fruits-msg - 9/9/09
਀ഊMedieval fruits and fruit dishes. Recipes.
਀ഊNOTE: See also the files: apples-msg, fruit-quinces-msg. sugar-msg, vegetables-msg, melons-msg, nuts-msg, pomegranates-msg, cherries-msg, berries-msg, fruit-citrus-msg.
਀ഊ************************************************************************
਀一伀吀䤀䌀䔀 ⴀഊ
਀吀栀椀猀 昀椀氀攀 椀猀 愀 挀漀氀氀攀挀琀椀漀渀 漀昀 瘀愀爀椀漀甀猀 洀攀猀猀愀最攀猀 栀愀瘀椀渀最 愀 挀漀洀洀漀渀 琀栀攀洀攀 琀栀愀琀 䤀  栀愀瘀攀 挀漀氀氀攀挀琀攀搀 昀爀漀洀 洀礀 爀攀愀搀椀渀最 漀昀 琀栀攀 瘀愀爀椀漀甀猀 挀漀洀瀀甀琀攀爀 渀攀琀眀漀爀欀猀⸀ 匀漀洀攀 洀攀猀猀愀最攀猀 搀愀琀攀 戀愀挀欀 琀漀 ㄀㤀㠀㤀Ⰰ 猀漀洀攀 洀愀礀 戀攀 愀猀 爀攀挀攀渀琀 愀猀 礀攀猀琀攀爀搀愀礀⸀ഊ
਀吀栀椀猀 昀椀氀攀 椀猀 瀀愀爀琀 漀昀 愀 挀漀氀氀攀挀琀椀漀渀 漀昀 昀椀氀攀猀 挀愀氀氀攀搀 匀琀攀昀愀渀✀猀 䘀氀漀爀椀氀攀最椀甀洀⸀ 吀栀攀猀攀 昀椀氀攀猀 愀爀攀 愀瘀愀椀氀愀戀氀攀 漀渀 琀栀攀 䤀渀琀攀爀渀攀琀 愀琀㨀 栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀眀眀眀⸀昀氀漀爀椀氀攀最椀甀洀⸀漀爀最ഊ
਀䤀  栀愀瘀攀 搀漀渀攀  愀 氀椀洀椀琀攀搀 愀洀漀甀渀琀  漀昀  攀搀椀琀椀渀最⸀ 䴀攀猀猀愀最攀猀 栀愀瘀椀渀最 琀漀 搀漀  眀椀琀栀 猀攀瀀愀爀愀琀攀 琀漀瀀椀挀猀  眀攀爀攀 猀漀洀攀琀椀洀攀猀 猀瀀氀椀琀 椀渀琀漀 搀椀昀昀攀爀攀渀琀 昀椀氀攀猀 愀渀搀 猀漀洀攀琀椀洀攀猀 攀砀琀爀愀渀攀漀甀猀 椀渀昀漀爀洀愀琀椀漀渀 眀愀猀 爀攀洀漀瘀攀搀⸀ 䘀漀爀 椀渀猀琀愀渀挀攀Ⰰ 琀栀攀  洀攀猀猀愀最攀 䤀䐀猀  眀攀爀攀 爀攀洀漀瘀攀搀 琀漀 猀愀瘀攀 猀瀀愀挀攀 愀渀搀 爀攀洀漀瘀攀 挀氀甀琀琀攀爀⸀ഊ
਀吀栀攀 挀漀洀洀攀渀琀猀 洀愀搀攀 椀渀 琀栀攀猀攀 洀攀猀猀愀最攀猀 愀爀攀 渀漀琀 渀攀挀攀猀猀愀爀椀氀礀 洀礀 瘀椀攀眀瀀漀椀渀琀猀⸀ 䤀 洀愀欀攀  渀漀 挀氀愀椀洀猀  愀猀  琀漀 琀栀攀 愀挀挀甀爀愀挀礀  漀昀  琀栀攀 椀渀昀漀爀洀愀琀椀漀渀  最椀瘀攀渀  戀礀 琀栀攀 椀渀搀椀瘀椀搀甀愀氀 愀甀琀栀漀爀猀⸀ഊ
਀倀氀攀愀猀攀  爀攀猀瀀攀挀琀 琀栀攀 琀椀洀攀  愀渀搀  攀昀昀漀爀琀猀 漀昀  琀栀漀猀攀 眀栀漀 栀愀瘀攀 眀爀椀琀琀攀渀  琀栀攀猀攀 洀攀猀猀愀最攀猀⸀ 吀栀攀  挀漀瀀礀爀椀最栀琀 猀琀愀琀甀猀  漀昀 琀栀攀猀攀 洀攀猀猀愀最攀猀  椀猀  甀渀挀氀攀愀爀  愀琀 琀栀椀猀 琀椀洀攀⸀ 䤀昀  椀渀昀漀爀洀愀琀椀漀渀  椀猀  瀀甀戀氀椀猀栀攀搀  昀爀漀洀  琀栀攀猀攀  洀攀猀猀愀最攀猀Ⰰ 瀀氀攀愀猀攀 最椀瘀攀 挀爀攀搀椀琀 琀漀 琀栀攀 漀爀椀最椀渀愀琀漀爀⠀猀⤀⸀ഊ
਀吀栀愀渀欀 礀漀甀Ⰰഊ    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
਀                                          匀琀攀昀愀渀 愀琀 昀氀漀爀椀氀攀最椀甀洀⸀漀爀最ഊ************************************************************************
਀ഊFrom: djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu (Dorothy J Heydt)
਀一攀眀猀最爀漀甀瀀猀㨀 爀攀挀⸀漀爀最⸀猀挀愀ഊSubject: Re: Period fruits?
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 㘀 䐀攀挀 ㄀㤀㤀㌀ ㈀㄀㨀㌀　㨀㌀㜀 䜀䴀吀ഊOrganization: University of California, Berkeley
਀ഊMike Campbell <mike at aloysius.equinox.gen.nz> wrote:
਀㸀䌀愀渀 愀渀礀漀渀攀 琀攀氀氀 洀攀 眀栀愀琀 昀爀甀椀琀猀 眀攀爀攀 椀渀 ∀挀漀洀洀漀渀∀ 挀漀渀猀甀洀瀀琀椀漀渀 椀渀 圀攀猀琀攀爀渀 ഊ>Europe during our period?
਀ഊApples, quinces, pears.
਀倀氀甀洀猀 漀昀 瘀愀爀椀漀甀猀 欀椀渀搀猀⸀ഊMedlars (which are in the quince family I believe; like persimmons
਀ऀ琀栀攀礀 洀甀猀琀 戀攀 瀀爀愀挀琀椀挀愀氀氀礀 爀漀琀琀攀渀 戀攀昀漀爀攀 琀栀攀礀 愀爀攀 爀椀瀀攀⤀⸀ഊBerries: blueberries (called "bilberries" or "whortleberries"),
਀ऀ戀氀愀挀欀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 ⠀挀愀氀氀攀搀 ∀戀爀愀洀戀氀攀猀∀⤀Ⰰ 猀琀爀愀眀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀ⴀⴀ猀漀ഊ	I'm told--cranberries, but I don't know if they're the
਀ऀ猀愀洀攀 愀猀 琀栀攀 一攀眀 圀漀爀氀搀 欀椀渀搀⸀ഊGrapes (seeded varieties).
਀䤀渀 琀栀攀 猀漀甀琀栀 愀渀搀 愀爀漀甀渀搀 琀栀攀 䴀攀搀椀琀攀爀爀愀渀攀愀渀㨀 愀瀀爀椀挀漀琀猀Ⰰ 昀椀最猀Ⰰ 搀愀琀攀猀Ⰰഊ	melons, peaches.
਀ഊAnd probably more.
਀ഊBut no bananas or pineapple unless you get to Africa.
਀ഊAnd I'm sorry -- no Kiwi fruit.  ;)
਀ഊDorothea of Caer-Myrddin		Dorothy J. Heydt
਀䴀椀猀琀猀⼀䴀椀猀琀猀⼀圀攀猀琀ऀऀऀ唀䌀 䈀攀爀欀攀氀攀礀ഊArgent, a cross forme'e sable		djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu
਀ഊ
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 䐀䐀䘀㈀ 愀琀 挀漀爀渀攀氀氀⸀攀搀甀 ⠀䐀愀瘀椀搀 䘀爀椀攀搀洀愀渀⤀ഊNewsgroups: rec.org.sca
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 倀攀爀椀漀搀 昀爀甀椀琀猀㼀ഊDate: 7 Dec 1993 04:47:33 GMT
਀伀爀最愀渀椀稀愀琀椀漀渀㨀 䌀漀爀渀攀氀氀 䰀愀眀 匀挀栀漀漀氀ഊ
਀䴀椀欀攀 䌀愀洀瀀戀攀氀氀 㰀洀椀欀攀 愀琀 愀氀漀礀猀椀甀猀⸀攀焀甀椀渀漀砀⸀最攀渀⸀渀稀㸀 愀猀欀猀 愀戀漀甀琀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 昀爀甀椀琀Ⰰ 愀渀搀ഊDorothea answers:
਀ഊ> Apples, quinces, pears.
਀㸀 倀氀甀洀猀 漀昀 瘀愀爀椀漀甀猀 欀椀渀搀猀⸀ഊ> Medlars (which are in the quince family I believe; like persimmons
਀㸀 ऀ琀栀攀礀 洀甀猀琀 戀攀 瀀爀愀挀琀椀挀愀氀氀礀 爀漀琀琀攀渀 戀攀昀漀爀攀 琀栀攀礀 愀爀攀 爀椀瀀攀⤀⸀ഊ> Berries: blueberries (called "bilberries" or "whortleberries"),
਀䤀 戀攀氀椀攀瘀攀 琀栀攀 漀氀搀 眀漀爀氀搀 戀椀氀戀攀爀爀礀 椀猀 愀 洀攀洀戀攀爀 漀昀 琀栀攀 猀愀洀攀 最攀渀甀猀 愀猀 琀栀攀 渀攀眀ഊworld blueberry, but smaller.
਀㸀 ऀ戀氀愀挀欀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 ⠀挀愀氀氀攀搀 ∀戀爀愀洀戀氀攀猀∀⤀Ⰰ 猀琀爀愀眀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀ⴀⴀ猀漀ഊ> 	I'm told--cranberries, but I don't know if they're the
਀㸀 ऀ猀愀洀攀 愀猀 琀栀攀 一攀眀 圀漀爀氀搀 欀椀渀搀⸀ഊ
਀吀栀攀 挀甀爀爀攀渀琀 挀漀洀洀攀爀挀椀愀氀 挀爀愀渀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 愀爀攀 一攀眀 圀漀爀氀搀 瘀愀爀椀攀琀椀攀猀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 戀漀琀栀 伀氀搀ഊWorld and New World varieties exist.
਀ഊ> Grapes (seeded varieties).
਀㸀 䤀渀 琀栀攀 猀漀甀琀栀 愀渀搀 愀爀漀甀渀搀 琀栀攀 䴀攀搀椀琀攀爀爀愀渀攀愀渀㨀 愀瀀爀椀挀漀琀猀Ⰰ 昀椀最猀Ⰰ 搀愀琀攀猀Ⰰഊ> 	melons, peaches.
਀ഊNot only are apples period, some period varieties are still grown. In
਀瀀愀爀琀椀挀甀氀愀爀Ⰰ 刀愀洀攀愀甀 搀✀攀琀攀Ⰰ 愀欀愀 匀甀洀洀攀爀 刀愀洀戀漀Ⰰ 椀猀 漀昀琀攀渀 愀瘀愀椀氀愀戀氀攀 椀渀 琀栀攀ഊPennsic area about the time of Pennsic. The following list of period or
਀渀攀愀爀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 昀爀甀椀琀 瘀愀爀椀攀琀椀攀猀 椀猀 昀爀漀洀 愀渀 愀爀琀椀挀氀攀 椀渀 开吀栀攀 䴀椀猀挀攀氀氀愀渀礀开 ⠀愀氀猀漀ഊT.I.).
਀ഊPre 1650 Fruits
਀ഊ             Apples		                
਀䌀愀氀瘀椀氀氀攀 䈀氀愀渀挀 䐀✀䠀椀瘀攀爀 ⠀㄀㘀㈀㜀⤀ऀ          ഊCourt Pendu Plat (16th century-possibly Roman)
਀䐀攀瘀漀渀猀栀椀爀攀 儀甀愀爀攀渀搀漀渀 ⠀㄀㘀㤀　⤀ऀഊDrap d'Or (=Coe's Golden Drop?)	
਀䰀愀搀礀 䄀瀀瀀氀攀 ⠀㄀㘀㈀㠀⤀ഊOld Nonpareil	
਀倀漀洀洀攀 刀漀礀愀氀攀ऀഊReinette Franche	
਀刀漀砀戀甀爀礀 刀甀猀猀攀琀琀 ⠀䔀愀爀氀礀 ㄀㜀琀栀 挀攀渀琀甀爀礀⤀ऀഊScarlet Crofton	  
਀匀漀瀀猀 漀昀 圀椀渀攀ऀ   ഊSummer Rambo (16th century)
਀圀椀渀琀攀爀 倀攀愀爀洀愀椀渀ऀഊFenouilette Gris	
਀䜀漀氀搀攀渀 刀攀椀渀攀琀琀攀ऀഊ
਀         倀攀愀挀栀ഊGrosse Mignonne (1667)
਀ഊ       Nectarine
਀䔀愀爀氀礀 嘀椀漀氀攀琀 ⠀㄀㘀㔀㤀⤀ഊ
਀        倀攀愀爀猀ഊBuerre Gris (1608)
਀刀漀甀猀猀攀氀攀琀 搀攀 刀攀椀洀猀 ⠀㄀㘀㠀㠀⤀ഊBartlett (Williams Bon Chretien)  "of ancient origin"-may or may not be
਀瀀爀攀ⴀ㄀㘀　　⸀ഊ
਀       倀氀甀洀猀ഊGreen Gage (Reine Claude)
਀倀爀甀渀攀 搀✀䄀最攀渀ഊ
਀䐀愀琀攀猀 爀攀瀀爀攀猀攀渀琀 琀栀攀 攀愀爀氀椀攀猀琀 搀愀琀攀 愀琀 眀栀椀挀栀 琀栀攀爀攀 椀猀 攀瘀椀搀攀渀挀攀 琀栀攀 瘀愀爀椀攀琀礀ഊexisted. For sources see the article.
਀ⴀⴀ ഊDavid/Cariadoc
਀䐀䐀䘀㈀ 愀琀 䌀漀爀渀攀氀氀⸀䔀搀甀ഊ
਀ഊFrom: Uduido at aol.com
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 吀甀攀Ⰰ ㈀㤀 䄀瀀爀 ㄀㤀㤀㜀 ㈀㈀㨀㄀㌀㨀㌀㠀 ⴀ　㐀　　 ⠀䔀䐀吀⤀ഊSubject: SC - Vegetarian dishes
਀ഊVegetarian Recipe 1
਀䘀爀漀洀 ∀䄀 吀爀攀眀攀 䈀漀欀攀 漀昀 䌀漀欀攀爀礀Ⰰ 嘀漀氀⸀㄀Ⰰ 嘀攀最攀爀琀愀爀椀愀渀 刀攀挀椀瀀琀猀∀Ⰰ 瀀最⸀ ㄀ 戀礀 䰀漀爀搀 刀愀猀ഊal Zib
਀ഊFRESH DATES NOT IN SEASON
਀ഊ1 Lb Dates, dried
਀㄀ 䰀最 圀愀琀攀爀洀攀氀漀渀ഊ
਀䌀甀琀 愀 栀漀氀攀 椀渀 琀栀攀 琀漀瀀 漀昀 琀栀攀 洀攀氀漀渀 氀愀爀最攀 攀渀漀甀最栀 昀漀爀 礀漀甀爀 栀愀渀搀 琀漀 昀椀琀 琀栀爀漀甀最栀⸀ഊSave the cut out piece. Leaving all the juices inside, squeeze and remove the
਀瀀甀氀瀀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀 眀愀琀攀爀洀攀氀漀渀⸀ 倀甀琀 琀栀攀 搀愀琀攀猀 椀渀猀椀搀攀 琀栀攀 眀愀琀攀爀洀攀氀漀渀⸀ 刀攀瀀氀愀挀攀 琀栀攀ഊcut out piece. Leave in a cool place for 24 hours. Take out the dates and
਀搀爀愀椀渀⸀ 吀栀攀礀 眀椀氀氀 戀攀 愀猀 昀爀攀猀栀 愀猀 椀昀 樀甀猀琀 瀀椀挀欀攀搀⸀ ⠀䔀搀椀琀漀爀✀猀 渀漀琀攀 ⠀䰀漀爀搀 刀愀猀⤀㸀ഊNot quite! But still rather tasty. Dried apricots, figs, prunes and/or
਀爀愀椀猀漀渀猀 愀氀猀漀 眀漀爀欀 眀攀氀氀 眀椀琀栀 琀栀椀猀 琀攀挀栀渀椀焀甀攀 愀氀琀栀漀甀最栀 琀栀攀 漀爀椀最椀渀愀氀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀ഊspecifies dates.)
਀ഊFrom "The Baghdad Cookery Book, 1226 c.e., compiled by Duke Coriadoc of the
਀䈀漀眀㬀 爀攀搀愀挀琀攀搀 愀渀搀 愀搀愀瀀琀攀搀 琀漀 琀栀攀 䌀甀爀爀攀渀琀 䴀椀搀搀氀攀 䄀最攀猀 戀礀 䰀漀爀搀 刀愀猀 愀氀 娀椀戀⸀ഊ
਀䰀漀爀搀 刀愀猀ഊ
਀ഊFrom: "Maureen S. O'Brien" <mobrien at dnaco.net>
਀一攀眀猀最爀漀甀瀀猀㨀 爀攀挀⸀漀爀最⸀猀挀愀ഊSubject: Re: Haggis (was: tartan something...
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 圀攀搀Ⰰ ㌀　 䄀瀀爀 ㄀㤀㤀㜀 ㈀㌀㨀　㘀㨀㐀㠀 ⴀ　㜀　　ഊ
਀挀琀愀猀开搀愀渀 愀琀 䄀䌀䴀⸀伀刀䜀 眀爀漀琀攀㨀ഊ>You would have to be a very rich lord to afford vegetables let alone 
਀㸀昀爀甀椀琀 椀渀 眀椀渀琀攀爀⸀ഊ
਀嘀攀爀礀 琀爀甀攀⸀  䤀渀 昀愀挀琀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 眀漀爀搀 昀漀爀 昀爀甀椀琀猀 愀渀搀 瘀攀最攀琀愀戀氀攀猀 椀渀 䤀爀椀猀栀 ഊtranslates as "summer food".  Granted, root vegetables store well
਀愀渀搀 猀漀 搀漀 愀瀀瀀氀攀猀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 栀漀眀 氀漀渀最 眀漀甀氀搀 琀栀攀礀 栀漀氀搀 漀甀琀㼀  吀栀攀 䤀爀椀猀栀 搀椀攀琀ഊin the Middle Ages was mainly meat, dairy and bread, with a few eggs and
਀猀甀挀栀 琀栀爀漀眀渀 椀渀㬀 琀栀攀 匀挀漀琀琀椀猀栀 搀椀攀琀 眀漀甀氀搀 渀漀 搀漀甀戀琀 戀攀 猀椀洀椀氀愀爀Ⰰ 攀瘀攀渀 昀漀爀ഊthe rich.
਀ഊMaureen, who likes all organ meat except liver from non-fowls, and was
਀爀愀椀猀攀搀 琀漀 琀爀礀 眀攀椀爀搀 琀栀椀渀最猀 愀渀搀 挀氀攀愀渀 栀攀爀 瀀氀愀琀攀⸀ഊ
਀ഊFrom: Philip E Cutone <flip+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 吀甀攀Ⰰ ㈀　 䴀愀礀 ㄀㤀㤀㜀 ㄀㈀㨀㈀㜀㨀㐀㌀ ⴀ　㐀　　 ⠀䔀䐀吀⤀ഊSubject: Re: SC - An Introduction and a question.
਀ഊThe domestroi mentions various ways fruits are preserved/cooked.
਀ഊIt mentions that Jellies may be given to the servents on sundays. (51)
਀ഊpreserve apples, pears, cherries, and berries in brine (63)
਀ഊ(66)it talks also of watermelons, melons, Kuzmin apples (seeming to be the
਀漀爀椀最椀渀 漀昀 挀愀渀搀椀攀搀 愀瀀瀀氀攀猀Ⰰ 瀀漀甀爀 栀漀渀攀礀  猀礀爀甀瀀 漀瘀攀爀 眀栀漀氀攀 愀瀀瀀氀攀猀⤀Ⰰഊquinces and appls (fermented in a bucket with honey syrup), Mozhaisk
਀挀爀攀愀洀 ⠀渀漀琀 洀愀猀栀攀搀⸀ 猀漀愀欀 愀瀀瀀氀攀猀 愀渀搀 瀀攀愀爀猀 椀渀 愀 戀氀攀渀搀攀搀 猀礀爀甀瀀Ⰰ 眀椀琀栀漀甀琀ഊwater. (not sure what they mean)) 
਀ഊberry candy (66)(bilberries, rasberries, currants, strawberries,
਀挀爀愀渀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀Ⰰ ∀漀爀 愀渀礀 漀琀栀攀爀 欀椀渀搀 漀昀 戀攀爀爀礀∀⸀ 栀攀爀攀 椀猀 愀 焀甀椀挀欀 爀甀渀搀漀眀渀 漀昀ഊthe instructions:
਀ऀ䈀漀椀氀 愀渀搀 猀琀爀愀椀渀 琀栀爀漀甀最栀 愀 昀椀渀攀 猀椀攀瘀攀 愀搀搀 栀漀渀攀礀 愀渀搀 琀栀攀渀 猀琀攀愀洀ഊ	the mixture till VERY thick, stiring so as not to burn. pour
਀ऀ漀渀琀漀 愀 戀漀愀爀搀⸀ 猀洀攀愀爀 琀栀攀 戀漀愀爀搀 爀攀瀀攀愀琀攀搀氀礀 眀椀琀栀 栀漀渀攀礀⸀ 愀猀ഊ	mixture sets, add a second and third layer and twirl it around
਀ऀ愀 琀甀戀攀⸀ 搀爀礀 椀琀 漀瀀瀀漀猀椀琀攀 琀栀攀 猀琀漀瘀攀⸀ഊmy quick interpretation:
਀ऀ挀漀漀欀 琀栀攀 戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 ⠀甀猀攀 洀椀渀椀洀愀氀 眀愀琀攀爀Ⰰ 漀爀 爀攀猀攀爀瘀攀 琀栀攀 樀甀椀挀攀 昀漀爀ഊ	mead/drinking later) Puree them and strain to remove
਀ऀ猀攀攀搀猀⸀⠀漀瀀琀⤀ 愀搀搀 栀漀渀攀礀 琀漀 礀漀甀爀 琀愀猀琀攀⸀  猀椀洀洀攀爀 漀渀 瘀攀爀礀 氀漀眀 栀攀愀琀ഊ	till thick. then pour onto a honeyed marble pastry board. 
਀ऀ氀攀琀 搀爀礀 愀 戀椀琀 ⠀瀀攀爀栀愀瀀猀 椀渀 漀瘀攀渀Ⰰ 渀漀琀 猀甀爀攀 椀昀 琀栀椀猀 椀猀 最漀漀搀 昀漀爀ഊ	marble) then add a second and third layer, letting set up some
਀ऀ戀攀琀眀攀攀渀 氀愀礀攀爀猀⸀  搀爀礀 椀渀 漀瘀攀渀 漀渀 氀漀眀攀猀琀 猀攀琀琀椀渀最⸀ 挀甀琀 愀猀 椀猀 漀爀ഊ	roll it and then cut it. die of sugar shock.
਀ഊapple candy(66): about the same as berry candy, but it appears to be left
਀ऀ∀猀漀昀琀攀爀∀ ⠀搀漀渀✀琀 搀爀礀 漀甀琀 椀渀 漀瘀攀渀⤀ഊ
਀琀栀攀 瀀愀爀攀渀琀栀攀猀椀稀攀搀 渀甀洀戀攀爀猀 愀爀攀 挀栀愀瀀琀攀爀猀Ⰰ 昀漀爀 琀栀攀 椀渀琀攀爀攀猀琀攀搀⸀ഊ
਀瀀氀攀愀猀攀 渀漀琀攀 琀栀椀猀 眀愀猀 昀爀漀洀 愀 瘀攀爀礀 焀甀椀挀欀 戀爀漀眀猀攀 琀栀爀漀甀最栀⸀⸀⸀⸀ 愀渀搀 琀礀瀀攀搀ഊrather quickly as well... 
਀ഊBTW it also mentions that pears and apples may be preserved in syrup
਀漀爀 欀瘀愀猀猀⸀ ⠀㐀㔀⤀ ഊ
਀䤀渀 匀攀爀瘀椀挀攀 琀漀 渀攀瘀攀爀 氀攀琀琀椀渀最 琀栀攀 欀瘀愀猀猀 琀栀爀攀愀搀 搀椀攀 㨀⤀ഊFilip of the Marche
਀ഊ
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 倀栀椀氀椀瀀 ☀ 匀甀猀愀渀 吀爀漀礀 㰀琀爀漀礀 愀琀 愀猀愀渀⸀挀漀洀㸀ഊDate: Mon, 26 May 1997 03:10:25 -0400
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 刀漀愀猀琀攀搀 愀瀀瀀氀攀猀℀ഊ
਀䨀攀猀猀椀挀愀 吀椀昀昀椀渀 眀爀漀琀攀㨀ഊ> I've just tracked down and devoured a copy of the Goodman of Paris
਀㸀 ⠀眀漀渀搀攀爀昀甀氀 猀琀甀昀昀⤀⸀  䠀攀 爀攀昀攀爀猀 琀漀 ∀爀漀愀猀琀攀搀 愀瀀瀀氀攀猀∀ 椀渀 洀愀渀礀 漀昀 栀椀猀ഊ> feast menus.  I'm assuming that this is a standard sort of baked
਀㸀 愀瀀瀀氀攀 ⴀ 眀漀甀氀搀 愀渀礀漀渀攀 欀渀漀眀 瀀爀攀挀椀猀攀氀礀 栀漀眀 琀栀攀礀 眀攀爀攀 挀漀漀欀攀搀 椀渀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀㼀ഊ> i.e. cored and stuffed with nuts?  raisins?  sugar?  in a syrup?  I
਀㸀 挀愀渀 漀戀瘀椀漀甀猀氀礀 瀀氀愀礀 愀爀漀甀渀搀 眀椀琀栀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 椀渀最爀攀搀椀攀渀琀猀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 䤀✀搀 爀攀愀氀氀礀ഊ> like to look at a recipe.
਀ഊI'd have to go back and look at Le Menagier (I hadn't remembered the
਀爀攀挀甀爀爀椀渀最 琀栀攀洀攀 漀昀 爀漀愀猀琀攀搀 愀瀀瀀氀攀猀⤀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 瘀愀爀椀漀甀猀 氀愀琀攀 愀渀搀 樀甀猀琀ⴀ瀀漀猀琀ഊperiod beverage recipes call for the "pap of roasted apples" to be
਀椀渀挀氀甀搀攀搀⸀ 吀栀攀 椀洀瀀爀攀猀猀椀漀渀 琀栀漀猀攀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀猀 最椀瘀攀 椀猀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀礀 愀爀攀 爀漀愀猀琀攀搀 椀渀ഊthe ashes of the hearth like eggs, and that the method works best with
਀猀琀漀爀攀搀 愀瀀瀀氀攀猀 琀栀愀琀 栀愀瘀攀 戀攀挀漀洀攀 樀甀猀琀 愀 戀椀琀 猀琀愀爀挀栀礀㨀 琀栀攀礀 瀀漀瀀 漀瀀攀渀 眀栀攀渀ഊthey are done.
਀ഊI'm working from memory here, so please take this for what it's worth...
਀ഊAdamantius
਀ഊ
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 稀愀爀氀漀爀 愀琀 愀挀洀⸀漀爀最 ⠀䰀攀渀渀礀 娀椀洀洀攀爀洀愀渀渀⤀ഊDate: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 17:42:28 GMT
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 䴀攀搀椀琀攀爀爀愀渀攀愀渀 䘀攀愀猀琀ഊ
਀圀栀椀氀攀 渀漀琀 愀猀 ∀䴀攀搀椀琀攀爀爀愀渀攀愀渀∀ 椀渀 猀琀礀氀攀 愀猀 䜀爀攀攀挀攀 漀爀 吀甀爀欀攀礀Ⰰ 琀栀攀爀攀 愀爀攀ഊan exceptional number of salads and fruit/veggie dishes listing in
਀∀吀栀攀 䘀爀甀椀琀Ⰰ 䠀攀爀戀猀 ☀ 嘀攀最攀琀愀戀氀攀猀 漀昀 䤀琀愀氀礀⸀ 䄀渀 漀昀昀攀爀椀渀最 琀漀 䰀甀挀礀Ⰰ 䌀漀甀渀琀攀猀猀ഊof Bedford", by Giacomo Castelvetro. The original is in Italian and
਀眀爀椀琀琀攀渀 椀渀 ㄀㘀㄀㐀 ⠀樀甀猀琀 愀 栀愀椀爀 瀀漀猀琀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀⤀⸀ 䤀 琀攀渀搀 琀漀 栀愀瘀攀 琀栀攀 最爀攀愀琀攀猀琀ഊinterest in Late Renaissance Italian cuisine, so this and Platina are
਀洀礀 挀甀爀爀攀渀琀 戀椀戀氀攀猀⸀ 㬀ⴀ⤀ 吀栀攀 挀漀瀀礀 䤀 栀愀瘀攀 椀猀 瀀甀琀 漀甀琀 戀礀 嘀椀欀椀渀最 倀爀攀猀猀Ⰰഊwith Introduction and Translation by Gillian Riley (c) 1989 and
਀䘀漀爀攀眀漀爀搀 戀礀 䨀愀渀攀 䜀爀椀最猀漀渀⸀ 䤀匀䈀一 　ⴀ㘀㜀　ⴀ㠀㈀㜀㈀㐀堀⸀ 䤀 愀洀 渀漀琀 猀甀爀攀 椀昀 琀栀椀猀ഊbook is even in print any longer, but Amazon.Com was able to come up
਀眀椀琀栀 愀 挀漀瀀礀 昀漀爀 洀攀⸀ഊ
਀吀栀攀 氀椀猀琀椀渀最猀 愀爀攀ഊby season and then, generally, by fruit/herb/veggie. Oh, and one of my
਀昀愀瘀漀爀椀琀攀猀 椀猀 琀栀攀 氀椀猀琀椀渀最 甀渀搀攀爀 匀眀攀攀琀 䘀攀渀渀攀氀 ⠀椀琀 栀愀猀 愀 猀攀攀搀 琀栀愀琀 琀愀猀琀攀猀ഊlike licorice): "Fennel Seeds are gathered in the autumn. We flavour
਀瘀愀爀椀漀甀猀 搀椀猀栀攀猀 眀椀琀栀 琀栀攀洀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 攀愀琀 琀栀攀洀 漀渀 琀栀攀椀爀 漀眀渀 愀昀琀攀爀 洀攀愀氀猀⸀∀ 匀漀ഊnow I always have a little dish with Fennel Seeds to "sweeten the
਀戀爀攀愀琀栀∀ 愀昀琀攀爀 愀 昀攀愀猀琀⸀ 䤀琀 樀甀猀琀 猀攀攀洀猀 氀椀欀攀 猀甀挀栀 愀 渀椀挀攀 氀椀琀琀氀攀 琀漀甀挀栀⸀ഊ
਀䠀漀渀漀猀 匀攀爀瘀椀漀ⰀഊLionardo Acquistapace, Barony of Bjornsborg, Ansteorra
਀⠀洀欀愀 䰀攀渀渀礀 娀椀洀洀攀爀洀愀渀渀Ⰰ 匀愀渀 䄀渀琀漀渀椀漀Ⰰ 吀堀⤀ഊzarlor at acm.org
਀ഊ
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 䘀爀椀Ⰰ ㄀㄀ 䨀甀氀 ㄀㤀㤀㜀 　㤀㨀㐀㌀㨀㈀㤀 ⴀ　㐀　　ഊFrom: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 䘀爀甀椀琀 愀渀搀 圀椀渀攀 搀椀猀栀攀猀 ⴀ 眀愀猀 爀攀㨀 刀䔀䌀䤀倀䔀 䌀䠀䄀䰀䰀䔀一䜀䔀 䤀䤀ഊ
਀䈀愀爀漀渀 吀椀戀漀爀 眀爀漀琀攀㨀ഊ
਀㸀 䴀攀洀漀爀礀 琀椀挀欀氀攀猀 愀琀 洀攀 愀戀漀甀琀 愀 猀琀攀眀攀搀 瀀爀甀渀攀 愀渀搀 爀攀搀 眀椀渀攀 搀攀猀猀攀爀琀 眀椀琀栀 挀愀爀眀愀礀ഊ> seeds, that is period and YUMMY.... I cannot remember the source offhand.
਀㸀 ⠀倀攀爀栀愀瀀猀 琀栀攀 攀渀挀礀氀漀瀀攀搀椀愀 琀栀愀琀 椀猀 䄀搀愀洀愀渀琀椀甀猀 眀椀氀氀⸀⸀⸀  䤀 最漀琀琀愀 最攀琀 洀礀 猀漀甀爀挀攀猀ഊ> OUT of the attic and back IN the kitchen!)
਀㸀 ഊ> What other "wine and fruit" recipes are there?  This is a wonderful
਀㸀 挀漀洀戀椀渀愀琀椀漀渀⸀ഊ
਀䤀 挀愀渀✀琀 爀攀挀愀氀氀 琀栀攀 猀瀀攀挀椀昀椀挀 爀攀昀攀爀攀渀挀攀 琀漀 琀栀攀 搀椀猀栀 礀漀甀 搀攀猀挀爀椀戀攀 愀戀漀瘀攀Ⰰഊbut I'd be willing to bet it's caraway confits as a garnish. Dishes of
਀昀椀最猀 猀琀攀眀攀搀 椀渀 眀椀渀攀 䤀 欀渀漀眀 愀戀漀甀琀⸀ 䄀氀猀漀 愀 瀀漀琀琀愀最攀 漀昀 䈀甀氀氀愀挀攀 瀀氀甀洀猀 愀渀搀ഊwine, which I can't seem to find anywhere but know exists in some source
਀漀爀 漀琀栀攀爀⸀ 䄀猀 甀猀甀愀氀Ⰰ 䤀 眀愀猀 樀甀猀琀 氀漀漀欀椀渀最 愀琀 椀琀 琀栀攀 漀琀栀攀爀 搀愀礀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 渀漀眀 琀栀愀琀ഊI actually need it, it's gone...
਀ഊAdamantius
਀ഊ
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 匀甀渀Ⰰ 㔀 伀挀琀 ㄀㤀㤀㜀 　㠀㨀　㐀㨀㐀㔀 ⴀ　㐀　　 ⠀䔀䐀吀⤀ഊFrom: Stephen Bloch <sbloch at adl15.adelphi.edu>
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 刀攀㨀 䄀 挀漀甀瀀氀攀 焀甀攀猀琀椀漀渀猀 ⸀ ⸀ ⸀⸀ഊ
਀㸀 ㌀⤀ 圀栀愀琀 愀戀漀甀琀 猀甀戀猀椀琀甀琀椀漀渀猀㼀   䤀 愀洀 椀渀 琀栀攀 洀椀搀猀琀 漀昀 最愀琀栀攀爀椀渀最 爀攀挀椀瀀攀猀 昀漀爀 愀ഊ> killer menu for Crown Tourney this next weekend,  and I was thinking about
਀㸀 琀栀攀 ∀匀琀爀愀眀戀攀爀礀攀∀ 戀甀琀 甀猀椀渀最 挀栀攀爀爀椀攀猀 愀渀搀 䬀椀爀猀挀栀眀愀猀猀攀爀 椀渀猀琀攀愀搀 ⠀✀挀漀稀 䤀 栀愀瘀攀ഊ> cherries) 
਀ഊI can't speak for the Kirschwasser, but there are surviving recipes for
਀挀栀攀爀爀椀攀猀⸀  䤀渀 昀愀挀琀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 ∀匀琀爀愀眀戀攀爀礀攀∀ 爀攀挀椀瀀攀 礀漀甀✀爀攀 琀栀椀渀欀椀渀最 漀昀Ⰰഊpresumably the one from Harleian ms. 279, is followed IMMEDIATELY in the
਀洀愀渀甀猀挀爀椀瀀琀 戀礀 漀渀攀 昀漀爀 挀栀攀爀爀椀攀猀⸀  匀漀 爀愀琀栀攀爀 琀栀愀渀 愀搀愀瀀琀椀渀最 ∀匀琀爀愀眀戀攀爀礀攀∀ 琀漀ഊcherries myself, I would use the 15th-century recipe whose author thought
਀椀琀 眀愀猀 猀椀洀椀氀愀爀 攀渀漀甀最栀 琀漀 瀀甀琀 琀栀攀洀 漀渀 琀栀攀 猀愀洀攀 瀀愀最攀⸀ഊ
਀匀琀爀愀眀戀攀爀礀攀㨀 吀愀欀攀 匀琀爀愀眀戀攀爀礀猀Ⰰ ☀ 眀愀礀猀猀栀攀 栀攀洀 椀渀 琀礀洀攀 漀昀 ㌀攀爀攀 椀渀 最漀搀攀 爀攀搀ഊwyne; [th]an strayne [th]orwe a clo[th]e, & do hem in a potte with gode
਀䄀氀洀愀甀渀搀攀 洀礀氀欀攀Ⰰ 愀ⴀ氀愀礀 椀琀 眀椀琀栀 䄀洀礀渀搀漀甀渀 漀嬀琀栀崀攀爀 眀椀琀栀 嬀琀栀崀攀 昀氀漀眀爀攀 漀昀 刀礀猀Ⰰഊ& make it chargeaunt and lat it boyle, and do [th]er-in Roysonys of
਀挀漀爀愀甀渀挀攀Ⰰ 匀愀昀爀漀甀渀Ⰰ 倀攀瀀椀爀Ⰰ 匀甀最爀攀 最爀攀琀攀 瀀氀攀渀琀攀Ⰰ 瀀漀甀搀攀爀 䜀礀渀最攀爀攀Ⰰ 䌀愀渀攀氀ⰀഊGalyngale; poynte it with Vynegre, & a lytil whyte grece put [th]er-to;
਀挀漀氀漀甀爀攀 椀琀 眀椀琀栀 䄀氀欀攀渀愀搀攀Ⰰ ☀ 搀爀漀瀀瀀攀 椀琀 愀ⴀ戀漀眀琀攀Ⰰ 瀀氀愀渀琀攀 椀琀 眀椀琀栀 嬀琀栀崀攀ഊgraynys of Pome-garnad, & [th]an serue it forth.
਀ഊChyryoun: Take Chyryis, & pike out [th]e stonys, waysshe hem clene in
਀眀礀渀攀Ⰰ 嬀琀栀崀愀渀 眀爀礀渀最 栀攀洀 嬀琀栀崀漀爀眀 愀 挀氀漀嬀琀栀崀攀Ⰰ ☀ 搀漀 椀琀 漀渀 愀 瀀漀琀琀攀Ⰰ ☀ 搀漀ഊ[th]er-to whyte grece a quantyte, & a partye of Floure of Rys, & make it
਀挀栀愀爀最攀愀甀渀琀㬀 搀漀 嬀琀栀崀攀爀ⴀ琀漀 栀眀礀琀攀 䠀漀渀礀 漀爀 匀甀最爀攀Ⰰ 瀀漀礀渀琀攀 椀琀 眀椀琀栀 嘀攀渀攀最爀攀㬀ഊA-force it with stronge pouder of Canelle & of Galyngale, & a-lye it
਀眀椀琀栀 愀 最爀攀琀攀 瀀漀爀挀礀漀甀渀 漀昀 ㌀漀氀欀礀猀 漀昀 䔀礀爀漀甀渀㬀 挀漀氀漀甀爀攀 椀琀 眀椀琀栀 匀愀昀爀漀甀渀 漀爀ഊSaunderys; & whan [th]ou seruyste in, plante it with Chyrioun, & serue
਀昀嬀漀爀琀栀崀⸀ഊ
਀一漀琀椀挀攀 琀栀攀 昀漀氀氀漀眀椀渀最 搀椀昀昀攀爀攀渀挀攀猀㨀ഊ1) the cherry recipe doesn't call for almond milk, currants, pepper, or
਀最椀渀最攀爀㬀 洀愀礀戀攀 琀栀攀 愀甀琀栀漀爀 愀渀搀⼀漀爀 栀椀猀 瀀愀琀爀漀渀 昀攀氀琀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀猀攀 昀氀愀瘀漀爀猀 眀攀渀琀ഊwell with strawberries but not with cherries.
਀㈀⤀ 琀栀攀 挀栀攀爀爀礀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀Ⰰ 愀昀琀攀爀 戀攀椀渀最 琀栀椀挀欀攀渀攀搀 眀椀琀栀 爀椀挀攀 昀氀漀甀爀Ⰰ 椀猀 昀甀爀琀栀攀爀ഊthickened with "a grete porcyoun" of eggyolks.  I don't know why the
਀愀甀琀栀漀爀 挀栀漀猀攀 琀漀 搀漀 琀栀椀猀 眀椀琀栀 挀栀攀爀爀椀攀猀 愀渀搀 渀漀琀 眀椀琀栀 猀琀爀愀眀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀Ⰰ 戀甀琀ഊlacking evidence to the contrary, I'd follow his lead.
਀㌀⤀ 琀栀攀 猀琀爀愀眀戀攀爀爀礀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀 椀猀 挀漀氀漀爀攀搀 瀀甀爀瀀氀攀 眀椀琀栀 愀氀欀攀渀愀搀攀Ⰰ 眀栀椀氀攀 琀栀攀ഊcherry recipe is colored yellow with saffron or red with sandalwood.
਀㐀⤀ 琀栀攀 猀琀爀愀眀戀攀爀爀礀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀 椀猀 最愀爀渀椀猀栀攀搀 眀椀琀栀 瀀漀洀攀最爀愀渀愀琀攀 猀攀攀搀猀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 挀栀攀爀爀礀ഊrecipe with whole cherries.
਀ഊI would start by following the cherry recipe as closely as possible,
਀甀猀椀渀最 愀 欀渀漀眀渀ⴀ琀愀猀琀礀 爀攀搀愀挀琀椀漀渀 漀昀 ∀匀琀爀愀眀戀攀爀礀攀∀ 琀漀 最攀琀 愀 昀椀爀猀琀ഊapproximation of the quantities.  If I had time (which you don't between
਀渀漀眀 愀渀搀 渀攀砀琀 眀攀攀欀攀渀搀⤀Ⰰ 䤀 眀漀甀氀搀 攀砀瀀攀爀椀洀攀渀琀 眀椀琀栀 攀愀挀栀 漀昀 琀栀攀 愀戀漀瘀攀ഊdifferences and try to figure out why they are there.
਀ഊ					mar-Joshua ibn-Eleazar ha-Shalib
਀                                                 匀琀攀瀀栀攀渀 䈀氀漀挀栀ഊ                                           sbloch at panther.adelphi.edu
਀ഊ
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 吀栀甀Ⰰ ㄀㠀 䐀攀挀 ㄀㤀㤀㜀 ㄀㌀㨀㌀㠀㨀㌀㈀ ⴀ　㠀　　ഊFrom: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 樀愀洀 ⠀眀愀猀㨀 䄀 戀椀琀 戀氀愀渀搀⸀⸀⸀⤀ഊ
਀䈀漀最搀愀渀 愀猀欀攀搀 愀戀漀甀琀 愀 琀漀瀀瀀椀渀最 昀漀爀 愀 氀愀琀攀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 愀氀洀漀渀搀 琀愀爀琀㬀 猀漀洀攀漀渀攀ഊsuggested peach jam and Charles McCathieNevile answered:
਀ഊ>Peaches are appropriate for England. But I don't know how they
਀㸀瀀爀攀瀀愀爀攀搀⼀瀀爀攀猀攀爀瘀攀搀 琀栀攀洀⸀ 䤀 眀漀甀氀搀 椀洀愀最椀渀攀 琀栀愀琀 猀漀洀攀琀栀椀渀最 氀椀欀攀 樀愀洀 眀愀猀ഊ>done. Has anybody checked the florilegium?
਀㸀䌀栀愀爀氀攀猀ഊ
਀䄀挀挀漀爀搀椀渀最 琀漀 开䘀漀漀搀 愀渀搀 䐀爀椀渀欀 椀渀 䈀爀椀琀愀椀渀开 戀礀 䌀⸀ 䄀渀渀攀 圀椀氀猀漀渀 ⠀瘀攀爀礀ഊknowlegable and reliable), marmelade in the sense of a stiff paste seems to
਀栀愀瘀攀 戀攀攀渀 椀渀瘀攀渀琀攀搀 氀愀琀攀 椀渀 漀甀爀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 愀渀搀 ∀匀漀洀攀琀椀洀攀猀 猀漀昀琀 昀爀甀椀琀猀 眀攀爀攀ഊsimply bruised and boiled quickly in sugar syrup without any sieving or
਀猀琀爀愀椀渀椀渀最Ⰰ 愀渀搀 琀栀攀 爀攀猀甀氀琀愀渀琀 猀眀攀攀琀 挀漀洀瀀爀攀猀猀攀搀 洀愀猀猀 戀攀挀愀洀攀 瘀甀氀最愀爀氀礀 欀渀漀眀渀 愀猀ഊ"jam".  The word did not reach the printed cookery books until 1718, but
਀琀栀攀爀攀愀昀琀攀爀 戀漀琀栀 琀栀攀 渀愀洀攀 愀渀搀 琀栀攀 洀攀琀栀漀搀 漀昀 瀀爀攀瀀愀爀愀琀椀漀渀 戀攀挀愀洀攀 挀漀洀洀漀渀⸀⸀⸀∀ഊ
਀匀漀 椀琀 椀猀 渀漀琀 挀氀攀愀爀 椀昀 愀渀礀漀渀攀 眀漀甀氀搀 栀愀瘀攀 戀攀攀渀 洀愀欀椀渀最 樀愀洀 戀礀 琀栀攀 攀渀搀 漀昀 漀甀爀ഊperiod (though the almond tart this discussion started with is late
਀瀀攀爀椀漀搀⤀⸀  䤀 琀栀椀渀欀 琀栀攀 爀攀愀猀漀渀 樀愀洀 最漀琀 椀渀瘀攀渀琀攀搀 猀漀 氀愀琀攀 眀愀猀 琀栀愀琀 攀愀爀氀椀攀爀ഊsugar was an expensive import, used in spice-type quantities only by
਀甀瀀瀀攀爀ⴀ挀氀愀猀猀 瀀攀漀瀀氀攀㬀 攀瘀攀渀 昀漀爀 琀栀攀洀Ⰰ 甀猀椀渀最 椀琀 椀渀 琀栀攀 洀愀猀猀 焀甀愀渀琀椀琀椀攀猀ഊnecessary for preserving fruit would not have been a practical option.  By
਀䔀氀椀稀愀戀攀琀栀愀渀 愀渀搀 匀琀甀愀爀琀 琀椀洀攀猀 愀 氀漀琀 洀漀爀攀 猀甀最愀爀 眀愀猀 戀攀椀渀最 椀洀瀀漀爀琀攀搀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 椀琀ഊwas being used a lot more and moving down the social scale.
਀ഊElizabeth/Betty Cook
਀ഊ
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 匀愀琀Ⰰ ㈀　 䐀攀挀 ㄀㤀㤀㜀 ㈀㈀㨀㄀㘀㨀㌀　 䔀匀吀ഊFrom: melc2newton at juno.com (Michael P Newton)
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 瀀攀愀挀栀攀猀ഊ
਀䄀挀挀漀爀搀椀渀最 琀漀 吀攀爀攀猀愀 䴀挀䰀攀愀渀Ⰰ 椀渀 开䴀攀搀椀攀瘀愀氀 䔀渀最氀椀猀栀 䜀愀爀搀攀渀猀开 焀甀漀琀攀猀 愀 氀椀猀琀ഊof fruit trees grown: "The Tower of London were planted by the royal
਀最爀搀攀渀攀爀 椀渀 ㄀㈀㜀㔀 眀椀琀栀㨀ഊ       '100 cherry trees, costing 1s.6d.,
਀        㔀　　 漀猀椀攀爀 眀椀氀氀漀眀猀Ⰰ 挀漀猀琀椀渀最 㐀猀⸀㘀搀⸀Ⰰഊ          4 quince trees, costing 2s.,
਀          ㈀ 瀀攀愀挀栀 琀爀攀攀猀Ⰰ 挀漀猀琀椀渀最 ㄀猀⸀Ⰰഊ            gooseberry bushes, costing 3d.,
਀          愀 焀甀愀爀琀 漀昀 氀椀氀礀 戀甀氀戀猀Ⰰ 挀漀猀琀椀渀最 ㄀猀⸀Ⰰഊ          another peach tree, costing 6d.,'
਀猀栀攀 最漀攀猀 漀渀 琀漀 洀攀渀琀椀漀渀 琀栀愀琀 ∀琀栀攀礀 眀攀爀攀 愀猀 攀砀瀀攀渀猀椀瘀攀 愀猀 焀甀椀渀挀攀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 洀甀挀栀ഊharder to cultivate successfully in England. They appear quite frequently
਀椀渀 䰀椀琀攀爀愀琀甀爀攀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀 琀栀椀爀琀攀攀渀琀栀 挀攀渀琀甀爀礀 漀渀Ⰰ 甀猀甀愀氀氀礀 挀氀愀猀猀攀搀 眀椀琀栀 琀栀攀ഊexotic fruits" Also, Godfrey's 15th C version of De Agricultura advised
਀猀瀀爀椀渀欀氀椀渀最 琀栀攀椀爀 瀀攀愀挀栀 琀爀攀攀猀 眀椀琀栀 最漀愀琀✀猀 洀椀氀欀 椀渀 漀爀搀攀爀 琀漀 最攀琀ഊpomegranates from them (Take that for what it's worth!) and that King
਀䨀漀栀渀 栀愀猀琀攀渀攀搀 栀椀猀 搀攀愀琀栀 戀礀 椀渀搀甀氀最椀渀最 椀渀 ✀愀 猀甀爀昀椀攀琀 漀昀 瀀攀愀挀栀攀猀 愀渀搀 愀氀攀✀ 䤀琀ഊseems that going by "Gardens", that they weren't everyday sort of fruit,
਀戀甀琀 爀愀琀栀攀爀 愀 爀漀礀愀氀 椀渀搀甀氀最攀渀挀攀⸀ഊ
਀䰀愀搀礀 䈀攀愀琀爀椀砀ഊ
਀ഊDate: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 14:01:12 -0600
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀䐀攀挀欀攀爀Ⰰ 吀攀爀爀礀 䐀⸀∀ 㰀吀攀爀爀礀䐀 愀琀 䠀攀愀氀琀栀⸀匀琀愀琀攀⸀伀䬀⸀唀匀㸀ഊSubject: RE: SC - Apricot recipes?(was Byzantine Cooking)
਀ഊSince I have Martha Washington's Booke of Cookery in front of me, here
਀愀爀攀 猀漀洀攀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀✀猀 昀爀漀洀 椀琀⸀ഊ
਀䈀攀愀爀ഊ
਀吀伀 䴀䄀䬀䔀 䄀倀刀䤀䌀伀䌀䬀 䌀䄀䬀䔀匀ഊ
਀吀愀欀攀 䄀瀀爀椀挀漀挀欀猀Ⰰ 瀀愀爀攀 琀栀攀洀 ☀ 挀甀琀 琀栀攀洀 椀渀 栀愀氀瘀攀猀⸀ ☀ 瀀甀琀 琀栀攀洀 椀渀琀漀 愀 瀀攀眀琀攀爀ഊflaggon, & set them in a pot of boyling water and let them boyle till
਀琀栀攀礀 愀爀攀 琀攀渀搀攀爀⸀  琀栀攀渀 瀀漀甀爀攀 愀 氀椀琀琀氀攀 漀昀 礀攀 䨀甀椀挀攀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀洀Ⰰ 琀栀攀渀 挀爀甀猀栀ഊthem thorough a clothe till you leave allmoste noething in ye cloth.
਀礀漀甀 洀甀猀琀 猀琀爀攀礀渀 琀栀攀洀 椀渀琀漀 愀 最氀愀猀猀Ⰰ 椀渀 眀栀椀挀栀 礀漀甀 洀甀猀琀 眀攀椀最栀 琀栀攀洀⸀  ☀ 琀漀 愀ഊpound of them, take a pound and a quater of double refined sugar, &
਀戀漀礀氀攀 礀攀 猀甀最愀爀 琀漀 愀 挀愀渀搀攀礀 栀攀椀最栀琀⸀  琀栀攀渀 猀琀椀爀 椀渀 礀漀甀爀 愀瀀爀椀挀漀挀欀猀Ⰰ ☀ 氀攀琀ഊit stand on ye fire till it be ready to boyle.  then put it into dishes
਀漀昀 眀栀愀琀 琀栀椀挀欀渀攀猀猀 礀漀甀 眀椀氀氀Ⰰ ☀ 眀栀攀渀 椀琀 椀猀 挀漀氀搀Ⰰ 瀀甀琀 椀琀 椀渀琀漀 愀 猀琀漀瘀攀 甀渀琀椀氀ഊit is hard candied over, then turne them upon plates & let them stand 3
਀漀爀 㐀 搀愀礀猀 戀攀昀漀爀攀 礀漀甀 挀甀琀 琀栀攀洀⸀  琀栀攀渀 挀甀琀 琀栀攀洀 椀渀琀漀 眀栀愀琀 昀愀猀栀椀漀渀猀 礀漀甀ഊplease.  soe dry them up, and after box them.
਀ഊNote:  A flaggon is a large bottle shaped vessel fo 2 quarts capacity
਀琀栀愀琀 洀愀礀 眀攀氀氀 戀攀 挀氀漀猀攀搀⸀  倀椀氀最爀椀洀猀 漀爀椀最椀渀愀氀氀礀 挀愀爀爀椀攀搀 眀椀渀攀 椀渀 猀甀挀栀 樀甀最猀⸀ഊ
਀吀伀 䌀䄀一䐀夀 䜀刀䔀䔀一 䄀倀刀䤀䌀伀䌀䬀 䌀䠀䤀倀匀ഊ
਀吀愀欀攀 礀漀甀爀 䄀瀀爀椀挀漀挀欀猀 愀渀搀 瀀愀爀攀 琀栀攀洀 愀渀搀 挀甀琀 琀栀攀洀 椀渀琀漀 挀栀椀瀀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 瀀甀琀 琀栀攀洀ഊinto running water with A good handfull of green wheat, before it be
਀攀愀爀攀搀⸀  琀栀攀渀 戀漀礀氀攀 琀栀攀洀 愀 氀椀琀琀氀攀Ⰰ 愀昀琀攀爀 琀愀欀攀 琀栀攀洀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀 昀椀爀攀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 瀀甀琀ഊthem in a silver or earthen dish with a pritty quantety of good white
਀猀甀最愀爀 昀椀渀攀氀礀 戀攀愀琀嬀攀渀崀⸀  琀栀攀渀 猀攀琀 琀栀攀洀 漀瘀攀爀 琀栀攀 昀椀爀攀 琀椀氀氀 琀栀攀礀 戀攀 搀爀礀Ⰰഊand they will look clear and green.  then lay them on glas[ses and put]
਀琀栀攀洀 椀渀 愀 猀琀漀瘀攀 䄀 眀栀椀氀攀Ⰰ ☀ 琀栀攀渀 戀漀砀 礀洀⸀ഊ
਀一漀琀攀㨀  䜀爀攀攀渀 眀栀攀愀琀Ⰰ 氀椀欀攀 愀渀礀 最爀愀猀猀Ⰰ 猀琀愀椀渀猀 眀栀愀琀攀瘀攀爀 椀琀 琀漀甀挀栀攀搀 眀椀琀栀 愀渀ഊintense green; it was a common coloring matter.  As noted, it must not
਀栀愀瘀攀 猀琀愀爀琀攀搀 琀漀 攀愀爀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 椀琀 椀猀 琀漀 戀攀 猀琀爀愀椀渀攀搀 漀甀琀 漀渀挀攀 琀栀攀 挀漀氀漀爀 栀愀猀ഊbeen leached out.
਀ഊTO PRESERUE DAMSONS OTHER PLUMS OR APRICOCKS TO KEEP ALL Ye YEAR IN A
਀儀唀䄀䌀䬀䔀䤀一䜀 䨀䔀䰀䰀夀ഊ
਀㰀猀攀攀 洀愀爀洀愀氀愀搀攀猀ⴀ洀猀最㸀ഊ
਀吀伀 䴀䄀䬀䔀 伀䘀 倀䰀唀䴀匀 倀䔀䄀刀匀 伀刀 䄀倀刀䤀䌀伀䌀䬀匀 䄀 倀䄀匀吀䔀 夀琀 匀䠀䄀䰀䰀 䰀伀伀䬀 䌀䰀䔀䄀刀 䄀匀 䄀䴀䈀䔀刀ഊ
਀㰀猀攀攀 洀愀爀洀愀氀愀搀攀猀ⴀ洀猀最㸀ഊ
਀吀伀 䴀䄀䬀䔀 䄀 儀唀䤀䐀伀一夀 伀䘀 䄀倀刀䤀䌀伀䌀䬀匀 伀刀 倀䔀䄀刀 倀䰀唀䴀匀ഊ
਀㰀猀攀攀 洀愀爀洀愀氀愀搀攀猀ⴀ洀猀最㸀ഊ
਀ഊDate: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 08:14:02 -0600
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 䰀 䠀攀爀爀ⴀ䜀攀氀愀琀琀 愀渀搀 䨀 刀 䜀攀氀愀琀琀 㰀氀椀漀渀琀愀洀爀 愀琀 瀀琀搀⸀渀攀琀㸀ഊSubject: SC - preserved fruits
਀ഊ>Looking through several late-period cookbooks, I'm finding lots of recipes
਀㸀昀漀爀 瀀爀攀猀攀爀瘀椀渀最 昀爀甀椀琀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 栀愀瘀攀 琀栀攀 昀漀氀氀漀眀椀渀最 焀甀攀猀琀椀漀渀猀㨀ഊ
਀䌀漀渀最爀愀琀甀氀愀琀椀漀渀猀 漀渀 昀椀渀搀椀渀最 洀礀 洀椀渀椀ⴀ栀漀戀戀礀 眀椀琀栀椀渀 猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀椀渀最℀ 䤀 昀椀渀搀 昀爀甀椀琀猀ഊand preserves are vastly under-represented at our feast tables (preserved
਀昀漀漀搀 椀渀 最攀渀攀爀愀氀 椀猀 甀渀搀攀爀ⴀ爀攀瀀爀攀猀攀渀琀攀搀⤀⸀ 倀爀攀猀攀爀瘀攀搀 昀爀甀椀琀猀 愀爀攀 渀漀琀 渀攀挀攀猀猀愀爀氀椀礀ഊhard to make if you have a little cooking experience, and the flavor they
਀搀攀氀椀瘀攀爀 椀猀 眀漀爀琀栀 琀栀攀 琀爀漀甀戀氀攀⸀ 䄀氀氀 椀渀 愀氀氀Ⰰ 䤀 栀愀瘀攀 渀攀瘀攀爀 栀愀搀 愀 戀愀搀 攀砀瀀攀爀椀攀渀挀攀ഊwhen serving a preserved fruit at a feast table.
਀ഊYou will have to be a little creative when using these preserved fruits. I
਀栀愀瘀攀 渀漀琀椀挀攀搀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀爀攀 愀爀攀 渀甀洀攀爀漀甀猀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀猀 昀漀爀 瀀爀攀猀攀爀瘀椀渀最 昀爀甀椀琀猀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 昀攀眀ഊ(almost none) using preserved fruit in a recipe. In some cases it is OK to
਀甀猀攀 琀栀攀 瀀爀攀猀攀爀瘀攀搀 昀爀甀椀琀 愀猀 礀漀甀 眀漀甀氀搀 昀爀攀猀栀 昀爀甀椀琀 ⠀琀栀攀 挀栀愀爀愀挀琀攀爀 漀昀 琀栀攀 搀椀猀栀ഊwill change slightly), but in others it just won't work.
਀ഊ>- - I read or was told by someone (wish I could remember) that Pippins
਀㸀爀攀昀攀爀爀攀搀 琀漀 愀 猀瀀攀挀椀昀椀挀 琀礀瀀攀 漀昀 愀瀀瀀氀攀 眀栀椀挀栀 椀猀 渀漀 氀漀渀最攀爀 愀瘀愀椀氀愀戀氀攀⸀ 䄀渀礀漀渀攀ഊ>know if this is true? If so, what is the best sort of apple to replace them
਀㸀眀椀琀栀⸀ 圀栀愀琀 愀戀漀甀琀 䌀漀猀琀攀爀猀Ⰰ 愀渀漀琀栀攀爀 ⠀攀愀爀氀椀攀爀㼀⤀ 琀攀爀洀 昀漀爀 愀瀀瀀氀攀猀㼀 䄀爀攀 琀栀攀礀 愀氀猀漀ഊ>a specific type, or a generic term?
਀ഊSmall, round, red and hard (not to mention hardy). Less sweet (see large
਀愀洀漀甀渀琀猀 漀昀 猀甀最愀爀 愀搀搀攀搀 琀漀 琀栀攀洀 昀漀爀 瀀爀攀猀攀爀瘀愀琀椀漀渀⤀⸀ 䄀猀 昀漀爀 猀甀戀猀琀椀琀甀琀攀猀Ⰰ 䤀✀搀 最漀ഊfor the bags of cooking macs, ida reds or some such, wich are smaller, have
਀戀攀琀琀攀爀 昀氀愀瘀漀爀 琀栀愀渀 琀栀攀 攀渀漀爀洀漀甀猀 漀渀攀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 洀漀爀攀 挀氀漀猀攀氀礀 洀椀洀椀挀 愀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 猀椀稀攀搀ഊapple. Stay away from those so-called delicious varieties. They aren't.
਀ഊ>- - Same for the terms "Pears" and "Wardens". Are Wardens a specific type of
਀㸀瀀攀愀爀㼀ഊ
਀䄀 眀愀爀搀攀渀 椀猀 愀 瘀攀爀礀 栀愀爀搀 琀礀瀀攀 漀昀 瀀攀愀爀⸀ 夀漀甀爀 昀椀爀洀攀爀ⴀ琀礀瀀攀 攀愀琀椀渀最 瀀攀愀爀猀 眀漀甀氀搀 搀漀ഊfine here, but be warned that they do not cook quickly. I once had to resort
਀琀漀 瀀甀氀瘀攀爀椀猀椀渀最 椀渀 愀 昀漀漀搀 瀀爀漀挀攀猀猀漀爀 眀栀攀渀 洀愀欀椀渀最 愀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀 昀漀爀 愀瀀瀀氀攀 洀漀礀猀攀 琀栀愀琀ഊcalled for wardens.
਀ഊ>- - How about "Damsins" and "Plums"?
਀ഊA Damson (Damsins) is a type of plum you may be able to find today.
਀ഊ>- - Rasberries, raspiss, respass, rasps (all terms found in a single book)?
਀ഊRaspberries are larger now. Wild raspberries (which were frequently hedgerow
਀昀爀甀椀琀猀 椀渀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀⤀ 洀愀欀攀 愀 最漀漀搀 猀甀戀猀琀椀琀甀琀攀⸀ 吀栀攀猀攀 愀爀攀 愀氀氀 眀漀爀搀猀 昀漀爀 琀栀攀 猀愀洀攀ഊfruit.
਀ഊAoife
਀ഊ
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 匀愀琀Ⰰ ㌀㄀ 䨀愀渀 ㄀㤀㤀㠀 　㄀㨀㈀㐀㨀　㌀ ⴀ　㠀　　ഊFrom: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 挀甀爀爀愀渀琀 猀攀欀愀渀樀愀戀椀渀 ⠀眀愀猀 爀漀猀攀 猀攀欀愀渀樀愀戀椀渀⼀眀愀⤀ഊ
਀䄀琀 ㈀㨀㔀　 倀䴀 ⴀ　㠀　　 ㄀⼀㌀　⼀㤀㠀Ⰰ 䌀爀礀猀琀愀氀 䄀⸀ 䤀猀愀愀挀 眀爀漀琀攀㨀ഊ
਀㸀䤀✀瘀攀 洀愀搀攀 琀栀攀 挀甀爀爀攀渀琀 猀攀欀愀渀樀愀戀椀渀 琀眀漀 眀愀礀猀⸀ 伀渀攀 洀攀琀栀漀搀 椀猀 琀漀 最攀琀 爀攀最甀氀愀爀ഊ>ole dried currants,...
਀ഊ>For better color and flavor, buy Hero brand Black currant syrup.
਀ഊIt is not clear from this whether Crystal realizes that she is talking
਀愀戀漀甀琀 琀眀漀 攀渀琀椀爀攀氀礀 搀椀昀昀攀爀攀渀琀 昀爀甀椀琀猀⸀ ∀刀攀最甀氀愀爀 漀氀搀 搀爀椀攀搀 挀甀爀爀愀渀琀猀Ⰰ∀ 愀欀愀 ⠀椀渀ഊperiod cookbooks) "raisins of Corinth," are a small raisin. Black currants
਀愀渀搀 爀攀搀 挀甀爀爀愀渀琀猀 愀爀攀 愀 搀椀昀昀攀爀攀渀琀 昀爀甀椀琀ⴀⴀ琀栀攀 戀漀琀愀渀椀挀愀氀 渀愀洀攀 椀猀 ∀爀椀戀攀猀⸀∀ 䤀ഊdon't know which the period source she has referred to is talking
਀愀戀漀甀琀ⴀⴀ氀漀漀欀椀渀最 愀琀 椀琀 椀渀 琀栀攀 漀爀椀最椀渀愀氀 洀椀最栀琀 栀攀氀瀀⸀ 䴀礀 搀椀挀琀椀漀渀愀爀礀 戀攀氀椀攀瘀攀猀 琀栀攀ഊribes fruits got called currants because they looked like the other kind of
਀挀甀爀爀愀渀琀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 琀栀攀 渀愀洀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀 漀爀椀最椀渀愀氀 挀甀爀爀愀渀琀 搀攀爀椀瘀攀猀 昀爀漀洀 ∀䌀漀爀椀渀琀栀⸀∀ഊ
਀䐀愀瘀椀搀⼀䌀愀爀椀愀搀漀挀ഊhttp://www.best.com/~ddfr/
਀ഊ
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 匀愀琀Ⰰ ㌀㄀ 䨀愀渀 ㄀㤀㤀㠀 ㄀　㨀㐀㔀㨀㌀㔀 䔀匀吀ഊFrom: LrdRas at aol.com
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 挀甀爀爀愀渀琀 猀攀欀愀渀樀愀戀椀渀 ⠀眀愀猀 爀漀猀攀 猀攀欀愀渀樀愀戀椀渀⼀眀愀⤀ഊ
਀㰀㰀 䈀氀愀挀欀 挀甀爀爀愀渀琀猀ഊ and red currants are a different fruit--the botanical name is "ribes."  I
਀ 搀漀渀✀琀 欀渀漀眀 眀栀椀挀栀 琀栀攀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 猀漀甀爀挀攀 猀栀攀 栀愀猀 爀攀昀攀爀爀攀搀 琀漀 椀猀 琀愀氀欀椀渀最ഊ about--looking at it in the original might help.  My dictionary believes the
਀ 爀椀戀攀猀 昀爀甀椀琀猀 最漀琀 挀愀氀氀攀搀 挀甀爀爀愀渀琀猀 戀攀挀愀甀猀攀 琀栀攀礀 氀漀漀欀攀搀 氀椀欀攀 琀栀攀 漀琀栀攀爀 欀椀渀搀 漀昀ഊ currants, and the name of the original currant derives from "Corinth."
਀ഊ David/Cariadoc >>
਀ഊThis is correct so far as my research has lead me to believe.  Thankfully the
਀瀀爀漀搀甀挀琀 猀漀氀搀 椀渀 琀栀攀 洀愀爀欀攀琀 愀猀 ∀䐀爀椀攀搀 䌀甀爀爀愀渀琀猀 ∀ 椀猀 椀渀 昀愀挀琀 琀栀攀 稀愀渀琀攀 爀愀椀猀椀渀ഊ(e.g., raisins of Corinth). It still amazes me that this very universal period
਀椀渀最爀攀搀椀攀渀琀 椀猀 猀琀椀氀氀 猀漀氀搀 挀漀洀洀攀爀挀椀愀氀氀礀  愀渀搀 椀猀 爀攀氀愀琀椀瘀攀氀礀 甀渀椀瘀攀爀猀愀氀氀礀 愀瘀愀椀氀愀戀氀攀ഊin the modern world. :-)
਀ഊRas
਀ഊ
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 匀甀渀Ⰰ 㠀 䘀攀戀 ㄀㤀㤀㠀 ㄀㈀㨀㈀　㨀㐀㜀 ⴀ　㜀　　ഊFrom: "Stevens" <gto at verdenet.com>
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 猀甀氀琀愀渀愀猀ഊ
਀猀甀氀琀愀渀愀猀 愀爀攀 最漀氀搀攀渀 爀愀椀猀椀渀猀  渀椀渀欀椀瀀ഊ
਀ഊDate: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 00:33:03 -0600 (CST)
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 樀攀昀昀爀攀礀 猀 栀攀椀氀瘀攀椀氀 㰀栀攀椀氀瘀攀椀氀 愀琀 猀琀甀搀攀渀琀猀⸀甀椀甀挀⸀攀搀甀㸀ഊSubject: SC - The last recipe
਀ഊHere it is, Crispy Pear and Apple Sandwhiches, Care of Alia Atlas
਀吀栀攀 漀爀椀最椀渀愀氀㨀ഊ10. Ein spise von birn (A food of pears)
਀      一椀洀 最攀戀爀愀琀攀渀攀 戀椀爀渀 甀渀搀 猀甀爀攀 攀瀀昀攀氀攀 甀渀搀 栀愀挀欀攀 猀椀攀 欀氀攀椀渀攀⸀ 甀渀搀 琀甀 搀愀爀ഊzu pfeffer und enis und ro eyer. znit zwo dnne schiben von dnne brote.
਀昀氀氀攀 搀椀稀 搀愀 稀眀椀猀挀栀攀渀 渀椀栀琀 瘀漀氀氀攀渀 攀椀渀攀猀 瘀椀渀最攀爀猀 搀椀挀欀攀⸀ഊ      mache ein dnnez blat von eyern und kere daz einez dor inne umm, und
਀戀愀挀欀攀稀 洀椀琀 戀甀琀攀爀渀 椀渀 攀椀渀攀爀 瀀栀愀渀渀攀渀 戀椀稀 搀愀稀 攀稀 爀漀琀 眀攀爀搀攀 甀渀搀 最椀戀稀 栀椀渀⸀ഊ
਀      吀愀欀攀 爀漀愀猀琀攀搀 瀀攀愀爀猀 愀渀搀 琀愀爀琀 愀瀀瀀氀攀猀 愀渀搀 挀栀漀瀀 琀栀攀洀 猀洀愀氀氀⸀ 䄀渀搀 愀搀搀ഊthereto pepper and anise and raw eggs. Cut two thin slices from thin
਀戀爀攀愀搀⸀ 䘀椀氀氀 琀栀椀猀 椀渀 戀攀琀眀攀攀渀 渀漀琀 琀漀漀 昀甀氀氀Ⰰ 漀昀 愀 昀椀渀最攀爀✀猀 琀栀椀挀欀渀攀猀猀⸀ഊ      Make a thin leaf of eggs and turn that therein about and bake it
਀眀椀琀栀 戀甀琀琀攀爀 椀渀 愀 瀀愀渀 甀渀琀椀氀 椀琀 戀攀挀漀洀攀猀 爀攀搀 愀渀搀 最椀瘀攀 漀甀琀⸀ഊ
਀刀攀挀椀瀀攀 ㄀　㨀 䌀爀椀猀瀀礀 倀攀愀爀 愀渀搀 䄀瀀瀀氀攀 䘀爀攀渀挀栀 吀漀愀猀琀 匀愀渀搀眀椀挀栀攀猀ഊ
਀挀漀瀀礀爀椀最栀琀 ㄀㤀㤀㐀 䄀氀椀愀 䄀琀氀愀猀ഊ
਀䄀瀀瀀氀攀 愀渀搀 倀攀愀爀 䘀椀氀氀椀渀最㨀ഊ
਀      ㄀ 瀀攀愀爀猀Ⰰ 猀欀椀渀渀攀搀Ⰰ 挀漀爀攀搀 愀渀搀 挀栀漀瀀瀀攀搀 瘀攀爀礀 猀洀愀氀氀ഊ      2 apples, skinned, cored and chopped very small
਀      ㄀⼀㐀 琀猀瀀 愀渀椀猀攀 猀攀攀搀Ⰰ 最爀漀甀渀搀ഊ      1/8 tsp pepper
਀      ㄀ 攀最最ഊ
਀䴀椀砀 愀瀀瀀氀攀猀Ⰰ 瀀攀愀爀猀Ⰰ 攀最最猀Ⰰ 愀渀椀猀攀 愀渀搀 瀀攀瀀瀀攀爀 琀漀最攀琀栀攀爀⸀ 吀栀椀猀 椀猀 甀猀攀搀 琀漀 昀椀氀氀ഊthe sandwiches.
਀ഊFrench Toast Sandwiches:
਀ഊ      3 eggs or 1 egg and 4 egg whites
਀      㠀 猀氀椀挀攀猀 戀爀攀愀搀ഊ      1 Tbsp butter
਀ഊPreheat oven to 400 F. Beat eggs. Butter a foil-lined baking sheet. Make 4
਀猀愀渀搀眀椀挀栀攀猀 眀椀琀栀 戀爀攀愀搀 愀渀搀 昀椀氀氀椀渀最⸀ 䐀椀瀀 猀愀渀搀眀椀挀栀攀猀 椀渀琀漀 琀栀攀 戀攀愀琀攀渀 攀最最ഊlightly. This should be done quickly, so that the sandwiches
਀眀椀氀氀 渀漀琀 戀攀 猀漀最最礀⸀ 吀栀攀渀 瀀甀琀 琀栀攀 猀愀渀搀眀椀挀栀攀猀 漀渀琀漀 琀栀攀 戀愀欀椀渀最 猀栀攀攀琀⸀ 䈀愀欀攀 昀漀爀ഊ30 minutes, or until golden brown, turning halfway through (after 15
਀洀椀渀甀琀攀猀⤀⸀ഊ
਀ഊDate: Sun, 10 May 1998 09:23:16 -0500
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀䐀攀挀欀攀爀Ⰰ 吀攀爀爀礀 䐀⸀∀ 㰀吀攀爀爀礀䐀 愀琀 䠀攀愀氀琀栀⸀匀琀愀琀攀⸀伀䬀⸀唀匀㸀ഊSubject: RE: SC - Roman world - Apricots or Peaches
਀ഊ> The way my version of Apicius reads is that they had peaches in ancient Rome
਀㸀 愀渀搀 渀漀琀 愀瀀爀椀挀漀琀猀 ⠀挀栀攀挀欀攀搀 琀栀攀 氀愀琀椀渀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀 渀愀洀攀 眀椀琀栀 琀栀攀 搀椀挀琀椀漀渀愀爀礀 ⴀഊ> there's no mistranslation).
਀㸀ഊ> Glenda Robinson
਀ഊAccording to Trager's The Food Chronology, about 140 B.C. apricots and
਀瀀攀愀挀栀攀猀 眀攀爀攀 戀爀漀甀最栀琀 漀甀琀 漀昀 䌀栀椀渀愀 椀渀琀漀 琀栀攀 一攀愀爀 䔀愀猀琀⸀  䄀戀漀甀琀 㘀㔀 䈀⸀䌀⸀Ⰰ 倀漀洀瀀攀礀ഊintroduced apricots, peaches and plums into the Roman orchards.
਀ഊThe source is a questionable, but it gives a starting point for finding
਀洀攀愀琀椀攀爀 椀渀昀漀爀洀愀琀椀漀渀⸀ഊ
਀䈀攀愀爀ഊ
਀ഊDate: Tue, 26 May 1998 00:37:38 +0000
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀刀漀戀椀渀 䌀愀爀爀漀氀氀ⴀ䴀愀渀渀∀ 㰀栀愀爀瀀攀爀 愀琀 椀搀琀⸀渀攀琀㸀ഊSubject: Re: SC - Rhubarb
਀ഊAnd it came to pass on 25 May 98, that LrdRas wrote:
਀ഊ> So far as my research goes, it is pretty mush excepted that rhubarb
਀㸀 眀愀猀 甀猀攀搀 愀猀 愀 洀攀搀椀挀椀渀愀氀 瀀氀愀渀琀⸀ 伀甀琀猀椀搀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀 瀀攀爀猀漀渀愀氀 攀砀瀀攀爀椀攀渀挀攀猀ഊ> many of us have had with the medical benefits and the occasional
਀㸀 洀攀渀琀椀漀渀 漀昀 椀琀 椀渀 栀攀爀戀愀氀猀Ⰰ 椀猀 琀栀攀爀攀 愀渀礀 戀愀猀椀猀 椀渀 昀愀挀琀 琀栀愀琀 爀栀甀戀愀爀戀ഊ> was used as a "food" plant during period?
਀ഊIn _Food and Drink in Britain_, it says that the variety of rhubarb
਀眀栀椀挀栀 眀愀猀 攀愀琀攀渀 愀猀 愀 昀爀甀椀琀 愀爀爀椀瘀攀搀 椀渀 䔀渀最氀愀渀搀 昀爀漀洀 䤀琀愀氀礀 椀渀 琀栀攀 ㄀㜀琀栀ഊcentury.  I do not know how early it was being grown/eaten in Italy.
਀ഊLady Brighid ni Chiarain of Tethba
਀䈀愀爀漀渀礀 漀昀 匀攀琀琀洀漀甀爀 匀眀愀洀瀀Ⰰ 䔀愀猀琀 䬀椀渀最搀漀洀ഊ
਀ഊDate: Tue, 26 May 1998 09:45:33 -0400
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 一椀挀欀 匀愀猀猀漀 㰀一樀猀 愀琀 洀挀挀愀氀氀愀⸀挀漀洀㸀ഊSubject: SC - Rhubarb as food reference
਀ഊAccording to _Food in History_ (Tannahill, 1973), Rhubarb is of
਀䌀栀椀渀攀猀攀 漀爀椀最椀渀⸀  䤀琀 挀愀洀攀 眀攀猀琀 愀猀 愀 昀漀漀搀猀琀甀昀昀 瘀椀愀 䄀爀愀戀 愀渀搀 刀栀愀搀愀渀椀琀攀ഊJew caravans (p.126).  She mentions it in a section describing the "new
਀眀愀氀氀攀搀 挀椀琀礀 漀昀 䈀栀愀最搀愀搀∀ 漀昀 琀栀攀 㠀琀栀 挀攀渀琀甀爀礀⸀ഊ
਀一漀琀 琀栀攀 眀漀爀氀搀✀猀 最爀攀愀琀攀猀琀 猀漀甀爀挀攀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 愀 最漀漀搀 猀甀最最攀猀琀椀漀渀⸀ഊ
਀渀椀挀挀漀氀漀ഊ
਀ഊDate: Tue, 26 May 1998 12:45:01 -0500
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀䐀攀挀欀攀爀Ⰰ 吀攀爀爀礀 䐀⸀∀ 㰀吀攀爀爀礀䐀 愀琀 䠀攀愀氀琀栀⸀匀琀愀琀攀⸀伀䬀⸀唀匀㸀ഊSubject: RE: SC - Rhubarb as food reference
਀ഊJust for fun, here is some etomology for the word rhubarb.
਀ഊBTW, the handy quick ref says what we eat is Rheum rhubarbarum and that the
਀䄀猀椀愀渀 瘀愀爀椀攀琀椀攀猀 愀爀攀 刀栀攀甀洀 漀昀昀椀挀椀渀愀氀攀 愀渀搀 刀⸀ 瀀愀氀洀愀琀甀洀 愀渀搀 愀爀攀 甀猀攀搀 愀猀ഊlaxatives.
਀ഊBear
਀ഊ[Middle English rubarbe, from Old French, from Late Latin reubarbarum,
਀瀀爀漀戀愀戀氀礀 愀氀琀攀爀愀琀椀漀渀 ⠀椀渀昀氀甀攀渀挀攀搀 戀礀 䜀爀攀攀欀 爀栀漀渀⤀Ⰰ 漀昀 爀栀愀戀愀爀戀愀爀甀洀 㨀 爀栀愀Ⰰഊrhubarb (from Greek, perhaps from Rha, the Volga River) + Latin barbarum,
਀渀攀甀琀攀爀 漀昀 戀愀爀戀愀爀甀猀Ⰰ 戀愀爀戀愀爀椀愀渀Ⰰ 昀漀爀攀椀最渀⸀ 匀攀攀 䈀䄀刀䈀䄀刀伀唀匀⸀崀ഊWord History: The word rhubarb may contain two hidden references to its
਀漀爀椀最椀渀猀⸀ 吀栀攀 昀椀爀猀琀 漀昀 琀栀攀猀攀 椀猀 椀渀 琀栀攀 爀栀甀ⴀ 瀀愀爀琀 漀昀 琀栀攀 眀漀爀搀Ⰰ 眀栀椀挀栀 挀愀渀 戀攀ഊtraced back to the Greek word rha, meaning "rhubarb." According to the Late
਀䰀愀琀椀渀 栀椀猀琀漀爀椀愀渀 䄀洀洀椀愀渀甀猀 䴀愀爀挀攀氀氀椀渀甀猀Ⰰ 爀栀甀戀愀爀戀 眀愀猀 渀愀洀攀搀 爀栀愀 戀攀挀愀甀猀攀 椀琀 最爀攀眀ഊnear the river named Rha, which we know as the Volga. The -barb part of
਀爀栀甀戀愀爀戀 眀愀猀 愀挀琀甀愀氀氀礀 愀搀搀攀搀 昀椀爀猀琀 琀漀 䰀愀琀攀 䰀愀琀椀渀 爀栀愀Ⰰ 搀攀猀挀攀渀搀攀搀 昀爀漀洀 䜀爀攀攀欀ഊrha, in the form rhabarbarum, barbarum being the neuter form of barbarus,
਀∀昀漀爀攀椀最渀⸀∀ 䄀渀漀琀栀攀爀 䜀爀攀攀欀 眀漀爀搀 昀漀爀 爀栀甀戀愀爀戀Ⰰ 爀栀漀渀Ⰰ 椀渀昀氀甀攀渀挀攀搀 琀栀攀 䰀愀琀攀 䰀愀琀椀渀ഊword rhabarbarum, giving us reubarbarum, which yielded Old French reubarbe.
਀吀栀攀 伀氀搀 䘀爀攀渀挀栀 昀漀爀洀 最愀瘀攀 甀猀 䴀椀搀搀氀攀 䔀渀最氀椀猀栀 爀甀戀愀爀戀攀Ⰰ 昀椀爀猀琀 爀攀挀漀爀搀攀搀 椀渀 愀 眀漀爀欀ഊwritten around 1390. In imitation of the way the Greek word rha is spelled,
਀愀渀 栀 眀愀猀 愀搀搀攀搀Ⰰ 挀漀洀瀀氀攀琀椀渀最 琀栀攀 氀漀渀最 樀漀甀爀渀攀礀 漀昀 琀栀椀猀 眀漀爀搀 椀渀琀漀 䔀渀最氀椀猀栀 昀爀漀洀ഊthe banks of the Volga in classical times.
਀ഊ
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 圀攀搀Ⰰ ㌀ 䨀甀渀 ㄀㤀㤀㠀 ㄀㔀㨀㌀㠀㨀㌀㌀ 䔀䐀吀ഊFrom: THLRenata at aol.com
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀  匀䌀 ⴀ 愀 焀甀攀猀琀椀漀渀ഊ
਀䔀氀椀渀漀爀 䘀攀琀琀椀瀀氀愀挀攀✀猀 刀攀挀攀椀瀀琀 䈀漀漀欀 栀愀猀 愀 眀漀渀搀攀爀昀甀氀 樀愀洀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀 ⠀瀀愀最攀 ㄀㈀㠀 昀漀爀ഊthose who own the book):
਀ഊTo Preserve Plums or Gooseberries
਀吀愀欀攀 琀漀 攀瘀攀爀礀 瀀漀甀渀搀 漀昀 瀀氀甀洀猀 愀 瀀漀甀渀搀 漀昀 猀甀最愀爀Ⰰ 琀栀攀渀 戀攀愀琀 椀琀 猀洀愀氀Ⰰ ☀ 瀀甀琀 猀漀ഊmuch water to it as  will wet, then boyle till it bee sugar againe, then put
਀椀渀 琀栀攀 瀀氀甀洀猀Ⰰ ☀ 氀攀琀 琀栀攀洀 戀漀椀氀攀 瘀攀爀礀 猀漀昀琀氀椀攀Ⰰ 琀椀氀氀 琀栀攀礀 戀攀 搀漀漀渀攀Ⰰ 琀栀攀渀 眀栀攀渀ഊthey bee cold put them up, if they begin to grow then set them where fireis in
਀愀 挀甀瀀戀漀愀爀搀㬀 礀漀甀 洀愀礀 搀漀攀 爀攀猀瀀椀猀 琀栀椀猀 眀愀礀 ☀ 最漀漀猀攀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 礀漀甀 洀甀猀琀 戀漀礀氀攀ഊthem verie soft , & not put the up till they bee cold, & likewise may Cherries
਀戀攀攀 搀漀漀渀攀 愀猀 礀漀甀爀 最漀漀猀攀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 ☀ 爀攀猀瀀椀猀⸀ഊ
਀䠀椀氀愀爀礀 匀瀀甀爀氀椀渀最 栀愀猀 爀攀搀愀挀琀攀搀 琀栀攀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀㨀ഊ
਀䴀漀椀猀琀攀渀 琀栀攀 猀甀最愀爀 眀椀琀栀 愀猀 氀椀琀琀氀攀 眀愀琀攀爀 愀猀 瀀漀猀猀椀戀氀攀Ⰰ 猀愀礀 愀 焀甀愀爀琀攀爀 琀漀 栀愀氀昀 愀ഊpint per pound, put it in a large thick-bottomed pan, and stir it over the
਀最攀渀琀氀攀猀琀 瀀漀猀猀椀戀氀攀 栀攀愀琀 眀椀琀栀漀甀琀 戀漀椀氀椀渀最 甀渀琀椀氀 椀琀 椀猀 搀椀猀猀漀氀瘀攀搀⸀ ∀䈀漀礀氀攀 琀椀氀氀 椀琀ഊbee sugar againe" means boil the syrup hard until it reaches what cooks of the
਀瀀攀爀椀漀搀 挀愀氀氀 ∀挀愀渀搀椀攀 栀攀椀最栀琀∀ ⠀㈀㐀　 搀攀最爀攀攀猀 䘀Ⰰ ㄀㄀㔀 搀攀最爀攀攀猀 䌀 漀渀 愀 猀甀最愀爀ഊthermometer), when it will chrystalize if you beat it.
਀ഊI (this is Renata again) have made this several times with a variety of fruit
਀愀渀搀 椀琀✀猀 猀挀愀爀礀 戀甀琀 椀琀 眀漀爀欀猀⸀ 夀漀甀 攀渀搀 甀瀀 眀椀琀栀 愀 瀀愀渀 昀甀氀氀 漀昀 栀漀琀 爀漀挀欀 挀愀渀搀礀Ⰰഊthen just dump your fruit in and let it sit over the lowest possible heat. The
਀樀甀椀挀攀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀 昀爀甀椀琀 爀攀ⴀ洀攀氀琀猀 琀栀攀 猀甀最愀爀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 渀攀攀搀猀 愀渀 漀挀挀愀猀猀椀漀渀愀氀 猀琀椀爀 愀渀搀⼀漀爀ഊchipping sugar away from the sides of the pan.
਀ഊBy the time the sugar has totally remelted, the jam is ready to set (test this
਀戀礀 瀀甀琀琀椀渀最 愀 搀爀漀瀀 漀渀 愀 挀漀氀搀 瀀氀愀琀攀 愀渀搀 瀀甀猀栀椀渀最 椀琀 ⴀⴀ 椀昀 椀琀 昀漀爀洀猀 愀 猀欀椀渀 琀栀愀琀ഊwrinkles, it's ready to set) without ever boiling the fruit, which improves
਀琀栀攀 昀氀愀瘀漀爀⸀ഊ
਀吀栀攀 爀攀猀甀氀琀椀渀最 樀愀洀 椀猀 眀漀渀搀攀爀昀甀氀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 愀 栀漀琀 眀愀琀攀爀 戀愀琀栀 椀猀 渀漀琀 渀攀挀攀猀猀愀爀礀Ⰰ 愀猀 琀栀攀ഊhigh sugar content keeps the jam form spoiling.
਀ഊIf it works for respis (raspberries) it should work for mulberries. How lucky
਀礀漀甀 愀爀攀 琀栀愀琀 礀漀甀 栀愀瘀攀 攀渀漀甀最栀 琀漀 挀漀渀猀椀搀攀爀 樀愀洀⸀ 吀栀攀 栀漀甀猀攀 眀栀攀爀攀 䤀 最爀攀眀 甀瀀 栀愀搀 愀ഊmulberry tree and we used to love the berries it produced. None ever lasted
਀氀漀渀最 攀渀漀甀最栀 昀漀爀 樀愀洀Ⰰ 琀栀漀⸀ഊ
਀刀攀渀愀琀愀ഊ
਀ഊDate: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 19:48:59 -0500
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀䐀攀挀欀攀爀Ⰰ 吀攀爀爀礀 䐀⸀∀ 㰀吀攀爀爀礀䐀 愀琀 䠀攀愀氀琀栀⸀匀琀愀琀攀⸀伀䬀⸀唀匀㸀ഊSubject: RE: SC - almond milk
਀ഊ> Interesting.  This is the same method one uses in Brazil (that again)
਀㸀 琀漀 最攀琀 挀漀挀漀渀甀琀 洀椀氀欀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀礀 挀漀漀欀 眀椀琀栀 攀砀琀攀渀猀椀瘀攀氀礀⸀  䄀渀搀 琀栀攀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀ഊ> calls specifically for thick milk (first squeezing) or thin milk
਀㸀 ⠀猀攀挀漀渀搀 猀焀甀攀攀稀椀渀最⤀⸀  䤀 眀漀渀搀攀爀 眀栀攀渀 琀栀愀琀 瀀爀愀挀琀椀挀攀 猀琀愀爀琀攀搀㼀  吀栀攀礀ഊ> certainly came in contact with coconuts fairly early, didn't they?
਀㸀 䈀攀愀爀㼀ഊ>
਀㸀 吀礀爀挀愀ഊ
਀䘀爀漀洀 愀 焀甀椀挀欀 挀栀攀挀欀Ⰰ 挀漀挀漀渀甀琀猀 愀爀攀 渀愀琀椀瘀攀 琀漀 愀氀氀 琀栀攀 琀爀漀瀀椀挀 爀攀最椀漀渀猀 漀昀 琀栀攀ഊPacific, and the point of origin has never been determined.
਀ഊThey make an appearance in Egypt about the 6th Century C.E., then make no
਀椀洀瀀愀挀琀 漀渀 琀栀攀 䴀攀搀椀琀攀爀爀愀渀攀愀渀 眀漀爀氀搀 甀渀琀椀氀 琀栀攀 攀渀搀 漀昀 琀栀攀 ㄀㜀琀栀 挀攀渀琀甀爀礀⸀  䴀愀爀挀漀ഊPolo mentions them as being cut open for food and drink, but makes no
਀洀攀渀琀椀漀渀 漀昀 瀀爀漀挀攀猀猀椀渀最⸀  吀栀攀 爀攀昀攀爀攀渀挀攀猀 䤀 栀愀瘀攀 昀漀爀 瀀爀漀挀攀猀猀椀渀最 挀漀挀漀渀甀琀猀 搀愀琀攀ഊcommercial processing in the late 19th Century and don't mention the
਀琀攀挀栀渀椀焀甀攀猀⸀ഊ
਀圀栀椀氀攀 琀栀攀 挀漀挀漀渀甀琀 眀愀猀 椀渀 匀漀甀琀栀 䄀洀攀爀椀挀愀 攀愀爀氀礀 漀渀Ⰰ 䤀 琀栀椀渀欀 椀琀 椀猀 氀椀欀攀氀礀 琀栀愀琀ഊthe coconut was introduced into Brazil by the Portuguese through trade with
਀琀栀攀 匀瀀愀渀椀猀栀 愀渀搀 琀栀攀 瀀爀漀挀攀猀猀椀渀最 漀昀 挀漀挀漀渀甀琀 最漀琀 猀琀愀爀琀攀搀 琀漀 挀漀洀瀀攀琀攀 眀椀琀栀 琀栀攀ഊAmerican coconut industry.
਀ഊThe quality of the answer suggests that further research needs to be
਀甀渀搀攀爀琀愀欀攀渀⸀ഊ
਀䈀攀愀爀ഊ
਀ഊDate: Sun, 7 Jun 1998 00:13:40 -0500
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 愀氀氀椀氀礀渀 愀琀 樀甀渀漀⸀挀漀洀 ⠀䰀夀一 䴀 倀䄀刀䬀䤀一匀伀一⤀ഊSubject: Re: SC - Jellies vs. aspics
਀ഊGenevia,
਀ഊ>> Would they have used the large amounts necessary to make jellies to do
਀琀栀椀猀 漀爀 眀漀甀氀搀 琀栀攀礀 栀愀瘀攀 瀀爀攀瀀愀爀攀搀 琀栀攀洀 猀漀洀攀 漀琀栀攀爀 眀愀礀 昀漀爀 猀琀漀爀愀最攀㼀 㰀㰀ഊ
਀吀栀愀琀✀猀 愀渀 椀渀琀攀爀攀猀琀椀渀最 猀瀀攀挀甀氀愀琀椀漀渀⸀  圀攀 欀渀漀眀 琀栀攀礀 搀爀椀攀搀 昀爀甀椀琀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 甀猀攀搀ഊthe dried in tarts, with meat, in fritters...all sorts of ways.  A little
਀樀愀洀 挀愀渀 最漀 愀 氀漀渀最 眀愀礀 愀渀搀 洀愀欀攀猀 戀漀琀栀 愀 搀攀氀椀挀椀漀甀猀 愀渀搀 愀 瀀爀攀琀琀礀 搀椀猀瀀氀愀礀⸀ഊIn keeping with the humoral theory, that sugar was the perfect food, to
਀甀猀攀 猀漀洀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀 猀眀攀攀琀 樀愀洀 眀漀甀氀搀 猀愀礀 瘀攀爀礀 渀椀挀攀 琀栀椀渀最猀 琀漀 礀漀甀爀 最甀攀猀琀猀Ⰰ 漀爀ഊto your family and household.  Of course, the humoral theory seems to be
਀昀愀氀氀椀渀最 愀眀愀礀 樀甀猀琀 愀猀 瀀爀攀猀攀爀瘀攀猀 愀爀攀 爀攀愀氀氀礀 挀漀洀椀渀最 椀渀⸀ഊ
਀䴀漀猀琀 漀昀 琀栀攀 渀漀戀氀攀猀 眀栀漀猀攀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀猀 眀攀 栀愀瘀攀 栀愀搀 氀愀爀最攀 攀猀琀愀琀攀猀Ⰰ 眀椀琀栀 漀爀挀栀愀爀搀猀ഊfull of fruit.  I don't think they'd find the use of enough fruit for
਀瀀爀攀猀攀爀瘀攀猀 琀漀 戀攀 漀甀琀 漀昀 欀攀攀瀀椀渀最 眀椀琀栀 最漀漀搀Ⰰ 攀挀漀渀漀洀椀挀 甀猀攀⸀  䄀昀琀攀爀 愀氀氀Ⰰ 愀ഊdried apple is one apple--how much jam or conserve would you get for
਀愀搀搀椀渀最 琀栀攀 眀愀琀攀爀 漀爀 樀甀椀挀攀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 猀甀最愀爀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 眀栀愀琀攀瘀攀爀 攀氀猀攀 礀漀甀 甀猀攀㼀  䄀渀搀ഊthere's the fact that some of the conserves--barberry, bugloss flowers,
਀爀漀猀攀洀愀爀礀 昀氀漀眀攀爀猀Ⰰ 爀漀猀攀 氀攀愀瘀攀猀ⴀⴀ愀氀氀 愀渀搀 洀漀爀攀 椀渀 䴀愀爀琀栀愀 圀愀猀栀椀渀最琀漀渀✀猀 䈀漀漀欀攀ഊof Cookery--would not be likely to be used in other ways.  I think that
਀漀渀挀攀 眀攀 栀愀搀 愀挀挀攀猀猀 琀漀 猀甀最愀爀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 搀攀瘀攀氀漀瀀攀搀 愀 琀栀漀爀漀甀最栀ⴀ最漀椀渀最 猀眀攀攀琀ⴀ琀漀漀琀栀Ⰰഊthe conserves, gellies, pastes, etc. were an established fact and the
਀挀漀猀琀 眀愀猀 挀漀渀猀椀搀攀爀攀搀 眀攀氀氀 眀漀爀琀栀 椀琀⸀  伀琀栀攀爀 漀瀀椀渀椀漀渀猀㼀ഊRegards,
਀ഊAllison
਀ഊ
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 匀甀渀Ⰰ 㜀 䨀甀渀 ㄀㤀㤀㠀 ㈀㄀㨀㔀㠀㨀㐀㐀 ⴀ　㔀　　ഊFrom: allilyn at juno.com (LYN M PARKINSON)
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 挀漀挀漀渀甀琀 洀椀氀欀ഊ
਀栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀猀甀渀猀椀琀攀⸀甀渀挀⸀攀搀甀⼀眀洀⼀瀀愀椀渀琀⼀愀甀琀栀⼀戀甀爀最欀洀愀椀爀⼀猀琀ⴀ樀漀栀渀⸀樀瀀最ഊ coconut trees?
਀ഊThe above URL takes you to a painting of St. John praying in a garden
਀甀渀搀攀爀 瀀愀氀洀ⴀ琀礀瀀攀 琀爀攀攀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 琀栀漀猀攀 挀攀爀琀愀椀渀氀礀 氀漀漀欀 氀椀欀攀 挀漀挀漀渀甀琀猀 栀愀渀最椀渀最 漀渀ഊthem.  Much too large to be an artist's idea of date palms, or fig trees,
਀漀爀 猀漀洀攀琀栀椀渀最 眀攀 欀渀漀眀 琀栀攀礀 欀渀攀眀 愀戀漀甀琀⸀  吀愀欀攀 愀 氀漀漀欀 愀渀搀 猀攀攀 眀栀愀琀 礀漀甀 愀氀氀ഊthink.  If a German artist painted them in the Renaissance, they had to
਀戀攀 欀渀漀眀渀Ⰰ 攀瘀攀渀 椀昀 眀攀 搀漀渀✀琀 昀椀渀搀 愀渀礀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀猀 昀漀爀 琀栀攀洀⸀ഊ
਀䄀氀氀椀猀漀渀ഊ
਀ഊDate: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 11:28:38 -0700 (PDT)
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 嘀椀挀欀椀 匀琀爀愀猀猀戀甀爀最 㰀琀愀氀琀漀猀 愀琀 瀀爀椀洀攀渀攀琀⸀挀漀洀㸀ഊSubject: Re: SC - Apple Butter Question
਀ഊ> Pear Butter? mmmmmmm.
਀㸀  ⸀ ⸀ ⸀愀渀搀 琀栀攀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀 椀猀㼀㼀㼀 ⠀椀洀瀀愀琀椀攀渀琀 昀漀漀琀ⴀ琀愀瀀瀀椀渀最⤀ഊ
਀䤀✀洀 渀漀琀 琀栀攀 瀀漀猀琀攀爀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 䤀 栀愀瘀攀 愀渀 愀渀猀眀攀爀 ⸀⸀⸀ 琀栀攀 猀愀洀攀 愀猀 琀栀攀 愀瀀瀀氀攀 戀甀琀琀攀爀Ⰰഊjust switch the fruits. That's what I've done for years with whatever
਀昀爀甀椀琀 栀愀瀀瀀攀渀猀 琀漀 戀攀 挀氀漀猀攀 琀漀 猀瀀漀椀氀椀渀最 ⠀甀渀氀攀猀猀 椀琀✀猀 戀愀渀愀渀愀猀Ⰰ 琀栀攀渀 椀琀✀猀ഊbread). I've happened on some WONDERFUL things such as canteloupe butter
਀愀渀搀 瀀甀洀瀀欀椀渀 戀甀琀琀攀爀℀ഊ
਀吀栀攀 眀愀礀 䤀 眀愀猀 琀愀甀最栀琀Ⰰ ∀戀甀琀琀攀爀猀∀ 愀爀攀 琀栀攀 戀愀猀椀挀愀氀氀礀 昀爀甀椀琀 愀渀搀 猀甀最愀爀Ⰰ 挀漀漀欀攀搀ഊdown to a pasty consistency. Just when the sugar begins to carmelize, it's
਀搀漀渀攀 ⠀琀栀愀琀✀猀 眀栀愀琀 最椀瘀攀猀 椀琀 琀栀攀 最爀攀愀琀 爀椀挀栀 戀爀漀眀渀 挀漀氀漀爀⤀⸀ 䌀漀氀搀 眀椀渀琀攀爀ഊmornings, warm fires, fresh bread, xxxx butter. Almost as good as warm
਀猀甀洀洀攀爀 洀漀爀渀椀渀最猀Ⰰ 猀甀渀渀礀 瀀漀爀挀栀Ⰰ 昀爀攀猀栀 戀爀攀愀搀 愀渀搀 砀砀砀砀 戀甀琀琀攀爀⸀  㨀ⴀ⤀ഊ
਀縀䴀愀攀搀戀ഊ
਀ഊDate: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 17:56:31 -0500
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀䐀攀挀欀攀爀Ⰰ 吀攀爀爀礀 䐀⸀∀ 㰀吀攀爀爀礀䐀 愀琀 䠀攀愀氀琀栀⸀匀琀愀琀攀⸀伀䬀⸀唀匀㸀ഊSubject: RE: SC - Apple Butter Update
਀ഊ> On Sat, 13 Jun 1998, Decker, Terry D. wrote:
਀㸀 㸀 匀椀渀挀攀 琀栀攀 挀栀椀攀昀 搀椀昀昀攀爀攀渀挀攀 戀攀琀眀攀攀渀 洀漀搀攀爀渀 愀瀀瀀氀攀猀愀甀挀攀 愀渀搀 洀漀搀攀爀渀 愀瀀瀀氀攀 戀甀琀琀攀爀ഊ> > is the amount of sugar used, being heavy handed with the honey might get you
਀㸀 㸀 愀瀀瀀氀攀 戀甀琀琀攀爀⸀ഊ>
਀㸀 䤀 栀愀瘀攀 愀 焀甀攀猀琀椀漀渀 漀渀 琀栀椀猀⸀ 匀椀渀挀攀 椀琀✀猀 琀栀攀 猀甀最愀爀 琀栀愀琀 猀漀爀琀 漀昀 挀愀爀洀攀氀椀稀攀猀ഊ> and creates the "butter", wouldn't using honey affect that?
਀㸀ഊ> ~Maedb
਀ഊThe full quote dealt with Appulmoy, a period dish.  The recipe gives no
਀焀甀愀渀琀椀琀椀攀猀Ⰰ 猀漀 椀琀 挀漀甀氀搀 戀攀 洀愀搀攀 眀椀琀栀 愀 氀椀琀琀氀攀 栀漀渀攀礀 漀爀 愀 氀漀琀 漀昀 栀漀渀攀礀⸀ഊSince honey can do something that looks a lot like carmelization, the recipe
਀洀椀最栀琀 瀀爀漀搀甀挀攀 猀漀洀攀琀栀椀渀最 猀椀洀椀氀愀爀 琀漀 愀瀀瀀氀攀 戀甀琀琀攀爀⸀  䤀 搀漀渀✀琀 欀渀漀眀Ⰰ 䤀 栀愀瘀攀渀✀琀ഊtried it, and I am not as experienced with this particular aspect of cooking
਀愀猀 猀漀洀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀 漀琀栀攀爀 瀀攀漀瀀氀攀 漀渀 琀栀攀 氀椀猀琀⸀ഊ
਀䤀渀 挀愀猀攀 礀漀甀 眀椀猀栀 琀漀 琀攀猀琀 琀栀攀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀㨀ഊ
਀䄀瀀瀀甀氀洀漀礀⸀  吀愀欀攀 愀瀀瀀氀攀猀 愀渀搀 猀攀攀琀栀攀 栀攀洀 椀渀 眀愀琀攀爀⸀  䐀爀愀眀攀 栀攀洀 琀栀甀爀最栀 愀 猀琀礀渀渀漀爀⸀ഊTake almande mylke and hony and floer of rys, safron, and powdor-fort, and
਀猀愀氀琀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 猀攀攀琀栀 椀琀 猀琀漀渀搀礀渀最⸀ഊ
਀ⴀ ⴀⴀ䘀漀爀洀攀 漀昀 䌀甀爀礀ഊ
਀䈀攀愀爀ഊ
਀ഊDate: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 21:45:34 EDT
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 䰀爀搀刀愀猀 愀琀 愀漀氀⸀挀漀洀ഊSubject: Re: SC - Apple Butter Update
਀ഊtaltos at primenet.com writes:
਀㰀㰀 䤀 栀愀瘀攀 愀 焀甀攀猀琀椀漀渀 漀渀 琀栀椀猀⸀ 匀椀渀挀攀 椀琀✀猀 琀栀攀 猀甀最愀爀 琀栀愀琀 猀漀爀琀 漀昀 挀愀爀洀攀氀椀稀攀猀ഊ and creates the "butter", wouldn't using honey affect that? >>
਀ഊActually the act of ridding the apples of excess water and concentrating the
਀瀀攀挀琀椀渀猀 挀爀攀愀琀攀猀 愀瀀瀀氀攀 戀甀琀琀攀爀 愀氀漀渀最 眀椀琀栀 琀栀攀 洀椀渀最氀椀渀最 漀昀 昀氀愀瘀漀爀猀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀ഊspices during the long slow cooking. I must disagree that apple butter is  the
਀猀愀洀攀 愀猀 愀瀀瀀氀攀 猀愀甀挀攀 攀砀挀攀瀀琀 昀漀爀 琀栀攀 猀甀最愀爀 挀漀渀琀攀渀琀⸀ 䄀瀀瀀氀攀 戀甀琀琀攀爀 挀愀渀 戀攀 洀愀搀攀ഊ(indeed, that is how I make mine) without any added sweetener.
਀ഊRas
਀ഊ
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 圀攀搀Ⰰ ㄀㠀 䨀甀渀 ㄀㤀㤀㜀 ㄀㜀㨀㔀㐀㨀㄀㜀 ⴀ　㔀　　ഊFrom: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 䄀瀀瀀氀攀 䈀甀琀琀攀爀 唀瀀搀愀琀攀ഊ
਀甀瀀猀砀搀氀猀 愀琀 漀欀眀愀礀⸀漀欀猀琀愀琀攀⸀攀搀甀 眀爀漀琀攀㨀ഊ> I have a question on this. Since it's the sugar that sort of carmelizes
਀㸀 愀渀搀 挀爀攀愀琀攀猀 琀栀攀 ∀戀甀琀琀攀爀∀Ⰰ 眀漀甀氀搀渀✀琀 甀猀椀渀最 栀漀渀攀礀 愀昀昀攀挀琀 琀栀愀琀㼀ഊ>
਀㸀 縀䴀愀攀搀戀ഊ>
਀㸀   圀栀攀渀 䤀 洀愀欀攀 愀瀀瀀氀攀 戀甀琀琀攀爀Ⰰ 䤀 猀椀洀洀攀爀 琀栀攀 洀愀猀栀攀搀 愀瀀瀀氀攀猀 甀渀琀椀氀 攀渀漀甀最栀 氀椀焀甀椀搀 椀猀ഊ>   cooked off to make the "butter."  Same technique as making tomato sauce or
਀㸀   瀀愀猀琀攀 昀爀漀洀 昀爀攀猀栀 琀漀洀愀琀漀攀猀⸀  䄀 瘀攀爀礀 氀漀眀 昀氀愀洀攀 猀栀漀甀氀搀 戀攀 甀猀攀搀 琀漀 欀攀攀瀀 琀栀攀ഊ>   sugar from carmelizing. If using honey, logic says a longer cooking time
਀㸀   眀漀甀氀搀 戀攀 渀攀挀攀猀猀愀爀礀Ⰰ 戀攀挀愀甀猀攀 栀漀渀攀礀 椀猀 洀漀爀攀 氀椀焀甀椀搀 琀栀愀渀 猀甀最愀爀⸀  䤀 栀愀瘀攀 渀漀琀ഊ>   tried sweetening with honey - yet! :) Leanna of Sparrowhaven
਀ഊFor what it's worth, apples brown whether you add sugar or not (and so
਀搀漀 瀀攀愀爀猀 愀渀搀 焀甀椀甀渀挀攀猀⤀⸀ 吀栀攀 愀瀀瀀氀攀猀 琀栀攀洀猀攀氀瘀攀猀 愀爀攀 漀砀椀搀椀稀椀渀最Ⰰ 愀渀搀 椀琀ഊshouldn't be caramelizing sugar that gives apple butter its
਀挀栀愀爀愀挀琀攀爀椀猀琀椀挀 戀爀漀眀渀⸀ 吀栀攀爀攀✀猀 渀漀琀栀椀渀最 琀漀 瀀爀攀瘀攀渀琀 琀栀攀 愀搀搀椀琀椀漀渀 漀昀 猀甀最愀爀Ⰰഊof course, caramelized or otherwise, but all the apple butter I've ever
਀猀攀攀渀 挀愀洀攀 昀爀漀洀 䰀漀爀搀 刀愀猀✀猀 渀攀挀欀 漀昀 琀栀攀 眀漀漀搀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 椀猀 洀愀搀攀 眀椀琀栀 愀瀀瀀氀攀猀ഊcooked down in apple cider, sans added sugar.
਀ഊThe reason apple butter is sort of creamy/pasty, rather than jelly-like,
਀椀猀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 挀栀攀洀椀挀愀氀 爀攀愀挀琀椀漀渀 琀栀愀琀 挀愀甀猀攀猀 瀀攀挀琀椀渀 琀漀 最攀氀氀 椀猀 渀漀琀ഊhappening. You'd be more likely to get a sort of brown apple jam if
਀猀甀最愀爀 椀渀 琀栀攀 瀀爀漀瀀漀爀琀椀漀渀猀 昀漀爀 樀攀氀氀椀攀猀 愀渀搀 瀀爀攀猀攀爀瘀攀猀 眀攀爀攀 愀搀搀攀搀⸀ഊ
਀䄀搀愀洀愀渀琀椀甀猀ഊ
਀ഊDate: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 01:35:39 EDT
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 欀漀爀爀椀渀⸀搀愀愀爀搀愀椀渀 愀琀 樀甀渀漀⸀挀漀洀 ⠀䬀漀爀爀椀渀 匀 䐀愀䄀爀搀愀椀渀⤀ഊSubject: SC - Re: Kitchener
਀ഊfrom Cariadoc's Miscellany, Copyright © by David Friedman, 1988, 1990,
਀㄀㤀㤀㈀⸀ഊ
਀        䌀甀猀欀礀渀漀氀攀猀 ⠀䔀渀最氀椀猀栀Ⰰ ㄀㐀琀栀 挀⸀⤀ഊ        Curye on Inglysch p. 52 (Diuersa Cibaria no. 45)
਀        䄀 洀攀琀攀 嬀琀栀崀 愀琀 椀猀 椀挀氀攀瀀攀搀 挀甀猀欀礀渀漀氀攀猀⸀ 䴀愀欀攀 愀 瀀愀猀琀 琀攀洀瀀爀攀搀 眀椀嬀琀栀崀ഊayren, & so[th] [th] en nim peoren & applen, figes & reysins, alemaundes
਀☀ 搀愀琀攀猀㬀 戀攀琀 愀洀 琀漀最攀搀攀爀攀 ☀ 搀漀 最漀搀 瀀漀甀搀爀攀 漀昀 最漀搀攀 猀瀀攀挀攀猀 眀椀嬀琀栀崀 椀渀渀攀渀⸀ ☀ഊin leynten make [th] i past wi[th] milke of alemaundes. & rolle [th] i
਀瀀愀猀琀 漀渀 愀 戀漀爀搀Ⰰ ☀ 猀漀嬀琀栀崀 嬀琀栀崀 攀渀 栀攀眀 栀椀琀 漀渀 洀漀渀椀 瀀攀爀琀椀攀猀Ⰰ ☀ 瘀挀栀攀 愀渀ഊpertie beo of [th] e leyn[th] e of a paume & an half & of [th] reovyngres
਀漀昀 戀爀攀搀攀⸀ ☀ 猀洀攀漀爀 嬀琀栀崀 礀 瀀愀猀琀 愀氀 漀昀 漀渀攀 搀漀氀攀Ⰰ ☀ 猀漀嬀琀栀崀 嬀琀栀崀 攀渀 搀漀 嬀琀栀崀 椀ഊfassure wi[th] innen. Vchan kake is portiooun. & so[th] [th] en veld
਀琀漀最攀搀攀爀攀 漀嬀琀栀崀 攀 稀攀漀氀甀攀 洀愀渀攀爀攀Ⰰ 愀猀攀 嬀琀栀崀 攀漀猀 昀甀最甀爀爀攀 椀猀 椀洀愀搀㨀 ☀ 猀漀嬀琀栀崀ഊ[th] e boille in veir water, & so[th] [th] en rost on an greudil; &
਀猀漀嬀琀栀崀 嬀琀栀崀 攀渀 愀搀爀攀猀猀攀⸀ഊ        Modernized English: A meat that is named cuskynoles. Make a paste
਀琀攀洀瀀攀爀攀搀 眀椀琀栀 攀最最猀Ⰰ ☀ 猀漀 琀栀攀渀 琀愀欀攀 瀀攀愀爀猀 ☀ 愀瀀瀀氀攀猀Ⰰ 昀椀最猀 ☀ 爀愀椀猀椀渀猀Ⰰഊalmonds & dates; beat them together & do good powder of good spices
਀眀椀琀栀椀渀⸀ ☀ 椀渀 䰀攀渀琀 洀愀欀攀 琀栀礀 瀀愀猀琀攀 眀椀琀栀 洀椀氀欀 漀昀 愀氀洀漀渀搀猀⸀ ☀ 爀漀氀氀 琀栀礀ഊpaste on a board, & so then hew it in many parts, & each part be of the
਀氀攀渀最琀栀 漀昀 愀 瀀愀氀洀 ☀ 愀 栀愀氀昀 ☀ 漀昀 琀栀爀攀攀 昀椀渀最攀爀猀 漀昀 戀爀攀愀搀琀栀⸀ ☀ 猀洀攀愀爀 琀栀礀ഊpaste all on one half, & so then do thy filling within. Each cake is a
਀瀀漀爀琀椀漀渀⸀ ☀ 猀漀 琀栀攀渀 昀漀氀搀 琀漀最攀琀栀攀爀 漀昀 琀栀攀 猀愀洀攀 洀愀渀渀攀爀Ⰰ 愀猀 琀栀椀猀 昀椀最甀爀攀 椀猀ഊmade: [see above] & so then boil in fair water, & so then roast on a
਀最爀椀搀搀氀攀㬀 ☀ 猀漀 琀栀攀渀 搀爀攀猀猀⸀ഊ        Filling:
਀        漀渀攀 爀椀瀀攀 瀀攀愀爀 ⠀㜀 漀稀⤀ഊ        one apple (Rome?) (7 oz)
਀        㐀 漀稀 昀椀最猀ഊ        4 oz raisins
਀        㐀 漀稀 眀栀漀氀攀Ⰰ 甀渀戀氀愀渀挀栀攀搀 愀氀洀漀渀搀猀ഊ        4 oz pitted dates
਀        ㄀ ㄀⼀㈀ 琀 挀椀渀渀愀洀漀渀ഊ        1 1/2 t nutmeg
਀        ㄀ 琀 挀氀漀瘀攀猀ഊ        1/2 t ginger
਀        圀愀猀栀 愀渀搀 挀漀爀攀 愀瀀瀀氀攀 愀渀搀 瀀攀愀爀 戀甀琀 搀漀 渀漀琀 瀀攀攀氀⸀ 䌀甀琀 昀椀最猀 椀渀琀漀 ㈀ 漀爀ഊ3 pieces each. Use a food processor or mortar and pestle to reduce the
਀椀渀最爀攀搀椀攀渀琀猀 琀漀 愀 甀渀椀昀漀爀洀 洀甀猀栀⸀ഊ        Pastry:
਀        ㄀ ㄀⼀㈀ 挀 昀氀漀甀爀ഊ        1/4 c water
਀        ㄀ 戀攀愀琀攀渀 攀最最ഊ        Stir cold water into flour, stir in egg, stir and knead until
਀猀洀漀漀琀栀⸀ 刀漀氀氀 漀甀琀 愀猀 琀眀漀 ㄀㈀∀砀㄀㔀∀ 猀栀攀攀琀猀⸀ 䌀甀琀 攀愀挀栀 猀栀攀攀琀 椀渀琀漀 ㄀　 㘀∀砀㌀∀ഊpieces. Spread 1 T of filling on one piece and put another piece over it,
਀洀愀欀椀渀最 愀 猀愀渀搀眀椀挀栀 漀昀 搀漀甀最栀Ⰰ 昀椀氀氀椀渀最Ⰰ 搀漀甀最栀⸀ 唀猀椀渀最 琀栀攀 戀愀挀欀 漀昀 愀 琀栀椀挀欀ഊknife, press the edges together to seal them, then press along the lines
਀猀栀漀眀渀 椀渀 琀栀攀 昀椀最甀爀攀Ⰰ 最椀瘀椀渀最 愀 㘀∀砀㌀∀ ∀挀愀欀攀∀ 洀愀搀攀 甀瀀 漀昀 昀椀昀琀攀攀渀 洀椀渀椀愀琀甀爀攀ഊfruit filled ravioli, joined at their edges. Boil about 4 minutes, then
਀戀爀漀椀氀 愀琀 愀 洀攀搀椀甀洀 搀椀猀琀愀渀挀攀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀 戀甀爀渀攀爀 愀戀漀甀琀 㐀 洀椀渀甀琀攀猀 愀 猀椀搀攀Ⰰഊwatching to be sure they do not burn.
਀ഊKorrin S. DaArdain
਀䬀椀琀挀栀攀渀 匀琀攀眀愀爀搀 漀昀 䠀漀甀猀攀栀漀氀搀 倀漀爀琀 䬀愀爀爀ഊKingdom of An Tir.
਀䬀漀爀爀椀渀⸀䐀愀䄀爀搀愀椀渀 愀琀 䨀甀渀漀⸀挀漀洀ഊ
਀ഊDate: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 14:28:22 -0600 (MDT)
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 䴀愀爀礀 䴀漀爀洀愀渀 㰀洀攀洀漀爀洀愀渀 愀琀 漀氀搀挀漀氀漀⸀挀漀洀㸀ഊSubject: Re: SC - meat in mincemeat
਀ഊOn Mon, 12 Oct 1998, Vicki Strassburg wrote:
਀㸀 䜀漀漀搀 最攀渀琀氀攀猀Ⰰ 琀栀椀猀 戀爀椀渀最猀 甀瀀 愀 焀甀攀猀琀椀漀渀 䤀 栀愀瘀攀 栀愀搀 攀瘀攀爀 猀椀渀挀攀 琀栀攀 礀攀愀爀 䤀ഊ> bought 50 pounds of plums with which to make plum pudding. Then I looked
਀㸀 愀琀 琀栀攀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀⸀ 䤀 氀漀挀愀琀攀搀 愀 琀漀琀愀氀 漀昀 㤀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀猀Ⰰ 爀愀渀最椀渀最 昀爀漀洀 洀漀搀攀爀渀 琀漀ഊ> early 1900's. Not one of them contained plums. Did plum pudding *ever*
਀㸀 栀愀瘀攀 瀀氀甀洀猀 椀渀 椀琀㼀ഊ> 
਀㸀 䴀愀攀搀戀ഊ
਀琀栀攀 琀攀爀洀 ∀瀀氀甀洀猀∀ ⠀愀猀 椀渀 猀甀最愀爀瀀氀甀洀猀Ⰰ 昀漀爀 攀砀愀洀瀀氀攀⤀ 琀攀渀搀猀 琀漀 洀攀愀渀 搀爀椀攀搀 昀爀甀椀琀ഊin general - raisins, currants, prunes, etc.
਀ഊelaina
਀ഊ
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 匀愀琀Ⰰ ㈀㜀 䘀攀戀 ㄀㤀㤀㤀 　㄀㨀㈀㈀㨀㌀㐀 ⴀ　　　　ഊFrom: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Nanna_R=F6gnvaldard=F3ttir?=" <nannar at isholf.is>
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 匀甀洀洀攀爀琀椀洀攀 䌀攀爀甀氀攀愀渀 䈀氀甀攀 匀愀甀挀攀ഊ
਀㸀䔀砀挀攀氀氀攀渀琀 焀甀漀琀攀⸀  䌀漀甀氀搀 礀漀甀 瀀氀攀愀猀攀 瀀爀漀瘀椀搀攀 琀栀攀 琀椀琀氀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀 眀漀爀欀㼀  䤀 搀漀渀✀琀ഊ>recognize the author.
਀ഊJohn Ayto, British, author of many reference works, mostly concerning the
਀漀爀椀最椀渀 漀昀 眀漀爀搀猀 愀渀搀 渀愀洀攀猀Ⰰ 氀椀欀攀 吀栀攀 䐀椀挀琀椀漀渀愀爀礀 漀昀 圀漀爀搀 伀爀椀最椀渀猀Ⰰ 吀栀攀 伀砀昀漀爀搀ഊDictionary of Slang, some translations from Middle English I believe, and
਀琀栀攀 眀漀爀欀 䤀됀洀 焀甀漀琀椀渀最 昀爀漀洀Ⰰ 䄀 䜀漀甀爀洀攀琀됀猀 䜀甀椀搀攀Ⰰ 眀栀椀挀栀 椀猀 洀漀猀琀氀礀 挀漀渀挀攀爀渀攀搀 眀椀琀栀ഊthe origin and development of food terms. A valuable and entertaining work
਀椀渀 洀礀 漀瀀椀渀椀漀渀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 漀渀攀 䤀됀瘀攀 洀愀搀攀 洀甀挀栀 甀猀攀 漀昀⸀ 䘀漀爀 猀漀洀攀 爀攀愀猀漀渀 椀琀 眀愀猀 攀愀爀氀椀攀爀ഊpublished as both The Diner´s Dictionary and The Glutton´s Glossary.
਀ഊNanna
਀ഊ
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 䘀爀椀Ⰰ ㈀㘀 䘀攀戀 ㄀㤀㤀㤀 ㄀㠀㨀㈀㄀㨀㔀㈀ ⴀ　㘀　　ഊFrom: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀䔀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 䐀爀椀攀搀 䌀甀爀爀愀渀琀猀ഊ
਀㸀 䴀✀氀漀爀搀 刀愀猀Ⰰ  䤀 愀洀 愀 氀椀琀琀氀攀 挀漀渀昀甀猀攀搀 栀攀爀攀 戀攀挀愀甀猀攀 䤀 琀栀漀甀最栀琀 挀甀爀爀愀渀琀猀 开眀攀爀攀开ഊ> dried.  How can one have dried currants then? :-)
਀㸀ഊ> I wonder if the currants we use in recipes in Britain also Zante raisins?
਀㸀ഊ> Also, where do sultanas fit into all of this?
਀㸀ഊ> Elysant
਀ഊCurrants which are Zante raisins are always dried.  Currants which are the
਀昀爀甀椀琀 漀昀 最攀渀甀猀 刀椀戀攀猀 洀愀礀 戀攀 昀爀攀猀栀 漀爀 搀爀椀攀搀⸀  䌀甀氀琀椀瘀愀琀椀漀渀 漀昀 刀椀戀攀猀 椀猀 氀椀洀椀琀攀搀ഊbecause they serve as a host for white-pine blister rust (Cronartium
਀爀椀戀椀挀漀氀愀⤀⸀  匀甀氀琀愀渀愀猀 愀爀攀 愀 猀洀愀氀氀 礀攀氀氀漀眀 猀攀攀搀氀攀猀猀 爀愀椀猀椀渀 漀爀椀最椀渀愀琀椀渀最 椀渀 䄀猀椀愀ഊMinor.
਀ഊBear
਀ഊ
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 匀甀渀Ⰰ 㜀 䴀愀爀 ㄀㤀㤀㤀 ㄀　㨀㌀㌀㨀㌀㌀ 䔀匀吀ഊFrom: Tollhase1 at aol.com
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ昀漀甀渀搀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀 愀瀀瀀氀攀 漀爀愀渀最攀 琀愀爀琀ഊ
਀圀攀渀琀 琀栀爀漀甀最栀 洀礀 猀琀甀昀昀⸀  吀栀攀 刀攀挀椀瀀攀 挀愀洀攀 昀爀漀洀 吀栀攀 䜀漀漀搀 䠀甀猀眀椀昀攀猀 䠀愀渀搀洀愀椀搀 昀漀爀ഊCookerie in her Kitchen (1588).  I originally found this recipe on the net.
਀吀栀攀 漀爀椀最椀渀愀氀 爀攀搀愀挀琀椀漀渀 椀猀 戀礀 䜀爀攀琀挀栀攀渀 䴀椀氀攀爀 ⠀䴀愀爀最愀爀攀琀ഊMacduibhshite)grm+ at andrew,cmu.edu
਀ഊfor a tarte of apples and orange pilles.  take your orenges and lay them in
਀眀愀琀攀爀 愀 搀愀礀 愀渀搀 愀 渀椀最栀琀Ⰰ 琀栀攀渀 猀攀攀琀栀 琀栀攀洀 椀渀 昀愀椀爀攀 眀愀琀攀爀 愀渀搀 栀漀渀攀礀 愀渀搀 氀攀琀ഊseeth till they be soft;  then let them soak in the sirrop a day and a night:
਀吀栀攀渀 琀愀欀攀 昀漀爀琀栀 愀渀搀 挀甀琀 琀栀攀洀 猀洀愀氀氀 愀渀搀 琀栀攀渀 洀愀欀攀 礀漀甀爀 琀愀爀琀 愀渀搀 猀攀愀猀漀渀 礀漀甀爀ഊapples with sugar, synamon and ginger and put  in a piece of buttar and lay a
਀挀漀甀爀猀攀 漀昀 愀瀀瀀氀攀猀 愀渀搀 戀攀琀眀攀攀渀 琀栀攀 猀愀洀攀 挀漀甀爀猀攀 漀昀 愀瀀瀀氀攀猀 愀 挀漀甀爀猀攀 漀昀 漀爀攀渀最攀猀 愀渀搀ഊso, course by course, and season your orenges as you seasoned your apples with
਀猀漀洀攀眀栀愀琀 洀漀爀攀 猀甀最愀爀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 氀愀礀 漀渀 琀栀攀 氀椀搀 愀渀搀 瀀甀琀 椀琀 椀渀 琀栀攀 漀瘀攀渀 愀渀搀 眀栀攀渀 椀琀 椀猀ഊalmost baked, take Rose water and sugar and boyle them together till it  be
਀猀漀洀攀眀栀愀琀 琀栀椀挀欀Ⰰ 琀栀攀渀 琀愀欀攀 漀甀琀 琀栀攀 吀愀爀琀⸀ 愀渀搀 琀愀欀攀 愀 昀攀愀琀栀攀爀 愀渀搀 猀瀀爀攀愀搀 琀栀攀ഊrose water and sugar on the lit and let it not burn.
਀ഊI am paraphrasing her redaction below:
਀ഊ9"  pie crust with lid.
਀㘀 洀攀搀椀甀洀 漀爀愀渀最攀猀⸀  䤀 甀猀攀搀 嘀愀氀攀渀挀椀愀 漀爀愀渀最攀猀Ⰰ 琀栀爀漀甀最栀 琀栀漀甀最栀 琀攀洀瀀氀攀 漀爀愀渀最攀猀Ⰰഊblood oranges, and Seville oranges should all work as well.  Both
਀䈀椀琀琀攀爀⠀猀攀瘀椀氀氀攀⤀ 愀渀搀 猀眀攀攀琀 漀爀愀渀最攀猀 眀攀爀攀 愀瘀愀椀氀愀戀氀攀 搀甀爀椀渀最 琀栀攀 ㄀㘀琀栀 挀⸀  䐀漀渀∀琀ഊuse Navel oranges: the skins are too thick.
਀ഊFour cups water
਀㄀ ㄀⼀㌀ 挀甀瀀 栀漀渀攀礀ഊ14 small Macintosh apples.  Any small cooking apple should do.
਀㄀ 挀甀瀀 猀甀最愀爀ഊ1 tsp. cinnamon
਀㄀⼀㈀ 琀猀瀀⸀ 最椀渀最攀爀ഊ2 Tbs. rosewater
਀㄀ 吀戀猀⸀ 猀甀最愀爀ഊ
਀匀漀愀欀 漀爀愀渀最攀猀 椀渀 眀愀琀攀爀 ㈀㐀 栀漀甀爀猀⸀  倀甀琀 栀漀渀攀礀 愀渀搀 眀愀琀攀爀 甀猀攀搀 琀漀 猀漀愀欀 漀爀愀渀最攀猀 琀漀ഊboil in a large sauce pan.  Simmer until skins are soft.  When soft, place
਀漀爀愀渀最攀猀Ⰰ 倀漀甀爀 猀礀爀甀瀀 漀瘀攀爀 漀爀愀渀最攀猀 愀渀搀 猀琀漀爀攀 昀漀爀 愀渀漀琀栀攀爀 ㈀㐀 栀漀甀爀猀⸀  䄀搀搀 眀愀琀攀爀ഊto completely cover oranges.
਀ഊWhen ready to bake.  Preheat oven to F 350.  Slice oranges and remove the
਀猀攀攀搀猀⸀  䤀昀 琀栀攀 猀礀爀甀瀀 栀愀猀 渀漀琀 挀漀洀瀀氀攀琀攀氀礀 猀愀琀甀爀愀琀攀搀 琀栀攀 爀椀渀搀猀Ⰰ 戀漀椀氀 琀栀攀 猀氀椀挀攀猀ഊin the syrup until saturated.  Chop the oranges into small pieces, and mix in
਀㄀⼀㌀ 挀甀瀀 猀甀最愀爀Ⰰ ㄀⼀㈀ 琀猀瀀⸀ 挀椀渀渀愀洀漀渀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 ㄀⼀㐀 琀猀瀀⸀ 最椀渀最攀爀⸀  倀攀攀氀Ⰰ 挀漀爀攀 愀渀搀 焀甀愀爀琀攀爀ഊapples, mix with remaining sugar, cinnamon and ginger.  Place layer of apples
਀愀琀 戀漀琀琀漀洀Ⰰ 琀栀攀渀 愀 氀愀礀攀爀 漀爀 漀爀愀渀最攀猀⸀  䌀漀渀琀椀渀甀攀 甀渀琀椀氀 昀甀氀氀⸀  倀甀琀 漀渀 氀椀搀Ⰰ 戀愀欀攀ഊfor one hour.
਀ഊApx 10 minutes prior to being done mix sugar and rosewater to make syrup and
਀瀀甀琀 漀渀 㔀 洀椀渀猀 瀀爀椀漀爀 琀漀 昀椀渀椀猀栀 戀愀欀椀渀最⸀ഊ
਀吀漀氀氀栀愀猀攀 挀漀洀洀攀渀琀猀㨀ഊ
਀䤀 昀漀甀渀搀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀椀猀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀 眀漀爀欀攀搀 焀甀椀琀攀 眀攀氀氀Ⰰ 䄀氀琀栀漀甀最栀 䤀 昀漀甀渀搀 琀栀愀琀 䤀 搀椀搀 椀渀搀攀攀搀ഊhave to boil the oranges to get them saturated.  Perhaps as she suggested, the
਀猀欀椀渀猀 眀攀爀攀 琀漀漀 琀栀椀挀欀⸀ഊ
਀䘀漀爀 昀攀愀猀琀 ⠀洀愀欀椀渀最 氀漀琀猀 漀昀 琀栀攀猀攀⤀ 䤀 瀀氀愀渀 漀渀 愀氀琀攀爀椀渀最 琀栀攀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀 猀氀椀最栀琀氀礀⸀  䤀ഊwill use Marmalade instead of boiling the oranges and season them with honey.
਀䤀 眀椀氀氀 挀甀琀 甀瀀 愀 挀漀甀瀀氀攀 漀昀 漀爀愀渀最攀猀 瀀攀爀 瀀椀攀 愀渀搀 洀椀砀 眀椀琀栀 琀栀攀 洀愀爀洀愀氀愀搀攀⸀  䤀 甀猀攀ഊpowder forte to taste.  That means probably a tablespoon or more.  I plan on
਀瀀爀攀愀猀猀攀洀戀氀椀渀最 琀栀攀洀 愀渀搀 琀栀攀渀 瘀愀挀甀甀洀 猀攀愀氀椀渀最 琀栀攀洀⸀  䈀愀欀攀 琀栀攀洀 漀渀 猀椀琀攀⸀  匀琀椀氀氀ഊfeel that the smell of fresh baking pies and bread always makes one hungry.
਀ഊLord Frederich Holstein der Tollhase.
਀ഊ
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 吀栀甀Ⰰ ㄀㔀 䄀瀀爀 ㄀㤀㤀㤀 ㄀㈀㨀㔀㄀㨀　㘀 䔀䐀吀ഊFrom: THLRenata at aol.com
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 焀甀攀爀礀㨀 䔀氀椀稀愀戀攀琀栀愀渀 樀愀洀猀ഊ
਀琀礀爀挀愀 愀琀 礀愀栀漀漀⸀挀漀洀 眀爀椀琀攀猀㨀ഊ<< One that caught my eye was a collection of "Elizabethan jellies" in
਀ 樀愀爀猀 漀渀 漀渀攀 猀栀攀氀昀⸀  吀栀攀礀 栀愀搀 ⠀愀猀 䤀 爀攀洀攀洀戀攀爀⤀ 䰀攀洀漀渀 䌀甀爀搀 愀渀搀 䠀漀渀攀礀Ⰰഊ Orange Curd, Quince and Rose Petal, and some others that I can't think
਀ 漀昀 爀椀最栀琀 渀漀眀⸀  伀渀 琀栀攀 氀愀戀攀氀Ⰰ 椀琀 最椀瘀攀猀 愀 ⴀ瘀攀爀礀ⴀ 戀爀椀攀昀 瀀猀攀甀搀漀ⴀ栀椀猀琀漀爀礀 漀昀ഊ the 16th century, and the item, such as (with quince) the Elizabethans
਀ 琀栀漀甀最栀琀 漀昀 琀栀攀 焀甀椀渀挀攀 愀猀 琀栀攀 昀爀甀椀琀 䄀搀愀洀 愀渀搀 䔀瘀攀 愀琀攀 椀渀 琀栀攀 䜀愀爀搀攀渀 漀昀ഊ Eden.
਀ഊ Now my question.  Has anyone tried these?  Are they truly Elizabethan?
਀ 䄀爀攀 琀栀攀猀攀 椀琀攀洀猀 琀栀愀琀 眀漀甀氀搀 戀攀 昀漀甀渀搀 漀渀 䔀氀椀稀愀戀攀琀栀✀猀 琀愀戀氀攀㼀㸀㸀ഊ
਀䰀攀洀漀渀 愀渀搀 伀爀愀渀最攀 䌀甀爀搀猀 愀爀攀Ⰰ 甀渀昀漀爀琀甀渀愀琀攀氀礀 ⠀戀攀挀愀甀猀攀 琀栀攀礀 愀爀攀 礀甀洀洀礀℀⤀Ⰰ 愀 ㄀㤀琀栀ഊcentury invention. Quices and rose petals were made into jam in Elizabethan
਀琀椀洀攀猀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 渀漀琀 䤀䤀刀䌀 琀漀最攀琀栀攀爀⸀  䘀爀甀椀琀猀 瀀爀攀猀攀爀瘀攀搀 椀渀 瘀愀爀椀漀甀猀 琀攀砀琀甀爀攀猀 椀渀 猀甀最愀爀ഊwere very popular in Elizabethan times.  I have a couple of articles in the
਀䘀氀漀爀椀氀攀最椀甀洀 ⠀搀椀搀 䤀 猀瀀攀氀氀 椀琀 爀椀最栀琀㼀⤀ 漀渀 琀栀椀猀 瘀攀爀礀 琀漀瀀椀挀⸀  䤀 琀栀椀渀欀 琀栀攀礀✀爀攀 椀渀ഊthe Sweets section.
਀ഊI've never tried the Cost Plus versions, 'cause my semi-local one only
਀挀愀爀爀椀攀猀 琀栀攀 䌀甀爀搀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 䤀 瀀爀攀昀攀爀 琀漀 最攀琀 洀礀 挀甀爀搀猀 愀琀 吀爀愀搀攀爀 䨀漀攀✀猀⸀ഊ
਀刀攀渀愀琀愀ഊ
਀ഊDate: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 18:49:43 -0000
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀㴀㼀椀猀漀ⴀ㠀㠀㔀㤀ⴀ㄀㼀儀㼀一愀渀渀愀开刀㴀䘀㘀最渀瘀愀氀搀愀爀搀㴀䘀㌀琀琀椀爀㼀㴀∀ 㰀渀愀渀渀愀爀 愀琀 椀猀栀漀氀昀⸀椀猀㸀ഊSubject: Re: SC - Tomatoes
਀ഊFrom: snowfire at mail.snet.net <snowfire at mail.snet.net>
਀㸀䤀✀洀 眀漀渀搀攀爀椀渀最 琀栀攀渀Ⰰ 椀昀 琀栀攀礀 挀愀氀氀攀搀 猀漀 洀愀渀礀 琀栀椀渀最猀 愀瀀瀀氀攀猀Ⰰ 椀昀 琀栀攀 眀漀爀搀ഊ>"apple" or it's equivalent in other languages originally had a broader
਀㸀洀攀愀渀椀渀最 氀椀欀攀 ∀爀漀甀渀搀 攀搀椀戀氀攀 琀栀椀渀最 琀栀愀琀 椀猀 瀀爀漀戀愀戀氀礀 愀 瘀攀最攀琀愀戀氀攀∀ 漀爀ഊ>something?
਀ഊYou are correct there. Most southern European languages do not, or did not
਀漀爀椀最椀渀愀氀氀礀 愀琀 氀攀愀猀琀Ⰰ 搀椀猀琀椀渀最甀椀猀栀 挀氀攀愀爀氀礀 戀攀琀眀攀攀渀 ∀愀瀀瀀氀攀∀ 愀渀搀 ∀昀爀甀椀琀∀⸀ 䴀攀氀漀渀ഊin ancient Greek meant both apple and fruit. The Latin word pomum (the
਀猀漀甀爀挀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀 䘀爀攀渀挀栀 眀漀爀搀 ∀瀀漀洀洀攀∀⤀ 愀氀猀漀 挀漀甀氀搀 洀攀愀渀 愀瀀瀀氀攀 漀爀 昀爀甀椀琀⸀ഊPomegranate, for instance, literally means "apple with many seeds" and in
਀琀栀攀 匀挀愀渀搀椀渀愀瘀椀愀渀 氀愀渀最甀愀最攀猀 椀琀 椀猀 猀琀椀氀氀 挀愀氀氀攀搀 最爀攀渀愀琀攀 愀瀀瀀氀攀 ⠀最爀愀渀愀琀攀瀀氀椀 椀渀ഊIcelandic). The German name for an orange literally means "apple from China"
਀⠀䄀瀀昀攀氀猀椀渀攀⤀ 愀渀搀 琀栀椀猀 栀愀猀 戀攀攀渀 挀愀爀爀椀攀搀 漀瘀攀爀 椀渀琀漀 琀栀攀 匀挀愀渀搀椀渀愀瘀椀愀渀 氀愀渀最甀愀最攀猀ഊalso.
਀ഊAnd in Iceland, where no fruits grew and none were imported, either, any
਀昀爀甀椀琀 眀愀猀 氀椀愀戀氀攀 琀漀 戀攀 挀愀氀氀攀搀 愀瀀瀀氀攀 ⴀ 椀琀 眀愀猀 瀀爀漀戀愀戀氀礀 琀栀攀 漀渀氀礀 昀爀甀椀琀 洀漀猀琀ഊpeople had even heard of but few had ever seen.
਀ഊNanna
਀ഊ
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 吀甀攀Ⰰ ㈀㔀 䴀愀礀 ㄀㤀㤀㤀 ㄀㄀㨀㌀㔀㨀㄀㤀 ⬀　㄀　　ഊFrom: "Oughton, Karin (GEIS, Tirlan)" <Karin.Oughton at geis.ge.com>
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀䔀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 䄀瀀瀀氀攀 戀爀攀攀搀猀㼀ഊ
਀㸀 䘀爀漀洀㨀 䠀䤀䌀䬀匀Ⰰ 䴀䔀䰀䤀匀匀䄀 嬀匀䴀吀倀㨀䠀䤀䌀䬀匀开䴀 愀琀 挀愀猀愀⸀最漀瘀⸀愀甀崀ഊ> Some friends of mine have recently bought a property/farm in rural Victoria,
਀㸀 䄀甀猀琀爀愀氀椀愀⸀  吀栀攀礀 猀攀渀琀 琀栀攀 昀漀氀氀漀眀椀渀最 爀攀焀甀攀猀琀 昀漀爀 椀渀昀漀爀洀愀琀椀漀渀 漀渀 ∀瀀攀爀椀漀搀∀ഊ> apple species.  Can anyone here supply further info or suggest some
਀㸀 愀瘀攀渀甀攀猀 漀昀 爀攀猀攀愀爀挀栀 昀漀爀 琀栀攀洀㼀ഊ>
਀㸀 䴀攀氀椀漀爀愀⸀ഊ>
਀㸀 㸀 ⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀഊ> > From:       Kim & Ian Stanley-Eyles[SMTP:heathen at tpg.com.au]
਀㸀 㸀 吀漀㨀         䴀攀氀椀漀爀愀 ☀ 䐀爀愀欀攀ഊ> >
਀㸀 㸀 䤀渀 琀栀攀 昀甀爀琀栀攀爀愀渀挀攀 漀昀 漀甀爀 爀甀爀愀氀 ☀ 洀攀搀椀愀攀瘀愀氀 愀挀琀椀瘀椀琀椀攀猀Ⰰ 眀攀 愀爀攀 琀栀椀渀欀椀渀最ഊ> > of planting some apple trees in the orchard from our period (or
਀㸀 㸀 琀栀攀爀攀愀戀漀甀琀猀⤀ 愀渀搀 愀猀欀 椀昀 礀漀甀 栀愀瘀攀 愀渀礀 椀渀昀漀爀洀愀琀椀漀渀 漀渀 琀栀攀猀攀⸀ഊ> >
਀㸀 㸀 䄀甀琀甀洀渀 倀攀爀洀愀椀渀 猀礀渀 匀甀洀洀攀爀 倀攀爀洀愀椀渀 氀愀琀攀 ㄀㔀　　✀猀 䔀渀最氀愀渀搀ഊ> > Court Pendu Plat syn Wise Apple plus others pre-1500 Europe
਀㸀 㸀 䐀攀瘀漀渀猀栀椀爀攀 儀甀愀爀爀攀渀搀攀渀 瀀爀攀ⴀ㄀㘀㜀㠀 䔀渀最氀愀渀搀 瀀漀猀猀椀戀氀礀 昀爀漀洀 䘀爀愀渀挀攀ഊ> > Fenouillet Gris syn Carraway Russet 1608 France
਀㸀 㸀 䜀漀氀搀攀渀 䠀愀爀瘀攀礀 猀礀渀 䈀爀愀渀搀礀 䄀瀀瀀氀攀 ㄀㘀　　✀猀 䔀渀最氀愀渀搀 ⠀䠀攀爀琀猀⸀⤀ഊ> > Gravenstein possibly Schleswig-Holstein pre-1667 possibly Italy
਀㸀 㸀 䤀猀猀愀挀 一攀眀琀漀渀✀猀 吀爀攀攀 ⠀漀爀椀最椀渀愀氀 琀爀攀攀 甀渀欀渀漀眀渀⤀ 挀⸀㄀㘀㘀　 䔀渀最氀愀渀搀 ⠀䰀椀渀挀猀⸀⤀ഊ> > London Pippin syn Five Crown 1580 England
਀䤀 栀愀瘀攀 琀栀攀 瀀攀爀昀攀挀琀 愀渀猀眀攀爀 昀漀爀 礀漀甀Ⰰ 䄀一䐀 椀琀 欀攀攀瀀猀 椀琀 椀渀 琀栀攀 昀愀洀椀氀礀 㬀 ⤀ 䴀礀ഊfather in law was the director for the Brogdale Trust ( a charity) , which
਀栀漀氀搀 琀栀攀 唀䬀 最攀渀攀 戀愀渀欀猀 昀漀爀 愀瀀瀀氀攀猀Ⰰ 瀀攀愀爀猀Ⰰ 瀀氀甀洀猀Ⰰ 挀栀攀爀爀椀攀猀Ⰰ 瘀椀渀攀猀 攀琀挀 攀琀挀ഊetc....
਀ഊGerry said he had something like 4500 different varieties of apple trees on
਀猀椀琀攀⸀ 吀栀攀礀 挀愀渀 瀀爀漀瘀椀搀攀 椀渀昀漀爀洀愀琀椀漀渀Ⰰ 猀攀洀椀渀愀爀猀Ⰰ 爀漀漀琀 猀琀漀挀欀 ⴀ 礀漀甀 渀愀洀攀 椀琀⸀ 吀栀攀礀ഊhave a web site at http://www.brogdale.org.uk/  - they run a mail order
਀猀攀爀瘀椀挀攀 攀琀挀⸀ 䤀 搀漀渀✀琀 欀渀漀眀 愀戀漀甀琀 琀栀攀 氀攀最愀氀椀琀椀攀猀 漀昀 椀洀瀀漀爀琀椀渀最 猀琀漀挀欀 椀渀琀漀ഊAustralia, but I'm sure they can help. I recommend just browsing through
਀琀栀攀椀爀 洀愀椀氀 漀爀搀攀爀 猀攀爀瘀椀挀攀 ⸀⸀⸀⸀⸀⸀⸀ഊ
਀䄀渀搀 愀猀 愀渀 愀猀椀搀攀 ⴀ 椀昀 愀渀礀 漀渀攀 椀猀 氀漀漀欀椀渀最 昀漀爀 愀渀 椀渀琀攀爀攀猀琀椀渀最 瀀氀甀洀 琀漀 瀀氀愀渀琀Ⰰഊthe "transparent gage" gets my vote for the most bizarre fruit (hopeless
਀昀漀爀 猀琀漀爀愀最攀 琀栀漀甀最栀 ⤀ ⴀ 椀琀 昀漀爀洀猀 琀栀椀猀 戀攀愀甀琀椀昀甀氀 栀甀最攀 昀爀甀椀琀 眀栀椀挀栀 椀猀ഊtransparent - when the sun shines through you can see the stone in it etc,
਀愀渀搀 眀栀攀渀 礀漀甀 戀椀琀攀Ⰰ 椀琀 樀甀猀琀 戀甀爀猀琀猀 椀渀 礀漀甀爀 洀漀甀琀栀 眀椀琀栀 愀渀 攀砀瀀氀漀猀椀漀渀 漀昀ഊflavour.......have lots of wipes on hand :)
਀ഊKarin
਀ഊ
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 吀栀甀Ⰰ ㈀㈀ 䨀甀氀 ㄀㤀㤀㤀 ㈀㌀㨀㄀㠀㨀　㄀ 䔀䐀吀ഊFrom: THLRenata at aol.com
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 䔀氀椀渀漀爀 䘀攀琀琀椀瀀氀愀挀攀✀猀 䨀愀洀 刀攀挀椀瀀攀ഊ
਀䔀氀椀渀漀爀 䘀攀琀琀椀瀀氀愀挀攀✀猀 刀攀挀攀椀瀀琀 䈀漀漀欀 栀愀猀 愀 眀漀渀搀攀爀昀甀氀 樀愀洀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀 ⠀瀀愀最攀 ㄀㈀㠀 昀漀爀ഊthose who own the book):
਀ഊTo Preserve Plums or Gooseberries
਀吀愀欀攀 琀漀 攀瘀攀爀礀 瀀漀甀渀搀 漀昀 瀀氀甀洀猀 愀 瀀漀甀渀搀 漀昀 猀甀最愀爀Ⰰ 琀栀攀渀 戀攀愀琀 椀琀 猀洀愀氀Ⰰ ☀ 瀀甀琀 猀漀ഊmuch water to it as  will wet, then boyle till it bee sugar againe, then put
਀椀渀 琀栀攀 瀀氀甀洀猀Ⰰ ☀ 氀攀琀 琀栀攀洀 戀漀椀氀攀 瘀攀爀礀 猀漀昀琀氀椀攀Ⰰ 琀椀氀氀 琀栀攀礀 戀攀 搀漀漀渀攀Ⰰ 琀栀攀渀 眀栀攀渀ഊthey bee cold put them up, if they begin to grow then set them where fireis
਀椀渀 愀 挀甀瀀戀漀愀爀搀㬀 礀漀甀 洀愀礀 搀漀攀 爀攀猀瀀椀猀 琀栀椀猀 眀愀礀 ☀ 最漀漀猀攀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 礀漀甀 洀甀猀琀 戀漀礀氀攀ഊthem verie soft , & not put the up till they bee cold, & likewise may
਀䌀栀攀爀爀椀攀猀 戀攀攀 搀漀漀渀攀 愀猀 礀漀甀爀 最漀漀猀攀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 ☀ 爀攀猀瀀椀猀⸀ഊ
਀䠀椀氀愀爀礀 匀瀀甀爀氀椀渀最 栀愀猀 爀攀搀愀挀琀攀搀 琀栀攀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀㨀ഊ
਀䴀漀椀猀琀攀渀 琀栀攀 猀甀最愀爀 眀椀琀栀 愀猀 氀椀琀琀氀攀 眀愀琀攀爀 愀猀 瀀漀猀猀椀戀氀攀Ⰰ 猀愀礀 愀 焀甀愀爀琀攀爀 琀漀 栀愀氀昀 愀ഊpint per pound, put it in a large thick-bottomed pan, and stir it over the
਀最攀渀琀氀攀猀琀 瀀漀猀猀椀戀氀攀 栀攀愀琀 眀椀琀栀漀甀琀 戀漀椀氀椀渀最 甀渀琀椀氀 椀琀 椀猀 搀椀猀猀漀氀瘀攀搀⸀ ∀䈀漀礀氀攀 琀椀氀氀 椀琀ഊbee sugar againe" means boil the syrup hard until it reaches what cooks of
਀琀栀攀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 挀愀氀氀 ∀挀愀渀搀椀攀 栀攀椀最栀琀∀ ⠀㈀㐀　 搀攀最爀攀攀猀 䘀Ⰰ ㄀㄀㔀 搀攀最爀攀攀猀 䌀 漀渀 愀 猀甀最愀爀ഊthermometer), when it will chrystalize if you beat it.
਀ഊI (this is Renata again) have made this several times with a variety of fruit
਀愀渀搀 椀琀✀猀 猀挀愀爀礀 戀甀琀 椀琀 眀漀爀欀猀⸀ 夀漀甀 攀渀搀 甀瀀 眀椀琀栀 愀 瀀愀渀 昀甀氀氀 漀昀 栀漀琀 爀漀挀欀 挀愀渀搀礀Ⰰഊthen just dump your fruit in and let it sit over the lowest possible heat.
਀吀栀攀 樀甀椀挀攀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀 昀爀甀椀琀 爀攀ⴀ洀攀氀琀猀 琀栀攀 猀甀最愀爀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 渀攀攀搀猀 愀渀 漀挀挀愀猀猀椀漀渀愀氀 猀琀椀爀ഊand/or chipping sugar away from the sides of the pan.
਀ഊBy the time the sugar has totally remelted, the jam is ready to set (test
਀琀栀椀猀 戀礀 瀀甀琀琀椀渀最 愀 搀爀漀瀀 漀渀 愀 挀漀氀搀 瀀氀愀琀攀 愀渀搀 瀀甀猀栀椀渀最 椀琀 ⴀⴀ 椀昀 椀琀 昀漀爀洀猀 愀 猀欀椀渀ഊthat wrinkles, it's ready to set) without ever boiling the fruit, which
਀椀洀瀀爀漀瘀攀猀 琀栀攀 昀氀愀瘀漀爀⸀ഊ
਀吀栀攀 爀攀猀甀氀琀椀渀最 樀愀洀 椀猀 眀漀渀搀攀爀昀甀氀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 愀 栀漀琀 眀愀琀攀爀 戀愀琀栀 椀猀 渀漀琀 渀攀挀攀猀猀愀爀礀Ⰰ 愀猀 琀栀攀ഊhigh sugar content keeps the jam from spoiling.
਀ഊRenata
਀ഊ
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 匀甀渀Ⰰ ㈀㈀ 䄀甀最 ㄀㤀㤀㤀 ㄀㐀㨀㈀㜀㨀㄀㘀 ⴀ　㔀　　ഊFrom: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀䔀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 䈀攀爀爀椀攀猀ഊ
਀㸀 䄀 昀爀椀攀渀搀 栀攀爀攀 椀渀 匀眀攀搀攀渀 眀漀渀搀攀爀猀 椀昀 爀栀甀戀愀爀戀Ⰰ 最漀漀猀攀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 愀渀搀 爀愀猀瀀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀ഊ> are period - does anybody know?
਀㸀ഊ> Lady Uta, Nordmark
਀ഊRhubarb (Rhuem rhubarbarum, et al.) was known in Antiquity.  The word
਀爀栀甀戀愀爀戀攀 眀愀猀 昀椀爀猀琀 甀猀攀搀 椀渀 䔀渀最氀椀猀栀 愀戀漀甀琀 ㄀㌀㤀　⸀  吀栀攀爀攀 愀爀攀 猀攀瘀攀爀愀氀 洀攀洀戀攀爀猀 漀昀ഊthe genus Rhuem hiding under the rhubarb name.  Gooseberries (Ribes
਀甀瘀愀ⴀ挀爀椀猀瀀愀⤀ 愀爀攀 䔀甀爀漀瀀攀愀渀 愀渀搀 栀愀瘀攀 戀攀攀渀 甀猀攀搀 猀椀渀挀攀 琀栀攀 一攀漀氀椀琀栀椀挀⸀ഊRaspberries are both New and Old World.  The basic European stock is Rubus
਀椀搀攀愀甀猀⸀ഊ
਀䈀攀愀爀ഊ
਀ഊDate: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 19:15:04 -0500
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀䐀攀挀欀攀爀Ⰰ 吀攀爀爀礀 䐀⸀∀ 㰀吀攀爀爀礀䐀 愀琀 䠀攀愀氀琀栀⸀匀琀愀琀攀⸀伀䬀⸀唀匀㸀ഊSubject: RE: SC - Berries
਀ഊ> Bear wrote:
਀㸀 㸀刀栀甀戀愀爀戀 ⠀刀栀甀攀洀 爀栀甀戀愀爀戀愀爀甀洀Ⰰ 攀琀 愀氀⸀⤀ 眀愀猀 欀渀漀眀渀 椀渀 䄀渀琀椀焀甀椀琀礀⸀  吀栀攀 眀漀爀搀ഊ> >rhubarbe was first used in English about 1390.
਀㸀ഊ> But was it used as food? Every source I´ve consulted says the roots were
਀㸀 瘀愀氀甀攀搀 昀漀爀 琀栀攀椀爀 洀攀搀椀挀愀氀 甀猀攀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 琀栀攀 猀琀愀氀欀猀 洀愀礀戀攀 甀猀攀搀 昀漀爀 洀愀欀椀渀最 爀栀甀戀愀爀戀ഊ> syrup, again for medical uses, but the stalks weren´t used as food until
਀㸀 洀甀挀栀 氀愀琀攀爀 ⴀ 渀漀琀 甀渀琀椀氀 愀戀漀甀琀 ㄀㠀　　 椀渀 䔀渀最氀愀渀搀Ⰰ 攀瘀攀渀 氀愀琀攀爀 椀渀 猀漀洀攀 漀琀栀攀爀ഊ> countries.
਀㸀ഊ> Nanna
਀ഊGerard suggested that the leaves be eaten like spinach.  However this is not
਀爀攀挀漀洀洀攀渀搀攀搀 愀猀 琀栀攀 氀攀愀瘀攀猀 挀漀渀琀愀椀渀 挀漀渀挀攀渀琀爀愀琀攀搀 漀砀愀氀椀挀 愀渀搀 挀愀渀 戀攀 氀攀琀栀愀氀⸀  䤀琀ഊalso bodes ill for finding any rhubarb recipes beyond those for purgative.
਀伀昀 挀漀甀爀猀攀 琀栀椀猀 眀愀猀渀✀琀 椀渀 琀栀攀 渀漀琀攀猀 䤀 眀愀猀 甀猀椀渀最 眀椀琀栀 洀礀 爀攀昀攀爀攀渀挀攀 氀椀戀爀愀爀礀 昀愀爀ഊaway.
਀ഊAccording to Waverly Root, rhubarb may have been known in China as early as
਀㈀㜀　　 䈀⸀䌀⸀䔀⸀ 愀猀 愀 洀攀搀椀挀椀渀攀Ⰰ 眀栀椀挀栀 眀漀甀氀搀 最椀瘀攀 愀 昀攀眀 琀栀漀甀猀愀渀搀 礀攀愀爀猀 琀漀 琀甀爀渀 椀琀ഊinto food.  But he gives no references for Asiatic use as a foodstuff.
਀ഊRoot also suggests that rhubarb may have been eaten in the Middle East,
਀戀愀猀攀搀 漀渀 愀 ㄀㌀琀栀 焀甀漀琀攀 戀礀 䤀戀渀 攀氀ⴀ䈀攀椀琀栀愀爀 琀栀愀琀 爀栀甀戀愀爀戀 眀愀猀 ∀瘀攀爀礀 挀漀洀洀漀渀 椀渀ഊSyria and Persia . . . like chard, it has fairly thick stalks."
਀䌀椀爀挀甀椀琀漀甀猀氀礀Ⰰ 刀漀漀琀 瀀漀椀渀琀猀 漀甀琀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 瀀氀愀渀琀 䤀戀渀 攀氀ⴀ䈀攀椀琀栀愀爀 挀漀洀洀攀渀琀攀搀 甀瀀漀渀ഊis Rhuem ribes, the currant rhubarb (because it tastes like currants).
਀ഊSo, no Medieval rhubarb pie for Europe.
਀ഊBear
਀ഊ
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 䴀漀渀Ⰰ 㘀 匀攀瀀 ㄀㤀㤀㤀 ㄀㐀㨀　㄀㨀㈀㄀ 䔀䐀吀ഊFrom: LrdRas at aol.com
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 䴀攀搀氀愀爀猀 愀渀搀 匀漀爀戀 䄀瀀瀀氀攀猀 ഊ
਀猀栀攀氀琀漀渀猀 愀琀 挀漀渀琀攀爀爀愀⸀挀漀洀 眀爀椀琀攀猀㨀ഊ<< Can anyone who isn't horticulturally impaired explain what these are and whether they're still used today? >>
਀ഊSorb apples apparently are a variety that may have been grown by the Wends, a
਀匀氀愀瘀椀挀 瀀攀漀瀀氀攀 琀栀愀琀 椀渀栀愀戀椀琀攀搀 䔀愀猀琀 䜀攀爀洀愀渀礀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 䤀 栀愀瘀攀 戀攀攀渀 甀渀愀戀氀攀 琀漀 瘀攀爀椀昀礀ഊthis info. Given the word is most likely a basis for sorb, I would venture to
਀最甀攀猀猀 琀栀愀琀 椀琀 愀氀猀漀 椀猀 愀 琀礀瀀攀 漀昀 挀爀愀戀 愀瀀瀀氀攀⸀ഊ
਀刀愀猀ഊ
਀ഊDate: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 17:06:06 -0500
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀䐀攀挀欀攀爀Ⰰ 吀攀爀爀礀 䐀⸀∀ 㰀吀攀爀爀礀䐀 愀琀 䠀攀愀氀琀栀⸀匀琀愀琀攀⸀伀䬀⸀唀匀㸀ഊSubject: RE: SC - Medlars and Sorb Apples
਀ഊSorbs are the fruit of several different trees of the genus Sorbus in the
਀爀漀猀攀 昀愀洀椀氀礀⸀  匀⸀ 搀漀洀攀猀琀椀挀愀 愀渀搀 匀⸀ 琀漀爀洀椀渀愀氀椀猀 愀爀攀 挀漀洀洀漀渀氀礀 爀攀昀攀爀爀攀搀 琀漀 愀ഊservice trees and have brown fruit.  S. aucuparia is a rowan and has
਀漀爀愀渀最攀ⴀ爀攀搀 戀攀爀爀椀攀猀⸀  䤀 琀栀椀渀欀 琀栀攀 猀漀爀戀 愀瀀瀀氀攀 洀愀礀 戀攀 琀栀攀 昀爀甀椀琀 漀昀 琀栀攀 猀攀爀瘀椀挀攀ഊtree.
਀ഊBear
਀ഊ
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 䘀爀椀Ⰰ 　㄀ 伀挀琀 ㄀㤀㤀㤀 ㄀㐀㨀㌀㐀㨀㌀㔀 ⴀ　㔀　　ഊFrom: Jenn/Yana <jdmiller2 at students.wisc.edu>
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 倀椀挀欀氀攀搀 䌀栀攀爀爀椀攀猀 愀爀攀 刀甀猀猀椀愀渀㼀ഊ
਀䈀漀渀渀攀 漀昀 吀爀愀焀甀愀椀爀 眀爀漀琀攀㨀ഊ>earlier this summer I posted re: my experience making pickled cherries and
਀㸀洀愀欀椀渀最 愀 搀爀椀渀欀 猀礀爀甀瀀 眀椀琀栀 琀栀攀 氀攀昀琀漀瘀攀爀 瀀椀挀欀氀攀搀 瘀椀渀攀最愀爀⸀  匀漀洀攀漀渀攀 猀琀愀琀攀搀 琀栀愀琀ഊ>the pickled cherries were a traditional dish in Russia. I'd like more
਀㸀椀渀昀漀爀洀愀琀椀漀渀 漀渀 琀栀愀琀 椀昀 琀栀攀 瀀攀爀猀漀渀 椀猀 猀琀椀氀氀 愀爀漀甀渀搀Ⰰ 漀爀 椀昀 愀渀礀漀渀攀 攀氀猀攀 栀愀猀ഊ>heard this.
਀ഊThat would have been me!  I know that cherries were preserved in syrups and
਀椀渀 欀瘀愀猀 椀渀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 䤀✀洀 猀琀椀氀氀 氀漀漀欀椀渀最 昀漀爀 愀 瘀椀渀攀最愀爀ⴀ琀礀瀀攀 瀀爀攀猀攀爀瘀椀渀最ഊtechnique.
਀ഊFrom the _Domostroi_ (period sections only):
਀ഊp152 Cherries in syrup
਀ഊp154 Preserve pears and apples in syrup and in kvas, berry or cranberry
਀樀甀椀挀攀⸀  䜀攀渀攀爀愀氀 愀搀洀漀渀椀猀栀洀攀渀琀 琀漀 瀀爀攀猀攀爀瘀攀 昀爀甀椀琀ⴀⴀ昀愀氀氀攀渀 愀瀀瀀氀攀猀Ⰰ 挀甀挀甀洀戀攀爀猀Ⰰഊmelons, and the like. (This could include cherries)
਀ഊp155 "...put nutmeg in one little bag, cloves in a second, beneficial herbs
਀椀渀 愀 琀栀椀爀搀⸀⸀⸀眀愀爀洀 琀栀攀猀攀 漀渀 琀栀攀 猀琀漀瘀攀 愀渀搀 洀椀砀 琀栀攀洀 眀椀琀栀 琀栀攀 洀攀愀搀⸀⸀⸀洀椀砀ഊcherry juice with warmed wine and put it in a jug, combine raspberry juice
਀愀渀搀 眀椀渀攀 椀渀 愀 猀攀挀漀渀搀 樀甀最Ⰰ 愀渀搀 愀搀搀 眀椀渀攀 琀漀 瀀爀攀瀀愀爀攀搀 猀礀爀甀瀀 椀渀 愀 琀栀椀爀搀⸀ഊ(okay, this only involves cherry juice.)
਀ഊp176 Preserve apples, pears, cherries and berries in brine (either a salt
਀漀爀 愀 猀甀最愀爀 猀漀氀甀琀椀漀渀Ⰰ 倀漀甀渀挀礀 猀愀礀猀 椀琀 眀愀猀 瀀爀漀戀愀戀氀礀 愀 栀漀渀攀礀 愀渀搀 眀愀琀攀爀 猀漀氀✀渀Ⰰ 䤀ഊguess because of the previous mention of cherries in syrup)
਀ഊSo I haven't found anything yet with cherries in a vinegar-pickling
਀猀漀氀甀琀椀漀渀Ⰰ 樀甀猀琀 猀眀攀攀琀 戀爀椀渀攀 漀爀 猀礀爀甀瀀 愀渀搀 瀀漀猀猀椀戀氀礀 愀 猀愀氀琀 戀爀椀渀攀⸀  䈀甀琀 愀猀 琀栀攀ഊprevious poster said, pickled cherries _are_ a _traditional_  food.
਀ഊYana (Ilyana Barsova)  jdmiller2 at students.wisc.edu
਀ഊ
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 吀甀攀Ⰰ 　㔀 伀挀琀 ㄀㤀㤀㤀 ㈀㄀㨀　㄀㨀㈀㌀ 䜀䴀吀ഊFrom: "Bonne of Traquair" <oftraquair at hotmail.com>
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 刀攀㨀 昀爀甀椀琀 瘀椀渀攀最愀爀 搀爀椀渀欀猀ഊ
਀䄀漀椀昀攀 猀愀椀搀㨀ഊ>My brother has some documentation that is colonial in nature. let me
਀㸀挀漀渀琀愀挀琀 栀椀洀 愀渀搀 猀攀攀 椀昀 栀攀 栀愀猀 猀漀洀攀琀栀椀渀最 攀愀爀氀椀攀爀⸀ 䠀攀 最漀琀 椀渀琀攀爀攀猀琀攀搀 昀爀漀洀 洀礀ഊ>experiments, and it's snowballed. Truth is, I've been doing this so long
਀㸀琀栀愀琀 䤀✀瘀攀 昀漀爀最漀琀琀攀渀 洀礀 猀漀甀爀挀攀猀⸀ 䄀 洀椀渀搀 椀猀 愀 琀攀爀爀椀戀氀攀 琀栀椀渀最 琀漀 眀愀猀琀攀⸀ഊ
਀䤀 樀甀猀琀 昀漀甀渀搀 琀栀椀猀 氀愀猀琀 渀椀最栀琀Ⰰ 椀琀✀猀 樀甀猀琀 愀 洀攀渀琀椀漀渀Ⰰ 渀漀琀 愀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀⸀  䐀漀攀猀ഊanyone know if there a facsimile of the Fettiplace book?
਀ഊ"Elinor Fettiplace's Receipt Book - Elizabethan Country House Cooking",
਀䠀椀氀愀爀礀 匀瀀甀爀氀椀渀最Ⰰ 瀀最 ㈀　㤀ഊ"Lady Fettiplace made a liquor from equal parts white wine and white wine
਀瘀椀渀攀最愀爀Ⰰ 戀漀椀氀攀搀 琀漀最攀琀栀攀爀 眀椀琀栀 猀甀最愀爀Ⰰ 椀渀 眀栀椀挀栀 ✀吀漀 欀攀攀瀀攀 䈀愀爀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 愀氀氀 琀栀攀ഊyeare'."
਀ഊBarberries are defined on page 199:
਀∀䈀愀爀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 眀栀椀挀栀Ⰰ 愀挀挀漀爀搀椀渀最 琀漀攀 䜀爀椀攀瘀攀✀猀 䠀攀爀戀愀氀Ⰰ 愀爀攀 猀漀 猀漀甀爀 攀瘀攀渀 戀椀爀搀猀ഊdraw the line at eating them, were often added to low-acid drab-coloured
਀昀爀甀椀琀猀 氀椀欀攀 瀀攀愀爀猀 漀爀 瀀攀攀氀攀搀 焀甀椀渀挀攀猀 眀栀攀爀攀 愀 洀漀搀攀爀渀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀 眀漀甀氀搀 爀攀挀漀洀洀攀渀搀ഊlemon or redcurrant juice.  ... They are a pretty fruit, tiny, drop-shaped,
਀挀漀爀愀氀ⴀ挀漀氀漀甀爀攀搀Ⰰ 琀甀爀渀椀渀最 愀 挀氀攀愀爀 爀甀戀礀 爀攀搀 眀栀攀渀 挀漀漀欀攀搀㬀 ⸀⸀⸀∀ഊ
਀猀栀攀 最漀攀猀 漀渀 琀漀 猀愀礀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 眀椀氀搀 漀渀攀猀 ⴀ 䈀攀爀戀攀爀椀猀 瘀甀氀最愀爀椀猀ⴀ栀愀瘀攀 戀攀攀渀 愀氀洀漀猀琀ഊentirely eradicated in this century in England in an attempt to wipe out the
਀瀀愀爀愀猀椀琀椀挀 爀甀猀琀 昀甀渀最甀猀Ⰰ 漀爀 眀栀攀愀琀ⴀ洀椀氀搀攀眀Ⰰ 琀漀 眀栀椀挀栀 椀琀 愀挀琀猀 愀猀 栀漀猀琀⸀  匀栀攀ഊsuggests that one plant a row of ornamental Berberis Wilsonae.
਀ഊOn page 208 she suggests that the American cranberry was liked by the
਀挀漀氀漀渀椀猀琀猀 戀攀挀愀甀猀攀 椀琀 爀攀洀椀渀搀攀搀 琀栀攀洀 漀昀 琀栀攀 栀椀最栀氀礀 瀀爀椀稀攀搀 戀愀爀戀攀爀爀礀⸀ഊ
਀匀漀Ⰰ 琀栀愀琀 瀀氀愀挀攀猀 琀栀攀 最攀渀攀爀愀氀 椀搀攀愀 漀昀 猀漀甀爀 戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 瀀椀挀欀氀攀搀 椀渀 愀 瘀椀渀攀最愀爀 猀礀爀甀瀀ഊin England about 1600 and that's the closest I've come to the idea of
਀瀀椀挀欀氀攀搀 昀爀甀椀琀 猀礀爀甀瀀 愀猀 愀 搀爀椀渀欀 挀漀渀挀攀渀琀爀愀琀攀⸀  䠀漀眀 甀猀攀昀甀氀 琀栀愀琀 椀猀 搀攀瀀攀渀搀猀 甀瀀漀渀ഊyour own opinions, but I know what I'm experimenting on when cranberries
਀猀栀漀眀 甀瀀 椀渀 琀栀攀 猀琀漀爀攀猀⸀ഊ
਀㸀伀漀瀀猀Ⰰ 樀甀猀琀 爀攀洀攀洀戀攀爀攀搀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 䴀椀猀挀攀氀氀愀渀礀 ⠀䌀愀爀椀愀搀漀挀⤀ 栀愀猀 猀攀瘀攀爀愀氀 甀渀搀攀爀ഊ>Sekanjubin, one of which it also states can be made from any sort of fruit.
਀ഊI'll have to check that again, I must have missed it.  The Florilegium file
਀漀渀 樀愀氀愀戀猀 栀愀猀 洀攀渀琀椀漀渀 漀昀 琀栀攀猀攀 搀爀椀渀欀猀Ⰰ 琀栀愀琀✀猀 眀栀愀琀 猀琀愀爀琀攀搀 洀攀 漀昀昀⸀  䈀甀琀ഊthere's not even vague documentation.
਀ഊI did place my cherry syrup and sekanjabin and for that matter, the pickled
਀挀栀攀爀爀椀攀猀 琀栀攀洀猀攀氀瘀攀猀 漀甀琀 愀琀 琀栀攀 倀攀愀爀氀✀猀 爀攀瘀椀攀眀⸀ 䴀礀 搀漀挀甀洀攀渀琀愀琀椀漀渀 眀愀猀ഊbasically a statement that I'd seen it mentioned but hadn't firmly pinned it
਀搀漀眀渀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 䤀 眀爀漀琀攀 搀漀眀渀 琀栀攀 䐀愀爀愀 最漀氀搀猀琀攀椀渀✀猀 猀琀愀琀攀洀攀渀琀 昀爀漀洀 ✀䄀 吀愀猀琀攀 漀昀ഊRussia' re: Peter the Great bringing the idea of pickled fruit back from
਀䠀漀氀氀愀渀搀⸀  伀渀攀 倀攀愀爀氀Ⰰ 愀挀琀甀愀氀氀礀 洀愀搀攀 愀 挀漀洀洀攀渀琀 漀渀 琀栀攀 瀀愀瀀攀爀 琀栀愀琀 眀愀猀 氀攀昀琀 昀漀爀ഊthat purpose.  No criticism of the lack of documentation, just a comment
਀琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 椀搀攀愀 漀昀 搀爀椀渀欀椀渀最 瘀椀渀攀最愀爀 戀漀琀栀攀爀攀搀 栀椀洀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 愀挀琀甀愀氀氀礀 戀漀琀栀 琀愀猀琀攀搀ഊpretty good.
਀ഊThe disappointing part is that the cherry syrup is all gone now. :-(
਀ഊBonne
਀ഊ
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 匀甀渀Ⰰ ㄀㜀 伀挀琀 ㄀㤀㤀㤀 　㤀㨀㌀㤀㨀㄀㠀 ⴀ　　　　ഊFrom: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Nanna_R=F6gnvaldard=F3ttir?=" <nannar at isholf.is>
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 䄀爀攀 䬀甀洀焀甀愀琀猀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀ഊ
਀䰀漀爀椀砀 眀爀漀琀攀㨀ഊ>Firstly, are they period and, if so, how would they have been used in period?
਀ഊThey came from China and seem to have been known in Europe in the late 17th
਀挀攀渀琀甀爀礀㬀 琀栀攀 渀愀洀攀 眀愀猀 琀栀攀渀 猀瀀攀氀氀攀搀 挀愀洀焀甀椀琀 漀爀 挀甀洀焀甀愀琀 ⠀昀爀漀洀 䌀愀渀琀漀渀攀猀攀 欀愀洀ഊkwat, golden orange). I´m not sure if they were actually brought to Europe
਀琀栀攀渀 漀爀 椀昀 琀栀攀礀 眀攀爀攀 漀渀氀礀 欀渀漀眀渀 昀爀漀洀 琀爀愀瘀攀氀漀最甀攀猀⸀ഊ
਀一愀渀渀愀ഊ
਀ഊDate: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 06:58:35 -0400
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 倀栀椀氀椀瀀 ☀ 匀甀猀愀渀 吀爀漀礀 㰀琀爀漀礀 愀琀 愀猀愀渀⸀挀漀洀㸀ഊSubject: Re: SC - Are apricots period:  was Period Kinds of apples/Pears
਀ഊLorix wrote:
਀㸀 䤀 栀愀搀 琀栀漀甀最栀琀 琀栀愀琀 䤀 栀愀搀 猀攀攀渀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀猀 昀漀爀 愀瀀爀椀挀漀琀猀 琀栀漀甀最栀 㨀ⴀ⤀ഊ
਀夀漀甀 瀀爀漀戀愀戀氀礀 栀愀瘀攀⸀ 吀栀攀爀攀 愀爀攀 䄀瀀椀挀椀愀渀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀猀 挀愀氀氀椀渀最 昀漀爀 琀栀攀洀Ⰰ 愀猀 䤀ഊrecall, and quite a few Elizabethan English preparations for them. I
਀眀漀渀搀攀爀 椀昀 瀀攀爀栀愀瀀猀 琀栀攀礀 搀椀搀渀✀琀 琀爀愀瘀攀氀 眀攀氀氀 攀渀漀甀最栀 琀漀 攀渀搀 甀瀀 椀渀 一漀爀琀栀攀爀渀ഊEurope in the Middle Ages, and so not in a lot of Middle English recipes...
਀ഊAdamantius
਀ഊ
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 吀栀甀Ⰰ ㈀㠀 伀挀琀 ㄀㤀㤀㤀 　㤀㨀㐀㐀㨀㔀㔀 ⴀ　㔀　　ഊFrom: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 䄀爀攀 愀瀀爀椀挀漀琀猀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀㨀  眀愀猀 倀攀爀椀漀搀 䬀椀渀搀猀 漀昀 愀瀀瀀氀攀猀⼀倀攀愀爀猀ഊ
਀䄀琀 㘀㨀㔀㠀 䄀䴀 ⴀ　㐀　　 ㄀　⼀㈀㠀⼀㤀㤀Ⰰ 倀栀椀氀椀瀀 ☀ 匀甀猀愀渀 吀爀漀礀 眀爀漀琀攀㨀ഊ>Lorix wrote:
਀㸀 㸀 䤀 栀愀搀 琀栀漀甀最栀琀 琀栀愀琀 䤀 栀愀搀 猀攀攀渀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀猀 昀漀爀 愀瀀爀椀挀漀琀猀 琀栀漀甀最栀 㨀ⴀ⤀ഊ>
਀㸀夀漀甀 瀀爀漀戀愀戀氀礀 栀愀瘀攀⸀ 吀栀攀爀攀 愀爀攀 䄀瀀椀挀椀愀渀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀猀 挀愀氀氀椀渀最 昀漀爀 琀栀攀洀Ⰰ 愀猀 䤀ഊ>recall, and quite a few Elizabethan English preparations for them.
਀ഊAnd medieval Islamic recipes, of course. Mishmishiya, from
਀愀氀ⴀ䈀愀最栀搀愀搀椀Ⰰ 椀猀 漀渀攀 眀攀 愀爀攀 昀漀渀搀 漀昀⸀ഊ
਀䐀愀瘀椀搀⼀䌀愀爀椀愀搀漀挀ഊhttp://www.best.com/~ddfr/
਀ഊ
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 䘀爀椀Ⰰ ㈀㤀 伀挀琀 ㄀㤀㤀㤀 ㄀㌀㨀㌀㜀㨀㄀㌀ ⴀ　㐀　　ഊFrom: Angie Malone <alm4 at cornell.edu>
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 倀攀爀椀漀搀 䬀椀渀搀猀 漀昀 愀瀀瀀氀攀猀⼀倀攀愀爀猀ഊ
਀䤀 栀愀瘀攀 愀 挀漀瀀礀 漀昀 愀 瘀漀氀甀洀攀 漀昀 琀眀漀 瀀愀洀瀀栀氀攀琀猀Ⰰ 挀愀氀氀攀搀 琀栀攀 䘀爀甀椀琀 嘀愀爀椀攀琀礀ഊRegister 1580-1600, by Stuart Peachey.  Vol 1 is Apples - Mulberry, Vol. 2
਀椀猀 一攀挀琀愀爀椀渀猀ⴀ圀愀氀渀甀琀猀⸀ഊ
਀  匀漀洀攀 瘀愀爀椀攀琀椀攀猀 琀栀愀琀 䤀 栀愀瘀攀 猀攀攀渀 昀漀爀 猀愀氀攀 椀渀 挀甀爀爀攀渀琀 琀椀洀攀猀 琀栀愀琀 愀爀攀 氀椀猀琀攀搀ഊin this book are:
਀ഊ   Pippins. (there were many different kinds of Pippins--red, yellow and
਀最爀攀攀渀⤀ഊ
਀   䜀爀攀攀渀椀渀最猀ഊ
਀䤀 琀栀椀渀欀 戀漀琀栀 漀昀 琀栀攀猀攀 挀愀渀 戀攀 甀猀攀搀 愀猀 挀漀漀欀椀渀最 愀瀀瀀氀攀猀⸀  䤀 欀渀漀眀 礀漀甀 愀爀攀 愀氀氀ഊwondering where I saw these.  I have to admit it beats the daylights out of
਀洀攀Ⰰ 猀椀渀挀攀 眀攀 猀瀀攀渀搀 琀栀攀 昀愀氀氀 瀀椀挀欀椀渀最 甀瀀 氀愀爀最攀 焀甀愀渀琀椀琀椀攀猀 漀昀 ✀猀琀漀爀愀戀氀攀猀 昀漀爀ഊwinter' in a bunch of different places.  I would imagine it was one of
਀琀栀漀猀攀 昀爀甀椀琀 猀琀愀渀搀 猀漀爀琀 漀昀 瀀氀愀挀攀猀 琀栀愀琀 愀爀攀 挀甀爀爀攀渀琀氀礀 猀攀氀氀椀渀最 氀愀爀最攀ഊquantities of apples, pumpkins, squash, and onions.  I would check with any
਀氀漀挀愀氀 漀爀挀栀愀爀搀猀 椀渀 礀漀甀爀 愀爀攀愀Ⰰ 椀昀 琀栀攀爀攀 愀爀攀 愀渀礀⸀ഊ
਀䤀 搀椀搀 愀 猀攀愀爀挀栀 漀渀 琀栀攀 渀攀琀 昀漀爀 䜀爀攀攀渀椀渀最 愀瀀瀀氀攀猀 愀渀搀 昀漀甀渀搀 漀甀琀 琀栀攀爀攀 椀猀 愀 瀀愀最攀ഊdedicated the  the Rhode Island greening which was 'created in 1796'.
਀䠀攀爀攀✀猀 琀栀攀 甀爀氀 昀漀爀 愀 戀攀琀琀攀爀 搀攀猀挀爀椀瀀琀椀漀渀㨀ഊhttp://www.food.epicurious.com/c_play/c04_victual/apples/rhodeisland.html
਀ഊI also searched for pippin here's the description in which they are
਀搀攀猀挀爀椀戀攀搀 愀猀 愀渀 愀氀氀 瀀甀爀瀀漀猀攀 愀瀀瀀氀攀㨀ഊ
਀栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀眀眀眀⸀昀漀漀搀⸀攀瀀椀挀甀爀椀漀甀猀⸀挀漀洀⼀挀开瀀氀愀礀⼀挀　㐀开瘀椀挀琀甀愀氀⼀愀瀀瀀氀攀猀⼀瀀椀瀀瀀椀渀⸀栀琀洀氀ഊ
਀䤀 昀漀爀最漀琀 琀漀 氀漀漀欀 礀攀猀琀攀爀搀愀礀 眀栀攀渀 眀攀 瘀椀猀椀琀攀搀 伀挀栀✀猀 伀爀挀栀愀爀搀 椀渀 圀愀爀眀椀挀欀Ⰰ 一夀 ⠀眀攀ഊwent there for Staymen Winesaps).
਀ഊI have to admit I hardly ever buy apples in the supermarket.  The only ones
਀䤀 攀瘀攀爀 戀甀礀 椀渀 琀栀攀 猀甀瀀攀爀洀愀爀欀攀琀 愀爀攀 䈀爀愀攀戀甀爀渀 愀瀀瀀氀攀猀Ⰰ 琀栀攀礀 愀爀攀 挀甀爀爀攀渀琀氀礀 洀礀ഊfavorite eating apple, although the winesap was very crisp and slightly
਀猀漀甀爀 眀栀椀挀栀 眀愀猀 爀攀愀氀氀礀 琀愀猀琀礀⸀ഊ
਀䄀猀 昀愀爀 愀猀 倀攀愀爀猀 最漀Ⰰ 刀甀猀猀攀琀猀 眀愀猀 琀栀攀 漀渀氀礀 洀漀搀攀爀渀 倀攀愀爀 渀愀洀攀 琀栀愀琀 䤀 爀攀洀攀洀戀攀爀⸀ഊ
਀䄀渀最攀氀椀渀攀ഊ
਀ഊDate: Fri, 12 May 2000 22:30:00 -0400
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 一椀挀欀 匀愀猀猀漀 㰀最爀椀稀氀礀 愀琀 洀椀渀搀猀瀀爀椀渀最⸀挀漀洀㸀ഊSubject: Re: SC - Pomegranate seed
਀ഊDeacon C Swepston wrote:
਀㰀㰀㰀匀一䤀倀㸀㸀㸀  吀栀攀 昀爀甀椀琀 眀愀猀 眀漀渀搀攀爀昀甀氀 昀爀攀猀栀⸀  䴀甀挀栀 洀漀爀攀 猀栀愀爀瀀⼀琀愀爀琀 琀栀愀渀ഊ> the store bought variety and these aren't red.  They're more
਀㸀 礀攀氀氀漀眀椀猀栀⼀漀爀愀渀最椀猀栀⸀ഊ>                    Melusine
਀ഊMayhaps you have a bitter variety while the store sells a sweet
਀瘀愀爀椀攀琀礀⸀  倀氀愀琀椀渀愀 ⠀㼀⤀ 漀爀 猀漀洀攀漀渀攀 爀攀昀攀爀猀 琀漀 琀眀漀 漀爀 琀栀爀攀攀 琀礀瀀攀猀 漀昀ഊpomegranates, including sweet and sour varieties.  Could be worth
਀挀栀攀挀欀椀渀最 漀甀琀㬀 琀栀攀礀✀氀氀 栀愀瘀攀 搀椀昀昀攀爀攀渀琀 甀猀攀猀 䤀 猀甀猀瀀攀挀琀⸀ഊ
਀渀椀挀挀漀氀漀 搀椀昀爀愀渀挀攀猀挀漀ഊ
਀ഊDate: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 10:54:13 -0400 (EDT)
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 䨀攀渀渀攀 䠀攀椀猀攀 㰀樀攀渀渀攀 愀琀 琀甀氀最攀礀⸀戀爀漀眀猀攀爀⸀渀攀琀㸀ഊSubject: SC - LIIWEEK:  Fruits of Warm Climates
਀ഊThis reference work may or may not be of some use to those whose interests
਀氀椀攀 椀渀 琀栀攀 猀漀甀琀栀攀爀渀 栀愀氀昀 漀昀 䔀甀爀漀瀀攀㨀ഊ
਀刀攀瘀椀攀眀攀搀 椀渀 䰀䤀䤀圀䔀䔀䬀㨀ഊ"    Fruits of Warm Climates -
਀    栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀眀眀眀⸀栀漀爀琀⸀瀀甀爀搀甀攀⸀攀搀甀⼀渀攀眀挀爀漀瀀⼀洀漀爀琀漀渀⼀椀渀搀攀砀⸀栀琀洀氀 ഊ        This is the full text of a print title. Species are listed by
਀        挀漀洀洀漀渀 渀愀洀攀 甀渀搀攀爀 琀栀攀 戀漀琀愀渀椀挀愀氀 昀愀洀椀氀礀 渀愀洀攀⸀ 䔀愀挀栀ഊ        entry includes description, illustration, origin and
਀        搀椀猀琀爀椀戀甀琀椀漀渀Ⰰ 瘀愀爀椀攀琀椀攀猀Ⰰ 挀氀椀洀愀琀攀Ⰰ 猀漀椀氀Ⰰ 瀀爀漀瀀愀最愀琀椀漀渀Ⰰ 挀甀氀琀甀爀攀Ⰰഊ        pests, diseases, harvesting, life of plantation, storage,
਀        昀漀漀搀 甀猀攀猀Ⰰ 琀漀砀椀挀椀琀礀Ⰰ 漀琀栀攀爀 甀猀攀猀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 漀爀渀愀洀攀渀琀愀氀 瘀愀氀甀攀⸀ 䈀礀ഊ        Julia F. Morton, originally published in 1987."
਀ഊJadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise	      jenne at tulgey.browser.net
਀ഊ
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 䴀漀渀Ⰰ ㄀㘀 伀挀琀 ㈀　　　 ㄀㈀㨀㔀㈀㨀㈀㤀 ⴀ　㔀　　ഊFrom: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀䔀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 最甀愀瘀愀ഊ
਀吀栀攀 漀爀椀最椀渀 漀昀 琀栀攀 渀愀洀攀 最甀愀瘀愀 椀猀 琀栀攀 眀漀爀搀 最甀愀礀愀戀愀Ⰰ 眀栀椀挀栀 䤀 琀栀椀渀欀 椀猀 攀椀琀栀攀爀ഊCarib or Arawak, suggesting that the origin is further south than the
਀䈀愀栀愀洀愀猀⸀ ഊ
਀圀栀椀氀攀 最甀愀瘀愀猀 愀爀攀 挀漀洀洀攀爀挀椀愀氀氀礀 最爀漀眀渀 椀渀 䘀氀漀爀椀搀愀 愀渀搀 䌀愀氀椀昀漀爀渀椀愀Ⰰ 䤀 搀漀渀✀琀ഊbelieve they are native to either area.
਀ഊIf the guava made an early debut, it is probably recorded by Gonzales
਀䘀攀爀渀愀渀搀漀 搀攀 伀瘀椀攀搀漀 礀 嘀愀氀搀攀稀 椀渀 栀椀猀 䠀椀猀琀漀爀椀愀 最攀渀攀爀愀氀 礀 渀愀琀甀爀愀氀 搀攀 氀愀猀 䤀渀搀椀愀猀ⰀഊIslas y Tierra-Firme del Mar Oceano originally published in Toledo in 1526.
਀吀栀攀爀攀 椀猀 愀渀 攀愀爀氀礀 ㈀　琀栀 䌀攀渀琀甀爀礀 匀瀀愀渀椀猀栀 攀搀椀琀椀漀渀 漀昀 琀栀攀 戀漀漀欀 愀渀搀 琀栀攀爀攀 眀愀猀ഊsupposedly an English translation done in the mid 1980's.
਀ഊCome to think of it, the guava may be mentioned in the Diario of Christopher
਀䌀漀氀甀洀戀甀猀⸀  䤀✀氀氀 栀愀瘀攀 琀漀 挀栀攀挀欀 眀栀攀渀 䤀 最攀琀 栀漀洀攀⸀ഊ
਀䈀攀愀爀ഊ
਀㸀 䈀攀愀爀 眀爀漀琀攀 椀渀 爀攀猀瀀漀渀猀攀 琀漀 伀氀眀攀渀㨀ഊ> 
਀㸀 㸀䜀甀愀瘀愀 椀猀 愀 琀爀漀瀀椀挀愀氀 一攀眀 圀漀爀氀搀 昀爀甀椀琀 昀漀甀渀搀 椀渀 琀栀攀 䌀愀爀椀戀戀攀愀渀  椀猀氀愀渀搀猀⸀  匀漀Ⰰ 椀琀ഊ> >is possible that it may have been used sometime after October, 1492.
਀㸀 ഊ> Would it possibly be mentioned in the Lucayos cookbook from the
਀㸀 䈀愀栀愀洀愀猀㼀 䤀 搀漀渀✀琀 愀挀琀甀愀氀氀礀 爀攀洀攀洀戀攀爀 爀攀愀搀椀渀最 椀琀猀 渀愀洀攀 琀栀攀爀攀Ⰰ 戀甀琀ഊ> I've not sat down and closely examined every page nor verified
਀㸀 琀栀攀 瘀攀爀愀挀椀琀礀 漀昀 琀栀攀 戀漀漀欀 椀琀猀攀氀昀⸀ 䤀琀 洀椀最栀琀 戀攀 眀漀爀琀栀 愀 氀漀漀欀Ⰰ 琀栀漀甀最栀⸀ഊ> 
਀㸀 䤀愀猀洀椀渀ഊ
਀ഊDate: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 20:42:38 +0100
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 吀䜀 㰀最氀漀渀椀渀最 愀琀 䴀愀椀氀攀爀⸀唀渀椀ⴀ䴀愀爀戀甀爀最⸀䐀䔀㸀ഊSubject: Re: SC - guava
਀ഊ<< If the guava made an early debut, it is probably recorded by Gonzales
਀䘀攀爀渀愀渀搀漀 搀攀 伀瘀椀攀搀漀 礀 嘀愀氀搀攀稀 椀渀 栀椀猀 䠀椀猀琀漀爀椀愀 最攀渀攀爀愀氀 礀 渀愀琀甀爀愀氀 搀攀 氀愀猀ഊIndias, Islas y Tierra-Firme del Mar Oceano originally published in
਀吀漀氀攀搀漀 椀渀 ㄀㔀㈀㘀⸀ 㸀㸀 ⠀䈀攀愀爀⤀ഊ
਀䜀攀漀爀最 䘀爀椀攀搀攀爀椀挀椀Ⰰ 椀渀 栀椀猀 ∀䄀洀攀爀椀欀愀渀椀猀琀椀猀挀栀攀猀 圂였爀琀攀爀戀甀挀栀∀Ⰰ 最椀瘀攀猀 猀攀瘀攀爀愀氀ഊquotes from this and other works of Oviedo y Valdes ("la guayaba, es muy
਀氀椀渀搀愀 昀爀甀琀愀 礀 愀瀀攀琀椀琀漀猀愀∀⤀ 愀渀搀 昀爀漀洀 瘀愀爀椀漀甀猀 漀琀栀攀爀 攀愀爀氀礀 猀漀甀爀挀攀猀 昀爀漀洀 ㄀㔀㈀　ഊonwards. According to Friederici, the origin is with the "Insel-Aruaks,
਀䤀渀猀攀氀ⴀ 甀⸀ 䘀攀猀琀氀愀渀搀ⴀ䬀愀爀愀椀戀攀渀Ⰰ 吀甀瀀椀猀∀Ⰰ 琀栀攀渀 琀栀攀 匀瀀愀渀椀愀爀搀猀 猀瀀爀攀愀搀 琀栀攀 昀爀甀椀琀ഊand the word from there in other places (specified in some detail on p.
਀㈀㠀㌀⤀⸀ഊ
਀吀栀漀洀愀猀ഊ
਀ഊDate: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 14:12:57 -0500
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀䐀攀挀欀攀爀Ⰰ 吀攀爀爀礀 䐀⸀∀ 㰀吀攀爀爀礀䐀 愀琀 䠀攀愀氀琀栀⸀匀琀愀琀攀⸀伀䬀⸀唀匀㸀ഊSubject: RE: SC - guava
਀ഊThe 1520 date would be coincident with the early exploratory voyages along
਀琀栀攀 䈀爀愀稀椀氀椀愀渀 挀漀愀猀琀 ⠀䌀愀戀爀愀氀 椀渀 ㄀㔀　　 愀渀搀 䌀漀爀爀攀愀 椀渀 ㄀㔀　㤀⤀⸀  吀栀攀 䄀爀愀眀愀欀猀ഊinhabited an area from the Guiana coast through the Greater Antilles while
਀琀栀攀 吀甀瀀椀猀 椀渀栀愀戀椀琀 琀栀攀 䰀漀眀攀爀 䄀洀愀稀漀渀 䈀愀猀椀渀⸀  䤀昀 椀琀 眀愀猀 琀栀攀 匀瀀愀渀椀猀栀 眀栀漀 猀瀀爀攀愀搀ഊthe guava, it is more likely the fruit came from the Arawaks than the Tupis.
਀ഊBear
਀ഊ> and from various other early sources from 1520
਀㸀 漀渀眀愀爀搀猀⸀ 䄀挀挀漀爀搀椀渀最 琀漀 䘀爀椀攀搀攀爀椀挀椀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 漀爀椀最椀渀 椀猀 眀椀琀栀 琀栀攀 ∀䤀渀猀攀氀ⴀ䄀爀甀愀欀猀Ⰰഊ> Insel- u. Festland-Karaiben, Tupis", then the Spaniards spread the fruit
਀㸀 愀渀搀 琀栀攀 眀漀爀搀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀爀攀 椀渀 漀琀栀攀爀 瀀氀愀挀攀猀 ⠀猀瀀攀挀椀昀椀攀搀 椀渀 猀漀洀攀 搀攀琀愀椀氀 漀渀 瀀⸀ഊ> 283).
਀㸀 ഊ> Thomas
਀ഊ
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 吀甀攀Ⰰ ㄀㜀 伀挀琀 ㈀　　　 ㄀㈀㨀㄀㔀㨀㄀㐀 ⴀ　㐀　　ഊFrom: "Gaylin J. Walli" <gwalli at ptc.com>
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 最甀愀瘀愀 愀渀搀 琀栀攀 䰀甀挀愀礀漀猀ഊ
਀㸀䤀✀氀氀 琀爀礀 琀漀 挀栀攀挀欀 洀礀 挀漀瀀礀 漀昀 琀栀攀 䰀甀挀愀礀漀猀 琀漀渀椀最栀琀 愀昀琀攀爀 䤀 爀攀琀甀爀渀 栀漀洀攀 愀渀搀ഊ>we can compare tomorrow.
਀ഊWell, I checked through the cookbook and guava doesn't appear.
਀䤀琀 漀挀挀甀爀猀 琀漀 戀攀 琀栀愀琀 渀漀 洀愀渀礀 瀀攀漀瀀氀攀 栀愀瘀攀 攀瘀攀渀 栀攀愀爀搀 漀昀 琀栀椀猀ഊbook. I received a photocopy of the pages from my laurel
਀眀栀漀 搀椀搀渀✀琀 欀渀漀眀 愀渀礀琀栀椀渀最 愀戀漀甀琀 椀琀 漀琀栀攀爀 琀栀愀渀 猀漀洀攀漀渀攀 栀愀搀ഊsent her this copy.
਀ഊAccording to the information on the photocopy, the book is
਀瀀甀爀瀀漀爀琀攀搀氀礀 愀 ㌀　　ⴀ礀攀愀爀ⴀ漀氀搀 洀愀渀甀猀挀爀椀瀀琀 戀爀漀甀最栀琀 愀氀漀渀最 琀漀 琀栀攀ഊBahamas along with the earliest settlers. Many of the recipes
਀椀渀 琀栀攀 戀漀漀欀 愀爀攀 眀爀椀琀琀攀渀 椀渀 琀攀爀洀猀 漀昀 琀栀椀渀最猀 琀漀 瀀爀攀猀攀爀瘀攀⸀ 吀栀攀ഊphotocopy has the early date of 1660 but it claims to be
਀洀甀挀栀 漀氀搀攀爀⸀ 吀栀攀 䔀搀椀琀漀爀 氀椀猀琀攀搀 漀渀 琀栀攀 爀攀瀀爀椀渀琀 椀猀 ∀䈀漀爀搀攀渀 䌀氀愀爀欀攀∀ഊand the publisher, from what I can tell, is "Old Author Farms".
਀ഊAnyone ever heard of it besides me? Can anyone confirm the
਀瘀攀爀愀挀椀琀礀 漀昀 琀栀攀 戀漀漀欀 椀琀猀攀氀昀㼀 䤀琀✀猀 最漀琀 琀栀攀 攀琀礀洀漀氀漀最椀挀愀氀 琀漀渀攀 漀昀ഊa near-period cookbook, to be certain, but I can't find any
਀栀椀猀琀漀爀礀 漀渀 琀栀攀 戀漀漀欀 愀琀 愀氀氀Ⰰ 攀瘀攀渀 漀渀氀椀渀攀⸀ഊ
਀䤀愀猀洀椀渀 搀攀 䌀漀爀搀漀戀愀Ⰰ 最眀愀氀氀椀 愀琀 瀀琀挀⸀挀漀洀 漀爀 椀愀猀洀椀渀 愀琀 栀漀洀攀⸀挀漀洀ഊ
਀ഊDate: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 13:09:50 -0500
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀䐀攀挀欀攀爀Ⰰ 吀攀爀爀礀 䐀⸀∀ 㰀吀攀爀爀礀䐀 愀琀 䠀攀愀氀琀栀⸀匀琀愀琀攀⸀伀䬀⸀唀匀㸀ഊSubject: RE: SC - guava and the Lucayos
਀ഊThe name Lucayos is derived from the Spanish name for the Bahamas, Los
਀䌀愀礀漀猀⸀ഊ
਀䄀 焀甀椀挀欀 眀攀戀 猀攀愀爀挀栀 琀甀爀渀攀搀 甀瀀 漀渀攀 栀椀琀 椀渀 琀栀攀 䴀愀爀最愀爀攀琀 倀⸀ 䠀攀猀猀 倀愀洀瀀栀氀攀琀ഊCollection at the University of Calgary.  The collection listed; The Lucayos
਀挀漀漀欀 戀漀漀欀Ⰰ 䴀漀爀爀椀猀戀甀爀最Ⰰ 伀渀琀⸀Ⰰ 伀氀搀 䄀甀琀栀漀爀猀 䘀愀爀洀Ⰰ ㄀㤀㔀㤀㬀 㤀㔀 瀀最猀⸀ഊ
਀伀琀栀攀爀 琀栀愀渀 琀栀愀琀Ⰰ 琀栀攀爀攀 搀漀攀猀渀✀琀 猀攀攀洀 琀漀 戀攀 愀渀礀 椀渀昀漀爀洀愀琀椀漀渀 爀攀愀搀椀氀礀 愀瘀愀椀氀愀戀氀攀⸀ഊDoes the pamphlet peovide any other clues?
਀ഊBear
਀ഊ> Anyone ever heard of it besides me? Can anyone confirm the
਀㸀 瘀攀爀愀挀椀琀礀 漀昀 琀栀攀 戀漀漀欀 椀琀猀攀氀昀㼀 䤀琀✀猀 最漀琀 琀栀攀 攀琀礀洀漀氀漀最椀挀愀氀 琀漀渀攀 漀昀ഊ> a near-period cookbook, to be certain, but I can't find any
਀㸀 栀椀猀琀漀爀礀 漀渀 琀栀攀 戀漀漀欀 愀琀 愀氀氀Ⰰ 攀瘀攀渀 漀渀氀椀渀攀⸀ഊ> 
਀㸀 䤀愀猀洀椀渀ഊ
਀ഊDate: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 12:07:36 -0500
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀䐀攀挀欀攀爀Ⰰ 吀攀爀爀礀 䐀⸀∀ 㰀吀攀爀爀礀䐀 愀琀 䠀攀愀氀琀栀⸀匀琀愀琀攀⸀伀䬀⸀唀匀㸀ഊSubject: RE: SC - guava and the Lucayos
਀ഊChristopher Columbus' Diary doesn't mention guava.
਀ഊBear
਀ഊ
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 吀栀甀Ⰰ ㄀㤀 伀挀琀 ㈀　　　 ㄀㠀㨀㈀㠀㨀㈀㜀 ⴀ　㜀　　 ⠀倀䐀吀⤀ഊFrom: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 最甀愀瘀愀 愀渀搀 琀栀攀 䰀甀挀愀礀漀猀ഊ
਀ⴀ ⴀⴀⴀ 吀䜀 㰀最氀漀渀椀渀最 愀琀 䴀愀椀氀攀爀⸀唀渀椀ⴀ䴀愀爀戀甀爀最⸀䐀䔀㸀 眀爀漀琀攀㨀ഊ> According to http://copac.ac.uk, the Bodleian Library has a copy of the
਀㸀 䰀甀挀愀礀漀猀 挀漀漀欀戀漀漀欀㬀 猀攀攀 琀栀攀 䌀漀瀀愀挀 搀愀琀愀戀愀猀攀 昀漀爀 琀栀攀 猀栀漀爀琀 琀椀琀氀攀 攀琀挀⸀㬀 戀甀琀ഊ> nothing you do not already know, I guess.
਀㸀 ഊ> Th.
਀ഊYes this book:
਀ഊThe Lucayos cook book : being an original manuscript  
਀⸀⸀⸀ 昀漀甀渀搀 椀渀 琀栀攀 䈀愀栀愀洀愀猀Ⰰ  欀攀瀀琀 昀漀爀 ㌀　 礀攀愀爀猀 琀漀  ഊtest-refine, from A.D. 1660 to 1690, by a noble  
਀昀愀洀椀氀礀  漀昀 䔀氀椀稀愀戀攀琀栀愀渀 䔀渀最氀愀渀搀 ⸀⸀⸀ 挀漀渀琀愀椀渀椀渀最 猀漀洀攀  ഊ260 ancient and remarkable recipesand formulas for  
਀愀氀氀 洀愀渀渀攀爀 漀昀 挀漀漀欀攀爀礀 ⸀⸀⸀ ⸀ ⴀⴀ 一愀猀猀愀甀Ⰰ 䈀愀栀愀洀愀猀 㨀 伀氀搀  ഊAuthorsFarm, 1959.                                    
਀㐀㠀 瀀⸀ 㨀 椀氀氀⸀ 㬀 ㈀㐀 挀洀⸀ ഊ
਀椀猀 椀渀 琀栀攀 䈀漀搀氀攀愀渀⸀  䤀琀 椀猀 愀氀猀漀 椀渀㨀ഊ
਀䰀椀戀爀愀爀礀 漀昀 䌀漀渀最爀攀猀猀ഊUnivesity of Iowa Library
਀一攀眀 夀漀爀欀 倀甀戀氀椀挀 䰀椀戀爀愀爀礀ഊUniv. of Florida Library
਀唀渀椀瘀⸀ 漀昀 䌀愀氀椀昀漀爀渀椀愀Ⰰ 䈀攀爀欀攀氀攀礀 䰀椀戀爀愀爀礀ഊLos Angeles City Public Library
਀䈀爀漀眀渀 唀渀椀瘀攀爀椀琀礀 䰀椀戀爀愀爀礀ഊ
਀䤀琀 愀瀀瀀攀愀爀猀 琀漀 戀攀 爀愀琀栀攀爀 瀀漀猀琀ⴀ瀀攀爀椀漀搀⸀ഊ
਀䠀甀攀琀琀攀ഊ
਀ഊDate: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 23:26:26 -0400
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 栀愀爀瀀攀爀 愀琀 椀搀琀⸀渀攀琀ഊSubject: SC - Baked apples
਀ഊSorry, I don't remember who asked for this.  Granado does have a 
਀爀攀挀椀瀀攀 昀漀爀 戀愀欀攀搀 焀甀椀渀挀攀猀Ⰰ 眀栀椀挀栀 挀愀渀 愀氀猀漀 戀攀 洀愀搀攀 眀椀琀栀 愀瀀瀀氀攀猀⸀  䤀琀✀猀 ഊinside a pastry crust, so maybe it's closer to an apple dumpling.  I 
਀搀漀渀✀琀 栀愀瘀攀 琀椀洀攀 爀椀最栀琀 渀漀眀 琀漀 琀爀愀渀猀氀愀琀攀 椀琀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 栀攀爀攀✀猀 琀栀攀 最椀猀琀㨀ഊhalf-roast the apple on a spit, wrapped in buttered paper.  Core it, 
਀昀椀氀氀 琀栀攀 栀漀氀攀 眀椀琀栀 挀漀眀✀猀 戀甀琀琀攀爀 漀爀 洀愀爀爀漀眀Ⰰ 猀甀最愀爀Ⰰ 挀椀渀渀愀洀漀渀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 愀 ഊwhole clove.  Put inside a pastry crust made of white flour, butter, 
਀愀渀搀 攀最最 礀漀氀欀猀⸀  䈀愀欀攀 愀渀搀 琀栀攀渀 猀攀爀瘀攀 栀漀琀 漀爀 挀漀氀搀⸀  吀栀攀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀 挀愀氀氀猀 ഊthis a tartlet (pastellito), and says to make the box (like the 
਀匀瀀愀渀椀猀栀 攀焀甀椀瘀愀氀攀渀琀 漀昀 ∀挀漀昀昀椀渀∀⤀ 樀甀猀琀 戀椀最 攀渀漀甀最栀 昀漀爀 琀栀攀 愀瀀瀀氀攀Ⰰ 猀漀 椀琀 ഊmight be more like an individidual pie than a wrapped dumpling.
਀ഊBrighid, busy making peach pits to bring to EKU...
਀ഊLady Brighid ni Chiarain
਀匀攀琀琀洀漀甀爀 匀眀愀洀瀀Ⰰ 䔀愀猀琀 ⠀一䨀⤀ഊ
਀ഊDate: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 15:27:09 +1100
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀䰀攀攀ⴀ䜀眀攀渀 䈀漀漀琀栀∀ 㰀瀀椀最氀攀琀　　㘀 愀琀 最氀漀戀愀氀昀爀攀攀眀愀礀⸀挀漀洀⸀愀甀㸀ഊSubject: SC - Coconuts in Period
਀ഊThe question has been raised in this house about whether coconuts were used
਀椀渀 匀䌀䄀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 椀渀 䔀甀爀漀瀀攀⸀  䤀 栀愀瘀攀 搀漀渀攀 猀漀洀攀 洀愀樀漀爀 猀攀愀爀挀栀攀猀 漀渀ⴀ氀椀渀攀 愀渀搀 栀愀瘀攀ഊcome up with the following facts:
਀ഊ1) in 1280 the coconut is mentioned by Marco Polo who calls it an Indian
਀一甀琀㬀ഊ2) It was first called a coconut by English explorers in 1555 because the
਀椀渀搀攀渀琀愀琀椀漀渀猀 漀渀 琀栀攀 戀愀猀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀 渀甀琀 爀攀猀攀洀戀氀攀搀 洀漀渀欀攀礀 ⠀挀漀挀漀 洀攀愀渀椀渀最 攀椀琀栀攀爀ഊmonkey or monkey face, I can't remember which.
਀ഊGwynydd 
਀ഊ
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 吀甀攀Ⰰ ㄀㈀ 䐀攀挀 ㈀　　　 ㄀㠀㨀　㄀㨀㄀㐀 ⴀ　㔀　　ഊFrom: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd at gate.net>
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 䌀漀挀漀渀甀琀猀 椀渀 倀攀爀椀漀搀ഊ
਀吀栀攀 昀椀爀猀琀 ∀圀攀猀琀攀爀渀 洀攀渀琀椀漀渀 䤀 欀渀漀眀 漀昀 琀栀攀 挀漀挀漀渀甀琀 眀愀猀 椀渀 㔀㐀㔀 䄀⸀䐀⸀ 戀礀 䌀漀猀洀漀猀ഊIndicopleustes, an Egyptian monk who visited western India and Ceylon.  In
਀栀椀猀 吀漀瀀漀最爀愀瀀栀椀愀 䌀栀爀椀猀琀椀愀渀猀Ⰰ 栀攀 搀攀猀挀爀椀戀攀猀 椀琀 愀猀 琀栀攀 ∀最爀攀愀琀 渀甀琀 漀昀 䤀渀搀椀愀⸀∀ഊMarco Polo in 1280 described it growing in Sumatra, and Madras and Malabar
਀椀渀 䤀渀搀椀愀Ⰰ 挀愀氀氀椀渀最 椀琀 渀甀砀 椀渀搀椀挀愀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 䤀渀搀椀愀渀 渀甀琀⸀  吀栀攀 昀椀爀猀琀 搀攀琀愀椀氀攀搀 圀攀猀琀攀爀渀ഊdescription of the coconut palm was provided by the Italian explorer
਀䰀漀搀漀瘀椀挀漀 搀椀 嘀愀爀琀栀攀洀愀 椀渀 栀椀猀 䤀琀椀渀攀爀愀爀椀漀 椀渀 ㄀㔀㄀　Ⰰ 眀栀攀爀攀 栀攀 爀攀昀攀爀爀攀搀 琀漀 椀琀 愀猀ഊtenga.  The name cocos is believed to be derived from the Spanish word
਀∀挀漀挀漀∀ 洀攀愀渀椀渀最 ∀洀漀渀欀攀礀 昀愀挀攀⸀∀  吀栀椀猀 眀愀猀 搀攀爀椀瘀攀搀 戀礀 琀栀攀 匀瀀愀渀椀猀栀 愀渀搀ഊPortuguese explorers imagining that the inner nut's three spots looked like
਀愀 洀漀渀欀攀礀 昀愀挀攀⸀ഊ
਀䤀✀瘀攀 猀攀攀渀 瀀椀挀琀甀爀攀猀 漀昀 ㄀㘀琀栀 挀攀渀琀甀爀礀 昀漀漀琀攀搀 最漀戀氀攀琀猀 琀栀攀 戀漀眀氀 漀昀 眀栀椀挀栀 眀愀猀 愀ഊpolished coconut.  For further information on this and other nuts check out
਀∀吀栀攀 䈀漀漀欀 漀昀 䔀搀椀戀氀攀 一甀琀猀∀ 戀礀 䘀爀攀搀爀椀挀欀 刀漀猀攀渀最愀爀琀攀渀Ⰰ 䨀爀⸀  䤀 栀愀瘀攀 愀 猀椀最渀攀搀ഊcopy, it's a great book.
਀ഊDaniel Raoul
਀ഊ
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 吀甀攀Ⰰ ㄀㈀ 䐀攀挀 ㈀　　　 ㈀㈀㨀㔀㌀㨀㈀㠀 ⴀ　㘀　　ഊFrom: "RANDALL DIAMOND" <ringofkings at mindspring.com>
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 䌀漀挀漀渀甀琀猀 椀渀 倀攀爀椀漀搀ഊ
਀䜀眀礀渀礀搀搀 愀猀欀猀㨀ഊ>The question has been raised in this house about whether coconuts were used
਀㸀椀渀 匀䌀䄀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 椀渀 䔀甀爀漀瀀攀⸀  䤀 栀愀瘀攀 搀漀渀攀 猀漀洀攀 洀愀樀漀爀 猀攀愀爀挀栀攀猀 漀渀ⴀ氀椀渀攀 愀渀搀 栀愀瘀攀ഊ>come up with the following facts:
਀ഊ>1) in 1280 the coconut is mentioned by Marco Polo who calls it an Indian
਀㸀一甀琀㬀ഊ>2) It was first called a coconut by English explorers in 1555 because the
਀㸀椀渀搀攀渀琀愀琀椀漀渀猀 漀渀 琀栀攀 戀愀猀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀 渀甀琀 爀攀猀攀洀戀氀攀搀 洀漀渀欀攀礀 ⠀挀漀挀漀 洀攀愀渀椀渀最 攀椀琀栀攀爀ഊ>monkey or monkey face, I can't remember which.
਀ഊ"Coco" in both Spanish and Portuguese  languages signifies a grinning
਀昀愀挀攀⸀  䌀漀挀漀猀 渀甀挀椀昀攀爀愀 ⠀挀漀挀漀渀甀琀⤀ 眀愀猀 昀椀爀猀琀 渀漀琀攀搀 戀礀 琀栀攀 倀漀爀琀甀最甀攀猀攀 椀渀 䤀渀搀椀愀ഊand was originally called "the Nut of India" by many early sources. The
਀倀漀爀琀甀最甀攀猀攀 栀椀猀琀漀爀椀愀渀 伀瘀椀攀搀漀 夀 嘀愀氀搀攀猀 ⠀㄀㐀㜀㠀ⴀ㄀㔀㔀㜀⤀ 渀漀琀攀猀 椀渀 䰀愀 䜀攀渀攀爀愀氀 礀 渀愀琀甀爀愀氀ഊhistoria de las Indias, the following:  'This frute was cauled Cocus for this
਀挀愀甀猀攀Ⰰ 琀栀愀琀Ⰰ 眀栀攀渀 椀琀 椀猀 琀愀欀攀渀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀 瀀氀愀挀攀 眀栀攀爀攀 椀琀 挀氀攀愀甀攀琀栀 琀栀攀爀攀 愀爀攀 猀攀攀渀ഊtwo holes, and aboue them two other naturall holes, which altogether, doo
਀爀攀瀀爀攀猀攀渀琀 琀栀攀 最攀猀琀甀爀攀 愀渀搀 昀礀最甀爀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀 挀愀琀琀攀猀 挀愀氀氀攀搀 䴀愀洀洀漀渀攀Ⰰ 琀栀愀琀 椀猀Ⰰഊmunkeys, when they crye: which cyre the Indians caule 'coca'.'
਀ഊFrom early Elizabethan times coconut shells were carved elaborately and
਀洀漀甀渀琀攀搀 椀渀 猀椀氀瘀攀爀 最椀氀琀 昀爀愀洀攀猀 愀猀 最漀戀氀攀琀猀 愀渀搀 挀漀洀洀攀洀洀漀爀愀琀椀瘀攀 瀀椀攀挀攀猀⸀  吀栀攀ഊearlier ones on a trumpet base as flagons.   It seems doubtful however that
਀琀栀攀 挀漀挀漀渀甀琀 眀愀猀 椀渀 猀甀昀昀椀挀椀攀渀琀 猀甀瀀瀀氀礀 椀渀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 漀琀栀攀爀 琀栀愀渀 椀琀猀 甀猀攀 椀渀 漀搀搀椀琀礀ഊpieces.  Culinary uses were not likely in Europe at this time.
਀ഊAkim Yaroslavich
਀ഊ
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 圀攀搀Ⰰ ㄀㌀ 䐀攀挀 ㈀　　　 ㄀㔀㨀㔀㔀㨀　㠀 ⴀ　㘀　　ഊFrom: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀䔀㨀 㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 䌀漀挀漀渀甀琀猀 椀渀 倀攀爀椀漀搀ഊ
਀䄀欀椀洀Ⰰ 琀栀椀猀 椀猀 椀渀琀攀爀攀猀琀椀渀最 戀攀挀愀甀猀攀Ⰰ 䤀䤀刀䌀Ⰰ 䜀漀渀稀愀氀攀猀 䘀攀爀渀愀渀搀攀稀 搀攀 伀瘀椀攀搀漀 礀ഊValdes is Spanish and the book quoted is "Historia general y natural de las
਀䤀渀搀椀愀猀Ⰰ 䤀猀氀愀猀 礀 吀椀攀爀爀愀ⴀ䘀椀爀洀攀 搀攀氀 䴀愀爀 伀挀攀愀渀漀Ⰰ∀ 愀 琀攀砀琀 漀渀 琀栀攀 圀攀猀琀 䤀渀搀椀攀猀Ⰰഊoriginally published in 1526.
਀ഊIf the quote is correct, then Oviedo is commenting on the Pacific coast,
਀戀攀挀愀甀猀攀 挀漀挀漀渀甀琀 瀀愀氀洀猀 漀挀挀甀爀爀攀搀 漀渀氀礀 漀渀 琀栀攀 眀攀猀琀 挀漀愀猀琀 漀昀 匀漀甀琀栀 愀渀搀 䌀攀渀琀爀愀氀ഊAmerica at that time.
਀ഊBear
਀ഊ
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 圀攀搀Ⰰ ㄀㌀ 䐀攀挀 ㈀　　　 ㄀㘀㨀　㌀㨀㌀㘀 ⴀ　㘀　　ഊFrom: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀䔀㨀 㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 䌀漀挀漀渀甀琀猀 椀渀 倀攀爀椀漀搀ഊ
਀䤀 猀攀攀 䤀 洀椀最栀琀 戀攀 洀椀猀甀渀搀攀爀猀琀漀漀搀⸀  䌀漀挀漀渀甀琀猀 椀渀 琀栀攀 一攀眀 圀漀爀氀搀 漀挀挀甀爀爀攀搀 漀渀氀礀 漀渀ഊthe Pacific coast having been carried there by winds and currents and not
਀礀攀琀 栀愀瘀椀渀最 戀攀攀渀 搀漀洀攀猀琀椀挀愀琀攀搀⸀ഊ
਀䈀攀愀爀ഊ
਀㸀 䤀昀 琀栀攀 焀甀漀琀攀 椀猀 挀漀爀爀攀挀琀Ⰰ 琀栀攀渀 伀瘀椀攀搀漀 椀猀 挀漀洀洀攀渀琀椀渀最 漀渀 琀栀攀 倀愀挀椀昀椀挀 挀漀愀猀琀Ⰰഊ> because coconut palms occurred only on the west coast of South and Central
਀㸀 䄀洀攀爀椀挀愀 愀琀 琀栀愀琀 琀椀洀攀⸀ഊ> 
਀㸀 䈀攀愀爀ഊ
਀ഊDate: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 18:12:25 -0500
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀䐀愀渀椀攀氀 倀栀攀氀瀀猀∀ 㰀瀀栀攀氀瀀猀搀 愀琀 最愀琀攀⸀渀攀琀㸀ഊSubject: Re: : SC - Coconuts in Period
਀ഊWas written:
਀㸀䌀漀挀漀渀甀琀猀 椀渀 琀栀攀 一攀眀 圀漀爀氀搀 漀挀挀甀爀爀攀搀 漀渀氀礀 漀渀ഊ>the Pacific coast having been carried there by winds and currents and not
਀㸀礀攀琀 栀愀瘀椀渀最 戀攀攀渀 搀漀洀攀猀琀椀挀愀琀攀搀⸀ഊ
਀伀搀搀 栀椀猀琀漀爀椀挀愀氀 渀漀琀攀 爀攀最愀爀搀猀 倀愀氀洀 䈀攀愀挀栀Ⰰ 䘀氀漀爀椀搀愀⸀  䰀攀最攀渀搀 栀愀猀 椀琀 挀愀氀氀攀搀 猀漀ഊbecause coconut palms grew there.  Legend says that a cargo vessel with
਀挀漀挀漀渀甀琀猀 愀戀漀愀爀搀 猀愀渀欀 漀昀昀 猀栀漀爀攀 愀渀搀 琀栀攀 挀漀挀漀渀甀琀猀 眀攀爀攀 眀愀猀栀攀搀 愀猀栀漀爀攀 愀渀搀 最爀攀眀⸀ഊThis occurred in either the late 16th or 17th century if I remember
਀挀漀爀爀攀挀琀氀礀 眀栀愀琀 䤀 爀攀愀搀⸀  䌀漀挀漀渀甀琀猀 眀攀爀攀 愀瀀瀀愀爀攀渀琀氀礀 愀瘀愀椀氀愀戀氀攀 椀渀 䌀漀氀漀渀椀愀氀ഊAmerica by the way.
਀ഊRosengarten writes regards the coconuts origin that it clearly orginated in
਀琀栀攀 倀愀挀椀昀椀挀 伀挀攀愀渀 戀甀琀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀爀攀 愀爀攀 琀眀漀 琀栀攀漀爀椀攀猀㬀 愀渀 伀氀搀 圀漀爀氀搀 愀渀搀 愀 一攀眀ഊWorld one.  It is apparently clear, according to him, that it was well
਀攀猀琀愀戀氀椀猀栀攀搀 漀渀 琀栀攀 倀愀挀椀昀椀挀 挀漀愀猀琀 漀昀 倀愀渀愀洀愀 戀攀昀漀爀攀 琀栀攀 昀椀爀猀琀 匀瀀愀渀椀猀栀ഊexplorers got there.  Paleobotanical evidence of fossil coconuts from the
਀氀愀琀攀 吀攀爀琀椀愀爀礀 攀砀椀猀琀猀 椀渀 一攀眀 娀攀愀氀愀渀搀⸀  吀栀攀 猀琀爀漀渀最攀猀琀 琀栀攀漀爀礀 椀渀 栀椀猀 攀猀琀椀洀愀琀椀漀渀ഊpostulates a western Pacific or eastern  Indian Ocean origin with a gradual
਀攀愀猀琀 愀渀搀 眀攀猀琀 猀瀀爀攀愀搀 攀椀琀栀攀爀 渀愀琀甀爀愀氀氀礀 瘀椀愀 漀挀攀愀渀 挀甀爀爀攀渀琀猀 漀爀 戀礀 洀愀渀⸀  嘀愀猀挀漀ഊda Gama in 1498 found it in Mozambique in East Africa.  According to
਀刀漀猀攀最愀爀琀攀渀Ⰰ ∀䤀琀 椀猀 最攀渀攀爀愀氀氀礀 愀最爀攀攀搀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 挀漀挀漀渀甀琀 眀愀猀 渀漀琀 昀漀甀渀搀 椀渀 琀栀攀ഊAtlantic Ocean basin until the Portuguese brought it there after 1500, when
਀琀栀攀礀 椀渀琀爀漀搀甀挀攀搀 琀栀攀 瀀愀氀洀 琀漀 圀攀猀琀 䄀昀爀椀挀愀 愀渀搀 䈀爀愀稀椀氀⸀  䤀渀 琀栀攀 攀愀爀氀礀 猀椀砀琀攀攀渀琀栀ഊcentury the Spanish carried it to the Caribbean."  He further states that it
਀眀愀猀 爀愀瀀椀搀氀礀 猀瀀爀攀愀搀 琀栀爀漀甀最栀漀甀琀 琀栀攀 䌀愀爀椀戀戀攀愀渀 愀渀搀 匀漀甀琀栀 䄀洀攀爀椀挀愀⸀ഊ
਀䐀愀渀椀攀氀 刀愀漀甀氀ഊ
਀ഊDate: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 10:54:31 -0800
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 氀椀氀椀渀愀栀 愀琀 攀愀爀琀栀氀椀渀欀⸀渀攀琀ഊSubject: Re: SC - Fruit Query
਀ഊLady Lucrezia-Isabella di Freccia wrote:
਀㸀䤀 眀愀猀 戀爀漀眀猀椀渀最 琀栀爀漀甀最栀 琀栀攀 吀愀挀甀椀渀甀洀 匀愀渀椀琀愀琀椀猀 氀愀猀琀 渀椀最栀琀 愀渀搀 挀愀洀攀 愀挀爀漀猀猀 愀渀ഊ>entry of "jujubes", a small fruit (the picture shows 2 people knocking plum
਀㸀猀椀稀攀搀 昀爀甀椀琀猀 漀昀昀 愀 琀爀攀攀⤀⸀ 䤀猀 琀栀椀猀 愀 渀愀洀攀 昀漀爀 猀漀洀攀 漀琀栀攀爀 昀爀甀椀琀㼀 䤀✀瘀攀 渀攀瘀攀爀ഊ>heard of it before.
਀ഊEtymology:
਀䴀椀搀搀氀攀 䔀渀最氀椀猀栀Ⰰ 樀甀樀甀戀攀 昀爀甀椀琀Ⰰ 昀爀漀洀 伀氀搀 䘀爀攀渀挀栀Ⰰ 昀爀漀洀 䴀攀搀椀攀瘀愀氀 䰀愀琀椀渀 ഊjujuba, from Latin zizyphum, from Greek zizuphon.
਀ഊhttp://www.crfg.org/pubs/ff/jujube.html
਀栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀眀眀眀⸀瘀攀最眀攀戀⸀挀漀洀⼀最氀漀猀猀愀爀礀⼀搀漀挀猀⼀㠀　⸀猀栀琀洀氀ഊThe text on these two pages is similar but not identical - they have 
਀搀椀昀昀攀爀攀渀琀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀猀Ⰰ 琀漀漀⸀ഊ
਀栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀眀眀眀⸀攀愀琀ⴀ椀琀⸀挀漀洀⼀樀甀樀甀戀攀⸀栀琀洀ഊ
਀栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀眀眀眀⸀戀漀琀愀渀椀挀愀氀⸀挀漀洀⼀戀漀琀愀渀椀挀愀氀⼀洀最洀栀⼀樀⼀樀甀樀甀戀攀㄀　⸀栀琀洀氀ഊhas the entry from Mrs. Grieve's Modern Herbal from earlier in the 20th century
਀ഊApparently there is also commercial jujube honey from New Zealand and 
਀樀甀樀甀戀攀 眀椀渀攀 昀爀漀洀 䌀栀椀渀愀⸀ഊ
਀䤀 栀愀瘀攀 猀攀攀渀 琀栀攀 昀爀攀猀栀 昀爀甀椀琀 昀漀爀 猀愀氀攀 椀渀 䄀猀椀愀渀 昀漀漀搀 洀愀爀欀攀琀猀 ⠀愀爀漀甀渀搀 ഊhere we cover from Southwest Asia, South Asia, Southeast Asia, East 
਀䄀猀椀愀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 琀栀攀 瘀愀爀椀漀甀猀 倀愀挀椀昀椀挀 䤀猀氀愀渀搀猀⤀ഊ
਀䄀渀愀栀椀琀愀 愀氀ⴀ猀栀愀稀栀椀礀礀愀ഊ
਀ഊDate: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 13:19:17 -0600
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀䐀攀挀欀攀爀Ⰰ 吀攀爀爀礀 䐀⸀∀ 㰀吀攀爀爀礀䐀 愀琀 䠀攀愀氀琀栀⸀匀琀愀琀攀⸀伀䬀⸀唀匀㸀ഊSubject: RE: SC - Fruit Query
਀ഊThe fruit is also called a Chinese date.  It's the fruit of an Old World
਀最攀渀甀猀Ⰰ 娀椀稀椀瀀栀甀猀Ⰰ 洀漀猀琀 挀漀洀洀漀渀氀礀 娀⸀ 樀甀樀甀戀愀⸀ഊ
਀䈀攀愀爀 ഊ
਀㸀 䤀 眀愀猀 戀爀漀眀猀椀渀最 琀栀爀漀甀最栀 琀栀攀 吀愀挀甀椀渀甀洀 匀愀渀椀琀愀琀椀猀 氀愀猀琀 渀椀最栀琀 愀渀搀 ഊ> came across an
਀㸀 攀渀琀爀礀 漀昀 ∀樀甀樀甀戀攀猀∀Ⰰ 愀 猀洀愀氀氀 昀爀甀椀琀 ⠀琀栀攀 瀀椀挀琀甀爀攀 猀栀漀眀猀 ㈀ 瀀攀漀瀀氀攀 ഊ> knocking plum
਀㸀 猀椀稀攀搀 昀爀甀椀琀猀 漀昀昀 愀 琀爀攀攀⤀⸀ 䤀猀 琀栀椀猀 愀 渀愀洀攀 昀漀爀 猀漀洀攀 漀琀栀攀爀 ഊ> fruit? I've never
਀㸀 栀攀愀爀搀 漀昀 椀琀 戀攀昀漀爀攀⸀ഊ> 
਀㸀 䄀氀 匀攀爀瘀椀稀椀漀 嘀漀猀琀爀漀Ⰰ 攀 搀攀氀 匀漀最渀漀ഊ> Lucrezia
਀ഊ
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 吀甀攀Ⰰ ㈀㌀ 䨀愀渀 ㈀　　㄀ ㄀㐀㨀㌀㔀㨀　㈀ ⴀ　㘀　　ഊFrom: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀䔀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 䘀爀甀椀琀 儀甀攀爀礀ഊ
਀䠀攀爀猀攀礀✀猀 䨀甀樀甀戀攀猀㼀ഊ
਀䤀 最愀琀栀攀爀 琀栀攀 昀爀甀椀琀 椀猀 瀀爀攀琀琀礀 洀甀挀栀 氀椀欀攀 愀 爀攀最甀氀愀爀 搀愀琀攀 攀砀挀攀瀀琀 琀栀愀琀 椀琀 挀愀渀 搀爀礀ഊon the tree.  You can make jujube candy by halving and seed the ripe fruit
਀琀栀攀渀 猀椀洀洀攀爀椀渀最 椀琀 椀渀 愀 㔀　⼀㔀　 洀椀砀 漀昀 眀愀琀攀爀 愀渀搀 戀爀漀眀渀 猀甀最愀爀 昀漀爀 愀戀漀甀琀 ㈀　ഊminutes and spreading it out to dry.  Not exactly a modern jujube though.
਀ഊBear
਀ഊ> I knew that jujubes are really a fruit, but I wonder if the original
਀㸀 焀甀攀猀琀椀漀渀 愀戀漀甀琀 ✀眀栀愀琀 攀氀猀攀 椀猀 椀琀㼀✀ 挀漀甀氀搀 戀攀 爀攀昀攀爀爀椀渀最 琀漀 琀栀漀猀攀 氀椀琀琀氀攀ഊ> fruit-flavored candies you get at the movies- the ones that stick in
਀㸀 礀漀甀爀 琀攀攀琀栀 愀渀搀 礀漀甀 猀瀀攀渀搀 琀栀攀 昀椀氀洀 琀爀礀椀渀最 琀漀 猀甀挀欀 琀栀攀洀 搀漀眀渀 昀爀漀洀 礀漀甀爀ഊ> molars?
਀㸀 ഊ> 'Lainie
਀ഊ
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 吀栀甀Ⰰ ㈀㔀 䨀愀渀 ㈀　　㄀ 　㤀㨀　㘀㨀㌀㈀ ⴀ　㠀　　ഊFrom: "E. Rain" <raghead at liripipe.com>
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 䨀甀樀甀戀攀 䘀爀甀椀琀ഊ
਀猀漀洀栀漀眀 䤀 洀椀猀猀攀搀 琀栀椀猀 琀栀爀攀愀搀 甀渀琀椀氀 琀漀搀愀礀⸀ഊI was very excited on our trip to Europe this fall to discover jujubes at
਀漀渀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀 甀瀀猀挀愀氀攀 最爀漀挀攀爀椀攀猀 椀渀 倀愀爀椀猀⸀  漀昀 挀漀甀爀猀攀 䤀 戀漀甀最栀琀 琀栀攀洀 㨀ⴀ㸀 猀愀搀氀礀 䤀ഊhad no period recipes with me to try them in, so we just ate them raw to
਀欀渀漀眀 眀栀愀琀 眀攀 眀攀爀攀 搀攀愀氀椀渀最 眀椀琀栀⸀  琀栀攀礀✀爀攀 欀椀渀搀 漀昀 氀椀欀攀 戀氀愀渀搀 栀礀瀀攀爀ⴀ瀀攀挀琀椀渀礀ഊapples.  they start out with a green apple like skin (though shaped like a
਀氀愀爀最攀 搀愀琀攀⤀ 愀渀搀 猀氀漀眀氀礀 琀甀爀渀 戀爀漀眀渀 琀漀 氀漀漀欀 洀漀爀攀 ☀ 洀漀爀攀 搀愀琀攀 氀椀欀攀⸀  一攀砀琀 琀椀洀攀ഊI'll try & cook them.  No I didn't try to bring any home - I was going to be
਀椀渀 䤀琀愀氀礀 愀渀漀琀栀攀爀 ㌀ 眀攀攀欀猀 ☀ 戀爀椀渀最椀渀最 戀愀挀欀 昀漀漀搀猀 琀栀爀漀甀最栀 挀甀猀琀漀洀攀猀 椀猀ഊproblematic anyway.
਀ഊwonderful to know that you can now order the tree here in the States!
਀ഊEden - any year now I'm gonna start that medieval garden...
਀ഊ
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 䘀爀椀Ⰰ ㄀㌀ 䄀瀀爀 ㈀　　㄀ ㄀㤀㨀㐀㠀㨀　㜀 ⴀ　㔀　　ഊFrom: "Michael Newton" <melcnewt at netins.net>
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 匀䌀 ⴀ 挀漀爀椀渀最 昀爀甀椀琀ഊ
਀㸀 匀瀀攀愀欀椀渀最 漀昀 最氀漀瀀Ⰰ 䤀 攀渀挀漀甀渀琀攀爀攀搀 愀 搀椀猀栀 漀昀 瀀攀愀爀猀 椀渀 猀礀爀甀瀀 洀愀搀攀 昀漀爀 愀ഊcompetition recently. The original recipe does not call for cutting, coring, or peeling the pears at all (in fact, none of the pears in syrup type recipes I've seen call for coring the pear, which is odd). The redactor had cored, peeled and cut the pears into small pieces and cooked it for some time-- the amount of wine in her redaction was minimal. Someone else pointed out that this recipe is usually done with pears peeled, cored and sliced in half, then cooked quickly. 
਀ഊIt occured to me that that is the way modern pears in syrup are served, and so we may be being overly influenced by 'tradition'. What do others think?
਀⠀吀栀攀 爀攀搀愀挀琀椀漀渀 眀愀猀 搀攀氀椀挀椀漀甀猀 戀甀琀 漀戀瘀椀漀甀猀氀礀 猀漀洀攀眀栀愀琀 猀椀洀椀氀愀爀 琀漀 爀攀愀氀氀礀 挀栀甀渀欀礀 愀瀀瀀氀攀猀愀甀挀攀⸀⤀ഊ> --
਀㸀 䨀愀搀眀椀最愀 娀愀樀愀挀稀欀漀眀愀Ⰰ 洀欀愀 䨀攀渀渀椀昀攀爀 䠀攀椀猀攀       樀攀渀渀攀 愀琀 洀愀椀氀⸀戀爀漀眀猀攀爀⸀渀攀琀ഊ
਀吀栀攀礀 洀愀礀 栀愀瘀攀 渀漀琀 挀漀爀攀搀 琀栀攀 瀀攀愀爀 愀琀 愀氀氀㬀 琀栀攀 䌀稀攀挀栀 瘀攀琀 愀琀 眀漀爀欀 愀氀眀愀礀猀 攀愀琀猀ഊhis apple/pear, core and all. I also remember reading in _Pinniccio_,(the
਀戀漀漀欀 渀漀琀 琀栀攀 䐀椀猀渀攀礀 瘀攀爀猀椀漀渀⤀ 琀栀愀琀 䜀攀瀀攀搀漀 眀愀爀渀猀 栀椀猀 ∀猀漀渀∀ 琀漀 攀愀琀 愀氀氀 漀昀 琀栀攀ഊpear, including the core, since he might not have anything else to eat. Was
਀琀栀椀猀 愀 挀漀洀洀漀渀 琀栀漀甀最栀琀 搀甀爀椀渀最 琀栀攀 䴀攀搀椀攀瘀愀氀 愀最攀猀㼀 䤀 搀漀渀✀琀 欀渀漀眀⸀ 䈀甀琀 椀琀 挀漀甀氀搀ഊbe why their recipes don't call for coring the fruit. A waste not, want not
਀愀琀琀椀琀甀搀攀⸀ഊ
਀䈀攀愀琀爀椀砀 漀昀 吀愀渀攀琀ഊ
਀ഊFrom: "Siegfried Heydrich" <baronsig at peganet.com>
਀吀漀㨀 㰀匀䌀䄀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最㸀ഊDate: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 12:36:27 -0400
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 䘀爀甀椀琀 ☀ 渀甀琀 爀攀猀漀甀爀挀攀ഊ
਀    䤀 氀椀渀欀攀搀 椀渀琀漀 琀栀椀猀 猀椀琀攀 ⴀ 椀琀✀猀 愀 最漀漀搀 爀攀瀀漀猀椀琀漀爀礀 漀昀 椀渀昀漀 漀渀 昀爀甀椀琀猀 ☀ഊnuts. All mundane, but it gives an historical thumbnail of the species. Well
਀眀漀爀琀栀 琀栀攀 氀漀漀欀⸀ഊ
਀栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀眀眀眀⸀甀最愀⸀攀搀甀⼀栀漀爀琀挀爀漀瀀⼀爀椀攀最攀爀⼀ഊ
਀    匀椀攀最最礀ഊ
਀ഊFrom: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <rcmann4 at earthlink.net>
਀吀漀㨀 猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最ഊDate: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 18:22:32 -0400
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 昀爀甀椀琀 氀攀愀琀栀攀爀 ⠀眀愀猀 瀀攀猀琀漀⤀ഊ
਀伀渀 㘀 匀攀瀀 ㈀　　㄀Ⰰ 愀琀 ㄀　㨀　㠀Ⰰ 䨀攀渀渀椀昀攀爀 吀栀漀洀瀀猀漀渀 眀爀漀琀攀㨀ഊ> Speaking of summer oversized harvests, has anyone had any luck making
਀㸀 瀀攀愀挀栀 昀爀甀椀琀 氀攀愀琀栀攀爀㼀 倀甀爀攀攀 昀爀甀椀琀Ⰰ 愀搀搀 ㄀⼀㐀琀栀 愀猀 洀甀挀栀 猀甀最愀爀Ⰰ 氀攀琀 搀爀礀 椀渀ഊ> slow oven, yes?
਀ഊGranado's recipe for peach leather (Carne de Duraznos) calls for
਀漀渀攀 瀀漀甀渀搀 漀昀 猀甀最愀爀 琀漀 琀眀漀 愀渀搀 愀 栀愀氀昀 瀀漀甀渀搀猀 漀昀 瀀攀愀挀栀攀猀 ⠀琀眀漀ഊpounds of peaches if they're not fully ripe.)
਀ഊComment at recent baronial meeting when I placed "peach flesh"
਀漀渀 琀栀攀 爀攀昀爀攀猀栀洀攀渀琀 琀愀戀氀攀㨀  ∀䌀漀漀氀℀  倀攀爀椀漀搀 爀漀氀氀甀瀀猀℀∀ഊ
਀䈀爀椀最栀椀搀 渀椀 䌀栀椀愀爀愀椀渀 ⨀⨀⨀ 洀欀愀 刀漀戀椀渀 䌀愀爀爀漀氀氀ⴀ䴀愀渀渀ഊBarony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom
਀ഊ
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 吀栀甀Ⰰ ㄀㌀ 䐀攀挀 ㈀　　㄀ ㄀㌀㨀㔀㤀㨀㄀㠀 ⬀　㈀　　ഊTo: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 䨀攀猀猀椀挀愀 吀椀昀昀椀渀 㰀洀攀氀椀猀愀渀琀 愀琀 椀愀昀爀椀挀愀⸀挀漀洀㸀ഊSubject: [Sca-cooks] Gervase Markham's fruite paste
਀ഊGervase Markham has a recipe for something called "paste of Genoa" - as
਀昀漀氀氀漀眀猀㨀ഊTo make paste of Genoa, you shall take Quinces after they have been
਀戀漀礀氀攀搀 猀漀昀琀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 戀攀愀琀 琀栀攀洀 椀渀 愀 洀漀爀琀愀爀 眀椀琀栀 爀攀昀椀渀攀搀 猀甀最愀爀Ⰰ 䌀椀渀愀洀漀渀 愀渀搀ഊGinger finely searst, and Damask-Rose-water till it come to a stiff
਀瀀愀猀琀攀㬀 愀渀搀 爀漀眀氀 椀琀 昀漀爀琀栀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 瀀爀椀渀琀 椀琀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 猀漀 戀愀欀攀 椀琀 椀渀 愀 猀琀漀瘀攀㬀 愀渀搀ഊin this sort you may make paste of Pears, Apples, Wardens, Plums of all
਀欀椀渀搀猀Ⰰ 䌀栀攀爀爀椀攀猀Ⰰ 䈀愀爀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀Ⰰ 漀爀 眀栀愀琀 漀琀栀攀爀 昀爀甀椀琀猀 礀漀甀 瀀氀攀愀猀攀⸀ഊ
਀䠀愀猀 愀渀礀漀渀攀 攀瘀攀爀 愀挀琀甀愀氀氀礀 琀爀椀攀搀 琀栀椀猀㼀  䤀✀洀 渀漀琀 猀甀爀攀 椀昀 䤀 猀栀漀甀氀搀 戀攀 愀挀琀甀愀氀氀礀ഊcooking the sugar/fruit paste in the oven, or drying it out like a fruit
਀氀攀愀琀栀攀爀⸀  䐀漀攀猀 愀渀礀漀渀攀 栀愀瘀攀 愀 爀攀搀愀挀琀攀搀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀 漀爀 愀渀礀 猀甀最最攀猀琀椀漀渀猀㼀ഊ
਀洀愀渀礀 琀栀愀渀欀猀ⰀഊJdH
਀ഊLady Jehanne de Huguenin (Jessica Tiffin) * Drachenwald Kingdom Chronicler
਀匀栀椀爀攀 漀昀 䄀搀愀洀愀猀琀漀爀Ⰰ 䌀愀瀀攀 吀漀眀渀Ⰰ 匀漀甀琀栀 䄀昀爀椀挀愀ഊ
਀ഊFrom: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <rcmann4 at earthlink.net>
਀吀漀㨀 猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最ഊDate: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 16:55:56 -0500
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 琀漀爀琀愀 漀昀 洀攀氀漀渀猀ഊ
਀伀渀 㐀 䄀瀀爀 ㈀　　㈀Ⰰ 愀琀 㤀㨀㔀㤀Ⰰ 匀甀猀愀渀 䘀漀砀ⴀ䐀愀瘀椀猀 眀爀漀琀攀㨀ഊ> Perhaps unripe plums?  A Google search does not turn up the word
਀㸀 ∀愀氀甀愀爀椀挀漀焀甀攀猀∀ 椀渀 愀渀礀 搀漀挀甀洀攀渀琀 攀砀挀攀瀀琀 琀栀攀 䘀氀漀爀椀ⴀ吀栀椀渀最椀攀Ⰰ 漀昀 挀漀甀爀猀攀℀  䤀ഊ> would guess "Aluariquoques" to be APRICOTS, according to Websters
਀㸀 刀攀瘀椀猀攀搀 唀渀愀戀爀椀搀最攀搀 䐀椀挀琀椀漀渀愀爀礀 ㄀㤀㄀㌀⸀ഊ> <http://www.bootlegbooks.com/Reference/Webster/data/75.html>
਀ഊYes, apricots would be right.  "aluariquoques" == "alvariquoques" ==
਀∀愀氀戀愀爀椀挀漀焀甀攀猀∀⸀ഊ
਀圀攀氀挀漀洀攀 琀漀 琀栀攀 眀漀渀搀攀爀昀甀氀 眀漀爀氀搀 漀昀 愀爀挀栀愀椀挀 匀瀀愀渀椀猀栀 猀瀀攀氀氀椀渀最⸀  吀栀攀ഊ"Arte de Cortar", which is a century and a half older than Granado,
਀椀猀 昀愀爀 眀漀爀猀攀⸀  ∀䘀椀最愀搀漀∀ 昀漀爀 ∀栀椀最愀搀漀∀ ⠀氀椀瘀攀爀⤀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 ∀爀爀愀㴀䔀㜀椀氀洀攀渀琀攀∀ 昀漀爀ഊ"facilmente" (easily).
਀ഊBrighid ni Chiarain *** mka Robin Carroll-Mann
਀䈀愀爀漀渀礀 漀昀 匀攀琀琀洀漀甀爀 匀眀愀洀瀀Ⰰ 䔀愀猀琀 䬀椀渀最搀漀洀ഊ
਀ഊDate: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:36:49 -0400 (EDT)
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 㰀樀攀渀渀攀 愀琀 昀椀攀搀氀攀爀昀愀洀椀氀礀⸀渀攀琀㸀ഊSubject: [Sca-cooks] "Uncommon fruits worthy of attention"
਀吀漀㨀 㰀猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最㸀ഊ
਀䨀甀猀琀 最漀琀 琀栀椀猀 椀渀 琀栀爀漀甀最栀 䤀䰀䰀㨀ഊ_Uncommon Fruits worthy of Attention: A gardener's Guide_, by Lee Reich.
਀⠀一夀㨀 䄀搀搀椀猀漀渀ⴀ圀攀猀氀攀礀Ⰰ ㄀㤀㤀㄀⸀ഊ
਀吀栀攀 戀漀漀欀 椀渀挀氀甀搀攀猀 搀攀猀挀爀椀瀀琀椀漀渀猀Ⰰ 猀欀攀琀挀栀攀猀Ⰰ 栀椀猀琀漀爀礀Ⰰ 挀甀氀琀椀瘀愀琀椀漀渀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 甀猀攀ഊinformation for the following fruits: Pawpaw, gooseberry, Nanking cherry,
਀洀攀搀氀愀爀Ⰰ 樀甀渀攀戀攀爀爀礀Ⰰ 洀愀礀瀀漀瀀Ⰰ 欀愀欀椀 愀渀搀 䄀洀攀爀椀挀愀渀 瀀攀爀猀椀洀洀漀渀猀Ⰰ 爀愀椀猀椀渀 琀爀攀攀Ⰰഊblack currant, elaeagnus, actinidia, jujube, alpine and musk strawberries,
਀挀甀爀爀愀渀琀猀Ⰰ 爀攀搀 愀渀搀 眀栀椀琀攀Ⰰ 洀甀氀戀攀爀爀礀Ⰰ 氀漀眀戀甀猀栀 戀氀甀攀戀攀爀爀礀Ⰰ 䄀猀椀愀渀 瀀攀愀爀ⰀഊJostabery, and cornelian cherry. Also included are info on pollination,
਀猀椀琀椀渀最 愀渀搀 瀀氀愀渀琀椀渀最Ⰰ 瀀爀甀渀椀渀最Ⰰ 瀀爀漀瀀愀最愀琀椀漀渀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 洀愀椀氀 漀爀搀攀爀 猀漀甀爀挀攀猀⸀ 圀攀氀氀ഊindexed.
਀ഊThis is fascinating. I want to go out and buy a whole bunch of trees
਀渀漀眀⸀⸀⸀ഊ
਀ⴀⴀ 倀愀渀椀 䨀愀搀眀椀最愀 娀愀樀愀挀稀欀漀眀愀Ⰰ 䬀渀漀眀氀攀搀最攀 倀椀欀愀   樀攀渀渀攀 愀琀 昀椀攀搀氀攀爀昀愀洀椀氀礀⸀渀攀琀ഊ
਀ഊDate: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:11:50 -0400
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 樀漀栀渀渀愀 栀漀氀氀漀眀愀礀 㰀樀漀栀渀渀愀 愀琀 猀椀琀欀愀⸀攀渀最椀渀⸀甀洀椀挀栀⸀攀搀甀㸀ഊSubject: Re: [Sca-cooks] "Uncommon fruits worthy of attention"
਀吀漀㨀 䌀漀漀欀猀 眀椀琀栀椀渀 琀栀攀 匀䌀䄀 㰀猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最㸀ഊ
਀夀攀猀Ⰰ 椀琀✀猀 焀甀椀琀攀 最漀漀搀⸀ 䤀 最漀琀 洀椀渀攀 琀栀爀漀甀最栀 琀栀攀 䜀愀爀搀攀渀ഊBookclub. However pricing those trees and finding sources
਀椀猀 猀漀洀攀琀栀椀渀最 漀昀 愀 戀漀琀栀攀爀⸀ 匀漀洀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀 渀甀爀猀攀爀椀攀猀 氀椀猀琀攀搀ഊ are no longer with us, so it takes more hunting.
਀ഊJohnnae
਀ഊ
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 吀栀甀Ⰰ ㈀㔀 䐀攀挀 ㈀　　㌀ ㄀㠀㨀㐀㐀㨀　㈀ ⴀ　㘀　　ഊFrom: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 刀攀㨀 瀀氀甀洀猀 椀渀 瀀氀甀洀 瀀甀搀搀椀渀最ഊTo: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
਀ഊ> Makes sense, but I wonder at what point "prune" came to mean "dried
਀㸀 瀀氀甀洀∀Ⰰ 眀栀攀渀 椀琀 甀猀攀搀 琀漀 洀攀愀渀Ⰰ 琀漀 䔀渀最氀椀猀栀ⴀ猀瀀攀愀欀攀爀猀Ⰰ 愀 瘀愀爀椀攀琀礀 漀昀 瀀氀甀洀ഊ> that frequently comes to us imported in dried form.
਀㸀ഊ> Adamantius
਀ഊPrunes are several varieties of plums, and modernly, particular hybrids
਀搀攀瘀攀氀漀瀀攀搀 昀漀爀 搀爀礀椀渀最⸀ഊ
਀∀倀爀甀渀甀猀∀ ⠀漀爀 ∀瀀爀甀渀甀洀∀⤀ 椀猀 琀栀攀 䰀愀琀椀渀 昀漀爀 瀀氀甀洀Ⰰ 愀猀 眀攀氀氀 愀猀 戀攀椀渀最 猀挀椀攀渀琀椀昀椀挀ഊname for the genera of plums.  It appears in a number of forms in European
਀氀愀渀最甀愀最攀猀⸀  倀氀甀洀 愀瀀瀀攀愀爀猀 琀漀 戀攀 愀 搀攀爀椀瘀愀琀椀瘀攀 漀昀 琀栀攀 䰀愀琀椀渀 渀攀甀琀攀爀 瀀氀甀爀愀氀Ⰰഊ"pruna," apparently entering English from Old Low German.  Plum and 
਀瀀爀甀渀攀 愀爀攀 椀渀琀攀爀挀栀愀渀最愀戀氀攀 甀渀琀椀氀 氀愀琀攀 椀渀 匀䌀䄀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀⸀ഊ
਀吀栀攀 搀爀椀攀搀 昀爀甀椀琀 眀愀猀 漀爀椀最椀渀愀氀氀礀 爀攀昀攀爀爀攀搀 琀漀 愀猀 ∀搀爀椀攀搀 瀀氀甀洀猀∀ 漀爀 ∀搀爀椀攀 瀀爀甀渀椀猀∀ഊ(from a 14th Century reference).  By the 15th or 16th Century, prune was
਀戀攀椀渀最 甀猀攀搀 琀漀 爀攀昀攀爀 琀漀 琀栀攀 搀爀椀攀搀 昀爀甀椀琀⸀ഊ
਀䌀甀爀椀漀甀猀氀礀Ⰰ 瀀爀甀渀攀 眀愀猀 愀氀猀漀 甀猀攀搀 琀漀 爀攀昀攀爀 琀漀 爀愀椀猀椀渀猀 椀渀 嘀椀挀琀漀爀椀愀✀猀 搀愀礀⸀ഊ
਀䈀攀愀爀ഊ
਀ഊDate: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 11:49:44 -0500
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 䨀漀栀渀渀愀 䠀漀氀氀漀眀愀礀 㰀樀漀栀渀渀愀 愀琀 猀椀琀欀愀⸀攀渀最椀渀⸀甀洀椀挀栀⸀攀搀甀㸀ഊSubject: Re: [Sca-cooks] fruit varieties for cooking
਀吀漀㨀 䌀漀漀欀猀 眀椀琀栀椀渀 琀栀攀 匀䌀䄀 㰀猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最㸀ഊ
਀䤀琀✀猀 愀氀猀漀 琀栀攀 焀甀攀猀琀椀漀渀 漀昀 爀攀最椀漀渀愀氀 瘀愀爀椀攀琀椀攀猀 琀栀愀琀 最爀攀眀 戀攀琀琀攀爀 椀渀 愀 挀攀爀琀愀椀渀ഊvalley or hillside. There weren't national markets and transportation
਀琀漀 猀栀椀瀀 氀漀挀愀氀 昀爀甀椀琀猀 栀愀氀昀眀愀礀 愀爀漀甀渀搀 琀栀攀 眀漀爀氀搀 愀琀 琀栀愀琀 瀀漀椀渀琀⸀ 䄀猀 爀攀最愀爀搀猀 愀瀀瀀氀攀猀Ⰰഊthere were also varieties grown just for cider. The same goes for
਀瀀攀愀爀猀 愀渀搀 瀀攀爀爀礀⸀ 吀栀攀爀攀✀猀 愀渀 攀渀琀椀爀攀 戀漀漀欀 攀渀琀椀琀氀攀搀 倀漀洀漀渀愀✀猀 䠀愀爀瘀攀猀琀⸀ഊAn Illustrated Chronicle of Antiquarian Fruit Literature by H. Frederic
਀䨀愀渀猀漀渀 眀栀椀挀栀 吀椀洀戀攀爀 倀爀攀猀猀 瀀甀琀 漀甀琀 椀渀 ㄀㤀㤀㘀 琀栀愀琀 攀砀愀洀椀渀攀猀 琀栀攀 氀椀琀攀爀愀琀甀爀攀ഊassociated with the culture of various fruits. The ideas about grafting and
਀搀椀昀昀攀爀攀渀琀 昀爀甀椀琀 瘀愀爀椀攀琀椀攀猀 眀攀爀攀 椀渀 最爀攀愀琀 搀攀洀愀渀搀 搀甀爀椀渀最 琀栀攀 䴀椀搀搀氀攀 䄀最攀猀 愀渀搀 刀攀渀愀椀猀猀愀渀挀攀 愀渀搀 渀甀洀攀爀漀甀猀 戀漀漀欀猀 眀攀爀攀 眀爀椀琀琀攀渀 眀椀琀栀 爀攀最愀爀搀 琀漀 琀栀攀 戀攀猀琀 洀攀琀栀漀搀猀ഊand varieties for use.
਀ഊJohnnae llyn Lewis
਀ഊ
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 圀攀搀Ⰰ 㘀 伀挀琀 ㈀　　㐀 　㤀㨀　㤀㨀㐀㐀 ⴀ　㐀　　ഊFrom: Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise <jenne at fiedlerfamily.net>
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 眀栀攀爀攀 搀漀 䤀 戀甀礀 愀渀 椀渀搀甀氀最攀渀挀攀 昀漀爀 匀䌀䄀ⴀ䌀漀漀欀猀ഊTo: Dianne & Greg Stucki <goofy1 at suscom.net>,	Cooks within the SCA
਀ऀ㰀猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最㸀ഊ
਀㸀 匀栀愀爀攀 琀栀攀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀 昀漀爀 琀栀攀 瀀攀愀爀猀 眀椀琀栀 挀甀挀甀洀戀攀爀猀 愀渀搀 昀椀最猀 瀀氀攀愀猀攀 瀀氀攀愀猀攀Ⰰ   ഊ> please?
਀ഊOk, this recipe is from recipes section at the back of _Food and Drink
਀椀渀 䴀攀搀椀攀瘀愀氀 倀漀氀愀渀搀 戀礀 䴀愀爀椀愀 䐀攀洀戀椀渀猀欀愀 ☀ 圀椀氀氀椀愀洀 圀漀礀猀 圀攀愀瘀攀爀㬀 圀漀礀猀ഊWeaver, a modern ethnic food writer, wrote up the recipes section and
਀搀椀搀渀✀琀 愀挀琀甀愀氀氀礀 椀渀挀氀甀搀攀 琀栀攀 猀漀甀爀挀攀猀 昀漀爀 琀栀攀 攀砀瀀攀爀椀洀攀渀琀愀琀椀漀渀 琀栀愀琀 栀攀 愀渀搀ഊDembinska did to develop those recipes before she died.
਀ഊHe does say it "was mentioned in the records of the royal garrison at
਀䬀漀爀挀稀礀渀 椀渀 ㄀㌀㠀㤀∀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 椀猀 ∀愀 挀漀渀挀攀椀琀 洀攀愀渀琀 琀漀 椀洀椀琀愀琀攀 瀀漀愀挀栀攀搀 洀攀氀漀渀∀⸀ 䤀昀ഊyou vary the recipe by including more honey and cooking a bit longer, it
਀洀愀欀攀猀 愀 猀眀攀攀琀 搀椀猀栀 眀栀椀挀栀 挀愀渀 戀攀 猀攀爀瘀攀搀 眀椀琀栀 挀爀攀愀洀⸀ഊ
਀㐀 挀甀瀀猀 挀甀挀甀洀戀攀爀猀Ⰰ 瀀愀爀攀搀Ⰰ 猀攀攀搀攀搀 愀渀搀 搀椀挀攀搀 ⠀椀昀 礀漀甀 甀猀攀 瀀椀挀欀氀椀渀最 挀甀欀攀猀 琀栀攀ഊtaste is more piquant; long salad cukes give you a sweeter result)
਀㄀ 挀甀瀀 搀爀椀攀搀 昀椀最猀Ⰰ 挀栀漀瀀瀀攀搀ഊ1 cup honey
਀㄀⼀㠀 琀猀瀀 最爀漀甀渀搀 挀氀漀瘀攀猀ഊ1/2 tsp ground cassia
਀㐀 挀甀瀀猀 甀渀搀攀爀ⴀ爀椀瀀攀 瀀攀愀爀猀Ⰰ 瀀攀攀氀攀搀Ⰰ 挀漀爀攀搀 ☀ 搀椀挀攀搀ഊ1 tbsp rosewater
਀ഊcombine cukes, figs, honey and spices; cook over medium low heat,
਀挀漀瘀攀爀攀搀Ⰰ 愀戀漀甀琀 ㈀　 洀椀渀甀琀攀猀⸀ 䄀搀搀 琀栀攀 瀀攀愀爀猀 愀渀搀 挀漀漀欀 㔀 洀椀渀甀琀攀猀 ⠀栀攀 猀愀礀猀⤀ 琀漀ഊ10 minutes (I say) and remove from heat-- the cukes and pears should
਀栀愀瘀攀 愀 猀椀洀椀氀愀爀 琀攀砀琀甀爀攀⸀ 䌀漀漀氀 琀漀 爀漀漀洀 琀攀洀瀀 愀渀搀 愀搀搀 琀栀攀 爀漀猀攀眀愀琀攀爀 ⠀礀漀甀ഊdon't really notice the rosewater if you put it in, stir and then
਀爀攀昀爀椀最攀爀愀琀攀 琀栀攀 挀漀洀瀀漀琀攀 漀瘀攀爀渀椀最栀琀⸀ഊ
਀䌀愀渀 愀氀猀漀 戀攀 猀攀爀瘀攀搀 栀漀琀 ⠀䤀 猀愀礀⤀⸀ഊ-- 
਀ⴀⴀ 䨀愀搀眀椀最愀 娀愀樀愀挀稀欀漀眀愀Ⰰ 䬀渀漀眀氀攀搀最攀 倀椀欀愀 樀攀渀渀攀 愀琀 昀椀攀搀氀攀爀昀愀洀椀氀礀⸀渀攀琀 ഊ
਀ഊDate: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 14:05:16 -0500
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 䔀氀愀椀渀攀 䬀漀漀最氀攀爀 㰀攀欀漀漀最氀攀爀㄀ 愀琀 挀漀洀挀愀猀琀⸀渀攀琀㸀ഊSubject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Any good Lamb recipes?
਀吀漀㨀 䌀漀漀欀猀 眀椀琀栀椀渀 琀栀攀 匀䌀䄀 㰀猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最㸀ഊ
਀㸀 椀琀 猀漀甀渀搀猀 最爀攀愀琀⸀ 䰀漀瘀攀 䌀漀甀猀挀漀甀猀 琀漀漀⸀ 䤀 栀愀瘀攀 栀攀愀爀搀 漀昀  戀甀琀 渀攀瘀攀爀 甀猀攀搀  ഊ> jujubee's.  I am assuming i would have to special order them.
਀㸀ഊ>   -Muiriath
਀ഊI managed to find them at an oriental grocery store.  You might try
਀∀最漀漀最氀椀渀最∀ 琀栀攀洀⸀  䨀甀猀琀 戀攀 挀愀爀攀昀甀氀 琀栀愀琀 礀漀甀 搀漀渀✀琀 最攀琀 琀栀攀 挀愀渀搀礀⸀  吀栀攀猀攀ഊare usually dried, about 3/4 the size of dates, kind of reddish brown in
਀挀漀氀漀爀Ⰰ 愀渀搀 琀栀攀 漀渀攀猀 䤀✀瘀攀 最漀琀琀攀渀 栀愀瘀攀 猀琀漀渀攀猀 椀渀 琀栀攀洀⸀  匀漀 琀栀攀礀✀爀攀 愀 瀀愀椀渀ഊin the "well anyway" to get off of the stones.  I'm planning to serve
਀琀栀椀猀 愀琀 愀渀 攀瘀攀渀琀 䤀✀洀 挀漀漀欀椀渀最 椀渀 䘀攀戀爀甀愀爀礀⸀ഊ
਀䬀椀爀椀ഊ
਀ഊDate: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 07:47:51 -0500
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀倀栀椀氀 吀爀漀礀 ⼀ 䜀⸀ 吀愀挀椀琀甀猀 䄀搀愀洀愀渀琀椀甀猀∀ഊ	<adamantius.magister at verizon.net>
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 䰀漀漀欀椀渀最 昀漀爀 椀渀昀漀 漀渀 洀甀氀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 愀渀搀 洀甀爀爀攀礀ഊTo: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
਀ഊOn Jan 18, 2006, at 12:44 AM, Stefan li Rous wrote:
਀ഊ> I got this question this evening from a Florilegium reader.  I can
਀㸀 爀攀洀攀洀戀攀爀 洀甀氀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 戀攀椀渀最 搀椀猀挀甀猀猀攀搀 栀攀爀攀 漀渀氀礀 愀 氀椀琀琀氀攀 戀椀琀 愀渀搀 琀栀攀ഊ> only "murrey" which I remember discussing there was the Arabian
਀㸀 挀漀渀搀椀洀攀渀琀 ∀洀甀爀爀椀∀ 洀愀搀攀 昀爀漀洀 爀漀琀琀攀渀⼀昀攀爀洀攀渀琀攀搀 戀愀爀氀攀礀⸀ഊ>
਀㸀 䤀✀搀 戀攀 椀渀琀攀爀攀猀琀攀搀 椀渀 猀攀攀椀渀最 愀渀礀 挀漀洀洀攀渀琀猀 愀渀礀漀渀攀 栀愀猀 漀渀 瀀攀爀椀漀搀 甀猀攀ഊ> of mulberries or this murrey. Please remember though to copy her on
਀㸀 愀渀礀 洀攀猀猀愀最攀猀 漀渀 琀栀椀猀 猀甀戀樀攀挀琀Ⰰ 愀猀 猀栀攀 椀猀 渀漀琀 漀渀 琀栀椀猀 氀椀猀琀⸀ഊ>
਀㸀㸀      䤀✀瘀攀 最漀琀 愀 焀甀椀挀欀 焀甀攀猀琀椀漀渀 愀戀漀甀琀 猀漀洀攀琀栀椀渀最 䤀 挀愀洀攀 愀挀爀漀猀猀 椀渀 愀ഊ>> book called "Uncommon Fruits Worthy of Attention" (by Lee Reich).
਀㸀㸀 䤀渀 琀栀攀 猀攀挀琀椀漀渀 漀渀 洀甀氀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀Ⰰ 琀栀攀 愀甀琀栀漀爀 猀愀礀猀 琀栀愀琀 椀渀 洀攀搀椀攀瘀愀氀ഊ>> times, mulberries were used to make something called "murrey",
਀㸀㸀 眀栀椀挀栀 栀攀 搀攀猀挀爀椀戀攀搀 愀猀 愀 瀀甀搀搀椀渀最 漀爀 愀 猀愀甀挀攀 昀漀爀 洀攀愀琀猀⸀  圀栀攀渀 䤀ഊ>> tried to look for a recipe for murrey (on the Internet), all I
਀㸀㸀 挀漀甀氀搀 昀椀渀搀 眀愀猀 琀栀攀 搀攀猀挀爀椀瀀琀椀漀渀 漀昀 洀甀爀爀攀礀 愀猀 愀 挀漀氀漀爀 椀渀 栀攀爀愀氀搀爀礀Ⰰഊ>> not as a food at all.
਀㸀㸀      䌀愀渀 礀漀甀 猀栀攀搀 猀漀洀攀 氀椀最栀琀 漀渀 琀栀椀猀 昀漀爀 洀攀 瀀氀攀愀猀攀㼀  吀栀愀渀欀猀 猀漀 洀甀挀栀⸀ഊ>>
਀㸀㸀 䤀渀 猀攀爀瘀椀挀攀Ⰰഊ>> Lady Corinna Lionwynde
਀㸀㸀 ⠀洀欀愀 匀礀氀瘀椀愀 匀栀甀氀琀猀⤀ഊ>> pompeii100 at yahoo.com
਀ഊ  From MS D, ff. 86r-96v, a.k.a. "Ancient Cookery", a.k.a. Book II of
਀∀䌀甀爀礀攀 伀渀 䤀渀最氀礀猀挀栀攀∀Ⰰ ✀䐀椀甀攀爀猀愀 匀攀爀瘀椀猀愀✀Ⰰ 挀⸀ ㄀㌀㠀㄀ 䌀䔀㨀ഊ
਀∀㌀㜀ऀ䘀漀爀 琀漀 洀愀欀攀 洀甀爀爀攀礀Ⰰ 琀愀欀 洀甀氀戀攀爀礀 ☀ 戀爀愀礀 栀攀洀 椀渀 愀 洀漀爀琀攀爀 ☀ 眀爀礀渀最ഊhem (th)orh a clo(th), & do hem in a pot ouer (th)e fyre; & do (th)
਀攀爀攀琀漀 戀爀攀搀 ☀ 眀礀琀攀 最爀攀猀猀攀Ⰰ ☀ 氀攀琀 礀琀 渀愀㌀琀 戀漀礀氀攀 渀漀渀 漀昀琀攀爀 ⠀琀栀⤀愀渀 漀渀礀猀⸀ഊ& do (th)ereto a god perty of sugur, & 3if yt be no3t ynowe colowrd
਀戀爀攀礀 洀甀氀戀甀爀甀猀㬀 ☀ 猀攀爀甀攀 礀琀 昀漀爀⠀琀栀⤀攀⸀∀ഊ
਀嬀㌀㜀⸀ 吀漀 洀愀欀攀 洀甀爀爀攀礀Ⰰ 琀愀欀攀 洀甀氀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀 愀渀搀 挀爀甀猀栀 琀栀攀洀 椀渀 愀 洀漀爀琀愀爀Ⰰ 愀渀搀ഊwring them through a cloth [puree/strain them], and put them in a pot
਀漀瘀攀爀 琀栀攀 昀椀爀攀⸀ 䄀搀搀 眀栀椀琀攀 戀爀攀愀搀 嬀挀爀甀洀戀 瀀漀爀琀椀漀渀Ⰰ 猀漀愀欀攀搀 愀猀 昀漀爀ഊthickener] and white grease [probably rendered lard], and let it come
਀琀漀 愀 戀漀椀氀 渀漀 洀漀爀攀 漀昀琀攀渀 琀栀愀渀 漀渀挀攀⸀ 䄀渀搀 愀搀搀 愀 最漀漀搀 愀洀漀甀渀琀 漀昀 猀甀最愀爀Ⰰഊand if it is not colored enough crush more mulberries, and serve it
਀昀漀爀琀栀⸀崀ഊ
਀吀栀攀爀攀✀猀 愀 猀攀爀椀攀猀 漀昀 昀愀椀爀氀礀 猀椀洀椀氀愀爀Ⰰ 最攀渀攀爀椀挀 洀攀搀椀攀瘀愀氀 䔀渀最氀椀猀栀ഊpottages, all based on crushed fruit (raspberries, strawberries,
਀挀栀攀爀爀椀攀猀Ⰰ 攀琀挀⸀⤀Ⰰ 愀氀氀Ⰰ 昀漀爀 琀栀攀 洀漀猀琀 瀀愀爀琀Ⰰ 渀愀洀攀搀 昀漀爀 琀栀攀 昀爀甀椀琀 椀渀ഊquestion. I see these as more like a thick fruit soup than the
਀瀀甀搀搀椀渀最猀 瀀攀漀瀀氀攀 漀昀琀攀渀 椀渀琀攀爀瀀爀攀琀 琀栀攀洀 愀猀 ⴀⴀ 琀栀攀爀攀✀猀 渀漀 椀渀猀琀爀甀挀琀椀漀渀ഊhere to make the dish "standing" or "chargeaunt", so I'm not sure why
਀猀漀 洀愀渀礀 瀀攀漀瀀氀攀 愀猀猀甀洀攀 椀琀✀猀 猀甀瀀瀀漀猀攀搀 琀漀 戀攀 猀漀 琀栀椀挀欀⸀ഊ
਀匀瀀攀挀椀昀椀挀愀氀氀礀 爀攀最愀爀搀椀渀最 洀甀爀爀攀礀Ⰰ 琀栀攀爀攀✀猀 洀漀爀攀 琀栀愀渀 漀渀攀 猀甀挀栀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀ഊavailable, including an earlier one which appears to contain no
਀洀甀氀戀攀爀爀椀攀猀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 眀栀椀挀栀 椀猀 琀栀椀挀欀攀渀攀搀 氀椀欀攀 琀栀攀 爀攀猀琀 愀渀搀 挀漀氀漀爀攀搀 眀椀琀栀ഊsaunders to resemble a berry dish. Some versions of these pottages
਀猀瀀攀挀椀昀礀 洀攀愀琀 ⠀攀椀琀栀攀爀 挀愀氀氀椀渀最 昀漀爀 椀琀 愀猀 愀渀 椀渀最爀攀搀椀攀渀琀 漀爀 洀攀渀琀椀漀渀椀渀最 椀渀ഊpassing that the dish is to be poured over meat), and some don't, but
਀椀琀✀猀 挀漀渀挀攀椀瘀愀戀氀攀 琀栀愀琀 琀栀攀 漀渀攀猀 琀栀愀琀 搀漀渀✀琀 洀攀渀琀椀漀渀 椀琀 挀漀甀氀搀 猀琀椀氀氀 戀攀ഊconsidered sauces.
਀ഊAdamantius
਀ഊ
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 䴀漀渀Ⰰ ㈀　 一漀瘀 ㈀　　㘀 ㄀㤀㨀㐀㔀㨀㌀　 ⴀ　㘀　　ഊFrom: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 一攀漀氀椀琀栀椀挀 昀椀最 愀最爀椀挀甀氀琀甀爀攀 愀渀搀 猀琀漀爀愀最攀 昀椀渀搀ഊTo: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
਀ഊ> So what is the advantage of growing a parthenocarpic plant, compared
਀㸀 琀漀 琀栀攀 爀攀最甀氀愀爀 瘀攀爀猀椀漀渀㼀 䤀琀 猀漀甀渀搀猀 氀椀欀攀 琀栀攀礀 琀愀欀攀 洀漀爀攀 攀昀昀漀爀琀 琀漀 爀愀椀猀攀ഊ> than the regular version. Is it just the advantage of not having to
਀㸀 搀攀愀氀 眀椀琀栀 愀 猀攀攀搀㼀ഊ>
਀㸀 匀琀攀昀愀渀ഊ
਀夀漀甀 最攀琀 洀漀爀攀 攀搀椀戀氀攀 洀愀猀猀 瀀攀爀 昀爀甀椀琀⸀  䨀甀猀琀 挀漀洀瀀愀爀攀 搀漀洀攀猀琀椀挀愀琀攀搀 戀愀渀愀渀愀猀 眀椀琀栀ഊthe heavily seeded wild varieties.  Because parthenocarpy requires external
਀椀渀琀攀爀瘀攀渀琀椀漀渀 琀漀 爀攀瀀爀漀搀甀挀攀Ⰰ 椀琀 椀猀 漀昀琀攀渀 挀漀渀猀椀搀攀爀攀搀 愀 猀椀最渀 漀昀 搀漀洀攀猀琀椀挀愀琀椀漀渀⸀ഊIn return for the effort, you get a greater yield.
਀ഊBear
਀ഊ
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 匀甀渀Ⰰ ㌀ 䄀甀最 ㈀　　㠀 ㈀㈀㨀㄀　㨀㐀㠀 ⴀ　㐀　　ഊFrom: "Sam Wallace" <guillaumedep at bellsouth.net>
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 唀猀攀猀 昀漀爀 昀爀攀猀栀 愀瀀爀椀挀漀琀猀㼀㼀㼀ഊTo: <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
਀ഊ<<< I'm looking for recipes (period or not) that make use of fresh apricots. 
਀ഊ--Maire >>>
਀ഊI thought the shortcake recipes in Mrs. Lincoln's Boston Cook Book 
਀⠀栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀搀椀最椀琀愀氀⸀氀椀戀⸀洀猀甀⸀攀搀甀⼀瀀爀漀樀攀挀琀猀⼀挀漀漀欀戀漀漀欀猀⼀⤀ 氀漀漀欀攀搀 椀渀琀攀爀攀猀琀椀渀最⸀ 䄀氀猀漀Ⰰ ഊif you look in Rumpolt's work, you will find mention of candying apricot 
਀欀攀爀渀攀氀猀 ⠀栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀挀氀攀洀⸀洀猀挀搀⸀攀搀甀⼀─㜀䔀最爀愀猀猀攀⼀䜀䬀开稀甀挀欀攀爀㄀⸀栀琀洀⤀⸀ 䤀 氀漀漀欀攀搀 琀栀椀猀 甀瀀 ഊwhen I was doing a feast based in part on this work and found a couple of 
਀洀漀搀攀爀渀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀猀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 搀椀搀 渀漀琀 欀攀攀瀀 洀礀 渀漀琀攀猀 漀渀 琀栀愀琀 琀漀瀀椀挀⸀ഊ
਀䜀甀椀氀氀愀甀洀攀ഊ
਀ഊDate: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 15:57:20 -0500
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀吀攀爀爀礀 䐀攀挀欀攀爀∀ 㰀琀⸀搀⸀搀攀挀欀攀爀 愀琀 眀漀爀氀搀渀攀琀⸀愀琀琀⸀渀攀琀㸀ഊSubject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Can you identify the food?
਀吀漀㨀 ∀䌀漀漀欀猀 眀椀琀栀椀渀 琀栀攀 匀䌀䄀∀ 㰀猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 氀椀猀琀猀⸀愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最㸀ഊ
਀伀渀 圀攀搀Ⰰ 匀攀瀀 ㌀Ⰰ ㈀　　㠀 愀琀 㜀㨀㐀㐀 䄀䴀Ⰰ 䨀漀栀渀渀愀 䠀漀氀氀漀眀愀礀 㰀樀漀栀渀渀愀攀 愀琀 洀愀挀⸀挀漀洀㸀 眀爀漀琀攀㨀ഊ> Pomelos are introduced later too.
਀㸀 吀栀攀椀爀 猀欀椀渀 琀攀渀搀猀 琀漀 戀攀 洀漀爀攀 最爀攀攀渀椀猀栀⸀ഊ> Like Bear, I would guess it's a Citron. I've seen both.
਀ഊ<<< I am 95% sure that there is a recipe involving pomelos in Granado
਀⠀㄀㔀㤀㤀⤀⸀  䤀✀氀氀 挀栀攀挀欀 眀栀攀渀 䤀 最攀琀 栀漀洀攀⸀ഊ-- 
਀䈀爀椀最栀椀搀 渀椀 䌀栀椀愀爀愀椀渀 㸀㸀㸀ഊ
਀倀漀洀攀氀漀 椀猀 愀 ㄀㤀琀栀 挀攀渀琀甀爀礀 䔀渀最氀椀猀栀 瘀愀爀椀愀渀琀 漀昀 琀栀攀 ㄀㜀琀栀 䌀攀渀琀甀爀礀 䐀甀琀挀栀 ഊ"pompelmoes" or "pompelmousse."    Granado may have a recipe with pomelos, 
਀戀甀琀 礀漀甀 洀椀最栀琀 眀愀渀琀 琀漀 搀漀甀戀氀攀 挀栀攀挀欀 漀爀椀最椀渀愀氀 甀猀愀最攀 愀渀搀 琀爀愀渀猀氀愀琀椀漀渀 椀渀 琀栀攀 ഊSpanish.
਀ഊBear 
਀ഊ
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 圀攀搀Ⰰ ㌀ 匀攀瀀 ㈀　　㠀 ㈀㌀㨀㌀㈀㨀　㤀 ⴀ　㔀　　ഊFrom: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 䌀愀渀 礀漀甀 椀搀攀渀琀椀昀礀 琀栀攀 昀漀漀搀㼀ഊTo: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
਀ഊ<snip>
਀ഊ<<< Pomelo is a 19th century English variant of the 17th Century Dutch
਀∀瀀漀洀瀀攀氀洀漀攀猀∀ 漀爀 ∀瀀漀洀瀀攀氀洀漀甀猀猀攀⸀∀    䜀爀愀渀愀搀漀 洀愀礀 栀愀瘀攀 愀 爀攀挀椀瀀攀 眀椀琀栀 瀀漀洀攀氀漀猀Ⰰഊbut you might want to double check original usage and translation in the
਀匀瀀愀渀椀猀栀⸀ 㸀㸀㸀ഊ
਀㰀⼀猀渀椀瀀㸀ഊ
਀一漀琀 猀甀爀攀 栀漀眀 爀攀氀攀瘀愀渀琀 琀栀椀猀 椀猀Ⰰ 戀甀琀 䤀 戀攀氀椀攀瘀攀 琀栀愀琀 瀀漀洀瀀攀氀洀漀甀猀猀攀 琀爀愀渀猀氀愀琀攀猀ഊinto grapefruit, although I'm blitzing on whether it's from the French or
਀琀栀攀 䜀攀爀洀愀渀⸀ 䰀椀瘀椀渀最 椀渀 䌀愀渀愀搀愀Ⰰ 愀氀琀栀漀甀最栀 栀愀瘀椀渀最 猀琀甀搀椀攀搀 䜀攀爀洀愀渀 椀渀 䠀椀最栀 ഊSchool in the US, gets my root words mixed up sometimes....
਀ഊIlsebet
਀ⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀഊ
਀倀愀洀瀀攀氀洀㼀猀攀 椀猀 琀栀攀 䜀攀爀洀愀渀⸀  䤀琀 琀爀愀渀猀氀愀琀攀猀 琀漀 戀漀琀栀 最爀愀瀀攀昀爀甀椀琀 愀渀搀 猀栀愀搀搀漀挀欀 ഊ(pomelo).  The Dutch "pompelmoes" appears to derive directly from the Malay 
਀∀瀀甀洀瀀甀氀洀愀猀⸀∀  吀栀椀猀 猀甀最最攀猀琀猀 琀栀愀琀 最攀渀攀爀愀氀 䔀甀爀漀瀀攀愀渀 欀渀漀眀氀攀搀最攀 漀昀 琀栀攀 昀爀甀椀琀 搀椀搀 ഊnot occur until the trading ventures of the 17th Century, which would have 
਀洀愀搀攀 昀漀爀 愀 爀愀琀栀攀爀 昀愀猀琀 洀椀最爀愀琀椀漀渀 昀爀漀洀 䄀猀椀愀 琀漀 琀栀攀 䌀愀爀椀戀戀攀愀渀Ⰰ 愀猀 琀栀攀 昀爀甀椀琀 ഊappears to have arrived there in the late 17th Century.
਀ഊThe essential issue is that the various forms of the word and their usage 
਀愀瀀瀀攀愀爀 琀漀 戀攀 瀀漀猀琀ⴀ㄀㘀　　Ⰰ 眀栀椀挀栀 氀攀愀瘀攀猀 琀栀攀 琀爀愀渀猀氀愀琀椀漀渀 漀昀 愀渀礀 瀀爀攀ⴀ㄀㘀　　 ഊreference to pomelos or grapefruit open to question.
਀ഊIt is possible that grapefruit or pomelos were introduced into Spain either 
਀戀礀 琀栀攀 䄀爀愀戀猀 漀爀 昀爀漀洀 䄀猀椀愀 瘀椀愀 倀漀爀琀甀最愀氀 愀渀搀 琀栀攀 猀瀀椀挀攀 琀爀愀搀攀 瀀爀椀漀爀 琀漀 ㄀㘀　　⸀ ഊIf the translation is accurate, then derivation and contemporary usage 
਀戀攀挀漀洀攀 挀爀椀琀椀挀愀氀 椀渀 爀漀甀最栀氀礀 搀攀琀攀爀洀椀渀椀渀最 眀栀愀琀 椀猀 戀攀椀渀最 搀攀猀挀爀椀戀攀搀 愀渀搀 琀栀攀 ഊhistory of the fruit in Europe.  According to some sources, the fruit was 
਀椀渀琀爀漀搀甀挀攀搀 琀漀 匀瀀愀椀渀 戀礀 琀栀攀 䄀爀愀戀猀⸀  䤀 栀愀瘀攀 礀攀琀 琀漀 猀攀攀 愀 搀攀昀椀渀椀琀椀瘀攀 愀爀最甀洀攀渀琀 ഊfor that opinion.
਀ഊBear 
਀ഊ
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 吀栀甀Ⰰ 㐀 匀攀瀀 ㈀　　㠀 　　㨀㔀㠀㨀　㄀ ⴀ　㐀　　ഊFrom: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <rcarrollmann at gmail.com>
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 䌀愀渀 礀漀甀 椀搀攀渀琀椀昀礀 琀栀攀 昀漀漀搀㼀ഊTo: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
਀ഊI dug out my copy of Granado (a modern transcription in Spanish), and
਀昀漀甀渀搀 䤀 眀愀猀 洀椀猀琀愀欀攀渀⸀  吀栀攀 眀漀爀搀 椀猀 渀漀琀 ∀瀀漀洀攀氀漀猀∀ 戀甀琀 ∀琀漀爀漀渀樀愀猀∀⸀  䤀ഊcan't find the magnifier for my micro-print edition of Covarrubias,
਀戀甀琀 䤀 琀栀椀渀欀 ∀琀漀爀漀渀樀愀∀ 椀猀 愀 瘀愀爀椀攀琀礀 漀昀 挀椀琀爀漀渀⸀  䤀渀 愀渀礀 挀愀猀攀Ⰰ 椀琀 椀猀ഊ*not* a pomelo.  I apologize for jumping in before I check my
਀椀渀昀漀爀洀愀琀椀漀渀⸀ഊ-- 
਀䈀爀椀最栀椀搀 渀椀 䌀栀椀愀爀愀椀渀ഊ
਀ഊDate: Thu, 4 Sep 2008 11:22:57 -0500
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 ∀吀攀爀爀礀 䐀攀挀欀攀爀∀ 㰀琀⸀搀⸀搀攀挀欀攀爀 愀琀 眀漀爀氀搀渀攀琀⸀愀琀琀⸀渀攀琀㸀ഊSubject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Can you identify the food?
਀吀漀㨀 ∀䌀漀漀欀猀 眀椀琀栀椀渀 琀栀攀 匀䌀䄀∀ 㰀猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 氀椀猀琀猀⸀愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最㸀ഊ
਀ⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀ 伀爀椀最椀渀愀氀 䴀攀猀猀愀最攀 ⴀⴀⴀⴀⴀ ഊFrom: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" <audreybmorin at gmail.com>
਀ഊ> Pampelm?se is the German.
਀ഊAnd pamplemousse the French. And it translates as grapefruit. But
਀搀漀渀✀琀 欀渀漀眀 琀栀攀 漀爀椀最椀渀猀 漀昀 琀栀攀 眀漀爀搀 ⴀ 椀琀 挀漀甀氀搀 戀攀 䜀攀爀洀愀渀Ⰰ 昀漀爀 愀氀氀 䤀ഊknow.
਀开开开开开开开开开开开开开开开开开开开开开开开开开开开开开开开开开开开开开开开开开开开开开开开ഊ
਀吀栀攀 搀攀爀椀瘀愀琀椀漀渀 愀瀀瀀攀愀爀猀 琀漀 戀攀 䴀愀氀愀礀 琀漀 䐀甀琀挀栀 琀栀攀渀 椀渀琀漀 䘀爀攀渀挀栀Ⰰ 䜀攀爀洀愀渀 愀渀搀 ഊEnglish.  The rise of the Dutch East India Company and the end of Spanish 
਀爀甀氀攀 椀渀 琀栀攀 䰀漀眀氀愀渀搀猀 戀漀琀栀 漀挀挀甀爀 ⠀䤀䤀刀䌀⤀ 椀渀 琀栀攀 昀椀爀猀琀 焀甀愀爀琀攀爀 漀昀 琀栀攀 ㄀㜀琀栀 ഊCentury during a period when Portugal was controlled by Spain, so linguistic 
਀琀爀愀渀猀昀攀爀 戀攀琀眀攀攀渀 匀瀀愀椀渀Ⰰ 倀漀爀琀甀最愀氀 愀渀搀 琀栀攀 䰀漀眀氀愀渀搀猀 椀猀 愀 戀椀琀 甀渀挀氀攀愀爀⸀ഊ
਀吀栀攀 䴀愀氀愀礀 ∀瀀甀洀瀀甀氀洀愀猀∀ 洀愀礀 戀攀 搀攀爀椀瘀攀搀 昀爀漀洀 愀渀漀琀栀攀爀 愀猀 礀攀琀 甀渀搀攀琀攀爀洀椀渀攀搀 䄀猀椀愀渀 ഊlanguage.
਀ഊBear 
਀ഊ
਀䐀愀琀攀㨀 吀栀甀Ⰰ 㐀 匀攀瀀 ㈀　　㠀 ㄀㄀㨀㔀㔀㨀㐀㜀 ⴀ　㔀　　ഊFrom: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
਀匀甀戀樀攀挀琀㨀 刀攀㨀 嬀匀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀崀 䌀愀渀 礀漀甀 椀搀攀渀琀椀昀礀 琀栀攀 昀漀漀搀㼀ഊTo: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
਀ഊ<<< I dug out my copy of Granado (a modern transcription in Spanish), and
਀昀漀甀渀搀 䤀 眀愀猀 洀椀猀琀愀欀攀渀⸀  吀栀攀 眀漀爀搀 椀猀 渀漀琀 ∀瀀漀洀攀氀漀猀∀ 戀甀琀 ∀琀漀爀漀渀樀愀猀∀⸀  䤀ഊcan't find the magnifier for my micro-print edition of Covarrubias,
਀戀甀琀 䤀 琀栀椀渀欀 ∀琀漀爀漀渀樀愀∀ 椀猀 愀 瘀愀爀椀攀琀礀 漀昀 挀椀琀爀漀渀⸀  䤀渀 愀渀礀 挀愀猀攀Ⰰ 椀琀 椀猀ഊ*not* a pomelo.  I apologize for jumping in before I check my
਀椀渀昀漀爀洀愀琀椀漀渀⸀ഊ-- 
਀䈀爀椀最栀椀搀 渀椀 䌀栀椀愀爀愀椀渀 㸀㸀㸀ഊ
਀倀氀攀愀猀攀 搀漀渀✀琀 愀瀀漀氀漀最椀稀攀⸀  吀栀攀 挀甀爀爀攀渀琀 洀攀愀渀椀渀最 漀昀  ∀琀漀爀漀渀樀愀∀ 椀猀 最爀愀瀀攀昀爀甀椀琀⸀ ഊAnd modern Spanish appears to differentiate between toronjas and pomelos.
਀ഊI took a quick look at a couple of Spanish sites discussing toronjas.  From 
਀琀栀攀 氀椀琀琀氀攀 䤀 眀愀猀 愀戀氀攀 琀漀 琀爀愀渀猀氀愀琀攀Ⰰ 琀漀爀漀渀樀愀猀 漀爀椀最椀渀愀琀攀 椀渀 琀栀攀 䌀愀爀椀戀戀攀愀渀Ⰰ ഊwhich means the word may have been transferred to the grapefruit after it 
਀眀愀猀 栀礀戀爀椀搀椀稀攀搀 昀爀漀洀 琀栀攀 瀀漀洀攀氀漀⸀  吀栀攀 焀甀攀猀琀椀漀渀 椀猀Ⰰ 眀栀愀琀 搀椀搀 琀栀攀 眀漀爀搀 洀攀愀渀 椀渀 ഊ1599?  The similarity of toronja to naranja suggests that the word is a 
਀搀攀爀椀瘀愀琀椀漀渀 昀爀漀洀 䄀爀愀戀椀挀 愀渀搀 椀昀 椀琀 眀愀猀 甀猀攀搀 琀漀 搀攀猀挀爀椀戀攀 愀 最爀愀瀀攀昀爀甀椀琀ⴀ氀椀欀攀 ഊcitrus in 1599, then it may be evidence of the Arabic introduction of 
਀瀀漀洀攀氀漀猀 椀渀琀漀 匀瀀愀椀渀⸀ഊ
਀吀栀攀 琀攀爀洀 最爀愀瀀攀昀爀甀椀琀 椀猀 愀 洀椀搀ⴀ㄀㤀琀栀 䌀攀渀琀甀爀礀 䄀洀攀爀椀挀愀渀 爀攀昀攀爀攀渀挀攀 琀漀 愀 猀洀愀氀氀攀爀 ഊvariant of the shaddock, which suggests that equating "toronjas" with 
਀∀最爀愀瀀攀昀爀甀椀琀∀ 椀猀 愀 爀攀氀愀琀椀瘀攀氀礀 洀漀搀攀爀渀 漀挀挀甀爀爀攀渀挀攀⸀ഊ
਀䈀攀愀爀 ഊ
਀ഊDate: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 23:59:55 -0500
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 匀漀氀瘀攀椀最 吀栀爀漀渀搀愀爀搀漀琀琀椀爀 㰀渀漀猀琀爀愀渀搀 愀琀 愀挀洀⸀漀爀最㸀ഊSubject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Persimmons
਀吀漀㨀 樀愀渀攀洀攀爀爀椀氀攀攀猀 愀琀 礀愀栀漀漀⸀挀漀洀Ⰰऀ䌀漀漀欀猀 眀椀琀栀椀渀 琀栀攀 匀䌀䄀ഊ	<sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
਀ഊ> I have been gifted with a half gallon of small, wild persimmons.
਀ഊThere are several varieties of persimmon. If they are shaped like a  
਀琀漀洀愀琀漀Ⰰ 琀栀攀渀 琀栀攀渀 琀栀攀礀 洀愀礀 戀攀 琀栀攀 愀洀愀 欀愀欀椀 瘀愀爀椀攀琀礀⸀ 吀栀攀猀攀 愀爀攀 焀甀椀琀攀  ഊyummy. Once they stop looking green and are instead a nice orange,  
਀愀氀氀 礀漀甀 栀愀瘀攀 琀漀 搀漀 椀猀 挀甀琀 琀栀攀洀 甀瀀 愀渀搀 攀愀琀 琀栀攀洀⸀ഊ
਀䈀愀猀椀挀愀氀氀礀Ⰰ 䤀 愀洀 眀爀椀琀椀渀最 愀戀漀甀琀 瀀攀爀猀椀洀洀漀渀猀 琀栀愀琀 氀漀漀欀 氀椀欀攀 琀栀椀猀㨀ഊ
਀栀琀琀瀀㨀⼀⼀猀攀漀猀漀渀⸀猀㠀㠀⸀砀爀攀愀⸀挀漀洀⼀愀甀琀甀洀渀⼀愀爀挀栀椀瘀攀猀⼀愀渀琀攀渀渀愀㄀　⸀樀瀀最ഊ
਀匀漀氀瘀攀椀最 吀栀爀漀渀搀愀爀搀漀琀琀椀爀ഊ
਀ഊDate: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 07:41:18 -0800 (PST)
਀䘀爀漀洀㨀 䨀愀渀攀 䴀攀爀爀椀氀攀攀猀 㰀樀愀渀攀洀攀爀爀椀氀攀攀猀 愀琀 礀愀栀漀漀⸀挀漀洀㸀ഊSubject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Persimmons
਀吀漀㨀 䌀漀漀欀猀 眀椀琀栀椀渀 琀栀攀 匀䌀䄀 㰀猀挀愀ⴀ挀漀漀欀猀 愀琀 氀椀猀琀猀⸀愀渀猀琀攀漀爀爀愀⸀漀爀最㸀ഊ
਀ⴀⴀⴀ 伀渀 䴀漀渀Ⰰ ㄀㄀⼀㈀㐀⼀　㠀Ⰰ 䄀甀搀爀攀礀 䈀攀爀最攀爀漀渀ⴀ䴀漀爀椀渀 㰀愀甀搀爀攀礀戀洀漀爀椀渀 愀琀 最洀愀椀氀⸀挀漀洀㸀 眀爀漀琀攀㨀ഊ<<< Once they
਀猀琀漀瀀 氀漀漀欀椀渀最 最爀攀攀渀 愀渀搀 愀爀攀 椀渀猀琀攀愀搀 愀 渀椀挀攀 漀爀愀渀最攀Ⰰ 愀氀氀 礀漀甀 栀愀瘀攀 琀漀 搀漀 椀猀 挀甀琀ഊthem up and eat them. >>>
਀ഊActually... they're better if you wait until you think they're way too
਀爀椀瀀攀Ⰰ 琀栀愀琀 椀猀Ⰰ 愀氀氀 眀爀椀渀欀氀攀搀 愀渀搀 猀瀀氀漀琀挀栀礀⸀ 吀䠀䔀一Ⰰ 琀栀攀礀✀爀攀 爀攀愀氀氀礀 礀甀洀洀礀℀ഊ.....................................................................
਀ഊYou are right on the mark! Wild persimmons look very different than the asian variety in the link. I don't know about the taste, have been afraid of being disappointed at $1 each so have never indulged. The problem is there are too many for a type II diabetic to eat fresh. I have a wonderful family persimmon pudding receipe,I'm going to try with splenda. (Better than nothing.) But what to do with the rest? I'm a displaced Hoosier and was raised on this wonderful dessert. I was taken to the persimmon festival several times as a child. Foodie heaven.
਀ഊElspeth of Myrge Laese 
਀ഊ<the end>
਀䔀搀椀琀攀搀 戀礀 䴀愀爀欀 匀⸀ 䠀愀爀爀椀猀ऀ昀爀甀椀琀猀ⴀ洀猀最ऀ倀愀最攀 㐀㘀 漀昀 㐀㘀ഊ
ਊ