fruit-melons-msg - 2/15/08 Period melons. Referances. Recipes. Watermelons, cantelope. NOTE: See also the files: fruits-msg, fruit-pears-msg, fruit-quinces-msg, fruit-apples-msg, nuts-msg, drying-foods-msg, cider-msg, vinegar-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ From: Uduido at aol.com Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 22:17:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: SC - Watermelon << is watermelon period? >> Watermelon is period. "Citrullus vulgaris. Native of tropical Africa....Has been under cultivation for centuries in India and Egypt; is shown in early Egyptian paintings andd described in Sanskrit Of the four known species three are African and one is Asiatic." I have also seen at least two period paintings where watermelons are clearly depicted and of course, the recipe I posted was taken from Coriadoc's "Collection of Medieval and Renaissance Cookbooks> "The Baghdad Cookery Book" which translation clearly states watermelon. Lord Ras From: JTRbear at aol.com Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 00:09:33 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: SC - Two questions... Watermelon was smuggled over to the new world aboard slave ships, which is why it is associated with african americans. Jean-Phillipe Lours From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com> Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 23:19:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: SC - Watermelon >I have also seen at least two period paintings where watermelons are clearly >depicted and of course, the recipe I posted was taken from Coriadoc's >"Collection of Medieval and Renaissance Cookbooks> "The Baghdad Cookery Book" >which translation clearly states watermelon. > >Lord Ras Watermelon is period, but you have to be a little careful about deducing what is period from translations, given problems both with the translators and with changing meaning of language. For example, "pumpkins" appear in old world cuisine--but they aren't the big orange Cucurbita pepo that we call "pumpkin." "Corn," of course, means maize to a modern American but grain to a period (or modern) Englishman. And I saw a translation of Ibn Battuta which referred to peppers, in context vegetable peppers, in North Africa in the 14th century. I don't know what Ibn Battuta actually mentioned, but it wasn't capsicum, which is New World. David/Cariadoc http://www.best.com/~ddfr/ From: Uduido at aol.com Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 21:00:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: SC - Watermelon << these mellons, however, do contain a great deal of moisture and are what the Bushmen survive on during the dry season. It is possible that the mellons seen in the illustrations and mentioned are these bitter mellons.>> No the illustrations clearly show a cart containing the big oblong striped watermelons. One of the paintings was French and one was German. <<Do the references sited above say anything about the mellons being sweet? That would be the best way to tell which are being refered to.>> Unfortunately, no. However, the bitter watermelon that you speak of is in all probabability the "citron" which is very bitter until it is candied or other wise processed. Another possibility is that the melon to which you refer is another species of plant . With the exception of citron, all known species of watermelon are relatively sweet. <<One more thing, I keep hearing about/reading about gourds. What are they? I had been taught that the winter squash we eat are also New World.>> The Luffa gourd (sponge) is an Old World plant and is extremely edible when it is very young (less than 6 inches). I have used (and continue to use) this gourd when when gourds are called for in a period recipe. Both winter and summer squashes are New World according to all the references I have read.. <<Linneah >> Hope this helps. Lord Ras From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com> Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 20:02:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: SC - Watermelon >My apologies to everyone on the list. I have just completed some more >investigation and the watermelon did, indeed, origionate in North Africa and >was brought to the Americas. I still wonder about whether it was sweet or >whether ours today is a descendant of the bitter melons I mentioned above. > >Linneah >who can sometimes be too quick to show her limited knowledge Ibn Battuta talks about delicious melons. It seems clear from that and other period Islamic references that there were a variety of different old world melons, many of which were not bitter. As to watermelon in particular, I can't say, but I see no reason to identify it with the bitter melon you mentioned. Modern Chinese cooking uses something called bitter melon, but I see no reason to assume it is the same as what you mentioned. David/Cariadoc http://www.best.com/~ddfr/ From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com> Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 00:15:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: SC - Watermelon At 10:32 AM -0600 5/3/97, S.Thomas wrote: > Your Grace; What about cantalope, etc? I have a couple of >illustrations (from "Tacuinum Sanitatis") that say the object being held >is "melon". It looks to be the size and shape of a cantalope, but >..... In service, Morgan morgan at in-tch.com I believe that muskmelon (which is what I believe cantelope is) is old world. David/Cariadoc http://www.best.com/~ddfr/ From: Luxueil <jlv at mail1.halcyon.com> Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 09:11:13 -0700 Subject: Re: SC - Watermelon At 02:59 PM 5/5/97 -0400, Mark Schuldenfrei wrote: > Cantalopes originated in southern Asia, India to be specific. Cantalopes are > period. The earliest reference to "Cantalope" that my OED gives is 1839. It could be that the very specific variety of melon called a Cantalope is not period. Ny Natural History book lists Cantalope and Musk Melon as Cucumis Melo. Presuming that musk melons and cantalopes are the same thing then Cantalopes are period as the OED does give period (1573 and later) usages of musk melon. Additionally the word "Melon" is defined as "A name common to several kinds of gourds, esp. the Musk Melon" Usage of this word dates to 1387. Jean Louis de Chambertin Barony of Madrone - An Tir Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 17:37:26 -0800 (PST) From: Huette von <ahrenshav at yahoo.com> Subject: Re: SC - Melons. - ---"Alderton, Philippa" <phlip at morganco.net> wrote: > Anybody know if there were any melons available in Italy, about 15th to 16th > centuries? If so, what sort? Am thinking there might have been some > available fron Spain. > > Phlip In "The Four Seasons of the House of Cerruti" which is a reprint of the "Tacuinum Sanitatis in Medicina" which is a 14th century Italian/Latin health manual, melons are depicted. Unfortunately, I don't have the book in front of me at the moment. (I am at work.) If you need more specifics, I will post them here on Monday. Huette Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 21:10:26 EST From: LrdRas at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - Melons. phlip at morganco.net writes: << Anybody know if there were any melons available in Italy, about 15th to 16th centuries? If so, what sort? Am thinking there might have been some available fron Spain. Phlip >> Both watermelons and musk melons are period. Ras Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 02:54:34 -0000 From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Nanna_R=F6gnvaldard=F3ttir?=" <nannar at isholf.is> Subject: Re: SC - Melons. >Anybody know if there were any melons available in Italy, about 15th to 16th >centuries? If so, what sort? Am thinking there might have been some >available fron Spain. As far as I know, melons were rather popular in Italy by the 15th century - they seem to have disappeared for some time but there is speculation they were brought back by the Crusaders. Platina has an entry on melons and suggests it should be eaten at the beginning of the meal, followed by a drink of good wine. Cantaloupes reached Italy from Armenina sometime in the 15th century and were first cultivated in the papal gardens at Cantalupo near Rome. Watermelons were also available; not sure about other types. Nanna Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 11:56:27 -0000 From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Nanna_R=F6gnvaldard=F3ttir?=" <nannar at isholf.is> Subject: Re: SC - Melons. From: Alderton, Philippa <phlip at morganco.net> >Where's the entry in Platina? I'm using him for my main source. Am I missing >something, are they called by another name? My source for this is Gastronomy of Italy, by Anna del Conte. She says: "Platina has a long entry in which he praises the tastiness of the fruit, but warns against it being "cold and damp" and therefore indigestible. For this reason he suggests that it should be eaten at the beginning of the meal and followed by a drink of good wine, this being "an antidote to its rawness and frigidity."" Pepone is an alternative Italian name for melon, directly from Latin pepon (ripe), also the source of English pumpkin. Nanna Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 19:03:59 -0000 From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Nanna_R=F6gnvaldard=F3ttir?=" <nannar at isholf.is> Subject: Re: SC - Melons. >Where's the entry in Platina? I'm using him for my main source. You might also check his Lives of the Popes - his comments on the demise of Pope Paul II, admittedly no friend of Platina. The popes official cause of death was listed as "a stroke" - brought on by "eating a surfeit of melons." Platina told quite another story, IIRC, involving the pointiffs sexual preferences. Nanna Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 23:49:29 -0800 From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com> Subject: Re: SC - Melons. At 5:37 PM -0800 2/26/99, Huette von wrote: >In "The Four Seasons of the House of Cerruti" which >is a reprint of the "Tacuinum Sanitatis in Medicina" >which is a 14th century Italian/Latin health manual, >melons are depicted. Unfortunately, I don't have >the book in front of me at the moment. (I am at >work.) If you need more specifics, I will post them >here on Monday. The fact that something is in Tacuinum Sanitatis doesn't necessarily mean it was available in 14th c. Italy, since the text is translated (I believe) from the Arabic original. Some of the illustrations are pretty clearly by artists who had never seen the originals. I would check in Platina; I'm almost certain you will find melons. David Friedman Professor of Law Santa Clara University Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 14:58:34 -0500 From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd at gate.net> Subject: Re: SC - Melons. Regarding the book referenced [previously] I just happened to have it handy. It is "The Four Seasons of the House of Cerruti" Translated by Judith Spencer, complete revised translation, Facts on File Publications NY, NY, /Bicester, England copyright 1983 by Arnoldo Mondadori Editore S.p.A. English translation 1984 Arnoldo Mondadori Editore S.p.A. ISBN 0-8160-0138-3 This is a facsimile edition and translation of the 14th century Latin manuscript known as the Tacuinum Sanitatis in Medicina. Pages 34 and 35 depict three types of melons listed in the captions as melon, watermelon and Watermelons from the east. The first, Melones dulces, from the illustration and the test appears to be the elongated ovidal alternating dark and light green stripped melons with red centers that are one of the two related types of melons sold as water melons in the States. The second, Melones issipidi, appears to the second type of melon sold in the States as water melons commonly referred to as cannon balls when I was a child. From the illustration they are round or roundish and about twice the size of a mans head. None were cut open in the illustration and the text does not indicate the color of the flesh inside. In the illustration they are dark green with perhaps a hint of thin stripping. The text repeats the test for ripeness I heard as a child, "Always choose really ripe watermelons, which are recognizable by the sound obtained by tapping the outside. The third, Molones indi et palestini are slightly smaller in the illustration than the second and are descriped in the text as being large, sweet. and yellow. The text suggests choosing large, very sweet watery ones. From the illustration they look a lot like cantalopes and it shows someone sniffing one. Incidentally it also shows something which they call pumpkins which are elongated green squashes which have the shape of streached and slightly bent pears but from the illustration are about the length of a man's arm. They call it a Cucurbite. It also shows dark purple aubergines (egeplant) which they call Melongiana. Daniel Raoul le Vascon du Navarre' Shire of Sea March, Kingdom of Trimaris Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 17:13:50 -0500 From: Ian Gourdon <agincort at raex.com> Subject: SC - Re: Melons 14th Cen I did a little melon research for an event lunch a while back... Melon is one of the dishes served in 1443 at the feast given by John Stafford at his installation as Archbishop of Canterbury. page 166 in A Feast of Fruits by Elizabeth Riely NY: MacMillan 1993 "...shows themelon's Near Eastern origin... Via Arabs and Moors the fruit found its way to Spain... ; There are countless varieties of melon, Cucumis melo, ... ; These members of the squash, or gourd, family cross pollinate so promiscuously that farmers know they must plant them well separated from each other... ; the musk melon ... includes what the Americans call the cantaloupe...; The Persian melon is another larger musk melon...; The skin can be ridged in segments, but always has the characteristic raised netted pattern on the skin." page 49 in Food in History by Reay Tannahill NY: Stein & Day 1973 "The (early) people of the Indus valley ate wheat and barley ... and seasoned it with mustard, or possibly turmeric, or ginger...; Melons and dates, and perhaps lemons and limes all figured in the diet." from Plants of the Bible by Harold N. Moldenke Waltham, Mass. Chronica Botanica Company 1952 " Numbers 11:5 - We remember the fish, which we did eat in Egypt freely; the cucumbers, and the melons, and the leeks, and the onions, and the garlick." page 188 in Medieval Culture and Society edited by David Herlihy NY: Harper and Row 1968 ( RE:Florence in 1336-38): " We have discovered by the tax at the gates that every year Florence imported upwards of 55,000 cogna of wine...; The city required every year about 400 cows and calves; 60,000 muttons and sheep; 20,000 she-goats and he-goats; and 30,000 pigs. In the month of July through the gate of San Frediano there entered 4000 loads of melons, which were all distributed in the city." - -- Ian Gourdon of Glen Awe - - Companion of the order of the Greenwood Company Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 13:40:11 -0000 From: Christina Nevin <cnevin at caci.co.uk> Subject: SC - Melons, thrushes and periodised lamb A small addition to Ian Gourdon's list of melon references - Piero Aretino (the famous Venetian poet and infamous gossip) in a letter of 3rd June 1537 thanking Mssr Francesco Marcolini for gifts of salads and fruits says; "I can risk a wager against anyone wanting to claim that I was not the first to see this year's figs, grown in your delightful garden. And I shall also be the first to taste the pears, the apricots, the melons, the plums, the grapes and the peaches." Aretino obviously loved his food and dots wonderful little descriptions throughout his letters. They're worth browsing for that alone almost (they're also very witty). My favorite however must be his description of eating a gift of thrushes; "They were such that our Mssr Titian <yes, the painter> when he saw them on the spit and sniffed them with his nose, glanced at the snow which was falling relentlessly outside while the table was being set, and decided there and then to disappoint a party of gentlemen who had asked him to dinner. And altogether we heaped praises upon the long-beaked birds which, boiled with a little dried meat, a couple of bay leaves and a good sprinkling of pepper, we ate for the love of you, but also because they delighted us..." Lucretzia Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 12:15:48 -0800 From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com> Subject: Re: SC - Melons. Phlip asks: >Where's the entry in Platina? I'm using him for my main source. It is in Platina's Book 1, in the old translation (Falconwood Press edition) on page 16. It is headed "Longmelons" and mostly concern the medical qualities of melons and what the ancients had to say about them. Elizabeth/Betty Cook Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 16:31:07 -0500 From: Jenn/Yana <jdmiller2 at students.wisc.edu> Subject: Re: SC - pickled melon documentation Jadwiga wrote: >The pickled Melon _recipe_ in the Domostroi may be postperiod (I don't >have my copy with me, but Yana will know) but mentioned of pickled melon >and other fruit are in the period portion of the Domostroi. Yep, it is in the "questionable" part of the Domostroi (the Long Version that has parts that probably come from outside our period). The melons in question were likely imported from Azerbaijan or another South Central Asian country. For those who are wondering: (Pouncy:199-200) Watermelons. Strain watermelon puree through a fine sieve. Let it ripen in an alkaline solution. When it is ripe, do not cook it, but let it purify itself. Take a watermelon and cut it into layers. Take out the seeds. Cut about two fingers width from the skin, leaving a little of the green flesh. Peel off strips a little thicker than paper. Put the strips in the juice and let them sit, changing the juice halfway through. Add honey and cook the mixture over a slow flame. Skim off any foam that appears. When the mixture is clear and no more foam appears, the syrup is ready. To the hot mixture, add spices--pepper, ginger, cloves, cinnamon, mace, or nutmeg--and simmer it. Put the syrup in a bowl so it will not burn. When it is ready, put watermelon in a lime solution, then cool it will not burn. When it is ready, put watermelon pieces in the syrup. Other people say you should cook the watermelon in a lime solution, then cool it before adding it to honey cooked with spices. Melons. Peel melons thinly. Cut the body of the melon in half, then place it in an alkaline solution for a day and a night. Put the pieces in a spiced syrup like the one used for watermelons and let them sit. Stir the pieces, turning them over, from time to time. Others say that you should leave the melons in the syrup for a while, then pour it off and replace it, leaving it there for a week altogether. When the syrup has evaporated, add honey with spices--pepper, ginger, and cloves. - --Yana Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 08:22:44 EST From: Llewmike at aol.com Subject: Re: SC - Watermelon Castelvetro's Fruits' Herbs and Vegetables of Italy also references the watermelon. Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 16:40:55 From: "Vincent Cuenca" <bootkiller at hotmail.com> Subject: SC - Torta de melones orta de melones Tomase el melon limpio de la corteza y de la semilla, y que no este muy maduro, y cortese a bocadillos, y haganse freyr poco a poco con manteca mezclandolo con la cuchara de contino, saquese y dexese enfriar, y passese por el colador, y a cada dos libros de melon frito an~adansele seys onzas de queso de Tronchon or Parmesano y seys onzas de requeson, or queso fresco bien majado, seys onzas de queso de Pinto mantecoso una onza de canela, media onza de pimienta, seys onzas de azucar, diez hiemas de hueuos frescos, o a lo menos seys con las claras, y tengasa la cazuela tortera vntada con manteca, con vn ojaldre de pasta algo gordo hecho de la flor de la harina, agua rosada, hiemas de hueuos, manteca de vacas, y sal, y su tortillon ojaldrado alrededor, y pongase dentro la composicion, y hagase cozer en el horno con manteca derretida por encima, y en estando casi cozida hagase la corteza de azucar, y canela, y en estando cozida siruase caliente. Desta manera se puede hazer de los duraznos y aluaricoques, y ciruelas mal maduras. Melon Torte Take melon cleaned of the rind and the seeds, and which should not be very ripe, and cut it into bite-size pieces, and fry them bit by bit with lard mixing them with a slotted spoon (?), take them out and let them cool, and pass them through a strainer, and to each two pounds of fried melon add six ounces of Tronchon or Parmesan cheese amd six ounces of curds, or well mashed fresh cheese, six ounces of fatty Pinto cheese one ounce of cinnamon, half an ounce of pepper, six ounces of sugar, ten fresh egg yolks, or at least six with the whites, and have the torte pan greased with lard, with a leaf of somewhat thick dough made with the best flour, rose water, egg yolks, cow's lard, and salt, and its layered crust all around (?), and put the mixture in, and let it cook in the oven with melted lard over it, and when it is almost cooked make the crust with sugar, and cinnamon,* and when it is cooked serve it hot. In this way you can make it with peaches and apricots, and poorly ripened plums. *This is similar to de Nola's recipe for Torta Genovesa, which instructs the cook to sprinkle cinnamon and sugar over the torte as it is baking to form a crisp layer. Mind you, this is a quick and dirty translation. I'm totally faking "cuchara de contino"; could also be "stir continuously with a spoon". Sounds yummy, though. Maybe I'll try this for Queen's Prize next year! :) Vicente Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 17:07:22 -0500 From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Watermelon To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org> It was probably called melon (Middle English derived from Latin derived from Greek), a term that covers both Cucumis melo and Citrullus vulgaris (or C. lanatus, if you choose). The Cucurbitaceae are more precisely fruit bearing vines rather than vegetables, although the English word "vegetable" does not make a clear distinction between the two. Cucumbers being from genus Cucumis are more closely related to the other melons. Pumpkins and squash are in genus Cucrbita. Other related plants are gourds (Lagenaria) and loofahs (Luffa). Bear > This showed up in my mailbox today and thought it might be of interest. > The last fact makes me wonder what the English called the watermelon > prior to 1615. Does anyone know? > > Tara > > Fun Facts about Watermelon <clipped> Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2007 14:31:25 -0400 From: Gretchen Beck <grm at andrew.cmu.edu> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Newbie Question about Watermelon To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org> --On Thursday, August 02, 2007 12:57 PM -0500 Liz Wilson <ewilson618 at tx.rr.com> wrote: > I am new to the SCA and read a great but fairly general article for > beginners that broke fruits and vegetables down into New World and Old > World foods, but I didn't see watermelon on the list. The article > indicated that cantalope (musk melons) and honeydew were Old World. This > article was from the SCA websites. Does anyone know the status and/or > history of watermelon, or how it would have been served? I am assuming > that it was seasonable and was probably limited to warmer climates. > > Cristiana Hi Cristiana, Britannica Online says : (Citrullus lanatus, formerly C. vulgaris), succulent fruit of the gourd family (Cucurbitaceae), native to tropical Africa, but under cultivation on every continent except Antarctica. The OED lists the term "water million" (water-melon) in 1615, and gives the French term as melon d'eau. The Domostroi translation contains a recipe for watermelon rind pickles, so, assuming the word is translated correctly (given the rest of the recipe, I suspect it is) this puts watermelons in Russia in that late 16th or early 17th C. I think, but am not sure, that Castelvetro mentions watermelon in 1614 as a fruit eaten in Italy, but my copy is at home and I can't check it until later. toodles, margaret Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 16:09:11 -0400 From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd at gate.net> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Newbie Question about Watermelon To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org> The Four Seasons of The House of Cerruti ISBN0-8160-0138-3 is a facsimile edition and translation of the 14th century Latin manuscript "Tacuinum Sanitatis in Medicina". It shows three color plates of what are labeled melons and watermelons. The first is a classic water melon shaped, i.e. a very oblate spheroid, smooth skinned green and whitish striped melon. They are referred to as melones dulces. In the picture they are about the length of a man's leg from foot knee. Eat them with mature cheese and salty foods and drink a fine wine. The second are spherical smooth skinned dark green melons. They are referred to as melones insipidi. Pick a good one by the sound obtained by tapping on the outside. In Tuscany they are called cocomero. They are show perhaps a third larger than a man's head. The third are spherical yellowish melons. They are referred to as melones indi et palestini. They are show perhaps a third larger than a man's head as well. A man is show sniffing one. They do not look quite like a modern cantaloupe as the skin appears to be smooth. Tis hard to tell however. All three are shown with largish pale yellow flowers and large round fan shaped leaves. Daniel Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 17:52:40 -0500 From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Newbie Question about Watermelon To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org> Watermelon is of African origin. It was being cultivated in Egypt around 2000 BCE. There is some disagreement about whether or not it was well known to the ancient Romans, but it certainly became available in Europe after the Arab expansion. Bear <the end> Edited by Mark S. Harris fruit-melons-msg Page 12 of 12