from the  
plums will dissolve the sugar, then you can increase the heat. I  
leave the skins on during cooking for the color, then remove them  
later, but I do not puree the fruit.

I think the "prune-y" taste developed from cooking it too long. I  
used the recipe from Eleanor Fettiplace's Receipt Book - since I  
don't have the timing memorized, you might want to check in there.

If the jam doesn't work, check out the Florileium article I wrote on  
making Sugar Plums.

Renata

<<< My suggestion is NO WATER.

I use plum puree and sugar in equal amounts and it comes out lovely.
Occasionally a scant shake of ground cloves.

Selene  >>>


Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 21:06:01 +0200 (CEST)
From: Volker Bach <carlton_bach at yahoo.de>
Subject: [Sca-cooks]  Rosine was Plum Butter
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

> Rumpolt most often refers to "kleine schwarze
> Rosein".  But also to "schwartze Rosein", "kleine
> Rosein", and in a few places to "grosse Rosein".  I
> had taken the small raisins to be what we call
> currents.  Could they perhaps be regular raisins and
> the "grosse Rosein" be dried plums?

It's possible, but I would doubt it. The usual term
for these would be duerre Pflaumen or Doerrpflaumen,
and Rumpoldt makes reference to dried fruit elsewhere
(can't recall plums, but apples definitely). Raisins
come in a wide variety of shapes, shades and sizes. A
good cook might well include in his instructions which
kind to use (to this day, a really good food retailer
in Germany will be able to sell you regular raisins
(Rosinen), currants (Korinthen) and white raisins
(Weinbeeren).


Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 15:44:51 -0700
From: "K C Francis" <katiracook at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Round one - Plum Butter
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

I just made a recipe called Plum Pudding with Pears.  Plums cooked down in
red wine, strained of skin and pits, thickened with rice flower and seasoned
with sugar and spices.  It was served at a feast and my batch was just as
good.  It was decorated with cutouts from thin slices of ripe pear.  We have
since decided it is excellent on french toast, spread on crisp wafers, and
would be wonderful spooned over ice cream.  The consistancy is quite like
apple butter, the thick homemade kind, not the runny store bought stuff.

Here is what was posted on West-Cooks:
Plum Pudding with Pears
Page 24-25 .Ciiij. Bolas.

Take fair plums, wash them clean, & in wine boil them that they be
but scalded byweese [in a small amount of wine?], & boil them all to
pulp, & draw them through a strainer, & add to them rice flour, &
make it thick, & do it to the fire, & boil it; take it off & add to
it white sugar, ginger, cloves, maces, canel & stir it well together;
then take good pears & seethe them well with the stalk & set them to
cool & pare them clean, and pick out the cores; then take dates and
wash them clean, and pick out the stones, & fill them with white
powder: then take the stalk of the pears, take the Plum-Pudding & ley
iii slices in a dish, & set the pears there in.

Ingredients for plum pudding:

13 small plums with seeds
2 cups red wine (Red Beaijolais)
1/2 cup rice flour
1 cup sugar – may need less if using a sweeter wine
1/4 teaspoon ginger
1/8 teaspoons Cloves
1/8 teaspoons Mace
1 teaspoons Cinnamon

Ingredients for non-pudding garnishes:

pears, cut into fanciful shapes
Scully's Fine spice powder *

Process:

Simmer whole plums in wine until they break down. Strain the pulp. I
ended up with about 4 cups of plum sauce. Add the rice flour and cook
until thick. Add sugar and spices.

When it was hot/warm the spices were not as prevalent. As it cooled
they were stronger. If we are serving this warm we may want to add
more spice.

To serve, arrange pear shapes on top and sprinkly with a small amount
of spice powder.

* Fine Spice Powder:
3 tablespoons ground ginger
1 1/2 tablespoons cinnamon
1 teaspoon grains of paradise
1 teaspoon ground cloves
2 tablespoons sugar

(from Early French Cookery; D.E Scully and T. Scully)

Plum pudding redaction: Lady Anna Serre
The plum pudding was taken from
_Two Fifteenth Century Cookery Books (1430-1450)_, Thomas
Austin, editor., Early English Text Society, Oxford University
Press, 1964


Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2010 14:57:50 -0700
From: David Friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Damson Plums

<<< I will be getting a good supply of damson plums 
soon. I will be making candied plums and jam. Do 
any of you have any additional suggestions?

For those who don't know, damsons are a period 
variety of plum and are quite tasty.

Juana Isabella
West >>>

70   A tart with plums, which can be dried or fresh (Sabina Welserin)

	Let them cook beforehand in wine and 
strain them and take eggs, cinnamon and sugar. 
Bake the dough for the tart. That is made like 
so: take two eggs and beat them. Afterwards stir 
flour therein until it becomes a thick dough. 
Pour it on the table and work it well, until it 
is ready. After that take somewhat more than half 
the dough and roll it into a flat cake as wide as 
you would have your tart. Afterwards pour the 
plums on it and roll out after that the other 
crust and cut it up, however you would like it, 
and put it on top over the tart and press it 
together well and let it bake. So one makes the 
dough for a tart.

3/4 lb prunes--about 25
Wine 1 1/2 c red
2 Eggs
1 t Cinnamon
1 T Sugar

2 Eggs
1 1/2 c flour

Simmer the prunes in the wine for about 40 
minutes, until they are quite soft. Remove the 
pits, force them through a strainer. Add two 
eggs, sugar, cinnamon.

Beat two more eggs well with a fork, then beat 
and stir in about 1 1/2 c flour, gradually. Knead 
the dough smooth. Divide in two slightly unequal 
portions. Roll out the larger about 8"x12" oval. 
Roll the smaller not quite as large, cut into 
strips. Pour the prune goo onto the larger crust, 
cover with a lattice made from the strips. Bake 
at 325? for about 30-40 minutes.

We did it with dried plums (i.e. prunes), but the 
recipe offers the alternative of fresh plums.

If you do get good damson plum recipes, let me 
know--I have two or three damson plum bushes, 
although not yet big enough to bear.
-- 
David/Cariadoc
www.daviddfriedman.com


Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2010 18:00:51 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Damson Plums

<<< For those who don't know, damsons are a period variety of plum and are 
quite tasty.

Juana Isabella >>>

Damson actually applies to several varieties, some of which may not be all 
that ancient.  The particular damsons (damascenes) to which you refer are 
the subspecies Prunus insititia.  Also known as bullace plums.

Bear 


Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2010 19:08:51 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Damson Plums

from Delights for Ladies (England, 1609)

8 - The most kindely way to preserve plums, cherries, gooseberries,  
&c. You must first purchase some reasonable quantity of their owne  
juyce, with a gentle heat upon embers, in pewter dishes, dividing the  
juice still as it commeth in the strewing; then boile each fruit in  
his own juyce, with a convenient proportion of the best refined sugar.

31 - To make Marmelade of Quinces or Damsons. When you have boyled  
your Quinces or Damsons sufficiently, straine them; then dry the pulp  
in a pan on the fire; and when you see there is no water in it, but  
that it beginneth to be stiffe, then mix two pound of sugar with three  
pound of pulp: this marmelade will bee white marmelade: and if you  
desire to have it looke with an high colour: put your sugar and your  
pulp together so soone as your pulp is drawne, and let them both boile  
together, and so it will look of the colour of ordinary marmelade,  
like unto a stewed warden; but if you dry your pulp first, it will  
look white, and take lesse sugar: you shall know when it is thick  
enough, by putting a little into a sawcer, letting it coole before you  
box it.

Or from

 The Treasurie of commodious Conceits which I made available last  
spring (England, 1573 - )
The original source can be found at MedievalCookery.com

Plummes condict in Syrrope Chapter. xv.

TAke halfe a pounde of Suger, halfe a pint of Rosewater and a pinte of  
fayre Raynewater, or of some other distilled water, seeth ye Suger &  
ye two waters vpo a softe fyre of coles, till ye one halfe be  
consumed: the take it fro ye fire & when it leaueth boylig, put therin  
halfe a pound of ripe  Damazines, or other plummes, & let it agayne on  
the embers, & kepe it in the lyke heate tyll the plummes be softe by  
the space of an howre if neede bee, then put into it some cloues  
brused and when it is coulde keepe it in a Glasse, or in an earthen or  
Gallypotte, the stronger the Syrrope is with Suger, the better it wyll  
continew. Some put into the Syrroup Sinimon, Saunders, Nutmegges,  
Cloues, and a little Ginger: seethe them not hastely for feare of  
muche breaking.

OR another from the same source:

To keepe Damsins in syrop. TAke Damsins & picke them wt a knife, or a  
pi the take clarified Suger as much as you shall thinke wil serue &  
then you must boyle it til it be as thick as birdlime: Then boyle your  
Damsins in ye clarified sugre, til they be soft, the take the vp, and  
put them in a glasse, then you must boyle ye syrop, till it be thick  
as ye other was, before you put in ye Damsins, & as soone as it is so  
thick you muste powre it into the Damsins and so couer them close.

Johnnae


Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2010 17:03:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Damson Plums

I don't know if when you say candied plums, you actually mean sugar plums, or not.  If you want to read a good article about them, go the to Boke of Good Cookerie and read the article and recipes he gives.

http://www.godecookery.com/friends/frec74.htm

Huette


Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2010 17:44:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Donna Green <donnaegreen at yahoo.com>
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Damson Plums

Yes, that is the recipe I use for the candying process. It works well with cherries, plums, apricots, peaches and figs. And the by-product is a marvelous syrup that my sweetie turns into interesting cocktails.

Juana Isabella
West

From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>
<<< I don't know if when you say candied plums, you actually
mean sugar plums, or not.? If you want to read a good
article about them, go the to Boke of Good Cookerie and read
the article and recipes he gives.

http://www.godecookery.com/friends/frec74.htm

Huette >>>


From the fb "SCA Cooks" group:

Brigitte Webster
11/21/18
I am currently looking into the greengage and find various statements that Parkinson mentions it as 'VERDOCH' in his Paradisi in Sole in 1629 but I have looked through my hard copy 3 times now and either it is not mentioned or I am totally blind ! Has anybody spotted 'Verdoch' in Parkinson's or anywhere else ( pre 1700 ) ? Grateful for any hints ! Thank you !

Ethan Taylor 
It would appear that you are looking for a variety of plum.

"The Verdoch plum is a great fine greene f(s)hining plum..."

<the end>
Edited by Mark S. Harris	plums-msg	26 of 26