fruit-quinces-msg – 12/15/14 Medieval uses and recipes for quinces. NOTE: See also these files: fruits-msg, apples-msg, fruit-citrus-msg, fruit-melons-msg, desserts-msg, fruit-pears-msg, marmalades-msg, Period-Fruit-art, Hst-U-o-Aples-art, crabapples-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ From: Stephen Bloch Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 15:30:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: SC - An Introduction and a question. > Now for the question .I'm getting married in September and would like to make > preserves or a jelly of some kind as favors. What I need to know is how > period are preserves and jelly? Also what types of fruit would have been > used? One last thing does anyone have recepies or redactions? Quince Pastes (_Le Mesnagier de Paris_) <<313. Pour Faire condoignac. Prenez les coings et les pelez. Puis fendez par quartiers et ostez l'ueil et les pepins. Puis cuisier en bon vin rouge et puis soient coulez parmi une estamine. Puis prenez du miel et le faictes longuement boulir et escumer, et apres mectez vos coings dedens et remuez tresbien, et le faictes tant boulir que le miel se reviengne a moins la moictie. Puis gectez dedens pouldre d'ypocras et remuez tant qu'il soit tout froit. Puis tailliez par morceaulx et les gardez.>> (l. 3213-3221) "To make quince pastes. Take quinces and peel them. Then cut them in quarters and remove the eyes and the seeds. Then cook them in good red wine and then run them through a strainer. Then take honey and boil it a long time and skim off the scum, and afterwards put your quinces in it and stir it very well, and boil it until the honey reduces by half. Then add hypocras powder stir it again until it cools. Then cut it into pieces and store it." I'm not sure whose translation this is. Again, I'll have to ask my wife's permission to post her redaction, which depending on exactly how you cook it produces something ranging from jam to chewy candy to fruit leather. We have two Zip-loc bags of them in the freezer right now (they're very hygroscopic, i.e. if they're out in a humid place they absorb water from the air and get REALLY STICKY). mar-Joshua ibn-Eleazar ha-Shalib Stephen Bloch sbloch at panther.adelphi.edu http://www.adelphi.edu/~sbloch/ Math/CS Dept, Adelphi University From: david friedman Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 15:27:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: SC - Roasted apples! At 8:48 AM +0000 5/26/97, Jessica Tiffin wrote: >I've just tracked down and devoured a copy of the Goodman of Paris >(wonderful stuff). He refers to "roasted apples" in many of his >feast menus. I'm assuming that this is a standard sort of baked >apple - would anyone know precisely how they were cooked in period? > >Melesine There is a recipe for baked quinces in Chiquart's cookbook (15th c. French, as opposed to the Goodman's late 14th c.) and roughly the same recipe for quinces or pears ("wardons") in Two Fifteenth Century Cookery Books (English). You have a bottom crust, core your quinces or whatever from the top without breaking through the bottom, put them on the crust, fill with sugar (and in the English, ginger; or honey with pepper and ginger) and put on a top crust. Bake. Very good, but the pie looks decidedly lumpy. Elizabeth Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 19:13:38 +1000 From: Robyn Probert Subject: SC - RE: Recipes as promised (long) TOMC = The Original Mediterranean Cuisine TFCC = Two Fifteenth Century Cookery Books Quinces in general. Good ones are bright yellow with a tinge of green. If they are wrinkled at the ends they are getting too old. They store pretty well, but will perfume your entire pantry (good/bad). Before use, scrub off the brown fuzz under the tap. The easiest way to peel them is to boil, then peel off the fine skin, or you can use a vegetable peeler. They brown very quickly, so you need to drop them in acidulated water (water + lemon - see prev discussion on list). Quince Paste TOMC The recipie given here is a quince paste made with honey, which I have not made successfully. I'll type this in if someone wants it, but here is a recipie made with sugar (one of many I have) which is pretty easy. This one is my version of the one in TOMC, supplied there in place of Barbara Stantich's usual redaction.... Take 3 quinces and scrub off the fuzz. Put them in a pan (i layer thick) and cover with cold water. Bring to the boil, cover, reduce heat and simmer for 2 hours. Remove quinces and allow to cool - save the cooking liquid*. Once cook, peel off the fine skin, then break soft flesh away from the gritty core - save the cores*. Puree/blen/process. Weigh the puree and add a bit less than the same weight in sugar. Add 2 cinnamon sticks. Bring to a low boil for 30 mins, stirring frequently (NB - it will spit quince napalm at you). Cook until extremely thick or you run out of patience. Remove the cinnamon and pur out onto trays lined with silicon paper to about 1 cm thick (half inch). Cool, then dry out in the sun or a very low oven, then turn out and dry the other side. Store layered up with sugar and bay leaves. *I used to throw out the liqid, but last time I made it into quince jelly - perfectly clear without using a jelly bag! Measure your liquid (volume) and return to a clean pot. (For 3 quinces I had 750 ml of juice) Add about an equal volume of sugar and the cores (tied in fine cloth). Bring to the boil, simmer and skim for about 20 minutes, then remove the cores and discard. Turn off the heat, add the strained juice of a lemon and 150 ml white wine. Skim and pot as usual. Great as a preserve, or to glaze apple tarts with for extra flavour. To bake quince pies (The Good Huswife's Handmaid, 1594) "Pare them and cut out the core; then perboil them in water till they be tender; then take them foorth, and let the water run from them till they be drie. Then put into everie Quince sugar, sinammon and ginger and fill everie pie therewith, and then you may let them bake the space of an houre, and so serve them." I guess the coffin is a given in this instance... Quinces Boiled in a Pot (Stewed Quinces in Red Wine) TOMC "Take a casserole or a covered frypan. And see that the lid has many small holes. It is preferable that the casserole or frying pan be new, so that ir doesn't lend a meaty flavour. And put the quinces in the pan, having cleaned them. And fill it with almonds and cooked [concentrated] wine so that the dish becomes smooth and thick. And with the quinces put sticks of connamon and cloves and nutmeg and mace and grains of paradise. And put this over live coals with a little heat around the pan, ans boil. And see that it is covered. And when cooked, slice them neatly and remove the core. And put them on a plate and sprinkle with sugar and cinnamon and cloves." Quinces (Quince puree with Almonds) TOMC "Take quinces, according to the quantity you want to make, and quarter them and remove the core. And then peel them, wash them in cold water. And put them to boil in cold water. And when they begin to break up, then they are cooked, and take them out of the pot. And grind them in a mortar. And blend them with a little of the cooking liquid and strain through a sieve. And then take seven pounds of almonds, wash them well in cold or lukewarm water and grind them in a mortar. And when they are well ground, blend with warm water and pass through a sieve. If it is a meat-eating day, use meat broth. And add this milk to the quinces.. Then put in a pot with all kinds of spices, namely ginger and cinnamon and saffron and grains of paradise and nutmeg and mace. And if it is a fish-eating day you cannot [ie can't use meat broth - spices are fine!]. When it turns very thick turn it into bowls and sprinkle with sugar and cinnamon." Pureed Quinces TFCC "Take Quinces, & pare him clene, cast hem on a potte, & caste ther-to water of Rosys; do it over a fyre, & hele it faste, & let it boyle a gode whyle tyl they ben neysshe; & if they wol not nen nysshe, bray hem in a Mortar smal, draw hem thorw a straynoure; take gode Mylk of Almyndys, & caste in a potte & boyle it; take whyte Wyne & Vynegre, an caste ther-to the Mylke, & let in stonde a whyle, take than a clene canvas, & caste to the creme, & do it over the fyre, & lat boyle; take a porcyon of Pouder of Clowys, of Gyngere, of Graynys of Perys, of Euery a porcuon; take Sugre y-now, and Salt, & a party of Saffroun, & alle menge to-gederys; & when thou dressyst forth, plante ot with foyle of Syluer." In the interests of health, I'd suggest gold leaf decoration rather than silver. Rowan Date: Sat, 06 Jun 1998 23:36:52 -0500 From: Philip & Susan Troy Subject: Re: Jams not period??? (was SC - Mulberry question) > Several years ago, I spent about 16 months living in Northern > Brazil, and found in the grocery stores a canned product called (in > English) guava paste. It was approximately what our High Priest > described, made of guava. It was not as sweet as some preserves I > have had, and had that grainy guava texture, but I enjoyed it. They > also had banana paste, that I liked even more. Much to my delight, I > have found the guava paste (not the banana, alas :-( ) in the area of > local grocery stores that cater to the hispanic population. The cans > are flat, and about 6"in diameter, about 2" thick. Now that I know > that this approximates medieval preserves, I can pack a can along on > camping trips with a clear conscience!! > > Tyrca There's a quince variety that is more or less perfectly period, for what may be the utmost in convenience-food decadence. It's called Queso de Membrillo in Spanish, but I don't know what it would be in Portuguese. AFAIK, guava paste, while certainly tasty and prepared according to a fairly medieval method, is from a New World fruit, isn't it? Quince paste is a little closer to period marmalades, and you can do neat stuff like melting it in a double boiler or other pan, and pouring it into a nice mold. I have a big wooden shortbread stamp with a thistle on it, and I wrap wax paper around the edges to add depth to it. I usually make my own quince paste, and cook it slightly thicker, drier, and a tad more leathery than the commercial stuff, so it's easier to remove from the mold when it's simply been oiled. For a softer paste, it would probably be a good idea to oil your mold and dust it with sugar before filling it with the hot paste. BTW, you will probably see in period recipes for this stuff, an instruction to put it up, or print it, in boxes. An Elizabethan marmalade box is made from tin or copper or some such, molded with a pattern in relief, usually with a hinged lid punched full of holes, to facilitate drying of the paste. Adamantius Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 12:04:35 EST From: LrdRas Subject: SC - Decline of Quinces alysk at ix.netcom.com writes: << I had run across a number of marmelades made with fruit _other_ than quinces, though those were in the late 1600s. So, somewhere along the way, the main ingredient changed. >> According to Waverly Root, the decline in the use of quinces as a food item occured at the same time cane sugar became more widely available. It seems that with the acquisition of a sweet tooth the sour quince went to the wayside. Ras Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 15:39:54 -0700 From: david friedman Subject: Re: SC - Quince At 4:00 PM -0400 5/3/98, Bonne wrote: >The local Wellspring Grocery had Quince Paste in the cheese department. Are >quinces an old or new world fruit? It was a slice of a somewhat jelly like, >clear preserve. What would you do with quince paste? Quince is an old world fruit, and shows up in period recipes. They include recipes for quince paste. So far as I know, quince paste is a final product--something you eat--not an ingredient. David/Cariadoc http://www.best.com/~ddfr/ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 09:02:09 +1000 (EST) From: Charles McCathieNevile Subject: Re: SC - Quince Quince paste is like fruit pate - you put it on bread, biccys or the end of your fingers. And it is one of the best things you can do with quinces - - it is usually seriously good food. Charles Ragnar Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 09:28:46 +1000 From: Robyn Probert Subject: Re: SC - Quince Bonne wrote: >The local Wellspring Grocery had Quince Paste in the cheese department. Are >quinces an old or new world fruit? It was a slice of a somewhat jelly like, >clear preserve. What would you do with quince paste? Eat it! It is wonderful as a sweetmeat and is excellent also with a hard cheese, which is how the spanish eat it. I have recipies if you are interested. Quines are old world and there are many recipies for them, especially in period Italian and middle eastern sources. Rowan Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 19:58:54 -0400 From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow) Subject: Re: SC - Quince >The local Wellspring Grocery had Quince Paste in the cheese department. Are >quinces an old or new world fruit? It was a slice of a somewhat jelly like, >clear preserve. What would you do with quince paste? > >Bonne There is a recipe for Quince Paste in Harleian MS. 4016 ,recipe #182, "Chared coneys, or chardwardon". The spiced paste is stored in a box strewn with powdered ginger & cinnamon. It is used in the recipe for Mawmene (Harl. MS. 4016, #99), where it is dissolved in wine and used to color & flavor a sauce for pheasant. It is also used in Perys en Composte (Harl. 279, #35). Cindy Renfrow renfrow at skylands.net Author & Publisher of "Take a Thousand Eggs or More, A Collection of 15th Century Recipes" and "A Sip Through Time, A Collection of Old Brewing Recipes" http://www.alcasoft.com/renfrow/ Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 01:45:43 GMT From: korny at zikzak.net (Kornelis Sietsma) Subject: Re: SC - Quince On Sun, 03 May 1998 16:00:49 -0400, Bonne wrote: >The local Wellspring Grocery had Quince Paste in the cheese department. Are >quinces an old or new world fruit? It was a slice of a somewhat jelly like, >clear preserve. What would you do with quince paste? Quinces are indeed an old world fruit. Fresh quinces are similar to pears, except much larger, and you cannot consume them raw (they are far too tart). Cooked, they are wonderful! As for the paste - I'm not certain what it is used for these days, but something very similar was used as a confection. I have a period recipe somewhere for a sweet that involves boiling down mushed quinces, wine, honey, and spices until you have a thick paste. Once it is thick enough, you cut it into squares, roll them in sugar, and eat them. The result is *very* tasty - if rather a lot of work. The fruit is only available in autumn here, and mainly at large markets. And the reason I'm currently very familiar with the fruit is because we ran an Autumn feast on Saturday - report to follow soon - which contained (among many other things) 26 quinces :) - -Korny - -- William Bekwith MKA Kornelis Sietsma | http://zikzak.net/~korny Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 16:59:00 +1000 From: Robyn Probert Subject: Re: SC - re:period recipes TOMC = The Original Mediterranean Cuisine TFCC = Two Fifteenth Century Cookery Books Quinces... Quince Paste TOMC Quince Pies (The Good Huswife's Handmaid, 1594) Stewed Quinces in Red Wine TOMC Quince puree with Almonds TOMC Pureed Quinces TFCC Claudia Roden's "A New Book of Middle Eastern Food" makes reference to quinces being used in Al Bahgdadi's recipies but does not give an example. Perhaps Cariadoc can supply details... Incidentally, this is an excellent book containing many wonderful period recipies all of which taste fabulous (but then I love this type of food). Rowan Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 02:09:10 -0500 From: allilyn at juno.com (LYN M PARKINSON) Subject: SC - Quince honey For the person who wanted a quince recipe: Manny’s Quince Honey 5 large quinces 10 C. (5 lbs) sugar 1 pint boiling water Pare and grate quinces; dissolve sugar and water over slow heat; add quinces and cook 15 to 20 min. until clear. When cold, this should be the consistency of honey. Manny was my maternal Grandmother This is not the same as the period confection, but as I remember, it was a good spread. Lady Allison Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 20:25:11 -0500 From: "Decker, Terry D." Subject: RE: SC - Re: A Paste of Pippins > To add a data point, the grocery stores around here carry a "marmelada" > from a Portuguese company. It's made of quinces, and thick enough to > slice thinly, almost as stiff as fruit leather. > > mar-Joshua ibn-Eleazar ha-Shalib > Stephen Bloch > sbloch at panther.adelphi.edu As a small aside, to quote Lorna Sass in To The Queen's Taste, "The word marmalade comes from the Portuguese marmelo, meaning quince and originally referring to a preserve of this fruit. It soon came to mean a confection made with any cooked fruit." Bear Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 14:58:00 -0600 From: Melissa Martines Subject: SC - Quince conserve Conserve of quinces from The English Housewife p. 119 "Take two gallons of fair water, and set it on the fire, and when it is lukewarm, beat the white of five or six eggs, and put them into the water, and stir it well, and then let the water seethe, and when it riseth up all on a curd, then scum it off. Take quinces and pare them, and quarter them, and cut the cores; then take as many pound of your quinces as your sugar, and put them into your liquor, and let it boil till your liquor be high coloured as French wine, and when they be very tender, then take a new canvas clothe fair washed, and strain your quinces through it, with some of your liquor, then if you will make it very pleasant, take a little musk, and lay it in rosewater, and put it thereto; the take and seeth it, until it be of such substance that, when it is cold, it will cut with a knife; and then put it into a fair box, and if you please, lay gold leaf thereon." Redaction: 2 gal water 6 egg whites 5 lbs. quinces 5 lbs sugar 2 tsp. rosewater Beat egg whites. Add to water. Boil. Simmer for 10-15 minutes, skimming off any scum that rises. Peel, core and quarter the quinces. Add quinces and sugar to the boiling water. When the water is deep burgundy and the quinces very tender (they must boil for several hours), drain the quinces reserving 2-3 cups of the water. Mash the quinces. Add the water back in and the rosewater. Simmer on low heat for about another * hour. Pour into jars to set. Morgan MacBride Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 08:19:18 -0500 From: "Decker, Terry D." Subject: RE: SC - Quince question > My fruits are *smaller* than pears, and have no fuzz, but they are > hard as a rock, and when I brought flower sprays into work (I have to prune > it or I can't get the lawnmower under it), my boss said "What a pretty > color! My quinces are more orange." Is anybody familiar with a variety > of quince like mine? Are they edible? I asked the person I bought the > house from, but they had no idea (nor about the other trees). > > Sandra Kisner, personaless > sjk3 at cornell.edu According to the quick ref, Genus Cyndonia and genus Chaenomeles in the Rose family are called quinces. Cyndonia oblonga is the edible quince and is thornless. The Chaenomeles are thorned and are ornamentals commonly referred to as flowering quinces. Bear Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 12:00:07 EDT From: LrdRas at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - Quince question sjk3 at cornell.edu writes: << So it sounds like mine aren't edible. >> Wrong. If you manage to get fruit, Japanese quinces are as edible as European ones. Chaenomeles speciosa or Quince Quince has an old-fashioned flare, associated with grandmothers' gardens and the heroines of British novels. It blooms earlier in the year than nearly any other shrub, bringing color to January borders. They are easy to force for early flowering indoors: just put cut branches in vases and watch the show. Smash the bottom inch or so of the branches first with a hammer to increase water intake. Quince makes a more subtle contribution to the summer border with its speckled fruit. About the size of Ping-Pong balls, they make fine preserves. Ras Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 23:26:38 -0400 From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" Subject: Re: SC - Quince question Here's another quince recipe to add to the collection. TORTA DE MEMBRILLOS -- Quince tart Source: _Libro del Arte de Cozina_ (Spanish, 1599) Translation: mine Set the quince to roast in the ashes of the coals, then remove the rind with wine, or water, and cut it in thin slices: have the tart casserole set aside, with your three crusts[1], and the large pancake[2] sprinkled all around with sugar, cinnamon, and cloves, and put the slices of quince with raisins, and morsels of lard, and all sprinkled with sugar and cinnamon, cover the tart with a thick crust, and some strips of crust, and cook it in the oven, and serve it hot with sugar and rosewater on top. You can add to the quinces fresh dates cut small, after having been cooked in wine and sugar, and soaked[3] pine nuts, and some slices of new cheese. [1] The Spanish word used is "hojaldres", which is in modern terms is puff pastry. The term derives from "hoja", meaning leaf. When I posted the recipe for carrot pie, a while back, I included a recipe from the same source for making hojaldre. The directions made it clear that the finished product will puff up into many "leaves". [2] the word is "tortillon". In Iberian Spanish, "torta" is a cake and "tortilla" means a pancake or an omlette; the -on suffix denotes something large or substantial. [3] The liquid is not specified, but there are many Spanish recipes of this period which call for soaking whole spices and other ingredients in rosewater overnight. I would interpret the "three crusts" as being a large bottom crust sprinkled with sugar and spices, and a thick top crust, sealed on the edges with strips cut from the third piece of crust. Brighid Lady Brighid ni Chiarain Settmour Swamp, East (NJ) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 21:59:33 -0600 From: "RANDALL DIAMOND" Subject: SC - Marmalade As I have not been privy to previous topics, being newly arrived, I would like to ask whether marmalades are of interest. Since the seasonal availabilty of affordable quinces is upon us all, I would entertain discussion of period marmalades. Personally, I have made several batches over the past few years of Condoignac and Chardequynce according to recipies circa 1394 and circa 1444. The problem of making this excellent food is mainly its expense. For no small reason was this a favoured gift to nobles; the honey and red wine was prohibatively costly. A real jewel of a book on this subject is THE BOOK OF MARMALADE, C. Anne Wilson, St. Martins, NY, 1985. The key step in making affordable Condoignac and chardequyences is finding cheap quinces. You need a lot of them and at $2.00 each in the specialty fruit section of Krogers, it hurts. Scope out stores which have a overstock of them (few mundanes have the sense to know that you can't eat an uncooked quince). Hence, the produce manager usually has the dilemma of a wrinkling, unsaleable fruit (which was largely unsalable in its perfection anyway). I have offered to buy out all of the unsalable stock (still perfectly usable) and usually get get 30 pounds or so at 10 cents on the dollar. This makes it possible at least for several cooks to pool their resouces to make this delish dish. It is a magnificant 12th Night gift to the local tin hats! You can't scimp on the honey and wine too much and have a tasty result. It also takes forever(!!) to reduce all that wine, pulp and honey down to the consistancy of a stiff but still soft peanut brittle. Akim Yaroslavich Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 07:41:35 -0500 From: Philip & Susan Troy Subject: Re: SC - Marmalade Stefan li Rous wrote: > While we have discussed marmalades here before, I don't > remember any mention of them being this early or using > honey instead of sugar so this is interesting. See Le Menagier de Paris, and I think also some of the 14th-century English sources, for early cotignac recipes using honey. The reason you probably don't think of marmalade being that early might be that the word marmalade doesn't seem to turn up in the usual French, English and Italian sources until late period. As far as I know, offhand, anyway. But there are several cotignac recipes, under phonetically similar but variously spelled names, in some of the more mainstream "medieval" sources. And there's a lovely picture of a wheel of cotignac, a specialty of the town of Orleans, complete with an embossed picture of the Maid of Orleans, in the Lang/American edition of the Larousse Gastronomique. > > I have offered to buy out all > > of the unsalable stock (still perfectly usable) and usually get > > get 30 pounds or so at 10 cents on the dollar. > > This is an interesting idea, but I don't think I've ever seen > quinces in my local grocery stores. Although since I'm not > really sure what they look like, I may be overlooking them. Sorta like mutant yellow pears, maybe a bit like giant rosehips. Longer than an apple, but shorter/wider than a pear, slightly bumpy, hard yellowish fruits clearly related to apples and pears, with a slight down on the skin, a little like peachfuzz, but less pronounced, and that tends to come off by the time the fruit gets to market. I remember making a large cotignac Godzilla for the coronation feast of Horic and Leah (Jeez, was that ten years ago already?); that was kinda fun. Adamantius Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 19:00:03 -0600 From: "RANDALL DIAMOND" Subject: SC - Quinces Peldyn wrote: Subject: Re: SC - Quinces At 6:58 PM -0500 12/9/99, alysk at ix.netcom.com wrote: >Greetings! With all this chat of quinces, and the warning that they are >hard to peel, how _does_ one tell if a quince is ripe? It smells even more like an apple than usual--and much more like an apple than an apple does. David Friedman Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 23:53:48 EDT From: CBlackwill at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - Re: SC: Quince fruit ringofkings at mindspring.com writes: > Whoa! Yeah, tomatoes and eggplants are in the nightshade > family tree, but quinces certainly are NOT! Entirely different > botanical branch. They are trees, not herbaceous vegetables. > They are closely related to apples and pears and are of an origin > in Asia minor. They are also the main ingredient in a delicious period(?) sweetmeat called cotignac. I plan on making some using canned quince paste (as soon as I can find it), but I am not sure how this will compare to the fresh stuff. So long as there has not been too much processing or preservatives added, I think it should work okay. Balthazar of Blackmoor Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 00:40:00 EDT From: CBlackwill at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - Quince Pastes piglet006 at globalfreeway.com.au writes: > Unfortunately, there is no redaction and (other > people's objections aside *grin*) I am not happy reacting my own recipes > yet. Does anyone out there have a redaction? I have a recipe for cotignac from the Larousse Gastronomique. I am not sure where the source material came from, but I have used the recipe in the past, and it works very well as written. Cotignac Wash and peel some quinces; remove the seeds and tie them in a small piece of muslin. Cut the quinces into quarters and place them in a pan with 4 oz water per 2 1/4 lbs of fruit, together with the seeds in muslin. Cook over a low heat until the quinces are soft and squeeze the bag of seeds to obtain the maximum flavor. Remove the seed and reduce the pulp to a puree (I use a food processor). Weigh the puree and pour it into a pan with 1 3/4 cups sugar to each 2 cups puree. Reduce the puree, stirring constantly, until a small ball of it will hold its shape. Spread the paste evenly on an oiled baking tray and leave to dry out, preferably in a very cool oven (I let it dry out on the counter, very loosely covered in cheesecloth). Cut the paste into squares and coat with sugar. Pack into boxes, seperating the layers with sheet of waxed paper or parchment, and store in a dry place. Rather than spreading the paste out onto a cookie sheet, I pack it into little wooden or plastic boxes which I have very lightly oiled and sugared. This makes a nicer presentation, I think. Balthazar of Blackmoor (who just got an answer to the question "is cotignac period?") Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 16:41:20 EDT From: allilyn at juno.com Subject: Re: SC - Quince Pastes (long answer) Gwynydd, I looked up La Varenne, and it isn't the same wording, but the methods are pretty much the same, so you have a recipe that was used at least in late period in several places. This is a good one for you to begin to 'play' with. "To make quince pastes. Take quinces and peel them. Then cut them in quarters and remove the eyes and the seeds. 1. clean your quinces, and get them ready to cook. Then cook them in good red wine and then run them through a strainer. 2. put the quince pieces in a non-reactive pot (glass, stainless steel, etc. I bet you can do this in your microwave) Just cover with red wine. DON'T get the cheapest you can find--you won't like the results. When money is a problem, get the cheapest you can drink. I learned this the hard way. Bring to a boil, then lower heat and cook until very tender. Check a mundane cook book for cooking directions for a similar fruit, try that, and check often. Stir with a wooden spoon (non-reactive). Mash your quinces. How much wine you leave in is up to you--but you don't want these to be dry: you have to get them through a strainer. Use a food processor if you have one. Then strain. I forget how fibrous a quince is, it may be the reason you want to strain. You are looking for something like absolutely smooth applesauce, by now. Then take honey and boil it a long time and skim off the scum, and afterwards put your quinces in it and stir it very well, and boil it until the honey reduces by half. 3. If you buy honey in the store, you may not have to go through the boil and skim process, but if you have bees or are getting it from a local farmer, you want the bee-bits and excess starch out of it. Again, bring to a boil--very carefully--because sugar boils up and over fast and makes a really nasty burn! Lower heat to a low boil or less, stir constantly until you have half the volume in the pot that you started with. Then add hypocras powder stir it again until it cools. 4. Redon et al give the following for hypocras powder: 1 rounded teaspoon ground cinnamon, 1 rounded teaspoon ground ginger, 1 small piece dred galangal. Grind if necessary. Then cut it into pieces and store it." >> This is probably going to be sticky--of course, you could leave it on the counter until you had nothing but sticky brick bits, but I don't think this is what you are going for. ;-) It may dry into a smooth fruit leather that won't be hard to store or handle. In modern times, such confections are un-stickied with powdered sugar before storing in glass jars. You decide how period you want to be. Now, I can't give you absolute quantities, because I don't know how much cut up quince you will have, or the size and shape of your pot. Similar reasons for not giving such things in period sources. If you can raise ducks, you can stir the quinces in honey. We have faith in you! Cook away, and let us know how it turns out. Regards, Allison, allilyn at juno.com Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 17:29:19 -0800 From: Kerri Canepa Subject: Re: SC - Quince Pastes (long answer) Referring to the preparation of quinces: >1. clean your quinces, and get them ready to cook. > >Then cook them in good red wine and then run them through a strainer. >2. put the quince pieces in a non-reactive pot (glass, stainless steel, >etc. I bet you can do this in your microwave) Just cover with red wine. > DON'T get the cheapest you can find--you won't like the results. When >money is a problem, get the cheapest you can drink. I learned this the >hard way. Bring to a boil, then lower heat and cook until very tender. >Check a mundane cook book for cooking directions for a similar fruit, try >that, and check often. Stir with a wooden spoon (non-reactive). Mash >your quinces. How much wine you leave in is up to you--but you don't >want these to be dry: you have to get them through a strainer. Use a >food processor if you have one. Then strain. I forget how fibrous a >quince is, it may be the reason you want to strain. You are looking for >something like absolutely smooth applesauce, by now. Having made Menagier's quince jellies last winter, I can't emphasize the importance of cooking the quinces for a long time. You want them mushy or you will have a heck of a time trying to push or rub them through a strainer. Also, you'll need to get your knives sharpened after you peel, slice and seed them. Quinces when not extremely ripe are very hard. Even when they're ripe it can be difficult to process them. Nothing beats the fragrance of ripe quince though. Mmmmmmm.... Cedrin Princess Oertha Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 10:06:36 -0500 From: "Michael F. Gunter" Subject: SC - Bounced message from Akim Balthazar of Blackmoor comments: >>>>They are also the main ingredient in a delicious period(?) sweetmeat called cotignac. I plan on making some using canned quince paste (as soon as I can find it), but I am not sure how this will compare to the fresh stuff. So long as there has not been too much processing or preservatives added, I think it should work okay.<<<< That's "condoignac" and the recipe is in Le Menagier. The recipe was posted in Cooks #2205 in the original post of this thread. I make it quite regularly during the holidays in 10 pound batches. I also make chardequynce (circa 1444) in three different versions in 20 pound batches. It is more like a thick jam, while condoignac is like a dark licorice-coloured gummy square. The taste is very powerfully flavoured. Some folks like it, others won't touch it. The chardequynce is pretty much universally popular by those who try it. I use it (in a period fashion) in feasts as a last course item to soothe" the stomach, though I can't seem to keep the feasters from using it as a sauce on pork and chicken dishes as well. I think it may in period been our equivalent of cranberry sauce at Thanksgiving. I will probably bring a gallon or so of it to Pennsic to reduce the gracious plenty of it I have at the moment. I doubt that quince paste will give you equivalent results to the original as the cut fruit is boiled in the red wine for hours and is transformed in flavour by it as it boils down in volume to about 10% of its orginal liquid volume. Then you render this fruit, which retains its original shape completely incidentally, into mush ( I use a blender as hot fruit through a sieve is for the birds). Then this thick paste is boiled for even more hours with the honey. I don't think paste will do well at all. I wrote a huge post on these recipes which Stefan put his collection last fall. One final note, Condoignac was a kingly gift in period as it was made from expensive honey, wine and spices. It is very expensive to make now as the wine and fruit are premium items and the price of honey is rising fast. Akim Yaroslavich Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 22:30:29 -0500 From: "RANDALL DIAMOND" Subject: SC - RE: More Quince Stuff Clare writes: >>>>Alright I'm intrigued by all this quince talk. There is a quice plant at my friend's house and I would like to pick some. How do you know when they are ripe? Do they get soft? Smell sweet? Any particular color? Any suggestions from experience would be helpful ...<<<< "A quince plant???" They are going to be on a large (8 foot +) bush or a small tree (8-20 feet). They are as ripe as they are going to get when they get to the size of a medium -to-largish pear and take on a greenish yellow colour. They will yellow as they age and begin to wither, but they only get soft when they begin to rot. They have a very wonderful smell, very fresh that smells like..... well, like quinces. They won't be ready to pick until late summer or more likely, early fall in your area. I know that the apples in your area don't generally get picked until Labor Day, so they will likely be late maturing too. Are you sure your neighbor's "quince plant" isn't an ornamental hawthorn bush? That's what some folks in Tennessee know as quinces, even making jelly from them. Similar but no cigar. Akim Yaroslavich Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 14:59:15 -0500 From: david friedman Subject: Re: SC - re:quince fruit At 1:10 PM -0700 4/29/00, Laura C. Minnick wrote: > I also seem to remember a >period recipe for a tart that calls for quinces, but I can't remember >where. Two Fifteenth c Cookery Books? Yes. And there is a similar recipe in Du Fait de Cuisine. And it's in the _Miscellany_. David Friedman http://www.best.com/~ddfr/ Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 16:14:35 GMT From: "Bonne of Traquair" Subject: Re: SC - Bounced message from Akim > > Balthazar of Blackmoor comments: > > >>>>They are also the main ingredient in a delicious period(?) > > sweetmeat > > called cotignac. I plan on making some using canned quince paste (as > > soon as I can find it), > >If you are in the part of the country where they have Harris Teeter stores >check there for the quince paste. I found some late last week in flat round >tins. Our Wholefoods subsidiary, Wellspring, carries quince paste in the cheese cooler so any other Whole Foods Grocery ought to be able to get it. Balthazar, I beleive Wild Oats is the name of the sub. out in California. Wholefoods.com might be helpful in locating a store nearest Bakersfield. Bonne Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 14:47:08 EDT From: allilyn at juno.com Subject: Re: SC - an interesting challenge...and its even about medieval food! Chiquart's quinces--vegan 70. Again, quinces in pastry: and to give understanding to him who should prepare them let him arrange that he has his fair and good quinces and then let him clean them well and properly and then make a narrow hole on top and remove the seeds and what they are wrapped in, and let him take care that he does not break through on the bottom or anywhere else; and, this being done, put them to boil in a fair and clean cauldron or pot in fair water and, being thus cooked, take them out onto fair and clean boards to drain and put them upside down without cutting them up. And then let him go to the pastry-cooks and order from them the little crusts of the said pastries to put into each of the said little crusts three quinces or four or more. And when the said little crusts are made fill the holes in the said quinces with very good sugar, then arrange them in the said little crusts and cover and put to cook in the oven; and, being cooked enough, let them be served. Core and seed quinces without breaking through far end. Simmer until almost tender, drain upside down. Stuff openings with brown sugar, wrap in filo, brush with melted butter, bake til golden brown. APdeT 2/99 Allison, allilyn at juno.com Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 11:13:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Dana Huffman Subject: Re: SC - RE: Web translators I don't think I've done this one yet, so here's a human-done translation for the convenience of those who want to compare: Recipe for quince turnovers Put the peeled and quartered quinces in a frying pan, cover them with water and honey. And [with the] frying pan put on the fire, turn the quinces many times. And when they are white, remove them and make the turnovers. And [with the] slices of quince put in the turnover, put sugar and cinnamon on top; and of the honey in which they were cooked, a little. And [with the] turnover covered, cook [it] in the oven. Make on top of the turnover a hole and, when it is half cooked (or: in the middle of cooking), put in another little bit of honey; and they will finish cooking. And to see if they are cooked or not do thus: put a stick through the hole, and if the honey forms threads they are cooked and if not, [they are] not. > Here's the original FYI > Receta para empanadas de membrillos > Los membrillos mondados y hechos cuartos ponerlos en una sartÈn, > cubrirlos de agua y miel. Y puesta la sartÈn al fuego, volver los membrillos > muchas vezes. Y desque estÈn blancos, quitadlos y hacer las empanadas. Y > puestas las tajadas de los membrillos en la empanada, poner por encima > az?car y canela; y de la miel en que han cocido, una poca. Y tapada la > empanada, cueza en el horno. HarÈis encima de la empanada un agujero y, a > medio cozer, le echarÈis otro poco de miel; y acabar·n de cozer. Y para ver > si son cocidas o no harÈis asÌ: meter por el agujero un palo, y si la miel > hace hilo est·n cocidas y si no, no. Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 13:31:11 -0400 From: Philip & Susan Troy Subject: SC - Notes re Quinces in Paste In an attempt to help drown out some of the more objectionable material on this list lately, I will inflict on you my documentation for Quinces in Paste, which sat on the EKU A&S display table a couple of feet from the Peach Pits and the Four Condiments from Platina... > Quyncis or Wardouns in past > > ì.xxj. Quyncis or Wardouns in past. -- Take & make fayre Rounde cofyns of fayre past; (th)an take fayre Raw Quynces, & pare hem with a knyf, & take fayre out (th)e core (th)er-of ; (th)an take Sugre y-now, & a lytel pouder gynger, & stoppe (th)e hole fulle ; & cowche .ii. or .iij. wardonys or quynce3 in a cofyn, & keuer hem, & lat hem bake ; & for defaut of Sugre, take hony ; but (th)en putte pouder Pepir (th)er-on, & Gyngere, in (th)e maner be-for sayd.î > -- Harleian Ms 279, ~1420 C.E. ìTwo Fifteenth-Century Cookery-Booksî > ed. Thomas Austin, pub. Early English Text Society, printed by > The Oxford University Press, 1888, reprinted 1964 and 1996 > > XXI. Quinces or wardens in paste. -- Take and make nice round piecrusts of good pastry, then take good raw quinces, and peel them with a knife, and neatly take out their cores. Then take enough sugar, and a little powdered ginger, and stuff the core holes full; and lay two or three wardens or quinces in each piecrust, & cover them, and let them bake; and if you have no sugar, take honey; but then put powdered pepper on them, and ginger, in the same manner as above. > > This is a pretty straightforward recipe; the method not too far from an apple pie made with an uncooked filling. Quinces require longer cooking and, usually, more sugar or other sweetening to be palatable. I used honey because I had a lot in the house, and because I thought it would make for a more complex flavor. > The filling consists of four quinces, three cored, peeled and whole, plus one cut into smaller pieces to fill up any large, empty spaces in the pastry. These were flavored with approximately 10-12 ounces of honey, 1/4 tsp. freshly ground pepper and 1/2 tsp. ground ginger. > The pastry poses some research problems... the oldest piecrust recipe Iím aware of in English is as follows, from the sixteenth century: > > ìTo make short paest for tarte. Take fyne floure and a curscy of fayre water and a dish of swete butter and a lyttel saffron, and the yolckes of two egges and make it thynne and as tender as ye maye.î > -- ìA Proper Newe Booke of Cokeryeî, mid-sixteenth century C.E., ed. Catherine Frances Frere, Cambridge: W. Heffer and Sons, Ltd., 1913 > > The trouble is that this is intended for tarts, usually open pastries no more than an inch or two deep; our quince pastry is more of a pie, covered, deep enough to hold whole quinces, possibly for some period of time. If what is described above is for a rich, delicate, tart pastry, we probably need something a bit more substantial. The basic recipe can be followed with somewhat fewer egg yolks and butter in proportion to the other ingredients; since these are shortenings, that should make the dough a bit tougher. To keep it from being too tough, Iíve added some sugar, which is consistent for many piecrust recipes both within and early post-period. There appear to be some German tart doughs made from flour, saffron and yolks alone (see Ein Buoch Von Guter Spise, etc.) > The final proportions of the pie dough are approximately two pounds of stone-ground whole wheat flour (while it has less gluten than white flour, pies in late period appear often to have been made with whole wheat or rye flour, as the coarseness seems to have been equated with strength and keeping ability. See Gervase Markhamís ìThe English Hus-Wifeî, etc.) four ounces of unsalted butter, 1/2 tsp. salt, 1/2 cup grated ìpanela dolceî brown sugar, approximately 1/4 tsp saffron, four egg yolks, and approximately a pint of very cold water, kneaded by hand to a smooth, moderately tough, sculptable dough, which was raised by hand, like clay on a potterís wheel, into the round ìcoffinî for the pie. After filling, the lid was sealed on with water and crimped into place. > The pie was baked for a total of approximately two hours; for half an hour at 3508 F., half an hour at 3258 F., and an hour at 3008 F. > Decoration is with a gilding wash made from an egg yolk, 1/2 tsp sugar, a tiny pinch of salt, and 1/4 tsp saffron, over which is placed edible silver leaf, held in place with a solution of gum tragacanth dissolved in water. As of this writing I have no idea what form the design will take. **Post-event commentary: I had fun with applying edible silver leaf to the surface in two counterchanged quarters, which I did on-site. Contrary to what you may have heard, silver and gold vark sheets are not Zip-A-Tone, and do not adhere to the sheets of paper used to keep them separate. They will stick to themselves, or any other surface, with no visible provocation _provided_ that that is _not_ where you want them to go. Once applied where you actually want them, they will resist most initial attempts to fix them in that location. In all seriousness, what I found most effective was a thinly brushed coating of dilute solution of gum tragacanth on the pastry (already gilded with saffron-egg wash). For stubborn areas, a small dot of additional gum solution could be applied to the edge of a sheet (without actually touching the brush to the foil), where it would be sucked under the sheet by capillary action. Advice: you cannot have too many fine, soft brushes for this job. I think perhaps my technique will improve with further experience, and I was happy to provide the people of my Kingdom with living proof of the consequences of the Sin of Pride. (And all they kept saying was, "Come on, I thought Laurels can do anything!") To offset my embarrassment, I learned a great deal in the process, had a good time playing with food and a more-or-less exotic ingredient that is a lot cheaper than most people seem to think, and you can't _ask_ for a better conversational ice-breaker than to sit and concentrate on such a job and be asked "What in Heaven's name are you doing to that poor pie???", in one case from His Majesty, with whom I had to speak anyway, so it worked out okay. Next time, gold... ; ) Adamantius Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 01:14:41 -0400 From: Philip & Susan Troy Subject: SC - More Quince Stuff... I've been looking for other quince pie recipes, and have discovered this interesting one in the Scully translated edition of Ms. Buhler 19, "The Neapolitan Recipe Collection". "77. Quince Pie. Prepare the dough as I have said for other tarts*; then get peeled quince and remove the hard part in their centre, and do not let the hole you make to remove it go all the way through; into this hole put good beef marrow with plenty of sugar and cinnamon; and lay the quince in the pies, adding the marrow to them inside and out; mind that it is not too salty; put another crust on top, cooking it as with the other tarts." *Note: there is another tart recipe which speaks of making a pastry crust using a half pound of butter, but since no other ingredients, let alone their quantities, are specified, this is of limited usefulness. Recipe # 185, for French-Style Apple Tart, calls for a pastry crust to be made from sugar, flour, oil, water and salt. Here's another, from Ms. Harl. 5401, believed to be 15th Century, North English Dialect... "83 Quynces in Composte. Recipe fayre quynces & payr hem clene, & cut (th)am oute (th)e kyrnyls; (th)an tak sugur enogh & a lityll powdyre of gynger. Stop (th)e hole full; & (th)an make rownde cophyns & close .iij. or .iiij. in a cophyn, & let it bake; & els take clarifyed hony in stede of sugur; & serof." The above recipe is pretty much identical to the English recipe I used, and the two versions as represented by Harl. Mss. 279 and 4016, roughly thirty years apart, are effectively identical; the Neapolitan recipe is pretty much the same as Chiquart's, as far as I can tell. There appear to be two basic methods, one of which involves cooked quinces, moistened and enriched with marrow, the other involving raw quinces, to be enriched only by their natural pectin and the other flavorings. Adamantius Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 07:30:41 -0400 From: Philip & Susan Troy Subject: Re: SC - Notes re Quinces in Paste david friedman wrote: > >It sounds as though you are aiming at > >something that will look more like people expect, and less like what > >comes out from the original--which is, in my experience, pretty > >lumpy but good. and then Betty Cook wrote: > None of the three recipes has the modification Adamantius made of > chopping up a quince. That is true, which is why I specifically mentioned having cut the extra quince into thirds, 120 degree sectors, and my reasons for doing so. Which, if one wants to quibble, isn't what most people think of when using the word "chopping", and each of the thirds probably would constitute a single serving anyway, so even on the plate there is no character of having in front of you a serving of chopped quinces, rather, a third of a whole, large quince. I really don't feel this is much of an issue in the effectiveness of the recreation; it was merely a discretionary choice based on the presence of a lot of empty space in the pastry, and an extra quince, not enough to cook on its own, and with me not in the mood for Byzantine murri or anything else calling for quinces as an ingredient. As already stated, my reasons for doing this had nothing to do with meeting any preconceived modern notions of how a fruit pie should look, and I suspect anybody who actually saw the pastry would agree. Service (such as it was) was also an indicator; a quarter of the lid (not the sides) was removed, more or less surgically excised, with the first thing you saw was a whole quince. For all that, what people actually ate first was the thirds. Adamantius Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 08:17:24 -0800 From: Susan Fox-Davis Subject: Re: SC - Quince tarts I did a lot of work with quinces last Twelfth Night for quince jelly candies, and they can destroy an apple-peeler faster than you can say boo. The gadget I was using was the one where you prong the apple on a triangular fork-ish thing and cranked it through a peeler, cutter and corer. Problem is, the fork is cast as one piece and the tines broke off. One of my favorite handy guys, Cellach MacGhallobhair managed to drill out the tine stubs and replace them with equally-sized nails, which held up like a champ for the rest of the proceedings. Selene Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 09:21:11 -0800 From: "E. Rain" Subject: SC - subbing for quinces WAS: stewed turkey with fruit Good morning from Eden, Bridghid writes re a recipe that calls for quinces: > If quinces are no longer available, perhaps a tart apple > like a Granny Smith will do? not on it's own I don't think. Quinces are among my favorite fruits for their wonderful complexity of taste. I usually liken them more to a firm/unripe pear than an apple, but really they're kind of like a cross between the two, but on top of the fruit part they have this incredible spicyness that you'd have to compensate for as well. I'd use a combo of the two fruits and add in some ginger and maybe galingale. sadly someone (bird?Squirrel?) vandalized the 2 fruits on our quince bush before I could harvest them so I didn't get any home-grown quince sorbet this year :-< Eden - hoping to find quinces in the market this weekend. Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 20:01:40 -0800 From: "Bonne of Traquair" Subject: Re: SC - Recipe: stewed turkey with fruit >If quinces are no longer available, perhaps a tart apple >like a Granny Smith will do? > >Brighid Having just experienced Quinces, I would say no. The taste is more of an intense pear taste rather than an apple-y taste. Hunt up the ripest pears you can if quince isn't available. Bonne Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 07:48:08 +0000 From: tamsinlewis Subject: Re: SC - Quince Paste "Craig Jones." wrote: > I'm at work at the moment (and away from my beloved cookbooks). Does anyone > have a period recipe for Contingnac (Quince Jellies)? > > Drake. Here's a recipe from 'A Closet for Ladies' 1636 To make printed Quodiniacks of Quinces, a ruby colour Take ij pound of Quinces pared and cut in small peeces and put them into a Posnet with iij pints of faire water, and so let them boyle till they be tender: then put into them a pound of sugar, and let it boyle till the fruit fall to the bottome of the pan: let the liquor run thorow a strainer into a Bason, and put it into a faire Posnet, and let it boyle till it come to his colour and thicknesse: then print it with your moulds: You shall know when it is ready to print, by rolling a little upon the back of a Spoone: and if you see it wil stand, and not run downe, print it. In like sort you may make your Quodiniack of Pippins; your pippins will hold all the yeere. From: "Diamond Randall" To: "sca-cooks" Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 8:55:10 -0800 Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Shopping as Economic Warfare > From: Stefan li Rous > >Another good one that I like is how Baron Akim got his quinces to make > >quince paste two years ago. Quinces are usually rather expensive in > >the grocery. They also happen to need to be overly ripe before you > >can use them. (See the fruit-quinces-msg file in the Florilegium). Anyway, > >Akim managed to time it to show up at his grocery when the quinces > >were beginning to look old and "gooey". And offered the grocery a > >fraction of their original asking price for these ugly, doubtlessly > >about to go to waste, fruits. And thus he came to Pennsic with a > >large container of quince paste which some of us there got to taste. Anahita replied: > Well, this is the first time I've ever heard of using over-ripe > quinces. A ripe quince is really really hard but incredibly > wonderfully fragrant. I've never seen a gooey quince and one like > that would be rather "gone". For jams and pates one generally doesn't > use the spoiled ones, but I am not dissing Baron Akim, since quinces > are quite expensive, and i think he did fine, talking the grocer down > to a good price. > > I bought a whole case of them in November While I did get a really good deal, the quinces weren't exactly "gone". The shelf life of a hard fruit like quince is pretty long compared with say peaches and apples (but not eternal like fruitcakes). I have never seen an "overripe" quince either. They are either firm and rather hard or go to areas of mushy brown rot like a pear. What I bought was actually good quality fruit which I would describe as "shopworn" with blemishes on the skins (but not gooey bruises or rot). There were a few which had shown signs of dehydration with slight withering at the base of the stem.. This is no different from the long stored "winter apples" you get by Spring which are no longer crisp but still fine for baking and making applesauce. I was able to make the produce grocer realize that while still good and wonderfully fragrant, the increasingly "tired" look of the fruit was not going to remain marketable at the asking price. For $2.00 each, patrons expect perfection. Also the holiday season was about past when the few people who buy them for their traditional fare. Offering to buy out the whole display for $.10 each was not completely successful, but he sold me all but the absolutely perfect ones (selling me about 90 % of the quinces) at $.20 each. This was about 2 bushels. Most of the surface blemishes came off in peeling with firm flesh underneath and judicious paring saved at least half of more damaged fruits. If you have ever had to prepare a lot of quinces, you know there is going to be a lot of waste anyway as they are not easy to peel. and dice. The kitchen smelled wonderful with the heavy quince fragrance. My bargain was catching the quinces just past their optimum period of easy marketability. Akim Yaroslavich To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 05:30:17 -0700 From: "Tonya R Stinson" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] quince apple Cindy M. Renfrow wrote: > Hi. Are quinces and quince-apples the same thing? Quince carries the latin name Cydonia Rosaceae. quince-apple is Cydonia Vulgaris. Therefore must be two different fruits. Yet everything I've been able to find as a description of the fruit describes them both exactly the same. A very hard fuzzy light green to pale yellow fruit. Sounds like you came up with a really good question here. AHHHH!!!! FOUND IT!!!! They ARE the same!!! :) Quince: Cydonia oblonga Introduction The quince is now the only member of the genus Cydonia, the three shrubby quinces previously included are now classified in Chaenomeles. Quince has previously been classified as Pyrus cydonia and Cydonia vulgaris. This information was found at the website http://www.agroforestry.co.uk/ansample.html Elizabeth Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 08:21:21 -0600 To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org From: James Prescott Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] quince apple At 07:40 -0400 2003-05-15, Cindy M. Renfrow wrote: > Hi. Are quinces and quince-apples the same thing? In the Dutch of 1593, yes. This brings up a supplementary question. In the Dutch of 1593, are quince-apples and quince-pears the same thing? Thorvald To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 07:44:46 -0700 From: "Tonya R Stinson" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] quince apple James Prescott wrote: > This brings up a supplementary question. In the Dutch of 1593, are > quince-apples and quince-pears the same thing? > > Thorvald I don't think so... Quince apple: The quince apple was originally discovered in Crete. It is well known both as a jam and a fruit distillate. It having very hard and dry pulp, the amount obtained from distillation is rather little, but quite intensive concerning its aroma. Quince pear: Quince pear is chiefly grown in Portugal and the former Yugoslavia. It has got higher sugar content than that of the quince apple letting it be more suitable for distillation. It has also got a more intensive flavour than the quince apple. Elizabeth From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 11:07:10 -0400 Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] quince with meat/veg On 26 May 2003, at 16:46, Tonkin, Rebecca (PIRSA-SARDI) wrote: > Does anyone know of any recipes or references to using quinces in period > with meat or vegetables ? I have many sweet recipes, quinces in pastry, > cotignac, etc, but I have also come across a few mentions (unreferenced!) of > quinces served with roasted meats. I am unsure whether this is as a sauce, or > if they are used as stuffing, or what. I have found the Andalusian > recipes for meat stew with quinces, I wondered if there was more. Quinces continued to be used in Spanish cuisine. I don't know if you have yet looked at any other Spanish sources. My translation of the 1529 edition of the "Libro de Guisados" is online at: http://www.florilegium.org/files/FOOD-MANUSCRIPTS/Guisados1-art.text Take a look at the following recipes: 20. POTTAGE OF MARINATED MUTTON WHICH IS CALLED JANETE OF MUTTON 21. POTTAGE OF MARINATED HEN WHICH IS CALLED JANETE OF HENS (I served this one at a feast, and it was popular, even though I made the sauce too thin.) 160. MARINATED MUTTON (I've made this for myself. A nice sweet-sour flavor.) 165. POTTAGE CALLED PEACH DISH (This one can also be made with quinces. I suspect that the inclusion of drippings from the roast on the spit means that it was intended as a sauce for roasted meats.) Brighid ni Chiarain *** mka Robin Carroll-Mann Barony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom From: "Nancy Kiel" To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] quince with meat/veg Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 18:37:46 -0400 Original Mediterreanean Cuisine has a receipt for lamb with quinces; Medieval Arabic Cookery has several meat/quince receipts. Nancy Kiel Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 20:30:22 -0400 From: johnna holloway To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] quince with meat/veg Nancy Kiel wrote: >>Original Mediterreanean Cuisine has a receipt for lamb with quinces; Medieval Arabic Cookery has several meat/quince receipts.<< I didn't have time last week to explore this but did come across this on the web-- The persistent tart flavor of quinces counteracts the greasiness in meat and Fowl dishes in rich cuisines, notably in Germany, Latin America and the Middle East. In Persian cooking, with its tradition of meats and sour fruits cooked together, there are many recipes for meat and quince stews. In Britain, quince sauce is a traditional accompaniment to partridge, and the French roast quail with slices of the fruit. The Splendid Table http://table.mpr.org/souptonuts/farmstand_quince.html I have always thought that one should research them by looking also to pear recipes as it seems to me that there are recipes that say one might use quince as a choice if they were available. In terms of German-- 15 Take a goose, stuff it with onions, peeled quinces, pears and bacon, stick it on a spit and roast it. 68 To make a quince pie Peel the quinces and cut the core cleanly out with a knife, fry them in fat. After that stuff the quinces with currants, sugar, cinnamon and cloves. Afterwards take beef marrow or finely chopped kidney suet or skimmed fat from some other meat and put good Malavosia or Reinfal on it, sugar, cinnamon and cloves, however it seems good to you. The dough for the pie is found in number [sixty one]. from Sabina Welserin, found at: http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Medieval/Cookbooks/Sabrina_Welserin.html Is this what you had in mind? Johnnae llyn Lewis Johnna Holloway Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 14:38:48 -0400 Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Quinces From: Daniel Myers To: Cooks within the SCA On Wednesday, August 20, 2003, at 02:17 PM, Melanie Unruh-Bays wrote: >>> Imagine my surprise then when I find quinces at the supermarket last night! Yes, they are still somewhat hard, but if I purchase them this weekend (they're $1.99 each, so I need to wait until payday) will they ripen in the space of two weeks? What if I put them in a paper bag with some bananas? Any other suggestions? Having actually found them, I really hate to not be able to use them. <<< I generally recommend power tools for paring quince. When ripe, they have about the same firmness as a billiard ball. In other words, the ones you've found at the market probably are ripe. They will soften up just fine with cooking. If you do substitute apples or pears though, be aware that quince have a lot more pectin and make firmer jelly and such, so you may have to reduce the other fruits further to get the same results. Where are you that you are so lucky to have quince in the market? I'm jealous. - Doc (who's cooked with quince a couple of times and *loves* them - quince paste is awfully good too!) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edouard Halidai (Daniel Myers) http://www.medievalcookery.com/ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 12:13:56 -0700 From: lilinah at earthlink.net Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Quinces To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Eirene, the quinces should be hard. They are a fruit that is only eaten after having been cooked. If they are ripe, they should have yellow skin and have an wonderful fragrance. I have made period quince-lemon syrup from scratch for a feast - Limon-safarjali - and i have used quinces in a dish from the Anonymous Andalusian cookbook - Recipe for a Dish of Chicken or Partridge with Quince or Apple - i used chicken and quinces. I made it with apples once, but they lack the necessary "character"- the dish was good, but with quinces it's much better. I have also made a very different chicken and quince dish from Guter Spiese. I bought a case of them to make the syrup for a feast in late November, then used the remaining quinces for a feast in early December. I kept them in their box in a cool place - an enclosed sleeping porch - a turn of the century (19 to 20) California phenomenon - for the intervening 2 or 3 weeks and only one or two were less than perfect. Anahita Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 19:21:30 +0000 From: "Olwen the Odd" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Quinces To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org On Wednesday, August 20, 2003, at 02:17 PM, Melanie Unruh-Bays wrote: >>> Imagine my surprise then when I find quinces at the supermarket last night! Yes, they are still somewhat hard, but if I purchase them this weekend (they're $1.99 each, so I need to wait until payday) will they ripen in the space of two weeks? What if I put them in a paper bag with some bananas? Any other suggestions? Having actually found them, I really hate to not be Able to use them. <<< I was thinking it would be easier and cheaper to just go to a latin market and buy the paste by the block or the jar. I've used the block. Cut it into 1/4 inch slabs, put a slit in the center of the little rectangle and twisted one end through to make a kind of knot then rolled in sugar to coat and spread out to dry as much as possible (they never really get hard) and put out on the dessert board. Very easy. Very well recieved. Olwen Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 19:55:42 -0700 From: david friedman Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] When to Pick Quince? To: Cooks within the SCA > I live about 20 miles from a grove of quince trees. A small private museum > planted them years ago to see if they would grow in the area. I know the people > who run it and they do nothing with the fruit. I want to go and pick it when > it is ripe, but when is that??? I am in the Mojave Desert, if that affects > ripening time. My pomegranates are never ripe until the end of Oct, beginning > of Nov. > Visions of quince jelly and quince tarts dance through my head! > Peldyn Our quinces (SF bay area) are getting close to ripe now. Look for yellow rather than green color and a smell that I like to describe as "smelling more like apples than apples do." I assume, by the way, that these are the European quince, not Japonica (Japanese Quince), which is grown as an ornamental. -- David/Cariadoc http://www.daviddfriedman.com/ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 15:01:13 -0500 From: "a5foil" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Quince Paste? To: "Cooks within the SCA" > Anybody know where in the Mid-Atlantic area of the US I can get Quince > paste, and how much I will expect to pay? Thanks! > > -- Pani Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne at fiedlerfamily.net You can also order it from www.Tienda.com -- Spanish foods webstore based in Williamsburg VA. What they carry is expensive, but it is excellent, and they are good people to deal with. Search for Membrillo. You don't need much per serving. Cynara Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 19:14:40 -0500 From: "Phil Troy/ G. Tacitus Adamantius" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Quinces in 14th century France To:Cooks within the SCA Also sprach James Prescott: >> Any other 14th century quince pastes (or quince recipes) out there > > There are mentions of quince, and one recipe, in Chiquart. > > Check French Tacuinum Sanitatis (sorry, I have no reference). > > Thorvald It is alleged by the Larousse Gastronomique that cotignac has been an industial product of the city of... I think... Poitiers... since the Hundred Years' War. They still sell it in round ingots stamped with a picture of Joan of Arc. Adamantius Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 00:24:22 -0800 From: David Friedman Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Quinces To: Cooks within the SCA > Poling about the web for idea for my quince crop I found: > www.coquinaria.nl/english/recipes/04.5histrecept.htm > > Quince cake said to be a 16th century recipe cited to a "ms UB Gent > 476. > > Good source for period use? > > Simon Sinneghe > riaroak, Summits, An Tir Quinces in Paste (Du Fait de Cuisine) is good--there is also a version of the recipe in one of the English cookbooks. There are various late period recipes for quince paste--which I gather is the original meaning of "marmelade." There are some meat and quince recipes in the Andalusian cookbook. The first and third of those are in the Miscellany--no quince paste recipe there yet. Just do a search for "quince." -- David/Cariadoc www.daviddfriedman.com Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 09:07:47 -0600 From: "Terry Decker" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Quinces To: "Cooks within the SCA" > Poling about the web for idea for my quince crop I found: > www.coquinaria.nl/english/recipes/04.5histrecept.htm > > Quince cake said to be a 16th century recipe cited to a "ms UB Gent > 476. > > Good source for period use? > > Simon Sinneghe The author's recipe has been "modernised;" however, just above it appears a transcription and translation of the original recipe. I'm not familiar with the particular manuscript, but the citation is reasonable and the site bibliography provides: Ria Jansen-Sieben and Johanna Maria van Winter, De keuken van de Late Middeleeuwen. (The kitchen of the Late Middle Ages) Bert Bakker, Amsterdam, 1989 (revised edition ..) I would try to learn more about the history of the manuscript and would work out a personal adaptation of the translated recipe, but I would say that the site is a reasonable source for our purposes. Bear Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 10:17:36 -0500 From: Daniel Myers Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Quinces To: Cooks within the SCA On Nov 17, 2004, at 3:24 AM, David Friedman wrote: >> Poling about the web for idea for my quince crop I found: >> www.coquinaria.nl/english/recipes/04.5histrecept.htm >> Quince cake said to be a 16th century recipe cited to a "ms UB Gent >> 476. >> Good source for period use? > > Quinces in Paste (Du Fait de Cuisine) is good--there is also a version > of the recipe in one of the English cookbooks. > > There are various late period recipes for quince paste--which I gather > is the original meaning of "marmelade." > > There are some meat and quince recipes in the Andalusian cookbook. > > The first and third of those are in the Miscellany--no quince paste > recipe there yet. Just do a search for "quince." Here are some quince recipes... if you have a spare dozen or so, send 'em my way! 68 To make a quince pie. Peel the quinces and cut the core cleanly out with a knife, fry them in fat. After that stuff the quinces with currants, sugar, cinnamon and cloves. Afterwards take beef marrow or finely chopped kidney suet or skimmed fat from some other meat and put good Malavosia or Reinfal on it, sugar, cinnamon and cloves, however it seems good to you. The dough for the pie is found in number [sixty one]. [Das Kuchbuch der Sabina Welserin, V. Armstrong (trans.)] 107 To make a quince tart. Take quinces and cook them well and strain it and put sugar, cinnamon and strong wine thereon. Apple and pear tarts are made in the same way. [Das Kuchbuch der Sabina Welserin, V. Armstrong (trans.)] 205 How to make quince bread. Take two pratzamer of quinces and boil them in water so that they lie closely together. And when they are cooked, take them out, peel them cleanly and thoroughly and pass them through a hair sieve, until you have a little less than a half pound. And take two ounces of sugar. The sugar must be refined beforehand. For each pound of sugar take a quart of water and after that an egg white. And put the quinces into a large bowl and stir it around with a big wooden spoon for as long as a soft-boiled egg cooks. And after you have stirred it well, then put an egg white into it and stir it around as long as before. And when you have stirred it, then put two spoonfuls of refined sugar into it and prepare it each time as at the first. Continue until you have put into it five eggs and the stated amount of sugar, then take wafers cut into long strips and spread it on them, however you would have it. And lay them on a board and lay it on the oven. Be careful that the oven is not too hot. And when it begins to dry out on top, then put them on a board in back of the oven, until they have dried out. The sugar must stay in weak heat the entire time, so that it does not become cold. Then they are ready. [Das Kuchbuch der Sabina Welserin, V. Armstrong (trans.)] CXXXIII - To make marmalade of quinces good and fantastic. Take the quinces and peel and put to boil in lots of water and cook until they are come down; take a basin holed or the grater, and grate very fine that you take all that is good, and guard that the seeds don't go into the grated quince. Save for 3 days in the air this grated mix before you put in the the honey, then for each pound of grated quinces you want to have 3 pounds of honey. Bring to a good boil together when the honey is cooked add spices fine and if you want for the mixture, put to boil a little of sugar, for 3 pounds of quince marmalade you want to have 6 ounces of sugar in change of spices. When it is cooked tip it onto a table bathed with fresh water, and make it in the way of sheets of pasta large and just less than half a finger thick, and make in the way of wafers and put in a "albarello" (kitchen salt pot, refers to a specific storage vessel) with spices and with laurel: that it does not go bad you must boil two hours until it is cooked always stirring. This quince marmalade you want to cook always well mixed with a flat wooden stirrer, etc. [Libro di cucina/ Libro per cuoco, L. Smithson (trans.)] TO MAKE QUINCE MARMALADE, take quinces and peel them, then cut in quarters and take out the eye and the seeds, then cook them in good red wine and then strain through a strainer: then take honey and boil it for a long time and skim it, then put your quinces in it and stir thoroughly, and keep boiling until the honey is reduced by half; then throw in powdered hippocras, and stir till cold, then divide into portions and keep it. [Le Menagier de Paris, J. Hinson (trans.)] To make rough red marmelade of Quinces. Take Quinces and pare them, cut them in small peces from the coare, then take as much sugar as the peces doe waye, and put the Quinces beinge cutt into an erthen pott and put halfe the sugar that you waied into the pott and as much water as will couer them, then sett them into an ouen with howsholde breade. then when they are paked poore them into a postnett or preseruinge pan and put the rest of the sugar to it, then bruse them with the back of a spoone, then boyle them with sturringe till it will come cleane from the bottome of the pan then boxe it. [Catherine Tolmach's Receipts of Pastery, Confectionary, & cetera.] Marmalade of Quinces, red. To make red Marmalade of Quinces, take a pound of Quinces and cut them in half, and take out the cores, and pare them; then take a pound of Sugar, and a quart of fair water, and put them all into a pan, and let them boyl with a soft fire, and sometimes turn and keep them covered with a pewter dish, so that the steam or air may come a little out: the longer they are in boyling, the better colour they will have: and when they be soft take a Knife, and cut them cross upon the top, it will make the syrup go through that they may be all of the like colour: then set a little of your syrup to cool, and when it beginneth to be thick, then break your Quinces with a slice or spoon, so small as you can in the pan, and then strew a little fine Sugar in your boxes bottom, and so put it up. [The English Housewife, G. Markham] // Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 09:41:17 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Stanifer Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Quinces To: Cooks within the SCA --- Etain1263 at aol.com wrote: > ddfr at daviddfriedman.com writes: >> There are various late period recipes for quince paste--which I >> gather is the original meaning of "marmelade." > > I am also dealing with quinces..bought at market. The recipes for quince > paste that I have read (late English sources) refer to rolling and "stamping" > the paste...or rolling it on a mold. This sounded more like a candy to me. That would most likely be Cotignac. Cotignac is a sweetmeat made from quince paste, and according to some, has been manufactured in Orleans since the time of Joan of Arc (and her image is still stamped into the paste to this day). However, the Larrousse Gastronomique sites no evidence of industrial manufacture before the time of Louis XI. The Nymphs of Greek legend were said to have offered quince paste to Jupiter when he was a child. My source indicates that quince paste in antiquity was originally made with honey instead of sugar. William de Grandfort Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 11:44:46 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Stanifer Subject: [Sca-cooks] RE: Quinces/Cotignac To:sca-cooks at ansteorra.org The Splendid Table cites these remarks from David Karp regarding the Quince: "The quince is native to the Caucasus and northern Persia, but cultivation spread to the eastern Mediterranean basin. Many suppose that the Forbidden Fruit of the Garden of Eden was a quince. In Greek leged, Helen of Troy bribed Paris to award a quince to Aphrodite as the prize in a beauty contest, starting the Trojan War. Medieval cooks regarded the quince as the most useful of fruits, and spiced it with pepper,ginger, cloves, cinnamon and nutmeg. At medieval courts and banquets, nobles enjoyed quince jelly for dessert: cotignac in France, cotogna in Italy, and carne de membrillo in Spain, all still popular. In Tudor and Stuart times, quince marmalade, wrapped in gold foil, was regarded as an aprodisiac. Today, the quince is especially popular in subtropical climates, such as parts of Mexico and Latin America, where deciduous tree fruits like apples do not thrive." The cotignac I have made was very easy to produce, and the high pectin content made it very easy to mold an unmold. I used a Carmex tin, and made a 'Crusader Cross' stamp out of Polymer Clay (shhhh!) to imprint the design. The first attempt stuck to the tin, so I dusted it very lightly with cornstarch and the rest came out with no problem. I'm assuming one could use a bit of oil and dusting of sugar to facilitate unmolding, which might be more 'period' (I don't know). All in all, the candies were very good (slightly tart-sweet with a nice pink color...not the deep red I have seen in pictures), buta bit of a pain to do one at a time in the Carmex tin :) William de Grandfort Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 09:55:59 -0800 From: Susan Fox Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Hot off the presses: A new Feudal Gourmet pamphlet! To: Cooks within the SCA > Forwarded by request > --------------------- > > Hot off the presses: A new Feudal Gourmet pamphlet! > > Researching a medieval Recipe: Condoignac - a Quince Paste from Paris, > 1393-1394. > > Our latest pamphlet is not a recipe collection, but an example of how > to meticulously reconstruct a medieval recipe, from researching each > of the ingredients, to analyzing in depth the multiple translations of > the recipe, and going through multiple combinations of the ingredients > to achieve a happy final result. A great example of taking medieval > cooking to a higher level of research. $3.00 I did this once. Came out well but I wish people had actually eaten more of it. I guess we stuffed the guests too full for the Twelve Treasures of Christmas to go over all that well. I hate to think that I broke that apple peeler for nothing. Quince tangent: MUCH harder to work with than apples. I had one of those hand-cranked peeler/corer gadgets which worked for about two and a half quinces, then the spikes on which the fruit were impaled broke clean off. My SCA nephew Celleach drilled out the nubs and installed steel nails instead. That worked on the rest of the quinces and I still have the rebuilt cranker to this day! Selene Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 08:07:38 -0800 (PST) From: "Judith L. Smith Adams" Subject: [Sca-cooks] Quince & Beginner's Luck To: Cooks within the SCA Susan Fox wrote: >>>> Quince tangent: MUCH harder to work with than apples. I had one of those hand-cranked peeler/corer gadgets which worked for about two and a half quinces, then the spikes on which the fruit were impaled broke clean off. My SCA nephew Celleach drilled out the nubs and installed steel nails instead. That worked on the rest of the quinces and I still have the rebuilt cranker to this day! Selene <<<< Last fall I was gifted with a half-full shopping bag of quince. Being more intrepid than systematic sometimes, and having failed dismally in the past to cook quince successfully from a recipe, I winged it and came up with something marvelous. Selected the ripest quince, scrubbed but did not peel or core them. Set 'em upright in a baking dish, added a half-cup of water, covered snugly with foil, and baked in 324F oven until tender. Perfumed the house gloriously. The cooked quince were dead easy to peel and core, and the baking had brought out their sugars so that they were delicious to eat just as they were. My traveling friends returned and helped me eat the entire 9 x 13 panful. I had to bake another batch for paste, which was very good, although I like the chutney even better... The second batch, made from slightly green fruit, wasn't quite as easy to handle, nor did it taste all that good eaten plainly, but was still easier to work with than peeling raw, and still made excellent cooked, sweetened things. Looking forward to next quince season... Judith Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 11:56:52 -0800 From: Mark Hendershott Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Quinces, was Candied Citrus Peel To: Cooks within the SCA The quinces from my tree can sometime have mold or rot beginning at the flower end. I just cut it off, doesn't seem to effect the quality for jelly etc. Pests don't seem to be problem in general. Simon Sinneghe Briaroak, Summits, An Tir At 11:50 AM 1/4/2007, Urtatim wrote: > Susan Fox wrote: >>> Alas, the quinces looked terrible - they have all season - so i >>> didn't get any, which is a shame, since they're so fragrant, too. >> >> Too bad, they are probably just fine on the inside. I follow my >> nose and have never been led astray! > > Well, many had bruises, worm holes (not, not as in "Deep Space 9"), > and most had moldy flower ends. I wouldn't care if they were a bit > misshapen, or not smoothly colored. But they just looked unhealthy. Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 15:30:56 -0600 From: David Friedman Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] what do you do with Quinces? To: Cooks within the SCA > I have seen these boxes of tiny yellow quinces in the store, at > rather high prices, considering. There may be about a dozen or so in > a box, and the price hovers from 2.50 to 3, per box. > > What can you do with them, and how many would it take to do them > right? Five pounds of them would be rather...pricey...for an > experiment. > > Helen > Who has a pink flowering quince bush-and I have gotten *one* green > quince off of it in ten years.... There are at least two different plants referred to as "quince." The old world quince produces fruit that look and smell rather like apples--indeed, smell more intensely like apples than apples do. They are used for quince paste--the original meaning of "marmalade." They are also baked in pies and used rather like cooked apples in other period dishes. They are not suitable for eating raw, unlike apples. The Japanese quince is a different plant, widely used as an ornamental. I suspect that is your flowering quince bush. I don't know how its fruit would be used. -- David/Cariadoc www.daviddfriedman.com Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 10:35:32 -0800 From: Lilinah Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] what do you do with Quinces? To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org This is the first time i've heard of eating quinces raw as a good thing. I tasted mine before i cooked 'em, but they weren't a fruit i'd buy regularly to eat raw. > From what i've read and heard, generally quinces are cooked. Within "SCA-period" they're used many ways. Probably the most common is some form of quince paste, the fruit cooked with honey or sugar, and mashed, and cooked some more, until it is much denser than jam. Today membrillo (as it is called in Spain) is often eaten with Manchego cheese. Also, it was and still is made by the French (quince is "coing" in modern French). And IIRC there are some 16th C. English recipes for it, too, although i don't recall what the English called it back then. But one can do other things with quinces. When i bought a whole case of them way back, i used about half to make quince syrup (laimon-safarjali) from the 14th C. Arabic language cookbook "The Book of the Description of Familiar Foods" in early November 2001 for a feast (i was Iron Chef Persian). Then i used the other half to make chicken with quinces in early December 2001 for a feast i head cooked (the Beacons Gate Boar Hunt, this one with a mostly German menu). Since i don't have a commercial sized refrigerator, i kept the case in a very cool, somewhat dark place for the month between feasts. In that time, only two went over to the dark side. BOTH RECIPES FROM MY WEB SITE Laimun Safarjali Lemon-Quince-Rosewater Syrup Beverage When I was shopping for ingredients for the feast, I went to a Persian food store. I searched the shelves in hopes of finding a (synthetic) musk flavored extract or syrup called for in a couple recipes. Much to my surprise, I found a bottle of Lemon-Quince syrup from an American Persian food supplier. I bought it to taste test. It was delicious. My homemade syrup was even more delicious. Original: One part quince juice and three parts filtered syrup, in both of which you have boiled pieces of quince until nearly done. They are taken up, and the syrup takes it consistency. To every pound of the whole you add two ounces of lemon juice. Then return the pieces of quince; they improve the consistency. It is scented with musk, saffron and rose-water and taken up and used. - - - - - from The Book of the Description of Familiar Foods (Egypt, 1373 CE) - - - - - pp. 442-443, "Medieval Arab Cookery") My Recipe: 2 dozen quinces 5 to 8 pounds granulated white sugar juice of 12 lemons several capfuls of rosewater, Cortas brand 1. Cut quinces in quarters. Core and remove flower and stem ends. Cut further into eighths (that is, each quince is ultimately cut in eight pieces). 2. Put quinces in deep kettle, cover with water and turn fire to high. 3. Pour in 5 lb. sugar. Stir well. 4. When liquid begins to boil, reduce fire to medium and continue to simmer, stirring frequently so bottom of pan doesn't burn. 5. Do NOT mash quinces. I did and it was a BIG mistake. I did not get enough syrup, although the mashed quinces were delicious. 6. When liquid has thickened and has become a lovely amber-rose color - many hours later - remove from heat and allow to cool. 7. When cool enough to manage, put a strainer over a deep bowl, and begin scooping out quinces and liquid. Allow to strain without mashing or pressing fruit. Remove resulting liquid to another large container. 8. After you've drained the quinces well, and syrup has cooled, check the consistency and flavor. It should be somewhat syrupy and have a tart-sweet flavor. It doesn't need to be clear. In fact, the original recommends having some fruity bits in it, so you can add some mashed quince at this point. If syrup isn't sweet enough, put in kettle on high fire, add more sugar, stir well, bring to boil, then reduce to high simmer, and cook down a little more. 9. When syrup is thoroughly cooled, add lemon juice and rose water. 10. To drink, fill a pitcher about 2/3 full of water and add a bit of syrup. Taste. Add more syrup until you are satisfied (the commercial syrup, much denser than mine, is diluted 1 to 5). It should have a sweet-tart flavor, redolent of quinces and roses. ----- Chicken & Quince Stew Original 30. A good food. Take hens. Roast them, not very well. Tear them apart, into morsels, and let them boil in only fat and water. And take a crust of bread and ginger and a little pepper and anise. Grind that with vinegar and with the same strength as it. And take four roasted quinces and the condiment thereto of the hens. Let it boil well therewith, so that it even becomes thick. If you do not have quinces, then take roasted pears and make it with them. And give out and do not oversalt. - - - - - from Ein Buch von Guter Spise, German, 14th c. To Serve 75-80 as part of a four course feast with with 22 dishes 25 lbs chickens parts water to cover 20 quinces 10 cups bread crumbs 2 TB. powdered ginger 1 TB. powdered anise 1-1/2 tsp. ground white pepper 2-1/2 cups white wine vinegar chicken broth as needed 1. Boil chicken in water just barely to cover, until almost done. If still a little pink, that's ok, as it will cook further. 2. Roast quinces at 300 degrees Farenheit until tender, about 1 hour, and let cool. 3. Remove chicken from broth and let cool, saving broth. 4. Remove the crust from a loaf of white bread and tear up the white crumb. 5. Soak bread crumbs in vinegar. 6. When soft and moist through, mix with ginger, pepper, and anise. 7. Puree seasoned bread. 8. Dice quinces, discarding core and seeds. 9. When chicken is cool enough to handle, remove meat from bones and tear into bite-sized chunks. 10. Mix chicken and quinces with spiced bread crumb mixture, adding just enough broth to moisten. 11. Bring to a boil, reduce heat and cook until mixture is fairly thick. Stir constantly to make sure it doesn't burn on the bottom. Don't cook too long or chicken will become mush. NOTE: This tasted better than i thought it would. I was concerned that the tartness of the quinces along with the tanginess of the vinegar might be unpleasant. I was also concerned that the seasoning would not balance well. But it was fine. Only one plate came back to the kitchen and that was from a table of vegetarians. -- Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM) the persona formerly known as Anahita Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 19:00:25 +0100 From: Suey Subject: [Sca-cooks] What to do with Quinces? To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org Lilinah referring to the 16th century wrote: > . . .(quince is "coing" in modern French). . . i don't recall what > the English called it back then. The Middle English is coines, coynes, connes. By the 15th C they were called quyncis, quynses, quyneys quyncys or quynade. Susan Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 12:36:16 -0500 From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Single quince recipe? To: Cooks within the SCA On Nov 27, 2007, at 12:20 PM, S CLEMENGER wrote: > You could make murri with it (that would be appropriately medieval). > In more modern terms, it'd be wonderful in a warm fruit compote > (colors could be just stunning), or perhaps a tart? or a pastry- > wrapped baked apple idea like a baked apple dumpling? > --Maire There's a 15th-century English recipe for quinces that might work if the quince is large-ish. > ?.xxj. Quyncis or Wardouns in past. -- Take & make fayre Rounde > cofyns of fayre past; (th)an take fayre Raw Quynces, & pare hem with > a knyf, & take fayre out (th)e core (th)er-of ; (th)an take Sugre y- > now, & a lytel pouder gynger, & stoppe (th)e hole fulle ; & > cowche .ii. or .iij. wardonys or quynce3 in a cofyn, & keuer hem, & > lat hem bake ; & for defaut of Sugre, take hony ; but (th)en putte > pouder Pepir (th)er-on, & Gyngere, in (th)e maner be-for sayd.? > -- Harleian Ms 279, ~1420 C.E. ?Two Fifteenth-Century Cookery-Books? > ed. Thomas Austin, pub. Early English Text Society, printed by > The Oxford University Press, 1888, reprinted 1964 and 1996 > > XXI. Quinces or wardens in paste. -- Take and make nice round > piecrusts of good pastry, then take good raw quinces, and peel them > with a knife, and neatly take out their cores. Then take enough > sugar, and a little powdered ginger, and stuff the core holes full; > and lay two or three wardens or quinces in each piecrust, & cover > them, and let them bake; and if you have no sugar, take honey; but > then put powdered pepper on them, and ginger, in the same manner as > above. Adamantius Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 12:33:01 -0800 From: Lilinah Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Single quince recipe? To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org Cainder wrote: > Surprisingly, I actually got a quince off of my tree this year - it > was just planted this spring. > > Anyone have a recommendation for a recipe that would use a single > quince? Condoignac will take more quinces than I have access to > right now, so I'm looking for other recipes. Doesn't have to be > medieval, though it would be nice. The one large beautiful quince i got at the Berkeley Bowl, i cored and cubed (big cubes) - i left the skin on. Then i put it in a saucepan with enough water to cover and enough sugar (3/4 cup at the most - you might like more) and the juice of about 1/3 lemon to prevent oxidation. I brought it just to a boil, then reduced the heat and let it simmer, stirring occasionally. When the syrup gets thick you need to stir frequently so it won't scorch on the bottom. When the quince is as tender as you like it, and a lovely rosy color, remove from the heat and let cool. I was doing other stuff at the time, running into the kitchen from time to time to check on it, so i don't recall exactly how long it took. Not horribly long... 45 min? Then I stirred in about 1/2 tsp. orange flower water. If you don't have that, some recipes i've read say to add a little vanilla extract. However, I feel that vanilla is overused by Americans, so i don't use it often. There are so many other possibilities. Since quinces and roses are in the same botanical family, 1/4 tsp rose water would also have been nice. That single lovely large quince made about 2-1/2 cups stewed quince. I swooned and moaned a little every time i ate some, it was so amazing. I recommend this recipe because one can appreciate the full fragrance of the quince without it being diluted by other ingredients like chicken or cheese. Note that cotignac doesn't particularly appeal to me - too sweet and all that sugar interferes with my ability to taste the quince. -- Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM) the persona formerly known as Anahita Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 13:32:31 -0800 From: Lilinah Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Single quince recipe? To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Adamantius wrote: > There's a 15th-century English recipe for quinces that might work if > the quince is large-ish. > > .xxj. Quyncis or Wardouns in past. -- Take & make fayre Rounde > cofyns of fayre past; (th)an take fayre Raw Quynces, & pare hem with > a knyf, & take fayre out (th)e core (th)er-of ; (th)an take Sugre y- > now, & a lytel pouder gynger, & stoppe (th)e hole fulle ; & > cowche .ii. or .iij. wardonys or quynce3 in a cofyn, & keuer hem, & > lat hem bake ; & for defaut of Sugre, take hony ; but (th)en putte > pouder Pepir (th)er-on, & Gyngere, in (th)e maner be-for sayd.? > -- Harleian Ms 279, ~1420 C.E. "Two Fifteenth-Century Cookery-Books" > ed. Thomas Austin, pub. Early English Text Society, printed by > The Oxford University Press, 1888, reprinted 1964 and 1996 > > XXI. Quinces or wardens in paste. -- Take and make nice round > piecrusts of good pastry, then take good raw quinces, and peel them > with a knife, and neatly take out their cores. Then take enough > sugar, and a little powdered ginger, and stuff the core holes full; > and lay two or three wardens or quinces in each piecrust, & cover > them, and let them bake; and if you have no sugar, take honey; but > then put powdered pepper on them, and ginger, in the same manner as > above. > > Adamantius I made a similar recipe with 3 fall pears (wardens) - which are softer and cook more quickly than quinces - in each crust for my very feast in 2000 (i attended my first event in May 1999). When the crust was as baked as it could stand without burning, the pears were still rather too hard within the crust. I didn't realize this, however, because we brought out the baked fruit - which looked golden half crowns, what with the three tall standing pears - and served the dishes whole. However, it became clear that the pears were still hard when the dishes from the dessert course came back to the kitchen. So I would suggest baking or boiling or steaming the fruit whole until it is soft enough (but not too soft), then enrobing the fruit with the dough and baking. Here's what i did: Paste's de Poires Crues Le Viandier de Guillaume Tirel dit Taillevent, 15th c. ed. Original Mise sur bout en paste', et emply le creux de sucre a trois grosses poires comme ung quarteron de sucre, bien couverte, et dore'e d'oeufz, ou de saffran, et mis au four. Translation from The Medieval Kitchen by Redon, Sabban, and Serventi: Stand three pears in a pie and fill the gaps with about a quarteron of sugar, cover well, and glaze with eggs or saffron, and put in the oven. Pies of Whole Pears Makes 10 10 prepared double crust pie crusts Butter Flour 30 large pears 6-1/4 cups sugar 5 eggs beaten 10 disposable aluminum foil loaf pans 1. Preheat oven to 400? F. 2. Generously butter, then flour loaf pans 3 a. Take 1 and 1/2 prepared crusts, knead together briefly, then roll into rectangle to line a loaf pan with enough overhanging dough to fold over the filling; it should be just under 1/4 inch thick. Test one so that it fits. 3 b. Noting that it doesn't fit, make more pie dough, because the pre-made crusts are not enough. 3 c. Repeat process with augmented crusts and pans. 4. Peel pears, leaving the stems attached. 5. Arrange 3 side by side in each pan. 6. Fill the space between the pears with 1/2 cup plus 2 Tablespoons granulated white sugar. 7. Fold the dough over the pears and seal well, letting stems protrude. 8. Glaze the tops with eggs. 9. Bake about 90 minutes, until golden. Do not burn. note that we took the pies out of the oven after a bit over an hour, because the crusts were done. 10. Let cool completely. 11. Unmold carefully by placing each pan on serving plate and cutting the thin aluminum pan away from the pie with a kitchen shears. In the end, the pies looked wonderful - like crowns or mountain ranges - golden and crispy. The pie dough was lovely and flaky and tasted marvelous, thanks to my intrepid kitchen crew. We didn't cook the pies the full 90 minutes because the crusts were cooked before that time, but the pears were not quite cooked enough. Perhaps the pears needed to be briefly parboiled before being baked. But this is worth trying to get right. Each pie looks so impressive and the taste is a blend of the light sweetness of the pear and the richness of the crust and melted sugar. -- Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM) the persona formerly known as Anahita Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 07:38:04 -0500 From: Johnna Holloway Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Single quince recipe? To: Cooks within the SCA Depending on the size of the quince (and a single quince can weigh upwards of more than one-half pound) one could make quince paste. 30 - To make paste of Genua of Quinces. Take Quinces, and pare them, and cut them in slices, and bake them in an oven dry in an earthen pot, without any other juyce than their owne: then take one pound thereof; strain it, and put it into a stone-mortar with halfe a pound of sugar; and when you have beaten it up to a paste, print it in your moulds, and dry it three or foure times in an oven after you have drawne bread: and when it is thorowly dry and hardned, you may box it, and it will keep all the yeere. / * Delights for Ladies* by Hugh Plat. /Numerous modern recipes and instructions can be found. (Weigh the cooked quince paste and add an equal measure of sugar to finish is standard.) http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/food/views/14630 has one. Johnnae Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2008 19:00:13 -0400 From: "adamantius1 at verizon.net" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Can you identify the food? To: Cooks within the SCA FWIW, I understand both Pliny and Columella mention varieties of quince that are edible in their raw state... Adamantius On Sep 3, 2008, at 12:04 PM, Susan Fox wrote: Michael Gunter wrote: > I am pretty sure that is not a pear but a quince, just looking at the > puckery folds on the blossom end. Did historical breeds of pears have > those? Quinces do. Considering this is a feast and the fruits are being sent out for dining, I rather question the use of the quince. Quinces are only edible once they are cooked. This looks like raw fruit being sent out. -------- Fair enough, I am just going by the fruit in the picture. Well, maybe early breeds of pears looked like that too. Or maybe they are distributing all the fresh fruits in the house to their various destinations, including the kitchen. Who can say without having been there? I'm not quite that old. Yet. Selene C. Date: Fri, 09 Oct 2009 21:00:50 -0400 From: Johnna Holloway To: Cooks within the SCA Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Quince Query I did quinces in two ways for one trial. I cored the quinces and peeled them. Added an equal weight of sugar and boiled the cores and peels until very soft in a pint of water per pound of quince. Strained that mixture to remove the cores and peels and then reboiled the syrup until it thickened. Poured that out. let it set up and then cut it into diamonds. The quinces that were left after being peeled and cored were thinly sliced and prepared in the manner of chips. They were simmered in a sugar syrup until soft and then dried in a very low oven until dried. Both were very good. Johnnae Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 20:30:49 -0500 From: Jennifer Carlson To: Cooks list Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Ripening quinces Now that i've had a chance to look through my cookbooks (a lovely way to spend a chilly, Sunday afternoon), I have some more thoughts that might be helpful: The recipe I use is from John Murrell's "A Daily Exercise for Ladies and Gentlewomen" and requires equal weights of quinces and sugar. Murrell does not specify the ripeness of the quinces, but I first ran across this recipe via the redaction in Lorwin's "Dining With William Shakespeare," which calls for "fragrant quinces." She also reduced the sugar content to 1 cup per 2.5 pounds of fruit. I found I preferred Murrell's recipe to hers, but I did stay with her recommendation of fully ripe fruit. Some recipes work better with greener fruit. My grandmother remembers using quinces and apples to make jellies, rather than commercial pectin. Because fruit has more pectin the greener it is, it makes sense to use green quinces if you're making a jelly or preserve with a low-pectin fruit. "The Sensible Cook," a 17th-century Dutch source, contains a recipe for candying quinces, and specifically requires that the quinces be "not too yellow or ripe" and "freshly picked." Since riper fruit will break down more quickly with cooking, which you do not want when candying fruit, greener is better. That quicker break-down is part of why I prefer riper fruit. Also, the riper the quince, the more flavor it has, which is likely why the quince wine recipe from Farley's "Art of London Cookery" calls for fully ripe quinces. Don't worry, the ripe fruit has sufficient pectin to allow your paste to set firmly. In Borella's "The Court and Country Confecitoner" (1770) the quince paste recipe reads "Let your quinces be full ripe." This recipe is on Ivan Day's website, as are some good photos of ripe quinces, at: http://www.historicfood.com/Quinces%20Recipe.htm Talana Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 11:32:38 -0400 From: Elaine Koogler To: Cooks within the SCA Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Quince Query I have been told, though I haven't tried it yet, that a really good way to boil down the quince mixture to get the paste is to do it in a crock pot...leaving the lid off so it will reduce. Kiri Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 04:08:15 -0400 From: Sharon Palmer To: Cooks within the SCA Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Quince Query <<< I have been told, though I haven't tried it yet, that a really good way to boil down the quince mixture to get the paste is to do it in a crock pot...leaving the lid off so it will reduce. >>> I tried using a crockpot for plum preserves and it didn't work at all. They got brown and nasty and smelled like prunes, but hadn't thickened. I did a second batch in a sheet pan spread out half an inch thick in a low oven, and it worked brilliantly. I got clear pink beautiful preserves that tasted great. That was plums not quinces. I had the crockpot close to full. Maybe it would work with a smaller batch. Ranvaig Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 08:22:23 -0600 From: "S CLEMENGER" To: "Cooks within the SCA" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Quince Query I've used the crockpot to make both "white" and "black" quince paste, and it worked brilliantly. I would have loved to have had that old crockpot when I was making apple butter a few weeks ago. Good LORD I had to watch it like a hawk as it thickened, and it took days! --Maire Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 08:32:37 -0600 From: Jennifer Carlson To: Cooks list Subject: [Sca-cooks] Raw quince (was: persimmon) You don't want to try eating raw quince. It's like eating green persimmon - seriously sour. Quinces really need to be cooked to be edible. Talana Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 19:02:20 -0400 From: Sharon Palmer To: Cooks within the SCA Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] quince (was persimmon) <<< I did see fresh quinces several weeks ago (at Central Market) and considered buying one to try it. But at $1 each, I didn't want to buy several w/o a recipe and wasn't sure if I could eat it raw just to try one. But at that price, no wonder folks have said it was cheaper to buy the pre-made quince paste than to make it yourself. Which is what I did for my recent Nobles Luncheon. >>> Quince references from Rumpolt: Ein Quitten Safft. - quince juice - this may mean juice reduced to something that can be shaped. Ein Quitten Lattwerg - spiced quince preserve Quitten Pasteten kalt. - cold quince pie Gantze Quitten eyngemacht. - whole quince preserved Quitten Spaltlein im Safft eyngemacht - quince halfs preserved in juice Spaltlein is perhaps related to spalten - to split and might mean quince cut in half Wei? Quitten Safft. - white quince juice Wei? Quitten Lattwergen. - white spiced quince preserves Wei? Bischgoten von Quitten - white biscotti of quince Geschnittenen Quitten Safft. - chopped quince juice Eyngemachte Quitten Latwergen. - preserved quince spiced preserves Quitten Safft geschitten. - chopped quince juice Eyngemachte Quitten - preserved quince Quitten Confict. - candied quince Quitten Lattwergen geschnitten. - chopped quince spiced preserves Allerley Safft/ vnd Quitten Lattwergen. - various juices and quince spiced preserves Ein gebratene Gan?/ gef?llt mit K?sten vnd Quitten. - a roasted goose stuffed with chestnuts and quince And four recipes for preserves with quince, not yet translated. There might be others in the sections not yet transcribed. (Dr Gloning said he finished his transcription over a year ago, but its not on his site yet). Eingemachten 3. Keib Birne / und thu sie in ein Sack / und pre? sie au? / nimm andere Birne / sch?le und schneidt sie fein klein und d?nn / thu sie in den Birnesaft / und la? darmit sieden / zertreibs mit einem h?ltzern L?ffel / und wiltu es f?? machen / so la? nicht gar zu dick sieden. Haftu aber kein Zucker darein / so le?t du es desto dicker sieden. Haftu aber Quittensaft / so geu? darunter / so wirt es desto besser. Also macht man die Birne Latwerge. Du kanst auch wohl Saft nemmen von Birne und keinen Zucker / la? sieden / bi? du es vermeinest in einen Model zu giessen / und in ein Schachtel thun / so wirt es sch?n und lieblich sehen. Eingemachten 4. Nimm ein Zitron /und ist er innivendig saftig / so schneidt den Saft herau? / und pre? jn / feudt jhn mit Quittensaft / und machs f?? / geu? in ein Model / oder in ein Schachtel / so wirt es gut ind lieblisch. Und wenn du es auf ein Tisch schneideft / so ist es gut und sch?n. Nimm den andern Zitron / und schneidt jn fein l?nglicht / schneidt dz wei? von der Schalen / stich die Schalen mit einer Gluua / weichs in ein kalt Wasser / sch?t ein Handt col Salz oder frei darein /darnach du Zitron haft / unn la? darinnen weichen ein drei oder vier Nacht / wasch wider au? drei oder vier Wassern / und la? widerumb ein Nacht oder zivo weichen /da? das Salz herau? kompt / setz in einem uberzindten Fischkessel mit Wasser auf / und la? sieden / bi? da? man die gelbe Schal ein wenig durchgreiffen kan / thu es auf ein saubers Bret mit dem wei? / das du hast darvon geschnitten: Denn das gelb vom Zitron mu? l?nger sieden / als das wei? / und wenns hat ein wenig uberschlagen / so thu es in klaren Zucker / der gel?utert und fein dick gesotten ist / la? darinnen ligen ein tag oder vier / so wirt der Zucker wider d?nn / l?uter jhn als denn wider auf ein neuives mit wei? vom En / la? wider dick sieden / feig jn furch ein W?llen Tuch / geu? jn wider uber den Zitron / und das thu drei oder vier mal also / so wirt es desto besler / und bleibt lang. Also macht man die Zitron ein. Du magft auch die Schalen von Zitron fein d?nn und l?nglicht schneiden / so ist es auch zierlich und gut. Eingemachten 7. Nimm Quitten / aschel und schneidt sie entzwei / oder la? ganze / und stich den butzen au? mit einem scharpfen Ensen / da? die Quitten hol wirdt / und doch ganze bleibt / setz mit Wasser auf / und la? sieden / bi? weich wirdt. Thu es auf ein aubers Bret / und la? kalt werden / bestechs mit Nelken und Zimt / thu es in einen Sirup / der lauter und dick gestotten ist / la? darinnen ligen / bi? der Sirup wider d?nn wirdt an den Quitten / la? widerumb wohl miteinander sieden / sch?t es auf ein Durchschlag / und setz den Sirup wider auf das Feuwer / und la? ihn gemach sieden / bi? er verfaumt wirdt / geu? in wider uber die Quitten / und halt die Quitten / da? der Sirup dar?ber gehet / da? die nicht schimlet werden. Und wenn sie w?llen schimlen / so thu den Sirup herab / und la? ihn wider sieden. Und also macht man die Quitten ein. Nimm Quitten / die Steinicht feind / schel unn schneidt sie / setz sie im Wasser zu / und la? sie sieden / thu sie in ein S?cklein / und pre? au? / dz der Saft dick / wirt setz sie auf das Feuwer / und la? sieden. Und wenn der Saft schier gesotten ist / so thu ein h?ltzern L?ffel voll gestoffen Zucker darein / und la? darmit geschwindt sieden / und wenn du es vom Feuwer wilt hinweg nemmen / so thu saur Limoniensaft / der frisch ist / dar?ber. Du magft es in ein Model giessen / oder in ein Schachtel. Wiltu aber den Saftfein r?tlich haben / so seudt jhn fein gemach / und je lenger du jhn siedest / je r?ter er wirdt. Eingemachten 8. Nim Quitten / und reib sie / thu sie in ein S?cklein / und pre? / thu es in ein saubers Geschirr / und setz auf Kolen / und la? sieden. Thu die Quitten / die du klein und d?nn geschnitten hast / in dem Saft / und la? miteinander sieden / und nim ein saubern h?ltzern L?ffel / zerr?r die Quitten darmit / bi? sie dick werden. Und wenns schier eiugesotten ist/ so thu ein wetssen Zucker / der gel?utert ist / darein / la? sieden / bi? wohl dick wirt / thu es in ein saubere Schachtel. Und also macht man die gebrockte Latwerge. Ranvaig Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 10:21:42 -0700 From: David Friedman To: Cooks within the SCA Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] quince marmalade recipe I do have a good and simple recipe for quince preserves, from al-Warraq. A Recipe for Conserving Quince Al-Warraq p. 486 Quarter and core quince, put it in a pot with honey, and pour water on it. Let the pot come to a boil then drain the quince, return it to the pot and add honey to it. Do not use water this time. Cook the qunce again until it is well done. 1 lb quince 2 c honey Core and quarter the quince(s). dissolve _ c honey in 1 _ c of water. Put the quince in the liquid, bring it to a boil, then drain off the liquid, return the quince to the pot along with 1 _ c honey, bring the honey to a boil and cook for about an hour. Put the quince and boiled honey in a jar, seal it; it will keep for a long time. -- David/Cariadoc www.daviddfriedman.com Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2010 16:36:50 -0400 From: Johnna Holloway To: Cooks within the SCA Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] quince marmalade recipe Been quite a while since I did quince and I didn't do marmalades. (Although if I were to do those, I would get out C. Anne Wilson's excellent The Book of Marmalade from 2002 I just did quince paste/candy where you add equal weights of cooked pulp and sugar and mix two together and mold. The clear liquid/jelly was poured off and set up on its own. I stewed them in just a bit of water, poured off the liquid for the jelly and sugared the pulp. Mine came out rosy dark pink. I read through the section on MWBof Cookery before I started and ended up using some recipes of Nostredamus's. --- I also have done this and it worked well. Quince Two Ways... I did quinces in two ways for one trial. I cored the quinces and peeled them. Added an equal weight of sugar and boiled the cores and peels until very soft in a pint of water per pound of quince. Strained that mixture to remove the cores and peels and then reboiled the syrup until it thickened. Poured that out. let it set up and then cut it into diamonds. The quinces that were left atfer being peeled and cored were thinly sliced and prepared in the manner of chips. They were simmered in a sugar syrup until soft and then dried in a very low oven until dried. Both were very good. ----- See also http://www.historicfood.com/Quinces%20Recipe.htm from 2007 Depending on the size of the quince (and a single quince can weigh upwards of more than one-half pound) one could make quince paste. 30 - To make paste of Genua of Quinces. Take Quinces, and pare them, and cut them in slices, and bake them in an oven dry in an earthen pot, without any other juyce than their owne: then take one pound thereof; strain it, and put it into a stone-mortar with halfe a pound of sugar; and when you have beaten it up to a paste, print it in your moulds, and dry it three or foure times in an oven after you have drawne bread: and when it is thorowly dry and hardned, you may box it, and it will keep all the yeere. / * Delights for Ladies* by Hugh Plat. /Numerous modern recipes and instructions can be found. (Weigh the cooked quince paste and add an equal measure of sugar to finish is standard.) http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/food/views/14630 has one. ---- Beth Hensperger in Not Your Mother's Slow Cooker Cookbook says "Combine the quince, water, sugar, vanilla bean, and lemon zest and juice in the slow cooker. Cover and cook on LOW for 5 to 7 hours." Johnnae Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 10:21:42 -0700 From: David Friedman To: Cooks within the SCA Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] quince marmalade recipe <<< I do have a good and simple recipe for quince preserves, from al-Warraq. A Recipe for Conserving Quince Al-Warraq p. 486 >>> ------------------------------ I made quince paste this way last year and the results were rather good. It is based a little bit on the recipe for Cotignac in Le Menagier Peel, core and cut up the quinces. Put into a saucepan with some red wine and a little ginger, cinnamon and pepper and simmer until the quince is soft. Press the whole lot through a strainer, then return to the saucepan with an equal volume of sugar to the volume of quince puree. Cook, stirring until the spoon, drawn through the mixture, makes a clean line across the bottom of the pan. Pour into trays (or whatever) lined with plastic wrap or baking paper and leave to cool. Angharad From the FB: Medieval & Renaissance Cooking and Recipes group: Urtatim Al-Qurtubiyya Shirvani (1520s Ottoman) 128 verso The composition of Seferceliyye. Some meat is turned into kalye, before it is done cooking some honey is put in and it is brought to a boil, some cut up quinces [are added], when nearly done cooking some dried apricots, plums, and almonds are added. [my translation from the Turkish] Marianna Yerasimos has her recipe in "500 Years of Ottoman Cuisine" pp. 180-181 50 g almonds 150 g dried apricots 1 dessert spoon honey (2 tsp. US) 1 cup warm water 500 g mutton, cut into large chunks 3 medium quinces 2 tsp. sugar 45 g butter salt Soak almonds in hot water for 10 min., slip almonds out of skins, and halve them. --- Soak dried apricots in warm water for 2-3 hours. When soft halve them. --- Dissolve honey in a cup of warm water. --- To make meat kalye: Wash meat, put into saucepan, cover with lid, and heat on low until meat releases its juices. Remove lid, and brown meat in its own fat on medium heat. Season meat with a little salt, add diluted honey. Lower heat, and continue cooking 35-40 min until thoroughly softened. --- Whie meat is cooking, peel quinces and remove hard seedy parts. Slice into thick half-moons - a medium quince will give 8 slices. In a small frying pan, melt butter, then fry quince slices until they give off a wonderful aroma. --- Arrange quince slices on top of meat, sprinkle with sugar, and cook 15-20 min on low heat. Check liquid level occasionally, if too low, add a little water. Before removing the pan from the heat, add almonds and apricots, bring to a boil for a moment or two, and turn off heat. Let stand for 15 min before serving. Urtatim Al-Qurtubiyya I worked out my own version, served it with a reconstructed saffron rice recipe (rice cooked in chicken broth, stir in saffron soaked in rosewater - well, there's a bit more to it...) OMG! The kitchen smelled like heaven from the combo of quince, rosewater, and saffron. Urtatim Al-Qurtubiyya Back to quinces... i've made this dish with apples, it would be fabulous with quinces. It's it bit (well, more than a bit) too sweet for my taste, but the diners loved it. From the recipes of Shirvani, early 15th c. folios 127 verso - 128 verso Tüffahiyye ve Seferceliyye [This dish] is called Tuffahiye with apples, Seferceliye with quinces. 2 okka fresh and sweet apples, 300 dirhems sugar, 150 dirhems almonds, 100 dirhems dates, and one okka sheep, lamb or chicken meat are taken. First, the meat is turned into kalye [cut up and in a small amount of water], cooked a bit. 250 dirhems sugar are dissolved [in water] in a pot [and cooked] until it is the proper consistency [syrup], then 200 dirhems peeled and cored [whole] apples are cooked in the pot with the sugar [syrup]. Rosewater is added to the apples in the syrup a little at a time as the consistency deteriorates [gets too thick] and cooked again. Repeat three times to bring to the proper consistency. Then the apples are removed one by one, and placed on a dish. The cooked meat is taken out of its water, lowered into the sugar [syrup], and the pot is left on the edge of the fire. [128 recto] One okka of the apples is beaten in a wooden mortar with a little water, squeezed thoroughly, then the juice is strained through a cloth. The kettle is cleaned, and the apple juice is poured into the kettle with the cooked meat. All the almonds are chopped, and as much as 100 dirhems [of them] are put into the kettle, also some sugar [syrup] is added to the meat. Then the remaining apples are cut into thin slices. A little saffron crushed in rosewater is added to the other ingredients. 15 dirhems [wheat] starch are crushed with rose water, the dates are cut in half, the pits are removed, and they are crushed in rose water. This is emptied over the meat and then the prepared [candied] apples are placed on top, it sprinkled with rose water, on it candied almonds [128 verso] are scattered, this is very nice. [my translation] An okka is about 1 kilo. And, yes, candied lamb... October 29 at 3:47pm · Like Urtatim Al-Qurtubiyya Note that this is nothing like the dish of the same name in al-Baghdadi. Edited by Mark S. Harris fruit-quinces-msg Page 52 of 52