fruit-apples-msg - 9/8/02

 

Period apples and apple recipes.

 

NOTE: See also these files: fruit-msg, fruit-citrus-msg, fruit-melons-msg,

fruit-pears-msg, fruit-quinces-msg, vegetables-msg, desserts-msg.

 

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NOTICE -

 

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I  have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

 

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

 

I  have done  a limited amount  of  editing. Messages having to do  with separate topics  were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the  message IDs  were removed to save space and remove clutter.

 

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make  no claims  as  to the accuracy  of  the information  given by the individual authors.

 

Please  respect the time  and  efforts of  those who have written  these messages. The  copyright status  of these messages  is  unclear at this time. If  information  is  published  from  these  messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

 

Thank you,

    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous

                                          Stefan at florilegium.org

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From: storm at hlafdig.stonemarche.ORG (Arastorm the Golden)

Date: 23 Oct 91 16:01:04 GMT

 

        We planted a "period apple tree" several years ago in a flush

of agrarian authenticity. It is producing now. In my opinion the

Gilliflour (which can be traced back to 1600, and was brought to

this country by T. Jefferson) is no where near as good as...

         We live in apple country. A local farm grows 52 variety of

apples and I have tasted more than half of them. My favorite apples

(depending on use) include Cortlands, Northern Spys, McCoons,

Granny Smiths and Red Delicious. It does not include Gillyflours.

The flavor is mild, too sweet, and the pulp is mushy.

        Sometimes paintings show period fruits. Oranges used to be

half white membrane. According to National Geographic, beets were

solely a leaf crop until the last century. Carrots were also small

enough so that we should really not serve anything but "baby carrots"

at events.

        Remember, the reason that venison was prized was because the

herds were protected, and beef cattle were worked. Food ain't what it once

was, and for this we should be intensley grateful for the hard work

and dilligence of our ancestors.

        By the Way- has anyone got a source for the appropriate pine bark

to grind up and put in one's pease bread?   Arastorm

 

 

From: David.Calafrancesco at drakkar.mhv.net (David Calafrancesco)

Date: 22 Apr 97 23:30:58 -0500

 

      Title: Appulmoy

Categories: 14th cent., Fruit

      Yield: 50 servings

     30 c  Apples                          1 1/2 c  Flour, rice

     24 c  Water                           1 1/2 c  Honey

      4 c  Almond milk                         3 ts Salt

     18 ea Saffron, threads              

 

- --------------------------------POWDER FORT--------------------------------

    3/4 ts Pepper                              3 ts Cinnamon

      3 ts Ginger                              3 ts Cloves

    "Curye on Inglysch," edited by Constance B. Hieatt and Sharon Butler.

     Oxford University Press, 1985. pg.116 #81, from "Forme of Cury."

  

    Appulmoy. Take apples and seep hem in water; drawe hem thurgh a

  straynour. Take almaunde mylke and hony and flour of rys, safroun and

  powdour fort and salt, seep it stondyng.

  

    Redaction by Oksana Goncharova:

  

    Appulmoy. Take apples and boil them in water; draw them through a

  strainer. Take almond milk and honey and flour of rice, saffron and powder

  fort and salt, and boil it standing.

  

    Redaction instructions:

  

    Peel and chop apples. Cook the apples in water until tender. Drain the

  excess water. Add almond milk ( to make almond milk ; take blanched

  almonds and chop them up in a mini chopper or food processor. Take the

  chopped almonds and put them in a blender, using liquify,

   and mix water in a little at a time. I use a ratio of about 1/8 th cup of

  almond to about 1 cup of water.) Add crushed saffron (take some of the

  almond milk and crush the threads of saffron in a morter and pestle, with

  the milk.) Add rice flour, honey, salt and powder fort. Simmer over low

  heat, stirring frequently, until mixture has thickened.

    This recipe can be made more spicy by adding more of the powder fort, if

  you like, my husband enjoys that, I have weaker tongue tolerance.

    This recipe takes about 15 min. to make a 3 cup batch (8) servings.

- -----

Haraldr Bassi, Frosted Hills, East

haraldr at drakkar.mhv.net

 

Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 11:39:13 -0400 (EDT)

From: LrdRas at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - apples

 

<< Anyone have any period apple treats that I can make up for the fighters

>to take to "Not Necessarily Pointless War" this weekend?  >>

 

How about Apple Moyle? It is basically a type of rice pudding with apples in

it. The recipe is in "Two Fifteenth Century Cookery Books".

 

Ras

 

 

Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 01:37:16 -0400

From: marilyn traber <margali at 99main.com>

Subject: Re: SC - apples

 

LrdRas at aol.com wrote:

> << or, depending on ingredient proportion and emphasis, applesauce

>  thickened with rice flour, and sometimes eggs. >>

>

> This is in fact the version I use. Basically it's a baked custard with

> lots of apple sauce

>

> Ras

 

Take a large can of pears in syrup, drain and reserve the heavy syrup.

Give the pears a whirl in a blender, adding just enough juice to make it

pearsauce. Use in place of the pumpkin in a pie recipe. Pour a puddle of

whole cream on the surface when it is about half done.

 

margali

 

 

Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 16:07:06 -0400 (EDT)

From: Philip E Cutone <flip+ at andrew.cmu.edu>

Subject: Re: SC - Honey Apples

 

Steve Geppert <emster at alaska.net> writes:

> Looking for something to do with a bag of "older" apples I had on the

...

> I couldn't seem to find anything similar. Is this something that could

> be period?  It would be a great traveling dish as it can be served

 

Well, The Domestroi has a listing for "Kirzamin apples" (not sure of

the first word) which was simply apples (whole) put in a container with

honey on them until the apples became soft (i think... i'm going from

memory here) There were almost certainly some acetic fermentaion that

went on inside the apples before th osmatic pressure of the honey made

a preserved fruit.... so we have apples, honey, and most likely

vineger... but no cooking...  There were several other recipies for

cooking fruit with the addition of honey... i'll try to remember and

look to see if vinegar was used in any of them..

 

In Service to the People of the Society,

Filip of the Marche

 

 

Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 18:49:46 EST

From: melc2newton at juno.com (Michael P Newton)

Subject: Re: SC - Honey Apples

 

On Wed, 22 Oct 1997 10:00:44 -0800 Steve Geppert <emster at alaska.net> writes:

>Looking for something to do with a bag of "older" apples I had on the

>counter, I stumbled on a Honey Apple recipe in my Joy of Cooking.  The

>recipe is simply honey, vinegar brought to a boil. The apples are pared

>and thinly sliced and dropped into the mixture and removed when

>transparent.  As my medieval cooking library is in its birthing stages,

>I couldn't seem to find anything similar. Is this something that could

>be period?  It would be a great traveling dish as it can be served

>chilled or hot.  It was also a hit with my children, none left on the

>table after dinner!

>

>Lady Clare

>(settling in for the long Alaskan winter, snow on the ground already!)

 

I know I'm answering an old message, but I was clearing out my inbox and

this reminded me of a couple of recipes I came across in _The Domostroi_.

 

Kuzmin apples. Take whole apples, not bruised, nor wormeated. Place them

on racks, one layer per rack. Pile the racks on top of one another, then

pour three measures of honey syrup over all.

 

Ripe Apples and quinces. Put ripe apples and quinces which are clean and

unbruised in crates inside small buckets, five quinces per apple. arrange

them with your hands. Pour four measures of honey syrup over them. When

you cover the bucket, leave space for a funnel so that air can escape as

the mixture ferments.

 

I have no idea if this is anywhere close to what Lady Clare was looking

for, but there it is.

Lady Beatrix of Tanet

 

 

Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 11:15:16 -0800

From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Grape juice inquiry

 

>Now, would somebody give me a comercial source for apples that are a period

>type, grown without pesticides or commercial fertilizer.

 

There is a firm called AppleSource--I don't know if they are on the web

yet. They sell a wide variety of apples, including, I am fairly sure, some

of the period ones, by mail.

 

Alternatively you can get trees from quite a lot of nurseries--you will

find an article on that subject in the _Miscellany_. My problem is that I

keep moving, and leaving my trees behind. Hopefully, since things grow fast

here, I will at least get to enjoy the greengage plum I planted when we

moved.

 

David/Cariadoc

 

 

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 11:04:12 EST

From: LrdRas <LrdRas at aol.com>

Subject: SC - Apples

 

liontamr at ptd.net writes:

 

<< Small, round, red and hard (not to mention hardy).  Less sweet (see large

amounts of sugar added to them for preservation). As for substitutes, I'd go

for the bags of cooking macs, ida reds or some such, which are smaller, have

better flavor than the enormous ones, and more closely mimic a period sized

apple.  >>

 

Pippins are the fruit grown from an apple tree grown from an apple seed as

opposed to those grown from sports or other grafted stock. They are, indeed,

smaller and less sweet than most currently available commercial so-called

apples.

 

I would suggest adding to your list of varieties that might be tried

Northern Spyes or, if possible, crab apples specifically grown for juice if you want to come closest to a period-like flavor.  Almost all commercial varieties of apple have been bred to make the taste less complex, less acidic, sweeter

and unobjectionable to the majority of people, thereby producing insipid,

flavorless ghosts of good tasting apples.  And there are varieties of apples

still grown now that were grown during the middle ages. These would of course

be the best to use and though not generally found for sale commercially are

readily available as saplings from some specialty plant growers.

 

If buying commercially, most reputable supermarkets will allow you to taste

test your apple before buying it.  Look for a balance between acid and sweet,

tangy, pineapple, strawberry, clove taste with a complex variety of flavors

underneath, crispness, refreshing and lingering finish.

 

If you have a piece of land and web access, a search engine of apple should

get you started in your search for period apple trees. :-)

 

Ras

 

 

Date: 16 Jan 1998 08:35:01 -0800

From: "Marisa Herzog" <marisa_herzog at macmail.ucsc.edu>

Subject: Re: SC - Fruits

 

<snip>- I read or was told by someone (wish I could remember) that Pippins

referred to a specific type of apple which is no longer available. Anyone

know if this is true? If so, what is the best <snip>

 

I am not sure about the rest, but Pippins are still sometimes available in the

grocery store, tho they seem to be being pushed out by Fujis and Braeburns

that are bigger.

- -brid

 

 

Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 20:15:04 -0500

From: Margritte <margritt at mindspring.com>

Subject: SC - A Paste of Pippins

 

Consider the following two recipes:

 

To make Paste of Pippins, the Geneva fashion, some with leaves, some like

Plums, with stalks and stones in them.

Take your Pippins, and pare them and cut them in quarters: then boil them

in faire water till they be tender; then straine them and dry the pulp upon

a chafindish of coales: then weigh it, and take as much sugar as it

weigheth, and boile it to Manus Christi, and put them together: then

fashion them upon a Pieplate and put it into an Oven being very sleightly

heat: the next Morning you may turne it, and put them off the plates upon

sheets of Paper upon a hurdle, and so put them in an Oven of like heat, and

there let them remain foure or five dayes, puting every day a Chafindish of

coales into the Oven: and when they be thorow dry you may box them, and

keepe them all the yeare.

A Closet for Ladies and Gentlewomen or The Art of preserving, conserving

and candying, printed for Arthur Johnson, 1608.

 

To make Paste of Pippins like leaves, and some like Plums, with their

stones, and Stalks in them.

Take Pippins pared and cored, and cut in pieces, and boiled tender, so

strain them, and take as much Sugar as the Pulp doth weigh, and boil it to

a Candy height with as much Rose-water and fair water as will melt it, then

put the pulp into the hot sugar, and let it boil until it be as thick as

Marmalet, then fashion it on a Pyeplate, like Oaken leaves, and some like

half Plums, the next day close the half Plums together; and if you please

you may put the stones and stalks in them, and dry them in an Oven, and if

you will have them look green, make the paste with Pippins are green, and

if you would have them look red, put a little Conserves of Barberries in

the Paste, and if you will keep any of it all the year, you must make it as

thin as Tart stuff, and put it into Gallipots.

 

A Queen's Delight or The Art of Preserving, Conserving and Candying,

printed for Nathaniel Brook, 1654. Both of these books are available on

microfilm, in the "English Books: 1641-1700" series.

 

OK, here come the questions  :-)

 

- - Do I use cheesecloth to strain the apples?

- - Should they fall apart (applesauce consistency)?

- - The first recipe calls for drying the pulp before weighing it. How dry

should it be? Surely not completely...

- - I could understand if it was oak leaves and acorns, but _plums_!?? Why

plums?

- - When the half plums are put together, are you using real stalks and

stones from plums, or ones made of marzipan, or what?

- - Just how thin is tart stuff?

- - What were gallipots usually made of?

- - Has anyone seen recipes elsewhere for similar confections (especially

ones mentioning oak leaves)?

 

Thanks for any help you can give.

 

- -Margritte

 

 

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 17:48:51 -0800

From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Fruits

 

At 8:35 AM -0800 1/16/98, Marisa Herzog wrote:

 

>I am not sure about the rest, but Pippins are still sometimes available in the

>grocery store, tho they seem to be being pushed out by Fujis and Braeburns

>that are bigger.

>-brid

 

There are several varieties known as "pippen": Cox's Orange Pippen is a

famous variety from (I think) the 18th century.  Newtown Pippen is a

variety they sell around here, sometimes under its full name and sometimes

just as Pippen.  It is a hard medium-sized green apple, a little tart, good

both for pies and for eating out of hand.  How close it is to a period

pippen I don't know.

 

Southmeadow Fruit Gardens, 2363 Tilbury Place, Birmingham, Michigan 48009,

as of several years ago, had an enormous collection of old fruit varieties,

with a catalogue which cost $5 or $10 and was very much worth it as

information about old varieties.

 

Elizabeth/Betty Cook

 

 

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 16:02:24 -0800

From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>

Subject: Re: SC - A Paste of Pippins

 

Margritte quoted a couple of recipes for Paste of Pippens:

>To make Paste of Pippins like leaves, and some like Plums, with their

>stones, and Stalks in them.

>Take Pippins pared and cored, and cut in pieces, and boiled tender, so

>strain them, and take as much Sugar as the Pulp doth weigh, and boil it to

>a Candy height with as much Rose-water and fair water as will melt it, then

>put the pulp into the hot sugar, and let it boil until it be as thick as

>Marmalet, ...

 

I am fairly sure that marmelade (which, I believe, comes from a Portugese

word meaning quince) meant at this time not the citrus jam we now use the

word for but instead meant quince paste.  My sister Johanna used to make

quince paste out of a modern recipe in a book by (I think) Elizabeth David;

it came out as a stiff brown paste of a similar consistancy to fudge or to

medieval gingerbread, if you have made that. I think there is a recipe for

marmelade or quince paste in Hugh Platt's _Delights for Ladies_ (160?) that

would give you another recipe to compare, quinces being closely related to

apples; I can hunt up the recipe and type it in if you would like.

 

Elizabeth of Dendermonde/Betty Cook

 

 

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 07:53:22 -0600 (CST)

From: alysk at ix.netcom.com (Elise Fleming)

Subject: SC - Re: A Paste of Pippins

 

Greetings.  One line of Elizabeth's post drew my attention:

 

>I am fairly sure that marmelade (which, I believe, comes from a

>Portugese word meaning quince) meant at this time not the citrus jam

>we now use the word for but instead meant quince paste.

 

I went hunting through a few cookery books and found that, indeed, most

of the pre-1600 ones, when titled "marmelat" or some spelling variant,

used only quinces.  What was bothering me was that only yesterday I had

run across a number of marmelades made with fruit _other_ than quinces,

though those were in the late 1600s.  So, somewhere along the way, the

main ingredient changed.  I did find, however, in Thomas Dawson's 1597

_The Second Part of the Good Hus-wives Jewell_, "To make drie Marmelet

of Peches".  So, the transformation from quince-only to other fruit was

apparantly already underway.  From the recipe, however, this is a

fruit-leathery-paste type of thing that can be "printed" with a mould,

not the gloppy consistency of marmalade that we are used to.

 

Alys Katharine

 

 

Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 11:09:21 -0400 (EDT)

From: Jeff Berry <nexus at panix.com>

Subject: SC - Between two dishes ...

 

A short while ago I did a small feast here in Whyt Whey

and one of the recipes I used was "To Stew Apples" from

Digbie.  Though the recipe was pretty straightforward, the

penultimate line was less so.

"You stew these between two dishes."

 

I am not quite certain what to make of this.   On the one hand,

might it be a bain-Marie or double boiler?  On the other, could

it be simply a covered pot?

 

At any rate, the whole recipe is included below.

 

TO STEW APPLES

"Pare them and cut them into slices. Stew them with Wine and Water

as the Pears, and season them in like manner with Spice. Towards the

end sweeten them with Sugar, breaking them into Pap by stirring them.  When

you are ready to take them off, put in good store of fresh-butter and

incorporate it well with them, by stirring them together. You stew

these between two dishes.  The quickest Apples are the best."

 

Alexandre Lerot d'Avigne

 

PS. For those who are interested, the entire menu as well as the article

series related to it are on my cooking site at

http://www.panix.com/~nexus/cooking - and yes, that is a more or less

blatant plug:-)

 

 

Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 20:29:48 -0500

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Between two dishes ...

 

> a short while ago I did a small feast here in Whyt Whey

> and one of the recipes I used was "To Stew Apples" from

> Digbie.  Though the recipe was pretty straightforward, the

> penultimate line was less so.

> "You stew these between two dishes."

>

> I am not quite certain what to make of this.   On the one hand,

> might it be a bain-Marie or double boiler?  On the other, could

> it be simply a covered pot?

 

That sounds like a reference to a chawfer or chafing dish, which is

essentially a small brazier of charcoal, in which sits a roughly

similarly-sized inner cooking plate, which can be used covered or

uncovered. Cooking between two dishes would most likely be using this

type of setup.

 

Adamantius

 

> Alexandre Lerot d'Avigne

 

 

Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 22:27:59 -0700

From: "Anne-Marie Rousseau" <acrouss at gte.net>

Subject: Re: SC - Between two dishes ...

 

I would interpret this to mean a covered dish, as a bain marie is not

between two dishes, but on top of two dishes :). The results would be very

different, as the former would conserve moisture and the later would not.

 

good luck!

- --Anne-Marie

 

 

Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 22:51:05 -0500

From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>

Subject: RE: SC - Apple Butter Update

 

> Can anyone out there spare me the time to tell me anything about the

> history of Apple Butter?

>

> Micaylah

 

There is a recipe for Appulmoy in The Forme of Cury, which I have seen

adapted as applesauce.  It uses honey as sweetener rather than the sugar

called for in modern recipes.

 

Since the chief difference between modern applesauce and modern apple butter

is the amount of sugar used, being heavy handed with the honey might get you

apple butter.

 

I haven't tried either recipe, so I can't tell you what will happen.

 

Bear

 

 

Date: Tue, 16 Jun 98 07:49:38 -0600

From: upsxdls at okway.okstate.edu

Subject: Re[2]: SC - Apple Butter Question

 

     My recipe for any fruit butter - apple, pear, peach, apricot, etc.

 

     Apple (I use Red Delicious or Winesap, they mush easier) Butter,

     Peel and core apples.  Place in a heavy pan with just enough water to cover

     the bottom of the pan.  Cover and simmer until fruit softens.  Mash with

     potato masher.  Measure mashed fruit.  Add an equal amount of sugar.  Cook

     over low heat, stirring occasionally.  If I want to add spices, I usually

     use whole cinnamon sticks and cloves wrapped in a cheesecloth bag.  If you

     use ground spices, it will turn the mixture dark.

 

     Pear is done the same way, but ginger is the usual spice.  Peaches &

     apricots do not have to be peeled, but should be run through a food mill to

     remove the skins before measuring.  I don't add spices to the peach or

     apricot butters.  They're too wonderful all by themselves!

 

     Leanna McLaren of Sparrowhaven

 

 

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 02:17:18 EDT

From: Kallyr at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - cider apples

 

Golden Russet is a period cider apple which is still grown and highly

regarded.  Another is Ashmead's Kernel (also russeted) which was introduced in

the 1700's as a cider apple.  (Russets are brownish gold rough spots on the

skin of apples.)